Democrats Don't Trust 'the Police,' but They Do Trust the FBI, Provided It Is Targeting Donald Trump
As the response to the Mar-a-Lago raid illustrates, Republicans are inconsistent in the other direction.

To obtain the warrant that it used to search Donald Trump's home at his Palm Beach resort on Monday, New York Times reporter Peter Baker says in a "news analysis," the FBI would have been "required to meet a high level of proof of possible crimes." That is a strange way to describe probable cause, an ill-defined standard that falls far short of the evidence needed to convict someone of a crime.
Baker's mischaracterization of probable cause reflects the misplaced deference to the FBI that Trump's opponents tend to display in cases involving the former president. Journalists who would be critical of the FBI in other contexts, such as the investigation of Hillary Clinton's email practices as secretary of state, abandon all skepticism when the bureau targets Trump or his associates. Baker, whose (correct) thesis is that Trump criticizes politicized law enforcement only when it works to his disadvantage, seems blithely unaware of the corresponding hypocrisy among people who despise Trump.
Baker acknowledges the FBI's "history at the intersection of politics and investigations," which is a pretty polite way to put it. "Under J. Edgar Hoover, its longtime director, the bureau bugged and pursued domestic opponents of the federal government, at times serving as a political tool of various presidents of both parties," he writes. But he implies that such abuse is a thing of the past.
"With revelations of past abuses after Hoover's death in 1972, Congress and the F.B.I. sought to cast off the bureau's history and transform it into a more professional, politically neutral organization," Baker writes. Thanks to those reforms, he says, "the bureau earned the respect of both parties and many Americans in the last half-century."
Sadly, Baker adds, "that built-up store of public credibility has eroded significantly in the Trump years. The proportion of Americans who told Gallup pollsters that they thought the F.B.I. was doing a good job fell from 57 percent in 2019 to 44 percent in 2021." The blame, Baker thinks, lies with Trump: "In Mr. Trump's first year in office, as he attacked the F.B.I. over the Russia investigation, the share of Republicans who had a favorable view of the bureau fell to 49 percent from 65 percent in surveys by the Pew Research Center while remaining steady among Democrats at 77 percent."
Gallup's polling also finds a partisan gap in attitudes toward "the police," but there the pattern is reversed. Overall, according to a survey conducted in June, 45 percent of Americans have "a great deal" or "quite a lot" of confidence in the police—the lowest level recorded "in at least three decades of measurement." But while 67 percent of Republicans expressed that attitude, just 28 percent of Democrats did.
Unless you think local police are for some reason less prone to abuse their powers than the FBI is (or vice versa), those partisan gaps are pretty hard to understand as a matter of principle. Republicans and Democrats both seem highly selective in their skepticism. While Baker is probably right that politics explains that puzzle, he is paying attention to just half of the picture.
Harvey Silverglate, a longtime Massachusetts defense attorney and civil libertarian, offers a rather different take on the bureau in a Compact essay titled "Abolish the FBI." Silverglate, a Reason contributor who served on the board of his state's American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) chapter for several decades and co-founded what is now the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression, has documented the awesome power that the FBI and the Justice Department wield thanks to the proliferation of federal felonies.
"Few in either the executive or legislative branches of the federal government, and few even in state and local law-enforcement agencies as well as those occupying state political offices, are inclined to do anything to incur the bureau's wrath," Silverglate writes. "This is because of the breadth and vagueness of federal criminal statutes and the numerous regulations enacted pursuant to those statutes."
Silverglate thinks the FBI has proven itself so untrustworthy in exercising its powers that it should be scrapped and replaced by an entirely new agency. During his years with the ACLU, he says, "I heard scores of stories of FBI misconduct, including setting up innocent individuals with palpably false accusations of criminal violations. At the same time, the FBI overlooked the acts of the certifiably guilty."
Silverglate notes the bureau's notorious collaboration with the Boston gangster Whitey Bulger and illegal searches ordered by FBI Associate Director Mark Felt (who ironically was the main source for the Washington Post investigation that led to Richard Nixon's resignation). He also describes a meeting with Robert Mueller, who ran the FBI from 2001 to 2013, when Silverglate was representing former Army doctor Jeffrey McDonald, "whose conviction and life sentence for the 1970 murder of his wife and two young daughters while stationed at Fort Bragg, NC, had proved very controversial, due in large part to FBI misconduct." According to Silverglate, Mueller abruptly ended the meeting at the outset by declaring that "criticism of the bureau is a non-starter."
As that incident suggests, the problem with the FBI nowadays is not so much overt politicization as arrogance combined with broad powers and incompetence. On the same day that the Times ran Baker's piece, which portrays an FBI that lives up to its motto of "fidelity, bravery, integrity," the paper noted the retrial of Barry Croft and Adam Fox, who are accused of participating in a plot to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer. In their first trial, the jury failed to reach a verdict on the counts against them while acquitting two alleged co-conspirators after hearing evidence of unseemly behavior and entrapment by FBI agents and informants.
"Prosecutors Face Distrust in Second Try to Prove Plot to Kidnap Michigan's Governor," says the Times headline. The subhead notes that the first trial raised "questions about the F.B.I.'s tactics," which again is putting it mildly.
After his unpleasant encounter with Silverglate, Mueller went on to serve as the special counsel in charge of investigating Trump's allegedly nefarious ties to Russia. Although those charges inspired hopeful credulity in the mainstream press, the two-year investigation found no evidence to support them.
Trump and his supporters, who see the Russia investigation as a politically inspired "witch hunt," like to note the bias illustrated by communications between FBI agent Peter Strzok and FBI lawyer Lisa Page, his girlfriend at the time. Yet even Strzok, who called Trump an "idiot" and rooted against him in 2016, was skeptical of the Russian collusion allegations. "I hesitate in part because of my gut sense and concern there's no big 'there' there," he told Page.
It turned out that Strzok's gut was right, and that experience colored how Trump's supporters perceived all subsequent allegations against him, even when they were much better-grounded. As Reason's Elizabeth Nolan Brown notes, blind loyalty to Trump transforms Republicans from staunch defenders of law enforcement into harsh critics. Meanwhile, Democrats, who historically were more inclined to question the tactics of agencies like the FBI, swallow those doubts when it looks like Trump might finally get the comeuppance they think he richly deserves.
None of this means there was no legal basis for the Mar-a-Lago search, which apparently was aimed at recovering government documents, including classified material, that Trump improperly took with him when he left the White House. As defense attorney and former federal prosecutor Ken "Popehat" White notes, "federal magistrate judges tend to require relatively thorough, specific, and well-documented [warrant] applications, as opposed to state judges, who will generally sign a warrant that looks like something Gary Busey blew out of his nose after Fourth of July weekend."
In other words, White thinks it likely that U.S. Magistrate Judge Bruce Reinhart, who approved the warrant, was careful to make sure that the FBI had probable cause to believe the search would discover evidence of criminal activity. According to the Supreme Court's definition of probable cause, that meant there was "a fair probability" or "substantial chance" of finding such evidence. As White suggests, that standard is more demanding than the one that state judges often apply in practice. But it is far less demanding than the "preponderance of the evidence" standard that applies in civil cases, let alone the proof beyond a reasonable doubt required for a criminal conviction.
Without seeing the warrant, we can't say for sure which laws the FBI thought had been broken. But there are several likely candidates, including 18 USC 641, which applies to someone who "disposes of any record" belonging to the U.S. government; 18 USC 2071, which applies to someone who "conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys" such a record; and 18 USC 793, which applies to someone who mishandles classified information. All of those are felonies. If Trump lied to the FBI by, for example, falsely claiming that he had returned all purloined documents that belonged with the National Archives under the Presidential Records Act, that's another felony.
You can start to see Silverglate's point about "the breadth and vagueness of federal criminal statutes." But the fact that certain conduct can be treated as a federal crime does not necessarily mean that it will be. In the Clinton case, FBI Director James Comey famously decided that her "extremely careless" handling of "very sensitive, highly classified information" did not justify charging her under 18 USC 793, even though the crime described by that law includes "gross negligence."
Trump, whose frequent demands that Clinton be imprisoned inspired "lock her up!" chants from his supporters in 2016, was outraged by that decision. But now that the shoe is on the other foot, he might take comfort from Comey's reasoning:
Although there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case….In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice.
The discretion that Comey exercised in Clinton's case further illustrates Silverglate's argument that the vast scope of federal law empowers the FBI to arrest nearly anyone (or not) based on arbitrary, subjective, and possibly biased judgments. At the same time, it suggests that even if Trump's treatment of classified material was "extremely careless," prosecuting him would not be justified without aggravating circumstances like those cited by Comey.
Writing in the Times, former federal prosecutor Ankush Khardori argues that the Justice Department, despite its reluctance to discuss ongoing investigations, can and should tell the public more about the justification for the Mar-a-Lago search, including "the topical scope and nature of the department's work as it relates to Mr. Trump and his administration." Without such a disclosure, he says, "the public may struggle to separate fact from fiction or know what information it can trust. Mr. Trump's supporters have decried the supposedly unwarranted, heavy-handed tactics of the department, portraying him as the victim of a political witch hunt at the hands of the opposing party. And much of the liberal legal commentary on Mr. Trump that you'll find on the cable news networks turned out to be wrong before."
CNN reports that the FBI had previously recovered "sensitive national security documents" from Mar-a-Lago based on a grand jury subpoena. If the main goal of this week's search was securing additional classified material, the FBI chose a very provocative way to do that. When federal agents search the home of a former president who is the leading contender to oppose the current president in the next election, they had better have a very good reason, since charges of political motivation are inevitable.
Baker notes that President Joe Biden "has not publicly demanded that the Justice Department lock up Mr. Trump the way Mr. Trump publicly demanded that the Justice Department lock up Mr. Biden and other Democrats." He adds that no one has "knowledgeably contradicted the White House statement that it was not even informed about the search at Mar-a-Lago beforehand, much less involved in ordering it."
Those assurances, of course, will carry zero weight with Trump's most loyal supporters. But even Americans who are not particularly fond of Trump will naturally wonder about the propriety and necessity of such an unprecedented search.
If the FBI was seeking evidence that could support criminal charges against Trump, it would be nice to have some clue as to what those charges might be. Without that information, it is hard to assess whether the FBI's tactics were "unwarranted" and needlessly "heavy-handed," as they frequently have proven to be in other cases.
"We shouldn't let former leaders get away with whatever they want just because the optics of investigating them [look] bad," Nolan Brown noted after the raid. "But there better be something bigger here than simply taking some documents." So far, it does not look that way.
Update: Attorney General Merrick Garland today announced that the Justice Department has asked Reinhart to unseal the Mar-a-Lago warrant in light of the furor provoked by Trump's description of the search. The DOJ also supports unsealing a redacted version of the "property receipt" listing the items that the FBI seized.
"The public's clear and powerful interest in understanding what occurred under these circumstances weighs heavily in favor of unsealing," the DOJ's motion says. "That said, the former President should have an opportunity to respond to this Motion and lodge objections, including with regards to any 'legitimate privacy interests' or the potential for other 'injury' if these materials are made public." Trump, who could have shared the warrant and property receipt already if he was inclined to do so, responded by saying he is "ENCOURAGING the immediate release of those documents."
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How dare Sullum using whataboutism talking about hillary!!! - sarc.
Hey, at least Reason is finally admitting to being democrat
An uncharacteristically self aware title on this article
They literally did.
Things Trump did not do in response to the search of Mar a Lago:
1) Immediately publish the warrant return and its attachments:
2) Allege to the public that none of the things listed on the return had been in Mar a Lago, and that law enforcement was making up the entire list.
3) File court motions for relevant relief as would have regarded #2:
4) Express confidence that he would prevail in the courts, instead of lying about what was going on to the public
5) Revive his claim that the 2016 Iowa causes were rigged and phony and that he, and not Ted Cruz was the rightful winner of them;
6) Talk to the public about the final settlement of his divorce from Ivana, which forbid Ivana from talking to anybody about their marriage without his permission;
7) Hold the promised press conference explaining how Melania obtained her "genius" visa.
8) Release his tax returns, which he previously said he would "love" to do
9) Acknowledge that climate change is measurable, and occurring;
10) Congratulate Congress for approving of Sweden's and Finland's membership in NATO:
11) Travel to areas of the country recently impacted by natural disasters, and offer to help some of the people in need
12) Apologize for his monstrous history of misogyny, and promise to attempt to do better on that score in the future;
13) Explain what the mid-July subpoena was for, and why it was not responded to in a timely fashion.
If you want to see the failing nature if public schools, just look at the declining intelligence of the leftists who post here like Scott.
1) Sono un centrista;
2) Lei non ha idea di quali scuole ho frequentato;
3) Parlo correntemente cinque lingue e ne so leggere altre cinque;
4) Conosco davvero queste lingue, a differenza di Melania, che afferma di conoscere l'italiano ma non sa parlarlo oltre a contare da 1 a 10, se quello.
