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Russia

Anticlimactic End to Wagner Group's Armed Rebellion in Russia

Plus: Florida drag law ruled unconstitutional, Meta cancels Canadian news posts, and more...

Elizabeth Nolan Brown | 6.26.2023 9:33 AM

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On June 24, a tank of PMC Wagner fighters outside the headquarters of the Russian Southern Military District | Erik Romanenko/ZUMAPRESS/Newscom
(Erik Romanenko/ZUMAPRESS/Newscom)

The world was captivated this weekend as Russian mercenaries exited Ukraine and started marching back into Russia. The group, led by Yevgeny Prigozhin—head of the paramilitary outfit the Wagner Group—took control of the southern Russia city of Rostov-on-Don by early Saturday. The fighters then went on to take control of Voronezh, between Rostov-on-Don and Moscow, reportedly with the help of troops and commanders in the Russian military.

A significant conflict within Russia seemed imminent—until Pregozhin's forces suddenly retreated.

So…what the heck was this? No one is entirely sure. But the situation in Russia and Ukraine has returned, more or less, to the regrettable status quo.

How It Started

Prigozhin's turn "from 'malcontent Russian paramilitary leader' to 'armed rebel threatening to take Russian territory and oust Russia's top military leadership'"—as Daniel Drezner put it—didn't come out of the blue. "Prigozhin has been lobbing insults at Russia's military leadership for many weeks," as The Atlantic's Anne Applebaum noted on Friday, the day Prigozhin "broke with the official narrative and directly blamed them, and their oligarch friends, for launching the full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022."

On Friday, Prigozhin said that Russia's publicly stated reasons for invading Ukraine were a sham and that the invasion was really premised on "completely different reasons"—namely, greedy Russian elites yearning to get more out of Ukraine's Donbas region, which they had been plundering since 2014.

"The evil brought by the military leadership of the country must be stopped," Prigozhin declared: 

They neglect the lives of soldiers. They forgot the word "justice," and we will bring it back.

Those, who destroyed today our guys, who destroyed tens, tens of thousands of lives of Russian soldiers will be punished.

I'm asking: no one resist. Everyone who will try to resist, we will consider them a danger and destroy them immediately, including any checkpoints on our way. And any aviation that we see above our heads.

I'm asking everyone to remain calm, do not succumb to provocations, and remain in their houses. Ideally, those along our way, do not go outside.

After we finished what we started, we will return to the frontline to protect our motherland.

Presidential authority, Government, Ministry of Internal Affairs, Rosgvardia, and other departments will continue operating as before.

We will deal with those who destroy Russian soldiers. And we will return to the frontline.

Justice in the Army will be restored. And after this, justice for the whole of Russia.

Needless to say, this does not mean Prigozhin was motivated by a sudden, pure concern for justice.

Don't Call It a Coup Attempt?

"I think Prigozhin's behavior can best be explained by good-old-fashioned prospect theory," wrote Drezner. "He has been feuding with Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, and earlier this month Putin made it clear to Russian military bloggers that the time had come for Wagner Group forces to be put under control of the Russian military. After that negative shock, Progizhin appears to be gambling for resurrection."

"Prigozhin is cynical, brutal, and violent. He and his men are motivated by money and self-interest," suggested Applebaum. "Prigozhin is offering them a psychologically comfortable explanation for their current predicament: They failed to defeat Ukraine because they were betrayed by their leaders."

Nonetheless, the prospect of someone—anyone—sticking it to Putin was exciting for many onlookers.

While not quite a coup attempt, it promised to perhaps change the course of the Russian war in Ukraine—though some experts doubted from the onset that it could amount to much.

"What is going on in #Russia is no military coup," tweeted Oxford professor of government Stathis Kalyvas. "Coups tend to be launched at the center seeking to generate cascades of compliance. This is an armed rebellion launched from a peripheral stronghold. Hard to see how it could succeed short of mass defections in the Russian military."

"This was a mutiny more than a coup or an insurrection," suggested Lawrence Freedman, emeritus professor of war studies at King's College London, "but possibly to Prigozhin's surprise and certainly Putin's alarm it almost turned into something more."

How It's Going

And then, by Saturday afternoon, it was all over. Prigozhin and his men retreated. Moscow was unscathed.

"What had started as a mutinous thunder-run to Moscow by the Wagner Group ended up being something more like a Joyride of the Valkyries," commented the Ukraine-based journalist Tim Mak.

Prigozhin issued the following statement:

They were going to dismantle PMC Wagner. We came out on 23 June to the March of Justice. In a day, we walked to nearly 200km away from Moscow. In this time, we did not spill a single drop of blood of our fighters. Now, the moment has come when blood may spill. That's why, understanding the responsibility for spilling Russian blood on one of the sides, we are turning back our convoys and going back to field camps according to the plan.

Prigozhin's explanation for retreat—that he did not want more bloodshed—rings a bit hollow, Freedman suggests:

Prigozhin's own explanation was that he did not want more Russian blood to be shed, but this is not a man known for his squeamishness when it comes to the loss of human life, and who cannot have supposed when he set off from the Donbas across the border into Russia that nobody would get hurt. There were casualties. There were strikes against the Wagner column from the air. Its air defences appear to have shot down six helicopters and an Il-18 command and control aircraft, killing as many as 13 pilots.

The prospective battle on the outskirts of Moscow did not promise to be massive. Far from involving the mass armies or huge crowds usually to the fore at such potentially transformational moments in Russian history, this was small beer….As the drive to Moscow was unexpectedly quick reinforcements might have arrived too late if fighting had begun on Saturday evening. This might have ended up as a bloody encounter but that was not certain.

I suspect a bigger issue than the prospect of a fight for the city was that Prigozhin was unsure of where this adventure was taking him. His plan, which had apparently been under development since the early spring, had gone further than he had expected. Perhaps it really was about getting rid of Sergei Shoigu and Valery Gerasimov, or ensuring the status, role, and funding of his Wagner group post-Bakhmut, with no intent to take out Putin. Putin, however, unsurprisingly took his withering criticisms of his military leadership ("scumbags," "should be shot") and in particular his debunking of the rationale for the war, personally. Once denounced and threatened by the President Prigozhin had little choice but to use his military strength to protect himself and force some sort of deal with the Kremlin.

There was reportedly a deal struck between the Wagner Group and Russian authorities to let Prigozhin and his men avoid prosecution. From the Associated Press:

Under the deal announced Saturday by Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov, Prigozhin will go to neighboring Belarus, which has supported Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Charges against him of mounting an armed rebellion will be dropped.

The government also said it would not prosecute Wagner fighters who took part, while those who did not join in were to be offered contracts by the Defense Ministry. Prigozhin ordered his troops back to their field camps in Ukraine, where they have been fighting alongside Russian regular soldiers.

Putin had vowed earlier to punish those behind the armed uprising led by his onetime protege. In a televised speech to the nation, he called the rebellion a "betrayal" and "treason."

In allowing Prigozhin and his forces to go free, Peskov said, Putin's "highest goal" was "to avoid bloodshed and internal confrontation with unpredictable results."

In the end, writes Freedman, "this great clash between Putin and Prigozhin, on which the future of Russia and so much else depended, ended as an anti-climactic no-score draw, damaging both men."

"It is impossible to know whether Prigozhin's weekend adventure will make him a major player in Russia's future, or award him a death sentence," adds Aris Roussinos at UnHerd. "This dramatic Saturday roadshow simultaneously humiliated Putin, and suddenly established Prigozhin's own position—if only for a day—as the de facto second most powerful man in Russia. His survival will now depend on whether Putin finds the risks embodied in Prigozhin, greater than the potential rewards he promises if only given the opportunity to expand his role."


FREE MINDS

BREAKING: Federal judge rules Florida is barred from enforcing the state's new anti-drag law (SB 1438), granting a preliminary injunction in the case brought by Hamburger Mary's. More to come at Law Dork: https://t.co/oFbD0Zrr6I pic.twitter.com/PD0vzLwNzm

— Chris "Law Dork" Geidner (@chrisgeidner) June 23, 2023

Read more from the decision at The Volokh Conspiracy.


FREE MARKETS

Meta cancels Facebook and Instagram news posts in Canada. Meta is testing out a plan to stop allowing news to be posted on Facebook and Instagram in Canada, following the country's passage of the Online News Act (a.k.a. Bill C-18). This law orders tech companies to pay fees to media outlets when people post links to their stories—a plan some U.S. senators and some California legislators want to emulate here.

"We have repeatedly shared that in order to comply with Bill C-18, passed today in Parliament, content from news outlets, including news publishers and broadcasters, will no longer be available to people accessing our platforms in Canada," said Meta in a statement posted last Thursday. "Today, we are confirming that news availability will be ended on Facebook and Instagram for all users in Canada prior to the Online News Act (Bill C-18) taking effect."


QUICK HITS

• A federal appeals court says that running a state-legal marijuana dispensary can be grounds for having an application for U.S. citizenship denied.

• Outlawing TikTok would be a gravely disproportionate response to any concerns that the app poses.

• The declassified COVID-19 origins report was released last Friday.

• RIP Margaret Gilleo, "who turned a local dispute over an antiwar sign on her lawn into a freedom-of-speech showdown at the Supreme Court."

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NEXT: Bombing Mexican Cartels Won't Stop Fentanyl

Elizabeth Nolan Brown is a senior editor at Reason.

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  1. Fist of Etiquette   2 years ago

    The world was captivated this weekend as Russian mercenaries exited Ukraine and started marching back into Russia.

    Speaking of marching things back...

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    2. SRG   2 years ago

      Retreat from Moscow

      1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

        Cute.

        1. Public Entelectual   2 years ago

          Up the Dnieper without a paddle
          https://vvattsupwiththat.blogspot.com/2023/06/unquiet-flow-don-as-black-sea-tempers.html

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          2. rev-arthur-l-kuckland   2 years ago

            Dude, nobody falls for the fake watts up with that sight

          3. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

            Quit pushing your scam site, Shrike.

      2. TheReEncogitationer   2 years ago

        Anticlimactic End to Wagner Group's Armed Rebellion in Russia

        "Anticlimactic?" Coming from ENB, does this mean Yevgeny couldn't get it up? Did she Don her Zelenskyy drag and say: "No sammiches for you?" 🙂

        1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

          Dit … dit … dit …

          1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

            S

            1. TheReEncogitationer   2 years ago

              ?

    3. TheReEncogitationer   2 years ago

      A significant conflict within Russia seemed imminent—until Pregozhin's forces suddenly retreated.

      "Brave Yevgeny ran away!
      Bravely ran away, away!
      When Zelensky then Putin reared their heads,
      Yevgeny turned his tail and fled!
      He went right into Belarus,
      Because he is a Nazi puss!
      Brave, brave, brave Yevgeny!" 🙂

      1. SRG   2 years ago

        "No I never!" 🙂

        1. TheReEncogitationer   2 years ago

          Here's hoping that the Fat Lady sings for Yevgeny and the Wagner Group in Belarus and that they all meet up with the heirs of The Brothers Bielski:

          Defiance Official Trailer (HD)
          https://youtu.be/FVNR8PrtnQc

          Addendum: The Brothers Bielski weren't sent by God, they were just Good Humor Men dealing out cold vengeance, they way it's meant to be served, who just happened to save countless thousands of lives in the process! Sweet! 🙂

  2. Fist of Etiquette   2 years ago

    ...Putin made it clear to Russian military bloggers that the time had come for Wagner Group forces to be put under control of the Russian military.

    How did that work out for him.

    1. Spiritus Mundi   2 years ago

      Wagner troops are said to have all signed contracts with the Russian army, so pretty good.

      1. Bubba Jones   2 years ago

        But now they're far out of position and commanded by the thoroughly competent regular military.

        1. Nardz   2 years ago

          They're like 60 miles from Kiev

  3. Spiritus Mundi   2 years ago (edited)

    Reason must be apoplectic. Fiona is on suicide watch.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/ban-encouraging-illegal-immigration-not-unconstitutional-supreme-court

    1. rev-arthur-l-kuckland   2 years ago

      They tow the Clinton line too much to be "suicided"

  4. Fist of Etiquette   2 years ago

    Federal judge rules Florida is barred from enforcing the state's new anti-drag law...

    SAYS THE LAWYER WHO WEARS A BLACK DRESS TO WORK.

    1. Fats of Fury   2 years ago

      Is there interstate commerce going on? WTF is the Federal court involved?

      1. A Cynical Asshole   2 years ago

        My guess would be first amendment grounds. Performing in "woman face" is protected speech, I guess. Which means black face/ minstrel shows should be making a comeback any day now.

