Joe Biden Presses Ahead With Vaccine Mandates, Inviting Legal Challenges
Plus: The Twin Cities will both vote on rent control ballot initiatives, New Jersey and Virginia voters will pick a new governor, and more...

The Biden administration is pressing ahead with requiring workers to get their COVID jab or potentially lose their job, a move that will certainly invite legal challenges. Later this week, the U.S. Department of Labor will publish its rule mandating that private sector businesses with 100 or more employees have all their workers either get vaccinated or get periodic testing for COVID-19, reports the Wall Street Journal.
The Department of Labor said that the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) had completed its review of the vaccine mandate on Monday, and the full text would be available in "the coming days."
Also on Monday, the Biden administration released the details of a separate mandate requiring government contractors to get the vaccine. The new guidance tells contractors to provide "counseling and education" to employees who refuse the vaccine "followed by additional disciplinary measures", reports Roll Call. Firing non-vaccinated employees should be a last resort, according to the new government guidance. It also gives contractors the ability to grant their employees medical and religious exemptions.
Both vaccine mandates have proven controversial. Some business associations have asked that the rules be delayed through the end of the holidays so as not to add to existing staffing shortages.
"Now placing vaccination mandates on employers, which in turn force employees to be vaccinated, will create a workforce crisis for our industry and the communities, families and businesses we serve," said Chris Spear, president of the American Trucking Association in a letter to OMB, reports CNBC.
Employers that don't comply with the new rule will face fines of up to $13,600 per violation, per the Journal.
On September, 24 Republican state attorneys general sent the Biden administration a letter calling its vaccine mandate for private employees a "disastrous and counterproductive" policy based on "flimsy legal arguments." Should the White House not change course, they said they would "seek every legal option available to…uphold the rule of law."
A few trade associations seem interested in taking up the case too.
The National Federation of Independent Businesses, which represents small businesses, said in a September letter that the administration was forcing its members to "serve as the government's instruments of coercion against its own employees." Those are fighting words.
George Mason University law professor Ilya Somin, writing at The Volokh Conspiracy (which is hosted at Reason), has argued that the federal government is on its firmest legal ground when mandating vaccines for its own employees. A mandate that the employees of private companies get the shot as well, and the emergency rule-making process that the Biden administration is using to implement that mandate, "are legally dubious and would set a dangerous precedent, if upheld," writes Somin.
Expect lawsuits to fly once the full text of the vaccine mandate is released.
FREE MARKETS
Voters in Minnesota's Twin Cities will vote on rent control ballot initiatives in local elections today. Both are bad, but one is far worse than the other. Minneapolis's City Question 3 is the less offensive of the two. It would merely allow the city council to either pass a rent control measure of its own or submit one to voters in the form of a referendum.
A majority yes vote on Question 3 wouldn't require the city to adopt a rent control measure. But it obviously would create a huge amount of political pressure to act on the will of voters. Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey, who is up for reelection today as well, has said he'll vote yes on the measure, reports the Minneapolis Star-Tribune. His top opponents in the mayoral election have likewise endorsed Question 3.
In contrast to Minneapolis' non-binding referendum, the ballot measure going before voters in neighboring St. Paul would, if approved, impose a binding 3 percent cap on rent increases. That's a much lower ceiling that recently passed rent control laws in Oregon and California, which cap rent increases at 7 percent and 5 percent respectively.
Those laws also allow those rent increases on top of inflation. St. Paul's does not, meaning that if inflation were to exceed 3 percent, landlords would effectively be required to lower real rents.
Oregon and California's rent control laws also exempt buildings that are less than 15 years old from their price caps in an effort to limit the disincentive these laws create to build new housing. St. Paul's ballot initiative has no such exception for new housing.
For that reason, even proponents of more limited forms of rent control have criticized the St. Paul measure as extreme and likely to reduce new housing construction.
ELECTION 2021
It's election day! Here are a few races and referenda to keep your eye on as voters go to the polls.
- Voters in Virginia will pick a new governor today in a closely watched, increasingly tight race. Up until a few months ago, it looked like the election was former Democratic Gov. Terry McAuliffe's to lose. The state has been trending blue in recent years and hasn't elected a Republican governor since 2009. McAuliffe's series of gaffes, including saying that parents shouldn't tell teachers what to teach, have helped put Republican Glenn Youngkin ahead in some recent polls.
- Less exciting is the gubernatorial race in New Jersey, where incumbent Democratic Gov. Phil Murphy is running as much as 11 points ahead of his Republican opponent, former state legislator Jack Ciattarelli. Under Murphy, New Jersey had one of the highest COVID death rates and some of the country's strictest lockdown policies. If he wins, Murphy will be the first Democratic governor reelected in New Jersey since Brenden Byrne in 1977, reports NPR.
- Bloomberg's CityLab reports that $27 billion in bond initiatives are on Tuesday's ballots. That's about half the amount of borrowing voters were asked to approve last year, with the lower figure explained in part by a surge in federal pandemic aid to states and localities, despite many of them running massive surpluses.
- FiveThirtyEight notes that there are a number of special congressional elections as well, including two in Ohio's (solidly blue) 11th and (solidly red)15th districts. A Democratic primary will also be held in Florida's 20th District to fill the vacant seat of the late Alcee Hastings. Given the district's deep blue makeup, this will likely determine the winner of the general election to be held in January.
- In addition to rent control, Minneapolis voters will decide whether to abolish their police department and replace it with a department of public safety. The more things change…
QUICK LINKS
- The Biden administration is expected to announce new rules limiting methane emissions.
- Political dirty trickster and Donald Trump supporter Roger Stone has said he might try to run for Florida governor on the Libertarian Party ticket if current Gov. Ron DeSantis doesn't order an audit of the 2020 election.
- After activists defeated plans for a market-rate housing complex in San Francisco's Mission district, the city plans to step in and build affordable housing on the site. The San Francisco Business Times says that the permitting process for that affordable housing will start in 2025. In unrelated news, a new report finds that low- and middle-income workers can't afford to live in San Francisco.
- Yahoo is the latest tech company to pull out of China.
- A Squid Game-inspired cryptocurrency "collapses in apparent scam" reports the BBC.
Rent Free is a weekly newsletter from Christian Britschgi on urbanism and the fight for less regulation, more housing, more property rights, and more freedom in America's cities.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
The Biden administration is pressing ahead with requiring workers to get their COVID jab or potentially lose their job...
That will get this economy back on track.
LGB....T!
(Let's Go Brandon....Totally!) 🙂
I made over $700 per day using my mobile in part time. I recently got my 5th paycheck of $19632 and all i was doing is to copy and paste work online. this home work makes me able to generate more cash daily easily.FEq simple to do work and regular income from this are just superb. Here what i am doing.
Try now............... VISIT HERE
Seriously I don’t know why more people haven’t tried this, I work two shifts, 2 hours in the day and 2 in the evening…FhOL And i get surly a check of $12600 what’s awesome is I m working from home so I get more time with my kids.
Try it, you won’t regret it........CASHAPP1
Have to do something to justify making 5 million illegals legal. We need the workers! Once we fire everyone.
Fuck Joe Biden!
Fuck Tulpa!
Will never be a thing.
fuck off and die, asshole.
Tulpa is like Beetlejuice. Best to just not mention his name.
Yeah, maybe that’s good advice. The whole “Fuck Tulpa!” thing is getting as boring and tedious as the “Fuck Biden!” thing, anyway.
Someone is peaking.
Peeking*
Weird that “not a Democrat” Dee is still so concerned with the Fuck Joe Biden meme.
Like turd, he's far too stupid to remember the lies he told minutes ago.
Actually most of the country is quite enjoying it. The only ones finding it tedious tend to be the partisan DNC shills, as far as I have seen.
His approval rating is in the toilet despite full media support and tongue bathings. He has lost anywhere from 10-30% of independent support depending on which poll (but they are all in this direction). The nation overall is quite cool with "fuck Joe Biden", and they arent accepting of "the new normal (TM)" or "build back better! (TM)".
In summary, fuck joe biden
And Dee, sarc, and Lying Jeffy all find it tedious. But none of them are Democrat shills. Just ask them, they’ll tell you.
and the journos. Those snowflakes are losing their shit.
Nah, it's boring.
There's way too much of it here in the commentariat. The Reason commentariat used to be a place for intelligent libertarian discussion; it has devolved into a right-wing hangout full of signaling and group whining.
There’s plenty of intelligent libertarian discussion here in the comments. And even in some of the articles.
I occasionally have intelligent libertarian discussions. The usual suspects may chime in with a personal attack here and there, but never with any ideas. The list of people who have no interest in such discussions is much longer than the list of people who do.
And I’m totally not being dishonest, even though I’ve muted most of the people saying it.
Yes, because there is zero reason a libertarian could be against Joe biden of all people.
You sound ridiculous.
"...You sound ridiculous."
NOT and illusion.
haha "right wing" means "not communist" to this guy
You've got that backwards. Anything "not Republican" is "communist" according to the majority in these comments.
in their defense, republicans are basically communist too so anything left of republicans these days IS communist
Hey you know how you can never properly use the term "tu quoque" because you don't understand what it means? What you just did is an example of tu quoque. Just for edification and future reference. Of course it's a lot less damaging since the tu quoqe is based on a construction that only exists in your deluded fever dreams. But still, it's something to work with.
Ummmmm...... no?
"The Reason commentariat used to be a place for intelligent libertarian discussion; "
This is Laursen projecting again. For the benefit of the thread, Mike pretends he just wants good ol conversation, but he has ZERO interest in it. Want proof?
https://reason.com/2021/09/09/california-is-set-to-outlaw-unannounced-condom-removal/?comments=true#comment-9091773
That's Mike pretending to be reasonable, saying he would never trust anything Rolling Stone wrote, after spending the previous weekend spreading around their Ivermectin story.
You cannot have "intelligent libertarian discussion" with someone who will tell you one thing one day, and then completely deny it the next day. Mike isn't here for discussion. He is here to concern troll, and the link above is all the proof you need.
And it is pretty sad to see Sarc supporting his lies.
What am I supporting? Dude, don't bring me into your tiff with Mike. I agree with the guy when he's right, and I call him out when he's wrong. Don't lump us together. That's not honest.
Just because you've literally never disagreed with him on any subject and constantly tongue-bathe his balls even when he's demonstrably wrong like his embarrassing HO2 boner people somehow get the impression that you're just his sockpuppet or something. Weird.
Check out the inflation thread today. He disagrees with me about whether inflation is clearly evident.
Oh, and you are the one who made the HO2 comments, Tulpa, not me.
I already said "Hi" and muted the guy.
One thing I've noticed is that there is no intelligent conversation to be had with someone spouting "Fuck Joe Biden."
And it's easy to see you are incapable of having an honest conversation.
So you've never had an intelligent conversation with me?
If you are on his mute list you are a right wing lunatic. Sarcasmic has spoken.
That or you simply pointed out how dumb his argumentation was.
Maybe I should wonder.
And yet you have congratulated and lauded people who spouted "fuck Donald Trump" and also spent 5 years accusing him of being a Russian intelligence asset whose entire presidency and presidential policy was guided by Vladimir Putin as a result of a sex tape in which he gets peed on by Russian hookers in a Moscow hotel. It's almost like you're a pathetic DNC shill who is a lying piece of shit or something.
There is no intelligent conversation to be had with Joe Biden, so Fuck Him!
What's boring about Fuck Biden? Every day there seems to be a new reason.
I really didn't think that right after Bush and Obama and Trump there could be another worst president ever. But here we are. And fuck that guy.
Makes you wonder how bad Kamala will be, if the trend holds.
Epic levels of horrible.
*Cackles in Lizard Person*
Literal Hitler levels of horrible.
Fuck lying ass Dee.
Fuck White Mike, hail Tulpa.
Fuck Tulpa too. Both the original and the asshole troll now associated with the handle.
AGREED.
