Should Libertarians Be Noncombatants in the Pride Wars?

Plus: A listener question considers the pros and cons of the libertarian focus on political processes rather than political results.

1x 1.1x 1.25x 1.5x 2x 3x

:15 :15

Download

Should Libertarians Be Noncombatants in the Pride Wars?

In this week's The Reason Roundtable, editors Matt Welch, Katherine Mangu-Ward, Nick Gillespie, and Peter Suderman attempt to disentangle the various roiling debates over sexuality, identity, and the state amid this year's Pride month celebrations.

0:25: Pride wars

31:10: Weekly Listener Question

43:15: California Assembly votes to pass Journalism Preservation Act

48:44: This week's cultural recommendations

Mentioned in this podcast:

"Trump-Appointed Judge Rules Tennessee's Anti-Drag Law Unconstitutional," by Elizabeth Nolan Brown

"Uganda's New Anti-Gay Law Could Undermine AIDS Prevention," by William Rampe

"What Do Gadsden Flags and Pride Flags Have in Common?" by Scott Shackford

"Florida Bans Most Public School Instruction on Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity," by Scott Shackford

"Tennessee's Anti-Drag Bill Is a Gaudy Public Performance," by Scott Shackford

"Gavin Newsom represents the worst kind of elites," says Nick Gillespie

"Is California Over?" by Nick Gillespie and Regan Taylor

"Babylon Bee Won't Back Down Over Trans Joke Twitter Ban," by Nick Gillespie

"Abigail Shrier: Trans Activists, Cancel Culture, and the Future of Free Expression," by Nick Gillespie

"Science Denialism on the Left: Sex, Gender, and Trans Identity," by Nick Gillespie

"Is Target Stock Going 'in Toilet' Due to Conservative Boycott Over Bathroom Policy?" by Nick Gillespie

"Bruce Jenner's Impossibly Great American Dream," by Nick Gillespie

"From Donald To Deirdre," by Deirdre McCloskey

"The Rise and Fall of the Spokestroll," by Abe Greenwald

"Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse Does Cinematic Diversity Right," by Peter Suderman

"Cult Country," by Jesse Walker

Send your questions to [e-mail]. Be sure to include your social media handle and the correct pronunciation of your name.

Today's sponsor:

• It's so easy to get caught up in what everyone else needs from you and never take a moment to think about what you need from yourself. But when we spend all of our time giving, it can leave us feeling stretched thin and burned out. Therapy can give you the tools to find more balance in your life—so you can keep supporting others, without leaving yourself behind. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online. Designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and switch therapists any time for no additional charge. Find more balance, with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com/roundtable today to get 10 percent off your first month.

Audio production by Ian Keyser; assistant production by Hunt Beaty.

Music: "Angeline," by The Brothers Steve

What are we consuming this week?

Nick Gillespie

• Psychonauts: Drugs and the Making of the Modern Mind

Peter Suderman

• Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse

Katherine Mangu-Ward

• Sounds Like A Cult

Matt Welch

• Meet Me in the Bathroom

---

Comments

[Stuck in California]

"pride" wars?

Is that what they're calling it now? Trying to make it seem like people sick of the extremists are anti gay?

Here's a take. Nobody gives a shit who you fuck. It's not the 60s. It has nothing to do with "pride" or anything else gay.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

“pride” wars?

Luke, I am your daddy...

[The Margrave of Azilia]

one of them, anyway

[Madeleine Guest]

I essentially make about $7,000-$8,000 every month on the web. It’s sufficient to serenely supplant my old employments pay, particularly considering I just work around 10-13 hours every week from home. I was stunned how simple it was after I attempted it duplicate underneath web………
.
.

—————————————————-⫸ https://Www.Coins71.Com

[Zeb]

"Pride Month" still just strikes me as bizarre. Here we are, gays have pretty much everything they have asked for in terms of social equality. No one really gives a shit anymore. Most people don't even care that much about seeing a dude in a dress. And now all of a sudden "Pride" is everywhere and in your face. I can see some sense to taking pride in yourself when most of society was telling gays to be ashamed of their proclivities. But really, who goes around being proud of how they like to fuck?

[sarcasmic]

For every LGBQFU person I've met it's not just who they have sex with, it's an identity. It's all about being gay.

[Mother's Lament]

Because it's both a religion and a deliberate method of instigating social turmoil. Particularly since it stopped being even remotely about gays and lesbians ten years ago, and started being about abusing the mentally ill, castration, clitorectomies and sexualizing children. Social turmoil was the goal, not a side affect.

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD]

It’s also about the billions of dollars the gay activism industry generates. And they have intention of going away.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Yeah I can't say I'm proud to be heterosexual. It's not some great accomplishment and neither are being gay or gender dysphoric. They told us to let them do what they want in the privacy of their own bedroom. I'm cool with that. Now I have to admire their pride on display at the local taxpayer funded library. Fuck these assholes.

[Dillinger]

>>proud to be heterosexual.

sometimes in the middle of a group thing it's pleasant to sit back and admire the scene ...

[2wheelexplorer]

“Fuck these assholes” :p not sure if you meant that to be funny but it worked

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

“Pride Month” still just strikes me as bizarre.

No shit, it's worse than Christmas now. I feel like I just put my rainbow flags away and now I have to get them back out!

[JesseAz]

You put them away???? Fucking bigot.

[Mother's Lament]

Yeah, I'm getting the feeling that Paul doesn't understand that every month is pride month.

[AngelWilson]

I have made $18625 last month by w0rking 0nline from home in my part time only. Everybody can now get this j0b and start making dollars 0nline just by follow details here..
🙂 AND GOOD LUCK.:)
HERE====)> https://www.apprichs.com

[mad.casual]

The loss of ~2.5 extra family members per couple around every Xmas table is made up for by each couple being ~2.5X as obnoxiously self-absorbed and socio-politically awkward.

[Ejbear]

Why do we have Pride Month and parades? I'm a libertarianish conservative and I'll admit that the parades are over the top. But at 47, I can still remember the push for a constitutional ban on same sex marriage. I served in the Navy at a time when gays were kicked out of the military and about 50% of military intelligence budgets were spent on ferreting out the gays. I was explicitly fired for being gay when a gay client let it slip to my boss where we had drinks one night (and it was perfectly legal for them to fire me). Religious families still kick their kids out of the house for being gay and/or beat their sons for being gay. 15 years ago I witnessed 3 college kids physically harass and elderly gay couple in Providence RI (a pretty liberal city). The past persecution and harassment of gays is not in the distant past. Gay equality is a recent phenomenon. That's why there's still gay pride parades and pride month. When those with scars are no longer with us, the parades might end.

[Nardz]

"We're not done punishing normal people who had nothing to do with them for slights of the past, both real and imagined."

[proprietist]

"punishing"

You poor, persecuted man. No one knows the trials and tribulations you have surely been put through by the rainbow parades and the drag queens.

[The Glibertine Party]

being reminded of = punished? you people are beyond parody

[JesseAz]

This is as believable as MuellerSheWrote's lies.

[Smith1]

You mean the same way descendants of enslaved people will eventually stop seeking special treatment when the last person that remembers being an enslaved person dies? The problem is, no one will ever admit they "won" and now enjoy the rights and freedoms of everyone else. Even if there are clearly laws in place to protect them (as there are now). And celebrate all you want, just don't ask others to pay for it or support it.

[Mike Laursen]

I don't think anyone is calling it "the Pride Wars" other than whoever wrote this blog post. If you google for "Pride Wars", you'll find the top reference to "Pride Wars" is a series of childrens book about a bunch of lions, similar to the Chronicles of Narnia.

[JesseAz]

You cry about the culture wars all the time sea lion.

[ThomasD]

This.

As always Reason has chosen a side, but still wants to pretend they havent chosen a side.

[proprietist]

Or maybe…they have personal opinions on the matter but also realize that it is not a black-and-white situation like the hardline culture warriors on either side make it out to be.

Two of my best friends are trans. I am very supportive of LGBT causes and believe it is important LGBT kids get the emotional support and counseling they deserve if they aren’t getting it at home. I don't want LGBT kids to become homeless, suicidal and falling victim to actual groomers (who do exist, if not in the overexaggerated, hyperbolic, mass-conspiratorial way the right-wing tries to paint it.)

I support efforts to promote the idea of treating others with basic respect as fundamentally good ethics and completely coherent with libertarianism, which requires ethical education and social behavioral conditioning to offset the lack of legal authoritarianism and excess. A libertarian society where most people treat each other with fundamental respect is more likely to be successful, while a society without fundamental respect is likely to fall into authoritarianism or mob rule.

That said, do I think trans women should compete against female athletes? Probably not – it is probably biologically unfair, but we can analyze it on a case-by-case basis because every situation is not the same…if there were more trans kids, there would be enough trans athletes to form a league of their own with their own distinct rules about hormone use, but we can’t and shouldn’t push more people to become trans, right?

Do I think children need to see explicit material at a young age? No, surely not. But I also recognize society itself is inescapably sexualized and the internet has an open door information, both true and false, useful and harmful. Young children do need to know enough about sex to know certain abusive acts committed against them are wrong and that they need to seek help, because child abuse IS a real thing that should be stopped.

Do I think drag queen story hour is a big deal? No, not unless they cross boundaries which would be the same rational limits for any speaker or performer, which I don’t believe happens most of the time. The cases where they do should be handled in a fair legal way that does is not biased based upon the sexuality or gender of the person at hand, which is mostly irrelevant.

Reasonable people have nuance to their opinions because life is complex and not pure black and white, especially when it comes to teenagers who operate in a gray area of maturity/immaturity.

Lines have to be drawn for legal clarity obviously, but some of those are worthy of debate. Does the 18 year old who dated a 15 year old at his high school deserve to be a registered sex offender for life due to statutory rape that was essentially consensual, even if they eventually get married? Probably not.

Realizing life, society and politics is not simple or black-and-white is the first step to political maturity. And realizing open-ended cultural relativism is also wrong ends up forcing you into a nuanced stance that will never be understood by those who want laws and ethical standards to be used like sledgehammers against their perceived enemies.

[ThomasD]

Your reply is informative while also tedious and preachy. But more importantly it is entirely tangential to my point.

Edit: So I must ask, which one of the writers here are you?

[proprietist]

I am not a Reason writer, but given the absurd right-wing tenor this comment section has taken, it is apparently weird for a reader here to share the opinions of the writers? I don't hang around here much because the commenters are so tedious, childish and partisan now. Having been a longtime reader the notion that both sides are wrong but have grains of truth worth considering has always been the most reasonable take on current events.

