Maybe the Election Results Were Kinda Good for Libertarians?

Also, maybe not! Previewing divided government and incoming vaccines on the Reason Roundtable podcast.

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Maybe the Election Results Were Kinda Good for Libertarians?

Which weekend op-ed headline team are you on? "Libertarians Spoil the Election: Jo Jorgensen exceeds Biden's margin in Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona and Georgia," by Walter Block? Or "One Group Is Unreservedly Happy About the Election Results: Libertarians are pleased to have likely dodged the bullet of one-party government control," by Liz Mair? (As you know, there can only be two choices in American politics…)

The Reason Roundtable podcast, featuring as it does four small-l libertarians (Nick Gillespie, Peter Suderman, Matt Welch, and Katherine Mangu-Ward), has a range of views on the subject. On today's episode we discuss the promise and pitfalls of divided government, the worrying and soon-to-be-goosed trend toward pen-and-phone governance, the glass-half-full vs. glass-should-be-thrown-against-the wall interpretation of the Libertarian Party's Tuesday, and also the marvelous late-breaking news that a COVID-19 vaccine appears to be incoming.

Audio production by Ian Keyser and Regan Taylor.

Music: "CGI Snake" by Chris Zabriskie.

Relevant links from the show:

"Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine Is 90% Effective," by Ronald Bailey

"Joe Biden's Presidency Is Coming. It Will Be Bad In Predictable Ways," by Elizabeth Nolan Brown

"According to Trump, Nearly Everyone Is Conspiring To Deny Him His Rightful Victory," by Jacob Sullum

"Joe Biden Declared Winner of Presidential Race," by Billy Binion

"Feeling Good About the Future After an Ugly Election," by Nick Gillespie

"Georgia Will Determine the Nation's Political Fate," by Billy Binion

"Joe Biden's Endless River of Debt and Regulation," by Nick Gillespie

"The 2020 Election Results Look Like a Massive Rebuke of Socialism," by Robby Soave

"Twitter's Flagging of Trump's Post-Election Tweets Is Haphazard, Irrational, and Ineffectual," by Jacob Sullum

"Democrats' Crumbling Hopes of a Blue Wave Make Divided Government More Likely," by Billy Binion

"Brian Riedl: Donald Trump, Joe Biden, and $6 Trillion Budgets," by Nick Gillespie

"America's Disastrous Drug War Is Finally Unravelling," by Regan Taylor

"Yesterday's Clean Sweep for Drug Policy Reform Suggests That Prohibition May Collapse Sooner Than Expected," by Jacob Sullum

"On Election Night, the Real Winner Was Drugs," by Elizabeth Nolan Brown

"What's Next for the Libertarian Party After Jo Jorgensen Got 1%?" by Zach Weissmueller

"Where Do Libertarians Go From Here?" by Steven Greenhut

"Meet Marshall Burt, Who's About To Become the Libertarian Party's Only Sitting State Legislator," by Brian Doherty

"Think Jo Jorgensen Is a Spoiler? Run These Numbers First," by Matt Welch

"You Are Not Entitled to Libertarian Votes," by Elizabeth Nolan Brown

"Jo Jorgensen Heading Toward Second-Best Result in Libertarian Party History," by Matt Welch

"Maybe Jo Jorgensen Finishing With 1% Would Actually Be Pretty Good?" by Matt Welch

"Who Should Libertarians Vote For in 2020? A Soho Forum Debate," by John Osterhoudt

"What Is the Ideal Strategy for the Libertarian Party? A Soho Forum Debate," by John Osterhoudt

"Video: Nick Gillespie and Walter Block Debate Whether Libertarians Should Vote for Trump," by Nick Gillespie

What are we consuming this week?

Matt Welch

• Making Waves: The Art of Cinematic Sound

Katherine Mangu-Ward

• Upload

Peter Suderman

• Wasteland 3

Nick Gillespie

• What Killed Michael Brown?

