Reason Roundup

You Are Not Entitled to Libertarian Votes

Plus: protests, the Senate race, and more...


As the results of the 2020 presidential election remain unknown, partisans on both sides have begun casting about desperately for folks to blame. Latino voters for Trump have been getting a special amount of guff from Democrats. And both liberals and conservatives agree that third-party voters are a problem, which each side somehow convinced that those who cast their ballots for Libertarian candidate Jo Jorgensen are traitors who owed votes to either former Vice President Joe Biden or President Donald Trump.

As of yesterday morning, Jorgensen was pulling nearly 1.6 million votes, with her vote total beating the spread between Biden and Trump in several vital states.

In Georgia, Jorgensen has received nearly 60,400 votes, or 1.2 percent of the state's total. Currently, Trump is beating Biden in Georgia by fewer than 19,000 votes.

In Nevada—where Biden is currently beating Trump by less than one percent—Jorgensen has drawn about 1.4 percent of the vote.

In Wisconsin, Jorgensen has received more than 38,400 votes, or 1.2 percent. That's also more than the margin of votes by which Trump is losing Wisconsin to Biden.

And Jorgensen hovers around 1 percent in Michigan, where Biden is beating Trump by just about one percent.

Earning about 1.14 percent of the total U.S. vote, Jorgensen's total "marks a steep drop-off from Gary Johnson's 3.28 percent in 2016," notes Reason's Matt Welch. But she still earned the second-highest number of presidential votes in Libertarian history, beating "every other third-party and independent candidate in all 50 states and the District of Columbia" and "quintupling Green Party nominee Howie Hawkins' current total of 0.23 percent."

"Jorgensen has already easily bested Bob Barr's 523,713 votes in 2008 and Ron Paul's 431,750 in 1988," points out the Washington Examiner.

Alas, the fact that there are Libertarian voters who can't be persuaded to support either Democrats or Republicans seems wholly lost on a lot of people, who insist on imagining them solely as swing voters for one or the other of the ruling parties.

Republicans have been especially indignant about Jorgensen voters, as if it goes without saying that these people would have otherwise chosen Donald Trump.

"Libertarian voters could have swung the Electoral College by at least 22 votes by supporting Trump in battleground states Wisconsin, Michigan and Nevada," complained GOP strategist Ryan Cassin on Fox News yesterday. "By throwing away their votes, they've likely become spoilers for the Trump reelection effort."

It's a complaint that Libertarians are sadly used to—and, as always, it's a hollow one. The Trump administration and its allies have spent years growing the government, turning against free speech and free trade, and in some cases mocking the idea that libertarian-minded constituents are a part of their coalition. Yet come election time, they act baffled that Libertarians wouldn't want to lend this administration their support.

"If they're going to cry about the libertarian vote playing spoiler when they lose, then they either have an incentive to attract it with better candidates & policies, or they need to keep our names out of their mouths," suggests the libertarian journalist Hannah Cox. "They don't get to have it both ways."

Analyst Dennis Santiago told Fox News that "there very much is a note of irony" that Libertarian voters could help Biden and his "agenda of opposition to gun control, taxes, and socialized health care." Like many in the GOP, he seems to be harboring the delusion that Trump's terrible big government agenda should somehow be preferable to libertarians than Biden's terrible big government agenda. Libertarians are showing, once again, that we can and will reject both.

Here's how Libertarians have been reacting to the blame:

"Want Libertarians to vote for you? Try nominating someone who doesn't add trillions to the national debt, will actually end our foreign wars and bring the troops home, and believes the rights of all people are to be protected," tweeted the Libertarian Party on Wednesday evening. "Until then—as always—your tears are delicious."



• Biden needs only a few more electoral votes for the presidential race to be called in his favor.

• It looks like the Senate will stay controlled by Republicans, which has the benefit of hindering a potential President Biden's ability to get things done.

• The Trump campaign is trying desperately to still turn this in their favor, saying yesterday "that it would launch a legal blitz to try to halt vote-counting in Pennsylvania and Michigan, would seek a recount in Wisconsin," and would challenge "the handling of ballots in Georgia," The Washington Post reports.

• A lack of final results to protest hasn't stopped protesters in such spots as Portland and New York City:

• A Chris Hayes thread reminds Democrats that no one owes them or anyone else votes; start here:

NEXT: Scalia and Ginsburg, Best Friends Forever

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  1. If every Trump voter had just cast for JoJo instead, we wouldn’t be looking at Biden/Harris for the next 16 years.

    1. And if pigs could fly….

      1. The article says:

        You Are Not Entitled to Libertarian Votes –

        We might not be entitled to libertarian votes, but libertarians are entitled to receive the same treatment as republicans from Democrats. Most democrats see libertarians as just a farther “right wing” group than republicans. Call them tea bagging morons and the like. Make no mistake, libertarians will be getting the democrat treatment like it or not.

        Join or die (you guys chose die – congrats)

        1. C O P E

          1. I basically make about $8,000-$12,000 a month online. It’s enough to comfortably replace my old jobs income, especially considering GHQ I only work about 10-13 hours a week from home. I was amazed how easy it was after I tried it copy below web………..

            See………..>> JOB 24 HOURE

          2. Google easily work and google pays me every hour and every week just $5K to $8K for doing online work from home. I am a universty student and I work n my part time just 2 to 3 hours a day easily from home. Qnm Now every one can earn extra cash for doing online home system and make a good life by just open this website and follow instructions on this page… Visit Here

            1. I get paid more than $120 to $130 per hour for working online. I heard about this job 3 months ago and after joining this i have earned easily $16k from this without having online working skills.

              This is what I do….. Jobs24 Houre

          3. Google is by and by paying $27485 to $29658 consistently for taking a shot at the web from home. I have joined this action 2 kea months back and I have earned $31547 in my first month from this action. I can say my life is improved completely! Take a gander at it

            what I do………Click here

    2. Hello.

      It’s good Trump is fighting but it doesn’t look good. The only way out is if he holds onto to PA (and it’s retarded they allowed for late counting) and somehow gets AZ. It doesn’t like he’ll hold on to PA though unless somehow those ballots coming in for the Pitt/Philly area somehow split.

      Look at the silver lining. The GOP did well with the House and Senate. People bought into four years of DNC lies and shenanigans. The GOP can’t match that kind of maniacal and ruthless behaviour. Not even Trump. It was relentless mud and shit slinging.

      Like a crazy woman scorned after her hubby didn’t invite her to a swingers party. Woot, woot.

      1. We have to rely on the courts now.
        But if the left does successfully steal this thing, there are no silver linings. It’s game over.
        I’d love to be wrong, but 2020 proved that there is no line they will not cross and that they’re even eager to inflict damage to millions of people and this country in their pursuit of totalitarian power.

        1. Banana republic stuff now and it will happen to them too.

          1. Nobody can explain how both Mich/Wisc had a 6am update of 100k votes all for Biden. It is statistically impossible for the most part. Basically a small town all voted for one person with no disagreement for both. Both states refuse to comment on the jumps.

            1. I basically make about $8,000-$12,000 a month online. It’s enough to comfortably replace my old jobs income, especially considering GHJ I only work about 10-11 hours a week from home. I was amazed how easy it was after I tried it copy below web………..

              See………..>>WORK 24

        2. And if I’m McConnell this is how the next four years should play out:

          Fuck. You.

          You give them NOTHING.

          You pulled this shit for four years making life miserable? You get NOTHING.

          Remember what Michael told Senator Pat Geary? ‘Senator. You can have my answer now. NOTHING.’

          And then added he’d appreciate if he paid for the license.

          Go Michael Corleone on this son of a bitches.

          1. these

            1. Enjoy softball practice, Rufus. That’s the problem when majorities hinge on literally one or two people.

              I see McConnell going right back to being a survivor, without Trump or Trump’s supporters to help him keep doing the fantastic job he did with filling judicial vacancies.

              1. I get the feeling practice will consist of me sadly hitting balls into an empty field and me going to gather up the balls and start over.

              2. Except history runs contrary to your statement.

                McConnell told Obama to FO for 10 months when he nominated anti-gun Merick Garland.

                1. Because there was an election later that year. Now see if he’d have done his fantastic stonewall act if he had to wait 4 years. Or if Hillary had won.

                  I don’t see it.

                  1. I don’t see anything in McConnell’s far too long history of “public service” (what a joke that phrase is) to suggest he has the intestinal fortitude to be that guy.

                    1. He was the lone voice brave enough to go on TV shows to talk against McCain Feinggold. He has a huge brass set.

                    2. You’re probably not wrong, but hope for the opposite is pretty much all we have left at this point.

                  2. Well I wouldn’t have expected, or wanted, him to stonewall for 4 years. The whole point was the election was later that year- if there is a vacancy with Biden in the WH before 2024, then yeah, they will need to consider his nominee. I don’t think we say no one gets confirmed EVER unless the WH and Senate are the same party- that’s no way to operate. But an R Senate CAN reject a more extreme nominee, and hope to end up with a Merrick Garland vs putting AOC on the court or something.

                    The point is, I think, that in that situation, McConnell held strong when there was a lot of pressure to buckle even in the 10 months.

          2. And if I’m McConnell this is how the next four years should play out:

            Fuck. You.

            You give them NOTHING.

            Unfortunately I don’t think McConnell has that in him. He’ll “compromise” in the name “healing the country” or some such horseshit.

        3. Bingo. We have been a banana republic for years, but at least Trump is dragging it out in the open — even if you have to listen to alt-media to hear most of the story.

          The LP were idiots to even nominate a candidate when the only possible effect was to put the Biden crime family in charge, thus putting Red China in charge. Which may be about to happen.

      2. It’s going to end up at the Supreme Court just like it did in 2000. The only question is what the outcome will be.

        Regardless, an election where counted voters outnumbered registered voters in several battleground states, in conjunction where vote counts suddenly stopped being reported for several hours at a time followed by instant 100-500K gains for Biden after the reporting resumed, is going to taint the result no matter what. Especially when, as you point out, the Republicans actually gained House seats, will likely keep the Senate, and made gains among Hispanics.

        1. Across minorities too.

          Everything points to rigging.

          There’s no question in my mind they’re throwing out Trump ballots.

          I hope I’m wrong but the Swamp is lashing its tail reminding everyone who’s boss.

        2. Red, here is a question I have. Could a state legislature simply substitute a slate of electors for the electors chosen by a tainted vote? In other words, a Legislature says, “Our vote was tainted, and therefore is suspect. We are appointing this slate of electors to rectify the problem”.

          If they find fraudulent voting in MI, WI, PA; what constitutionally stops those state legislatures from doing that (aside from the fact they’ll probably lose their next election)?

          1. All that stuff would have to be hashed out by the SC. Considering we’re likely looking at recounts and ballot verification in all these states due to the lawsuits (and for the record, I fully expect that Biden will do the same in any state that doesn’t come out in his favor), things are going to come down the final minute before electors have to be declared. This will basically be a repeat of 2000, just with more states in play.

          2. Here’s what the constitution says:

            Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress; but no Senator or Representative, or person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States shall be appointed an Elector.

            The Congress may determine the Time of choosing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.

            [Emphasis added] So based on this I assume that each state has passed a law that slates of electors are chosen by popular vote. In order to “throw out” the vote for this election and appoint their own choice for slate of electors I assume they would need to pass a law to that effect in order for it to be legal and to survive the inevitable SCOTUS challenge. But don’t quote me one that, I’m not a lawyer or constitutional law expert or anything.

            1. +100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

          3. Yes, that’s exactly what state legislatures have to do if the state’s voting officials can’t certify a slate of electors.

      3. Like a crazy woman scorned after her hubby didn’t invite her to a swingers party. Woot, woot.

        That may be the best analogy for the Democraps behavior over the last 4 years that I’ve seen yet. I’ll have to steal that one.

      4. I know this needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt, but the Trump campaign seems confident in holding PA and taking AZ. They have been consistent since election night, and all day yesterday. And I’m not talking Trump himself here, who will spout nonsense if it suits him- campaign people who know the numbers. Everything they have said has been correct so far (AZ votes counted yesterday/last night from relatively unfriendly territory being more pro-Trump than many thought). It’s not a guarantee, obviously, and they might just be blowing smoke to sow discord and keep Biden from being the president-elect in the nation’s collective consciousness. But they seem to really believe it, and will look silly for repeating it over and over, in very specific terms, if they are wrong.

        1. Trump won Maricopa County in 2016 and AZ in 2016.

          Things change in America but not that fast.

      5. Trump doesn’t need AZ, he just needs NV. (assuming he holds on in PA, GA, and NC).

      6. I decided back during the Bush/Cheney/Rove Administration that I couldn’t in good conscience vote for any Republican for anything until they cleaned up their corruption, dishonesty, and policy that winning was more important than principle. It helped that they’d also abandoned any pretext of fiscal responsibility, which was generally the reason that Libertarians are “supposed to” prefer Republicans.