I have called out Tulpa in the past too. I call out Mike Laursen because he is the absolute WORST shit poster on this site. I can easily skip past the Tulpas and others. However, Mike had me fooled because he drops into the comments pretending to want a good discussion, but always bails when he starts losing the debate, then brings up the EXACT SAME POINTS that didn't cary the debate for him 2 days ago. Even worse, when he realizes he's wrong or the Lefty narrative changes, he will be in here insisting the sky has always been blue despite his previous weeks of insisting it was green.
As I said- I can deal with shit posting one liners and insults- you can skip past them. But Mike is the worst precisely because he pretends to be interested in an actual conversation.
Now that you point it out I haven't had any thoughtful conversations with Mike. I have with you. And others. But in his defense he is consistent, though not thoroughly thought out.
He did offer some good thoughts on today's commie article by KMW.
"though not thoroughly thought out"
Hey, I was just taking a cheap shot about William Shatner. I love the guy just like everybody else, except George Takei.
When Dee was posting as White Knight, she stole my handle, to teach “Tulpa” a moral lesson…about stealing handles.
Mine too.
You're probably referring to me since you're sarcascmic's little ankle biting bitch boy, even though I am not Tulpa and have a completely different set of principles and rhetorical and linguistic tics. Jesus fucking Christ it would be nice to meet one motherfucker on this shithole of a website that wasn't on the goddamn spectrum.
Well, I don't know. Are you the one who adopted the Tulpa handle for a while? I know you aren't the original, who was a very different personality.
But you do seem to be that asshole who changes handles all the time and is unnecessarily shitty, so fuck you too, buddy.
Are you the one who adopted the Tulpa handle for a while?
No - that's definitely not the same guy. This guy uses a different middling-famous, usually has-been name every day, and sticks to that name all day. "Psuedo-Tulpa" would run a half-dozen socks at a time and frequently spoofed other people's names largely in the name of provoking and making fun of people. I actually don't think he's been around for a while - he has a pretty characteristic sense of humor that this guy lacks.
This guy has been around forever and a day, and seems to have some serious anger issues, but I wouldn't say he's a troll - he's got a consistent and generally intelligent, if extremely grumpy, viewpoint.
You know what’s hilarious? You acting like you’re non partisan and then getting your panties in such a twist because people are saying “Fuck Joe Biden”. Because we all remember the last five years, and you never once tried to pivot a “Fuck Trump” to Fuck Tulpa.
Who was saying "Fuck Trump"? All I saw was "Trump is so dreamy! He can't do anything wrong!"
Agreed. And the comments regarding sucking Drumpf’s cock were extremely rare, so weren’t worth my concern.
Sarcasmic was one of the primary people calling everyone who disagreed with him a Trump Cultist.
"Drumpf"
Outing yourself. Almost everyone that goes for this cringe term is a John Oliver (extra cringe) fan. How many times did you watch that episode and fap?
Embarrassing.
"...All I saw was "Trump is so dreamy! He can't do anything wrong!""
And sarc wonders why he is universally seen as a dishonest piece of lefty shit.
I for one. And I'm sure if I could be arsed to dig I could find others.
And because you criticized Trump, everyone who worshipped him started being mean to you, like we did sarc! Oh wait…
You've got my attention.
"Everywhere I look I see exactly what I'm looking for!"
You're an unbelievably stupid piece of shit who was pulled in by a media narrative and still can't let it go even after the subject of your daily ritualistic 2 minutes hate has been out of office for nearly a fucking year.
I personally said 'Fuck Trump' multiple times over the last few years, but that never stopped Sarc or his lefty boos from calling me a Trumptista or Team Red ballhandler. SQLFKR and jeffy had entire fantastic Trumptator scenarios about how he was going to refuse to leave office which Sarc gave praise.
The faster these shitstains mute their critics, the easier it is see that have zero tolerance for honest discourse. He muted me for my habit of calling out his fallacy of the day. Now both he and White Mike try to call out fallacies. It is amusing to watch them get it wrong. They struggle to identify actual critical thinking.
The faster these shitstains mute their critics, the easier it is see that have zero tolerance for honest discourse.
White Mike's muted so many people in a vain effort to craft his own comment hugbox, that he didn't even recognize Alan Vanneman, who's probably been commenting here with one-offs ever since Reason put up the comment board.
Damn, you’re pathetic.
Fuck Joe Biden
Fuck Joe Biden
Music to my ears. I spent 4 years saying fuck Trump. I prefer it this way.
Whatever you say
He is praising democrats in the va vote thread lol. They lie so openly.
Not to praise Stroozle, but that's a great retort.
Except he isnt consistent. Peek at the va thread. False centrist.
It wasn't about consistency, but the turnaround. I wish I'd said something similar about Trump over Obama, when the media was pushing their "Fuck Trump" bit.
He'd rather have Sloppy Joe fucking him. Ymmv.
Music to my ears would be the end of rule by executive order. Guess I'm just crazy for wanting the return of the republic I love.
fuck off and die, shitlord.
New Jersey and Virginia voters will pick a new governor
I assure you that the good people of NJ have basically zero interest in picking a new governor. All hail the Phail!
Should the White House not change course, they said they would "seek every legal option available to…uphold the rule of law."
This is what Biden's handlers decided his administration needs to be about right now.
Vote out the incompetent Phailing Phil Murphy, governor of the People's Republic of NJ.
His incompetence and blind devotion to progressive and statist ideology killed thousands of elderly nursing home patients. Vote the incompetent SOB out of office.
[Morgan Freeman voice] But in fact, Phil Murphy would not be voted out of office on Tuesday... [/Morgan Freeman]
Sorry XY. I hope you win.
Phailing Phil Murphy's incompetence and absolute policy insanity in letting covid+ patients in nursing homes killed thousands. One of them was a family member. And BTW, that harpy who is the health commissioner...she ain't any better.
In a just world, their conscience would never let them have a moment's peace ever again. But they have no conscience, and they are utterly incompetent.
In a just world I wouldn’t be worrying about expressing my opinion and the next Preet trying to jail me for it.
Be the change you wish to see in others.
I can't become a stomach cancer cell that rapidly replicates in sarcasmic's body.
Hi Tulpa.
Hi Sqrlsy you autistic retard who can't differentiate the language, rhetoric and ideology of one person from another because you are incapable of comprehending normal human language and social cues!
Hard to recognize social cues when you’re shitfaced all the time.
Unfortunately Murphy's incompetence was exceeded by Ciatarelli's incompetence in running a campaign.
I voted at lunch, and I was surprised by the turnout. I still don't think it will be enough.
Having participated in the surge planning process I have some sympathy for the panic which drove that decision. But it was obvious to me (which I voiced up the chain of command) that such a policy was going to create the very problem it was intended to alleviate. Lo and behold.
Of course, nobody listens to me. I'm just an analyst.
Apparently you have to improve your "people skills", C.
"I'm just an analyst."
Go Jack Ryan or go home.
Senior thesis: a comparative analysis of the film versions of Jack Ryan and James Bond, and what their commonalities and differences say about each nation's understanding of itself as in imperial superpower.
How the order to send covid patients back into nursing homes while still positive isn't running on a loop in every commercial break is beyond me. It seems like that would be a decisive issue.
Agreed. Honestly, this race is a case study in the demise of the national GOP. Ciatarelli is running a shoestring campaign in one of the most expensive media markets in the country, against an abject failure of an incumbent; the RNC and/or RGA should be heavily involved to pick up some of the slack. But what do they contribute? A couple of mailers and some GOTV text message spam. Thanks a lot, fuckos.
The NJ governorship turns on results in bluish suburbs and working class exurbs. Ideally you'd want to use these sorts of races to testbed positions geared towards those areas, particularly because of the national implications (if NJ had 5 GOP congressmen instead of 2 then we probably wouldn't even be having a discussion over BBB), but they don't have the resources to get involved, and everyone nowadays is so goddam risk averse that there's no push to even try.
Hopefully Youngkin's unexpectedly successful challenge can get them to start spending resources on actually building the party beyond its safe districts and tailoring things to local conditions to start playing some offense. In my dreams.
The NJ governorship turns on results in bluish suburbs and working class exurbs. Ideally you'd want to use these sorts of races to testbed positions geared towards those areas, particularly because of the national implications (if NJ had 5 GOP congressmen instead of 2 then we probably wouldn't even be having a discussion over BBB), but they don't have the resources to get involved, and everyone nowadays is so goddam risk averse that there's no push to even try.
Is that how Christie ended up winning?
Twelve years ago those bluish suburbs were much redder and Christie was a known quantity with a lot of Bush backing. 8 years ago he managed to also pick up 30ish percent of the black vote running against a truly awful candidate (2013's landslide and the disappointment that followed is another reason why Murphy's reign is extra infuriating).
A mandate that the employees of private companies get the shot as well, and the emergency rule-making process that the Biden administration is using to implement that mandate, "are legally dubious and would set a dangerous precedent, if upheld..."
Anyone think they won't be upheld?
Let's go ask Justice Roberts...
He will rule that a mandate is illegal, but companies can penaltax employees into unemployment if they refuse
Many of the states and companies are denying unemployment if fired for not being vaccinated.
The new segregation. It's not gonna end well.
They have to break the populace.
Forced to pay into a system where the rules later change unilaterally to deny the same folks access to what they were forced to pay.
Agree, this will not end well.
Sets a hell of a precedent if they get away with it.
Of course, Reason is fine with private companies changing their contracts unilaterally, so we won’t hear anything from them on this topic.
Hurrrrrrr enforcing contracts is bringing Big Gubmint into employment durrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Or Kavanaugh....it's unconstitutional, but give the government some time to figure out how to get everyone vaccinated before blocking it.
I thought that was the point of withholding the exact text of the mandate. You can't sue before there's a rule to sue about, after all, so employees will face the choice before any preliminary injunctions can be issued.
Well the fines on employers is clearly a penaltax so...
This from the administration who did the eviction blocking after the USSC already ruled. They count on the 2 to 3 year process to get their desires in front of the court.
I think there’s a good chance legal challenges to the OSHA mandate will succeed. The OSHA mandate is not exactly on solid legal ground, and it has a _lot_ of opposition.
Mandates for Federal contractors, on the other hand, probably cannot be successfully challenged.
You haven't opposed it for 10 months. Don't switch sides now. Be the faithful soldier.
She squawks at Ken for the same thing below. Self awareness is not her thing.
No understanding of caws and effect.
Or cawsality.
She lives by the precawtionary principle.
Voters in Minnesota's Twin Cities will vote on rent control ballot initiatives in local elections today.
Let's see how much voters there understand economics.
we know the answer. It approaches 0
Democrats sure love their Czars.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/biden-admin-to-add-a-climate-policy-czar-to-u-s-military-while-china-builds-hypersonic-missiles-report
Glad we are tackling climate with the military instead of worrying about other things.
There is a reason places where Team D dominates gets called 'The People's Republic of [fill in the blank]'. 🙂
My beloved wife puts it more simply: They are communists.
Technically, they are fascists; they do not insist on state ownership of the means of production, just total control through regulation of corporations.
There is news that Babylon 5 is being re-booted, and that got me thinking about one of the characters in that series, Londo Mollari. He is the diplomat from a major empire that is on the decline. It was recently kicked off a planet it had occupied for hundreds of years, and is still coming to grips with its irrelevance.
While I found much of B5 to be a bit ham-handed and sloppy, it did have some poignant moments. One is when Londo tells the story of finding a soldier standing guard in the middle of a quad on his home planet. He spent some time trying to figure out why this soldier was posted in this odd spot. Turns out, some time in the past, a princess had found a flower growing there and ordered a soldier to stand over it, and prevent it being trampled. For decades hence, a guard was posted there- not out of nostalgia or tradition, but because the empire had gotten so big and bureaucratic to notice that it wasn't needed any more.
B5 was largely an Arthurian allegory (told over and over again in a beat you over the head style), and the Centauri played the part of the old Roman Empire. But it is alarming how we increasingly seem to look like them.
I cannot imagine this reboot working. Everything has to be "updated", which means every character must be diverse, every story like about racism and misogyny, and every allegory stripped out and replaced with just saying it directly in a speech.
Tweet thread from JMS. Highlight...
