Congress 'Can Regulate Virtually Anything'
How legislators learned to stop worrying about the constitutionality of federal drug and gun laws by abusing the Commerce Clause

Two years after Harvard gave him the boot and three years before Congress banned LSD, Timothy Leary set out on a road trip from Millbrook, New York, in a rented station wagon. The 45-year-old psychologist and psychedelic enthusiast was accompanied by his girlfriend, Rosemary Woodruff, and his two teenaged children, Susan and Jack. They had planned a month-long family vacation in Yucatan, Mexico, after which Leary and Woodruff would stay behind to work on his newly commissioned autobiography. Leary and his companions arrived in Laredo, Texas, on the evening of December 22, 1965, and crossed the international bridge to Nuevo Laredo, Mexico.
At the customs station on the Mexican side of the bridge, Leary recalled in his 1983 memoir Flashbacks, he learned that the visa he needed would not be approved until the next day. That turned out to be the least of his troubles.
"All the grass is out of the car, right?" Leary asked as he started driving the station wagon back across the bridge. Jack had flushed his, but Woodruff said she had been unable to retrieve her "silver box" of pot from her bag because "there were two uniformed porters leaning against the car." Since trying to toss the contraband off the side of the bridge seemed inadvisable, Susan hid it in her clothing.
At the inspection point on the U.S. side, Leary explained that he "didn't enter Mexico" and had nothing to declare. After a suspicious customs agent picked up what looked like a cannabis seed from the car floor near Leary's feet, the encounter escalated into searches of the vehicle, the passengers, and their luggage. A "personal search" of Susan discovered what the U.S. Supreme Court would later describe as "a silver snuff box containing semi-refined marihuana and three partially smoked marihuana cigarettes"—about half an ounce, all told.
Leary claimed ownership of the stash, which earned him a 30-year prison sentence. That astonishingly severe penalty was based on two federal charges: transportation of illegally imported marijuana and failure to pay a transfer tax on the contraband.
Those puzzling charges provide a window on the constitutionally dubious origins of federal drug prohibition, which was smuggled into the U.S. Code disguised as tax legislation. Federal gun control laws followed a similar route, expanding along with conventional conceptions of congressional power.
The Marihuana Tax Act's Double Bind
Leary said he had bought the pot in New York and did not know where it was grown. But the government claimed that he had transported marijuana "knowing the same to have been imported or brought into the United States contrary to law." How did Leary allegedly know that? At his March 1966 trial in Laredo, U.S. District Judge Ben Connally told the jurors they could convict Leary based on either of two legal theories.
Since Leary admitted driving into Mexico with the marijuana and driving back, Connally said, the jurors could conclude that he knew it was "brought into the United States contrary to law." Alternatively, the jurors could assume that the pot Leary obtained in New York was grown in Mexico and that Leary knew that. The statute under which he was charged said possession of marijuana was enough to establish knowledge of its illegal importation unless "the defendant explains his possession to the satisfaction of the jury." That presumption, Leary argued on appeal, violated his Fifth Amendment right to due process.
The other charge against Leary was even weirder. Under the Marihuana Tax Act of 1937, unregistered recipients of cannabis were required to pay, in advance, a transfer tax of $100 per ounce, which would entitle them to a government-issued stamp indicating that the tax had been paid. To complete that process, they had to fill out an "order form." The Internal Revenue Service was required to keep copies of those forms and make them available to state or local law enforcement agencies.
Those requirements put cannabis consumers in a double bind. If they failed to pay the tax, they were committing a federal felony. But if they paid the tax, they were revealing information that could be used to prosecute them under state law. That dilemma did not seem fair to Leary, who argued that the tax demand violated the Fifth Amendment by requiring him to incriminate himself.
In 1969, the Supreme Court unanimously agreed with Leary on both points. The justices overturned his conviction for transporting illegally imported marijuana, noting that it might have been based on an unconstitutional presumption of knowledge. They also threw out the Marihuana Tax Act conviction, saying it violated the Fifth Amendment's prohibition of compelled self-incrimination.
"The class of [marijuana] possessors who were both unregistered and obliged to obtain an order form constituted a 'selective group inherently suspect of criminal activities,'" Justice John Marshall Harlan II wrote in the majority opinion. "Since compliance with the transfer tax provisions would have required petitioner unmistakably to identify himself as a member of this 'selective' and 'suspect' group, we can only decide that, when read according to their terms, these provisions created a 'real and appreciable' hazard of incrimination."
Congress responded to the Court's ruling in Leary v. United States with the Controlled Substances Act of 1970, which among other things flatly prohibited marijuana possession. You might wonder why Congress did not take that straightforward approach to begin with. Why emphasize the possibly foreign provenance of marijuana or create a fanciful tax scheme that notionally required pot dealers and their customers to keep the government apprised of their illegal transactions?
Those indirect approaches were inspired by questions about the constitutionality of federal drug prohibition, questions that Congress took seriously during the first few decades of the 20th century but had stopped asking by the time it approved the Controlled Substances Act. Those doubts explain why the Marihuana Tax Act—like the Harrison Narcotics Tax Act of 1914, which in effect prohibited the nonmedical use of opiates and cocaine—was framed as a revenue measure rather than a ban.
'The Guise of a Revenue Power'
Five years before the Harrison Act, Congress tried to prevent a specific form of opiate consumption by banning the importation of opium for smoking. When Congress considered the Smoking Opium Exclusion Act in 1909, Sen. Joseph W. Bailey (D–Texas) strenuously objected. The bill "is upon its face an effort to suppress the practice of smoking opium," he noted, "and that is clearly a police regulation." It was an "attempt by the federal government through the custom houses to regulate and suppress a bad habit among the people." But "the federal government has no general police powers."
Bailey was not impressed by the argument that Congress was exercising its power to impose and collect duties on imported goods. "The fact that this is a part of tariff legislation could not alter the power of the federal government with respect to it," he said. "In other words, if it is a question that the federal government has the power to deal with, it may deal with it in the way of a tax or in the way of regulation; but the Government has no right to regulate through a tax a matter which it has no right to regulate directly. To levy a tax for the purpose of regulation under the guise of a revenue power is simply to abuse the taxing power of the federal government."
Bailey allowed that the measure might be defended as an exercise of the power to regulate international commerce, based on the premise that opium for smoking, like "diseased meat," is not "in a merchantable condition." But since the ban covered all smoked opium, regardless of its quality, he was skeptical of that rationale, which he suspected was a cover for the law's true aim.
"The nations of the world, which have no government like ours—no divisions and subdivisions which must be respected—have called a conference, and they want to regulate the health and morals of their people," Bailey observed, alluding to the International Opium Commission that was meeting in Shanghai as he spoke. But under the U.S. Constitution, he said, "matters relating to the health and morals of the community are committed exclusively to the states, and in no wise are subject to the control of the federal government."
When Sen. Henry Cabot Lodge (R–Mass.) defended the bill as "a measure of hygiene and protection," Bailey thought that comment proved his point. "If it is a matter of health," he said, "it is not within the jurisdiction of the federal government, and I must object to the consideration of the bill."
Although Bailey's complaint failed to persuade his colleagues, it was grounded in a widely shared understanding of congressional power. "In the early twentieth century," University of Cincinnati historian Isaac Campos notes in an online essay, "drug prohibitions (including alcohol [prohibition]) were understood as being a quite radical intrusion by the state into the personal affairs of Americans. On the federal level such laws were clearly understood to be unconstitutional. This is why the federal laws were tax laws…rather than explicit prohibitions, and this is why alcohol prohibition required a constitutional amendment."
Eventually, thanks to the Supreme Court, the power to "regulate commerce with foreign nations" and "among the several states" would become an all-purpose excuse for pretty much anything Congress wanted to do. But that transformation had barely begun in 1909, when even the legislators who thought the opium bill was constitutional felt a need to dress it up as a tariff measure.
Six years earlier, the Supreme Court had narrowly approved a federal ban on interstate distribution of lottery tickets. Bailey did not think much of that decision, joining the dissenters in viewing the law as an exercise of the police power reserved to the states. Four years after Congress approved the Smoking Opium Exclusion Act, the justices upheld the Mann Act, which made it a felony to "knowingly transport" a woman or girl "in interstate or foreign commerce" for "the purpose of prostitution or debauchery, or for any other immoral purpose."
Both of those cases, however, involved interstate activity. The Supreme Court had yet to read the Commerce Clause broadly enough to allow an outright ban on drug-related conduct that never crossed state lines.
"There are no Federal laws on the growth or use of marijuana, the plant being grown so easily that there is almost no interstate commerce in it," The New York Times noted in 1931. Even Federal Bureau of Narcotics Commissioner Harry Anslinger, who at the time was urging states to ban marijuana cultivation, "said the [federal] government under the Constitution cannot dictate what may be grown within individual States," as the Times put it. And when Anslinger later lobbied for a federal marijuana law—the same law that tripped up Timothy Leary in 1965—it was based on the tax-power rationale that was popular at the time, despite the objections of skeptics such as Bailey.
The Supreme Court had blessed that rationale in the 1928 case Nigro v. United States, which involved a challenge to the Harrison Act. The justices acknowledged that "merely calling an Act a taxing act can not make it a legitimate exercise of taxing power" when "the words of the act show clearly its real purpose is otherwise." But they rejected the argument that the Harrison Act was a transparent cover for exercising police powers that Congress was never granted, deeming the law's official rationale and the "substantial revenue" it raised enough to make it constitutional. That stretch, University of Cincinnati law professor A. Christopher Bryant argued in a 2012 Nevada Law Journal article, qualified as "the most disingenuous Supreme Court opinion, ever."
The Supreme Court's evolving understanding of the Commerce Clause would later render such subterfuge obsolete. That evolution reached a new peak in a 1942 case that involved a crop much more mundane than opium or marijuana.
Too Much Wheat
In 1941, an Ohio farmer named Roscoe Filburn violated federal law by growing too much wheat. Specifically, Filburn sowed 23 acres of winter wheat, a dozen more acres than he had been allotted under the Agricultural Adjustment Act of 1938. The penalty was 49 cents for each of 239 unauthorized bushels, totaling $117.11 (about $2,500 in current dollars).
Filburn refused to pay. The recalcitrant farmer argued that Congress had exceeded its constitutional authority by telling him how much wheat he could grow, especially for his own use on his own property. Since he used the extra wheat to feed his family and his livestock, he said, it never left his farm and therefore was never part of interstate commerce.
According to the Supreme Court, that didn't matter. Five years before, the justices had narrowly upheld the National Labor Relations Act of 1935, ruling that the Commerce Clause reached economic activities, such as hiring and firing practices, that were "intrastate in character when separately considered" if they had "such a close and substantial relation to interstate commerce that their control is essential or appropriate to protect that commerce from burdens and obstructions." The Court extended that logic in the wheat case, Wickard v. Filburn.
When farmers grow wheat for their own consumption, the justices reasoned, their conduct collectively has "a substantial influence" on the interstate "price and market conditions" that Congress sought to regulate. "Even if appellee's activity be local and though it may not be regarded as commerce," Justice Robert H. Jackson wrote for the unanimous Court in 1942, "it may still, whatever its nature, be reached by Congress if it exerts a substantial economic effect on interstate commerce."
That "substantial effects" test was a breathtakingly broad license for federal action, and during the ensuing decades Congress repeatedly invoked it to justify legislation that otherwise would have been blatantly unconstitutional, including the Controlled Substances Act. "A major portion of the traffic in controlled substances flows through interstate and foreign commerce," Congress noted when it passed that law. But even "incidents of the traffic which are not an integral part of the interstate or foreign flow, such as manufacture, local distribution, and possession," it said, "nonetheless have a substantial and direct effect upon interstate commerce."