        Yeah, that didn’t get any better. I spent the 80s in NJ watching Trump bankrupt casinos providing gambling to New Yorkers (a business that should be as wildly successful as a liquor store in a college town; you only lose money if you’re skimming from your partners or if you’re too mobbed up.) And calling for the execution of the Central Park Five (who were innocent, but most libertarians are against the state killing guilty people too), and calling for Mike Tyson not to be sent to jail for rape because he should be out boxing and raising money for (Trump and) rape-prevention charities or something.

        Then there’s Trump’s central 2016 campaign issue, which was hating immigrants; allowing anyone to move anywhere has always been one of the LP’s core values. And allowing the Koch Bros to totally gut environmental protection, letting the coal companies go back to poisoning water and letting the energy companies cook the planet.

    3. Biden won’t last a month.

      1. Well, Biden/Harris is a brand name for the establishment that will be running the administration.

      2. Hard to call; if they let him sit in the White House basement two years and a day, Kween Kamala gets 10 years of rule.
        She will be effectively ruling even before they boot Basement Bunker Biden with the 25th amendment. I suspect ol’ sleepy Joe won’t even know who is put in “his” cabinet.

        1. They will cut his feed to the outside World. He is too afraid to leave his basement.

        2. Harris couldn’t even get 2 percent in the Dem primaries. You think she will be elected twice?

          1. If she gets nominated by the democrats, she will win.
            This election is showing that voting is on the way out as actually determining who “wins”.
            By her second term, we will probably vote online, and twitter projections will confirm the democrat victory the day before.

          2. The Democratic primaries were mostly about one issue – “Who can beat Trump”. You may have mostly Republican friends; I’m in California where I’ve got a much different perspective, and since I’ve objected to the concept of President Trump ever since he was the opening clown act in the 2012 GOP primaries (his second Presidential campaign), I’ve paid a lot of attention to the Dems.

            The leading Democratic candidate was “Any Competent Adult”, and they’d have taken “Giant Meteor” if they couldn’t get that. That did eliminate a few Democrats (Marianne Williamson, for instance, and maybe Tulsi Gabbard), they’d have accepted Bernie if they’d had to, they’d have run Hillary again if they’d thought that would work, they’d have been happier with somebody neutral like Biden or Amy Klobuchar than with somebody who stands out like Harris or some of the lefties, but there’s only been one issue, which is to get rid of the evil insane clown who’s been running the country.

            And yeah, if Harris does a good job, she could well beat Trump or Some Other Republican in 2024, or somebody new may be more popular by then. (And as a Californian who disliked Harris The Bad Cop before she got the Senate seat, I’d prefer somebody else, but Harris could easily throw half the Trump Organization in jail in six months, after they rebuild the Justice Dept.)

      3. The DNC deceived the American public.

      4. No, short of Biden calling Angela Merkel “Margaret Thatcher” because he thought he was back in 1985, he’d likely be gone after the mid-terms if he does end up taking the seat. The DNC had to use him as a trojan horse for Hillary’s successor because Harris simply wasn’t popular with the Dem base, as Tulsi showed when she reminded everyone how jail-happy Kamala was.

        The Dems will lose the House and lose ground in the Senate in the mid-terms because the margin is simply too close to stave off the typical gains made by the opposing party. That will give the DNC the cover they need to invoke the 25th Amendment and get him out of there.

      5. Woodrow Wilson, post stroke, and—allegedly—the last two years of Reagan’s Second Term, disagree with you Ice.

        I have little doubt Biden can be mushroomed for two years, if that’s what’s needed to maximize control.

      6. Oh, nonsense, Trump’s “Sleepy Joe Biden’s too old and senile” is just his usual campaign strategy of trying to get you to disrespect his opponent so you’ll have to vote for him, with the added benefit that his VP is a Scary Black Woman. He had four years to put “Corrupt Hillary” in jail for something, anything, didn’t, because it wasn’t there.

        Joe’s in great shape, he can shove his foot in his mouth just as fast today as he’s done for the last 40 years.

    4. Your candidate got 1% of the vote. If you want “jojo” (a stupid name) to win, you have to do better.

      Further, asking a party of 48-49% to accept your ideology over you, a party of 1% to accept ours, is ridiculous. But it’s fine. It’s okay. You don’t have to vote for our candidate, but you do get to share in the misery of our opposition. Hope you got what you were looking for.

      1. Further, asking a party of 48-49% to accept your ideology over you, a party of 1% to accept ours, is ridiculous.

        You don’t have an ideology.

      2. If my candidate’s ideology is self-evidently superior, it’s not ridiculous to ask other people to come to their senses.

    5. But a JoJo administration would get us out of Syria and Afghanistan and Iraq!!!! A JoJo adminstration would cut spending! A JoJo administration would pardon all those in prison for victimless crimes!! A JoJo administration would work towards a society where people are free to live their own lives without government interference!!!

      Are you crazy?!?!?!

      1. She would not get most of those approved, because she would have little to no support in Congress.

        1. Better that someone at least try, rather than someone who openly mocks freedom.

        2. go read the late Harry Browne’s column on “the president’s first day in office”. The President can pardon anyone without Congress having a say. The President can bring troops home. The President can order the Justice Dept to crack down on governments at all levels abusing your civil rights. The President can veto spending bills.

      2. A JoJo administration would pardon people for immigration “crimes” and let kids out of cages. Even brown people.

        The old pre-Trump GOP had mixed feelings about that. Some, like Dubya Bush and the Koch Bros, would rather have cheap labor, but for the Kochs, immigration was the price they paid to get Trump in power so the GOP could cut corporate taxes (yay) and totally gut the EPA (boo) allowing coal companies to pollute everybody’s water.

  2. Latino voters for Trump have been getting a special amount of guff from Democrats.

    Yes, push them right, like you do for everyone, geniuses.

    1. It’s a religion now; if you are an apostate they only place for you is the outer darkness, where you must weep, wail, and gnash your teeth until you learn better. Then we can talk about letting you back in, thoroughly chastened and sufficiently contrite.

      1. BLM is coming for their supporters who don’t toe the line now.

        It’s really not that hard to understand how leftists operate. We only have 100 years of examples.

        But we’ll always have ‘peaceful protestors’ useful idiots.

        1. We only have 100 years of examples.

          Closer to 200. This shit goes all the way back to the French Revolution when the revolution started to eat its own before Louis XVI’s body had even reached room temperature.

    2. To be fair, I suspect all the Latinx voters voted correctly – – – – – – – – –
      (It is just those pesky independent minded voters who know first (or second) hand exactly what the democrat policies end up as)

      1. Can we stop with the Latino/Latinx meme that popped up after that data came out? We really don’t need to give legitimacy to the pretensions of neurotic white liberals.

        1. Pay attention.
          The point of the post was to show that the dems only got votes from the miniscule part of certain voters that believes in their intersectionalist bullshit.

  3. H̲o̲m̲e̲ ̲B̲a̲s̲i̲c̲ ̲J̲o̲b̲s̲….. ̲E̲v̲e̲r̲y̲b̲o̲d̲y̲ ̲c̲a̲n̲ ̲e̲a̲r̲n̲ ̲u̲p̲t̲o̲ ̲$1̲5̲k̲ ̲e̲v̲e̲r̲y̲ ̲m̲o̲n̲t̲h̲ ̲f̲r̲o̲m̲ ̲h̲o̲m̲e̲ ̲b̲y̲ ̲w̲o̲r̲k̲i̲n̲g̲ ̲o̲n̲l̲i̲n̲e̲. ̲I̲ ̲h̲a̲v̲e̲ ̲r̲e̲c̲e̲i̲v̲e̲d̲ ̲$1̲7̲2̲9̲4̲ ̲l̲a̲s̲t̲ ̲m̲o̲n̲t̲h̲ ̲b̲y̲ ̲d̲o̲i̲n̲g̲ ̲t̲h̲i̲s̲ ̲e̲a̲s̲y̲ ̲a̲n̲d̲ ̲s̲i̲m̲p̲l̲e̲ ̲j̲o̲b̲ ̲o̲n̲l̲i̲n̲e̲ ̲f̲r̲o̲m̲ ̲h̲o̲m̲e̲. ̲I̲t̲s̲ ̲a̲n̲ ̲e̲a̲s̲y̲ ̲a̲n̲d̲ ̲s̲i̲m̲p̲l̲e̲ ̲j̲o̲b̲ ̲t̲o̲ ̲d̲o̲ ̲o̲n̲l̲i̲n̲e̲ ̲a̲n̲d̲ ̲e̲v̲e̲n̲ ̲a̲ ̲l̲i̲t̲t̲l̲e̲ ̲c̲h̲i̲l̲d̲ ̲c̲a̲n̲ ̲d̲o̲ ̲t̲h̲i̲s̲ ̲j̲o̲b̲ ̲f̲r̲o̲m̲ ̲h̲o̲m̲e̲. ̲E̲v̲e̲r̲y̲b̲o̲d̲y̲ ̲c̲a̲n̲ ̲g̲e̲t̲ ̲t̲h̲i̲s̲ ̲j̲o̲b̲ ̲n̲o̲w̲ ̲b̲y̲ ̲j̲u̲s̲t̲ ̲c̲o̲p̲y̲ ̲t̲h̲i̲s̲ ̲s̲i̲t̲e̲ ̲i̲n̲ ̲b̲r̲o̲w̲s̲e̲r̲ ̲a̲n̲d̲ ̲t̲h̲e̲n̲ ̲f̲o̲l̲l̲o̲w̲ ̲i̲n̲s̲t̲r̲u̲c̲t̲i̲o̲n̲ ̲t̲o̲ ̲g̲e̲t̲ ̲s̲t̲a̲r̲t̲e̲d̲…….. ↠↠↠ Here is More information

  4. As of yesterday morning, Jorgensen was pulling nearly 1.6 million votes, with her vote total beating the spread between Biden and Trump in several vital states.

    “If only we’d done more to court those votes,” said no political party ever.

    1. Oh please, Fist. Big L libertarian votes are uncourtable. This guy was the most libertarian, if you define such as deregulating, tax cutting, and getting government to leave you alone, President of the last 40 years. Maybe more. It still wasn’t enough.

      Though he was an idiot to not deschedule weed.

      1. I wholeheartedly agree with your last sentence. I believe that would have sent him sailing into victory. I believe he would have gained votes without losing many, but what do I know.

        1. “I believe he would have gained votes without losing many, but what do I know.”

          The calculation, as I see it, is: Does legalizing weed piss off enough of my base that they stay home, versus bringing me new voters? (Provided they get off their ass and vote for me after I already did them a solid. And that the Democrats don’t simply promise to do it too, if elected.) I don’t know that legalizing weed would be a net addition to Trump’s votes, given that.

          Another effect is that legalizing weed would take the wind out of the sails of voters going to the polls to vote on State initiatives to legalize weed. Said voters likely break more Biden than Trump, and discouraging those voters is therefore good strategy.

          We’ll likely never know.

          1. Law enforcement backers could flock to Biden. I see that as the only danger.

          2. I don’t think it takes any wind out of those sails, because they’re concerned with their own state’s law, which would be in force regardless of the federal one. If anything, it might bring out a few more of them because then they’d know their effort would not be futile against the possibility of federal interference.

            1. Yep. If you phrase it correctly (as Ron Paul did), there’s a very powerful conservative argument for ending the federal war on drugs.

          3. I think Montana disproves your conclusion. Trump won by 15% points and Republicans swept the state level offices and federal offices for the first time in over a decade and weed legalization passed overwhelmingly. That says at least a significant number of Republicans also voted for legalized weed and it didn’t drive Democrats to the polls. Rocky Mountain West Conservatives are much closer to libertarians than most libertarians realize unless they live here.

            1. Yep, Montana Trump voters wouldn’t care. (FWIW, neither would I. I’m suggesting it, after all.)

              Can their views be universalized across the rest of Trump’s base? I’m not sure about that one.

              Roberta brings up a great point about dual sovereignty.

              1. State rights are a huge issue most Conservatives agree, at least in theory on. Yes it isn’t universal and at least some self labeled conservatives aren’t fans of state rights.

        2. Libertarians still wouldn’t vote for him, because libertarians tend to be narcissistic, short sighted assholes.
          You had a chance to vote for liberty and against tyranny.
          You chose tyranny.

          1. No, a choice between Biden and Trump is a choice between different kinds of tyranny. The only vote for liberty was a vote for Jo Jorgenson.

            1. This is what Libertarians actually believe.

              1. Libertarians are for Trump because he is the most Libertarian-ish President in over 100 years.

                He has done more to help Libertarian causes nationally than any LP politician in office.

                Libertarian voters from 2016 voted for someone this election and it likely was not Biden.

                1. Small-l libertarians are for Trump, if they’ve got an ounce of common sense and pragmatism in them. Apparently capital-L “Libertarians” would rather continue to cast their votes for the One True Libertarian from the gulag than make the rational choice for vastly better, if imperfect, results for liberty in the short term and use that as a stepping stone to build a coalition.