        1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

          Yeah, I guess, if there is someone out there who is itching to do minstrel shows.

          1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

            Ask Justin Trudeau.

            1. JesseAz   2 years ago

              Or Elizabeth Warren.

              1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

                Wouldn't that be "red-face"?

                1. JesseAz   2 years ago

                  Yes. But all forms of minstrel.

          2. JesseAz   2 years ago

            There are plenty. Many of them work for racial activist groups. Talcum X is the best example.

            Or are you denying trans racialism is real?

    2. Nardz   2 years ago

      Why even pretend to have states anymore?

      1. Idaho Bob   2 years ago

        That's the rub with the left. SCOTUS is "illegitimate" because they mostly enforce the Constitution to the detriment of the Fed authority.

        1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

          Yeah, it's only the left. The right never complains when a Supreme Court decision doesn't go their way:

          https://news.yahoo.com/trump-livid-secret-service-potus-is-pissed-supreme-court-decision-jan-6-hearing-185140594.html

          “Just fyi. POTUS is pissed,” reads the message, dated Dec. 11, 2020. “breaking news - Supreme Court denied his law suit. He is livid now.”

          1. Zeb   2 years ago

            The right isn't allowed to ever disagree with SC decisions?

            1. JesseAz   2 years ago

              This wasn't even losing in court. It was denial of cert.

            2. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

              Mike is just making another bullshit ‘ boaf sidez!’ argument.

          2. Idaho Bob   2 years ago

            Trump is pissed.

            The Left calls the court illegitimate.

            Just a slight difference in the rhetoric, right Mikey?

            1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

              You're right. "Illegitimate" has a lot of syllables for Trump.

            2. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

              It wouldn't be a post from the Meridian Moron if he wasn't complaining about the right in some fashion.

              1. JesseAz   2 years ago

                Hey he made his first tepid Biden criticism since 2020 last week and came asking for credit for it.

            3. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

              Wasn't hard to find another example, where Trump clearly disputed the legitimacy of the Supreme Court:

              https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-rips-supreme-court-political-body-after-ruling-against-him-2022-11

              "Why would anybody be surprised that the Supreme Court has ruled against me, they always do! It is unprecedented to be handing over Tax Returns, & it creates a terrible precedent for future Presidents," Trump said in a post early Wednesday morning. "The Supreme Court has lost its honor, prestige, and standing, & has become nothing more than a political body, with our Country paying the price."

              1. Idaho Bob   2 years ago

                Trump vs the entire democratic party. The court rules against Trump and he becomes predictably petulant.

                The Court rules on guns, baby murder, or reeling in the EPA, and leftists demand court packing and converge Justice's homes.

                They are not the same, you disingenuous prick.

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                2. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

                  Go on. Tally up your grievances about all of the wrongs of Team Blue, while excusing any wrongs of Team Red.

                  1. Idaho Bob   2 years ago

                    Projection, Mikey.

                    Everyone here knows defending the left is your tactic, 100% of the time.

                    1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

                      Yeah, like this prime example of my lefty sympathies:

                      https://reason.com/2023/06/21/arkansas-ban-on-gender-transition-treatments-for-minors-ruled-unconstitutional/?comments=true#comment-10119430

                    2. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

                      One comment out of many stating otherwise.

  5. Fist of Etiquette   2 years ago

    Meta cancels Facebook and Instagram news posts in Canada.

    This better not be a protest or Facebook is about to get its finances frozen.

    1. Anomalous   2 years ago (edited)

      Does Canada not know that VPNs are a thing?

      1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

        Those who don't are about to find out.

        Klaus Schwab Chrystia Freeland Justin Trudeau to ban VPN'S in 3... 2... 1...

        1. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

          Canadians really should overthrow him.

          1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

            We tried that last February.

            Nobody voted for the twat, and over two thirds of Canadians voted for other parties than his, but he sits there like a little king.

            1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

              The only reason Trudeau is still PM is that he's supported by Jagmeet Singh of the NDP. Without the NDP, Trudeau is toast.

              1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

                Jagmeet Singh is a corporatist suckhole and a graduate of the WEF Young Leadership program just like Freeland and Trudeau. When Schwab boasted he was running the Canadian government he wasn't kidding.

                Most of the old red NDPers hate Singh and think he's a closet LP, but the young woke members have his back.

      2. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago

        Irony that Canadian Citizens have to use a VPN like so much China dissidents.

    2. Trollificus   2 years ago

      Well, it depends. Did Zuckerberg honk any horns prior to the statement?

  6. Social Justice is neither   2 years ago

    Other than failure, how exactly was this not a coup attempt? Some leftist says so? Oh right, can't have military leaders turning against and acting expressly against their commander be considered a coup because Milley is a hero to leftists like ENB.

    1. SRG   2 years ago

      Well, Lawrence Freedman used to be an active member of the local Liberal Party in Wimbledon.

    2. Rocinante   2 years ago

      This was not a coup attempt but January 6 was an insurrection, got it.

      1. Ajsloss   2 years ago

        The people on January 6 had a fire extinguisher; ipso facto, insurrection.

        1. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

          Correction. Am ASSAULT fire extinguisher.

          1. Ajsloss   2 years ago

            Sorry, I forgot it had one of those fold-down shoulder thingies.

      2. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

        Most media outlets seem to be setting on “mutiny”.

    3. JesseAz   2 years ago (edited)

      I saw no feet on a desk. Not a coup attempt.

      1. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

        No shaman either.

    4. Overt   2 years ago (edited)

      “Other than failure, how exactly was this not a coup attempt?”

      I mean, the stated intent of Pippin was to remove the military leadership, not the government or Putin. Now we can certainly ask whether that is ACTUALLY what he intended to do, but if we take him at his word, this would fit the definition of “mutiny”, not “coup”.

      1. Nardz   2 years ago

        Correct

      2. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

        I mean, the stated intent of Pippin was to remove the military leadership, not the government or Putin.

        Which is why he was always second banana to Jordan.

        1. R Mac   2 years ago

          Ron Harper was underrated.

  7. Longtobefree   2 years ago

    I suspect Prigozhin won't be taking any helicopter rides in the future.

    1. SRG   2 years ago

      He might also avoid proximity to windows, taking the stairs down, going in motor-boats or checking into hospitals.

    2. Sometimes a Great Notion   2 years ago

      He should invest in a geiger counter and hire a few food testers.

    3. tracerv   2 years ago

      Wonder if he has a food taster like in medieval times?

    4. A Thinking Mind   2 years ago

      Robert Barnes suggested the whole thing was orchestrated by Putin to root out actual dissidents, by seeing who supported Prigozhin. Essentially running something up the flag to see who saluted, that sort of thing. Otherwise Prigozhin would already be dead or exiled to Siberia.

      1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

        That doesn't make sense. Why would Putin orchestrate an event that makes Putin look weak in a highly public way.

        1. Ajsloss   2 years ago

          Because when the dissidents start suiciding themselves, Putin no longer looks weak?

          1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago (edited)

            All the people who witnessed the Wagner Group’s tanks rolling their way halfway to the Kremlin will just forget what they saw?

            Did Putin also script Prigozhin’s public condemnation of the corrupt Russian oligarchy?

            1. Ajsloss   2 years ago

              "All the people who witnessed the Wagner Group’s tanks rolling their way halfway to the Kremlin will just forget what they saw?"

              Ummm.... if the people ordering those tanks start winding up dead? Yeah, I'm sure the normal citizens absolutely will forget what they saw.

              1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago (edited)

                Did you see the photos of regular citizens in Rostov-on-Don standing around video’ing the Wagner troops, taking selfies with them?

                Those people on the street with slighly confused, yet nonchalant attitude toward the whole matter are going to be quaking in their boots because some Wagner officer ends up dead?

            2. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

              All the people who witnessed the Wagner Group’s tanks rolling their way halfway to the Kremlin will just forget what they saw?

              Yes. Other than Wagner decommissioning a few military helicopters and a fire at a fuel depot, it was mostly peaceful.

        2. A Thinking Mind   2 years ago

          Because looking weak can always be a ploy if you're actually strong. If you leak that your units in a certain area are out of ammunition when they're actually heavily fortified, and the enemy attacks that position, you gain an advantage.

          Putin might be in a strong enough position that he doesn't give a shit what Western media actually thinks about him.

          1. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

            Because looking weak can always be a ploy if you’re actually strong.

            AKA - misinformation. I have heard rumors the Russians have some experience with this.

            1. Social Justice is neither   2 years ago

              I thought misinformation was when you said true but inconvenient things.

        3. JesseAz   2 years ago

          You literally think putin bombed his own pipeline...

          1. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

            What a maroon.

      2. Nardz   2 years ago

        Most likely, imo, is that Prigozhin is a loon, but a useful loon, who's ultimately harmless so Putin let's him pop off now and then.
        Compare Putin's response here to the desperate insecurity of our ruling establishment in the face of Jan 6.
        Who's more stable?

      3. JFree   2 years ago

        What an idiotic take. Putin playing 6d tiddly winks. I think a better take tan that is the joke that Ukraine was making:

        18 months ago, it was widely accepted that the Russian army was the 2nd strongest in the world. A week ago, it was widely accepted that the Russian army is the 2nd strongest army in Ukraine. Today, it appears that the Russian army is the 2nd strongest army in Russia.

        Prigozhin backed down because he didn't get the widespread support he needed to succeed. And partially because he truly believed that Putin would support his effort to reorganize the military - and Putin's speech proved that wasn't going to happen.

        There is plenty of analysis of what's happening from people who understand what they are saying rather than just spouting conspiratorial shit because they like the sound of their own voice.

        1. JesseAz   2 years ago

          Where was that widely accepted outside of nuclear capacity?

          1. JFree   2 years ago (edited)

            It’s a joke you humorless twit. And its funny because it’s true.

            And based purely on nuclear weapons - Russia easily has the most.

            1. JesseAz   2 years ago

              Where was the joke? Maybe it was masked and I missed it.

              1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

                Lefty humor sucks.

  8. Jerry B.   2 years ago

    "The declassified COVID-19 origins report was released last Friday."

    Sorry Tom Sawyer. The whitewashing has already been taken care of.

    1. Ajsloss   2 years ago

      Yeah right. Today's Tom Sawyer's mind is not for rent to any god or government.

    2. JesseAz   2 years ago

      Was it Mike on Saturday still claiming lab leak theory had no evidence?

      1. Nazi-Chipping Warlock   2 years ago

        Mike will still be saying that in four months.

        1. Overt   2 years ago

          Most likely it will be some Liarson Maneuver like, "I've told you lying liars a hundred times, there is no evidence that Fauci personally bankrolled this research with the express intent to infect the world with COVID!" That's his schtick- pick a dumb tangent and make a big deal out of it to distract people from the larger message.

          1. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago (edited)

            Not to mention the hyper-pedantry. There's a reason "you couldn't see their BLM membership cards" became a meme associated with him.

      2. Overt   2 years ago

        Wait, what?

        1. JesseAz   2 years ago

          Just said it was equally plausible as randomly occurring.

          https://reason.com/2023/06/24/flo-crivello-says-a-i-will-be-bigger-than-the-internet/?comments=true#comment-10124834

          1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

            Mike Laursen 2 days ago
            It’s overshadowed by news from Russia, but the consolidated intelligence report on the origins of COVID-19 was released on Friday:
            https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66005240
            And it’s … inconclusive, more cautious than recent news reports, and doesn’t break any new ground:
            “The Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) said both a natural and laboratory origin remain plausible scenarios.”

            Followed by:

            Mike Laursen 2 days ago (edited)
            I had got the impression from recent reporting that COVID-19 “patient zero”, Ben Hu, died. But he is still alive, and for what it is worth, denies having had the disease at that time:
            https://www.science.org/content/article/ridiculous-says-chinese-scientist-accused-being-pandemic-s-patient-zero
            “The recent news about so-called ‘patient zero’ in WIV are absolutely rumors and ridiculous,” Ben Hu emailed Science in his first public response to the charges, which have been attributed to anonymous former and current U.S. Department of State officials.

            1. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

              “The recent news about so-called ‘patient zero’ in WIV are absolutely rumors and ridiculous,” - Ben "Wuflu" Hu

              "I don't know what the fuck they keep going on about. I ain't sick." - "Typhoid" Mary Mallon

    3. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

      Who cares at this point except for the Trump cultists here? It was never important.

      1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

        Umm, this wasn't me who posted that comment above.

        1. JesseAz   2 years ago

          Mess up using a sock Jeff?

          1. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

            Yeah, what the fuck was that? Who would imitate jeffy just to post such an inane comment?

