Trump Says Legislators Committed Treason by Noting That Soldiers Are Not Obligated To Obey Unlawful Orders
The president's authoritarian response to a video posted by six members of Congress, who he says "should be arrested and put on trial," validates their concerns.
In a video message posted this week, six Democratic legislators with military or intelligence backgrounds remind members of the armed forces that they are not obligated to follow unlawful orders. That point is legally uncontroversial. It is also freshly relevant in light of the various questionable ways in which President Donald Trump has deployed the military—especially his summary executions of suspected drug smugglers in the Caribbean and eastern Pacific.
Trump's characteristically over-the-top reaction to the video—which described its production as "SEDITIOUS BEHAVIOR, punishable by DEATH!"—confirms the importance of remembering that soldiers and other public servants have a duty higher than obedience to the president's whims. Trump's response also highlighted his tendency to portray criticism of him as a state crime, which reflects his disregard for freedom of speech as well as his narcissism.
The video features Sen. Elissa Slotkin (D–Mich.), a former CIA officer; Sen. Mark Kelly (D–Ariz.), a former astronaut and U.S. Navy aviator; Rep. Chris Deluzio (D–Pa.), also a former naval officer; Rep. Maggie Goodlander (D–N.H.), a former intelligence officer in the U.S. Navy Reserve; Rep. Chrissy Houlahan (D–Pa.), a former Air Force officer; and Rep. Jason Crow (D–Colo.), a former Army Ranger. They mention those backgrounds while delivering a simple message to "members of the military" and "the intelligence community" who "take risks each day to keep Americans safe": "Our laws are clear. You can refuse illegal orders."
The video criticizes the Trump administration for "pitting our uniformed military and intelligence community professionals against American citizens," saying: "We know you are under enormous stress and pressure right now. Americans trust their military, but that trust is at risk."
The legislators note that "like us, you all swore an oath to protect and defend [the] Constitution." They add that "no one has to carry out orders that violate the law or our Constitution." Although "we know this is hard," they say, "your vigilance is critical," and "we have your back."
The video does not get into specifics. But Trump's domestic military deployments, including his use of National Guard troops and Marines, are legally controversial and create situations in which service members might have to decide whether they should follow orders that violate the Fourth Amendment or the First Amendment. And his unprecedented policy of blowing up boats believed to be carrying illegal drugs, which so far has killed 83 people in 21 attacks, is blatantly at odds with longstanding principles of criminal justice and the traditional military distinction between civilians and combatants.
After that campaign began on September 2, Georgetown University law professor Marty Lederman noted that the first strike "appears to have violated several legal prohibitions," including homicide provisions of federal law and the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). "Regardless of which laws might have been broken," Lederman wrote, "what's more alarming, and of greater long-term concern, is that U.S. military personnel crossed a fundamental line the Department of Defense has been resolutely committed to upholding for many decades—namely, that (except in rare and extreme circumstances not present here) the military must not use lethal force against civilians, even if they are alleged, or even known, to be violating the law."
Given the obvious problems with deciding to kill criminal suspects in cold blood instead of intercepting and arresting them, Lederman wondered: "Why did military personnel agree to such a dubious order?" He considered several possible explanations, each of which he viewed as problematic or unsatisfying. But as far as the allegedly "SEDITIOUS" video is concerned, the important point is that Lederman, for good reason, took it for granted that military personnel had a choice.
"As the Judge Advocate General Handbook explains, subordinates in the military chain of command must presume, in the ordinary course, that orders of superiors in the lawful chain-of-command are themselves lawful," Lederman wrote. "Even so, in a 'rare' case where 'an order seems unlawful,' the subordinate should 'not carry it out right away, but [should] not ignore it either.' She should, instead, 'immediately and respectfully seek clarification of that order'; and if, after receiving a clarification (or after being informed that no clarification is forthcoming), a reasonable person 'would recognize the wrongfulness of the act or order, even in light of a soldier's general duty to obey, then the order is "manifestly illegal," and soldiers have a duty to disobey it.'"