                  1. In Libertopia, all firing squads are circular. It helps enforce the NAP…

                  2. Enh. Maybe people will say that I got suckered by the (in retrospect absolutely atrocious) polls, but here in NM the spread was just too wide.

                    If it had looked even possible, I’d have taken a zofran, held my nose, and voted for Trump.

                    But the final results back my decision to vote third party up. Even if everyone who voted for *any* third party candidate in this state had voted for Trump instead (and I mean even the folks who voted Green or the person running as a no show Socialist) Biden *still” would have been up by 60k votes. It’s basically the same story as California, you might as well go ahead and vote third party, because the Democrats are winning no matter what.

                    Which is very disappointing, but is apparently what it is. :-\

                    1. Damnit, that was supposed to be “no shit Socialist”. I.e.: people who were absolutely never going to vote for Trump, even if the Dem candidate had been the 100% verified Lord of Darkness Satan himself.

                      Point being, it was just too big of a gap to fill. Especially with Mikey Bloomberg buying races in our very poor state. It makes it remarkably easy to twist the races here.

              2. Dogma is a hell of a drug

        3. He could have just not been an overt asshole, and he’d have Arizona and Omaha.

          How hard is it to be gracious to a dead man, and not pick a fight with a Republican Senator in Nebraska?

          1. A Trump with exactly the same policies and actions, but without the puerile attitudes, would have sailed to victory. But that same kinder and polite Trump would have lost most of his cheering squad, who only cheers him on because they’re puerile themselves and think flinging poo is funny.

            1. Yes, look how easily a kind and polite Mitt Romney sailed to victory.

            2. I seriously don’t know where this idea is coming from that “being nice” would have increased Trump’s vote share. Ever since 2006, the Republicans have won far more often pushing populism rather than neocon corporatism. It’s gotten to the point that the polls are undercounting Republican voters by orders of magnitude and their credibility is completely shot now.

              You want to know why the Republican base likes Trump? Look at what he’s doing right now with filing lawsuits in the battleground states, which all coincidentally had several-hour counting/reporting stoppages while states with far larger populations finished their counts before midnight. You really think McCain or Romney would have bothered disputing things if they though they were getting ratfucked like that? The whole reason Trump is so popular with the base is rooted in the very fact that he actually bothers pushing back against the left-liberal establishment. He likely gained minority voters because those cultures don’t consider shit-talking your opponents to be a sin. The only demographic that don’t actually like it are suburban wine moms who prefer their men neutered.

              1. Amen to all of that.

              2. I don’t disagree with Trump fighting, I just wish he was more succinct and a little less abrasive. You can fight back and push back without being an asshole. You don’t have to be nice, but you don’t have to be an asshole either. There is a middle ground.

                1. Expecting him to be anything other than who he was for the last 50 years of being in the public spotlight is probably a bit naive.

                  1. I know that doesn’t mean I couldn’t wish he were.

                2. The left calls you an uneducated racist/homophobe/omni-ist who shouldn’t have a right to speak or defend yourself.
                  McCain betrayed all his loyal constituents time and again.
                  Being an dick in response to that may be the only option.

                  1. McCain was an asshole also, but not sure saying anything about him after he was dead is necessary.

              3. Being nice is a red Herring because Democrats are fucking assholes who yell at people trying to dine at a restaurant.

                yet Democrats got 70M “votes”.

                Fuck that. Democrats started the first Civil War and they started Civil War 2.0

              4. > Ever since 2006, the Republicans have won far more often pushing populism rather than neocon corporatism.

                A) There are more than just those two things.

                B) You can have populism without needing an asshole who mocks disabled veterans and brags about bragging pussies.

                1. A) There are more than just those two things.

                  No, not really.

                  B) You can have populism without needing an asshole who mocks disabled veterans and brags about bragging pussies.

                  The result in 2016 says otherwise. Trump ragged on McCain during the primary and his approval with Republicans went up.

                  Populists are almost always assholes by definition because they’re pushing back against an establishment political system. You don’t shake up something like that by being polite because no one views you as a threat when you’re nice. It’s been that way through most of human history, as well as this nation’s. This ain’t fucking Roadhouse.

          2. That brazenness was part of his appeal to many, but I suspect he could have dialed it back and come out ahead, yes. That he couldn’t be handled was political gold until it wasn’t.

            1. Some people wanted Trump to coddle hysterical Americans.

              I think Trump should have told Americans to stop being hysterical about the Flu but that was not the right choice politically.

          3. Isn’t it just as childish to vote for the guy who will raise your taxes (old people in AZ tend to have more money) or send your kids to die in Syria (NE) just because orange man was a crass asshole?

      2. I am super interested in what, as a libertarian, Trump did that could possibly have convinced me to vote for him.

        Where was the deregulation? All I remember was a partial rollback of Dodd-Frank, which, while good, is hardly worth praising Trump as a deregulator.

        Tax cuts are meaningless if they are not permanent. In the long-term Trump has done far more to increase taxes than to decrease them.

        I would love government to leave me alone, but I don’t think the man who called freedom of speech “foolish” is the one who I can trust to be a president that will accomplish this.

        1. I said this below–he vetoed the Patriot Act into oblivion. The most landmark piece of legislation in the last 20 years, and it died out in such ignominy that its demise went COMPLETELY uncovered by the media when it happened. Hell, I didn’t even know about it until someone I saw online a couple days ago point it out.

          And I say this as someone who didn’t actually vote for the guy (mainly because I don’t vote).

          Tax cuts are meaningless if they are not permanent.

          No tax cut is permanent because it’s legislated. You want a 0% tax rate, tell your Congressional representatives to propose a Constitutional amendment to repeal the 16th. Good luck getting that to stick.

          1. In what world do you live where the Patriot Act no longer exists? Trump signed renewals to the Patriot Act while demanding it be expanded to give him increased authority. I understand why some people who cheer on the eternal growth of executive power might like Trump for this, but not a libertarian.

            The 2017 Tax Cuts consciously enacted a temporary tax cut to be eliminated and reversed after Trump leaves office. Trump consciously increased the debt burdens of the federal government, exposing the future to even larger tax liabilities. One cannot pretend that Trump has an ideological tendency toward lower taxes.

            1. In what world do you live where the Patriot Act no longer exists?

              That response is a great example of how this flew under everyone’s radar:

              In November 2019, the renewal of the Patriot Act was included in the stop-gap legislation[11] The expired provisions required renewal by March 15, 2020.[12] The Senate passed a 77-day extension in March 2020, but the House of Representatives did not pass the legislation before departing for recess on March 27, 2020.[13][14][15][16]

              1. Striking out on piece of the Patriot Act is not the same thing as “he vetoed the Patriot Act into oblivion.” Most of the law is still in the books, with the support of Trump. There is no libertarian case to be made for Trump in relation to the Patriot Act.

                Also from Wikipedia, the same article from which you posted:
                The Trump administration delivered a letter to Congress in August 2019 urging them to make permanent three surveillance provisions of the Patriot Act. The provisions included section 215, which enables domestic call-record collection as well as the collection of other types of business records.[255]

                1. Yes, believe the NYT reporting from OUTGOING Dan Coats writing a letter as to what Trump wanted instead of actually what happened.


                2. Most of the law is still in the books, with the support of Trump.

                  Citation needed.

                3. The Trump administration delivered a letter to Congress in August 2019

                  What happened seven months later, dummy?

        2. Remember “rescind 2 for every new 1”, and agencies reported they were doing much better than even that? If you’re an expert on some federally-regulated field, surely you’d know about these changes.

          My understanding is that they also derailed some big energy and water regulations that were coming down the pipe (heh). He got FDA finally moving on sunscreen rules, and what had to be moved to get the Covid-19 vaccines out this quickly was an enormous amount of red tape.

          Tax cuts are never permanent, as long as a legislature is allowed to spend. You’re asking for the impossible there.

          What Trump said was that some people were foolish regarding free speech issues. He didn’t say freedom of speech was foolish.

          1. How about something a little more substantial? Anyone can clean up legal jargon and call it “rescinding a regulation.” I started the list for you, the deregulation of Dodd-Frank. Can you build on this list? What else has been deregulated?

            Sure, he canceled and repealed a few late-term Obama-era executive orders. These are no-effort examples that have had little to no impact on a grand scale. Anyone can take some executive orders and bureaucratic resolutions of an unpopular predecessor and reverse them. Again, was anything of substance accomplished? Anything that might actually make Americans feel that the regulatory state is decreasing in its burden rather than increasing or staying the same?

            1. 1. NO new wars.
              2. Deregulation.
              3. Cut federal enforcement of war on drugs.
              4. Checked Socialist expansion politically and in government.
              5. Shutdown the federal government for the longest in US history.
              6. Control US borders and limit illegals.
              7. Put America in a better position internationally so countries dont take advantage of bilateral trade with the USA.
              8. Tax cuts for Americans and businesses.
              9. Simply tax code.
              10 Caused RINOs to expose themselves when they were taking the GOP toward helping the Democrats.

            2. Bring up specifics and they’ll say you’re cherry-picking. Bring up actual quantitative data on number of regs, they say they want specific cases. And I mentioned sunscreen and vaccine rules, didn’t I? I’m not intimately familiar with the energy and water sectors, so I can refer to them only generally.

              You want impact on a grand scale? Call Mr. Superman. You won’t find him in the telephone book, only in a comic book. You can’t elect anyone with impact on a grand scale; that would make hir unelectable.

              1. “rescind 2 for every new 1” is barely quantitative data. If he stopped some late-term Obama regulations from going into effect, that is fine, it is a good thing. But it does not justify the legacy of deregulation that some here want to assign to Trump. If we actually had some deregulation that would be excellent, but there seems to be no signs that this actually ever occurred.

                1. There’s a graph in the article linked below. Turns out to be a lot better than 2 for 1, but agency heads were already saying that.

                  1. I am looking through the article but don’t see the substance. What impact has come from these efforts? Were they meaningful deregulations or was it simply house cleaning? If actual tangible benefits have come from this deregulation, why aren’t we hearing about the effects? People don’t brag about quantity if they can prove their quality.

                    Let’s try this. In 2017 the Atlantic published an article listed 18 federal agencies that Trump wanted to cut. Only one of those 18 have been successfully dissolved. That is about the batting average of a relief pitcher.


              2. Here’s one article I just found and skimmed:
                It says what I already knew: that it’s easier to stop new regulations than get rid of old ones; that there’s legal pushback against major deregulation; and that once an agency has justified a regulation, that’s put evidence in the books for the value of that regulation, which will be hard to rebut against a legal challenge in court. I remember that last bit happening in the 1980s when the Reagan administration tried to eliminate passive restraint rules for automobiles; such rescission was ruled arbitrary and capricious.

                So where Trump was legally allowed to proceed, he did great. Where he faced resistance, no other president (e.g. Jo Jorgenson) could’ve done better. It would take Congress to repeal the enabling statutes.

                1. And he disappeared instead of clicking your link.

                  1. What a surprise.

                  2. Did you read the link yourself? As I posted before, I am failing to detect anything in the article that is supposed to be attractive enough to convince libertarians to vote for Trump on the basis of deregulation. I would love to see some deregulation from any president, unfortunately there does not seem to be anything of substance. I am open to the possibility that I missed something though. News travels fast these days.

        3. There was the end to Net Neutrality.

          Can you believe we still have the internet?!

  5. Just so we are clear Jo Jorgensen received 60,022 votes in Georgia. Biden is currently behind 31,306. How’s that vote for your “conscience” feeling now ????

    Not understanding how a conscience works is, I guess, helpful in The Resistance.

  6. If Libertarian cannot be gotten by the major parties, why keep mentioning when the Libertarian vote covers the spread between the major parties? If former is true, the latter does not matter. Reason is sending mixed messages here.

    1. Because Reason, and a lot of other libertarians, are just as guilty of being mired in the team sport aspect of politics?

    2. it is the fallback to grow the cause of liberty. first of all, 3.4% versus 1.1% says that not all our votes are reliable big L votes. second, even if our votes were unattainable, i don’t want them to know that. i want them to pay attention to the ideas of limited government, fiscal responsibility and personal freedom….. i want them to try to take our votes. even if they can’t, it will move us all in the right direction if they try.

      1. You’ve accomplished so much in 5 decades

        1. gay marriage, the slow death of the drug war, criminal justice reform becoming a major issue, more people wanting to fix our immigration to allow the free movement of people, brewing your own beer legal in all states (believe it or not, it wasn’t until 7yrs ago.)…… yeah…. yeah we have. not nearly as much as we would like, but libertarian goals that were once considered fringe have come to pass or at least become mainstream considerations.

          1. And if you look at last night, it was a victory for a lot of libertarian ideas.

          2. Lol

            Cool. I’m gonna take credit for the sun rising today!

      2. Yeah from what I’m seeing, 2/3 libertarians didn’t even stick with the party, so wtf is this even about?

        1. they bought into the fear campaign. they demonstrated that their votes were winnable…… just not for the right reasons…

  7. It’s almost as if libertarians are tired of bailing out the GOP and getting shit on in return


  8. Libertarians are just democrats anyway.

    1. Less sweet, just as salty.

    2. Except when they’re Republicans, if you ask a Democrat.

    3. Libertarians are NOT Democrats.

      No Libertarian can excuse Democrats wanting Socialism and being the Party of slavery.