So we will not be retelling the same story in the same way because of what Heraclitus said about the river. There would be no fun and no surprises. Better to go the way of Westworld or Battlestar Galactica where you take the original elements that are evergreens and put them in a blender with a ton of new, challenging ideas, to create something fresh yet familiar. To those asking why not just do a continuation, for a network series like this, it can’t be done because over half our cast are still stubbornly on the other side of the Rim
Could easily become Wokelon 5...we'll see. Can't be as bad as Discovery though.
"Ton of new, challenging ideas..." Uh-huh. I know exactly what that means.
You all can't say you weren't warned. No crying when this inevitably turns into a woke pile of shit. If that's not redundant.
it 100% will be too woke to stomach, no chance of anything else.
Every alien species advanced and androgynous.
Totally agree. When they write glowingly about BSG, I start scratching my head.
BSG had great cinematography. A pretty decent first season. And some great actors. It also had no allegiance to any themes- whether the original series or its own themes that it started with. The writers got big heads after their "brave" stand against the Iraq war, and they could never figure out exactly what they wanted the actual plot to be. By the series end, characters were just wind-up dolls- they had no agency or motivations, just doing what they did because it was convenient for the script.
Unfortunately, BSG came during a vacuum in good Sci Fi programming. The long run series- Enterprise, Stargate and Andromeda were past their Use-By date, losing their leads and losing their ways. BSG brought the typical "We have met the enemy, and they are us" post-modern rejection of your standard Space Opera format. That made it fresh, but it didn't make it good.
Even more unfortunate was that studios learned all the wrong lessons from BSG. Ratings in the show were driven solely by the cliff hangers they would deliver at the end of the series, not their woke message- as you can see by the tanking of its spin-off series. The only season with ratings growth was the final season, when they promised to answer all the questions from the first season (and failed to follow through).
(and failed to follow through)
In spectacular fashion...so much so that I'll never give any of my time to other Ronald Moore related projects.
FWIW there's one thing the military never has a shortage of, regardless of budget etc.: useless flag officers who need something to do.
Join the airforce, do cool things like guard an empty shed, or sweep an empty hanger
Ha, I joined the Navy and did cool things like scraping rust off of an old cruiser.
That came from a lab partner I had in university. He said he was in the air force for 6 years to pay for tuition. I asked him what he did, those were his two jobs
The Air Force is run by zipper-suited Sun Gods, and it shows. If you're not flying, or helping those that do fly, it's not great. So I am told.
Though at least the physical plant/working conditions, and the eye candy, are probably the best among the five services.
My service was back in the 70s and 80s, but in that day at least the eye candy in the Air Force was definitely the best.
McAuliffe's series of gaffes, including saying that parents shouldn't tell teachers what to teach, have helped put Republican Glenn Youngkin ahead in some recent polls.
I'm confident McAuliffe's recent brilliant Lincoln Project stunts will put him over the top.
Over/under on this election being “fortified”?
This election and every other election. The ballot box has ceased to be a viable option.
Tomorrow when you ask if there actually are 18 million voters in Virginia, someone will call you a racist.
And then Ken Shultz will arrive to pick his nose and wipe it on the walls in the form of telling us how the midterms are a-gonna git those dastardly democrats whose political officers control the entire election process, from procurement of fraudulent voting machines to order a million mail-in ballots less than a week before an election in a jurisdiction with only half a million voters.
We'z gunna git 'um gud this time boyz!
Fuck off sarcasmic, you mute-evading piece of shit.
Dee's never going to sleep with you no matter how hard you troll and harass Ken.
Oh Tulpa, never mind.
You know, I never understood your hostility to Ken. He's hesitant and conventional, but those aren't necessarily faults.
There was already a story of over 1.2 million mail in ballots from the bluest areas in the coffers. It is fortified.
10+ person families who live in empty lots close to the post office lean Democrat. They don't even have a house, do you expect them to be able to get ID much less drive themselves to the polling place? Don't be silly.
And when thousands of double voters and 100% advanced stage dementia nursing home voting happens again, nothing will be done.
But it will somehow be different in The Next Election.
I'm saving swallowing the black pill on this until November 2022. If the Globetrotters win again, then...well we'll know where we are, won't we?
Best analogy ever. This election is more fixed then a globetrotters/generals game
I'm pretty sure where we are, but 2022 will be the clincher.
I believe Fairfax County, which is the shitlibbiest county in the state, was looking to remove SSNs from the mail-ballots, in order to make it harder to authenticate the vote.
It's going to be like a lot of recent VA races, where Fairfax holds out their counts until they know how many votes they need to make it a respectable win. If the red counties were run by partisans in the same way that Fairfax is, they'd play chicken with them by claiming "irregularities" and draw out the vote counts indefinitely until Fairfax caves and turns their ballots in.
Just for the record, McAuliffe is openly racist. He has publicly called for using skin color in hiring teachers.
That's not racism; that's antiracism!
If you are against spending 3.5T for government wish lists youre racist, mysoginist, and basically Hitler.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/house/cori-bush-rips-joe-manchin-for-anti-black-anti-child-anti-woman-and-anti-immigrant-opposition-to-spending-bill
Only Hitler would object to governments spending vast amounts on its wish lists. Contrary to the history books, he was very parsimonious or something.
Under Murphy, New Jersey had one of the highest COVID death rates and some of the country's strictest lockdown policies.
Jerskeyites know that was Trump's fault. Or maybe New York's.
It was NY's fault in a manner of speaking. Murphy was copycatting everything Cuomo did, because he's walking case study in failing upward.
Yep. Without NJ being so close to NYC, they would have been down the list a little.
"McAuliffe's series of gaffes, including saying that parents shouldn't tell teachers what to teach, have helped put Republican Glenn Youngkin ahead in some recent polls."
LOL
Like it's a "gaffe" to embrace the chemjeff position that CRT absolutely belongs in public schools.
McAuliffe will win.
Did Jeffy ever show up to comment on the pedo comic book story yesterday? Last I checked he conveniently ignored it, so that if it’s brought up in the future he can play dumb.
Maybe he was too busy masturbating to it.
Or eating it.
White Mike is asking for proof of schools segregating in the other thread.
Those two clowns live in complete denial of facts.
He's the Dollar General's garbage dumpster version of Baghdad Bob. Every word out of its worthless mouth is a lie, and it will never admit to anything else.
"...he can play dumb."
Not "playing".
He can be plenty dumb on accident, but he (and Dee) have this trick where they will completely ignore any stories or discussions that contradict their narratives, only to ask for a cite a week later.
Since they are quite dumb, and they both do it, I’m assuming they didn’t come up with the tactic on their own, but it’s in their manual.
I've lost track: is the current position that CRT is wonderful, or that CRT doesn't exist except as a "dog whistle"?
According to recent chemjeff polemics; CRT is just helpful discussions on historical issues, and totally not reworked Nazi race theory. If you don't allow it, people somehow won't know about slavery.
That's the dumbest part of the whole debate to me. It's like, were you not taught that the civil war was over slavery? I'm pretty sure that's what everyone is taught in school (which is why everyone gets all grr when someone says "well actually...").
I was certainly taught about slavery, genocide of Native Americans, Jim Crow and the Civil Rights movement, racism, sexism, etc. Plus global cooling (heh that was the story back then). And this was in the 60s and 70s in a small very white town in "flyover country".
It was suburbia in the 90's for me, but this exactly.
90's for me too, and exactly.
OSHA was directed to create a rule to force employers to implement vaccine mandates. Asecindary directive from OSHA is telling business to hide adverse reactions to the mandated shots.
https://justthenews.com/government/federal-agencies/feds-suspend-requirement-report-covid-vaccine-side-effects-employer
You’re just a Republican shill pushing false narratives!!1!1!1! - White Mike
I love when him and Jeff attack Solomons site. They have the dig in tab on the article with the primary sources they refuse to read.
I wonder how our fifty-centers are going to argue for it?
1. OSHA isn’t really telling businesses to hide adverse reactions to the vaccine…
What’s 2? C’mon man, don’t leave us hanging!
Seriously R Mac, It's been four hours and I need to get back to work.
2. A vaccine mandate for the workplace isn't really work related. Getting vaccinated is a personal choice, after all.
Thank's Chuck. We needed someone to break the unrelenting anticipation.
3. Profit
The Biden administration is expected to announce new rules limiting methane emissions.
This one is too easy.
Permit the Maestro.
Political dirty trickster and Donald Trump supporter Roger Stone has said he might try to run for Florida governor on the Libertarian Party ticket if current Gov. Ron DeSantis doesn't order an audit of the 2020 election.
I can think of few things as fitting.
How so? Why would the Florida LP ever nominate him?
Why did the national LP nominate Bill Weld?
Bob Barr would like some love here.
"In unrelated news, a new report finds that low- and middle-income workers can't afford to live in San Francisco."
That's by design. San Francisco is a Democratic city in a Democratic state. And the modern Democratic Party has outright contempt for the working class.
#OBLsFirstLaw
The political trial of Rittenhouse has begun. Despite video of evidence that virtually every firearms lawyer states shows self defense, the trial has murder charges. The juror are already discussing the fear they feel for a wrong conviction just like against Chauvin
One said that no matter the verdict, “half the country will be up in arms about it.”
— Another said, “I’m more afraid of our community and the outsiders of our community that are coming in… It just brings us back to August (2020).” She also said she was “potentially” afraid of reliving riots depending on the verdict.
— A third said it was “scary” to be on a case like this one, specifically citing “riots” and wondering aloud, “Am I gonna get home safe?”
https://thefederalist.com/2021/11/02/potential-jurors-in-the-kyle-rittenhouse-trial-are-scared-and-they-have-every-reason-to-be/
No doubt the Democrats will openly declare that threatening the jurors is protected by the First Amendment. I suppose it's nice to find something in the Bill of Rights they support.
Journalists, who have less sides than white Mike or sarcasmic, are calling the secret service over lets go Brandon stamped goods.
https://thefederalist.com/2021/11/01/hysterical-nbc-journo-calls-secret-service-over-lets-go-brandon-merch/
A gaggle of teenage boys was chanting it up and down the block as the trick or treated.
The liberals in our group were not amused.
You need to change groups.
These chants are insulting their religion/god/faith.
Akin to drawing an image of Muhammed. `
Yep.
What if one were to draw an image of Mohammed fucking Joe Biden? But, you know, slow and sexy, not violent at all.
Jeffy would support it being in the middle school library?
Probably just egging on their friend to participate in Halloween mischief.
Make haste, Brandon! Make haste!
He just needs to convince his son to identify as a Kamala.
#rezista
Enemies of the people.
The new guidance tells contractors to provide "counseling and education" to employees who refuse the vaccine "followed by additional disciplinary measures", reports Roll Call.
How is there no outrage about this statement above?? That is fucking scary. Government forcing companies to indoctrinate their employees???
Is reason fully against these mandates yet? Or will you continue to pretend these companies are making these decisions freely??
Well, after all, to be sure, it's not like there is a US Constitution prohibits forced speech.
I'll link the guidance letter being forced on my company tomorrow. Forget the .gov site. It is terrible.
As long as website owners are free to take down the posts they disagree with after they agreed to publish them, free speech is ensured.
If by "fully against" you mean "fully in favor of and vociferously defending on a daily basis" then sure.
Love the way we call threats and coercion guidance these days.
The new guidance tells contractors to provide "counseling and education" to employees who refuse the vaccine "followed by additional disciplinary measures"
Wouldn't "disciplinary measures" *first* better soften up the employees for "counseling and education"?
What if the holdouts are better educated on the subject than some guy in the HR department?
Don't worry, "don't be evil" Google is still helping the CCP identify and kill political dissidents, and developing their social credit score
To say what should go without saying; Google officially gave up on that bit of propaganda years ago.
Having "don't be evil" as a motto is itself saying what should go without saying.
You know you're in deep if you decided that you can't keep a promise not to be evil.
To borrow from Chris Rock: Tech Companies always some credit for shit they supposed to do. Tech companies will brag about shit that a normal company just does.
"We're not evil..."
You're not SUPPOSED to be evil. You want a medal for that?
Fascism is libertarian now. What don't you get???