[charliehall]

The extremists are the people who want to ban drag shows and pride marches.

If you don't like the idea of drag shows, don't go!

[Bruce Hayden]

Nobody cares if you have a drag show, and adults attend. It’s when schools, in particular, host them for kids. Keep your deviant sex and sexuality 4to yourself. Just don’t try to use my tax dollars indoctrinating my kids with it.

[proprietist]

They aren't having "deviant sex" shows at schools, you weirdo. And teaching kids the Golden Rule about how to treat others as you want to be treated is "indoctrination"?

Perhaps you can't tell the difference between drag queens reading a children's book about acceptance of others and being yourself, usually with parents in attendance, and an explicitly adult-oriented show with nudity and sexual innuendo but most reasonable people can.

There are teachers who are or have been Onlyfans or lingerie models getting fired from their day jobs when someone finds out, even if their side gig has zero implications on their ability as a teacher. Is it fully appropriate, meh, probably not. But it certainly does not imply some kind of sick attraction to children because they happen to be an adult entertainer.

The slander the right wing culture war weirdos brand the entire LGBT community with is something I won't stand for.

[MT-Man]

I'm glad you can stand.

[proprietist]

Ooh, zing. Very classy. When all else fails, imply the other person is gay.

[Azathoth!!]

They aren’t having “deviant sex” shows at schools, you weirdo.

No one said they were.

Nobody cares if you have a drag show, and adults attend. It’s when schools, in particular, host them for kids.

See? The 'deviant sex' point was the next line.

Perhaps you can’t tell the difference between drag queens reading a children’s book about acceptance of others and being yourself, usually with parents in attendance, and an explicitly adult-oriented show with nudity and sexual innuendo but most reasonable people can.

They can't. That's what's being counted on. It's what YOU'RE counting on.

No one mentioned nudity. YOU added the idea to make the poster look ridiculous. And you counted on no one going back to see.

But do explain how the man wearing fake breasts and shapewear has zero sexual connotations.

Sexual connotations, sexual innuendo is the point of drag.

It can be subtle or blatant, but it is always there.

But it certainly does not imply some kind of sick attraction to children because they happen to be an adult entertainer.

No. That doesn't imply such. What DOES imply such an attraction is giving children literature that is wildly inappropriate. It is telling children to not discuss things with their parents.

People who are doing something that is beyond reproach don't do their best to hide in the shadows.

[proprietist]

Drag Queen Story Hour is not a “drag show” in the adult sense.

Children don’t know enough to be attracted to drag queens wearing garish makeup and costumes reading a story book any more than they know to be attracted to clowns or Mickey Mouse. Almost every drag queen interview I have read has been talking about how the whole point of these things is to encourage kids to be who they really are, even if it is not “normal.” Parents often attend them with their children.

And “don’t tell your parents” is unfortunately advice that stems from countless traumatic experiences of coming out to parents who don’t accept them for who they are, often getting kicked out of their homes, punished or sent to conversion therapy camps. You are putting a sick, perverted spin on children who need an outlet for emotional support when they have parents like you.

Maybe if people like you treated LGBT kids with respect and acceptance, they would not be in situations where they feel like they have to reach out to total strangers, some of whom may indeed have perverse ulterior motives.

[Azathoth!!]

Drag Queen Story Hour is not a “drag show” in the adult sense.

I never said it was. You keep reading things no one is writing.

[Mike Laursen]

Sexual connotations, sexual innuendo is the point of drag.

Sometimes. Often the point is humor with no sexual innuendo.

[Lester75]

See Monty Python.

[DesigNate]

Unless you’re referring to a specific skit, Monty Python or SNL having male actors dress as women weren’t doing drag shows, they were simply cross dressing for comedic purposes.

That’s a completely different thing then the characters in To Wong Fu or The Birdcage.

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD]

Keep that shit away from the kids you groomer piece of shit.

[rev-arthur-l-kuckland]

You may recall waaaaaaayyyyyyy back in 2017 when Noone gave a crap about drag shows, bit then they started pushing it on children. Take your nabla self and take a long walk off a short pier

[proprietist]

You weirdos really think LGBT outreach to children to let them know that it is ok to be yourself and not hide who you really are is equivalent to pedophilia? You really must want gay and trans kids to off themselves, huh?

[Social Justice is neither]

Ah, the terroristic threats of "do what I say or your kid gets it?"

[proprietist]

Huh?

[VULGAR MADMAN]

“Your teenage daughter is obviously depressed because she has boobs.
Cut them off if you don’t want her to commit suicide!”

[proprietist]

Yeah, because that’s exactly what I said. ????

Look, IF your daughter/son has such extreme gender dysphoria that she/he has suicidal ideations, maybe hormone therapy or even transition surgery is the appropriate way to help her/him. This grave decision would require extensive consultation with your daughter/son, your partner/spouse, her doctors and therapists, etc. I think there are very, very few parents who would make such a decision lightly.

I was about to say “most parents love their kids” but I am not sure about you anti-trans folks because it seems your love is conditional on things your child may not be able to control.

[ThomasD]

"Yeah, because that’s exactly what I said. ????"

Look who is fucking talking.

[proprietist]

I am not sure what you are implying or maybe if the sarcasm of that line you quoted was lost in translation.

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD]

Stop reaching out to children with your deviant sexual shit. Period.

The end.

[DesigNate]

Obergefell was decided in 2015 and by 2016 a majority of America didn’t give two fucks about gay marriage anymore.

Are you seriously trying to argue that, not only did gay kids need special outreach, drag queens were the right vehicle for that?

[Social Justice is neither]

Ok groomer.

[kivolig271]

Google pay 97$ per hour my last pay check was $8500 working 1o hours a week online. My younger brother friend has been averaging 12k for months now and he works about 22 hours a week. I cant believe how easy it was once I tried it outit..
???? AND GOOD LUCK.:)

HERE====)> http://Www.pay.hiring9.com

[proprietist]

From the looks of this comment section, clearly many people do still care. All the grooming slander is either projection or the desperate last gasp of a dying breed of assholes that never treated other people with basic respect.

[VinniUSMC]

Sorry NAMBLA groomer freak, stay away from children.

[proprietist]

And people like you come to a site called "Reason.com"? Why?

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD]

Because we’re reasonable. Not a sick social Marxist deviant so desperate for the flesh of small children that they seek to groom them even in schools.

Desperate pedophiles, like you.

[proprietist]

Entirely baseless, entirely inaccurate slander is not remotely reasonable.

Just another pathetic troll without an ounce of human empathy lost in a maze of delusional right-wing brainwashing. And you wonder why nobody wants to hear what you have to say.

[VULGAR MADMAN]

The gaslighting doesn’t work anymore creep.

[VinniUSMC]

And people like you come to a site called “Reason.com”? Why?

In an attempt to counter psychotic, disgusting pedophiles like yourself from grooming children.

[Smith1]

The grooming concern is not slander. It is from people who genuinely believe that there is no valid reason to have a drag queen story hour for children or have books about how to have sex available to third graders. Some people legitimately want their children to be able to hold on to the innocence of childhood and develop over time with parental support rather than having sexual proclivities shoved down their throats or rammed up their asses. The constant gaslighting about legitimate concerns (for example, claiming the Florida bill prohibits saying "gay" to children) is, frankly, offensive.

[I woke up when Hillary talked about Reconstruction]

Foul mouth coming from a foul mind.
You are headed for perversion even as you deny it

[ElvisIsReal]

The question that I want answered is if Reason banned me for like a year because they were asked to do so, or if they came to the decision all on their own (and if so, why).

Does Reason just roll over for the censorship complex like Twitter?

[Mike Laursen]

if Reason banned me for like a year

Are you discussing a hypothetical or something that actually happened? It sure seems like you've been around this past year, so if you are asking about something that actually happened, was it in the past?

We have one data point on how Reason responds to government requests:

https://reason.com/2015/06/19/government-stifles-speech/

The subpoena demanded the records of six people who left hyperbolic comments at the website about the federal judge who oversaw the controversial conviction of Silk Road founder Ross Ulbricht. Shortly after the subpoena was issued, the government issued a gag order prohibiting Reason not only from discussing the matter but even acknowledging the existence of the subpoena or the gag order itself.

[rev-arthur-l-kuckland]

Perhaps the word if might give a clue as to weather or not it's a hypothetical

[ElvisIsReal]

LOL you're really bad at this. I have NOT been around in the last year. Go ahead and find a comment.

[Social Justice is neither]

Gee, wonder where the groomers and pedo defenders of Reason are going to shake out on this one.

If you leftists were confining yourselves to adults then nobody should care or interfere with consenting adults but the LGBTP+ activists have adopted "we're coming for your children" as both an anthem and a MO so sorry, there can be no standing on the sidelines against abuse.

[proprietist]

The groomers and pedo defenders around are those who support the party of Donald Trump (sued for raping a 14 year old, loves going back stage at underage beauty pageants, openly fantasized about his underage daughter, bffs forever with Epstein), Gym Jordan, Dennis Hastert (a registered sex offender molesting boys), Roy Moore, Matt Gaetz, etc. All the groomer talk is clearly just projection.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/04/from-hastert-to-gaetz-lets-talk-about-republicans-and-sex-crimes.html

And hey, there is plenty of perversion to go around with both parties (and the LP!), but the GOP are the ones who are hyperbolic about the grooming stuff to be worthy of suspicion.

Everyone who is reasonable knows that while some extreme cases do cross the line into inappropriate and horrendous behavior, you could say the same thing about any environment. Churches clearly haven't been safe, so where is?

The vast majority of LGBT acceptance advocates are trying to help LGBT children not grow up with trauma, social isolation and suppression of one's true self. What is appropriate when it comes to trans kids in sports and physical transitions is something that should be left to the grownups to discuss and debate with an eye to fairness and doing the right thing for children, but this notion that LGBT advocates who experienced the difficulties of growing up in a society that didn't accept LGBT kids and don't want this generation to fall victim to it are "pedos" or "groomers" is pretty sick on your part.

[VinniUSMC]

Sure, you're not a pedo groomer, we totally believe you.

[proprietist]

Cool story, troll.

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD]

You’re the troll, and you’re a pedophile too.

[proprietist]

Uh huh, sure...

[VinniUSMC]

Ok, groomer.

[proprietist]

And you wonder why nobody takes right-wing MAGA culture warriors seriously. You just fling random slander with no filter like monkeys fling poo.