  9. Stop telling us all to VOTE and then being pissed at the result… idk what to tell you.

    If we had just not voted, the result would have been the same so chill.

    As I mused earlier, I believe all those pleas to simply vote were not that but instead demands to vote Biden.

    1. Any political organization that says “get out and vote” means “get out and vote for our candidates.”

      1. Networks like Smithsonian Channel were plastering the screen with seemingly benign vote messages.

        1. And the NFL.
          All of Corporate America was doing it.
          The political must be personal, and the personal must be political.

  10. Fucking spoilers. Always gumming things up.

  11. Prop 16 was a racist proposal to allow ‘affirmative action’ again; that slimy, lefty arrangement which assumes people of certain races are not competent to compete for jobs or school placement. Fortunately, the CA voters said ‘up yours’.

    “Prop. 16: Why California voters refused to lift affirmative action ban”
    ““Both in California and across the country, we’re not witnessing a repudiation of Trumpism that we’d like to see,” said Vincent Pan, executive director of Chinese for Affirmative Action and a co-chair of the campaign…”

    Yep, that’s a quote from a piece of paper with printing on it which claims to be a ‘newspaper’.
    Damn that Trump; made CA voters reject institutional racism!

    1. Funny since Ca got ride of Affirmative action long before Trump was elected. maybe he time travels, at least in the minds of those inflicted with TDS

    2. I think the Chinese director should go back to mainland China and convince the CCP to begin affirmative action for the uurganis

  12. Not only did Biden win, he actually won a stunning landslide even more impressive than Ronald Reagan’s in 1980. Michelle Goldberg explains:

    If Biden ends up winning with 52 percent of the popular vote, he’ll have a historic mandate. Ronald Reagan’s total in 1980 was 50.7.

    Historic. Mandate.

    Voters have sent a clear message: we want Biden to expand the Supreme Court, liberate Drumpf’s concentration camps, and get tough with Russia.


    1. OBL, please never link to anything from that stupid yenta ever again!

    2. if he had a mandate, it would not take 3 days to count enough ballots to be sure. democrats nominated him because he was the most moderate….. please let him be moderate…. please do not push more extremist and partisan actions to piss as many people off as possible and continue the toxic political climate. stacking the court would tear this country apart.

    3. Reagan ran against 2 strong third part candidates (John Anderson and Ed Clark) who together took 7.7 percent of the vote.

  13. So I guess the frickety-frick fracking issue fizzled out for fricken Pennsylvania if it flippantly goes Blue?

    1. The vote printing machines in Philadelphia are indifferent to people who stand to lose their fracking jobs?

    2. Western PA voters soundly rejected Trump, the GOP expanded their majorities in the PA Senate and House, the GOP is now winning all three statewide offices (that Ds had controlled), and Republicans appear to have gained two PA Congressional seats.

      If Biden wins in PA, it will be due to ballot stuffing and fraudulent vote counting by Democrats in Philly and Pittsburgh (who haven’t allowed Republicans to even witness the vote counts).

      1. Correction, Western PA voters soundly rejected Biden/Harris.

      2. So, the Ds are stuffing ballots for Biden, but didn’t bother to check the other D candidates? They just left them blank?

        1. Yes. Ballot stuffing works by filling in the person you want to win and ignoring everything else, you get more ballots done that way

          1. That they’re unconcerned with taking the senate and care only about ousting Trump should scare you.
            And anyone comforted by the prospect of the senate being liberty’s last bastion of defense.

  14. It looks like the Senate will stay controlled by Republicans, which has the benefit of hindering a potential President Biden’s ability to get things done.


    1. In case you missed it, the answer is yes.

    2. If it gets to 52-48 in favor of the Republicans I suspect that the Dems can count on Collins and Romney to cross over for votes on things like whether or not to bail out the California and Illinois state employee pension funds.

      1. 49-48 Republicans now. Perdue’s has a 2.3 lead with, ostensibly 2 percent of the vote left to call. Yet he hasn’t been projected to win, yet.

        Keep on counting, counting, counting.

        1. The thing with Perdue is that in Georgia, you have to get at least 50% of the vote. If no one does, there is a runoff election. Perdue is sitting right around 50%, which is why they can’t call it yet. If he drops under 50%, there will be a runoff.

          1. I’m sure there will be no fraud in that one either.

            Would the hypothetical runoff be held at the same time as the other GA Senate race?

          2. There is a LP running for Senate.

            There is already a runoff for the other Georgia US Senate seat in January 2021. They will just tack on Perdue for that runoff election.

      2. And Murkowski

      3. Romney won’t cross the line after Utah went so strongly for Trump. He has to run in 2 years and he isn’t popular right now because of his previous anti-Trump stances. If he announces he isn’t seeking re-election then I would agree with you, but if he doesn’t he had to fend off a primary challenge. Utah voters would be pissed if he crosses party lines on court packing. Also, don’t forget the filibuster, two or three Republican votes isn’t enough, except for judges and cabinet appointments, for any legislation you need 12 Republicans. The biggest win is that Schumer can’t end the filibuster.

        1. Also, Schumer has to keep democratic senators like Tester from Trump states in line. Tester just watched Montana soundly reject Democrats across the board. He saw Bullock get thumped and Biden losing by 15% points. He just watched Montana vote for the first Republican governor in 16 years by a commanding margin. He isn’t going to be all fired up to vote for uber progressive policies.

          1. The election results in Montana showed that Missoula and Gallatin county aren’t enough to overcome the rest of the state.

            1. But he isn’t up for re-election until 2024, so maybe he might think he could memory hole any votes early in the next administration. Maybe.

          2. 2022 doesn’t have any Democratic senators in Red states but does likely have two in purple states (one in Nevada and probably one in Arizona).

          3. “He just watched Montana vote for the first Republican governor in 16 years by a commanding margin. He isn’t going to be all fired up to vote for uber progressive policies.”

            Then surely it will be easy to point out the other times Tester broke ranks with his Democratic brethren. Or is this a recent change of heart you are proposing he’s had?

            1. He has broken ranks but not often. Most often he chooses to abstain. Also, he has always been comfortable with Montana’s history of splitting the ticket, but that may very well be over.

              1. For instance Montana voted fairly strongly for Trump in 2016 (his victory Tuesday was even larger than in 2016 BTW) but voted for Tester and Bullock. Tuesday the voters gave Trump even larger support and voted down Bullock and voted down the Democratic Governors candidate in favor of the guy they rejected in 2016.

  15. Real libertarians voted for Trump because he’s been the most libertarian president of our lifetime, and because Biden is a senile placeholder for left winger Harris.

    ENB and her fellow liberaltarians at Reason demonized Trump for four years and relentlessly campaigned for Biden since the spring (by disingenuously portraying themselves as libertarians).

    1. Had Trump simply removed cannabis as a Schedule 1
      Drug (i.e. legalized weed at the federal level), which I urged him to do for the past four years, he’d have won reelection by a landslide, and would have become a rock star among libertarians.

      1. No he wouldn’t. Trump made peace all over the world, didn’t get us into any new wars and made great progress in getting us out of the wars we are in. And Libertarians didn’t give a fuck or give him any credit. Why would they give him credit for legalizing pot when they didn’t give him credit for that?

        1. Yes.
          Trump could cure cancer and the brain-dead TDS victims would claim it was the beginning of a new disease.

        2. Ah if only Trump had descheduled marijuana: I can imagine the DNC PR organiz….I mean news media, the news media’s headlines now:
          “Trump makes marijuana double illegal”
          “Russian puppet Trump deschedules marijuana in plot to hurt Black BIPOCs or something”

      2. “You need to legalize weed!”
        “I don’t even know who you are.”

        1. Haha

          “Old man yells at cloud”

    2. Not starting wars accomplished two things for libertarians.

      One, no wars.

      Two, no spending on wars.

      How they can’t see the positive in this since it achieves two major principles in not starting was and cutting spending is interesting if not unfortunate.

      They indirectly reject his by supporting Biden.

    3. i think you might need to read the article again…. you clearly are not getting it.

    4. A libertarian president would not say that Article 2 allows him to do whatever he wants.

  16. Hey ENB, roundup suggestion: maybe instead of quoting the dumpster fire that is Twitter you could just quote the commenters here instead ?

    1. I recommend Ken and Cyto, if so.

      Avoid Nardz unless you want to go through that woodchipper Federal subpoena thing again.

        1. Dude, you glowpost like nobody else here. Not saying you’re wrong mind, just that I can’t see ENB or anyone else on Reason’s staff quoting you in print.

          1. I think they have quoted fist in a podcast or 2

          2. I know.

            Ken and cyto are great.
            So are you, red rocks, jesseeaz, and overt (among others).

            I believe in speaking directly. People are free to take it as they wish.
            We are on the precipice of totalitarianism here.

            1. As for Reason writers, they are complete trash and deserve no respect whatsoever.
              Goebbels would appreciate their efforts though.

            2. “We are on the precipice of totalitarianism here.”

              As I wrote, I’m not saying you’re wrong.

              I am saying Reason isn’t going to start quoting someone who tells the other posters that their lives are meaningless, and that those other posters are going to catch a bullet in the future.

              (Even if it may be true… But then, every loudmouth is at risk if that starts happening. Myself included.)

              1. Ah, right – you’re talking in the context of Reason quoting commenters.
                My bad. Overlooked that.

                But in all honesty, they wouldn’t quote cyto or you or red rocks or Ken either (maybe ken, selectively).
                They covered up the Biden corruption. They’re covering up the voter fraud. They covered up critical race theory’s marxist takeover of Corporate America.
                Reason is a shill for the left, and nothing more.

      1. Wow…I did not make the list of quote-able commenters. Sigh.

        1. I didn’t make Hihn’s troll list either. LOL at Red making it, twice.

          It happens.

          1. STILL one of my proudest accomplishments.

            …which says some very sad things about my life.

            1. No, that was me.

    2. She could also get it on the site before the crack of noon.

    3. She hates us.

      1. We must be doing something right then.

    4. “Everything is so terrible and unfair!!!!!!” tm is recognized the world over as an innovative leader in efficient prog mocking.

      You heard it here.


    And just like that, they send the national guard to Portland. They let antifa riot for over four months and refused to call out the National Guard or ask the feds for any assistance. The day after the election, they call out the guard and put and end to it.

    The government of Portland and Oregon allowed rioting and violence for political purposes. They were in league with Antifa and allowed the riots and all of the harm they created to occur because they thought it would help them in the election.

    Oddly ENB isn’t screaming about this. Trump calls in some federal agents to keep them from burning down the federal court house and ENB and reason are all about the dark night of fascism falling on America. Now after the election the state and city literally bring in the army and not a fucking word.

    I can understand being a lying hack for gay marriage and porn. But what has to be wrong with you to be a lying hack for government sanctioned political violence, which all the riots in Portland were?

    1. Stand down, journalists.

    2. Damn, didn’t expect it to be this blatant.

    3. “The government of Portland and Oregon allowed rioting and violence for political purposes. They were in league with Antifa and allowed the riots and all of the harm they created to occur because they thought it would help them in the election.”

      Sure looks like it did, didn’t it? Think anything will be done about it?

      1. Fuck no. You notice any of our usual leftist trolls saying anything about it? Or the media? You would think they would get tired of being lied to and repeating those lies. But I guess to be a Democrat means lying.

        1. I roared when I read Brown was doing that. Imagine living in Portland these last few months, maybe having your property or your person harmed, and seeing that, like how the Good Witch told Dorothy, “You had the power to end this all along!”

          1. Why didn’t he just get on TV and tell the people of Portland “fuck you”? It would have been no less insulting and would at least had the virtue of being honest.

    4. “I can understand being a lying hack for gay marriage and porn. But what has to be wrong with you to be a lying hack for government sanctioned political violence, which all the riots in Portland were?”

      Oh, and to answer this question: Because this is the best paying job she can get, and being complicit in downplaying Leftist violence is what her employers want her to write. Again, because it helps get rid of that orange-hued asshole that was screwing up her employer’s good thing they had going with China, and with lowering US wages.

    5. And Portland re-elected Wheeler.

      No sympathy and couldn’t care less. Like New Zealanders re-electing that nut job.

      They chose and made their beds. Nothing to help or save if that’s what they want.

      1. The alternative to Wheeler was the pro antifa chick. You knew Wheeler would do this as soon as the election was over.

        1. Jesus Portlandia is whacked if those were the choices. It actually furthers my claim let it go. Sometimes you just have to let things go.

          The continent is splitting along values lines. I don’t want no part of the sort of people who think and vote this way.

          I view them with great suspicion. Plus they’re just plain crazy.