Clinton alum Joe Lockhart eloquently captures the insidious nature of the anti-Biden slur "Let's go Brandon":
You know who also had coded statements like Brandon? ISIS, the Klan, Nazi's...beginning to get the point?
#LibertariansForBiden
#LibertariansAgainstDisrespectingPoliticians
You mean that announcer was a secret Nazi plant?
It’s all starting to make sense now!
At least democrats were open about their anti trump violence with murders in the park, cut off heads in plays, chants of fuck trump, pussy hats. They didn't hide behind things like Anonymous.
It's all cool. The FBI and CIA had their backs, so they weren't "insurrectionists".
At a recent street fair in South Minneapolis, a male passerby silently gave Frey the middle finger as the mayor walked with his baby daughter, offering no explanation at all.
Obviously that passerby merely wants a "department of public safety".
I knew the Biden Era would be awesome. I just didn’t know it would be THIS awesome.
In 2021 Democrats have raised the minimum wage by: $0.00 / hour
In 2021 the 10 richest Americans have gained a combined: $373 billion
#InDefenseOfBillionaires
It's election day!
Yay. Woo hoo. I ain't voting. Fuck you Lucy, I ain't gonna kick the ball again. After watching election results be the inverse of my ballot for almost thirty years, I've just given up. Not worth the frustration and disappointment.
Sure, just sit it out and let Maine succumb to the rising influence of … well, I’m not sure what is going on in Maine politically … nobody does. 🙂
Chumby does. Pretty sure he's a Mainer. But he's got me on mute. You know, virtue signaling to Ken. Can't listen to someone who takes people's words to their logical conclusion. Only a progressive would do that, right?
Two assholes who need a room.
Lol.
More “ideas”
"But he's got me on mute. You know, virtue signaling to Ken. Can't listen to someone who takes people's words to their logical conclusion. Only a progressive would do that, right?"
Oh I love this.
This is gorgeous... sarcasmic, the guy who muted dozens and dozens of people and posts enemies lists about the people he's muted each day, complains about being muted for trolling as if it's Chumby's fault.
If hypocrisy was worn like clothing, sarcasmic would be headlining fashion week in Paris.
Wait....isn't ABC still demanding to be muted by Sarcasmic. I swear, that whole interaction between Sarcasmic and ABC was strange, and fucking hilarious.
I granted him his wish. Why he wanted it I don't know. Guess he's in solidarity with the trolls.
Well let's see. You relentless defend and now agree 100% on every single issue with shreek, the disgusting pedophile troll who posted kiddie porn links and got himself banned and whom you used to mock mercilessly for welching on his bets. And ABC.... uh............ doesn't spend 12-16 hours a day 7 days a week defending Joe Biden. Yep, sounds like he's definitely the troll stalwart in this scenario.
Hi Tulpa!
Hi Sqrsly!
Unlike you I don't operate multiple sockpuppet accounts you autistic fucking retard.
You're crying because you were muted? LOL! And it's virtuous to mute you? LOLLOL?
Everything is so terrible and unfair, mike. The details don’t matter.
"The Biden administration is pressing ahead with requiring workers to get their COVID jab or potentially lose their job"
Have you guys seen the following?
https://www.texastribune.org/2021/10/11/texas-greg-abbott-covid-19-vaccine-mandate/
How could Governor Abbott have known that Biden would introduce vaccine mandates way back in October? It's like he's prescient or something. Is he from the future?!
I suspect he knew Biden's mandates were coming the same way everyone else who isn't willfully obtuse knew they were coming--because Biden told us that's what he would do, and it's consistent with his own ideology and his party's ideology.
For any progressives who may be reading this and are still thinking it was crazy for Abbott to preemptively counter a vaccine mandate that had happened yet, the time to buy auto insurance isn't after you've had an accident; the time to buy a fire extinguisher isn't after your house catches on fire, and the time to counter what Biden is about to do isn't necessarily after he does it.
If I were a campaign manager for Abbott or other governors who might be interested in running for president in 2024, I might consider telling them to push a law prohibiting local law enforcement in their state from cooperating with the FBI to investigate parents for opposing their local school boards.
Is that hypocritical in relation to conservatives denouncing some sanctuary states and cities from cooperating with Homeland Security to deport illegal aliens? Maybe, but from a presidential primary campaign perspective, you want the news media to accuse you of trying to defend concerned parents from the FBI, and you want the media to be blatantly hypocritical in regards to their own defense of sanctuary states and cities, too.
P.S. If cities and states aren't compelled by the federal government to enforce federal laws on immigration because of federalism, they shouldn't be compelled to help the FBI target parents for opposing their local school boards either.
LOL, you kept advancing a theory that Biden wouldn’t go though with the OSHA mandate.
And then you dropped that line of punditry like a hot potato when Abbott announced his mandate, because the narrative didn’t work anymore for your meta purpose of owning the progressives.
You do that all the time: talk out of both sides of your mouth, and drop narratives. For example, you went on and on about how Biden was in OAC’s back pocket, then dropped that narrative when it turned out that she doesn’t have as much influence over the Democratic Party as you thought. Maybe just give up on all the verbose punditry.
Ken has given up on being honest. Anyone who points it out is labeled a troll and muted. He's a partisan shill. Nothing more.
Still two assholes in need of a room.
Mike's flat out lying and we have the quotes here to prove it, but you're saying Ken is dishonest?
Forget fishing trip, I think you might be trying to fuck him.
Mike posts nothing of value. Reason gave you a mute button.
Yeah if Ken got any more dishonest and pathetic he'd publicly announce every single person he's muted 10-40 times per day whilst simultaneously compulsively replying to their posts like a drunken retard.
That's sounds startlingly familiar. Who does that again?... hmm... rhymes with spasmodic I believe...
LOL, you're almost as obsessed with Ken as you are with your kids' skin color.
Ken is an optimist who doesn't fully understand how cancerous and evil you progressives are
"And then you dropped that line of punditry like a hot potato"
For the people on the thread, Mike is lying and projecting.
https://reason.com/2021/09/09/california-is-set-to-outlaw-unannounced-condom-removal/?comments=true#comment-9091773
That is Mike pretending that he would "never look to Rolling Stone" for news, after spending the entire weekend spreading their terrible Ivermectin story.
Mike is not here to have a conversation. His sole purpose is to derail conversation threads. He is even pretending to oppose Vaccine mandates now, despite constantly shilling for them in the past. Like the Rolling Stone article above, that is his whole schtick- lying about his positions and the positions of people he disagrees with, and hoping that no one fact checks him.
Cite?
Lol
I've never seen Ken walk back that position. And I think Ken is a drooling retard. You're just flat out lying here. Let's also just dismiss the fact that almost the entirety of Biden's 3.5 trillion dollar "social spending" bill is guided directly by policy proposals set forth by the think tanks and public intellectuals whom AOC regurgitates. Seems like she's got the party by the balls to me.
Is that hypocritical in relation to conservatives denouncing some sanctuary states and cities from cooperating with Homeland Security to deport illegal aliens? Maybe
Easy enough to circle around. If illegal immigrants didn't break any laws in coming here then parents exercising control over their children's education didn't either. Bringing immigrant children into the country and insisting only the government has control over their education is enslaving them.
The other difference is that the state government in question wouldn't be refusing to enforce the law. If a parent makes a violent threat or perpetrates violence against somebody, that's still a crime that can be handled by local police. We're not talking about letting anybody get away with anything. We're just saying that when drunk drivers kill somebody, there's no need for the FBI's anti-terrorism task force to get involved. They've been handling these situations themselves since they became a state.
I am about to leave my mandate of no mandates state of Texas to travel to mandate it all Oregon. My husband is predicting at least three rants, not counting every time I grumble about having to wear a mask. I really look forward to having them complain about us Texans defying national laws while I walk past the weed dispensary.
I had to travel to Oregon a few weeks ago. I was surprised that they had an outdoor mask mandate, which is just ridiculous.
“I was surprised that they had an outdoor mask mandate,”
Of course you were.
Despite you having supported outdoor mask mandates for the past 22 months.
Oregon is a beautiful state for people who are into the outdoors--and I mean the whole thing. In season, the most beautiful beaches are in Oregon, and they have some of the best hiking trails in the country. Eastern Oregon is like a completely different continent in terms of its climate and topography. And if you don't talk about politics, you may find people . . . tolerable.
I've been known to ride my motorcycle to the Shakespeare festival in Ashland on longer motorcycle trips through the mountains and down the coast. It's sort of like Austin would have been--before the homeless and the progressives started ruining everything. There are places like Oregon all over the South--Asheville, NC and Eureka Springs, Arkansas come to mind.
I have been before when some family lived there. We are doing a lot of hiking. In an effort to avoid at least one rant, I have preemptively packed plastic straws.
LOL
Smart
Jesus, why? Family?
As Ken says though, it is a pretty state. The Willamette (damnit) has some lovely wines. Crater Lake is gorgeous. Though bring your DEET.
The factory that is building our truck camper is there and my hubby wants to tour it. Other than that a lot of hiking and looking at waterfalls which are my favorite. I must admit I am not sure why he scheduled it for this time of year. It is beautiful and 75 degrees here in Houston today. It is raining and 52 in Portland.
Have you seen Eagle Creek trail?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5DzGrDp5Xw
It takes you behind a waterfall.
Silver Falls state park has multiple waterfalls and doesn't have you hiking up the side of a damn mountain. Anything in the gorge is exhausting. I swear some of those trails are uphill coming and going.
The backside of water. Or as we skippers like to say, 02H.
Backwards would be OH2. Unless of course, White Mike thinks forwards is HO2.
Do you see a blank space? I don't see a blank space. Saving this one for posterity.
Prime Oregon visiting weather is in August.
It is a complete crapshoot in the Pacific NW. 2013 in Oregon was the most beautiful November of my entire life.
And by happy accident, that's about when I start utterly detesting the fucking swamp-adjacent-to-Satan's-nutsack that is the city of Houston.
Congrats on the truck camper! Sounds like a lot of fun. But yeah, it's been chamber of commerce weather here lately. About time.
I think Silver Falls was the one we visited, when we visited Oregon/Washington 20 some odd years ago. Short uphill walk, 150' waterfall? It was pretty.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-10154631/SpaceXs-leaky-toilet-force-astronauts-wear-undergarments-return-trip-ISS.html
Well, that stinks.
Shatner was probably way ahead of the curve on wearing special undergarments into space.
Astronauts have been wearing Depends since the first Apollo missions.
Captain Kirk is Mormon? News to me. He has a fondness for cigars.
I suppose I walked right into that one. Hmm, now I’m curious if there have been any LDS astronauts…
And here you go:
https://www.ldsliving.com/mormons-in-space-4-fascinating-firsts/s/87810
I’m assuming that the public safety personnel will not be carrying weapons. They will use their words.
Wonder how many libs will sign up for that.
It will be fun to watch! (from afar anyway)
Words are violence
The price of a box of hollow-pointless words has increased by 300% on average, despite progressives' continued efforts to keep production at a peak.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-10153901/Women-strip-lace-teddies-nipple-pasties-annual-Lingerie-Fighting-Championships.html
Now THAT'S entertainment!
Ideas
sarcasmic is a super serial person whose ideas are very very serious and important. Except when he's Jon Stewart and it's all for a larf.
Hi Tulpa!
Hi Sqrsly! It's good to see you are still autistically screeching because your inability to discern normal human language and social cues leaves you confused and impotently engraged! It's too bad your poor baby daughter had to take the brunt of your perverted frustrations for so many years, but thankfully that's in the past and she lives with her mother now while you try to solicit gay sex in the men's room of a shitty 80s industrial rock band's Indian Casino tour.
The smurfs are out in force at the polls where I live (Alexandria). I voted early am tempted to try voting twice for Youngkin, but I am not a smurf so that’s out of the question.
No partisan signaling there.
I thought this was a libertarian website. Sigh.
"No partisan signaling there."
Lying asshole needs to fuck off and die.
Imagine. A libertarian being against CRT, mandates, higher taxes, etc. God forbid. Why can't they vote straight ticket blue like you.