---

Comments

[NashTiger]

GFYs

[JesseAz]

^^

[Chipper Morning Wood--------------------------------------------------------------------------]

I am running out of storage for all this salt. But by all means, keep the tears flowing. As Todd Alquist would say, "No matter how much you got, how do you turn your back on more?"

[HamSandwich]

as sweet as the lib tears were when the clinton dynasty came to an end, its equally sweet to taste the tears of a bunch of angry repubs, trump cult followers, who are filling barrel after barrel with sad sad salty tears.

keep it flowing, you fucking baby losers

[IceTrey]

The same way Trump gave away his presidential salary?

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

And then took it back by charging taxpayers $3 when he wanted a glass of water?

Grifters rely on gullible losers. The Republican Party supplies those superstitious slack-jaws.

[Sevo]

"And then took it back by charging taxpayers $3 when he wanted a glass of water?"

Why do lefty shits keep repeating lies? Do they hope the rest of us are as stupid as they are?

[IceTrey]

Uh the POTUS pays for their food.

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[Sometimes Bad Is Bad]

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[R Mac]

Good for libertarians? No. Good for Reason? Guess so.

[lap83]

Libertarians unsure whether Biden presidency will benefit them or not....

On the one hand he will try to usher in a socialist radical environmentalist dystopia...but on the other hand, maybe he will have fewer tweets in all-caps. Let's call it a draw.

[R Mac]

Don’t forget the media won’t report about kids in cages. Which will be good for the feelz.

[Nardz]

Or the spying. Or the increase in foreign troops. Or the corruption. Or the inflation. Or the confiscation of personal bank accounts...

[JesseAz]

Local story.

[Gray_Jay]

He might deregulate weed. A little. Huzzah!

[SIV]

Biden might lock up possessors of small non-commercial quantities of hard drugs in pseudo-medical prison instead of the other kind which will be left-libertopia for Mike Riggs and ex-reasoner Radley Balko.

[JesseAz]

Another benefit... 4 years of presidential racism saying poor kids can do just as well as white kids.

Corn pop for sec def.

[Cyto]

This is excellent analysis.

That is legitimately the level of hysteria we have dealt with. We got most of what we have been asking for... But he is rude on twitter. So let's have the guy who used the state against political enemies. That will be so much better!

[Bogart]

Don't forget about continuing the forever wars, sanctions, Color Revolutions (Most important one in the USA) and World Policing.

And don't forget about the nationwide (That includes US Territories I am sure) mask mandate and new lock downs. If the governments of the UK and Germany can do it, then so can the most powerful government in the world.

[Ken Shultz]

Divided government?!

Says who? You know the results in Georgia already? Can you give me some lotto numbers, too?

[Gray_Jay]

Does NC's go to a runoff too, if Tilis can't get back above 50%? That should be interesting.

[68W58]

No runoff in NC, but ballots can still be received through the 12th, so stay tuned.

[Dillinger]

um, no.

>>the promise and pitfalls of divided government

the divide is government v. people don't you dummies watch the Remy videos?

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

marvelous late-breaking news that a COVID-19 vaccine appears to be incoming.

Late-breaking indeed.

[Ken Shultz]

I remember Trump telling us these vaccine thingys were forthcoming, but I had to go hunt for it--after the news media reported it like Trump was telling tall tales again.

I'm not saying anybody withheld a vaccine until Biden was declared the winner, but this really does look like one of those cases where the media wasn't taking anything Trump said seriously.

[Jason A]

Oh, they heard what he was saying. The fix was in. Just like the MSM hasn't reported any of the good news about Middle East progress made by the Trump administration. They're not going to give Trump any positive news. It's 100% negative all the time.

Trump is right. The MSM is an enemy of the state. And they're proving it over and over.

[Ken Shultz]

I would venture that most Americans probably don't know that he signed a full withdrawal from Afghanistan agreement with the Taliban.