Oh, you really got him!
Bonjour l'extrémiste de gauche. Vous n'êtes pas le seul à pouvoir parler une autre langue. Même le sarcasmic peut probablement dire peu de mots espagnols.
De plus, en raison de votre choix de mots, je suppose que vous ne parlez pas italien et que vous utilisez Google Translate.
Tu ne trompes personne, Shrike.
"12) Apologize for his monstrous history of misogyny"
Hahaha, What the fuck.
This coming from a guy who voted for this.
Also,
"1) Immediately publish the warrant return and its attachments:
As Leftshot pointed out earlier today, the DOJ and FBI have been playing hide and seek with the warrant all week. They are unsealing the search warrant because a federal judge ordered them to do so in court yesterday.
Trump has had the warrant return and attachments all week, and all week he has been at liberty to make it public, but has not done so.
Please explain how Trump can legally make public a sealed warrant.
Cite?
"le sarcasmic" is not French.
"dire peu de mots espagnols" does not mean what you apparently intended it to mean.
In your sentence beginning "De plus", there is more than one mistake. Can you identify them?
“le sarcasmic" is not French”
I don’t speak French, but sarcasmic is a name here. A sad, drunken, pathetic name, but a name nonetheless.
Сарказмик Anyone who says that’s not Russian can meet me in the parking lot after 7th period!!
Copypasting all your talking points at once. Usually you guys parcel them out over the course of the thread.
From February 2019:
"WHISTLEBLOWERS RAISE GRAVE CONCERNS WITH TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S EFFORTS TO TRANSFER SENSITIVE NUCLEAR TECHNOLOOGY TO SAUDI ARABIA"
So in response to being called out for posting talking points, you post talking points in all caps?
You should ask for reassignment. This is going poorly.
Do you think that Mar a Lago was searched in the same week that Trump pleaded the Fifth in a deposition because radical left Democrats are out to get him, or because he engaged in dubious behaviour? What is your understanding of why the Trump Foundation was legally compelled to close? Do you think Trump was treated unfairly in that case?
Not a single thing you wrote reflects reality.
Not a word.
Impressive.
The reality is that in 2016, Trump was actively attempting to secure a deal for a Moscow tower, and needed Putin's approval for the deal. He lied by saying he had no pending business in Russia. The documented proof of this came to light through the prosecution of Michael Cohen. Trump's explanation, after the fact became public knowledge, was that he needed a Plan B, in case he did not win the election. In 2016, there was nothing wrong with Trump having potential business in Russia. What was unethical and unpatriotic on his part was to lie to us about it. How pathetic for you that you claim this is untrue, even though Trump himself has acknowledged it is true.
Is this another Jeffy sock?
Who's this lunatic?
Some one who is trying to get libertarians that are too smart to fall for culture war nonsense to accidentally trip into a culture war pit around trump obviously. It's really pathetic how tds has played out.
Do you mean like the Republicans loved the FBI for investigating Hilary and now do not like them?
Do you mean like the Republicans loved the FBI for investigating Hilary and now do not like them?
Yes, I remember how, after the FBI stepped up and said that while they found crimes that Hillary had committed they weren't pursuing it because they thought no one would convict, the Republicans were cheering for them.
What? That didn't happen?
In one week, Trump had his golf club hotel searched, and he pleaded the Fifth in a deposition.
Let's put on our thinking caps.
Did all of this happen in one week because everybody is out to get Trump, or because Trump engaged in shady behavior?
My thinking cap tells me a 6 year witch hunt that has yet to culminate in any charges is an indicator of what the answer to your question is.
The nuclear talking point is comical. Knowing Trump had those documents the FBI waited a year and a half to come after them.
The NY DA RAN on getting Trump. Does that sound like a fair trial in the making or a place where one may need all the protection they could get, like pleading the 5th.
Salem in the 1600s treated the witches more fairly before they burned them at the stake.
Before the NY AG"s current investigation, she investigated the Trump Foundation, found a "shocking Pattern of criminality," closed it down, and fined Trump $2 million. The final court doc in the Trump Foundation case is public. It includes a rap sheet of the financial crimes Trump committed, leading to the closure of the foundation. Would you care to argue that Trump broke no laws in that matter? And imagine somebody running to be D.A. by announcing an intent to bring a brazen criminal to justice.
It’s certainly a witch-hunt. Look, you’re wasting your time here. You’re a democrat shill. You’re going to get torn up real bad, like when your pal Buttplug rapes toddlers.
Come now, Scott, you don't have a 'thinking cap', you've got a funnel.
Your masters excrete talking points through it into the space where real people have brains.
This jealousy, while understandable, is just a by-product of that process.
He’s really work g those Media Matters talking points, isn’t he’s.
Most of them are just angry at beat cops, not actual powers that be.
In before a user that posts on this site a lot gives a sarcastic claim about Reason never writing these types of articles.
Orgasmically sarcastic remarks perhaps?
I reject this article's premise that any objective observer could conclude that the FBI and the judge who signed the search warrant in this matter abused their powers.
Some of the known facts: 1) Trump stole government documents, some of which are top secret and/or classified and they implicate national security matters; 2) Trump refused to return all of the stolen materials, despite having been first politely requested to return them, and having been subpoenaed for them.
Again, Trump stole documents. Trump refused to return all of the stolen documents. The government taking the stolen documents back is not an abuse.
Beyond that, this article doesn't contemplate why Trump stole these materials and what he was doing with them. Trump took particular national security documents with ideas of what to do with them. He did not take random mementos from the White House.
Of course, your facts are suppositions.
And past Presidents have a SCIF (look it up) in their homes for a reason.
My facts are suppositions?
It's true that I rely on the government's and judges' words to conclude that the documents Trump stole from the White House are classified and implicate national security.
However, in order to believe that the documents are not classified, and that Trump only took cocktail napkins and silverware from the White House, one would have to believe that everybody from national security officers to federal judges were liars, and Trump alone was the truth-teller in this.
Because of Trump's history of pathological, self-serving lying, and my belief that national security officers and judges would not waste their time trying to retrieve cocktail napkins and silverware from Mar a Lago, I assert that it is reasonable to trust the courts that concluded that Trump stole national security documents and refused to return all of them.
If you want to give the benefit of the doubt to that guy who stood next to Putin in Helsinki promoting Putin's word over that of our intelligence agencies, be my guest.
"" I assert that it is reasonable to trust the courts that concluded that Trump stole national security documents and refused to return all of them.""
No court has concluded that this is true.
These would be the same courts that were fine with people altering documents to say the exact opposite of their original meaning, but marxists like Scott don't care about truth, only power.
>>I rely on the government's and judges' words
>>my belief that national security officers and judges would not waste their time
you may have taken a wrong turn at Albuquerque
What a gullibull, what a nincowpoop!
I rely on the government's and judges' words to conclude
Supposition.
And again, past Presidents have a SCIF for a reason.
I don't know why you think you have a relevant point, in talking about past presidents having SCIFs.
You infer that Trump would have a security clearance, and thus an authorized use for an SCIF.
Presidents are not automatically granted security clearances when they leave office.
Biden denied a security clearance to Trump because of his "erratic behavior."
Biden denied a security clearance to Trump because of his "erratic behavior."
*spits drink all over monitor*
an authorized use for an SCIF
Past Presidents have a SCIF at their homes.
Pretty sure Shrike got new talking-points today, and they haven't got all the kinks worked out yet.
Bias score: 9.5/10
Tap the gauge. It might be stuck.
Yes, I am biased against the guy who stood next to Putin in Helsinki promoting Putin's word over that of our intelligence agencies.
I admit that I do not trust Trump.
I admit that I think Trump is profoundly dishonest and warped.
I also confess that I believe General Milley when Milley tells us that Trump expressed to him 1) disparagement of our wounded troops; and 2) admiration of the way he imagines Nazi generals viewed Hitler.
I am "biased" against that vile and disgusting "man."
This is a comments section, not the jury in a criminal case.
Did he have a big red reset button with him?
Or get caught on an open mic talking about increased flexibility after an election?
"Yes, I am biased against the guy who stood next to Putin in Helsinki promoting Putin's word over that of our intelligence agencies."
I would take virtually anybody's word over our intel agencies.
How pathetic for you, that you suggest Putin was telling the truth, but our intelligence agencies were not, given that it is irrefutably documented that Russia attacked our 2016 elections, the Trump campaign knew about and welcomed the assistance, and then lied about it.
And again, Paul Manafort has confessed to selling U.S. voter data to a Russian agent.
We have dozens of examples in the last 5 years of our IC lying.
IN RE: Trump in Helsinki
We had PROOF at that time of Russia attacking our 2016 elections. Leave aside the question of whether the Trump campaign colluded with Russians.
The relevant question in Helsinki was whether Putin/Russia had attacked our elections.
They absolutely had.
Trump said he believed Putin when Putin said Russia had not attacked our elections.
This is the SPECIFIC matter in question.
What some U.S. intelligence agents did, or did not do, at some other time, involving some other matter, is OF NO IMPORT to this specific question.
Putin/Russia DID attack our 2016 elections.
Trump nonetheless stood in public in Helsinki and said he believed Putin when Putin falsely alleged Russia had not attacked our 2016 elections.
JFC.
We had PROOF at that time of Russia attacking our 2016 elections.
You morons use this all the time like it's some kind of smoking gun.
Of course the Russians tried to influence our elections to their benefit. And the US tries to influence Russian elections to OUR benefit.
Every nation that CAN do this DOES do it. It's called 'normal politics'.
I should note as well. An intelligent person can assume multiple groups are lying.
That leaves the leftist bots out
Yeap.
The FBI absolutely lied to the FISA court 4 times concerning the Steele dossier to obtain warrants to spy on the Trump team.
Carter Page had left the Trump campaign, and was not part of "the Trump team," at the time the warrants to surveil Carter Page were issued.
Yet...they spied on Trump regardless.
Odd.
With literally no justification.
Bootlicker.
Nice redirect now explain away the lies told by the FBI to obtain the warrants.
I don't try to explain it away.
But, as with police who violate their duties, a single FBI agent doing something wrong -- in this case, Clinesmith -- does not invalidate the mission of the entire FBI.
England's colonization of India in the WWII era included crimes against humanity, but it doesn't mean England was wrong to seek to defeat Hitler.
Clinesmith was wrong to say on the warrant application that Carter Page was "not a source" for the CIA, but that doesn't negate the entire mission to understand the 2016 Trump campaign's illicit contacts with umpteen Russian agents.
You think it was one person. Lol.
"Under the applicable rules, FISA warrant applications must be signed by senior Justice Department officials. With respect to the warrants to spy on Page, the first application in October 2016 was signed by then-FBI Director James Comey and then-Deputy Attorney General Sally Yates. Collyer approved the application.
The second application in January 2017 also was signed by Comey and Yates. Judge Michael Mosman approved the application.
The third application in April 2017 was signed by Comey and then-acting Attorney General Dana Boente. Judge Anne Conway approved the application."
Finally, the fourth application in June 2017 was signed by then-Deputy FBI Director Andrew McCabe and then-Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein. The application was approved by Judge Raymond Dearie.
https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/warrants-spy-trump-campaign-lacked-probable-cause-doj-admits
He was still emailing the Trump team personnel. The warrants give 2 jump allowance. Meaning they could spy on the campaign.
How ignorant are you?
The campaign was over at the time the warrant was issued.
Who on the Trump team did Carter Page email after the warrant was issued?
I understood both Trump and Carter to say that they were having nothing to do with each other at the time.
Crossfire hurricane started in the summer of the election dummy.
It is amazing watching idiots rationalize authoritarians.
He's copypasting off a cheat sheet. He doesn't have to rationalize a thing.
The Carter Page warrant was not issued in the summer of the election, genius.
He was, however, working as an asset for the CIA, a fact which the FBI actively concealed from the FISA judge, to the point of changing the document to say he "wasn't" working as an asset for the CIA.
Oddly my comment regarding Carter Page and the surveillance warrant was then inserted nowhere near the original mention to which I was responding, making it incomprehensible.
I agree that Carter Page should not have been surveilled at that time.
I agree that what the agent did in writing that Carter was not working with the CIA, when in fact he was, was extremely bad.
Condemnable, even, no matter the motivation.
If intentional, much worse than if not intentional, but even if it was a non-intentional error, it was extremely bad, and a kind of thing that should never happen.
With all that said, it does not negate that it was orders of magnitude worse for Trump to say "Russia, if you're listening," and then on that same day, Russians attempted to hack into Clinton's emails.
You tell ME why Trump fired Mike Flynn.
You tell ME why Flynn was seated at Putin's table along with Jill Stein for the celebration of the 10th anniversary of Putin's propaganda organ.