There's no such things as libertarians. There are Republicans and leftists. That's it. And since libertarians aren't Republicans, that means they're leftists. Don't you know anything?
There's no such thing as a sarc post which is not a lie.
Haha, good one sarc! You’re by far the funniest commentator here.
Remember, sarcasmic totally isn't a Democrat or a lefty, just ask him. He's only simping for them because reasons.
There's no such things as libertarians. There are Democrats and Trumpistas. That's it. And since libertarians aren't Republicans, that means they're leftists. Don't you know anything?
See it's funny, because that's literally you for the last 5 years.
The magazine is Libertarian; the commenters are mostly libertarians. Those of us in blue states are going to be GOP cheerleaders out of necessity.
The proper place for libertarians is always in opposition to the government. The federal government is controlled by only one party. Now that the government and the Democratic party are one in the same thing, why wouldn't we oppose the Democratic party? In the name of bothsideism, are libertarians supposed to stop opposing the government because it's controlled by only one party?
That’s the proper place for anarcho-capitalist libertarians, but not for minarchist libertarians or classical liberal libertarians or moderate libertarians. I want good, small-scale governance not anarchy.
Kinda like what Biden's doing, right Mike?
White Mike also supports lots of "well-crafted regulations"... in a totally libertarian way of course.
https://reason.com/2020/12/18/the-bipartisan-push-to-gut-section-230-will-suppress-online-communication/#comment-8647905
"That’s the proper place for anarcho-capitalist libertarians, but not for minarchist libertarians or classical liberal libertarians or moderate libertarians."
For the benefit of the thread, this is a perfect example of Mike's perfidy.
He is pretending to be reasonable. "Sure, maybe in some nuanced ways, that is accurate, but I'm just offering a counter point as someone who is TOTALLY LIKE YOU, but slightly different."
Really analyze that line. Mike is saying that Minarchists wouldn't oppose the ruling government. That is nonsense on skates. Unless the existing government were stripped down to the barest essentials, Minarchists would always find themselves in opposition with the standing government, because the standing government wouldn't be Minarchist.
This is Mike's schtick. He pretends that he is defending libertarian values, when his purpose in this discussion IS TO DEFEND THE DEMOCRATS. He is suggesting that only "anarcho-libertarian" people would oppose the sitting government and that everyone else should be defending the Dems.
It is absurd, but that is Mike for you. He will lie to your face to sound reasonable and gas light you about it in a week.
https://reason.com/2021/09/09/california-is-set-to-outlaw-unannounced-condom-removal/?comments=true#comment-9091773
That is Mike insisting that he “would never look to Rolling Stone” for news, after spreading their bogus ivermectin story only days earlier.
Are you seriously trying to argue that the current government, at any level, is minarchist?
That's a bold move.
Isn't it amazing. Sometimes their arguments are just jaw-dropping.
Another Ken Shultz narrative waffle: half the time you talk about how the government has been permanently taken over by Democrats, and the other half you predict they will crash and burn in the next midterms.
Ken has abandoned all principles he may have had and become a mouthpiece for the Republican Party.
Though inaccurate about Ken, that's a weirdly appropriate description of your intellectual journey in the other direction.
White Mike however has always been a Democratic Party shill.
That's not a waffle. That's a fact and a hope.
The proper place for libertarians is always in opposition to the government. The federal government is controlled by only one party.
The federal government, many state governments, and a majority of the most populous city governments. At all levels, increasing numbers of various independent people will increasingly unite behind non-left parties, Republicans being the largest and most visible.
sarc and Laursen will proceed to demonize their dualism, pretend like beating up and dividing the patsies is how you affect real change and ride their 'No enemies to the left.' horse straight to hell.
As opposed to what? You guys blindly supporting authoritarian Republicans because it's better than to rule by authoritarians than by totalitarian Democrats?
I'm sorry, but when given a choice between authoritarians and totalitarians, I choose none of the above.
Maybe you think it's pragmatic to vote for these slavers instead of those slavers. I refuse to vote for slavers.
where's my edit button?
You got the edit button you voted for.
I don't vote.
Right.
Now why would someone accuse me of being a liar about voting? Ohhhhh. So you can tell me how I voted and then call me a liar when I say you're wrong!
That's what JA and ML do. m.c, you're becoming a troll. Please stop or I'll have to mute you too. I don't want to because you make good points. But if you're gonna virtue signal to the girls, I'm going to have to ignore you.
Hey mad, can you ask sarc exactly how many people he’s muted before he mutes you?
Nobody did that you stupid prick. Stop wallowing in your persecution complex and self pity, spend 8-10 hours sobering up, and try reading for comprehension for the first time in your worthless life.
Oh and good job skirting my point that making the "pragmatic" choice to vote for the authoritarians instead of the totalitarians is still voting for tyrants and slavers.
Except that Trump was never authoritarian. At worst he was a big-mouthed whiner. The GOPe like the Bushies, Romney and McCain had tendencies but nothing like what the Democrats are doing right now.
You have to be a moron or a monster to look at the last 9 months and pretend it's the same.
Sarc's Mom: I'm home from the grocery store!
Sarc: Did you get cookies?
Sarc's Mom: You didn't ask for cookies. We have a list. You can write anything you want on it, and you didn't write anything down.
Sarc: So if I write down that I know best and I should be in charge of the household, I'll get it?
Sarc's Mom: Oh, sweetie. Let's worry about getting cookies on the list first and then we'll see. After all, you were in charge of the house when you lived with your wife and we've all seen how that turned out.
Is getting muted by me a badge of honor now?
"If I make a bunch of personal attacks against sarc while ignoring what he says and accusing him of shit he never said nor did, I can be muted like JesseAz, Mother's Lament, and the rest of the trolls who add nothing to conversations! Yay me!"
Is that what's happening m.c?
I chuckled heartily.
...but is cookies code for a bottle of whisky?
IRL, sarc's mom would be heading back out and sporting a black eye at the end of the conversation.
"Is getting muted by me a badge of honor now?"
Everyone else is the problem, never poor sarcasmic. He's an innocent little lamb.
LMAO!
But on a sad note, sarc isn’t including me by name on his list anymore, only Jesse and ML.
If it makes you feel any better, he has never muted anyone and obsessively reads all of the comments from the people he's supposed blacklisted. Then in drunken fits of self-pitying rage he compulsively replies to them for hours at a time before announcing the next day that he's had them muted for months.
"I'm sorry, but when given a choice between authoritarians and totalitarians, I choose none of the above."
With all due respect Sarc, that is bullshit. Your choice is to pick a fight with Ken every chance you get. You don't even read what he is saying any more, leading to you making some terrible arguments the last couple of days.
Here is a hint: when you find yourself waiting to get "Amens" from Mike Laursen, the lying-ist, gas-lighting, concern troll that Reason has ever seen, something is broken.
No Overt, it's not bullshit. Before I pointed it out to him, Ken was arguing that Republicans are "mere" authoritarians while Democrats are totalitarians, and the only choice for libertarians is Republicans. Well I substituted "authoritarian" for "Republican" which is logically true if Republicans are authoritarians, and said that voting Republican is voting authoritarian. Well Ken freaked out. That's not what he meant! He never meant to say "vote authoritarian!" except that's what he was doing.
Since I pointed that out he ceased to call Republicans authoritarians, and muted me.
But he was right the first time. Republicans are authoritarians, and Democrats are totalitarians. Sure living under authoritarians is less-bad than living under totalitarians, but it's still living under slavers.
I refuse to support authoritarians, and I refuse to support totalitarians. A lesser of two evils is still evil.
"But he was right the first time. Republicans are authoritarians, and Democrats are totalitarians."
I'm not talking about that argument. You make that argument periodically, and that is fine with me. I even tend to agree. But that is not what I am talking about.
I am talking about how you aren't satisfied to make that argument- you are just interested in disagreeing with whatever argument Ken makes.
https://reason.com/2021/10/31/the-kinks-vs-the-people-in-grey/?comments=true#comment-9185551
And it is just absolutely bizarre because Ken is one of the few of the "Team Red" people who will actually engage in good faith. But maybe that is what you dislike? You would rather see a bunch of snarky, gas lighting Team Blue than Ken's long screeds?
Do you really think these comments would be better if there were more Kens or more Mikes?
OMG you're going to pick on that of all comments?
I wrote it with a smile and would say it to his face if given the opportunity, because it's a generational joke. Every generation thinks the next generation's music sucks.
Which is why I listen to college radio, because the kids keep making some wild shit.
He is broken, you're not going to get through to him Overt. His only goal here is to attack team red at this point, even if it means joining Jeff and Mike. He has no principles.
He boldly made the 'no true libertarian' argument against everybody except for those 2 people.
I don’t vote, and I don’t like team red either. But I don’t think they’re authoritarians. Not after what I’ve seen lately.
I’ll admit red is better than blue without actually supporting them with a vote. For some reason you seem to like blue better. Just admit it and get it over with.
Here's a hint: I'm not waiting on "Amens" from anyone. Unlike the conservative virtue signalers in these here comments.
Lying fuck. You've been trying to get into Dee's pants all week.
That is absurd. Look at your posting with Mike the last 3 or 4 days. You are absolutely tripping over yourselves with the, "Get a load of these guys, amiright?" "Yeah you are right man!" You guys do it over and over again.
On the one had we have Ken whose position about choosing the lesser weevil is risable. And yet he will actually attempt logical arguments. And we have Mike who literally lies about what positions he had 2 days previous. And who are you chumming around with? The gas lighter.
Just admit it- you aren't interested in real conversation despite your protestations to the contrary. If the trumpaloos were on here being little bitches to Ken, you'd be right there with them and Mike sniping along...just like you've been doing in earnest the last few days.
It's a free country and all- do what you want. But I'm gonna call you out on it when you nod sagely with Mike the Gaslight about wishing there were better conversation here. Because every opportunity you have to discourage it, you take.
Chumming around with? I don't know what that means. I like some of his jokes. The things that offend people? Those are jokes. And some of them are funny.
This from the pearl clutching churchlady who had a histrionic bitch fit about people saying "fuck Joe Biden".
LOL. That's why you have stated that chemjeff and White Mike are literally the only non-Trumpista trolls left on this site and feel the need to publicly announce your mute-ilst despite compulsively replying to every post written by those supposedly on said list?
Dee tells jokes?
Compulsively calling people 'traitor' for an entire week and then going on for months about bears spraying people with fire extinguishers is pretty fucking funny. White Mike is the joke.
My current favorite is the way he defends the convicted child molester, the 'semi-pro' skateboarder (jobless leech) and murderous 'medic' (jobless 26 year old liberal arts undergrad (leech)) that Rittenhouse shot.
In Dee’a defense, they were assaulting a white kid and not doing something bad like peacefully trespassing at the Capitol.
Amen!
Yeah having a criminal record that prohibits you from voting makes that pretty easy. Oh but I'm sure I'm lying all about the multiple times you've openly discussed your criminal record while whinging about your ex while piss drunk at 9 AM. You just donate 12-16 hours a day 7 days per week of your pathetic, worthless life shilling for one political party exclusively.
"The proper place for libertarians is always in opposition to the government."
The proper place for Libertarians is in favor of an environment where a commitment to Liberty and the NAP can flourish. That might require some government, or some other assurances that contracts will be honored and private property + bodily integrity (the same, really) will be respected.
You don't want Anarchy. But on the plus side, you can be sure that anybody pushing anarchy is someone you can safely ignore.
Dee’s position is based on her belief that the current Democrat party is no worse than Republicans. Which is ludicrous.
She doesn't have beliefs, far as I can tell. She has feelings.
And the need to caw.
Oh, "she" is me, right?
Why again do you consider it an insult to call someone "she"? Maybe you should talk to a professional about that.
Because you’re Dee, bird.
You know it's not an insult. You know he thinks you're Dee sockpuppeting.
So stop stupidly pretending you're suddenly witnessing sexism, you phony.
For those that don't know or are new here, the person operating the Mike Laursen sock has been trolling here for quite some time under various monikers. Lately they have felt it their duty to chase Ken around the comments, harassing and trolling him.