[Cyto]

Look, other than 3 peace deals in the last month - including a couple of Arab/Israel peace accords, a deal with the Taliban and withdrawal from Afghanistan, no new wars, staying out of Syrian war and ending ISIL, squishing Iranian proxy wars and upgrading trade deals, exactly what has he accomplished in foreign policy?

[genXer]

All of those things were on the verge of happening anyway and really they happened despite of him./s

Thanks Obama!

[genXer]

All of those things were on the verge of happening anyway and really they happened despite of him./s

Thanks Obama

[Ken Shultz]

Defund the media!

Cord cutting is a libertarian act of defiance.

[Chipper Morning Wood--------------------------------------------------------------------------]

Trump said a vaccine is coming before the election, and everyone said that no, the earliest we would get any results from Phase 3 would be in November. So where is the controversy.

[Cyto]

I don't recall that at all. I recall Trump saying exactly this was coming and everyone in the press saying he was crazy, that it would be impossible to have any vaccine news before next year.

That seems to happen a lot. The first I remember was that Trump was crazy for suggesting his phones at Trump tower had been tapped. Something still fact checked as false because "they don't physically tap wires any more. It is all digital".

[Ken Shultz]

"As you know, there can only be two choices in American politics"

Sarcasm regarding Duverger's Law is unwarranted.

We're about to get screwed because at least half of Libertopia doesn't know the first thing about Duverger's Law, and you're kidding about it--like it's a silly trope?

[Dillinger]

they're kidding about it like they don't understand it.

[Ken Shultz]

They're kidding about it like only silly people think there were only two alternatives.

But there were only two alternatives.

[Dillinger]

exactly. really only one though lol.

[M. Stack Overflow]

Will you go out with me Tulpa? Pretty please? I think I love you.

[R Mac]

You already tried to ask him out and he rejected you. That’s why you’re so broken.

[SQRLSY One]

Tulpa is already tied up in a fivesome with R Mac, Miss Piggy, Pepe the stolen-IP-4Chan-Frog, and Steve Bannon. There's no room left!

[R Mac]

Deranged ranting of a lunatic.

[SQRLSY One]

Wow, what clever wit! Did your mommy help you write that?

[Dillinger]

also totes not Tulpa although he's getting better at being me

[Brian]

And if Trump could have stopped stepping on his own dick, he might not have depended on the tiny portion of voters who goes for Libertarian candidates.

[Dillinger]

>>depended on the tiny portion of voters who goes for Libertarian candidates

I don't believe this is the case ... the vitriol is bizarre.

[M. Stack Overflow]

Oh tulpy, eventhough you have a tiny dick and can't imagine how someone might step on theirs, its okay. I love you for exactly what you are,

[JesseAz]

So you care more about how he acts than the actual policies. How about not using the president as a replacement for daddy?

[Brian]

I think Trump can look in the mirror and explain a lot of his election problems.

[JesseAz]

Again. You care more about how someone presents themselves than their policies or effectiveness.

Thats what you're saying. Its a stupid way to live through life. See the old adage of the town with two barbers, which one do you use.

[Brian]

It's hard to be effective at policy when you lose an election.

[sarcasmic]

How about not using the president as a replacement for daddy?

Self awareness much? Nope. Didn't think so.

[JesseAz]

Youre broken. You've been giddy at an increased authoritarianism. You'll pull the same lying bullshit of not both sides after spending a year decrying only one side.

Keeping lying to yourself buddy. Enjoy increased taxes, regulations, federal powers, the GND, etc.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Ready for replacement, JesseAZ?

It doesn't matter. Your stale, bigoted preferences are irrelevant, as always, in modern America.

[Chipper Morning Wood--------------------------------------------------------------------------]

That's too funny, coming from Blue State Jesse and his love of Orange Daddy.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

So you care more about how he acts than the actual policies.

If you were being honest, you yourself would also admit that a candidate's character matters ALONG WITH the candidate's policies.