You tell ME why, testifying to the Select Committee, Flynn pleaded the Fifth when asked "Do you believe in the peaceful transition of power in the United States of America?"
What happened to Carter Page is TERRIBLE.
There is no acceptable attempted excuse for it.
What Trump did with Russia and Putin is orders of magnitude worse.
All your Trump/Russia fever dreams have long since been discredited.
"It's true that I rely on the government's and judges' words to conclude that the documents Trump stole from the White House are classified and implicate national security."
Court has not concluded that and lord knows the government has never lied.
Again, did Trump get his golf club hotel searched, and plead the Fifth in a deposition all in one week because everybody's out to get him, or because he engaged in shady behavior?
Remember, Rump tells the public that the NY AG is investigating him because she is "racist."
Not a thing in her professional record shows that she has pursued White people disproportionately and/or for unjustified reasons.
She shut the Trump Foundation down, in fact, for a set of undeniable facts.
Not a single thing she has said or done remotely suggests she is "racist."
Yet Trump says she is pursuing him because he is White, and many of his supporters believe this ludicrous counterfactual thing.
"Again, did Trump get his golf club hotel searched, and plead the Fifth in a deposition all in one week because everybody's out to get him, or because he engaged in shady behavior?"
Out to get him. Not a hard question.
"However, in order to believe that the documents are not classified, and that Trump only took cocktail napkins and silverware from the White House, one would have to believe that everybody from national security officers to federal judges were liars, and Trump alone was the truth-teller in this."
Russiagate says hello. That exact thing is what happened.
The Trump campaign had umpteen illicit contacts with Russian agents. The Trump campaign lied about those contacts. Paul Manafort recently confessed that he sold U.S. voter data to a Russian agent. He said he did it to open up future job possibilities for himself.
Your counterfactual denial of Trump's shabby and outrageous behavior in the Russia matter is duly noted.
Hillary hired a foreign British national whose main sources were russians...
Correction: The Free Beacon, a right-leaning publication, originally hired Steele, a known British expert on Russia, whose sources were inside Russia but not necessarily Russians themselves.
The Steele dossier was presented as raw intelligence, not as a final investigative product.
Steele is more reliable on Trump than Trump is on himself.
Did you mainline inject journalist? Youre just regurgitating every leftist talking point no matter how thoroughly it has been debunked.
Journolist*
Steele is more reliable on Trump than Trump is on himself. Though I'm sure he'll be releasing his tax returns any day now.
For the record: you believe the Steele dossier is true?
Has the IRS seen them?
“umpteen”
I love the way you inspire confidence with your use of specific facts.
Do I believe the Steele dossier is true?
I believe the Steele dossier was raw intelligence.
As always with raw intelligence, some percentage of it will not be correct.
I believe that some parts of the Steele dossier are accurate and have been verified, and that other parts have been verified as inaccurate.
This is the nature of raw intelligence.
Steele himself never claimed that everything in the dossier was accurate.
The reason I said "umpteen," is that hundreds of such contacts are documented, and it is reasonable to hypothesize that there were more.
You’re a good example of who needs to go when you democrats are removed from this country.
Guilt by association for the government? Never!
Guilt by association for trump? Always!
Yea, I mean there are multiple instances where exactly that happened.
Indeed, exactly that has been the norm and more often the case than honest action, or even just dishonest action limited to one or two people.
“My facts are suppositions?
It's true that I rely on the government's and judges' words to conclude that the documents Trump stole from the White House are classified and implicate national security.”
Please tell us you don’t know what “suppositions” means without telling us you don’t know what “suppositions” means.
Those very same officials and judges screwed the pooch when it came to Carter Page, and a FISA warrant, by its very nature ought to be even more heavily scrutinized than a search warrant. The problem is that a warrant is not an adversarial process, and all of the checks and balances are inherently broken. One agent says "I have an extremely trustworthy informant who tells me that Trump has the nuclear launch codes and plans to destroy them if he hears we are after them" and that is going to be good enough. The judge can't verify that said informant actually exists or is trustworthy. Same goes for Garland. They can make sure that the warrant is, well, warranted, based on the claims, but nobody is actually going to independently verify the claims until a defendant ends up in court. So, at best, all of those checks and balances might help catch the occasional incompetence; they are absolutely powerless to stop malfeasance.
The "stolen documents" explanation frankly just doesn't make a whole lot of sense without some more details. Trump had the right to declassify whatever he wanted. He had also already turned over 15 boxes worth of stuff. Why the heck would he steal what he could legitimately have by doing a bit of paperwork before leaving office? And why, when he has shown willingness to hand over other documents, should we presume that he "stole" the rest?
The rumor going around the media is that the national archives believed that he should turn over some documents and Trump's lawyers disagreed. I can absolutely believe that the archivists take too broad of a view of their powers, just as I can believe that Trump's lawyers take too narrow of a view of those powers. Trump's lawyers often take positions that are aggressive and not realistic. But, between the vaccine mandate, the TSA mask mandate, and the 2nd CDC eviction moratorium, the current administration has similarly demonstrated a delusional view of its own powers. So, I find both parties equally deserving of doubt and don't know who to trust. But I do know that this new trend of trying to criminalize differences of legal interpretation is something I am seriously not a fan of (especially when unequally applied; Biden openly flouted the Court with the 2nd eviction moratorium and didn't revive so much as a wrist slap).
Let us grant everything you say about the problematic warrant process. In this instance, the target has ample funds to seek all available legal relief. He can challenge the warrant. He can attempt to prove to the Court that the FBI removed his personal property from his building. If the warrant was granted on the basis of falsehoods, he can sue the perpetrator of the falsehoods. But what is he doing instead? At present, he is alleging he wants "the documents" released, but not releasing them himself, even though he is at liberty to do so.
Meanwhile, this search grew out of a grand jury investigation, about which Trump already knew. Were you his attorney, what advice would you have given him? I would have told him to return all government property to the government immediately. Had he not taken that advice, I would have filed a motion to withdraw.
It is currently unclear whether the Trump legal team actually has a copy of the warrant and property register. Reporting has been contradictory on that front.
I doubt that I would advise my client to rollover as soon as I heard that a grand jury had been convened. The typical assumption would have been that such a grand jury was there to subpoena records, at which point, I would finally have the ability argue my case to a judge instead of some bureaucrat. I very much doubt anyone could have expected that it would instead lead to a search warrant.
top secret and/or classified
TS isn't classified?
The perils of ActBlue copypasta. I've seen these idiots parroting the Newsweek coverage on this almost word-for-word, too.
Not all classified material is top secret. Off the top of my head, other categories include "confidential", and "sensitive".
-jcr
Top Secret
Secret
Confidential
That's it. Anything besides that (NOFORN, SCI, etc) is a restriction.
we are talking democrats and republicans..... not objective observers. for most of these people, it is more about the teams than the facts.
i think at the end of the day, the question won't be if it was justified, but if it was smart. what you say is true.... we do know he had boxes of documents, and we do know he was told to give them back, and we do know he gave some back and was dragging his feet on the rest. so, it was definitely justified to go and take them back.
what we don't know is exactly what was in those boxes and why he was dragging his feet to give them back. unless there was some serious national security data or evidence of a MAJOR crime the raid was probably not smart. if nothing big and undeniable comes out of this raid, it will just entrench and grow the MAGA cult. (and it will have to be something way bigger than simple mishandling classified material, because they let Hillary slide for basically the same thing.... the MAGAs thrive on whataboutism.)
Nailed it ^^
"the MAGAs thrive on whataboutism"
The irony: you're posting this comment on an article by a TDS-addled, far left progressive, who is part of a website full of far left progressives that leverage whataboutism daily against non-progressives.
Of course they do. They don’t have logical arguments or evidence.
Trump is a wholly repulsive and disgusting individual.
In January 2021, the Republican Congressman Mike Turner of Ohio called Trump "disgraced and discredited."
The Trump Foundation was legally compelled to close because of a "shocking pattern of criminality" detailed in the court documents for the case.
Trump routinely shafted relatively small contractors by not paying them. He behaved as a predator, searching out people to exploit, based on their having skills he needed, but not money they would need to survive an entire litigation to get the money they had earned from him.
Trump deliberately and knowingly fanned the exponential spread of COVID-19 by mocking people for taking precautionary measures, and holding large rallies with no masks and no social distancing.
A result of Trump's egregious, actionable misconduct is that the U.S. among developed nations has the highest per capita COVID-19 death rate.
I could go on.
Anybody who still supports Trump is a lowlife.
the U.S. among developed nations has the highest per capita COVID-19 death rate.
Did more die under Trump, without a vaccine (for the first 6 months) or Biden, with a vaccine and a 3-month head start on vaccination?
"A result of Trump's egregious, actionable misconduct is that the U.S. among developed nations has the highest per capita COVID-19 death rate."
Biden more than doubled that death rate.
With a vaccine. And medicine having some idea how to treat it.
No, Biden did not double that death rate.
Militant ignorance in the populace cultivated by Trump doubled that death rate.
It is hardly Biden's fault if certain people refused to get vaccinated and/or refused to take certain other precautions.
And overwhelmingly, the no vaxxers are Trump supporters.
"I'm not gonna take it." - Kamala Harris about the vaccine
Kamala Harris said that she would take the vaccine if doctors said it was safe to take, but not if Trump said it was safe, and doctors didn't.
Don't misrepresent what she said.
When did the doctors say it wasn't safe? Well besides latest research on VAERS and DMED.
Uh-huh and remind me again how Trump was the one who cultivated the 'militant ignorance". Was it when he pushed Operation Warp Speed to get the vaccine, or when he said during the debate (and was attacked for it) that we would have a vaccine before the end of the year, or when he told people to get it?
The ones pushing skepticism of the vaccine were Biden and Harris, so blame them, not Trump. Indeed, Biden repeatedly attacked the vaccine because of Trump's involvement, (until he got into power and did a 180 and started mandating it). Here's a few choice quotes:
"Let me be clear. I trust vaccines. I trust scientists. But I don't trust Donald Trump. And at this moment, the American people can't either."
"We can't allow politics to interfere with a vaccine in any way. Americans have had to endure President Trump's incompetence and dishonesty when it comes to testing and personal protective equipment. We can't afford to repeat those fiascos when it comes to a vaccine, when it occurs. The stakes are too high."
"First of all, I hope like hell that we have a vaccine. But discovering a safe vaccine is not enough if it gets distributed the same way Trump's testing and PPE have gotten distributed. The road from approval to injection is a long road, and we need a plan."
"My guess is (Trump) is going to announce a vaccine, he's going to say it's going to be available around Election Day, he's going to hype it ... but look what every major scientist outside his political appointees have been saying about what he's been doing so far with regard to health."
"No, because they know (Trump) doesn't have any respect for scientists. He basically said it."
Biden (and Harris) repeatedly attacked the vaccine as a way to score political points against Trump and that is a fact.
Yes or no: Did Trump hold rallies during the height of the pandemic and boast that they were maskless with no social distancing?
When Trump was going to hold a maskless, no distancing rally in Tulsa, did Tulsa elected officials beg him to cancel, because their hospitals were already over capacity?
Two weeks after Trump's Tulsa rally, was there a dramatic increase in COVID cases in Tulsa?
Which prominent Trump supporter attended the Tulsa rally, contracted COVID and died of it?
First and foremost, most Americans who died of COVID-19 died under FJB's watch.
Second, remember this?
http://ethicsalarms.com/2020/06/08/oh-no-its-monday-ethics-review-6-8-2020-a-yoos-rationalization-orgy/
"No, Biden did not double that death rate."
The numbers very much prove otherwise. Below 300,000 under Trump. Over 1M now.
"It is hardly Biden's fault if certain people refused to get vaccinated and/or refused to take certain other precautions."
79% of the country got at least one dose. 67% were fully vaccinated. CDC figures there, son.
You're, as usual, wrong.
The first Sentanced is true, and yet he is still better than Hillary and biden
I love President Biden because he so authentically cares about average Americans.
Kentucky is overwhelmingly a red state.
Yet, unlike Trump, who tried to punish Blue states by delaying disaster declarations for them following natural disasters, Biden immediately offered federal assistance to Kentucky after the recent floods, and he went there and met with average Kentuckians, comforting them, and assuring them that the federal government was going to help them until "you're back to where you were."
Wow! you love him do you?
You must be who he's looking to shake hands with every time he leaves a podium... such a loyal lickspittle.
Okay. It is official. This is parody.
Or sarcs new sock. Can't tell.
Yep parody
No. I think it's of prime importance for a U.S. President to have and be able to express empathic understanding of average American's suffering when they are impacted by natural disasters.
As many mistakes as George Bush made in the lead-up and the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, I never had the sense that President Bush was contemptuous of the victims.
By contrast, often when natural disasters struck in "blue" states or territories, Trump was contemptuous of the victims, refused to issue disaster declarations, taunted people with stupidity about raking forests, and so on.