        2. Oregon Governor sent in national Guard to Portland.

      2. A pro-antifa, pro-Mao, and pro-Che candidate won 41% of Portland votes and was defeated by 5%.

    6. I feel like the few remaining bits of wool have been pulled from my eyes

    7. A bunch of the neurotic commie shitheads in Denver were carrying a banner last night that said “Death to fascism and the liberalism that enables it.” People like this are too insane to be salvageable.

      Also, like I pointed out yesterday, this is the next step in the Color Revolution playbook. That’s why a bunch of mass-coordinated protests popped up in deep blue cities yesterday, all parroting the same slogan and talking points.

      1. Also, bringing in the National Guard doesn’t really mean shit unless they were given loaded magazines in the event that things got spicy. A gun without ammunition is just a club.

        1. A club for hordes of Antifa zombies you mean to use on the NG.

      2. “That’s why a bunch of mass-coordinated protests popped up in deep blue cities yesterday, all parroting the same slogan and talking points.”

        However could that have happened?

        1. Yeah, it’s a real fucking mystery.

  18. Biden needs only a few more electoral votes for the presidential race to be called in his favor.

    If it’s one thing Democrats excel at, it’s finding votes.

    1. +138,000

      1. but only 91% of them were for Biden

  19. The Trump campaign is trying desperately to still turn this in their favor…

    That’s odd.

  20. A Chris Hayes thread reminds Democrats that no one owes them or anyone else votes…

    Well, I mean, they’ve probably paid for a number of them, so those ones are kind of owed.

    1. How do the dead pay debts?

      1. Same way they have to pay taxes?

    2. What’s the going per-vote rate on ballot-stuffing these days?

    3. That’s why the dems remove the green party from the ballot

  21. If Democrats/Republicans are so upset about not getting Libertarian votes, the simplest solution is to approve ranked choice voting…
    …unfortunately that option lost twice on Tuesday.


    So those of you who were on here yesterday claiming there was no fraud and Trump saying there is just refusing to accept responsibility for losing the election, please explain why Michigan and Wisconsin election officials refuse to even talk about or try to explain the sudden appearance of 100s of thousands of mail in votes all for Joe Biden in the middle of the night after it appeared Trump was going to win those states.

    I would love to hear your innocent explanation for all of this and your explanation for why the election officials in those states refuse to give this explanation and are instead saying FYTIW.

    1. Statistical anomaly?
      Blatant cheating?
      Organized, criminal, election manipulation?
      Riot trolling?
      Giving the unregistered campaign contributors disguised as ‘social media’ and ‘press’ time to work more propaganda magic?

      Which one does not belong in this list?

      1. It would be a statistical anomaly if it wasn’t the other 4.

    2. Why was it only “swing” states that had these mysterious pauses in counting, hmm?
      Well, Wisconsin turnout is over 90%.
      Just inventing votes for Biden wasn’t enough – they also needed to figure out when to stop counting Trump votes so as not to finish with 150% of registered voters participating.

      Despite the idiocy of Jojo and libertarians, they would’ve only made the left’s fraud harder, not stopped it.
      But yall seem perfectly fine with living in denial and pretending that letting the left steal the election from the only candidate who’s ever done anything to oppose the system you claim to hate is no biggie, so carry on (while you still can) I guess.
      Libertarians for the New Normal!

      1. Wisconsin turnout was really 90% of registered voters? What was their turnout for the last couple presidential elections, in comparison? This is ALL kinds of corrupt if they went from national average of 60-65% to 90%.

        I’d be curious if MI and PA are seeing the same thing.

        1. They are 5 standard deviations above the mean for 2020

      2. I think I love this comment almost as much as my wife.

      3. >>the only candidate who’s ever done anything to oppose the system you claim to hate


    3. I never said there wasn’t fraud I said crying it was stolen before you have evidence was the wrong move. I also support investigations and court challenges to have access to review the votes, but I think crying it was stolen before you have solid evidence is just playing into progressive’s hands. I also think anyone saying “it is all over if we don’t win’ are giving up.

      1. We’ve had evidence since at least Tuesday morning (Philly poll shenanigans)

        1. You’ve had suppositions, not evidence.

          1. So videos are supposition?
            They had DNC hanging on the walls of polling locations with instructions of who to vote for.
            They have poll workers wearing Biden apparel and denying entry to poll watchers.
            There were people showing up to vote who were told they’d already voted or weren’t registered, despite their protestations otherwise.
            There’s more too.

      2. If he/we didn’t jump on this immediately, the press declares in unison that Biden wins and its a fait accompli.
        Instead, now it’s a fight.
        Just look at what FoxNews did with Arizona particularly, but also all the states they called immediately for Biden while waiting as long as possible to call states for Trump. Hell, they called VA for Biden at like 8 pm while showing Trump with a 56-36 advantage for hours.

        1. Jumping on and saying you see irregularities and pointing 9ut those irregularities is one thing, saying it was stolen is another thing.


    There were 3,684,726 registered voters in Wisconsin going into Election day. The total votes recorded in Wisconsin were 3,240,549. That would give Wisconsin a turnout of 88%. According to Ballotpedia, no American state in the period 2002-2018 has ever achieved a turnout rate of 80% or higher. For purposes of comparison, in 2016 Wisconsin had a 67 percent turnout rate. If you are credulous, you can believe that 21% more Wisconsinites voted this year, compared with the red-hot election of four years ago, and 248,000 more Wisconsinites turned out to vote for the charismatic Joe Biden this year than voted for Hillary Clinton four years ago.

    seven Democratic wards in Milwaukee reported more votes than registered voters, while 90 Milwaukee wards reported turnouts of more than 90%. Altogether, the City of Milwaukee reported a “record turnout of 84 percent.” That includes, of course, registered voters who have died, moved elsewhere, and so on.

    Some of those Biden votes, according to the Gateway Pundit and the sources it links to, showed up suddenly in the middle of the night.

    Who wants to defend this? I guess the election was “mostly honest”.

    1. ‘You just don’t understand same day registration bro.’

      Remember, the important thing here is not to claim that any fraud happened, unless you have proof. “Proof” defined as, a cackling confession on video while twirling the ends of their mustache, I guess. Wouldn’t want to look like an asshole or anything.

      I really hope—in the face of everything I’ve seen and known about the court system—that the courts can untangle some of this overt fraud and punish some of the perpetrators.

      1. It has to if you want to maintain whatever integrity is left in the system. I stopped watching sports and barely watch any shows now. My next stop is to ignore politics altogether. It’s not fun or cute anymore if there indeed was fraud and nothing is done about it.

        Then America really becomes no different than ‘countries’ run by tin-pot dictators. It becomes Rome post-Augustus at that point.

        It will carry on but with no soul, legitimacy or beacon on the hill.

        1. The establishment left is starting to compare Trump to Caesar now. I don’t think they realize that the reason Caesar became popular in the first place was because the Senate had devolved into corrupt degeneracy and nest-feathering, while Caesar flanked them and actually went down in the Aventine slums to appeal to the lumpenproles there.

          1. 100%.

          2. There are some parallels.
            They don’t understand that what the traitors did to Caesar led directly to Antony and Octavian.
            Those two had learned that mercy is what got Caesar killed.
            So they unleashed bloodbaths.

            1. “They don’t understand that what the traitors did to Caesar led directly to Antony and Octavian.”

              Yeah. Been saying here for awhile that Trump isn’t the big meany dictator people should be scared of: it’s the ruthless next guy that Flyover Land demands. That next guy may very well be a no-shit caudillo, instead of someone who is rude on Twitter. Along with that change is likely going to be some social changes 180 degrees out from secular humanism.

              1. There is something to wondering, if he actually manages to win, whether he’d go full Monkey considering what’s happened in the last four years.

                If I’m part of the intel community, I’d be sweating bullets about not just my job, but whether my whole office would even exist within a year. If I’m Facebook or Twitter, I’m wondering if my Section 230 protections are going to get removed and I get cornholed for in-kind political contributions. If I’m Google, I’m wondering if I’ll get slammed with an antitrust action for my domination of the online ad market, along with tweaking algorithms to suppress non-establishment political narratives. If I’m in the mainstream media, like ABC or NBC, I’m wondering if my company will get hit with the same (because these news orgs are typically part of giant mass media/entertainment conglomerates), along with the DoJ crawling up my asshole with investigations of election interference and sedition through direct collusion with the Democratic party politicians and operatives, along with the intel community. If I’m the leaders of blue states/cities, I know the chances of getting that bailout I need just went in the toilet. If I’m the MIC, I’m wondering if we’ll even be in the Middle East in four years. And that’s just scratching the surface.

                1. “There is something to wondering, if he actually manages to win, whether he’d go full Monkey considering what’s happened in the last four years.”

                  I’d think he has to. He has to know that he, unlike every other former President no matter how obnoxious they were, is going to get the Pinochet-in-Spain treatment. If only to discourage anyone else from screwing with Imperial Washington.

    2. This is insane. I’m curious if any other states had similar increases in total votes. PA or MI or GA?

      1. We’re seeing the US become a banana republic right before our eyes if this type of blatant fraud is allowed to stand. I would hope some honest, American loving Democrats would speak up but I fear that their TDS is too strong.

        1. No, Americans can’t count on anyone but the deplorables now.
          They need to mobilize.
          Because if the courts don’t do the right thing, the nation is lost to either totalitarianism or civil war.

    3. Not defending, please investigate but don’t scream fraud until you have evidence to present for sure. Yes raise questions, but don’t scream stolen, until you can prove it. Fight but fight back smart. Screaming it was stolen in the middle of the night election night just plays into the lefts hands.

      1. Reports of fraud and misdeeds were coming out an hour after the polls opened. Lots of them.

        1. Point them out, make people see them. I disagree with Reason poo-pooing legitimate complaints of fraud. I also disagree with screaming fraud/stolen elections. Mainly because I think it plays into the leftist narratives v

        2. Challenge it in court, investigate. Don’t give up but also focus on how you stop it in the future if you don’t win. Also, fight it smartly.

  24. Democrats Have Been Denying Trump The Presidency Ever Since His First Victory

    Trump is gonna challenge mail-in ballots as unconstitutional changes to election law by Democrat Governors when only state Legislatures are allowed to change election laws.

  25. You Are Not Entitled to Libertarian Votes

    No, no, no. All votes “belong” to our rightful rulers and any vote for any 3rd party candidate is stealing that vote from your divinely chosen King. And all thieves shall be punished accordingly.

    1. Well, you’ll likely get those rulers you demanded.

    2. unreason forgets what their position was in 2016 when Hillary lost partly because actual Libertarians would not vote for her.

    3. The Democrats seem to believe that more than Republicans since they actually sued to get the Green Party removed from the ballots in a number of states. Didn’t see the Republicans do the same for the LP.

      1. “Didn’t see the Republicans do the same for the LP.”

        But why would they? I thought Libertarian Party voters wouldn’t vote for Republicans? That it was silly to think they were created as a way to siphon off liberty-minded Republican voters.

        1. Good question. Republicans whine about third party votes, Democrats actually sue to remove third party from being on the ballot, if they believe those 3rd parties are more ideologically aligned with them. The LP should expect the same treatment next time around. Oh and the Democrats also sued to get Kanye removed to keep blacks from voting for him and for them. Because they also obviously think those voters need to be on their plantations.

          1. They, you, I, all of us – we are subjects to the left, not citizens

            1. Don’t disagree that they consider this. I disagree that they have enough power to overcome the people for my length of time.

              1. 6 months of lockdowns and millions of ruined lives/businesses give me a bit more skepticism

  26. “Makes zero difference to us. These men both are both unprincipled, morally compromised, big government loving authoritarians. If Biden wins, if Trump wins, end result will be the same.”

    One is clearly better for libertarians than the other, if only marginally so. Both candidates are protectionists, so that’s a wash. You’re going to get better judges and fewer federal regulation out of Trump. Any authoritarian tendencies will be tempered by ineptitude, and Kushner means more possibility of criminal justice reform. Let’s not pretend they’re equal.

    1. One hasn’t started any new wars in four years and is hated by the military industrial complex and the deep state. I think that makes a big fucking difference. I guess reason has decided the surveillance state and endless wars are just fine with them.

      1. One has a press that hates him and is waiting with baited breath to find evidence of wrongdoing, the other has State Media and Big Tech covering up for any action he might take and censoring the communication of wrongthink.

      2. Many libertarians only care about weed and open borders which, for most practical purposes, makes them Democrats.

        1. Democrats dont want legalized weed or to repeal the Controlled Substances Act. Democrats want to buy dope head votes by deregulating drugs. Idiots fall for it.

      3. Those are the main reasons I like Trump, even though I voted Jorgenson here in TX.

    2. hahahahaha….. you should vote for him because he is inept, so that will cancel out his clear authoritarian tendencies….. talk about strained logic.

  27. Democratic Senator Gary Peters narrowly wins reelection in Michigan

    Notice republican Senator candidate John James is a Black American and got beat by a White man Democrat by Black voters of Michigan.


    1. After James had been in the lead, albeit small, for awhile too.

      I’m not saying this will happen in Tillis’s or Perdue’s Senate races, but you shouldn’t be surprised when it does.

