Tonight on The Independents: Red Meat Wednesday With Ron Paul, Peter Suderman, Maggie McNeill and More, Talking About War, Obamacare, the V.A., Prostitution, and Pot

Keeping with tradition, tonight's episode of The Independents (Fox Business Network, 9 p.m. ET, 6 p.m. PT, with re-airs three hours later) features some hardcore libertarian action, including:

* Ron Paul (check out his new Voice of Liberty project here), who will expand on his controversial assertion that "Without US-sponsored 'regime change,' it is unlikely that….the Malaysian Airlines crash [would] have happened." Paul will also weigh in on the situation in Gaza.

* Peter Suderman, who will heroically fill in for an ill Kmele Foster, and take lead wonk role in discussions about the future impact of yesterday's Obamacare rulings, the latest tech problems with Lois Lerner's hard drives, and a new report on easy-does-it Obamacare fraud.

* Maggie McNeill (see her Reason TV interview here), who will comment on the World Health Organization's recent report claiming that decriminalizing prostitution will improve health outcomes and slow the spread of HIV.

I will again be hosting the show. Outnumbered co-host Jedediah Bila will be subbing in for Kennedy. Party Panel is The Blaze national security chief (and former CIA employee) Buck Sexton and Red Eye co-host Joanne Nosuchinsky, who will talk about the Veterans Administration's call for $17.6 billion in additional fix-it money, Snoop Dogg's claim to have smoked weed at the White House, and a new study proving (duh!) that socialists are big fat cheaters.

Follow The Independents on Facebook at facebook.com/IndependentsFBN, follow on Twitter @ independentsFBN, and click on this page for more video of past segments.

Comments

[Duke]

At least the picture of Ron Paul is flattering.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Hello.

[WDATPDIM!?]

Fast forward to prostitution.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"an ill Kmele Foster."

Well then get well soon. Or did you mean "ill" in this sense:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVZEM3nRr5o

[Duke]

Thank you NGKC for referring me to this enlightening comment:

Lenard Conroy via Google+
you think eminem is god and king of rap pppppfffftttttt whatever he sux balls compare to beaste boys .... beasty boys are way better and they are the true king of hip hop/rap?

[Hyperion]

Prostitution, and Pot

It's always about prostitution and pot with you libertarians, isn't it? Heathens!

[Christophe]

Marrying a same-sex illegal immigrant prostitute and getting high while the child laborers hired by the unlicensed catering company serve you undercooked meat from various endangered species.

What did I miss?

[Raven Nation]

meat from various endangered species.

Also fun:

http://www.exoticmeatmarkets.com/

[Furburguesa]

While shooting guns

[Tejicano]

I was gonna say...

[Notorious G.K.C.]

prostitution - the lash (S&M)

pot - rum

sodomy - sodomy

The British Navy was libertarian!

[Brett L]

And cocaine and gypsy cabs unlicensed fancy internet enabled car services. Duh.

[Max Power]

Don't forget Mexicans, and ass sex.

[Max Power]

and food trucks

[Trouser-Pod]

Don't forget Mexicans, and ass sex.

This sounds like it should be one of the greatest quotes of all time from some hollywood produce back in the 40's. 😉

[Max Power]

It's from John, right? He said all reason cares about is pot, Mexicans and ass sex.

[Trouser-Pod]

It may be. I was just in a whole other frame of mind with my input.

By itself, your line is a fantastic statement for just about any conversation.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Sums up my college experience.

[Calidissident]

And Tony thinks that all they care about are tax breaks for the Koch brothers and screwing poor people.

[Trouser-Pod]

Well, I'm damn sure not gonna go quoting it.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"Federal undercover investigation signs up fake applicants for ACA coverage, subsidies"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....story.html

[Matt Welch]

BTW, I heard through the grapevine (*cough* SUDERMAN *cough*) that Gilmore outed himself on last night's thread as a ... New York-based DJ? Dude, if you are really in New York, writing all that great fashion commentary, and you haven't come hang out, then I just don't know what. Why don't you send me an email?

[Hyperion]

Look, Matt. The only fashion comments you need to read, are mine, not Gilmore's. Gilmore cannot help you, but I can make you a super star, if only you would listen.

[GILMORE]

Oh, Matt.... I stopped being cool ages ago.

That was when I was young and ambitious. I was a bedroom production-musician with a weekly DJ gig @ the 205 Club for like 5 years. I havent been hip in ages. I sold my soul and went to work in finance. (Naturally, finance imploded shortly thereafter)

I will hit someone @ reason up and maybe we can catch a drink sometime in the city or bklyn. I'm out of town for the summer, unfortunately.

