Food Freedom

Will Massachusetts Make Life Sweeter for Home-Cook Entrepreneurs?

It's oppressively hard, if not impossible, to sell homemade food in the Bay State. One lawmaker proposes massive regulatory reform.

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Massachusetts lawmakers may soon blow up what is currently one of the nation's worst cottage food laws.

H465, sponsored by State Rep. Erika Uyterhoeven (D–Somerville), would eliminate the state's burdensome local permitting and home-inspection requirements, among other dramatic improvements.

Uyterhoeven and other supporters have pitched the bill as a COVID-19 recovery measure, a way to help out-of-work chefs, immigrants, stay-at-home parents, and others get back on their feet, WHDH reports. It's all that and a bag of chips!

As I detail in my book Biting the Hands that Feed Us: How Fewer, Smarter Laws Would Make Our Food System More Sustainable and elsewhere, cottage food laws are laws that allow home cooks to produce and sell certain homemade foods—typically low-risk foods such as many baked goods, spice blends, teas, and jams—from their homes, at farmers markets, online, and at other venues. As I've noted time and again, cases in which homemade foods sold to consumers have sickened people–even in states that allow more high-risk foods such as cheesecake or sauerkraut—are difficult or impossible to find.

Though every state now has a cottage food law, these laws vary dramatically in quality. That's why—as I noted in a September column in which I detailed a host of recent improvements to several cottage food laws around the country—I'm currently working on a study for the Reason Foundation (the nonprofit that publishes Reason) comparing state cottage food laws (along with other, more expansive laws governing the sale of homemade foods) in all fifty states.

In Massachusetts, entrepreneurs who want to produce and sell food from their home kitchens first must navigate a host of procedural challenges. First, their local government must allow cottage food sales. In Massachusetts, many municipalities do not. In remarks earlier this month before the state legislature's Joint Committee on Environment, Natural Resources and Agriculture, Uyterhoeven told fellow lawmakers that the lack of preemption has meant that "hundreds of municipalities" not only don't have any cottage food producers within their borders, they "don't even have a permitting process for cottage foods."

Increasingly, lawmakers around the country have passed cottage food laws that have failed to fulfill their promise—often because they've been undermined by intransigent local health departments. These lawmakers are realizing the error of their ways. With Rep. Uyterhoeven's bill, Massachusetts could join the ranks of New Mexico, Florida, and Illinois as states that have added preemption clauses to their respective cottage food laws just this year.

Even if a city or town in Massachusetts has a permitting process in place, the process inevitably stinks. As it stands today, Massachusetts is one of a dwindling number of states that require local health departments to create and manage their own permitting and inspection schemes.

Take Boston, where the City Council voted just this year to create a permitting process for cottage food producers. The city had previously banned it. While it's great that there's now a process for becoming a cottage food producer in Boston, that process is still deeply onerous. Boston, operating as other cities and towns do under the state's cottage food law, requires a prospective cottage food producer first to complete an application before it will issue a permit. That application must include a list of foods the producer intends to make; a sketch of kitchen, prep, and storage areas that is "drawn to scale;" a sample product label—something even the FDA doesn't require of the world's largest food producers; proof of zoning approval; and several other tedious hoops.

If Boston were to approve the application, the applicant would then be required to have their home kitchen inspected by the city health department. Only if the inspector approved their home kitchen would the producer then be issued a permit that would allow them to begin selling cottage foods.

Contrast that mind-numbing, entrepreneurship-stifling process with that found in some states:

  • Step 1: Make some food at home.
  • Step 2: Start selling it.

In other words, while Massachusetts requires permitting and kitchen inspection, label pre-approval, kitchen sketches, and other steps before one may launch a cottage food business, many states require nothing of the sort. The idea of inviting a health inspector into one's home kitchen is especially discouraging and burdensome, particularly given that cottage foods rarely (if ever) have caused foodborne illnesses.

Uyterhoeven's bill would eliminate most of these burdensome requirements for cottage foods. For starters, the bill would preempt government units—including health departments—from permitting or inspecting cottage food operations. But the bill would not shift the heavy burden of home-kitchen inspections onto the state. Instead, it would abolish the inspection requirement altogether—consistent with most state cottage food laws today—along with ending the mandatory permitting process. (At least one anonymous, self-described Massachusetts local health department employee is aghast over these potential changes.)

The bill would also expand the types of foods home cooks can produce in the state—in Massachusetts, foods produced currently in home kitchens for sale may only be shelf stable, including baked goods, jams, and jellies—to explicitly include pickles. And it would add a requirement that cottage food producers inform consumers, via a mandatory label statement, that the food they're purchasing was produced in an uninspected home kitchen and may contain allergens.

That latter, added requirement is an important one. While I'm no fan of increased regulations generally, I docked Massachusetts—and a couple other states—in my study's draft state rankings for not requiring such label statements to appear on homemade foods. I believe requiring a clear label statement on cottage foods, such as the one proposed in Massachusetts, provides any consumer with the information they need to be an informed consumer.

If Massachusetts updates its cottage food law by adding a preemption clause, removing kitchen-inspection requirements, allowing some pickled foods, and improving its labeling requirements—as State Rep. Uyterhoeven's bill would appear to do—then Massachusetts's cottage food law would rocket immediately in my rankings from one of the nation's worst to one of its best. That's why I'm excited about the prospect of cottage food reform in Massachusetts.

NEXT: The Pope Who Helped Bring Down Communism

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  1. Ugh. I'm literally shaking right now. Our entire system is poisoned from the top down by WHITE SUPREMACY.

    Rittenhouse. Literally. Crossed. State. Lines.

    #StateLinesAreSacred
    #(NationalBordersNotSoMuch)

    1. What did he think this was? America or something?

      1. Its not like just anyone is entitled to go to a riot.

        1. Apparently now you have to join the "Party for Socialism and LIberation", which seems to have a national protest sign printing business.

          https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10223639/Kyle-Rittenhouses-acquittal-sparks-protests-nation.html

          1. Der Huber / Rosenbaum Lied

            The flag is high, our ranks are closed

            Antifa marches with silent solid steps.

            Pedophiles shot by the red front and reaction

            March in spirit with us in our ranks.

            The Nikes are free for the black battalions

            The street is free for us Storm Troopers.

            Millions full of dope, look at our black flag.

            The day breaks for free shit and free bread.

            For the last time the call will now be sounded

            For the struggle now we all stand ready.

            Soon will fly Biden's banners over every street

            Your freedom will last only a short time longer.

            The flag is high, our ranks are closed

            Antifa marches with silent solid steps.

            Wife beaters shot by the red front and reaction

            March in spirit with us in our ranks.

            1. Unsurprisingly not many word change from the original.

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        3. Progressive riots are just FBI sanctioned off-Broadway performances of Stomp. Hopefully the NEA helps fund them. Rittenhouse was without an official party invite and therefore was engaging in clinical, criminal, insurrectional, felony trespassing.

          1. Graphic video shows a speeding vehicle ram through participants of the Christmas parade in #Waukesha, Wisc. Few details confirmed at this point though the police said they have a person of interest they’re looking into. https://t.co/zKEX1VoC2T

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    2. Jeff is so outraged he was blaming segregation of students on white supremacist parents. Ignores that all the segregation is coming from CRT pushing teachers and school boards.

      This is a post white supremacist vigilante world.

      1. So is it post 1/6, or post 11/19?

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    3. Wow, I've heard he crossed states lines till my ears were blue, but I didn't realize that he only lived one mile from the state line, and only twenty miles from Kenosha. I also didn't realize that his Dad and his Dad's family lived there.

      This video demonstrates just how evil the American media has become. Even Pravda wasn't quite this blatant... and they were forced to lie. The American media does it because they want to.

      1. Jeebus could you whine some more?

        1. It’s hard for Mother’s. Canadians are all polite and don’t riot that often, so it’s hard for him not having those street conflicts in his life.

          1. Mike doesn't understand the difficulty of knowing facts. He just freely postulates and ignores counter information.

            1. She's just talking about her feelings.

              Facts don't change depending on how we feel about them, and her feelings don't change because of facts.

              It's not just that she doesn't know the difference between thoughts and feelings. She has no idea what you're talking about when you say there's a difference between them.

              1. Feelings
                Nothing more than feelings

                I guess it is true that I was expressing my feelings toward Mother’s Lament when I made a snarky comment about him.

                It’s funny and telling that you have muted me, sarcasmic, and other thoughtful critics of your comments, but have not muted JesseAz, a clear liar and troll.

                1. Am I first on your list?

                  Funny how you call it lies and trolls when i post your comments word from word. Exposing you isnt trolling.

                  Others see your same bullshit day in and day out as well.

                  1. Damn. First you topped sarcasmic's enemies list and now White Mike's.

                    What do you have that I don't?

                2. Oh look. He turded. As in dropped turds. Or perhaps they were juicy and didn't just drop. They required wiping. And a good fling. With a flourish. Maybe they....

                  Either way it's shit.

                  1. Looks like sarcasmic forgot to switch socks. He usually only waxes rhapsodical about feces as Sqrlsy.

              2. You mean like the outcome of the last election? No matter how you feel about it, Trump still lost.

                1. Not a lefty. Only people still talking non stop about trump are leftists.

                  1. sarcasmic swears he is totally not a Democratic Party fanboy. It's just totally a coincidence he always shills for them.

        2. Yeah complaining about overt, mendacious and dishonest propaganda for the sake of the Democrats is "whining".
          Thanks for pointing it out, party shill.

          1. ML, when you crossing the southern border to pick up your $450k?

            1. I'm Métis, not Mestizo, so Joe doesn't want to cough up anymore.

            2. Those are some high-quality state lines right there.

              uh-huh

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      2. "Wow, I've heard he crossed states lines till my ears were blue"

        Since when is it against the law to cross state lines with a gun? I keep hearing this, too, and maybe it is a crime, but I don't know why it would be. People legally cross states lines with guns all the time. There are websites you can go to and see which states recognize each other's permits for concealed carry, but this wasn't a case of concealed carry. Hunters from all over the country cross state lines during various hunting seasons all the time. The idea that it's against the law to cross state lines with a gun seems absurd!

        1. It seems like they're just regurgitating some meme, which is pretty typical of progressives generally. If they were accustomed to using their smart bone for critical thinking, they probably wouldn't be progressives. I'm not sure it's possible to truly believe the things progressives believe with our critical thinking skills intact.

          1. And pretty typical of all partisans, including right-wingers.

            1. Why are you so interested in defending liberals when you claim you aren't one?

            2. White Mike always rushes in to defend the Democrats, and only the Democrats, but always insists that he isn't one.

          2. "The current wording of the overarching law seems clear: “Any person under 18 years of age who possesses or goes armed with a dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.” A lead-in paragraph defines dangerous weapon as several things, including “any firearm, loaded or unloaded.”

            The subsection that defense attorneys relied upon to seek dismissal reads: “This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 ...” That section of law isn’t specific to minors, but rather forbids any person from having a short-barreled shotgun or rifle."

            ----ABC News

            https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/explainer-judge-drop-rittenhouse-gun-charge-81285031

            I suspect a lot of people don't know what a short barreled rifle is.

            The gun was lawfully acquired. It was a legal weapon. There was no crime there. You can't accuse people of doing something that is perfectly legal. You have to go to the legislature first and make it illegal. Progressives seem to think they can make something illegal, ex post facto, because they want it to be illegal later. This is another reason why progressives are America's most horrible people.

            1. You actually *can* accuse people of doing something that is perfectly legal, in a lot of settings, and sometimes get results.

              But, in a courtroom, it's kinda stupid.

              1. Prosecute was what I meant.

                You can't prosecute people for doing things that aren't illegal.