  28. WATCH: Suitcases and Coolers Rolled Into Detroit Voting Center at 4 AM, Brought Into Secure Counting Area

    6 hour shifts were said to be their working schedule but some probably worked over time.

  29. Yeah, over the last couple of days I’ve been blamed by both Republicans and Democrats. For a worthless one per-center I sure have a shitload of power.

  30. WALSH: Trump Massively Exceeded Expectations With Minority Voters. Here’s How He Did It.

    According to exit polls, while Trump’s white male support dipped by five percent, it rose among women and minorities of both sexes. 17% of black men broke for Trump, as opposed to 13% in 2016. His support among black women doubled from 4% to 8%. Latino men and women both rose by 3%. This dynamic is the opposite of what you’d expect from one of the most racist presidents in history, as Biden and the rest of the Democrat Party have dubbed him.

    1. They’re telling us that Trump got 20-25% of the black vote… and “lost”

      1. Well, Black Republican voters dont send in 2-3 mail-in ballots like Democrats did.

  31. Still waiting for her to get a single electoral college vote, the only ones that count.

    1. Ron Paul got one in 2016.

  32. Fair enough.

    Enjoy President Harris.

    I do not want to read any complaints from this publication about executive overreach over the next four years.

    1. Well, for sure, her cabinet confirmations are going to be a hoot.
      Buy popcorn stocks!

    2. I want to read about all of them

  33. For a preview of the kind of foreign policy we can expect from the Biden administration, take a look at this:

    “Last year, the Security Council unanimously adopted a resolution urging all countries to implement the provisions of all previous resolutions on women, peace and security “by ensuring and promoting the full, equal and meaningful participation of women in all stages of peace processes.”

    . . . .

    [U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres] said women remain largely excluded from delegations to peace talks and negotiations and said “we face serious obstacles” if they are not fairly represented, for example, “in the rooms where the future of Afghanistan is being discussed between the Taliban and the government”.

    —-ABC News

    You wouldn’t expect the UN to give a shit about whether staying in Afghanistan or leaving were in the best interests of the United States, but you would at least expect them to care more about whether there is peace in Afghanistan than whether women are adequately represented in the peace talks.

    The rational assumption about the motives of people who insists that the Taliban extend equal protections to women as a condition of peace–in violation of the religious fundamentalism that is at the core of the Taliban movement–is that they don’t want the U.S. to withdraw from Afghanistan. After all, if there can’t be peace in Afghanistan until the Taliban abandons their religious fundamentalism, then the U.S. will never leave Afghanistan.

    The question to ask is why should American foreign policy be used to the detriment of the American people and for the advantage of women on the other side of the world?

    This is highly reminiscent of the foreign policy of the Obama administration when Joe Biden was Vice President. One of the issues that President Trump campaigned on in 2016 was that the Democrats were such cancel culture prudes, they wouldn’t conduct foreign policy in the best interests of the Untied States. In fact, they were considering the best interests of LGBT in Moscow rather than the best interests of the USA. The Obama administration and Hillary Clinton would have invaded Syria itself to destroy ISIS or just let ISIS run rampant–rather than work with Putin to destroy ISIS in Syria. There were a number of reasons for that, but one of the big ones at the time was because they said Putin was against gay right and gay marriage. It was basically cancel culture!

    Trump coordinated with Putin to destroy ISIS–because it was in the best interests of the United States to work with Putin–and ISIS, thereby, was utterly destroyed without a full scale invasion of Syria by the United States, much to the disappointment of neocons like McCain and Hillary, not to mention the disappointment of the CIA and the FBI.

    The legitimate purpose of government is to protect our rights, and the legitimate purpose of the military is to protect our rights from foreign threats. The legitimate purpose of the military is not sell the war on terror short in the name of gay marriage in Moscow. The legitimate purpose of the military is not to ensure the equal treatment of women by Islamic fundamentalists in Afghanistan.

    If and when Biden exits the withdrawal agreement President Trump negotiated and signed with the Taliban, watch for the Biden administration to justify it with an explanation that’s all about what’s best for the people of Afghanistan–and what’s best for the women of Afghanistan. He may not even address the question of what’s in the best interests of the United States–because in the minds of modern progressives, privileged Americans thinking of their own best interests over the interests of the less privileged elsewhere in the world is fundamentally racist and, in the case of Afghanistan, fundamentally misogynistic.

    For those of you who voted for Jo Jorgensen, this is what you voted for.

    1. We can solve this issue by inviting the women of Afghanistan and their brothers, husbands, cousins, and children to America. They can help share and spread their American values with us! Diversity and unlimited, unmitigated immigration is our strength!

      1. A legitimate alternative would have been to reward Trump for negotiating and executing a withdrawal agreement with the Taliban.

        Even if we vote Republican next time, there’s no guarantee that he or she won’t be a neocon. We may not see another Reagan style pragmatist like Trump again in our lifetimes.

        And if the neocons in both parties don’t want us to leave until women are treated equally in Afghanistan, we may never leave. Hell, progressives don’t even think the women of the United States are treated equally!

        It’s a stupid and destructive way to conduct foreign policy, and if Trump loses, we may not get out of Afghanistan until sometime after we get out of Germany.

        1. This is one of the areas in which Trump majorly outperformed Republicans generally as to libertarian interest. We may get Republicans in office aplenty, but how many of them will be as good as Trump? The neocon establishment thought they were safe regardless of whether a Democrat or Republican was president, but then Trump.

          1. And I don’t know where the next pragmatist come from. Voting for the Republican may not make sense next time.

            1. If Trump loses, libertarians will never again get closer to their ostensible goals than they were just a year ago

              1. How do you know? “Never” is a long time!

                1. The writing is on the wall

    2. thats a sound understanding of whats happening whats best for them not us. and when i say them I mean the elected officials who get platitudes and money for up lifting the rights of others by force at the expense of American blood and treasure

      1. It works this way in domestic policy, too.

        Here in comments, I used to get eviscerated for suggesting that the Iraq War wasn’t in our best interests–as if that should matter. Especially early on, people genuinely believed that the Iraqi people wanted us to bomb, invade, and occupy their country–and even people on the right would call you a racist for suggesting that the Iraqi people might not want the same things we do. (I’ve often wondered in any of those people subsequently started complaining when Californians moved to their state with great ideas about how to change things for the better)

        From a domestic policy standpoint, the Drug War was very much the same thing. You may not believe it, but the suburban women of the 80s and 90s supported sending the police into black neighborhoods like a military occupation force with the same ideas that made so many people support the Iraq War–they invaded and occupied those black neighborhoods for the good of the black people who lived there. This has happened over and over again throughout history.

        The horrifying atrocities of British Imperialism were a result of the abolitionists in London, who wanted to send British troops to stamp out the evils of the slave trade at its source. Libertarianism is practically founded on the principle that forcing people to do what’s in their best interest under the threat of a gun is always doomed to failure. We need to mind our own business. Worry about ourselves. It may seem selfish, but how many recent atrocities could have been avoided if only we’d mind our own business?

  34. In Georgia, Jorgensen has received nearly 60,400 votes, or 1.2 percent of the state’s total. Currently, Trump is beating Biden in Georgia by fewer than 19,000 votes.

    Georgia is counting absentee ballots (which are different than mail-in ballots) and expects to have count by noon Thursday. Absentee ballots tend to be Republican as they are military, businessmen, and people who have a legally valid excuse to not vote in person.

    1. The problem is Nevada.

      There are only two districts in Nevada with significant population where the precincts haven’t yet reported: 1) Clark County (Las Vegas) and Washoe County (Reno). Those are also the only two blue counties in the state.

      430 of 563 precincts have reported in Washoe County.
      835 of 1,150 precincts have reported in Clark County.

      Those are blue counties. The votes that come out of them are blue–and there are huge numbers of votes in those counties compared to the rural votes in the other counties. One of the rural counties that hasn’t reported barely has a thousand votes total in the whole election. It will all be decided in Reno and Las Vegas.

      Trump will lose Nevada.

      He can’t get to 270 without the Supreme Court or Nevada, and the Supreme Court will be extremely reluctant to intervene.

      I want to be wrong about this, but even if Trump wins everything except for Nevada, he’s got like a 99% chance of losing.

      1. Don’t forget AZ. 4% more counted and Biden’s margin is shrinking. I still think AZ gets close and maybe triggers a recount.

        1. I’ll keep my fingers crossed.

      2. >>The problem is Nevada.

        the problem is the fraud.

        1. +100000

          And the SCOTUS should intervene on that issue.

      3. Btw, I’m starting to wonder if AZ has some shenanigans for team Blue. In 2016, 60% of the 3.5mil registered voters were active. This year, registered voters is 4.2mil. We’ve already seen 2.9mil votes cast, and projected to be around 3.3mil. That’s an increase from 60% to 78.5%. I know early voting made it easier for people to participate, but that seems fishy to me.

        1. Also, the sharpies issue…

  35. Don’t blame libertarians for not voting for the Liberation candidate the story should be. She took the ball and fumbled it. Coming out of the gate for BLM is when I knew I wasn’t voting for her.

    1. I didnt even pay attention to her. unreason (the non-Libertarian publication) was trying to push her, so I could tell it was the Lefty attempt to siphon off Republican votes.

      No way a Democrat was going to vote for anyone but Biden. They learned their lesson from 2016.

      1. You spend years telling libertarians to get fucked and now you’re pissed that we aren’t voting for your guy? Seriously?

      2. You assured the Peanut Gallery of a Trump victory, LovesTrumpsTinyMushroomDick1789.

        Since you hate libertarians why don’t you go to Bratfart? You’re making the GOP look worse than they are.

        1. Since you hate libertarians why don’t you go to Vox?

        2. Trump did win. He will win PA, NC, GA, AZ, and AK.

          Democrats are just trying to steal the election.

  36. >How’s that vote for your “conscience” feeling now ????

    Feeling great!

    > The Trump administration and its allies have spent years growing the government, turning against free speech and free trade, and in some cases mocking the idea that libertarian-minded constituents are a part of their coalition. Yet come election time, they act baffled that Libertarians wouldn’t want to lend this administration their support.

    This. Why should I vote for the party that spits in my face? You want my vote then earn it!

    Every libertarian I know that didn’t vote for Jo or stay home, voted for Biden. Not because they are socialists but because Trump told them to fuck off. And by “libertarian” I mean actual libertarians who hold with the ideas of limited government, free markets, and individual choice. I was quite shocked at some of them voting Biden. Because Biden is their total opposite. I know anarcho-capitalists who have never voted in their lives choosing to finally register and vote against Trump.

    Libertarian votes belong to no one but those casting them. If you want their votes you have to earn them. And Trump sure as hell did not earn them. It takes more than reneged promises to get out of Syria to do that. You don’t earn our votes through constant and unceasing mockery.

    1. “Every libertarian I know that didn’t vote for Jo or stay home, voted for Biden. Not because they are socialists but because Trump told them to fuck off”



      Your principled libertarian friends voted Biden.

      Leftists pretending to be libertarians is always fun.

      1. I mean, this very forum is full of righties pretending to be libertarians.

        Pretending to be a libertarian is very popular – actually being one, not so much.

        1. What eighties are pretending to be libertarian?
          You’ll never see me call myself one.
          But we get leftists continuously pleading their self-identification as libertarian, meanwhile they spout nothing but leftist talking points.
          Of course there are some left leaning libertarians, who aren’t necessarily leftists, but you know what Stalin says about those types…

          1. I’m not sure you are even able to define “leftist”.

            1. Don’t care.
              I have no respect for you.

              1. So you’re saying Brandy’s right.

      2. He’s from California. Even California Republicans don’t like Trump.

    2. “The Trump administration and its allies have spent years growing the government, turning against free speech and free trade, and in some cases mocking the idea that libertarian-minded constituents are a part of their coalition.”

      This is horseshit.

      1. We’ll never see a more libertarian president in our lifetime.

        1. $7 trillion in federal spending and a $3.1 trillion deficit says you are full of shit.

          (2019-2020 fiscal year numbers)

          1. Huh, wonder how that came about.

            1. Turd can’t seem to spell P-e-l-o-s-i.

            2. President Trump single-handedly destroyed a $3.5 trillion stimulus package–because it bailed out the states–and he did it in the depths of a recession and just weeks before an election!

              We’ll never see a politician do that again in our lifetimes.

              1. The voters sure rewarded him for it, didn’t they?

                Fiscal prudence isn’t what Americans want anymore.

                1. He did far better than expected, and he did it in the middle of a pandemic induced (lock-down induced) recession.

                  The odds were totally stacked against him.

                  In fact, the fact that more people were willing to vote for him than approved of him personally suggests that they were looking past his personality (which they hated) and voting for him because of his policies.

        2. He had two years with his party in the House and his party in the Senate, and still couldn’t manage to cut one dollar from the budget. He suggested getting out of Syria, but immediately pretended he didn’t the minute the Democrats and Neocons whined about it. Then he went and hired Bolton. That he later fired Bolton for being Bolton just proves he had no idea who he was hiring.

