Jo Jorgensen

Jo Jorgensen Heading Toward Second-Best Result in Libertarian Party History

The Libertarian presidential nominee is at 1.14 percent, has 1.58 million votes, and is ahead of all third-party candidates in every state. She's also beating the Trump-Biden spread in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Nevada.

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With most of the Electoral College map filled out as of 9:30 a.m. ET the morning after election day, Libertarian Party (L.P.) presidential nominee Jo Jorgensen had already received the second-highest number of votes in her party's 49-year history: 1.58 million and counting.

Jorgensen, a psychology lecturer at Clemson and the 1996 running mate of L.P. stalwart Harry Browne, is currently at 1.14 percent of the national vote, a tick above the party's second- and third-best showings: Ed Clark's 1.06 percent in 1980, and Gary Johnson's 0.99 percent in 2012.

With votes still being tallied and nails still being bitten in several battleground states, Jorgensen's vote total currently exceeds the margin between President Donald Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden in three states: Michigan (+0.87 percentage points, with 90 percent of ballots counted), Wisconsin (+0.51, with 97 percent counted), and Nevada (+0.27, with 87 percent).

Though 1.14 percent marks a steep drop-off from Gary Johnson's 3.28 percent in 2016, there are several reasons for the L.P. to see the glass half-full in these results. For one, Jorgensen beat every other third-party and independent candidate in all 50 states and the District of Columbia. (Sorry, Kanye.) The Libertarian is quintupling Green Party nominee Howie Hawkins' current total of 0.23 percent.

Around 57 percent of all voters who selected neither Democrat nor Republican for president in both 2012 and 2016 chose the Libertarian; this year that share will be jacked up closer to 69 percent. With massive leads in party registration, number of elected officials (including a freshly elected member of the Wyoming state house), and ballot access, the L.P. over the past decade has become the third party in the United States.

All this with a candidate who has significantly lower name recognition than 2008 nominee Bob Barr, the former Republican congressman who switched back to the GOP (as did his Las Vegas pitchman running mate Wayne Allyn Root) after winning just 0.4 percent of the vote.

NEXT: On Election Night, the Real Winner Was Drugs

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  1. So Jorgensen might get Biden elected and become responsible for all of the nasty executive orders that his administration will be making while the media browbeats any potential critics into compliance.

    How wonderful.

    1. Libertarians have more in common with republican’s than with Democrats. Democrats are the party of big government, more government services, more safety nets, and that is the opposite of libertarianism. Until we can get “ranked choice voting” which everyone should support – a vote for libertarians is a vote for democrats (Because the democrats will get a elected, rather than biting your tongue and voting for a candidate that actually has a chance of winning – aka – a republican).

      So Nevada would be for Trump right now, if the libertarian vote there went for Trump, instead of Jorgensen. So now, Libertarian’s can enjoy Socialist Harris and Biden, gun control Beto, soon to be appointed by Biden, and can usher in the equality/equity utopia of extreme taxation and redistributionism. Enjoy!

      1. While they may have more in common with republicans, that does not change their shift to the left over the past 25 to 50 years

        1. Well. Get ready for another shift. More are coming.

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          2. Jo Jorgensen Heading Toward Second-Best Result in Libertarian Party History

            It’s ridiculous to watch libertarians celebrate their 1% like it’s any kind of a win.

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            2. Exactly, on the ballot in all states is an accomplishment but need someone with recognition and charisma to appeal to voters. Better to try and win some local races and some house and senate seats with Libertarian leaning candidates and do away with a Libertarian purity test.

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      2. I fully disagree. Libertarians do not have more in common with Republicans. Libertarians are just as different from the Republicans as they are from the Democrats.

        1. How so?

          Libertarians support individual autonomy, private property, and Constitutional rights, including free speech and assembly. Conservatives have traditionally supported the first two, while Liberals have not. And in the Progressive era, liberals are now more inclined to limit rights, so that the Ds and Rs may have flipped in support.

          1. The difference is Republicans vs Trumplicans.

            Trump changed everything. Politics now is all about Trump, pro and con. People vote for or against Trump, and because he up-ended politics so much, the Dems pivoted to the Green New Deal communism-lite; one nut deserves another, I guess.

            Biden himself is just a run-of-the-mill old-fashioned Democrat, but he is not the face of the Democrat party.

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          2. You can’t cherry pick. You have to compare the totality of the positions on all the issues. And when that is done, libertarians don’t have that much in common with the Republicans, especially not with the Trumpian version of Republicans.

            1. And even less with Democrats …. so …

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            2. Then please compare the totality of the positions on all the issues.

              The way I see it, from a libertarian point of view, Trump is better than Biden/Harris socialism.

              Libertarians are for lower taxes (so are republicans).
              Libertarians want individualism, and self reliance (Democrats want to take care of you with social programs while forcefully taking your money.)
              Libertarians want fewer regulations and freedom from government (Democrats want more government, more regulations)
              Libertarians want their gun rights left alone (Democrats want the public to own a single shot break over 22 short, and that’s about it, with proper licensing of course).
              Libertarians want a free market (Democrats want the opposite of a free market).

              If I’m wrong, show me where, and if there is something to add, please do so. Because I am failing to understand why libertarians would prefer the equality/equity squad over anti-war, lower taxes, populism Trump.

              1. We prefer our candidate, what’s not to understand? The fact that people still use this tired “if you wouldn’t have voted for X, Y would have won” is ridiculous, I wasn’t going to vote for Trump or Biden, why the fuck would you think my vote should go to someone other than who I want it to? Absurd.

                1. why the fuck would you think my vote should go to someone other than who I want it to? Absurd.

                  Because your vote didn’t have a chance. We all knew your vote didn’t have a chance. You knew your vote didn’t have a chance. Everyone on earth, knew a vote for Jorgensen didn’t have a chance.

                  And…. of the two candidates that did have a chance, one was better than the other. And we can itemize why that one was better if you would like.

                  1. Which is fine, I’m still not going to vote for someone I don’t agree with, and to act like my vote would magically go to your candidate is delusional.

                    1. Then you forfeit all rights to complain about Biden.

                    2. Choosing irrationality.
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            3. Still waiting for you to compare the totality of the positions on all the issues.

              You essentially dropped a “it’s complicated” and then ran away with zero supporting evidence.

          3. Base of the Republican party is the religious right. Theyre not libertarian.

            1. You realize that you can be personally religious, but not want to force it on other people, right?

              1. No. People that make stupid comments like that don’t believe there are church-goers who don’t believe that everyone else will rot in hell.

                1. It doesn’t even matter if people think others will rot in hell. You rotting in hell doesn’t affect them, and the most 99% of them will do is try to talk you into changing your beliefs…

                  1. Most of them are not even trying to talk anyone into changing their beliefs. They are just sharing the ways church makes them happy.

              2. He doesn’t realize that. Progressives can’t comprehend not making their personal wishes public policy. Nor do they understand anyone who does.

          4. Conservatives may have traditionally supported free markets and private property, but they don’t right now. Free market small-c conservatives were natural allies, but they got abandoned by the Republicans under Trump, and probably before that. (Dubya, as a neocon, wasn’t particularly small-c conservative).

            And individual autonomy? Please. The Republicans have pushed the war on drugs since its inception. Social conservatives are especially bad on individual autonomy.

            From a libertarian perspective, social conservatives are just as bad as progressives, and they’re the ones dominating the Republican party at the moment.

            Both Ds and Rs have become parties of big government.

            Libertarians didn’t move away from Republicans, Republicans ran away from Libertarians.

            1. Republicans have pushed the war on drugs since its inception.

              See: Joe Biden.

              People who get rich when the Federal government regulates the shit out of everything have pushed the war on drugs since its inception. The FBI, DEA, CIA, ATF, etc., etc., have profited and grown and will never give up on that big fat pot of cash that black markets provide.

              Forfeiture is just another way to tax the poor. They grossly overpay for black market product, and the police seize the proceeds.

              1. I won’t disagree, Biden hopped on the War on Drugs band wagon. But he did it to *outflank the Republicans*, who were already pushing that narrative.

                (It makes him equally culpable, but that doesn’t make the Republicans any better).

                1. Republicans voted for Trump by 15% points in Montana, and also approved legalized marijuana (at least a sizable chunk of them) so I think a large number of Republicans are over the war on drugs. As well as other wars.

            2. “And individual autonomy? Please. The Republicans have pushed the war on drugs since its inception. Social conservatives are especially bad on individual autonomy.”

              Considering what happened last night in South Dakota, Montana, and Arizona, I’m not so sure this is the case anymore. And establishment/”Centrist” Democrats have been just as bad or worse on both individual autonomy and the War on Drugs.

              1. Just as bad is not a reason to prefer one over the other. (And it’s not just the war on drugs where social conservatives are bad on individual autonomy, nor is State action a substitute for federal action).

                Neither major party (at the federal level) will get my vote until i see substantial positive action.

                1. Yea, don’t think the totalitarian left cares anymore.
                  They’ve gotten their way, and votes won’t matter anymore.

                2. It’s ok squirrelloid.

                  You can smoke some crack while working for the government. We’ll all likely be working for the government in the coming decades. You’ll work, according to your ability, and everyone will receive according to their needs. And you can safely smoke your crack while you do it.

          5. Republicans talk “liberty” and “small government,” but they never deliver. They spend record amounts, which somebody sooner or later will have to pay for, and they will let you keep your guns but want to tell you who you can and can’t sleep with.

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      3. I’d wager that half of that libertarian vote in Nevada and Michigan would go democrat instead of republican if they only had the two choices.

        1. Why do libertarians think they have more in common with equality/equity extremists (marxists) than an anti-war republican populist?

          1. Libertarians are anti-war? I have not seen much evidence of that at Reason.

            Trump should close Guantanamo before he leaves office. That would make their heads explode.

      4. Libertarians support liberty, both personal and economic.

        Democrats give lip service to personal liberty while being openly hostile to personal liberty.

        Republicans (before Trump’s trade war) give lip service to economic liberty while being openly hostile to personal liberty.

        So for the libertarian choosing between a giant douche and a turd sandwich, it’s a matter of choosing between [lip service to] personal and economic liberty.

        1. Republicans (before Trump’s trade war) give lip service to economic liberty while being openly hostile to personal liberty.

          This makes no sense at all. Please elaborate.