                1. Who's to sat what's legal vs illegal anymore?
                  It's not like we have a credible consistent court system now, and the left sure as hell doesn't give a shit about equal treatment under the rule of law.

                  1. WTF do you think critical theory and intersectionality if for?

                    1. Nazi-style indoctrination and to hate-monger against political enemies, or just anyone who opposes the totalitarian state

          1. Doesn't matter in Wisconsin dummy. See the trial. Read the laws. Pay your mortgage.

            1. Dumb asshole doesn’t care about facts.

        2. Rittenhouse didn’t cross state lines with the rifle, anyway. He had a friend buy it for him in Wisconsin.

          1. It’s possible there was something illegal about that arrangement, but the prosecution didn’t pursue it.

            1. Are youbfinally admitting you were wrong about teenagers in Wisconsin carrying rifles? I only gave you the actual law the night it happened and you denied it for weeks.

              1. I can't imagine them making it illegal for kids to hunt rabbits in Wisconsin--which, yes, involves kids walking around with rifles.

                1. What are you talking about? Meat comes from grocery stores.

                  1. I think that's what's happening in these progressive's minds. They think everyone is like the suburbs of New York and Los Angeles. When those dairy farmers in Wisconsin want to keep their kids out of trouble, they probably give them a 22 rifle or a shotgun and a dog. A seventeen year old kid walking around with a rifle in much of America is about as dangerous as Ralphie in A Christmas Story getting a Red Ryder BB gun.

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soUG7NSgkTg

                    1. Correct

                    2. I posted a comment elsewhere that gas prices were up 70% from a year ago.
                      Among the angry replies received from leftists:
                      -stop driving a truck or suv then
                      -prices are higher in Europe
                      -prices were higher under Bush
                      -nuh uh
                      -can't compare prices to 2020 because pandemic

                      -and my favorite: "Because we erroneously invested in cars and not public transportation. We need more efectric cars and high speed rail." - "I mean, it's almost like Exxon & Koch family have spent millions upon millions to lobby against public transportation & not pass climate change legislation (for example in WI, after Gov Walker nixed Obama's high speed train, Koch's donated 250k to him)."
                      which pairs nicely with "Oh no I have to drive a thousand miles a day because I chose to live in outskirts of nowhere. I'm dying."

                    3. Gas prices are high so we need Daddy Gov to spend more on buses and trains... because obviously everybody lives in a shithole city, and those who don't do not matter

                    4. Fucking NPCs need to be stopped, because they won't stop coming for the rest of us.

                    5. I know plenty of farmers and ranchers. Back in the old days, they would have clearly seen the qualitative difference between carrying a rifle around in the country and carrying a rifle in town. Then the Red vs. Blue Team culture war radicalized their views, and started making them irrationally pro-gun as progressives are irrational against guns.

                  2. Not anymore.
                    You'll have no meat, and you'll like it. Or else.

                    1. Meat is murder. Or worse than murder.

                    2. Wrongthink is literally murder.

                2. I can imagine it. Provided the progressives believe it would save just one violent rioter’s life.

                3. The WI regulations required kids under a certain age to have adult supervision when hunting, but that age was below 17.

                  Of course, Rittenhouse was clearly not hunting in the middle of a street riot.

                  1. Lol. Mime still thinks he is right despite being given the law and it being dismissed at trial.

                    God damn Mike. Take the L

                    1. When we say these progressives don't care about facts and logic, that's for reals. They genuinely don't care whether they're wrong or right.

                      Try muting them for a week--just a week!

                    2. "Wisconsin residents and non-residents under the age of 10 may not hunt or obtain a hunting license. Residents and non-residents ages 10 to 17 must have a hunting license. Additional licenses may be required. Non-residents ages 10 to 17 may purchase a hunting license at the resident rate if they have a parent who is a Wisconsin resident. Visit the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources for more information about youth hunting licenses."

                      ----State of Wisconsin

                      https://www.hunter-ed.com/wisconsin/hunting_license/

                      You can get a license to hunt when you're seventeen, but in the minds of progressives, it'll illegal to walk around with a rifle?!

                      Progressives are so ignorant and stupid!

                    3. I bet she's about to claim that Rittenhouse was breaking the law if he didn't have a hunting license--even though he wasn't hunting.

                    4. Progressives like Mike Laursen are pure evil, and a threat to your life and well being.

                  2. Read the law. Follow the references to the exceptions. I was told over and over that this was the 'easy' charge against him, and then I read the law - which is published online and easy to find, btw - and I came to the same conclusion as the judge and - I dunno - everyone who read the law.

                    Or just be one of the 'crossed state lines' crowd, if you want.

                    1. The defense attorney said he knew it was a bogus charge from the beginning. He said he knew it would be thrown out later. I suspect he didn't argue against it before they were going over jury instructions because he wanted to let the prosecutor waste his time and ammo on a bogus charge--that wouldn't be there in the end anyway. For the prosecutor's part, the law does stipulate that if the gun was used illegally, the defendant can't claim self-defense. The prosecutor apparently thought if he could get that misdemeanor charge, and the jury found him guilty of that, the jury wouldn't be able to apply his self-defense claims. The prosecutor was probably wrong about that, but he was wrong about a lot of things.

        3. Cars kill more people than guns, and cars cross state lines all the time.

          1. True, and complexity irrelevant.

            1. complexity irrelevant
              ?

              1. Irrelevant to her feelings.

                1. Nope. Just the very obvious irrelevance that cars are not guns.

                  1. Top down video of the terrorist attack in Waukesha. The driver deliberately drove through the Christmas parade crowd. https://t.co/drMc6Tfo1C

              2. You can try and try but you'll never change her feelings with facts and logic.

                . . . which is another way of saying she's an idiot.

                1. You’ve never tried. In fact, you muted me to hide from seeing my quite valid and cogent criticisms of your Republican-promoting partisan arguments.

                    1. Hahaha! She is!

                  1. “I’m smart, and dog-gonnit, people like me”!,
                    White Mike

      3. yeah, like the mostly peaceful protestors never crossed state lines to get to Wisconsin or St. Louis or Portland or Seattle....

        1. True, and completely irrelevant.

      4. Actually he had a job as a lifeguard in Kenosha and if I remember correctly he worked a shift in the morning before going to clean graffiti off of the local high school that day. I live in Illinois about 20 minutes from Wisconsin. Once you get used to the overwhelming stench of cheese curds and the phony Canadian accents it's not too bad. Except for the rioters and vigilantes of course.

        1. PS Fuck Joe Biden.

    4. About a million people cross from New Jersey to Ny for work every day. Rittenshouse' job as a life guard is in Kenosha, His father and best friend live that.

      What are you so hysterical about. Crossing state lines is not. a think

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    6. Just to be 100% clear. This is being done to compete with the weed industry in Maine. Since legalization in Maine (Maine supports Maine) the number of local home growers and resellers have spiked and started to compete with Mass as Maine tends to be better quality due to the local home grown shops, Maine is much less regulated and Maine is also cheaper. Just wait till NH and NYS fully legalize. Those corporate shops (Pittsfield and Lee) will be GONE.

  2. In before Dipshit Dave Weigel jumps in to start gaslighting us with how great a job Brandon is doing.

    Fuck Joe Biden.

    1. Fuck Joe Biden

      1. Yeah, fuck Joe Biden!

        1. Dit dit dit: -- --- .-. -. .. -. --. / ... .. --. -. .- .-.. / - .-. .- -. ... -- .. - - . -.. .-.-.- / ... - --- .--. .-.-.-

          1. More signaling

          2. Try this instead --. --- / ..-. ..- -.-. -.- / -.-- --- ..- .-. ... . .-.. ..-. / .-- .... .. - . / -- .. -.- . / ... - --- .--.

          3. Protect the shitty president Mike!

        1. P.S. Fuck Joe Biden!

          1. To which I would add Fuck Joe Biden.

            1. Won't somebody please think about the fuck Joe Biden?

              1. After careful deliberation, Fuck Joe Biden

              2. Membership in conservative commenters club clearly signaled.

                1. Can I just add to all of this "Fuck Be Unto Joe Biden?"

                2. The funny thing about this is the vast majority of independents say fuck Joe biden.

                  Only religious leftists haven't yet.

    2. Jeebus could you whine some more?

      Used it once, but wow it fits.

      1. Jeebus could you whine some more?

  3. I was expecting riots to break out last night, and they did. It just wasn't what I expected.

    "Protests in Rotterdam against new Dutch Covid-19 restrictions turned violent Friday night, and police said they arrested 51 people, fired warning shots and used water cannons to control rioters who pelted officers with rocks, burned cars and set off powerful fireworks. The city-center riot followed new government restrictions to combat rising infections and hospitalizations."

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/rioting-erupts-during-covid-19-rules-protest-in-the-netherlands-11637412545?

    The Dutch are not known to be especially violent or even especially angry people. Actually, they consistently rank among the happiest countries in the world. With Austria locking down because of Covid-19 again, and both Germany and the Netherlands looking like they're headed back into lockdown mode, as well, even the Dutch are losing their cool. You simply can't lock people down, force the economy to close, and not expect civil unrest as a result. Oppression breeds revolt, and when people lash out, they lash out at whatever was already bothering them.

    I maintain that the reason Trump lost in 2020 was because of the pandemic and the lockdowns. I maintain that the true cause of the riots and civil unrest we saw around the country in 2020 was the pandemic and the lockdowns. There have been regular George Floyd incidents caught on tape since the 1990s. If people hadn't rioted over George Floyd, it would have been over something else. I maintain that the ultimate cause of the Capitol riot on January 6 was the pandemic and the lockdowns. And I predict that if the U.S. locks down against this winter, we'll see more of what we had in 2020.

    1. Right-wingers all over the country are disappointed there wasn’t any rioting in Kenosha last night. No fuel for the partisan fire.

      1. Uh, sure they are. And all progressives are happily thinking that they will never have to riot again.

        1. Oh, there are left wingers a-itching’ for confrontation and violence, too. The two camps of extremists should go off somewhere and have it out, leave the rest of us alone.

          1. If you and other leftist shits didn't support 100 days of Portland riots, Kenosha probably doesn't happen.

            1. I think the prosecutor really blew it when he played down the seriousness of the riot in the opening statements. That may have been worse than the prosecutor falsely alleging that Rittenhouse chased down the people he shot. The jurors were from Kenosha. They knew the riot was serious, and I'm sure they resented the press, during the riots, playing down their seriousness. Starting off the trial by downplaying the rioting--to jurors from Kenosha--surely crushed the prosecutor's credibility with the jury from the beginning. The way to build credibility is to admit things that are true--even if they hurt your case. The way to destroy credibility is to say things that the jury knows aren't true--before you even get around to presenting your evidence. The prosecutor shot himself in the foot as he walked in the door.

              1. Luckily he didn't shoot anyone in the courtroom when he was brandishing the rifle.

              2. That is a groß kreuz the prosecutor will have to forever bear.

              3. Prosecutor blew it when he brought charges.
                Ken, ever dedicated to pretending the system works and that the totalitarian left will be peacefully voted out of power...

              4. It's typical of the culture we live in particularly amongst progressives. They repeat lies that are demonstrably false. Over and over again. The Rittenhouse case is a perfect example.

                1. EVERYTHING is a perfect example. That's why "Let's go Brandon!" is so amazing.

                2. Progressives "think" what they "think" for the same reason they "think" kittens are cute and flowers are pretty.

                  It has no resemblance to thought as we think of it. And they find the "kittens are cute" argument extremely persuasive.