In other words, military personnel not only "can refuse illegal orders"; they have an obligation to do so. Lederman also cited The Commander's Handbook on the Law of Naval Operations, which similarly recognizes an exception to the general rule that "an order requiring the performance of a military duty to act may be inferred to be lawful, and it is disobeyed at the peril of the subordinate." The handbook says that inference "does not apply to a patently illegal order, such as one that directs the commission of a crime." The first example it offers—"an order directing the murder of a civilian [or] a noncombatant"—is clearly relevant to Trump's bloodthirsty anti-drug strategy.
Trump has tried to justify that strategy in various ways: by conflating drug smuggling with violent aggression, by describing the men whose deaths he has ordered as members of "foreign terrorist organizations," by asserting a "noninternational armed conflict," and by preposterously claiming that "we save 25,000 lives" with each boat that is destroyed (which would add up to more than half a million deaths supposedly prevented so far). These arguments have been widely rejected by experts on the law of war.
Trump's policy is "so manifestly unlawful that in any other administration, including Trump's first, if anyone had even dared to propose it, virtually any and every attorney who got wind of it, across the government—and many non-lawyer officials, too—would have immediately dismissed it as obviously out-of-bounds," Lederman wrote. "It wouldn't have been a close call, and therefore it wouldn't have required any detailed memoranda or extended debates."
Consistent with that take, NBC News reported this week that Marine Col. Paul Meagher, the judge advocate general at the U.S. Southern Command in Miami, "expressed concern" that the boat strikes "could amount to extrajudicial killings" and "therefore legally expose service members involved in the operations." Although "the opinion of the top lawyer for the command overseeing a military operation is typically critical to whether or not the operation moves forward," NBC News says, Meagher's opinion "was ultimately overruled by more senior government officials, including officials at the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel."
The story mentions another possible indication of dissent within the military: "The head of Southern Command, Adm. Alvin Holsey, plans to step down after less than a year in a job that typically lasts about three years. Holsey announced in October that he will depart next month."
In this context, a reminder that service members are not just allowed but obligated to disobey "manifestly illegal" orders seems timely and appropriate. But Trump thinks it is "SEDITIOUS" and merits severe punishment.
"It's called SEDITIOUS BEHAVIOR AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL," he wrote on Truth Social on Thursday. "Each one of these traitors to our Country should be ARRESTED AND PUT ON TRIAL. Their words cannot be allowed to stand - We won't have a Country anymore!!! An example MUST BE SET."
Later, Trump added: "This is really bad, and Dangerous to our Country. Their words cannot be allowed to stand. SEDITIOUS BEHAVIOR FROM TRAITORS!!! LOCK THEM UP???"
Trump deploys accusations of treason as recklessly as he threatens to yank broadcast licenses, and both habits reflect his intolerance for speech that offends him, which he thinks should be (or already is) illegal. He either does not know or does not care what the crimes of treason and seditious conspiracy actually entail.
An American is guilty of treason when he "levies war" against the United States or "adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere." A seditious conspiracy is a plot to "overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof."
The video that upset Trump plainly does not fit either of those definitions. Yet during a briefing on Thursday, White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt suggested that it might.
"This morning, President Trump accused six Democratic lawmakers of seditious behavior punishable by death," a reporter noted. "Just to be clear, does the president want to execute members of Congress?"
Leavitt replied "no" but then proceeded to imply that Slotkin et al. had engaged in criminal activity. "You have sitting members of the United States Congress who conspired together to orchestrate a video message to members of the United States military, to active-duty service members, to members of the national security apparatus, encouraging them to defy the president's lawful orders," she said.
Right out of the gate, Leavitt misrepresented what the video says. It is explicitly about "illegal orders," not "the president's lawful orders," and its message jibes with what the UCMJ says about the duties of service members. Examples of "unlawful orders" that should not be obeyed include intentional targeting of civilians (ahem), torture of prisoners, looting of property, and suppression of constitutionally protected protests.