I am sorry you have to live life with such a debilitating mental handicap.

[sarcasmic]

Gay Pride vs Proud Boys.

[JesseAz]

You clap at locking one of those up.

[Liberty_Belle]

¿Por qué no los dos?

[JesseAz]

Because neither should be locked up.

[Mike Laursen]

Not necessarily mutually exclusive circles in the Venn Diagram.

[I woke up when Hillary talked about Reconstruction]

But a Venn diagram IS by its nature exclusive or it is not.
So the only logical way to make sense of what you say , is to posit that you have no essentialism in your thinking. So why would you use Venn diagrams anyway 🙂
Venn depends X or not-X as the alternatives, Essentialism

[JesseAz]

Libertaruamism doesn't require to cower like a beaten puppy. One side wants to be left alone. The other demands acceptance under threat. They are not equivalent. The activists on the pride side dont want equality but special protections and favors. They will engage in economic terrorism by calling employers and attempts at censorship. If people say that's wrong Reason believes they are at war against gay people. It is utterly dishonest.

[proprietist]

That's b.s. If you "just want to be left alone", why are you blabbing on Twitter about how much you hate LGBT people and how they are sick and perverted pedos chopping off kids genitals for kicks?

You want to live in a society, either follow the Golden Rule or don't complain when society treats you with the same amount of respect you are treating others.

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD]

You leftists won’t leave children alone, so you lie and say it’s really about hating gays. You always lie. No one gives a shit if adult gays want to fuck each other. It’s when leftists like you want to groo, small children that it becomes a problem. Now you can keep pushing, but I wouldn’t recommend it. Because there’s nothing wrong about putting down groomers that won’t keep away from small children.

So back the fuck off.

[proprietist]

I have never met a single Leftist or LGBT acquaintance in my life advocating or supporting pedophilia, and I have a lot of LGBT friends. So I know you are lying out of your ass about it being some general, representational trend.

Personally I think actual pedophiles should be locked up for life. On the other hand, using slander to falsely accuse non-pedophiles or being pedophiles is not free speech.

[VULGAR MADMAN]

More gaslighting.

[I woke up when Hillary talked about Reconstruction]

In her thesis –also written for the Regent University Law Review –Reisman cited psychologist Eugene Abel, whose research found that homosexuals “sexually molest young boys with an incidence that is occurring from five times greater than the molestation of girls. …”

Abel also found that non-incarcerated “child molesters admitted from 23.4 to 281.7 acts per offender … whose targets were males.”

“The rate of homosexual versus heterosexual child sexual abuse is staggering,” Reisman wrote. She said “Abel’s data of 150.2 boys abused per male homosexual offender finds no equal (yet) in heterosexual violations of 19.8 girls.”
============
I already knew this, what I don't know is what provoked you to risk the rebuttal. Are you anti-gay posing as not anti-gay?

[Idaho Bob]

Should Libertarians Be Noncombatants in the Pride Wars?

Pride wars? No.

Widespread grooming of children? Hell yes

[Zeb]

I think that should be reversed if we're talking about being non-combatants, no?

[EdG]

Why is there widespread grooming of children in Idaho? Are all of you perverts?

[Sevo]

Why are you so full of shit? Are you a proggy?

[Mother's Lament]

I hope you didn't get fifty-cents for such a weak attempt.

[charliehall]

There isn't.

But there are a lot of haters who claim that there is.

Some even claim falsely that they are libertarians.

[Zeb]

I think this is a place where libertarian philosophy per se doesn't give you the answer. Libertarians are allowed to believe that culture matters and that some cultural trends are beneficial or harmful even if government force isn't warranted.
There are also a few things getting lumped in with all the "pride" nonsense that might actually be of concern even to a libertarian government.

[charliehall]

It isn't libertarian to support hate culture

[Stuck in California]

Oh good. New sock puppet doing the most stilted of possible trolling.

[Zeb]

What's hate culture? It is possible to think that people are doing foolish or counterproductive things without hating anyone, you know?

[DesigNate]

Oh fuck off, concern troll.

[Dirk Honkler]

Libertarianism absolutely supports "hating" others, it's why we believe in no forced association. Do I want the force of the state to act against those I hate? Definitely not.

[Nardz]

https://twitter.com/iamlisalogan/status/1665712064977829895?t=q_BNT-19Mvx687n3NZfrCg&s=19

Sadly, no. There are already plans to get small and medium businesses roped into ESG reporting, too.

And individuals.

[Links]

[JesseAz]

Jeff was arguing ESG was not about control but a natural extension of a free market. Here is the Blackrock CEO in 2017.

"Behaviors are gonna have to change and this is one thing were asking companies. You have to force behaviors, and at BlackRock we are forcing behaviors," the CEO said.
.
"What we're doing internally is if you don't achieve these levels of impact, your compensation could be impacted," Fink said, before AmEx's former CEO admitted the company was "doing the same thing."

It is literal coercion under threat, the opposite of a free market and an admitted fascist state. Libertarianism should be fighting this 100%.

[Mother's Lament]

The CEO of Blackrock should fight fascism in the same way the guy who shot Hitler did.

[creech]

Hitler got shot only after the Luftwaffe bombed Pearl Harbor.

[Stuck in California]

forget it, he's rolling.

[charliehall]

Nobody is forced to take Blackrock's money.

[Mother's Lament]

Nobody is forced to not be able to attain capital.

[JesseAz]

You are totally clueless about investment huh. Blackrock uses other people's money to influence behaviors. But since you're a fascist you are for it.

[Nardz]

https://twitter.com/wil_da_beast630/status/1665796514210349061?t=duAotH5VJ-MpIHB9l-__0A&s=19

Graphic description of something political quants have said for decades: the median American is socially conservative and fiscally liberal - not the reverse.

[Link]

[Mother's Lament]

I think this actually goes for the median human as well.
Name a country where they are socially liberal outside the West, hard to do.
It’s natural for humans to lean socially conservative but be more open to liberal economics. Conservatives need to understand this!

Of course for the clerisy and establishment class it’s very different. They’re socially libertine but economically moderate.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

I don't care who you boink as long as it's consensual, and guess what? It's always been the case that children cannot consent.

You wouldn't take kindergartners to a strip club. Don't take them to a drag show where they stuff dollar bills in drag queen underwear.

African tribal female genital mutilation used to be a horror; someone got a prize for fighting it just recently. Why is fluidentiy genital mutilation not only acceptable but desirable and proper for kindergartner teachers to push?

There are only two sexes. Gender is a grammatical term. I have enough trouble remembering people's names; I am not going to try to remember a bunch of arbitrary and volatile sounds to replace standard pronouns. If you give me grief for not guessing your faux pronouns, I will return the favor, and guess what, you won't be able to repeat them, and I will change them every time you ask.

[JesseAz]

The same inconsistency is the libertarians who were against gay conversion therapy but now support child grooming.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

Yes, and women's Title IX sports have been turned into men's tenth-rate loser leagues -- and women who complain they want their sports back are shamed.

[sarcasmic]

That's not totally true. Enough people are getting fed up with biological men winning in women's sports that something's gonna give pretty soon.

[Mother's Lament]

Hardly. The cult is stepping on the gas.

[Roberta]

Why shouldn't 10th-raters have their own leagues, regardless of their sex?

[Stuck in California]

I'm fine with that.

Call it "open" class. Anyone, any gender, in the age group can compete if they want.

Reserve Men's and Women's sports for people biologically men or women, add the open category, and people who don't fit into the old fashioned norms can compete wherever they wish in that open category.

I still bet the Men's group gets the prestige, though.

[Nardz]

Wondering what the age cutoff is where girls can beat boys.
15U Dallas Boys team beat the brakes off the best women's soccer team in the world, but I think USNWT could beat a 12U boys team.
14U boys probably beat the USNWT though.
Thinking 13U is where it would get interesting.

[Stuck in California]

Who knows. Who cares?

We all understand that, for the vast majority of sports, elite men’s times/scores/performance massively outpaces women’s. And it will every, single, time. That’s why women’s world cup soccer practices against high schoolers. There’s nothing wrong with that.

Unless we’re talking something like ladies’ gymnastics, where the competitions are specifically tailored to women’s physical build, Women’s elite athletes cannot keep up with men’s. Some strange ban by progressives on saying so doesn’t make it untrue.

So… “open” class. I mean, that makes it “tranny” class, and they’ll get their asses kicked by any elite men who enter to get some extra practice or another medal, but it’s still a place for trans women to compete so they aren’t excluded.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

Where's my special class, the glasses-wearing old fart?

Point is, athletics by its very nature excludes almost everybody. Why should trannies, who have intentionally altered themselves out of true athletic classes and into their own Special Olympics class, force women to lose their special class?

[Stuck in California]

Where’s my special class, the glasses-wearing old fart?

That’s the handicap bowling league where you can drink beer, hang out with your friends, and enjoy the evening.

[charliehall]

Why is it the government's job to regulate that?

[Stuck in California]

It's not. But you know we're talking about title IX and ask anyway, because you're being deliberately vague and willfully ignorant just to troll.

[Social Justice is neither]

Maybe because resources aren't infinite? That all is fine but they are club leagues not institutionally organized and supported.

[creech]

Who are these "libertarians?"

[Vernon Depner]

The same inconsistency is the libertarians who were against gay conversion therapy but now support child grooming.

Transing kids IS gay conversion therapy.

[VinniUSMC]

Worse because it involves physically altering them.

[proprietist]

NOBODY sane and normal supports child grooming, you idiot. Not LGBT people, not Democrats, not woke liberaltarians, not anyone.

It is just that we know most of the slander you right-wingers are flinging wildly at the LGBT wall for your culture war is lies, willful misinterpretations and hyperbolic overexaggerations, with just enough exceptional cases where there was actually truth of inappropriate behavior to leave the wall dirty.

In such _exceptional_ cases, I support the full weight of the criminal justice system to remove those individuals from society and access to children permanently, regardless of their sexuality, gender or ecclesial standing.

[Azathoth!!]

NOBODY sane and normal supports child grooming,

Exactly.

We’re after the people grooming children, if you try to stop us, how is it wrong of us to look at you as not being among the sane and normal?

Why do LGBT people get caught in this web? Because they keep jumping in. Groomer refers to groomers, not LGBT people.

Groomers are using LGBT language as a way in.

Helping gay, lesbian and trans kids. Teaching them about their sexuality. Showing them what to do ....and then?