                  We're talking about scraping the bottom of the IQ barrel here. Half of the American people are of below average intelligence, and I suspect progressives are disproportionately represented at the bottom of the barrel.

                  1. In some ways (math, economics, logic, consistent principles) progressives comprise an inverse Lake Wogebon, and they are all below average.

                    1. If they're overrepresented among college graduates, it's not like colleges are teaching critical thinking skills these days--or like you need critical thinking skills to get a job working for the government.

                  2. I don't think it's technically low IQ. It's critical thinking. Progressives are good at, and comfortable with, following arbitrary rules. They have weak instincts, so don't have difficulty following orders to behave contrary to human nature. But deep down, their nervous system is still aware that it is inferior which leads to feelings of resentment dominating. Thus, they favor more rules controlling more people for 3 reasons: 1- it gives them a competitive advantage over more talented but less obedient personalities, 2- it satisfies their malevolence toward nature, and 3- they can survive no other way.

          2. When are you leaving?

          3. Mike Laursen, the evil piece of shit liar, should kill itself.

      2. That's because all the fuel was burned in a previous mostly peaceful protest.

    2. Ken,

      I'm a numbers guy so I'm wondering what percentage of these formally happy Dutch protesters you think believe that Covid-19 was cooked up in a Chinese bioweapons lab by the CCP to thwart Dear Leader and international capitalism. You know the same theory you've been peddling here. Ballpark is ok. Thanks.

      1. You don't seem to understand my point, which is that the reasons people give for going bananas are often rationalizations--rather than legitimate explanations. Fear is the Mind-Killer. When people get scared and angry, they tend to get stupid, too. Civil unrest should be the expected reaction to lockdowns and economic collapse. That's been the standard response to those things since the beginning of civilization.

        Meanwhile, there's no good reason why we should expect the rationalizations rioters use to justify themselves to make any more sense than the riot itself. And, no, burning down stores in Portland because of something that happened in Minneapolis doesn't make a bit of sense. The rationalizations they make up after the fact are horseshit. Blaming Donald Trump for the lockdowns doesn't make any sense either.

        But why should we expect scared and angry people to behave rationally? More people lost their jobs in a shorter period of time than at any time in American history. They were angry and scared. That last explanation is consistent with 6,000 years of history. Romans behaved that way under similar circumstances. American colonials behaved that way when the British locked down Boston. Oppression breeds revolt.

      2. Or maybe they believe the lockdowns are 1000% overkill and ineffective and out of proportion to the real threat caused by COVID-19, which is mostly a danger to those over 65 and those with compromised immune systems.

        Or they are protesting against being forced to take a vaccine which hasn't eradicated the virus and which appears to lose effectiveness within a few months.

        Or maybe they are rationally trying to discourage the government from asserting arbitrary authority over their lives, before it becomes a pattern.

      3. https://twitter.com/JesseKellyDC/status/1462143464955592704?t=mfCl2hATjpW-z5orxOdffg&s=19

        QUESTION: I certainly don’t want to be accused of being “anti science” or spreading “misinformation, but does anyone know why more people have died from COVID in 2021 than died in 2020 when 75% of the adult population is “vaccinated”?

        1. I blame SleepyJoe.

          1. Unpossible. Any COVID deaths in 2021 are the result of Trump and the Jan. 6 Nazis.

            1. It was a super spreader event. And highly sexualized according to AOC. Probably cause an outbreak of syphilis too.

    3. Even though there was no rioting in Kenosha, that fraud that Trump has been searching for was uncovered. A Kenosha, WI voter fraudulently voted in Illinois for a Democratic U.S. Representative:

      http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20211118/news/211119189

      Why is the main stream press and unreason ignoring this story?

      I only found out about it accidentally when goofing for news on whether there was any rioting in Kenosha last night. Also, why is Google slipping up on suppressing news that is unflattering to liberals?

      1. I’ll bet the guy probably voted for Biden, too, handing Illinois to Biden.

      2. I don't get it? Are you trying to say one case of illegally voting somehow invalidates all the other massive cases of fraud?

        That's like saying bank robberies don't happen because someone pocketed a pack of Certs at the Circle K.

        1. "massive cases of fraud"

          That were carried out on the moon by the New World Order, amirite?
          Lol.

          1. Oh look.
            The same guy that spent 5 years trying to convince us that the Kremlin stole the 2016 election with pee tapes and $150k in Facebook ads -- now pretends that Democratic Party vote tampering is a unhinged conspiracy theory.

            1. WTF? You are unhinged (the massive fraud thing actually showed that already).

              1. So it's totally not crazy to spend five years screaming about Russians hacking the election, but to think that the party of Tammany Hall and the Chicago Machine would resort to stuffing ballot boxes, is insane?

                1. Did the lower gravity on the moon make it easier on the election frausters?

                  In other news, would you like to buy my tips on how to protect your house from Yetis?

                  1. Is that how Russia did it now?

          2. They smuggled in filled-in ballots from China. You can tell because there are bamboo fibers in the paper.

            1. Tell us again about pee-tapes, facebook ads, fire extinguishers and how Jan 6 was worse than 9/11.

              1. Lol, if it weren't for false equivalences, there'd be none at all.

                1. But all those were actual things you lefties actually claimed here.
                  You know what nobody claimed? That the Dems smuggled in filled-in ballots from China or the moon.

                  So shall we talk about your false equivalence?

                  1. Look, you're arguing with the wrong guy. I know there was fraud, as your Dear Leader said he was ahead on election day and then suddenly behind when they counted the 'mail in' votes. As you said they counted many of those on the moon where lower gravity caused the Trump ballots to carry off. Fraud has been established, you're not a crazy crank!

                    1. This posts QA (in a trollie manner):

                      It’s Not Real
                      It’s Russian Disinfo
                      It’s Real But Doesn’t Matter
                      It Matters But Not Very Much
                      This is Old News <-- YOU ARE HERE
                      Shut Up Racist

                    2. Cunt.

                  2. It's all about emotion. It's a religious revival going on in their heads. They're willfully delusional. That's what it takes to be heartfelt progressive. Facts and logic are their enemy, so they avoid them.

                    1. Facts and logic are their enemy, so they often go apoplectic after some of your posts.

                    2. That’s rich, considering that one do the common criticisms of myself, sarc, chemjeff, and others non-conservative libertarians here is that we don’t get passionate and upset about issues that get you guys worked up, even though we don’t disagree with you on the issue.

                    3. No Mike. All of your cry like little bitches when you get called out on your bullshit. Try some self realization.

            2. or they just dialed back the handwriting recognition software so signatures only required a 40% match, like in Nevada.

              or they tossed the ballot envelopes before the recounts could start.

              Oh wait, that really happened.

              1. “or they tossed the ballot envelopes before the recounts could start.”

                You know as well as I that that is done to preserve the secrecy of their votes.

                1. Pennsylvania law requires envelopes to be kept for 2 years of accurate counting and investigations into fraud dumbass.

          3. We know of 5000 double votes in GA, a few thousand in Arizona, illegal election changes in Wisconsin, illegal nursing home voting in Wisconsin. ...

            So we know of thousands of votes. What's your definition of massive? And thats just from states that looked.

        2. I don't know what else is being said, here, but the Capitol rioters were impacted by the same economic and social conditions that created all the other social unrest of 2020. When a hurricane comes onshore, it blasts wind and rain on progressives, moderates, conservatives and populists alike. When people are angry and scared, they fixate on the same things they were thinking before. It's just that being scared and angry takes your inhibitions down. Some people can't get the courage up to talk to a woman they want to meet until they've had a few drinks. Fear and anger work like that on the masses. Their inhibitions come down.

          1. “I don't know what else is being said, here…”

            Which explains why your comment is complete off topic.

            1. Which explains why you are reduced to not responding to the message.

              Pro tip one: discussions change direction. That is what discussions do. Those who complain of side topics are really complaining that the side topic is something they don't know how to deal with.

              Pro tip two: A discussion about riots is not limited to the riots and theme you choose. A discussion involves other slants on the subject, other themes. Those who complain of such puny changes in a discussion are those whose teleprompter has left them high and dry.

              1. You completely missed my point.

                1. What point? You were just shilling wildly without any real direction.

                  1. Non-secawturs are Dee’s speciality.

              2. I don't know what was said here, but if the gist of it is that I've drifted off topic, this subthread is all in response to my original post, which ends:

                "I maintain that the reason Trump lost in 2020 was because of the pandemic and the lockdowns. I maintain that the true cause of the riots and civil unrest we saw around the country in 2020 was the pandemic and the lockdowns. There have been regular George Floyd incidents caught on tape since the 1990s. If people hadn't rioted over George Floyd, it would have been over something else. I maintain that the ultimate cause of the Capitol riot on January 6 was the pandemic and the lockdowns. And I predict that if the U.S. locks down against this winter, we'll see more of what we had in 2020."

                ----Ken Shultz

                My post about hurricanes, the Capitol riot, the social unrest during the summer of 2020, and the impact of fear and anger on the masses was precisely on point. Because she can't follow a conversation, doesn't mean other people are off topic. That's classic projection.

                1. “I don't know what was said here…”

                  You could just stop there.

                  1. Hey look, it's people like Mike Laursen celebrating the murder of children:
                    https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1462613709583532032?t=bDodqccSTNt-LZNYH8VONg&s=19
                    Despite few details known about the deadly car-ramming incident at the Christmas parade in #Waukesha, Wisc., leftist accounts on Twitter are politicizing the incident because of their bitterness in the #Rittenhouse verdict. [Links]

            2. LOLGFl! The topic is "Will Massachusetts Make Life Sweeter for Home-Cook Entrepreneurs?"

      3. Dang, he crossed state lines! This should be a federal case.

        1. Did he dare change subjects? That’s worse.

    4. Ken's next revolt: standing in line! What a commie, oppressive regime!

      1. I don't get this one either. Are you actually trying to equate lockdowns with standing in line?

        You guys are a little lazy with the agitprop this morning. Did you get a pay cut or something? Are you now forty-centers?

        1. "Lockdowns" lol.

          At the worst of it I got McDonalds, walked and jogged every day, went to the grocery store once a week.

          You live off hyperbole like a baby lives off a pacifier.

          1. And let's be clear, they're whining about simple things like social distancing and masks. Yeah, I equate that with standing in line.

            1. and vaccine mandates and vaccine passports and election "fortifications" and censorship and out-of-control school boards and an FBI being used as a political enforcement arm.

            2. Yeah, I equate that with standing in line."

              1. That is by no means all that they were protesting. People are being locked in their house, fired from their jobs and denied entry to public facilities, you lying sack of shit.

              2. Social distancing and masks though incomparable with the other dystopian measures, are still petty, useless signaling and a horrendous infringement on personal autonomy.

              3. I say this without a hint of hyperbole; you're an actual, literal fascist.

              1. And a cunt.

                  1. OK. "She" is a dick. And maybe you, too.

          2. Yeah, the Dutch didn't get to even do that, which is why they're rioting. What happened in your town in America isn't what happened around the world, retard.

            Also, I'm guessing you didn't really read what you're trolling and had no clue it happened in the Netherlands.
            Maybe you deserve to be a thirty-center.

            1. Shorter Mother: Waah, people are telling me what to do!!!!

              Next day at work: Yeah boss, what do you want?

              1. Wait, did you just argue for government bootlicking on a libertarian board?
                You're so shit at this. If I were your boss at the fifty-cent factory I'd cut you down to twenty-cents.

                1. Why do I have to wait in line at McDonalds? These government bootlickers!!!!

                  Water the tree of liberty!!!

                  1. Everyone here has experienced the lockdowns. Nobody thinks it's remotely like a couple of minutes at McDonald's. I don't know who you think that you're tricking.
                    And to think you were just whining about false equivalancy moments ago. You're really not very good at your job.