          1. Republicans claim to be the party of less spending, less regulation and debt, but rarely if ever deliver. If anything they lower taxes and increase spending. Meanwhile they support the drug war, are no fans of gays or immigrants, and get the single issue anti-abortion vote.

            1. “no fans of gays or immigrants

              And what policies are they proposing against the “gays?”

              Also, we can all see that you’re inaccurately presenting a dislike for illegal immigrants as a dislike for all immigrants…

              1. I was using generalities. If you want to pick nits, go join the chimps at the zoo.

                1. So, you’ve got no points. Copy.

                  1. He’s got generalities! Never mind they exactly match the mainstream media’s narratives.

      5. Gotta love how the same people who routinely complain the LP isn’t conservatarian enough and dismissed Jorgensen as some sort of crypto-progressive, BLM-supporting shill for the cultural left are now bellyaching that she drew too many votes away from their right-wing candidate.

        It’s a FPTP, plurality voting system. You can’t have it both ways.

      6. Exactly. Only idiots vote 3rd party.

      7. Don’t forget Warren calling the economic shots. She’s the one that couldn’t even come up with how much her healthcare “plan” would cost taxpayers…

    2. The real takeaway.

      1. No, the real takeaway here is that the Mises Institute should stop pretending to be a libertarian organization. Every single one of their “scholars” endorsed Trump, except for Walter Block. Walter Block was the only one that even mentioned Jorgensen. Since Jorgensen’s economic policies are far more libertarian than Trump’s, this exposed them for the frauds that they are.

        1. Biden’s policies are even less libertarian than Trumps.

          So, if you get Biden, enjoy it.

          Libertarian glory in all the wrong ways.

        2. A lot of people recognize the reality that no LP candidate will win, and base their voting on the two who can win. Recommending a vote for Trump is only an endorsement of Trump better than Green New Deal, not of Trump’s policies.

          1. Not buying that for a second. Then they could have mentioned Jo and said that. But no, they don’t want to acknowledge that the LP even exists, because they want to push their own twisted version of libertarianism, which is really just conservatism.

            1. The LP cheerleaders are bragging about the LP getting ONE FUCKING PERCENT OF THE VOTE!!

              Why would anybody hold them up as viable?

              1. Inigo Montoya : He’s dead. He can’t talk.
                Miracle Max : Whoo-hoo-hoo, look who knows so much. It just so happens that your friend here is only MOSTLY dead. There’s a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there’s usually only one thing you can do.
                Inigo Montoya : What’s that?
                Miracle Max : Go through his clothes and look for loose change.

            2. The LvMI crowd was friendlier (or at least less hostile) to the Libertarian Party when they thought the Mises Caucus could seal Hornberger’s nomination and install a bunch of die-hard Rothbardian paleos on the LNC. When it was Jorgensen rather than Bumper for president, and Bishop-Henchman rather than Smith replacing Sarwark as chair, the Neo-Austrians went back to hating on the LP.

              1. It’s hard to blame them for hating a party that keeps nominating awful candidates (they don’t prefer) who couldn’t even win against H. Ross Perot…

            3. Not buying that for a second.

              Nobody thought that you would. But we still have to try for the open minded.

          2. A lot of people recognize the reality that no LP candidate will win, and base their voting on the two who can win.

            A lot of people are fucking stupid then. The only reason any rational person would vote for tactical reasons is if their vote had a chance to change the outcome. Since your vote doesn’t have that chance, your vote is in fact purely symbolic – signaling.

            Which is fine – but – what are you actually signalling with your convoluted deceitful rationale?

        3. Trump defends personal liberties, opposes war, and promotes good economics. He’s the closest to a libertarian the Republicans have.

          It makes sense for Mises Institute scholars to support him, when comparing him to the weak and ineffectual Jorgensen. In her 40+ years of adulthood, she’s never held an executive or leadership role. And she pandered to the left, as well as tolerated dissent among her own staff.

          1. What about Rand Paul?

        4. That’s because Mises Institute scholars are not idiots. They endorse the candidate who both best represents their point of view and has an actual chance of winning.

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    4. No, that’s not how it works, homey. A vote for Jorgensen is a vote for Jorgensen and not a vote for anyone else. Fuck off with your guilt tripping attempts. Jorgensen will not be responsible for anything Biden does.

      1. No, not Jorgensen.

        The libertarians that voted for Jorgensen.

      2. If we could implement ranked choice voting in Presidential elections, then a vote for Jorgensen could become a vote for Biden.

        1. I see what you did there. 🙂

      3. Jorgensen will not be responsible for anything Biden does.

        No she won’t. Those that voted for her will. LOL.

        Until we have ranked choice voting, your vote is getting thrown in the trash heap, while communists take over.

        1. “communists”

          Someone’s been drinking the Trump Kool-Aid.

          1. I don’t even like Trump. But I would vastly prefer Trump to the opposition.

            You ridicule me for the word “communist.”

            Have you seen Kamala’s Equality vs Equity tweet?
            You should watch it.

            1. You may not like Trump but you have certainly bought into the Team Red demagoguery.

              Do you have any idea what actual communism is?

              1. Yes. And it starts out with the concepts discussed in that video.
                Did you watch it?

                1. My wife is from communist Vietnam. She was born in Vietnam. She lived in Vietnam for decades. All of her friends and family here in the states grabbed any of their voting capable relatives (citizens) and hauled them to the polls to vote for Trump. Because they know the ideology already. They have seen it before. Watch the video. It is core marxism.

                  Now I call them communists in part in jest. They are not communists “yet.” But their ideology is core marxism. Watch the video.

                  1. Despite the 150 million or so dead from the 20th century, Jeffy remains unconvinced that communism is evil.

                    Anyone who has the audacity to ask:
                    Do you have any idea what actual communism is?
                    is an apologist for mass murder and genocide.

                    1. Oh good Lord. I am not defending communism in any way. I am objecting to the cheapening of the term by trying to apply it indiscriminately to anyone who is to the left of Ted Cruz. It is ridiculous. It is an insult to the victims of communism by trying to suggest that anyone who suggests doing anything collectively in any way is equivalent to Stalinist hell. It is no different than those people who call Trump a Nazi. They are cheapening the horrors of Naziism by attempting to apply it to an oaf like Trump.

                      If you think that what Biden and Harris represent anything close to resembling Soviet communism or Chinese communism or Vietnamese communism or any of the *actual* Communist horrors of the 20th century, then it is just further proof that cheap demagoguery works. Nothing more, nothing less.

                    2. HAHAHAHAHA! I just went and read Joe Biden’s platform on his campaign website. He speaks to the proletariat and derides the bourgeoisie, just like a good Leninist. Harris is the Stalinist waiting in the wings.

                      It is not a slippery slope. It is a fucking ledge above a crevasse.

                    3. It is an insult to the victims of communism by trying to suggest that anyone who suggests doing anything collectively in any way is equivalent to Stalinist hell.

                      No. Not doing anything collectively. But being forced to do things collectively. And that is the democrat party. While the right may occasionally take some freedom away from you. The left makes you participate in their endeavors.

                      If you think that what Biden and Harris represent anything close to resembling Soviet communism or Chinese communism or Vietnamese communism or any of the *actual* Communist horrors of the 20th century, then it is just further proof that cheap demagoguery works. Nothing more, nothing less.

                      Disagree. Lets have the people of the US vote on Harris’s equity. We vote on it. It passes. Lots of people disagree with it. They riot. They resist. Eventually, the left gets tired of them, and ships them to a prison (gulag). Congratulations, you have the beginnings of communism.

                      I’m not really accusing them of communism. I am saying, their ideology, and the ideology of communism (equity) are the same. Watch the video.

    5. No, the people who voted for Biden will bear that responsibility. If the Wizened Plagiarist manages to eke out a victory over the Bankrupt-In-Chief, I will not be happier than if things go the other way, unless Statist Party B manages to retain the Senate, which may give us a measure of sweet, sweet gridlock. Both chambers of Congress and the Presidency all in the hands of Statist Party A won’t be pretty. You do realize that in a national electorate as large as ours assuming the million+ who will vote Libertarian even what is perceived as a tight race is nonsense? Biden won my state by 57-40 over Trump. If you want to blame LP voters for a result you don’t like, restrict your anger to those in the swing states. If every Jorgensen supporter here voted for the Executive Cheez Doodle it would have reduced his whuppin’ by a percentage point.

      1. No, the people who voted for Biden will bear that responsibility.

        No. Everyone that voted will bear that responsibility. Including those that purposely rejected the foresight to elect a lesser of two evils rather than throwing their vote in the trash can.

        Statist party B is not purely statist. The party you speak of, supports federalism more than the other. They support individual rights more than the other. They support smaller government. They support not getting into foreign entanglement wars. They support self reliance over safety nets. Your premise is not honest.

        If you want to blame LP voters for a result you don’t like, restrict your anger to those in the swing states.

        I was actually. I was talking about Nevada.

        If every Jorgensen supporter here voted for the Executive Cheez Doodle it would have reduced his whuppin’ by a percentage point.

        You better hope the “statist” party holds the senate, or you can turn in your AR15, get laid off and start studying solar panel design, watch your taxes double, and get social services you don’t want, handled by inefficient bureaucrats, get rammed down your throat. When a less qualified trans person gets your job due to LGBT affirmative action, you’ll think back, and say, “the cheese doodle wasn’t so bad.” But hey – at least the rioting might stop for a bit. Looks like their “vote for us and the rioting will stop” ploy might have paid off. Time for some new statues though. Those old statues are actually not historic, and need to be replaced immediately, with new moral characters of modern times.

        1. Statist party B is not purely statist.

          It’s statist enough! You keep expecting libertarians to support “just a little bit more statism” in supporting this “lesser of two evils” nonsense. At what point is it permissible to you for a libertarian to say “enough of this shit already, I’m not voting for any more of this statist nonsense”?

        2. or you can turn in your AR15, get laid off and start studying solar panel design, watch your taxes double, and get social services you don’t want, handled by inefficient bureaucrats, get rammed down your throat.

          See there you go. You have totally bought into the fearmongering nonsense of Team Red. “Vote for us otherwise it will be ARMAGEDDON!!!1!!!!!!!!11!!!!!” This is how they whip people into voting for their idiocy. By scaring people with demagogic nonsense. Recognize this baloney for what it is, just another fear tactic that BOTH teams do to prop up their failing bullshit. They cannot put forth a positive forward-looking agenda, so they put forth demagogic appeals to fear.