During the hurricane, Trump's malicious attacks on Puerto Rican officials, his refusal to send the hospital boat in a timely fashion, and so on -- just despicable.
I remember when superstorm Sandy struck the east coast.
Governor Christie had been saying terrible things about President Obama, personal attacks.
Obama set it all aside, traveled to New Jersey, shook Governor Christie's hand and promised the state the needed assistance.
I can't think of any other president, than Trump, who ever acted contemptuously towards Americans in a natural disaster.
"I am not a shipping clerk."
You love Biden?
I hope he loves being deposited in a landfill somewhere. Since that’s where Marxist zealots like him will end up since they’re too stupid to leave voluntarily.
“In January 2021, the Republican Congressman Mike Turner of Ohio called Trump "disgraced and discredited."”
You stand by the statements of Republicans?
bigger irony.... you guys love it here, and can't get enough of it. all that uncensored ability to tap angrily on your keyboards at them. all you have to do to keep the anger flowing is ignore about half of the article.
Fuck off and die, asshole.
SQUAWK- TDS, TDS, fuck off and die.... SEVO want a cracker.
Why do you think "big and undeniable" would be of any significance to Trump supporters?
It is undeniable that during the hours the Capitol was under attack, Trump refused to place a single call for backup help.
Some Capitol police were left permanently disabled after Trump supporters violently attacked them.
The above is "big and undeniable" but doesn't make an iota of difference to Trump supporters.
What General Mattis wrote into his resignation letter is "big and undeniable."
It is big and undeniable that Trump lost the 2020 election, and has no evidence to support his lie, alleging that he actually won.
Why would "big and undeniable," in this, be any different?
"Big and undeniable" is not the standard by which we should judge this legal matter, because we've already seen that "big and undeniable" is not necessarily of any influence on Trump or his supporters.
it is true that the most brainwashed would not be swayed by anything. but, if you are going to raid him, it must yield actionable evidence for a major conviction or it will only feed that movement.
a particular skill of the MAGA movement is tossing BS and misdirection to deflect/excuse/obscure/ignore the clear evidence those with more objective views can see. all the things you say are true, and all of them are able to pretend they are not. they are all about emotion, and that emotion is anger. if this raid does not come out as non-political and providing enough evidence for a conviction on something Hillary didn't get away with.... it feeds them... it feeds the paranoid feeling they are under attack, it feeds the feeling that they have to fight, and it leaves enough doubt for them to continue to ignore reality. if it does not nail him firmly to the wall for something bigger than not giving boxes back fast enough...... it makes the problem worse.
Eat shit and die, assshole.
SQUAWK!! look at the little parrot who only knows a few insults and that is all it can say.
"It is undeniable that during the hours the Capitol was under attack, Trump refused to place a single call for backup help."
He'd requested they accept Natl Guard help for days beforehand and was ignored.
C'est la vie.
"Some Capitol police were left permanently disabled after Trump supporters violently attacked them."
More were in that condition 5/29/20
"What General Mattis wrote into his resignation letter is "big and undeniable.""
Yes, he was quite upset he was not allowed to kill dark-skinned folks. Shame, really.
1) The claim that Trump called for additional National Guard help "for days beforehand and was ignored" is a FALSEHOOD. This question has been thoroughly investigated. Two Trump administration figures made this false allegation to the public, but, under oath and testifying to the Select Committee, confessed it is not true.
2) The debunked claim that Trump called in advance for National Guard troops IS NO EXCUSE for his not calling for backup in the hours the Capitol was under attack:
3) Your interpretation of Mattis's resignation letter is despicable:
4) Your whataboutism about 5/29/20 is irrelevant. We try to keep all of our peace officers safe. It is especially horrifying that a president knew police were under attack and refused to call for backup.
What benefit do you personally get from trying to defend Trump when things he has done are indefensible?
This is how you know this is parody. He blatantly lies on known facts like 1). The memos exist and have been admitted to by the Capitol Police and others including the d.c. mayor.
False.
Or to put in another way, are the memos you allege to exist, reproduced anywhere online, and if so, where is a link to them?
Hello?
Hello?
Will that get Mattis in trouble with the rest of the Theranos board?
Theranos is still around and super successful, right?
When Trump withdrew U.S. troops from a portion of Syria, he announced his decision with a tweet, giving our troops no time to plan for a safe and orderly withdrawal.
He left them to scramble for their lives.
Trump unilaterally decided to abandon our Kurdish allies.
Within hours of our troops leaving our military positions in Syria, Russian flags were flying over those abandoned U.S. military positions.
“He left them to scramble for their lives.”
Fucking Trump and his habit of taking operational control of military actions.
Sums up my thoughts.
Yet they are incorrect. Why do believe his lies?
Whose lies? Which lies?
Okay. It is a Mike sock.
"...Some of the known facts: 1) Trump stole government documents, some of which are top secret and/or classified and they implicate national security matters; 2) Trump refused to return all of the stolen materials, despite having been first politely requested to return them, and having been subpoenaed for them..."
You're full of shit.
SQUAWK TDS. TDS, full of shit, Sevo want a cracker.
Eat shit and die, asshole.
SQUAWK
He not worth it, Sevo.
Scott Rose premise:
DoJ and FBI say trump is lying
Acknowledges DoJ and FBI lie about trump
Therefore, Trump guilty
Do you see where your brain made a fool of itself?
Non sequitur broski, your reasoning does not follow, but it certainly appears your partisanry does.
Unless you think local police are for some reason less prone to abuse their powers than the FBI is (or vice versa), those partisan gaps are pretty hard to understand as a matter of principle.
My local PD has a whopping three cars. It's not really inconsistent for me to have a bit of faith in them while being skeptical about the feds. Not everyone lives in a big city with a well-resourced, bloated police department.
In fact, I'm guessing you'd find the divide falls much more clearly on urban/rural lines than partisan lines when it comes to faith in the local PD. There's obviously plenty of small towns with shitty police departments who try to fund the city through tickets, but they're dwarfed by the number of Mayberry's that have two cops that everyone in town recognizes.
I was going to post something similar regarding an urban/rural explanation.
In a small town, when you actually know most or all of the local cops (kids go to school together, see them out off duty, etc.) then you're likely to have higher levels of trust. Or maybe very high distrust and contempt... but then it's directed at an individual(s), not necessarily the police department.
Big city folks only ever see local police when they're gang-raping and murdering mostly peaceful protestors in the street... or something like that; I'm not from the city.
Imagine the degree of mental retardation of the person that says to you, "Your average local PD is about as likely to orchestrate the Russian Collusion/Steele Dossier investigation as the FBI is."
Yeah, the cities and states have some serious power, but compared to any part of the federal government, well...
P.S. -- Curiously, the beginning of this article criticizes Peter Baker for allegedly not giving a correct definition of probable cause.
The article link provided in an attempt to demonstrate that probable cause is "ill-defined" is not helpful, because it is about the reliability of drug-sniffing dogs. You have to compare apples with apples. That Trump stole documents he had no right to in the first place, and then refused to return all of them, is not even disputed by Trump! This has nothing to do with the reliability of drug sniffing dogs. It is, rather, a matter of whether Trump stole documents from the White House and refused to return all of them.
Let us work with this definition of probable cause:
"sufficient reason based upon known facts to believe a crime has been committed or that certain property is connected with a crime"
The same psychology at work in Trump document theft is expressed in his statements about "Grab them by the P." There, he confessed he doesn't wait for a woman's consent, he just sexually assaults her. Separately he said that he thought the U.S. should have just gone in and stolen Iraq's oil for itself. The man feels entitled to whatever he wants, whenever he wants it, no matter the law, and no matter anybody else's rights. In other words, he is a psychopath. "Grab them by the P" is the same psychology that makes him feel entitled to retain stolen documents.
Are you one of the opiod addicts that ENB discussed in this morning's linx?
Excuse me, beyond ad hominem insult, did you have a rational rebuttal to my definition of probable cause?
Insults are just insults; they're not ad hominem arguments you stupid fuck.
See? Insult. Not argument.
All the lefty idiots don't understand what fallacies are. They just scream them.
That's not an ad-hominem. An ad-hominem is when information known about the writer is used to discredit the work. Ie, "we can't trust a word Sullum says because he's a boot-licking faux-libertarian," would be an ad-hominem.
Reading someone's words and then thinking they might be insane because their words are nonsense is not an ad-hominem. It's an actual response to something you said, though done so in a dismissive and insulting manner.
Q.E.D. -- and you still haven't give a rational rebuttal of my offered definition of probable cause.
Your post wasn't rational in the first place.
Scott Rose's general ignorance as evinced by his misunderstanding of what ad hominem means tends to undermine his comment. 😉
Your comment is at the level of an immature junior high school student.
Which is pretty much deserved.
"Excuse me, beyond ad hominem insult, did you have a rational rebuttal to my definition of probable cause?"
Honestly, ad hominem is better than your mindless gibberish warrants.
And yet, I gave a definition of probable cause, and you said nothing of substance to counter it.
Probable cause is the topic of the opening of the above article.
How about a definition of ad hominem?
No cheating!
Poor Jacob, he can't catch a break.
"That Trump stole documents he had no right to in the first place, and then refused to return all of them, is not even disputed by Trump!"
When you lie so blatantly, kinda makes taking you seriously impossible, Sparkles.
This matter has unfolded over many, many months.
There is a (still incomplete) public record of what Trump did, what the government has attempted to do about it, and Trump's public statements about it.
This did not start on Monday of this week.
Everything I said in my comment is accurate.
To assemble the evidence would require 3,000 words and hyperlinks, which can't be inserted into comments here.
It is just absurd, how people are willing to defend Trump when he has done the indefensible.
Your comment was not accurate. When a president is in office he can not steal his own documents. Returning documents is always an action negotiated post presidency. He was working through that process. Nothing was stolen.
Your entire premise is based around ignorance.
No, a president may NOT take from the White House, any and everything he wants, and then later negotiate whether it gets returned or not.
That is NOT how it works.
"No, a president may NOT take from the White House, any and everything he wants, and then later negotiate whether it gets returned or not.
That is NOT how it works."
Steaming pile of TDS-addled shit invents straw-man regarding Trump and slays it! While ignoring HRC removing the WH silverware...
Eat shit and die, asshole.
TDS,TDS, eat shit and die.... SQUAWK.
You mean he can’t take the antique furniture?
As Jesse stated, it is a negotiation. The President has always been able to take the documents he thinks he is entitled to take. This is not stealing or misappropriation or whatever vague or incendiary term you want to use. It is how it is done.
Your premise is bad.
Also, you referenced the 'grab them by the pussy' talking point without its full context. You're disingenuous at best.
Be fair, ignorance is not the only basis, there is blind hatred of Trump and a sycophantic need to lick Pedo Pete's ass.
Insane bullshit. Both Biden & Harris are longtime prosecutors, as are a tremendous % of elected Democrats. NYC just elected a retired NYPD captain as Mayor.
Additionally, the whole premise of this article is a strawman distraction.
Currently, Republicans overwhelmingly are seized by a mass psychotic delusion in which they believe that Trump is entitled to do no matter what he wants, whenever he wants to do it, and no matter who is hurt in the process.
The Republican demonization of the FBI, over applying for, and then executing a search warrant at Mar a Lago, is a symptom of that Republican derangement.
By contrast, where Democrats want to see police performance improved, their desire for such improvement is based on things like their having seen video of a police officer placing his knee on a Black man's neck and killing him, for no justifiable reason.
Notice moreover that Trump says that those of his supporters who violently attacked Capitol police on January 6 should not be prosecuted and/or should be pardoned.
There, most Republicans continue supporting Trump, even as Trump justifies his supporters' anti-police violence.
We thus see that the one thing -- Republican attitudes towards DOJ/FBI -- has nothing whatsoever to do with the other thing -- Democrats' attitudes towards police.
Pick a topic -- 1) Trump's sociopathic thumbing of his nose at law enforcement and the Republican enabling of him in that, or; 2) Democrats' overall nuanced views of the police.
I see! You're parody. Sweet! OBL always looking for friends.
Currently, Republicans overwhelmingly are seized by a mass psychotic delusion
We'll not mention anything in the media over the last 6 years because we're all friends here.
The inviolable law of leftists: confession by projection
"overwhelmingly are seized by a mass psychotic delusion"
I love that this is the new mass leftist talking point. It shows just how strongly their nervous systems are screaming "ALERT! ALERT!" about the state of their conscious ideology.
Again, the contention is that Republicans overwhelmingly are seized by a mass psychotic delusion that "Trump is entitled to do no matter what he wants, whenever he wants to do it, and no matter who is hurt in the process."
The proof of that is everywhere you look.
Still lying about the election outcome, with no supporting evidence?
Check.