                    1. I hope Mother will be the William Wallace to rally us against the tyranny of waiting in lines! FREEDOM

                    2. Explain your waiting in lines bit.
                      How do you figure a few minutes in McDonald's lines was the equivalent of being locked in your house and forbidden to go out for anything but essentials?

                      It's time you unpacked your allegations.

                    3. Queen cleans the restrooms at McDonalds.

                  2. Mother is a disingenuous piece of garbage that never argues honestly. One of the first three I put on mute.

                    1. Are you accusing him of being your sock?

                    2. Rich praise from an idiot troll and the comment section's chief shitposter.

                      I wear sarcasmic's opprobrium like a congressional medal of honor.

                2. Mother: Lines are such socialist tyranny. Wait your 'turn?' Like we all have an equal one? Mine is SPECIAL!

                  1. Lines aren't, but lockdowns sure as hell are, shill.

                    1. Shrike isn't a libertarian. He actually applauds government over reach.

                  2. waiting in lines isn't tyrannical, but it is the natural consequence of too much government involvement in the economy, inevitably leading to shortages

              2. that's right, mock people who have jobs

        2. "I don't get this one either. Are you actually trying to equate lockdowns with standing in line?"

          They made it against the law to go to work or open your business.

          Tens of millions of Americans lost their jobs.

          If she's equating standing in line at McDonalds to the lockdowns, then she's an idiot.

    5. The Dutch rioters were setting shops and cars on fire. That’s wrong when they do it just like it is wrong when American leftist protestors do it, right? Are we all agreed on that?

      1. You defended blm doing it.

      2. The politics of the protesters is what matters, not what they actually do. Duh.

        1. Right? Just like January 6th.

          1. Sarc spent all day yesterday lamenting how much it sucked Rittenhouse was found not guilty.

            1. And as a result, the Mute Bowl prize went from a half a truck of Beast Ice to about a third.

        2. No, skin color is the most important thing.

    6. I thought it was well-known that the lockdowns were the direct cause of the riots. I don't mean well-reported; the media would never admit that the mostly peaceful Burn Loot Murder squad was the result of DNC policies. But I have always thought most people knew the reality that the lockdowns and economic shutdowns left a lot of idle bored and angry youths peacefully burning looting and murdering.

      1. when something is easily predicted, you can't discount that it was intended. as Ken pointed out, police shootings and misconduct happen all the time, and previous incidents sparked mostly local protests/riots in the city where they occurred.

        COVID gave governments the chance to lock everyone down to be seen "doing something", but also to crack down on (mostly Republican owned) small businesses to the advantage of more easily manipulated big businesses, to put people on edge to protest against Trump, and to ease vote by mail rules (sometimes illegally so) to increase low-information voter turnout (which favors the Dems) and enable more widespread ballot harvesting (which is legal in some states).

        1. Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence.

          1. and most of the time that makes sense. other times you have to wonder if everyone running things is stupid and incompetent, or just counting on other people to be so.

            1. There’s no contradiction at all between attributing stupidity and incompetence to a political group, and not attributing malice toward them.

              I personally believe the Democrats display a lot of stupidity and incompetence. For the most part, though, I don’t see malice; I see good intentions.

              And when I say that someone has good intentions, don’t take that as my paying them a great compliment, or excusing what they do.

              1. Incompetence, stupidity, and especially malice describe Mike Laursen's very being.
                It is evil, and it must be stopped.

          2. But it’s more fun engaging in paranoia.

            1. And then there's the intersection of malice, incompetence and paranoia, where you and sarc like to post from.

        2. My contention has always been that the lockdowns were a deliberate Hail Mary from Democrats frustrated that they could not shame Trump the way politicians are supposed to be shameable. Everything they tried -- two impeachments, pee tapes, Russian fakery -- everything just made him laugh back harder, and his backers loved him even more, while his opponents couldn't hate him any more.

          Along came the chance to do something Trump couldn't stop or block or do himself, they grabbed it. They didn't pause for a second to plan the followon step, they didn't think for a minute on what the ramifications could be. They were just throwing everything they could get their hands on against the wall (see the two impeachments for examples) and something finally stuck.

          Zero planning, zero thought, pure reaction, pure luck.

          1. How about this: lockdowns were a dumb and overreactive, but sincere, effort to stop the spread of a deadly disease.

            1. Why are you trying to highlight the sincerity? What does it add to the discussion? Why are the politicians you claim are sincere constantly violating their own rules?

              Youre an idiot.

            2. deadly disease

              Gathering up your petticoats and screaming about a mouse.

            3. If you think that totalitarianism is ok because it's sincere, you need to be beaten to death

      2. The first people laid off were mostly workers in the service industries, too. They're likely to be younger, not making much. They're working as waiters. They were working retail. And they all lost their jobs. There's no mystery about the likely outcome of that. That's been a recipe for social unrest since forever.

      3. They rioted for the same reason Brown Shirts rioters- Party orders

      4. "I thought it was well-known that the lockdowns were the direct cause of the riots."

        Oh no.

        The riots were a generational reaction to the racism of police departments all over America and the Americans who are still willing to tolerate it.

        1. And the reaction to the racist Dutch!

          1. Didn't they cheat Native Americans out of Manhattan Island or something?

            If they're white, they're racists.

            1. Probably gave them some blankets then Dutch ovened them. The natives were agassed.

              1. Not to Boer you with this, but if you’re taking cheap shots at the Dutch for racism, try South Africa…

    7. There were a few riots in the usual places last night, Portland, Chicago, and New York, apparently sponsored by the "Party for Socialism and Liberation" if you check out the signs. Pretty half-hearted though, probably because of the cold weather, and maybe the realization that the case against Rittenhouse wasn't particularly strong to begin with.

      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10223639/Kyle-Rittenhouses-acquittal-sparks-protests-nation.html

      1. Protests and riots and socialist encampments tend to dry up when it gets cold outside.

        1. The ongoing white-people BLM demonstration that happens near my house sure dries up when the rain starts.

          1. Don’t doubt it. Rain and cold weather take the fun out of demonstrating.

          2. They are afraid that the water from the rain will dissolve their candy asses.

    8. I dunno, Rotterdam was was Gabber was invented, which is pretty angry music

  4. Hey look... great minds think alike.

    https://denver.cbslocal.com/2021/11/19/denver-attorney-files-civil-action-in-kyle-rittenhouse-shooting/

    All that MAGAt money coming in to pay for this idiot might be going straight to antifa. As I was saying yesterday I'm an 80s guy and 90s cusp so I leave you with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jne9t8sHpUc

    1. Good morning numbers guy!

      Check out these numbers: In barely 10 months the Biden economy has already concentrated an additional $392 billion in the hands of the 10 richest Americans.

      Now, as a "socia1ist" you know what you have to do, right? That's it — brag about how much money you make and insult Rittenhouse's family for being poorer than you!

      #VoteDemocratToHelpBillionaires

      1. Hilariou.s This poor guy can't even maintain his parody comments because of his anger.

        Farmers for Trump be So Angry (fertilizer regulations!).

        1. Even funnier, you couldn't type "hilarious" properly because of yours.

          1. Mother so angry about fertilizer regulations.

            Tyranny!

            1. Queen Anathema is so pissed off about his billionaire patrons being criticized, he thinks we'll care about imaginary fertilizer regulations.

              1. Lol, Mother will fight those billionaires by hurling tax cuts for them at them!

                1. You mean you're not going to hand them unprecedented wealth and power via anticompetitive regulations?

                  What changed?

                  1. Alright you meanies, now I'm going to reduce your taxes!

                    Take THAT!

                    Lol

                    1. So no corporatism and tax breaks for everyone?
                      Maybe you just hit your head bet you're starting to sound less fascist and more libertarian than you ever have before.

                2. It's parody vs. parody.... popcorn time.

              2. He's angry because he want's to riot and can't decide what dress to wear.

        2. 1. I'm not a parody.
          2. I've stated many times I'm nonbinary and use they / them pronouns. You managed to misgender me 3 times; that's literally anti-LGBTQ+ violence.

          Do better.

          1. You don't do parody well, if that satisfies you.

            1. He does it wonderfully. You guys are the ones who can't meme.

              1. A simple man has a simple caricature of his enemies in his mind.

                A simple caricature is therefore wonderful to him.

                1. And you've certainly made it clear that you're quite simple.

                2. And it hurts the most when they (not he/his/him) are spot on, doesn't it?

            2. As atonement for the violence of misgendering me 3 times in a single comment, please make a $1,000 donation to a charity for at-risk LGBTQ+ youth.

            3. You don't do parody well, if that satisfies you.

              Actually OBL is pretty good at it (with caveats).

              Since I am the closest thing to a "liberaltarian" here among the posters (not counting the Reason staff) I can comment freely.

              I don't get all worked up about immigration so OBL scores there. Where OBL fails is the Woke stuff. I call a tranny a tranny because I won't allow that once hip word to be maligned ("Retard" is similar).

              Liberaltarians/Cosmotarians don't have any progressive characteristics. I am pro-choice because I support bodily autonomy (like euthanasia) and not because I care about "womyn".

              I am secular and progressives did not invent it Thomas Jefferson predated progressives.

              But us classic liberals are not so easy to spoof so OBL has to take some leaps.

              Now on to football.

              1. You're the closest thing to Rosenbaum here.

            4. OBL brings joy and laughter into my my on a daily basis. Your homophobic personal attacks on them elicit only anger and consternation. You are fortunate that they are a principle person who does not respond in kind.

    2. "His clients are the family of Joseph Rosenbaum, one of those who died. And Gaige Grosskreutz who was wounded by Rittenhouse’s gun. He has already filed a lawsuit against Kenosha authorities and its police."

      Schwab said he will raise questions, “How did the police respond were the police too cozy with vigilantes walking the streets enforcing their own justice?”

      ----American Socialist's link

      The lawsuits in question appear to be mostly directed at the Kenosha police department--rather than Rittenhouse.

      Rosenbaum is the guy that threatened to kill Rittenhouse and then, according to multiple witnesses, tried to pull the gun away from him. I'm not convinced the simple majority of a jury would find that Rosenbaum didn't at least contribute to his own death with those actions by a preponderance of the evidence. I don't see anyone who was shot that didn't contribute to the situation in some way. Do you? Who?

      Likewise, didn't Grosskreutz, the other plaintiff, go on national TV under questioning and admitted that he pulled a gun on Rittenhouse before he was shot? What makes you think a jury is likely to find for the plaintiff and rule against Rittenhouse in that case? Which one of these people do you think has a case against Rittenhouse by a preponderance of the evidence? I don't see any good reason to believe this trial would have gone differently under the auspices of a civil trial.

      I think this is why the plaintiff's attorneys are trying to sue the police in Kinosha for being too cozy with "vigilantes" to protect the public. That article you linked doesn't seem to say what you think it says.

      1. Seems like the police were too cozy with the protestors, to the point where "vigilantes" took it upon themselves to help protect the town.

        1. Yeah, I wouldn't want to be the lawyer making the case that the cops were on the side of the vigilantes--to a jury from Kenosha--either. If anything, the people there are probably pissed off about the cops not coming down hard on the rioters. They really do need to tailor their message to their audience, And if their message is actually tailored to a national narrative of progressives, that's further evidence that it probably isn't a serious case.

          PETA sometimes sues people just to get their message in the news--like when they sued the California Dairy Association for false advertising because their ads said that, "Great cheese comes from happy cows, and happy cows come from California". They demanded that the California Dairy Association prove that California's cows are actually happy. They just wanted a public platform, and filing a controversial suit gave them the necessary attention.