          1. You have totally bought into the fearmongering nonsense of Team Red. “Vote for us otherwise it will be ARMAGEDDON!!!1!!!!!!!!11!!!!!”

            I didn’t say anything untrue. Biden wants to ban AR15s. This is fact:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8Set-RVhc4

          2. Biden supports the green new deal. He wants to “transition away from fossil fuels and put forth more wind/solar subsidies. And the democrats in general want to implement government controlled/subsidized healthcare. This is all fact. I’m sorry you find it fearful.

          3. The Democrats have quite literally said this is their position.
            -Biden is going to make Beto “hell ya, we’re gonna take your AR-15” O’Rourke his “Gun Control Tzar”
            -Biden has stated he’s going to do away with the “Trump” tax cuts

          4. scaring people with demagogic nonsense.

            “COVID is an extremely dangerous disease that calls for drastic measures like lockdowns and mask mandates,” is demagogic nonsense, contradicted by every previous pandemic and actual science.

            “Socialism makes people less free and is harmful to the economy,” is uncontradicted by the experiences of the last 150 years.

          5. Goddamn you’re such a disingenuous little twat. We’re going off of what Biden and Harris have actually said this would do.

        3. Voting for “lesser of two evils” is still a vote for evil, I will not be part of that. Get fucked.

          1. No winning party is ever going to be your perfect party. It’s always a compromise for everyone. Instead of compromising, you chose to get fucked. And the Democrats will fuck you. That will be happening.

            1. I hate both republicans and democrats, perhaps you haven’t paid attention to how they’re basically the same high-tax, high-speed statists, but they are. That’s not what I believe in, so why would I support it?

              The positive trajectory we enjoy comes from innovation driven by a “free market”, not the government. Both sides love to fuck with the market, so fuck that.

            2. Get back to me when one of the two parties does a single responsible thing while it holds power, like *substantially cut spending across the board*. Or actually ends one of our foreign wars. Or ends the war on drugs.

              We’re getting fucked either way. I refuse to be party to it.

    6. So sorry, that’s not correct. The people who bear that burden are 1) the people who voted for Biden, and 2) the Republican Party which failed to mobilize enough of its voters. If too many Republicans stayed home that’s not my damn fault.

      1. Trump is down by 30k in Michigan and Wisconsin now, when he was up by about 100k when I called it a night at 3am. And nearly 140million votes have been counted.

        I seriously doubt it will end up being a problem of voter turnout.

      2. So sorry, that’s not correct. The people who bear that burden are 1) the people who voted for Biden, and 2) the Republican Party which failed to mobilize enough of its voters. If too many Republicans stayed home that’s not my damn fault.

        I totally agree. It’s not your fault, if you the support equality/equity squad over the anti-war, lower taxes, populist Trump.

    7. just unsubscribed to reason

      1. Drink!

    8. Good point. Just as Democrats own the black and gay vote, Republicans own the libertarian vote.

      1. You might be a lot less miserable if you tried thinking rationally

        1. You’d mumble a lot less if you stopped sucking my dick.

          1. You don’t understand the root of the word rational, do you?

            1. This surprises you?

        2. “miserable”

          Says the guy about to go Full McVeigh because senile, milquetoast, limp-wristed Joe fucking Biden might get elected.

          1. You’re such a fucking moron.
            Obviously you’ve never had a business and work from home, because you sure as hell are happy as a bitch to close your eyes and pretend like the totalitarians who just destroyed tens of millions of people’s lives aren’t going to do exactly what they say they’re going to do.

            1. The lockdowns were a massive overreach by state governments, particularly given what we know now about COVID. That doesn’t mean that we’re on the verge of totalitarianism whatsoever.

              Fuck’s sake man, you were arguing yesterday that Americans will go along with literally eating each other if the government tells them to. Take a fucking breath. Go tell someone who’s actually lived in the USSR or Maoist China how you feel about the state of the US and see how much sympathy you get.

              I didn’t vote for Biden, and I don’t think things will get much better with him in charge. But if he’s elected, easily the best part about it will be hearing you snivel like a little bitch about it. “Cry more”, as you’re so fond of saying.

              1. You deserve exactly what you’re going to get.

    9. Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.

      1. It’s the worst form of government, except for all the others.

    10. maybe it is time for republicans to actually deliver on the principles they claim to have in common with us. it wasn’t that long ago that they had single party control and they delivered a permanent trillion dollar deficit.

      either side will do things we hate, and neither side will actually deliver on the things we agree about…… you just don’t get it, we don’t see either as any form of victory.

      if you think we made Biden win, you need to earn our votes back…… insulting us for it will accomplish the opposite.

      1. Lol

        If you think your vote will ever matter again, you’re in for a surprise.
        Welcome to the new normal, comrade.
        The Party appreciates your virtue.

      2. Enjoy new wars. I liked the four years of no new ones, but I guess that’s just too long.

        1. setting the bar high, i see. i guess you have to set the standards low to support trump.

          1. A low bar that Biden will never, ever manage to clear.

            Every war…your fault. And I will happily slap everyone who voted for Biden for it. Perhaps military members fragging the highest level of authority might be needed.

            1. clearly you are too stupid to even understand that we are not talking about people who voted for Biden.

      3. You realize that Trump was actually an instance of one of the major parties moving towards the libertarian position on some topics? Sure, spending was still idiotically high, but that’s ONE position.

        – No new wars?
        – Not an insignificant tax cut?
        – Eliminating the special treatment of rich states by getting rid of the SALT deduction?
        – Removing government regulations at an incredible rate (at least early on)?
        – Appointing judges who actually use the Constitution to determine the Constitutionality of laws?

        Did he do EVERYTHING libertarians want? No.
        Did he do A LOT of what libertarians want? No.
        Did he do MORE than any other viable candidate in decades? Yes.

        1. And if he loses, you can say goodbye to any of that shit being done again.

        2. it is extremely sad when you set the bar so low that continuing existing wars at the exact same level is supposed to be even remotely libertarian…… really?

          tax cuts without enough spending reduction to cover them (or any spending reduction, for that matter)….. libertarians might hate taxes, but that does not mean we support irresponsibility. the way this was done guarantees that taxes will have to go back up at some point to pay the bill. tax cuts are not good if you know they will create a need for more taxes in the future. the tax cuts must accompany spending reductions.

          oh wait……. next line……. when you say tax cuts, what you mean is he was able to effectively raise taxes in blue states, by making those people you don’t like pay more in state taxes….. how libertarian….

          removed some regulations….. OK, a broke clock is right twice a day.

          he also:

          banned bump stocks
          supported red flag laws with no due process
          tariffs and trade wars
          border walls
          separating children from their families
          sending unmarked federal forces to round up protestors against the wishes of local government
          clearing a crowd with pepper balls so he can have a photo op

          if you can honestly look at trump’s record, and think he moved us in a libertarian direction….. you might be an idiot.

          1. It IS sad that the bar is that low, AND YET, he did things no other president has done in more than 20 years…

            – Sure, I’d like to see spending reductions, but that’s not going to happen. It just isn’t. I’d rather have MY money now, and maybe it won’t be blown on ridiculous stuff the government was going to blow it on. They’re going to be irresponsible either way, that won’t change because it hasn’t yet.

            – No, I mean he eliminated a “loophole” which allowed ONLY people who had significant itemized state and local taxes to be deducted from their “fair share” of the Federal income tax. Essentially, ONLY “richer” people were able to get tax relief from federal taxes. The repeal of SALT deductions put EVERYONE, no matter their “red state/blue state” status OR economic class, on the same playing field in regards to their tax burden. I don’t care if rich people or Democrats get to take that deduction, as long as EVERYONE else does too. That IS libertarian. But apparently, you want high tax states’ citizens to receive special treatment so everyone else can pay taxes FOR them. That is NOT libertarian.

            You know who ELSE separated children from their families? Literally EVERY government official who puts ANYONE in prison for ANY reason (that would be EVERY president).

            Those Federal forces were plainly marked, and those people were not just “protesting;” unless causing property damage and battery are “protesting” now. That is a complete BS talking point.

            The crowd clearing was not “for” the photo-op, the crowd clearing was going to happen anyway. Another lefty lie, or at BEST mind-reading…

            If you honestly won’t even admit that he’s at least mixed bag who has taken us in a libertarian direction on fronts that we almost NEVER move on, then YOU might be an idiot.

            1. as a whole package, he was a disaster. you can’t do a handful of things, ignore every other principle libertarians stand for, and get to pretend you are a libertarian. i’m sorry you seem to buy the GOP propaganda on so much of it. that not everything he has done has been completely terrible is not how you define “mixed bag.”

              as for the taxes, i will explain it again…… if you know it will require tax hikes in the future you don’t do it. it is, in fact, a tax hike….. it is just a tax hike on your children. at some point, the tax rate will have to go even higher than if we had done nothing to pay for this irresponsible action. I’m glad you are content to have the government rob your kids at gunpoint so you can “have your money now,” but i am not. if you say the spending can’t be cut then you are surrendering to the tax rate required to pay for it. anything less is taxing your children. it really is that simple. taxation is theft, but that does not change if you steal more from future generations instead. there ain’t no thing as a free lunch, and that includes cutting your taxes without reducing spending first. you can’t claim the tax cuts as moving in a libertarian direction because the way it was done will require more government theft in the future.

              1. You were the whining about how he raised taxes on rich folks in absurd states. Not him.

                You also clearly didn’t read his response, which indicates that it was a bit too high brow for you to follow. I will try to use more monosyllabic words in the future with you.

          2. “oh wait……. next line……. when you say tax cuts, what you mean is he was able to effectively raise taxes in blue states, by making those people you don’t like pay more in state taxes….. how libertarian….”

            Why is it my job to subsidize the prolifigate spending of NY? Why should a low tax state have to give money to high tax states? These people think those laws and taxes are just….they should be HAPPY to pay them.

            1. point was he tries to claim tax cuts in the first breath, and then touts tax increases in the next one……. because we don’t like blue states….. very libertarian position.

      4. if you think we made Biden win, you need to earn our votes back…… insulting us for it will accomplish the opposite.

        No you got this wrong. The libertarian party need to earn our (republican) votes back. Otherwise your vote will always = nothing. Further – if you don’t want to join us. You can still share in our punishment… from the Democrats.