And because we have to put parents between this and kids the groomers can scream 'anti-LGBT' and the LGBT community leaps into action and inadvertently defends pedos.

Stop. Shut the hell up and understand that the only people anyone's after are the people who want to force themselves on children. Whether they're gay, straight, or trans.

[proprietist]

“We’re after the people grooming children, if you try to stop us, how is it wrong of us to look at you as not being among the sane and normal?”

Nobody here is trying to stop you from stopping actual pedophiles, if we believed your efforts were in good faith. We are trying to stop you from *blanket slandering* non-pedophiles who oppose pedophilia in all forms as being pedophiles or supporters of pedophilia based on their identity, politics or attempts to provide resources and support for LGBT children.

You should look at this comment thread how many times various people have accused *me* of being one simply for telling people not to slander others and treat people with respect. I’m neither gay nor trans nor left-wing, but people are playing fast and loose with their culture war ammo. It is a shoot-first, ask-question-later perversion of rational dialogue Trump popularized and QAnon divorced from all basis in factuality.

“Groomers are using LGBT language as a way in. Helping gay, lesbian and trans kids. Teaching them about their sexuality. Showing them what to do ….and then?”

And then nothing. You are the one fantasizing something is happening beyond education and counseling/support. Most of the time there isn’t. Sometimes there is, and in such cases the perpetrator should be prosecuted and locked away.

“And because we have to put parents between this and kids the groomers can scream ‘anti-LGBT’ and the LGBT community leaps into action and inadvertently defends pedos.”

If parents actually consistently emotionally supported their LGBT children, maybe they wouldn’t need third party outlets concerned for their wellbeing and safety, as kids could feel open enough to talk to their parents about it. Unfortunately too many parents disown, kick out, punish, dismiss or attempt to suppress their children’s sexuality when they come out of the closet or are pushed out of it.

” Shut the hell up and understand that the only people anyone’s after are the people who want to force themselves on children. Whether they’re gay, straight, or trans.”

Well, that would be believable but you only talk about the LGBT ones as a general statement, not the traditional sex ed teachers and counselors at every high school. If they are straight, you take it on a case-by-case basis, huh?

[Azathoth!!]

Nobody here is trying to stop you from stopping actual pedophiles, if we believed your efforts were in good faith. We are trying to stop you from *blanket slandering* non-pedophiles who oppose pedophilia in all forms as being pedophiles or supporters of pedophilia based on their identity, politics or attempts to provide resources and support for LGBT children.

Tell that to Gays Against Groomers. Tell that to Blair White. Or Dave Rubin. Or Spencer Klavan.

And then nothing. You are the one fantasizing something is happening beyond education and counseling/support.

I am? Let's see what others say--maybe you

Most of the time there isn’t. Sometimes there is, and in such cases the perpetrator should be prosecuted and locked away.

Huh. How about that. You think that sometimes groomers are being aided and abetted by the curriculum.

If parents actually consistently emotionally supported their LGBT children, maybe they wouldn’t need third party outlets concerned for their wellbeing and safety, as kids could feel open enough to talk to their parents about it. Unfortunately too many parents disown, kick out, punish, dismiss or attempt to suppress their children’s sexuality when they come out of the closet or are pushed out of it.

You have no children. This isn't a dig. It's an observation.

What you just said is the boilerplate attached to a lot of the lessons given about the LGBT community in schools. Long before someone's kids have even the slightest interest in sex they have teachers telling them these horror stories about parents rejecting gay children. It's usually attached to civil rights lessons.

And they get them every year.

Now, imagine a kid, just getting interested, but not quite sure in who. After years of lessons telling them that parents reject kids who might be LGBT what's going to happen? The parents have a huge hill to climb with their kid that they never knew was there.

And all of a sudden there are strange adults giving their kid sexual advice. Even if this is done in all innocence, it's wrong.

Because it places a wall between ALL parents and children who get these lessons because SOME LGBT people had this happen to them when they were young.

And it is one of the main doors groomers use. Getting kids to keep sevrets from their parents--particularly secrets about sexual things with adults-- is pure red flag territory.

And LGBT people get caught in this because all they're seeing is 'gay kid might get abused by straights' they're not thinking that groomers don't CARE if the kids straight or gay.

Well, that would be believable but you only talk about the LGBT ones as a general statement, not the traditional sex ed teachers and counselors at every high school. If they are straight, you take it on a case-by-case basis, huh?

They all get taken on a case by case basis. You all don't pay any attention when sexual abuse happens unless you need to use some as a foil-- then you're all about pointing out how male priests abused altar boys (weirdly, you try to keep everyone from noticing the homosexual aspect of so much priest abuse)

The general statement comes out when it's being taught as a lesson. And it's people who attach themselves to the LGBT community who are behind teaching it as lessons.

As with my earlier statement, you really need to pay more attention--you're responding to far too much that was never said.

[proprietist]

“Tell that to Gays Against Groomers. Tell that to Blair White. Or Dave Rubin. Or Spencer Klavan.”

So the gays who decided it was lucrative to be contrarian and take the right wing side in the culture war even though most right-wingers think they are pervert scum? Yeah, there are real groomers too in the gay community. It is completely right to be against them. But there is a difference between taking those child abusers on a case-by-case basis instead of branding the entire batch of educators, the vast majority of whom are surely straight liberals just trying to be open hearted and supportive towards LGBT students.

“Huh. How about that. You think that sometimes groomers are being aided and abetted by the curriculum.”

No, you are twisting what I am saying. Any sex ed teacher or school counselor has mined similar confidential or adult-oriented territory, and really any teacher in general, or any priest or minister, any doctor or therapist, etc. might cross a line and take advantage of what should be a purely professional relationship with a child. In such cases they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The fact is there are exceptional cases where that happens.

But the whole point of having school counselors in the first place is so students have an outlet for confidential consultation if they aren’t getting sufficient help and emotional support at home. And clearly many LGBT kids aren’t. The RW culture warriors are acting like this is something new and controversial but it’s just the idea that LGBT kids need special support given how many parents don’t support them that they don’t like and thus try to slander those providing that support they feel “undermines” their authoritay.

“Because it places a wall between ALL parents and children who get these lessons because SOME LGBT people had this happen to them when they were young.”

When schools set up programs to support LGBT students, they are setting them up assuming there are LGBT students whose parents aren’t supportive, which is a legitimate assumption. Given how isolating and lonely such a situation can be for those kids, caring for their wellbeing is a natural concern. Sometimes schools and teachers have to undermine parents because parents are neglectful and abusive and the school may be the only alternative avenue for that student to get any help.

I have never presumed every LGBT activist teacher is pure and lacking ulterior motives. There are sickos everywhere. There were priests in my Catholic high school who did the same thing in the past. Are you going to brand all priests groomers because there were bad apples with private access and trust of kids that abused that trust and the church covered it up? Oh yeah, and there was a female teacher who always tried to seduce the students.

My opinion is parents should support their kids being who they are so they don’t feel the need to seek out third parties for confidential consultation hidden from the parents. If you spend your kid’s childhood making crude and disparaging comments towards LGBT people, they are not going to trust your love is unconditional if they happen to be LGBT.

“The general statement comes out when it’s being taught as a lesson. And it’s people who attach themselves to the LGBT community who are behind teaching it as lessons.”

When _what_ is being taught as a lesson? You mean when sex ed is expanded to include other sexualities?

[Azathoth!!]

Yeah, there are real groomers too in the gay community. It is completely right to be against them.

Okay, you get this. Good. Let's see if we can't get you to see the rest.

But there is a difference between taking those child abusers on a case-by-case basis instead of branding the entire batch of educators, the vast majority of whom are surely straight liberals just trying to be open hearted and supportive towards LGBT students.

When there IS abuse it IS handled case by case.

The question is why does there appear to be so much?

And the answer is that the predators, gay or straight or trans, are using the same language as the non-predators. So they can be hard to find.

This means that it is the language, the lessons, that are the issue.

Sex ed, all of it, used to be simple descriptions of sex. What it was, dangers, consequences, it's purpose. It described what was happening to students bodies. It broadly described homosexuality and did not touch transsexuality at all (never mind transgender).

And it left more in-depth stuff to parents or later years.

Today it is expected to answer every question, at every age, often with instruction included. This is in response to activism on the part of people who thought it wasn't extensive or inclusive enough.

But was it? Is that level of inclusiveness a valid part of a schools services or not?

This is the issue--

When schools set up programs to support LGBT students, they are setting them up assuming there are LGBT students whose parents aren’t supportive, which is a legitimate assumption

See, 'supporting LGBT students' is 'supporting students with a desire to have sex with X' because that's what makes a person LGBT or straight for that matter.

Why does a school have programs to support sexual orientations? It has none that are specifically geared to anyone else. And never has.

There might be lessons on what to do if you get pregnant --but nothing concerning who you prefer to get pregnant by.

So, by trying to support LGBT kids, schools opened a door to policies that are not the purview of schools in the first place and, by so doing, let in anything that came along with it.

And that's where the problem lies.

[proprietist]

My gauntlet is in blanket slandering the supposed ulterior motives of those pushing for LGBT related education and support, most of which is done with the best of intentions if not always the best execution.

The implication that there is some ulterior motive where LGBT adults get off sexually on the idea of deforming children is an attempt to color the entire effort in education to provide support for LGBT kids who may not get support at home as a seedy, perverse effort to undermine parental authority and seduce children is sick in and of itself.

There is cause for parental vigilance towards bad apple adults of course, but the best way to be vigilant of your child’s safety is to support them and display an open mind in the first place so they know they can confide in you when they need emotional support or when something inappropriate happens to them.

If you let your child know that you support them being themself, you will also let them know that you will support them when someone inappropriately tries to make them into something they aren’t.

This whole moral panic stems from a lot of people who can’t accept the way society is changing, and a lot of other people who are trying to find the right balance as to what is appropriate as they pioneer new, experimental areas of education in line with the latest in scientific understanding about sexuality and gender.

[sarcasmic]

I have enough trouble remembering people’s names; I am not going to try to remember a bunch of arbitrary and volatile sounds to replace standard pronouns.

I’m with you there. A big problem with these younger generations is that they’re taught that everyone around them must adjust their behavior. If some teenager or whatever says “I got by they/them, not she/her” that person expects you to change the way you’ve been using words over your entire life, and if you don’t then you’re the bad guy. I was raised to believe someone who expected others to behave differently in their presence was an arrogant asshole. But now it’s totally flipped.