          That happens a lot.

    3. Something tells me that "Denver attorney Milo Schwab" is going to milk Democrat donees for fees until they dry up, and then resign from the case.
      He's gonna make a pile from gullible, angry lefties.

      1. And then he will run for Congress no doubt.

  5. The Byzantine regulatory labyrinth of Massachusetts would make diehard soviets jealous.
    Had to do a small project there once. Regulators sent a 17-page guidance document one aspect of the work. Thankfully, they had no legal authority to oversee things and we ignored them. One of the contractors brought it up and they were told to do what they were paid to do and not be a Karen.

  6. The ongoing 'Unite the Right' (Klan, Proud Boys, NAZI party, Oath Keepers) civil trial is still ongoing and it is much more entertaining than the Rittenhouse trial.

    Defendant uses neo-Nazi propaganda to make closing argument in Charlottesville white supremacist trial

    One defendant compared himself to Jesus. Another ranted and showed videos of protesters chanting, “White lives matter.” A lawyer played a five-minute neo-Nazi propaganda video in his closing argument.

    It was a wild final day in the courtroom of U.S. District Judge Norman Moon, who is overseeing a landmark civil trial over the deadly Unite The Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia. The lawsuit seeks millions in damages for nine plaintiffs injured during the rally. Attorneys for the plaintiffs say their goal is to financially cripple the defendants, a who’s who of the American racist right, and ensure nothing like Charlottesville ever happens again.

    That weekend in August 2017, clean-cut white men marched with lit tiki torches chanting, "Jews will not replace us." Fights broke out between white supremacists and counter-protesters. Neo-Nazi James Fields drove his car into a crowd, killing Heather Heyer. Fields was convicted of murder and sentenced to life in prison.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/11/18/charlottesville-white-supremacist-lawsuit-goes-jury/8674688002/

    What a circus. The Unite the Right Defendants have openly used the N-word in court, made racist and antisemitic jokes and spoken at length about their admiration of Adolf Hitler.

    They are judgement proof and know it. So the spectacle goes on.

    1. When is the trial for the ringleaders of the 9 / 18 SECOND INSURRECTION BY RIGHTWING EXTREMISTS you warned us about 5 days in advance? Surely the astronomical casualties of that tragic day justify mandatory life sentences for all involved.

      #9/18WasWorseThan9/11
      #ButtplugHasTheBestIntel

      1. Any of you Peanuts attending?

        That was my entire "warning" per your link.

        But damn, that was a smooth link placement as it got some gooselike feathers ruffled.

        1. Don't be so modest. Rightwing terrorism is literally at epidemic levels in the US — with a far higher bodycount than "Black on Black murder in Democrat-run cities" or whatever conservatives whine about — and your daily intel briefings help me stay safe.

          I stocked up on food and water in the 48 - 72 hours ahead of 9 / 18 so I wouldn't have to leave home that day. I think now I have what's called "survivor's guilt," but at least I'm not dead like those poor souls who perished in the SECOND INSURRECTION BY RIGHTWING EXTREMISTS.

    2. Heather Heyer was murdered. For trespassing on public property. Just like Ashli Babbitt. But unlike with Babbitt, it was done by a government agent who will not answer for his crimes.

      1. Lol, yes, Heather was climbing through a window during a riot and that guy just killed her.

        1. Heyer was actually creating a greater disturbance by blocking traffic. Felony climbing through a window?

          It is sad to see that progressives and neo-nazis both justify the use of deadly force for wrongspeak. Like the Stalin-Hitler treaty.

          1. Shrike Queen Anathema is the point on the circle where those two inclinations meet.

          2. Spoiler alert: progressives are new nazis

        2. The return of queen asshole!
          How can we miss you if you won't stay away?
          FOaD, shitpile.

      2. A link yesterday says the woman identified as dying from drugs as an OD may have been beaten to death by cops at the tunnel.

        1. The "deadly insurrection" included 3 additional protestors dying due to "natural causes" from "medical emergencies". No one seems to be blaming the police tear gas used. If police had shot an unarmed protestor in some other riot, and 3 people died from tear gas, every city in America would have been burned down.

          1. Here's the link Jesse was talking about. It's starting to look like the Capitol Police perpetrated two murders that day.

            https://amgreatness.com/2021/11/18/terror-in-the-capitol-tunnel/

          2. Sure, believe that if it helps you excuse the January 6th rioters.

            1. Because Laursen believes the people who said that Sicknick was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher, that poo was smeared on the Capitol walls, that zipties were brought by protesters to bind politicians, that AOC had to run for her life, that the protesters were armed and that the whole thing was worse than 9/11.

        2. Died from COVID. Next.

  7. Unite the Right's head Neo-Nazi says about the usefullness of Dylann Roof:

    Roof "had no future" and so was "exactly the kind of person who should be committing acts of mass murder," said Cantwell's guest, a guy from the neo-Nazi gossip blog The Daily Stormer. Cantwell agreed: "Not everyone's going to be a professional propagandist, shall we say. Some of us got to be fucking cannon fodder for the race war."

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/19/us/unite-the-right-trial-charlottesville-rally/index.html

    1. Rosenbaum’s Buttplug.

      1. When your Nazi commanders hand out assignments are you going to be cannon fodder like Dylann Roof or a propaganda artist like Alex Jones?

        1. In December 2002, a court in Pima County, Arizona, sentenced Rosenbaum to a decade in prison on child molestation charges. He spent just over 14 years in prison and committed dozens of disciplinary infractions, state records show.

          Rittenhouse testified that he acted in self-defense after Rosenbaum threatened to kill him and tried to grab his gun.

          Drone footage of the encounter shows Rosenbaum chasing Rittenhouse before the teenager turned around and fired four shots at close range, fatally striking Rosenbaum.

          Hours before the fatal encounter, Rosenbaum had reportedly been released from a local hospital in the wake of a suicide attempt. Rosenbaum had pending charges in Wisconsin for alleged domestic abuse and jumping bail at the time of his death.

          Rosenbaum’s Buttplug indeed.

          1. "Rittenhouse testified that he acted in self-defense after Rosenbaum threatened to kill him and tried to grab his gun."

            My understanding is that Rosenbaum's threat to kill Rittenhouse was independently corroborated by another witness during the trial.

            If you don't want people to think you're trying to kill them, threatening to kill them is a terrible way to go about it.

        2. turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
          If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
          turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

    2. There was as much stuff that actually happened in that article as a Harry Potter book.
      CNN is the chief publisher of boomer fiction.

      "Oooh, look out Grandma! The Death Eaters QAnon white supremacists are coming."

      1. That article brought my attention to Unite the Right org:

        Vanguard America is an American white supremacist, neo-Nazi, neo-fascist organization. The organization is also a member of the Nationalist Front.[1][2] The group gained significant attention after it was revealed that James Alex Fields had marched with them at the Unite the Right rally before being arrested on murder charges.[3][4] The group has its roots in the alt-right movement.[

        Wikipedia

        Wow, there are so many of you guys out there.

        1. Rosenbaum’s Buttplug is an American organization geared at pulling together rights violating groups such as NAMBLA, the ACLU and the DNC in an effort to bring children of all races together so they can be molested.

        2. Aren't Vanguard America the ones who endorsed Joe Biden because Trump was a Jew-lover in Israel's thrall? Richard Spencer endorsed Biden too if I remember rightly.

          What exotic circles you do run in, Shrike.

        3. Turd lies; it’s all he ever does. Turd is a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
          If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
          Turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

    3. That Rittenhouse verdict really stings, doesn't it?

      1. His bum is as sore as the children's in his basement.

  8. Wyoming's Food Freedom Act openned the door to sale of fresh chilled poultry, beef, lamb and pork at local farmers markets. Since it began, five years ago, ZERO incidinces of food borne illness from proteins or what the article refers to as high risk food.

    Food must be labeled with you name, contact info, contents and date made, beyond that, just do it.

    The Department of Ag and Public Health fought these laws every inch of the way --- they only wanted to deal with a few mega-conglomerates, and micro manage those.

    1. As I text this, I am in the hospital from food poisoning from Kentucky Fried Chicken and am dealing with the shortage, bureaucracy, and bullshit that has come to Medicine from both Statism at home and the WuFlu from Red China.

      Cottage food cannot possibly be worse than what I got from Kentucky Fried Chicken! Bring it on and Fuck Be Unto Joe Biden and Fuck Be Unto The Colonel!

      1. That sucks. Hope you recover quickly.

        1. As of now, I have my discharge papers and I am waiting to go home. More details on this thread.

      2. Sorry to hear that you are in the hospital.

        Are you saying that shortages of hospital resources comes from COVID-19 directly, when there is a vaccine all those people in the hospitals could accept that would keep them out of the hospitals? Are current hospital shortages also caused by diphtheria?

        1. "Sorry you're sick, but can I take this opportunity of your illness to bang on about my Democratic Party talking points?"

        2. The biggest shortages that made my stay more miserable than necessary were of diagnosis devices (specifically the CT scanner and Ultrasound) and the shortage of Doctors serving the floor and shortage of seamless communication between staff and patients.

          There was only on CT scanner and Ultrasound station serving the whole hospital, which means that I had to wait in line behind other patients, and when waiting for a CT scan and Ultrasound, the patient can have no food or drink.

          Between the last time I ate Friday and the time of my CT scan on Saturday Evening was a total of 31 hours, 24 of which were related to the line for the devices.

          And all of this because hospitals are limited from accessing more devices by government requirements for "Certificates Of Ñeed." Even if hospitals didn't use the devices often, hospitals could just rent the devices as needed...if only government wasn't in the way.

          "Certificates Of Need" probably limited access to anti-nauseants that went into my IV. The delayvin anti-nauseants, in turn, limited my ability to shower safely. I was marinating in my own stench and filth right up until this afternoon. Who knows what sort of infections could have resulted from that.

          There was only one Doctor serving the patients on my floor, a problem made worse by the American Medical Association wanting to use government to limit training institutions, residencies, and internships.

          And, of course, the government restrictions upon COVID-19 tests at the beginning of the Pandemic exacerbated the spread of the virus, which meant only one person at a time could visit patients, which makes getting necessities to patients a real problem. (Not everybody carries spare underwear or toiletries in their pocket.)

          Taken all together, government's role in the realm of medicine, far from helping, violates the Physician's first job: "First, Do No Harm.".

          1. But the Gov motto is first do harm, then claim an emergency, then claim emergency powers

            1. And, of course, have good intentions. /sarc

      3. Hope you feel better soon!

        1. That you so much on that, Ken. Now I'm out, there will be more time to disect and respond to your many posts. 😉

        2. I wish you a speedy full recovery as well—-and a well-earned rest!

          1. I got out yesterday. Now it's just a matter of staying on track with my battery of antibiotics.

      4. We've had our scraps, but I genuinely hope that you feel better soon, Encog. Food poisoning is a bear.

        1. Thank you and no biggie. Make sure your Canadian Bacon and Maple Syrup are well-sourced and well-done. Food is too precious a need to treat lighly.

      5. In retrospect, the food poisoning may not have been from KFC after all but a 24-hour stomach bug that still has no cure, but my KFC experience before this one was especially greasy, so quality control does vary.

  9. https://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status/1462004154281259013?t=gkDVHsKV5saJSmnBi1wcgw&s=19

    The jury got it right—finding Rittenhouse not guilty on all charges. The fact that charges were brought before any serious investigation is evidence that the government was motivated by politics, which itself should be considered criminal. [Video]

  10. Protestors waved the Palestinian flag in a protest against the Rittenhouse verdict. The trial got caught up in a left-wing narrative that defies facts. The protests are just left-wingers trumpeting their usual causes.