        1. Yeah, at this point, time for Republicans to simply eschew all libertarian principles. Electoral losers and the few idiots who profess to support them will still vote Democrat.

    11. Eat shit. If Donald Trump wanted me to vote for him maybe he should have tried being a politician that I like and supported policies I prefer. The only one responsible for him not being good enough to vote for his him.

      1. A vote for Trump is a vote against Biden. You don’t have to like Trump. But if you are pro communism or something – like a … “communist libertarian” or an oxymoron of your choice, vote for Jorgensen, then have a little celebration about the 1% of the vote that you scored, while the rest of the nation ushers in equality/equity extremism.

        1. If EVERY libertarian in my state had voted for Trump he still would have lost the state. So how the fuck is this about libertarians?

          It’s past due for the “major” parties to take responsibility for their own fuckups. Blaming others is no doubt emotionally comforting but you’d be better off learning from your mistakes and correcting them.

          1. In states where they covered the gap, “pro” liberty libertarians certainly share responsibility for voting against freedom if Biden wins.

          2. Here is the problem. If we (republicans) had your ideal candidate, we would get about 1% of the vote! LOLOL! So we aren’t going to have your ideal candidate. There will be a large abundance of moderates, that you guys don’t like, that will partake in the republican party. If you don’t like that you don’t have to vote for us. BUT – either way, you still get to share in our punishment – from the democrats!

        2. You don’t have to like Trump.

          Good, because I fucking hate Trump. He’s one of the worst excuses for a politician to ever grace national politics, and that’s a pretty low bar that has included literal murderers and more than a few child molesters. Do I like Joe Biden? Hell no! That’s why I didn’t vote for the walking corpse shield of Kamala “Shoot The Dog” Harris. Republicans need to own the fact that their candidate is SO BAD that he’s not even worth voting for just to spite Biden/Harris. You could have picked anyone. You could have nominated a dog. You could have just nominated “no one” and left those podiums empty at the debates and the oval office barren. But you didn’t. You chose a scandal ridden big government liberal from New York to run your party. Sincerely, fuck you.

    12. Nasty executive orders from Biden or nasty executive orders from Trump, our country continues to elect the same politicians that add to the issues we face by not addressing the root of the problems. It just depends on the issue you look at. Neither one will solve any problems we are facing, and almost half Americans realize that. Sure, let’s blame it on the 1.1% who voted for Jorgensen and ignore the 40-45% who don’t vote because they don’t subscribe to the evils perpetuated by both the Dems and the Repubs.

    13. IT WAS HIS TURN!

    14. Nope. If Trump lost this election its all on him (and voter fraud).

      1. Whatever you say – enjoy socialism, Libertarian! LOL

        1. Sorry, to break it to you but socialism has already existed in the U.S. and Trump didn’t do anything about it while he was in office.

          1. Right. So because some socialism is already here, you are going to refrain from siding with the party in opposition to greatly expanding it. Got it.

            1. It’s funny how the party that’s allegedly opposed to socialism is spending government money at record levels, and was doing so even before the pandemic. We have socialism for the rich, with bailouts, subsidies and other transfers of wealth from people to corporations…which then distribute that money to their executives and shareholders so they can cry poor whenever they get in trouble.

        2. Yes I’m sure my one little vote contributed to Socialism winning in America. You “blame the voters” people just don’t know how to be persuasive do you?

          1. I voted against furthering socialism. What did you do?

    15. The only philosophy that says “live and let live” and really means it, is the libertarian philosophy. Liberals and conservatives are equally bad, just in different ways. Any candidate is only entitled to the votes they have EARNED. If you don’t like the number of votes that went to Jo Jorgensen, your candidate has nobody to blame but themself.

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  2. Totes libertarian moment.

    1. Just imagine if she was actually a good candidate.

      1. Just imagine if the Republicans and/or the Democrats actually had a good candidate.

        1. Given the returns, even most libertarians thought Trump was a better candidate than Gary Johnson or Jo Jorgensen…

          1. Most libertarians I’ve come across who voted for Johnson in 2016 and are changing their vote this round, are voting Biden primarily because they don’t think Trump is good for this country. Even most votes for Trump in general are to keep Biden (who they feel is a socialist) out of the White House. Just like most presidential elections, it unfortunately comes down to voting for the lesser of two evils or trying keep “the other guy” out. I highly doubt it has anything to do with Trump (or Biden) being a better candidate.

            1. Fair enough, but “better” IS relative…and a candidate has 0% chance of getting elected may be a good libertarian, but not a very good candidate.

              1. If settling for the lesser evil has led us to a choice like this what use is settling? At some point people get fed up with compromising. Trump was that point for me. He’s a lefty fraudster. He doesn’t have a conservative bone in his body and where before 2016 anyone with two functioning brain cells could have surmised that from his colorful past now in 2020 we can see that truth from experience. He not only hasn’t done anything to reduce the size of government. He has accelerated the transformation of the executive branch into a government all its own. Far from being a “great negotiator” he has done nothing but throw impotent tantrums for four years.

                Donald Trump has nothing to offer libertarians. He doesn’t offer a better version of America than Biden (relative or otherwise). They are both so unbelievably bad that the only sane thing to do is douse yourself in gasoline on the white house steps and immolate yourself rather than pick between them. For the rest of us there’s Jo Jorgenson.

        2. Just imagine if the Republicans and/or the Democrats actually had a good candidate.

          There are no good candidates. When you are going to figure this out. Everyone is making a compromise voting. None of the candidates are their ideal. If you vote for your ideal, you will not win. If compromise, you might. This is how elections have been going on in the US since it’s inception. This is how democracy works. If you sit around waiting for a good democrat or republican candidate to come along that is your ideal, you will never vote, and society will culturally take you to places you don’t want to go in the meantime.

          1. I think you need to teach the value of compromise to the Democrats and Republicans in Congress, not a libertarian.
            As a voter, I’ve recently understood that my past compromises towards the Republican Party has gotten us nowhere and a compromise towards the Democratic Party would get us in the same spot. Therefore, in elections over the last 4 years, I’ve been voting based on my values and not on the possibility to win. The Republican Party has moved more and more away from the values of a libertarian and has diminished the “value” of that compromise.

            1. Your commitment to the libertarian party has also gotten you nothing, and they move further from liberty every year.

            2. As a voter, I’ve recently understood that my past compromises towards the Republican Party has gotten us nowhere

              Except you don’t know that. If the democrat had been elected instead of the republican party you are claiming got you nowhere, things could have been very different.

              I’ve been voting based on my values and not on the possibility to win. The Republican Party has moved more and more away from the values of a libertarian and has diminished the “value” of that compromise.

              Right. And how is the libertarian party working out for you?

  3. The bigger story is how corrupt democrats are ballot stuffing even now and the bootlicking media isn’t investigating. They are still accepting ballots in some places and we all know they are fraudulent. But whatever right? LP got 1% and that’s the story.

    1. Not investigating? They’re in on it. The media is there to provide cover.

    2. After telling us for the last several weeks that Biden had a 90% chance of winning, you think they’re about to let a silly little election make them look stupid?

    1. Your failure to even tell us what that link is about is a sign to me to ignore it as propaganda

      1. That’s a bit.ly link. Copy the link, add a + at the end if you are curious, and the link-shortening service will preview the page safely for you. Turns out it’s Get Rich Quick spam, not propaganda, but I doubt that is of interest, either.

  4. Did any of the Reason staff vote for her?

    1. Yes, most of the ones that vote did.

      1. Did it do any good?

  5. “ahead of all third-party candidates in every state”

    Tallest midget

  6. Not winning is wining for libertarians. here is your participation trophy Libertarians

    1. You overlook the fact had it not been for the LP, the concept of libertarianism would still be unknow by the vast majority of people

      There is more at stake than simply winning as you suggest

      1. I think you’re confusing Ron Paul for the LP…

        1. You realize a good half the electorate doesn’t even remember Ron Paul’s notable campaign at this point, right?

          1. That’s probably true. But many (if not most) younger libertarians (myself included, depending on your definition of “younger”) were only introduced to libertarian philosophy solely because of Ron Paul.

    2. If people don’t want what we’re selling, that’s not a reason for me to vote for someone I don’t agree with. I will always vote for the candidate I want, compromise your morals all you want, explain away all the fucked up shit they support, but don’t get butthurt when your candidate loses, I was never going to vote for them anyway.

      1. Ah, so you’re just a bitter child who hates people in general

        1. Hahaha, what the f are you talking about?

      2. If people don’t want what we’re selling, that’s not a reason for me to vote for someone I don’t agree with. I will always vote for the candidate I want, compromise your morals all you want, explain away all the fucked up shit they support, but don’t get butthurt when your candidate loses, I was never going to vote for them anyway.

        Democrats are diametrically opposed to libertarians. The republicans weren’t your perfect candidate, but it’s okay you didn’t want to join us – you can still share in our punishment… from the Democrats. They think libertarian’s are just tea bagging right wing extremists.

    3. Yes, because in this instance winning is most important. Not voting for your values or voting for the person that most represents who you want as president.
      If your candidate wins, I’d love to hear from you about what has actually changed for the better for Americans over the next 4 years. Because for every one thing that you find that is for the better I will find three more that hurt liberty and free-market capitalism, whether it’s from Trump or Biden.

      1. Let’s see.

        For me – for the last 4 years.
        – None of my guns were banned. And I have some exotic guns.
        – I don’t have to be punished for not buying healthcare anymore.
        – My tax return is shorter, because I don’t have to bother with obamacare.
        – I got a tax reduction and paid lower taxes.
        – I didn’t get drafted in any wars and neither did the rest of the US.
        – During the pandemic, Trump didn’t go full democrat and try to lockdown the entire US and pull rank on everyone that desired to be left alone.
        – I got to go about my life, doing virtually whatever I want to do unabated.
        – I didn’t get taxed for “carbon foot prints” or other BS. And I wasn’t penalized for my home not meeting green new deal requirements.
        – I wasn’t pushed to buy an electric car.
        – I wasn’t laid off because the government was forcefully trying to “transition away from oil.”
        – I didn’t have to be the target of discrimination lawsuits because I didn’t want to hire a sexless alien as a saleman, among other aggressive cultural attacks.