They've even publicly declared as much, at one point asking the comments biggest shitposter for help:
Mike Laursen
September.18.2021 at 11:38 am
SQRLSY, can you cover for me today? In a typical day, I usually post a comment or two pointing out logical flaws, contradictions and partisanship in Ken’s essays, which he regards as examples of flawless logical thinking
Nobody said or suggested that. Why again do you infer that it's an insult to call someone "'she"? Maybe you should talk to a professional about that.
Caw! Caw!
Whatever. So much for logical, dispassionate Ken.
Caw of the wild.
I guess sarcasmic needs to parrot his viewpoint.
Wow clap, that is a sarcasmic level lie. "the magazine is libritarian"
The only people who don't think Reason is libertarian are people who only see Republicans and leftists. You know, partisan idiots. You know who you are.
Also, apparently, Reason is required not only to take the correct positions on every issue, but they also have to be really passionate about it. And they should do more condemning of people for having the wrong views.
Whenever Reason doesn't do an article about something, it means they have the most extreme leftists view on the subject. After all, if they didn't then they'd have done an article. Prove the article wouldn't have been leftist! You can't. That means Reason is leftist.
When a libertarian magazine habitually ignores some of the biggest libertarian issues in the Western world in the last 100 years, and instead focuses on trivial minutiae, you know something is up.
If you weren't a complete fucking retard and Mike a dishonest shill, you'd be upset about it too.
It’s all quite logical.
ITT: people are bad at proper nouns.
Reason is a pretty rabidly partisan magazine advancing the cause of an utterly ineffectual party.
Yup. It's heartbreaking when you read the old issues.
I realize most news and opinion outlets need a rich benefactor to make ends meet, but fuck Charles Koch for what he's done to Reason.
Reason stated they were done with libritarianism when they published their libritarian reasons against the first amendment
Wait, what?
Yes reason had an article called the libritarian argument against the first ammendment
Underton window. Attempting to move libertarians towards crony fascist progressivism.
libertarians generally prefer less communism and in the virginia race, the least communist candidate is obvious. Sorry.
Remember that Mike pretends that he is a libertarian when in fact he is here to fight the Lefty battles. He will appear middle of the road so he can concern troll with wild abandon. But don't mistake this for genuine honesty.
https://reason.com/2021/09/09/california-is-set-to-outlaw-unannounced-condom-removal/?comments=true#comment-9091773
That is Mike pretending to criticize Rolling Stone magazine a mere 2 days after flagrantly spreading their Ivermectin story around the comment sections. He is pretending that he has always been reasonable, and hoping that no one remembers the lies he was saying two days ago. That is his MO, and you would be well suited to avoid interacting with him in the future.
He wouldn't piss me off as much if he weren't so cheesily duplicitous about his intentions.
Your post highlights that.
Never vote twice. Either vote once, or 1000 times.
"Vote early, vote often"
And if you vote for Murphy or MacAuliffe, please vote only once...
Good luck Nick. The nation is watching.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10155011/Saudi-woman-36-relishes-role-firearms-trainer-attitudes-shift-conservative-kingdom.html
That's pretty cool.
The fascist mandate will coincide with a lot of weather-related work stoppages.
The economy is choking for lack of workers right now.
"[American Airlines] said it canceled 340 flights as of 11 a.m. ET on Monday, amounting to about 6% of its total flights. The airline scrubbed more than 1,900 flights over the weekend.
American said staffing shortages and bad weather—such as high winds in Dallas, where the carrier is based—drove the cancellations . . . . "
The latest cancellations from American follow a slew of problems for rival carriers in recent months. In August, Spirit Airlines Inc. said bad weather and staff shortages prompted it to cancel 2,800 flights over a 10-day period. Those cancellations cost Spirit about $50 million. And last month, Southwest Airlines Co. canceled about 2,000 flights, which resulted in a $75 million loss. The airline at the time blamed bad weather in Florida and thin staffing that made it difficult to recover.
----WSJ
https://www.wsj.com/articles/american-airlines-cancels-hundreds-of-more-flights-11635784958?
That's just one industry. The bottlenecks and supply chain problems we're seeing are also about staffing shortages. Now is not the right time to arbitrarily decide to make a quarter of the population (or so) ineligible for employment.
Meanwhile, Biden is pushing an expansion of entitlement programs and the creation of new ones. Those programs are income restricted. By paying people not to be employed, aren't they effectively paying people not to be vaccinated? If you prefer to be unemployed rather than vaccinated, seems like the Biden administration is pushing to compensate you to do that in the budget reconciliation bill.
Seems like a good time to allow more immigration, then.
Bitch, the ones already here haven't stepped up to the plate, what makes your stupid ass think bringing in the other half of the world will accomplish that?
Hahahahahahaha
God damn, are you such a prick you don't know Ken's stance on immigration after how many years here?
She isn't smart enough to understand my open borders position, but she probably isn't smart enough to understand that I support a constitutionally ratified open border treaty with Mexico either.
“She” is me, right? Am I supposed to feel insulted because you called me a female?
I wasn’t even remarking on you, or your views on immigration, in my comment above. It isn’t always ahoy r you.
I was making a general statement that it would Ben good to increase immigration when there’s a huge labor shortage.
Yeah we need an army of Spanish-and-English-illiterate Honduran and Mexican surgeons, medical personnel and truck drivers.
Notice here that Mike doesn't want to condemn the Mandates here...he wants to change the discussion into an argument about Immigration.
That is because Mike isn't here to have a discussion. Mike is here to shill for the left. In other places he will pretend to oppose mandates, but here, when Ken makes a poignant point, Mike wants us arguing about Immigration, as if opening the borders will solve a fucking PILOT shortage.
Like Southwest two weeks ago, American Airlines refuses to acknowledge (as has most of the news media, including the WSJ) that Biden's vaccine mandate has prompted thousands of their employees (who didn't get the jab and/or oppose Biden's mandate) have called in sick to protest Biden's (and the airline's subsequent) totalitarian mandate.
Absolutely. I don't think Southwest wants to become a battlefield in the culture war, but it would be interesting to see what Southwest actually does (no matter what they say in the media). It's also interesting that, again, we're seeing the progressives line up in opposition to the labor unions. I don't think most unions are in favor of forcing their members to be vaccinated.
Progressive ideology is leading them to rail against their bread and butter union people, and that can't be good for the Democrats going forward. It's the same thing with the infrastructure deal. Doesn't Manchin represent the AFL-CIO as much as he represents West Virginia? The AFL-CIO wants that infrastructure bill. The progressives are biting the hand that feeds them.
Progressives are like berserkers. They fight anything , friend or foe, that gets in their way.
Didn’t stop the pipe fitters union from endorsing Joe.
That happened a year ago, when Democrats were claiming they opposed vaccine mandates.
True. But it’s still the progressives that got Joe to shut down Keystone, and the union that represents the people that lost their jobs should have seen that coming.
This is relatively new--progressives fighting against the unions. Joe Biden has been a union guy for 50 years. I don't think they were expecting this.
The problem is that the Unions are largely led by liberals at this point. They have been fighting alongside the democrats for years, to the point that it is very difficult for them to detach their interests from the Democrat political interests.
Which is the point of my response to Ken. The vaccine mandates might be new but (some) union leadership being more loyal to progressive causes than their dues paying members is not.
So I’ll believe unions coming out against progressives when I see it.
No doubt, the union leadership is far more into the Democrats than the membership, and my point is that between the progressives holding the infrastructure bill hostage and progressives insisting on mandates that the unions don't want, the progressives are cutting out their own support.
"Moderate Democrats" are mostly beholden to the unions. The Democratic party is not a monolith, and the progressives are really hurting the moderates with the unions. It's not that the unions will suddenly stop supporting the Democrats, but their support will be harder to sell.
Hell, the progressives are effectively at war with the police, too, and those are also union people. The progressives are backing the teachers' unions, I guess, so that's something. In the past, Democrats obstructing union interests would be like Republicans who opposed gun rights or supported abortion.
Unions are important for all kinds of things. Donations matter, but so do get out the vote campaigns, door to door canvassing, working phone banks, etc. Shitting all over the unions and what they want probably isn't the path to victory going into an election year. This is one of the reasons I expect the infrastructure bill to pass next year, even if the budget reconciliation bill fails. It's hard to believe that the Democrats will pull $1.2 trillion out of the unions' members pockets--just to spite moderate Democrats--in an election year. It's hard to believe they could be that stupid.
So far it looks like Southwest will be allowing exemptions for current employees, but mandating it for all future hires.
I consider that a win for the pilots, but a cultural loss.
"That's just one industry. The bottlenecks and supply chain problems we're seeing are also about staffing shortages. Now is not the right time to arbitrarily decide to make a quarter of the population (or so) ineligible for employment."
You cannot build back better (within their capabilities for "better") without tearing down first, what used to be there. None of this is unintentional, Ken.
Keep in mind that every breathless news about "overwhelmed ICUs" inevitably mentions as an aside that much of the shortage is caused by a shortage of available staff--who were either laid off last year, or were let go/quit this year because they didn't get one specific shot.
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/new-yorks-largest-healthcare-provider-fires-1400-unvaccinated-workers-2021-10-04/
Out of 76,000 employees. So, 1.8%.
One has to wonder about a health care worker who is anti-vaccine.
Fired without the vaccine vs fired because of the vaccine is the next died with covid vs died from covid.
"Biden says 'I guess I shouldn't apologize, but I do apologize' for the Trump administration's withdrawal from the Paris climate accord"
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-says-i-guess-i-shouldnt-apologize-but-i-do-apologize-for-the-trump-administrations-withdrawal-from-the-paris-climate-accord/ar-AAQc56X?ocid=uxbndlbing
Mike, sarc, Brandyshit, turd and other 'both sides' assholes hardest hit
Biden continues to embarrass the US in front of other nation's leaders who truly respected (but disliked) Trump.
Meanwhile, Chinese and Russian leaders didn't even bother to waste their time showing up in Rome last week or this week in Glasgow.
Trump was the best president of my lifetime when it comes to foreign policy. Sadly, i dont care much about foreign policy. But I have to hand it to him he was the best at it and in the face of withering criticism from the likes of that fool John Kerry.
And none of them are carbon neutral. If they actually cared about this they would be.
Don't worry. They will make everyone else poor enough to make up for their excess.
So I've joined the ken bandwagon of not responding to sarc. I won't mute him because his idiocy is so funny. I simply don't respond. He is begging for responses to go into victim mode already as he talks to his last non grey box in white Mike. Crying about both Ken and chumby muting him. If I thought it was tragic it would be a tragic comedy. But he brought it on himself.
Like many others incapable of honest argument, engagement with sarc is a mistake.
Scorn is appropriate.
But he has so many ideas…..
Mostly about how victimized he is!
Fair. That includes talking about the guy.
Jesus fuck, if even someone as benign as Chumby decides to mute you, maybe the problem is the "mean girls" you're always crying about.
*isn't
If you want to soar with the eagles don’t fly with the pigeons.
Stupid eagles always getting caught in my propeller, good thing the windmills are killing them all
You can do both. If you can fly.
"Voters in Minnesota's Twin Cities will vote on rent control ballot initiatives in local elections today."
Either one will reduce supply and drive up rents; guaranteed.
St. Paul is traditionally more conservative than Minneapolis. I would be surprised if their initiative passes.
Most conservative than Minneapolis--where isn't it more conservative than Minneapolis?
Latest year long study published by Lancet reveals that viral load is similar for vaccinated people as the unvaccinated.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext
"Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts. Host–virus interactions early in infection may shape the entire viral trajectory."
The real question is the likelihood of hospitalization.
The legitimate purpose of government is not to ensure that no one ever gets the flu.
The real questions are:
1. Likelihood of taking up an ICU bed. And using oxygen.
2. Likelihood of your body acting as an incubator for mutations of the virus.
3. Likelihood of spreading the virus more, because you are at full viral load for longer. As well as the network effects of several unvaccinated people infecting each other.
Those are your talking-points, not questions. Numbers 2 & 3 are also irrelevant because mutations aren't affected by duration but virulence which is highly variable in Covid regardless of immunization status.