    1. https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1462177628580941828?t=MDBRhAf5LysGkG_09gJ0lA&s=19

      NOW - Crowd chants "the only solution is Communist revolution" at Chicago's protest against the Rittenhouse verdict.
      [Video]

    2. Right next to the Palestinian flag should have been a placard with an arrow pointing toward the flag and the slogan: “The prosecution’s charges ARAFAT lie!”

    3. I didn't know the Palestinians had claims in Wisconsin. 🙂

  11. Did Austria start a rebellion today? That footage!

    1. Nope. 5 cents in the oops jar.

    2. All Austrians think about is putting a shrimp on the barbie.

      1. Well, that and invading Hungary.

        1. They only had one shrimp on the barbie hence the desire to conquer being Hungary.

          1. And they didn’t even pick up the Czech.

          2. Perhapsburg but they don’t have to Budapest about it!

      2. I've heard of Rocky Mountain Oysters, but not Alpine Shrimp. I shudder to think what that really is.

    3. "Is Paris burning?"

  12. As long as they don't... cross state lines *dun dun duuuuuunnn* I'm good with it.

  13. "Frustration mounts" when homelessness starts encroaching on the upper middle class white progressive folks.

    Ten months ago, Melissa Meier and her husband, Dean Oquist, moved to Edmonds. They sold their home of 27 years in Seattle’s Phinney Ridge.

    “I loved living in this area. I walked around Green Lake three times a week. I met with friends for walks and rowed in the Green Lake crew team for a season,” Meier remembers.

    For the couple, it all began changing during the pandemic, as Seattle’s homelessness crisis pushed ever more visibly into this neighborhood, as it did around the city.

    1. If we can believe the polling, and I would add election results, the Democrats are losing support from white college educated upper middle class voters. This was a key constituency that along with the millionaire class allowed them to win elections after pissing all over non union blue collar voters. Whether it's CRT, radical transgender policies, rioting, crime or bums shitting in their front yards these people are being forced to confront their own progressive assumptions.

    2. How are the Portland riots going by the way? Looks like the cops and the cold are keeping Kenosha quiet.

  14. Vaccinated English adults under 60 are dying at twice the rate of unvaccinated people the same age
    And have been for six months. This chart may seem unbelievable or impossible, but it's correct, based on weekly data from the British government.
    https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/vaccinated-english-adults-under-60

    1. Statistics are tricky, aren't they?

      This result COULD BE that the vaccine is literally killing people.

      Or, it COULD BE due to the changing membership over time in the two populations, 10-59 year olds who are vaccinated vs. 10-59 year olds who are unvaccinated. Since older people are more likely to get vaccinated than younger people, over time, the vaccinated category will tend to skew older, the unvaccinated category will tend to skew younger, and older people generally die at higher rates than younger people anyway. So this trend could also be easily explained by simply noting that old people die more frequently than young people, having nothing at all to do with the vaccine itself.

      But, I am sure there are demagogues right now posting this on Facebook to all of their friends shouting SEE? SEE? THIS IS PROOF THAT THE VACCINE IS POISON!!!!

      This is why it really is irresponsible to present these types of statistics in a vacuum without suitable explanation and interpretation. Because it is very easy to draw the wrong conclusion from a statistical data set.

      1. Because it is very easy to draw the wrong conclusion from a statistical data set.
        Just like you did.

        1. It's funny how age matters when discussing the vaccinated, but was completely irrelevant to pre or non vaccinated analysis.

      2. Exactly. If the data disagrees with the narrative in our ActBlue memos we should immediately declare it suspect.

      3. Sorry for the late reply.
        "Or, it COULD BE due to the changing membership over time in the two populations, 10-59 year olds who are vaccinated vs. 10-59 year olds who are unvaccinated. Since older people are more likely to get vaccinated than younger people, over time, the vaccinated category will tend to skew older, the unvaccinated category will tend to skew younger, and older people generally die at higher rates than younger people anyway. So this trend could also be easily explained by simply noting that old people die more frequently than young people, having nothing at all to do with the vaccine itself."
        Berenson points this out in the link and does not claim that the data proves that the deaths are caused by the vaccines. It is however the type of statistic that should at least lead to further investigation. This of course will not happen.
        There is a lot of emerging evidence that excess deaths (not caused by covid) have increased in recent months. There may be plausible explanations for this that have nothing to do with covid vaccines. But considering the fact that millions have received this experimental treatment it seems worthy of investigation. That of course will not happen either.

    2. On the one hand, I don't know how to account for it, but on the other hand, I suspect there's more than one explanation of the vaccine itself.

      My first suspect would be selection bias.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection_bias

      There may be more than one relevant factor that makes a difference between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated--in addition to being over 60.

      The explanation, whatever it is, certainly deserves serious consideration.

  15. People appear to die at rates 20 percent or more above normal for weeks after receiving their second Covid vaccine dose, according to data from a huge Swedish study.
    https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/another-major-red-flag-about-covid
    Over a one-year period, that rate of death would translate into an annual mortality rate of about 2.5 percent a year - 1 person in 40 - almost three times the overall Swedish average. In a typical year, about 1 in 115 Swedes dies.

  16. Prosecutors Find Mail-In Jury Votes At 3AM, Rittenhouse Now Guilty
    https://babylonbee.com/news/after-prosecutors-find-mail-in-jury-votes-at-3am-rittenhouse-now-guilty
    KENOSHA, WI—In a stunning reversal, Kyle Rittenhouse awoke this morning to discover that he had been found guilty after all.
    Prosecutors explained that during the night, they had found dozens of mail-in jury votes declaring the defendant guilty on all counts. Apparently, boxes of these mail-in votes arrived in a truck at the courthouse around 3:00 am.

    1. Ha! So there were uncounted jury votes. How do you like that, Peanuts. Turns out your little nazi wasn't unguilty after all.

  17. A new drink called the Rittenhouse:
    A chaser followed by 3 shots

    1. I’m stealing that.

      1. Came from a firearms channel.

    1. Mostly peaceful protests.

      1. Except for the 3 unarmed protesters who were shot and wounded by the police. But if they were trespassing on public property, it's understandable.

        1. Or if they were attempting to put out a fire.

    2. So I saw the actual video from Austria (original video was a fake of football supporters). It was decent but not as large or vocal as the football fans. And maybe that is the measuring stick.

  18. Massachusetts lawmakers may soon blow up what is currently one of the nation's worst cottage food laws.
    actinic keratosis new york

  19. I am happy to see the results of Joe Biden's routine colonoscopy has seen the doctors declare him fit to successfully execute the doodies of the Presidency.

    1. A colonoscopy? Perhaps he could use a buttplug too.

      1. turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
        If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
        turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

    2. Guess Biden will again plop himself at the desk in the Oval office.

      1. Movement detected in the Oval Office! (Type of movement has been redacted)

  20. When you look over this thread, and you don't see the progressive trolls, just look at the responses to their comments--it becomes painfully obvious that they're just talking about their feelings, like they're the dumbest people on the face of the earth.

    When you cite facts and use logic, they act like you've changed the topic or they're oblivious to what you've said--because facts and the logic don't change their feelings. I'm sure that's because their claims have nothing to do with anything but their personal feelings.

    They want Rittenhouse to go to prison because they're angry and don't like racism. This is more or less the extent of their progressive "argument"--on this and every other topic.

    You guys should really consider muting these people. There is nothing to learn from them. They have nothing to share. Their only purpose is to distract, and if that isn't their intentions, they're so stupid, those might as well be their intentions anyway.

    Their only response to your facts and logic is to tell you about their feelings, why bother interacting with these people? Smashing their stupid comments isn't even good for batting practice! It makes you think you're doing better than you are--when they aren't even pitching, really. It's like playing Tee-ball.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUDsOkGwPHk

    1. It’s sort of like rubber necking at car wreck scene. It’s an awful thing to see, and you are glad it isn’t you.

    2. I wonder if this is not dissimilar to how Homo Sapiens branched forth adjacent to and beyond H. Neanderthalensis . If you accept the theory of evolution.

      Homo Progressive may be a form of devolution.

      1. They are not engaging their higher brain functions. They're proceeding based solely on their emotions. What they "think" genuinely has nothing to do with facts and everything to do with feelings. The idea that you would feel one way and think something different is completely alien to them. Facts are things that don't change depending on how we feel about them--so they don't care about facts. And they don't understand 1) why we try to change their feelings with facts and 2) why we don't feel the same way they do--despite the facts. I'm not trying to insult them, exactly, but the truth is insulting to them. Presenting them with facts and logic is like handing a scientific calculator to a chimpanzee. They understand the words we're using, but their significance completely eludes them--when they contain facts and logic. They don't understand why we keep talking about things that have nothing to do with their emotional state.

        There are some working hypotheses in behavioral science that suggest consciousness is not the default state for lots of people. We've all had the experience where we drive the same route to work everyday, and we kind of go into autopilot after a while. Sometimes, you may even find yourself parking the car at work without really remembering exactly how you got there. You know you drove there, but you weren't really doing it consciously, so you don't remember. Well, some people are like that most of the time. They talk and hold conversations, but they aren't really consciously doing anything. They jolt awake when they're physically injured or lose a job or something like that, but they spend the most part of every day in something like a dream state. When we interact with these progressive trolls, I think we're probably dealing with people in a state like that.

        Most of their life is sleepwalking.

    3. Progressives aren't dumb. They just let their emotions and feelings replace reason and principles.

      Oh, wait.

      1. There's actually a compelling, old theory that schizophrenia, as we have it today, is a genetic throwback to an earlier state of human development. In this earlier state of development, people's thoughts and feelings and the things they saw and heard--were all part of the same thing.

        I don't know if you're familiar with the mirror test, which is one method some scientists use to measure consciousness in animals. Certain species, like dolphins, elephants, and chimpanzees, can recognize themselves in a mirror. Other species, like dogs, cannot. Have you ever watched what a dog does in a mirror?

        At first, the dog will usually bark at the dog in the mirror, play with it, or try to interact in some way. After a while, they may realize the dog doesn't have a smell, but, for whatever reason, they start ignoring their reflection after a while, like it doesn't matter. They seem to treat it like one of their dreams.

        Well, the interesting thing is that human infants also can't pass the mirror test initially. You may have heard that infants don't realize that the tiny hands they see waving back in front of them are attached to them and under their control. Their consciousness develops over time, but initially, they're like animals who can't distinguish between themselves, their feelings, and the rest of the world.

        Whether almost everyone was like that in the ancient world is an open question, but whether infants and animals have a less developed form of consciousness, there really isn't much debate on that part. Regardless, different people, presumably, develop differently, and I strongly suspect that people with less developed consciousness are overly represented among the all-feelings progressive trolls we encounter here at Reason.

        Fact and logic and conscious thought all seem to elude them. It's not that they can't read the words and understand what they mean. It's that when they look in a mirror, they don't see their own reflection. They live in a world where how they feel is the only thing that's really important. The rest of it--like facts and logic--is irrelevant in their "real world".

        1. “It's not that they can't read the words and understand what they mean.”

          LOL, you have all the commenters who you purposely misclassify as “progressives” muted, so you literally “can’t read the words” they have written. Doesn’t stop you from writing a 500-word essay commenting on comments you have not read.

          This is hilarious.

          1. You were muted, Mike, because you're a shitposting troll who launched a harrassment campaign against Ken, all because he criticized your Democrats.

            In fact Ken certainly isn't the first person who's muted you for trolling, and won't be the last.

            1. You have to wonder about her psychological health, too.

              Would a psychiatrist see somebody that spends hours and hours obsessively trolling someone, who's muted her for months, look at that person and say, "Yeah, that's psychologically healthy behavior"?