            And who else was shitposting one-liners today? Looks like jeffy thought he was still logged in as raspberrydinners. LOL!

            1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

              Yeah, what the fuck was that? Who would imitate jeffy just to post such an inane comment?

              Someone who hates me and has far too much time to spend here at Reason trolling and shitposting all the time. That would describe at least a half-dozen of you.

              1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

                Careful there, Inceljeffy, the paranoia is gonna get ya.

              2. R Mac   2 years ago

                Haha, you got caught shitlunches.

              3. JesseAz   2 years ago

                So baseless assertions?

              4. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

                Someone who hates me and has far too much time to spend here at Reason trolling and shitposting all the time.

                Wow. That is a brutally honest projection. I hope you have shared these feelings with your therapist.

      2. Zeb   2 years ago

        That's an absurd take. Who wouldn't care that a massively disruptive pandemic was likely caused by a fuckup? And how would support for Trump or not have anything at all to do with whether or not anyone cares?

        1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

          That was a troll doppleganger, not me.

          1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

            Right. So it was "Tulpa".

  9. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

    [Prigozin] and his men are motivated by money and self-interest."

    Those are the common motivations of mercenary troops from the beginning of history. Not exactly a great insight.

    1. Not Robbers=Nut Rubbers   2 years ago

      [Prigozin] and his men All people are motivated by money and self-interest.

    2. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

      Did someone claim it was a great insight?

      1. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

        It is a tautology, and it is quoted as if it were an unexpected determination.

        1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

          it is quoted as if

          Well, it is is objectively true that it was a quote.

          1. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

            Just can’t help yourself, can you?

            1. R Mac   2 years ago

              Mike Liarson is a squawking bird named Dee and should be treated as such.

  10. Fats of Fury   2 years ago

    More than likely Prigozhin and Putin are splitting up the 6.2 billion thoroughly modern Milley found in the sofa cushions.

    1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

      Is that the same Mark Milley who fought to stop Trump from attacking Iran except the documents say otherwise?

      Whoever was recommending these people to Trump is probably the answer to a lot of questions.

      1. tracerv   2 years ago

        Bet it was Pompeo.

      2. Fats of Fury   2 years ago

        Trump chose poorly
        https://www.flickr.com/photos/66890686@N02/51328392768/

  11. Honest Economics   2 years ago

    For sound economic perspective go to https://honesteconomics.substack.com/

    1. Derp-o-Matic 6000   2 years ago

      No, go away

  12. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

    Resident sober genius Sarcasmic was in fine form yesterday:

    "they’re so fucking stupid that they think they’re clever when they see people smarter than them discuss people and shout “Ideas!” as if smart people who discuss ideas never talk about people. But you’ll never see them in a conversation about ideas."

    That's right everyone, Sarcasmic thinks he's smarter than us.

    Then Jeff rode up to white knight for him.

    "Sarcasmic is smarter than you. I’m smarter than you. 90% of the phone book is smarter than you. Hell, probably the phone book itself is smarter than you."

    So I thought a poll might be fun. Are Sarcasmic and Jeff viewed by you all as the big-brained boffins they say that they are?

    But Jeff didn't like that idea too much, and fretted that everyone unfairly thinks he's an idiot. Somehow wants to take an online IQ test instead. Presumably the same one that told our angry drunken malapropism generator that he has an IQ of 140.

    See what fun you miss if you skip weekends?

    1. Hank Ferrous   2 years ago

      ML, I think all of the 'libertarian' left-leaning/progressive types who comment here believe that they are not only smarter, but superior in every way to people who do not share their belief system. My guess is that it's a combination of stupidity & ignorance, shitty education, the belief that they cannot be wrong, and the continuous affirmation they receive within their in-groups. Sarcasmic can, when not being a prick -be it drunk or off his meds, offer the occasional interesting point. SophistJeff, far more rarely, and I have no way to determine if he's an idiot, but he is definitely a low integrity person. I suppose that may be a defining trait of the team blue folks who comment here, beyond the synchronized thinking, the lack of integrity demonstrated in their commenting history.

      1. Derp-o-Matic 6000   2 years ago

        I think all of the ‘libertarian’ left-leaning/progressive types who comment here believe that they are not only smarter, but superior in every way to people who do not share their belief system. My guess is that it’s a combination of stupidity & ignorance, shitty education, the belief that they cannot be wrong, and the continuous affirmation they receive within their in-groups.

        Sums up every progressive i've ever encountered, faux-libertarian or no

      2. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

        I think all of the ‘libertarian’ left-leaning/progressive types who comment here believe that they are not only smarter, but superior in every way to people who do not share their belief system.

        that describes every ideologue in any ideological movement ever.

        I do find it is rich that you all think that you alone have the sole understanding of what TRUE LIBERTARIANISM is, but I am not allowed to offer my opinion on the matter lest I be regarded as arrogant or condescending.

        1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

          Inceljeff, you and Sarc are the only folks here who do exactly that. It's a nice bit of projection from you.

          1. sarcasmic   2 years ago

            You kidding? Anytime anyone strays off the Trumpian reservation they're attacked for being leftists, while the attacker claims "true" libertarians are Trumpian conservatives. And people say I start off the day with a drink? Get off the sauce, dude.

            1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

              Yes, Mr. T. Scotsman.

              1. sarcasmic   2 years ago (edited)

                You guys accusing others of doing what you are doing while you are doing it would be funny if you didn’t do it so often.

                1. JesseAz   2 years ago

                  Projection. You are the biggest hypocrite here.

            2. JesseAz   2 years ago

              You call others trump cultists and conservatives. You claimed you were the one true libertarian from an outdated online test. Lol.

              The defining feature of leftists here is their own hypocrisy.

            3. R Mac   2 years ago

              A lot of people here criticize Trump and aren’t called leftists.

              1. JesseAz   2 years ago

                Everyone here has criticized him. They don't dont buy every single false narratives the media pushes against him. That's what enrages jeff and sarc the most.

          2. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

            Oh fuck off. How many times have you or countless others made some comment along the lines of "gee I wish Reason was a libertarian publication..." or condemn Reason for supposedly being "leftist"? How many of you hold up the Mises Caucus or Dave Smith or Brendan O'Neill as being examples of "real libertarians" that Reason should emulate?

            You all do the exact same fucking thing and you are just upset that other people have different opinions.

            1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

              Yep, Inceljeffy thinks he's the one true libertarian here. Thanks for proving my point.

            2. JesseAz   2 years ago

              So youre being a hypocrite?

        2. JesseAz   2 years ago (edited)

          It is you and sarc who claim one true libertarian status sea lion. Lol. Same with brandy and white cite who claim the MC ruined libertarians.

          Also jeff you dont give opinions on liberty. You take the leftist position then try to rationalize it within the libertarian framework. This is why you'll have contradictory frameworks based on which arguments are being discussed. The one constant is defending the lefts policy.

      3. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

        the belief that they cannot be wrong

        I absolutely know that it's possible for me to be wrong.

        But I'm not going to just take your word for it. I've been on the Internet long enough not to fall for that one.

        You all like to think that YOU can't be wrong, that if you post some nugget from nypost.com or thefederalist.com that we all should just accept it at face value. I am more skeptical than that.

        1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

          "I absolutely know that it’s possible for me to be wrong."

          Well, yeah. It's proven to you daily. If Overt isn't making you look like an idiot, it's Paul or Jesse. That's why you resort to lying 90% of the time.

          "You all like to think that YOU can’t be wrong,"

          Probably because everyone else comes loaded with facts and citations, and all you have are the talking points they emailed you that morning.

          1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

            You talk big and make a lot of claims but demonstrate very little. You love to accuse everyone else of bad faith and lying yet all you do is regurgitate right-wing narratives and emote and virtue-signal to your tribe. You're like RightWingGPT: you use complete sentences and big words but you know very little and are not intelligent.

            1. JesseAz   2 years ago (edited)

              Your lies and illogical arguments are called out all the time in threads dummy. You are given evidence every time. You ignore it or try ad hominem attacks against the source. You refuse honest argumentation. You use post modernist argumentation and refuse to acknowledge base accepted facts.

              Examples:
              Bears in Trunks
              Teachers have domain over kids not parents
              Snow White is the same as child porn
              Pedophilia is harm but cutting off a child's dick is not.
              2+2=5

              And on and on.

              1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

                Let's not forget his best yet on Friday: women's sports is affirmative action.

                1. JesseAz   2 years ago

                  When he claimed there was no difference between men and women at the same weight class?

                  1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

                    Yep, where he tried to claim separating men's and women's was affirmative action yet separating by weight class was not.

            2. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

              *makes a post full of emoting and signaling, writes in it;*

              "all you do is regurgitate right-wing narratives and emote and virtue-signal to your tribe."

              Uhhh...

            3. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

              Someone who's a self-proclaimed "anti-rightist" really has no standing to pretend to not be tribal. Most of your posts clearly come from a place of self-loathing that the only nice place you can live in is full of people whose politics you despise, which is why you're constantly parroting the left-liberal conventional wisdom.

              1. sarcasmic   2 years ago

                Does being anti-left automatically make someone far-right?

                1. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

                  No, but it does make them on the right. Being "anti-left" means being against whatever the left proposes.

              2. sarcasmic   2 years ago

                Progressives call me an ultra-conservative because I think people should be able to keep their own money, and conservatives call me an ultra-progressive because I think people should be able to spend their own money however they want.

                They can't both be correct.

                1. JesseAz   2 years ago (edited)

                  No they don’t. We call you a necon leftist here because you spend all your time criticizing the left even in discussions mildly critical of the left. Throwing shit to defend and deflect. You push for trust in institutions despite clear evidence of political fuckery. You claim libertarians have more in common with the left even after censorship and covid policy. You push every false media narrative against the right. Etc etc.

                  Thats why you’re called a leftist neocon.

                  1. JesseAz   2 years ago

                    Criticizing the right*

              3. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                Someone who’s a self-proclaimed “anti-rightist” really has no standing to pretend to not be tribal.

                Oh fuck you. You interpret my use of the phrase in the way you engage in the tribal wars, not in the way I use the term.

                I don't oppose every right-wing idea. I favor generally smaller government and lower taxes, which is what conservatives (generally) support. What I don't support is the current incarnation of the Team Red tribe. It is all culture war garbage and tribal leader worship.

                Unlike you, who knee-jerk opposes left-wing ideas even to the extent of favoring authoritarian impulses to 'destroy the left'.

                1. JesseAz   2 years ago

                  Words mean what I want them to mean said the caterpillar and Jeff.

                  Sea lion/post modernist bullshit.

                2. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago (edited)

                  Oh fuck you. You interpret my use of the phrase in the way you engage in the tribal wars, not in the way I use the term.

                  Fuck you right back, fat boy. I didn’t “interpret” anything, I used the plain meaning of the term. Not whatever Humpty Dumpty definition of convenience you happen to employ at any given moment.

                  Unlike you, who knee-jerk opposes left-wing ideas even to the extent of favoring authoritarian impulses to ‘destroy the left’.

                  Your complaint about resistance to the left in the culture war is every reason to oppose them. But I will say one nice thing about them–I’m more than happy to use their economic ideas against them.

      4. sarcasmic   2 years ago

        ML, I think all of the ‘libertarian’ left-leaning/progressive types who comment here believe that they are not only smarter, but superior in every way to people who do not share their belief system.

        Anyone who disagrees with you thinks they're better than you.

        My guess is that it’s a combination of stupidity & ignorance, shitty education, the belief that they cannot be wrong, and the continuous affirmation they receive within their in-groups.

        But it's really because you're better than them.

        Talk about projection. Jesus H Christ on a skateboard. Do you have any self awareness at all?

        1. JesseAz   2 years ago

          Irony in written form. You literally had your comments from yesterday posted. Lol.

        2. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

          "Do you have any self awareness at all?"

          Oh wow!

          1. JesseAz   2 years ago

            You aren't muted despite his claims. He always takes what is said about him and starts using those terms.

            1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

              I noticed that. It makes me happy because I know it got him mad.

      5. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        At this point, all the progressive left has is a self-delusional combination of moral superiority and apocalyptic vision. Kinda like what evangelicals have always promoted.

    2. Fats of Fury   2 years ago

      Sarcastrati also treaded on Tony's trademarked crybullying regarding Latinos, black and brown muslims, etc, etc.

    3. Bill Dalasio   2 years ago

      I'm not so sure about sarcasmic. Sometimes he shows up sober and actually makes a salient point or two. Jeffie? I'm guessing somewhere in the 110-115 range, slightly above average, for verbal reasoning and pure 100 for spatial/mathematical. He thinks that makes him Einstein. Jeff isn't stupid. He's just the epitome of a midwit.