"The sanctity of our military rests on the chain of command, and if that chain of command is broken, it can lead to people getting killed," Leavitt warned. "It can lead to chaos. And that's what these members of Congress, who swore an oath to abide by the Constitution, are essentially encouraging."
This "radical message from sitting members of Congress," Leavitt said, "could inspire chaos and it could incite violence and it certainly could disrupt the chain of command….That is a very, very dangerous message, and it perhaps is punishable by law. I'm not a lawyer. I'll leave that to the Department of Justice and the Department of War to decide."
Since lawyers in those agencies are busy concocting arguments aimed at transforming murder into self-defense, I will save them some time by pointing out that the legislators' video is not, in fact, "punishable by law." Under the Supreme Court's 1969 decision in Brandenburg v. Ohio, even advocacy of illegal conduct is constitutionally protected unless it is both "directed" at inciting "imminent lawless action" and "likely" to have that effect. Far from trying to incite "imminent lawless action," Slotkin et al. urged service members to "stand up for our laws" and "our Constitution," which they accurately said could require disobeying "illegal orders."
Is that observation apt to cause "chaos" by "disrupt[ing] the chain of command," as Leavitt claims? Probably not, since the video merely highlights a principle that is already incorporated into the UCMJ. Service members are not likely to casually deem orders unlawful, since they would have to back up that defense when charged with violating Article 90 of the UCMJ, which applies to anyone who "willfully disobeys a lawful command of his superior commissioned officer," or Article 92, which requires obedience to "any lawful general order or regulation."
Trump thinks any order he issues is ipso facto "lawful," which is obviously not true. He also thinks reiterating a longstanding principle of military law is (or should be) illegal. His predictably authoritarian response to the video validates the concerns of the legislators who produced it.
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Fatass Donnie, Vlad, and Lil Kim - all three cut from the same dictator cloth.
#KillYourRivals
Put Bonesaw in that group. (Edit). They all hate a free press and journalists who speak the truth.
https://psychcentral.com/disorders/treating-pedophilia#ssr-is
You were banned for posting a link to child porn.
So, uh, Shrike, this guy a friend of yours?
https://x.com/jameshartline/status/1991712515785650285?s=46&t=qeA47-JjK6vq0pfnxg60dA
How about this guy too, Shrike? Come across him in your chats?
https://x.com/jameshartline/status/1991332519493738711?s=46&t=qeA47-JjK6vq0pfnxg60dA
Which "unlawful" order specifically are these people referring to? The truth is they consider ALL Trump orders illegal so miss me with your bullshit Sullum.
Deploying the military against persons inside the US. Have you been in a coma?
https://psychcentral.com/disorders/treating-pedophilia#ssr-is
Bogus argument. The politicians did not explicitly say that Trump already gave unlawful orders. They were reminding the military that they are required to NOT obey any unlawful orders given in the future. You can try to put words in their mouths but the videotape shows your argument is not valid.
Correct. Knee jerk conservatives lie as much as Emo progs do.
So, what exactly happened to your original SPB account?
Maybe the pedophile lost his password.
https://psychcentral.com/disorders/treating-pedophilia#ssr-is
Yes your bogus argument has no legs.
You say the military is "not required" to obey an order that an individual deems unlawful? Does Rachel Maddow who programs your thoughts get to decide what is lawful or not?
These demonrats are not in any position to preach to the military and it is an insult to the military that these demonrats think they should have to remind the military of what they already know.
You didn't read this article at all, did you ?
I didn't. JS;dr.
And trump didn't explicitly say they committed sedition and would be put to death.
And the option for a military person is to resign, not just ignore an order. All orders are presumed by troops to be lawful per scotus precedence.
Did you read the fucking article? To wit (emphasis added for the reading-comprehension impaired):
Also, tell me you never served without telling me. For one, enlistees cannot simply resign.
So your citation agrees with me, then says to seek clarification. Glad we cleared that up.
Now. What is the punishment if the soldier refuses a lawful order and disregards it. Please tell us dummy.