              I don't think so.

              1. Here turd, Tony, asshole Joe, Mike, MG, and several others get nothing but insults and/or their comments jammed back in their faces and spend hours getting that treatment most every day.
                There has to be some sort of masochism involved, but whatever it is, I'm glad there are at least two screens and a server between those twisted personalities and me.

                1. Yeah, there's something weird going on there, too, but being followed around because you blocked somebody's phone number is like crazy ex-girlfriend kind of behavior. I don't see a reasonable explanation for that. So, you just ignore. They do seem to get some kind of rise out of being abused by the commentariat. Whatever they're trying to accomplish, though, it isn't working--unless they're trying to make progressives look weird, sick, stupid, and wrong.

                  1. Maybe heckler’s veto. It is their emotion overcoming their logic. Some of them understand their arguments are flawed. And some are just selfish and are fine satisfying that through whatever direction gets there.

                    1. "Ken as a “thought leader” for MAGA

                      The real Trumpers around here know that I oppose Trump on trade, and I opposed him on immigration. They know that I support trade with China, vociferously, and that I also support an open borders treaty with Mexico (and why). They also know that I support Section 230--and that's just the beginning.

                      But I'm a leader for MAGA?!

                      The real MAGA people here disagree with me on a whole slew of issues. She's just not smart enough to understand what I write. The only thing everybody here seems to agree on is that she's an idiot troll. Because people of all persuasions agree that she's an idiot troll, I'm their leader?! Everyone here disagrees with me about something--and they're plenty vocal about it, too. She's just a moron.

                    2. "...Maybe heckler’s veto..."
                      But they do not get the "veto". No one with any sense quits calling them on bullshit when any of those assholes posts lies or other forms of mendacity. turd doesn't get a pass when he tries that 'sloppy pullout' crap; even OBL is on his ass about that.
                      Tony (I think on the Shaman thread) claimed there is no evidence of property damage or injuries from the BLM riots! (gimme a minute - there it is):
                      Tony
                      November.19.2021 at 12:38 pm
                      Flag Comment Mute User
                      "There is no evidence that Antifa engaged in any significant violence, actually."

                      That sort of Big Lie bullshit (and he's not alone) suggests we're dealing with psyches far more damaged than that; these are people who, as Ken mentions, are far too stupid to remember the lies they post, but beyond that are so abysmally stupid to hope lies of that magnitude will pass muster.
                      There are likely more than one issue here; turd admits to a coke habit, Tony and sarc have alcohol issues; perhaps others have chem problems on top of hoping to blame others for their failures?

                  2. LOL, nobody is “following” you around. I comment on a few of the many, many comments you post each day on pretty much every Reason blog post, like while I’m on the toilet.

                  3. I comment on your posts because you are a “thought leader” among supporters of Trumpian Republicanism here. And your reasoning is often flawed, and I wish to oppose that flawed reasoning.

                    1. I comment on your posts because you are a “thought leader” among supporters of Trumpian Republicanism here.

                      Mike is certainly fine with designating Ken as a “thought leader” for MAGA, but shrieks bloody murder when anyone else does the same to him. Even in this very thread.
                      https://reason.com/2021/11/20/will-massachusetts-make-life-sweeter-for-home-cook-entrepreneurs/?comments=true#comment-9222972

                      What a dishonest hypocrite he is. Is there a more mendacious troll here?

                  4. Mike is completely fixated on Ken. It is top shelf, stalker ex-girlfriend territory here. Totally pathological. Mike fabricates whatever garbage is needed to generate a post under Ken to satisfy those urges. But those urges return…as do Mike’s posts under Ken.

                    1. "...It is top shelf, stalker ex-girlfriend territory here..."
                      Wonderful description!
                      Asshole Mike assigns all his/hers imagined bullshit to Ken and then hopes no one will notice that Ken never posted anything like that!
                      Commie shit did that down-thread, assuming his fantasy was some sort of 'gotcha'.
                      THX to Ken for keeping the assholish lefty shits ducking and weaving.

            2. "You were muted, Mike, because you're a shitposting troll who launched a harrassment campaign against Ken, all because he criticized your Democrats.

              In fact Ken certainly isn't the first person who's muted you for trolling, and won't be the last."

              If any of them ever write something that's worthy of a response, let me know. I doubt they could write a compelling counterargument on a dare. Like I said, facts, logic, and their significance completely elude them. They don't think like this on purpose. They may not be developmentally sophisticated enough to do anything on purpose.

              It's all just emotion. They're just telling us how they feel, and they're deeply offended--not just that we don't feel the same way. They're deeply offended that we don't think their emotional state is on the same footing as reason and logic--not that they can really tell the difference between what they think and how they feel.

              1. They wanted Rittenhouse convicted not because they can point to a law or laws he violated but because of feelings.

                They can emotionally identify with the rioters, folks that were mad about something and decided to destroy the property of a third party that happened to have more stuff than them. Rittenhouse being present just made it more challenging for them to have that emotional release of destroying someone else’s property. So it was emotionally acceptable for four of the rioters to attack Rittenhouse, including with deadly weapons. And when Rittenhouse didn’t go along with those plans, they became even more emotionally outraged.

                1. When we see people protesting against the Rittenhouse verdict, who are they protesting against? Do they want the jurors to come back and change the verdict? Do they want the judge to reopen the trial Of course not. They're protesting against the rest of America for not feeling the same way they do. It's all about their emotional state. They're throwing a temper tantrum, and they want us to notice and care about how they're feeling.

                  P.S. Fuck Joe Biden.

                  1. They are promoting the use of violence and deadly force when they didn’t get a hug that morning and don’t have things other people have. Angry jealousy is their emotion. One of the signs at the Kenosha rally today said, “Now the gloves are off.” They were off when four violent rioters assaulted Rittenhouse with deadly weapons. They were off when they were burning buildings. They were off when they were attacking shop owners. Yet their call for violence is working. See America, summer 2020 for evidence.

                  2. LOL, if you had actually read my comments on the Rittenhouse story, I have not made a single comment or protest about the verdict. I accept the verdict.

                    You went off on a whole tangent yesterday about what you presume I would say about Rittenhouse and Wisconsin hunting laws — but I haven’t said any of the things you predicted I would say.

                    1. I have not made a single comment or protest about the verdict.

                      What garbage, you shitposted and trolled every comment you could find supporting Rittenhouse.

                    2. "...I accept the verdict..."

                      "However..."
                      "But..."
                      "There are issues..."
                      Steaming pile of lefty shit.

    4. Wow. All that is obvious is that, since you have us supposedly progressives (we are not, we are libertarians) muted, you have no clue what we actually said in our comments.

      You are totally arguing against a straw man.

      1. No. You say the same shit all the time. Totally predictable.

      2. He muted you because you're a troll, Mike. As you've gloated about before when asking for trolling assistance from the comment's biggest shitposter.

        Mike Laursen
        September.18.2021 at 11:38 am
        SQRLSY, can you cover for me today? In a typical day I like to:
        - post a comment or two pointing out logical flaws, contradictions and partisanship in Ken’s essays.
        (Translation I troll Ken regardless of what he said)
        – post a comment or two pointing out that Ashli Babbitt was not a saint and deserved what she got.
        – post one “Fuck Tulpa!” comment"

        That's why people mute you Mike. You're a shitposting troll.

      3. "...(we are not, we are libertarians)..."

        No, you're a lying pile of lefty shit and no one is fooled.
        FoaD.

    5. I like to see their comments, and the rational responses, because I'm going to be better prepared when I hear the same arguments from folks in meat space.

      1. But they're just talking about their feelings. Addressing their feelings with facts and logic, when they recognize neither, is like trying to use your tools to build a car out of a glass of water.

        They don't care whether they're wrong or right. They don't care whether what they believe is based in fact. They don't care whether what they believe is irrational. I'm not sure batting practice is what you're getting with this.

        I think you're just being trolled.

    6. Tell us more facts about how Covid was designed in a Chinese lab, Ken. Or how it doesn’t matter if you’re right. You’re the fact man here. I’m just emoting.

      https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm4454

      1. I've already set you straight on this once.

        My position has never been that the pandemic definitely originated from Wuhan--only that it probably did (at most). However, my position has always been that the NIAID and the NIH were extremely irresponsible to fund extremely dangerous research in a Chinese laboratory with a terrible safety record and a history of doing research for the Chinese military. And that remains my position, on both counts, today.

        If you can link to me saying something else, I'll be glad to look at it. Inked to the study you linked there myself--almost as soon as it came out. You seem to be touting it as some kind of proof that the pandemic didn't originate in the lab, but that isn't what it says--and that isn't what it means. It just means that the possibility of the animal vector hasn't been completely ruled out yet. Getting another piece of the puzzle is not conclusive.

        I'd amend my conclusions if I'd ever concluded that the Wuhan Institute of Virology was definitely the source of the pandemic. I believe I've always been careful to conclude that the evidence seems to have pointed to the Wuhan Institute of Virology--even before that report you linked was published (November 18th?), I always said that the WIV was a serious possibility. That report in Science doesn't claim to disprove that conclusion, and I don't see any reason to amend it now.

        My conclusion is that the WIV could have been the origin of the pandemic, or it might not have--and that Fauci, the NIAID, and the NIH were incredibly stupid to play with matches near the gas can in the garage. If the reason the house burned down turns out to be because of faulty wiring or a lightening strike, that still doesn't mean that Fauci, the NIAID, and the NIH were smart to play with matches near the gas can in the garage. You're not defending the funding by Fauci, the NIAID, and the NIH with this post, are you?

        1. Here I am on May 12, 2021:

          "The evidence is publicly available.

          The question isn't whether they funded this research. That is already established independently from publicly available documents.

          The question is why they financed it, why they financed it in China, and whether they should continue to do so.

          There's an open question as to whether this is the actual cause of Covid-19, but that's like the question of whether they killed someone with their drunk driving. The question isn't whether they were driving drunk. They were. It looks like they did something that maybe should be done--but they did it in a terribly incompetent way at the very, very, very least."

          ----Ken Shultz

          https://reason.com/2021/05/12/did-covid-19-leak-from-a-wuhan-lab/?comments=true#comment-8900619

          Do you see the part where I said that the pandemic definintely began in a lab in Wuhan?

          I see the part where I said it was still an open question.

        2. Here I am in July of 2021:

          2) Does this analysis account for Covid-19's CGG-CGG combination?

          "In fact, in the entire class of coronaviruses that includes CoV-2, the CGG-CGG combination has never been found naturally. That means the common method of viruses picking up new skills, called recombination, cannot operate here. A virus simply cannot pick up a sequence from another virus if that sequence isn’t present in any other virus.

          Although the double CGG is suppressed naturally, the opposite is true in laboratory work. The insertion sequence of choice is the double CGG. That’s because it is readily available and convenient, and scientists have a great deal of experience inserting it. An additional advantage of the double CGG sequence compared with the other 35 possible choices: It creates a useful beacon that permits the scientists to track the insertion in the laboratory.

          ----Steven Quay and Richard Muller

          https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-science-suggests-a-wuhan-lab-leak-11622995184

          I offer the following argument crafted from the statements in Quay and Muller's piece.

          ----General Premise: “In the entire class of coronaviruses that includes CoV-2, the CGG-CGG combination has never been found naturally”.

          ----Specific Premise: “It was this exact sequence that appears in CoV-2”.

          ----Conclusion: Therefore, “the scientific evidence points to the conclusion that the virus was developed in a laboratory”.