      2. Greenfinch thinks voting for a marxist is principled…

  7. Congrats to the LP. Take a week off to celebrate. And keep building.

    imo the best thing to do right NOW is to build the LP into an organization that is not focused on elections and maybe not even politics. with the obvious contraint that it is a political party. The model I’m thinking is actually the old-fashioned machine (without the corruption) or the even older-fashioned civic association of de Toqueville. An organization that helps its members find jobs, build businesses, get involved with their local peeps, solve problems without requiring elections to do so, etc. The stuff that has more value between elections than on elections – and to its members than to its candidates. In a year or so focus on elections/candidates again.

    Hopefully not merely a venue to talk yet more politics. That goes nowhere. And just makes the current DeRp problem worse.

    1. Tough for a Party that does not believe in parties to succeed.

      1. Only tough if winning elections is the only purpose of that organization.

        It is however probably the difference between classical liberal and libertarian.

        Civil associations, therefore, facilitate political association; but, on the other hand, political association singularly strengthens and improves associations for civil purposes. In civil life every man may, strictly speaking, fancy that he can provide for his own wants; in politics he can fancy no such thing. When a people, then, have any knowledge of public life, the notion of association and the wish to coalesce present themselves every day to the minds of the whole community; whatever natural repugnance may restrain men from acting in concert, they will always be ready to combine for the sake of a party. Alexis deToqueville

        The LP could easily be a voluntary civil association that finds expression in politics as merely the vehicle to make voluntary civil associations more viable. That’s not the same thing as a talking shop of hermits, misanthropes, and anarchists.

    2. This is an interesting idea. The libertarian organization that actually does the most real-world good right now is the Institute for Justice.

      We have this civics class ideal of government in our heads, but things don’t work that way. The people who run for office are egomaniacs reenacting student council, while the actual business of government is mostly done by unelected bureaucrats who only need the egomaniacs to occasionally rubber-stamp things.

      An organization that actually impacts the operations of government is more useful to the average citizen than one that comes in 1% in the honorary ribbon-cutter contest.

      1. Agree. Plus doing things differently and making them happen between elections helps change the agenda and credibility during the elction window. Just as an example, I can see an org doing this stuff getting far more tech savvy and decentralized and accountable and transparent in having to do it. All of is not a bad way to add those four skillsets to LP during elections. Not that it would become the Pirate Party or somesuch – but there is overlap there

    3. Sort of a decentralized version of Galt’s Gulch? I kind of like that idea.

      1. Galt’s Gulch? Where did that even come from? JFree and chemjeff are sooooo the same fucking person.

        1. They are leftist libertarians. If such a thing can be conceived.

          1. Leftists posing as “edgy”

  8. OK, did I miss the part where she gets even one actual electoral college vote?
    Because that is all that matters.

    1. 0 is still a second-place finish in the Libertarian Party.

  9. I’m so proud the LP is able to do worse than last time…against the two worst candidates to ever run…in the SAME race.

    If only the LP were able to run someone as charismatic as H. Ross Perot…for crying out loud…

    1. I’m so proud the LP is able to do worse than last time…against the two worst candidates to ever run…in the SAME race.

      But this time, it looks like the LP really did act as the spoiler vote and is giving Biden the presidency. Something to be proud of for the LP!

      1. We weren’t going to vote for your shit candidates anyway. I’d just skip it altogether and go straight to eating popcorn and watching the salt from whichever side is losing.

        1. I’d just skip it altogether and go straight to eating popcorn and watching the salt from whichever side is losing.

          OK, so you’re a fool. That’s one of the two major groups making up the LP.

          We weren’t going to vote for your shit candidates anyway.

          They’re not “my shit candidates”. I used to be a registered Democrat but became an independent. I voted LP a couple of times, but it is obvious that the LP does not pursue libertarianism as its policy objective. And that’s why I’m not going to support the LP anymore in its current form.

          1. it is obvious that the LP does not pursue libertarianism as its policy objective.

            Thisism thatism. You want the LP to be a church. And I suspect you are totally intolerant as to what that ism actually is in real life. Like – ‘its never actually existed anywhere in the world’ intolerant.

            Your ism has almost nothing to do with the very simple expression of NAP that is at the core of the LP. That you and I don’t have to agree on a damn thing. We just have to resist the notion of imposing that. That is really difficult if you take that seriously.

            Very different from your distorted ancap view of NAP where the obligation is on no one because only government can coerce and only violence is coercion.

            1. You want the LP to be a church. … Your ism has almost nothing to do with the very simple expression of NAP that is at the core of the LP.

              You have it backwards. It’s people who voted for Jorgensen over Trump that treated politics like a religion and didn’t care about what violations of the NAP the Biden administration will rain down on the people of this nation of this nation.

              I couldn’t care less about the label; I’ve simply given up on the LP. The average Republican is better at promoting the NAP and liberty than the LP or most people who identify as “libertarians”.

              1. The LP is not a D or R poodle. YOU are.

                And I was an R for most of my voting life. I quit precisely because I realized that all the bullshit you still believe about the R’s was simply part of the mental manipulation that gets people to stay in the tent.

                Free your mind. Get out of that tent. Smell the fresh air. If in a year, you still want to go back into that swamp at least you will finally be able to be honest about why you are an R.

                1. I quit precisely because I realized that all the bullshit you still believe about the R’s was simply part of the mental manipulation that gets people to stay in the tent.

                  I have never in my life been a Republican, and I have never “stayed in their tent”.

                  And I was an R for most of my voting life.

                  I, on the other hand, recognized Republicans for what they were most of the time: war mongers, hypocrites, and theocrats. I’m not surprised that that’s the party you chose to align with for most of your life.

                  Free your mind. Get out of that tent. Smell the fresh air.

                  You need to take your own advice. You just keep moving from one dirty, rotten tent to another, rather than asking yourself: what are the consequences of my vote going to be?

                  you will finally be able to be honest about why you are an R

                  I’m not “an R” and have never been. I sometimes vote for R’s if it is the best option. I’ve also voted for D’s when that was the best option. I make choices based on what I think is going to be best for advancing the cause of liberty, not based on what candidate or party I happen to agree with most.

                  You say you were a Republican for “most of your voting life”, meaning during the time when Republicans were particularly vile war mongers, autocrats, and hypocrites; that’s what you supported. Finally, you recognized how stupid your choice was, and you made the same stupid choice again by picking another tent to cower under.

      2. So far, I haven’t seen any places where the LP vote would have made the difference (unless you’re assuming ALL of the LP votes would have gone to Trump).

        Regardless, everyone has the right to vote for which slave master (or dom…I’m not judging) they want to whip them…or whip them less (sad sub face). It’s an ethical AND political question…some people are only looking at one side of that equation though.

        1. So far, I haven’t seen any places where the LP vote would have made the difference (unless you’re assuming ALL of the LP votes would have gone to Trump).

          I’m assuming no such thing. I’m simply saying that the LP vote consists of two kinds of people: fools and non-libertarians.

          Regardless, everyone has the right to vote for which slave master (or dom…I’m not judging) they want to whip them…or whip them less (sad sub face). It’s an ethical AND political question…some people are only looking at one side of that equation though.

          If you think that casting a vote for a politician is a reflection of your ethics, you’re obviously in the “fool” category.

          And even if it were, what exactly would it say about your ethics to support Biden and Harris?

          1. I won’t speak on the ethics of what it means to support Biden and Harris because I didn’t support them.

            1. Well, you have about the same ethics as Prelate Kaas: your personal priority is associating with reputable people rather than liberty and justice. That makes you vain and selfish.

  10. Jo Jorgensen Heading Toward Second-Best Result in Libertarian Party History

    Jorgensen substantially beat the spread in NV, MI, and WI. In other words, the choices made by Libertarian voters are responsible for giving Biden the presidency. And for what? Trump and Jorgensen agree 80-90% on policy, while Biden is a typical European-style democratic socialist.

    1. news flash, LP voters do not lean 100% Republican

      1. news flash, LP voters do not lean 100% Republican

        I agree. And what that tells you is that LP voters consist of two group: fools (lean Trump but voted Jorgensen) and democratic socialists (lean Biden but voted Jorgensen).

        So let’s cut the crap: if you voted LP and lean Biden or Democrat, show your true colors and stop voting LP.

        1. So let’s cut the crap: if you voted LP and lean Biden or Democrat, show your true colors and stop voting LP.”

          A juvenile analysis of the situation. How about if my choices were 2 fucks that I didn’t like and I did like the 3rd option, I actually get to pick the 3rd option. If my default was “fuck it, these guys suck, Ill just stay home” but I decided to still not give them my vote and chose a 3rd person I like more, neither of them gained anything or lost anything.

          Gotta love a libertarian site full of people who act like one of the shitty major parties owns their vote as the default and you are taking it away by having the audacity to cast your own ballot.

          “So lets cut the crap,” dont fucking tell me how to vote, if you like the R’s so much go and join their party. Its on them for spending 4 years not attempting to get any more than 44% popularity. Its their job to show up for their candidate.

          1. “So lets cut the crap,” dont fucking tell me how to vote,

            I’m not “telling you how to vote”. I observing that if you “lean Biden” over Trump, your views are fundamentally incompatible with libertarianism. That observation has nothing to do with third party ballots.

            Now, on to the question of third parties: you should vote for the candidate or party who best represents your views in a proportional representation system like Europe has.

            But the US has a winner-take-all system; the rational voting strategy is to determine who you think are the two most likely candidates to win and then, among those, pick the one who best represents your views. Any other voting behavior is rooted in a naive and juvenile misunderstanding of how the US voting system works.

            I’m not telling you how to vote. I’m telling you that you are (1) not a libertarian, and (2) uninformed and irrational.

            1. If you believe a true libertarian leans one way or another, I think you are missing the target of what a true libertarian is. Yes, as a fundamental ideology libertarians typically “lean” towards conservative ideology. However, when you look at the issues at hand one-by-one and look at the candidates put forward by the Republican party election after election you see time and time again they are pushing legislation that violates individual liberty and free-market capitalism.
              And to put the icing on the cake, especially in this election, I could not be content telling my kids and grandkids (exhibited through my vote) that a person like Trump (ideology be damned) is of any value to be representative of what I stand for as a good American or of having any moral or leadership value to be our President. Personal character is the most important “ideal” and I hope my kids and grandkids share this value.

              1. *conservative, free-market ideology.