Still saying that those of his supporters who violently attacked Capitol police should not be prosecuted, and/or should be pardoned?
Check.
And on and on, with this kind of thing, that Republicans overwhelmingly previously would never have stood for, but now do.
"...The proof of that is everywhere you look..."
Vox is over there to your far left; please fuck off in that direction.
The proof of that is everywhere you look.
I just looked out the window and I saw all your proof. It’s nighttime here, so I didn’t see anything.
Who was hurt?
Biden's a long time prosecutor? News to me. That's an actual profession and I'm unaware that he ever had one other than professional politician.
It's not like the FBI would lie on a non-FISA warrant.
It's not like the FBI hasn't been caught lying on a non-FISA warrant; repeatedly & recently.
FTFY
It is true that the tolerable number of errors in warrant applications is zero.
It also is true that the Inspector General found an intolerable number of errors on warrant applications reviewed.
But, it additionally is true that the overwhelming majority of warrant applications reviewed (allegedly) did not contain errors.
More specific to the current issue of the warrant executed at Mar a Lago is that the target has rights he so far has not exercised.
Why has Trump not yet released the warrant return and attachments?
If Trump suspects the warrant was not properly issued, why has he not contested in court?
We are not dealing with the general situation of FBI errors here, we're dealing with a specific matter.
Why has Trump not yet shown us the warrant and attachments?
If he suspects he was wronged, why has he not contested the warrant in court, instead of complaining about it to the public?
A thing wrongly stated in a warrant application could or could not be "a lie."
A thing could, also, conceivably, be wrongly stated through human error.
But, we don't live in a country where targets of investigations don't have rights.
Specific to the search warrant executed at Mar a Lago, if Trump thinks it was improperly issued, why has he not had his attorneys file the relevant court motions?
Finally, we're back in agreement on Gitmo.
They, you know, did lie. Rather blatantly.
Bootlicker.
Reason Editors Don't Trust 'the Police,' but They Do Trust the FBI, Provided It Is Targeting Donald Trump
FIFY
Yes!
I have many reasons for despising Mitch McConnell, mostly having to do with his dirty tricks against Rand Paul, but keeping that scumbag Merrick Garland off the supreme court makes up for quite a lot of it.
-jcr
I guess.
Any politician could've done it though.
TLDR - Sullum goes with both sides here eh? I bet Reason Editors sit around confused why the commenters here dislike them so much.
Hint: You're all a bunch of dishonest hacks. Stop pretending to be libertarians. Admit your far left progressives. You'll feel better, I promise. Stop hiding in the closet.
I'm kind of tired of this false framing. There's a big difference between supporting local police officers and supporting federal government law enforcement. Moreover, there's a huge difference between being critical of the actions of law enforcement and considering law enforcement to systematically corrupt, racist, oppressive, and evil to the point of defunding law enforcement.
I hate the fact that false contextualization, false narratives, and straw man positions take up so much of journalism anymore.
Agreed.
I hate the fact that false contextualization, false narratives, and straw man positions take up so much of Reason.com and the MSM anymore.
FTFY
Just remember the magician's method. Distract the audience with patter while hiding your trick. All of these song and dance numbers serve only to hide the fact that the government is taking your liberty and your money every chance it gets.
DemocratsRepublicans Don't Trust 'the Police,' but They Do Trust the FBI, Provided It Is TargetingDonald TrumpHunter BidenWeird that with actual vivid evidence of multiple crimes...no raids on Hunter's residence or anything.
fucking closing fucking strike tag - give me an edit button!
Don’t blame reason for your drinking problem.
I blame drinking for my Reason problem.
It’s all connected.
IDK, "They Do Trust the FBI, Provided It Is Targeting [name redacted]" seems more hilariously appropriate.
agreed. the error made it better.
Democrats follow whatever their gods in the media and Party tell them
When it comes to Trump, I follow the facts.
It is a fact that Trump is a pathological liar.
It is a fact that Trump in Helsinki promoted Putin's word of that of U.S. intelligence agents.
It is a fact that upon learning of Putin's attack on Ukraine, Trump called Putin a "genius."
It is a fact that at a Rose Garden press conference on COVID-19, Trump disparaged an Asian-American reporter by sneering at her "Ask China!"
It is a fact that after DOJ sued Trump for refusing to sell or rent to Blacks, Trump violated the resulting consent decree and that among his violations of it, he destroyed documents he was obliged by law to retain.
It is a fact that Trump is so thin-skinned that when he was caught out in a lie about the track of a hurricane, he used a Sharpie to alter a weather forecast map to make it appear, against evidence, that he was right in what he said.
The man is trash.
George Floyd was as worthless a human being that ever walked the earth. A lifetime petty criminal, high on drugs trying to pass counterfeit money. However, that does not justify killing him.
Trump's character, or rather his lack of such, is not a justification for raiding his home. The only question of substance is whether or not he committed a crime.
Of course Trump committed a crime.
He stole documents from the White House!
He doesn't even deny having done it.
When this matter first came to public attention, reporters spoke with witnesses.
Aids alleged having told Trump that removing certain of these materials from the White House was against the law. He did it anyway.
We've seen this kind of behavior from him before.
He routinely violated the emoluments clause. Nobody held him accountable for it. Only once, when he wanted to use his Doral resort for a huge international political meeting, was enough public outrage sufficient to get him to back off.
But, Trump was bitterly resentful.
He said; "You people with this phony emoluments clause."
So he went from feeling entitled to violate the emoluments clause, to saying that the emoluments clause is "phony."
He thinks he is entitled to whatever he wants, whenever he wants it, and no matter who it hurts, and overwhelmingly Republicans agree with him on that.
Proof is not an affidavit from a whistle blower. That is only probable cause (if in fact the affidavit's claims are true). I'll await the trial, since none of the alleged evidence has been released yet.
And by killing him you mean being there while he OD'd on fentynol or do you mean the marxist fictional version of events?
No, I mean that no matter what Tucker Carlson, or you, say about the circumstances of Floyd's death, Floyd was murdered by the policeman.
So the fictional one.
"It is a fact that Trump is a pathological liar."
Yup. Lies a lot.
As compared to Presidents, he's middle of the road at best.
"It is a fact that Trump in Helsinki promoted Putin's word of that of U.S. intelligence agents."
Given how shit our intel agencies are...everybody should dismiss their concerns.
"It is a fact that upon learning of Putin's attack on Ukraine, Trump called Putin a "genius.""
Sarcasm as a "lie" is weak, even for...nah, it is expected of you.
"It is a fact that at a Rose Garden press conference on COVID-19, Trump disparaged an Asian-American reporter by sneering at her "Ask China!""
Is honesty anything you're capable of? You are just blatantly lying here.
There is video of Trump disparaging the Asian-American reporter.
His conduct there was disgusting, and the other reporters were shocked and disgusted.
Again, this is on video, but you're accusing me of lying about it.
Here's the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_IWReOz8YE
We're laughing because nobody cares that he said that...it's a perfectly reasonable thing to say considering China was using Wuhan labs to study bat-origin coronaviruses. And we know that because we have the NIH grants that say so.
To the contrary, the reporter asked a reasonable question, but a relevant response to it was not "Ask China"
That you laugh at this reaffirms my opinion of anybody who would support the bigoted lowlife Trump.
How disgusting he and his supporters are.
At the time of that press conference, he had already been told -- repeatedly -- that his use of the term "the China virus" was causing an increase in hate crimes against Asian-Americans.
So, so funny that he picks an Asian-American, to say "Ask China" to.
How humiliating for the United States to have so many people supporting this despicable bigoted lowlife.
"To the contrary, the reporter asked a reasonable question, but a relevant response to it was not "Ask China"..."
Notice our newest TDS-addled pile of shit makes this claim, and we are to accept it as TDS-addled piles of shit never lie!' Followed by:
--------------------------------------
"How humiliating for the United States to have so many people supporting this despicable bigoted lowlife."
How humiliating to have such fucking lowlifes presume to tell those of us not addled by TDS how to act.
Get fucked with a running, rusty chainsaw, asshole.
TDS,TDS.... SQUAWK!!!
"There is video of Trump disparaging the Asian-American reporter."
...by having her ask the country that created and intentionally spread it globally? THAT is "disparaging"?
Do you ever bother to actually watch the videos you link to?
It's hilarious how quickly its "reasonable commenter" act fell apart
When it comes to Trump, I follow the facts.
What a pathetic pile of shit; TDS-addled asshole whines about off-hand comments and 'crimes' which were not found in the many years of Trump fishing expeditions, all the while ignoring the fact that as POTUS, rump did a better job of protecting our freedoms and delivering prosperity since Silent Cal.
Fuck off and die, TDS-addled pile of shit.
SQUAWK!!!
Fuck off and die, asshole.
SEVO want a cracker
He brings up a video 2 yrs. after Trump is out of office, 2 yrs. before he left office where a reporter apologizes that she's not thinking and he agrees that he doesn't think any of them are thinking.
Imagine being so intellectually and morally bankrupt, so existentially vacuous that you hold onto a 'Yo mama' joke for 4 yrs... and the joke wasn't even about you.
I keep hearing that COVID broke a lot of things. I think a lot of things were broken well before COVID and Trump and COVID broke people's ability to keep their masks on.
When it comes to Trump, I follow the facts.
As given to me by the MSM to assuage my feelings. FTFY
Be fair. Democrats, like most humans, are generally ignorant morons who operate on emotional reasoning and partisan bias. If anything, they are currently more open and proud of doing that.
So, selective judgement and level 10 cognitive dissonance is no surprise.
What is interesting is that
Well said.
Probably his best post ever.
What is interesting is that Trump and his lawyers could block the release of the warrant. It will be interesting what they do with this choice, and it might be very informative if they block the release. Trump has generally blocked subpoenas for testimony or documents, will that change here?
Sorry for the above partial message. Clumsy fingers hit the submit early.
From the moment Trump's attorney possessed the warrant and attachments, Trump was at liberty to authorize the release of the warrant and attachments.
The fact Trump has kept them hidden until now, strongly suggests he will opt to keep them hidden.
That's rich coming from someone who follows media that did their damned hardest to downplay the Hunter Biden laptop. An affidavit is not proof, unlike what the New York Post posted.
Where is the warrant? The reason we haven't seen it yet is that Trump is hiding it.
The FBI raided Trump's property based on an affidavit, warrants be damned. Clearly you disregard principles like the 4th Amendment.
To the contrary, I take the 4th Amendment very seriously.
If Trump's property was wrongfully searched, why hasn't he filed court motions for the appropriate relevant relief?
Indeed, he hasn't even announced any intent to do any such thing.
If this search and seizure was unreasonable, why hasn't Trump done what one normally would do?
He's a billionaire, he can afford whatever legal help he requires.
Perhaps because it was yestarday and he and his legal staff are involved in planning, TDS-addled pile of shit?
TDS,TDS... SQUAWK
This is such a great response to Sevo.
The partial message was better. You should apologize for the longer post.
I think that we are missing a vital point. When the search warrant is "unsealed" it will still be heavily redacted. The FBI and government agencies in general, do not ever release a document that might incriminate an official without redacting everything incriminating.
That and the fact that he didn't even mention anything about the affidavit, even though it's more important than the warrant itself. We already know that the latter was approved by Garland and signed by a partisan, anti-Trump magistrate (which is in itself damning, since he should have recused himself).
Releasing the affidavit without charging the target would give the target grounds for dismissal of charges were they brought, i.e. DOJ can't release the affidavit without sinking its investigation.
You have no basis for claiming that the judge who signed the warrant is anti-Trump.
Trump nominated him!
Whose sock puppet that scott rose fella is? In any case, pls don't feed her... we have enough lying shills already...
I should have read what you wrote before I provided a meal.
To repeat the truth:
You say that what's most important to see is the affidavit filed with the warrant application.
The reason we can't see that right now is that publishing it would sink the investigation.
If the affidavit were published, and charges subsequently brought, Trump would file a motion to dismiss, and it would be granted, simply because the affidavit was published.
You can't accept these basic, neutral facts of how the law works without misgendering me and hurling other ridiculous insults at me.
Which is the reason Trump may not release the info, you lying ple of lefty shit.
TDS, TDS, lefty lefty.... SQUAWK
Without yet having reading the article, in all fairness, the title could be rephrased as, "Pro Trump Republicans Trust Unaccountable Local Police But Don't Trust The FBI, Provided It Goes After Trump"
Yes i am aware of my typos. Damn android autocorrect
Accept the typos. There is no other wey.
Implying that locals are less accountable than the FBI? Are you daft? I can run down the mayor, chief, or the local PBA rep if a local gets too big for his britches. Good luck getting your friendly neighborhood SAC on the line.
In what way did the FBI face any consequences for its substantial meddling in the 2016 election? Or its utter insubordination during the Trump presidency? Will it face any reckoning over protecting Biden in 2020? Or orchestrating a kidnapping plot against Michigan’s governor? Unaccountable might as well be in the bureau’s fucking bylaws.