Here. More for you.
Rule 916(d) of the Manual for Courts Martial says:
It is a defense to any offense that the accused was acting pursuant to orders unless the accused knew the orders to be unlawful or a person of ordinary sense and understanding would have known the orders to be unlawful.
Requires knowledge. Not assumptions.
In fact in one of the more famous cases William Calley was found guilty for knowingly issuing an illegal order.
The. We have the 2006 case of Lt Watanda who claimed the Iraq War was illegal. Want to know what the military courts ruled?
[t]he order to deploy soldiers is a non-justiciable political question … an accused may not excuse his disobedience of an order to proceed to foreign duty on the ground that our presence there does not conform to his notions of legality.
So no, his duty was not to assume the legality of an order.
2016 Nathan Smith tried to refuse a deployment to Kuwait under the same belief of legality. Want to guess what the determination was?
Should we get into the 19 legal uses of torture prior to 2006? Want to guess the precedence foe torture against those prior to changes in law? No?
There is a reason why your own fucking citation says in a rare case, like the first case I mentioned above regarding gunning down civilians.
So stop assuming you know jack shit.
Well Lester, don't go around raping children. Why did I remind you of that? No reason in particular, just thought you especially and especially now should be reminded.
Doesn't really hold water as no reason at all now does it.
Your facts are leftist because they contradict the narrative.
What facts?
This joke writes itself.
JS;dr
Of course you won’t read anything critical of dear leader. You’re like a Scientologist. You live in a MAGA vacuum like an L Ron con man does.
Pedophilic clown, to help prevent splurges of your surges of MAPedo urges read:
https://psychcentral.com/disorders/treating-pedophilia#ssr-is
You were banned for posting a link to child porn.
JS;dr
"The video criticizes the Trump administration for "pitting our uniformed military and intelligence community professionals against American citizens," saying: "We know you are under enormous stress and pressure right now. Americans trust their military, but that trust is at risk.""
This is the problem with the world today. TOO MANY LYING SACKS OF SHIT. Especially posing as journalists in media.
Maybe they shouldn't have been inciting sedition?
Leftists are so dishonest there’s no point in trying to have honest discussions with them.
Just as it is impossible to win an argument with stupid because stupid fails to comprehend, arguing with demonrats is an equal waste of time because they are lying sacks of gaslit shit.
Yup. And anyone who criticizes Trump is a leftist Democrat. There are no independents, no libertarians, and no people who actually think for themselves. Only Trump supporters and leftists. That's it. So if anyone criticizes Trump they're lying sacks of gaslit leftist shit, because being leftist is the only possible reason to not support everything Trump does. Yup. With a false dichotomy like that you don't even need to argue or listen to anyone. You can just tell them what they think, argue against it, tell them to fuck off, and then smugly declare victory. Fallacies are pretty awesome like that. That's why they are the standard arguments for Trump defenders in these comments.
Speaking of the stupid.
He said sedition caries the penalty of death. He didn't accuse anyone directly of sedition.
Just like your lefty boos claim the democrats never said to ignore lawful orders despite screaming everything he does is illegal.
Weird how you temper arguments differently dependent on the side jakey.
Trump intelligently threw the exact same rhetorical comment as they did back at them and they are too stupid to realize it.
What if's abound
And jakey fell for it.
Does Liz Cheney or Marjorie Taylor Greene get to decide what was a lawful order or not?
The judicial is now doing executive functions so it makes sense the legislative do that job.
Stupid Reason. You just don't understand.
If a Democrat president was sending soldiers to Republican cities in order to intimidate local governments, was having soldiers murder suspected criminals on the high seas without pretending to have a trial, and threatening to start wars in Africa and South America without permission from Congress, then it would be completely and totally valid for Republicans to remind soldiers that they don't have to obey unlawful orders.
But because Trump is president and Democrats are the ones reminding soldiers, what they are doing amounts to treason.
See the difference?
There is so much ignorance on your post Maddow. Can you do better at preparation before your next show Monday?