“This new generation is so fucked.” – every older generation ever

[charliehall]

"that person expects you to change the way you’ve been using words over your entire life

Yes we expect you to show common courtesy and to address people in the way people want to be addressed, rather than to be a boor.

[Vernon Depner]

There’s nothing courteous about demanding that other people pretend to share your bizarre beliefs.

Suppose I demanded that all Black people address me as Massa or Boss. Would it be discourteous of them to decline?

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

You miss the point. Every person has two names, maybe a nickname, and now you want to add 2-3 pronouns? No thanks.

Why do trannies get away with making demands, while I am old to extend the "common courtesy" of putting up with their demands? No thanks. They can show the common courtesy of not expecting everybody else to magically know and remember their extra special pronouns.

[damikesc]

Straights are called "cis" all the fucking time by trannies.

When did WE ever approve of being called "cis"?

When were we ever asked?

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

Never and we didn’t. It is meant to be an insult to the normies.

What's wrong with straight?

[Mike Laursen]

Like a vote or something? How would that work?

[proprietist]

Per Google:

The prefix “cis-” comes from the Latin meaning “on this side,” as opposed to “trans-” which means “on the other side of” or “beyond.”

[DesigNate]

Yeah no, it’s not courteous to expect other people to feed you delusions.

[mad.casual]

You wouldn’t take kindergartners to a strip club. Don’t take them to a drag show where they stuff dollar bills in drag queen underwear.

Further, there is a libertarian case to be had that maybe a 16 yr. old is old enough to drink, own a gun, drive a car, consent to sex, vote, get a job, get off their parents’ insurance or whatever. “Because the law doesn’t stipulate whether a 4 yr. old or a 17 yr. old is banned from attending a drag show, it’s unduly vague and is therefor unconstitutional.” is not the way to start or have that conversation. Especially in the context of relegating uterus-havers to second place, mandating that insurance cover children until 26, raising the firearm ownership age to 21 virtually anywhere, saying Kyle Rittenhouse shouldn’t have been in Kenosha, etc. It very much makes it seem like racism, Nazism, populism, fascism, homophobia, transphobia, etc., etc., etc. where your use of the word for “unconstitutional” really just means “a cudgel you can swing at people you don’t like” rather than anything you think the Founding Fathers may have opined about drag queen cabarets for minors.

[proprietist]

Is this actually common thing or just a one off case where some asshole acted inappropriately which you are overexaggerating to be some general trend of child grooming because it is convenient at making all LGBT and LGBT-friendly people look awful?

If the behavior is inappropriate, it is inappropriate. I think a lot of stuff the most radical, out of touch trans activists do does go too far.

But that's like saying the stuff that the most radical Republicans do that goes too far represents all Republicans. If a few assholes wear swastikas to a MAGA rally it doesn't mean all Republicans or Trump fans are looking to exterminate the Jews.

If you want to slander an entire class of people for the actions of a few extremists you are just adding to the problem of modern America.

[I woke up when Hillary talked about Reconstruction]

Then you don't inherently see anything as immoral.
If you want to be a slave and he wants to be a master, then you allow slavery. YEt the law is "IT IS OUTLAWED" --- you have not thought this through, consensuality can HEIGHTEN the criminality. Check the bigamy cases and the cult marriage cases

[Nardz]

https://twitter.com/DC_Draino/status/1665758167127449600?t=5mqer3PgRCUCJTuCa9dfNg&s=19

Now that Mike Pence has entered the race, let me tell y’all some inside info:

In the days leading up to J6, I was informed by trusted sources that Pence wasn’t going to contest the rigged electoral college results.

I couldn’t believe it. How could he backstab 74 million people & allow fraud to overthrow our executive branch?

But then I was told why…

He cut a deal with the Koch fundraising network to be their lead horse in 2024 if he backstabbed Trump and the MAGA movement in 2020.

To those that say he didn’t have the power to contest fraudulent ballots and allow state legislatures to conduct further review, then why did they change the Electoral College Act in 2022 to explicitly state the VP could no longer facilitate that exact process?

Because Pence could and he knew it, but he took the blood money anyway.

We are not in this situation because of President Trump.

We are here b/c powerful forces worked to “fortify” the 2020 election and coward RINOs like Mike Pence partnered with them.

Let’s show Judas what we think of his backstabbing in the ballot box.

[EdG]

THE GRASSY KNOLL!!!!!!!!!!!! And other conspiracy nonsense like you wrote.

[rev-arthur-l-kuckland]

Ummm thanks to recently declassified documents from the Warren commission we know there were multiple shooters in the Kennedy assination

[charliehall]

Nonsense. There is no evidence that anyone other than Lee Harvey Oswald did it.

[Vernon Depner]

The evidence clearly shows that Oswald could not have done it.

[DesigNate]

We’ll know in a few months just based on how Reason covers Pence.

[ElvisIsReal]

The entire play is stupid as fuck. If Trump was the worst person in the entire world, trying to make his running mate "the lead horse" is never going to work.

Maybe Pence knows this and doesn't care.

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD]

Mike Pence was never going to be president.

[I woke up when Hillary talked about Reconstruction]

Boy, is that ever true !!

[Nardz]

https://twitter.com/DC_Draino/status/1665833491550855169?t=Ao_g42VjeNxeohQyLrb47Q&s=19

BREAKING: FBI concerned their informant on Biden bribery corruption will be killed if name made public

The FBI is not only confirming the bribery evidence is real, but that the Biden Crime Family may murder people trying to expose them

We live in a 3rd world dictatorship

[Link]

[EdG]

Where's the link to the FBI confirming that? In other words, not some wacko nutjob website, but real FBI statements.

[Mother's Lament]

“Where’s the link to the FBI confirming that?”

Are you being retarded on purpose?

The link is to Rep. Anna Paulina Luna who is on the House Oversight committee and said the FBI just informed them of it earlier this afternoon.

[Sevo]

EdG is a professional 'tard, and proud of it, right Ed?
Fuck off and die, asshole.

[Mother's Lament]

Pretty sure it's Shrike or Stolen Valor sockpuppeting.

[charliehall]

She is almost as big a liar as George Santos. Check out her Wikipedia page.

[Mother's Lament]

"She is almost as big a liar as George Santos."

You've used that same slur for every ethnic Republican mentioned in the last three months, Shrike. You're just mad that a 'Latinx' wandered off the DNC vote plantation and is picking on your homeboy, Adam Schiff.

"Check out her Wikipedia page."

Why? What did you write now?

[proprietist]

I mean, it is well known that Rep. Luna lied about being Jewish, lied about being fully Mexican, lied about being from a poor, broken home, lied about being victim of a home invasion...Trump allowed pathological liars like Luna and Santos to thrive as politicians are no longer expected to pretend to be truthful anymore.

[I, Woodchipper]

Yes. The left side of the tranny wars is fomented by bolsheviks who want to destroy us. We libertarians must oppose them even if some bible-thumpers are overreacting to them.

[EdG]

The problem is that you aren't a libertarian. You're as rightwing as they come.

[Mother's Lament]

Name one libertarian thing you've advocated here, Shrike... and no, fucking children doesn't count.

[Sevo]

This from a lying pile of lefty shit just this close to Stalin.
Fuck off and die, asshole.

[rev-arthur-l-kuckland]

Are you sarc?

[DesigNate]

I love how all you leftist/leftitarians try to gate keep libertarianism like you’re the only one true path.

No, socialism and libertarianism are not compatible.

[mad.casual]

Overreacting? AFAICT, Fauci's charge on HIV, Fauci's charge on Superspreader Bear Week, and The Battle of Monkeypox hill has been far more embarrassing and costly defeats to the gay community in the Pride Wars than anything Bible Thumpers have done. How many people died because of DADT and or DOMA?

[Mickey Rat]

To the extent that "Pride" represents a quasi- religious movement that is being backed by government policy, probably not.

[Nardz]

It's not Pride Month, it's Rainbow Ramadan

[charliehall]

Hilarious.

I await the news reports of Pride Day in Saudi Arabia.

[TheReEncogitationer]

Should Libertarians Be Noncombatants in the Pride Wars?

Yes, with consenting adult orgies done however you wish to swing. 🙂

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

More pertinent: should Reason staff libertines be participants in the Pride Wars?

[Ty Gold]

I listen regularly to the Roundtable, the Fifth Column and the Gillespie podcast. I am stunned that four really smart people could be so myopic as to think that anybody who pushes back on gender ideology must be a right-wing conservative male who wants to maintain the patriarchy and hates LGBT.

Nick made some vague allusions to non-right wing people who oppose some aspects of gender ideology but it was just in passing. There are left/liberal leaning men and WOMEN who have expressed this opposition. The rise of the term “TERF” should tell you all you need to know about women seeking to protect female spaces. And if Bill Maher is a right-wing conservative, the term has lost all meaning.

I know Matt is familiar with Katie Herzog, Jesse Singal, Meghan Daum, Kathleen Stock, Kellie Jay Keen, Megan Murphy, JK Rowling – who are certainly nowhere near right-wing.

And Katherine was far too dismissive of the importance of language – in an ideal world, language would have no impact on reality, but it’s been proven time and time again by illiberal regimes that language can be a tool of oppression. Orwell told us this 80 years ago in Politics and the English Language.

Love the show(s).

[JesseAz]

Almost half of democrats are also against teaching gender and against children gender affirming care

Less than half of Democrats, 47%, said they agree that there are only two genders. About 64% of black respondents said they agree there are only two genders, while 55% of white respondents said they agree.
.
The poll also found that 62% of Americans approve of state laws banning gender surgeries for minors such as double mastectomies to remove breasts and genital surgeries in an attempt to achieve the appearance of the opposite gender.

It is truly bipartisan.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/less-than-half-of-dems-oppose-schools-counseling-children-about-gender-without-parental-consent-poll

Numbers would be even more slanted of the poll questions informed the respondents of side effects from surgery and drugs.

[charliehall]

The number of genders depends on the language. French and Spanish have two. Latin and German have three. Mandarin Chinese doesn't have any.

[mad.casual]

Latin and German have three.

Setting aside the false conflation between linguistic gender and the topic of "gender affirming care", incorrect. They have two genders and articles/connotation for a lack of gender.

[perlmonger]

And yet, when I follow the German model and refer to nonbinary people as "it", they get really upset.