How many times have we heard here that Hillary is a horrible human being? How many times have we heard that Biden is corrupt? Isn't that relevant to deciding whether or not to vote for either of them, regardless of what their policies are?

If Hillary Clinton had Milton Friedman's policies, would you vote for her? Answer: no. Because you hate and despise her as a human being. And guess what, you are entitled to hate and despise anyone you like. Just don't pretend that the same sentiment doesn't go both ways.

[Chipper Morning Wood--------------------------------------------------------------------------]

It is the very height of folly to expect good policies from bad people.

[Trigger Warning]

So why are you happy about Biden and Harris?

[Chipper Morning Wood--------------------------------------------------------------------------]

I am not. I am merely happy that Trump will be gone soon.

[newshutz]

Yes, it was critically important to replace the used car salesman with the senile crook and his corrupt prosecutor backup.

[Cyto]

I agree. Character is critical.

And Trump is inscrutable on this. He bragged about how the supermodels just jump on his junk in a private conversation, he plays childish sounding tit-for-tat with people who criticise him, he sometimes explains things like he is a 5 year old trying to get a cookie...

Yet he was resolutely anti-war ... Even to the point of getting excoriated for bailing on a strike against Iranian bases. He got deals done on criminal justice and black college funding with people who publicly called him Hitler for his trouble. He ended Obama's policy of family separation. He kept his promises on all sorts of things.

The guy is an enigma. I think he plays a character all the time. That guy who talks like he flunked 3rd grade and never made it to middle school is just a tool for persuasion. I don't get it because I don't think that way, but his persona at rallies is vastly different. Suddenly he is a standup doing a bit, and he can talk for 2.5 hours without notes.

I understand this guy less than anyone in history. He gives me the impression of a moron... Yet the results are indisputably better than anyone in my lifetime from a libertarian perspective (admittedly a low bar).

[Chipper Morning Wood--------------------------------------------------------------------------]

Can we please stop with the bullshit that Trump was some kind of an anti-war President? Just because he didn't start any new wars? He drastically increased drone strikes compared to Obama, expanded the U.S. involvement in Yemen, and continued on in Afghanistan. He did reduce the troops in Syria, but the U.S still has soldiers in Syria.

[Eric]

How a legislator acts is more important than character. The President wears more hats than a legislator. Head of State, for example, is one area where the President’s conduct is critical. Same with Chief Executive. Brian’s correct. Trump’s conduct cost him the election. And deservedly so.

[Bill Godshall]

"We’re about to get screwed because at least half of Libertopia doesn’t know the first thing about Duverger’s Law, and you’re kidding about it–like it’s a silly trope?"

Has any court allowed Duverger's Law to be introduced as evidence in voter fraud litigation (challenging vote counts)?

And if so, have any courts cited or relied upon Duverger's Law to invalidate votes?

[Lord of Strazele]

Invalidating votes to pretend fraud is straight from the pages of 1984. Those votes represent actual people. I imagine those people would have something to say about a court stealing their votes. This isn't some abstract shit. These votes represent flesh and blood Americans

[Lord of Strazele]

*Prevent not pretend

[Trigger Warning]

They even represent dead Americans!

[Cyto]

North Carolina 2018 had a revote over a very small number of fraudulent ballots. (By Republicans).

[Jason A]

And, still no discussion on Vox Light about possible voter fraud issues in WI, MI, NV, PA and GA. Remember when the MSM thought voter fraud issues in FL cost Gore the 2000 election and they reported on it non-stop?

There are valid and substantial statistical anomalies in these states and the MSM is straight up ignoring all of it. All I get here on Vox Light is Sullum telling me that Trump is crazy for questioning a process that basically half the country is questioning. The MSM and Liberals aren't even pretending to give a shit about election integrity.

[Chipper Morning Wood--------------------------------------------------------------------------]

Once again, if there is any actual evidence of widespread voter fraud, it will be brought up in court. Trump's lawyers already had 4 lawsuits tossed for lack of evidence.