How so? "After manufacture, many controlled substances are transported in interstate commerce," Congress said. It added that "controlled substances distributed locally usually have been transported in interstate commerce immediately before their distribution"; that "controlled substances possessed [locally] commonly flow through interstate commerce immediately prior to such possession"; that "local distribution and possession of controlled substances contribute to swelling the interstate traffic in such substances"; that "substances manufactured and distributed intrastate cannot be differentiated from controlled substances manufactured and distributed interstate"; and that "federal control of the intrastate incidents of the traffic in controlled substances is essential to the effective control of the interstate incidents of such traffic."
Through the magic of "substantial effects," Congress transformed conduct that was neither interstate nor commercial, including mere possession of illegal drugs, into federal crimes. It no longer had to pretend that it was collecting taxes, and it no longer had to aver that people caught with illegal drugs were knowingly transporting contraband that had been imported from another country.
A 2005 case involving medical marijuana vividly illustrated how far the super-elastic Commerce Clause invented by the Supreme Court could be stretched. The plaintiffs were Angel Raich and Diane Monson, two patients who used marijuana for symptom relief in compliance with California law. Monson grew her own marijuana, while Raich relied on two caregivers who grew it for her. Raich and Monson argued that Congress exceeded its power to regulate interstate commerce when it purported to ban noncommercial production and possession of homegrown cannabis that always remained within a single state.
"Our case law firmly establishes Congress' power to regulate purely local activities that are part of an economic 'class of activities' that have a substantial effect on interstate commerce," Justice John Paul Stevens wrote for the majority in Gonzales v. Raich. He said Wickard "establishes that Congress can regulate purely intrastate activity that is not itself 'commercial,' in that [the commodity] is not produced for sale, if it concludes that failure to regulate that class of activity would undercut the regulation of the interstate market in that commodity."
Like Roscoe Filburn, Raich and Monson "are cultivating, for home consumption, a fungible commodity for which there is an established, albeit illegal, interstate market," Stevens wrote. He perceived a "likelihood" that marijuana produced for medical use in California would be diverted to the interstate market, thereby evading the "closed regulatory system" that the Controlled Substances Act had established.
"While the diversion of homegrown wheat tended to frustrate the federal interest in stabilizing prices by regulating the volume of commercial transactions in the interstate market, the diversion of homegrown marijuana tends to frustrate the federal interest in eliminating commercial transactions in the interstate market in their entirety," Stevens wrote. "In both cases, the regulation is squarely within Congress' commerce power because production of the commodity meant for home consumption, be it wheat or marijuana, has a substantial effect on supply and demand in the national market for that commodity."
Justice Clarence Thomas was dismayed by the majority's reasoning. "Diane Monson and Angel Raich use marijuana that has never been bought or sold, that has never crossed state lines, and that has had no demonstrable effect on the national market for marijuana," Thomas wrote in his dissent. "If Congress can regulate this under the Commerce Clause, then it can regulate virtually anything—and the Federal Government is no longer one of limited and enumerated powers."
'We Will Tax the Machine Gun'
Federal gun control raised similar issues and inspired a similar solution. The National Firearms Act of 1934, the first significant attempt at federal gun regulation, was enacted as part of the Internal Revenue Code. Like the early federal drug laws, it ostensibly was all about raising money for the government and, toward that end, imposed registration and tax requirements, violation of which triggered criminal penalties.
The National Firearms Act was aimed at restricting access to weapons and accessories that Congress viewed as especially dangerous: machine guns, short-barreled rifles and shotguns, and "muffler[s] or silencer[s]." Despite the bill's public safety motivation, it was framed as a revenue measure rather than a crime-control law: an act "to provide for the taxation of manufacturers, importers, and dealers in certain firearms and machine guns," "to tax the sale or other disposal of such weapons," and, in service of those goals, "to restrict importation and regulate interstate transportation thereof."
The law required suppliers of the covered products to register with the local "collector of internal revenue" and pay an annual occupational tax. It also imposed a $200 tax on transfers, which was designed to be prohibitive, amounting to more than $4,600 in current dollars. To facilitate collection of that tax, the National Firearms Act required current owners to register with the Bureau of Internal Revenue and report any subsequent transfers. The law made it a federal offense to carry a covered weapon across state lines unless it was registered.
During House hearings on the bill in the spring of 1934, legislators and witnesses repeatedly invoked John Dillinger, the machine-gun-wielding bank robber who would be killed by federal agents at Chicago's Biograph Theater a few months later. Attorney General Homer S. Cummings also expressed concern about the availability of bulletproof vests to criminals such as Dillinger and wondered "if that could be made a matter of prohibition under some theory that permits the federal government to handle it."
But "of course," Cummings added, "we have no inherent police powers to go into certain localities and deal with local crime. It is only when we can reach those things under the interstate commerce provision, or under the use of the mails, or by the power of taxation, that we can act."
Cummings explained how "the power of taxation" worked in this context: "If we made a statute absolutely forbidding any human being to have a machine gun, you might say there is some constitutional question involved. But when you say, 'We will tax the machine gun,' and when you say that the absence of a license showing payment of the tax has been made indicates that a crime has been perpetrated, you are easily within the law."
Four years later, Congress dispensed with the tax pretense. The Federal Firearms Act of 1938 explicitly sought to "regulate commerce in firearms," and not just incidentally. It created a licensing system for gun manufacturers, importers, and dealers, making it illegal to "transport, ship, or receive any firearm or ammunition in interstate or foreign commerce" without a federal license. The law also relied on the Commerce Clause in a more dubious way, making it illegal for anyone who was "a fugitive from justice" or had been convicted of "a crime of violence" to "receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce." It treated possession as "presumptive evidence" of receipt.
That provision, which Congress expanded in 1961 to cover nonviolent crimes punishable by more than a year in prison, created a precedent for the broad categories of "prohibited persons" established by the Gun Control Act of 1968, which were further expanded by subsequent legislation. The official aim of the 1968 law was to "provide for better control of the interstate traffic in firearms" and thereby "provide support to Federal, State, and local law enforcement officials in their fight against crime and violence."
The law retained the language about receiving a gun supplied through interstate commerce, which on its face would not include a firearm that never crossed state lines. But in 1986, Congress changed that provision to cover possession (not just receipt) of a gun "in or affecting commerce," further straining the already tenuous connection to an enumerated power.
You might think an essentially meaningless phrase like that has no real import. But according to federal courts, such boilerplate is constitutionally crucial.
Magic Words
In the 1995 case United States v. Lopez, the Supreme Court ruled that Congress had exceeded its power to regulate interstate commerce when it passed the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990, which made it a felony to possess a firearm within 1,000 feet of a school. "The Act neither regulates a commercial activity nor contains a requirement that the possession be connected in any way to interstate commerce," Chief Justice William Rehnquist wrote in the majority opinion. "If we were to accept the Government's arguments, we are hard pressed to posit any activity by an individual that Congress is without power to regulate." Rehnquist also noted that the law "contains no jurisdictional element which would ensure, through case-by-case inquiry, that the firearm possession in question affects interstate commerce."
The following year, Congress responded by amending the law, adding "findings" that described "crime involving drugs and guns" as "a pervasive, nationwide problem." It averred that "crime at the local level is exacerbated by the interstate movement of drugs, guns, and criminal gangs"; that "firearms and ammunition move easily in interstate commerce and have been found in increasing numbers in and around schools"; that "ordinary citizens and foreign visitors may fear to travel to or through certain parts of the country due to concern about violent crime and gun violence, and parents may decline to send their children to school for the same reason"; and that "violent crime in school zones has resulted in a decline in the quality of education," which "has an adverse impact" on interstate and foreign commerce.
The new version of the law also specified that its restrictions applied only to "a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce." As Congress saw it, however, even a gun that is made and sold in the same state where it is possessed "affects interstate or foreign commerce," given the cumulative impact that bringing guns into school zones has on "a pervasive, nationwide problem."
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the 8th Circuit thought Congress had cured the problem identified by Rehnquist. Because the law "contains language that ensures, on a case-by-case basis, that the firearm in question affects interstate commerce," the appeals court ruled in 1999, it is "a constitutional exercise of Congress's Commerce Clause power." The U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit concurred in 2005, noting that "incorporating a jurisdictional element into the offense has traditionally saved statutes from Commerce Clause challenges."
Congress, in short, initially forgot that it was supposed to be regulating "interstate or foreign commerce." But after the Supreme Court reminded it, the invocation of that phrase was enough to fix the law, even though nothing of substance had changed.
As a pretext for federal legislation, the Commerce Clause has proven much more flexible than the Taxing Clause. The current understanding of it has soothed the misgivings that members of Congress once felt about exceeding their constitutional constraints. They have learned to stop worrying and love that balm.
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transportation of illegally imported marijuana and failure to pay a transfer tax on the contraband
Uh....What now?
Catch-22, heavy on the Reality Control.
"Those indirect approaches were inspired by questions about the constitutionality of federal __everything__ prohibition, questions that Congress took seriously during the first few decades of the 20th century ***but had stopped asking*** by the time (FDR - Democrats) approved the Controlled Substances Act."
Yes; FDR - Democrats. The government was a [D]-trifecta.
FDR and the Democrats KILLED the USA.
Last decade they proudly initiate [Na]tional So[zi]al[ism] in its place.
Didn't try to hide it at all; flat out took pride in their socialist views.
Indeed. And nowadays, which party is more likely to support cannabis legalisation?
Which party platform wants even more massive regulations and control of markets? Even energy?
How else can the save (D)emocracy?
Yes. The Democrats want to regulate economic affairs, the Republicans, social.
BTW do you think that Project 2025 represents the Republican platform, by and large?
Lol shrike. Which party screams disinformation and misinformation then demands social media censor others, works with advertisement boards to not fund the other party.
It is amazing how partisan and stupid your claims are.
Yeah. Saying let everyone talk is totally regulation of society. Youre the type who calls the culture war when someone pushes back against the left.
God damn shrike. Fucking hilarious.
Not like we get LGBT forced on people. The entire threats against those not wanting covid vaccines. Forcing bakers to make cakes. Arresting pro life protestors. Sending the FBI against moms talking at school boards. Trying to force books with pictures of blow jobs and qr codes for grndr onto 3rd graders.
Fuck youre dumb.
Still not shrike, you lying cunt.
You're just another white grievance warrior who thinks that granting rights to people not like you removes your rights. "But I've always had the right to swing my fist regardless of where your nose begins".
What in my statement was wrong shrike? Youre the one pushing bog standard narratives without thought here lol.
You treat leftist bumper stickers as truth.
Let's confine rights to things we can do without interference, and not to free stuff. And let's then focus on equal rights, and not special privilege and support for protected classes.
And then let's shrink government and get rid of the nanny state. Oh, and be sure to tell people they have no "right" to a life without sadness or stress.
What, are you some kind of crazy libertarian, or something?
LGBT forced on people
Can't let those uppity gays act too "flamboyant" in public. Their gayness might rub off onto your children and then suddenly your kids are gay!
...and what the left means by 'act'-ing 'public' is 'government' legislated/mandated.
Don't kid yourselves. There was never legislation against being lesbian, gay, bisexual or anything else. It's always been nothing but a [WE] identify-as gang trying to legislate the world to their whims.
Yes. The Democrats want to regulate economic affairs, the Republicans, social.