[I woke up when Hillary talked about Reconstruction]

No, not true. Take Latin and Greek , where the genders follow solely on grammatical grounds unless sex of subject is obvious. When 'male' is used for referent to mixed sex crowds NO ONE thinks that the speaker/writer now sees them as all male !!!

[Mother's Lament]

Hate-filled right-wing extremists 2023
Bret Weinstein, Jimmy Dore, Matt Taibbi, Joe Rogan, Bill Maher, RFK Jr., Bari Weiss, Sam Harris, Heather Heying, Claire Lehmann, Douglas Murray, Maajid Nawaz, Jordan Peterson, Steven Pinker, Dave Rubin, Glenn Greenwald and Tulsi Gabbard

Peace & Love 2023
Bill Kristol, Max Power, David French, Liz Cheney, David Frum, Jonah Goldburg, Jennifer Rubin, George Conway, Steve Schmidt, John Weaver, Mitt Romney, Joe Scarborough, Paul Ryan and Rick Wilson.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

Conservative simply means anyone (other than a TERF) who isn’t all in on the revolution. Protesting “we’re not conservative” isn’t the point; if you disagree with position X from five seconds ago you’re a conservative as of five seconds ago.

Eventually I expect they’ll merge TERF with conservative. If they haven’t done it by now, it’s probably because they think the acronym is a cool insult.

[Stuck in California]

Elon Musk said this last year. He's been kicked out of the cool crowd for it, but he mentioned being a long time Democrat supporter and and always on the left, then watching the left wing become so progressive and illiberal and go so far left, that they see him as a right winger.

[Mother's Lament]

"Eventually I expect they’ll merge TERF with conservative."

TERFCon... yeah, that has a certain je ne sais quoi. Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist Conservatives, who could have imagined.

[perlmonger]

MAGATERFCons.

[Beezard]

UltraMAGATERFCons!!

[Stuck in California]

I am stunned that four really smart people could be so myopic as to think that anybody who pushes back on gender ideology must be a right-wing conservative male who wants to maintain the patriarchy and hates LGBT.

THIS is the war we're fighting.

It's like sitting in a restaurant, having a meal, ignoring the world, and someone comes up screaming in your face that you are a bigot, that you have to kowtow to his philosophy, and keeps calling you horribly offensive names. Someone you've previously never thought about, much less criticized.

Ignore him, sure. But eventually you have to just say "fuck you" and stand up for yourself. You're not the enemy of everyone else in the world, that one guy's just a prick.

But, are you really, truly stunned by this? This crew has only been slightly to the right of the progressives who purged the newsrooms of the Washington Post and NY Times of liberals over the last few years. They drank the flavorade long ago.

[charliehall]

It is actually the haters of Gays who act like that.

[mad.casual]

It is actually the haters of Gays who act like that.

Yeah, those evil Don't Ask, Don't Tell motherfuckers, they're always getting up in people's faces, flaunting how they don't cater pizza to gay weddings or tying rope around people's necks and splashing bleach in their face when they're just trying to get home and eat a Subway sandwich in peace.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

There are left/liberal leaning men and WOMEN who have expressed this opposition.

If you saw my Youtube feed and mentions, it's almost ENTIRELY left-leaning people who criticize the ideology. This is why Ron DeSantis is so important to the gender ideologues. They need a Republican firebrand to provide a political/team-based figure to lump everyone into.

[Ty Gold]

Spot on. DeSantis is a straight white male with an (R) after his name so he is the perfect bogeyman. He makes it easy to ignore all of the opposition on the left.

[rev-arthur-l-kuckland]

Why do you assume the people on those podcasts are intelligent? Welch is a lefty retard, and kmw is distracted if you say robots. Michel loves the smell of his own farts and thinks the US should be involved in Ukraine. The jacket has the ocational individual thought, but is stuck in the 70s. The only one left is kameel who will tell you straight what the knows, what he feels, and what he thinks and knows those are seperate things that need to be reconciled. So in the 3 pod casts I can identify 2 intelligent people

[mad.casual]

Gillespie is one of the tards who coined the phrase “transgender bathroom panic”. While several states were trying to figure out female athletics under the transgender regime, they were still having "It's just a bathroom issue, why can't we just put stalls in bathrooms?" discussions among themselves. After COVID, if you’re still getting stunned by Reason and this bullshit it has more to do with your intellect and ability to predict the results of applying a taser or frayed lamp cord to your own genitals than anything else.

I mean, FFS, it was pre-COVID that Scott “Don’t Say Gay” Shackford had and published his couple of “Maybe the gay rights movement has gone too far.” moments of clarity. Reason doesn’t care if libertarians should be noncombatants in the Pride Wars. They just read the memo line on the check from Koch where it says “For: Pro-immigration Reporting” or “For: Vaccination Testing”.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

"Um, they're carving up children"

Libertopia: Just stop fighting the kultur war hurr durrrr.

[Mother's Lament]

"Unclench and try to enjoy it, you deplorable fucks. Have you considered biting a pillow?"

[rev-arthur-l-kuckland]

Only if it's a my pillow!

[mad.casual]

Correction:

“Unparalleled amounts of testimony and information that the Biden Administration and the FBI are so out of control, IRS Agents are saying to themselves ‘This just isn’t right.'”

“Also, turns out we transitioned a bunch of minors.”

Libertopia: [Publishes article critical of Uganda’s anti-child rape, anti-HIV policy] Should we be fighting the kultur war hurr durrr?

Again, we should’ve just shot everyone who asked for amnesty.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Just personally, living in a town where it's known as The Pride Millennium, I knew Pride was going off the rails when the people attending started getting a lot less attractive.

[Beezard]

It used to just be a big raucous street party my gay friends went to. Now I have to fill out a survey at work on how well the company did selling pride cakes, and balloons all month and my recommendations on how to make it even bigger and better next year.

I don’t fuckin know. Don’t ask me about Sturgis either, I’m not a biker.

[Jerry B.]

Libertarians should make up their own minds, since they are no less individuals than Whites, or Southerners, or any other group that regularly gets stereotyped.

[rev-arthur-l-kuckland]

The answer is no.
Libritarians should be actively against all identity based ideologies/religions.
Libritarianism is based on individuals. If your gay and you competent your good.
If your gay and you rely on everyone around you, you are a parasite and need to kill yourself

[proprietist]

It is ironic that your view on individualism is that it is something distinct from identity or ideology and yet you identify as a libertarian and try to presume all libertarians need to share the same values as you.

Fortunately, not all libertarians are as disrespectful and lacking in empathy or humanity as you are, apparently.

[Beezard]

Because the LGBTQ “movement” is almost inextricably linked with concepts and dynamics like equity. As a political force it is identitarian and collectivist as opposed to libertarian.

Exactly what legal equality are they being deprived of at this point?

[proprietist]

Legal equality is an entirely libertarian, individualistic concept.

And the concept that collectivism or striving for economic equality is contradictory to libertarianism is simply not true. It might be contradictory to Objectivist/capitalistic right-libertarianism but not all of us are right-libertarians. I consider myself a middle-libertarian between the economic Left and Right.

In a society with minimal government, other forces replace governmental roles. In right-libertarianism that is for-profit enterprises, families, private armies and police forces, private arbitrators. In left-libertarianism, it is communes, non-profit cooperatives and unions. In mid-libertarianism, there may be a balanced hybrid of both sides. If people want to organize into communes and unionize, it is their freedom of association.

Most of the people here have a very limited, American mindset on what “libertarianism” is or means. The Political Compass shows that it is not that simplistic.

[Cyto]

At least you guys are consistent.

Step 1.... it isn't happening.

Step 2.... the conservatives are kooky for thinking this is happening.

Step 3..... it is happening, and it is fine. Only a racist/misogynist/homophobe/transphobe would complain

Step 4..... ok, this is bad... but the real problem is these Republicans who are trying to stop it!!

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Step 100.... I love the freedom of being able to choose which of the three 12pm COVID boosters I get.

[Cyto]

We can't even get firebrand retrospectives.

Covid. Vaccine. Jan 6. Russiagate. "Hands up, don't shoot". Twitter files.

All make for easy takedowns of establishment politics.

But instead of screed about that, we get DNC talking point hit pieces on DiSantis every 3 seconds.

The fact that we live in a timeline where hundreds and hundreds of people were jailed without bail, some in solitary confinement for over a year without trial... for *trespassing*... and our libertarian magazine has more articles attacking a republican governor in a week than they have on these detentions in 2 years.... well, it speaks volumes.

Elon musk and democrat Robert Kennedy Jr. Had more to say about censorship and free speech and the mechanisms of corporate control in a single podcast than Reason has managed in the last decade.

It should induce a sense of shame.

[proprietist]

You people complain and complain and complain about the supposed liberaltarians at Reason.com and yet you continue to hang out here. Why? Isn't there a space for you paleolibertarians to whine freely about LGBT and Black people?

[DesigNate]

See the thing is, Mike, that we remember when the writers actually put out articles with some kind of libertarian angle, back in the Bush/Obama days.

[proprietist]

Who is Mike?

I remember the days before this place was taken over by socially retrogressive Trump nuts, before they fired Shikha Dalmia. There were a few people who supported the concept of Republicans as convenient allies but generally most people hated both parties. Now when they are putting articles out about how libertarians should support clear authoritarians like DeSantis I would agree with your assessment that there used to be more of a libertarian angle. But from the looks of this comment section the QAnon red pilled red hatters own this place now and Reason knows which side their bread is buttered on as they play the contrarian foil.

[Smith1]

Last I checked, authoritarians are not elected in free elections. Just saying, branding someone who has the guts to stand up to the left as "authoritarian" is disingenuous at best. Authoritarianism, since you seem to misuse the term, is the blind submission to authority and the repression of individual freedom of thought and action. Authoritarian regimes are systems of government that have no established mechanism for the transfer of executive power and do not afford their citizens civil liberties or political rights. Power is concentrated in the hands of a single leader or a small elite, whose decisions are taken without regard for the will of the people. DeSantis reelection margins show that he IS regarding the will of the people. And his actions are within the legal strictures of government. Cheers.

[proprietist]

So when DeSantis threatens to punish a company using state powers for criticizing his assaults on free speech in education?

There is nothing preventing authoritarian leaders from being elected, assuming they can convince a plurality of supporters.

[Cyto]

If you actually had any libertarian DNA, you would try to intercede at step 1 so that we don't ever get the righr-wing overreaction.

Which is kind of a giveaway. If you were really libertarians, that is where you would be. But instead you play the role of the mindless cheerleader of the left.