What a selective history of the FBI you have recalled.
Your media diet is doing active harm to your brain. I'm just a concerned citizen.
What positive thing as the FBI done in the last 50 years?
Hell, what positive thing have they done in history other than fighting the Klan?
And now, they basically ARE the Klan.
Enforced federal criminal statutes. Do you want to get rid of all of those?
Well if we were going to go back to the abuses under Hoover, we would be here all day. The FBI has had a huge problem with a lack of accountability over the years.
Should we cover the time the FBI was under J. Edgar Hoover or is to selective for you?
What a selective history of the FBI you have recalled.
We could rehash the greatest hits if you want, but I think the latest albums have more than enough material.
The FBI might do a lot of good work, but it is a corrupt institution at its highest levels. Law enforcement really should be apolitical to the greatest extent possible, but the FBI just can't manage it in the age of Trump. The only question is how deep the rot goes, and if there's any reform that can save it.
Your media diet is doing active harm to your brain.
I don't think you have the slightest idea what my media diet actually consists of.
Let's face it, J. Edgar Hoover's FBI has been the federal Government's secret police since Franklin Roosevelt gave Hoover carte blanc in WW2. It remains the democrat party's secret police (German word is Gestapo) and has meddled in elections whenever it could damage republicans. It could find nothing wrong with Kennedy's election fraud in 1960 or Johnson's illegal spying during 1964 but replaced Nixon for trying to do what Kennedy and Johnson did. Both major parties are corrupt but J. Edgar Hoover's FBI does not investigate one of the parties--wonder why. The attorney general L. Beria may come after me for insulting his troops or maybe it will be the new IRS Army. Good luck America!
Read the replies from Claptrap, JeremyR, Ben or Houston and TRussotto.
Are you gonna try to refute them? I bet you can't!
"Democrats Don't Trust 'the Police,' but They Do Trust the FBI, Provided It Is Targeting Donald Trump"
A wonderfully facile headline. What passes for Reason Magazine these days tries to walk a line between actual liberty and offending its many MAGA authoritarian readers.
Sorry your butthole hurts so much.
What warrants less trust of the police than the FBI? Police are held accountable for their mistakes, the FBI typically isn't. There is also those who are in good relationships with the local cops. The same can't be said if FBI agents.
Enlighten us if you're so wise. I suspect you can't.
I have long argued that the federal government is by far less of a threat to individual liberty than local cops, but libertarians just can't seem to divorce their stated principles from their neoconfederate cultural origins. Or maybe, "There are no rights but property... and I get to define property" matches up pretty well.
My local cops are at least elected
You're right they can be just as tyrannical as the Federal Government. Back during the Obama years, our sheriff said he would form a truth squad and arrest anyone that say anything false about Obama.
He later recanted, but his ass got voted out of office
Congratulations on getting rid of a bad cop.
Absolutely correct. COINTELPRO was a long time ago. Sure, it was highly illegal, and targeted civil rights leaders and environmentalist groups. Sure, they blackmailed Martin Luther King Jr. Sure, there were forgeries and a few assassinations. But the FBI’s record has been impeccable since 2017. Compare that to your local police and the result is obvious.
Police are a necessary evil, but the FBI are just evil.
"In Mr. Trump's first year in office, as he attacked the F.B.I. over the Russia investigation"
Cannot imagine why they'd be deserving of ANY criticism over it.
And yet, the 2016 Trump campaign had umpteen illicit contacts with Russian agents and then lied about those contacts.
Donald Trump, Jr. was open to an approach from Russian agents. The only reason he didn't wind up being charged with a crime is that the statute requires the prosecutor to be able to prove that the defendant knew that what he was doing was illegal.
So Mueller told the public that Donald Trump, Jr. didn't have the knowledge required to keep America safe from hostile foreign adversaries.
Just this week, Paul Manafort confessed to having sold U.S. voter data to a Russian agent.
One thing written in the Mueller report is that Trump's obstruction of the investigation might have prevented Mueller from uncovering other of Trump's crimes.
Trump dangled a pardon to Roger Stone. Stone nonetheless was convicted. Then Stone said that he had faced a lot of pressure to turn on Trump, but had not turned, and therefore thought he deserved to have his sentence commuted. Trump commuted his sentence. Then, Trump pardoned Stone.
This grew out of the Russia investigation, and shows Trump and Stone involved in broad daylight in a conspiracy to obstruct justice.
The felonies for which Manafort was convicted and/or to which he pleaded guilty in connection with the Russia investigation include bank fraud, tax fraud, and money laundering.
And, as above, Manafort just admitted he sold U.S. voter data to a Russian agent.
So whatever justifiable criticisms anybody can make of the Russia investigation, it remains true that Trump attempted to obstruct it out of corrupt motives.
"And yet, the 2016 Trump campaign had umpteen illicit contacts with Russian agents and then lied about those contacts.
Donald Trump, Jr. was open to an approach from Russian agents. The only reason he didn't wind up being charged with a crime is that the statute requires the prosecutor to be able to prove that the defendant knew that what he was doing was illegal.
So Mueller told the public that Donald Trump, Jr. didn't have the knowledge required to keep America safe from hostile foreign adversaries.
Just this week, Paul Manafort confessed to having sold U.S. voter data to a Russian agent.
One thing written in the Mueller report is that Trump's obstruction of the investigation might have prevented Mueller from uncovering other of Trump's crimes.
Trump dangled a pardon to Roger Stone. Stone nonetheless was convicted. Then Stone said that he had faced a lot of pressure to turn on Trump, but had not turned, and therefore thought he deserved to have his sentence commuted. Trump commuted his sentence. Then, Trump pardoned Stone.
This grew out of the Russia investigation, and shows Trump and Stone involved in broad daylight in a conspiracy to obstruct justice.
The felonies for which Manafort was convicted and/or to which he pleaded guilty in connection with the Russia investigation include bank fraud, tax fraud, and money laundering.
And, as above, Manafort just admitted he sold U.S. voter data to a Russian agent.
So whatever justifiable criticisms anybody can make of the Russia investigation, it remains true that Trump attempted to obstruct it out of corrupt motives."
Every word of this is bullshit, son.
You're wasting time and energy.
Here's more than what the TDS-addled asshole deserves:
Scott Rose is full of shit.
TDS,TDS, full of shit... SQUAWK!
Fuck off and die, asshole.
SQUAWK!!
They had 0 illicit contacts
Here are the actual facts:
https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2019/03/mueller-concludes-investigation/
You have been deceived, Scott. Repent of your lies and turn to the truth, because you don't have it.
And a more recent video on the subject matter:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wpLWhWtKhc4
Again Scott, you have been deceived by your own conspiracies. Repent of your error and see the truth.
The link you provide is a news report contemporaneous to the time William Barr gave the public his summary of the Mueller report, before the redacted Mueller report was made public.
Mueller TWICE rebuked Barr for lying to the public about what his report says.
To know what the Mueller report really says, read it.
Separately, there was the Republican-led Senate Intelligence Committee's report on the 2016 campaign and Russia, with a ton of supporting documentation.
That report too is public, and easily found online.
I did read the report. It doesn't change the fact that Mueller STILL did not find any collusion. Even Democrats couldn't do a thing after the investigation and went to other ways to oppose Trump.
You were wrong, Scott. Don't delay your repentance.
You are wrong.
The Mueller report did not look for collusion.
The Mueller report looked for a criminal conspiracy.
Mueller did not find enough evidence to prove a criminal conspiracy beyond a reasonable doubt, but he said that Trump's obstruction of the investigation might have prevented him from doing so, and/or from finding evidence of other crimes Trump had committed.
There are scant criminal statutes with the word "collusion" in them, so this is red herring, that was introduced by Trump on the advice of a savvy legal person.
As collusion is mainly a colloquial, and not a legal term, by repeating "no collusion," Trump conditioned you to accept something about the Mueller investigation, that (he knew) the Mueller investigation was not looking for.
In the colloquial sense, the Trump campaign engaged in collusion.
"If it's what you say it is, I love it, especially later in the summer" is proof of intent to collude.
How stupid do you feel for getting that embarrassing Mueller Time tattoo on your sloped fucking forehead?
"You have been deceived, Scott"
Can only be deceived if one seeks the truth.
Scott does not.
It's not like the Russia investigation didn't get revealed to be a fraud created by his opponent and willingly and knowingly carried out by the FBI. other than that, can't think of more than a few dozen reasons to not trust them.
The Russia investigation was not "a fraud."
And Manafort just this week confessed that he sold U.S. voter data to a Russian agent.
Beyond that, as Manafort was being prosecuted, Trump dangled pardons to him, in public!
Witness tampering!
The felonies for which Manafort was convicted, and/or to which he pleaded guilty included bank fraud, tax fraud, and money laundering. conspiracy to defraud the United States, and witness tampering.
This is the criminal whom Trump, with corrupt motives, pardoned.
Go back to the hot tub time machine and set it for the time when the nonsense you are writing was accepted truth.
Democrats Don't Trust 'the Police,' but They Do Trust the FBI, Provided It Is Targeting Donald Trump
Ya see? I’ve been telling all my Black and gay conservative friends that the writers here are ok. This article gives me some confidence. Now, if only we could get the FBI to investigate Hitlery’s emailz or the John Podesta torture chamber at the Comet Pizza Bing Bong my Black arse would have even more hope. Gay fingers crossed.
Trump supporters will not understand your sarcasm.
Hurr durr!
Pay up Scott, VULGAR MADMAN proved you wrong.
Trump supporters will not understand your sarcasm.
LOL. Yes, this incredibly nuanced take from Ali Snakbar is lost on our feeble minds. Thanks for leftsplaining it for us La Vie En Rose.
I just did a search for Bruce Reinhart. It went to a government website "www.dcd.uscourts.gov". The page said I was not authorized to view that page. I did the same search for Royce Lamberth, got the same website but here was his complete legal biography.
There was no information that might lead one to Lamberth's home or any members of his family.
So what was on Reinhart's site that would be worth suppressing to protect Reinhart?
Lamberth was the head of the FISA court and also sentenced the Q-Anon Shaman to four years in jail, so he would appear to be just as controversial as Reinhart.
Was this done because of threats to Reinhart's life? Or to give the impression that Reinhart is in immediate danger from "right wing extremists"?
Choose your conspiracy theory and enjoy!
Democrats Don't Trust 'the Police,' but They Do Trust the FBI, Provided It Is Targeting Donald Trump
and Republicans Don't Trust 'the FBI', but They Do Trust the Police, Provided It Is Targeting POC and the Poor.
LOL
Leftist bots are such sad little clumps of cancer.
Many Republicans actually recognize the police's contribution to protecting poor minorities; the biggest perpetrators of the latter group are poor minority individuals themselves, and the victims rely on the police for protection from against certain members of their own demographic. Read this link:
https://www.audacy.com/wwl/blogs/newell-normand/newell-defunding-the-police-will-hurt-minorities
And here's another:
https://atlstandard.com/stories/625483198-new-york-post-columnist-defunding-police-backfired-big-time-hurting-minorities-the-most
Be deceived no more.
Well, I mean, it weren't as if we White people didn't rely on police for protection from certain members of our own demographic, so I'm not sure what your point is.
You honestly can't figure out his point? It's clear as fucking day. I think you understand it, you just don't have a rebuttal for it.
I don't know, IS. Judging by his other comments, he may be that fucking stupid.
Good point.
Scott, you really do not get that point?
Seriously?
Can you have the person feeding you what to type post?
Reminder:
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/be-willing-use-deadly-force-irs-sparks-uproar-over-job-posting
"Major duties" of the job include "Carry a firearm and be willing to use deadly force, if necessary," and "Be willing and able to participate in arrests, execution of search warrants, and other dangerous assignments."
I have a feeling those requirements would be very similar for an armed security guard at a jewelry store or bank. A majority of police officers never have to fire their weapons or use deadly force in their careers. The people who act like police officers are out shooting people for “fun” are disingenuous and don’t care to see the facts. A black economics professor from Harvard, Roland Fryer, published a study that found deadly force is not racially motivated/biased. He received a lot of pushback for it. Ultimately, he was targeted by some of his colleagues who accused him of sexual harassment. https://nypost.com/2022/03/25/harvard-cancels-a-black-academic-who-debunked-woke-orthodoxy/
From the conclusion of his study: “ Yet, on the most extreme use of force – officer-involved shootings – we are unable to detect any racial differences in either the raw data or when accounting for controls.” https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fryer/files/empirical_analysis_tables_figures.pdf
To me, the most darkly humorous part of the Rump phenomenon is how foolish most of his supporters are regarding money matters.
He's supposedly a billionaire, but he is constantly putting out fund raising pleas, and people of modest means are constantly sending him $25 donations.
