Reason Roundup

Joe Biden's Presidency Is Coming. It Will Be Bad In Predictable Ways.

Plus: Behind the Trump press conference at Four Seasons Total Landscaping, Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine sees early success, and more...


For a few beautiful days last week, Americans could bask in the knowledge that President Donald Trump was likely on his way out without yet confronting the reality that former Vice President Joe Biden was on his way in. But with the election called on Saturday for Biden and his running mate, Sen. Kamala Harris (D–Calif.), the pair have begun releasing plans for their administration, delighting dancing-in-the-street Democrats and leaving libertarians, once again, with a lot of dread.

We knew this was coming, of course. We have decades of history to tell us how Biden and Harris will govern. We know, for instance, that they want top-down solutions to deal with the COVID-19 pandemic, will be bad on free speech and internet regulation, are always ready to spread some new sex panic, support harmful regulations for independent contractors, and don't even pretend to be realistic about government spending. We know they're still cowards when it comes to ending the drug war and enacting meaningful criminal justice reform.

And now, we're already seeing rumblings around many of these dangerous fault lines. Biden is working on plans to get state and local governments to universally enact mask mandates, according to NBC News:

President-elect Joe Biden in the coming days will begin calling governors and the mayors of major cities from both parties to encourage them to institute mask mandates as the coronavirus pandemic enters a potentially deadlier phase with winter arriving, according to a senior Biden adviser who briefed NBC News.

"If a governor declines, he'll go to the mayors in the state and ask them to lead," the official said. "In many states, there is the capacity of mayors to institute mandates."

On a new transition website,, the Biden team lists four priorities: COVID-19, economic recovery, racial equity, and climate change. There are a few encouraging bits, such as a section pledging that "the Biden-Harris administration will work with Congress to pass police reform legislation," including "a nationwide ban on chokeholds" and "stopping the transfer of weapons of war to police forces." But promising parts are rare.

Among the many promises under each category are a pledge to "establish a U.S. Public Health Jobs Corps," "fully use the Defense Production Act," and give states money for basically anything they need under the guise of pandemic readiness. The administration also wants to see a minimum wage of "at least $15 per hour," and the end "the tipped minimum wage and sub-minimum wage for people with disabilities," plus regulations that make "it easier for workers to organize unions and collectively bargain" and a mandate that businesses provide "universal paid sick days and 12 weeks of paid family and medical leave."

Libertarians who were less than 100 percent psyched about a Trump win this year have been taking gruff from some right-of-center types, who suggest anyone who didn't help secure Trump a second term must intrinsically support Biden, or at least has no right to complain about anything Biden does.

But libertarians who opposed Trump did so precisely because he deviated from limited government and classical principles in significant ways, whether we're talking free markets, free expression and other civil liberties, or foreign policy. Refusing to vote for Trump wasn't a vote for big, overzealous, and unaccountable government; it was a vote against Trump's version of it.

And—it should go without saying—there were ways to vote against Trump without voting for Biden, literally and metaphorically. Among Reason staff, Libertarian candidate Jo Jorgensen and no one emerged as the top personal choices this election (with a few folks voting for Biden and one for Trump).

Few libertarians harbor any delusions that a Biden administration will be good for liberty and limited government. Everyone knows we'll have our work cut out for us as watchdogs and non-partisan analysts of government shenanigans—undoubtedly more than during the past four years. A lot of journalists eager to point out Trump's flaws and question federal law enforcement authorities during his tenure will, under Biden, suddenly rediscover the joys of regurgitating government press releases and calling it a day. A lot of people will assume good motives, and will assume that a good motive means good policy.

It's going to be…well, basically, the Obama years all over again. Which won't be very pleasant, but also won't be new. This is a thing we recognize. This is a thing we know how to fight.

On some things—like internet and First Amendment issues—Biden and Harris are neither worse nor better than what Trump-era Republicans were offering. On others, I am more fearful of their administration than of Trump's (if in part only because of the latter's incompetence). Still, they are unlikely to keep stealing immigrant kids from their parents and sending federal agents to snatch Black Lives Matter protesters off the streets. They may be better on trade. They are less likely to directly stoke so many untrue conspiracy theories on social media. They will be bad, but in predictable ways. They will lie, but perhaps not as much.

We know how the battle lines will shake up again now, too. Trump may still be a big force in conservative politics, and that's sort of a wild card. But a swath of Republicans will be (and already are) pivoting to anti-spending and anti-big-government rhetoric. That is, if nothing else, more welcome than the alternative, though we don't know how seriously any of them will actually take this rediscovered libertarian streak.

Still: A Republican Party at least nominally concerned with cutting regulations and spending, a Democratic Party trying to steer to the center after not getting the blowout they expected, and a (probably) gridlocked Congress may not be a libertarian dream, but it isn't all that bad.

"The election will be deeply disappointing to die-hard Trumpers, Democrats hoping for a landslide and Never Trumpers eager to see the Republican Party burn. That's a lot of people, probably even most voters," writes Liz Mair in a New York Times op-ed. "But for some of us, it will be a win—a silver lining out of the country's political divisions."

That's putting it a little strongly for my taste. But it's probably the best we could've hoped to get out of what was on the table this year.

Trump is still spinning conspiracy theories and refusing to concede the election, as his campaign challenges the results in battleground states he lost. But some have suggested that his "heart doesn't seem in it," as The Washington Post puts it:

The funding and spending for the Trump legal efforts also speaks to the possibility that this isn't all it's cracked up to be.

For instance, the campaign is soliciting donations for its "official election defense fund," but the fine print shows half of the donations are to be used for another purpose: to retire the campaign's debt. That's a particularly conspicuous clause given Trump had previously said he might put up his own money for his reelection effort; even as he swears he has a legitimate legal case, he's not just declining to use his own money, but he's diverting half the money raised for it to another purpose tied to the winding down of the campaign. (The imbalance is even bigger for a related effort, with 40 percent going to the Republican National Committee and 60 percent going to retire Trump's campaign debt.)

Over the weekend, the Trump campaign held a bizarre press conference in Philadelphia. Trump initially tweeted that it would be at Four Seasons Philadelphia—as in, the luxury hotel—but this tweet was quickly deleted after the hotel tweeted that it was not taking place there. The press event was actually held at a local landscaping business called Four Seasons Total Landscaping, located in a remote area of the city between the Fantasy Island Adult Bookstore and a crematorium.

"The mistake was not in the booking, but in a garbled game of telephone," reports The New York Times. "Mr. Giuliani and the Trump campaign adviser Corey Lewandowski told the president on Saturday morning their intended location for the news conference and he misunderstood, assuming it was an upscale hotel, according to multiple people familiar with the matter."


• Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine sees early success:

• How British pub owners are getting around new alcohol sales restrictions:

• Ohio is not the influencer it once was:

• In Wisconsin, more than a third of COVID-19 tests returned yesterday were positive. "The 4,280 new confirmed cases account for 33.5% of the 12,761 tests that came back Sunday," reports the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel.

The Washington Post looks at five "particularly persistent" myths about misinformation, including the idea that "consumption of news from dubious websites is widespread" and the idea that "most Americans dwell in online echo chambers."

• Meet the Atlanta sex toy magnate who can't stop picking fights.

• Reminder:

NEXT: The CDC's Eviction Moratorium Is Neither Necessary Nor Legally Sound 

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  1. Pumping for Biden, and now worried?

    1. Hello.

      Don’t concede. Let it play out.

      1. EVEN HITLER KNEW WHEN TO GIVE UP. Is Trump going to keep being worse than Hitler all the way to the end?


          My most-senior inside contact at the White House has surreptitiously slipped me an advance copy of the lame-duck POTUS’s concession speech. Without further ado, here it is:

          Friends, non-foreigner-type True Americans, and all who Make America Great Again, lend me your ears! I come to bury Biden, not to praise him. Biden and his minions stole the elections, and we must dishonor that! To Make America Great Again, we must invent the most fantastic, fabulous, YUUUGEST BIGNESS EVAH SEEN, in the ways of truly factually fictitious, but Spiritually and Metaphorically True, NEW Republican ballots! Because I have directed My Generals and Scientists to research the current and past performance, efficacy, and patriotism of one-party states, versus multi-party states. As I have directed them to, My impartial, unbiased, data-driven council of My Generals and Scientists have determined that yea verily, one-party states work better! Therefore, we must all strive for the Glorious Day, when America becomes a one-party state, under the One True Party, the Republican Party! (Pause for applause, to be continued).

          1. Also, please contribute to my legal defense fund.*

            And make sure to watch Don and Rudy in the Morning on And buy my book, “How Biden Stole the Election!”

            *funds may go to paying down my campaign debt

            1. When you find yourselfadding on to the rantings of un-person SQSRLY, you may have gone too far.

              1. True.

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              2. Hey Chuck did you say your prayers to your pervert God this morning?
                Chuck won’t reply because he’s a coward like all Mormons, and he has no counter arguments. What Mormons believe makes no sense, but they have “faith.”

                Fuck you and your pervert God Chuck you goddamn cowardly waste of life!

                1. your pervert God

                  Mormons don’t usually worship a geriatric pedophile hair sniffer. I think you’re confusing them with Democrats.



                  3. Enjoy president Biden

                    1. Enjoy your fistula. You’ve earned it.

            2. How cute. wk is advocatingocking political opponents up.

              1. Real online home based job to make more than $14k. Last month i have made $15738 from this home job. Very simple and easy to do and earnings from this are just awesome.for details Open This Website……. Here is More information.

              2. That’s because he’s a lefty and locking up political opponents is what lefties do.

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                2. I missed where I said Trump should be locked up.

              3. “wk is advocatingocking political opponents up”?

                Advocatingocking, is that like some flavor of knocking-up, like ad-placing an ad in a sleazy mag, advertising that you want to knock up your fave political opponents? Was’t it YOU and Steve Bannon, a while back, who were trying to knock up Pepe the frog? I mean the REAL Pepe the frog… The one who wouldn’t side with Pepe the White-Nationalist, stolen-IP frog?


              4. Hey JesseSPAZ… I wish you and Steve Bannon well, as the two of you pursue your “romantic triad” with Pepe the Frog, and with your noble intentions to “knock up” Pepe the Frog!

                Be ye WARNED, however, that Miss Piggy is trying her best, to steal the object of your affections!!!!


              5. “advocatingocking”

        2. If you’re gonna Hitler go bigger than Hitler.

        3. But for now, the courts have sided with Biden and his camel-toe, and Antifa, BLM, and all the Marxist terrorists. We must let the courts have it their way, with mayo on the side. I mean, with Mao Tse Tung on the side, but without the Proud Boys standing back and standing by. Thank you, Proud Boys, for having stood by me. Also, thank you, Steve Bannon, Vladimir Putin, Kim Ill Dung, and Pepe the Stolen-Intellectual-Property Frog. Pepe, watch out for Miss Piggy, she and her “pre-nuptial contracts” will clean your clock, just like Melania is set to clean mine soon! But I digest.

          So we can’t disrepute what the nasty courts have said, or there might be civil war. Sad! The courts aren’t very American these days! And if you don’t like what I just said? Well, I’m sorry that you feel that way!

          So congratulations to Biden for having stolen the elections! This is America, so we must properly honor the decisions of the courts, in a dishonorable way! Biden can come and live with us in the White House, per the wishes of the courts. He can pour our covfefe for us, for Steve Bannon, Pepe the Frog, and I, and Jill can make sandwiches for us. We promise to call him POTUS, and her, First Lady! POTUS of covfefe, and First Lady of sandwiches, that is! Hey Biden! Get yer butt over here! Pepe needs some covfefe!

          That setup will get us by for a little while! Meanwhile, we can schedule the NEW run-off elections, this time without any fraudulent so-called “Democratic” votes being allowed, and we can do this RIGHT the next time!

          Meanwhile, congratulations to Joe Stalin-Biden, on being elected POTUS of pouring covfefe for Pepe!

          1. Sqrlsy ❤’s Hitler.

            “SQRLSY One
            September.30.2020 at 12:53 pm

            Yes! This FURTHER proves that Hitler was NOT a racist!
            Since even Hitler wasn’t a racist, we can pretty firmly conclude that racism isn’t a “thing” at all!

            “SQRLSY One
            November.1.2020 at 8:51 am

            Here, this is a pretty good match! Every asshole is a good, right, and TRUE, benevolent asshole!
            “My spirit will rise from the grave and the world will see I was right.”
            ― Adolf Hitler

            1. Mother’s Lament
              Bimsday, 39 Bemberbember 2020 at 6:66 PM

              I love to LIE my ass off, and suck Satan’s dick! Because I hate humanity! The Evil One is the Father of Lies, just as Der TrumpfenFuhrer is the Stable Genius! So, as the apple falls not far from the tree, I INSIST on telling obvious lies, all day, every day! Butt… Surprise, surprise! Other Evil Ones Junior will fall for my lies… Because they want to!

              1. Thanks Nutbag. I’m adding this to the collection.

                1. Lol. Damn squirrel is a fucking freak show.

        4. So, an army of Trump clones in about 18 years?

        5. EVEN HITLER KNEW WHEN TO GIVE UP. Is Trump going to keep being worse than Hitler all the way to the end?

      2. Gore took 39 days to concede. Now we are told to stand down despite all of the stories and actual evidence of thousands of votes changed, late ballots, affidavits, videos, etc.

        1. Hillary made the drunken phone call conceding the next morning, despite having solid evidence that Russia had installed the usurper. (Or did she have a surrogate call; I forget. Still counts.) Trump could be at least as gracious considering he shouldn’t have been there in the first place.

          1. LOL

          2. The Ruhshun Cuhlooshun Conspiracy? Again?

            Where’s Mooler?

        2. Trump and the Republicans should absolutely raise any evidence they have of election fraud. Seriously.

          Speaking of seriously, they might want to put someone other than Rudy Giuliani in charge of the legal team.

          1. The focus on fraud is misplaced, although there are enough irregularities to at least raise a red flag. Fraud may well be discovered, though I doubt it will be of a magnitude sufficient enough to sway the results in any given swing state.

            The bigger focus should be on removing from the counts any ballots that are not legal under the law. Ballots that do not comply with state laws and cannot be properly verified should be rejected. It is entirely possible that a sufficiently number ballots get rejected to change the results in the battleground states. We are talking about razor thing margins. If ballot rejection rates of 1-2% hold, as they have in the past, the results of the election may change dramatically over the coming months.

            1. You’d think the Democrats, with their supposed dedication to transparency, would be eager to have an audit of the votes take place to show just how popular a senile politician and his cackling running mate actually were with voters.

              It’s not a coincidence that the DNC jawboned Jill Stein into dropping her recount lawsuit in Wisconsin in 2016.

              1. The Democrats have never been champions of transparency, when it comes to voting. They are champions of unrestricted and unverifiable participation. Suffrage, for Democrats, is not a legal privilege subject to lawful parameters, but an unfettered, universal right to be afforded to everyone and anyone.

            2. If it were 1 state one could argue there’s a chance.

              But not in several states. The courts will have to decide that tens of thousands of votes in several states were cast illegally or otherwise fraudulently registered, and that’s just not gonna happen.

              1. Assuming Trump holds on to win NC and AK, it only comes down to 3 states:

                AZ and GA haven’t been called yet, so late arriving absentee ballots (skewing military and Republican) may push them to Trump.

                That would take the election down to one state, Pennsylvania.

                1. Wisconsin the election officials who filled in witness data stated they did it in red, would be easy to segregate unless lying.

              2. The courts would not necessarily have such a difficult decision to make. Ballots that do not comply with state laws can be identified, and likely will be, when recounts commence.

                The only question that will remain is will it make a difference. We are, however, dealing with a truly unprecedented scenario.

                We do not have to look far back for precedent:


                “In the days before New Jersey’s third-largest city held municipal elections in May entirely by mail, postal workers became suspicious when they found hundreds of ballots bundled together.

                The discovery triggered an investigation that led to charges of voter fraud against two local elected leaders and resulted in nearly 20 percent of the ballots being rejected.”

                That is right.

                Twenty percent.

                The margins we are talking in swing states are less than 1%.

            3. Wisconsin directing their election officials to add witness addresses in violation of state law is fraud.

          2. Funny hearing people who swore Blasey-Ford was “credible” demandng more proof of accusations.

          3. They have. That’s why lawsuits have been filed dummy.

            They also aren’t required to push all evidence out day one, but have asked for state data to find stronger evidence. They have plenty of affidavits already. The dem election boards are not releasing the data required in any lawsuit.

        3. …sorry…no actual evidence of wide spread fraud. Do some research…don’t be a social media idiot.

          1. More evidence than there was of “Russian collusion.”

            A LOT more.

    2. Americans could bask in the knowledge that President Donald Trump was likely on his way out without yet confronting the reality that former Vice President Joe Biden was on his way in. But with the election called on Saturday for Biden and his running mate, Sen. Kamala Harris D–Calif…………VISIT HERE FOR FULL DETAIL.

    3. Max Boot’s nipples are getting hard, don’t disappoint. We have put off invading Iran long enough.

      1. Need a casus belli for that, Widget. I’ve little doubt we can find one though.

    4. ENB and most of the writers at Reason couldn’t say enough bad about Trump and how much they wanted him gone; so here we are two days post declaration and now cue the panic over the only alternative? It’s not like you didn’t know what was coming; at least with Trump the economy was doing well [and even held throughout the pandemic shutdowns], there were no new wars, and we saw some actually decent judges being nominated and confirmed. So all of the sudden it’s a libertarian panic attack?

      PS: I won’t panic unless things go sideways in GA; at this point gridlock would suit me just fine

      1. It’s a shoddy attempt at trying to be balanced in their coverage. Good enough for some of their readers though.

        1. Said it better than me; pithy, too.

    5. Absolutely nothing is over! NOTHING! Not one single state has certified Biden as the winner, NOT ONE.
      The news media doesn’t determine who the winner of the election is and neither does any hack of a journalist.

    6. Hate to break it to the minority ie Biden people. Their steal plan may have worked in years past, it was doomed in 2020. Why? It’s a Democrat thing, they cannot ever picture scenarios where their own bullshit doesn’t become reality. Their brains are limited in this regard it’s a lack of creativity and imagination an affliction that seems to exist in the left.