      1. sarcasmic   2 years ago

        Do you remember how he spent years saying I ran this handle as well as Squirrely, Mike and others? He did that for years, claiming anytime we agreed with each other was proof that we were the same person.
        One day he thinks he's got a gotcha when he posts a link to a thread where muting 'sarcasmic' muted other posts from other handles. Thing is, it didn't mute me. So he had proof that I was telling the truth when I said I was being impersonated, rather than being the impersonator.
        What did he do? Did he apologize for being a dick for years? Did he tell others that he was wrong? Did he behave remotely like a man?
        Of course not. He memory holed the thread and doubled-down on me running socks.
        In short, he's a cunt. A piece of shit. The most despicable excuse for a human in these comments.

        1. sarcasmic   2 years ago

          By "he" I don't mean jeff.

          1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago (edited)

            Of course not. He memory holed the thread and doubled-down on me running socks.

            I think Sarckles is trying to say “ghosted” instead of “memory-holed”.

            Anyways, as usual, the little retard is lying. He demanded citations and I posted them. He then ghosted the thread. The next day I posted those links under every post he made, and every time I did he’d ghost that thread. The day after that he proclaimed he was muting me because he hadn’t received the cites. Again I posted them under his proclamation.

            I think most people here remember this.

            That’s what booze does to you, folks.

      2. JesseAz   2 years ago

        Jeff is a post modernist with subjective argument training. That is all. He doesn't believe in objective reality.

      3. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        Dunning, meet Kruger.

    4. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

      Hilarious. This started when I called out ML for not presenting rational or logical arguments, instead just reaching into a grab bag of logical fallacies, and emoting and virtue-signaling HOW DARE YOU all the time when it comes to responding to the arguments of others. You are the right-wing equivalent of the progressive who goes on Twitter and just calls everyone a racist. Instead you just call everyone a fascist, Nazi, "anti-human ogre", or whatever other phrase that your AI comes up with.

      You aren't that smart. My hypothesis is, you grew up in a conservative environment and have lived your life surrounded in a conservative bubble. You have never really had to challenge your own conservative arguments in a rigorously intellectual way. You know your arguments are weak, but you will never admit that publicly, and so that is why you resort to fallacies and emotion when trying to refute challenges to your arguments, because that is all you have.

      1. Bill Dalasio   2 years ago

        As I said, the epitome of a midwit.

        1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

          That pretty much defines Inceljeff Retarded Misogynist to a T.

      2. Ersatz   2 years ago

        there are no conservative bubbles in canada - just watered down conservative enclaves that dont even encompass a complete province

      3. sarcasmic   2 years ago

        You aren’t that smart.

        I'm trying and failing to remember one instance where he talked about ideas or events instead of people before I permanently muted his retarded ass.

        1. JesseAz   2 years ago

          He does it all the time. The majority of his posts hypocrite. You on the other hand....

        2. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

          I used to consider Jeffy to be a bigger pussy than you, until your raging drunk ass had occasion to threaten me. Then hide like a bitch the moment you sobered up.

          Go crawl under your rock, pussy.

        3. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

          He can't continue a logical argument without inevitably devolving into a blob of emotional outrage followed by logical fallacies and misdirection.

          When is the last time he ever answered even one of my questions directly or honestly? He doesn't. He dodges and misdirects and calls people names.

          1. JesseAz   2 years ago

            Your entire argumentation structure is a logical fallacy masked in a rhetorical argument.

          2. sarcasmic   2 years ago

            Yup. That's why he's on permamute. He's a pig, and when you wrestle with pigs you just get dirty while the pig enjoys it. Don't give him the enjoyment. Mute the fucker. Nothing drives a troll crazy more than being ignored.

            1. JesseAz   2 years ago (edited)

              sarcasmic 2 years ago Flag Comment Mute User I pointed out that not every slight is an ad hominem. In fact that has a very specific definition. Showed him up. He go so embarrassed that he muted me.

              Poor sarc. Remember how much you cried when Ken muted you.

              1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago (edited)

                I do.

                And when Chumby had had enough of sarcasmic’s shit and muted him, he blamed Ken for it.

                sarcasmic
                November.2.2021 at 10:19 am
                Chumby does. Pretty sure he's a Mainer. But he's got me on mute. You know, virtue signaling to Ken. Can't listen to someone who takes people's words to their logical conclusion. Only a progressive would do that, right?

                https://reason.com/2021/11/02/joe-biden-presses-ahead-with-vaccine-mandates-inviting-legal-challenges/?comments=true#comment-9188144

          3. Bill Dalasio   2 years ago

            Except this very post is doing the exact same thing. It's nothing more than name calling combined with effete whining.

            1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

              Yes, IN THIS DISCUSSION, I'm calling ML names and calling him out.

              Problem is, ML does it ALL THE TIME.

              1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

                You mean when I say you're evil for supporting child genital mutilation and sexualization?

                That's an indisputable statement of fact. One can be a cold, calculating rationalist and still recognize that you're evil.

              2. sarcasmic   2 years ago (edited)

                Problem is, ML does it ALL THE TIME.

                Yep. He can't converse without making comments that contain the word “you” because his feeble brain can’t do ideas or events, just people.

                1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

                  Self awareness isn't a Sarcasmic superpower.

              3. JesseAz   2 years ago

                You did it yesterday as well and many many other times.

                Stop lying.

      4. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

        Here Jeffy strongly telegraphs his hatred of conservatives. As he is a a staunch leftist. He’s just fuming because he was (again) shown to be a grooming advocate. Even using NAMBLA arguments to advance pedophile efforts to gain access to young children for abuse and mutilation.

        Jeffy isn’t that smart. My guess is that he was a pretentious, weak, fat, annoying pseudo intellectual child that nobody liked. Likely with no masculine influence. Who grew up increasingly isolated. Eventually with the internet as his only friend. Certainly no one can stand being in his presence for more than a few minutes due to his excruciating sea lioning, and overarching dishonesty.

        Jeffy, fat, stupid, pedophilic and Marxist is no way to go through life.

        1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

          Inceljeffy is also quite the misogynist as we found out on Friday. He seems to hate women with a passion.

        2. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

          Here Jeffy strongly telegraphs his hatred of conservatives.

          I'm not a fan of Team Red, that is true.

          As he is a a staunch leftist.

          No, I just don't like Team Red. I don't like Team Blue either.

          Team Blue has a few good ideas but a lot of bad ideas. But at least their conversations tend to be on the level of ideas.

          Team Red is not even typically talking about ideas. It is culture war bullshit and tribal nonsense. That student loan reform bill that they introduced a little while ago in the House was an *EXCEPTION* to the usual daily Team Red programming of 'stoke outrage/worship Dear Leader/project paranoia'.

          1. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

            Team Red is not even typically talking about ideas. It is culture war bullshit and tribal nonsense.

            The culture war is the best war to fight, and there's no validity to your "tribal nonsense" claim when you are a self-proclaimed "anti-rightist."

            1. JesseAz   2 years ago

              Jeff can't grasp the concept.

              He shows his clear biases here. Dismisses the right as having no valid ideas. Calls anyone who disagrees with that already red... then claims he has no team.

          2. JesseAz   2 years ago

            Odd. You call everyone who hates team blue a conservative or cultist. Using the logic if they hate the left they must be conservative. Despite them criticizing the GOP (especially the GOPe) more than you've ever criticized the left.

      5. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

        "My hypothesis is, you grew up in a conservative environment and have lived your life surrounded in a conservative bubble."

        Yes, British Columbia is a hotbed of conservatism.

        The weird thing is that on any political compass quiz I come out as centre-left libertarian. Whereas you, the establishment left and the Democrats have moved towards an authoritarian fascist neo-aristocracy over the last twenty years.
        That's why actual libertarian leftists like Bret Weinstein, Bari Weiss, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Sam Harris, Heather Heying, Claire Lehmann, Douglas Murray, Maajid Nawaz, Steven Pinker, Dave Rubin, Michael Shermer, Christina Hoff Sommers, Glenn Greenwald, Tim Robbins, Bill Maher, Eric Weinstein, Lee Fang, Michael Shellenberger, David Zweig and Seymour Hersh say the things I've been saying, while you parrot the Bushies and neocons.

        1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

          This is utter bullshit. You are just name-dropping people that you have heard about online as the 'cool people' in your tribe that you are supposed to support as a loyal tribal member. That list of people have very diverse views and often contradictory views, there is no way you have views that are compatible with all of these people. I doubt you could hold an intelligent conversation for 10 minutes on any meaningful topic that any of those people discuss.

          You're a nothing. You're a yapping poodle following along with the tribe and trying to fit in by parroting the views and beliefs that you think you are supposed to. You aren't an original thinker, your views are based in emotion and you search for reason to try to rationalize your emotional responses. You're garbage.

          1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

            Rarely do I see a comment with as much projection as I do with Inceljeffy's above. Inceljeffy does exactly this, "parroting the views and beliefs that you think you are supposed to". He does very wordy comments that can be summarized quickly due to his own views "based in emotion and you search for reason to try to rationalize your emotional responses".

            So what pissed you off so much, Inceljeffy? How much anger do you have there?

            1. sarcasmic   2 years ago

              The trolls are rubbing off on you. Or rubbing you off. I can't tell.

          2. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

            First:
            "utter bullshit... name-dropping... ‘cool people’ in your tribe... loyal tribal member... I doubt you could hold an intelligent conversation for 10 minutes... You’re a nothing... You’re a yapping poodle... trying to fit in... parroting the views... You’re garbage."

            But then:
            "your views are based in emotion and you search for reason to try to rationalize your emotional responses."

            When Lying Jeffy gets mad enough he discredits himself for me.

          3. sarcasmic   2 years ago

            I doubt you could hold an intelligent conversation for 10 minutes on any meaningful topic that any of those people discuss.

            I'd give him two minutes before his responses contained the word "you."

            1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

              You.

    5. Demosthenes of Athens   2 years ago

      Sarc has a Marlin Model 60, so he's cool in my book.

      Jeff on the other hand, I could do without.

      1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

        Sarc might have been lying.

        sarcasmic
        November.19.2021 at 1:45 pm
        I don't carry a gun. I'm not a great shot and I lack training. Doing so would be inviting trouble that I don't know how to handle.

        https://reason.com/2021/11/19/kyle-rittenhouse-has-been-acquitted-on-all-charges/?comments=true#comment-9219393

    6. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

      Of course, that was after Sarc white knighted everyone's favorite pedo.

    7. JesseAz   2 years ago

      Tony and Raspberry are still the dumbest. Then jeff. Then sarc. Although shrike is trying hard to squeeze into the bottom 4.

      1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

        Shrike performs so badly, he can't even be the dumbest here. That's how bad he fails.

      2. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

        Tony can show Shreek how to bottom. He teaches a masterclass on the subject.

      3. EISTAU Gree-Vance   2 years ago

        Tony’s not dumb. He’s angry, hateful, scared and miserable. Toxic.

    8. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

      An online IQ test? Those are unfailingly accurate…….

    9. JesseAz   2 years ago

      I think sarc and jeff lost the poll.

  13. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

    Squeezing the working class.

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/06/26/the-classist-lunacy-of-net-zero/

    So even one of Just Stop Oil’s wealthy donors is tiring of its classist stunts. Trevor Neilson, a co-founder of the Climate Emergency Fund, which has pumped money into Just Stop Oil, says the eco-irritants’ funereal, road-blocking marches for Mother Earth increasingly come off as ‘disruption for the sake of disruption’. You have ‘working people that are trying to get to their job, get their kid dropped off at school [and] survive a brutal cost-of-living crisis’, he says, and then along comes a ‘pink-haired, tattooed and pierced protester standing in front of their car’. It pisses people off, he said.

    It feels like the working classes are caught in a pincer movement. On one side, upper-class fanatics punish them on the streets by blocking their journeys by car; on the other, officialdom punishes them with green energy levies and green fuel taxes and ‘15-minute cities’ and all the rest of it. Sunak is set to reintroduce the green levy on energy bills, which will add up to £170 a year: your penance for daring to benefit from the energy unleashed from earthly fossils. London mayor Sadiq Khan forges ahead with ULEZ – his Ultra Low Emission Zone – which will force Londoners to stump up £12.50 a day for the eco-crime of driving. At least JSO brats only hold motorists up for a few hours – Khan deploys the weapon of severe economic pressure to make motorists think twice about driving at all.