[Cyto]

The courts don't offer much confidence. Remember, it was the actual Supreme Court of Pennsylvania who decreed that even though state law explicitly set Nov 4 as the deadline for all mail in ballots to be received and explicitly required that signatures must match, Covid means that you cannot invalidate a ballot for having the wrong or no signature not for being late, and even for being late and without postmark.

Much as Florida in 2000 saw the court simply invent a recount procedure at the behest of Gore's team that directly contradicted state law (and any semblance of fairness), the courts this year are partisan and undermine the rule of law and confidence in the system.

Like immigration, these issues are easy to fix. The fact that they are not fixed should tell you that, like immigration, they do not want the issues fixed. They must see some political advantage to maintaining a broken system.

[Chipper Morning Wood--------------------------------------------------------------------------]

The result in PA would not change if those ballots are thrown out. Nevertheless such ballots should not be thrown out, because that rule should have been changed due to covid, but wasn't because of the GOP legislature refused, knowing this would hurt the GOP.

[CE]

allowing ballots to come in a few days late (with a valid, on-time postmark) makes sense.
not checking signatures makes no sense at all.

[newshutz]

Since you did not respond to Cyto's main point we are left to presume that you are ok with a broken electoral system.

[SIV]

Reason is5Teen Vox

[Nail]

Hope you guys stretched properly before pulling off these logic-defying mental gymnastics.

[Dillinger]

too much credit on the mental part.

[Wearenotperfect]

I'm not happy Biden "won" but I'm grateful that Trump lost. Does that make me a bad individual? I guess it does and I'm ok with that ain't that right Sevo and friends.

[Jason A]

Let us know if you feel the same way when the economic is flat-lined, or worse with COVID lockdowns, you're paying more taxes AND you're electric bill is double. But, you won't have to hear the MSM scream and cry about Trump's mean tweets.

[JesseAz]

No. Youre happy. You think the truth commission will ignore you for being compliant.

[Sometimes Bad Is Bad]

With Biden you get all his baggage and the fact he's an empty suit willing to go to bat for the highest bidder. I think you'll someday say you're grateful that corrupt Biden and his sociopathic protege are gone, unfortunately by then it will be far too late.

[Cyto]

Biden is "back to business as usual". Hopefully Harris will be the same, because I don't see Biden holding up too much longer. He really isn't the guy he was even 2 or 3 years ago. And she is.... Well.... She's a real piece of work.

[Nardz]

Yikes

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

I'm just relieved that we're finally returning to Politics as Usual.

[SaulRosenberg]

CHANGE THE CHANNEL MARGE

[sarcasmic]

Republicans lost and Republicans own the libertarian vote. Just like the Democrats own the votes of blacks, Jews, and poor people.

Because libertarian votes are the property of Republicans, the only way the headline can be true is if Democrats get their way, which means Reason is a communist publication. If they were libertarian then they'd be completely uncritical of Republicans.

Dirty commies. They should be cancelled.

JesseAz, Nardz, Sevo, and other idjits, did I get that right?

[lap83]

Dont worry, any Republican who ever met you would know you're a lost cause.

[JesseAz]

Youre broken. All you care about is the GOP lost even if it means a complete growth of an authoritarian state. Biden is yours buddy. No going back on it.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

All you care about is the GOP lost even if it means a complete growth of an authoritarian state.

Kinda like how most of the commenters were around here circa 2016, "I'M JUST GLAD HILLARY LOST!!!!!"