              2. And by “personal character,” do you mean you chose to vote for the candidate that professed that as libertarians “we must be actively antiracist”?

                …you know, saying that we have to be a monolith in terms of supporting a specific action on individuals’ beliefs on race and racial policy as identified by Ibram X. Kendi…an explicit racist?

                That’s not the kind of “personal character” I want to demonstrate to my kids…

                1. Absolutely. Advocating for someone to personally take up a positive personal value and trying to understand the plight that another individual may go through in their life is very different from advocating for unnecessary regulation and government intervention towards racism/antiracism.

              3. If you believe a true libertarian leans one way or another, I think you are missing the target of what a true libertarian is.

                I agree. You can take that up with McGuffin; he claimed that “true libertarians” lean. I made the point that if you “lean” towards Democrats (or Republicans) you are not a libertarian. People ought to vote based on what is likely to result in the most libertarian outcomes, not because of “leanings”.

                And to put the icing on the cake, especially in this election, I could not be content telling my kids and grandkids (exhibited through my vote) that a person like Trump (ideology be damned) is of any value to be representative of what I stand for as a good American or of having any moral or leadership value to be our President. Personal character is the most important “ideal” and I hope my kids and grandkids share this value.

                If you think that a vote for president is a vote for good character or ideals, you are an ignorant fool. If people like you prevail in US politics, your kids and grand kids will likely spit on your grave for your folly, because folly like that destroys nations.

                And voting based on the perceived character of a presidential candidate is probably the most absurd justification for a libertarian imaginable.

                If there is one thing this election has made crystal clear is what a bunch of fools, socialists, and authoritarians comprise the LP.

            2. You are a deluded moron. Your vote doesn’t mean a damn thing. It doesn’t change the election outcome. You believing that it does is simply stupidity raised to the nth power in service to whatever partisan shit emerges from an R (in your case) toilet.

              1. I’m neither a Republican nor a partisan. I advocate picking the candidate that best advances the cause of liberty in practice, leaving ideology and partisanship aside.

                You, JFree, have admitted that you were a Republican while Republicans were war mongers and theocrats, and instead of learning from your mistake, you just moved from being one kind of dumb partisan to being another kind of dumb partisan.

                (But supporting a useless candidate is still better than supporting a warm monger, so I suppose it’s a step up for you, relatively speaking.)

          2. This place was overrun with disillusioned angry republicans years ago, but it’s usually more entertaining than the articles, since most are lefty shill bullshit. Nick and Nancy are the main reason to still come back.

  11. Alternate headline: LP presidential vote totals drop by two thirds.

  12. You really shouldn’t be bragging about this until you see what kind of President Biden will be.

    So far, Biden has promised to violate our gun rights like no one has before, and he’s promised to reorganize our economy around carbon emissions. And that’s assuming Kamala Harris doesn’t serve out the end of Biden’s term–which will only make matters worse. We may never get out of Afghanistan if Trump loses.

    If Jo Jorgensen is the reason we suffer under authoritarian and socialist policies, will you sill be bragging about how well she did?

    When the White Army was fighting the Bolsheviks, I bet there were the equivalent of libertarians who didn’t want to take sides–because neither side was libertarian.

    And when the Reds won, I bet those libertarians didn’t fare so well.

    1. As long as the Senate is majority Republican, we’re still pretty safe.

      I expect Biden/Harris will make such fools of themselves that we may see a substantial conservative backlash in four years.

      Republicans need to go back to the drawing board and figure out how to communicate better, advocate for liberty and free markets, and fight the propaganda from Democrats more effectively.

      1. “As long as the Senate is majority Republican, we’re still pretty safe.”

        That’s an ironic statement in response to a post questioning why more libertarians didn’t vote for Republicans.

        I voted for the Libertarian and hence a socialist president, but that’s okay because the Republicans won, that seems a little self-contradictory at least.

        1. That’s an ironic statement in response to a post questioning why more libertarians didn’t vote for Republicans.

          I agree with you that LP voters have been fools in their choices and that a Biden presidency could have been bad. But that’s not the issue.

          Your post predicted that as a result we will “suffer under authoritarian and socialist policies”, and that’s simply wrong: as long as the Senate is in Republican hands, that’s not going to happen. We’re looking at four years of political gridlock, that’s all. It’s not my preferred outcome, but it’s something we can live with.

          For people who actually care about libertarianism and liberty, the choice is pretty clear at this point: get involved in the Republican party and influence it towards more libertarian policies.

          The LP itself has proven itself to be worthless for libertarian causes, at least at the national level.

          1. Gridlock is an extremely optimistic outlook.
            What is more likely is that we’re looking at the beginning of a totalitarian one party state.
            USSA.
            They stole the election in full view of the world, and are getting rid of the one person who’s actually stood up to the deep state.
            Build back better, for the new normal.

            1. What is more likely is that we’re looking at the beginning of a totalitarian one party state. USSA.

              I don’t see how. SCOTUS is leaning conservative, the Senate has a Republican majority, and the majority of state governments are Republican.

              They stole the election in full view of the world,

              Democratic voter fraud is nothing new and Republicans still win. If the election had been fair, Trump would have narrowly won. But Trump made a lot of mistakes too; he could have won in a landslide even with Democratic voter fraud.

              Republicans need to get back to the drawing board and figure out how to do better next time.

              Biden is such an idiot and Harris is such a nasty person that Republicans should have a much easier time winning against them in four years.

  13. I’m pleasantly surprised Jo broke over 1 million votes. But let’s not discount the fact that something more than 50% of LP votes are cast by non-Libertarians who are unhappy with both of the major choices. In 2016, in one county I’m familiar with, the LP votes were about 4 times higher than the LP registration. Many are voters who would go back to a major party if that party made any attempt to include them in the tent. If either major party believes the LP is “taking away their votes” then they need to start making overtures.

    1. this is the realistic goal. ultimately, we all want someone like Jorgensen in the white house, but if she can get enough votes to impact the outcome at all then suddenly what attracted those people to us becomes important.

      1. This is assuming, of course, that the Democrats don’t win and:

        – Pack the SCOTUS (which they’ve promised to do)
        – Unilaterally “admit” Puerto Rico (and it’s DEBT), D.C. (which is unConstitutional), and any other place they damned well please (which they’ve said they want to do)
        – Gerrymander every district they can (which happens every time a new party takes over)

        …all in an effort to prevent ANY other party from ever taking power again…

        1. And how are they going to do that without the Senate?

          1. What did you do to stop them from taking the Senate if you did nothing to stop them from taking the Presidency? Remember, this was all voted on at the same time…

            1. I don’t understand what you’re asking. The outcome of the election is almost certainly that Biden wins the presidency and Republicans hold the Senate. Therefore, no court packing and no new states. Neither the president nor the Senate have anything to do with gerrymandering.

        2. yes….. keep trying to scare people after it has become clear that your nightmare hypothetical is not even possible anymore…… maybe people will remember and not buy your BS next time.

  14. She’s also beating the Trump-Biden spread in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Nevada

    So all that means is she may not have taken enough Biden voters to make a difference, despite her best efforts.

    1. It means she did take enough Trump voters to make a difference.

      We know that because in terms of policy, Jorgensen and Trump are very close.

      1. Libertarians say screwing over the side closest to them will make that side choose more libertarian policy.
        So what should Trump have capitulated on?
        They was 80-85% agreement, at least according to the candidate survey I saw.
        So I guess libertarians would’ve wanted Trump to be more actively antiracist (aka racist marxist)…

        1. So what should Trump have capitulated on?

          I don’t think Trump should have “capitulated” on anything.

          I think LP voters need to compromise, rather than behaving like autistic teenagers.

  15. Jo Jorgensen Heading Toward Second-Best Result in Libertarian Party History

    I guess that’s a positive way to spin a 12-way tie for second place with 0 electoral votes.

  16. So either Jorgenson helped Biden get his margin of victory or she is the least irrelevant of all the utterly irrelevant candidates.

    Bravo.

  17. Thanks reason. The libritarian party has gotten 10 times the coverage post election than they did pre election

  18. This is not just a moment to praise Jo Jorgensen and Spike Cohen, but the entire campaign staff. This election was different than the last three in that our nominee didn’t bring their own consultants and the campaign was staffed by a who’s-who of Libertarian activists and leaders from the past 25 years.

    Even though it was a step down from the 2016 campaign. They still exceeded Gary Johnson’s first run for the White House.

    This is a statement that the Libertarian Party is improving, getting more professional, and doing more with less money, without the hired guns of outside consultants running the show.

    Future Libertarian presidential candidates, be they home grown, or refugees from old parties, should take note of this and look to build from there.

    1. 50 years of fucking up is certainly something to be proud of, Shawn.

      1. 50 years of standing up for the ideals of individual liberty is something to be proud of. The fact that our country continues to be statist retards hoping “muh gubmints” will fix things is what to be disheartened about.

        1. You haven’t stood up for a damn thing, dirk, you’ve just huddled in the corner and jerked each other off.

          If your vote had a chance to influence this specific election and you didn’t vote for Trump, you’ve actively participated in destroying freedom in this country.

      2. All that money spent will get them their long-desired second electoral vote ever… just you wait.

  19. To all the fuckwit libertarians who voted for Jo Jorgensen… if we have to endure another four years with this pathological sociopath of a president, it is absolutely, positively your fault.

    The fact that you are bragging about her “beating the spread” is exactly the problem. Your vote was needed to get this lunatic out of the white house and yet you threw it away to prove some bullshit political point.

    1. Well this makes me feel a bit better. So thank you

    2. To all the fuckwit libertarians who voted for Jo Jorgensen… if we have to endure another four years with this pathological sociopath of a president, it is absolutely, positively your fault.

      Biden/Harris have won. You can probably thank Jo Jorgensen for that, since she likely took more votes away from Trump than from Biden. So I don’t see what you are complaining about.

      We can now look forward to four years with a senile imbecile and his racist sociopathic sidekick. I hope you’ll enjoy it.

      1. I pray to god you’re right… and I’ll take this senile imbecile over a deluded fascist psychopath with gratitude.

        1. I pray to god you’re right… and I’ll take this senile imbecile over a deluded fascist psychopath with gratitude.

          Biden is just a figurehead; his senility and imbecility just makes him easy to control.

          The Biden/Harris and Democratic party platform is literally mostly identical to that of 20th century fascists, on economics, race, and state power. That is what you support.