    Net Zero is best seen as the policy expression of the self-loathing of the elites, of late capitalism’s turn against itself. The neo-aristocratic disdain for the gains and wonders of industrial society might enlarge the sense of virtue of those who rule us, who get to pose as saviours of the planet, but it violently shrinks the prospects of working people and the global poor. Alongside the valiant scaffolders ejecting eco-zealots from the roads, we need more people willing to demand the ejection of Net Zero in its entirety from government policymaking. Growth and freedom are what will deliver us from the current crisis, not fear, hysteria and cruel reversals in the fortunes of working people.

    1. A Cynical Asshole   2 years ago

      You have ‘working people that are trying to get to their job, get their kid dropped off at school [and] survive a brutal cost-of-living crisis’, he says, and then along comes a ‘pink-haired, tattooed and pierced protester standing in front of their car’. It pisses people off, he said.

      It took him until now to figure that out?

    2. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   2 years ago

      Squeezing the working class.

      MAGA Workers of the World to unite behind Fatass Donnie - seize the means of production from the liberal elite bourgeoisie Party of Davos.

      1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

        Funny you mention that as the union hierarchy supports the Democrats.

        1. Sevo   2 years ago

          Well, turd does lie. It's what turd does.

      2. Sevo   2 years ago

        turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
        turd lies. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.

  14. Sandra (formerly OBL)   2 years ago

    "So…what the heck was this? No one is entirely sure. But the situation in Russia and Ukraine has returned, more or less, to the regrettable status quo."

    I learned a few weeks into this war, when some geniuses were telling me Russia's entire military was on the verge of collapse, to be skeptical of breathless Putin-is-finished narratives.

    1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

      "I learned a few weeks into this war... to be skeptical"

      That sounds like traitor talk. You must be a MAGA Commie.

      1. Sandra (formerly OBL)   2 years ago

        Alright, my skepticism may have already kicked into high gear before the Russia - Ukraine War. Years of bombshell tipping point walls closing in beginning of the end idiocy will do that.

        #AllRoadsLeadToPutin

    2. creech   2 years ago

      "breathless Putin-is-finished narratives."
      Have we moved on from the 2016 "Hillary is dying of some incurable disease" narrative?

      1. Spiritus Mundi   2 years ago

        That was more hope than narrative.

      2. R Mac   2 years ago

        She does appear somewhat bot-ish since she lost.

      3. Fats of Fury   2 years ago

        They keep throwing her down, Satan keeps throwing her back.

    3. I, Woodchipper   2 years ago

      I cant even imagine how credulous and empty-headed one must be to just believe these "coup" headlines at face value and not even wonder if MAYBE this is a psyop

    4. Ajsloss   2 years ago

      "I learned a few weeks into this war, when some geniuses were telling me Russia’s entire military was on the verge of collapse, to be skeptical of breathless Putin-is-finished narratives."

      So... the walls aren't closing in?

  15. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

    No wonder Jeff is suddenly feeling smart.

    Researchers: ‘Queering nuclear weapons’ can strengthen national security

    "According to the Vienna Center for Disarmament and Non-Proliferation’s Louis Reitmann and Sneha Nair of the Stimson Center, “governments cannot afford to lose out on the human capital and innovation potential of queer people” when discussing the “high stakes” topic of nukes."

    1. A Cynical Asshole   2 years ago

      The fuck?

    2. A Thinking Mind   2 years ago

      What's even the point of having a nuclear arsenal if it isn't fabulous?

      1. Derp-o-Matic 6000   2 years ago

        We need more rainbow dildo-shaped missiles

    3. Fats of Fury   2 years ago

      They tried queering up nuclear waste but he kept stealing women's luggage.

      1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

        And then dressed up the nukes in the clothing.

  16. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

    And you thought Fahrenheit 451 was just a book.

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/06/25/collecting-old-books-is-now-a-radical-act/

    Our literary past is under assault. Trigger warnings are being slapped on reissued classics. Long-dead writers are being called out for offending contemporary sensibilities. And sensitivity readers are relentlessly filleting books of anything that upsets their identitarian worldview.

    There is something especially disturbing about the rewriting of literature, be it classic, popular or otherwise. Doing so alters the record of experience, it adjusts the collective memory. It is, in short, deranging. A set of dubious values, built on the shifting sands of identity politics, is being allowed to eat away at our shared understanding of time and tradition.

    These days, collecting is no longer the hobby it used to be. It is, instead, something of a public duty. In adding to my library, I am doing my bit to conserve the culture. That is no exaggeration. Thanks to trigger warnings, sensitivity readers, edits, inoffensive re-issues, electronic versions and clean-ups, sooner or later, the most important examples of pre-21st-century British literature will be adulterated beyond the point of recognition.

    Buying old books is now a political act. And your personal library (even if it only runs to a couple of shelves) is no longer meaningless beyond your front door. If publishers and institutions want to distort our past, by bending its stories to fit this morning’s trendy narrative, then we should be angry enough to set it straight again. And home is the best place to do so.

    One word of advice, though. Look for an alternative place to store your books, should the need arise. Who knows? In three years’ time the sensitivity police may well be empowered to enter your house and audit the content of your shelves. No kidding.

    Just wait till they send out the firemen.

    1. Minadin   2 years ago

      I propose that we host a worldwide conference for professional sensitivity readers, in an aging stadium, on demolition day.

      1. Dogvalor   2 years ago

        A boat would be more efficient. We can call it Nordstream 3 and pretend the Russians did it.

  17. The Margrave of Azilia   2 years ago

    It ain't over until the fat lady sings.

    Or do I have the wrong Wagner?

    1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

      Isn't that Lizzo?

    2. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

      You got me curious. Turns out Wagner Group may well be named after that Wagner:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group

      In 2021, the Foreign Policy report noted the origin of the name "Wagner" to be unknown.[57] Others say the group's name comes from Utkin's own call sign "Wagner", reportedly after the German composer Richard Wagner, which Utkin is said to have chosen due to his passion for the Third Reich (Wagner being Adolf Hitler's favorite composer).[79][80] As such, some believe he is a neo-Nazi,[81][82] with The Economist reporting that Utkin has several Nazi tattoos.[80] Members of Wagner Group say Utkin is a Rodnover, a believer of Slavic native faith.[83] Radio Liberty cited insiders as saying that the leadership of the Wagner Group are followers of the Slavic Native Faith, a modern Pagan new religious movement.[13]

      1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

        Can't believe it took you all weekend and part of Monday to figure that out.

        1. R Mac   2 years ago

          I can.

        2. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

          And I just assumed they were mercenaries who are huge fans of Kurt Wagner, aka Nightcrawler of the X-Men.

  18. Illocust   2 years ago

    Sounds like some mercenaries took gullible idiots for a ride and made 6 billion doing it.

    1. Ronbback   2 years ago

      typical of our CIA to back con men who took the money and made a fake coup then went back to war

  19. Ra's al Gore   2 years ago

    The left is raising a generation of idiots because only idiots would agree with them.

    https://www.thefp.com/p/personal-tweets-lose-high-school-debates

    Adelstein told me that, in April 2022, he competed at the prestigious Tournament of Champions in Lexington, Kentucky, where he debated in favor of the federal government increasing its protection of water resources.

    In his final round of the two-day tournament, Matthew was shocked to hear the opposing team levy a personal attack against him as their central argument. The opposing team argued: “This debate is more than just about the debate—it’s about protecting the individuals in the community from people who proliferate hatred and make this community unsafe.”

    Then they pulled up a screenshot of a tweet from earlier that month, which Matthew had responded to.

    … In his written decision, Judge Jacob Wilkus explained his reasoning for giving Matthew’s opponents the win. “A debate space where racist or violent people are not allowed is preferable to one where they are,” he wrote, adding that “the ballot has a transformative power to challenge white debate norms where it is okay to just let racist or violent activity slide.”

    1. Illocust   2 years ago

      Wow, that's really really bad.

    2. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

      "John Hollihan, debate coach at Pittsburgh Central Catholic High School, judged three rounds at NSDA nationals. His paradigm tells students that “I am EXTREMELY skeptical of ‘capitalism good’ arguments. If you go for them, you better do a lot of analysis to convince me.”

      Chaz Wyche, who judged the final round of middle school policy debate, states in his paradigm that “I reserve the right to end the debate due to anti-blackness.”

      Chemjeff territory.

      1. A Thinking Mind   2 years ago (edited)

        And we continue to see young people skewing further left.

      2. Nazi-Chipping Warlock   2 years ago

        These idiots need shooting before their corruption can spread further.

    3. A Cynical Asshole   2 years ago

      It won't be long until "Fuck you" becomes an acceptable winning argument in debates.

      1. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

        The opposing team argued: “This debate is more than just about the debate... without being disqualified.

        I would argue that fuck you is already a winner.

      2. Fats of Fury   2 years ago

        Here's how to win a debate.
        https://youtu.be/fmO-ziHU_D8?t=29
        1. Be black

      3. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        The proper argument is "Fuck you, you racist!"

    4. Hank Ferrous   2 years ago

      I think the concepts here were hijack, then ad hominem -sadly, the tactics were effective. One wonders if the team who initiated this horseshit was 'losing' prior to this.

    5. Ersatz   2 years ago

      if allowed to be debated properly the result was still correct

      where he debated in favor of the federal government increasing its protection of water resources.

    6. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

      So the judges had an ad hominem attack, completely irrelevant to the debate topic and being the main argument, win? The judges not only allowed a bad argument to prevail, they praised the argument for its being a bad argument.

      This would be similar to a hockey player carrying the puck in his glove into the offensive zone and throwing it into the net and the referee and the replay booth judging the goal good, and then having it praised as a brilliant play.

      The NSDA has been captured by far left ideologues which have made it into a worthless
      and corrupt institution.

    7. Zeb   2 years ago

      That's fucked up. I thought the whole point of competitive debate was to judge the ability to make arguments, even if the debaters might not agree with the position they take in the debate.

      1. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

        An ad hominem attack should have been disqualifying. The judge is a fucking idiot.

        the ballot has a transformative power to challenge white debate norms

        Confirmed.

      2. SRG   2 years ago

        That is indeed entirely fucked-up and intellectually dishonest.

      3. BYODB   2 years ago

        I remember my time in high school debate even though it was forever ago.

        The 'judges' for most rounds are just some rando idiot they pulled off the street with no idea how to even judge a debate anyway, so this should come as no surprise.

        The only shocking thing is that they're being open about how incompetent they've always been.

    8. JesseAz   2 years ago

      Shocked. This is the same argumentation sarc tried yesterday calling all racists conservative.

      1. SRG   2 years ago

        ...which is indeed flatly untrue.

        1. JesseAz   2 years ago

          You going to try pushing the Southern Strategy talking point again?

          1. SRG   2 years ago

            Fuckwit, I said it is flatly untrue as a response to "all racists are conservative". So what the fuck are you talking about?

    9. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

      Here is the tweet that was attacked:

      “Name one thing that you, personally, feel is morally disgusting, but that you think, rationally, should be legal and accepted by society.” Matthew had replied: “Calling people racial or homophobic slurs.”

      The kid took a stance perfectly in line with the 1st amendment and it somehow cost him in a debate on a completely unrelated topic. This is disgusting.

    10. R Mac   2 years ago

      We’re so fucked.

    11. SRG   2 years ago

      Thanks. I opened up the link to Fishback's "incubatedebate.org" and applied to judge a HS debate.

      As I wrote in my application:

      I read this at 15. I am now 66. I am more convinced than ever of its truth and importance:

      “The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error.” JS Mill, Essay on Liberty

      I suggest if anyone else here is outraged, they too go to the site and support, or offer to judge, etc.

      1. Cyto   2 years ago

        My local school system is heavily into debate. I Volunteer at all levels to judge (they are always short of judges). It is a great experience for the kids.

        Two observations:

        1. The people at the top are hard left. Rainbow pins and slogans are ubiquitous among the organizers. These would be the people who end up judging national competitions, so this story is no surprise from that point of view.

        2. The debate formats are "here is a topic" and the students research the topic. Pro and Con sides are determined at the start of the debate and teams have like 2 minutes to prepare after that.

        So judging based on what your opinion is on the issue is idiotic. The students opinions on the issue are not even relevant. The point is being able to craft an argument on either side.

        Bonus observation: judging at the elementary level is completely arbitrary and unfair. Judging at the middle school and beyond level is better... but still not really fair because of a lack of judges. So only 1 person judges each debate... which nobody else sees. They then tally up all of the results and give awards based on totals... meaning that if you randomly get 2 generous judges and 2 weak opponents for your two rounds, you will win. And if you get a bad judge for even one round, you will not win.

        I have been pushing for a "finals" round to be performed in front of the entire debate meet - about 500 people at most events in our district.

        I am not making a lot of headway on that one ... the teachers already donate enough time and they just want to go home.