That is absolutely incorrect, and demonstrably so. This isn't the early 90s, dude. Get with the program. The left's desire to control social affairs is all-consuming. Yes, the Republicans don't like abortion, but there's more to the political zeitgeist than clumps of cells.
which party is more likely to support cannabis legalisation?
The Republicans?
https://www.marijuanamoment.net/watch-mitch-mcconnell-frolic-in-a-field-of-cannabis/
That article is about hemp. From your article:
While the majority leader is one of the biggest champions of hemp, he’s not a fan of marijuana, which he calls its “illicit cousin.”
lol what a self-own
Hemp is cannabis, you fantastic retard. Not only is it the same cannabis family, it is literally exactly the same species as as the breeds that have been developed to provide THC. Cannabis sativa. "Marijuana" was bred from "hemp".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_sativa#Uses
SRG didn't say "marijuana", he said "cannabis". I didn't say "marijuana", I said "cannabis".
Cannabis for hemp has been under all the same restrictions as cannabis for THC since the sixties. And only now are the restrictions for both being loosened.
Go be stupid, dishonest and ignorant somewhere else.
Go be stupid, dishonest and ignorant somewhere else.
But who would pay any attention to him there?
There are two definitions of 'cannabis'.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cannabis
In context, it seems rather clear to me that SRG2 was referring to cannabis the drug, not cannabis the plant (hemp) which has been legal ever since 2018. If SRG2 was referring to hemp, it would seem nonsensical for him to refer to 'cannabis legalization' as a party platform statement, since hemp is already legal.
Unsurprisingly, you're trying to lawyer and weasel your way out of admitting you posted an article that you didn't read, discussing McConnell singing the praises of hemp but explicitly rejecting support for legal marijuana.
I'm not trying to lawyer anything.
I said cannabis, SRG said cannabis, the wiki article says hemp is cannabis, the original cannabis no less. Nobody said "marijuana", nobody said "weed", nobody said "hashish", nobody said "Acapulco Gold".
It was "cannabis", and the US didn't just ban the THC varieties. It banned the Hemp varieties as well. Cocaine Mitch is one of the many Republicans who pushed to legalize hemp cannabis. They were the ones pushing for cannabis legalization.
You're the one trying to lawyer by saying "Yes, but look" and then ignoring your own fucking first definition that says it's hemp.
I'm sick of your stupid, dishonest, ignorant horseshit here constantly.
And which party has botched said "legalisation" to the point that the black market is even more attractive?
Did you know the 176? Stamp Act cost more to implement than its projected full-compliance revenue? It was known in Parliament even while passing it.
And the troops it supported were supposedly there to keep the French out, even though they had just won the Seven Years War and driven the French out of North America. Of course the troops were really there to keep the colonists from crossing the Appalachians.
Perfect statist legislation -- runs at a loss and they have to lie about its real purpose. 260 years, and they haven't learned a thing.
You and your ilk are a perfect example of why I have 100% faith in government incompetency.
The double standard at work:
If Republicans make a baby step towards liberty, even if it's done stupidly and/or for the wrong reasons, we are exhorted to heap praise upon them despite the flaws, because after all, progress is progress, right?
But if Democrats make a baby step towards liberty, even if it's done stupidly and/or for the wrong reasons, we are to condemn them for their stupidity and bad reasons, and condemn them for not going far enough.
Yes, the places where marijuana has been legalized, it's tended to be done in a way with far too many taxes and regulations. But on the whole, having legal marijuana is better than having illegal marijuana. They deserve credit for finally coming around to the fact that marijuana isn't "the devil's weed", even if they aren't embracing a free market in pot.
You're the expert, so it must be true.
If it weren't for double standards Lying Jeffy wouldn't have any.
The Libertarian Party? The one we used to send money to before it was invaded by Alabama and the AfD?
https://x.com/uberboyo/status/1812521886074409393?t=xXug6dGs248738YmjFt0nw&s=19
Kyle Rittenhouse shot randomly into an left wing mob and killed a convicted pedophile
An assassin shot randomly into a MAGA crowd and killed a productive middle class fireman with kids
The educated high priests think this “plebeian fireman” deserved to get killed
What did these people think of the Kyle’s “noble” casualties?
"Kyle did not shoot randomly, he was being chased down. Be better."
Yes fair point - I mean the bizarre odds that the random assailants he confronted had pedophile convictions
https://x.com/CovfefeAnon/status/1812477788189753792?t=dISz1CSftn5v6iKs-Xq85g&s=19
Remember this about them when they attack anyone who isn't part of the progressive cult for *not caring*
"You don't *care* about "
etc.
A completely innocent man has his life ended for nothing and *this* is their reaction - THEY DO NOT CARE - they don't care about any of it - pretending to care is a way they use it against you
"@TheOmniLiberal
A person in a crowd cheering for and supporting a traitor to this country caught a stray? I’m so sad, please."
[Link]
https://x.com/KyleSeraphin/status/1812494628563673195?t=ldjHZytDyyE8zVta1hO-Mg&s=19
Jenna Howell, an @FBI employee who works in the NICS firearms background check unit, posted her disappointment @realDonaldTrump survived an assassination attempt. Jenna has a Top Secret clearance.
This is a typical #FBI support employee. And she hates gun owners.
The National Instant Criminal Background Check System is a background check system in the United States created by the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993. The act was named for James Brady - who was wounded in an assassination attempt on Ronald Reagan. Ironic?
Jenna is a typical “pro-Palestine,” rabid “LGBTQIA+ ally,” and hater of conservatives across the board. She is confrontational and insulting to veterans with total impunity. The @FBI culture encourages and empowers these low level Leftists.
[Link]
"In 1969, the Supreme Court unanimously agreed with Leary on both points. The justices overturned his conviction for transporting illegally imported marijuana, noting that it might have been based on an unconstitutional presumption of knowledge. They also threw out the Marihuana Tax Act conviction, saying it violated the Fifth Amendment's prohibition of compelled self-incrimination."
In other words, in 1969, when MJ was becoming popular/accepted among the cool kids, the liberal Supremes* found a way to let him get away with it.
* just as 4 years before, just by amazing coinkidink as "free love" was becoming popular among the smart set, they had invented a "right to privacy" that forbade any laws against contraceptives. https://www.oyez.org/cases/1964/496
WHCA president on why dem media doesn't use the term assassination attempt.
Kelly O'Donnell
@KellyO
Our reporting guidelines require that we not use that term until law enforcement describes it as an assassination attempt if/when the investigation supports that designation. It is a measured approach for accuracy. There will be plenty of time to go further as needed.
Fatass Donnie is a loser. I like people who weren’t shot or captured. He is no hero. He ducked then laid out like a stuck pig.
Hey shrike. You seem angry your pussy allies are bad shots. Quite a lot of leftist X trends last night.
https://x.com/TheBrandonMorse/status/1812261757479506310
Maybe instead of just buying offices, soros needs to fund some gun range time.
But please tell us how you’re not a leftist Democrat again.
Personally, I would prefer they remain incompetent with -- and afraid of -- weapons.
Assassination? No it wasn't. That nigga got shot!
(h/t Chris Rock) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95nSxFSA3NU
You're not going to call him a "lawn jockey" or a "shine boy", this time?
Multiple dem state reps continue to use rhetoric that likely led to the assassination attempt.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/campaigns/state/3081471/democratic-lawmaker-chides-sympathy-for-the-devil-trump-shot/
This is not a partisan issue. Anyone who says otherwise is a useless idiot.
Hey dummy. Which party is threatening impeachment of justices over undoing Chevron, one of the many decisions since Wickard that grants executive regulatory agencies wide power? Which party platform promises more regulations while the same party screams about platforms reducing regulatory posture?
This is a nice retarded attempt at both sides to cover for your team though.
Speaking of useless idiots.
Speaking of idiot leftist. Notice you can't actually make an argument desperation in yelling both sides. Lying about muting people.
Good work buddy. Jeff is upset you didn't defend him in the Trump shooting thread. I'm sorry for your loss of head pats.
Correction, make that delusional useless idiot.
Lol. The only delusion here is you have anything intelligent to say and are the one true libertarian.
Blah blah blah.
Wow! A snappy retort.
We get it. The DNC memo went out. You have to both sides harder. Lol.
Whats amazing is youve spent months with the rhetoric of Trump being Hitler. You must be so proud.
"Speaking of useless idiots."
Speaking of lying drunks.
Ad hominem much?
The Argument from Intimidation has been redrafted by Mormon child-saver
Warren JeffsMatt Loesby to read as follows: "God Bless you; everyone outside an ideologically captured fringe recognizes that government owns all kids." This was used in 1980 to get Libertarian platform vandals to assure delegates that banning child prostitution is statist. The resulting plank was then used to assure voters that "Libbetarians" needed to be strung up for getting government goons to stop parents and doctors from fighting kiddie prostitution. Stammering Zack and Squeaky Fromme 2 pulled the same stunt on Chase Oliver, who saw through it.Donald Trump rally shooter was registered Republican; would have voted for first time in November
Read more at: https://www.deccanherald.com/world/donald-trump-rally-shooter-was-registered-republican-would-have-voted-for-first-time-in-november-3105109
Heard he was a Nikki Haley delegate. (Not confirmed as of yet)
Heard that Susan Collins plans to write in Nikki. Know what that means?
That people in Maine are retarded. Haley already released her delegates.
Hey retard. He donated to Act Blue and Biden.
https://x.com/kylenabecker/status/1812354336531378655
https://x.com/kylenabecker/status/1812357133075153332
Since 2015 dems in Pennsylvania encouraged democrats to register as GOP in the close party state to mess with their elections. You should know this as you applauded it in 2019 with the senate races.
Colorado Democratic operatives did the same thing in multiple election cycles, telling their minions to register (R) and vote in primaries for the most MAGA candidates, with the hope that they will be easier to beat in the general elections.
Definitely better for (D)emocracy than democracy.
IIRC, conservative huckster Fat Rush Limbaugh (Praise Be Unto Him) popularized crossover rat-voting with his Operation Chaos in 2008 with the Hillary-Barack stratagem (failed by the way).
Trump Defense applies here: Democrats did it first and worse so that makes it ok.
And there it is. Make excuses for democrats with broad both sides defenses. Never criticizing a dem. Always excuses. Lol.
Your party's rhetoric is responsible for this, Sarckles. Are you ever going to apologize for the role you've played in trying to inflame other Democrats, by constantly regurgitating DNC lies?
No. He will continue he never said these things, that he is the true sentence. Sure his rhetoric aligns with the worst of the corporate left media. But that's the true center on his mind.
Why would he apologize for something he's proud of?
So then, party registration might not mean anything, right?
Gonna withdraw your first comment?
That is a thing that happened. Doesn't make it right.
I have no problems with crossing over to vote for who you think would do the best job. If you vote for someone who would do a *worse* job because you think they're easier to beat, you're actively making the country worse.
And it backfired on Hillary in 2016.
And she and most Democrats will never, never, never get over that. And will always feel entitled to use any means necessary for revenge.
95% of all Kleptocracy voters (some 63% of those eligible to vote) plunk for senile looters because they imagine winning is helping this (not that) faction to rob them. So a fool votes for the girl-bulliers. They take office and arrest the doctor for trying to save his daughter's life. She dies BUT HE THINKS HE WON because the moron he was duped by got the gubmint job. I voted for Gary and Bill. Four million women and druggies did same to keep from being jailed by Hillary or Trump. She got beat, and those laws went out the same window as Fatass Donnie and his Bund. We 4 Million WON.