Moynihan used to appear @ my local watering hole on occasion - although that was when he was working for Vice.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Aren't you a Mountain Dew analyst? You're doing God's work.

[GILMORE]

I dew the Dew as they say

[Episiarch]

GILMORE is an EXTREME analyst! He also rides a mountain bike to work. Yeah, he's that much of an asshole.

[GILMORE]

For the record, i'd never ride a bike in NYC.

I tried, briefly, after college, back in the 90s. It was terrifying. Maybe now they have bike lanes and stuff, but forget it. I don't need that kind of stress.

[Episiarch]

That was the joke. Only assholes ride bikes in NYC. Then again, most bike riders are assholes anywhere. Even Kevin Bacon.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I'm out of town for the summer, unfortunately.

And where do you summer? Tuscanny, or Ibiza?

[jesse.in.mb]

By the way, my work conference in NYC is Thursday (10/23) through the weekend. I'm trying to figure if I'm inviting myself to stay with friends or not for the time I'm not at the conference before I pad the trip on either side with vacation time.

[entropy_factor]

one request from the greatest state in the Union-

for the love of God Matt, throw on a bolo tie just once. Not only will eagles soar and Ron Paul shed a tear, but you will finally match Kmele's dress level.

For real tho, that guy is always on point.

[Cytotoxic]

"Without US-sponsored 'regime change,' it is unlikely that....the Malaysian Airlines crash [would] have happened."

Jesus Christ would Ron Paul just die already? Or at least STFU before he ruins his son's presidential run? This guy is a Rothbard-esque blight on libertarianism.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

But he hasn't gotten to the Bilderburgers yet?

Mmmm...Bilderburgers...they're a great fast-food restaurant...go to the drive-through and you don't have to tell them anything, they already know what you were going to order.

[Calidissident]

He's gotten progressively worse since he's left office. I guarantee that rand's opponents will tie his dad around his neck during the campaign.

[Len Bias]

Exactly what I was thinking. Rand is going to be in a terrible position in future debates by having to both speak well of his father and distance himself from the more ridiculous positions.

[Jesus H. Christ]

I wonder if Rand's people could find some stupid shit said by the parents or siblings of Liewawatha or Shrillary?

[Suthenboy]

So, if Ukraine had remained a Russian puppet, had we not helped them seek independence and sovereignty, the Ruskies would not have had to shoot that airliner down?

C'mon Ron, that is not controversial it is ridiculous.

Again, this is not about Putin or even Ukraine. This is about Russia keeping it's only warm water port. It doesn't matter who is in charge in Russia. They are going to have it if they have to sacrifice a million Russians and a million Ukrainians. Unless we are willing to go into an all out war against the Russians there is nothing we can do about it.

The wisest course would be for Russia to offer something in exchange for Crimea and land to secure it and for Ukraine to accept. That is the only peaceful course to be had.

[Cytotoxic]

"B-b-but Jews The Banks! American Empire NEOCONS" /Paul

[Bo Cara Esq.]

His argument is that if we did not encourage Ukraine to split with Russia the current violence which caused the shooting would likely not have happened .

Do you think if Ukraine had not started to 'face West ' that Russia and it's Ukrainian supporters would be engaged in this battle, or that the US played no role in it?

[Calidissident]

Is there any evidence that the us played any sort of instrumental role in the revolution?

[Bo Cara Esq.]

It would be hard to say it didn't have some influence. By their own admissions Western NGO's spent a considerable amount of money and effort in that area, and some of those NGO's are cozy with our state department or EU equivalents. Likewise the Clinton and Bysh administration clearly encouraged former Warsaw Pact nations to increase ties with West, economically and militarily. It'd be hard to say those efforts didn't bear some fruit in startling Russia making it more sensitive to further similar moves by border nations

[Calidissident]

It's a bit of a stretch to go from "Western NGOs were active in the country" to "The US and EU were responsible for the coup" and then deflect blame from Russia for this incident. I'm also curious as to how stronger economic ties are objectionable to a libertarian?

[Bo Cara Esq.]

If all we did was make free trade pacts with them and other local countries I'd be surprised if Ron would have any complaint.

[GILMORE]

You act as though you have no idea that the point of the Ukranian protests in the first place was to enable their country to engage in "free trade pacts" with European nations and distance themselves from their strict, Russo-centric ties.