    12. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      I can't wait for these snowflakes to start complaining when they die at the hands of diversity airline pilots and brain surgeons.

  20. Ra's al Gore   2 years ago

    Does It Hurt Children to Measure Pandemic Learning Loss?
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/08/us/school-testing-education-covid.html

    1. I, Woodchipper   2 years ago

      does it hurt dummies to measure IQ?

      1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

        No idea. Ask Inceljeff and Shrike.

        1. JesseAz   2 years ago

          135 IQ online test!

    2. Derp-o-Matic 6000   2 years ago

      "Better to not get an objective number on how badly our authoritarian policies fucked up." /NYT

    3. Dillinger   2 years ago

      >>Does It Hurt Children to Measure Pandemic Learning Loss?

      yes. is why they do it.

  21. Ra's al Gore   2 years ago

    EU set to approve the use of spyware to uncover confidential journalist sources 'in the name of national security'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12221155/EU-set-approve-use-spyware-uncover-confidential-journalist-sources.html

    1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

      Imagine how insane these headlines would've sounded 25 years ago, and now they barely elicit a shrug.

      1. Cyto   2 years ago

        This is what really gives me pause.

        I always wondered how things like Nazi Germany or lynching could happen... it just seemed like you needed a special level of evil people. Now I see that the crowd can turn on a dime and group dynamics can lead people to believe absolutely anything.... with great passion.

        Even so, watching the exact same people who chanted "no blood for oil" at Bush and who were proudly anti-war transform into neocon warmongers in just a few years has been stunning.

        And seeing the ardent defenders of civil liberties - and principly free speech - suddenly decide that free speech is violence has been surreal. ACLU, we are looking at you.

        1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

          No, you never needed a special level or class or people. Unfortunately, the average crowd of humans can be as dumb as a box of rocks, and they'll follow anything like sheep. The Salem Witch Trials happened in much the same way. Average, ordinary people followed their leaders and then accused specific people of witchcraft.

          That's what's so fucking scary about how these things happen. The average person will follow like a sheep and right over the cliff like a lemming. Sentient beings, my ass.

        2. Fats of Fury   2 years ago

          "The banality of evil" is meant for people like this.

        3. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

          See "Stanford experiment".

  22. Ra's al Gore   2 years ago

    Stay 15 minutes from home in your ghetto at all times, peasants.

    The Case Against Travel
    It turns us into the worst version of ourselves while convincing us that we’re at our best.
    https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-weekend-essay/the-case-against-travel

    1. I, Woodchipper   2 years ago

      without even looking i am sure this is written by a white female who has done a lot of travel

    2. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

      What a waste of newsprint (or bandwidth) she wrote. I'll bet this lady has never even stepped foot outside New York City.

    3. Minadin   2 years ago

      She argues that Immanuel Kant is one of the greatest philosophers of all time?

      also:

      "Back home in Iowa, they gush about the experience to an ethnologist friend: . . . "

      Well, it's pretty clear she hasn't traveled to Iowa. Does anyone in the Midwest / Plains actually know an 'ethnologist'?

      1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago (edited)

        Maybe in Iowa City (U of Iowa) or Ames (Iowa State), but elsewhere in the state? I’ll wager not. And that’s a maybe, if they’re attached to the U., and actually know the person there.

        It’s amazing what tiny bubbles these folks who write in these New York-centric publications live in. It's like they have no concept of how people outside their bubble and west of the Hudson River actually live.

        1. Minadin   2 years ago

          I've been to Iowa City, we have an office there.

          Not even there, though:

          https://iro.uiowa.edu/esploro/search/researchers?query=ethnologist&page=1&institution=01IOWA_INST&scope=all

      2. Dillinger   2 years ago

        lived in Newton twice & I have no idea what an ethnologist is

      3. Fats of Fury   2 years ago

        Maybe she means any old POC.

  23. Bubba Jones   2 years ago

    > A federal appeals court says that running a state-legal marijuana dispensary can be grounds for having an application for U.S. citizenship denied.

    Is it because marijuana remains illegal under federal law?

    What do I win?

  24. Ra's al Gore   2 years ago

    Die, are suicided by the state, hey the ruling class needs organs.

    Avery's Law makes organ, tissue donation automatic in New Brunswick — with some exceptions
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/new-brunswick-organ-donation-presumed-consent-avery-s-law-1.6881139

    1. Cronut   2 years ago

      "The chief coroner may allow the removal of organs or tissue of a person 'notwithstanding that death has not yet occurred if … in the opinion of a physician the death of the person is imminent by reason of injury or disease.'"

      You don't even have to be all the way dead. Just mostly dead.

      1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

        Well, that would put a wrinkle in a part of The Princess Bride. Sure, Wesley can be revived, but he's missing a kidney and a liver.

  25. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

    Watch what you say, even in a high school debate.

    https://www.thefp.com/p/personal-tweets-lose-high-school-debates

    Once upon a time, the National Speech & Debate Association, or NSDA, was the country’s premier debating organization, touching the lives of two million high school students across its nearly hundred-year history. Its famous alumni include Oprah Winfrey, and Supreme Court justices Neil Gorsuch and Ketanji Brown Jackson. The NSDA, formerly known as the National Forensics League, currently has 140,000 young debaters on its roster—but now, rather than teaching them to debate, it is teaching them to self-censor and conform their arguments to a new politically correct standard.

    The NSDA has allowed hundreds of judges with explicit left-wing bias to infiltrate the organization. These judges proudly display their ideological leanings in statements—or “paradigms”—on a public database maintained by the NSDA called Tabroom, where they declare that debaters who argue in favor of capitalism, or Israel, or the police, will lose the rounds they’re judging.

    Steve DuBois, a high school teacher in Lenexa, Kansas, who has been an NSDA coach for 27 years, said he has noticed that a majority of high school debates now occur “within fairly narrow ideological parameters.”

    “There’s the moderate left, there’s the far left, and that’s essentially the range in which debates occur,” DuBois told me. Students, he said, “are told that there are certain things that you shouldn’t say in debate rounds because they create an unwelcoming environment for people in the community.”

    “At NSDA tournaments I am not guaranteed a win based on my reasoning, facts, or delivery, rather if I can reinforce my judges’ ideology throughout the debate,” Whatley told me. “It’s antithetical to what true open debate is.”

    1. BYODB   2 years ago

      This has been true for at least the past 30 years, it just wasn't as explicit as it is now and there was perhaps a bit less of a consistent bias.

      It's expected since they'll have the gym coach judge a debate who literally has no idea what debate is.

  26. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

    Congress needs to do its job.

    https://nypost.com/2023/06/25/congress-needs-to-retake-control-of-federal-regs-return-power-to-the-people/

    Who should rule the American people? The Democrats, despite their name, have all but answered, “unelected and unaccountable bureaucrats.”

    Republicans, by contrast, are rallying around the radical idea that Americans should rule ourselves.

    This became clear Wednesday, when GOPers in the House passed the Regulations from the Executive in Need of Scrutiny Act, which would require that Congress approve or reject every major regulation, defined as costing $100 million or more a year, advanced by executive agencies.

    In his Twitter event announcing his candidacy, Gov. Ron DeSantis declared he would sign the REINS Act.

    He also co-sponsored the bill while in the House, as did Vice President Mike Pence and Sen. Tim Scott.

    Donald Trump vowed in 2016 to sign the REINS Act if it came to his desk.

    Our country’s constitutional system is premised on the idea that Congress writes the laws and the American people exercise ultimate control by voting out politicians who don’t do what we want.

    The current situation reverses the situation: Congress doesn’t write the laws and the American people have no control over the people who do.

    The Biden administration is undermining democracy more than any other in history.

    It has already imposed 50% more regulatory costs in its first two years than the Obama administration at the same point — quite a feat, since the Obama years were themselves record-breaking — with much more overregulation on the way.

    At this rate, virtually all government business will soon be done by unelected bureaucrats, not by the officials we elect every two years like clockwork.

    To be sure, both Democrats and Republicans helped break the system. Congress has spent more than 50 years passing laws without details, commanding bureaucrats to fill them in.

    The REINS Act would begin to right this wrong. If Congress won’t write policies, it should be forced to give a green light or raise a red flag before a government mandate comes down.

    1. Dillinger   2 years ago

      >>Congress needs to do its job.

      likely more than four of them know what their fucking job is?

    2. BYODB   2 years ago

      I'm sure Congress will get right on that...since they're the one's that would be making themselves work. How do you think they managed to offload their entire job onto staffers and alphabet agencies in the first place?

      If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.

    3. ducksalad   2 years ago (edited)

      So, great idea in principle but if it passed, isn’t the part about a joint resolution going to get struck down on some kind of separation of powers argument?

      It would be cleaner constitutionally just to just flat prohibit agency-originated rules or regulations that cost more than $100M. If an agency needs to do something larger than that they’re free to suggest to Congress that it pass it as a regular bill.

      1. Zeb   2 years ago

        Just do that for all rules and regulations. And I don't really see a separation of powers argument there. Congress could remove all of that rule making power from the executive agencies if they chose to. So I see no reason they can't limit it in other ways unless it relates to a power explicitly given to the executive in the constitution.

        1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

          Either that or challenge and overturn Wickard.

        2. ducksalad   2 years ago (edited)

          Of course I agree with you completely on first principles about the separation of powers. But based on how the War Powers Act and other emergency powers with after-the-fact congressional limits have been treated by the executive branch, and how they’ve gotten away with it, I don’t see this attempt doing any better.

          OTOH, either totally stripping agencies of rule-making authority, or banning regulations that cost more than $X, seems to be well within accepted powers. A side benefit is that it would give citizens standing to challenge regulations on the grounds that they cost more than $X.

  27. Nardz   2 years ago

    https://twitter.com/WallStreetSilv/status/1673311738706444291?t=q-eK33B8SkOpL_H_iJdI4g&s=19

    Corporate legacy media is going all-out to convince us to be happy with reduced standard of living and future expectations

    Meanwhile central banks keep destroying your buying power.

    [Link]

  28. Nardz   2 years ago

    https://twitter.com/upstatefederlst/status/1673332413164822531?t=OGbXTHIjFHVPvHCOxQiShQ&s=19

    It's our moral duty to rescue refugees so their children can fantasize about our extermination.

    [Link]

  29. Nardz   2 years ago

    Great job, Massie.
    Fn dickless stooge.

    https://twitter.com/AdamSchiff/status/1672355399251681280?t=zHgLDkJDOjhXNnFsehRqIQ&s=19

    MAGA Republicans officially censured me — one step below expulsion — because I upheld my oath of office and held Trump accountable for his many abuses of power.

    Can I count on you to have my back and chip in today?

    [Video]

    1. A Thinking Mind   2 years ago

      He’s a fucking liar, but is banking on the fact that he was lying about a thoroughly disliked figure so most people absolutely won’t care.

      1. Nardz   2 years ago

        He's not the only one

    2. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   2 years ago

      Schiff is one of the last truth-tellers in Congress as he stood up to the MAGA Swamp and called out Fatass Donnie's Russian collusion starting in the Trump Tower on June 9, 2016 culminating in Helsinki where Fatass French-Kissed Vlad then shit on US intelligence in favor of the Kremlin.

      1. Ajsloss   2 years ago

        "Schiff is one of the last truth-tellers in Congress"

        Hahaha. You probably have to go back to the Continental Congress to find a "truth teller"... and those guys owned slaves, so...

      2. Sevo   2 years ago

        turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
        If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
        turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

        1. raspberrydinners   2 years ago

          Oh look at king snowflake, back for more.

          How's fantasy camp treating you these days?

          1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

            How interesting that shitberrydinners shows up defending Shrike. Samefagging your posts again?

          2. Sevo   2 years ago

            "Oh look at king snowflake, back for more..."

            Fuck off and die, TDS-addled steaming pile of shit.

      3. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago (edited)

        BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!

        Thanks for the laugh of the day, Shrike. Schiff is one of the most dishonest and disingenuous members of Congress, and should be removed from Congress ASAP. Of course, knowing how dishonest and disingenuous you are, it’s small wonder you like him.

        1. raspberrydinners   2 years ago

          Troll is right at least.

          1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

            So who are you socking for, Shrike or Tony, shitberrydinners?

        2. Sevo   2 years ago

          Remember: turd lies.

        3. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   2 years ago

          Tell me what Schiff lied about? I can post many links to Russian/Trump meetings and cooperation in defeating Hil-Dog.