    3. Don’t be an asshole.

    4. If Trump had a commanding victory, the gloating here that the LP is unnecessary, and we should all get on the winning team of reforming the Republican party would have been in full swing. If Trump loses, much the same.

      And especially given libertarianism is all about personal autonomy, blaming someone for the actions of others is about as antithetical as they come.

      You are no libertarian.

    5. If there was no LP candidate, my alternative plan was to write in Daffy Duck and Buggs Bunny. No way was I ever planning to vote for Trump or Biden

      1. You may deserve the leftist totalitarianism you irrationally acquiesce to, but not everyone else does.

        The Party thanks you for your virtue, comrade.

        1. Plenty of people are voting against Trump because they feel he is the totalitarian. After all, he is a nationalist who opposes free trade, is a xenophobe, and he hates the free press. All depends on the point of view.

          1. Point of view and delusion…only one of those things is true (opposing free trade), the other two are creations of the corporate media and their political arm in the DNC.

          2. “There is no objective truth, comrade!”

            1. I just hope I’m not on your murder list.

              1. I’m not who you should be worried about, dumbass.

        2. If there were no libertarian-leaning candidate on ballot I’d just write in “taxation is theft”. My body, my vote.

      2. Daffy might be an illegal immigrant, and not eligible. He’s been known to migrate. Bugs is from Brooklyn.

        1. As non-humans, they aren’t citizens, therefore they are ineligible…

    6. If Joe Biden lost this election to a “deluded fascist psychopath” (quoting you) that’s entirely on him.

      Moreover, we disagree with your candidate on almost every issue. And we’re skeptical of his “conversion” on issues like criminal justice reform. Why in God’s name would we vote for your candidate over anyone else other than the Greens and other leftwing parties?

  20. President Harris should reward Jo with an ambassadorship or somethin’. Maybe make her a capo in the camps.

    1. The LP- the party everyone loves to hate, including Libertarians.

      1. As the contextual background went from “It’s a free country.” to “You aren’t allowed to go to Church.” the party went from “End the Fed, the FBI, the CIA, Foreign Wars, the Department Of Education, Welfare, Regulatory Capture, and anything else I missed.” to “If you want to own a business, you gotta bake gay wedding cakes.”

        As persnickety as Libertarians can be, you’ve gotta admit that the party has earned some hate.

    2. Harris’s only path to the presidency for Biden to die in office. Not saying it’s unlikely, but unless she comes down with a new personality between now and 2024, she won’t be elected at the top of the ticket.

  21. A choice between Trump and Clinton become a choice between Trump and Biden. Jo Jorgensen isn’t even a footnote so the real conversation… where’s a comfortable place to sit with a stiff drink watch the U.S. go the way of Great Britain?

    1. No, it was a choice between Trump and totalitarianism.

      How the fuck do you idiots live in so much denial?

      1. Pretty sure I saw some other names on the ballots. Sorry cheeto elvis didn’t win. Womp womp?

      2. Ah, yes, those infamous totalitarians of history: Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Castro, and uh…Joe Biden, apparently.

        1. Well, to be fair, the American incarcerated population RAPIDLY grew after Biden was elected to the Senate…and then he drafted the Senate version of the ’94 crime bill…and then he picked Kamala Harris as his VP. The characterization may be premature, but his history doesn’t bode well for liberty loving individuals.

          1. Oh, Biden is a typical authoritarian Democrat, no doubt. But the word “totalitarian” has a meaning, and Joe ain’t it.

            1. You claiming the left isn’t totalitarian?

              1. Apparently, he thinks a senile old man is going to be a bulwark against the entirety of leftist totalitarianism.

                1. Nope, I never said nor implied that.

              2. Nope, I stated that Biden isn’t a totalitarian. Stated it pretty clearly, too.

                But if you’d like to talk about “the left”, let’s. Who are you describing when you talk about “the left”? Democratic congresspeople? Democratic voters? Anti-fa? Anarcho-communists? Socialists? Depending on your definition, you’re calling potentially tens of millions of Americans “totalitarian”, which is simply not true. So be specific.

                1. I will happily call everybody who voted for Biden a totalitarian and if 9/11 happened to day, I’d likely be applauding the demise of the Twin Towers and the ruination of NYC.

                  Fuck. Them. All.

                  1. Siding with jihadists to own the libs. It’s creative, I’ll give you that.

                    1. I see no difference. Progressives are just as demanding of running my life as jihadists are. Jihadists are less racist and a touch less anti-Semitic, though.

                      And there is nothing you can do viciously to NYC that they haven’t had coming. Hell, carpet bomb SF and I’ll demand nomination for sainthood.

                2. Missed all of 2020, did you?

  22. If the percentages suck, lead with the raw numbers.

    If the raw numbers suck, lead with the percentages.

    1. If the percentages *and* the raw numbrs suck, find a rate that looks good.

      If that fails, pander to a popular metric that’s essentially meaningless.

  23. So if any of the states in question go to Trump, Jo will be blamed for that. Who would you rather have hate you more, Trumptards or Progtards?

    1. Backwards. Libertarian votes are the property of the Republican Party. If Trump loses on the margins it’s the fault of libertarians who forgot who their masters are.

    2. They both hate us, sometimes we agree with them on an issue, but we almost always get there for different reasons. It’s why we’re generally incompatible, and the conversion to libertarianism is a long, hard, lonely road.

      Individual liberty is a conquest worth fighting for though.

      1. You’re doing a bang up job…

  24. Celebrating the little things.

    1. Yep. I mean, I’m familiar with the expression, “You gotta start somewhere,” but is this really some kind of triumph? Given what would appear to be the record number of votes cast, it seems like you could 1.14 percent through simple voter error.

      1. And they’ve been trying for DECADES and this is the second best they’ve had?

        Fuck, Ross Perot got more votes than the last few LP candidates combined.

    2. Most people don’t consider the holocaust a ‘little thing’.

  25. People who vote LP but register in another party may do so where winning one of the Duopoly party’s primaries for local offices is tantamount to election. There are highly competitive states and uncompetitive ones, and the same for localities. Trump himself was long a registered Democrat, as many otherwise conservative New Yorkers are, just to be able to vote for the least worst donkey in local elections. Also, party registration is a matter of public record in NY, and a real estate developer who needs favors from elected or appointed partisans might blackball a “registered Republican.” This is not the system in all states, of course.

  26. If Jorgensen turns out to be a spoiler who gives Biden the presidency (as Ralph Nadar did in 2000), I (and many other libertarians) will not forgive the Libertarian Party or the idiots at Reason who endorsed Jorgensen (knowing she could be the spoiler for Biden).

    Democrats successfully sued to keep the Green Party’s presidential nominee off of the ballot in more than a dozen states (including PA and WI), which also helped Biden.

    1. The Dems’ anti-Green Party litigation should be thrown in their faces every time they complain about our “undemocratic electoral system.” They are perfectly fine with restricting democratic choice when it is in their perceived interest to do so.

    2. I don’t understand the point of blaming the voters over blaming the politicians. Al Gore wasn’t a very good candidate in 2000 who made terrible choices, that loss is entirely on him. The voters are not responsible for Al Gore running a crap campaign and not being very good candidate.

      This election I can accept that there may have been voter fraud and corruption in places like Philadelphia (because it wouldn’t be the first time). But blaming the voters for not liking your candidate is completely irrational. It’s the job of the Politician to appeal to the voters. The voters owe the Politicians nothing beyond being openminded to their arguments.

  27. Though 1.14 percent marks a steep drop-off from Gary Johnson’s 3.28 percent in 2016, there are several reasons for the L.P. to see the glass half-full in these results. For one, Jorgensen beat every other third-party and independent candidate in all 50 states and the District of Columbia.

    For another this was with pretty much zero media coverage, even from ostensibly libertarian media sources.

  28. “If you vote for Jorgensen, you’re wasting your vote!”

    “If you voted for Jorgensen, you’re responsible for the outcome of this election!”

    Gah, pick one.

    1. Team [insert color here] always needs additional scapegoats. They already hate [other_team] to the point they’re seething piles of emotion, so finding other groups to vent their rage at is expected. This happens every 4 years by the losing side.

  29. “Jo Jorgensen had already received the second-highest number of votes in her party’s 49-year history: 1.58 million and counting.”

    If Hollywood wants to make a movie about this, they should cast the girl in the movie, “Chasing Amy.” A hair dye and she’d look pretty close to Jorgensen.

    1. Joey Lauren Adams? No. But take a look at the final convention scene – her girlfriend is a dead ringer for Jorgensen.

  30. I don’t know why people are upset with libertarian voters who were never going to vote for Trump (or Biden) anyway.

    Be upset at Nebraska’s second district. If, as looks kinda likely right now, Biden wins with a bare 270 majority of the electoral college, Nebraska’s 2nd district voting for Trump would have caused a 269-269 tie. Now that would have been entertaining.

    1. I don’t know why people are upset with libertarian voters who were never going to vote for Trump (or Biden) anyway.

      Personally, as a libertarian, I agree with Jorgensen on policy somewhat more than I agree with Trump (the two are pretty close). In a winner-take-all system, that means voting for Trump, not Jorgensen, since you need to take other voters into account.

      If we had a European-style multi-party system, the LP would be a viable party and I would have voted for the LP. The LP then would have formed a coalition with the Republicans and the coalition would have chosen Trump as president.

      There simply is no scenario under which an ideology that is favored by maybe 10-20% of the population gets to fill the presidency. Under any system, parties like the LP can influence the major parties, not take over. And under the US system, if you vote for your preferred candidate, rather than your preferred candidate under the top two choices, you might as well not vote at all.

  31. The Libertarian party needs to keep fielding a candidate to stay on the national ballot, but they need to focus and actually spend some money on local elections. If they would spend money wisely on local elections they could actually win, they gain legitimacy. Then they can work on a Congressional block and eventually state-wide campaigns to establish a Senatorial block.

    Focusing on a presidency that is never going to happen is pointless.

    I voted against Jorgensen because of her anti-facist screed, but I voted Libertarian ticket the rest of the ballot here in Texas.

    1. The Libertarian party needs to keep fielding a candidate to stay on the national ballot,

      In multi-party systems, minority parties like the LP compromise with major parties on appointments like prime minister (“president”). That is what the LP should do at the national level: throw their weight behind one presidential candidate or the other, in exchange for compromise and support with that party at the local and state level.