Your University of CNN course in virology seems to have left you maleducated.
"1. Likelihood of taking up an ICU bed. And using oxygen."
This is hilarious from Mike, because he was one of the people spreading the fake Rolling Stone Ivermectin story. And then when it was debunked, he was caught pretending that he never trusted Rolling Stone in the first place.
https://reason.com/2021/09/09/california-is-set-to-outlaw-unannounced-condom-removal/?comments=true#comment-9091773
Mike isn't actually here to discuss facts any more. When you try to counter his points he will ignore you and then go find one of the other White Knights to get Amens from. Don't let him suck you into this concern troll nonsense.
You made up anti-scientific questions in order to dismiss a scientific study. Good work buddy.
Why would the virus need to mutate to infect you if you are unvaccinated?
And did you even read the article? It says that "Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts."
The legitimate purpose of government is not to force a panacea under the auspice that no one ever gets the flu.
So, by your own quote, the time spent with that viral load (i.e. the total area under the curve) is shorter with vaccination.
Right. So the vaccinated can still spread it, just for a couple less days.
And it doesn't matter if seasonal flu spreads, really. We've been subject to the seasonal flu since forever, and that isn't going away. The concern with Covid-19 is the high mortality rate and the high rate of hospitalization. If it weren't for those latter things, Covid-19 would just be another wave of the seasonal flu. We need to make sure we're focused on the stuff that matters, and a virus spreading--by itself--doesn't matter if it doesn't significantly raise the hospitalization rate and the mortality rate.
It's bullshit because the whole notion of 'viral load' is bullshit. It's a carryover from HIV which has a very known, quantifiable and controlled transmission profile. There is no question about how high your viral load has to get for you to transmit HIV to someone 6 ft. or further away. There is no question about how healthy the uninfected's immune system has to be to prevent an HIV infection.
People with concomitant lung or upper respiratory disease will spread it more pervasively with a lower load. People with healthier immune systems will tolerate higher loads better without transmitting it. Air (re)circulation renders the whole thing moot. Stand in a column of upflowing air at 5 mph and it doesn't matter if you're oozing several grams of the stuff an hour. Unless someone's directly above you in the air column (or down wind for lateral air flow), they're not going to contract it.
The amount of money-grabbing anti-science being done in the name of COVID is astounding.
The proportion of infected contacts was similar regardless of the index cases’ vaccination status. We observed transmission of the delta variant between fully vaccinated index cases and their fully vaccinated contacts in several households, confirmed by whole-genome sequencing. Peak viral load did not differ by vaccination status or variant type but did increase modestly with age.
Your 'viral load days' metric is deck chairs on the Titanic dumbass.
Anything that isn't perfect isn't worth doing at all.
Except Trump. He's way imperfect, but it's OK.
Sarcasmic is as usual lying about what was said, and you know that.
But as to your "point": When the choice is between the perfect and imperfect, pick the perfect. When the choice is between the imperfect and the demonic, pick the imperfect.
You know who else thought the human race should be perfect...
Did I say the human race should be perfect? Nope. Wow dude. You not only slayed a strawman but you managed to do a Godwin at the same time! You're almost up to JA and ML's level of dishonesty.
Poor sarc.
Woah, mad.casual touched a nerve. Look at the little troll fume.
When your only defense of an argument is claiming your opponent is demanding perfection, you have to retreat to simply fallacies. He started using this soon after Jeff/Mike did. It is a stupid argument. Note he isn't arguing the merits of the policies, but simply arguing that even if it helps 1 in a million it has merit. It is insanity. And he claims he isn't pro mandates.
Maybe stop posting stupid shit and people will stop replying to you with stupid shit?
What was stupid about that comment? The perfect is definitely the enemy of the good in these comments. Anything that isn't 100% effective is treated as if it is 0% effective. Am I wrong?
Yes.
Half the people that argue about the vaccine, it's efficacy, or mandates already got the shot. Not one of them is arguing that the vaccine has to be perfect.
Full disclosure, I am not vaccinated for covid. Everything else except HPV, I think. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what my reasoning is, it's nobody's business but my own. That is almost universally what everyone not cheering on this particular vaccine is saying.
Not one of them is arguing that the vaccine has to be perfect.
The arguments I'm seeing here is that the vaccine doesn't stop the spread, it doesn't stop people from getting the virus, all it does is lesson the symptoms. Which means it's not immunity. In fact it's nothing at all.
Or maybe I'm misinterpreting what people are saying.
Right, so you have people pointing out the obvious fact that this isn't a vaccine by any definition of the word because it possess none of the properties of a vaccine and only the properties of a weakly-efficacious therapeutic agent.
Kinda sorta. Being too stupid to comprehend what is being said is a sort of cousin of misinterpretation.
Those are all facts that we actually do have in evidence. Which means it's somewhere between a daily vitamin and the flu vaccine.
I think you're misinterpreting what they are saying, I'm not seeing them say it's nothing at all, just that it's not a panacea and therefore doesn't need to be mandated or pushed on to people.
Mandates and such should be opposed on principle, not by portraying the vaccine as ineffective. That discourages people from taking it over politics. Which is stupid.
And yet you support and have supported for 2 years mandates for wearing masks and getting vaccinated. Also the vaccine *is* ineffective. The facts are the facts. The data are the data.
EncouragingMandating people to take an ineffective vaccine that is, at best, a prophylactic therapeutic intervention that only diminishes the severity of symptoms over politics is stupid.“all it does is lesson the symptoms. Which means it's not immunity. In fact it's nothing at all.”
Here sarc contradicts his misrepresentation of other people’s arguments in just three short sentences. Impressive, really.
"Mandates and such should be opposed on principle, not by portraying the vaccine as ineffective. That discourages people from taking it over politics. Which is stupid."
While true, I have also observed:
1) People try to make the moral case that if you are unvaccinated, you are walking around "swinging your fists" in violation of the NAP. And in this case the fact that the Vaccine is not 100% effective is EXTREMELY germane. Because the whole "you have a moral responsibility to vaccinate" argument is based on the idea that an vaccinated person isn't walking around spreading the disease. And we know that isn't true. It is logically incorrect to say a person walking around vaccinated and infected is *not* violating the NAP while saying that the person walking around unvaccinated and infected *is*- let alone someone walking around unvaccinated and NOT infected.
2) Too many Pro-Vax people act like they have science on their side, when saying deeply unscientific things. It is an undeniable fact that people beneath the age of 40 are overwhelmingly safe from this virus- even more so if they are generally healthy. When weighing whether to vaccinate or not, it is absolutely relevant to decide whether the benefit of the vaccine outweighs the risks or costs, and thus understanding the limit of the benefits is important.
"not by portraying the vaccine as ineffective"
I see you've been taking chemjeff lessons.
Notice how sarc completely changes the argument from opposition to mandates to the discussions of the vaccines efficacy. Knowing he won't get away with it completely, he adds a little cover at the end, "Or maybe I'm misinterpreting".
Or maybe I'm misinterpreting what people are saying.
That is of a certainty.
Almost everyone you so blithely argue with have been saying that the imperfect vaccine is still the best option for the vulnerable. For other adults it is unnecessary. For children it is fucking nuts.
Well I'm not 1 or 2. I think it's a great idea. I did it. I encourage people to do it. And if they don't want to talk about it I respect that. The end.
You're not wrong, it's just that you and your gaggle of sockpuppets are the only people who actually do that. Like when you spent 2 years telling us that nobody should use drugs so old and so safe that they are OTC in most countries as prophylaxis or early treatment against COVID despite dozens of studies demonstrating at least minimal efficacy, because the only options were an experimental mRNA therapy whose efficacy is down to 37% from the initially-reported 95%, or permanent face diapers.
Nope, we only say (again) that the jab doesn't stop transmission and that the virus will eventually go through the population no matter how many people are jabbed.
But you'll pretend tomorrow you've never heard this before.
"Anything that isn't perfect isn't worth doing at all."
This from the stupid sumbitch who can't tell Biden from Trump.
Coming from the people who insisted that paper face masks and experimental vaccines were the only two options for treating and preventing COVID, that's pretty fucking rich.
The biggest problem with that study is that unvaccinated participants who had natural immunity (i.e. who already had covid) were NOT identified, and thus couldn't be compared to a) those who didn't have natural immunity, or to b) those who were vaccinated.
Since half (or more than half) of unvaccinated participants already had natural immunity, they shouldn't have been included in the unvaccinated group of folks who didn't have natural immunity, as that likely skewed the results significantly.
In other words, had the researchers excluded everyone with natural immunity (i.e. those who had previously had covid) from the study, the unvaccinated participants would have almost certainly had a much higher viral load (and chance of transmission) than vaccinated participants.
But we're supposed to be pretending natural immunity doesn't count, so that's not an option.
Kinda puts these poor researchers in a tough spot. Praise The Science!
This landed with a whisper last week. I haven't had time to go through it, but by the Journal's overview it just smacked of poor construction.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/study-of-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-shows-vaccination-is-better-guard-than-prior-infection-11635543610
There probably was a 2 month window while alpha was still predominant when this was true. Not a generalized truth. Mostly bullshit
Disinformation. Between Simpson Effect, typo, and gaslighting from the CDC:
How they get from 5.1% to 8.7% being a 5.5-fold increase is unfathomable, let alone that they ignore the other facts that show their conclusions to be abject bullshit.
Astounding that with hospitals full of predominantly unvaccinated people, they found 6K vaccinated people with COVID-like symptoms and only 1K unvaccinated people.
they found 6K vaccinated people with COVID-like symptoms and only 1K unvaccinated people.
They could only find 1K unvaccinated, previously infected patients. But remember all of last year when they had those tests primed to detect false-positives? Wanna guess if they are adjusting for that?
They could only find 1K unvaccinated, previously infected patients.
Regardless, either they biased the collection criteria one way or the other, or a straight up no-statistics objective analysis shows that they set a criteria of people showing up in the hospital with COVID-like symptoms and (somehow) got almost 6X as many vaccinated people as unvaccinated. I mean, straightforward math would indicate that if a vaccine were ~95% effective, you'd need 20X the population to get roughly equivalent numbers. Here, they collected 6X the number of vaccinated and got more than 6X the number of recurrent infections.
The fact that they are rather overtly incurring a Simpson's Paradox (overall vaccines are more effective, but in every demographic they're less), demonstrates that even if they didn't botch the sampling, the analysis is between worthless and bullshit.
The latter being so obvious in the data it almost makes it seem like they *want* to ignore age as the confounding variable in order to arrive at their conclusion. Maybe if they'd said it's 5-fold more effective in those who need it, their conclusion would make sense, but they don't.
Personally, I'm having trouble getting past the gall of their explanation of aOR. In light of the data, it comes across as "Fuck you, the odds are what we say they are."
It is all narrative. About the only thing you can rely on is that whatever the CDC says has nothing to do with actual science or statistical analysis.
Astounding that with hospitals full of predominantly unvaccinated people, they found 6K vaccinated people with COVID-like symptoms and only 1K unvaccinated people.
That was my immediate takeaway. The samples they're working with are basically useless for extrapolation.
fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Joe Friday, White Mike and every one of those damned jeffys can all go fuck each other until they die. They have mocked me relentlessly for months for telling this truth.
Eat anecdotal shit you fuckweasels!
The true funny/sad thing is that they will continue to believe that the unvaccinated are more dangerous.
After activists defeated plans for a market-rate housing complex in San Francisco's Mission district, the city plans to step in and build affordable housing on the site.
San Francisco is basically full communist at this point. The city is building it's own "affordable housing"? what a joke. It will be a boondoggle for one and the process for getting in will be completely corrupt. Just like communists do it. Fucking SF
But it'll keep limping along thanks to capitalist billionaire money.
It will be a boondoggle
The city of San Francisco's affordable housing project will never open. The only question will be if it runs out of money mid-project, or if someone Howard Roarks it. These assholes are determined to make every Ayn Rand dystopia a reality.
Picture that kid from The Road Warrior camping in the ruins in 25 years wishing for some of that 'precious juice' that used to run vehicles.