          1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

            Where shall we begin, Turd?

            https://www.kabc.com/2022/07/21/the-many-lies-of-adam-schiff/

            Speaking of conspiracy theories, Adam Schiff is the man who said in March 2017 that he had personally seen “more than circumstantial evidence” that President Trump and his team had colluded with Russians to influence the 2016 election.

            That was a lie, but as chairman of the secrecy-shrouded House Intelligence Committee, Schiff was able to continue to repeat this lie for years, intentionally misleading Americans about the then-president of the United States.

            Now that special counsel John Durham has shown that the Russian collusion story was an utterly fictional creation by agents of the Hillary Clinton campaign—who acted through a law firm so their work would be hidden by the secrecy of attorney-client privilege—Schiff has pivoted to claiming he has seen evidence that former President Trump is guilty of crimes in connection with January 6.

            I've got more.

            1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

              https://kfoxtv.com/news/armstrong-army-strong/adam-schiffs-day-of-reckoning

              Stoney-eyed Schiff made a name for himself during Trump's presidency by positioning himself as the public mouthpiece for the intelligence community regarding the unfounded Russia gate conspiracy theory about then-President Donald Trump. Schiff's lies ranged from negligent to outright fabrications of the truth, seemingly going before the public daily to announce that new damning evidence had been uncovered which would, once and for all, put Trump behind bars.

              Of course, as we discovered following the Mueller investigation and more recently, the Durham investigation, not only was Adam Schiff completely wrong in his assessment, but the way he arrived at his conclusions officially crossed the line between serving the public and serving oneself.

              For example, in late 2019, he stated plainly that there was "ample evidence of collusion in plain sight." Similarly, in 2019, he claimed possession of a "smoking gun" which apparently never existed. Despite all his assertions of clear cut evidence of collusion, when pressed after years to release transcripts of interviews conducted by the House Intelligence Committee into Russiagate — the same interviews in which he allegedly found direct evidence of collusion — it turned out that prominent figures like the Director of National Intelligence and the former Obama attorney general, among others, all informed the Intelligence Committee that there was no direct evidence of Russian collusion.

              Of course, none of that stopped the media and the allies of the Democratic Party from disseminating the lies Schiff told. But the evidence is now out in the open, and it will be there for future ethics investigators to scrutinize when deciding whether Schiff should be held accountable for his actions.

              He's a little shitweasel, like yourself, Shrike.

      4. JesseAz   2 years ago

        Well this is a bookmark.

        1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

          It's decidedly one of the crazier things I've seen Shrike post here.

          1. JesseAz   2 years ago

            Tied for Media Matters is unbiased.

  30. Nardz   2 years ago

    https://twitter.com/AmiriKing/status/1673199829026045953?t=XxB3aoC22qr8ON5fMWAjLA&s=19

    It just gets weirder and weirder.

    So its making the rounds on social media that one of the demasked Patriot Front members is allegedly a Ben Brody, who is a member of a Jewish fraternity.

    Not to mention he’s studying criminology with hopes of graduating and working for the US government. (His words, not mine.)

    -Fast forward annnnnnd-

    • The Fraternity’s Instagram account is now private.

    • They scrubbed any mention of Ben Brody.

    • His Twitter is now suspended, which is even weirder.

    Here’s my two cents:

    If someone accused me of being somewhere I wasn’t, I would immediately take to social media (or hold a presser) to provide evidence that I was NOT.

    With ease.

    It’s 2023. There are fucking cameras everywhere.

    These Patriot Front people are running around throwing up Nazi salutes and calling people n******’s and shit.

    Any SANE person would IMMEDIATELY hop on twitter, disassociate themselves from Patriot Front, and clear that shit up REAL fucking quick.
    I know I would.

    Unless.

    A tell tale heart.

    [Link]

    1. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

      These Patriot Front people are running around throwing up Nazi salutes and calling people n******’s and shit.

      I can pretty much guarantee you that anyone behaving this way is either a false flag operator or being incited by one. Marxist groups do this shit to keep attention focused on their enemies and justify their own violence. The feds do it to ensure that sweet, sweet, "domestic terrorism" budget gets an increase every year.

    2. Fats of Fury   2 years ago

      Is that tweet related to this?

      https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1672981094902185986

  31. Sevo   2 years ago

    "Is there a ‘war’ between California and home insurers? State insurance commissioner responds"
    [...]
    (whiny human-interest story followed by):
    "Across California, insurance companies are slowing business — sometimes by not writing new homeowner and commercial policies, as is the case for State Farm and Allstate. Auto insurance too has been harder to get, according to California agents.
    [...]
    In a state where most everything else is notoriously expensive, one reason for California’s moderate insurance premiums is its regulations, which put the burden of proof on insurers to justify why they need to increase rates before they are allowed to do so. Those regulations are under fire now — from both consumer advocates who want the state to come down harder, and insurers who want it to be easier to get higher rates..."
    https://www.sfchronicle.com/california/article/home-auto-insurance-coverage-18162066.php

    See how gov't-imposed price-fixing helps? Always and everywhere.

  32. Hank Ferrous   2 years ago

    ''The world was captivated this weekend as Russian mercenaries exited Ukraine and started marching back into Russia.' Copy/paste; translate: 'Very online members of chattering classes & those who need to have everything explained immediately and neatly jumped to fucking conclusions, again. Armchair experts, pundits, and other purveyors of silly bullshit weighed in rather than allowing the situation to develop. The press does what the press always does, pushed a narrative before all the facts were known.' +1 for not tying in abortion rights, though. There's a pretty silly term the green collar sometimes use: tactical patience. It fucking applies, more often than not, to every story the EU/US media cover. Also, seems like less of a mutiny and more of a contract renegotiation to me, but I don't have an office at Oxford/King's to use in an appeal to authority argument...

  33. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

    Blatant political corruption.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/blatant-political-corruption-rot-americas-democracy-explained-under-1000-words

    Over the last several weeks and months, a deluge of damning breadcrumbs have been revealed by various whistleblowers, congressional investigators, and investigative reporters - the entirety of which has been a shotgun blast of information overload.

    When put together, they paint a picture of such shocking corruption, that one can only conclude that the period we've lived through, between the 2020 US election, the funding, origins, and coverup of the Covid-19 pandemic, and the overt corruption of the Biden family, one can only conclude that we're living through one of the worst, if not the worst, periods of political scandals and institutional rot in American history.

    Making sense the current state of affairs is journalist Tom Elliott, founder of Grabien, who has assembled what may be the world's most perfect tweet on how Joe Biden owes his 2020 election victory to "blatant political corruption."

    List of 18 points there.

    So, the next time you hear a Democrat decrying Republican efforts to dismantle democracy with their voter ID laws, or ending harvesting, consider the real threat to American democracy from the deep state. Their actions all sound very 'insurrection-y' to us.

    One could be forgiven for considering it 'meddling' and 'collusive', but that would be the stuff of conspiracy theorists, right?

  34. Sevo   2 years ago

    "Anticlimactic End to Wagner Group's Armed Rebellion in Russia"

    I'd call it a "pause"; Putin has been shown to be vulnerable.

    1. I, Woodchipper   2 years ago

      Prigozhin

      the neo-con cope over this failed coup that is mostly likely a psy-op in the first place is a wonder to behold.

  35. MWAocdoc   2 years ago (edited)

    “This report was drafted by the National Intelligence Officer for Weapons of Mass Destruction and Proliferation” – Okay, show of hands: who here knew there even was such an officer? Heh! I bet there is an Undersecretary for Weapons; an Assistant Undersecretary of Proliferation of Mass Destruction; and an Assistant Undersecretary for National Intelligence. Any takers?

  36. Ajsloss   2 years ago

    "Don't Call it a Coup Attempt?"

    No shit, motherfuckers didn't even have a fire extinguisher.

    1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

      You already made that joke:

      https://reason.com/2023/06/26/anticlimactic-end-to-wagner-groups-armed-rebellion-in-russia/?comments=true#comment-10126305

      1. Ajsloss   2 years ago

        They both may say three hours ago, but this one was first!

  37. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   2 years ago

    Hunter Biden Bribery Hoax update.

    Comer opposes a Hunter Biden probe special counsel: 'Ridiculous idea'

    Special counsel could uncover lies by Rudy Guiliani and other ratfuckers and stall political usefulness of fake probe by Congress.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/comer-opposes-hunter-biden-probe-special-counsel-ridiculous-idea

    1. Sevo   2 years ago

      turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
      turd lies. turd is a TDS-addled asshole, a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.

    2. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

      Weren't you the asshole pushing (and still pushing) the Russiagate hoax?

      1. Sevo   2 years ago

        It was totally false, so turd was likely pitching it every day. turd lies.

      2. R Mac   2 years ago

        Yes. He was also the one banned for posting links to child pornography.

    3. Cyto   2 years ago

      A special council would be completely neutered. That is what the plea deal was all about.

      Jeopardy has attached. The deal likely absolved him of most anything they could charge him with... so using charges to gain cooperation is off the table.

      1. JesseAz   2 years ago

        Comer is really saying he wouldn't trust any Special Prosecutor appointed by Garland after Jack Smith and the ghost he appointed to look into Joe's documents.

  38. DesigNate   2 years ago

    The declassified COVID-19 origins report was released last Friday.

    What difference, at this point, does that make?

  39. Dillinger   2 years ago

    Ride of the Valkyries straight to a Polonium-210 margarita.

  40. Dillinger   2 years ago

    also, why should stupid people not be free to present their children to the pedophile show @Hamburger Mary's?

    1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

      And you know a priori there will be pedophilic content in the show, how?

      1. Dillinger   2 years ago

        "we're coming for your children!"

        the funniest use of a priori was by Monty Python.

        1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

          That's a quote from someone associated with the show at Hamburger Mary's?

          1. Dillinger   2 years ago

            why does an adult man need to dance in front of children?

            1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

              No, he doesn't.

              However, "Does an adult man have the right to dance in front of children even though he has no need to?"

              Also, a simpler question for you: "How do you know there will be any dancing?"

              1. JesseAz   2 years ago (edited)

                No. They don’t. Just like they don’t have a right to sleep with children.

                Bookmarked.

          2. Minadin   2 years ago

            https://twitter.com/itsNTBmedia/status/1672568245851766785

            1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

              Yes? And? That's a video of a bunch of people in New York.

              We were discussing a show at Hamburger Mary's in Orlando, Florida.

          3. Dillinger   2 years ago

            mike this was getting interesting wha'happa?

            1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

              I did some chores and ate lunch.

  41. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago

    A significant conflict within Russia seemed imminent—until Pregozhin's forces suddenly retreated.

    Only if you watched the news did you believe that a significant conflict with Russia seemed imminent.

    1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago (edited)

      When an event like this is happening, what do you recommend people do instead of watching the news?

      1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

        You do realize this is 2023 Mike, not 1983?

        1. Dillinger   2 years ago

          didn't watch one second of news. had a fucking amazing weekend.

        2. JesseAz   2 years ago

          Mike refuses to even watch videos. He waits to be told a narrative. Despite him being on Twitter all day.

      2. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago

        Seek information. Like how people who didn't watch the news knew that Ottawa was going to see the biggest trucker protest in history weeks before it happened, when the CBC was reporting "a small trucker protest over road conditions" in a remote region of a Canadian province.

        1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

          Seek information where? What are your recommendations for sources?

          1. JesseAz   2 years ago

            You could start with the links constantly provided here.

      3. R Mac   2 years ago

        Stay in your bubble Dee. It’s amusing.

    2. MWAocdoc   2 years ago

      It's sort of like when the Republicans are in the minority they want to "confront" the socialist legislative agenda and over-the-top spending of the Democrats, but the moment the Republicans have the majority again they "retreat" from cutting spending or repealing the legislation implemented under the Democrats' socialist agenda. Also - watching "the news."

  42. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   2 years ago

    A factory boom is finally happening
    The construction of new US factories is hitting unprecedented levels.
    ...
    President Obama tried to revitalize American manufacturing, with little to show for it. President Trump tried too, with similarly unimpressive results.
    ...
    Under President Biden, however, a manufacturing boom finally seems to be getting started. Since the beginning of 2022, construction spending on new factories has more than doubled, from an annualized rate of $91 billion in January 2022 to $189 billion in April 2023, the latest data available. That’s the biggest jump, by far, in data going back to 2002.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/a-factory-boom-is-finally-happening-190048801.html

    Hmmm, not in the MAGA narrative?

    1. Sevo   2 years ago

      turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a TDS-addled asshole, a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
      If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
      turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

    2. Minadin   2 years ago

      We're building things as fast as we can because business owners are scared shitless about how much it will cost in the future if they wait.

      When we get a price on something, that price used to be good for several (3-6) months. Now, it's less than a week.