That was the year G Waffen Bush asset-forfeiture looting exceeded all burglaries. Mortgage-backed securities on confiscated homes tanked, the economy collapsed, God's Own Prohibitionists got tossed out on their sore ear and the Klan had to watch Obama get inaugurated... TWICE!
I remember that. The Republican talk radio guys were urging their listeners to do the same thing.
Aren't you literally right above talking about excuse making with they did it first? Lol.
Yes, the drunken fucking hypocrite can't remember his own trolls from five minutes ago.
That may be. And it is one reason why primaries shouldn’t exist. Parties should do their internal business via caucuses. And not paid for by the state
Anyone who has ever caucused knows that you can’t flood the caucuses from outside because your neighbors know you and you can’t be anonymous in a caucus
The people don’t need to vote for the candidates. Let the experts decide.
You don't even know what a caucus is do you
Dems also registered to join caucus votes dumdum
You've never been to a caucus either have you
So youre wrong yet again. And you throw anything you can to protect your ignorance. Lol.
Arizona doesn't caucus retard.
For example Iowa.
Only registered Republicans may participate in the caucuses and only in their designated home precincts. However, Iowans may register or change their party affiliation on caucus day.
https://apnews.com/article/how-iowa-caucus-works-2024-democrats-republicans-592ab40b9b9b948c0540f2cf132bab5c
And yes democrats did that you retarded fuck.
Well obviously you’ve never caucused because you don’t understand the salient fact about them. It is not about registering party. It is about spending hours – in the presence of your neighbors – talking about local politics/organization -where the beauty contest vote for prez is irrelevant except for the media
And you think that Ds told activists (the only people who will spend hours) to go help the Rs organize in their neighborhood. Moron
What you are doing is switching your argument after showing to be retarded lol. Here is the thing. Political activists who will change their registration for the team will suffer those hours for a political outcome you retarded fuck.
Why can you never admit you are just a fucking moron who knows nothing?
You have no clue what you are babbling about. It does serve to confirm one prejudice I have about caucus v primary states. Voters in primary states are complete morons and manipulable sheep precisely because they don't know what is really happening during election season.
You don’t even know what a caucus is do you
Sure, other people who want to make decisions for me.
Pass.
.
Most succinct comment ever.
One of Jesse's best and possibly his only comment without a blatant lie in it.
Cite?
Funny how all of you not a leftists use the same bald assertions while claiming to not be a team. Lol.
Yup.
Shrike won’t. Example of a lie? Or should i Google it?
You two dishonest fucks are the last two people... well Jeff... last three people to be calling other's liars.
Probably like, three and a half people if you're including Cartman.
I muted that lewser MAGAt the day the button came out, so no big loss...
Congress has one constitutional authority that can and must encompass virtually unlimited areas of scope. That is the explicit authority of Congress to prescribe the ways in which states cooperate among themselves via an interstate compact (Article 1, Section 10, Clause 3).
Importantly, this does not involve the executive branch since it is the states themselves that execute the interstate compact. No federal mandates, no bureaucracy, no Prez politicking, no expansion of DC overreach.
I don't understand why we don't organize more along the lines of interstate compacts if the goal is to limit the size of the federal government. It is the executive branch that has grown well beyond its enumerated authority of Art1
The expansion of executive power is a direct result of Congress writing laws that delegate away their power under the guise of interstate commerce while the Courts stand by and let it happen.
They are aided by partisan voters (useless idiots) who see their role as increasing their party’s power, not realizing or caring about the long term results. Everyone who supports the duopoly is to blame.
And your precious both sides democrats were outraged when Chevron was overturned.
Actually shocked you aren't celebrating a Trump judge making bathtub vodka legal after all your promotion of the amazing Jimmy Carter. Weird.
When you attack anyone who blames both sides you defend the duopoly.
Your hatred for Democrats makes you an unwitting shill for the duopoly.
You are too dishonest and dumb to see it. And you never will because you will never agree with someone you hate. So petty. Like a teenager.
Oh the fucking irony.
You both sides when democrats are being criticized. You bring in Trump when democrats are being criticized. You do no such thing when the right is being criticized.
Who do you think is dumb enough to not notice your behaviors sarc? I mean besides yourself. Youre fully deluded. Lol.
It is a standard playbook of your team. Wr have media outraged Trump isnt toning down rhetoric after he was shot despite the media pushing your favorite Trump Hitler end of democracy narratives for months.
This is why you tell people to Google your bald assertions. Which is hilarious to hear from someone claiming to be a centrist with all the evidence of Google manipulating rankings for dem corporate media and detailing opposing voices. Youre just too dumb to understand your own behaviors lol.
I dont know a single centrist who still uses Google or refuses to actually cite the data behind their assertions. You do both.
I mean you’re mirroring Pelosi for fucks sake lol.
Nancy Pelosi
@SpeakerPelosi
·
Follow
As one whose family has been the victim of political violence, I know firsthand that political violence of any kind has no place in our society. I thank God that former President Trump is safe.
political violence of any kind has no place in our society
Do you agree with Pelosi here?
Yes, I’m glad trump is safe.
Too bad Pelosi doesn't agree with Pelosi on political violence.
“I just don’t know why they aren’t uprising all over this country“ - Pelosi
Weasel words because your assassin missed the brain by millimeters.
She would have used the exact same words to excuse her party if the shooter didn't miss Trump. Same with Jeff. They want the action to have been a success and then hide behind false words after the fact.
Whats extra amusing is jeff. Sarc, and shrike will all pretend to like Millei. Millei has been raging on Twitter since the attempt regarding the lefts rhetoric.
ML, even if you don’t think Pelosi believes those words sincerely, do you?
political violence of any kind has no place in our society
Fuck you with your questions.
Screams of amnesty don't work, so back to sea lioning. Jeff will never find fault with the words or actions of the left.
Covid authoritarianism? The left meant well, amnesty!
Government induced censorship? They were just using government free speech. Amnesty!
Kill an unarmed woman? They were trespassing. Amnesty!
BLM riots, fires, murders? Mostly peaceful, a few went to far. Amnesty!
Assassination attempt against Trump? Well they sent a dingle tweet saying it was bad. Amnesty!
ML, even if you don’t think Pelosi believes those words sincerely, do you?
Not sure what you're trying to say here, but you and Pelosi have wanted Trump in prison or dead since the moment he ran against Hillary.
she chose her words ‘reluctantly and strategically’
It is meaningless after her rhetoric from even last week. This is another example of a Democrat pretending their past statements don't exist. Something you and other democrats do constantly.
Her statement is to excuse her own past rhetoric. Just like you were doing yesterday. You want everyone to forget your actions and words that lead up to this shit.
Just like you did with the scalise shooting.
It is meaningless politicking so it has no actual value. Saying this shit after the fact and the opposite before the fact is meaningless.
This is why people think you're a big standard leftist. You think words can excuse action and behaviors when caught.
Said by many yesterday jeff, youre human garbage. Nobody believes your false sympathy done solely to make excuses for your past words. You, along with sarc, have been building the rhetoric up for months. You dont get to yell amnesty after the fact. So fuck off.
Even if you don't think Pelosi believes those words sincerely, do you?
political violence of any kind has no place in our society
Have i ever advocated for violence jeff? Being a fucking weasel isn't an argument. Her words are meaningless after as recently as last week using rhetoric that built up to this point. Words you mirrored then as well.
Do you agree?
A simple yes or no will do.
Do you agree with those words? Yes or no?
Jeff. Have I ever advocated for violence? Yes or no?
When I ask you about pedophilia it is because I have examples of you defending it.
When I ask you about migrant rape it is because I have examples of you defending it.
You dont have examples of me defending violence unless in response to clear violations of the NAP and self defense.
What you are doing is being dishonest.
So cite your concern instead of your sophist lie.
Your team tried to take out a political opponent. Ful stopf. You've endorsed and pushed the rhetoric behind this you've advocated for your political enemies to be locked up.
You dont have an out here. You and your team are no better than most authoritarian regimes.
If you don't advocate for violence, then why is it so hard for you to say "yes, I agree with Pelosi's statement here"?
So just to be clear. You think I am responsible for the Trump assassination attempt?
Idiot.
You really are fucking retarded arent you jeff. I said the lefts rhetoric. Just like with scalise. Rhetoric you’ve been pushing non stop. Examples like:
So since at least 2016 there has been a parlor game among Leftist celebrities and entertainers joking (one hopes), dreaming, imagining, and just talking about the various and graphic ways they would like to assassinate or seriously injure Trump:
.
By slugging his face (Robert De Niro), by decapitation (Kathy Griffin, Marilyn Manson), by stabbing (Shakespeare in the Park), by clubbing (Mickey Rourke), by shooting ( Snoop Dogg), by poisoning (Anthony Bourdain), by bounty killing (George Lopez), by carrion eating his corpse (Pearl Jam), by suffocating (Larry Whilmore), by blowing him up (Madonna, Moby), by throwing him over a cliff (Rosie O’Donnell), just by generic “killing” him (Johnny Depp, Big Sean), or by martyring him (Reid Hoffman: “Yeah, I wish I had made him an actual martyr.”).
New republic with Trump as Hitler. End of democracy. Etc etc.
Youre team was all over twitter dissapounted the shooter missed for fucks sake.
I gave you clean examples yesterday and you are back to excuse making and denials of your teams rhetoric leading to actions.
Houston shooter killing 5 cops due to BLM.
Scalise being shot due to Maddow.
You dont get to pretend this shit was never said and never happened. Youre a lying piece of leftist shit.
Youre garbage jeff.
The fact you made excuses for a migrant gang raping a minor not getting jail time because he felt bad is more proof of it. The left is never guilty of anything in your view.
So you do think I am responsible, at least with my supposedly violent rhetoric (which you cannot find any examples of, natch), for the Trump assassination attempt. Duly noted.
I'll remember this next time there is some right-wing violence. I'll be sure to throw plenty of blame on you and your pals.
I’ve bookmarked this thread for next time you claim to be arguing honestly lol. I’m being very fucking clear. Youre attempting to be a shit weasel, and doing a good job of it.
I’ll remember this next time there is some right-wing violence. I’ll be sure to throw plenty of blame on you and your pals.
Like when you tried blaming me for PoC and immigrants beating up LGBT just 4 days ago? Lol. Retarded fuck.
Even here you can't condemn the rhetoric you participate in. Yet tomorrow you'll deny you're a leftist. Truly an amazing piece of shit. Lol.
By your standard of tribe-based collective guilt, you ARE guilty for anti-LGBTQ violence. That is your standard pal.
I mean, if you are going to try to blame me for the Trump assassination attempt, then I guess you are responsible for the violence and murder at Charlottesville in 2017. And the violence on Jan. 6, 2021. And the El Paso Walmart shooting in 2019. And the murders at the Wisconsin Sikh temple. And a whole lot more violence committed by "your tribe" due to all of the anti-foreigner rhetoric that your team puts forth. That's the standard you now want to live by, right?
Jeff, as others told you yesterday youre not actually intelligent. You think you are, but that is simply another lie you tell yourself. You think you are intelligent with these rhetorical games, but it only works on other idiots like sarc.
So let me be clear. Youre a dumb sack of leftist garbage.
One Pelosi gets hammered on the head by an anarco-MAGAt, and the other one proceeds to become dumb enough to think Biden drooling all over his chin is a sign of mental acuity. We need a MAGA patriarch with no medical training to explain that.
It's always hammer time in her house
As I said, you and people like you are the problem. You equate criticism of your team with support for the other team because you literally can’t imagine someone opposing both sides of the duopoly. You bring up centrism because you only see left and right. You hate libertarians because you can’t comprehend them. So you attack them calling them leftists when they criticize your team. The result is the perpetuation of the duopoly by people too stupid, ignorant and hateful to see it. People like you.