          The only bright spots in his administration were his appointees. Pai, DeVos, Barret. One of those he’s already fired. And they are outweighed by all the horrible associates along the way (Bolton). They’re merely proof that a stopped clock is right twice a day.

          1. He did show the good judgment to call off the war on Iran the neocons were ginning up. Gotta give him credit for that.

        3. I hope you’re wrong about that. I’ll grant that Biden is far worse than Trump on several major issues, but Trump is no libertarian.

      2. No Ken, it’s right on the mark. Trump is hostile to many core libertarian principles, and he’s on the record mocking libertarians. No I’m not gonna look it up. You can if you want. Additionally the poster boys for Trump here in these comments are nothing but derisive to libertarians and our ideals. So expecting libertarians to line up with them and support Trump is asinine. Seriously dude. That’s no endorsement for Biden. It’s just the truth. Like it or not. You don’t spend years spitting in peoples’ faces and then have a fit when they don’t like you.

        1. Where did Trump touch you?

        2. I will add this.

          The appropriate term to describe libertarian capitalists who are so principled they’ll vote for authoritarian and socialist policies like Biden War on Guns and the Green New Deal is not “principled”.

          Principled is when you stand by libertarian capitalism even when it means doing something hard, like voting for President Trump. There isn’t anything principled about voting for the Green New Deal and against leaving Afghanistan, and if you voted for Jorgensen, then that’s what you did.

        3. Also the not so small matter of how Ron Paul got screwed by the RNC (probably the only time I can recall when there would have been a serious draw away from the LP), mirroring how Sanders was screwed by the DNC. Or how the Tea Party was treated by establishment Republicans. Somehow moving the Republicans towards a libertarian bent hasn’t gone so well.

          And so in close elections, libertarians seem to be in the position of king-makers, and this is the best Republicans can offer?

          Yeah, good luck with that.

          1. The only areas where Trump was bad were the areas in which Biden was the same or worse.

            Trump was bad on immigration and international trade.

            Biden’s general goals on immigration may be better than Trump’s–but the way he’ll go about it is unconstitutional. Setting the rules of naturalization is an enumerated power of Congress, and DACA is as much a violation of the separation of powers as declaring war without consulting Congress. Those enumerated powers are enumerated in the same place.

            Trump was also bad on trade, but Biden is no better.

            On all the other issues, Trump is far more libertarian and far more capitalist. And if we’re not talking about the issues but Trump’s personality, then why talk about the election? We might as well talk about our favorite bands or our favorite restaurants instead.

            I like thin crust with pepperoni and pineapple.

            1. And I liked Jojo better than Trump and apparently so did about 1.5 million others.

              But good luck on the continuing efforts by the republicans here to court the libertarian vote.

              1. Actually I’ve been a registered libertarian for decades, and I don’t give a shit about the Republican party.

                Trump was objectively the libertarian capitalist choice on the issues.

                And if Joe Biden manages to eviscerate our gun rights, keep us in Afghanistan, and implement the Green New Deal, he’ll do so in the real world–and how 1.5 million foolish libertarians voted will be the reason for that–whether you like President Trump’s personality or not.

                1. P.S. I haven’t voted for a Republican in 20 years before this election, and I regret voting for that Republican.

                  Not that it matters.

                  President Trump was the far more libertarian capitalist choice no matter who I’ve voted for the in the past.

                2. I have to disagree with you here Ken. It’s not like all 1.5MM of those votes would have gone to Trump, so it doesn’t really matter if the LP beats the spread. Especially with the obvious shenanigans going on in the toss up states.

                  1. If the Libertarian vote for Jorgensen is greater than the spread between Biden and Trump in any one of a handful of states, it made the difference.

                    Isn’t that the case in Nevada, Georgia, and Wisconsin at least?

                  2. Tens of millions of people didn’t vote. Blame them.

                3. The essence of libertarianism is to live your life as you see fit.

                  Apparently in your history libertarian bona fides, you missed that.

                  1. What has Trump done, specifically, that doesn’t allow you to do that Qsl?

                    1. I’m sorry, was this a vote on my personal feelings about Trump, or which candidate best represents my political views?

                      Not that long ago there was derision of the DNC over Nader.

                      Good to see we’ve come full circle with that.

                    2. Do you not know the difference between thoughts and feelings?

                  2. Good luck with that in the New Normal, comrade.

                  3. My bad, I thought you were arguing that voting for Trump wasn’t libertarian because he wouldn’t let people live their lives as they see fit.

    3. So, what you’re saying is that you and your friends sided with the corporatist globalist tribe, then.

      1. I’m in favor of corporations and international trade, too.

        Brandybuck is ignoring all the libertarian things Trump did–especially in regards to to deregulation and cutting corporate taxes.

        That’s half of it. The other half is that Brandybuck seems to imagine that the alternative to Donald Trump was a) libertarian and b) not Joe Biden.

        Trump libertarian foreign policy, willingness to slash funding for socialist wealth redistribution plans like Medicaid, his unwillingness to bail out the states to force them to lay off millions of government employees, etc., etc., etc. Have we talked about Trump’s support for Betsy DeVos? That’s only half the argument.

        The other half of the argument is that the alternative to Trump wasn’t Jo Jorgensen. It was Joe Biden, who campaigned on implementing the Green New Deal, putting together an assault on our gun rights like we’ve never seen before, will bail out the states, and refused to promise not to pack the Supreme Court.

        People should never get confused between their fantasies about how the world should be and the reality of alternatives: not every choice between alternatives is a false dichotomy. The choices were between Trump and something far more authoritarian and socialist. And America will become more authoritarian and socialist because so many libertarian voted for Jo Jorgensen.

        1. No, Donald Trump Did Not ‘Shrink’ Government

          Libertarian publication disagrees with you.

          1. turd, did you see Ken make that claim, or are you just picking cherries in the hopes of making a living?

          2. The libertarian credentials of the staff here are in dispute, but even if they weren’t, an appeal to authority fallacy is a fallacy.

            By the way, Shrike, you’re not claiming to be a libertarian capitalist, are you?

            What do you know about libertarian capitalism, and by what standard are you using to say whether something is libertarian or capitalist?

        2. As I said before, I’ll worry about the far left getting their way as soon as Trump finishes his wall. Your fears are based upon politicians fulfilling their promises. I don’t share your fear.

          1. “Your fears are based upon politicians fulfilling their promises.”

            Presidents typically do a pretty good job with trying to fulfill their promises.

            Anyone who didn’t think Trump would really renegotiate NAFTA, launch a trade war with China, work with Putin to defeat ISIS, deregulate, cut the corporate tax rate, do everything he could to eviscerate ObamaCare, withdraw us from the Paris Climate Treaty, etc. was properly disappointed.

            Obama may have lied about what the impact of his policies would be, but he wasn’t lying about ObamaCare.

            Regardless, if you don’t go by what candidate Biden promised he would do on his website, then what do you go by? If Biden doesn’t implement the Green New Deal or go after our gun rights as promised, it won’t be because he didn’t follow through on his promises. It’ll be because Republicans took the senate and he can’t get his agenda through.

            1. So you agree with me?

              1. I don’t know. Are you saying that other people voting for Republicans in the senate makes up for libertarian capitalists foolishly putting a socialist in the White House? Because that’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying that average Republicans behaved more objectively libertarian and capitalist by voting for Trump than libertarians who voted for Jorgensen–and that isn’t a credit to average Republicans. It’s a disgrace to self-described libertarians who effectively voted for Joe Biden.

        3. The argument that a few cases of throwing the election to the worse candidate could be worth it to build a small party like the Libertarian Party was plausible decades ago. However, it should be clear by 2020, if not by 1990, that the Libertarian Party is not growing into anything with the force that would justify that. LP is full grown, and is not worthwhile. It’s a drag on the libertarian movement.

          1. It’s about Duverger’s Law.


            Because we have single member districts, we have a system that is dominated by two parties. It’s highly unlikely that either the Democrats or the Republicans will falter like the Whigs or other parties of the past–especially with the advantage of money for advertising that the two major parties are really good at raising and the emergence of mass media.

            So, the best hope for us libertarians has always been to infiltrate one of the two major parties. One example that happening successfully is what FDR did with the Socialist Party of America. He lifted their whole party platform from 1928 and introduced it as the New Deal. We want some president in the major parties to do that.

            in the meantime, the legitimate function of the LP is to have a voice through which we can address the voters when they’re thinking about politics (every four years during the election season). We aren’t about seizing the levers of government and inflicting libertarian policies on an unwilling America. We’re about persuading our fellow Americans to want libertarian and capitalist policies. Once we persuade enough of our fellow Americans to want a more libertarian world, one of the two major parties will start falling all over themselves to please us.

            The LP is a placeholder. The LP is a mouthpiece.

            The purpose of the LP shouldn’t be to spoil elections for a president who is probably the most libertarian president we’ve seen since World War II and are likely to see again in the near future. In fact, we’ve hurt the movement if someone can be as libertarian as Trump was and not reward him for it. If he wanted to get elected, he shouldn’t have bothered killing that stimulus bill. Libertarians wouldn’t reward him for it anyway. He should have tried to buy votes instead–if he wanted to be reelected.

            The LP is hurting the libertarian movement in this election.

            1. This is from the back of Free to Choose by Milton Friedman (of course).


              It shows the Socialist Party of America platform from 1928, point by point, and then it shows (in parentheses) how those planks were implemented (mostly by FDR).

              That’s what we want to do. That’s the purpose of the LP. The LP will never take power as the LP. They’ll probably be Republicans if and when we get a truly libertarian government–it’s just that being Republican then will mean what being libertarian means now.

    4. “…Why should I vote for the party that spits in my face?..”

      You should thank them for not doing what YOU deserve.

    5. Anybody that voted for More War, Taxes, and State Bailouts Biden/Harris isn’t a libertarian.

  37. As the results of the 2020 presidential election remain unknown, partisans on both sides have begun casting about desperately for folks to blame.

    Keep up the blaming, judging, scolding and condescending.

    That’s the way to win us over.

    1. Who cares about winning you over?
      If the left successfully steals this election, it doesn’t matter. You get the totalitarianism you helped, good and hard.

  38. Markets reacting very positively to the Biden news despite Trump threatening to interfere in the state’s business. NAZ is up over 500 points in two days.

    Too bad Peanuts.

    1. Markets reacting positively to legislative gridlock, as always.

      Too bad kid ogler.

      1. I’ve been calling for gridlock since before the GOP/Bushpigs ran up a trillion dollar deficit.

        1. You been shilling for Ds, turd.
          Fuck off and die.

  39. 60.000 votes left to count in GA as of 11am. Most are in Fulton and Gwinnett.

    Trump-Tards nervous. Trump wants to stop the count.

    1. Poor Lefties wont call PA, NC, GA, AK, and AZ for Trump because they had a sad about Biden losing.

    2. Gwinnett County turns less Blue the more they count.

  40. “And both liberals and conservatives agree that third-party voters are a problem”

    Fuck them.

    1. Word. It’s like some school jocks and nerds making a pact to keep out the punkers.

      1. high school never ends.

  41. If the repubs want my vote they better start following through on their promises to make govt. smaller and less intrusive. Until then I will not reward bad behavior.

    1. You mean like vetoing the Patriot Act into oblivion?

      1. Or cancelling two regulations for every new one passed?

        Face it, Libertarians don’t actually want to be helped. Or left alone.

    2. No chance unless there is a Dem POTUS. Trump wanted massive spending and got it whether the House was GOP or Dem.

      1. “…Trump wanted massive spending and got it whether the House was GOP or Dem…”

        Yeah, that tax cut was ‘massive spending’ to lefty fucking ignoramuses like turd here.

  42. “…Like many in the GOP, he seems to be harboring the delusion that Trump’s terrible big government agenda should somehow be preferable to Libertarians than Biden’s terrible big government agenda…”

    Yep, no difference at all.
    TDS is terrible to behold.

  43. I have no idea how the Jo vote would have split out if there was no LP. Neither do you. I suspect the far greater problem for the GOP was the number of registered Republicans who finally decided they couldn’t stand the undignified, crass, assholish clown in the White House. Trump needs to look in the mirror for the culprit, not spend time wondering about “if only Jo’s voters had loved me?”

    1. “…I suspect the far greater problem for the GOP was the number of registered Republicans who finally decided they couldn’t stand the undignified, crass, assholish clown in the White House…”

      I prefer assholish TDS victims like you fuck off and die a slow, painful death.

      1. That’s the spirit.

    2. I suspect the far greater problem for the GOP was the number of registered Republicans who finally decided they couldn’t stand the undignified, crass, assholish clown in the White House.

      Are you fucking kidding? Trump’s approval ratings with Republicans were the same as Dubya’s in 2004. Stop projecting your own disgust with him on to a party base that you have no actual knowledge of.