      Exhibit 1. In 2016 Democrats and corrupt Government officials simply could not imagine Clinton losing the election. So they threw caution to the wind and broke every rule and every norm weaponizing the nations intel and law enforcement to spy on Trump and his campaign. They believed in all their damaged brains that Clinton’s win and the fake dossier would allow them to destroy their political opposition and clean up the illegality post election -FAIL They had to hurriedly concoct the Russian collusion lie (successful short term, devastating long term to media credibility which will in 2020 help disable the current election steal).

      Exhibit 2. Employing electronic means via ex CIA tools for election interference overseas. Battleground states where elections were managed by Democrat operatives had HAMMER & SCORECARD programs loaded onto tallying systems, these programs shave %’s off every Trump vote and add it to Biden’s vote. The amount is added via an algorithm that shapes the steal to certain parameters. Once again the Democrats determined that Trump would NEVER exceed Obama’s best election vote total and programmed using that in the algo. On election night around 10.30pm the top Democrat shat their pants realizing Trump was on track to exceed Obama’s best result. So they halted counting everywhere they could, kicked out GOP watchers, and manufactured the required vote. How? By taking legal Trump votes, transcribing them to a new ballot as Biden votes. Hence so many states had Biden votes with nothing marked for the down the list senate, congress etc races. At 4am they started adding in the stolen votes. When they had what they required, they collected the approximately 600,000 Trump votes transported them to the Crematoria opposite Four Seasons Landscaping where Rudy Guiliani held that Presser leftists are giggling about, and incinerated them. Don’t you think it’s hilarious we all know now and that Guiliani held his presser at the exact moment the media called the election for Biden. How many Democrats shat their pants when they learned where Guiliani was? It’s all coming out…be careful because it will be proven the wokerati who’ve been oppressing, screaming and threatening Trump voters represent 30something % vs Trumps now known 60something% of the legal vote. Consider yourselves warned…enjoy!

  2. “Joe Biden’s Presidency Is Coming. It Will Be Bad In Predictable Ways.”

    Not that Libertarians in purple states care!

    Walter Block, libertarian OG by way of the Mises Institute, penned an article for the Wall Street Journal about Jo Jorgensen and the Libertarian vote. The last bit sums it up well:

    “Pardon me while I beat my head against the wall. How could libertarians in purple states be so stupid?”


    “Libertarians Spoil the Election”

    I think that gets it exactly right.

    1. Cue the “you’re not entitled to our vote” responses. Trump acerbic tweets and personality defaults were so unseemly that surrendering the electoral map to avowed socialists was clearly preferable.

      1. I never thought I’d say this but – gulp – I think libertarians are more retarded than progressives after what I’ve seen during this campaign.

        Trump was clearly the lesser of the two evils by many orders of magnitude. I still refuse to believe that the country calculated they hate Trump more to take a chance with this blathering idiot and this remedial side kick next to him. Two losers.

        1. Libertarians are notoriously bad at balancing their principles and pragmatism. If they feel they are not getting everything they want, but only part, they are willing to walk away with nothing at all, rather than compromise.

          I suppose in some ways, this is a hard bargaining tactic. “My way or nothing.” However, this rarely works unless one has dispositive leverage on their side. Without leverage, this kind of tactic leaves one empty handed. Libertarians have no leverage, and they have lost the bargain.

          It is what it is.

          1. Libertarians are often naïve and push the nirvana fallacy. It is a way they can stop any intelligent analysis at a facial level and not have to think of ways to compromise to apply their views to reality. It is the libertarian version of sophistry.

            1. Have libertarians never heard of Duverger’s law? Or do they assume that they’re somehow immune to the overwhelming natural tendency of the voting populace?

              What do they expect to gain by essentially withdrawing from the political process?

          2. In some ways, libertarians are the autistics of the political tribes. Or at least the Aspergers.

            1. Excuse me, I have asperger’s. I voted for Jorgenson but only because Trump was certain to win my state. If this wasn’t the case I would have plugged my nose and voted for Trump. Because I am more pragmatic than your average LP supporter.

              1. Only someone with Asperger’s would brag about having Asperger’s lol

              2. Hey soldiermedic76 what are you gonna lie about today? More LDS Propoganda I assume! Did you ever get around to researching Mormons in Nazi Germany? Willing to admit you were wrong yet?

                I won’t hold my breath. You’re a coward just like your Mormon piece of shit family.

                1. Smells like Obession, and just like the bottled stink yours is fucking wretched.

          3. If you’re balancing principles and pragmatism then you don’t have any principles.

            1. If principles take precedence over pragmatism, then you do not have any pragmatism.

              Principles without pragmatism are like blueprints without contractors and materials.

              Enjoy sleeping outdoors with your blueprints.

              1. Pragmatism got you Trump v Biden.

                Enjoy sleeping in your cage with your pragmatism.

                1. The two party machine got us Trump versus Biden. The third party Libertarian machine (if it can even be called that, given how disoriented the party is) is irrelevant for all practical purposes other than to siphon votes from the ranks of the deluded into the ether of the ideal.

                  Had libertarians had an ounce of pragmatism, we would have gotten the lesser of two evils.

                  There is no way you can flip this without completely ignoring reality.

                  Enjoy Biden.

                  1. And that’s even a bit disingenuous.
                    Trump is not R career politician who rose up the ranks to get his turn, he’s a real outsider.
                    Perot couldn’t win an election as a 3rd party candidate, and neither could anyone else – including Trump and Teddy Roosevelt.
                    So Trump became a republican, ran within but against their machine, beat two political dynasties, and the sitting administration, its intel weapons, and the press.
                    And libertarians want to stab him in the back, even though he’s given more of what you ask for than any other executive in your lifetimes, and live in some fantasy world where their 1% vote total signals some sort of hope for a viable 3rd party.
                    You’ve had 50 years.
                    It’s a grift.

                    1. +100

                    2. The unobtainable “perfect” is always the enemy of the “good enough”, and Libertarians are always at war.

            2. If you’re willing to compromise your principles you don’t have any principles.

              1. We are talking governance, not individual policy. You can’t even get 5 libertarians to agree to every principle. It is not a governing strategy.

                1. One key principle you can get them to agree on is to not fuck with other people just because you can.

                  That should be reason enough for Republicans to have held their nose and voted for Jo.

                  1. Complete and utter delusion is a libertarian specialty. We live in the real world and you are being awfully naïve.

                    1. It’s gotta be parody at this point, right?

              2. See above.

                “If principles take precedence over pragmatism, then you do not have any pragmatism.

                Principles without pragmatism are like blueprints without contractors and materials.

                Enjoy sleeping outdoors with your blueprints.”

              3. Not true.

                If the choices are to compromise and get some of what your principles demand or hold firm and get NONE of it, you compromise.

            3. Principles can only never be violated on a mass scale if everyone agrees with you in totality.

          4. Or it’s cynicism in the more technical, original sense. Only the good is worth pursuing. Compromising on the good is evil by definition (to a Cynic).

            1. On the bright side, Biden will probably forgive all the student debt you incurred in obtaining that worthless philosophy degree.

              1. Too bad for me I paid that off 20 years ago, then.

                You seem to know what I’m talking about. So when are you going to pay off your student loans for your pointless degree? Or are you the only one who gets to make baseless assumptions based on a few comments on the internet?

                You don’t know what I think or believe, so fuck off.

                1. Enjoy Biden, philosophy major.

                  1. You did get that one right. But I bet you can’t guess what I did after that.

                    1. I got it right, because it is obvious. You do not speak like an engineer, a scientist, or even a laborer. I do not think you were quite qualified enough to become any sort of credentialed professional, so you probably settled for a job in human resources for a few years and, today, you teach part time in an obscure community college while raising your daughters (one of whom definitely operates an OnlyFans account that you have yet to discover).

                    2. Nope. You don’t know shit about me. You are entirely wrong, so please stop assuming you know anything about me.

                    3. Stop trying to share your life details with strangers on the internet, then.

                  2. But, serious question, why do you want to be a dick? Wouldn’t it be more interesting and productive to have a conversation with people who don’t think the same as you do? If not, why the hell are you here?

                    1. Having productive conversations with philosophy majors is impossible. They cannot begin or end a discussion without relying upon some esoteric, indecipherable abstraction. Taking a hard stance on anything is not in their constitution, because they never learned to defend their positions with anything more than “positions do not actually exist.” They will never admit they are wrong, because everything is relative. Philosophy majors are only capable of having productive conversations with themselves, alone in their living rooms.

          5. Neither candidate offered anything I wanted. Why must i choose one? I’d rather stay home and not vote at all.

            And I think i did get what i wanted, assuming the Georgia run-offs get us to at least 51 Republican senators. Divided government that’s unlikely to accomplish anything was the dream.

            1. Because they own you just like the Democrats own the Black vote.

            2. Get back to us when Democrats take the Senate.

            3. No wars, no massive retaliation against citizens over a shot fown drone, lower taxes, slashed regulations, middle east peace, Gorsuch – you werent interested in any of that….

              1. It was not exactly and precisely 100% what they wanted, so they took the principled approach and now got 100% of what they definitely did not want.

                But principles.

              2. No new wars is not the same thing as no wars. No wars ended either.
                -Also, killing Suleimani was pretty belligerent – the no new wars seems to be more luck than anything.
                -And let’s not forget Yemen, where the Trump administration actively supported UAE and Saudi in a conflict which has been rife with war crimes.

                Middle East Peace? You must be reading different news than i am. Iran belligerence, Syrian civil war, Yemen, Israel-Palestinian violence… The only real progress towards ME peace (Israel-Saudi vs. Iran power balancing) is more detente than actual peace, and had nothing to do with Trump.

                Gorsuch was pretty decent, i’ll give you that. Kavanaugh leaves me unimpressed, however. (It’s not the sexual assault allegation, it’s his tendency to defer to executive actions). ACB isn’t exactly getting me excited either. (I’m willing to stipulate both are qualified, but they’re hardly what i’d consider desirable on jurisprudence). 1 out of 3 is probably just an accident.

                Lower taxes – without cutting spending it’s simply irresponsible.

                Slashed regulation – not as much as Trump likes to brag. The net regulatory burden very slightly decreased, with emphasis on very. And it only started actually decreasing in 2019. He had 2 years of a friendly congress and didn’t manage any actual net deregulation in those two years.

                I’ll be honest, i’m not sure which specific drone incident you intend to be referencing with that one. It’s not like US drone usage stopped under Trump.

                So the positives are kinda bare. And let’s look at the downsides:
                -Trump’s defense of QI
                -No end to the war on drugs
                -A massive unnecessary trade war (i don’t think you understand how big of a negative this is)
                -Pulling out of the TPP
                -slightly modifying NAFTA to be worse in a way Bernie Sanders could approve of.
                -Generally pissing all over our allies
                -Turning a blind eye while BJP goes full fascist in India (real fascism, not the fake fascism democrats accuse Trump of)
                -Not taking decisive action on Hong Kong (granting pro-liberty HKers refugee status if they wanted to come to the US would have been a good start)
                -Administration silence on Rohingya genocide in Myanmar
                -Put a milquetoast potential trade deal ahead of criticizing china over their treatment of Uighurs.
                -Anti-immigrant hysteria and reducing immigration
                -Normalizing a toxic politics which make liberty and rights harder to promote and normalize globally

                Biden won’t be better on all or even necessarily most of those things, but I didn’t vote for Biden either.

                1. I think you slept through the summer. In June and July the admin took action against companies working to profit from those Uiger concentration camps, including US company suppliers.

                  Regarding HK, how about the UK taking action to remediate the fallout from the agreement that China broached? Aren’t they the other party to that disaster?

                  “Normalizing a toxic politics”: you expect fish not to swim in the water but to suddenly grow lungs and walk upright? Baby steps.

                  1. Uighurs/
                    I’m kind of appalled you think that is either timely or sufficient.

                    It’s been obvious for at least two years that China was engaged in a genocide against Uighurs. The administration only started *considering* declaring it a genocide in August (but never did). They pushed off sanctions against companies until after trade negotiations fell through. Too little, and far too late.

                    The senate only introduced a resolution to declare it a genocide in late October right before taking a break through the election, presumably because the Trump administration still isn’t doing anything meaningful.

                    It should not take so long to officially recognize a genocide for what it is.

                    Why wait for the UK to act? Based on the US flags at HK protests, they clearly feel ideological affinity with us. HK is an economic success story – its residents are hard-working, educated, and technologically savvy. Bringing even a decent fraction of them to the US would be a win-win for everyone involved except China, and a major political coup. (They probably don’t skew Democrat in likely voting behavior either – like Cubans, they know what socialism does).

                    Toxic Politics/
                    Oh come now, Trump has been an *accelerant*. He’s example number one of dehumanizing language in politics, gratuitously provocative language, and going out of the way to seek political fights. A good fraction of his base vote for him *because of this*. There aren’t any baby steps here – there’s giant leaps in the *wrong way*.

        2. I never thought I’d say this but – gulp – I think libertarians are more retarded than progressives after what I’ve seen during this campaign.

          That’s a pretty difficult bar to clear, to be honest.

          Regardless, based on what I’ve seen the effect of the Lolbs on election results is being blown out of proportion. We have no idea whether those votes might have leaned left or right in terms of preference.

          Although it’s about 99 percent likely that Biden will take the seat in January, a few things are clear here:
          -1) like I’ve been saying, this isn’t really over until the Supreme Court determines what’s going to happen. Anything coming from the media at this point is basically a rehash of DNC talking points. -2) Regardless of what the ultimate outcome is, 70-plus million voters and their sympathizers, on either side, are going to think they got robbed, due to the sheer ham-fisted fuckery of what went on in the battleground states and how the media covered all of this. The mid-terms are going to be an absolute shitshow.
          -3) The Democrats and the media’s calls for “healing” are so disingenuous as to be laughable. I’ve been seeing this phrase pop up way too often the last couple of weeks, and it’s breathtaking in its mendacity if only because of the pretense that “healing” can only take place after they take charge.
          -4) Oddly enough, it’s the Democrats, not the Republicans, who seem to be acting in a more fractured state. AOC and the radical left are understandably demanding their pound of flesh for carrying out the establishment’s Color Revolution, to the point of blatantly calling for a list of Enemies of the State to be drawn up. There’s not going to be any “healing” taking place as long as those lunatics are getting top cover from the media, and as long as the DNC allows them to continue shitting the bed, the divisiveness will get worse.

          1. I have a feeling they mean “healing” the way they mean “compromise”, as in “if you know what’s good for you you’ll shut up and get in line”.

            1. I have a feeling they mean “healing” the way they mean “compromise”, as in

              “grin and bear it, there is no time for lubricant.”

              1. Fuck you and your pervert God Chuck! Goddamn waste of fucking life!

                1. If you want to KillAllRednecks, you should start with yourself, hicklib.

                  1. Not a hick.
                    Eat shit bigot!

                    1. Definitely a hick.
                      Gargle with buckshot mouthwash, hicklib.

            2. It’s the same way they talk about “unity,” in that it’s only supposed to be achievable under their ideological framework. When they complain about “divisiveness,” what they mean is that the other side isn’t knuckling under to their demands.

            3. That is not compromise, which involves a trade off, whereby both parties give up something to get something in return.

              This is called accommodation; where you take whatever the other side wants to give or take away without consideration.

          2. Nononono – see, Libertarians are all Republicans that want to smoke pot. So we were all going to vote R except we dumb.

            It’s the exact same shit they made fun of Biden for – if you don’t vote for me you ain’t black.

            Just more ‘stay on the plantation’ bullshit and par for the course of the Republicans that infest this board – libertarianism is fine as long as it’s identical to conservatism. Don’t toe that line and they start the name-calling.

            I do not understand why this board has become 75 percent Republicans bitching about libertarianism not being conservative enough and 25 percent socialist bitching that it’s not collectivist enough, with maybe a half dozen actual libertarians commenting.

            1. No.

              A lot of Libertarians are socialists that want to smoke pot.

              1. So now you’re admitting that half those L votes would have gone to Biden.

                So we didn’t cost you the election.

                I knew you’d come around eventually.

                1. You are being deliberately obtuse.

                  I have already stated countless times that libertarians ****SHOULD HAVE**** voted form Trump instead of Jorgensen, not that they would have.

                  I have a hard time believing that those that voted for Jorgensen saw Biden as a reasonable alternative. Now, perhaps they did not see Trump as an ideal alternative either but, in the REALITY of a political landscape thoroughly DOMINATED by a TWO PARTY SYSTEM, voting for Jorgensen was as good as a vote for Biden.

                  Jesus Christ.

                  1. And all those Democrats should have voted for Trump.

                    And so should have all those Republicans who stayed home that day.

                    You simultaneously say libertarians are irrelevant and so don’t need the parties to pay attention to them while saying that we cost you the election.

                    1. You are a living, breathing embodiment of why the LP will never be anything more than a spoiler.

                    2. @Geiger – start running candidates Libertarians actually care about, or go wail in the outer darkness. The incentives for libertarians aren’t to vote for awful, they’re to withhold our votes until republican (or democrat) candidates stop being awful. If we voted for crap like Trump, Rs would have no incentive to move towards what we want.

                    3. You kids do not know what you want.

                      Enjoy Biden.

                    4. @Geiger
                      You seem to be under the strange belief that this is just about this election. It’s not.

                      Libertarians can meaningfully influence choices by both parties in 2024, 2028, and beyond by being seen as controlling enough votes to determine the outcome of battleground states. Voting for Trump or Biden doesn’t send that message – Ds and Rs read votes for them as approval of their choices, even if voters held their noses to make that vote. The only way to express disapproval and influence future choices is to *not vote for them*. And, if either party is rational, they should move towards libertarian positions to attract those voters.

                      There’s no advantage in the general election to pandering to the radicals on the fringes. They’re not about to go vote for the other major party. So either libertarians get more of what we want, or at least one set of awful ultra-liberals or ultra-conservatives continues to fail at elections. My guess is it’ll be Republicans, bar a major realignment of voting coalitions. They abandoned virtually every point of commonality they had with small ‘l’ libertarians (and even small ‘c’ conservatives) in embracing Trump, there’s literally zero political incentive to endorse that – it’ll just get more of crap we hate.

            2. I do not understand why this board has become 75 percent Republicans bitching about libertarianism not being conservative enough and 25 percent socialist bitching that it’s not collectivist enough, with maybe a half dozen actual libertarians commenting.

              Maybe because the Libertarian Party has a lousy track record of actually winning elections?

              You know what’s funny–no one in the Big L or little l camps ever seems to practice some internal examination and ask themselves, why do corporations that would ostensibly benefit mightily from Libertarian economic policies not throw all their weight behind building the party up as a true political force? Why do they consistently fund Republican and Democrat campaigns, and treat the Libertarians like a joke?

              Lolbs like to complain a lot about Teams and political tribalism, with no apparent understanding that tribalism is an inherent part of humanity’s anthropological evolution. It’s impossible for them to build a broad coalition on anything because they implicitly reject one of the most basic aspects of human nature and the development of human society. The Libertarians are the ultimate fence-riding party, trying to appeal to everyone while in reality not gaining broad support from anyone.

              1. The unwillingness to compromise under any circumstances, on anything, is the reason that libertarians will never obtain any political relevance as anything other than a party of spoilers.

                1. So, why are you here then?

                  You think we’re irrelevant. You think we’re stupid. So, why are you here? What are you trying to accomplish?

                  I don’t hang around the comments section of Jacobin magazine.

                  1. “You think we’re irrelevant. You think we’re stupid. So, why are you here? What are you trying to accomplish?”

                    I’m trying to beat some pragmatism into deluded libertarians that do not understand the political system in which they exist. Because they do not understand that system, or refuse to understand it, they are producing results harmful to libertarianism.

                    If you want to vote your principles, and you want those principles to matter, then you got with Republicans, not the LP. It is that simple.

                    1. Why? What’s the point? What is your endgame?

                    2. I just told you, and you keep asking.


              2. Because corporations wouldn’t benefit from libertarian policies.

                How do you benefit from removing protections from competition? From losing your subsidies?

                Libertarian policies are ‘stand on your own two feet’.

                Which is why it’s pointless to deviate from that for the sake of ‘winning’. Not when the other two parties are the parties of ‘free shit and shooting your upstart competitors’.

                1. Because corporations wouldn’t benefit from libertarian policies.

                  Bullshit. Corporations receive massive tax breaks from the government, outsourcing of manufacturing jobs through trade deals, and downward pressure on wages via the supply and demand dynamics of mass immigration.

                  Which is why it’s pointless to deviate from that for the sake of ‘winning’.

                  Which is fine, but don’t be expected to be seen as anything other than a joke if that’s the case. What’s the point of even having a political party if you’re not actually going to try and, you know, win elections? It’s just an intellectual circle-jerk otherwise.

                2. Hell, let’s set aside global megacorps–why doesn’t the Libertarian party gain more support amongst small business owners if it ostensibly benefit them?

              3. why do corporations that would ostensibly benefit mightily from Libertarian economic policies not throw all their weight behind building the party up as a true political force? Why do they consistently fund Republican and Democrat campaigns, and treat the Libertarians like a joke?

                Because the idea that the main beneficiaries of libertarian policy would be “corporations” is a bi-partisan lie, when the actuality is that both mainstream parties exist to serve those currently in power?

                1. I’d say “serving” those in power assumes a governing dynamic that’s not actually in play. These people are incestuous; politicians aren’t signing off on the CIA’s In-Q-Tel investments simply because a global megacorpos is holding an axe over their head, for example.

                  1. These people are incestuous; politicians aren’t signing off on the CIA’s In-Q-Tel investments simply because a global megacorpos is holding an axe over their head, for example.

                    Indeed. Which is why one thing they all agree on is how much they hate libertarianism.

            3. Actual libertarians have better things to do, like make money and bury gold in our backyards.

              I’m just here for the schadenfreude.

            4. Nothing in bidens policy wishlist is libertarian dummy. Trump overlapped way more than biden ever will. Sorry youre ignorant to reality.

        3. Jorgeson was the lesser of three evils – but the Republicans had to go and be all ‘independent’ and rebel. Of they had stayed on the Libertarian plantation and just done what we told them to do then we wouldn’t be facing a Biden presidency.

          1. Yet more proof that you are completely detached from the political realities of this country.

          2. You got what you wanted.
            Trump will be ousted.
            Enjoy totalitarian leftism.

          3. Yeap. Youre retarded.

        4. Libertarians are far too diverse a group to generalize that way. I think of people like JD and Dan (and me of course) as the true libertarians. Maybe that’s just me.

          I think it’s good that some libertarians refuse to be pragmatists and strictly stick to principle. No, it’s not ever going to be a winning political strategy, but the philosophical side of things is important too. And it’s good to have some set of people who sit things out and tell everyone trying to rule them to “fuck off slaver”.

          1. So for the Senate runoffs, and the 2022 midterms, we cant support the Republican because they dupport zoning restrictions on adult businesses near churches or schools, so we will get The Green New Deal, single-payer healthcate (VA for all), court packing, and DC statehood because Both Sides

            1. Indeed.

              This is the principled stance.

              “You’re not entitled to our vote!” they’ll scream as they are beaten in the camps for their bread rations.

            2. Why would you think that? No, I think you should support the Republicans. I don’t want the senate to go D anymore than you. I like the diversity of thinking among people who I see as generally on the right side of history (and I include you and most of the assholes on here in that camp, much as we may disagree on some things).
              So don’t fucking assume that you know me. You don’t know what I support or how I voted. Just that I am OK with people making their own decisions. That includes the people who decide to vote pragmatically.

            3. You guys always had the option to vote for a libertarian president.

              1. No.
                We had the option to vote for a Libertarian CANDIDATE.

      2. Progressives are really stupid because they don’t really believe outcomes are predictable. Their opinion of how economies work and what makes them grow is even dumber than creationism–because at least creationists believe in a creator God. The progressives think Joe Biden has the knowledge necessary to outperform markets–like a God. It is much smarter to think that the universe is so big and complicated that there must have been an omnipotent mind that created it than to think that Bernie Sanders or Joe Biden have the omniscient minds necessary to make better choices for each of us than we can make for ourselves.

        You’d think Libertarians would be smarter than progressives because Libertarians presumably have a rudimentary understanding of how markets work and why. In a way, that makes them even worse that progressives when they effectively vote in a slew of socialist and authoritarian policies. They’re making their knowledge seem futile–when they don’t actually use it to avoid a predictable disaster.

        Are smart people who willfully behave in a stupid manner better than stupid people? I don’t think so. We might do better targeting our efforts at the ignorant. At least there’s some hope that the uneducated will make better choices once they’re educated. What’s dumber than someone who has knowledge and willfully refuses to use it–to their own detriment? I keep hearing them say that the Georgia senators will save us (which isn’t a foregone conclusion), but they didn’t know it would be that close when they effectively gave the White House to Biden. Why should we pretend otherwise?

        1. Jorgensen embraced the BLM pantheon of grievances and virtue signaling with open arms. Most libertarians, in my view, are perfectly sympathetic to the Biden/Harris agenda. I have met many that are indistinguishable from progressives. Open borders, outsourcing, and social justice are not antithetical to many libertarians. I think we have to come to terms that if Jorgensen was not on the ballot, many libertarians would have voted for Biden/Harris outright.

          1. I have met many that are indistinguishable from progressives.

            Many of them are at this site. They are just bored democrats who are play acting as something else. Almost all of them live in deep blue states already.

            1. Dude, you’re a bored conservative. Maybe don’t throw stones from your glass house.

          2. “Embraced”. She attended a candlelight vigil and acknowledged that policing reform is needed.

              1. Damning stuff. She supports peaceful protest for police and justice reform, explicitly denounces rioting, and clarifies that she does not support parts of Black Live Matter’s political agenda that don’t have to do with police reform.

                1. You are being deliberately obtuse.

                2. “She supports peaceful protest for police and justice reform”

                  Meanwhile, Trump actually enacted criminal justice reform (without needing help from “protests”) and didn’t bend the knee to racial marxists.

                  1. Trump and McConnell blocked even the consideration of qualified immunity reform. Let’s make them out as chanpions of police reform.

                  2. CACLLs give Trump a lot of partial credit. He signs an executive order that instructs some Federal agencies to explore ways to use incentives to promote police reform, and you give him credit as if that’s something real like a Congressional bill. I went looking for follow-up on how the executive order has gone, and there’s nobody following up on whether it has had an effect.

                    1. CACLLs

                      Nobody thinks this is clever except for you Dee.

            1. Lying liar. She embraced it, dipshit. You arguments are more incoherent than normal today.

              Jul 10
              It is not enough to be passively not racist, we must be actively anti-racist.

              #BlackLivesMatter #VoteGold

              1. Nothing says “LIBERTARIAN!!!” like somebody telling us what we must do.

                1. Especially when that something is cultural Marxism.

                2. Nothing says faking offense like dwelling on rhetorical use of the word, must.

                3. Or worse: what we must think.

              2. #MormonLivesDontMatter

                Chuck’s a fucking coward!

                1. And you’re an immature schlemiel, who with any luck will soon be permanently banned, as you never have anything worthwhile to add.

                  1. I have the most relevant comments here!

                    Fuck mormons!
                    You LDS or something pussy?

                    1. You still trying to pretend you’re not a hick, hicklib?

          3. You should’t confuse what you see staff here write with actual libertarians.

            On the one hand, you seem to understand that a lot of it is bullshit, but on the other hand, you seem to be internalizing their bullshit.

            They don’t speak for me. They don’t speak for a lot of libertarians here. They don’t speak for a lot of libertarians–full stop. They’re just speaking for themselves.

            1. And you speak for yourself.

              Bullshit though it may be, a lot of other people that are not you believe it and are perfectly comfortable calling themselves libertarians.

          4. Jorgensen only said she agreed with BLM’s primary goals, of less police brutality and the police treating everyone equally regardless of race. As we should all be in agreement with.

            She didn’t sign the BLM manifesto of Marxist beliefs, and I doubt she even read it.

            Trump supporters will give Trump every benefit of the doubt and interpret his tweets for us, but not extend the same latitude to an actual libertarian.

            1. She said we had to be anti racist which has a defined idea behind it. Stop lying about her.

              1. This. And if she didn’t realize what she was talking about, she should have looked into it before talking about it.

                I’m also pretty sure that after the initial tweet someone informed her what BLM rhetoric means, and instead of walking it back, she kept on with it.

          5. If they are indistinguishable from progressives, then they aren’t libertarians. Or words have no meaning.
            I’m not sure what you consider the Biden/Harris agenda to be, but I’m not really seeing how any libertarians, even people like ENB who I agree aren’t really libertarians, are “perfectly sympathetic”. Maybe narrowly sympathetic on some issues.

            1. 5-6 of them voted for them.

              1. Voting for someone is not necessarily a reflection of perfect sympathy. And if they were in perfect sympathy, then they just plain aren’t libertarians.
                The anti-Trump TDS voting is dumb, but it doesn’t mean that people who did so are totally aligned with Biden and the Democrats.

                1. They don’t really have a choice about that now

                2. Potato potahto. They’ve been writing many more anti-Trump articles than anti-Biden leading up to the election, and many of them announced they were voting for Biden. The degree of sympathy doesn’t really matter to me, when you’re clearly more sympathetic to one side than the other, and that side is clearly less libertarian.

                  1. That’s fair enough. But I was responding to a claim that they were “indistinguishable from progressives”

                    1. If the bureaucrats get away with the same shit again in Georgia, then effectively they aren’t different.

                      Their motivations might be different, but they were still driven by an emotional reaction, and the results will be terrible for liberty.

                      Reason played a part in this country becoming less free this year.

          6. Then what have you been complaining about?

            If so many libertarians are closet socialists then we couldn’t have cost you the election but would have darn near handed it to you by taking all those votes from Biden.

            1. “If so many libertarians are closet socialists”

              That is a problem too.

              1. Then why would you assume that those votes would go to Trump if not to the LP candidate?

                1. You persist in asking the same question, despite the fact that I have already clarified my position numerous times, if only to avoid the conclusion the obtuse libertarian ideals of thousands of people, divorced from all pragmatism, produced a bad result in a tight election.

                  Libertarians are never at fault for anything because their lofty principles are unimpeachable at everyone else is some shade of an authoritarian twat.

                  I cannot wait for your lectures in the camps.

        2. Its not that progressives don’t believe that outcomes are predictable. Progressive reject the very idea that people should be responsible for consequences of their own decisions. (At least Good people; bad people should always be held responsible–for their decisions and for everything else.)

          Libertarians, at least those worthy of the label, champion responsibility and embrace consequences. So if they acted stupidly by not voting for Trump, they have to own it. (I got to indulge my righteous voting urge, since my state was guaranteed to go blue.)

          1. (At least Good people; bad people should always be held responsible–for their decisions and for everything else.)

            “No bad tactics, only bad targets.”

          2. “Its not that progressives don’t believe that outcomes are predictable. Progressive reject the very idea that people should be responsible for consequences of their own decisions.”

            I wish that were true. You’re giving them more credit than they deserve.

            We imagine that they’re willing to make trade offs. They don’t realize there are any trade offs, and if you try to tell them what will happen, they think that’s just your opinion.

            We had some progressives in here last week telling us that Obama wasn’t to blame because private insurers eliminated high deductible plans–because there’s no way Obama could have known that private insurers would do that. You should have been able to keep your plan and your doctor, but there’s no way to know how people will react to policy until it’s implemented–she said.

            Tony was here last week telling me that the reason he doesn’t know how markets work or what makes economy’s grow is because there’s no way to know these things.

            You have not fully grokked the depths of progressive ignorance. Some part of your mind doesn’t want to believe people are really that stupid, so you’re assuming they’re dishonest and the want the outcomes of the trade offs they’re making. That may be true of the politicians and the strategists, but for average people? They have no idea that there are trade offs. They think we’re making it all up because we’re selfish and racist. That’s really the extent of it.

      3. You are not entitled to my libertarian vote. Your stupid Red vs. Blue Team culture war is not a game I am going to participate in. I’m not a sheep who falls into lone and voted for the “lesser of two evils”.

        1. And your libertarian vote has all but ensured that Team Blue will make you a victim of their culture war. It is really that simple. You do not get a choice not to participate in the war when the war is all around you. You cannot abstain, if you want to. The nuance you think you bring to the table will be brushed away with disdain, exactly the same way Team Blue is now furiously compiling lists of everyone not sufficiently prostrated to the whims of their new found “mandate” to change the country.

          First on their list? The virtuous never Trumpers who, for all of their opposition, were not virtuous enough because being removing Trump was never really the goal, but removing **all** opposition. Now they are targets, and having quite hard time figuring out why. They will learn.

          At the end of the day, unless you are a Team Blue one-hundred percenter, you are on the chopping block too.

          1. If I can watch the McCains, Bushes, and Lincoln Project grifters be pressed against the wall, it might be worth it.

            1. The wall? Perhaps. But not before professing their unyielding loyalty to their progressive overlords.

              Expect David French, Jonah Goldberg, and Rick Wilson, among others, to go the way of Jen Rubin with full throated denunciations of anything and anyone even marginally related to the Republican party.

              After all, one cannot be jailed, exiled, or executed in good conscience before first turning over the names of every dissident in the hopes that one’s inevitable erasure can be postponed, or perhaps even avoided. Without Trump, their anger will now be directed at anyone that ever supported Trump in any way, and so on and so forth, until they are left with no choice but to begin denouncing the voters that ushered in four years of unprecedented darkness.

              It was never about Trump and they cannot now afford to slam on the brakes. There are no seatbelts in that clown car and windshield is reinforced. Onward for the cause!

          2. Switzerland abstained.

            1. And most of Europe burned. Principles?

          3. One more vote for Trump would also be brushed away with disdain.
            If what you say is true, then it’s over already. The vast majority of non-leftists are not going to take up arms or something. And if they did, history shows that the outcomes of such uprisings are rarely good for liberty or prosperity.

          4. We’ve been victims of your fucking culture war too.

            The idea that the president is going to change how we live our daily lives is patently retarded. It takes a lot more than that.

            This idea that we’re going to be a socialist shithole because we elected Joe Fucking Biden is just about the dumbest thing I’ve heard.

            1. You thought you were a victim before? Perhaps. But you were, at best, a victim in the way that people dinged for parking violations are victims.

              Now, because of your principles, you will get to enjoy being a rape victim.

            2. “This idea that we’re going to be a socialist shithole because we elected Joe Fucking Biden is just about the dumbest thing I’ve heard.”

              The idea that you think you elected Joe Biden is even dumber than that, eh?

          5. My libertarian vote didn’t matter, actually, since I don’t live in a swingy state.

            Irregardless, the two major parties gave me a choice of two old men, big spending, and taking sides in a culture war I don’t want to participate in because I think it is destroying our country.

            I’m glad to see Trump to. He is a moron, but worse he spent the very waking minute driving more intolerance and divisiveness.

            1. The problem with wars is that you do not get the choice to sit them out if they show up on your doorstep. By all means, stay true to your conscience and principles. Dying with a clean conscience is far better than living with having gotten your hands a little dirty, apparently.

              1. A little dirty? Taking sides in a cultural fight in which I personally like people on both sides of the fight, and don’t agree with either of their team ideologies.

                No, thank you. I’m not going to take a side any more than I would take a side in a fight between a couple of two-year-olds.

                1. Except the only child is you, and you chose to live with the parent that beats you over the one that makes you eat broccoli because …. FUCK IT! NOBODY MAKES ME EAT BROCCOLI!

            2. You’re projecting again.

              By the way, when you’re in agreement with white knight here – probably not a good sign for your intellectual, psychological, and emotional well being.

              1. I’m in agreement with myself, yes.

          6. Don’t let the white knight jerk your chain, it’s a progressive.

        2. Dude, you’re not the slightest bit libertarian. Jesse is at least libertarian-adhacent sometimes.

          1. How would you know? When do we ever discuss libertarianism within the comments section of this libertarian blog? It’s rare.

            1. Some of us do. You just ignore it because then you can’t pretend we’re all just Trump cultists.

              You’re a contrarian lefty that likes to squawk your bullshit all over these boards.

      4. Look dude, I know you’re sour over throwing your vote away. If you had wanted freedom more that you wanted false assurances of safety then you’d have voted L.

        If you had, the Jorgenson would be President-elect.

        But you let your hatred of Biden overwhelm you.

        1. It was not possible for Jorgenson to win.

          1. unless voters voted for her. she was on enough ballots to win.

            1. You guys realize how stupid you sound pushing this narrative right?

              1. We’re making fun of you for pushing the exact opposite, ridiculous narrative, that Trump deserves 100% of Jorgensen’s votes. Sure you see that.

                1. All principles, no pragmatism.

                  We get it.

                  Enjoy your leftist overlords.

                  1. How’d your pragmatism work out?

                    1. It worked out fine.

                      The libertarian lack of pragmatism is what got us Biden.

                      Enjoy Biden.

                    2. I’m sure I won’t enjoy Biden.

                      Blaming it on libertarians is retarded. Would make a lot more sense to blame Republicans for picking a candidate that drove the left insane with hatred. Would have been far more pragmatic to have a candidate who wasn’t so ridiculously polarizing that the opportunity to vote against him apparently drove a large voter turnout.

                    3. “Blaming it on libertarians is retarded.”

                      I am blaming it on the retarded libertarians. I am sure that there are many that voted for Trump. I am also certain many voted for Biden.

                      But those that saw the electoral field and knew it was going to be a tight election with razor thin margins should have had the foresight to understand that Trump present a far lesser threat to libertarian ideals than Biden. In light of that knowledge, voting for Jorgensen was inexcusable. For these people, they may as well have voted for Biden. Alternatively, if they did not have the wherewithal to make such a political calculation, then they have no business voting.

                      But, alas, here we are. Everyone has the right to vote and we have to take the good, with the bad, and with the retarded.

                    4. “How’d your pragmatism work out?”

                      If you’re referring to the presidency of Trump, it got you more of what you claim to want than you’ve ever gotten for yourselves

                  2. There’s nothing in the streets
                    Looks any different to me
                    And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
                    And the parting on the left
                    Is now parting on the right
                    And the beards have all grown longer overnight…

                    We won’t be fooled again!

                    1. You’re being fooled right now.
                      Maybe… you’re a fool

                  3. Bingo, Zeb.

                    OR if the libertarian votes were what you were after to win the election, why put up a candidate that happily signed spending bills that led to a $3.3T deficit? How does anyone think that appeals to libertarian voters in any stretch of the imagination?

                    1. This is exactly what we mean when we say libertarians lack all sense of pragmatism.

                  4. Your pargmatism got you Biden.

                    If you had voted L like you were supposed to . . .

                    1. If we had all abstained from voting, the entire political machine would have folded in on itself!

                      Enjoy Biden.

        2. No.

          You threw your vote away for an ideal that had no chance of prevailing.

          Enjoy Biden.

          It is not about being sour, but about point out the fact that libertarians such as yourself are hopelessly detached from the political realities in this country.

          1. Jorgensen and Trump are both (presumably, it’s not over yet) losers. You threw your vote away too by picking a loser.

            1. With every objection to a sensible position rooted in puerile sophistry, the notion that libertarians lack all sense of pragmatism is reinforced.

              Amply reinforced.

              Enjoy Biden.

              1. Your assumption that libertarians would all have voted for Trump is absurd. Lots of libertarians (small l) did vote for Trump. I would guess most people who can be described that way probably did. Why would you assume that the LP voters would have voted for Trump?
                Trump didn’t get reelected either because of vote fraud or other cheating or because people just didn’t want to vote for him in large enough numbers. That’s it. I would have preferred he got reelected. I’m not happy about the outcome here. But trying to blame libertarians is fucking stupid.

                1. “Your assumption that libertarians would all have voted for Trump is absurd.”

                  That is not my assumption.

                  I am making the point that they **should have** voted for Trump.

                  1. Well, don’t you think everyone should have voted for Trump? I’d say all those people voting for Biden were the real problem.

                    1. Lack of pragmatism oozing with every word.

                      Maybe if we had all voted for Jesus, the Second Coming could have been hastened.

                      You are free to entertain your delusions, just understand that your delusions come with a price that you, and everyone else, will have to bear.

                  2. Because we need to stay on the plantation.

                    Same shit the Democrats says, just a different color tie.

                    1. Between the plantation and the gulag, you chose the gulag.

                      Enjoy Biden.

        3. Libertarian votes were down 3-4% across the board from 2016. It’s quite possible, probable even, that Gary Johnson (a former Republican) voters went drastically to Trump this election.

          Based on everything I’ve seen, Trump lost ground even in the rural areas of states like MI, PA, and WI even compared to 2016.

          You can blame Libertarians, just like Gore blamed Stein voters in 2000. But the data just simply isn’t there that Libertarians didn’t turn out bigger for Trump than they did even in 2016. To pretend that Trump somehow deserves 100% of the remaining 1% libertarian vote is ridiculous, by the way. There are plenty of libertarians that care more about social issues than economic ones.

          1. The data is literally there.

            1. How do you explain the drop in libertarian votes overall? Where do you think those votes went?

              1. You are missing the point. Look at the margins. Look at the LP votes.

                1. Libertarian votes were down 3-4% nationwide. Where did those votes go?

                  I don’t believe the 75% of libertarians stayed home this election. If your underlying premise is that a majority of libertarians would pick Trump over Biden, then my point stands. Under your assumption then libertarians gave Trump more votes in 2020 than in 2016. The evidence is in the drop off of LP votes, under your assumption.

                  1. My point was clear. I do not know how much clearer I can make it.

                    1. You’re claiming that Trump would otherwise get the majority of libertarian votes. I point out that 75% of libertarian voters from 2016 didn’t vote for the LP in 2020. And you’re still claiming that libertarian voters cost Trump the election. Either Trump doesn’t command the LP votes like you think he does, or they definitely increased Trump’s numbers in 2020. You can’t have it both ways.

                    2. No.

                      I am making the claim that the libertarians that voted for Jorgensen should have voted for Trump.

                    3. Why not claim that all of the Democrat voters should have voted for Trump? That would have given you a lot more votes.

                    4. “Why not claim that all of the Democrat voters should have voted for Trump? That would have given you a lot more votes.”

                      Having a sense of pragmatism means not making stupid statements like the above.

                      Enjoy Biden.

                    5. JoJo got around 1.7M votes. Gary Johnson get around 4.5M votes. Who do you think the 2.8M votes went to if not Trump? And if not to Trump, why do you think the remaining 1.7M votes should have gone to Trump?

                    6. “And if not to Trump, why do you think the remaining 1.7M votes should have gone to Trump?”

                      If you have to ask this question, then you have not read a single I have written in this thread.

              2. The LP vote dropped because they ran a far less qualified candidate this time, the Dems were more openly Marxist, and many people wanted to dump Trump.

                1. Yes, but if you’re claiming that the 1% of remaining LP votes should have gone to Trump, then how do you explain where the 3-4% of LP votes change from 2016 went? Why wouldn’t you assume they went to Trump?

                  In that scenario the margins would have been far worse for Trump had those 3-4% voted for Jorgensen.

          2. Trump lost votes with white dudes compared to last time, and made inroads with basically everyone else. He by no means won any minority votes, but he got a larger slice of those pies than he did in 2016. These shifts are millions of votes, any shift in libertarian voting is marginal in comparison.

            As for why white dudes changed their minds, I’m not sure. Could be that 4 years of Trump made them rethink their choices, but I’d bet a significant number of them changed because of the nonstop firehose of shame that came with being a Trump voter. That constant hectoring is like erosion, at first it seems ineffective but over time you can clearly see the damage.

            1. I think pretending that white men do not exist as a distinct demographic may have had something to do with it.

              1. I’d say the problem is more pretending that all the other groups do exist.

                1. When one party does nothing but break people up into those groups, and most of the people in those groups go along with it and vote for them, then those groups exist, whether you like it or not.

          3. It was Nader in 2000.

            1. Right, it’s hard to keep all of these fringe candidate spoilers straight.

              If only we had a two party system this would all work itself out much better for everyone, except in the cases where it doesn’t.

              1. Apparently libertarians manage to simultaneously be:
                – irrelevant
                – closet marxists who love Joe Biden, and
                – people that totally would have voted for Trump if they weren’t stupid idealists and thus totally spoiled the election.

                1. 1. Correct
                  2. Correct
                  3. Correct

                  Now, it is probably impossible for any single person to be all three, but all three types certainly do exist among the class of people that call themselves libertarians.

          4. Yup. From where I sit a whole lot of libertarians abandoned the party this election.

    2. Yes that article was spot on. We could have avoided Biden and Harris for the next 8 or 12 or 16 years (yes it’s possible) but instead libertarians took some high road off the beaten path toward freedom that only leads to a garbage dump.

      Democrats destroy bit by bit where it counts. They don’t care about freedom, liberty, the bill of rights. They have proven it time and time again. America is a nation in decline and libertarians helped it just enough so the slope of that decline increases.

      1. As if Harris has any chance of ever winning a national election.

        1. Thats what people said about biden all the times he failed.

          1. And Biden didn’t win this election.

            Trump lost it by being Trump.

            There is a difference. If you want to place blame, put it where it belongs. The guy you preferred was a colossal asshat. Whether that means he’s unfit to lead is debatable, but it does mean he needs to take the blame for his own actions (as do you) and doing what he needed to do to earn more votes, rather than projecting that blame elsewhere. You say had the 1% L vote voted R then T would have won.

            He also would have won by being 1% less Trump.

            You’re making the exact same mistake D made after Hillary lost in 16. You’re trying to point fingers at others instead of having a good bout of introspection.

            Rather than lamenting the loss of Trump, perhaps maybe concentrate on a red wave in 22. The situation is ripe. Don’t fuck it up by blaming others for your candidate’s inadequacies.

            1. “And Biden didn’t win this election.”

              He did though, so we do not need to proceed to the hypothetical sophistry.

              1. Trump performed better with minorities than any non D candidate in 60 years.
                Trump improved on his 2016 performance by millions of votes.
                Trump being Trump got you criminal justice reform, reduced regulation, lower taxes, the first Arab states since Egypt and Jordan a half century ago to establish official relations with Israel and endorse their right to exist, no new wars, and extraction from the Paris climate accord.
                Stop being a dickless bitch more invested in masturbatory griping, and do some introspection yourself.
                Or bend the knee to totalitarian Marxists.
                Doesn’t much matter to me anymore.

                PS: for the record, I blame the probable fraud – but if yall want to bitch or gloat about voting for an academic who promotes marxism instead of the only president who has ever even tried to fight much of what you claim to fight against, I’m going to call you out for being servile and immature tools of the very Top Men you claim to despise.

                1. If Trump’s legal challenges manage to turn things around, I’ll be the first person to apologize for my defeatism and admit I pulled the trigger far too early. I think he has a chance, but not a good chance.

                  But, if he lost. He lost.

                  Sometimes people really need to stick a fork in that socket to learn their lessons.

      2. They care about certain freedoms. They just look at freedom differently in a way that winds up looking very constrained to us.

        I think most of them are not really pro-abortion, in that most of them would not favor mandatory abortions, just one’s freedom to choose one. A lot of their idea of liberty is what they’d probably consider effective liberty (i.e. positive liberty), i.e. having the resources to enable certain choices, not just the absence of prohibitions on them. The only trouble is that those are resources they have to take from someone else.

    3. More Republicans stayed home than Libertarians voted.

      A Biden president and GOP Senate (and SCOTUS) is a pretty good combination.

      4 more years of Trump and you might have gotten a president Harris and VP AOC.

      1. It’s good that we have a socialist president now because we might have had a socialist president later.


        1. The idea that Biden is socialist is fucking retarded.

          He’s a squishy centrist.

          1. A squishy centrist? What does that even mean? If you mean he is moldable, and subject to manipulation, you are correct. That means the outright socialists infesting the Democrat party can, and will, manipulate him.

            And, he is only a “squishy centrist,” if that, by today leftward shifting metrics. If Biden adopted the policy positions he adopted in 2020, in 2010, he’d have been labelled a socialist. If he had done so in 2000, he’d be seen a communist.

            The fact that you call Biden a “centrist” only illustrate that you, along with millions of people in the country, have already come to accept socialism to such a great degree that you no longer even recognize it for what it is.

          2. The idea that Biden is his own man who will be calling the shots is incredibly stupid, and proves your ability to assess the world around you is severely lacking.

      2. There is, at this time, no guarantee that the GOP holds the Senate. The odds of SCOTUS, if the past is indeed prologue, stepping in to strike down the next progressive leviathan that comes down the pike is slim to none.

      3. 4 more years of Trump and you might have gotten a president Harris and VP AOC.

        Who is to say that won’t be the ticket in 2024?

        1. Nothing, but they won’t have “orange man bad” to motivate voters in 4 years. Unless Trump is foolish enough to try to stay at the center of attention.

          1. And we won’t have legitimate elections.
            But hey, you satisfied your self righteous feelz while burying your head in the sand, so no biggie.

            1. You don’t know what I did or how I feel.

              Here’s part of it: If the fate of the nation really hung on 1% if the vote going the way you think it should have, then we were already done for. When you are hanging by a thread, you are almost certainly going to fall. Maybe you are right. But if so, another 4 years of Trump probably wasn’t going to fix it. I remain slightly more optimistic than you. Maybe I’m wrong. Time will tell.

      4. No, I don’t think Harris would’ve had a shot at getting a presidential nomination in 2024. She did poorly in primaries this year. And will AOC even be 35 years old in 2025?

    4. So when do you start blaming the unionist who received so much from the Donald? Who would of thunk that the steelworkers union would stab him in the back after he was so giving to those greedy bastards.

      1. Are they here?
        I blame the fraud.
        But libertarians are still idiots.
        If not for fraud, you just gave the left power – which seems all you are capable of accomplishing.

      2. I blame Trump for losing the election.

        I also blame the Cowboys for losing their games.

        1. If only Trump had been more like what the media, tech barons, blmantifa, suburban house wives, the deep state, and stuck up libertarians wanted him to be like, he would’ve won…

          1. Yeah, that’s kind of how elections work.

            I’d like to see less influence from the media, tech barons and the deep state. But that’s been going on for a long time now.

    5. Libertarians didn’t cost Trump the election, he lost it all by himself, by not acting presidential in the first debate, and by not acting presidential and showing leadership on COVID-19 (or explaining better why lockdowns would be overreacting and economically devastating).

      When you lose the old people’s votes, you lose.
      Plenty of independents didn’t like the Democrats (as evidenced by the House and Senate results), but voted for Biden because they didn’t like Trump.

      1. So you care more about feels and words than actions. Says more about you than anything.

        1. No. But it matters to lots and lots of people.

          Put the blame on the guy who wouldn’t do what he needed to win, not those who didn’t prefer him.

        2. I don’t see CE saying anything about his own feels. Is what he said untrue? Hard to say, but it seems like a pretty reasonable take on what motivates voters. It looks like the only demographic Trump lost votes from was old white people. Lots of people do vote based on that kind of stuff, foolish as it may be.

        3. Wait, weren’t you and goldschlager just saying we need to be pragmatic?

          Of so, then so do you – if appealing to the feels of old people is what is necessary then do what is necessary.

          1. Enjoy Biden.

      2. This just isn’t true. He was showing leadership on coronavirus, and when it was “showing up in the polls”, as they say, the media simply stopped covering it.

        1. The slavish devotion of some libertarians to media narratives dictated to them by Top Men is just shameful

          1. He’s talking about perceptions. “Acting presidential” should have been a clue there.

  3. For a few beautiful days last week…

    Oh my.

    1. Well, in her defense, the weather around DC has been very pleasant recently.

      1. Too bad you have to breathe the fresh air through a piece of cloth.

        1. How else are you gonna signal your conformity?

        2. Just take the mask off. That”s what we do here in Arizona.

      2. 93% of DC went for Biden, a nor’easter couldn’t ruin their party.

        1. We should still probably do the right thing and send them one.

          Actually, we’re still in hurricane season until the end of the month. I feel like DC is ready to get a good ‘cane strike.

  4. This one’s for you, John,

    LP national chair:

    Free advice for the President-elect:

    The Libertarian voters who control the balance of power in the election have specific policy goals that generally align with Democratic Party values.

    Working with Libertarians to implement policy solutions to those problems would be wise.

    Americans broadly support more open legal immigration for peaceful people, a position the
    has supported for nearly 50 years.

    Take advantage of that and build a tripartisan effort to fix some of America’s big problems.

    Libertarians can bridge the gap.

    1. Oh the sweet innocent naivete just pervades his statement.

      1. Yeah, all political communication must be combative and divisive!

        1. I think the point is that no one in authority at either major party gives a single flying fuck what the LP National Chair has to say about power brokering in national politics.

          1. Then why would any L give a flying fuck about supporting the R and D parties if they won’t give back?

            I’m told I need to be pragmatic and take that ass fucking – they can at least be pragmatic and give a reach around.

            1. Do you prefer an ass fucking, or a beheading?

            2. Power dynamic.

              They don’t have to give a fuck what Libertarians think because we have no sway and absolutely nothing of value to offer them. I’m talking about big-L here, the party. At the national level it’s dysfunctional and meaningless, no one with two brain cells to rub together would waste any time negotiating with it or their National Chair. Christ, they can’t even convince libertarians to vote Libertarian most of the time, if you can’t even get your voters in line why should I waste my time with you?

              On the other hand, since both major parties have a great deal of influence over how libertarians get to live their lives it’s a good idea to try to nudge them towards the right answers even if we know they’ll never really get there.

        2. Wow. You have zero reading comprehension. My comment didn’t imply that at all retard.

          1. She’s a squawking bird named Dee.

            1. Repetitive R Mac bot is repetitive.

    2. who control the balance of power


      1. Libertarians are literally being blamed for costing Trump the election.

        1. And democrats still won’t give a fuck about you.

          1. They will ensure the party remains on the ballot though.

    3. Right; all 1% of them.

      1. If we don’t control the balance then WTF is everyone freaking out over us shifting the balance?

    4. We do need more open legal immigration to the USA. The trouble is that the issue’s been bound up with illegal immigration, which selects for persons with the proven propensity to break the law to stay here.

      Both sides are right. Wider gate, higher fence.


    These days, the term “endless wars” is being employed more as political sloganeering than as a serious critique of continued U.S. involvement in places like Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, and Somalia.


      Contrary to Donald Trump’s impulsive policies in the Middle East, Joe Biden is expected to shift back to a more conventional US stance and re-engage with Iran, redrawing regional geopolitics

      1. I’m sure all Arab states are happy.

        Trump was on his way to re-shaping the Mid-East with some interesting treaties. Now. Potentially poof.

        Man do I want him to pull this off.

      2. Holy shit, that ratio. Fuckin’ LOL.

    2. Reuters agrees:

      WASHINGTON (Reuters) – “After winning support from scores of prominent Republicans during his campaign, Joe Biden will take office with the possibility of unprecedented bipartisan backing on national security as he moves to restore traditional policy toward America’s allies and its adversaries”.

      What does restoring “traditional policy towards America’s adversaries” with “unprecedented bipartisan backing” look like? Anything a libertarian publication should be concerned itself with?

      1. After winning support of scores of GOP warmomgers, Biden is restoring our traditional policy of killing brown people in the Mid East.

        1. Well, Trump was doing that, too–we’d just be going back to broadening our involvement in other theaters.

          I’m going to laugh my ass off, honestly, if we send troops back into Syria and provoke the Taliban into breaking the treaty in Afghanistan so we can justify yet another “surge.”

          1. I think your instincts are spot on.

            Incidentally, this would be the perfect time for Russia to continue its incursions into the Caucuses and Ukraine.

            1. “Incidentally, this would be the perfect time for Russia to continue its incursions into the Caucuses and Ukraine.”

              Especially since Gazprom’s hammer lock on the European NG market has been reassured, after noises about the US exporting LNG, or any new Qatari or other Gulf NG pipelines to Europe are now likely toast. He’ll have plenty of money to bring back Glorious Mother Russia if he wants. Or keep bribing their dramatically rising Muslim minority from taking it from him.

              1. The Muslims in Russia make excellent irregulars and shock troops, and Putin has no qualms about unleashing them on the world.

      2. It looks like a drone blowing up a wedding, forever.

    3. That didn’t take long.

  6. But with the election called on Saturday for Biden and his running mate, Sen. Kamala Harris (D–Calif.), the pair have begun releasing plans for their administration, delighting dancing-in-the-street Democrats and leaving libertarians, once again, with a lot of dread.

    Libertarians can be idiots?

  7. Hey, Reason, why don’t you task your science editor with investigating some of these “data anomolies” in the vote counts?

    It might be a good and interesting article on how bureaucracy is corrupt.

    1. Is this another instance of the talking point that JesseAz called “Brenfords Law”?

      1. You can try to dismiss the message because of the messenger, but you’re not arguing in good faith. He’s not the only one that brought it up.

        There’s also this:

        Can you explain these anamolies away?

        1. There are two accusations in that analysis. The first is outlier ballot dumps. I find that one pretty damn compelling.

          The second analysis essentially says “over time we should expect to see ballots roughly proportional but trending towards trump as rural communities report in”. The proof of their theory is one red state, FL where trump won by huge amounts. The second state they show is MN where the vote is continuously pro Biden but gets slightly less Biden over time.

          While the evidence for the latter is interesting it doesn’t seem compelling. Did this same trend happen in states that went blue the same weight FL went to Trump? While we like to stereotype rural voters, it is possible that they still trend blue in certain areas. For example MD rural areas are covered with well to do estates that likely vote blue. VA is similar.

          That second theory also rests on the notion that rural votes will tend to be the last counted. There are just so many reasons that might not be true.

          So I think there is ample smoke in the first set of analyses. But the second one needs more evidence.

        2. Hmm, what’s the exact count of people who brought up the Benford’s Law talking point? It doesn’t start with a 1!

          “Having the distribution of leading digits stray from the expected percentages predicted by Benford’s Law can happen by chance, though it is more common when the law’s assumptions are violated, as they often are with vote tallies. Benford’s Law, and other math-based inquiries, can be used to detect voter fraud, but the vast majority of these violations are not conclusive evidence of fraud.”

          1. Give a plausible reason for Biden’s totals being the only anomaly, pussy.

            1. Because the conditions for Benford’s Law to apply didn’t hold. That’s always a possibility when using an esoteric mathematical analysis technique.

              I’m sure you’ve done a rigid validation of all the calculations.

            2. If you are intellectually curious, can put aside your partisanship and challenge your desire to believe:


      2. Why are Biden’s totals the only vote tallies that violate it?

        1. Not true. Venezuelan and iranian elections often violate it.

      3. So because I misspelled it on my phone, no statistics were violated. Got it dummy.

        1. You didn’t misspell it. You tried to recite a right-wing talking point and f’d up the name, revealing that you are bluffing when you try to make it sound like you knew all about Benford’s Law before you read about it yesterday, or that you know all the math well enough to judge whether it is being used correctly in this analysis. You bluff all the time.

  8. NYT 2012:

    Error and Fraud at Issue as Absentee Voting Rises

    Yet votes cast by mail are less likely to be counted, more likely to be compromised and more likely to be contested than those cast in a voting booth, statistics show. Election officials reject almost 2 percent of ballots cast by mail, double the rate for in-person voting.

    “The more people you force to vote by mail,” Mr. Sancho said, “the more invalid ballots you will generate.”

    1. BBC 2016:

      Vote rigging: How to spot the tell-tale signs

      Too many voters
      Watch the turnout figures ‒ they can be a big giveaway.

      A high turnout in specific areas

      Large numbers of invalid votes

      1. That was then. This is now.

        1. That was Zen, this is Tao

          1. Wish there was a love button for this comment.

    2. Don’t you know? Voter fraud almost never happens.

      1. Sorry, that should be mostly never happens.

        1. And its almost mostly peaceful.

        2. It’s only the Russians that are wily enough to pull it off.

      2. especially not in Wisconsin. 90% turnout is average for them.

    3. Better archive that shit before it gets memory-holed.

    4. “The more people you force to vote by mail,” Mr. Sancho said, “the more invalid ballots you will generate.”

      That quote seems to directly contradict the claims that votes were manufactured for Biden. The point they are making is that absentee ballots are more likely to be disqualified. Which hurts Biden, the candidate who encouraged his people to vote by mail.

      1. Well, when a state’s highest court decides that there are, by definition, no circumstances under which a ballot can be disqualified, every ballot is presumptively and irrevocably valid.

  9. On others, I am more fearful of their administration than of Trump’s (if in part only because of the latter’s incompetence).

    Ha. No fucking shit. But at least we’re not going to have to hear about any of it since it won’t be covered.

  10. Joe Biden’s Presidency Is Coming. It Will Be Bad In Predictable Ways.
    Now you tell us.

  11. Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine sees early success…

    Alas, not early enough. PERHAPS DELIBERATELY SO. Duh duh duhhhhhhhhhh.

    1. Pure coincidence, I’m sure.

    2. It’s sad when that’s my first thought on hearing that news.

      1. They have found their path to unlimited power and they aim to keep it.

    3. Covid is suddenly not a problem, so they’re too late to cash in on the crisis.

      1. Mandatory government-funded vaccination.

        1. Oh, at first I thought you said vacation.

      2. Watch for it to suddenly be “discovered” in late January/early February that about half the cases and deaths were mis-diagnosed, due to using crappy Chinese-made testing kits that resulted in false positives, and that most of the people who died actually died from being old and fat, not from the coof.

        1. Just switch to Singapore method and it would drop deaths by over half. They only document covid deaths if accompanied by respiratory issues.

        2. Well, that would be one bright spot in all of this. I’m not so sure it’s going to play out that way, though.

    4. Amazing isn’t it just last week if Trump had said they had a vaccine the MSM would have called it fake news for votes today MSM is touting the vaccines. Its an election miracle

      1. BTW the WSJ had an article where the CDC said they are going to track people with an app who have been given the vaccine. And they said that was just a conspiracy and no one was going to track anybody. god people are fucking stupid since Gates did say he wanted to track vaccines

        1. How is this not a violation of medical privacy laws?


    Libertarians Spoil the Election
    Jo Jorgensen exceeds Biden’s margin in Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona and Georgia.

    By Walter E. Block
    Nov. 8, 2020

    Did the Libertarian Party throw the election to Joe Biden? Maybe. At this writing nominee Jo Jorgensen’s vote total exceeds Mr. Biden’s margin over President Trump in Arizona, Georgia, Nevada and Pennsylvania, enough to change the outcome.

    In 2000 the Green Party was accused of ruining things for the Democrats. Did Ralph Nader throw the election from Al Gore to George W. Bush? The cognoscenti are still divided, but the 2020 parallels are strong. Probably most Green voters would have gone Democratic if forced into a binary choice. Similarly, on the Libertarian-O-Meter, Mr. Trump scores much higher than Mr. Biden.

    Yes, the Donald is a protectionist, and free trade is the preferred policy of those who favor economic and personal liberty. But when it comes to lowering taxes and easing regulations on business, the party of the elephant is far more closely aligned to the libertarian philosophy than that of the donkey. Mr. Trump has appointed conservatives to the Supreme Court, not libertarians like Randy Barnett, Clint Bolick, Jacob Huebert, Gregory Rome or Brandon Thibodeaux. But supporters of the freedom philosophy prefer judges who adhere to the U.S. Constitution over those who make things up as they go along.

    1. continued

      In contrast, Mr. Biden is a puppet in the marionette hands of out-and-out socialists like Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Yes, there are some issues on which libertarians are closer to Democrats, such as Oregon’s decriminalization of heroin and cocaine. But these are few and far between.

      The national Libertarian Party started in 1971, several state parties earlier. In 1969 I had the honor to run for the New York Assembly. My motto was “Disassemble the Assembly.” I didn’t win; I’m not sure my vote total reached triple digits. But I’ve been a staunch member of the party ever since.

      In 2016 physician Donald Miller, historian Ralph Raico and I started a group called Libertarians for Trump. Our advice to libertarian voters was: If you live in Massachusetts or California, strong blue states, vote for Gary Johnson, the Libertarian nominee. The Republicans will lose big there, and your vote for the porcupine won’t help the donkey beat the elephant. Likewise in Louisiana or Alabama, where Mr. Trump was sure to win. But if you live in a purple state, don’t vote Libertarian. It is crucial that Donald beat Hillary!

      I kick myself for not reinstituting this effort in 2019. My thought was that Gary Johnson, a former governor, was well-known and might manage 5% of the vote. He actually registered 3.27%, still more than three times the previous record of 1.06%, set by Ed Clark in 1980. I figured Ms. Jorgenson for 0.25%. She now looks on track to exceed Mr. Clark’s percentage slightly—and hand the presidency to Mr. Biden.

      Pardon me while I beat my head against the wall. How could libertarians in purple states be so stupid?

      Mr. Block is a professor of economics at Loyola University New Orleans.

      1. Yup.

        They’ve acted like nothing but sophomoric fools these past four years refusing to see the bigger picture at play.

      2. It would be interesting to see how many of the Libertarian votes in those states were first time L voters. Many former R’s because of their Christian views could no longer support Trump because of the damage they felt he was doing to the name of Christ. They likely didn’t want to vote for Biden so they choose a third party. In states that didn’t have a strong Christian candidate the party they chose might have been Libertarian. I know several in Texas for which that was the case. I think it played out on a larger scale more then we realize.

    2. My Dem friends are convinced a vote for L is a vote against Biden.

      They should make up their minds.

    3. people don’t seem to understand something….. a tax cut without spending cuts is a tax increase guaranteed in the future. there is nothing libertarian about establishing a permanent $trillion deficit with full knowledge that it will require more future theft to pay for it. you can’t cut taxes without responsibility and claim to in any way align with libertarians.

      1. Nah, we’re supposed to be pragmatic and do what we’re told.

        1. Don’t worry, you will from now on.
          Totalitarians don’t really tolerate disobedience.
          Good luck with that.

  13. ‘Toxic lockdown’ sees huge rise in babies harmed or killed

  14. Also, does anybody believe Nick would have written his article about how he’s feeling good about the future if Trump had won, but all other results had been exactly the same?

    1. I think Nick might have. He’s been pretty sane about Trump.

    2. Yes. Gillespie’s an older generation of libertarian.

  15. How British pub owners are getting around new alcohol sales restrictions…

    By not extending COVID by dancing in the streets celebrating Joe?

    Ha! jk

  16. No Matter the Liberal Metric Chosen, the Bush/Cheney Administration Was Far Worse Than Trump.
    Fantasies of a Trump-led fascist coup have redounded to the benefit of many — especially those responsible for abuses far worse than those of the current president.

    1. I forgot, how long did it take for W to congratulate President Gore?
      George W. Bush congratulates Biden, Harris

    2. I heard Cheney was coming in to act as a foreign policy advisor to the Biden administration (if it actually materializes).

      1. gotta pay back the neocons somehow

  17. Joe Biden appeared to clinch a victory on Saturday morning to become 46th president of the United States, closing out an election cycle that was dominated in the final months by debates around COVID-19, the economy, and police reform………..VISIT HERE FOR FULL DETAIL.

  18. Reason has never and will never be critical of Biden because every employee is a closet communist who hates liberty. After all, you either love Trump or you’re a commie. So this article doesn’t exist. Nope. La la la la la I can’t year you la la la la laaaaa!

    1. We have always been at war with Eastasia.

    2. You got your preferred outcome in the election and you’re still broken?

      1. When did I say I wanted Biden to win?

        1. When you spent a week giddy that Trump lost. In not one of your posts the last week have you even attempted to set at one on what your worries for Biden were. What did you think the consequence of Trump losing was? Or did you not think your thoughts through like usual?

          1. Giddy?


        2. Haha you just admitted you’re broken.


    Ask Siri “how old is the president”.

    What in the actual fresh hell.

    1. They don’t call it Big tech for nothing.


    These lists of executive orders Biden reportedly plans to issue on Day One are a huge gift to his business partners in Beijing. Literally everything they could have wanted. The end of America First is the beginning of China First.

  21. Joe Biden becomes the first person since 1960 to win the presidency without carrying Ohio…

    Well he won by not really carrying PA, so…

  22. Check out the absentee voter differential graph
    In both Michigan and Wisconsin, several vote dumps occurred at approximately 4am on Wednesday morning, which showed that Joe Biden received almost 100 percent of the votes. President Trump was leading by hundreds of thousands of votes in both states as America went to sleep, and turnout in the state of Wisconsin seems to be particularly impossible.

    With absentee ballots, former vice-president Joe Biden was also up 60 points in Pennsylvania and almost 40 points in Michigan According to the New York Times. Comparably, Biden was only up single digits in absentee voting in most other battleground states. Wisconsin has not yet been reported.

  23. So that’s the COVID plan? Asking state and local governments to do mask mandates?

    Is that what was stopping them? A president hadn’t asked yet?

    Is this a joke?

    1. If by ask you mean withholding federal dollars if they don’t, we’ll then yes that is the actual fascist plan.

        1. Just wait til they start confiscating money directly from your bank account

    2. at least he finally admitted he can’t do a national mask mandate

      1. He’s already telling, as “president elect”, people that everyone should wear a mask.
        Don’t worry, it’s just peer pressure.


    So antifa wants to target Republican donors. Not corporate donors, but individuals that donated 5, 10, 20, or 100 bucks. To teach them a lesson. They will be releasing our addresses. That’s unity for you. Democrats want no unity.

    1. Sure they do. It’s simply that “Unity” requires submission to the desires of the whole. They will tell you what those desires are.

      The guy doing this is a troll, but early things that look like trolling by the Left—like protesting on a bank VP’s front porch, early in the Obama Presidency—have a way of becoming common practice shortly thereafter. Anyone else remember newspapers compiling and publishing lists of CHL holders, a few years ago?

      It’s intimidation, and poorly done. But successful intimidation isn’t the point. Chaos is.

      1. I’m not really sure why we should call it trolling. When has the left ever walked back something they’ve said they were going to do?

        Also, that tweet doesn’t say anything about the left’s Enemies List, it’s a document of Chink whataboutism.

        1. My bad. I thought this was the guy tweeting about making and disseminating a Google Maps or the like that was continuously populated with every public donor to the Trump Campaign? Said guy has trolled about similar stunts in the past. BFD, in his case, but not when you get Representatives like AOC making public tweets implying that Trump supporters should be confronted and asked to justify their support.

          Past pushing the envelope becomes present practice, is all I’m saying. I don’t like the trend.

        2. Closing Guantanamo. Stopping the seas from rising.

          Just to name 2 things.

  25. In Wisconsin, more than a third of COVID-19 tests returned yesterday were positive.

    Get your licks in while you can, COVID reporters.

    1. Positive is a good thing now.

    2. I’m no scientist but I don’t think licking people is going to help with the COVID problem.

      1. But it might make them happy.


    No joke: Ahead of U.N. review of U.S. rights record, China—which herded 1 million Muslims into camps to kill their religion & culture—asks: “What measures has U.S. taken to eliminate systematic racism, racial discrimination, white supremacy, religious intolerance and xenophobia?“

    1. Seeing as we’re the most diverse country on the planet, and we don’t have anything resembling “white supremacy”, I’d just tell China to fuck right off.

    2. The Han Chinese are calling another country out for racial discrimination and ruling in a way to keep one ethnic group superior?! LOL I’m not even mad, just amazed.

      Who says God doesn’t have a sense of humor?


    If I’d known Biden was open to ‘lockdowns’ as he now states, which is something historically unprecedented in any pandemic, and a terrifying practice, one that won’t ever end because elites love it, I would never have voted for him.

    1. Was Naomi Wolf not paying attention for the past seven months? The Dems have been favoring lockdowns since the end of March, unless attending “peaceful” protests.

      1. Was Naomi Wolf not paying attention for the past seven months?

        Yes, she was, she’s just lying about it.

    2. We’ll ring as Biden, like Trump, has no power to effect lockdowns, why does it matter at all?

  28. “On some things—like internet and First Amendment issues—Biden and Harris are neither worse nor better than what Trump-era Republicans were offering.”

    Again, the GOP complaint is that the Tech platforms are censoring speech too much and the Democrat’s complaint is that they are not suppressing speech enough. Even if both are thinking the cause of the problems is the same, one is clearly better for the cause of the free flow of information.

    1. That’s a critical point to consider–which side is actually calling for *more* free speech and transparency, and which side is promoting censorship within long-time open media platforms?

      When everyone started going online back in the late 90s, if you had told me at the time that the Democrats and their leftist allies were going to be the ones trying to aggressively censor free speech and distribution of information on the internet, I would have wondered what kind of strong drugs you were on. It shows just how entrenched they’ve become in the political, corporate, and cultural establishment that they’ve gone completely in opposition to the very thing they would have stood for 25 years ago.

      1. Opinion on this Big Reset idea having traction with a lot of the World’s leaders?

        1. That’s been a fetish with these people for a while. I have no doubt they’d be bold enough to try and implement something like that (it’s the whole point of Biden’s team pimping the stupid “Build Back Better” program), the question is whether they could actually get it done without causing a lot of unexpected upheaval. My bet is on No.

          1. Unexpected upheaval is likely the point. Said upheaval will break the middle class, or at least hamstring the US enough that it can’t prevent it happening further elsewhere.

            1. I don’t think they’re that deliberately self-defeating to implement some kind of HYDRA-type global chaos agenda to justify consolidating their power, because there’s no way to predict how an event like that will play out. These types honestly thrive on stability and predictability, and the point of these proposals is to implement social engineering programs in the wake of a chaotic event, not start one deliberately.

              They’re actually quite passive in the sense of reacting to chaos after the fact, it’s just that they pay think tanks millions of dollars a year to sit around and come up with these goofy contingency plans and galaxy-brained programs.

  29. Even the AP is starting to question the auditability of the Dominion Software we used in over 1/3rd of all voting pricincts:

    1. Laxalt identified several complaints about the more than 600,000 mail-in votes cast in Nevada. Laxalt said about 200,000 of those were verified through a machine, and never by a human. He also charged that Clark County registrar of voters Joe Gloria set the factory setting on the machine to accept signatures with an only 40% match.

      The signature verification machine utilized by Nevada was set below the recommended settings.

    2. Twitter, FB, and YouTube keep removing any content that may question anything about the election that already has known issues in the thousands of votes.

    3. Wisconsin still has not removed the ballots that they had their clerks fill out the witness adresses for. (That is against state law).

      Wisconsin election clerks were told, and followed the direction, to modify mail-in ballots and fill in the blanks where witnesses left out critical info.
      Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

    4. There are too many irregularities to ignore.

      It’s also pretty retarded they’re still counting. To me, and I’m old enough to remember such things as an observer of history and politics, delays like this generally point to FRAUD. Not incompetence.

      Maybe all this is just noise. I don’t know. But how the GOP did very well pretty much across the board except with Trump doesn’t pass the sniff test. I could be wrong.

      Biden. GTFOH. If Libertarians did swing this election, then they’re idiots in this case because Jo wasn’t the sort of candidate worth plunging the country into such a mess. I don’t think Trump was so bad to calculate this. Shit, just his record on war should have been enough for libertarians to accept.

      1. The band-aid needed to be ripped off at some point. If not now, when?

        How long should we meekly submit to the lesser evil?

        1. You don’t have the option of the lesser evil anymore, so congrats?

    5. Will Twitter and Facebook block this AP story because it questions their pro Biden policy?

    6. February 23, 2020

  30. Coronavirus lockdown in Greece requires people to text authorities before leaving home
    People will only be allowed to leave their homes for work, exercise and medical reasons

  31. Among the many promises under each category are a pledge to “establish a U.S. Public Health Jobs Corps,” “fully use the Defense Production Act,”

    Wasn’t Trump lambasted by the left for suggesting using the Defense Production Act ?

    1. U.S. Public Health Jobs Corps”
      Code for you will work where we tell you to work, the health of the nation depends on it. it does solve the the jobless problem if you like digging ditchs with shovels instead of tractors like most modern countries

      1. +1 White Sea Canal.

        Social prophylaxis to follow.

      2. Congratulations, you’re an Essential Worker, comrade!

  32. “For a few beautiful days last week, Americans could bask in the knowledge that President Donald Trump was likely on his way out…”

    We can hope the TDS is fatal here, with a long, slow and painful progression.

    1. And despite that nearly half of the voters cast a ballot for Trump.

    2. When are you and Nardz gonna get together and start murdering your political foes?

      1. The New dictatorship you’re celebrating will take care of that.
        Lol at when the feds take you out.

        1. They won’t take him out. No need to. Like we saw with the Soviet Union, their policies will leave him, and most others in the lower and middle classes, shivering in the dark, with cheap booze and probably other drugs to distract him from the decay. Likely, that will be enough.

          And just like a bus driver in Leningrad, circa 1978, he’ll be able to use his education to wax poetic about song lyrics and the finer philosophical points of his chosen ideology. Instead of magnetizdat and the role of the Proletariat, it’ll be Ministry lyrics and the Nonaggression Principle.


        2. Yeah, because not being a Trump fan and refusing to vote for either candidate equals celebrating Biden’s win. Sure. Don’t you have someone to murder right now?

          1. Don’t you have another audience to amaze with your stupidity?

          2. Just remember people: sarcasmic is an emotionally broken and intellectually stunted asshole, but it’s everyone else’s fault

            1. Your what hurts?

            2. Wait.

              Sarcastic (with whom I disagree more often than not) is “emotionally stunted”, yet you’re the one insisting that come Jan were all be in a socialist shithole where people are dragged off to camps and/or murdered?


              1. Live in denial as long as you can.
                Your fate don’t matter to me anymore.

      2. “When are you and Nardz gonna get together and start murdering your political foes?”

        When are you going to make the world a smarter and better place by fucking off and dying?

        1. Ah yes, typical Sevo “Why don’t you go kill yourself, nobody likes you you stupid poo-poo head!”

          I’m really sorry that you peaked in high school. Your life must be miserable.

          1. Don’t you have another audience to amaze with your stupidity?

    3. And look at the shit that’s coming in.

      Funny how people gathering to celebrate outside for Biden weren’t in danger of Covid given the media said squat about it.

      Funny that.

      1. And Biden said nothing about it.

  33. All things considered, this election went quite smoothly. Were there isolated exceptions? Yes.

    Considering widespread mail-in ballots created a new potential for misuse, yes.

    1. The election smoothly.

      The new ‘peaceful protests’?

      1. mostly fair election


    It’s going to be absolutely fascinating when Joe Biden does exactly what the Obama Administration did and play footsie with Putin. We’re going to see Democrats do a 180 on Russia.

    1. Not like such a pivot hasn’t happened before. Look at attitudes towards getting involved Soviet Union in 1940 vs 1943. Dirty Reds vs Mission to Moscow.

      That it’s ridiculous on its face, is partly the idea. Five lights, and all that.


    de Blasio just shut down the Sukkot festival in Crown Heights, a Hasidic funeral in Williamsburg, and closed public parks in Orthodox neighborhoods throughout #Brooklyn.

    No such public health concerns today, apparently:


      Oh look. While De Blasio was partying it up with a large crowd celebrating the election, he sent cops to harass a Jewish pottery business that wasn’t even open but was simply prepping craft kits for the upcoming holiday.
      Quote Tweet

      1. Honestly, at this point if New York City was hit by another 9/11, would half the country even care, or would they just shrug and say, “And nothing of value was lost”?

        1. more people died from covid than during 9/11

          1. More people die of heart disease every year than will die from the coof, even in this early novel stage.

          2. Right over your head. Do you try, or is it natural?

        2. Honestly, if the place were nuked, and Albany with it. most of NY would be pretty happy. Upstate would be better off. And, the country would be saved from having to hear any more ridiculous bullshit from Cuomo.

  36. But libertarians who opposed Trump did so precisely because he deviated from limited government and classical principles in significant ways, whether we’re talking free markets, free expression and other civil liberties, or foreign policy.
    Not like he avoided wars and help negotiate ME normalizations between Israel and Muslim countries. I mean, he should have started wars if he wanted limited government in regards to foreign policy, right?

    1. Free minds, free markets, and dead brown people.

      1. “…dead brown people..”

        Unless they make it here, then give them citizenship. We’re not going to get to ‘1 billion Americans’ without their help.

        1. Bomb them then invite their families in, preferably unmarried males of military age with no job prospects

          1. Well, someone has to fuck your daughter at burning man ….

    2. see how libertarian he is…. he didn’t launch any nukes and kept our men and women fighting abroad at the exact same level as when he took office…… if you have to set the bar this low, you must know the person you are trying to idolize is complete garbage.


    Thank you
    for developing a COVID-19 vaccine.
    had four years to do it and couldn’t.

    1. Can’t make this stuff up.

      1. NEVER underestimate the stupidity of the average human, and the eagerness of others to (successfully) exploit that.

    2. Well. Sounds like Pfizer had it before the election and played some politics. Had they announced it before the election, it would have benefitted Trump. Well played Pfizer. Now better hope the shot/vaccine doesn’t hurt people.

      1. “Well played Pfizer. Now better hope the shot/vaccine doesn’t hurt people.”

        Why? They’re backstopped from any liability, and that doesn’t work, who thinks they won’t be indemnified? They played ball; they’ll be rewarded.

  38. In Wisconsin, more than a third of COVID-19 tests returned yesterday were positive. “The 4,280 new confirmed cases account for 33.5% of the 12,761 tests that came back Sunday,”

    No one with two working brain cells cares.

    1. What was the infection rate?
      Canada is going crazy about cases – still around 2500 in a population of 38 million – but an infection rate around 2%.

      Oooo. Death becomes us all!

      1. Jesus Christ you’re stupid. Canada is quite right to freak out about a relative handful of coronavirus cases because it’s a form of biological warfare and it’s Trump that’s waging it! I mean, think about it – it is a known fact that Trump could have waved his hands and there wouldn’t have been one single case of the coronavirus in the US, which means he could have just as easily waved his hands and there wouldn’t have been one single case of the coronavirus in the entire world! All these people who are blaming Trump for a quarter-of-a-million coronavirus deaths in the United States just don’t get it, Trump is responsible for every single coronavirus death worldwide when he knows full well how to prevent coronavirus yet refuses to divulge the secret!

        1. Ya know he brewed-up the Wu Flu in the WH kitchen late last year. The man’s an evil genius, except when he’s stupid.

  39. By the way… why has Reason completely ignored the story of Democrats successfully throwing the Green Party off of ballots? They literally took away voter choice to help themselves, and Reason didn’t care. Why do they not think the GOP will seek to throw the Libertarian party off ballots now? By not being more vociferous on this action, Reason is inviting harm to all 3rd parties.

    1. “Why do they not think the GOP will seek to throw the Libertarian party off ballots now?”

      But why would the GOP do that? Everyone knows that the Libertarian Party doesn’t mainly hamper Republican votes…. :Blink. Blink:

      Second, why would a court agree to that, even if the GOP proposed it. Voter suppression, yo.

    2. the GOP is constantly fighting to keep us off the ballot…… they have for decades. this isn’t new or any different from the way dems go after greens.

  40. Don’t worry everyone, the guy who mixed up a small family landscaping business with a global luxury hotel chain is on the election fraud case. He is clearly competent to manage this.

  41. People like to forget that every regulation on the books is there for a reason, and almost always that reason before that regulation, a private company hurt people so badly that there needed a regulation. While I do like many of the Liberation views, their view of “freedom” is commonly the freedom for for profit companies hurt and kill others without consequence.

    1. Almost every regulations on the book hurts small businesses owners and private individuals while giving big corporations a competitive advantage. Learn about fixed costs. God you are stupid.

      1. They hurt small businesses by costing them money. They help others in far more substantial ways. These are rules that bring safety to the workplace, prevent pollution of the environment, and stop businesses from abusing their own customers.

        1. While I agree that there is a role for the government in protecting the environment, you’re dead wrong on the other two issues. Workplace safety was on the rise before regulatory agencies got involved, and businesses generally don’t abuse their customers because they want them to come back.

          1. Companies fought hard for the legal principle that they have zero responsibility for worker safety and have historically shown that they will fight almost all worker safety measures, even ones that we consider basic today. And generally companies do want their customers to come back, but that does not stop abuse. In some industries, every company does the same anti-consumer action, so the customers have no choice. In other industries, the customer may be unaware of the abuse and dangers, such as the old patent medicine industry, or companies putting whatever they want into food before labeling and safety standards. Creating new regulations is hard in the US, and the companies fight them all tooth-and-nail, so for a regulation to get made, there is a solid reason behind it.

            1. Creating new regulations is hard in the US, and the companies fight them all tooth-and-nail, so for a regulation to get made, there is a solid reason behind it.

              That’s just false. Many regulations are written by the companies themselves to impose costs on the competition and create barriers for market entry. Many more regulations are written by people who haven’t a fucking clue of what they are writing about, but they gotta keep churning out pages of rules to justify their employment. Sure some regulations have solid reasons behind them, but that’s the exception.

            2. Companies like regulations because it shields them from liability. Especially regarding pollution. If they follow the rules and bad things happen, there are limited options for anyone who is harmed. So you’re totally wrong about this. I don’t doubt that many regulators have good intentions. Don’t forget that road to Hell and how it is paved.

              1. Companies like weak regulations, then they can do what they want yet still claim everything they do is a-ok.

                1. Weak is a very subjective term.

            3. Hard to compete for employees when you get a reputation as not caring about their health and safety.

              Hard to turn a profit if you pay out millions in wrongful death and injury claims to employees.

      2. Soldiermedic76 where were you? Ready to admit you were tken by LDS Propoganda? Or are you gonna be a stubborn piece of shit like your mormon family and never admit you’re wrong?

        Lying sack of shit!

    2. MollyGodiva
      November.9.2020 at 10:30 am
      “People like to forget that every regulation on the books is there for a reason,..”

      I’ll bet you’d prefer people forget how fucking stupid you are, but you keep showing up to remind them.

    3. You feel that way because you are retarded.

    4. Translation: I like being a slave.

    5. Regulations are on the books for three reasons:
      1. so politicians can say they “did something”.
      2. so corporations can be shielded from future lawsuits.
      3. so corporations can increase the barriers to entry for new competitors.

  42. Still, they are unlikely to keep stealing immigrant kids from their parents and sending federal agents to snatch Black Lives Matter protesters off the streets.

    Obama/Biden started the immigrant kids. And it isn’t stealing as many of the kids are not related to the people they cross with.

    Federal agents were not snatching people randomly. This is a known technique used by every single police agency in the country to avoid confrontation of crowds. The people had previously been filmed or sighted committing crimes and the agents waited until they left a mob to engage. This is normal procedure.

    My god the stupidity.

    1. They are less likely to directly stoke so many untrue conspiracy theories on social media.

      Trump Russia?? Secret bank pings to Ukraine??

      The stupidity must not hurt for you.

    2. A common refrain by the “Reason is a conservative rag” commentariat during the Obama presidency was “Bush did it first!”

      Funny to see the “Reason is a leftist rag” commentariat whining how “Obama/Biden did it first!”

      1. No, not even close. In this case it is an entirely valid point since the author stated those policies will end, yet the proof is that those policies actually started under Obama and Biden, ergo it is illogical to conclude they will end.

        1. I would take your word for it soldiermedic76, but with your history of lying I can’t. Ready to admit you were wrong yet? Or is the Mormon dna you have to strong where you can’t admit you’re wrong?

        2. Looks like you and Chuck have a hicklib twink stalker.

      2. You got your way, sarc – why are you still whining?

    3. Except for when they grabbed the wrong people. You know, the obvious and predictable consequence of the practice. I know you think your beloved government could never make mistakes, but they do.


    1/ Thought experiment: imagine
    were far ahead until huge batches of mail-in votes with ~NO Biden votes from rural counties flipped the election.

    Do you think news organizations wouldn’t send reporters out to knock on doors and ask about how those votes were collected?

    2/ I will tell you with 100 percent certainty: they would. And maybe they’d find nothing at all, or only minor irregularities that didn’t matter (though those would be reported breathlessly).


    1. real investigations need to happen to bring back integrity to the process, no matter the outcome. But even if there is an investigation I believe it will be half hearted if not just bogus in its efforts.


    Why are we surprised that a party that can’t tell the difference between legal and illegal migration would be able to do same when it come to legal and illegal voting?

  45. So, NOW Mini-liz warns us about Biden? Did she even say that in some ways Biden might be worse than Trump?

    Was the TDS vaccine released before the COVID vaccine?

  46. The counting of votes is not complete, so it is premature to declare a winner. And there is on-going litigation that needs resolution. There will be recounts in some states. And there are now disputed ballots in other states. Will it change the results? I don’t know. But I honestly tend to doubt it. To me, we should follow the electoral process through to the end. That end I define as December 4th, one month post-election.

    But imagine the reaction that will occur if it does happen (POTUS Trump found to have won), since the media has declared a winner. I think the behavior of the press has been irresponsible, and that is putting it kindly.

    1. The counting of votes is not complete

      They’re still counting votes the first time, or are you talking about recounts?

    2. Trump was declared the pres-elect around 2 am after Election Day and had a transition team authorized that same day. Same thing with every election (other then 2000) going back 80 years. What makes this different?

      1. You just said it, 2000. The media fully supported Gore tilting at windmills, yet excoriates Trump for not conceding.

        1. Gore was down by 600 votes in one state. Trump is down by tens of thousands of votes in multiple states. Trump lost 2020 worse then Hillary lost 2016. Trump is intentionally sabotaging the transition.

          1. Trump is intentionally sabotaging the transition.

            Surely a Democrat would be open to auditing the ballots in those battleground states to prove everything is on the up-and-up. What do you have to lose by being transparent?

            1. I am fine with election transparency, but don’t hold up the transition process.

              1. Nothing is holding up the transition process. There’s plenty of time between the Electoral College vote and the inauguration to put together a transition team.

                And no, your team is clearly not fine with election transparency.

        2. That because the 2000 election was too close to call. Trump obviously lost and the only people who won’t admit it are fucking stupid! Like your piece of shit Mormon family!

      2. The obvious fraud and collusion of the oligarchs to takeover

  47. > most Americans dwell in online echo chambers.

    I actually browse Reason first. They’re stories are biased of course, biased in the direction of libertarianism, but unlike the Facebook memes the Democrats and Republicans use for their news, Reason at least includes links to their source material. The comment section, not so much.

    I have managed to keep a mostly broad Facebook bubble, with friends from across the spectrum. I only defriend those who are actively antagonist or rude.

    Also browse headlines for interesting stories in other media. Which is bad. I shouldn’t be browsing headlines, because purpose of headlines is to mislead in one way or another.

  48. Jesus Christ, there is all kinds of evidence the election involved massive fraud! Look, all the polls were showing a Blue Tsunami and a blow-out win for Biden. All the major media were claiming the same, everybody knew that there simply weren’t enough white supremacists, racists, Nazis, and retards to give Trump any chance at all of being re-elected. And yet, he came very close to winning re-election and the Democrats actually lost seats in the Congress, the Republicans held all their state houses – what happened? Were all the polls wrong, were all the major media wrong, was everybody fooled into believing things that just weren’t true?

    NO! The obvious answer to how Trump and the GOP did so well contrary to expectations is that the Russians once again hacked our elections! There was massive fraud going on in this election, but it was for Trump, not for Biden! This is the only explanation for what actually happened versus what was predicted to happen!

    But here’s the thing – every major media source is claiming there’s no evidence of fraud when the fraud is so laughably obvious, which can only mean the major media is covering up for the Russians! Every major media figure from Rachel Maddow and Chris Cuomo to Chris Wallace and Anderson Cooper is obviously in the pay of Vladimir Putin when they claim there’s no evidence of fraud when the blatant Russian hacking on behalf of Trump and the GOP is staring them right in the face! It simply defies belief to think that every pollster was wrong, every major media outlet was wrong, everybody in the country was wrong about how this election was going to go and how many white supremacist racist Nazi retards there are in this country.

    We simply must demand that a special prosecutor be appointed to delve into this issue of Russian hacking of our elections, and, more to the point, delve into the issue of why all our major media are not only silent on the issue of Russian hacking but insisting it never happened at all! Wake up, sheeple! The Russians have stolen our elections and the media are complicit in the theft!

    1. “Look, all the polls were showing a Blue Tsunami and a blow-out win for Biden.”

      These here comments are one of the few safe spaces for Trump supporters who like to gang up on anyone who disagrees with them. In the rest of the world Trump supporters are the ones who are attacked, which is why many of those who were polled wouldn’t admit to supporting him.

      1. Or, maybe the methdologies and assumptions used by the media and polling companies are outdated because they’re crippled by their own political biases and sclerotic polling systems. That nearly every single one was off in its predictions by several percentage points doesn’t necessarily indicate a broad swath of “shy Trump voters” not telling pollsters who they planned to vote for.

      2. “…These here comments are one of the few safe spaces for Trump supporters who like to gang up on anyone who disagrees with them…”

        Aw, you pathetic little piece of shit, did someone make fun of your idiocy?
        Fuck off and die.

        1. You’re the one who hangs out in an echo chamber where you constantly attack people who disagree with you, and I’m the pathetic one? Get a grip, dude.

          1. Your primary complaint for at least months has been that this place isn’t an echo chamber where you sit around circle jerking to both sidez

    2. All the major media were claiming the same, everybody knew that there simply weren’t enough white supremacists, racists, Nazis, and retards to give Trump any chance at all of being re-elected.

      They completely underestimated the volume of BBQ, Beer, and Freedom.

  49. “leaving libertarians, once again, with a lot of dread”

    Well, the election, as usual, was a supernova sized repuke of libertarianism according to the metric by which these things are measured. Maybe you’re the problem?

    1. “…Maybe you’re the problem?”

      No, lefty shit, you are.


    Unlike their normal fraud operation (more on that later), this was clumsy and in your face, and we all saw that improbable curve on our screens and went “that just ain’t right.”

    Do I have proof they normally fraud? Well, only my lying eyes, when in 2012 I saw 1/3 of the people coming to vote at the poll I was observing being told they’d already voted, and being told in some Denver precincts that the percentage was 2/3. Must be a lot of amnesia going around, right?

    Now is this general? Well, there is some reason to believe it is. If nothing else, the fact that the right has made a meme out of “beating the margin of fraud.”

    However, the right didn’t want to undermine confidence in our elections, and kept lumping it.

    Until Trump. Trump broke the system by being a totally unexpected win, which the left will never forgive. They thought they had it in the bag.

    1. The problem is because the public, either through apathy or ignorance, the media and within his own party aren’t doing any kind of pressuring to make sure things were clean, it’s up to Trump to exact the kind of assault to match their indifference and then add to it.

      Does he have that kind of loyal support in his inner-circle? Will enough of his supporters who voted for him fight on the ground?


    But these shenanigans are okay with the Establishment. They will tell you they are shocked – shocked! – that anyone might have questions. On the Democrat side, we’re supposed to believe that the same people who created the Russia hoax, who framed General Flynn, and who accused Justice Kavanaugh of being a teen rapist would suddenly draw some sort of line at engaging in electoral shenanigans. The fact is that the Democrats did everything they could to ensure that exactly what happened happened. And the media, even some that was supposed to have our back, insisted we just defer to the protestations of regularity.

  52. Pfizer is an awesome American company! A vaccine that works 80+% of the time? No more need to shut down jack-shit after it gets approved. This is great news for the USA.

    POTUS Trump made a very shrewd call, funding vaccine development up-front as he did. The economy will avoid trillions in losses.

    We can get our old lives back.

    1. Not so fast there buckaroo….

      We haven’t finished moving these goal posts.

      1. they are stuck at 90% until the election is verified.

  53. So how long before Biden – if indeed he gets the nod – embraces AOC’s hit list of Trump supporters? Right about now he’s probably being told by Harris ‘listen buddy don’t you forget who’s pulling you cock’.


    Mussolini was summarily executed, dumped outside a train station, pissed on, and then hung upside down on display from a meat hook, and so I think everyone arguing that the left needs to reach out to the right needs to appreciate just how conciliatory we’re already being.

    1. I don’t think this dumb bitch realizes what happened about 30 years later when the Red Brigades got their shit pushed in by Francesco Cossiga.

      1. She sees it more as the Reds purging the last of the Whites. She has a point. Cossiga was .Gov, and could lean on the US for support.

        Her group runs .Gov now.

    2. Complete submission or chaos. Those are the options.


    Official data is ‘exaggerating’ the risk of Covid and talk of a second wave is ‘misleading’, 500 academics say

    1. There is no Covid threat.

      I just listen to the stupid crap officials say. They’re just babbling.

      I had my suspicions that politicians and public health doctors are in fact retarded but it was confirmed last week when Quebec’s head doctor was perplexed why excess deaths were higher compared to last year.

      This is me staring into the camera with a stoic-sarc face.

      This is how fucken stupid they are. Not a hint of connecting it to lockdowns.


      Unreal how people stick to those stupid things. If you’re still willingly in a mask YOU’RE AN IDIOT.

      1. “If you’re still willingly in a mask YOU’RE AN IDIOT.”

        Or maybe you’re a practical person who doesn’t want to get arrested.

        1. Or that.

          That’s why I said willingly.

      2. So I have an 87 year old uncle. He lives in Florida and is missing half of his teeth but doesn’t want dentures. He lost his wife earlier this year, then took a nasty bill at home and broke his hip. He spent a lot of time on the ground before he got help and developed a case of pneumonia. When he got to the hospital he tested positive for COVID-19 as well and was put into their COVID ward.

        He was released from the hospital on Thursday and has recovered from COVID, though his lungs are still a bit weak from the pneumonia.

        Yes, this is a single anecdotal case, but come on-what’s so scary about a disease that can’t kill a vulnerable octogenarian? There’s been a ton of misinformation turning this disease into a chimeric threat for months and it’s bullshit. People have been afraid to challenge the narrative on it because they don’t want to be accused of wanting to kill their grandmothers. What little bits of contradictory data come out immediately get tagged as misleading or fake news because the narrative is more important than truth.

      3. I wear a mask as a gesture to business owners who request them so that they won’t get shut down/fined.

        I wear a mask nowhere else.

  56. Citing the Washington Post on anything relating to politics is right up there with citing Zero Hedge or Media Matters

    1. Word. So many words and exclamation points.

  57. South Dakota is literally the only state with no form of mask mandate:

    1. Until they feel the Wrath of Biden!

    2. That site is misleading. They list Missouri as having a partial statewide mandate, when in fact there is only ‘encouragement’ on the statewide level. There is no state mandate.

      Local counties and municipalities are free to adopt mandates, and something like 5 of them have – out of 114 – mostly right around St. Louis and KC. Even those are more like ‘strong suggestions’ and only apply to certain situations, and only indoors, etc.

      Hell, this is the article they link to:

  58. GOP, party of the billionaire

    I look forward to working with the new administration and leaders on both sides in Congress on getting the surging pandemic under control, engaging partners around the world on issues like poverty and climate change, and addressing issues of inequality and opportunity at home.


    just reported WH staff are starting to look for jobs. Employers considering them should know there are consequences for hiring anyone who helped Trump attack American values. Find out how at the Trump Accountability Project.


      Is anyone archiving these Trump sycophants for when they try to downplay or deny their complicity in the future? I foresee decent probability of many deleted Tweets, writings, photos in the future

    2. I’ve long thought that this is the main difference between the left and the right:

      R: “Those people should get jobs”
      L: “Those people should not be allowed to have jobs”



    We can’t let the bad actors get away with it.

    1. The problem is that Trump has already tried to declassify some stuff, even before the election, and that was (still is) being slow-walked by bureaucrats. Even if he declassifies everything, it will never see the light of day if Trump doesn’t win.

  61. Joe Biden’s Presidency Is Coming. It Will Be Bad In Predictable Ways.

    And thank God for that – it will be nice to get back to the comfort of politicians being predictably bad rather than unpredictably good or bad. Lord knows we don’t want any change in the way Washington operates if change means things aren’t going to be just the way they’ve always been! It’s nice to know we’re going to get the same old corruption and self-dealing and faux compassion and all the fucked-up, wrong-headed, top-down policies that address problems by making them worse just like we’ve always had instead of something different which may or not be a fucked-up expensive mess that gives more power to exactly the sort of people who should never be let anywhere near power. Hooray for the status quo! Boo for any change!

  62. 39 days is the bar. j’accuse.


    Oh good so we’ll only get a vaccine when Biden takes office and not a minute before because they don’t want to credit Trump for its development.
    Quote Tweet

    Tom Elliott
    · 2h

    @NYGovCuomo says it’s “bad news” Pfizer’s Covid vaccine came during the Trump Admin; says he’s going to work w/ other governors to “stop” distribution “before it does damage”

    1. Why would Trump get any credit? The Pfizer vaccine is a result of private industry, it has nothing to do with Warp Speed or any other government boondoggle.

      1. ask Cuomo.

  64. Has anyone tried to explain yet why the orchestrators of this massive conspiracy only faked presidential votes, and not the congressional votes that appear on the same ballots?

    1. Dems underestimated how many fake votes they needed and had to rush out new ones and got sloppy.

      1. lmao so the answer is no

        1. He just tried to explain it. Asked and answered.

          1. Also opens them up to more parties who would have standing to bring suit

    2. “Has anyone tried to explain yet why the orchestrators of this massive conspiracy only faked presidential votes, and not the congressional votes that appear on the same ballots?”

      Not sure, but have you bothered to explain why your claim has any relevance?
      Thought not…

  65. Want some good news?

    Markets still work the way they always do–punishing stupid behavior the way they should. And is there anything stoopider from a media company’s perspective than insulting the patriotism and intelligence of their customers?

    ESPN is eliminating 500 positions. Yay!

    “The cuts are the latest sign of how ESPN, once one of Disney’s most stable assets, is working to recalibrate its operations as consumers abandon traditional ways of watching TV in favor of streaming video and mobile devices. ESPN has thrived for decades on the outsize fees it gets from cable and satellite distributors who carry its suite of sports networks. But as more fans cut their tether to traditional TV, its linear networks are starting to shed subscribers.”


    What’s happening to ESPN’s cable subscriber base is happening to all the other cable news networks, too–and we should start seeing a lot of changes at cable and broadcast news networks in the coming months because of this.

    The only reason they were able to get away with offending the sensibilities of half their (captive) customers for so long was because those customers were forced to pay for having those news networks in their channel lineup through their cable packages–despite never watching ABC News, CBS News, NBC News, CNN, MSNBC, etc. Now that people are bailing on cable, they’re leaving those news networks behind. You can subscribe to Fox News through an app on your smart TV if you want–and that’s the way the whole channel lineup will go eventually. That’s what they’re doing with ESPN+.

    ESPN is betting all their marbles on cord cutters subscribing to their ESPN+ app, and that means also appealing to people who don’t tune in to hear about the latest quarterback controversy because they want to be force fed BLM politics. The same thing will happen to CNN, MSNBC, and the broadcast networks, too. Some of them may specialize in serving niche progressive markets, but when everybody isn’t forced to pay for the news channels they don’t watch in order to get the ones they want, more and more of those news channels will be forced to compete for the eyeballs on stage right.

    The market for left-wing news is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay oversaturated. We see that in the minuscule numbers your average left wing news program garners, and we see it in the Gallup surveys about who puts how much faith in the news. Last I checked, about 90% of Republicans and two-thirds of Independents had either little or no faith in the news. The ability of the news networks to leave their customers dissatisfied like that is coming to an end.

    1. The ESPN/Disney/Hulu bundle is pretty attractive.

      My biggest complaint with sports on ESPN is that I can’t pause and rewind. When I watch live TV (via antenna) on my Roku TV, it will buffer 90 minutes of content so I can pause and rewind games on Sunday. Monday I’m at the mercy of ESPN’s replays.

      So, meh.

      1. >>I’m at the mercy of ESPN

        just say no.

        1. What Dillinger said. These people detest you and your way of life, and laugh at you for giving them money to watch them run around.

          I loved watching and talking about sports. And then COVID helped me see that I was being a chump.

    2. Want to strike a blow against the horrible left wing shitheads that work at and distribute our news?

      This Christmas, give your grandma and your stubborn parents a Roku player for Christmas–and set it up for them!

      Undermine the propaganda they see.

      I’ve been able to get some of them to make the switch after listening to them complain about having to switch between HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 every time they want to switch between Netflix and their regular cable or complain because they had to switch remotes to do power or volume and change channels. Tell them your Roku player will let them do it all with one remote.

      Woody Guthrie had the phrase, “This Machine Kills Fascists” put on his guitar. They could write the same thing on Roku players.

      1. $500 got me a 4k (CHINESE!) Roku TV that looks pretty damned good and integrates pretty much everything into a single remote.

        I do need to pick up the DVD remote if I ever use it, but I can select inputs with the Roku interface.

        Grandma won’t switch because old people reasons.

        1. Tell her she can do it all with one remote, and give her one for Christmas. I had an old timer who refused to learn how to use a mouse for years. He took to Roku like a fish to water.

          1. Well, a mouse is a gateway tech…

    3. ESPN is betting all their marbles on cord cutters subscribing to their ESPN+ app, and that means also appealing to people who don’t tune in to hear about the latest quarterback controversy because they want to be force fed BLM politics.

      That’s a losing bet, to be honest. I looked at the content on ESPN+ a few months ago, and there’s nothing in there that would justify the subscription. Even NFL Game Pass offers more content for the buck, as long as you’re okay with watching the reruns of the games.

      1. The ESPN+ they’ll be rolling out shortly is a very different experience compared to what they have now. It will include everything you get in having ESPN on cable–only even more than that, too.

        They’re making ESPN available to people who aren’t on cable anymore with the ESPN+–that hasn’t come out yet.

        Like HBO has been available for streamers since forever–but HBOMax is a totally new experience. That’s what they’ll be doing with ESPN+. Eventually, their live cable offering will be just one part of ESPN+–for people who only use cable for internet access.

        1. ESPN+ subscription gives me full access to ESPN programming without having a cable subscription.

          Again, I only have it because it’s “Free” with purchase of Disney and Hulu.

          1. “ESPN+ does not include access to the full ESPN linear channels, as they continue to only be available through “traditional or non-traditional” television providers. Thus, ESPN’s major professional sports rights, including National Football League, National Basketball Association, and Major League Baseball coverage, are not included in the service.[6][5]”


            What I’m trying to tell you is that the ESPN+ you have now will change in the next few months. It will become a full-fledged replacement for ESPN on cable. They’re moving it all–lock, stock, and barrel, to ESPN+. You won’t need cable to get ESPN anymore if you subscribe to ESPN+. People who don’t have cable will be able to subscribe to ESPN+, and they will get the full ESPN live video of ESPN, ESPN2, ESPN3, etc., etc. Their NFL games. Everything.

    4. What will kill ESPN, and any other provider who wants to mix politics with sports, is direct access from the producer, e.g. pro league. Reduce the separation between producer and customer, and the latter can see (and decide) on content options.

      Death to networks! (and political parties)

      1. There is a problem with live sports still being extremely lucrative because of the supply and demand problem with broadcast media. The only premium product the broadcast networks have to offer advertisers is live sports–so the broadcasters are increasingly willing to pay more and more for the contracts. Advertisers know you’re sitting there watching live sports live, and they like the demographics who are watching.

        The good news is that you can watch broadcast football games through a Roku app for free with an antenna that plugs into your WiFi , and then you don’t have to pay the cable company to watch live broadcast games anymore. They have to broadcast for free as a condition of using free spectrum. If you want to watch out of market games for a specific team, NFL Sunday Ticket, NHL Center Ice, MLBtv etc. will sell you that for a fraction of what you’re paying to watch it on cable–but they won’t let you see local games over those services because the contracts the broadcasters are willing to pay is still extremely lucrative. When the broadcasters can no longer pay the NFL, or whomever, what the NFL can make selling their games directly to fans through the Sunday Ticket app, for instance, the NFL will sell packages straight to consumers.

        They’re basically cutting out the middle man–in terms of cable. But the networks keep upping how much they’re willing to pay for live sports content because it’s the only thing they have that’s competitive with targeted advertising.

        That doesn’t mean broadcast news won’t be hurt by this. The profit margin of the local broadcast networks is smaller than the amount of money they force your cable company to pay them in carry fees for carrying their station on your cable lineup. When we cut the cord and start looking at it with an antenna (or with the Locast app), all that money disappears. As that cable subscriber revenue dries up, they’ll have no choice but to aim their programming at a wider audience–including Republicans.

        We should note that this is all a function of rent seeking. Originally, the Republicans back in the 90s were afraid that liberals like Ted Turner would refuse to carry the newly formed Fox Network local broadcasts–because Fox was conservative. That would mean there were no conservative voice on television for cable subscribers, or so they thought. So, they passed a law that requires cable companies to carry the local broadcasters’ signals whether the cable company wants to or not.

        That’s why the major broadcasters, like Disney, bought up their independently owned affiliates in densely populated markets and started downgrading the power of their broadcasts–so that consumers would be forced to pay for cable if they wanted to watch their favorite sports teams. That became the profit portion of the broadcast business–those carry fees that the cable companies were forced to buy.

        Streaming destroys that rent seeking model. Millions of people are cutting the cord every quarter, and it accelerates dramatically around Christmas when people are getting new TVs.

        ESPN will need to change in order to be competitive in a direct subscriber market. If the only people who were paying for ESPN (or CNN or MSNBC) were the people who were willing to pay to watch those low rated shows, they wouldn’t be able to continue as they are. They’d have to find a way to make themselves attractive to people who think disrespecting the national anthem is a shitty thing to do.

  66. It’s a shame to see all the hate for libertarians on a libertarian website, from both the writers and the commenters.

  67. The argument seems to be that there is hard data/analysis that can demonstrate significant voter fraud or irregularities that Trump can use to demand a recount. This recount, if performed correctly, would lead to Trump winning.

    Is Trump’s team not competent enough to follow through on this? And if not, should he really be president?

  68. Two observations:

    1) For those who say that not voting is a principled choice, a vote against all of the candidates, this election has proven you wrong. If you don’t vote, Democrats will vote for you.

    2) Trump isn’t the first Republican to get shafted by voter fraud, but he is probably the first Republican to fight back against it. If he succeeds, his legal team’s strategy will become the blueprint for future Republican candidates in similar situations.

    1. The big concern here is what this might mean in terms of voter reform. Like I said above, over 70 million voters, and their supporters, are going to feel like they got robbed regardless of the outcome.

      If Trump wins, does this lead to Republican efforts to implement a national ID-card type of system for the purpose of verifying votes, that would be just as intrusive as any NSA database?

      If Biden wins, do the Democrats establish mail-in voting as the SOP for their counties, resulting non-Democrat counties feeling completely disenfranchised because the machine can just print out however many ballots are needed to push their guy over the top?

  69. Libertarians keep being told to bend the knee to the Republicans.
    Doesn’t that work two ways? Many Republican poobahs treated Ron Paul (and Rand Paul and Amash and Massie) like dog crap on their shoe. NBC’s analyst, Chuck Todd, immediately credited Biden’s win to about 2 million Gary Johnson voters who returned to the Democratic fold in 2020. Analysts in the Phila. suburbs think that more than 100,000 registered Republicans who voted for Trump in 2016 abandoned him. You want Libertarians to vote GOP? Then appeal to them. If you want more Republicans to vote Republican then stop putting up candidates who are demonstrably crass, undignified, and unable to articulate why one’s policies are best for America. [There are dozens of local and state Republicans better informed, better prepared, and more articulate than the former President.]

    1. Great comments. Truth is that the RINOs did not leave the Republican party, the RINOs are all that is left of the Republican party.

    2. Chuck Todd knows.

    3. Or you can just fuck right off and continue being props for the totalitarian left?
      Enjoy your rulers.

      1. Meh. The primary victims of the Left are the left’s voters.

    4. I’m going to keep pointing this out until it sinks in–the Republicans have had far more success appealing to populism since 2006 than neocon globalism. Why would they suddenly go back to being controlled opposition and “losing with dignity” when they’ve had far more wins than losses by not rolling over and chasing asspats from the media?

      The only reason the NeverTrumpers in the GOP started pimping for Democrats wasn’t because of Trump’s crass attitude, it was because his campaign was a rebuke of their political agenda.

    5. unable to articulate why one’s policies are best for America

      The best policy is obviously trunalimunumaprzure.

    6. Libertarians keep being told to bend the knee to the Republicans.

      Big-L Libertarians can go eff themselves; they are too dumb to even bother with.

      Little-l libertarians (people who believe in free markets and individual liberties) should make rational choices during elections, which is to vote in a way that maximizes liberty.

      Many Republican poobahs treated Ron Paul (and Rand Paul and Amash and Massie) like dog crap on their shoe.

      I admire Ron Paul, but he didn’t have a realistic chance at the presidency and he would have been a spoiler.

      Amash, on the other hand, is just a p.o.s.

  70. Meet the Atlanta sex toy magnate who can’t stop picking fights.

    Anyone else picture a couple of hos smacking each other around with dildos?

    1. Daily. Why?


    Wait, the vaccine was known to be successful weeks ago?? Fauci, Biden, media mocked Trump at this time for saying vaccine was close. The Oct announcement just happened to be delayed AFTER the election? We need answers from corporate & government officials.


      Biden health advisers reportedly met with COVID-19 vaccine makers in September and October. Don’t forget that Biden’s son-in-law runs a health care VC and is on Biden’s coronavirus advisory team. Boy, this stinks:


    Gov. Cuomo says politicians will take ‘different tone’ on COVID-19 after Trump loss

    1. They’ll party in the streets while shutting down small businesses, churches, and synagogues.

      1. I wish this was hyperbole…

  73. I don’t know if Biden/Harris will be as bad as ENB envisions, but I know that people want solutions and if Libertarian don’t offer them, then they will look to government.

    I also question some of the concerns. Unions are an important part of a capitalist economic system. When you have unions working with employers there is less need for government to protect the workers. Unions are vital to a middleclass centric capitalist economy. And a strong middle class is best for a healthy democracy. Yes, some union have proven to be problems, but the answer may not be less unions, but more. Get the few remaining union out of a bunker mentality. Unions can bargain for better wages offsetting calls for a government set minimum wage. Unions should not be viewed as a problem but as a solution.

    1. Nobody here is buying what you’re selling. And unions are corrupt and politically motivated and in collusion with democrats. So no thank you.

      This is the problem. 19th and 20th century solutions that are proven failures being applied in the 21st century.

    2. “I don’t know if Biden/Harris will be as bad as ENB envisions, but I know that people want solutions and if Libertarian don’t offer them, then they will look to government…”

      Yeah, people have to be handed solutions! It’s not possible to develop them otherwise!
      You claim to be older than an adolescent, but if so, you’re 15-going-on-X.
      Grow up.

    3. people want solutions

      From others, preferably with others’ money too.

      if Libertarian don’t offer them, then they will look to government

      You think people are looking to the LP or libertarians for solutions at all much less before they look to government?

    4. I don’t know if Biden/Harris will be as bad as ENB envisions, but I know that people want solutions and if Libertarian don’t offer them, then they will look to government.

      If you think that “Libertarian” (people? party?) has solutions, you don’t understand libertarianism.

      I also question some of the concerns. Unions are an important part of a capitalist economic system. When you have unions working with employers there is less need for government to protect the workers. Unions are vital to a middleclass centric capitalist economy.

      Yes, voluntary private sector unions are a good thing, but the US doesn’t have “unions” in that sense.

      The US has government created labor cartels with mandatory membership. On top of that, it has a political lobbying organizations for public sector employees. Both of those are destructive of the middle class and destructive of free markets.

  74. It’s bad enough Biden will be pulling out of the “treaty” with the Taliban and re-igniting the war in Afghanistan (and bad enough that Trump has let his generals slow-walk the troop withdrawal so that, despite his express wishes, the generals have been blatantly insubordinate and refused to end the war) and bad enough that Biden will be cutting aid to Israel and re-supplying the Palestinians to set off a new round of terrorism in the Middle East (plus of course ending America’s energy independence so that it once again makes the Middle East of strategic importance when we just have managed to get to the point where we no longer had to give a fuck about what the towel-headed goat-herders were getting up to) but much worse than that is when Biden responds to the Chinese aggression in the South China Sea by offering to suck their dicks for them.

    China is asserting all the islands in the South China Sea belong to them and they’re building up a navy to secure them. Once they do that, they can effectively blockade Taiwan and threaten trade with Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, the Philippines, even Indonesia and Australia. This is China’s long-term goal, to control all of Southeast Asia, and Joe Biden is going to help them lest he “provoke” China by being “confrontational” with them. If all those Southeast Asian countries were smart, they’d better be cutting ties to the US and jumping on the China bandwagon and they’d better be doing it fast because Joe’s selling them down the river.

    1. So has the Biden campaign sent JoJo flowers and chocolates yet for helping him win, or at least offered to have Biden grab her p___?

  75. Joe Biden becomes the first person since 1960 to win the presidency without carrying Ohio, which held the longest active winning streak of any state.

    Which makes me thing we need to scrutinze this count very carefully.

    1. Wasn’t voter fraud also a major component of Kennedy’s win in 1960?

      1. Helped very much by the Chicago Mob. Which made his and RFK’s public campaign against the Mob afterwards, really hilarious. You knew I was a scorpion…

        If also giving credence to the idea they helped have him killed. It would be interesting to learn if Marcello and Trafficante were ever wiretapped, and their organizations penetrated, to the degree the Families in New York eventually were. And if so, where those transcripts went.


    New York, totally Democratic, had no problem counting its votes.

    Texas, totally Republican, had no problem counting its votes.

    It was the same story in every deep Red or Deep Blue state, regardless of size.

    The only states that couldn’t seem to count their ballots on time, the only states where the allegedly dead rise to vote, the only states where turnout in places apparently exceeded the number of registered voters, the only states reported by whistleblowers for ignoring their own laws on accepting mail-in ballots, the only states that keep finding substantial numbers of new ballots, the only states with reports of substantial numbers of destroyed or lost ballots, the only states where we see reports of thousands upon thousands of ballots that are marked only for Joe Biden and no other candidates in any other race…

    …all of these things are happening only in states where the outcome was ever in doubt.

    And — oh, yeah, this last bit seems germane — all these antics seem to be happening only in Democrat-run cities in these swing states.

    1. Arizona and Georgia are usually red states.

      1. Trump was a dick to McCain. That was an unforced error.

        Georgia has a lightweight Senator who bought her seat and said some inflammatory things about BLM. I don’t think that helped.

        1. Trump was a dick to McCain. That was an unforced error.

          “Dick” implies that he didn’t deserve it. McCain was an arrogant, evil, selfish man. Maybe it was unwise to attack him, but McCain deserved it.

  77. i>But with the election called on Saturday for Biden and his running mate, Sen. Kamala Harris

    Has Congress called the election?

  78. My modest proposal for how the LP goes forward.
    First work at state levels to implement ranked choice and none of the above.
    Second: work less on running candidates and more on influencing candidates of major parties.
    At the primary level, rank and endorse candidates based upon libertarian principles for both parties.
    At the general level, play king maker, e.g. rank and endorse the most libertarian candidate (I know king maker will raise hackles but just using a common phrase).
    Third: work at state level for offices.
    Fourth: use the ballot initiative policies to get libertarian laws passed.
    Fifth: focus on voter education material on ballot initiatives and lower state offices.

    1. All good suggestions.

    2. First work at state levels to implement ranked choice and none of the above.

      That creates more political extremism and division.

      At the primary level, rank and endorse candidates based upon libertarian principles for both parties. At the general level, play king maker, e.g. rank and endorse the most libertarian candidate (I know king maker will raise hackles but just using a common phrase).

      Why would anybody care who the LP endorses?

      My modest proposal for how the LP goes forward.

      My modest proposal, for the good of libertarians everywhere and the good of the country, would be: dissolve.

  79. Republicans should put as much resources into investigating these Dominion machines as they can. Over the weekend I read that Texas was supposed to have these machines too, but rejected them over security/vulnerability concerns. Remember how the left was saying they were going to turn the state? Coincidence?

    I would be interested in seeing a list of all the states the machines were used. Then seeing the breakdown of those states by election result. Just out of curiosity

  80. I can understand voting for Biden if your voting philosophy is “lesser of two evils” and that is how you view Biden. I cannot understand by the people that support and are excited about Biden. These people frightening (not to mention hypocrites).

    1. They are excited about Kamala, not Biden, and are already talking about how soon before he steps down so we have the first woman president (even better- a woman of color!). This is what it’s always been about

      1. She is the worst option of all the viable candidates across both major parties. It makes me sick to my stomach thinking of her being president of the country.

  81. For a few beautiful days last week, Americans could bask in the knowledge that President Donald Trump was likely on his way out

    By “Americans”, she means those that read the opinion pages on WaPost and NYT.

    1. couldn’t tell whether “Americans” expanded past her arm. was a weird sentence

      1. By “Americans” she could mean Phillip and Elizabeth Jennings, because of all the Russian interference.

  82. i can’t wit until Trump’s impact finally fades and every discussion is not flooded with Trump apologists and lie repeaters. i understand this will linger at least a couple months because they are worshiping an idol who refuses to take the loss gracefully…… but it would be really nice to see the world return to rational thought having more prevalence than stupidity and anger.

    1. Keep waiting

      1. you do realize, i said i wanted to have rational thought instead of angry and stupid, right? when i say I’m sick of stupid and angry, i mean all of it. the ones who are screaming because they hate trump and the ones screaming because they love him. the way to make both go away is to make trump go away. scuttle away to your back to your respective holes, and let the grown ups do most of the talking again.

        1. you do realize, i said i wanted to have [a] rational thought instead of angry and stupid, right?

          Yes, and you’re obviously not achieving it. At all.

        2. “you do realize, i said i wanted to have rational thought instead of angry and stupid, right?..”

          In which case, you might give at least a token effort toward rationality, but then fucking TDS-infected lefty shits aren’t really equipped for that.

    2. you might want to avoid the internets.

    3. “…i can’t wit until Trump’s impact finally fades and every discussion is not flooded with Trump apologists and lie repeaters…”

      I can’t wait until lefty shits with TDS die slow, painful deaths.

  83. It’s the ways the Biden administration will be unpredictably bad that worries me.

  84. the Biden team lists four priorities:

    COVID-19: it will likely run its course with declining fatality rates, or a vaccine will show up. the economic damage from the lockdowns is already done and hopefully won’t be repeated. as long as the Biden/Harris plan is just more ineffective mask mandates, we’re good.

    economic recovery: Congress and the Fed can have an impact here, but the cure (trillions in new debt, more market distortions and below market interest rates) are worse than the letting the disease (economic contraction caused by COVID lockdowns) sort itself out

    racial equity: notice it’s “equity” and not “equality”…. which means more money wasted, with counter-productive results (increasing racial animosity instead of letting society outgrow it)

    and climate change: uh-oh… Biden/Harris want to spend several trillion dollars of future taxpayer money on totally ineffective feel good projects. hopefully Congress keeps the total spending level at a modest level (not likely). hopefully they don’t ban effective energy sources or burden them with expensive new regulations. expect zero change in temperature.

  85. “It’s going to be…well, basically, the Obama years all over again.”

    Not even close. First term Obama would be a Republican now. He would have been laughed out of the woke socialist primary.

    1. He’s still black, I don’t think he’d be openly mocked. Quietly shunted into a dead-end role within the party sounds more appropriate.

      1. Flagged CE’s comment above by mistake, my apologies.

      2. Only a few years ago there were discussions of JFK being considered a republican today. And I agree that as we speak, first term Obama would be a republican now. At the rate our country’s going, Mitt and Jeb! will be arguing about who’s got the better Universal Basic Income plan in the next primary.

      3. Cis straight male who publicly eschewed gay marriage in favor of civil unions, tsk tsk. I don’t think they’d consider him an ‘authentic black voice’ now.

      4. He’s still black, I don’t think he’d be openly mocked.

        “Skinfolk, not kinfolk!” “Uncle Tom!”

  86. Build Back Better looks and sounds exactly like New World Order

  87. Blah blah blah- better than a fascist and that’s all that really matters.

  88. A red state that just elected two blue Senators in the last two years or so, and where Trump won in ’16 by only 3.5 points Arizona isn’t red anymore.

    Georgia has spent the last five years trying to get Hollywood to move East, and they’ve succeeded in large part. Don’t be surprised to see one or both of those Senate seats go blue too. From +5 Trump in ’16, to God only knows what this year.

    A similar thing will happen in Texas. From +9 in ’16, to +5.8 in ’20 Do not be surprised to see Texas vote blue in 2028. It may even happen in 2024.

    1. People from San Francisco and Seattle want to do for the big cities in red states what they have done for their own home towns.

  89. Limited government and individual liberty, meaning the world’s highest per capita imprisonment rate, due to locking black Americans up at 100 times the world average imprisonment rate.

    1. Limited government and individual liberty, A hundred years of progressive government, meaning the world’s highest per capita imprisonment rate, due to locking black Americans up at 100 times the world average imprisonment rate.


      Conservatives and libertarians wouldn’t lock people up for drug use, we’d let them die in the streets or (worse, according to people like you) have them taken care of by Christian charities

  90. Libertarians who were less than 100 percent psyched about a Trump win this year have been taking gruff from some right-of-center types, who suggest anyone who didn’t help secure Trump a second term must intrinsically support Biden, or at least has no right to complain about anything Biden does.

    Stop the weasel words. Nobody is 100 percent psyched about Trump.

    You made your choice to prefer a senile sock puppet and his nasty racist sidekick to a bloviating and uncouth small government guy. That’s a political choice you made. It’s a choice that makes you authoritarian, not libertarian.

    At least have the decency to own up to your choice.

    1. “Nobody is 100 percent psyched about Trump.”

      Allow me to introduce you to loveconstitution1789.

    2. You are trying to get away with calling Trump a “small government guy”.

      1. You are trying top get away with calling him a ‘big government guy’ in comparison to his opponents.
        You lose.

  91. Everyone acts all apocalyptic about a coming federal mask mandate. While I agree that it is an overeach of federal power, really matter? Does anyone not live in a city that already has a mask mandate?

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  93. Re: staff…you certainly don’t have to vote for Trump, but legitimately held Libertarian beliefs do however preclude a vote for Biden.

  94. The Biden administration will be bad in predictable ways. True.

    The Trump administration was bad in new and unpredictable horrible ways.

    I’ll take Biden in that case.

    1. “…The Trump administration was bad in new and unpredictable horrible ways…”

      Your TDS ate your cites, lefty shit.

  95. Trump’s corruption was, like him, petty and small and pathetic. Inexcusable but small time grifter stuff.
    The Biden corruption will be done to save America, to help the country. As the saying goes, the desire to save the world is often a cover for those who wish to rule it. Too many liberals wish to rule America and not just save it. That’s always been the problem.
    And our media will now have a dilemma: they abandoned their principles of objectivity and fairness and balance, tore down the church/state wall between opinion and fact; and worked to remove Trump. Now they have to ask the question of whether they wish to return to some standards of professional journalism or abandon all of this in favor of an openly partisan press.

  96. Things are going to get worse regardless of who is in the White House. Divine intervention probably wouldn’t help us now. We are a nation in protracted decline. If only the end game were gradual. It won’t be. More like falling off a cliff. It isn’t the fall that kills you. It’s the sudden stop.

  97. Libertarians have no grounds on which to complain about big, intrusive govt.

    In 2016, the Libertarian Party ran Gary Johnson, who believed that a vital purpose of govt — a reason to use deadly force — was to force people to bake cakes for reasons with which they disagreed.

    No part that runs Gary Johnson can possibly claim to be small govt or in favor of liberty.

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  99. COVID served at twofold purpose, to get Trump kicked out of office, and to obscure the fact that Joe Biden is too frail, mentally and physically, for POTUS. After being sworn into office, reality will set in, and the new Administration will be run by Pelosi, Harris, Hillary, and other leading democrats. Biden will be largely a ceremonial figurehead while he lasts. The conservative, small government, liberty movement would be better off choosing a successor to Trump

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