Keep denying your obvious to everyone behaviors. Maybe your denial will end up making them see what they don't observe lol.
Watching you cry as people call put your obvious defense of the left while calling everyone you hate Forever Trumpers is fucking hilarious.
Keep defending the duopoly.
Half your days here is running defense for democrats dumbass.
You are the one defending the deep state. Youre the one defending lawfare. Youre the one defending political violence. Youre the one who only props up the LPe to hurt Republicans.
Everyone here sees it. Even jeff. Which is why he tries to convert you. Lol.
Nobody is dumb enough to buy your delusions of you being the one true libertarian except you. Which is pure irony.
I’ve defended none of those things. Your delusional. And dumb.
I no longer think you are a liar.
You are sincere. And really fucking stupid.
The expansion of executive power is a direct result of Congress writing laws that delegate away their power under the guise of interstate commerce while the Courts stand by and let it happen.
Congress has delegated so much power to the executive because the President is the de facto head of his party. That means that a Congress controlled by the President's party is going to want the President to have greater authority. And once the President has it, an opposition Congress won't be able to take it back.
In addition, the federal judges and justices appointed by the President of a particular party are going to "stand by and let it happen" when the extra power is used to fulfill the policy priorities of that party. They'll only oppose it when the policy implicated goes against their party. And, as I note below, the judiciary will work to take authority for itself to make policy decisions when the political branches are too paralyzed to do the "right thing."
Of course, I am generalizing a great deal here, as there will be some people in these positions with some integrity and constitutional awareness. (Maybe? I hope?) But this hypothesis would explain a lot of what we observe.
And once the President has it, an opposition Congress won’t be able to take it back.
This is the real dilemma. It would take a veto-proof majority in Congress to take power away from the executive branch at this point. Good luck with that.
They delegate power to the executive because it allows them to avoid responsibility and get reelected. They are only looking ahead to the next election. They really don’t care about the consequences of the laws they write. Power is an end, not a means.
That too, of course.
Interstate compacts can easily be imagined as the (or a) means by which Congress can regulate interstate commerce.
The origins of federalizing/bureaucratizing anything re interstate commerce were - railroads. States were trying to regulate them and break up trusts and monopolies and such. Obviously meaning - states were interested in agreeing how to deal with that industry which went across state lines. The authority to do that is entirely legal - but absent an interstate compact, they can only do things as a single state.
The railroads wanted to jurisdiction shop. It's easier to buy 30 Senators and one House than to buy 30 state legislatures. So they got the SC (Wabash St Louis and Pacific Railway v Illinois) to order that specific stuff being done by Illinois was unconstitutional for rather wonky reasons.
Force it to be done by the feds (the Interstate Commerce Commission) - with legislation written to exclude the states from anything - and make sure whatever legislation IS written is written at the behest of the railroads. Hey presto - the railroads now have an entire bureaucracy to do their bidding and no noodgy states with any authority to defy the railroads.
Obviously libertarians aren't interested in interstate compacts. But then again - they aren't and can't accomplish anything smaller government because they are simply ideologues (or corrupted in some cases) who don't do process.
As a pretext for federal legislation, the Commerce Clause has proven much more flexible than the Taxing Clause. The current understanding of it has soothed the misgivings that members of Congress once felt about exceeding their constitutional constraints. They have learned to stop worrying and love that balm.
This is all reasonable and true. I agree with the basic thesis that the Commerce Clause is regularly abused by Congress and the executive branch agencies tasked with enforcing the laws. I would also say, however, that criticisms of the application of the Commerce Clause regularly go too far.
As an example of what I mean, take this paragraph:
Congress saw it, however, even a gun that is made and sold in the same state where it is possessed "affects interstate or foreign commerce," given the cumulative impact that bringing guns into school zones has on "a pervasive, nationwide problem."
I agree that tying the possession of a firearm in a school zone to interstate commerce is too big of a stretch. But I disagree with the proposition that the gun being made and sold entirely within the same state would mean that it is not related to interstate commerce. This isn't the late 18th century. Travel and business between states is vastly easier than it was when the Commerce Clause was written. Trying to interpret "interstate commerce" based on 18th century movement of goods and services is unreasonable. For one thing, few guns are made and sold in the same state. Armalite, for instance, maker of the AR-15, manufactures its guns in Arizona. Arizona may be a fairly gun-friendly state, but I'm sure that its guns sold in Arizona by residents of Arizona is a small fraction of all of the guns it sells.
I also take issue with the recent SCOTUS decision over the "Good Neighbor" provision of the Clean Air Act. The majority had granted an emergency petition on a theory that the EPA had made procedural errors in a new rule regarding ground level ozone that required upwind states and industries to do more to limit ozone pollution that would affect the health of people living in downwind states. The majority (Justice Gorsuch writing the opinion) then granted the injunction on the rule, stating that the EPA didn't do enough to consider the costs to the challengers to comply with the plan while litigation continues that could be “hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars.”
The majority substituted its own judgement of how to regulate interstate commerce for that of Congress in writing the Clean Air Act and the EPA authorized by Congress to enforce it. This has been the story of the Roberts Court for over a decade. The conservatives on the Court, lead by the Chief Justice, have worked to increase the Court's authority to decide policy by stepping in to use its judgement in place of the other branches' enumerated powers. It has done so under the guise of limiting executive overreach and more narrow interpretations of Article 1 powers of Congress, but the effect is clearly to put into the hands of the judiciary the ability to overrule policies that the elected branches try to implement after being put in office by the voters.
The conservatives on the Court, lead by the Chief Justice, have worked to increase the Court’s authority to decide policy by stepping in to use its judgement in place of the other branches’ enumerated powers.
I belatedly agree. I never really thought about the Court's ability (and tendency) to create extra-constitutional authorities for itself. Of course every case is specifically addressing branches other than the judiciary so it's hard to see that the decisions reducing this branch or that branch can also be increasing the judicial branch.
The immunity decision woke me up re that. Since it basically created a pardon power for the SC. Uh what? I thought it was Ford who pardoned Nixon - not the SC who pardoned Nixon.
You say:
So, what, we should just round up and say that all guns are covered even if they never traveled in interstate commerce?
I'd say that it's an illegitimate use of Congressional power to regulate the use of guns which at some point traveled in interstate commerce. Congress has the power to regulate such commerce. There's no power to regulate an item forever if it or any of its components ever crossed state lines.
So, what, we should just round up and say that all guns are covered even if they never traveled in interstate commerce?
Yes, exactly. That is because Congress could not effectively regulate the buying and selling of a particular good that regularly crosses state lines otherwise. If one business could escape that regulation within the state it produces the good, while other businesses from out of state would still be subject to federal rules, then the market for that good becomes extremely chaotic and the out of state businesses would have a justified claim that they should not be treated differently.
The point is that regulating commerce is not just regulating the buying and selling of a specific item or type of item. It is regulating a market for that item. At least, that is a perfectly valid way to think about the word commerce in a regulatory context, in my opinion.
I’d say that it’s an illegitimate use of Congressional power to regulate the use of guns which at some point traveled in interstate commerce. Congress has the power to regulate such commerce. There’s no power to regulate an item forever if it or any of its components ever crossed state lines.
As I just said, I don't see regulating commerce as just regulating the buying and selling of individual items. I view it as regulating the market for something, in this case, guns. Now, that would mean to me that Congress would have very limited Commerce Clause authority to regulate how people use guns. To expand a little on what I said in my original comment, the kinds of reasoning this article says that Congress used for the school zone prohibition is way too big of a stretch for it to say that possessing a gun in a school zone has some significant impact on the market for guns.
Looking at the form and function of a gun, what kinds of accessories can be added to it, who would be able to buy a gun, and so on is well within Commerce Clause authority, though. (Again, in my lay opinion)
But in counterargument: Fuck off, slaver.
The specific case of Wickard was a situation where the Commerce Clause was being used to justify federal authority to dictate to a farmer what he could do with his land where no commerce was taking place at all, interstate or otherwise. Just that there was a theoretical effect on commerce by the farmer growing crops for his own use was all that was required for the court to declare that the feds had broad authority to micromanage a farmer's activities, even if he was not selling anything.
The criticisms of Commerce Clause have never went far enough.
The criticisms of Commerce Clause have never went far enough.
I disagree. That Wickard was obviously too much is not adequate justification to scale the Commerce Clause back as much as many libertarians and conservatives have argued for.
People take regulation for granted, quite frankly. They don't think much about it because it mostly doing what it is supposed to do: protect the general public from individuals and businesses that would not have adequate incentive to avoid harm to them without government regulation. We see this most obviously in the forms of pollution, product safety, worker safety, and the like. It isn't that people in businesses are inherently untrustworthy so much as it is natural for people to focus on their own well being and needs. The owners and management of a factory will look at their bottom line as their first priority, with the safety of workers that they could fairly easily replace being lower than that. The health of local residents that breathe in the factory's emissions would be lower still, as they aren't employees and might not even be customers at all, let alone enough of them to matter. Even the safety of customers that use its products would only be a concern to the extent that injuries or other harm from using the product would affect sales.
I have asked before what would replace regulations like those to provide sufficient incentive for businesses to avoid harm, and the most common response was legal liability - the people harmed could sue, in other words. But then the same people that argue for less regulation will also argue to reign in such lawsuits, especially class action ones, as being too costly to business and that the plaintiff's lawyers that bring the suits are really just ambulance chasers.
Hey guys. Did you know that Biden is banning gas cars?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4jtp-Cg244&ab_channel=AFPM
Sounds terrible. I wonder where we can find more information about this car ban. Do you know?
An unlisted Youtube vid with under 600 views? Really?
C'mon, jeff! Let's have a link to your more substantive reading material. Like that essay you enjoyed so much about how only DARK BRANDON can save the world from FASCISM. 🙂
I don't want to hear about Cartman's Dark Brandon slashfic.
You dumbass.
AFPM
666 subscribers
589 views 1 month ago
AFPM is a trade association representing high-tech American manufacturers of virtually the entire U.S. supply of gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, other fuels and home heating oil, as well as the petrochemicals used as building blocks for thousands of vital products in daily life.
Sounds pretty MAGA, Lying Jeffy.
I see you and Plugly and Sarckles are trolling hard this morning. Fresh orders from Act Blue? Or is this just rage because you missed the skull and only hit his ear?
They have to distract from what happened yesterday. Didn't you see the memo that went out?
@CBSNews said the biggest threat right now is ‘retaliatory violence.’
You cannot hate these people enough. You can only try.
From the comments:
Well, look at all the MAGA supporters out in the streets right now rioting in response to what happened at the rally.
Oh wait, we don’t do that sort of thing and the legacy media as usual is full of shit.
Just as “anti-muslim” violence was the biggest threat following 9/11.
The media’s good guy/bad guy roles are fixed. The narrative is just crafted around them.
They had some counterterrorism “expert” on about 20 minutes after this happened with that exact message.
Wasn’t that th biggest worry about 7/7 in England? The Islamophobia? Same MO.
After spending the first hour basically blaming Trump for having open air rallies. These people are beyond redemption.
Always worried about the “backlash” that somehow never comes. To distract from the lash that happens over and over and over.
CNN's Jamie Gangel attacks Trump for saying "Fight! Fight! Fight!" after someone tried to murder him.