Oh, wait! You dont. You're an *idiot*

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Yes Gilmore, there was no other context or information relevant there. No decades of aggressive NATO expansion of local nations, no talk of middle defense systems being put in those nations, no billions of dollars in US 'aid' "targeted to promote political and economic reform" (wkipedias us-Ukraine relations page), etc. Nope, just a trade pact.

Stick to your silly fashion reviews.

[Calidissident]

I wonder why those countries wanted to join NATO. Not that I think NATO is of any use to the US these days

[MWG]

"Ron Paul (check out his new Voice of Liberty project here) who will expand on his controversial assertion that "Without US-sponsored 'regime change,' it is unlikely that....the Malaysian Airlines crash [would] have happened.""

Please don't.

[Raven Nation]

I'm also getting more annoyed by referring to it as a "crash."

[MWG]

It was the result of the rocket discharging.

[MWG]

Sorry. Missile.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Missiles were fired, planes were hit.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

What the Middle Eastern equivalent of a Godwin?

"(Reuters) - The head of Iraq's largest church said on Sunday that Islamic State militants who drove Christians out of Mosul were worse than Mongol leader Genghis Khan and his grandson Hulagu who ransacked medieval Baghdad.

"Chaldean Catholic Patriarch Louis Raphael Sako led a wave of condemnation for the Sunni Islamists who demanded Christians either convert, submit to their radical rule and pay a religious levy or face death by the sword."

http://www.reuters.com/article.....R120140720

[Suthenboy]

I apologize for running out on our discussion yesterday. I lost track of time. I looked up and saw I was going to be late for my designated driver night. Margarita night for my wife and her friends. I just jumped up and ran away.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Don't apologize for doing your husbandly duty!

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

You're a hero. What do you get in return?

[Brett L]

Tequila sex being the obvious answer?

[GILMORE]

"'Without US-sponsored 'regime change'... it is unlikely that....the Malaysian Airlines crash [would] have happened.""

Ignoring the ridiculous 'butterfly effect' level of causation assumed in that particular statement...

... what specifically does he mean by "US-Sponsored regime change"?

Does Dr Paul completely discount the millions of Ukranians who took to the streets throughout the winter and called for their leadership to step down? Does he blame THEM for the deaths of the people on that airplane?

Does opposition to "US Intervention" in military affairs necessitate believing completely absurd notions of US Omnipresent-and-Omnipotent Meddling, such that any and every world event can be in some way blamed our particular posture at the time? Even if the CIA had connections (and they did!) with some people in the Ukranian opposition, what does that really even have to do at all with current events?

This kind of arbitrary causation is the same kind of idiotic rationale that another might make to justify exactly the opposite view = IF THE US HAD ONLY INTERVENED SOONER AND DECLARED AND MAINTAINED NO-FLY STATUS OVER UKRAINE, IT NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED!

Its brainless shit like this that kept me away from RP from the very start. And which helps perpetuate an image of libertarians as 'fringe-y, isolationist conspiratorial types'

[Episiarch]

I have a feeling that Ron, since he is now out of office, has decided to corner a particular part of the "market" he operated in before, probably because it gets him speaking gigs and other income. He decided to go with the more conspiratorial route. It probably makes sense from a career after politics angle for him.

[GILMORE]

The Alex Jones demographic is surprisingly rich-pickings.

But pathetic. I wish he'd keep his yap shut for the sake of his son.

[BakedPenguin]

This. I like Ron, but that's just... wacky.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

It's him being consistent. He doesn't like meddling in other nation's affairs because of the usual libertarian belief of where such meddling usually leads in most spheres. And he applies that to military intervention as much as covert actions to diplomatic pressure and the use of NGO's to influence the civil society and governments of other nations.

Since Clinton the US and these affiliated NGO's have encouraged former Soviet nations to split from Russia, join NATO, and generally embrace the West. Anyone with a sense of Russian history and culture could see that would threaten them (imagine if Russia were inducing Mexico and Canada to break from Nafta, make military alliances with Russia as well as trade pacts) and provoke nastiness.

[Duke]

"It's him being consistent. He doesn't like meddling in other nation's affairs because of the usual libertarian belief of where such meddling usually leads in most spheres."

I have to agree with Bo here. Although RP's thoughts on causality is pure conjecture and probably entirely wrong. Of course I also agree with Gilmore that he says some crazy crap sometimes.