It is as if they were saying "You deserve to poop on a golden toilet, and I want to make sure you can poop on a golden toilet for the rest of your life, so here are my $25, to make sure that no life situation ever separates you from the golden toilet on which you poop!"
The level of corruption and incompetence is astonishing.
Could they really not come up with anything better?
Or, more concerning, are they laying the groundwork for something even more horrific...
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/watch-live-ag-merrick-garland-makes-statement-following-trump-raid
The FBI was looking for 'classified documents relating to nuclear weapons,' among other things, during its Monday raid at former President Trump's Mar-a-Lago residence, WaPo reports, citing 'people familiar with the investigation.'
So - we're to believe that the FBI took several boxes from Trump in June, told him to put a bigger lock, and then two months later realized 'oh -- he might have nuclear secrets' - justifying the raid.
https://twitter.com/capeandcowell/status/1557900981563695105?t=sxULJjLz14yoAW7nRrVwuw&s=19
This story changes at the speed of light and just when the heat’s back on. It’s amazing timing really. Seems almost planned but that’s crazy conspiracy talk.
[Link]
Whatever it is, the target has rights which he has not yet exercised.
If the warrant is unwarranted, then why has Trump not already filed court documents challenging the warrant?
And, what is your personal reward for attempting to defend a man who has done so many indefensible things?
In the litigation over Trump University, it came out that advertising claimed Trump had personally read and selected all course materials, but it turned out, he hadn't even seen the course materials, and many of the materials were plagiarized from other sources.
Trump publicly attacked five star parents, when the honorable thing to do would have been to remain silent about them.
Trump disparaged John McCain by saying "I like people who weren't captured."
Trump openly expresses admiration for dictators, while disparaging leaders of democracies.
Trump says that people who plead the Fifth are guilty, but then he pleads the Fifth and says the whole justice system is against him, so he had "no choice."
When Trump was facing civil court justice for his Trump University scam, he used a bigoted smear against the judge in the case. Paul Ryan said Trump had used "textbook racist" language.
Trump lied to the American public by alleging he had no pending deals in Russia in 2016, but meanwhile, the truth was, he was trying to get a deal for a tower in Moscow, needed Putin's approval of it, and was publicly showering Putin with praise (while denigrating the American president.)
Trump started his term by insisting on a lie about the size of his inauguration crowd.
Trump endangered the life of his vice president, though that vice president had acted with humiliating servile obsequiousness towards Trump for more than four years.
Trump told the people who attacked the Capitol in his name: "We love you."
Barf.
"If the warrant is unwarranted, then why has Trump not already filed court documents challenging the warrant?"
Everything was already taken. What good would it do now? Trust the FBI to return stuff and not copy everything? That's a hoot.
"Trump disparaged John McCain by saying "I like people who weren't captured.""
The only admirable thing that useless sack of shit ever did was survive a plane crash due to his ineptitude.
I am literally taking bets for when you gracefully jump this ship.
Hell, the Chinese probably have all that intel from Swalwell and their student spies embedded in our university system. :/
The FBI was looking for 'classified documents relating to nuclear weapons,
Yeah definitely calling bullshit on that one. If he was holding nuclear weapons info and it took the FBI 1.5 years to act, they have some 'splaining to do.
I don't think the question here is not trusting the police vs not trusting the FBI, but rather the inconsistency of our legal system. The fact that when a rich white man like Trump is the target there is outrage and when a young black man is the target the target is assumed to be guilty. Some people are outraged by the search at Mar-a-lago, a search that by all accounts was conducted professionally and courteously. Are these same people outrage by a no-knock warrant raid that leaves a young black woman dead? Where is the outrage back when FISA warrants were routinely used to listen in on common people speak to relatives in the middle east.
Here in Wisconsin, we have local prosecutors looking to make examples of people who illegally voted. Four people used illegal addresses on their registration. They used post office boxes. Now there is nothing to suggest they were trying to cheat or make extra votes, just they did not understand the rules. But politics says they have to suffer the consequences. Yet as person like Mark Meadows does a similar thing and the no one can touch him lest it be called a partisan indictment.
So, what we need to decide is there one standard or two. And it not Democrat vs Republican it is powerful vs the common.
Maybe there are multiple double-standards then, because this is not how other government officials (even less than Presidents) have been treated, if this is indeed just about missing documents. Hillary Clinton's home was not raided looking for the illicit email server. Barack Obama's residence was not raided, even though there were disagreements/negotiations about documents to be handed over (the same with Bush and Clinton before him, I believe).
The trouble with attempting to discuss anything about Rump, with a Rump supporter, is that Rumpism has ultimate goals that are antithetical to our constitutional republic, and Rump supporters will say any and everything to justify anything and everything Rump does, no matter how illegitimate.
Sidney Powell told the public bald-faced, outrageous lies about the 2020 election outcome, towards advancing Rump's attempt to steal the election.
In the process of being held accountable for her lies, Powell told a court that no reasonable person would believe the things she said about the election outcome were true.
The Rumpist M.O., in a nutshell.
There are cases of government officials being prosecuted for mishandling documents, see Sandy Berger. Your examples don't work because they are not equivalent to the current situation. Hillary Clinton's server may have been a poor choice, but it is not illegal. Sec. Clinton is a good lawyer, and she would know what she could and could not do. As for former Presidents, it is common for them to negotiate with the National Achieves for documents they want for the collection in their Presidential Library. They don't walk off with documents. They negotiate with NA for what they want and under what conditions they can have the documents.
"There are cases of government officials being prosecuted for mishandling documents, see Sandy Berger."
No raid. Little actual punishment.
"Hillary Clinton's server may have been a poor choice, but it is not illegal."
Extremely was. The FBI just decided to protect her.
"Sec. Clinton is a good lawyer, and she would know what she could and could not do."
Yup, lawyers never break laws...
" and when a young black man is the target the target is assumed to be guilty"
Oh fuck off, Brandy. The 2020 riots put paid to that lie.
Anyway, it's got zero to do with race and wealth and everything to do with the fact that the Democrats are using the FBI and the IRS to target and harass political opponents and have been for almost a decade.
You know that, so why did you just spout all that bullshit?
https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2022/08/11/street-artist-sabo-hangs-fck-the-fbi-and-trump-2024-maga-signs-around-los-angeles/
https://twitter.com/GamebredFighter/status/1557521085456859139?t=I_Dy_0kuYhXGEfy_Zqs-Lg&s=19
It took the FBI to raid a former president to finally get a name associated with the Epstein saga and it ends up being the judge that signed the warrant?
A direct quote that Trump gave to New York Magazine about Epstein:
“I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”
Right. So?
Was Trump acting representation?
Also, aside from being an Obama donor, that magistrate of yours was posting stuff like this:
“Thank you, Robert Reich, for saying what many of us feel, ‘John Lewis is the conscience of America. Donald Trump doesn’t have the moral stature to kiss John Lewis’s feet... Or, as Joseph Welch said to Joseph McCarthy, ‘At long last, have you left no sense of decency?”
You don't find this problematic? You don't think he should've recused himself? The DOJ should have looked for a magistrate that wasn't politically compromised.
Who nominated Reinhart to his current position?
What the fuck does that have to do with his question? You think trump vetted every single name dropped on his desk? It still stands, the man should have recused himself. You’re posting all this sanctimonious Boomer anti trump bullshit, but when you’re asked about how you justify someone’s behavior based upon your insistence of trump’s character you brush it off as if it’s trivial.
The reason you’re getting shit on by everyone is because you don’t apply the same standards to your side you hypocrite. And your posts are too long and boring. Also, you do that gay thing righties do when you say “Rump” instead of Trump like they say “Demonrats” instead of Democrats or “Obummer” instead of Obama. It’s stupid and embarrassing to read.
I have no knowledge that this alleged quote from Reinhart was actually written by Reinhart.
I do know that in 2016, Reinhart donated to Jeb Bush's campaign.
I saw one photo that allegedly showed Reinhart with a floozy in an airplane -- but that photo was apparently photoshopped to show something it didn't really show.
I don’t give a fuck what he did to turn his reputation around; he was the goddamn Grand Kleagle of the motherfucking KKK. At most he should have been cleaning toilets in the Senate, not being celebrated by Democrats like you. “Oh you’re not a racist anymore that terrorizes blacks and sees a whole race as subhuman? Yeah let’s make you an example for all to aspire to.”.
Do you not see how fucking hypocritical and stupid you people sound? The same party that fought a war to keep blacks enslaved and created a terrorist organization to keep its victims in line pats itself on the back every chance it gets because it’s not as evil as it used to be.
Give me a fucking break. But do go on about dopey ass Trump and the whoppers he told while in office that almost brought the Republic down lol.
"I saw one photo that allegedly showed Reinhart with a floozy in an airplane -- but that photo was apparently photoshopped to show something it didn't really show."
You mean that meme from a site that has meme in its name? Impressive detective work.
It's been established that federal magistrates are not appointed by the president. It's been stated multiple times on these comment boards throughout the week.
https://www.uscourts.gov/faqs-federal-judges#faq--What-are-federal-magistrate-judges?
For someone who has obviously done a lot of digging to come up with all of your anti-Trump stuff, you missed some pretty basic info.
Appalling and/or ridiculous Trump quotes:
"I will build a great, great wall on our southern border, and I will have Mexico pay for that wall. Mark my words."
"I think if this country gets any kinder or gentler, it's literally going to cease to exist."
"I will be phenomenal to the women. I mean, I want to help women."
“Do you believe in punishment for abortion – yes or no – as a principle?”
“The answer is there has to be some form of punishment.”
“For the woman?”
“Yeah, there has to be some form.”
"The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive."
"I look very much forward to showing my financials, because they are huge."
"I would never buy Ivana any decent jewels or pictures. Why give her negotiable assets?"
"You could see there was bloody coming out of her eyes. Blood coming out of her wherever."
“I won’t do anything to take care of them. I’ll supply funds and she’ll take care of the kids. It’s not like I’m gonna be walking the kids down Central Park.”
“Nobody knew health care could be so complicated.”
“What you’re seeing and what you’re reading is not what’s happening,”
So???
That only rustles jimmies if you're a blue check or a fifty-center.
More adolescent whining from a TDS-addled pile of shit. Notice that there is both zero context and no support for any of them being a lie as opposed to several other possibilities.
Guessing the TDS-addled asshole, full of shit, Scott Rose has been collecting every off-the-cuff Trump comment for years and now it's just BURNING to be released to an un-believing world!
Notice a lot of his whining has to do with Trump not releasing the contents of the warrant; perhaps that's a result of having legal help:
"No, you cannot do anything but wait out the statutory time period applicable to sealed warrants. The only part of the warrant that may be sealed is the affidavit of probable cause that supports its issuance, and then it is only sealed for 30 days, a time period which may be extended an additional 30 days, after which it must be unsealed and delivered to you within 15 days..."
https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/a-sealed-search-warrant-was-executed-on-my-home-ho-2395854.html
"I have dual law degrees from Harvard"
"I squared up with a gang banger named Corn Pop"
"I was a truck driver"
"I handled negotiations with Golda Meir when I was a college freshman"
"I solemnly swear to protect and defend the Constitution..."
"A high speed train is faster than a jet"
He was also arrested trying to visit Mandela.
I think the Republicans that are loudest in their calls for disbanding the FBI (which history shows us means it would just be renamed), are generally those for disbanding other government bureaus as well. It's almost a libertarian ideal to leave policing to the states, is it not?
Because state governments can't figure out how to take away individual freedom!
Not as well as Feds, anyway. You can always move to another state.
Only thanks to the federal constitution lol.
You do say the most retarded things. Point out the state that doesn't want to allow people to leave.
The ones that are currently writing laws forbidding women to leave to get an abortion.
Which states are those?
Yeah, a federal construction that understand states and federalism.
Jesus, the fact you thought this was a gotcha is fucking embarrassing.
Ugh, don’t get me started on the constitution and the Supreme Court. Once we pack the courts, we won’t have to worry about that thing getting shoved down our throats when it comes to gun rights and abortions.
JFK, RFK and MLK are rolling over in their graves when they look down on todays Demented Dem Party. The Kennedy's would join MLK and be Republicans.
It's over, Russian bot. It's over.
Sure thing fifty-center.
Dude, JFK and MLK would be considered misogynistic, bigoted, right-wing, patriarchal, Nazi white supremacists by Dems today.
Yes or no, did DOJ sue Trump for refusing to rent or sell to Black people?
Yes or no, was that case settled with a consent decree which Trump subsequently violated?
Yes or no, did Biden lionize a KKK leader at his funeral?
“Although I and my colleagues behind me revered the Senate, Robert C. Byrd elevated the Senate”- Joe Biden
Robert C. Byrd really DID elevate the Senate.
Why do I say that?