Literally, she complains about what he did 5 seconds after he was shot
"That's not the message that we want to being sending right now. We want to tamp it down" Jamie Gangel on CNN lamented that, in the thirty seconds after Donald Trump got shot, he did not urge people to tone down the rhetoric, instead choosing to show the crowd he was okay by raising up his fist and yelling, “Fight.”
Margaret Brennan on CBS, after Trump released a statement mourning the dead and praising law enforcement, lamented he did not urge people to tone down the rhetoric.
Chemjeff, your new narrative has been set.
Stupid cunts. Jeff, too.
Here’s 2 and a half minutes straight of Democrats explicitly calling for political violence.
Has Biden ever denounced this? They have blood on their hands.
Nevwr happened. Ask jeff. Amnesty.
The Bee makes another prophecy.
Trump Indicted For Inciting Assassination Attempt
I believe at this point that’s just going to be a pre-impeachment.
Maybe AOC can get a head start and just go ahead and file those articles on Monday.
From one of the main inciters of violence against Trump.
Nancy Pelosi @SpeakerPelosi
As one whose family has been the victim of political violence, I know firsthand that political violence of any kind has no place in our society. I thank God that former President Trump is safe.
As we learn more details about this horrifying incident, let us pray that all those in attendance at the former President’s rally today are unharmed.
But Rand’s wife has her number:
Kelley Paul@KelleyAshbyPaul
Your daughter Christine tweeted that the lunatic who assaulted my husband and broke six of his ribs was “right” to attack him — on the same day Rand was literally gasping to breathe from his injuries.
Also, Pelosi's husband was attacked by a lunatic rent boy. There was no "political" there no matter how hard she tries to reframe it.
savage!
ML-Trump Debate Lie Update:
https://reason.com/2024/07/13/biden-and-trump-hope-to-tip-the-election-scales-with-working-class-proposals/?comments=true#comment-10638299
So, I made some progress yesterday. I finally got ML to admit that yes, it's the importers/consumers who actually pay a tariff, not the exporters/producers. But he's still not there in admitting that Trump lied during the debate.
Just to review, this is what Trump said:
Trump's lie here is the manner in which he claims tariffs work. He is claiming that it is the exporter (China) that pays the tariff, not the importer. He is doing so intentionally, because he wants to deceive people into thinking that his tariff proposals aren't, in fact, a tax increase on Americans.
And in trying to weasel out of admitting that Trump lied here, he has tried various tactics:
1. First, he tried to claim that "a prediction can't be a lie", which is true but misleading given the actual nature of Trump's lie here.
2. Then, he tried to claim that it's not a lie because we don't know yet know if the tariff will serve its intended purpose or not. That is irrelevant, the lie isn't about whether the tariff will serve its purpose or not, the lie is about how tariffs function.
3. Then, he tried to claim that it's not a lie because the tariff will, in fact, raise revenue for the US Treasury. This is irrelevant, no one disagrees with this.
4. Then, he tried to claim that akshually, exporters do pay customs duties, and that's basically the same thing as a tariff. Wrong, customs duties are not the same as a tariff. And besides, Trump didn't say "customs duty", he said "tariff".
5. And finally, after finally admitting that yes, it is importers that pay the tariff, ML is now trying to claim that what Trump actually meant when he said "force them to pay us a lot of money", that the "them" refers to Chinese companies that are also importers, who will pay the tariff (and then pass on the costs to American consumers). But if you look at the entire quote above, "them" very clearly refers to "countries that have been ripping us off" (in Trump's opinion), not some fucking import company.
And it doesn't even pass the laugh test that when Trump is thinking about tariffs, his real intended targets are some Chinese import companies, and not the government of China.
So ML has meandered and flailed and tried to grasp onto any plausible-sounding rationale that he can think of, no matter how weak or tenuous or ridiculous, all in an effort to avoid having to admit that yes, Trump did lie during the debate.
This is why I say that if anyone is a fifty-center around here, it's ML and Jesse. They both fall over backwards defending their team, with ridiculous unprincipled arguments.
But, maybe ML will surprise us all today and finally, finally admit that Trump lied here during the debate. Will it happen? Let's find out!
"So, I made some progress yesterday. I finally got ML to admit that yes, it’s the importers/consumers who actually pay a tariff, not the exporters/producers. But he’s still not there in admitting that Trump lied during the debate."
YOU FUCKING FANTASIZING LIAR. Everyone here saw your dishonesty yesterday. Who the fuck are you trying to kid?
I SAID THE IMPORTER PAID FROM THE VERY BEGINNING. Don't try to lie and pretend you convinced me yesterday of something I always said, you mendacious garbage human.
Mother's Lament (original flavor) 2 days ago
“WHO PAYS THE TARIFF”
THE FUCKING IMPORTERS DO.
https://reason.com/2024/07/12/ukrainian-president-putin/?comments=true#comment-10638148
That's me telling you two fucking days ago. Not yesterday.
Are you guys seeing this? Its the exact same kind of mischaracterization that he tried to pull yesterday when he pretended I only gave him the name of a single city in Mexico as a cite, instead of eight and a report from the UN.
How do you deal with a clown like Jeff, who not only constantly tries to lie about your position, but does it so stupidly and ineptly?
Anyway. Jeff had shifted his argument and was now trying to claim that foreign companies don't import products into the US using import brokerage.
As that is obviously not true, I don't know what else to say, other than Jeff is an inveterate liar who will continue to lie even if it makes him look stupid. Lying Jeffy to the core.
How do you deal with a clown like Jeff, who not only constantly tries to lie about your position, but does it so stupidly and ineptly?
I mute the worthless kiddiefucker.
Oh noes. Yes, I finally got ML to admit two days ago, not yesterday, that importers are the ones that pay the tariffs. My bad. But that wasn't "from the beginning", since we have been discussing the issue of Trump's lies since the day after the debate, over two weeks ago.
was now trying to claim that foreign companies don’t import products into the US using import brokerage.
No, I don't deny that foreign companies import into the US. But those companies weren't what Trump was referring to in his debate quote above, so that is an irrelevant little detail.
To repeat: when Trump said "force them to pay us a lot of money", the "them" specifically refers to countries, not import companies. And it does not pass the smell test that Trump's big hullabaloo about tariffs are all designed to punish this set of import companies, when he rages every day about CHAY-NA.
You have this remarkable ability to gaslight with such confidence. I can see why you get paid 50 cents for every post. I think you should ask for a raise, because you are definitely above average at the gaslighting.
Yes, I finally got ML to admit two days ago, not yesterday
Not two days ago either, I posted the definition a week ago when you first launched on your dishonest stupidity. I didn’t “admit” anything. I posted it because you were trying to say it was only duties.
Now, are you going to ever admit that foreign companies import using import brokers so they can sell and distribute their own products stateside? Because your whole lie hinges on claiming that doesn’t happen.
Now, are you going to ever admit that foreign companies import using import brokers so they can sell and distribute their own products stateside?
Umm, I did, 2 days ago.
https://reason.com/2024/07/13/biden-and-trump-hope-to-tip-the-election-scales-with-working-class-proposals/?comments=true#comment-10638917
When Trump said "force them to pay us a lot of money", the "them" is referring to "countries that have been ripping us off" (in his opinion). He is not referring to import brokers.
And once again you are trying to do this nitpicking technicality thing while missing the forest for the trees. Trump is very clearly trying to say that "they" pay the tariff, not "us", and that is just flatly wrong, moreover, it is an intentional deception because he does not want the public to think that he wants to levy a tax increase on them.
We've been at this for over a week and you've gone through now 5 or 6 iterations of bullshit arguments to try to weasel out of this. Just give it up and finally admit that Trump lied here. It is as plain as day.
He says the importer pays the tariff, not the consumer. If he said the latter he’d have to admit that he supports regressive taxes on people who can’t afford them in order to protect overpaid union workers. He may as well be a Democrat.
Actually, I think ML is closer to a Marxist. It seems to me that he definitely thinks in class-based terms like Marx did. There's the proletariat (working class) and the bourgeoisie (elites) and ML pretty consistently comes down on taking power away from the bourgeoisie and giving it to the proletariat. To that end I don't think he'd mind so much if tariffs meant protecting overpaid union workers, since the union workers in this case belong to the proletariat.
Nah. He’s just a Trump defender who says he hates Democrats, but is too emotional to realize he’s just like what he hates.
When you stroke Jeff, do you also get stimulated?
Of course he does. His little pecker gets hard at the thought of having an "ally". It's been hard on Sarc since White Mike left him.
You and Jeff were calling Trump Hitler for months lol.
I dare you to post even one time where I called Trump Hitler. I'll wait.
I don’t think he’s lying. He believes what he says. To him comparing Trump’s words to Hitler’s words equals calling him Hitler because if he did the same to a Democrat the entire point would be calling the guy Hitler.
It’s a vicious combination of stupidity and projection.
Hey Sarc, do you want me to post all the times you accused Trump of trying to emulate Hitler?
“Actually, I think ML is closer to a Marxist. It seems to me that he definitely thinks in class-based terms like Marx did. There’s the proletariat (working class) and the bourgeoisie (elites) and ML pretty consistently comes down on taking power away from the bourgeoisie and giving it to the proletariat.”
For someone who said yesterday that you dislike the proles (common man) and don’t see why they're catered to, it’s kinda amusing your accusing me of this today. You’re certainly not scared to be a hypocrite.
But you know what Jeffrey? No matter how much gentry class dick you and sarc suck, you won’t even get to be a parvenu.
Oh hey, you got your handle back.
you dislike the proles (common man)
No, I didn't say that I "dislike" the common man. In fact, I even said:
https://reason.com/2024/07/13/donald-trump-bloodied-in-possible-assassination-attempt/?comments=true#comment-10639435
I don’t detest ‘the common man’ but I also don’t venerate him.
It's you and your team that puts the proletariat on a pedestal and claim that they are the virtuous ones who are entitled to power simply because they are the proletariat. I disagree with this entitlement mentality. All voices should be listened to, and the proles don't get extra virtue points just for being working class.
And I also note that you don't fundamentally disagree with my analysis above, that you tend to view the world in Marxist class-based terms, the proletariat ('common man', 'working class') vs. the bourgeoisie ('elite').
Cries a out people calling him a Democrat, accuses others of being s democrat. Can't make this shit up. Lol.
So you don’t know what “may as well” means. No surprise. Your inability to understand hypotheticals lines up with your lack of imagination and lack of a sense of humor.
Doesn't realize his own retarded actions lol.
Your inability to understand hypotheticals lines up with your lack of imagination and lack of a sense of humor.
This from the drunken troll who can't remember half the shit he's posted, and when people punch back he freaks out and acts like he's the martyr.
Victor Davis Hanson has their number on assassination porn
If we were leftists and we were to use leftist tropes to editorialize the recent attempt on Trump’s life, then we would frame the assassination attempt in the following way:
We have witnessed for years blatant exceptions to the once common custom that we don’t normalize the imagined killing of any president or presidential candidate and thus lower the bar of violence.
But the Left constantly makes Trump an exception. Now, it as if the imagined killing of Trump had been mainstreamed and become acceptable in a way inconceivable of other presidents.
(Do we remember the rodeo clown who merely wore an Obama mask during a bull riding contest and was punished by being permanently banned by the Missouri State Fair authorities?)
So since at least 2016 there has been a parlor game among Leftist celebrities and entertainers joking (one hopes), dreaming, imagining, and just talking about the various and graphic ways they would like to assassinate or seriously injure Trump:
By slugging his face (Robert De Niro), by decapitation (Kathy Griffin, Marilyn Manson), by stabbing (Shakespeare in the Park), by clubbing (Mickey Rourke), by shooting ( Snoop Dogg), by poisoning (Anthony Bourdain), by bounty killing (George Lopez), by carrion eating his corpse (Pearl Jam), by suffocating (Larry Whilmore), by blowing him up (Madonna, Moby), by throwing him over a cliff (Rosie O’Donnell), just by generic “killing” him (Johnny Depp, Big Sean), or by martyring him (Reid Hoffman: “Yeah, I wish I had made him an actual martyr.”).
Or should we deplore the use of telescopic scope imagery, given that the Left blamed Sarah Palin for once using bullseye spots on an election map of opposition congressional districts, claiming that such usage had incited the mass shooting by Jared Lee Loughner?
Yet, recently POTUS Joe Biden was a little bit more graphic and a lot more literal.
In a widely reported call to hundreds of donors last week, Biden boasted, “I have one job, and that’s to beat Donald Trump. I’m absolutely certain I’m the best person to be able to do that. So, we’re done talking about the debate, it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye.”
"In a bullseye?”
At least, Biden did not go back to the full Biden beat-up porn of the past (e.g., “If we were in high school, I’d take him behind the gym and beat the hell out of him"/ “The press always asks me, ‘Don’t I wish I were debating him?’ No, I wish we were in high school – I could take him behind the gym. That’s what I wish.”).
Then there is the question of the Secret Service and one’s political opponents. Given the tragic history of the Kennedys, why in the world did the Biden administration not insist that third-party candidate Robert Kennedy, Jr. be accorded Secret Service protection? Because his candidacy was felt to be disadvantageous to Biden?
And why just this April would the former head of the January 6th Committee and 2004 election obstructionist Rep. Bennie Thompson (D-Miss.) introduce legislation ridiculously entitled, “Denying Infinite Security and Government Resources Allocated toward Convicted and Extremely Dishonorable (DISGRACED) Former Protectees Act” to strip away Secret Service protection for former President Trump and by this April current leading presidential candidate?
Had Thompson’s bill passed, would that not have been confirmation for a potential shooter to feel his task was just made much easier?
But in a wider sense, if the common referent day after day on the Left is that Trump is another Hitler (cf. a recent The New Republic cover where Trump is literally photoshopped as Hitler), then it seems reckless not to imagine an unhinged or young shootist believing that by taking out somewhat identical to one of the greatest mass murderers in history, he would be applauded for his violence?
So is their logic, shoot Trump and save six million from the gas chambers?
After all, The New Republic defiantly explained their Hitler-Trump cover photo this way, "Today, we at The New Republic think we can spend this election year in one of two ways. We can spend it debating whether Trump meets the nine or 17 points that define fascism. Or we can spend it saying, “He’s damn close enough, and we’d better fight.”
Well, New Republic, recently someone took you up on your argument that Trump was “damn close enough” to Hitler and so he likewise chose to “fight”— albeit with a semi-automatic rifle.
If ad nauseam, a Joy Reid is screaming about Trump as a Hitlerian dictator ("Then let me know who I got to vote for to keep Hitler out of the White House”) or Rachel Maddow is bloviating about studying Hitler to understand Trump, then finally the message sinks in that a mass murderer is about to take power—unless....
Finally, the idea, if true, that bystanders spotted a 20-year-old on a nearby roof with a gun, a mere 130 yards from Trump, and in vain warned police of his presence, is surreal.
Is it all that hard for the Secret Service to post a few agents on the tops of a few surrounding buildings closest to the dais, or at least coordinate with local law enforcement to do the same?
That is a no brainer. Whoever made the decisions concerning the proper secret service security details for presidential events should be immediately fired.
Well, finally we agree: people with large public platforms, should be careful to use that platform responsibly. No, Johnny Depp et al. aren't responsible for the Trump assassination attempt, but they are responsible for their careless and irresponsible choice of words.
Now that we agree, that people with large public platforms should use that platform responsibly, perhaps we might like to revisit a few items from the recent past:
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-predicts-end-us-democracy-if-he-loses-2024-election-2024-03-17/
Well, finally we agree: people with large public platforms, should be careful to use that platform responsibly.
No. We don't agree because you don't actually believe that even for a second.
Just like how you only both sides things when the Democrats have been caught doing something even you can't minimize or excuse, you're only calling for cooler rhetoric because the Democrats incited this.
No. We don’t agree because you don’t actually believe that even for a second.
No, I've been pretty consistently critical of Trump for his careless choice of words given the huge megaphone that he has.
Since you apparently agree with Hanson here that those individuals mentioned above, with big platforms, chose their words carelessly and irresponsibly, and should have been more circumspect, what do you think about Trump's choice of words here, referring to a 'bloodbath' if he doesn't win?
Trump’s choice of words here, referring to a ‘bloodbath’ if he doesn’t win?
I'm going to give you till 12am pst to give Trump's ‘bloodbath’ statement in context, and admit you were trying to incite right now. If you don't, I will follow you around with it all week.
Now of course I'm not doing this to be nice to you, because I loathe you. I'm giving you a chance to take it back because I really don't want to go through the effort. But I will if you don't recant.
I will even do you one better. Here is the video of the actual speech, helpfully recorded by your right-wing pals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw6neh7WQnc&t=2055s&ab_channel=RightSideBroadcastingNetwork
But we all know how this is going to work. You are going to try to weasel and lawyer and nitpick your way out of this to try to claim 'oh, he wasn't really advocating for violence here!' However, someone somewhere who compared Trump to Hitler is irresponsibly advocating for violence and totally motivated the would-be assassin to take a shot at Trump.
Another example of why you can’t have chicks in charge.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-says-trump-echoed-nazis-with-use-word-vermin-2023-11-15/
Why would those be bad things?
No more (D)emocracy?
"root out the communists, Marxists, fascists and the radical left thugs that live like vermin"
No wonder you're upset, because you inhabit all four positions. Calling out fascists and communists must be very upsetting to you.
So what do you think, is it appropriate and responsible for a person like Trump, with a huge megaphone and many followers, to be referring to fellow citizens as "vermin"? Some of his more deranged followers might see that as a license to start "exterminating" the "vermin", no?
I mean, that is the theory that you all are going with, with the Trump assassination attempt, right? That the constant rhetoric about Trump being 'literal Hitler' inspired this shooter to try to take him out, right?
Illegal immigrants aren’t “fellow citizens ”.
Definitionally speaking.
to be referring to fellow citizens as “vermin”
Are Nazis and Communists your ‘fellows’, Jeff? Are you saying that Nazis and Communists aren't vermin?
As expected of you.
They are fellow citizens, even if I strongly disagree with them. They aren't 'vermin', they are people. But glad to see that you are fine with dehumanization rhetoric if it affects the other side. But, say any mean words about Trump, and that is irresponsible violent rhetoric that inspires shooters to try to kill him.
stop making me try to like him more. I'm already convinced
And if one of his more unhinged followers starts the “extermination” of the “vermin”, I’m sure you will condemn Trump for his irresponsible rhetoric that led to the tragedy.
I mean, check out the other discussion. There's about a half-dozen people falling all over themselves explaining why the time is now to "go kinetic".
Joe said they needed to “put a bullseye “ on trump.
You mean Trump’s Deranged Supporters are itching to kill immigrants and those who disagree with their politics? Whatever gave you that idea? Calling them cancer? Deflecting calls for extermination? Telling people who disagree with them to go kill themselves? Defending the indefensible by saying their enemy did it first? Bragging about having more guns than their political opponents? Inviting people who disagree with them to go hunting so they can murder them in the woods?
Did you get this retarded democrat talking point from all the bumper stickers in Maine you see?
Please show is the citations of people wanting to kill immigrants. Just once. All you do is post retarded leftist/marxist narratives because youre so easily fooled into repeating their narratives. It is amazing to watch day after day.
I got all those from these comments. From the people you defend.
Who, you greasy lying fuck? Name names.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-repeats-poisoning-blood-anti-immigrant-remark-2023-12-16/
"echoing of Nazi rhetoric"
See. It's you guys smearing him with stuff like this that got him shot.
Hitler, Mein Kampf:
"All great cultures of the past perished only because the originally creative race died out from blood poisoning," Hitler wrote.
"He poisons the blood of others but preserves his own blood unadulterated," Hitler wrote of Jewish males allowing Jewish females to marry white Christians.
"Whenever Aryans have mingled their blood with that of an inferior race, the result has been the downfall of the people who were the standard-bearers of a higher culture," he wrote in another passage.
https://www.axios.com/2023/12/30/trump-poisoning-the-blood-racism
I mean, it's a pretty fair statement to say that Trump's words "echo Nazi rhetoric". Actually, that itself is too soft: it echoes Hitler's own words. Maybe Trump shouldn't borrow from the Hitler style guide when writing his speeches.
Remember when ML defended Trump by saying he didn’t use the exact same words, so he couldn’t have meant the same thing?
Wonder if he will do that again, or just deflect with attacks.
He loves to try to weasel and lawyer and nitpick his way out of a jam. When he tries to do that, of course, he misses the forest for the trees. "Trump didn't cite an exact quote from Mein Kampf" is true, but misses the point. The point is that he is using the same type of rhetoric to describe the same type of idea: that a certain class of foreigners don't belong here not because of what they do, but because of who they are.
"Remember when ML defended Trump by saying he didn’t use the exact same words, so he couldn’t have meant the same thing?"
"He loves to try to weasel and lawyer and nitpick his way out of a jam."
Not only did he not use the exact same words, he didn't say the same thing. You fucking swine accused him of saying something he didn't say, because you two deceitful fucks wanted to smear him as Hitler.
One hour after these two idiots posted this, they then declaimed it above:
chemjeff radical individualist 3 hours ago
Flag Comment
Mute User
I dare you to post even one time where I called Trump Hitler. I’ll wait.
sarcasmic 3 hours ago
Flag Comment
Mute User
I don’t think he’s lying. He believes what he says. To him comparing Trump’s words to Hitler’s words equals calling him Hitler because if he did the same to a Democrat the entire point would be calling the guy Hitler.
It’s a vicious combination of stupidity and projection.
These two idiots couldn't even remember what they posted an hour earlier.
You mean when jeff and you were calling Trump Hitler then when I showed you all the times the dems used the word vermin you played dumb? How you cried about dehumanization and the next say were using dehumanizing statements?
You and Jeff are dumb marxist fucks freely bragging about repeating the rhetoric that drives the political violence. God damn you two are garbage humans.
the rhetoric that drives the political violence
Like calling citizens "vermin"? Or accusing illegal immigrants of "poisoning the blood of the nation"? Or saying that there will be a "bloodbath" if a particular candidate doesn't win?
Comparing his words to Hitler’s isn’t calling him Hitler. Not my fault you’re too stupid to understand.
I don’t think you are a liar anymore. I think you are sincere. And really fucking dumb.
He's basically an NPC at this point.
if (commenter == "sarcasmic") or (commenter == "chemjeff") then
print_random_insult()
print_standard_TeamRed_talking_point()
print "You believe " + standard_TeamBlue_talking_point()
print "You're a retard"
Don't forget some random bookmarked comment that is both misinterpreted and taken out of context.
The reason why people bookmark your comments, is because when they don't, you two lying assholes demand proof that you said that.
Comparing his words to Hitler’s isn’t calling him Hitler. Not my fault you’re too stupid to understand.
It's exactly what you you're doing when you two idiots compare his words to Hitler's.
Who the fuck do you two imagine you're tricking with this elementary school sophistry?
It’s exactly what you you’re doing when you two idiots compare his words to Hitler’s.