          While that doesn't necessarily prove beyond any doubt that Covid-19 was a product of the experiments Fauci's NIAID funded in Wuhan, it's seems more than enough evidence to refute the assertion that Covid-19 couldn't possibly have come from the experiments Fauci's NIAID funded at the Wuhan Institute of Virology."

          ----Ken Shultz

          https://reason.com/2021/07/23/is-anthony-fauci-lying-about-nih-funding-of-wuhan-lab-research-or-is-rand-paul/?comments=true#comment-9008522

          Do you see the part where I said that this proves Covid-19 was definitely created in a laboratory?

          Because I see the part where I said that it doesn't.

          1. I can't believe this went through with two links!

            Can everyone else see the post above?

            1. Ken, you engage that asshole and mute others; I'd suggest, as most:
              "FOaD, commie shit."
              S/he deserves nothing more.

          2. Amsoc is trolling you so you’ll use time and care to respond.

            1. He asks me to defend myself, and I responded.

              This is the second time he's asked the same question, though. It really doesn't need to be asked again--unless he's ignoring my responses after reading them or not reading them at all. Still, ask me a legitimate question, and I'll give him a response.

              And I've been wrong about things, too. I love when I find out I'm wrong about something from other commenters--with some facts and a well-reasoned argument. It means they're making me smarter.

              1. Ken: Democrats are totalitarians, while Republicans are mere authoritarians, and totalitarians are like much worse and stuff.

                me: No shit Sherlock, but we're not talking good or bad, we're talking degrees of bad.

                Ken: Totalitarians want to control what you think and do, while authoritarians merely want to control what you do.

                me: So you're saying libertarians should vote for authoritarians because they're less-bad than totalitarians?

                Ken: THAT'S NOT WAHT I MENT I MUTE YOU NOW YOU HATE TRUMP AAUUUGHHH!!11!one!!!11!!!!!!

                1. You can't honestly argue against Ken's points, so you have to make a fake Ken and argue with him instead.

                  You know how everyone mocks you for never being able to quite understand what strawmanning actually is? It's what you're doing here.

                  1. sarc and reality are not on speaking terms.

              2. He’s a dishonest poster. You can do what you want. But he is just trolling knowing you’ll take time to post a lengthy reply.

      2. I've looked through that article and it:

        1. Doesn't analyze or discuss the genomic structure of the virus. Specifically the repetition of segments consistent with lab manufacture. Other research demonstrating it was man made have looked at the structure.

        2. Doesn't dismiss the fact that infected lab animals slated for disposal found their way to the markets.

        3. The graphic shows that most of the initial cases cluster between the Yangchahu Market and the Wuhan Institute of Virology Wuchang Campus. Not centered on the markets themselves.

        I'm guessing that you didn't actually read it. Did you.

    7. It's like playing Tee-ball.

      While not keeping score.

    8. Ken, why don't you tell us all once again why you thought it was appropriate to cast doubt on the legitimacy of election results, *EVEN IF THE RESULTS REALLY ARE LEGITIMATE*, because to do so would undermine Biden's agenda, and you saw no issue with destroying the entire institution of peaceful transfer of power via elections in order to stop one man. Why don't you tell us all how this "factual and logical" and not a paranoid, emotional overreaction based on your hatred of progressives.

      Better yet why don't you tell us all how this entire comment of yours isn't just a giant troll job coming from you, since you are smart enough to understand the strawman fallacy, Mr. Factual and Logical.

      You're not a Vulcan, Ken.

  21. Democrat DA facing recall election in San Francisco, due to events like this that resulted from his failure to prosecute criminals:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10226929/Gang-80-thieves-ransacks-California-Nordstrom-store-organized-raid-lasted-just-one-minute.html

    1. I support every DA who embraces the Koch / Soros / Reason #EmptyThePrisons agenda. Occasional shoplifting is really no big deal.

      #CheapLaborAboveAll

      PS — We must not rule out the possibility that these events are actually staged by rightwing infiltrators, like the fires you saw on TV during last year's #BLM protests.

      1. So what? They have insurance, right?

    2. They're more than a DA away from fixing that place.

    3. I just looked to several other news sources because I couldn't believe this was true. This happened. We're living in a third world country.

      Carry guns.

      1. I get the liberal impulse to not "ruin someone's life" over a one-time shoplifting incident. But a thousand dollars is a pretty high threshold. And since the new law passed a lot of these crimes are organized, with multiple people stealing a few hundred bucks worth of stuff for a gang, and getting a cut. It's like a self-organizing AI.

  22. Rally in Kenosha. One sign: “Workers United Against Facism”

    Reporters look to be 25% of the crowd. They are saying kind words for the convicted child molester that assaulted Rittenhouse.

    1. His predilection for diddling young boys is not relevant to his chasing down Rittenhouse while screaming "Shoot me, Nigger!"

      1. The local woke pastor called Rittenhouse a murderer. If there isn’t a civil conviction (or a federal suit), Rittenhouse could make a lot of coin getting progressives for slander and libel.

    2. from "The Party for Socialism and Liberation," but BLM is totally not a Marxist front.

    1. That's hilarious, their lawyers must have shit themselves. What a turnaround, the viewers are going to get whiplash.

    2. Interesting, all of that public information that they "just learned."

  23. Government hack hopeful infants can be injected with experimental gene therapy, to protect them from a danger that doesn't exist, by 1st quarter 2022.
    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/fauci-says-babies-toddlers-eligible-covid-jabs-q1-2022
    Next up, puberty blockers injected in the womb for fetuses with signs of gender dysphoria.

    1. The vaccine is not a panacea,” said Ana Bento, an epidemiologist at Indiana University-Bloomington.
      Tell that to the guy who financed the creation of the virus..

    2. Confused clump of cells?

    1. Europeans should be protesting outside the World Economic Forum complex in Geneva.
      Cut off the head of the snake.

  24. Thank god the adults are in charge now.
    https://archive.fo/zdp55

    1. I blame SleepyJoe.
      Worse than Trump!
      IMPEACH!

      1. Umm everything is Tump's fault. Try to keep up.

    2. From your article:

      The milestone comes as Covid-19 cases and hospitalizations move higher again in places such as New England and the upper Midwest, with the seven-day average for new cases recently closer to 90,000 a day after it neared 70,000 last month.

      Covid-19 has proven to be an enduring threat even in some of the most vaccinated places, many of which are confronting outbreaks again now, as the world prepares to live with and manage the disease for the long term. In Europe, parts of Austria, Germany and the Netherlands have imposed new restrictions in recent days after Covid-19 cases rose and hospitals came under strain."

      Just throwing it out for consideration, but this may be about winter setting in--and we're talking about parts of Europe and the U.S. where winter is really starting to kick in. Let's hope it doesn't come to lockdowns in the U.S. again--because if it does, there's gonna be trouble.

  25. Bunch of Karens whine about women with penises.
    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/feminist-group-sues-california-over-pro-lgbt-prison-policies-endangering-female-inmates/
    According to the suit, plaintiff Krystal Gonzalez says she was sexually assaulted by a biological male transferred to Central California Women’s Facility under the law, known as the Transgender Respect, Agency, and Dignity Act, or SB 132. When Gonzalez filed a grievance and requested to be housed away from men, the suit says, the prison’s response referred to her alleged attacker as a “transgender woman with a penis.”
    “Krystal does not believe that women have penises,” the lawsuit says, “and the psychological distress caused by her assault is exacerbated by the prison’s refusal to acknowledge the sex of her perpetrator.”

    1. “Krystal does not believe that women have penises,” the lawsuit says, “and the psychological distress caused by her assault is exacerbated by the prison’s refusal to acknowledge the sex of her perpetrator.”

      She's practically Hitler. Not letting a musclar 6'2", 265lb woman bend you over and give you a size 7 poop chute, is white supremacy or something.

    1. https://twitter.com/DavidBegnaud/status/1462607551464366082?t=D0OK1b1pKMq2DxWJ6M1rJA&s=19

      #waukeshaChristmasParade Latest:
      *20 + people hit by driver who drove through barricades
      *12 of the victims are children
      *There are “fatalities”
      *1 cop fired his gun to try to stop driver, police say
      *A person of interest is in custody
      @cbs58 has more: [link]

    2. At this point, 5 dead over 40 injured. This account mentions the driver being a “suspect” fleeing from another crime scene. We’ll see how this grotesque tragedy plays out.
      Waukesha: Five dead after car ploughs into Wisconsin parade https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59369492

  26. I like Really Like your post... You can also read my post
    https://bit.ly/3xdToU6

  27. From upthread and it is a wonder to me that lefty piles of shit continue to show up here for abuse; some some observations:

    Sevo
    November.21.2021 at 12:12 pm
    Flag Comment Mute User
    Here turd, Tony, asshole Joe, Mike, MG, and several others get nothing but insults and/or their comments jammed back in their faces and spend hours getting that treatment most every day.
    There has to be some sort of masochism involved, but whatever it is, I'm glad there are at least two screens and a server between those twisted personalities and me.

    Ken Shultz
    November.21.2021 at 1:15 pm
    Flag Comment Mute User
    Yeah, there's something weird going on there, too, but being followed around because you blocked somebody's phone number is like crazy ex-girlfriend kind of behavior. I don't see a reasonable explanation for that. So, you just ignore. They do seem to get some kind of rise out of being abused by the commentariat. Whatever they're trying to accomplish, though, it isn't working--unless they're trying to make progressives look weird, sick, stupid, and wrong.

    Chumby
    November.21.2021 at 1:30 pm
    Flag Comment Mute User
    Maybe heckler’s veto. It is their emotion overcoming their logic. Some of them understand their arguments are flawed. And some are just selfish and are fine satisfying that through whatever direction gets there.

    Ken Shultz
    November.21.2021 at 7:58 pm
    Flag Comment Mute User
    "Ken as a “thought leader” for MAGA

    The real Trumpers around here know that I oppose Trump on trade, and I opposed him on immigration. They know that I support trade with China, vociferously, and that I also support an open borders treaty with Mexico (and why). They also know that I support Section 230--and that's just the beginning.
    But I'm a leader for MAGA?!
    The real MAGA people here disagree with me on a whole slew of issues. She's just not smart enough to understand what I write. The only thing everybody here seems to agree on is that she's an idiot troll. Because people of all persuasions agree that she's an idiot troll, I'm their leader?! Everyone here disagrees with me about something--and they're plenty vocal about it, too. She's just a moron.

    Sevo
    November.22.2021 at 12:08 am
    Flag Comment Mute User
    "...Maybe heckler’s veto..."
    But they do not get the "veto". No one with any sense quits calling them on bullshit when any of those assholes posts lies or other forms of mendacity. turd doesn't get a pass when he tries that 'sloppy pullout' crap; even OBL is on his ass about that.
    Tony (I think on the Shaman thread) claimed there is no evidence of property damage or injuries from the BLM riots! (gimme a minute - there it is):

    Tony
    November.19.2021 at 12:38 pm
    Flag Comment Mute User
    "There is no evidence that Antifa engaged in any significant violence, actually."

    That sort of Big Lie bullshit (and he's not alone) suggests we're dealing with psyches far more damaged than that; these are people who, as Ken mentions, are far too stupid to remember the lies they post, but beyond that are so abysmally stupid to hope lies of that magnitude will pass muster.
    There are likely more than single issues involved here; turd admits to a coke habit, Tony and sarc have alcohol issues; perhaps others have chem problems on top of hoping to blame others for their failures?
    Other than that, WIH causes that sort of self-damaging behavior?

  28. cas 203849-91-6
    https://adc.bocsci.com/product/mmad-cas-203849-91-6-463586.html
    Monomethyl auristatin D (MMAD), a potent tubulin inhibitor, is a toxin payload and antibody drug conjugate.

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