[Nardz]

Pretty sure you've gotten almost nothing in your life right, sarc.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

If in fact Biden won, it might be worth considering who else won. The war party won. The neocons won. The anti school choicers won. The regulators won. Every entrenched, corrupt, rent seeking institution public or private won. The Wall Street bankers won. The public employee unions won. The Covid dictators won. The deep state won. Hunter Biden won. The global warming hysterics won. TOP MEN across the board won. Critical Race Theory won. Neither a Republican senate nor the Supreme court will change any of that.
Trump started no new wars. He is bringing troops home from Afghanistan. He gave us Betsy Devos who was unraveling decades of progressive damage. He gave us Neil Gorsuch and Amy Coney Barrett. Who do you figure Biden willl nominate? In all likelihood we will see the coronation of President Harris within a couple of years. Just a reminder, she is one of the most cynical and corrupt politicians in the history of the republic. At least that's what the Reason archives seem to indicate.
But yeah, I'm pretty sure this is libertarian moment we've all been waiting for.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Yeah, that leak that let Trump slip through in 2016 is going to be plugged tighter than Huma Abadin's ass. I'm guessing we won't see another anomaly like Trump in my lifetime. We saw an outsider candidate make considerable noise in 1992, that being Ross Perot, but that somehow got tamped down for a while. But when Trump won, I guarantee you every fissure and crack is being sealed up as we speak.

[Ken Shultz]

I hope you're wrong about that, but I'm afraid you're right.

I thought Trump was a joke in 2016.

We will probably never see a president that good on the issues ever again.

The pragmatism in foreign policy alone was worth its weight in gold. If Hillary Clinton had been elected, we'd have banned assault weapons in the wake of the Las Vegas shooting, and we'd have gone to war in Syria.

[Cyto]

I am in the same boat.

I literally said Trump was a joke.. here and at home. As in, "people are telling pollsters that they support Trump as a joke" back in 2015.

"Nobody will ever walk in to a voting booth and pull the lever for Trump".

- Cyto, before the first Republican primary.

I never bothered to listen to his rallies, so all I ever heard was debat Trump. "It will be great. The best. You will see. Just the best". Sounded like a moron to me

And then something altogether different happened. And pretty much every public figure I respected lost their mind. Except for Greenwald, I suppose.

I am still convinced that this is a dream sequence and I will be waking up next to Suzanne Pleschette any minute now. Not a lick of it makes sense.

[newshutz]

HI, I'm Larry, this is my brother Darrel and this is my other brother Darrel.

[CE]

after Perot, the bi-partisan Debate Commission decided to get a lot more bi-partisan, meaning only 2 parties. they raised the qualifying threshold to 15 percent! when it was 5 percent the first time. Perot got fawning coverage on 60 Minutes, the most-watched show in America at the time, when he first ran.

[Rat on a train]

Life is just a series of libertarian moments. Why don't you go seize yours?

[Sometimes Bad Is Bad]

Yes yes that would be ideal to live your life and not have others interfere. But reality says democrats will do anything and everything in their power to make life miserable for the 99%. They want power, and they don't care what you desire. Pray they don't get the senate, because you're going to find out what they really want.

[Rat on a train]

I was too subtle in the quote. Only nuns would get it.

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[A Thinking Mind]

Some 70+ million eligible voters declined to cast a vote. Jo Jorgensen got something like 1.8 million votes. There's so many non voters that if the entire non-voting electorate had voted for Kanye West, he'd have steamrolled the popular vote.

Don't know why Rs want to whine about JJ's vote tally.

[Sometimes Bad Is Bad]

I can't imagine. Because Biden is such a libertarian. Or do you object to Trump's no wars, lower taxes, fewer regs, release low level prisoners, nominate constitutionalists to the court, end identity politics, own the left strategy? Was he perfect, no. Cutting spending would have been great. Trump had too many yes men around him. He could have figured out a path for legal immigration and guest workers. He was far too beholden to his image. He didn't communicate well. But I'll take half a measure to Biden's corrupt ways absolutely any day. Biden is the complete left wing socialist package, because he's an empty vessel waiting to be filled by whoever sends the graft his way.

Hope the republicans hold the senate. You'll see why if they don't.

[A Thinking Mind]

If I liked Biden, I'd have voted for Biden. I voted for JJ, because Republicans still want way too much government. If Republicans could actually manage to follow through on their vows to cut spending any time they get control of the government, I might consider voting R. I'm not going to reward for sucking slightly less than their opponents.