      1. R Mac   2 years ago

        A reminder of SPB’s knowledge of how businesses work: he claims the 10% for the big guy is just the bar tab. That’s right, he thinks 10% of business deals are spent at the bar.

        1. Minadin   2 years ago

          That would be a nice allowance for the $30 million hotel project I'm working on.

      2. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   2 years ago

        cost in the future if they wait

        That would explain overtime and running extra shifts or lines. But it doesn't explain huge capital outlays on buildings and equipment.

        So, fail.

        The economy is strong. Investment is strong.

        1. Minadin   2 years ago

          The fuck it doesn't?

          Building materials are WAY up over last year on cost. Last year they were WAY up over the year prior. And not this 5-10% bullshit you see in the news, I'm talking 25% or more on most things. We have a hotel in California that was originally budgeted at under $20 million in 2019, which is now projected to be over $35m.

          1. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   2 years ago

            Sure, materials are up.

            Listen again.

            NO COMPANY is building new plants because they are pessimistic about the future.

            1. Sevo   2 years ago

              turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
              turd lies. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.

    3. JesseAz   2 years ago

      This is as good as when you claim 4% inflation is good because it is down from 7% under Joe.

      1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

        Pluggo, the Jim Cramer of Reason.

  43. mad.casual   2 years ago

    The world was captivated this weekend...

    I don't even believe this much of the story. It's New York Times-world.

    1. Gaear Grimsrud   2 years ago

      Fortunately they didn't have enough column inches left for this:
      https://www.zerohedge.com/political/hunter-biden-wrote-hookers-sex-club-taxes-whistleblower

      1. Gaear Grimsrud   2 years ago

        Another whistleblower, IRS supervisory agent Gary Shapely , told the committee on May 26 that he found several instances of Hunter expensing flights for prostitutes.
        "There were multiple examples of prostitutes that were ordered basically, and we have all the communications between that where he would pay for these prostitutes, would book them a flight where even the flight ticket showed their name. And then he expensed those," said Shapely , who noted that they were expensed to Biden's consulting firm, Owasco, PC.
        What's more, Hunter expensed a deposit for an elite Los Angeles sex club (which he was kicked out of for 'grabbing women's asses' and 'acting like a spoiled child').
        "He made payments – there’s an $18,000 wire that is made to one of these individuals, and on the wires they say $8,000 in wage and $10,000 in golf – $10k golf club member deposit. And we know that that $10,000 went to pay for a sex club," the anonymous IRS investigator testified.
        "“He went to a sex club, and we’ve talked to the person that owned that sex club, and they confirmed that he was there. And the guy has to pay $10,000, and the girl – whoever is referring him there doesn’t have to pay anything. So that was deducted on the tax return," he continued.
        According to Shapely , on his 2018 return, Hunter paid "one of his girlfriends" and recorded it as a "golf membership."
        "We went out and followed that money, it was for a sex club membership in LA," said Shapely.

      2. Gaear Grimsrud   2 years ago

        Or this:
        https://cms.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/FzPv1FrWYAMUoVH.jpg?itok=LpuaX2ie

  44. Dillinger   2 years ago

    >>Outlawing TikTok would be a gravely disproportionate response to any concerns that the app poses.

    ya CCP's like 198 steps beyond "get the kids hooked to TikTok"

  45. Nardz   2 years ago

    https://twitter.com/amuse/status/1673327272302870532?t=saFo0CrwjAHQMnch3bE4Fg&s=19

    FAKE NEWS: President Zelensky has announced he will not allow presidential elections to take place after claiming the Ukrainian Constitution prohibits elections during martial law. In fact, the Ukrainian Constitution does not contain a specific provision that prohibits holding elections during martial law. The constitution of Ukraine doesn't provide an in-depth explanation of the specifics of martial law and how it affects elections.

    Ukraine's laws regarding martial law, such as the Law of Ukraine "On the Legal Regime of Martial Law" (2005), may give Zelensky the authority to impose a range of measures that could include postponing elections - but that would be Zelenksy's choice, not a requirement of the Constitution as he falsely claimed.

    [Link]

    1. Gaear Grimsrud   2 years ago

      Next up. Biden declares martial law to control Moms for Liberty who won't stop picketing school board meetings. 2024 election cancelled as AI generated Biden robot is installed in the Oval Office. 2028 election cancelled as 85 year old AI Joe continues to battle school board moms now heavily armed by Ukrainian oligarchs and the Taliban with US Army surplus.

      1. NOYB2   2 years ago

        At this point, I'd prefer an animatronic, AI controlled Biden to the senile fool that's in the WH.

        I mean, both of them do what the neocon/neolib handlers tell them, but the animatronic Biden would at least not go off script and accidentally start WW3.

    2. MWAocdoc   2 years ago

      That's what martial law means - it means the Constitution is suspended, the president or chairman or prime minister or whatever becomes the military dictator of the nation and issues whatever orders she wishes to. It implies that the social disorder and disruption are so bad that normal processes have failed although, obviously, that's frequently just the excuse used by power-hungry politicians to seize the power they crave.

  46. Fist of Etiquette   2 years ago

    The declassified COVID-19 origins report was released last Friday.

    Not worth going into detail on that.

    1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

      Huh??? There's a link right there to all the details you could want.

      1. Minadin   2 years ago

        Simp harder Mike; she's never going to make you that sandwich.

        1. Dillinger   2 years ago

          if I didn't assume she had better things to do with her life I'd put five on Mike being ENB

          1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

            This from a guy who was sitting here waiting for me to reply to one of his comments while I was busy doing stuff in the real world:

            https://reason.com/2023/06/26/anticlimactic-end-to-wagner-groups-armed-rebellion-in-russia/?comments=true#comment-10126816

            1. Dillinger   2 years ago

              >>sitting here waiting for me to reply

              lol c'mon dude it was 2 hours later & you hadn't answered even though you were up & down every thread on Latest ...

        2. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

          Nitpick Reason harder while freeloading on their website.

          1. Minadin   2 years ago

            Freeloading?

            1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

              Yes. Many of the right-wing clique of commenters on this site openly brag about how they don't subscribe to the magazine and don't contribute to Reason during the webathons. So, they are using Reason's comment section as a hangout, while not paying a dime and continually biting the hand that feeds them.

              1. JesseAz   2 years ago (edited)

                Oh. So no ads then. You’re a freeloader on Twitte and YouTube.

              2. Minadin   2 years ago

                I seem to recall both Fist's name and mine up on the donor marquee. I do get the magazine, and the newsletter, and this weekend I received a 'Thank You Donor' letter from David Nott.

                1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

                  I apologize to you.

              3. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

                That just irritates you, Mike. Are you an editor, or just that in love with a certain editor in hopes she makes you a sandwich?

                Mike, it's not happening. She's not going to do that for you.

              4. R Mac   2 years ago

                Works in tech, doesn’t know how web traffic works.

    2. MWAocdoc   2 years ago

      I read it in detail and it was NOT "worth going into detail" on it, although I'm sure that, in due course, Reason WILL go into detail on that. Spoiler alert: the executive summary is wishy-washy in every possible way you can imagine and is mostly contradicting of the narrative being spun lately that it "names names and proves the lab origin theory.

  47. Gaear Grimsrud   2 years ago

    So many shiny objects for New Koch libertarians to contemplate today. Mutiny in Russia, Mexican Cartels, drag queens, street cars, Meta. The list goes on. I'm so busy trying to absorb all of these threats to liberty that I almost missed this:
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-hunter-biden-whistle-blows-arrest-doj-irs-firearm-felony-jail-9d114e5f?mod=opinion_lead_pos8
    Not shiny enough for Reason libertarians I guess.

    1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago

      Hey, the World was Captivated by The March on Moscow!

      1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

        OK, please explain what was wrong with ENB using the word, "captivated". Or whatever your criticism is...

        1. JesseAz   2 years ago

          Such a simp.

    2. ducksalad   2 years ago

      Wouldn't you agree that the law he violated is the real threat to liberty? Him getting off the hook is outrageously corrupt, but doesn't directly deprive us of any individual freedoms.

      1. Minadin   2 years ago

        I think that normalizing corruption, to the point that it's blatant and even defended by some people, is a FAR greater threat to our republic than a firearm restriction that shouldn't exist.

        1. ducksalad   2 years ago (edited)

          Maybe I’m just more cynical than you, I think families of the powerful getting special treatment has been normalized pretty much everywhere since the invention of government.

          Certainly in my lifetime, a good example being Ted Kennedy getting away with intoxication manslaughter aggravated by depraved indifference while his victim suffocated. Bad as Hunter Biden is, he hasn’t killed anyone yet.

      2. Gaear Grimsrud   2 years ago

        Wagner group didn't threaten my individual liberty. When the country I live in abandons the rule of law, my individual liberty is threatened.

        1. virat4   2 years ago (edited)

          Earn over $1000 a day easily from your own time sharing home. I made $28,781 from this job in my spare time after graduating from college. “r111 years of easy work and steady income is amazing. No skills required for this position. All you need to know is how to copy and paste anything online.Sign up today by following the details on this page.

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      3. NOYB2   2 years ago

        No, the real threat to liberty is to allow governing elites to engage in fraud, corruption, and felonies without prosecuting them, while throwing the book at their political opponents and ordinary citizens. In fact, that is pretty much the definition of a police state.

  48. Fist of Etiquette   2 years ago

    Outlawing TikTok would be a gravely disproportionate response to any concerns that the app poses.

    It would hardly be a proper panic otherwise.

    1. mad.casual   2 years ago

      At the same time, not all speech that shouldn't be banned has value.

  49. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

    The DNI is led by a fucking wannabe Jedi Master.

    In 2013, the WIV collected animal samples from which they identified the bat coronavirus RaTG13, which is 96.2 percent similar to the COVID-19 virus. By 2018, the WIV had sequenced almost all of RaTG13, which is the second closest known whole genome match to SARS-CoV-2, after BANAL-52, which is 96.8 percent similar. Neither of these viruses is close enough to SARS-CoV-2 to be a direct progenitor.

    These are not the droids you are looking for.

    Some of the WIV’s genetic engineering projects on coronaviruses involved techniques that could make it difficult to detect intentional changes. A 2017 dissertation by a WIV student showed that reverse genetic cloning techniques—which are standard techniques used in advanced molecular laboratories—left no traces of genetic modification of SARS-like coronaviruses.

    Even if they were those droids, you couldn't prove it.

    Some WIV researchers probably did not use adequate biosafety precautions at least some of the time prior to the pandemic in handling SARS-like coronaviruses, increasing the risk of accidental exposure to viruses. Before the pandemic, the WIV had been working to improve at least some biosafety conditions and training. We do not know of a specific biosafety incident at the WIV that spurred the pandemic and the WIV’s biosafety training appears routine, rather than an emergency response by China’s leadership.

    The security in the Outer Rim is so lax that those droids certainly would have escaped a long time ago if they had been here. Now that the Empire is in control, you can be sure their investigation would have uncovered the droids if they were here.

    Several WIV researchers were ill in Fall 2019 with symptoms; some of their symptoms were consistent with but not diagnostic of COVID-19. The IC continues to assess that this information neither supports nor refutes either hypothesis of the pandemic’s origins because the researchers’ symptoms could have been caused by a number of diseases and some of the symptoms were not consistent with COVID-19.

    The droid parts you found are not even standard for these droids.

    China’s National Security Commission investigated the WIV in early 2020 and took blood samples from WIV researchers. According to the World Health Organization's March 2021 public report, WIV officials including Shi Zhengli—who leads the WIV laboratory group that conducts coronavirus research—stated lab employee samples all tested negative for SARS-CoV-2 antibodies.

    I have a letter right here from the office of Darth Vader stating that he never built or owned any droids. Do you intend to question Lord Vader?

  50. Bill Falcon   2 years ago

    Started listening to Judging Freedom podcast daily. The Nap has all the folks who are not part of the CFR/Neocon/Bolshie cabal that runs our foreign policy and mainstream media. You get a bunch of former military intell officers, CIA and others who actually know what is really going on in Ukraine...and the left's hero Trotsky (Zelinsky) isn't reaching Moscow anytime soon.

  51. NOYB2   2 years ago

    You do realize that the people angry with Putin are more nationalist and more militaristic and more anti-West than Putin, right?

  52. The Last American Hero   2 years ago

    Sooooo many Hot takes from the last few days turned out to be sooooo wrong.

  53. DoomerBob   2 years ago

    The State Department is trying to convince us that sanctions are effective when they talk about the Wagner situation, but in fact sanctions have nothing to do with it. This is another attempt by Democrats to show that Biden is a good president. Especially before the 2024 elections

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