      1. The only actual knowledge I have is from constantly defending Trump against people I know who are registered Republicans and were convinced – by the media – that Trump was a racist, white supremacist, etc. Or by their own eyes at seeing their Party being represented by someone who reminded them of their drunken Uncle Mike pontificating at Thanksgiving dinner.

        1. Your friends and family members are clearly not representative of the entire Republican base.

        2. You watch too much of The Today Show

      2. the problem was the fiscally conservative independents who voted Republican for Senate and House races (thankfully), but couldn’t bring themselves to vote for Trump, either due to his personality, concerns about his sanity, or more likely, the belief (perhaps mistaken) that he bungled the COVID-19 crisis.

        There’s a reason the Dems got thrashed in Congressional elections but not at the top of the ticket

    3. Trump got at least 5 million more votes than he did in 2016.
      If you don’t want to hear about libertarians potentially giving power to totalitarian collectivists, then don’t fucking crow about doing just that.

    4. “I suspect the far greater problem for the GOP was the number of registered Republicans who finally decided they couldn’t stand the undignified, crass, assholish clown in the White House.”

      Turn out among Republicans is exactly why Trump did so well–and why the Republicans gained seats in the House.

      “Americans broke a 120-year-old turnout record — and are more divided than ever”

      —-LA Times

      1. He also got more minority votes, and a higher proportion of minority votes, than any Republican in 60 years.
        But enthusiasm for Hidin Joe Biden and his VP who couldn’t even last to the Iowa caucus primary totes overwhelmed Trump’s support…
        That’s the narrative they’re telling us we have to buy.

  44. write about the fraud.

  45. The left rained tens of millions of people’s lives, destroyed millions of small businesses, and added trillions to government debt to create the conditions necessary to seize power through blatant fraud.
    …and libertarians are apparently fine with this.

    1. *ruined, not rained

    2. The Libertarian Party is fine with it; libertarians are not.

  46. About the Hispanics:

    If anything, I think this election should be a sign to democrats that being self-righteous neurotic assholes isn’t a good strategy for winning hearts and minds. Half the country aren’t stupid racist bigots just because they don’t like the idea of four more states, packing the Supreme Court, getting rid of the electoral college, repealing the first amendment, etc. You really don’t own the vote of minorities who clearly are capable of being scared of your ridiculous policy positions.

    Making Washington DC a state? Really? Is giving a single city direct access to two senators “more democracy”? Please. It’s tyrannical power grabbing, and you should be ashamed of your hypocrisy, whining so much about gerrymandering, voter suppression, etc, while trying to throw two senators to a single city for no other reason than it’s full of democrats.

    The country sees you for the assholes you are, and, no, 75% of the country really doesn’t want to get rid of Trump and usher in a new wave of super socialism. Your grasp of reality is tenuous, and your opinions of yourself are based on bad data. Look in a mirror and do better.

    Or keep being self-righteous assholes who just don’t get why, if they’re so smart, they just can’t gain control of the government. Oh, yeah, I forgot: it’s all Facebook-Russia-Citizen-United’s-gerrymandings fault. It’s not that your polling data is so screwed up that you just remain oblivious to your own assholery. Keep blaming other people. That’s what assholes do.

    1. Well, actually, slightly more than 50% of the country does buy in to that shit and want to replace Trump.

      1. 51% of the country wants to replace Trump because they think he’s an asshole, too, not because they’re committed members of the cult of socialtopia.

    2. Look at social media and the MSM.

      They didn’t learn a goddamn thing. Not a thing.

      1. That’s what assholes do, unfortunately. It’s not us; it’s them.

    3. DC should never be a state, it’s unconstitutional.

      Puerto Rico should be the 51st state if they vote for that. Republicans might even go along with that, if we split off a conservative part of California to form a 52nd state.

      1. Puerto Rico should be the 51st state if they vote for that.

        Puerto Rico should be given independence; they have no place in the US. They don’t share US history or values, they bring nothing useful to the US, and they are an economic basket case requiring endless government handouts.

        Statehood should only be granted if all existing states agree to extend the union.

  47. And now the PA state Supreme Court rules that Republican poll watchers are not allowed to closely watch the recount process and, right on cue, the count resumes.

  48. “It looks like the Senate will stay controlled by Republicans, which has the benefit of hindering a potential President Biden’s ability to get things done.”

    That would be an OK outcome. No more President Trump constantly trying to drive the country toward more divisiveness, but Biden and the Democrats’ crazy spending plan kept in check.

    1. >>constantly trying to drive the country toward more divisiveness

      lol. wah. none of that happened.

    2. Instead we get President Biden constantly trying to drive the country towards more divisiveness?

      Just like before Trump we got President Obama doing the same thing?

    3. the Dems steered themselves to more divisiveness

    4. No more President Trump constantly trying to drive the country toward more divisiveness

      The divisiveness started under Obama/Biden, and Biden/Harris will continue it day after day of their presidency.

  49. Its been sweet, watching on Reddit gun subs, all the R’s – who’ve spent a year bitching about how Democrats just expect minorities to vote D – melting down in tears because not every Libertarian stayed on the plantation.

    Libertarians are not Republicans who want to smoke pot.

    1. Right, Libertarians are the kind of people whose votes can’t be bought by killing $3.5 trillion stimulus bills, negotiating a withdrawal agreement from Afghanistan, opposing the Green New Deal, or fighting to cut $772 billion from a socialist entitlement program.

      . . . which means no one should bother trying to appeal to them in the future.

      1. “…which means no one should bother trying to appeal to them in the future.”

        Reread that statement a few times, principled Libertarian Party voters. Maybe it’ll sink in. Politicians don’t reward groups that can’t be relied upon to help them win votes. If all you do is bitch about how the candidate isn’t perfect, no candidate is going to bother moving on any of your issues at all. If you’re lucky. If you’re unlucky, your group gets treated like Obama went after TEA Party groups.

      2. whose votes can’t be bought by killing $3.5 trillion stimulus bills

        Well, no. Why would we support ‘stimulus’ bills when we know they don’t work?

        or fighting to cut $772 billion from a socialist entitlement program.

        So Trump fights to cut 722 billion – while turning around and spending 3.5 trillion on a different socialist entitlement program?

        1. Also, I have to wonder why Libertarians are expected to tag along with a major party.

          Why do you people not demand that the Republicans stop wasting their votes and vote Libertarian.

          If every Republican voted L then Jorgeson would be President.

          1. Also, I have to wonder why Libertarians are expected to tag along with a major party.

            Nobody expects Libertarian Party voters to tag along with anything.

            Nobody expects them to be libertarians either.

            If every Republican voted L then Jorgeson would be President.

            Yes, and other than spewing platitudes during the election, what are her qualifications for the job? None. She has no political connections, no relevant experience, no money, no donors.

            Jorgenson didn’t lose because of any ideological failings, she lost because she isn’t up to the job.

    2. Libertarians made a stupid, prideful choice in this election – and all of us may suffer for it.

    3. Libertarians are not Republicans who want to smoke pot.

      People who believe in libertarianism are not Libertarian voters.

      And Libertarian voters increasingly just seem to be refugees from the increasingly nasty Democratic party and progressive movement.

  50. Ok, I got the Pulse of the Nation by viewing the embedded tweets.

    1. People who spend a lot of time on Twitter really should question their own objectivity.

      . . . and not just in the aftermath of Twitter refusing to let people tweet about information that was critical of Biden–although that should have been a red flag.

  51. I find it interesting how there seems to be a snickering that libertarians have spoiled the election for Orange Man (tee hee) but the at the same time an outright denial that they were erstwhile Republican voters.

    Some libertarians are erstwhile Bernie voters…

    1. “Libertarian socialist” seems to be an increasingly popular self identification

      1. And utterly baffling. I don’t understand how those words are supposed to even go together.

        1. I’ve tried to explain to people that there is no ‘left’ or ‘right’ libertarianism.

          Libertarianism is a big tent that can encompass collectivism. Just that its *voluntary* collectivism. Ie, people can choose to join it or not.

          If your socialism is voluntary then its just libertarianism. If its not then its not libertarianism.

          1. Libertarianism is a big tent that can encompass collectivism. Just that its *voluntary* collectivism. Ie, people can choose to join it or not.

            Libertarianism and collectivism are both political ideologies; that is, the term “collectivism” refers to a way of achieving collective outcomes through government. That is necessarily involuntary for at least some of the population.

            The “-ism” that refers to voluntary collective action is classical liberalism or libertarianism.

  52. The Dems suing to keep the Green Party off the ballot in WI (and elsewhere) seems to be an inspired move. Libertarians and Greens are kind of the Yin and Yang of third parties that, when they are both there, probably keep things balanced in terms of how they siphon votes from the Rs and Ds. I would definitely say that having just Libertarians hurts Rs more, though having Libertarians and Greens probably hurts Ds more, as I would expect some number of erstwhile D voters to vote Libertarian when it’s an option, while I can’t really imagine someone switching from R to Green.

    1. Keep in mind the Dems jawboned Stein into dropping her recount lawsuit after Trump pulled ahead. Wonder if they were concerned that some shenanigans might have turned up once the rocks were turned over.

      1. Give them credit: they learned from their mistakes four years ago.

  53. The title of this column is exactly how I feel about the LP. No party earned my vote for president this election cycle.

  54. What are Portland people going to protest when Biden is in charge?

    1. No one and nothing. That’s the whole point of a Color Revolution, to get the targeted individual out of office through social chaos and specifically honed media narratives. Once that person is out, the Open Society fomenters stop giving a damn. Look at the post-Arab Spring Middle East.

      If Biden takes the chair, the protests will stop the day after he’s inaugurated. Guaranteed.

      1. I’m not so sure. There’s a whole mass of young people in Portland and Seattle who just like to riot. I’m sure they will find another excuse in the next 4 years.

        1. Hard to riot from a Federal Prison cell. Assuming Biden wins, some scary, yet anonymous, person in a suit is going to explain the facts of life—along with videotape and mobile chat intercepts, if the Feds feel like flexing nuts—to a bunch of Black Bloc members. Keep fucking around, and find out what Black Guerrilla Family cock feels like in Marion. Or Terre Haute, etc…

          Not like DoJ shouldn’t have a mile high pile of evidence by now.

  55. ENB is an avatar of cluelessness, as always. The Republicans *did* get 80% of the libertarian vote, 15% to the Dems, and at most 5% went to Jorgenson.

  56. At least we still have our Constitution…and we’re not speaking German! Plus…weed is legal now bruhs!
    Amirite my fellow libbertarions?

  57. No, I don’t think “that those who cast their ballots for Libertarian candidate Jo Jorgensen are traitors who owed votes to…President Donald Trump.” I do think that if they really cared about freedom, they’d do all they can to keep Democrats out of office. Instead, they wasted their votes. So no, not “traitors,” just faux libertarians.

  58. You Are Not Entitled to Libertarian Votes

    Neither is the so-called “Libertarian Party”.

    See, just because an organization calls itself something doesn’t mean it actually promotes what its name suggests.

    The LP is worthless for promoting libertarianism or libertarian policies; in fact, it is downright harmful.

  59. I still hear arguments about Ross Perot ruining Bush41’s election. But my vote counts. So suck eggs.

  60. Nobody is “entitled” to Libertarian votes. But Libertarian voters appear to have decided that both candidates are precisely, equally bad. The probability of that being true is essentially zero.

    So look at this election… for all his rhetoric, Trump’s actions have almost all been to increase freedom. His Supreme Court and Appeals Court picks are constitutionalists, and the Constitution is the primary guarantor of our freedom, or at least, it should be.

    Libertarians may object to Trump’s actions on trade, but in most cases, they were about trade with countries that themselves were violating free trade principles.

    Trump’s foreign affairs actions have been to start disentangling us from interventions that are not crucial to our defense, while stepping up measures to protect us from the very real threats to our freedom (and lives) from China (especially) but also Russia and Iran.

    On immigration, Trump’s actions have been to enforce our laws, and put in place the ability to do so (the “wall”). While Libertarians may believe that there should be free immigration, one would hope that they favor the enforcement of democratically enacted laws, even if they disagree with them.

    Meanwhile, the Democrats and their media and big tech allies are on the side of no freedom at all, except to do exactly what they say you can do, in only the way they say you can do it. Their culture war pushes are pure Gramscian Marxist inspired power plays – to divide us, and to rule us. If Libertarians believe that people should be judged on merit, how can they not vote against the party which believes that skin color, ethnic origin, sex, and sexual preference are far more important than achievements?

    If Libertarians believe in free speech, how can they not vote against the party which is in favor of censorship, drastic censorship, of any ideas that their foolish young constituents find “threatening?”

    If Libertarians believe in economic freedom, how can they not vote against the party of socialism?

    If Libertarians believe in freedom in general, how can they vote for the party that seeks to crush freedom of religious exercise, just because the party disagrees with the age old teachings of those religions?

    The answer to those questions, I think, is that Libertarians are like leftists – more interested in signaling their virtue by voting for hopeless candidates than they are in actually helping the cause of freedom. The socialists will come to you while you sit there smugly in your ideological purity!

Please to post comments

Comments are closed.