[Nardz]

Now you get much, much, much more government than you would've gotten with Trump.

You'll have even more to bitch about, so you're going to be getting what you really want.

[A Thinking Mind]

Seems like you have a bigger issue with the 76 million people who voted for Biden than the 1.8 million who voted for JJ.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

It's never Trump's fault. It's always someone else's fault.

Hillary loses in 2016: SHE WAS A TERRIBLE CANDIDATE
Trump loses in 2020: IT'S THE DAMN LIBERTARIANS' FAULT

[newshutz]

No, only you Jeff, no one else.

Biden is your responsibility alone.
But we can blame Kamala on Tulpa.

[creech]

Maybe the Libertarian Party can hold an auction every four years: "we agree to not have a presidential candidate run in XYZ state(s); what will your candidate give us if he or she wins?"

[Sometimes Bad Is Bad]

The LP should have been building a base and running down ballot candidates everywhere. It takes a huge ground game. But they go for the gold every 4 years and get nothing. It's a waste of time running for president. Sure they get on the ballot - that's a chore for any 3rd party. Still though if libertarian principles are important then you better start at the grass roots and build it up. You need a large number of people willing to go the distance for years, not just a few thousand to show up at the polls to prank the other candidates.

The LP squandered five decades. They actually had some republican support and even their most successful candidates ran as republicans. It's all about the ducats.

[creech]

The LP doesn't run a presidential candidate and discourage all others from running. They would enter every potential race but can't find the candidates to do so. How many of you want to spend two or three months running a real campaign, only to get 2% of the vote?

[CE]

the LP does run down-ballot candidates. they get crushed too. voters just vote the D or R party label for down-ballot candidates.

at least the LP presidential candidate gets some national press, in a normal election year. Jorgensen was invisible this year, as was the Green Party candidate, and not because of anything they did wrong.

[Nardz]

"Maybe the Libertarian Party can hold an auction every four years: “we agree to not have a presidential candidate run in XYZ state(s); what will your candidate give us if he or she wins?”"

That's... actually not a bad idea.
Or it would've been, but I don't think elections are going to matter much from here out.
We'll still have "elections" though, because the illusion is important.

[MarylinDMalloy]

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[Unicorn Abattoir]

I think it time to reconsider strange women lying in ponds distributing swords as a basis for a system of government.

[bignose]

Be quiet!

[CE]

can't someone figure out how to get a sword stuck in a stone so that only a brave and virtuous leader can pull it out?

[SIV]

Block is an an-cap and Mair is a Republican political consultant, no?

So it is fair to sum up the " libertarian dichotomy" as between:

Contract political mercenary to would be rulers prefers an ultimate insider center-left proven-ally of the administrative state checked by a center-right controlled deliberative legislative body.

Anti-state intellectual ideologue prefers...TRUMP.

[IceTrey]

Elections to a government that initiates force are never good for libertarians. Every single person who currently works in government in the US is a tyrant. Never forget that.

[Sometimes Bad Is Bad]

You're getting into Ward Churchill territory there.

[CE]

yeah, I thought about running for Congress on the LP ticket. but in principle, I would have to waive my salary to avoid stealing from the taxpayers. and then I would miss out on the pension plan, which is the best part.

[Nail]

Van Jones fights back tears: Result shows character matters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2ScxGsB-ks

Oof what a maroon.
We're living in a clown world.

[Sometimes Bad Is Bad]

Van Jones was rejected by the Obama admin. But CNN found him acceptable. All that needs saying.

[Nardz]

So I was just playing around with excel a bit, looking at the vote totals for Trump, Biden, R senate candidates, and D senate candidates.
34 states. Arkansas is useless, because there was no D candidate for senate. Georgia has 2 seats and a multiple candidates for one of them. Added the totals for all R candidates to get one figure, same with all D candidates, for senate; divided that figure by 2 to compare to prez candidate.
Looking at T and B +/- vs downballot candidate, raw and as ratio.