You guys have been wrong on every big issue of the last 15 years. Not just slightly wrong.... like, actively opposed to the libertarian position wrong.

When Obama weaponized the FBI to stop the peaceful transfer of power, every one of you was a cheerleader.

When Facebook was shadow-banning conservatives, you all thought it was either a delusion, or when they quit doing it in secret you all thought it was great, because they are icky.

When Elon went to take over Twitter to allow free speech, you all went into a tizzy. When the Twitter files came out, you all yawned and said "try Mastadon ", as if the obvious implication that the legacy media and Google and Meta are still under their control was beyond your comprehension.

And now, when the provocations have moved to sex change surgery and hormones for prepubescent kids, you take the "it doesn't exist" position and then morph to "how dare those theocrats block medical care for kids"!?!?

Even a month ago, everyone in the US knew that making a sex change permanent before puberty was a bad idea, because puberty is likely to change everything. So everyone argued that it was a conspiracy and it doesn't exist. Including you guys.

But then documents and interviews from children's hospitals started showing up.... and now it is magically a medical issue for which the science is settled.

I am astonished at how easily led by the nose thus group of "libertarians" is.

Normal libertarians are easy to predict on most issues. Just apply the NAP and you will mostly be right.

Not this crew. This crew, you ask "what does team blue want" and you have a much better barometer.

It is too bad. You guys used to think you were about to have a libertarian moment. Now all you do is try to make sure libertarian moments get papered over.

[mad.casual]

If you actually had any libertarian DNA

You don’t even have to have libertarian DNA. Even if you just had a modest interest or talent for reporting facts and only did it to collect a paycheck with practically a bare minimum of scruples.

[Nardz]

Kinda big deal

https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1665906688757563393?t=rCRdI4YANicwFUSQynlcLQ&s=19

The Armed Forces of Ukraine have severely damaged the dam at the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant. From what I'm hearing, water levels in the Dnieper are currently rising, but so far not catastrophically. The worst case scenario is really, really bad.

[perlmonger]

Dam has collapsed.

[Vernon Depner]

The Armed Forces of Ukraine have severely damaged the dam

How do we know it was the Ukrainians?

[DesigNate]

Because they’ve preciously shot a missile into Poland?

[Beezard]

I don’t *know*, per se….

But I wouldn’t be surprised. …per se

[Vernon Depner]

I also wouldn't be surprised if the Russians blew up the dam. I don't trust any of the reporting from the war.

[Bill Falcon]

Why would the Russians bomb their own dam? Like they did the nordstrom pipeline? As this war continues it is obvious the global western neolibs/neocons view Zelinsky as a modern Trotsky in every way...they never got over him losing to Stalin. This war for the folks running American foreign policy is really about Trotsky/Stalin and the Czar..it is obvious.

[Vernon Depner]

It's not their dam. It's in Ukraine.

[Public Entelectual]

Meanwhile in Australia, the Philosophy Department of Woolamaroo University is celebrating Rainbow Yawn Month as usual.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

I love their Alma Mater

[Nardz]

https://twitter.com/FrankDeScushin/status/1665732314909868032?t=zPFmYbqezAoo1xgR2esadQ&s=19

You know how telemarketers have a playbook of replies they read when you're not buying what they're selling? Well, Virginia's Fairfax County teachers were given similar to deal with parents who oppose equity grading.????

Fairfax teachers were taught to view a "Fairness-Seeker" as:

Fairfax teachers were schooled to "Dilute the Fairness-Seeker's voice with other voices in the room." That's in essence similar to what we see on college campuses where activists shout down opposing opinions so they can't be heard. The goal is to drown out an opponent's voice.

Fairfax teachers are also on the lookout for "Minimizers". I thought DEI was supposed to be against stereotypes & cartoonish characterizations.

Minimizers are a problem because they don't have enough guilt. They "don't see their own role in perpetuating systems of inequity."

Teachers are advised to combat Minimizers by acknowledging "we don't have enough examples of what true equity looks like."

There aren't examples of "true equity" because it doesn't exist in nature, and anywhere it was attempted it failed and involved extreme repression.

We've seen Democrat bills allow teachers to withhold information to parents regarding their children being sexually indoctrinated, and now we see schools plan to "dilute" parents' concerns regarding racial indoctrination. Leftists won't let parents' concerns stop their plans.

[Links]

[Liberty Lover]

“Your Rights End Where Mine Begin” My Rights End Where Yours Begin"
So you have every right to call yourself a woman if you are a man. What you do not have it the right to force me to call you a woman when I can plainly see you are a man.
If you want to marry someone of your sex, go ahead, but don't expect a libertarian to be supportive either.
If you want a sex change operation get on, but don't expect a libertarian to help pay for it.

So libertarians have a place in the wars, if people are pushing this stuff down their throats, or indoctrinating their children.
As long as you leave a true libertarian alone, they will also leave you alone.

[Mike Parsons]

"So you have every right to call yourself a woman if you are a man. What you do not have it the right to force me to call you a woman when I can plainly see you are a man."

And importantly the two options for when dealing with kids and trannies:

1 - No discussion is needed at all, pretty much all of us got through school without ever learning about people's gender confusion from a state employee. Leave this to parents for discussion, where it should be happening
2- If it were to be discussed at all, it needs to be called what it is. "This is a man who thinks and/or prefers to be labeled a woman, and it is a significant mental health issue". Then move on. There is absolutely nothing incorrect about this statement.

[DesigNate]

Bigot! - the fun new posters that have popped up the last couple of days.

[Amber7474]

Google pay 200 Bucks per hour my last pay check was 8500 bucks working 1o hours a week online. My younger brother friend has been averaging 12000 for months now and he works about 22 hours a week. I cant believe how easy it was once I tried it outit..
AND GOOD LUCK.

HERE====)> http://www.richsalary.com

[Inigo Montoya]

When I heard the term “Pride Wars” I immediately thought it would be Ryan “Ruin” Johnson’s promised but long-delayed Disney sequel trilogy. Emperor Palpatine will come back from the dead yet again, but this time as Empress Palpatine. Daisy Ridley will marry a female droid, and Lando’s pansexuality will extend to inanimate objects such as rocks and trees, but not to blasters because those are icky and should be banned.

[proprietist]

I think anyone who goes to church is a pedo sympathizer. How many religions has there been a blind eye turned to child sexual abuse and it got swept under the rug? Yet people continue to show up and give those churches money. Every Catholic must be a groomer if you know the history and you still go.

In many religions, pedophilia is even an active part of scripture.

"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. Now go and kill all the young males and every non-virgin woman. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." - Moses, Numbers 31:17-18.

That's the Word of God for you. You Christian pedo sympathizers make me really sick.

See how this game works when you start calling exceptional, extreme cases the rule?

[Dillinger]

"pride wars" lol is that what we're calling child-mutilation now or are we still on some gay guys need more rights kick?

[betsy lima]

I'm a little annoyed at how the Round brushes over serious concerns about this new ideology except with a pat broad brush. While I am on board with a "live and let live" attitude, and believe that conservative pearl clutching over our local Sisters and drag is typical conservative cringe (they are not the common sense party either), there IS a danger to sex-based spaces (sports, prisons, etc..) and people in most places cannot be honest or they WILL lose their job where I live. Also I have 2 friends whose teenage daughters demanded medical intervention at an age too young to make such a decision. This is common in upper-middle class spaces. My friends are pressured to go along despite their strong misgivings since this was all rapid onset. These girls might be very regretful in a decade, but we have no recourse. And our institutions are wholly on board (schools, therapists, government...). The parents' hands are tied. This is the reality on the ground in some places. But yet there is no discussion about these experimental procedures, and the potential sterilization and removal of orgasm capabilities. This ideology is not just about targeting people over their misuse of pronouns.

[Lester75]

If your friends have a spine they won't go along. Until the kids are 18 they need parental permission. One of my kids friends (a girl) thought she was trans. In a year she stopped thinking that. In two years she had a cis boyfriend.

[mad.casual]

she had a cis boyfriend.

[squints] You mean... a boyfriend?

[betsy lima]

Let me be clearer... yes they don't have to consent to medical interventions, but it is really difficult in an enviroment that brands you a hate-crime-commiter, excommunicates you professionally and socially, and does possibly irreparable damage to the relationship with your child: "do you want a dead daughter or a live son bigot?" That is the enivironment we are in here.

[Religion and Politics, my life]

In 3 years
https://d.newsweek.com/en/full/2164236/sam-brinton-during-trevor-projects-trevorlive.webp?w=790&f=f1e676c417a2a927f36efe1e1fe7f5fe

and in 4th year ole Sam is headed to prison

[proprietist]

Can’t we discuss complicated issues like the fairness of trans women in female sports, trans adults in prisons and the ethics of child transitions like nuanced adults, using science, empathy, context and reasoning instead of of turning it into a Manichaean culture war for the soul of America?

As a pro-LGBT person, I agree a lot of the Left is unthinking virtue signaling and value radical postmodernism that doesn’t help clarify things. I also don’t think they are the caricatures made out to be by the RW culture warriors, but the virtue signaling makes it hard for them to state their true opinion. It would help if the right wing wasn’t perverting the discussion in bad faith with slander, etc. to where people would not worry about being lumped in with them to speak their mind, and where LGBT people would not be so oversensitive to open dialogue.

I seriously disbelieve there are many parents who start scheduling appointments to cut off their kid’s genitals the second their four year old wears his mom’s dress and high heels and calls himself a girl. It is a difficult road and parents of trans kids have a lot of consultation and counseling before deciding how the situation should be handled. Some kids with severe dysphoria may not be able to be handled by simply hoping it is a phase that will just pass.

As for trans sports, there is no good solution without a sizeable number of trans athletes to create equivalent competitions. Hormone therapy is illegal in most competitive sports leagues. The best way is some kind of case-by-case basis.

I can understand the concern that all the LGBT talk leads some kids to feel more confused and want to take a difficult path they might not have considered otherwise. In the internet age, your kids’ exposure is inevitable and with virtue signaling on social media, the notion that LGBT is “special” is a reality for Gen Z. Your choice is either to accept and support them for who they are, or not.

[betsy lima]

I don't disagree with most to that... no, no genital removals... but hormones for sure in adolescence, and chest binding (masectomies are not unheard of), although with all the pushback, I do believe the US will course-correct regarding "gender-affirming" as many countries in Europe have. But like with, say, the recovered memory movement, there is often no justice for the lives that were ruined. And yes, it is cool to be LGBTQ; it seems as if the QIA.. are mostly straight, white, cisgender... I don't think I exaggerate when I say it is cool to be "oppressed" in our local middle and high school. I'm around teens a lot. Sometimes they seem like parodies of themselves. I love them all though.