[Calidissident]

I'm pretty sure that those countries (or large factions within them) had strong desires to rid themselves of Russian domination after the soviet collapse, independent of what the US did. There's no equivalence to be made here, nor is there evidence that the US or EU was primarily responsible for the change in government. US approval =/= the US did it!

[GILMORE]

Thanks Bo!

now please explain how supporting a Eurocentric, Western Aligned Ukraine makes the US culpable for the shooting down of a passenger aircraft!

Once you've done that, you too will be *logically consistent*

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Who said 'culpable?' Ron is just asserting our efforts led to the situation which caused the result (a but for cause if you like)

[GILMORE]

You should explain this to the millions of Ukrainians who've spent the last 20 years thinking *they* were the ones struggling to regain control of their country from russian-puppet cronies.

Little did they know they were simply pawns in the great mechanizations of the US State department!

You're a fucking idiot, bo.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Things that matter happen on the margins Gilmore, and those things can be critical at 'tipping points.' I don't doubt many Ukranians despise Russia and/or felt their best interests lay elsewhere, but without the efforts of the US government and allied organizations would things have gone how they did when the did in Ukraine? And Russia have been so sensitive to such a move?

Again, imagine a foreign power successfully convincing the nations surrounding us to turn away from us and toward them, and then one of them has a revolution in which organizations known to be affiliated with that power played a not insignificant role. We might be willing to intervene militarily or covertly, maybe we'd even arm irresponsible factions (let's call them 'Contras' for the heck of it) in the surrounding nation, and they might do something stupid and deplorable. Would it be wrong to say if the foreign power had not engaged on this route that likely wouldn't have happened?

[GILMORE]

You're still a fucking idiot, Bo.

And not going to entertain your Deconstructionism-by-question-mark bullshit tonight. Thanks

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

There was a good quote floating around about Bo this week. Anyone want to link to it?

[GILMORE]

"
Pl?ya Manhattan.|7.23.14 @ 8:36PM|#

There was a good quote floating around about Bo this week. Anyone want to link to it?
"

he's a fucking idiot?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Francisco d'Anconia|7.21.14 @ 2:38PM|#

...You are a complete fucking pedantic asshole, who likes the sound of his own voice, always needs to be the center of attention and has a psychological problem admitting he's wrong. You are an arrogant little child-man. You are like arguing with a 14yo.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

I like that quote and especially Playa's use of it here, because it really shows you how some people on here's real problem with me has nothing to do with any of their stated principles.

I mean, it's fascinating to come into this conversation and call me the *sshole and the 14yo when Gilmore simply can not reply without 'f*cking idiot,' this or 'bullsh*t' that (he sounds like a kid playing Call of Duty). I don't talk to people that way.

And who can claim to be more seeking of attention than a grown man who nightly goes to a libertarian discussion group to give mock fashion reviews of their tv show? Who could be more arrogant and incapable of admitting they are wrong than Gilmore, the ALL CAPS ranting on every subject and if you disagree with him you're immediately a f*cking idiot kind of guy.

Francisco is, of course, a lot like Gilmore, so of course the quote, with the usual mountain of irony, is from him.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

it really shows you how some people on here's real problem with me has nothing to do with any of their stated principles.

Finally, we agree. It's because you are a complete fucking pedantic asshole, who likes the sound of his own voice, always needs to be the center of attention and has a psychological problem admitting he's wrong.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

As usual, we start with a long ramble full of ALL CAPS and neocon overtones attacking a major libertarian figure by Gilmore, and when challenged he immediately and repeatedly devolves into cursing insults lacking all pretense of substantive points.

[Cytotoxic]

As usual, Bo can't actually support the point he's making but just sort of hints at it with a series of question designed to get his opponent trapped into the 'proving a negative fallacy' and when called on it trots out the NEOCON booogeyman.

[Chen Kuan Tai]

He's starting to make Jesse Ventura more like the more sane, deep-thinking of the two.

[Commonman]

More propaganda in another attempt to warp your mind.

[jesse.in.mb]

OT: io9 breathlessly reports: "Wind farms are built offshore to take advantage of strong coastal winds. But scientists have learned that there is an unexpected environmental price to pay for these environmentally-friendly energy generators: the farms are causing havoc for the ocean's food chain."

There seems to be pushback on this sort of thing in the comments though

PlaidNinja

Well wait... forgive me, but I have to ask, is this bad or just different?

Commenter Copore Metal cleaned up with sensible comments.

[Episiarch]

People who read io9 comments might actually be worse than the people that post them. Did you know NutraSweet had to be hospitalized after reading two comment threads in a row? I keep trying to get ProL to read them but he's too crafty. Fucking lawyer.