"The Biden administration is pressing ahead with requiring workers to get their COVID jab or potentially lose their job, a move that will certainly invite legal challenges."
This has to be Biden's stupidest political decision so far, as I strongly suspect his vaccine mandate will prompt 10%-20% of voters (i.e. those who don't get vaccinated, many union members, and freedom loving vaccinated folks) to vote for the GOP today (and next year).
Seems like Biden's handlers have misinterpreted their surveys finding 55%-60% support for Biden's handling of covid (something I never understood, since Biden has done nothing to protect public health, but instead took credit for Trump's vaccines) to believe that most Americans would support an unscientific, unwarranted, totalitarian vaccine mandate.
His vaccine mandate is now creating single issue voters (who won't vote Democrat).
Biden didn't make this decision. His handlers did. And they are a bunch of millennial stalinists.
Fuck Joe Stalin.
The unscientific and totalitarian mask mandates (imposed by left wing Democrat governors, mayors and county execs) have/will also prompt some otherwise undecided moderates and freedom loving Americans to vote for the GOP (and against Democrats) today, as will Democrats ongoing support for BLM, CRT, crazy transgender policies, and their attempts to spend massive amounts of nonexistent taxpayers money and impose socialism.
A new study out of Israel has found 3rd doses of the covid vaccine were 92% effective in preventing serious illness from covid.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-study-covid-booster-shots-92-effective-at-preventing-serious-illness/
Meanwhile, the rate of new covid cases in Israel has plummeted by 93% since peaking in September (as most Israelis have taken the booster vaccine dose during the past several months).
This is yet another reason why vaccine mandates are stupid, as any vaccinated person who is concerned about getting covid can get a booster shot.
Covid mutating around the 3rd booster, in 3, 2, 1...
You're never going to be rid of this thing. Take the therapeutic if you feel you're vulnerable. Wash your hands.
Then shut the fuck up about it.
The end.
"stupidest political decision so far, as I strongly suspect his vaccine mandate will prompt 10%-20% of voters... to vote for the GOP today (and next year)"
It doesn't matter anymore. Electoral fortification is in place. The 2016 election was probably the last somewhat-kinda-almost honest election the US will ever have.
We'll see. Going to be a lot tougher to cheat 435-ish races---or even the 50 or so close ones that'll decide the balance in House/Senate---than it was to do it for the Presidential Election, the Georgia Senate races, or as we're going to see, the VA Governor's.
But if it does happen, then we'll really know where we are.
I share your view on this, Mother's. I wish I didn't. I hope I'm wrong.
election stories were more exciting when our fucking votes counted.
Like watching a North Korean dictator at the bowling alley. Gutter ball and mysteriously all the pins fall.
President B is Kim Jong Eeeeeew
"Voters in Virginia will pick a new governor today in a closely watched, increasingly tight race."
Voters in Virginia will also pick a new Lt. Governor, Attorney General and Assembly members today. If Youngkin wins the governor's race, it is likely that GOP candidates will also replace Democrats in those other offices and regain control of the VA Assembly.
Imagine for a moment if you went to a policing agency and asked them for data regarding arrests and interactions broken down by race, and their response was:
Our police agency is working diligently to reduce crime. Our agency does not wish to have any appearance of discouraging efforts among police officers to enforce the law and prevent crime. As a result, our agency will not enforce any consent decrees or track any data regarding racial breakdowns of police interactions and arrests at least through May 2022. We will reevaluate the agency’s position at that time to determine the best course of action moving forward.
That's what OSHA just did on their own rules regarding these vaccine mandates and practically NO ONE has noticed:
DOL and OSHA, as well as other federal agencies, are working diligently to encourage COVID-19 vaccinations. OSHA does not wish to have any appearance of discouraging workers from receiving COVID-19 vaccination, and also does not wish to disincentivize employers' vaccination efforts. As a result, OSHA will not enforce 29 CFR 1904's recording requirements to require any employers to record worker side effects from COVID-19 vaccination at least through May 2022. We will reevaluate the agency’s position at that time to determine the best course of action moving forward.
If Biden's OSHA vaccine mandate prevails in court, future presidents might be legally authorized to require employers to provide healthcare insurance for employees, require obese employees to lose weight, all cigarette smokers to quit smoking, and require all employees to routinely take random tests for illegal drugs.
Hopefully, Biden's OSHA mandate will quickly be struck down in court. Unfortunately, if an Obama appointed judge is assigned the case, he/she will likely rule in favor of Biden's mandate (just as Obama appointed judges struck down virtually every Trump regulation that landed on their docket).
The OSHA rule will likely eventually get struck down on appeal (if an Obama appointed judge upholds it initially), but that could take awhile to adjudicate.
But couldn't the order be "stayed" until such time as Justice Roberts decides it is really a tax?
It's a Penal Vax
Head....meet sand.
Instagram declares scientific paper which finds men on average are stronger than women as "hate speech".
Instagram wants to be the next Diana Moon Glampers.
Transcription Factor Analysis
https://www.profacgen.com/transcription-factor-analysis.htm Transcription factors are proteins that bind to specific DNA sequences and regulate the transcription of genetic information from DNA to messenger RNA (mRNA). They are found in all living organisms.
Previously on this site, columnists and supposedly knowledgeable commenters were gleefully warning of the shock NYC faced with lost employees due to covid mandates about to hit. I suggested otherwise based on the reality of other similar situations were tough talk melted away when good jobs with benefits were weighed against the horror (a horror I tell you!) of getting vaccinated.
Guess what?
Todays WaPo:
"The heads of the five major unions representing members of the New York City Police Department warned that 10,000 unvaccinated police officers were “set to be pulled from [the] streets” as a Nov. 1 vaccine mandate deadline for New York City employees passed.
So far, the number is 34.
Fewer than three dozen uniformed officers out of about 35,000 were placed on unpaid leave on Monday when the deadline expired, in addition to 40 civilian NYPD staff out of roughly 17,000, Police Commissioner Dermot Shea said in a news conference....."
Oh well, obviously those numbers are locked in forever. The situation can't possibly change later today when the department announces new figures in an ongoing story. Nope, set in stone.
Also, fuck those 74 people for refusing to violate their bodily autonomy to satisfy quack demands.
Who is going to investigate their claim to have been vaccinated? Nobody. Like any NYC employee has any problem with lying. I am just surprised that only 34 of them were too dumb to find a fake card.
Joe has no fucking point, as usual.
"I am just surprised that only 34 of them were too dumb to find a fake card."
Jesu Christo, this.
I'm disappointed. If we're going to adopt Latin American governance and culture, then goddamnit, start adopting some of their coping mechanisms. Mandates aren't a problem for employment in those countries, because everyone affected knows somebody they can either bribe or influence to help them traverse this idiotic red tape obstacle.
Fuck this mandate, and fuck you for insisting upon it.
start adopting some of their coping mechanisms
"Yeah, Marge, here's my card, and look, it was signed by Dr. Benjamin Franklin..."
"I don't know, Jimmy, I think the doctor is supposed to sign it twice..."
Here you go Chuck, from the actual rules for NYC employees:
"14. What counts as proof of vaccination?
Employees, interns, and volunteers may submit, using secure means, proof of vaccination
directly to their own agency or contract organization. Employers should maintain a confidential
record of the employees who have demonstrated proof of vaccination.
Proof must be:
• An official CDC card or other official immunization card bearing the employee’s name
and date(s) of vaccine administration. The employer must see this document or a
photograph of it;
• An Excelsior Pass issued by the State of New York; or
• The NYC COVID SAFE app that clearly displays an image of the CDC card or other official
immunization card with the above noted requirements. The NYC COVID SAFE app can be
downloaded for Apple or Android (or by searching “NYC COVID Safe” on Apple app store
or Google Play store).
Proof of vaccination for vaccines administered outside the U.S. must be an official immunization
record and will include all of the following:
• First name and last name
• Date of birth
• Vaccine product name (ex: Moderna)
• Lot number (note: lot number may not be included on all official cards)
• Date(s) administered
• Site where the vaccine was administered or person who administered the vaccine or the
country where the vaccine was administered. "
https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/dcas/downloads/pdf/guidelines/faq-vaccine-mandate.pdf
Here you go Chuck,
I can't tell if you're answering a question no one asked or if you're considering the reading of presented official documents as fitting the definition of 'investigation'.
The employer must see this document or a photograph of it;
Completely foolproof. Absolutely guaranteed that there is no way a 13 year old with a phone and a free PDF editor app could get you a fake one.
Oh well, obviously those numbers are locked in forever.
Yeah. Samiliar was supposed to happen here in Chicago. The Mayor said they'd be fired. The Union said, "Go ahead and try." Pencil pushers in the city government said it would take months to validate everyone's vaccination records and now, low and behold; Chicago mayor fuming after judge orders immediate halt to “mandate” for Chicago Police Officers
.
Too bad that, at least in Chicago anyway, this likely means more cushier pensions that the taxpayers can't afford.
I reiterate my sentiment that they all die in a Polish firing squad.
Fuck off and die, asshole.
Interesting.
The Union of State's Government has NO, ZERO, ZIP authority for this and it isn't any business of theirs... Especially being so minor.
F-EN Nazi's. State's should immediately nullify this abusive Regime. Force it into the Supreme Court and if the Courts won't enforce "The People's" law over their government it's time to DEFEND your rights.
I think we all really need to start looking at some sort of massive human-rights tribunal to bring politicians, judges and bureaucrats who abused freedom and human rights using the pandemic as an excuse, to some sort of accountability.
Maybe we could get the Swedes to host the trials?
We could similarly wish for the Swedish Bikini Team to drop in, covered in oil and desiring intercourse. Probably as likely.
Lol. Both impossible.
Maybe Biden could get conservatives on board with vaccine mandates by pointing out that some of the employees getting vaccinations will use, build, or maintain a woman's restroom at some point. They instantly stop caring about people's freedom and autonomy as soon as access to restrooms is an issue. They're willing to exclude tons of people from restrooms if there is even the slightest chance they might pose any danger at all. So if you make it about spreading COVID in a restroom, they'd probably all start demanding double masks and booster shot mandates before anyone is allowed near one!
They're willing to exclude tons of people from restrooms
This is a really shitty argument.
Pisses me off.
"Maybe we could get moderates on board by fucking over women." does sound like a legitimate outcome of a left-wing strategy session.
Well that was remarkably retarded.
Chuck said there was no way to verify if NYC cops actually were vaccinated or not.
Wrong again.
From the NYC rules for employees on covid vaccines:
"14. What counts as proof of vaccination?
Employees, interns, and volunteers may submit, using secure means, proof of vaccination
directly to their own agency or contract organization. Employers should maintain a confidential
record of the employees who have demonstrated proof of vaccination.
Proof must be:
• An official CDC card or other official immunization card bearing the employee’s name
and date(s) of vaccine administration. The employer must see this document or a
photograph of it;
• An Excelsior Pass issued by the State of New York; or
• The NYC COVID SAFE app that clearly displays an image of the CDC card or other official
immunization card with the above noted requirements. The NYC COVID SAFE app can be
downloaded for Apple or Android (or by searching “NYC COVID Safe” on Apple app store
or Google Play store).
Proof of vaccination for vaccines administered outside the U.S. must be an official immunization
record and will include all of the following:
• First name and last name
• Date of birth
• Vaccine product name (ex: Moderna)
• Lot number (note: lot number may not be included on all official cards)
• Date(s) administered
• Site where the vaccine was administered or person who administered the vaccine or the
country where the vaccine was administered. "
https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/dcas/downloads/pdf/guidelines/faq-vaccine-mandate.pdf
Meanwhile:
Today's WaPo
"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has weighed in for the first time in a detailed science report released with little fanfare Friday evening. Reviewing scores of research studies and its own unpublished data, the agency found that both infection-induced and vaccine-induced immunity are durable for at least six months — but that vaccines are more consistent in their protection and offer a huge boost in antibodies for people previously infected.
In comparing the two types of immunity, scientists said research shows vaccination provides a “higher, more robust, and more consistent level of immunity to protect people from COVID-19 than infection alone.”..."