No, we're comparing his words to Hitler's words. We are noting that he is using the Hitler style guide for his speeches. No one here is claiming that, say, Trump wants to invade France or murder 6 million Jews. That would be what Hitler did.
Bravo Mr Sullum for a true libertarian post. But you left out the most egregious and latest example of commerce clause insanity, which is the government's claim in NFIB vs Sebelius to have the authority under the commerce clause to regulate our decisions.
Thought control is no longer just a sci-fi thingy, it is a power granted to Congress by the Constitution according to some leftist loons.
From PPACA:
EFFECTS ON THE NATIONAL ECONOMY AND INTERSTATE COMMERCE. -The effects described in this paragraph are the following:
(A) The requirement regulates activity that is commercial and economic in nature: economic and financial decisions about how and when health care is paid for, and when health insurance is purchased.
Gladys Kessler (Mead v. Holder):
For the foregoing reasons, the Court finds that Congress had
a rational basis for its conclusion that the aggregate of individual decisions not to purchase health insurance substantially affects the national health insurance market. Consequently, Congress was acting within the bounds of its Commerce Clause power when it enacted § 1501
Ginsberg et al (NFIB vs Sebelius):
First, Congress has the power to regulate economic activities “that substantially affect interstate commerce.” Gonzales v. Raich, 545 U. S. 1, 17 (2005). This capacious power extends even to local activities that, viewed in the aggregate, have a substantial impact on interstate commerce. See ibid. See also Wickard, 317 U. S., at 125 (“Even if appellee’s activity be local and though it may not be regarded as commerce, it may still, whatever its nature, be reached by Congress if it exerts a substantial economic effect on interstate commerce.”)
More insanity from Ginsberg in her PPACA opinion:
It is not hard to show the difficulty courts (and Congress) would encounter in distinguishing statutes that regulate “activity” from those that regulate “inactivity.” As Judge Easterbrook noted, “it is possible to restate most actions as corresponding inactions with the same effect.” Archie v. Racine, 847 F. 2d 1211, 1213 (CA7 1988) (en banc). Take this case as an example. An individual who opts not to purchase insurance from a private insurer can be seen as actively selecting another form of insurance: self-insurance. See Thomas More Law Center, 651 F. 3d, at 561 (Sutton, J., concurring in part) (“No one is inactive when deciding how to pay for health care, as self insurance and private insurance are two forms of action for addressing the same risk.”). The minimum coverage provision could therefore be described as regulating activists in the self-insurance market.7 Wickard is another example. Did the statute there at issue target activity (the growing of too much wheat) or inactivity (the farmer’s failure to purchase wheat in the marketplace)? If anything, the Court’s analysis suggested the latter. See 317 U. S., at 127–129. (end quote)
Ginsburg was one of the worst justices we ever had. and it's a tough competition. She was a total midwit.
My money is on the Wise Latina.
Sayonara
Hoooweeee! The Bidenistas are active today.
They were last night too. The orders went out for all hands on deck.
Raz0rfist weighs in on the Trump assassination.
He needs a chill pill.
Breaking: Shannon Doherty, dead at 53.
I'm going to presume this is also Trump's fault.
It’s not what he did, it’s what he said.
Ruth, then Richard systems. Rule of 3 said someone else had to die. Trump avoiding death forced Doherty to die. He is responsible.
I figured the talking point was just going to be that he caused her cancer, somehow.
She's been fighting cancer for almost ten years now.
So, of course it is.
I never go to CNN, but yesterday I started looking at their page for the hilarity, and boy have they not disappointed:
Jake Tapper: ‘We are living in an era of political violence
Hey, someone just noticed BLM and ANTIFA!
In pictures: Trump injured at rally
*shoots drink through nose*
‘You’re next’ Some Trump supporters blame the media for assassination attempt
In what world would assassinating Hitler NOT be ok? Show your work.
Why a fair election in Venezuela could change the fate of millions of migrants – and Joe Biden
*scratches chin*
It’s time more horror films push back against queer stereotypes
For Black people, there’s an important history of flight as fight
As college liberals, we know we can’t echo-chamber ourselves to victory
The ‘QAnon Shaman’ wants his helmet and spear back but the Justice Department objects
Ohio mom struck by her own car while trying to save her child from a carjacking
?!!
Reason: It's not the carjacker's fault!
Was it a red SUV? Because they are pretty unpredictable.
Probably. Those red ones are very rebellious and hard to control.
Wickard v Filburn easily makes the top 5 worst of all time supreme court decisions. Just a disaster for a america and still going.
Yup.
Yet you stan for the party outraged by any executive reform such as dems attacking overturning Chevron. This is why nobody believes you lol.
Are you drunk? I praised the Chevron decision. Yay Trump for appointing some good justices.
Oh, you haven't realized yet. My hypothesis is, you and I, we don't really exist in Jesse's mind. Instead he substitutes us for some generic "Libtard NPC" stereotype that exists in his head.
I get the feeling he rehearses these arguments on the way to work, then attacks us with him instead of doing his job.
Earlier he called me a “both sides democrat” or something similar. What the fuck does that mean? If you reject both sides you’re a Democrat? That’s stupidity.
You're both fucking parodies. Did you think you’re actually real?
Thomas crooks, the shooter, had no social media or online presence? How much do you want to bet the feds wiped it befor releasing his name. Oh and the kicker, both his parents a councilers.
I’m not one for conspiracytheorificationizing, but when I saw the picture of the dead shooter, my first thought was, “I’m guessing there’ll be a manifesto somewhere that the US News Media will fight tooth and nail to keep under wraps."
They probably deleted as soon as the feds were done grooming him to be a shooter.
There’s plenty of info about him on foreign media that isn’t trying to create a narrative for domestic politics. From the BBC.
He was into guns. Was wearing a Tshirt from a youtube channel called Demolition Ranch. But didn’t make the school rifle team. Was a member of a local shooting club.
He was a loner in school. Some kids say he was bullied – others say he was just quiet and was a nerd rather than a weirdo.
He was clearly good at school. Interested in history. Got that science/math prize.
But wasn’t using that to get anywhere early on. Worked in a kitchen at a nursing home.
The standard first-generation (growth in the 50’s and 60’s) white middle class bedroom community suburb (of Pittsburgh) that voted slight plurality Trump in 2020. The sort of suburb that generates school shooters along with eternal surprise I would never have thought something live that could happen here. We’re so quiet and peaceful and nice..
So, what is the evidence that "violent political rhetoric" motivated him to attempt to assassinate Trump?
If I were to guess:
He saw something in Trump/cult that seriously triggered him. Not a difficult guess that one.
Possibly something that looked like a bully/tactic he hated in school. That's a guess. But not unheard of. Biff Tannen in Back to the Future was modeled on Trump. And he's used bullying of other Rs (see both primaries) to turn R into his cult of personality.
I doubt we'll give a shit if we can't find a political reason. We'll just settle on crazy loon shitbag who was influenced by the evil other. That's good enough for us and great for building a conspiracy. Another guess.
I see. So nothing like "he was active in local left-wing politics" or "he watched MSNBC every night" or "he was subscribed to 20 left-wing Youtube channels and podcasts", nothing like that?
Gee, it kinda sounds like the hypothesis that "violent political rhetoric" motivated this guy to try to assassinate Trump, is not exactly proved.
That's good enough for the people here. They've already used this thread to convince themselves what the REAL truth is.
If it's not true it will be quietly forgotten.
But it might. There is a possibility. And if it is you can bet they'll attack everyone who changes their minds based upon actual information.
The suburb that generates school shooters? You haven't heard of Chicago public schools have you
Of the 10 deadliest school shootings in the U.S., all but one took place in a town with fewer than 75,000 residents and the vast majority of them were in cities with fewer than 50,000 people. Mostly suburbs or a small rural town. Blacksburg, Parkland, Newtown, Littleton, Uvalde, Roseburg, Rancho Tehama, Santa Fe (TX), Red Lake, etc. Only exception is Austin and that was 1966.
Street/gang shootings is a different dynamic – and it doesn’t go into the schools. You want to use Chicago? Last year, seven kids were killed on a school day. In all but one case, they were walking home and mostly incidental. They weren't a target.
all but one took place in a town with fewer than 75,000 residents... Mostly suburbs
Um... as opposed to urban cores and downtowns?
Littleton/Columbine is a part of the Denver metropolitan area, Newtown is part of the Greater Danbury metropolitan area as well as the New York metropolitan area, Parkland is in the Miami metropolitan area, Blacksburg is part of the Blacksburg-Christiansburg Metropolitan Area which is home to Virginia Tech, Santa Fe is part of Galveston, Uvalde is part of San Antonio.
Only Roseburg with 23,000 people, Red Lake and Rancho Tehama, California could kinda-sorta count as rural.
Getting word on the street that some ammo retailers are reporting 2000% increase in sales since Saturday night.
https://youtu.be/qPBPW7xqKhQ?si=N88NikIqlkLOJud7
Tulsi a month ago. Pretty accurate.
In Dallas half the hip population was released from jail thanks to the Leary case. A number of kangaroo indictments for harmless LSD were also quashed. Tim Leary was a sane alternative to the SDS/YIP Communist Youth Squads and set an example for forming the Libertarian Party with its excellent vote-getting platforms. Leary exerted a positive influence on Lennon, at least one of whose orphaned kids is now backing the LP.
A guy so annoying the Black Panthers put him under house arrest.
Good Lord. Biden is just not helping.
So in his speech tonight, he said, twice, that we ought to resolve our differences “at the battle box”. He meant “ballot box”, but geez. That was the worst time for one of his little “slip-ups”.
He also wasn't wearing a wedding ring. Weird.
If he was a pilot would you let him fly? I wouldn’t. And a certainly don’t trust him with nukes. I think it’s time to invoke the 25th. Can Harris be worse? I don't trust a former prosecutor with a plastic smile. She seems evil to me. But fuck. What happens the zombie is required to make real decisions?
Heck, I didn't trust him with nukes even before all of this.
Well, the 25th wouldn't work, because it would have to be approved by 2/3rds of Congress, and that isn't going to happen. Besides, trying to invoke the 25th in this way is a type of coup, and trying to do that REALLY opens up a Pandora's box of shit.
Even dem partisans who hate Trump are recognizing that Biden isn’t well, and only going to get worse.
They’re going to lose the election anyway. The debate and assassination attempt have lowered Biden and elevated Trump. And Harris can’t win. They’re fucked.
Why keep an incompetent man in office?
Biden helped Reagan/Bush1 plunge the country into the 1986 prohibition laws that triggered the 1987 Crash foreshadowing the Depression that rocked all Latin American economies and got Clinton elected. The Dems could put him in a rest home and nominate Chase Oliver. That would win in the sense that their every vote would act to repeal nazi legislation for years to come. It might even be a win in the looter sense... save a bunch of Blue looters from replacement by economy-wrecking Red looters.
The Dems could put him in a rest home and nominate Chase Oliver.
Um, they want to beat Donald Trump....
Shucks Dick, Trump lost three of the four vote counts and got beaten by sleepy Joe Biden the Chevy Chase impersonator in both the popular and electoral on the rematch. Or was all that fake gnus?
No, he meant 'battle box'. Remember, he's sharp in his meetings, with PhD level knowledges of foreigner affairs. He wouldn't make that mistake. Sharp.
But Roberts won't go for a tax that's intended as prohibitory. And just as calling something else a tax doesn't make it one, calling a tax something else doesn't make it that either.
You needed a visa then? I went to Mexico from L.A. in the 90s and they waved us through.
smuggled into the U.S. Code disguised as tax legislation.
Good thing that was just a one-off and this kind of thing has never happened again.