[Max Power]

I can't even figure out Gawkersite comments. I can never understand who is supposed to be replying to who.

[Suthenboy]

What a complete crock of shit. Increasing the numbers of reefs can only be a plus for everything in the ocean.

These idiot fuckers ( watermelons ) are against anything kind of human empowerment.

Which commenter here noted that if solar or wind were to replace fossil fuels, which it won't, that the same fuckers decrying fracking would be screaming about 'big solar' and 'big wind'? Anyone remember?

It was a year or two ago if I remember correctly.

[Hyperion]

Luddites, bro, luddites. Apparently they've always been with us. It's just that instead of attacking tractors with pitchforks now, they attack any type of technological progress(while claiming to be the ones who are pro-science) with their twitter accounts.

[Suthenboy]

"...instead of attacking tractors with pitchforks..they attack any type of technological progress with their twitter accounts."

Beautiful.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

Just read a piece on self-driving cars on EETimes today. The resident ecotard just had to make the claim that a country that is so opposed to gun control and all of its evils would never go for self-driving cars.

Of course this is the same 'tard that freaked out about Fukushima and probably only eats organic shit. It's obvious why that rag is online only.

[Andrew S.]

That guy who fought the state of Arizona for info on the lethal injection drugs, only to be rejected by the Supreme Court?

The state fucked up the execution. Badly. Worse than that one in Ohio.

[Brett L]

Did he have an opiod allergy? Because I'm pretty sure you can push enough opiates into a person to have them die of asphyxiation with a smile on their face.

[BakedPenguin]

This. Actually, it would be even easier to mix opiates with Xanax or Valium. If they don't want the person to feel good, just give them enough of the Valium to put them to sleep right away, and then inject opiates until breathing stops.

[Army of the 12 Monkeys]

Propofol is quite nice. You start off awake and maybe a little anxious, you simply go unconscious (having never felt anything coming-on), and you either wake up later, or die. Trust me, Michael Jackson could not have had a more gentle send-off then under Propofol.

[GILMORE]

"Peter Suderman, who will heroically fill in for an ill Kmele Foster,"

"Ill"?

Based on last-night's party-garb and quick-exit, i'm guessing "Hung-the-fuck-over"-Kmele Foster.

And I also hope that by "heroically", Peter will be wearing a cape.

[Matt Welch]

It was an act of heroism for him to even appear on the show last night. That head was on the desk next to me 45 minutes before showtime. He bailed when he could.

[GILMORE]

Give him our best "get well soon" wishes

[Cdr Lytton]

That head was on the desk next to me 45 minutes before showtime."

All hail His Grace Matt of House Welch, First of His Name, Editor of the reason and co-host of The Independents!

[Derpetologist]

My local paper published my letter-to-the-editor, "Raise the Minimum Wage & End Robot Unemployment".

A few of coworkers saw it. Most thought it was funny. One guy got mad at me. I guess he thought I was seriously calling to replace all fast food employees with robots.

Shall I post the link to the paper's site or my blog?

[GILMORE]

Paper. They published you after all.

[Derpetologist]

Fair enough. You published yours. And now you will see how my name is one letter off from a Victorian novelist:

Behold

They changed my title and made some typos. The print version looks good though.

[Max Power]

Ha, I can't believe no one guessed that name!

[Notorious G.K.C.]

I loved your novel, Tess of the Derpervilles.

[Derpetologist]

I knew that was coming. I have also been working on a coming-of-age novel, To Kill a Mockingderp

This will be followed by The Color Derple.

[Max Power]

Far From the Maddening Derp

[Suthenboy]

"In the U.S., robots have largely replaced humans on customer ser?vice hot lines, much to everyone's delight."

Freakin' hilarious.

The proggies hate hate hate when they are made to look foolish. That is why the guy got mad. I hope he has a brain aneurism.

[Derpetologist]

I was confused. He said that it was the stupidest thing he had ever read in a newspaper. I said, "yeah, it was supposed to be. It was a joke." But he still got pissed at me for my "Northern" humor.

For the record, I grew up in rural WV, so I know the hillbilly game forwards & backwards. As in, I could be the basis for a character in Snuffy Smith.

[GILMORE]

"Other nations like Japan have em?braced robots. And Japan's economy has been in a non-stop boom ever since. All thanks to the magic of high labor costs and robots."

YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD

[Suthenboy]

Please do.

One got mad at you? Fantastic! