Libertarian Party

What's Next for the Libertarian Party After Jo Jorgensen Got 1%?

What went right and wrong in 2020, the L.P.’s internal divisions, and the party’s strategy for the future.


The 2020 presidential election gave libertarian voters few good options: A serially dishonest and incompetent leader who bungled the COVID-19 pandemic and imposed trade and immigration restrictions versus someone who promised $11 trillion in new spending, who played a role in many of the greatest policy failures of the last 30 years, such as the Iraq War, the PATRIOT Act, and the expansion of the drug war.

And then there was the Libertarian Party (L.P.). After nominating a pair of popular former governors to run in 2016 who pulled just over 3 percent of the popular vote, the party backed Jo Jorgensen, a Clemson University psychology lecturer who was featured on the L.P. ticket in the 1990s but remains largely unknown outside of libertarian circles. She drew just over 1 percent.

So is the party still a worthwhile project?

Reason spoke to several party insiders about what they think went right and wrong in 2020, the L.P.'s internal divisions, and the party's strategy for the future.

"You had something in the Jorgensen-Cohen ticket that appealed to anybody, no matter where you were in the party," says Alex Merced, the L.P.'s former vice chair.

He thinks that even though Jorgensen fell short of 2016 L.P. presidential candidate Gary Johnson's vote share, the unifying effect it had among libertarians was positive for the movement. 

"I think that when you try to water down your messaging to appeal to everyone, you sort of appeal to no one," says Angela McArdle, who is chair of the Los Angeles Libertarian Party and who plans to run for chair of the national party in 2022.

She's affiliated with the Mises Caucus, which believes libertarians have been far too willing to compromise their principles and water down their rhetoric to make alliances with the political left or right. They reject the "need to make Faustian bargains" in the interest of gaining mainstream acceptance.

While she criticizes aspects of the Jorgensen campaign, McArdle thinks it began the necessary process of recalibrating the party, which she says should be less Gary Johnson and more Ron Paul.

"When you look at the general composition of the liberty movement⁠—not just the Libertarian Party⁠—it looks a lot more like Ron Paul than it does Gary Johnson. And I don't know a lot of libertarians who tell me that they were inspired by Gary Johnson," says McArdle, who believes the best use of the national party is to inspire activists to get involved with the state and local parties, where candidates have a better shot of actually winning.

The L.P. does currently hold more than 200 elected seats, mostly local positions like treasurer, city council member, school board member, or small-town mayor, according to its website. The most powerful members of the party holding office are Jeff Hewitt, Riverside County supervisor, who ran in a nonpartisan race, and Rep. Justin Amash (L–Mich.), who wasn't elected as a Libertarian but switched party affiliations. But Amash opted not to run for reelection in 2020.

In the most recent election, the party has secured 11 electoral victories so far. The highest office won by a L.P. candidate in 2020 was secured by Marshall Burt, who will join the Wyoming state House in January.

Current L.P. Chair Joe Bishop-Henchman agrees with McArdle that electoral success begins at the local level.

"Just imagine how different the national political discussion would be if there was a caucus of…eight or 10 or 12 Libertarian senators who could really be significantly changing what's happening in Washington, D.C.," says Bishop-Henchman. "So how do you get to that? Well, we've got to elect more Libertarian House members…build up a deep bench of elected officials at the state and local level…And so how do we get there? Well, it's building up the infrastructure of the party. So we have people who know how to elect and reelect people." 

He says that while Jorgensen did worse than Johnson in 2016, the party has grown its registration roll significantly, which is now at a record 650,000 members.

"We've got lots of market liberals who are fed up with the AOC direction of the Democratic party…And we've got a lot of small-government conservatives who are fed up with the anti-trade, anti-immigration Trump direction of that party. So there's a lot of people who are politically homeless right now," says Bishop-Henchman.

But for members of the Mises Caucus like McArdle, the more effective strategy is to lean into radicalism even if it means potentially alienating centrists.

"We need someone at the front of the national party who is not afraid to talk about issues that are controversial. We need someone who is going to make libertarian statements and not worry about offending the left, because why do we waste our time pandering and begging for votes from a group of people who ultimately aren't going to like us?" says McArdle. 

For instance, McArdle believes the party should've differentiated itself from Democrats and Republicans by taking a stronger stance against COVID-19 lockdowns and holding an in-person convention.

Several Libertarians, including McArdle, also criticized the Jorgensen campaign's adoption of Black Lives Matter rhetoric in a tweet telling her followers it's not enough to be not racist but rather one must be actively anti-racist.

"The Libertarian Party doesn't necessarily need to be anti-P.C. It needs to disregard P.C. politics," says McArdle. "If there's a situation that comes up that we could talk about the value of individual black lives, we should absolutely do it. It doesn't mean that we need to co-opt their language and be afraid of offending them. When we talk about the ramifications of the drug war, we can just speak the truth because that's what we should be doing."

Bishop-Henchman disagrees with the notion that the Libertarian Party has ever had a problem speaking unpopular truths.

"We've never really pulled our punches," says Bishop-Henchman, pointing out that the party favored marijuana legalization, marriage equality, and abolishing the draft long before any of those were popular positions. "Almost any libertarian would be considered politically radical by the conventional definition of the terms." 

For Bishop-Henchman, the focus of the next four years is getting L.P. candidates elected at the state and local level.

"It's time that we get out of startup mode, and that we prove that we can do it," says Bishop-Henchman. 

CORRECTION: The video mistakenly identifies the Lions of Liberty podcast, "Should The Libertarian Party Be Abolished?" as episode 408. It's actually episode 480.

Produced by Zach Weissmueller. 

Photo credits: K.C. Alfred/TNS/Newscom; Tom Williams/CQ Roll Call/Newscom; Paul Hennessy / SOPA Images/Sipa/Newscom.

Music credits: Muted. 

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  1. Reality is, until the party decides to actually build a grassroots and actuially get people into the governor’s mansions and the state legislatures, it is going to remain a non-entity forever. And they are OK with that.

    1. +

      We have two solid libertarians (one big “L”, the other a small “L”) in our county. It is the way to do it. As likely as not, your future congressperson is serving on a school board, as a treasurer, etc, of your city or county. In ten years, or maybe less, they will be running for State or National office. The Libertarian Party needs think much longer term than the next election cycle. They need to think about ten or twenty years down the line. They need to think, and act, more grassroots. And if this means endorsing libertarian-leaning politicians, go for it.

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      2. A serially dishonest and incompetent leader who bungled the COVID-19 pandemic…

        Actually, he was probably the most honest president in centuries:

        How was he incompetent??? Your premise is leftist garbage, and screams not of libertarianism, but of leftist shit. He didn’t get us into any wars. He removed the shitty healthcare mandate. He passed a broad tax cut. And you guys call yourself “libertarian’s.” It’s absolutely ridiculous.

        Now – to the COVID statement. Precisely how did he “bungle” COVID. What would you fake libertarian’s want him to do? Issue broad mask mandates? Lock downs in your house? Again, you guys are fake libertarian leftists.

        1. That’s the thing. I’m just glad for the past 4 years in the USA, which was probably better than I deserved. We got a lot of what we wanted and many of us didn’t even recognize it when we got it, because it didn’t come packaged the way they expected it. We got the most libertarian president of my lifetime, and many of us didn’t even lift a finger for it. “Official libertarians” and even “official conservatives” — i.e. those who make a big deal about it as part of their lives — actively opposed it when it came!

          1. Why the obvious sockpuppet SQRLSY

        2. A few are fake libertarian leftists, but most are fakers in a more fundamental way: pretending to want progress, but criticizing any progress when it actually comes because they weren’t in charge, it wasn’t their idea. They’re as phony as Biden, who are totally bluffing when they say the would’ve handled the virus better — pretending to be magic because nobody can ever prove otherwise. Too bad King Canute isn’t here to put them in their place.

          1. Why the obvious sockpuppet again SQRLSY?

          2. For as much talk of “principles” as there is, it seems many are more devoted to their “both sides” bitching than they are to their nominal philosophy.

        3. Go cry more, bitch.

        4. Trump lost. One term and done. Your tears are delicious!

        5. Agree. The author lost any credibility with me very early by labeling Trump “incompetent”, while Biden has trouble remembering to put on a fresh pair of Depends in the morning. Pure leftist BS.

      3. What's Next for the Libertarian Party After Jo Jorgensen Got 1%?

        Nobody gives shit. The primaries for the libertarian party are like the oscars. Libertarians celebrating themselves. Nobody. Nobody ... at all.. gives a shit, except libertarians, literally celebrating themselves.

        Now that the above is said, the libertarian leftists here at reason can go back kissing their own asses, after voting for the presidential socialist of the united states, and his affirmative action VP, whose only electoral qualities are things she was born with that took no effort to achieve, all while bashing the current administration that promoted more freedom than any past administration in decades.

        1. Ok you HAVE to share how you made that so obnoxious

          1. never mind thank you!

        2. If this works I think I am not using this website anymore.

          1. Uhm, well… could we assume that reason would care if they were a digital brothel? How libertarian is this website about the possibility to spread malware or tamper with code?

            1. No Gods, no Masters.

              I’m sure they’re hiring if you want to be their IT guy.

              1. They’re never going to hire an IT guy. He might install an edit button.

        3. Libertarianism is just selfishness elevated to political ideology You can support personal autonomy over your own body and the right to free expression without denying our responsibilities to one another and collectively to humanity Too many Libertarians are just overprivileged entitled babies who don’t want to share What happens to any one of us affects all of us And the weakest among us may well hold the key to our survival

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    2. I’m probably not voting LP until the Democrat Party is destroyed.

      Libertarians have some issue differences with Republicans but we have nothing in common with Democrats.

      It’s why the Georgia US Senate special election for Loeffler will not go Democrat. All the Democrats that could vote voted for Democrats candidates for US Senate and President and lost in Georgia.

      1. Don’t be surprised if a lot of walking around money starts to find its way into the pockets of Chicagoans and Milwaukee residents to go and stay with their cousins in Atlanta for a couple of months.

        1. Luckily, for the January 5, 2021 Runoff Election, Georgians must be registered by Dec 7, 2020.

          By Dec 14, 2020 Trump vs Biden win for Trump will have Lefties rioting in the streets, so they forget all about the Georgia Runoff.

          Georgia Code prevents transients from trying to carpetbag to vote. They are NOT considered residents of their County.
          § 21-2-217. Rules for determining residence
          (a) In determining the residence of a person desiring to register to vote or to qualify to run for elective office, the following rules shall be followed so far as they are applicable:
          (1) The residence of any person shall be held to be in that place in which such person’s habitation is fixed, without any present intention of removing therefrom;
          (2) A person shall not be considered to have lost such person’s residence who leaves such person’s home and goes into another state or county or municipality in this state, for temporary purposes only, with the intention of returning, unless such person shall register to vote or perform other acts indicating a desire to change such person’s citizenship and residence;
          (3) A person shall not be considered to have gained a residence in any county or municipality of this state into which such person has come for temporary purposes only without the intention of making such county or municipality such person’s permanent place of abode;
          (4) If a person removes to another state with the intention of making it such person’s residence, such person shall be considered to have lost such person’s residence in this state;
          (4.1) If a person removes to another county or municipality in this state with the intention of making it such person’s residence, such person shall be considered to have lost such person’s residence in the former county or municipality in this state;
          (5) If a person removes to another state with the intention of remaining there an indefinite time and making such state such person’s place of residence, such person shall be considered to have lost such person’s residence in this state, notwithstanding that such person may intend to return at some indefinite future period;
          (6) If a person removes to another county or municipality within this state with the intention of remaining there an indefinite time and making such other county or municipality such person’s place of residence, such person shall be considered to have lost such person’s residence in the former county or municipality, notwithstanding that such person may intend to return at some indefinite future period;
          (7) The residence for voting purposes of a person shall not be required to be the same as the residence for voting purposes of his or her spouse;
          (8) No person shall be deemed to have gained or lost a residence by reason of such person’s presence or absence while enrolled as a student at any college, university, or other institution of learning in this state;
          (9) The mere intention to acquire a new residence, without the fact of removal, shall avail nothing; neither shall the fact of removal without the intention;
          (10) No member of the armed forces of the United States shall be deemed to have acquired a residence in this state by reason of being stationed on duty in this state;
          (11) If a person removes to the District of Columbia or other federal territory, another state, or foreign country to engage in government service, such person shall not be considered to have lost such person’s residence in this state during the period of such service; and the place where the person resided at the time of such person’s removal shall be considered and held to be such person’s place of residence;
          (12) If a person is adjudged mentally ill and is committed to an institution for the mentally ill, such person shall not be considered to have gained a residence in the county in which the institution to which such person is committed is located;
          (13) If a person goes into another state and while there exercises the right of a citizen by voting, such person shall be considered to have lost such person’s residence in this state;
          (14) The specific address in the county or municipality in which a person has declared a homestead exemption, if a homestead exemption has been claimed, shall be deemed the person’s residence address; and
          (15) For voter registration purposes, the board of registrars and, for candidacy residency purposes, the Secretary of State, election superintendent, or hearing officer may consider evidence of where the person receives significant mail such as personal bills and any other evidence that indicates where the person resides.

          1. That mentally ill clause ought to rule out the communist anarchist Beethead running for veep and dragging down Jo’s campaign.

          2. Trump lost. Continue to cry, lovedicks1789.

      2. I think we have plenty in common with plenty of Democrats, because a lot of them are Democrats because it’s the only political game in town. We’ll never find out what they really think until they have a realistic choice.

        I’d estimate that in the USA, 70% of self-identifying Democrats would be just as happy being Republicans within the first two years if they moved to a jurisdiction where the Republicans were dominant. The blacks would need another 4 years after that, so in 6 years it’d be 85% just as happy.

        Same thing with Republicans moving.

        1. Why the very obvious sockpuppet SQRLSY?

          1. Why the very obvious sockpuppet, Wasid?

    3. There are those who believe libertarians must be in all things firm in the basic libertarian principles, not relaxing them to get votes. When I look at the mass of electorate and see most all comfortable with taking advantage of others, of lying and deceit to gain their way, I wonder how principles will ever matter to the mass of voters. Are humans capable of self rule? Not that it matters, but it was nice that the party had a candidate for president…just so I could be honest with myself in casting a vote.

  2. Suffering under leftist totalitarianism, like the rest of us.

    1. At least they voted their principles. Or something.

      It is funny how many of those principles voters like chipper, sarc, dol, etc where cheering a trump loss while claiming to not support biden. Of that was the case they would be clamoring against both, not one. Yet they didn’t do that. Weird. They won’t even acknowledge Bidens plans for even greater federal growth, claiming he is a centrist.

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      2. Cry, cry cry.

        1. Yep, that’s all you every do.

        2. Hey Stack Overflow

          I read you work 16 hour days. I’m sorry you lead such a pathetic existence. It’s clear now who is really bound to cry. 😉
          Voting more socialist will probably help you though, by keeping your days at 16 hours but getting less for it.

          Additionally, I don’t think any of the socks in here know german. I do, if you need proof and want to work with me on your paranoia. And no, using google translate will tell someone fluent you’re using it within about 3 sentences. That oh so brilliant piece of AI software doesn’t even work for spanish very well if you want to have a more complex conversation.

          Also, why would it take socks to dislike you? You’re so far the most repulsive character I have found here so far. As I said above, likely very low testosterone. 😀

      3. It’s not cheering a Biden victory, its being sick of libertarian-posing Trump cheerleaders like you shitposting nonstop here for the past 4 years, and accordingly getting some quick chuckles out of your temper tantrums.

        1. Shut the fuck up and put a bullet in your head.
          You no principles whatsoever if you’re ok with how this election went down.
          You’re a fucking idiot filled with nothing but resentful feelz and extreme stupidity.
          Your life doesn’t matter, and I will cheer your death.
          Even as I lament the loss of my country, I will take small comfort knowing the fate you suffer.

          1. This like an unlimited buffet of delicious tears.

            1. I get the republicans probably did the same in 2016, but you are a bad winner. Have fun while it lasts.

              1. You obviously were sleeping in your gypsy trailer for the past four years and not here. But it’s pretty obvious you’re Tulpa pretending to be a normal boy, and failing in glorious fashion. Idiot.

                1. Not even close, but I do love living in your head.

                  1. sarcasmic is pretty pathetic yeah, and his sockpuppets are super obvious lolololl

                    1. Lolz

                    2. Suppose it could be sarc, I was more focused on this giant wave of obvious butthurt

                      “But it’s pretty obvious you’re Tulpa pretending to be a normal boy, and failing in glorious fashion. Idiot”

                      He mad!

                    3. So mad!

                    4. “M. Stack Overflow
                      November.8.2020 at 1:43 pm

                      Ok my bad it looks like it was sarc

                    5. and he’s super butthurt lolololol

                    6. I have never said “Lolz.”

                      Though I gotta say I like dude’s name. I spend hours on that site every week doing research for work.

                    7. I’m sure you do, most half-retarded illiterate script kiddies have to spend hours there copping the work of actual programmers in order to keep their entry level help desk jobs.

                      Weird that you get so much time off from work to drink yourself into an alcoholic stupor and shitpost on here 12-15 hours every day.

                    8. Ok mow it’s 100% certain it’s butthurt sarcasmic aahahahaha

                    9. I work 16 hour days during the week and then get 3 days off. Not much to it really.




                    11. “Though I gotta say I like dude’s name.”

                      So it was you.

                    12. This is awesome. Tulpa having a full-on schizo meltdown. Using his sock army and space-before-the-username trick to impersonate people. I can see the smoke billowing from his ears as he types from three computers at once. Keep going, this is delicious.

                    13. Ahahahahah your hero is a senile old man and you fucked up your sockpuppet sarcsmic!

                      cry more about it now ahaajahahaj

                    14. “M. Stack Overflow
                      November.8.2020 at 2:02 pm”

                      I’m sorry you’re upset sarc.

                    15. “M. Stack Overflow
                      November.8.2020 at 2:02 pm
                      This is awesome. Tulpa having a full-on schizo meltdown. Using his sock army

                      Are you the pot or the kettle in this one?

                    16. Fuck you Tulpa and all your sockpuppets.

                    17. Oh shit he said “Fuck you” he’s busted out the Popov!

                      He mad!

                    18. “this is delicious.”

                      How you know he’s crying lololo

                    19. Dance boy, dance! This is awesome. Burrrrp….

                    20. Definitely sarcasmic.

                    21. “Dance boy, dance”

                      And now sarc is stealing my old lines that pissed him off.

                      He sooooo mad!

                    22. I remember how upset that made him when you used it a decade ago. Seems like it still bothers him.

                    23. Well he’s still desperate to do anything to mitigate his shame from him admitting that I am smarter than he is.

                      Funny he chooses using sockpuppets to try it. You think he’d get his own thing but hey, imitation yo.

                    24. I thought he was bitching at you because he asked you and got totally shut the fuck down? I assumed it’s why he thinks lietrally every post is yours.

                    25. Yes, M. Stack Overflow, under his sarcasmic sockpuppet, asked me out and I turned him down. It was civil, but his reaction and subsequent tantrums have not been.

                    26. So all his socking and whining and crying for the past year is because you turned him down for a date? And this “everyone is Tulpa” thing is some pathetic face saving attempt?


                    27. Not kidding, he namechecks me because he’s desperate for my attention.

                    28. This is awesome. Tulpa having a full-on schizo meltdown. Using his sock army and space-before-the-username trick to impersonate people.

                      This after you accidentally replied to my post on your sarcasmic sock using the wrong username. Lmfao. Is there some fucked up part of your brain that actually thought this was a good idea? Like, you didn’t think anyone would scroll literally 3 lines up and see what happened? Holy fucking shit bro.

                    29. Big round of applause for Tulpa, the schizophrenic AI! He hopes someday he’ll be a real boy. We hope so too.

                    30. See? He’s still at it.

                      He can’t quit me.

                    31. Obviously sarcasmic.

                    32. M. Stack Overflow
                      November.8.2020 at 2:42 pm
                      Big round of applause for Tulpa, the schizophrenic AI! He hopes someday he’ll be a real boy.

                      Wow he really pissed you off sarcasmic.

                    33. >>M. Stack Overflow

                      looks like sarcasmic

                    34. sarcasmic
                      November.8.2020 at 1:48 pm
                      I have never said “Lolz.”

                      And you never post on weekends, at least that is what you told us.

                    35. /root # killall tulpa

                    36. ahahaha Yes like that!

                      dance bitch!

                    37. M. Stack Overflow
                      November.8.2020 at 3:37 pm
                      /root # killall tulpa

                      he reduced you to spamming you’re so mad!

                    38.  Tulpa
                      November.8.2020 at 2:47 pm
                      See? He’s still at it.

                      He can’t quit me

                      M. Stack Overflow
                      November.8.2020 at 3:37 pm
                      /root # killall tulpa

                      See? Desperate for my attention.

                    39. Damn sarcasmic has become even more broken. I guess it was Tulpa rejecting him for a date that really started his break.


                    40. I do recall that being about when he lost his fucking mind.

                      Roughly the same time his fuckbuddy Spunky got run off and drunkcasmic had to ally with Jeff and the shit eater.

                  2. 1,500, here we go.

                2. The past 4 years where you literally spent every single day peddling the latest Democratic Underground talking points and flogging the Russia collusion hoax even a year after the Mueller report hoisted you on your own petard?

                  1. Wait until the largest election fraud in US history by Democrats gets settled for Trump in Trump vs Biden.

                    What remained of their heads after 2016 are gonna explode completely.

                3. M. Stack Overflow
                  November.8.2020 at 1:32 pm
                  You obviously were sleeping in your gypsy trailer for the past four years and not here. But it’s pretty obvious you’re Tulpa

                  You assholes always do this and then act like you didn’t start the ball rolling.

                  1. No no it’s Tulpa’s fault someone else brought him up out of thin air because Tulpa is a troll you see. It definitely isn’t sarcasmic sour graping.

                    1. It definitely isn’t.

                    2. Give it a rest sarcasmic.

                4. You got issues. I will probably be the next permanent entity in your obsessed mind. That doesn’t really matter to me though.

                  See, whats so repulsive about you is that you actually pretend to think that Nardz is crying, and then you say you enjoy that. That is like acknowledging someone is already down, then you proceed to kick them while they are on the ground, and you claim to enjoy it.

                  That’s worse than Nardz just being generally hateful because he thinks he lost. You keep on kicking a perceived loser and pretend to enjoy it.

                  My guess is you have low testosterone and your biceps and pecs are a joke. 😀

                  1. Why the extremely obvious sockpuppet SQRLSY?

                    1. It doesn’t sit well with you that someone from outside can see what kinds of freaks you are in here, right?
                      You guys are so paranoid lol 😀

                  2. It’s more the fundamental lying that I detest.
                    It’s a characteristic tactic of leftists, and it’s exceptionally passive aggressive.
                    Believe what you believe, but be man enough to stand up and advocate your beliefs instead of gaslighting and concern trolling.

            2. As I pointed out before, he’s the opposite side of the coin with the Rev. Kirkland.

          2. I do not think the US is lost. Trump might be. But at this point, it would be better for the popularity of the republican party, is my guess. If anything, things have turned more red under the hood. I say this because they were tilted left before. Thus, things turning more moderate implicitly turns them more red, which is true as long as things are left of the center.

            There’s my reductionist 2 cents.

            1. I think you’re still in the optimistic phase.
              The Rs of the 15 years prior to Trump were either spineless or progressive themselves.
              Trump is literally the only person to fight corrupt government in my lifetime, and they’re in the process of stabbing him in the back.
              Once this election fraud succeeds, and goes unpunished, with the media and Corporate America (including Tech) working in full coordination as an arm of Big Brother, it will be the norm.
              We are at early Chavez here.
              I hope I’m wrong, but I get the distinct impression that the republic is lost – being replaced by a hydra regime every bit as cruel as the Nazis, Soviet Union, CCP, etc, but with even greater reach and power.
              What happens when if they decide to simply empty bank accounts electronically?
              Not like the press would cover it, and Big Tech will make sure talk of such occurrences is smothered as soon as it appears.

              1. I think the 2nd Amendment is a unique and brilliant installation in that it gives the constitution a mechanism to protect itself. We could say this is a resolute or able-bodied kind of constitution with the armed militia being the extension. The dystopia you just described would probably trigger that. And I have cautious optimism that moderates will be the winners before that. I don’t know though. However it seems that the left has really been slapped.

                1. Why the very obvious sockpuppet SQRLSY?

                  1. Sure. 😀 Sorry, but youre likely a sock of Stack if anything, probably someone who programs for a hobby but would fail doing it professionally.

                2. I would’ve thought that trigger a real possibility until the covid lockdowns.

          3. Nardz says…

            “Your life doesn’t matter, and I will cheer your death.”

            Hey Nadless Nardzi the Nasty NAZI… You are a Holocaust denier just like Rob Misek! Two peas in a pod, you and Rob Misek are!
            Do you deny what the NAZIs did? Perhaps not, I do not know HOW far your evil goes! You strut in front of a mirror wearing NAZI gear for all I know!

            What I DO know is that you ignore the roots of NAZI, and other, evil, mass-murdering authoritarianism! You, like Hitler and the NAZIs and other evil authoritarians, start out by assuming that YOU know whose life is worthy, and whose is not! Then you move on to sterilization and killing! It all starts out by denying the value of other human lives! And if you can’t or won’t see and acknowledge that, you’re a deluded and EVIL Holocaust denier, same as Rob Misek!

            You and and your fuckbuddy, Shitsy Shitler, also run around telling people to commit suicide! I have NEVER been THAT evil! Nor even THOUGHT about saying that to people! Take stock of your SERIOUSLY FUCKED UP SOUL, Evil One Junior! Start by reading this: M. Scott Peck, the Hope for Healing Human Evil,

            1. it’s funny how you can’t link to a single instance of Nardz denying the Holocaust, but we have multiple posts with date stamps and citations of you being a literal Nazi, Hitler admirer, anti-Semite and racist.

              1. Only if you take comments out of context and smash your sarcasm filter.

                1. You mean the sarcasm you hide behind like Tulpa and his socks?

                  Grow up.

                  1. ahahaahha and now he’s trying to attack himself aahahaha

                    no one is buying it sarc lololol

                    1. lolz

                    2. ahahah you mad!

            2. You hero is a senile old man ahahahahahahahahahah

          4. I’d piss on your grave after you die, but I really don’t like long lines.

            1. ” I really don’t like long lines.”

              Just stealing them from other people right?

              ahahahahahahah your hero is a senile old man ahahahaj

            2. That and you lost your license for drunk driving.

        2. Yeah, pretty much.

          1. Okay “M. Stack Overflow”

            lololol what a stupid fucking name ahahahahaaj

            ahahaha your hero is a senile old white man and a corrupt prosecutor aahahhaahah

            PARTY OF PROGRESS!!! Aahahahahahaahah

            1. “what a stupid fucking name ahahahahaaj”
              Says the guy that named himself jizzstain.

              1. ahahahahah you’re mad that your name is stupid ahahahahhahaha

                  1. I bet he cries again!!!

              2. it is a.stupid name

      4. Some of us, if not most, are you disingenuous fuck! Unlike you and your ilk who appear to want more childish fucking chaos in an already fucked up government.

        1. Listen here fat, shut the fuck up you dog faced pony soldier, let’s have a spelling contest and do some pushups. Trunalimunumaprzure!!!!!!!!!!

          1. /root # killall tulpa

            that should do it

      5. I hate Biden and am indifferent to the Don, who merely saved the GOP from Mittler. But with the communist anarchist albatross ruining Jo’s chances, what money I had went to the Dallas LP and a couple of candidates like Ted Brown, whose 4% in Texas at least halfway covered the gap. Jesse needs to bone up on spoiler vote math and “Why Voting Libertarian Works” or maybe try for a date with a Trumpista catamite like Yannopoulos

      6. I voted for Biden, bitch.

  3. You’ve already conceded future elections as the big L party. You aren’t even 1% interested in evidence of fraud. Such as Lancaster County that had 142k blots returned when only 108k were requested. Trumps total share was about 20% above the down ballot Rs while Bidens was 200% greater. Youre ignoring the jump from 3% to 18% of President only ballots in the major urban centers. Youre missing the election failing every statistical test used by election watchers to detect fraud.

    Why do you care about 1% when you’ve conceded vote recording to software from Dominion that even Bernie and Lizzie Warren questioned in 2016 for manipulation.

    Your principles matter not when you’ve conceded free and fair elections.

    For more read:

    Not even a hint of shenanigans though for the biden supporters here. Math apparently fails when you hate orange people.

    1. Math and history BOTH fail when you hate democracy!

      A sadly high number of commenters here fail both history and math, in that they lust after one-party rule… The ONE True Party, of course, being Republican!

      A VERY simple math-and-history quiz-question: Compare the history of one-party states… Integer, one, uno, “1” party allowed. Compare the historical success rates of “1” party nations, v/s “more-than-one” party nations. Political Parties > 1, mathematically speaking. “Success” of nation? Defined as the greatest happiness of the citizens, is a good definition. Long-term economic, political, and military power and stability can be ingredients as well.

      Who wins? Multi-party, or one-party states? Honest, educated, benevolent, and non-barbaric people will answer “multi-party states win”.

      What is WRONG with ye lusters after dictatorshit? If ye do NOT lust after dictatorshit, then WHY do you soooo-often, support stealing the votes from the people, or supressing the vote? WHY do you soooo-often, support the utter demonization of your opponents, and trying to CRUSH THEM UTTERLY, TILL THE END OF TIME, when simple freedom and democracy won’t allow that to happen? What’s with all the power-mania and egomania?

      1. ahahaha your hero is a senile old white man and a corrupt prosecutor aahahhaahah

        PARTY OF PROGRESS!!! Aahahahahahaahah

        1. You named yourself jizzstain, so there’s that.

          1. Ahahahahaha you’re so mad about getting laughed at because your hero is a senile old man ahahaahahahhahaah

            please cry again ahahahajaajaj

            1. Fuck off Tulpa.

              1. Ahahahahaha you’re so mad about getting laughed at because your hero is a senile old man ahahaahahahhahaah

                please cry again ahahahajaajaj

                  1. Yes like that!

                    dance bitch!

                    1. /root # killall tulpa

                    2. Yes like that!

                      dance sarcasmic!

                1. The senile old man beat Trump. Lol.

      2. For an overview of many sources about recent vote-suppression, see this:
        Election 2020’s Voter Suppression Reality

        1. Hey, good job on finding a blog post with a compilation of radical left wing opinion sources so we wouldn’t recognize your idiocy just from the URL. In the future, you can just link to Mother Jones directly and or to disguise it instead.

          1. If Nancy Pelosi claimed that the day is bright and the night is dark, you’d claim the opposite to be true, just because she’s a leftist, wouldn’t you?

            1. You hero is a senile old man ahahahahahahahahahah

            2. No, I’m not a braindead subhuman piece of shit who regurgitates the same 5 talking points in 5-paragraph format copy-paste blurbs 50-100 times a day, Mikey. I use my reason and intellect to decide things rather than reflexively opposing things because of who says them. Now you, of course, would deny that the earth was round if Trump claimed it to be, but that’s because of the aforementioned difference between us. That being that I use my reason and intellect to decide things rather than reflexively opposing things because of who says them, while you regurgitate the same 5 talking points in 5-paragraph format copy-paste blurbs 50-100 times a day.

              Excellent non-sequitur and attempted red-herring though. If you keep at it for another 10 years you might graduate to the level of sophistry that might actually work on primary school children.

              1. I’m SOOOO sorry for you, that you lost your Treasured Trumptatorshit! Why don’t you retreat to your safe space, put your snowflakes on ice before they melt in your total melt-down, and cuddle with the teddy bears that are provided for you, in your safe space?

                I hope you fell better soon!

                1. You hero is a senile old man ahahahahahahahahahah

                  1. Trump lost. Cry more.

                2. Look mom, I posted it again!

                  Maybe I’ll comfort myself by typing 10 posts into a word processor and copy them here daily for 4 years while I cling desperately to fantastical conspiracy theories about secret Russian psyops to steal the election like you have literally every day. For. Four. Fucking. Years. Lmfao.

                  1. Do you recall the awesome enchanter named “Tim”, in “Monty Python and the Search for the Holy Grail”? The one who could “summon fire without flint or tinder”? Well, you remind me of Tim… You are an enchanter who can summon persuasion without facts or logic!

                    1. Why the obvious sockpuppet Roberta?

        2. Nothing says Voter Suppression like 90-95% alleged turnout in Atlanta, Philly and Milwaukee black precingts

      3. You’re cheering for a one party state, moron.

      4. [WE] mob democracy fails – ALWAYS. This country IS NOT A FREAK-EN DEMOCRATIC NATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        That’s the problem when you POS Anti-Americans…. You’re so STUPID you can’t even figure out WHAT KIND OF FREAK-EN government the USA is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        It’s a Constitutional Union of Republic States!!!! NOT A DEMOCRACY!!!!!!!!! It has a U.S. Constitution that is the SUPREME LAW OVER ANY Representative DEMOCRACY law ever to pass.

        The voters are allowed to vote for a representative THEY BELIEVE WILL UPHOLD that U.S. Constitution (THE VERY FREAK-EN JOB THEY SWEAR TO DO!!!!)

        I’m getting so sick of the stupidity in this Nation…. Stop believing your Commie-Educators and THINK FOR A CHANGE!!!

        1. I hate to bring up the obvious but if there was actually no voter fraud going on and all Jo Jorgenson votes went to Trump; Trump would be re-elected today.

          In Millions
          GA Biden-2.465 Trump-2.455 Jo-0.061 = Trump-2.51 WIN
          PA Biden-3.355 Trump-3.314 Jo-0.077 = Trump-3.39 WIN
          AZ Biden-1.633 Trump-1.614 Jo-0.049 = Trump-1.66 WIN
          WS Biden-1.630 Trump-1.610 Jo-0.038 = Trump-1.65 WIN
          214 + 16 + 20 + 11 + 10 = 271 (TRUMP WOULD WIN)

          1. nom nom nom

            1. Give it a rest sarcasmic.

        2. It’s a constitutional representative democracy — as practically all of them are. Doesn’t make it any less of a democracy, nor less of a republic. These words you think mean different things, don’t. Demo-cracy: government by the district, i.e. the people of the district. Res publica: the people’s thing.

          1. “These words you think mean different things, don’t. ”
            The H*LL THEY DON’T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
            Especially with the WAY socialism is getting enacted by representative democracy…. THAT IS HOW the STUPID left thinks the USA democracy works; IT ISN’T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            So until they stop re-defining words to mean whatever they want them to be — It’s TIME to correct their FLAWED IGNORANT BELIEFS.

        3. We need a MAGA wet mop, some amyl nitrate, a fresh diaper and some Dr Trump Butthurt Salve on aisle 2.

    2. Yep, the Trumpista catamite is strong in this little one.

  4. This is enoug for me to Earn money at home on laptop ,Just work on laptop 4 to 6 hour par day and Make 50 Dollar Easily This is very nyc for me and my family………. Here is More information.

  5. I will renew membership this year and continue support for the LP.

    I want to thank some here, without naming names, for that. America needs the Libertarian Party.

    1. You do great as controlled opposition for totalitarian leftists.
      Keep it up, and keep covering for the persecution of jews because “orthodox don’t need synagogues”.

      1. “…keep covering for the persecution of jews because “orthodox don’t need synagogues.”


      2. Lol

        Half my family are Orthodox Jews. I was a yeshiva bucher in my youth.

        Last week I worked with my granddaughter to learn her aleph bet. She almost has all of it.

        I have a state university degree in Judaic Studies among other things I have done.

        Pikuach nefesh (preservation of life) is a cardinal principle in our religious heritage. It takes precedence over everything. Jewish people do not reject science nor medicine. In fact historically we as a people have contributed a great deal in those fields.

        Please do not try to lecture me on Jewish life and ethics.

        1. I’m not lecturing you on Jewish life and ethics, I’m calling you out for being an appeasing bitch who advocates surrender to the left at all costs, using your downplaying of Cuomo’s and Deblasio’s targeting of jews in New York as an illustration.

          1. “…an appeasing bitch who advocates surrender to the left…”

            Says one who would appease the Evil One by sacrificing human lives, by deciding which human lives are worth living, and which are not! Oh Great Nadless Nardzi the Nasty NAZI, Great Evaluator Of Worth Of Human Lives!!! All Hail Nadless Nardzi the Nasty NAZI!!!

            Just to fully inform readers here, especially NEW readers…

            Nadless Nardzi the Nasty NAZI is a Holocaust denier just like Rob Misek! (Another evil asshole who posts here). Two peas in a pod, Nadless Nardzi the Nasty NAZI and Rob Misek are!

            Does Nadless Nardzi the Nasty NAZI deny what the NAZIs did? As Misek does? Perhaps not, I do not know HOW far Nadless’s evil goes! It might strut in front of a mirror wearing NAZI gear for all I know!

            What I DO know is that Nadless Nardzi the Nasty NAZI ignores the roots of NAZI, and other, evil, mass-murdering authoritarianism! Nadless Nardzi the Nasty NAZI, like Hitler and the NAZIs and other evil authoritarians, starts out by assuming that Nadless Nardzi the Nasty NAZI knows whose life is worthy, and whose is not! Then Nadless Nardzi the Nasty NAZI moves on to sterilization and killing! It all starts out by denying the value of other human lives! And if Nadless Nardzi the Nasty NAZI (and fellow NAZIs) can’t or won’t see and acknowledge that, Nadless Nardzi the Nasty NAZI is a deluded and EVIL Holocaust denier, same as Rob Misek!

            Nadless Nardzi the Nasty NAZI and its fuckbuddy, Shitsy Shitler, also run around telling people to commit suicide! Even vaguely decent people don’t say things like that! Nor have they even THOUGHT about saying that to people! Nadless Nardzi the Nasty NAZI is FUBAR (Fucked Up Beyond Repair). But if YOU, Dear Reader, are much like Nadless Nardzi the Nasty NAZI , then take stock of your SERIOUSLY FUCKED UP SOUL, Evil One Junior! Start by reading this: M. Scott Peck, the Hope for Healing Human Evil,

            1. “Nadless Nardzi the Nasty NAZI and its fuckbuddy”

              “Sarah Palin’s Buttplug
              November.8.2020 at 4:04 pm
              I do recall that being about when he lost his fucking mind.

              Roughly the same time his fuckbuddy Spunky got run off and drunkcasmic had to ally with Jeff and the shit eater.”

              Total coincidence I’m sure…

            2. Psychotically calling people “Nazi” because they won’t bow to the left like you is not a good look.
              You really are not mentally competent to live on your own.

              1. If you don’t want to be called a NAZI, then stop writing like a NAZI! You could make a TINY LITTLE START towards becoming a non-NAZI (or commonly decent) person, by NOT arrogating to yourself, the decisions about whose human lives are, or are not, worth living! “Psychotic” describes YOU, Evil One Junior! Wake up and smell the coffee!!!

                1. Why the obvious sockpuppet Roberta?

                  1. Because he knows he’s a Nazi.

          2. When did I ever support Coumo and his reaction to hassidic weddings and funerals in Brooklyn?

            You don’t know a Satmer or Breslover from a Lubbovitch.

            Another straw man from you.

            Two Breslov street performers in Jerusalem doing Wish You Were Here. They are brothers. Oddly a song attributed to anti-Israel activist Roger Waters.



            1. I didn’t say you supported it, I said you downplayed it.
              It was in some roundup thread, probably the day after the order, or whenever Reason decided to finally acknowledge it.
              Not once have you objected to what’s happening in New York specifically, or lockdowns generally, but you work your ass off trying to spread their fear mongering message.
              You’re an absolute disgrace.

              1. and your tears are absolutely delicious. Kind of like a spicy tuna roll with fresh wasabi. nom nom nom

    2. Why does America need the Libertarian Party?

      1. tie-breaker

        1. sarcasmic ahahaha your hero is a senile old white man and a corrupt prosecutor aahahhaahah

          PARTY OF PROGRESS!!! Aahahahahahaahah

      2. To siphon off Drug War hating votes from the Republican Party?

        1. We siphoned them off the Dems in 2016, and THEY had sense enuf to delete losing planks and imitate ours. How about your brilliant political scientists?

      3. To offer a veneer of neutrality and bipartisanship to radical Marxism. Same as it ever was.

      4. Because America needs a principled opposition to the two party system.

        1. Who endorse and promote racial marxism…

      5. Remember that in a hall of perfect darkness, totally dark, if you light one small candle, its light will be seen from afar; its precious light will be seen by everyone.

        Menachem Mendel Schneerson

    3. I will never give unreason money including their stupid Amazon kickbacks. Fuck the Commies and Anarchists that staff this rag.

      On a lighter note, The LP was far less popular this election cycle. Trump was more popular and got more votes than 2016, while the LP got less.

      It will be fun to watch unreason staffers cry when Trump vs Biden gives Trump his second term.

  6. Obscurity: (noun) the state of being unknown, inconspicuous, or unimportant

  7. It leaves the LP where it has always been: irrelevant and generally detrimental to the cause of liberty.

  8. What’s next for the Libertarian Party is to be perpetually relegated to third place because of single member districts and Duverger’s Law.

    The only thing the Libertarian Party is really good for is to be like the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day parade. When families are getting together and thinking about what they’ll be getting each other for Christmas, Macy’s holds a parade so that consumers will watch the spectacle and think about shopping for those gifts at Macy’s. When voters are thinking about what they think and why during the election cycle, the Libertarian Party shows up with its crazy floats so that hopefully some of them will be open to thinking about the world in libertarian terms.

    Don’t be sad. Macy’s made a fortune off that parade, and to the extent the Libertarian Party makes people start thinking about libertarian ideas, it can be and has been wildly successful. It’s just that the measure of success for libertarians is in changing people’s minds about things like the Drug Warm the economy, and foreign policy rather than winning votes–but changing people’s minds, policy, and thereby the world is the only goal that really matters anyway.

    If the purpose of the Libertarian Party were to win elections, it would be a perpetual failure and a pointless exercise. I’d compare people who imagine the Libertarian Party actually winning national elections to people who think redistributing wealth is the way to achieve a just and prosperous society. They both have an idealistic and simplistic understanding of the way the world works. Learn to understand the essential truths of Duverger’s Law. That’s the shape of the game board. The goal isn’t to win elections under the heading of “Libertarian”. The goal is to change policy and the world.

    1. Ross Perot won 18.9 times what Jo Jorgensen did–and he won zero electoral seats.

      Teddy Roosevelt won 88 electoral seats in 1912 with 27% of the vote, but that was because he split the Republican Party in half (Taft won 23.2% of the vote and eight electoral votes). If TR and Taft had been unified as the Republicans, they’d have clobbered Woodrow Wilson. Meanwhile, those were the days before mass media, when the two major parties ability to raise money for advertising wasn’t as important as it is now.

      If if the LP candidate did as well as TR and Perot, our accomplishments would be “limited” to our influence–not actually winning elections.

      Yes, it’s ultimately necessary for the politicians in charge to remake policy in line with libertarian ideas, but it is not necessary for them to be called “Libertarian” or for them to win on the Libertarian ticket. The surest way forward is for libertarians to infiltrate and dominate the Republican party. Thinking that the Libertarian Party itself is the path to power in the real world is like not being able to differentiate between reality and a live action role playing game.

      In the real world, the Libertarian Party has no chance of winning a national election. In the real world, if the Republicans don’t win one of the senatorial races in Georgia, Joe Biden will be the only thing standing between us and the congressional Democrats. In the real world, the progressives in Congress will treat libertarian capitalists and their ideas like shit–in the name of common sense gun control, putting a stop to hate speech, saving the world from climate change, and making the Middle East safe for democracy.

      In the real world, avoiding those authoritarian and socialist outcomes and changing people’s minds is far more important than whether libertarian minded policies are implemented by politicians who win on the Republican ticket or on the Libertarian ticket. In the real world, Republican voters aren’t the enemy–they’re the battlefield, and our job is to win over as much of the battlefield as possible. If the Libertarian Party gets in the way of that goal, then maybe the future of the Libertarian Party should be to get rid of it.

      1. In the real world, the Libertarian party has more drug addicts and pedophiles than actual libertarians.

        1. Without comments like this, no one would miss the reply button!

      2. The surest way forward is for libertarians to infiltrate and dominate the Republican party.

        Most libertarians are already in the Republican party. Libertarians will never “dominate” the Republican party, but they are probably about 1/3 of the Republican membership, or probably about 10-20% of voters overall.

        The LP is negligible in comparison. The LP is still useful: it mops up all the poseurs and virtue signalers to whom labels are more important than political accomplishments.

        1. I think we can dominate the Republican party–certainly our ideas can. We could be like the NRA used to be–not an official part of the Republican party, but if you want to win the Republican nomination, you need to be on the right side on gun rights or you won’t win it. The N RA is a lot softer than I’d like them to be, but having that kind of hold on the Republican party would be a dream come true for libertarians–on all sorts of issues.

          Like punk rock and beer, the stronger flavors become diluted when they go mainstream, but if the Republican party were as libertarian as Goldwater, Reagan, and Trump, again, in the future, we would have a much more libertarian country. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think that the Republican party could be even more libertarian than those three were. In the future, Republicans can certainly differentiate themselves from socialism in the Democratic Party by becoming more capitalist.

          One of the things people are getting right about the election is that it was a repudiation of socialism. The Democrats know it, too, but they can’t stop themselves. They’re pushing the Green New Deal and expanding ObamaCare anyway–because that’s who they are. Certainly, as the Democratic party becomes more authoritarian and socialist, it is reasonable for libertarian capitalists to become more Republican. The Republicans won’t offer the undistilled capitalism so many of us libertarians are longing for, but it will make the mainstream more capitalist than it is now–and that’s winning.

          1. “One of the things people are getting right about the election is that it was a repudiation of socialism”

            The votes may have been, but the process and outcome certainly wasn’t. It was straight out of the socialist playbook, and it’s likely to work.
            Sometimes you don’t even get the chance to vote yourself into socialism, but you sure as hell can’t vote your way out.
            Welcome to the new normal, subject.

            1. The East Germans voted their way out of socialism.

              1. No, they didn’t. They showed up in person, and started tearing things down, like The Wall, and didn’t get shot by the Red Army.

                Voting was the bow on the already wrapped present. The willingness to resist, even if it meant their lives—aided by nobody actually shooting them this time, unlike ’56—was what broke Socialism overtly in that country.

                1. The Iron Wall fell when Hungary opened its border with Austria. The Warsaw Pact was unwilling to force Hungary to close its border and East Germany was unwilling to stop East Germans from going on vacation to Hungary. There was no longer a reason to maintain the Anti-Fascist Protection Rampart if people can go around it.

              2. … But they were already at the end of its Tootsie Pop. Maybe Americans would like to skip t hat.

                The Soviet peoples traded in their communism, in like fashion.

          2. I think we can dominate the Republican party–certainly our ideas can.

            A libertarian society simply isn’t in the cards for the US for several generations, given current demographics, education, culture, and technology; it simply wouldn’t work. A libertarian society requires lifelong commitment to financial responsibility, skill acquisition, etc. A century of progressivism has created a large population of helpless, government dependent people, and they need to be taken care of somehow.

            We can try to influence the Republicans in a libertarian direction and lay the groundwork for making Americans more self-reliant and receptive to liberty again, but that’s all that’s achievable.

            1. People are nowhere near as bad off as you think. If people were helpless, why would there have been that movement to resist the suppression of Uber in California? Why would there be the proliferation of work-from-home solicitations right here? Why would there be people seeking to go legit with medical and recreational marijuana? People are just itching for things to do to make money.

              And that’s just in this country. What do you think about the rest of the world? Endless possibilities.

              1. I didn’t mean to imply that everybody was “helpless, government dependent people”. But a large percentage of Americans are incapable of educating their children, getting healthcare, not starving in retirement, or even getting a job without government help; they simply lack the skills.

                Nor did I imply that people were “badly off”; in fact, socialism and progressivism deliver roughly on what they promise: universal education and healthcare and a government run by experts; no thought required from the population. It’s not a good life but many people want that, and as long as people can vote themselves what they want, they get it.

      3. The surest way forward is for libertarians to infiltrate and dominate the Republican party.

        Were you asleep from 2009-2012?

        We’ve seen that movie. We know how it ends. Libertarians don’t take over the Republicans. Instead, Republicans co-opt Libertarians with bullshit culture war issues.

        1. Do you ever stop crying about Republicans?

          1. But 5 decades of failure is totes outweighed by the year or two they actually tried!

            1. To clarify: I keep hearing about how libertarians need to support the LP and reject trying to work within the Rs because libertarians apparently tried doing that once, briefly, and didn’t get everything they wanted.
              But 50 years of the LP not slowing, or actively contributing to, the growth of government is proof that libertarians need to follow the One True Both Sidez! faith and put all their efforts into using the LP to defeat Rs.

              1. Challenge for “Both sides Jeff”

                List the libertarian changes in government over the past decade.

                Then list who championed those changes.

                I’ll wait.

                1. Seems to me like exactly the kind of “discussion” Jeff is always complaining is absent.

                2. Why do only one decade?

                  Let’s go back 50 years, which is how long the LP has been around.

                  Over the past 50 years, both Team Red and Team Blue have flip-flopped on every major issue. Every single one. Even Reagan supported gun control and legalized abortion – as a Republican, in California. They don’t have principles. Neither one does. They have only a quest for power.

                  1. “Why do only one decade?”

                    Because it’s a finite time span that will allow ua to discuss modern issues. And more involves most of the primary actors in politics currently.

                    “Let’s go back 50”

                    Let’s not. Fuck Strom Thurmond you moron. 50 years ago is nearly two generations and only an idiot would think 1970 has anything to do with modern discourse.

                    However, from your intentional failure I can see you can’t support your position unless you plumb the depths of history for “both sides” stupidity that you love to pretend to.

                    1. Jeff knows the Republicans have the liberty baton at the moment, so rather than admit that and have his narrative destroyed he instead ignores the point and blathers about decades past.

                    2. He’s never been a good faith debater and he isnt starting any time soon.

                    3. Both teams have “had the liberty baton” on some areas, in certain circumstances, at certain points in time. Yup! So what? It doesn’t mean that they are principled defenders of liberty. It only means that they are unprincipled whores using concepts of liberty in their demagogic appeals, not as principled defenders of liberty for its own sake.

                    4. One decade is not long enough to look at how the two parties actually treat concepts of liberty. Sure, in the past 10 years, it has been dogma on the right to lower taxes always, and keep them low. But, just go back a little farther, and you see Republicans raising taxes. Heck go back a little farther, and you see Republicans imposing wage and price controls. WTF man? This goes to show that Republicans do not have a principled commitment to liberty. It is just a useful concept for achieving power. Trump lowered taxes because he thought it was the right thing to do, and he could win votes by doing so. Bush Sr. raised taxes because he thought it was the right thing to do, and he could win votes by doing so. If we just look only at modern history and ignore the past, we get a deceptive view of how both parties have treated economic liberty. Same goes for every other issue. Sure Republicans now are supportive of gun rights. But it was none other than Reagan who supported gun control in California when he was governor, and he also supported the so-called assault weapons ban in 1993. So what am I supposed to conclude about how Republicans *really* feel about the right to keep and bear arms? Do they agree with it on a principled basis? Or is it just a tool to try to win votes, and if modern Team Red thought they could win votes by supporting gun control, they would do so – JUST LIKE they did in the past?

                    5. It only means that they are unprincipled whores using concepts of liberty in their demagogic appeals,

                      And that’s a good thing! Would you rather try to make progress against ideologues set in granite? Or would you rather have responsive demagogues (“leaders of the district” — i.e. of the people of the district) with their finger to the wind, when you can be part of that wind? Shit, how do you think influence works?

                  2. Let’s go back 50 years, which is how long the LP has been around.

                    Yet another reason you get laughed at. You know R’s have been better lately so you jigger the timeline to avoid admitting it.

                    1. He seems to not understand that the question wasn’t about the Libertarian party at all, and about which major party has been more libertarian recently.

                      He knows the answer isn’t his Democrats, so he plays games.

                    2. This ENTIRE DISCUSSION is about the Libertarian Party. Did you read the article?

                      Some teams have been better or worse on liberty in some areas at some points in time. So what? What do you think that proves?

                      When the next left-wing or right-wing demagogue comes around, Team Blue and Team Red will both shed their current positions and adopt the positions of whatever the demagogue says. Where is the principled defender of liberty? Hmm?

                    3. The point that you seem incapable of grasping, is that it doesn’t matter who has “the liberty baton” now, because the two teams just trade it off in pursuit of power. If Team Red thought they could win elections by waving around “the liberty baton”, they would do it. Same with Team Blue. Neither one has a fundamental commitment to liberty.

                    4. “It doesn’t matter if the left have developed into totalitarian Marxists (which they’ve actually been for the last century+) because b-b-both sides!”

                    5. And he goes back mored than 50 years on Governor Reasgan to draw some bullshit conclusions on All Republicans

                  3. The fact that they flip-flop is the opportunity! It means they’re open to suggestions, subject to influence.

                    And remember, as RAW wrote, convictions make convicts.

        2. Instead, Republicans co-opt Libertarians with bullshit culture war issues.

          What “culture war issue” have Republicans raised in recent years? I’m not aware of any. Can you give examples?

          1. lol you’re kidding, right?

            1. No, I’m not kidding: I really don’t understand what you’re talking about when you’re say “Republicans co-opt Libertarians with bullshit culture war issues”. Your statement simply doesn’t make sense.

              Can you state clearly what you actually mean?

              1. Well, let’s start with guns.

                Then we can move on to illegal immigration.

                1. Republicans have co-opted Libertarians with the 2nd Amendment?
                  Please never post again

                2. Well, let’s start with guns. Then we can move on to illegal immigration.

                  I don’t see how guns or illegal immigration are “culture war” issues or what they even have to do with culture. They are about the constitution and enforcement of laws by the executive branch.

                  And as issues, I don’t see how Republicans have “co-opted” Libertarians on these issues, given that many Libertarians have fundamentally different views from Republicans.

                  You’re using the terms “culture war” and “co-opt” incorrectly.

            2. You could have just answered. If you had one.

          2. Its a mi dlees trope used as a lazy dodge.
            The Culture War is being waged aggressively by the Left.

    2. Our libertarian votes defeat Republican National Socialists and East German Democrats. We win elections by making you looters lose. think of it as evolution in action.

    3. If the LP wanted to be taken seriously, they’d push HARD for the senate Republican candidates from Georgia.

      A 52-48 Republican Senate guarantees a roadblock to any progressive plans of the Democrats while Biden/Harris are in the White House.

      Roadblocks are the best defense for liberty and this move gives the LP a little good-faith to parlay with the Republicans.

  9. What’s Next for the Libertarian Party After Jo Jorgensen Got 1%?

    You could do midgets dancing around a Stonehenge mini-replica. But I think Spinal Tap already did that.

  10. “who bungled the COVID-19 pandemic”

    Why do so many people spout this in ignorance of Federalism, when they spout “Federalism” often enough otherwise that you’d think they must be familiar with the concept?

    CDC is the federal agency in charge of federal actions, and they bungled it so many times in so many ways that blaming Trump is just silly. Remember the ban in private research into tests while the CDC *knew* its own test did not work? Remember the mask reversals? Remember Fauci telling people to wear goggles?

    Gaaaak. TDS is still potent.

    1. Worse, compare and contrast with the rest of the west. The US and Europe have a lot in common, although freedom of travel in europe is more restricted.

      And what do the numbers show? Roughly comparable. The US mostly doing better, but roughly comparable.

      So that is pretty much how it goes if you want a free society. Countries that could lock down a smaller state sized nation, or countries with totalitarian governments like China were able to do better. But at what cost?

      Absent a national quarantine order enforced by the national guard, I don’t see how the US could have stopped this virus. And it is bad… But not historically bad. We had a lot of diseases that killed more people in the world before vaccination, and life went on.

    2. You know who else bungled the response? Everyone everywhere.

    3. This is an area where the Dems wipe the floor with the GOP.

      The Dem messaging on COVID, as with many other issues, was on point. To an informed observer it was obvious bullshit. But the typical low-information voter heard “Trump bungled COVID” so clearly and so many times, that it stuck.

      We mock the “DNC talking points” but that shit works, and they are very disciplined about it.

      1. Vote Goebbels; he knows the real truth!

      2. Big Brother has the most powerful and pervasive messaging/broadcast apparatus that has ever existed

    4. My question is where in the Constitution is the POTUS given any authority to deal any health situation? It’s not his job.

    5. Excuse me, but why call a Red Chinese germ war attack a pandemic? Was Pearl Harbor damaged by accidental explosions?

  11. What is next for the big L?

    Absolutely nothing.

    We are seen as a joke, and we kind of deserve it. I bought in on the Gary Johnson candidacy. As a repudiation of Barr to some degree, but an actual professional. Then his second run happened. Oof. He seemed to just phone it in.

    Nobody bothered to pay attention to Jo. Not even the libertarian publication of record, for the most part. Yet she still got 1%. So that seems to be our base. 1% committed L voters. Gary Johnson expanded that to 3. There was a moment.

    Now where are we?


    By concentrating on a national stage where the two party machine ensures that we are neither seen nor heard, we are irrelevant.

    Hell, the machine has become so powerful that they even openly move to silence one of the big 2 candidates and the sitting president. You think we are going to get a seat at that table?

    No, the path is clear. We need to become more clear in our ideology. We are not anti Trump, or anti Republican or anti Democrat or anti progressive.

    We are pro liberty. We fight for freedom in all forms at every level. We oppose wars of aggression, but we also oppose oppressive local zoning laws. We are against the federal war on drugs, but we also oppose state restrictions on mail order liquor sales.

    We need a consistent voice on liberty. No nutty shoe on head candidates, no anti-fed conspiracy theories… Just hones, pure, NAP based governance that places individual liberty first. Whether that comes I. The form of a mayor of a small town who fights to stop police from harassing the working poor in order to fill a budget hole, or a local prosecutor who moves to correct injustice in the prosecutorial process… Or any other form.

    Reason and Cato need to lead this charge. We need a new focus on local issues, local candidates and local solutions. Making people aware of the small boot on their neck and how they might throw it off will pay dividends later in casting of the two big boots on everyone’s necks.

    1. More thoughts on local issues… Team D is unassailable in places like new York and San Francisco.

      But there are huge holes for libertarians to exploit.

      Housing codes in these cities guarantee that there is no affordable housing for anyone absent a government subsidy and mandate.

      A libertarian administration could wipe this out in 4 to 8 years. By simply removing limits on new development and gradually eliminating rent controls over a few years, the housing problem would be solved. How many units do you think would be built in Manhattan if they could offer them at My price and build them with minimal instructions (basic safety codes, not social engineering or giveaways)?

      How many buildings in midtown might be raised for a much larger replacement? In 10 years the housing stock might go up by 25%. Older buildings might have to close for renovation due to lack of tenants. A win for everyone except people who own dumps that sublease for several thousand per month.

      1. Housing codes in these cities guarantee that there is no affordable housing for anyone absent a government subsidy and mandate. A libertarian administration could wipe this out in 4 to 8 years. By simply removing limits on new development and gradually eliminating rent controls over a few years, the housing problem would be solved.

        So you are saying the federal government should impose zoning regulations at the national level, overriding local preferences, for the purpose of making housing statistics across the country look better? How is that in any way “libertarian”?

        How many units do you think would be built in Manhattan

        I’m sorry that the people of NYC seem to have arranged their affairs badly and are suffering homelessness as a result, but that’s just not my problem. To a libertarian, the price of housing in Manhattan is solely the concern of people living in Manhattan.

        I don’t know what you are, but you certainly don’t give a f*ck about liberty.

        1. I think he was talking about local administrations, although I have no idea how he thinks he might get those in CA or NY.

          1. Cyto was talking about “a libertarian administration”, referring to the federal government, overriding NYC’s absurd local regulations and overriding NYC local Democrat government, so that NYC’s housing problems can be solved by market forces. Read it again.

            1. Read the first comment in the thread. He mentions getting *off* the national stage, and getting *into* local politics twice.

              So… Read it again yourself.

              1. This.

                Running for president is a waste of time. Can never happen. It is rigged. No 3rd party allowed. Opening is much more local.

                1. You yourself just called “Team D unassailable” in New York, yet you propose as a strategy for libertarians to “assail Team D” in New York. You’re contradicting yourself.

              2. Your interpretation makes no sense. He says “Team D is unassailable in places like new York and San Francisco”, yet you are saying that he then proposes for Libertarians to “assail Team D” and prevail, resulting in “many units [being] built in Manhattan”? That makes no sense.

            2. No…. A mayor and/or city council. There is no path to governor or president. That path is owned by the duopoly. Most places you can’t even get in a debate.

              But you can for mayor of oakland.

              1. In practice, outside the big D-dominated cities, most places are already pretty libertarian, so I don’t see big inroads there. At the local level, the differences between D and R still aren’t very large.

        2. I’m not suggesting doing that, but it’s libertarian the same way outlawing murder is. Not all impositions by government are anti-liberty.

    2. Well said. And it has to come from the bottom up. The national stage so far has been nothing but the shoe-on-head types, and the media isn’t going to change that; they are captured by the two big parties and will do everything they can to ridicule outsiders with the gall to claim a seat at their table. Just as legislators, the President, and judges will huddle together when faced with an existential threat, so will the two parties huddle together to stomp out any existential threat.

      Has to come from small towns, school boards, everything at the bottom first. Once they have name recognition, they can move up, but they must start at the bottom where shoes on heads have no interest.

    3. “I will support no new laws, however I will support the repeal of any legislation that restricts the life, liberty or property of any citizen who has done nothing to harm another.”

      That’s about it, right? I’d vote for that person, but who else would? People want politicians who will do stuff, not politicians who will undo stuff.

      1. Right. You for example support politicians who have suggested mass murder to confiscate guns from law abiding citizens.

        1. I think you have me confused with the voices in your head.

          1. Ok M. Stack Overflow

            1. That IS interesting though, I just saw in another part of the thread that he used the wrong account to respond to a question about work. I suppose wasid is another sock of his (would match him, wasd has something to do with computers and someone who makes one sock might as well make more. But these sock speculations are only fun for so long.)

          2. I know you forget a lot of things you say because of your drunken blackouts on account of your hopeless alcoholism, which is also why you are a piece of subhuman shit welfare leech with no job, but trust me, the many hundreds of times you endorsed Biden/Harris and supported their radical Marxist policies like the Green New Deal are all a matter of very clear public record in black and white. Your endorsement of political violence, riots, assault, battery and rape are also there for all to see.

            1. “which is also why you are a piece of subhuman shit welfare leech with no job”

              This is true, he admitted he was jobless and not paying his rent, and worried about eventual eviction.

              1. Holy crap! That’s terrible news! I should tell my boss and my landlord!

                1. You really don’t have to lose your shit like that over every comment bud.

                  1. He kinda does. It’s all he has left after claiming he was hacked and that he was just kidding when he drunkenly confessed his unemployment, destitution, family problems, and welfare leeching.

                    1. Oh right this must be fake weekend sarcasmic.

                      So I guess he'll be blaming Tulpa again.

                  2. Why shouldn’t I lose my shit? I didn’t know I was unemployed and about to be homeless! This is awful! My boss and landlord aren’t going to be happy!

                    1. sarcasmic
                      November.8.2020 at 4:55 pm
                      Why shouldn’t I lose my shit?

                      At least you finally admit it M. Stack Overflow.

                      Now try to control yourself.

                    2. Lay off the Perry Mason, dude.

                    3. Give it a rest M. Stack Overflow.

            2. If that’s the case then it should be no trouble for you to come up with a score of examples of me saying such things.

              1. I think we all know you use childish sarcasm specifically to avoid that exact kind of accountability. It’s like Tulpa using socks, only you hide behind sarcasm to maintain plausible deniability.

                    1. I’m not going to go to the 2nd page of Google to cite another dozen examples that you’ll just deny, as you did in the very threads where you posted in the first place.

                      Bonus link: here’s sarc pining for Tulpa

                    2. Or hey, I could always use your standard copout when you get busted blatantly lying and say I was just being sarcastic. But I don’t have to do that. Because I’m not a lying piece of shit like you and it’s easy to cite multiple examples of you excusing and supporting radical left wing political violence in the furtherance of radical left wing policy goals since you do you so on a daily basis, multiple times per day, for 8-16 hours a day.

                    3. Bonus link: here’s sarc pining for Tulpa

                      ok that is hilarious

                    4. Shit, sarcasmic/M. Suck Overall is one stupid fuck.

                    5. Um ok. I say “Chalk is not property destruction” in context of something that can be washed off by rain, and that constitutes “endorsement of political violence, riots, assault, battery and rape.”

                      You’re insane.

                    6. Control yourself please M. Stack Overflow.

                    7. “Chalk is not property destruction” in context of something that can be washed off by rain, and that constitutes “endorsement of political violence,

                      That’s you saying “they have insirance” so yes it does.

                    8. Shit, sarcasmic/M. Suck Overall is one stupid fuck.

                      Mkay please don’t spoof my handle thanks.
                      FYI I don’t get into whatever weird bullshit this. I’m guessing you’re a hikikimori cuz people with real lives don’t do this.

      2. No, people are looking for politicians to both do stuff and undo other stuff. They want both, and on average they put equal emphasis on getting rid of what they dislike and getting what they do like.

        Have any of you tried polling strangers? You know, putting in some time and phoning people, getting hung up on a lot, but eventually getting lots of answers, just like the pros do? You may be surprised; you may not. Either way, wouldn’t you like to know?

    4. So that seems to be our base. 1% committed L voters.

      There are far more libertarians in the country than that.

      I’m glad we are smart enough not to touch the LP with a ten foot pole. The LP is toxic, both in its public perception and in its political strategy.

      1. There may not be far more radical libertarians than that, but there are far more somewhat libertarian persons than that. Actually, everyone is somewhat libertarian, it’s just a matter of degree, even Mao Zedong and Macias favored liberty in some regards, or at least didn’t want to dictate every little detail of everything; ask them which of your neckties you should wear today, at least some of the time they’d’ve answered, “The fuck I know.”

      2. The NATIONAL LP is toxic with the communist anarchist ruining Jo’s campaign. Only the NAP saved Jeremy Beethead from being pushed under the bus.

    5. This is beautiful. I agree 1,000%.

    6. Practically everybody knows the Libertarian Party is pro-liberty. Hell, it’s in the name! Years ago I polled to check, and they do know. (They didn’t always; something happened by the late 1980s to put the knowledge over. My polling results changed on that knowledge question.) What they’re not sold on is the desirability of that much liberty. Seriously, if you poll people pretty much around the world, the amount of liberty they have is the amount they consider about right.

      1. Brazilian voters-at-gunpoint are largely shocked at the idea of letting women have individual rights in violation of the precepts of papal infallibility. I have no data good enough for statistics, but was shocked that Torquemada and the Inquisition pack such clout in the 21st Century.

    7. Plasm here is pretending not to understand “Why Voting Libertarian Works.” This identifies him, her or it as a Republican sockpuppet or algo.

      1. Probably went the TLDR rout. If you find the energy, try again.

    8. Jo got the none of the above vote. That’s it. She got even less than the write-ins.

      She talked smart but was completely undermined by Jerome “spike” Cohen. If she can’t control that leftist Messianic hippie, she couldn’t be taken seriously.

  12. “Rep. Justin Amash (L–Mich.), who wasn’t elected as a Libertarian but switched party affiliations. But Amash opted not to run for reelection in 2020.”

    There’s this thing called Duverger’s Law. I’m not sure Amash knew about it until after he went all Et tu Brute on his party’s president. Single member districts is the shape of the game board.
    If chess boards were round, it would be a different game.

    1. Yeah… He got too big for his britches.

      I am glad there are people of principle. I just wish he had gone the denis kucinch rout and remained as the conscience of the party.

      1. Being principled doesn’t mean being unwilling to do things that are hard because of your principles.

        Being principled means standing by your principles–even if you can’t stand Donald Trump.

      2. He didn’t even need to go there. Rand Paul is an excellent example of a politician pushing libertarian views, and forming coalitions to achieve what’s achievable. No reason Amash couldn’t have done that.

        1. No reason Amash couldn’t have done that.

          The fact that he’s a Marxist whose family business is dependent on friendly relationships with the CCP. That’s 2 pretty good reasons.

          1. Volleyball teams need setters and spikes.

            Great answer, especially the second part. I’ll tee up as many as I can for you, if you keep answering them like that.

    2. If wishes were fishes, Ken would be a sockpuppet at the New Republic or John Birch Journal

  13. The only way to get a libertarian caucus in Congress is to join the Repubs and win in the primaries when very few people vote. Even if 5% of the voters are libertarians, they will never win in any state or district on geographical represenation. It would be nice if we had 5% of Congress from the LP, but we don’t have a parliament.

    1. In Germany the (libertarian) Free Democrats most often are in coalition with the (conservative) Christian Democrats and in Australia the Liberals and Nationals (Lib-Nats) have been in a coalition forever. So it would seem that libertarian parties have very little trouble entering into coalitions with conservative parties. I don’t know if any examples where libertarians are in coalition with socialist/labor parties or parties of the left in general, maybe such an alliance exists, but it doesn’t seem to be much in evidence.

      1. I don’t know if any examples where libertarians are in coalition with socialist/labor parties or parties of the left in general, maybe such an alliance exists, but it doesn’t seem to be much in evidence.

        The Libertarians in the United States are in alliance with the neo-Marxist Democratic Party and endorsed their last 2 presidential candidates explicitly. So that’s one example.

      2. Germany has a form of proportional representation. TL, DNR version is a party needs to get 5%. German electoral system (Wiki)

        Arranging that for Congress would take an amendment. TPTB have no incentive to allow that. States like New York and Connecticut allow fusion: the candidate’s name can appear on multiple ballot lines. I could have voted “Independence” or “Working Families” if I had wanted to vote for a cross-endorsed D or R not facing a Libertarian.

        1. This makes me wonder: if Trump had promised Jorgensen a cabinet post (commerce for example) I wonder if that would have influenced her voters to vote for him.

          1. Deregulating, bringing the troops home, criminal justice reform, and lower taxes weren’t enough to do that, 68. Why would that block care if an amateur, pandering to BLM, got a Cabinet seat or not?

            There’s a core of LP voters that want to feel like they’re above it all—that relish losing—more than they want to support a candidate who actually accomplished what the LP claims to want.

            1. You’re probably correct.

            2. “pandering to BLM”

              The Marxist Long March Through the Institutions has gone so deep, they’ve even gotten around to the Libertarian Party.

              And Reason Magazine.

          2. He already made a libertarian Secretary of Education, for fuck’s sake!

          3. No chance. If you vote libertarian, you are informed on the issues. Endorsements are unlikely to sway you, and if you were already not voting for Trump at this point, no endorsement was going to change that.

  14. We have systemic issues that disenfranchise libertarians.

    I’m sure a certain party that cares about that sort of thing will be fixing it, any day now.

    1. The green party has a so.ilar problem.. as does the Communist Workers Party of America. They managed to find candidates and support in a major party.

      We had some such support following the Tea Party, but infighting killed off a lot of those gains. Still, the libertarian-ish conservative wing is stronger than the neocons.

      So I guess both parties are kind of following that strategy.

      1. “The green party has a so.ilar problem.. as does the Communist Workers Party of America. They managed to find candidates and support in a major party.”

        Wellllll…unless it’s projected to be a really close election. Then they’re expected to butt the fuck out. By force, if necessary.

        The Democrats tried really hard to knock the Greens off the ballot in several states. They didn’t really care if the Libertarians were there or not. Draw your own conclusions.

        1. AOC, Omar, etc. Are green party people by any reasonable definition. They are the D version of Amash, Flake, paul, etc for the R a few years back.

          Obama allowed team R to take in more libertarians via the tea party. Trump allowed the D to take in more greens.

    2. There are no issues for Libertarians to win on.

        1. I guess you can’t read or don’t understand what “win on” means.

      1. There’s one that’s always been there: taxes. People are practically always on the libertarian side on that one.

    3. Name a systemic issue that disfranchises libertarians anywhere in the USA. Or by “systemic issue” do you mean things that are their own fault?

      1. You may be too young. Ross Perot showed the two major parties that 3rd party candidates cannot be allowed.

        They changed all of the debate procedures in response. There will not be another challenger from outside the two parties as long as that agreement and control lasts.

        1. There’s also “Nixon’s Anti-Libertarian Law”, search for it

  15. I don’t understand how anyone can expect a third party to make any gains against the “must vote the lesser of two evils” game that is played in every election.

    1. I’ve been perturbed by how voters get sucked into that every election since I started paying attention in 1980.

      1. Democrats are the Party of slavery and Socialism and their supporters want that forced on you.

        Republicans and Libertarians dont want that.

        Its a fight for our lives. How can you blame people for having some investment? What leave it up to corrupt Democrats ballots counters? No thanks.

        1. The biggest problem the Libertarians have is the same as the Republicans, when compared to the socialists.
          You can enslave a people, but there is no way to force them to be free.

      2. “I’ve been perturbed by how voters get sucked into that every election since I started paying attention in 1980”

        So you haven’t learned anything in 40 years

        1. “The Case For Voting Libertarian” was aired on “Live and Let Live” and has been online since 2007. Not one looter republican sockpuppet has ever found a single error anywhere in the argument. Vote Libertarian and the looters have to choose between repealing bad laws and losing that hand in the till. It’s that simple. Do they hate it? Do they struggle to evade it?

    2. Can you say “spoiler vote clout?” Did the Prohibition party set cops to blowing people’s brains out over light beer with 1.4% of the vote?

  16. She bent the knee. She can fuck right off.

  17. RIP Alex Trebek

    He’s on the big anal bum cover in the sky now.

    1. Connery went just a few days earlier, I hope St. Peter can handle the squabbling.

      1. That’s right. Damn, I didn’t even make the connection.

    2. He showed tremendous grace and heart in his final few years. I found inspiration I how he handled himself.

      A sad occasion.

      1. He was recording Jeopardy episodes right up to the end.

    3. Who is Alex Trebek?

      1. Who was Art Fleming’s replacement?

        1. Kevrob has control of the board.

        2. He replaced Alan Ludden on College Bowl.

  18. What’s next? Same thing they have always done, go to sleep for four years then pray hope they can win the superbowl with a single hail mary pass.

    Also, have huge internecine fights over purity.

    1. ahahahahah your hero is a senile old man aaaja but hey at least his backup is a dirty cop hahahahajaahaj

  19. Hell it’s been 50 years, and you just now realized you should be running more local elections?

    1. I can’t imagine a Libertarian getting anywhere near a local office anywhere but a few isolated pockets in the county. Wyoming, Alaska, Montana, maybe. Places like that.

      1. I think libertarianism is something of a frontier worldview, so it makes sense that it would be more popular in places where people have to develop a high degree of self-reliance such as the states mentioned.

        1. Just look at the red-blue maps. If the winner was decided by square miles, the left would never win.

          1. Land don’t vote.

            1. No shit. Talk about missing the point.

              1. He was simply agreeing with you you drunken fucking retard.

                  1. Fuck off Tulpa.

                    1. Lolz

                    2. Yes we laugh at you too.

                    3. “M. Stack Overflow”

                      So you’re “Nail” too then.

                    4. Nail can eat dog shit, he ran around spoofing me for weeks.

                    5. Nail can eat dog shit, he ran around spoofing me for weeks.

                      Lol Plug, try one day. I wrote your roundup ‘apology letter’ and that’s basically it. Strange to know the free rent I’m getting your head. I honestly feel bad for you dude.

                      Also here’s a linky to that incase you want to revisit 🙂


                  2. “M. Stack Overflow”

                    So you’re “Nail” too then.

                    Someones spoofing my handle again. Joy. Original comment (*innocent giggle*) was my only legit comment on this thread until I just came back to find some lonely ass creeper spoofing my handle.

                1. Grace has a lot of room to talk about drunkenness… How’s China?

        2. I think libertarianism is something of a frontier worldview

          And yet every libertarian thinker has been an effete European city slicker of Ashkenazi Jewish descent and the party is comprised entirely of utopian Marxist navel gazers who think Staten Island is the wild country.

        3. Libertarianism doesn’t necessitate “self reliance.” That’s the way most people misunderstand it though. The NAP doesn’t require everyone to be “self reliant.”

          1. Perhaps not, but people who are self reliant are probably more likely to have a libertarian perspective.
            I live in the country-water comes from a well I paid to have drilled (and paid again to have repaired a couple of years ago), the road is gravel I pay for (and spread with my tractor and box blade) and, if I hear gunshots, I think target practice or hunting-not crime. Libertarians would fit right in here, Progs probably not so much.

      2. Libertarians wouldn’t have a hope or prayer in any of those places because they generally don’t like effete pantywaist neo-Marxists who would starve to death if Whole Foods went 3 weeks without a soy delivery.

      3. I help elect a libertarian to city council in a significant suburb and tech center in California. It was a non-partisan race of course, but he won while still registered Libertarian. For a partisan office, that’s no longer local unless you live in Rhode Island. Statewide office and all that.

        And you’re probably right. People want their pork and dole with gravy on top. And libertarians don’t promise that. Can’t compete against the pork Republicans and dole Democrats. That doesn’t mean driving the city/county/state/nation into bankruptcy is the moral thing to do. Some things are more important than political team colors.

  20. Problem is many would support Libertarians more, but they don’t want to risk someone they really don’t like getting elected. That was true for me living in PA. I would have happily voted for Jo Jo if I was not scared of Trump wining. The solution for this is ranked-voting. Another change is we could go to a proportional representation. 1% vote is still 4-5 seats in the House. Until either of those I don’t see third parties getting anywhere.

    1. I’ve heard people in CALIFORNIA give the exact same argument. Here in the safest state for Biden outside of Delaware and I still get finger wagged for voting for Jo. Huh?

      So yeah, I’ve heard your argument before. And I will excuse people living in swing states for it. But makes no sense in deep Blue or deep Red states. Because in those safe states the voters pulled levers for Biden or Trump because they gleefully wanted to, not because they were skert of the other winning.

    2. Which “ranked-voting”? I’m guessing that you are talking about Instant Runoff Voting (IRV) – in use for over a century in Australia. In all that time it has not produced a viable multiparty system. Runoff voting itself is, at best a marginal improvement over current first-past-the-post FPTP voting and, as so-called “jungle primaries” have shown, don’t really eliminate split vote and have resulted in the candidate who would have beaten either of the two runoff winners had (s)he been able to face either of them head-to-head.

      While a conventional runoff is legal in the US, an IRV emulation is arguably illegal because it literally throws votes away. To date, no one has made this argument for unfathomable reasons.

      The ONLY ranked system that will break Duverger’s Law and allow a true multi-party system to arise is the Round-Robin system, better known as Condorcet Voting. It uses the ranked ballot information to match every candidate against every other, like a massive round-robin tournament. Every single ranking/vote by every voter on every ballot is used to produce the result.

      What I stated above is a matter of mathematical fact. Study Social Choice Theory and you’ll see that I’m right. BY DEFINITION the “true majority winner” in a multicandidate race is known as the “Condorcet Winner”. Why doesn’t everyone know this? It’s a mystery to me. Here in Indiana, it appears that no undergraduate in Political Science is exposed to the Marquis de Condorcet, the 18th Century mathematician who gave the name “political science” to his mathematical approach to this enlightenment discipline. Not knowing about Condorcet extends to his voting system.

      If you have jumped aboard the IRV train, it will not take the LP where it wants to go.

      I’m planning on running for Secretary of State in Indiana – I first have to win the GOP nomination. I’ll be running on Condorcet Voting.

      Incidentally, proportional representation (PR) is a lousy system – strict PR helped give the world Adolph Hitler and the Nazis and in 2002, a 10% threshold with PR put the radical Islamists of Erdogan in charge of Turkey with 34% of the vote. The German’s clearly realized the problems with their pre-WW II system and they instituted a 5% threshold (which can have its own problems – see Turkey) for a lower house and voting for individual seats in the upper house.

      I’ve written about some of the above in my 2002 explanation of why I left the LP and joined the GOP:

      This stuff is not complicated but one really needs to educate oneself. IRV is a dangerous non-reform and it will NOT help the LP. Condorcet will give the LP a fighting chance.

      1. It was after Harry Browne lost in 2000 with 0.36% of the vote that we formed the Free State Project. Many of us were LP members, but we acknowledged the duopoly and chose to fight Duverger’s Law with Kobayashi Maru–change the rules of the game. How far we’ve come in 20 years: the annual Porcupine Freedom Festival is peaking today with 2500 attendees–the largest libertarian event of the year.
        Indeed, the ONLY decent ranked method is Condorcet Voting, but it is complicated (like IRV). There is another class of voting methods, based on rating, that are both good and simple. Approval Voting was just in the news, for DeSantis beating Trump in a straw poll:

    3. Ranked voting but only if the round robin/Condorcet method is used. IRV in over a century has failed to produce a robust multiparty system because it actually fails to solve the split vote problem. Even standard runoff will often fail to find the true majority winner.

      IRV, as I keep pointing out is these forums, literally throws votes away. This is ILLEGAL though for some bizarre reason, no one seems to pay attention to this. Strangely enough, the NY Times right after the Dem Primary observed that over 139,000 “exhausted ballots” were discarded out of a little over 900,000 cast and wondered if those ballots might have made a difference in the outcome. Reporters generally are clueless but this person was on the right track. It is absolutely the case that more votes were discarded along the way until the algorithm finally got down to two candidates.

      I quit the Libertarian Party in 2002 because it would not devote any energy to voting reform. There are two viable systems: the best in Condorcet’s round robin system but Approval Voting is pretty good – I talked about both back then.

      BTW, I’m now running for Indiana Secretary of State in 2022 with the goal of getting the state to adopt round robin – at the very least I want to make sure that Indiana never adopts IRV.

  21. Why are you even bothering trying to sell the lie that Jorgensen getting less votes in both absolute and percentage terms than Johnson did 8 years ago? Your man is in the process of defrauding his way to the white house. You don’t have to pretend to care about the LP anymore. And you REALLY don’t need to lie continuously when their performance was abysmal even by their already abysmal standards.

    1. Give Democrats and their propagandist hacks that work at unreason their few weeks to feel good.

      Once Trump vs Biden comes back for Trump, Lefties will be screaming their heads off for Trump seconds term. Maybe they will “impeach” Trump again.

      1. Lovecon is angling for a hot date with Milo, maybe a pity trick?

  22. “You had something in the Jorgensen-Cohen ticket that appealed to anybody, no matter where you were in the party,” says Alex Merced, the L.P.’s former vice chair.“


    The party destroyed its chance this time. Likely irreparably.

    1. Did you know how he got that nickname? He’s a brony and that’s the name of his favorite pony. Not kidding.

      1. True.

        He’s also a Christian wannabe messianic loon.

    2. literally nothing about sucking up to BLM appealed to me.

      But, you know, Republicans are the Culture War co-opters

    3. I have asked Henchman, Knapp and others to resign. It would be nice to go through the list of all who voted with the NSDAP Mises Caucus to wreck the ticket with that illiterate communist anarchist Beethead, and invite each one to resign and maybe be welcomed at CPUSA or the Green party.

  23. Trump On Track To Lose By Even Tighter Margin Than He Won In 2016

    Trump’s victory is really gonna sting Lefties. Lefties really believe the SCOTUS, who are about to be ruthlessly attacked by Lefties, will let Democrats get away with the largest election fraud scheme in US history.

    Trump won recounts and election lawsuits in 2016.

    1. Biden won. Get over it. With a Republican Senate and a Supreme Court that would likely favor Congressional review of executive orders, Biden will start out as a lame duck. Isn’t that the best case scenario for people who supposedly believe in limited government?

      1. M. Stack Overflow ahahaha your hero is a senile old white man and a corrupt prosecutor aahahhaahah

        PARTY OF PROGRESS!!! Aahahahahahaahah

      2. With a Republican Senate

        If Biden wins the senate goes Democratic. It’s the same fraud scheme on both portions of the ballot.

        and a Supreme Court that would likely favor Congressional review of executive orders

        Congressional review of executive orders? Are you fucking drunk, or just incredibly stupid? There is no congressional review of executive orders. And this is a court that decided Obama’s executive orders could not be rescinded by a subsequent executive. Which is irrelevant anyway because if Biden pulls off his fraud scheme, the supreme court will have a minimum of 13 and probably 15 members, 2/3 of which will be appointed by President Harris.

        Keep ringing your uvula with Biden’s wrinkled, flaccid, smegma encrusted pasty white cock though.

      3. Not yet. The presidential vote is on Dec 15. Personally I doubt Biden will make it to the 20th.

        1. Again Ice, why? What does removing Biden gain them? Versus keeping a malleable dementia patient in for as long as possible?

          I do think if he gets inaugurated, he’s gone by early 2023. But not before then.

          1. Part of it is he’s just old and fragile and what’s required for the transition might kill him. The other part is they really want t Harris in and Biden was just a means to that.

            1. They kept RGB alive well past her best by date. I think they can preserve Biden if doing so gives Harris potentially 10 years vs 8.

              Modern medicine is amazing. Not perfect, but amazing.

      4. Funny how Democrats always say “get over it” but never do when recounts and legal actions strips away their election fraud.

        It will be glorious to throw these saved comments back in your face.

        You have to massively shrink government before you can limit it to not grow. Trump was doing that and will continue in his second term.

    2. Lefties really believe the SCOTUS, who are about to be ruthlessly attacked by Lefties, will let Democrats get away with the largest election fraud scheme in US history.

      To be fair, Roberts did deliver them the legal victories they needed to pull this bullshit, especially in Pennsylvania. It’s why they rushed to get that case decided before Barrett was confirmed.

      1. Luckily, Roberts wont have an opportunity to be that swing vote anymore.

        Kavanaugh, Barrett, and Thomas know first hand how horrible the Democrats are.

    3. R.U. just kidding yourself or must the rest of us pretend to be faking reality too? Soooo many suckers… sooo many votes wasted on looter lewsers…

  24. Seriously, it’s gonna take more than positive thinking.

    Lose the lame principles and double down on the good ones, supported by truth.

    What candidate campaigned on the platform that they would tell the truth ABOUT EVERYTHING? US involvement in coups, cover ups and conspiracies. You know, to allow the people in a democracy to make informed decisions.

    They’d probably be assassinated by the establishment.

    Oh well, nowhere to go but up. Haha.

    1. Holocaust denial and Nazism aren’t real popular, Bobby.

      1. Truth doesn’t change to be popular.

        1. Big of you to openly acknowledge your Holocaust denial and Nazism. Usually you lie your ass off and try to pretend you aren’t a Holocaust denier and Nazi.

          Let the record reflect that Rob Misek no longer disputes the characterization that he is a Holocaust denier and Nazi, and in fact has stated the Holocaust denial and Nazism are an eternal truth that remain unbowed in the face of unpopularity.

          Don’t worry, Bobby, I’ll make sure and bookmark this post so that we can reference back to it frequently.

          1. Really, you certainly are a troll.

            I never noticed your cowardly anonymous name before. Were you lurking or have you changed it out of embarrassment?

            1. If you can identify me then the name isn’t really anonymous is it? Also being called a coward by a self-avowed Holocaust denier and Nazi is not really the stinging rebuke you imagine it to be. You know what’s cowardly? Scapegoating minorities, committing genocide against them, and then denying your crimes. You know what’s not cowardly? Putting a bullet through the head of a racist piece of shit Nazi. I’m game whenever you are.

              1. You are an anonymous coward, troll.

                Do you hate Israelis?

                Miko Peled is an Israeli, an author, a public speaker and the son of a famous Israeli general.

                He is also opposed to Israeli apartheid of Palestinians.

                In the following video he puts into perspective the facts that you won’t see in our media.

                Between 38:00 and 45:00 in the video he describes Israeli terrorism.



                1. “Miko Peled is an”

                  Don’t care, can’t imagine why you think anyone would, it’s meaningless and you’re still a Nazi.

                  1. Give it a rest sarcasmic.

                    1. lolz…although he is still a Nazi.

                    2. Seriously, give it a rest sarcasmic.

                  2. You don’t care about anything that doesn’t fit your bigoted worldview.

                    I like to share evidence of truth especially when it makes bigots uncomfortable.

                    1. Naw you’re just Nazi trash.

                    2. Ok sarcasmic/nail

                    3. Do you know that repeating a lie doesn’t make it true?

                    4. Then why do you keep doing it you Nazi fuck.

                    5. Give it a rest sarcasmic.

                    6. If you have any proof that I’m a Nazi, share it.

                      But you don’t. You lie because you don’t value truth.

                      Anyone who demonstrates the truth about you must be a Nazi, your bogeyman trigger, because you’re too stupid to realize that truth, reality is important while lies are meaningless.

                      You are a Kol Nidre loser.

                    7. Your posts are well known, Nazi.

                    8. If you have any proof that I’m a Nazi, share it.

                      We abuse Nazis, conversation for you is over at stormfront.

                    9.  M. Stack Overflow
                      November.8.2020 at 4:24 pm
                      Your posts are well known, Nazi

                      Give it a rest sarcasmic.

                    10. No proof you lying Kol Nidre losers.

                      You call my sharing the truth abuse? You’re delusional.


                    11. No, your posting history is proof.

                    12. Oh dear the Nazi is upset that we won’t play his games.

                    13. Oh dear the Nazi is upset that we won’t play his games.

                      In honor of him

                      I’ll take “Who fucking cares” for $1000 Alex.

                    14. I have proven with logic and science that the false narrative called the “holocaust” could not have happened.

                      I value truth and am not affiliated with your bogeyman Nazi.

                      Refute this or accept that your cherished cash cow narrative is false.

                      One dipshit said they “saw pictures” of burnt bodies from the “ovens”. I asked why there would be anything more than ashes after cremation. Retard sevo said “ it’s called partial cremation dontcha know”.

                      When I asked why anyone would want to make such a mess, coward retardo cut and ran as all troll bigots do.

                      One cited a book as proof of “the holocaust”.

                      “ Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland” is about some polish police who confessed to killing Jews for Nazis as per the narrative.

                      Thing is, none of the police were executed or charged in exchange for their convenient story. That makes their story, as all the others, coerced and inadmissible as evidence in any court of justice.

                      Another regaled us with the story of his gramps who was telling anyone who would listen that his job during “the holocaust” was carrying the dead bodies out of the gas chambers, day after day.

                      The dumb fuck didn’t know that cyanide is absorbed through the skin and his lying gramps would have died on his first day.

                      One Schlomo survivor wrote a book illustrated with pictures of people being dragged out of gas chambers by bare handed and shirtless Jews, who apparently defied science by surviving.

                      When a fundamental aspect of a narrative is demonstrated to be impossible bullshit, as above, the entire narrative is proved to be bullshit.

                      The evidence contained in Nickolas Kollerstroms book, Breaking the Spell, soundly refutes the biggest false narrative in history.


                    15. Ok you’re still upset that we won’t play your games, Nazi.

                    16. I’m laughing at you.


                    17. Then you really shouldn’t be so upset that no one will play your games Nazi.

                      And yet.

                    18. You seem upset Nazi.

                    19. You’re obviously projecting.

                      I’ll keep happily sharing the truth that you can’t recognize much less refute.

                      How does that make you feel?

      1. I think Carter valued his own preachy opinion and world view but never valued truth enough to develop any skill at discerning and basing decisions upon it.

  25. The LP needs to focus on one issue, stopping government from initiating force. The message should be liberty, liberty, liberty and liberty. They need to hammer both Dems and Reps on their violations of liberty it would be so easy. The function of government is to defend liberty, period. The LP must keep on that message.

    1. The LP needs to focus on one issue, stopping government from initiating force.

      Hurrrrr durrrrrrrrrrrrrrr sorry lady but we can’t arrest that guy who raped you, he’s not currently initiating force against anybody durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

      Yeah definitely go with that. That’s nearly as good as endorsing Hillary Clinton in 2016 and the openly Marxist BLM organization in 2020.

      1. Where did you get the idea that someone has to be caught in the act in order for liberty to be defended? That’s really stupid.

        1. Yes, I agree, your premise is incredibly stupid. Thanks for acknowledging the incredible stupidity of your dogma. That’s why I don’t subscribe to your incredibly stupid orthodoxy. You might want to abandon it as well. Or I guess you could just bend yourself into a pretzel trying to pretend that sending armed agents of the state to apprehend, imprison, and possibly kill people is somehow not an initiation of force rather than acknowledging that the state monopoly on violence is an integral part of having a fucking state in the first place.

          1. How demented do you have to be to believe arresting a rapist is an initiatory use of force? The state has a monopoly on the RETALIATORY use of force. Do you know anything at all about libertarianism because it doesn’t seem like you do?

            1. Or I guess you could just bend yourself into a pretzel trying to pretend that sending armed agents of the state to apprehend, imprison, and possibly kill people is somehow not an initiation of force

              And right on cue.

              B-b-b-b-b-but they only initiate force against the people I don’t like! That’s not an initiation of force because it’s retribution for the things I don’t like! Checkmate atheists!

              1. You like rape? Initiating force against another, which rape absolutely is, is immoral because it violates their liberty. The government whose function is to defend liberty has the moral authority to retaliate with force seeing as it holds a monopoly on said force. Your arguments are both irrational and illogical.

                1. No, they initiated force by trying to push the rapist off. The rapist was just having sex peacefully.

                  The whole “initiating force” bit always turns out to be circular. Anybody can always pick a different starting point.

                  1. How do you pick a different starting point for a rape than when the rapist first attacks?

          2. Now THAT’s the Grace Slick I fell for, with Headlights doing the light show in Dallas in 1968! Three years later John Hospers’ “Libertarianism” scorched every moronic premise and “would” assumption the communist anarchists ever came up with. Bitch-slap ’em, Gracie! Send Owsley to get ’em!

  26. Wait, what? There is a libertarian PARTY?

    1. It’s more like a college fraternity than a political party.

      1. Except smaller and less fun.

        1. I dunno, equal parts public nudity at official functions…

    2. Worst party evah!

    3. Yep. That’s the party that wrote the Roe v Wade decision for the Supreme Court to hand down once the electoral votes were finally counted making Hospers and Nathan the first to ever land that kind of vote. Luckily one of the electors had cojones.

  27. With the Democrats’ abandonment of free speech and their embrace of socialism and censorship there is no chance that people who place a high-value on liberty will vote for Democrats in the future. But will they vote for Republicans? Assuming Trump leaves the scene I think it’s likely. Trump was unusually polarizing, in way that e.g. Cruz is not.

    People who place a high-value on liberty are libertarians, but are the Libertarians? Only a trivially small percentage are.

    libertarians are a small but significant group, Libertarians are completely insignificant. The biggest conflict between Republicans and libertarians is the 4th amendment. I think the Republicans are slowly improving their 4th amendment positions. Certainly the Obama administration did nothing to endear 4th amendment supporters to the Democrats. Biden and Harris’ 4th amendment history certainly won’t help.

    1. The biggest conflict between Republicans and libertarians is the 4th amendment.

      No, it is deeper than that.

    2. The conflict between libertarians and everyone else is they’re violation the NAP.

  28. The Libertarian Party is disjointed and has no coherent message. I went to the LP Convention in 2019 in Walnut Creek. The LP members were more interested in passing around a 5lb bag of psilocybin than actually forming a coherent political party. Based on Northern California LP groups, San Francisco specifically, LP members seem to be more anarcho-socialist than a viable political party. I’m considering just registering as Independent because the LP has no direction.

    1. The LP is full of Anarchists and Lefties who are in denial about teaming up with Communist tyrants around election time. They obviously are not happy in their lives, hence more than rare drug use.

      1. You pooor BAYBEE! We need a MAGA wet mop, dry nappie, some Trump butthurt salve & form, and a couple of hits of Orange Owsley for young HarryAnslinger1789 here on aisle 4. Turn on, tune in, take over. That’s the formula, child.

  29. Don’t worry about it: Liz Brown HAS THE NUMBERS!

    1. “THE NUMBERS!”

      Is that what they call the Clap these days?

  30. Democrats preparing themselves for the bad news with Trump’s recounts.

    We’re Heading For Some Recounts. Don’t Expect Them To Change The Outcome.

    Democrats really expected Trump to concede when the Kingmakers in the MSM jumped on the “Biden is president lie”.

  31. I hate to bring up the obvious but if there was actually no voter fraud going on and all Jo Jorgenson votes went to Trump; Trump would be re-elected today.

    In Millions
    GA Biden-2.465 Trump-2.455 Jo-0.061 = Trump-2.51 WIN
    PA Biden-3.355 Trump-3.314 Jo-0.077 = Trump-3.39 WIN
    AZ Biden-1.633 Trump-1.614 Jo-0.049 = Trump-1.66 WIN
    WS Biden-1.630 Trump-1.610 Jo-0.038 = Trump-1.65 WIN
    214 + 16 + 20 + 11 + 10 = 271 (TRUMP WOULD WIN)

    Corrected Spot of Post

    1. If all Joe Biden votes went to Donald Trump it would be a 98% landslide and Trump would be God Emperor for life.

      1. And because Trump isn’t a tyrant-socialist dictation pusher. We’d be a WHOLE H*LL of a lot better off. Your belief in Gov-Gods is but a sure symptom of being a socialist fan.

        ^Sell your soul to the [WE] foundation; because you don’t own you, [WE] own you….

        1. Why the obvious sockpuppet SQRLSY?

    2. That’s the easy way out of this that lets the largest election fraud scheme in US history get swept under the Constitution.

      This is gonna be painful for Americans to watch how Democrats are caught trying to manipulate elections by cheating.

      It’s never just vote then count the vote and presto… winner!

      I guarantee LP voters are gonna be voting for GOP US Senate candidates during 1-2 runoff election Jan 5, 2021 after they appear on Democrat target lists for retribution. Especially once Trump vs Biden is resolved in Trump’s favor.

      Democrats gonna be pissed Af.

    3. And what if all those Jo Jorgensen voters are ok with that?

      1. They should lobby for better state election laws but I’m not seeing any current path to changing one’s vote after the polls are closed.. 🙂

        1. Why the obvious sockpuppet SQRLSY

      2. Then they’re either complete idiots who have no ability to assess the world they live in, or they’re completely lying about the principles they claim to have.

        1. Or they prefer to reveal the fact that neither party is serving their interests.

          Jo Jorgensen got a substantially smaller proportion of the vote compared to GJ four years ago, so there’s plenty of other reasons Biden won while Hillary lost.

          1. Yet in today’s presidential elections – Having a 3rd party is like putting 3-football teams on a football field. It actually doesn’t make a whole lot of sense – If libertarians want their policies they need to run in a primary (regional game) and win before jumping into national championship games. The same reason national championship games only has 2-teams on the field is the same reason our final election only has 2-teams.

            1. Interestingly, every NFL division plays a double round robin to select the division winner. This is understood to be the absolute best way to find the strongest team. Divisions have been kept small enough to make this possible.

              A round robin is also the ONLY SURE WAY to find out in a field of three or more candidates who the actual choice of the voters is. This is simple mathematics. Condorcet showed this nearly 300 years ago. If Condorcet, close friend and correspondent of Thomas Jefferson, hadn’t died in prison in 1794, perhaps his system would have been adopted in the US as our 12th Amendment. Perhaps with Condorcet, the US would have managed to do what every other western nation was able to do: free its slaves without fighting a bloody civil war. (See, for example, Tabarrok & Spector: “Would the Borda Count Have Avoided the Civil War”. The title is somewhat deceptive – it actually looks at who the probably “Condorcet Winner” was in the 1860 4-way Presidential election.)

    4. Awwww… too bad no-knock warrants to shoot dark people and hippies were more important than sinning or having an economy. The Dems were into shooting kids over plant leaves like Joe Biden legislated. But Libertarian spoiler votes covering the gap in 13 states (Matt, take note, 13) moved 109 electoral votes and Billary needed a MAGA wet mop and Trump salve on aisle 6. At least the Dems had sense enough to change their platform planks. Tell Milo how sad and lonely you are, TJ.

  32. Absolutely agree with focusing on local issues and local candidates.

    Also Libertarians could adopt a “clean government” / “government reform” manifesto that neither major party would be willing to touch, because it would disempower either of them. Such as voting reforms & innovation, repealing police state laws, reforming police departments, etc.

    1. Jeff, this is why people laugh at you.

      1. What? Nonsenical and childish suggestions that no one wants totally make sense!

        1. Give it a rest sarcasmic.

        2. Well, my sincere apologies for not posting a 400-page dissertation on any of the above topics. This is an Internet comment board, after all. It was intended to be a starting off point for a broader discussion on the issue among those willing to engage in the conversation in good faith. Since you are just a troll and are not interested in good-faith anything, that obviously does not apply to you.

          1. Well, my sincere apologies for not posting a 400-page dissertation

            It’s ok we know of your intellectual limitations.

            It’s another reason we laugh at you so don’t apologize.

    2. ^Well said chemjeff! Local people for local problems.

      1. Why the obvious sockpuppet SQRLSY?

        1. I’m not a big fan of joining ‘gangster’ arena’s but I’m a big fan of encouraging correct idea’s over faulty ones.

          1. Ok but why the obvious sockpuppet SQRLSY?

            1. Okay troll… 🙂 lol..

    3. Local candidates in Travis County Texas got good vote totals. One LP candidate, Trib Siebold, got NINE TIMES the difference between fascist and commie looters. Erika Lockwood covered the gap in her race with almost four times as many votes as the communist anarchist/Jo Jorgensen ticket. Of the 15 Libertarians running, Spike Beethead dragged Jo Jorgensen’s campaign down to finish DEAD LAST in percentage of the vote gotten (1.46%). Jo was a good candidate, and a Libertarian. Sad.

  33. What’s next? More of the same for the next 50 years, what else?

    1. Why do you keep using this blown sockpuppet SQRLSY?

      1. “Dear Abby” is a personal friend of mine. She gets some VERY strange letters! For my amusement, she forwards some of them to me from time to time. Here is a relevant one:

        Dear Abby, Dear Abby,
        My life is a mess,
        Even Bill Clinton won’t stain my dress,
        I whinny seductively for the horses,
        They tell me my picnic is short a few courses,
        My real name is Mary Stack,
        NO ONE wants my hairy crack!
        On disability, I live all alone,
        Spend desperate nights by the phone,
        I found a man named Richard (Dick) Decker,
        But he won’t give me his hairy pecker!
        Dick Decker’s pecker is reserved for farm beasts,
        I am beastly, yes! But my crack’s full of yeasts!

        So Dear Abby, that’s just a poetic summary… You can read about the Love of my Life, Richard Decker, here:
        Farmers kept refusing to let him have sex with their animals. So he sought revenge, authorities say.
        Decker the hairy pecker told me a summary of his story as below:
        Decker: “Can I have sex with your horse?”
        Farmer: “Lemme go ask the horse.”
        Farmer: “My horse says ‘neigh’!”
        And THAT was straight from the horse’s mouth! I’m not horsin’ around, here, no mare!

        So Richard Decker the hairy pecker told me that, apparently never even realizing just HOW DEEPLY it hurt me, that he was all interested in farm beasts, while totally ignoring MEEE!!

        So I thought maybe I could at least liven up my lonely-heart social life, by refining my common interests that I share with Richard Decker… I, too, like to have sex with horses!

        But Dear Abby, the horses ALL keep on saying “neigh” to my whinnying sexual advances!
        Some tell me that my whinnying is too whiny… Abby, I don’t know how to fix it!

        Dear Abby, please don’t tell me “get therapy”… I can’t afford it on my disability check!

        Now, along with my crack full of yeasts… I am developing anorexia! Some are calling me a “quarter pounder with cheese”, but they are NOT interested at ALL, in eating me!!! They will NOT snack on my crack!

        What will I DO, Dear Abby?!?!?

        -Desperately Seeking Horses, Men, or ANYTHING, in Fort Worth,
        Yours Truly,
        Wasted-Weasel-Wasid / Mary Stack / Tulpa / Mary’s Period / “.” / Satan

        1. I knew it was you Roberta.

        2. lolol sockpuppet confirmed

          1. 100% match for SQRLSY

            1. Shit, I’m one of the few original, independent thinkers around here, and you’re confusing me with hir?!

  34. “incompetent leader who bungled the COVID-19 pandemic”

    Damn, Zach, you’ve actually gotten me to defend Trump. Have you seen the numbers across the globe lately? About the only ones “doing it right” is China which even they call their response overkill. If one person tests positive they lock down giant swaths of the province.

    How exactly do you square libertarian principles with locking down tens of thousands based on one positive test? If Trump bungled it, so did most of Europe which seems to be America’s favorite unrealistic comparison. The reality is we’re pretty much who we are based on where we are, between Canada and Mexico, on most everything except economic output in which case we’ve got one foot on Europe and the other on Asia.

    1. trump’s bungling is undeniable. first, absolutely failing to remove the roadblocks to get testing approved and distributed so we knew what was going on. and second, his absolute idiocy and lack of leadership has half the country pretending masks don’t work and nobody should take any voluntary action.

      the libertarian position is that nobody should be forced to do anything…… that is not the same as encouraging everyone to chose to not do anything. this distinction should not be subtle. saying i don’ want to lock people up for doing heroine is not the same as encouraging them to shoot up. there are and will be people who die because of Trump’s recklessness.

      1. Where exactly in the Constitution is the POTUS given the authority to do anything about pandemics? You’re literally asking him to be a tyrant.

        1. since you clowns seem determined to be stupid, let me say it again…… the libertarian position is that nobody should be forced to do anything…… that is not the same as encouraging everyone to chose to not do anything. what part of that is confusing to you? what part of don’t force anything, but don’t encourage stupidity is beyond your simple mind?

        2. Very good point. If Congress had admitted it was a germ weapon attack, communist initiation of deadly force, that would have brought it under the purview of the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces.

        3. Gee, and here I thought it was the CDC leading the charge to totalitarianism. The misery response to the Communist Chinese Virus comes from the entrenched bureaucracy.

      2. You are rewriting history. Trump was a pathological narcissist but his operation “Warp Speed” was able to short circuit much of the bureaucracy that we were being told at the beginning would take at least a couple of years to get the vaccine out. No other person likely to the President – certainly no Democrat – would have done as well.

        Come on, surely libertarians are aware that the FDA kills many more people than it says. I would expect that most libertarians would know that under the rules that existed in the 1950’s, a vaccine for the Hong Kong flu was developed in 3 months and was being administered to the public almost immediately thereafter. EVEN THE LEFTIST New York Magazine reported we had the vaccine “from the beginning” and even acknowledged that we could have probably had it ready to go in three months.

        Back in 1962 there were two big political issues that came to the fore as the result of the sedative thalidomide. The first was abortion, because thalidomide caused birth defects and a married woman with 4 kids when to Sweden to abort her 5th because she’d taken thalidomide. The second was that the FDA was given vast new regulatory powers.

        There is all sorts of material on this. I think Cato probably has a whole collection of papers on the FDA. If you call yourself libertarian and don’t know about this, please rectify the situation. The FDA has proven to be a horrible, unconstitutional mistake and we’d be better off without it. Trump did about the best job possible under the circumstances. Give the man credit where credit is due.

  35. Anyone ever thought about the possibility that someone could use this comment section to spread malware? I am glad I have a digital condom and stuff, but uhm, injecting code into a comment that will be interpreted?

    1. I will not get myself in trouble for testing anything here.

      But this website might be much less secure than you guys think. I will be outta here now. Might set something up so I can come back safely. Wouldn't really be surprised if a person who has an account name that has to do with computers (think about it) had already tried around here.

      1. And no, that is not the same kind of paranoia as the sock puppet speculations.

        1. You’ll likely enjoy glibertarians. Or, if that’s still extant.

          So you’re saying we might not be as anonymous here as we think? Nardz will be so happy…

          1. thanks will definitely check them out!

          2. Lol.

            We’re all screwed when BidenHarris’s social media gestapo gets started up anyway.

            1. Will those of us with no (anti) social media presence be put into a seperate camp, or just shot?

  36. Jesus fuck, I can’t even tell who is socking as who now.

    What a shitshow.

    1. Yea some loser who clearly has no life is spoofing lots of different handles. Someone was spoofing mine and certainly many others upthread.

  37. Mkay someone’s spoofing my handle on here.

  38. Fullblown “active Communism”, probably.

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  40. I used to think Republicans were less than thrilled at Libertarians draining off votes from their candidates and I hoped maybe it would push them to become more libertarian. However, now after seeing how RINO’s and corrupt pols like Romney/Bush are, I rather think they view it as a feature rather than a bug. These are people fond of “proudly losing” with “dignity”.

    They’re just progressives.

  41. Same as the last election, Pinkie. Libertarians will try to TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!


  43. Jorgensen’s problem is exactly *because* she was pleasant and her campaign was *just* fine. This was NOT the year for pleasant and fine! We needed a bomb-thrower to elbow our way into the fight. This would have been the year for an Arvin Vohra type, to BE controversial, to SAY controversial things. Jorgensen was running as the candidate of the Librarian Party, not the Libertarian Party.

    1. Vorha could not even get reelected within the party…… he is the worst representation of our principles….. throwing bombs just to throw bombs is not how you win people over.

    2. She couldn’t even handle her pedo-light brony running mate with messianic and BLM delusions. He dragged her down and she made no effort to create distance from him, or her leftist staffers.

  44. the problem is not who our candidates are. Jorgensen was a fantastic candidate. our problem is breaking the binary mindset of most voters. there always seems to be this hand wringing after we lose, but we are not losing because of who we run, we are losing because we can’t get enough people to consider a third option to get our candidate on the debate stage.

    mix in a media blackout, and a year where fear of the “other” winning was a major factor for many voters… and that is why we had so few votes….. not because we didn’t run a republican who likes pot, underlining the misconception of who we are…..

    what we need is a more organized and aggressive push like what we saw this year, but could not break through the blackout in the media. we need to make our candidate truly noticed on a national level.

    1. NO. It is the voting system.

      Incidentally, the voting system has the same effect within the GOP and the Dems: it tends to create polar ideologies and any sort of rational center is selected against. IRV does not fix this for reasons I’ve mentioned elsewhere here and numerous times in other threads on REASON.COM.


    Libertarians Spoil the Election
    Jo Jorgensen exceeds Biden’s margin in Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona and Georgia.

    By Walter E. Block
    Nov. 8, 2020 3:34 pm ET

    Did the Libertarian Party throw the election to Joe Biden? Maybe. At this writing nominee Jo Jorgensen’s vote total exceeds Mr. Biden’s margin over President Trump in Arizona, Georgia, Nevada and Pennsylvania, enough to change the outcome.

    In 2000 the Green Party was accused of ruining things for the Democrats. Did Ralph Nader throw the election from Al Gore to George W. Bush? The cognoscenti are still divided, but the 2020 parallels are strong. Probably most Green voters would have gone Democratic if forced into a binary choice. Similarly, on the Libertarian-O-Meter, Mr. Trump scores much higher than Mr. Biden.

    Yes, the Donald is a protectionist, and free trade is the preferred policy of those who favor economic and personal liberty. But when it comes to lowering taxes and easing regulations on business, the party of the elephant is far more closely aligned to the libertarian philosophy than that of the donkey. Mr. Trump has appointed conservatives to the Supreme Court, not libertarians like Randy Barnett, Clint Bolick, Jacob Huebert, Gregory Rome or Brandon Thibodeaux. But supporters of the freedom philosophy prefer judges who adhere to the U.S. Constitution over those who make things up as they go along.

    1. continued from above

      In contrast, Mr. Biden is a puppet in the marionette hands of out-and-out socialists like Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Yes, there are some issues on which libertarians are closer to Democrats, such as Oregon’s decriminalization of heroin and cocaine. But these are few and far between.

      The national Libertarian Party started in 1971, several state parties earlier. In 1969 I had the honor to run for the New York Assembly. My motto was “Disassemble the Assembly.” I didn’t win; I’m not sure my vote total reached triple digits. But I’ve been a staunch member of the party ever since.

      In 2016 physician Donald Miller, historian Ralph Raico and I started a group called Libertarians for Trump. Our advice to libertarian voters was: If you live in Massachusetts or California, strong blue states, vote for Gary Johnson, the Libertarian nominee. The Republicans will lose big there, and your vote for the porcupine won’t help the donkey beat the elephant. Likewise in Louisiana or Alabama, where Mr. Trump was sure to win. But if you live in a purple state, don’t vote Libertarian. It is crucial that Donald beat Hillary!

      I kick myself for not reinstituting this effort in 2019. My thought was that Gary Johnson, a former governor, was well-known and might manage 5% of the vote. He actually registered 3.27%, still more than three times the previous record of 1.06%, set by Ed Clark in 1980. I figured Ms. Jorgenson for 0.25%. She now looks on track to exceed Mr. Clark’s percentage slightly—and hand the presidency to Mr. Biden.

      Pardon me while I beat my head against the wall. How could libertarians in purple states be so stupid?

      Mr. Block is a professor of economics at Loyola University New Orleans.

      1. I just don’t understand the point of blaming the voters. Dr. Block doesn’t seem to be quoting any exit polls that suggest all, most, or even a significant percentage of those voters would’ve voted for President Trump if the LP wasn’t on the ballot. Nor does he seem to quote anything that suggests that these voters were at all predisposed to Trump but for the Libertarian option.

        Complaining about votes cast by thousands of people we don’t know based on assumptions about their potential policy preferences, which we don’t know either, seems pointless. It does nothing to help libertarians, conservatives or small government types, and just comes off as virtual signaling to Republicans that “I’m with you!”

        A very disappointing article from Dr. Block.

    2. I was talking about “democratic voting reform” while a Libertarian in the 1990’s. After the 2000 election, I used Nader as a prime example of why the US needed voting reform. Around 88,000 people in Florida voted for Nader. Polling showed that over 80% of those would have voted for Gore had Nader not been on the ballot. Had they been able to rank candidates, Gore would have won using either IRV or Condorcet. (Note: sometimes IRV will find the true majority winner – just not enough to be a viable system.)

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  47. Start running actual libertarians again and you’ll win back my vote!

    1. if Jo wasn’t libertarian enough for you, you might not understand what that word means.

  48. You ran a self-proclaimed “anarchist” as VP.
    Immediate deal breaker.

  49. Jorgenson was mostly a victim of the election she happened to run in. Most voters were SO INTENT on either electing their favorite or making sure their least-favorite lost that they wouldn’t “waste” their vote (as I did) on their true preference.
    I so hated both Trump AND Biden that I just hauled off and voted my true preference.
    Me and the rest of the 1%.
    It’s NOT a question of her own appeal or campaign.

    1. For me, it was a question of throwing my vote away. Read the link I posted to my 2002 piece on why I left the Libertarian Party. The existence of the LP is a mortal threat to libertarian principles UNTIL THE VOTING SYSTEM IS CHANGED.

  50. What’s next for the libertarian party?

    More irrelevance…that’s all.

  51. Jeremy “Spike” Beethead has a video out about how “we” are not really libertarian for using “their” measures of success. Nowhere does the Communist Anarchist mention the brilliant OPEN BORDERS plank his buddy Knapp burdened us with and Boothead praised, or how Beethead declared from the start that only Anarchists are libertarian. In Travis County Texas, where the LP used to be popular and normally shifts numerous outcomes, that evasive whiner dragged Jo’s vote share down to DEAD LAST. Joe the Henchman and that Mises shill from LA say nothing about that.

  52. Request for factual information. I read this, by Niall Ferguson:

    “Her vote tallies exceed Biden’s lead over Trump in Arizona, Georgia, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.”

    Is that factual?

    1. “Is that factual?”

      What difference, at this point, does it make?

  53. Jorgensen was an uninspiring candidate and all the disadvantages of third party candidates became compounded in the Covid era. She hardly go any air time and her appearances were limited. She may have turned off more center right libertarians by praising BLM.

    But the bottom line is that the nation is becoming increasingly divided and entrenched in tribalism and shift to a third party will now be frowned upon. The United States in which Ross Perot made noise is now but a distant memory.

    The “cut spending and Medicare” libertarian agenda is probably DOA in the Covid era. But resistance to lockdown will become more louder as restrictions ramp up, because unlike faraway wars, Covid restrictions actually impact the American voters directly. To become relevant, the libertarians have to be more actively involved in that fight, even if it means abandoning open borders, which doesn’t make sense in the covid era.

    1. I was thinking the opposite. Libertarians – and other 3rd parties won’t be viewed as crazy extremists relative to a lot of stuff going on in team red and blue. Follow the Constitution and keep the government out of peoples lives doesn’t sound that crazy compared to invading the capital because you don’t believe an election result, or forgiving student loan debt.

  54. $3 billion was spent on the presidential race without considering any “free” media coverage resulting in billions of free advertising. The Libertarian Party needs a billionaire willing to spend hundreds of millions like Mike Blumberg did. Without massive amounts of money, there will be no air time or coverage. Without air time or coverage, no message gets out.

  55. Voters of both parties actually do support many libertarian freedoms. For example: Many women are BOTH Pro-Choice and Anti-Abortion, they oppose abortion but believe that choice is the citizen’s choice (woman) not a male politician trying to win the next election. Neither party includes this libertarian view.

    Most Americans don’t want a European nanny-state model of government. They want the government to protect them primarily from “others” (dangerous people, powerful corporations and unconstitutional government) not to take their freedoms away. Neither party offers this option.

    Both Democrats and Republicans strongly oppose “warrantless domestic spying”. Why is it okay to read our mail, emails and search histories? Our personal information belongs to us, we should be paid to share it if we choose to share it. Neither party supports this view.

    Most voters are opposed to “censorship” that violates the principles of the First Amendment by government or by corporate bureaucracies. Decades ago, Hollywood has already solved this problem with the parental ratings system (PG, R, etc). It empowers “parents”/consumers (citizens) since the First Amendment prohibits censorship by government. Both parties are trying to increase censorship by eliminating Section 230 of Communications Decency Act, commonly called the “Internet’s First Amendment”.

    Maybe we need far more “referendum-voting” where voters themselves can prioritize which issues they support or oppose. There are many popular libertarian issues that neither party is representing.

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