[Nardz]

Trump's average ratio to the R senate candidate is 1.02 with a standard deviation 0.059
Biden's is 1.04 and 0.133

[HamSandwich]

^ this guy is so fucking broken it is hilarious

maybe you can meet guiliani at a lumber yard or home goods store or wherever he schedules the next trump legal meeting and present him with your spreadsheets! he might even give you a pat on the ass and put it up on the fridge!

lmao so invested in R losers he is absolutely losing his shit. maybe you can put together a "Nardz" dossier for the trump loser team too

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

meet guiliani at a lumber yard

for you Peanuts who only read Wingnut.com this is a reference to the incompetents in the Trump administration who scheduled their presser at the Four Seasons Landscaping Company instead of the hotel.

Trump surrounds himself with yes men and idiots - the good ones have been fired and talk about what a "fucking moron" Trump is.

[Nardz]

It's hilarious how insecure I make you

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[Moderation4ever]

I thought the Nick's point that this election saw, however small, a break-up of voting monopolies was good. He noted that black and Hispanic males voted in larger numbers for Trump, while more white men voted for Biden. A break-up will be good if voters begin to look more at issues and less at their personal identity. It will also be good to see if parties respond to this and do greater outreach including addressing issue important to these groups.
On the disturbing side was Peter's response that while fault line along racial identity are softening, the lines along education levels are growing. I can not help but wonder where this will take us with regard to the parties.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

What's up, Peanuts and Trumptards?

It's funny Republicans are claiming vote fraud in Georgia and demanding the resignation of the REPUBLICAN Sec of State after complaining about prog loons doing the same in the Stacy Abrams race.

conservatives and progs - both idiots.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

US elections: Trump accuses Pfizer of delaying announcement on Covid vaccine to deny him a win

https://scroll.in/latest/978135/us-elections-trump-accuses-pfizer-of-delaying-announcement-on-covid-vaccine-to-deny-him-a-win

"Hoax" virus comes back to bite Con Man is his fat ass.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

I was asked to lie about Hunter Biden, admits Ukrainian businessman

Hares Youssef claims he was promised a US visa in return for information that would damage Joe Biden’s presidential campaign, writes Manveen Rana

After an election campaign built on attacking the reputation of his rival’s son, Donald Trump is facing calls for a new legal investigation into his activities in Ukraine where he and his associates were looking for dirt on Hunter Biden.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/i-was-asked-to-lie-about-hunter-biden-admits-ukrainian-businessman-853krxgtz

GOP ratfucking liars fail the Con Man.

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[Ride 'Em]

Kinda good for libertarians? What a bunch of BS. Higher taxes, a person who has been on the wrong side of foreign policy for a bunch of years, who thought leading from the rear was a good policy, more regulation, back in the Paris Accord, I could go on and on.

In the end, neither candidate was/is worthy of being president, but to say Biden is kind of good for libertarians or individualists defies logic.

This is why I read few articles and will not subscribe to the magazine. I used to visit daily but, like FB, don't visit much and mostly read the brickbats.

[dopic81027]

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[Bogart]

The election was loss for individual liberty and libertarians. The results showed that corruption and bad behavior matter little to Democrats, Neo-Cons and Never Trumpers. The worst part is that both Biden and Harris are completely beholden to the Neo-Cons and Never Trumpers who really were force behind his vote getting in swing states.

There are two happenstances that don't make this whole mess less than a complete disaster for liberty and libertarians which are the hopeful gridlock soon to come as neither party will have the votes to remove the Filibuster or stack the Supreme Court. The other is that the Far Left (The Bernie Bunch) has be subjected to the back seat at least until 2022.

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[chemjeff radical individualist]

If Republicans don't own the libertarian vote, then why should it be presumed that libertarians will automatically vote for Republicans?

[CE]

seems like half the commenters here are presuming that