Because Byrd evolved from being an unrepentant white supremacist, to being a Senator who did everything he could to promote civil rights for Black Americans.
The NAACP honored him before and after his passing.
It is excellent when somebody admits their past errors, sincerely apologizes for them, and takes measurable action to make up for them.
"Because Byrd evolved from being an unrepentant white supremacist, to being a Senator who did everything he could to promote civil rights for Black Americans."
But he, you know, did not do that. He was a bigot until the day he died. Now he's hating dark-skinned folks in Hell.
No and no. The DOJ had no evidence and Trump counter-sued for $100 million. The DOJ had no case and had to settle out of Court. Trump was discriminating against UNQUALIFIED blacks and those that would rent a unit and then not pay the rent or bring in 15 people to live and turn a unit into a Ghetto. When the case settled, the NY Times actually used this headline: “qualified Blacks and Puerto Ricans now have the opportunity to rent apartments owned by Trump Management.” and claimed Trump lost when in fact he won every point. If there was DISCRIMINATION based on race occurring , the term 'qualified' would never have been used. Total Trump victory. The DOJ and housing authorities continued to harass and inspect and huff and puff but never found any discrimination based on race before or after the silly lawsuit. Trump continued to rent to QUALIFIED applicants of any race creed or color AND the settlement agreement says no discrimination had been found AND also says Trump could continue to rent to QUALIFIED applicants AND says he had a right to protect his property from dead beats and ghetto dwellers renting out units.
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I don’t trust either. But police is a broad term
The FBI is a specific organization. Police is many organizations. I never trust the FBI. They conspired to spy on a president and staged a kidnapping. Only idiots would trust them
Police on a case by case basis
Or, if you want to take partisan misdeeds out of your calculus, one only need note that the FBI does not record their interrogations, yet they will charge you with a felony based on what they claim you said in their interview.
This, in an age where even homeless people carry smartphones with video capability everywhere.
The only plausible explanation for their refusal to record all interactions is their desire to preserve their ability to lie.
This just in- people like it when criminals are charged, especially when they're wealthy and powerful because it happens so rarely.
We saw him commit crimes on a near daily basis and finally getting some small measure of justice? EVERYONE should love that. I just guess the fascists won't..
Like Hunter Biden?
If Hunter Biden committed a crime, let him be subject to the consequences. Just as long as we're applying the law like civilized people.
So how much do you think Trump deserves to go to prison?
The blame lies with the FBI who gave credence to a conspirtacy theory authored by Hillary Clinton in the first place.
https://ethicsalarms.com/2022/05/22/its-confirmation-bias-stupid/
It takes a certain level of mental illness to write this article and blame distrust of the FBI on the right on demonization by Trump.
We all witnessed the deliberate framing of people int he Trump campaign for purely partisan political purposes. It is not arguable that they were acting in good faith, right up to the top. Sally Yates even documented Obama and Biden personally directing FBI agents to frame Flynn for a crime.
Pretending that mistrusting an FBI whose partisan and criminal actions in the last 6 years make the framing of Flynn a minor side-story is somehow unjustified and solely due to some cult-like manipulation by the mastermind that is Trump is indefensibly stupid.
I can personally attest, one need not be a Trump supporter to understand that the organs of the state have been utterly corrupted by partisan actors. In fact, you have to be willfully ignorant to believe otherwise. Their actions go far beyond Trump and are sourced far more widely than the FBI.
It is just like blaming distrust of the Chicago Police Department on Internet posts by Christopher Charles Morton!
Gotta say until now I had only muted one person (excluding those posting spam links); the rev but that changed today and muting Scott Rose really cut this thread down to a readable size.
“Unless you think local police are for some reason less prone to abuse their powers than the FBI is (or vice versa), those partisan gaps are pretty hard to understand as a matter “. Not really. The blue side love the feds, while the red size (theoretical) wants more states rights. Don’t you think that might reflect in the attitudes towards the various levels of law enforcement ?
Democrats are going to regret doing away with peaceful transitions of power.
Biden is going to be ravaged when he leaves office. I'd raid his house in late 2025.
Given the fact that like with the Nazis vile evil murderous racial purity polices requires that people be murdered to even be implemented, Conservatives vile evil murderous pro-pollution policies also requires that people be murdered in order to be even implemented. (Even Communism, for all its shortcomings doesn't actually require that people be murdered to be implemented. Jailed, maybe, if they have a problem with losing their sh!t to collectivization, but not murdered.)
One would hope that people only trust the security forces when they target the real criminals, like the Trumpskyites who randomly targeted innocent men, women, and children for extermination at the hands of Conservatism https://www.vox.com/2018/8/21/17763916/epa-clean-power-plan-affordable-clean-energy ), instead of murdering Black people in cold blood or arresting college student for the earth shattering crime of, ooooooooo, smoking weed.
Every-time a Democrat gets investigated; hard evidence is found everywhere and yet no real prosecution ever develops.
When a Republican gets investigated no hard evidence is found beyond emotional trash-talk name-calling by witnesses building faith in a hyped up narrative and yet there's always a prosecution.
Seems justice is served by emotional-lefty basis in D.C.
Longtime lurker, rare commenter, have never posted. It's easy to see that Reason has a policy of unmoderated comment, because the general level of discourse here, I'm finding, is surprisingly, whoever you are -- please get help!) represent Reason's dismayingly low. I can't imagine the worst offenders (hiya Ted, readership, which I've always assumed to be reliably middle-brow and thoughtfully argumentative. But not, in my experience until I read these comments, to the point of froth and foam. (Don't you love how some people, let's call them Ted, call anyone remotely reasonable "partisan"? And how it's always because their target acknowledged some obvious truth unhelpful to The Leader?) The numbskull-to-realist ratio in these comments is disheartening, however freely the "discussion" flows. That's either the fogey in me, seeking linearity, or the Trotsyite lurker as intolerant of free speech as Let's Call Them Ted is of introspection.
I flagged my own comment for review because I failed to edit it before posting, and as posted it starts to fall apart midway through that extraordinarily long second sentence, a mashup of two edits. Would love to see it go away so I can try again...
In 2016, Trump compromised himself vis-a,vis Putin by lying to the public, saying he had no pending business deals in Russia, when in fact, he did. That gave Putin leverage over him. Trump is not nearly as smart as he thinks he is. Of course, U.S. intelligence agencies knew in real time that Trump was lying about his pending deal for a tower in Miscow, requiring Putin's approval, and were shocked and dismayed. Trump supporters see nothing wrong with Trump's lie. But Romney sees something wrong with that lie, and has said so, earning him scorn and hatred from Trump supporters (who cannot be debated, because they think Trump is entitled to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants, no matter what It's the Fuehrerprinzip.)
Not a single thing you wrote reflects reality.
Not a word.
Impressive.
Scott, that is not true. Trump Tower Moscow deal was abandoned before Trump has even announced his candidacy for president. I am no fan of Trump. He increased the public debt, he was very generous with subsidies, paid by the tax payers, he started senseless trade wars with Mexico, Canada and EU which have made some things more expensive for consumers. Trump is an idiot, plain and simple. The idea of using the Post Office to get at Amazon was supremely stupid, as well as the idea of buying Greenland.
However, Trump had some very good ideas, too: closing the southern border and disengaging the economy from China, which he has correctly perceived as the greatest threat to the US.
As for FBI, it was a political police from the day it was founded. The role of FBI was well proven and documented in cases of MLK and Malcolm X, as well as Mohammad Ali. FBI role in Whitey Bulger case is also well documented. This particular act is suspect for several reasons:
- Trump was cooperating with the investigation and was delivering the documentation.
- The judge who signed the search warrant was a well known political opponent of Trump and should have recused himself.
- The agents were going through Melania's wardrobe. What documents did they expect to find there? Super-secret stuff in her shorts?
FBI has been a political police since its inception. That is why J. Edgar Hoover was the director of the FBI for a quarter of century. FBI shenanigans are well known and documented from the time of MLK and Malcolm X, McCarthy's purge of communists from Hollywood and framing of the "counterculture" leaders in 1968. FBI must be reformed if the Americans still want to live in a free country. Raiding a former president is, at least in my opinion, a bridge too far and we have to make sure that everybody involved pays dearly. That includes Merrick Garland, Christopher Wray and the judge who signed off such a shady warrant. If we don't do that, we risk FBI turning from a barely competent political police into Gestapo.
that's an impressive pile of crap right there!
The reality is that in 2016, Trump was actively attempting to secure a deal for a Moscow tower, and needed Putin's approval for the deal. He lied by saying he had no pending business in Russia. The documented proof of this came to light through the prosecution of Michael Cohen. Trump's explanation, after the fact became public knowledge, was that he needed a Plan B, in case he did not win the election. In 2016, there was nothing wrong with Trump having potential business in Russia. What was unethical and unpatriotic on his part was to lie to us about it. How pathetic for you that you claim this is untrue, even though Trump himself has acknowledged it is true.
.. unpatriotic..
LOL, time for a new flag on your pickup truck.
Yes, unpatriotic. Trump needed Putin's approval for a deal in Moscow, and told us he was not trying for any such thing, but then praised Putin to the skies. By the way, what did the FBI take from Mar a Lago: Trump's property, or government property? If they took Trump's property, why has he not said so? Trump is a con man.
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Trump was trying to secure all kinds of deal at any given time. So fuck off with your Media Matters talking points, which are woefully out of date.
Seriously, you aren’t even up to the usual standard of the faggot progtard trolls who normally shitpost here. How does that make you feel? Like a failing faggot?
Because that’s what you are.
The final document in the case that led to the legally-compelled closure of the Trump Foundation includes a "rap sheet" listing of the financial crimes Trump committed that caused the legally compelled closure of the Trump Foundation.
Today, Trump released a statement alleging that Obama took more papers from the White House than he did, many classified, and he said how many are nuclear? Some say a lot!
In response, the National Archives released a statement saying that Obama arranged for them to handle his papers and that he has no control over their movement.
So Trump lies to the world, endangering our national security by falsely alleging that multiple past U.S. presidents are mishandling sensitive nuclear documents and other secret materials.
Each word that anybody types in defense of Trump is an indictment of themselves.
You begin your comment with a documented untruth.
I say untruth rather than lie, because perhaps you do not know the truth.
Originally, Cohen told Congress that Trump's potential Moscow Tower deal wrapped up before his campaign began.
COHEN WAS PROSECUTED FOR LYING TO CONGRESS ABOUT THAT (among other things.)
Cohen later acknowledged, and provided to the court relevant documentation proving that Trump's attempted Moscow tower deal ran through at least June of 2016.
If Trump really believed all the terrible things he is saying about the FBI search, he could file a Bivens action to seek compensatory and punitive damages.
You’re a hyper partisan piece of shit kook aid drinker. All the shit you write here keeps getting discredited. Makes me wonder if you’re Pedo Jeffy’s new sock.
Really? It’s funny, because everything you’ve written is partisan crap. Most, if not all of what you’ve written is discredited bullshit. So maybe you should fuck off back to Vox, WaPo, or wherever else you crawled out from.
You certainly be,ieve in everything you’ve written, especially the lies.
A topic in the headline of this article is trust. Are there grounds to trust Trump? Yesterday, he attempted to minimize the seriousness of having stolen top secret documents and then refusing to return them. He lied by alleging Obama had done worse with more documents, including nuclear ones. Embarrassingly for Trump, the National Archives then issued a statement saying that they have full control of Obama's presidential papers, and Obama has no control of them. This is why we hope to see Trump charged in this case. What he has to say about why he stole these documents, should be said in court, where there are consequences for lying.
The crime of insurrection, 18 U.S. Code 2383, imposes criminal penalties on “whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto.” Trump’s words to his supporters — telling them to go to the Capitol and encouraging them by saying, “I’ll be right there with you” — incited and literally set on foot the insurrection that followed. He also assisted the insurrection by his inaction under circumstances in which he had a duty to act — namely by failing to call out the National Guard or order other reinforcements for the Capitol Police as the building was overtaken. Trump also encouraged the crowd’s bloodthirsty pursuit of Vice President Mike Pence, which he did by tweet even after he knew that the siege had turned violent and despite urgent pleas from his daughter Ivanka Trump and others for him to call off the attack.
It's hardly a lie that Rump could file a Bivens action. Why don't you call him and recommend it? He's recently been acting as though he has no legal advice whatsoever. Saying things in public that further incriminate him, when obviously the best thing would be to say nothing, for example.
I really hope you don’t sell insurance in central Florida.
"Progtard." That's a new one on me! Pro tip: When people have to stop to figure it out, it's not going viral. Anyway, I was just about to shitpost, too, about cretinous wingnuts who hurl laughable insults at people they disagree with. Do you really think anyone you call a faggot for your own deeply repressed reasons gives a shit what you think? That's pure vintage 1978 homophobia, well past its pull date.
Signed, totally not a faggot, b/c that would be icky.