      You want to get out of the two-party system and have national influence? That’s the way. Anything else is utter folly.

      1. in exchange for compromise and support with that party at the local and state level.

        … and possibly a cabinet-level position.

        1. Preferably Secretary of Commerce or the Treasury.

          1. It’d be smart. But they think winning the WH and having zero support in Congress is a solid gameplan, so I doubt the smart thing is an option.

            1. Yeah, that’s also left me scratching my head. I mean, what halfway rational person thinks they will just sweep into the WH and get an administration running in a few months, with no backing, no political connections, no managers to call on.

      2. I can only see this working in the scenario where a Libertarian candidate is already running highly competitive against that major party candidate. I seen no reason why the Rs and the Ds won’t just continue to “tighten” ballot access rules to third parties rather than compromise with us.

        Libertarians should work to throw their funding towards local and state wide races. Then in the races they win agree to caucus with which ever party will support their goals and proposals, then come to an agreement regarding support for the next election. Basically what Bernie Sanders and Angus King have been doing years.

        1. Libertarians should work to throw their funding towards local and state wide races. Then in the races they win agree to caucus with which ever party will support their goals and proposals, then come to an agreement regarding support for the next election.

          That’s pretty much the same thing I’m saying: stop going after the presidency and focus on state and local; even there, focus on winnable races.

  32. I like how fast the comments went from “oh no, libertarians might have elected Dementia Joe” to the usual bloviation about defining the Purity Test for real libertarians. You maroons are unbelievable, but hey, if it helps you to ignore your guilt about sending America another turn down the toilet….

    1. Yet I felt good after filling out my ballot.

  33. When the Democrats finish building their Tholian web of censorship and Reason itself gets booted from Twitter and elsewhere for “disinformation” (i.e. wrong opinions) and “speech-is-violence” I will be here to remind you that you and Jo brought this upon yourselves, and upon the rest of the country.

    1. I think it’s best to think of the LP as non-libertarians and useful idiots.

      If you actually care about libertarian principles and policy objectives, the better path right now is to join the Republican party and work from within.

      1. We tried that.

        1. We didn’t just try it, it has worked pretty well and has accomplished far more than the LP ever has.

          1. Not for me.

            Y’all lost me.

            I recall Buckley Reagan conservatives. You do not exist. You sold your soul.

            1. I recall Buckley Reagan conservatives. You do not exist.

              I have never been a Republican. I’m considering joining them now because I think there is a generational change and a genuine opportunity for advancing libertarian causes in the Republican party right now.

              What has become clear to me over the last few years, and in particular in this election, is that the LP is worse than useless in advancing libertarian causes.

              You sold your soul.

              I haven’t yet, but at least I have a soul to offer. Do you? Didn’t think so.

            2. “…Y’all lost me…”

              No, we told you to fuck off and die, ‘tard.

  34. One of the few nonpartisan academic studies of the Libertarian vote concluded that most people vote for third parties as a protest against the Demopublicans. A Libertarian voter is not necessarily a libertarian, and some Democratic and Republican voters are libertarians, as we learned from the _Reason_ staff’s picks.

  35. She got 2 million less votes than Johnson, while Trump’s brand of nationalism made small gains among minorities. In states like FL Latinos turned out for Trump. Jorgensen was totally irrelevant and failed to make any gains even though a chunk of white male voters abandoned Trump.

    The big loser of this election were libertarians. Because the GOP had better than expected showings than Trump in house races and even the senate, not even the democrats can simply discount the MAGA spirit. A narrow loss would encourage the republicans to transplant Trump’s messaging onto more stable candidates, rather than go back to the tea party movement of the Obama era.

    Drugs and criminal justice reform are trending because even republicans can favor it. Free trade and economy without tariffs, not so much.

    1. You fucking retards. Haven’t even been reading here for awhile, but Congrats on helping push the country towards actual socialism! I just voted for somebody other than the Libertarian candidate for pres for the first time in my life, and it wasn’t Biden!

      Ls have hit the crack pipe too hard on a few issues to even have them be a “clean conscience” vote, so I voted for Trump.

      Now look, I’ve lived in 2 states where my vote never mattered, which is why I never felt bad doing the protest vote thing… But people in swing states: WTF is wrong with you! Anybody who can’t see that the Dems are 1000 times worse than Rs in 2020 is insane.

      So thanks retard Ls in swing states! If the civil war doesn’t kick off over this shit I’m going to be soooooo grateful to you as my taxes get jacked, my guns are made illegal, and all my freedom is stripped away!

  36. The big loser of this election were libertarians

    No, the big loser was the Libertarian Party; that’s something very different.

    Free trade and economy without tariffs, not so much.

    The LP doesn’t promote “free trade”, it promotes absence of tariffs and borders.

    A narrow loss would encourage the republicans to transplant Trump’s messaging onto more stable candidates, rather than go back to the tea party movement of the Obama era.

    I see it the same way. Unlike you, I think that’s a good development, both for the country and for libertarianism.

  37. You fucking retards. Haven’t even been reading here for awhile, but Congrats on helping push the country towards actual socialism! I just voted for somebody other than the Libertarian candidate for pres for the first time in my life, and it wasn’t Biden!

    Ls have hit the crack pipe too hard on a few issues to even have them be a “clean conscience” vote, so I voted for Trump.

    Now look, I’ve lived in 2 states where my vote never mattered, which is why I never felt bad doing the protest vote thing… But people in swing states: WTF is wrong with you! Anybody who can’t see that the Dems are 1000 times worse than Rs in 2020 is insane.

    So thanks retard Ls in swing states! If the civil war doesn’t kick off over this shit I’m going to be soooooo grateful to you as my taxes get jacked, my guns are made illegal, and all my freedom is stripped away!

    1. Fucking retards.

      Says a lot about you.

      Oh you lived in several states where your vote does not count. And where did you learn that your vote does not count? Must have been one of those fucking retard states where you lived with your fellow fucking retards.

      So the rest of us fucking retards need to go to somewhere. Fucking retardistan.

      Oh nobody has ever come after our guns fucking retard.

      1. “Oh nobody has ever come after our guns fucking retard.”

        Fucking ‘tards like E should thank the SCOTUS which is now safely out of Biden’s control.
        But fucking TDS ‘tards like E won’t do so; fucking ‘tards like E are too fucking stupid to do so.
        Fuck off and die, fucking ‘tard.

  38. Thank you, reason, for being the ONLY mainstream media outlet to give any voice to the principles of liberty and the Libertarian party.

    The shit-show of comments above illustrate perfectly just how a “wasted” libertarian vote can piss off both the right and left.

    That is success.

  39. Trump accomplished many Libertarian things while in office. Included is criminal justice reform, exposing corruption, lowering taxes, substantially reducing regulations against businesses, overseeing our county finally become energy independent, bringing my brothers and sisters home, not starting any wars.

    This was all after being impeached over fabrications and crimes the democrats Were actually committing, and it lasted 4 years. On top of that, he had to deal with a pandemic. Unlike politicians, he didn’t use this crisis to expand government power, and resisted taking over companies to produce PPE, while democrats/communists were begging him to do so.

    If the liberals/communists can do that to a sitting president, just watch what a biden administration will try and do to the citizens that oppose them.

    Trump being re-elected would have resulted in corruption being continually exposed, to include that child molesting POS jo biden, his son and their entire douchebag family. Communist China, who the bidens made plenty of money from, would have been exposed and held accountable for the virus they unleashed the world over.

    Does anyone not find it odd that the bidens and libs never mention China? There’s a reason for it. The only way the libs could have stopped Trump’s success was by disrupting the economy. With China’s help, they did.

    Jo should have encouraged everyone to vote for Trump and offered an olive branch of support to help make the libertarian party more relevant for 2024. “Libertarians help Trump drain the swamp and make America great again”. “Conservatives” might have warmed up to the Libertarian Party, and could have accepted a libertarian minded candidate to finish the job Trump started, and made things even better.

    4 years of pedo biden is a major setback to liberty. A vote for Jorgensen helped biden tremendously.

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  41. THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY IS A SCHEME TO GET CONSERVATIVES TO WASTE A REPUBLICAN VOTE!!

    Think about it! All of the writers on this “libertarian” website are communists who advocate open borders and every other stupid marxist idea they learned about in queer studies!

    1. I’ll assume sarc rather than stupidity, as a courtesy.

  42. Living on CA where any vote for a candidate is worthless, she got my vote as a protest.
    This regardless of her bullshit claim regarding the US subsidies of the petroleum business (which jackass immediately claimed made them true!)
    Certainly not an ideal candidate for POTUS, but better than the alternatives. But had I been in a state where my vote would matter, Trump would have gotten it; anyone who is confused about the issue is either an ignoramus or a TDS victim:
    On a 10-scale, Jo gets 8, Trump gets 6, slobbering Joe, well a courtesy, uh, well…
    Fuck it: A 2 is a courtesy for that slimy influence-peddler.

  43. We’re touting “second best?” Are we crowing over a historical runner up? Johnson got 3.27% of the national vote in 2016. In 2020 Jorgensen’s share plummeted to 1.14%. That’s called LOSING GROUND folks. If anything, with the choices being a bloviating big-spending deficit-inducing mind-numbing Trump and a Biden ticket backed by radical extremists who want to do away with the second amendment and electoral college, do away with equal representation for state’s in the senate, and pack the court you’d think the Libertarians could have found a similar share of unhappy voters. Jorgensen didn’t make the case and the Libertarian party played the wrong hand. It should have stuck to its principles and platform cards instead of wading into social politics and personas.

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  45. What is “beating the spread”? Losing. What is the “Second-Best Result in Libertarian Party History”? Losing. The Libertarian party is a joke. The one good thing I can say about Jo Jorgensen is she is an actual libertarian candidate, not a failed Republican candidate like Ed Clark, Bob Barr and Gary Johnson and even Ron Paul.

  46. Jo Jorgensen was a very weak candidate and lost me when she backed BLM, a Trojan horse organization. I was once registered Libertarian, then Independent because of their chairman’s backing of the coup in Venezuela. Thinking of going back to the Republican Party and trying to continue to vote Libertarian/Conservative and try to sway the GOP that way. One thing for sure is that the Democrats are worse the GOP and not voting GOP helps the Democratic/Socialists to achieve their goals.

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