[Bill Falcon]

The top three 800-meter male runners in my high school had times which would have qualified us for the women's US Olympic trials final and the fastest boy would have won the gold in the last Olympics..and we have over a thousand high schools.

First get over the idea that there are "transgenders"..this doesn't exist. Evolution affirms your sex period. If you think otherwise, it is a delusion and mental illness. Now in a free society you can believe you are George Washington..you can even dress like him and have surgery to look like him BUT you are not George Washington. As for kids...there are no trans kids..only kids who are confused and often pushed/coaxed by the transvestite community for varied reasons but one of them is grooming and pedophilia. You don't have drag queen story hour at nursing homes do you?

The gay community should ditch the trans group asap..

[proprietist]

If you read my comment, I think I was clear that trans women in female sports is probably not fair competition and artificial hormone treatment is banned in most sports leagues. Likewise, it would not be fair if a trans male (biological female) athlete is allowed to compete against cis female athletes if the former has received testosterone treatments. I think it is a niche distraction issue where public opinion happens to be in line with the anti-trans stance so you right-wingers ride it into the ground. Figuring out a solution for a limited number of trans athletes who have undergone some kind of hormone treatment is something that can be done situationally. Private leagues have the right to set their own rules.

As for whether "trans" exists, I follow the science and believe sex and gender are two separate things that both sides of the culture war willfully confuse whenever it is convenient for them. Sex is your biology (which is usually but not 100% binary). This is baked into your DNA. Gender is how your social identity aligns with biological archetypes (which is a fluid range).

Likewise I barely care whatsoever if someone distinguished "race" from "cultural identity" where a white person can identify as culturally black or a black person can identify as culturally white, even altering their appearance. It's a free society and it is no skin off my back (no pun intended).

"there are no trans kids...only kids who are confused and often pushed/coaxed by the transvestite community for varied reasons"

This is not true. First, you yourself said it is a mental illness and there are some children with insurmountable gender dysphoria that will be suicidal if they are forced to align with their sex. We live in an age where it is ok to be who you want to be freely as long as you aren't hurting anyone else. Secondly, I don't think there is any serious number of people in the trans community forcing or asking children to become trans. There may be exceptional, inappropriate cases that have been reported and hopefully punished, but providing support for kids going through phases (temporary or permanent) of gender dysphoria and encouraging them to be themselves is not pushing kids to be trans.

"but one of them is grooming and pedophilia."

This is like saying "there are all kinds of reasons to become a priest or a teacher, but one of them is grooming and pedophilia." It takes a real cynical jerk to assume that providing support at schools to kids who may not get support at home because their parents are assholes like you is motivated by such sick ulterior motives.

[Bill Falcon]

Every white upper class suburban mom wants to have a trans kid....it gives them the attention and validation they crave

[proprietist]

This is such a wild exaggeration, although I wouldn't put it past there to be some shallow outlier cases. The trans people I know have liberal parents who even had some trouble accepting the change. It is not a casual way of life or lightweight decision, and the Right tend to caricature and straw man parents who themselves probably feel very conflicted in most cases. Transitioning and hormone therapy is a point of no-return and changes the child drastically.

[block30]

Bread and circuses.

[plaidshirt]

I've been reliably informed by Reason that Libertarians should be combatants: https://reason.com/video/2022/12/07/why-sex-work-should-be-destigmatized-not-just-decriminalized/

[skunkman]

Libertarians non-combatants? Are you freakin' insane. Absolutely not.

First, how someone desires to engage in sexual relations is up to them. But the "pride" stuff is right out of authoritarianism. Kind of the celebrate what I do or else you're an evil hater." When the result is trying to destroy those that don't agree, it should make you wonder a lot about the source.

Talk about outing yourself. Libertarians that think the pride movement is about personal rights miss that what is really happening is the destruction of the personal rights of those not in the pride faction.

I'm not rooting for anybody. I will celebrate and take pride in any person that is decent others whether they be straight, gay, left, right, male, female, Christian, Jewish, or none of the above and no matter what skin color they are.

[Libertariantranslator]

LP spoiler votes repealed Comstockism and enforced individual rights for women. LP votes also got rid of cruel and unusual laws jailing gays. Then along came the looter Kleptocracy and loused everything up again. We can do no better than to revert to our original, pre-anarco-communist, pre-mystical platform and pre-Dallas Principles. Many a math teacher sighs at the number of repetitions it takes to overcome stupidity, but we overcame and can do it again.

[Bill Falcon]

Pride wars seem to be from one side...society honestly doesn't care about your sexual preference...but the obesession with parades, flags and forcing the rest of us to "celebrate" your own decision drips of immaturity and screaming for attention. Folks who have an insecurity complex and/or narcissim tend to do this..and the knee jerk support by some in the gay community of mentally ill folks ("transgenders") and their focus on sexually mutilating kids is the true cause of normie push back. Drag queens are comedy because men are not women...and drag queen story hour is about normalizing grooming..you don't see drag queens reading stories at nursing homes do you?

Libertarians should be focused on protecting kids from States taking them from their parents so they can get mutilated...that has to stop now...

[proprietist]

You say society doesn't care out of one mouth, and then you also say trans doesn't exist and are pedophilic child genital mutilators.

You don't see drag queens reading at nursing homes because LGBT children are the ones who may be in situations where they are not getting emotional support at home because they have parents like you and you fear for their safety and mental wellbeing. If there are sick pedos mixed in with those third parties, maybe you should consider why your child felt like they had to reach out to someone besides you for "secretive support" in the first place? If you believe trans kids are just mentally ill and not what they think they are, they are not going to feel like you are a person who will support them if they open up to you. That makes you a pretty bad parent.

[Gandydancer]

"Should Libertarians Be Noncombatants in the Pride Wars?"

Sure, you've been irrelevant and ineffectual forever, why stop now?

Hey, stand foursquare for open borders while you're at it.

[Religion and Politics, my life]

If you aren't just talking out your ivory tower asss you know that the number of deranged, perverted, and damaged is so high in that movement that to 'support' is to show a certain hate for them

Even when they reach high office , they look like this
https://d.newsweek.com/en/full/2164236/sam-brinton-during-trevor-projects-trevorlive.webp?w=790&f=f1e676c417a2a927f36efe1e1fe7f5fe

And he is on his way to prison. DON"T PRETEND SURPRISE

[Religion and Politics, my life]

Reason must have told Word to flag "moral" and "perverted" and "natural law" -- because you frame questions about child abuse like its was an algebra word problem
I will come back when it happens but I am sure that at an upcoming Pride parade somebody will kill scores of them.Why? Because perverts picking on children is maybe the worst of all evils

Human beings, Libertarian or not, should oppose fertilizing the growth of these perverts. Did REason say anything when Biden announced Sam Brinton? I don't think so
Here he is , major responsibility in the office for Nuclear Energy

https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/c_crop,d_placeholder_euli9k,h_1987,w_3534,x_0,y_342/dpr_2.0/c_limit,w_600/f_jpg/fl_lossy,q_auto/v1670890442/GettyImages-1188319105_mjw9sh

[Pandaemonium]

I do not care if someone is LGBTQ or otherwise. That's their personal business, not mine, not their neighbors' and not the governments' (State or federal). I do remember when we were passing laws in the 90s to ban gay marriage and some were seriously considering a federal constitutional amendment. I am sure the minority who favored such an amendment, in hindsight, wish they had pushed harder on that (as at the time it seemed almost unthinkable that gay marriage would be federally legalized). That said, I would have opposed it on libertarian grounds.

Now, we have an irrational panic about trans people abusing kids. I've heard that before too, about gay men, and so I am dubious of that alleged "threat." Yes, I know some trans people abuse kids...but so too do some priests and pastors and we're not up in arms about condemning all pastors for the acts of a criminal minority of them. Child predation just seems like it's a go-to insult these days, levied at lots of groups on the left, so now I require more proof before a mere allegation riles me up.

Even with proof, though, you don't punish a law-abiding majority to control a lawless minority. Not when it comes to gun ownership and not when it comes to being trans or a pastor or otherwise. Punishing criminals is usually the best we can do without violating the rights of the innocent. I am open to exceptions where someone is a particular risk but not yet a criminal, but that can't simply be the blanket approach.

I wish we could be a more tolerant society on both sides, right and left, which is largely why I am libertarian. For me, I'm probably not going to be marching in the streets to protect the rights of LGBTQ people, but I can see that there are cultural forces that are, or could easily be marshaled to start, working against their liberty. As such, I can see why they are as vocal as they are, and that's their right.

"Pride" is speech, and free speech is our right as Americans. Sure, as a heterosexual, non-trans person, I don't go out there voicing "pride" in those traits...but no one is ever going to curtail my liberty for having those traits, so I really do not need to do so. If there were a real risk of me losing my liberty for being a non-trans heterosexual, I'd be out there too.

In spirit then, I support their right to be out there and express pride, even though I would never do it myself. Their liberty is something I want to preserve, and it will factor into my decisions at the ballot box.

[Sharon Gallagher]

I am making a good salary from home $6580-$7065/week , which is amazing under a year ago I was jobless in a horrible economy. I thank God every day I was blessed with these instructions and now it’s my duty to pay it forward and share it with Everyone,
🙂 AND GOOD LUCK.:)

Here is I started.……......>> http://WWW.RICHEPAY.COM

[Mother's Lament]

Charliehall is Shrike samefagging his EdG posts. Ask him what she's lied about and he'll ignore you because he's making shit up.

Rep. Luna is on the House Oversight Committee and was briefed directly by the FBI this afternoon. Other HOC members have know confirmed her statement.

[Mother's Lament]

He knows. He was purposefully being retarded.

[perlmonger]

Well, I mean, if that's your appellation, Mr. R I’m better at everything than Charlie Hall and I fucked his mom too Mac, then it's only polite of me to refer to you as Mr. R I’m better at everything than Charlie Hall and I fucked his mom too Mac. Though, I have to say, Mr. R I’m better at everything than Charlie Hall and I fucked his mom too Mac, it's kinda long.

[ElvisIsReal]

I'd leave a comment now and again when something really pissed me off -- even if it didn't show up, it made me feel better. Then the other day one went through.

[2wheelexplorer]

I was kind of disappointed when there was no link to a video or anything...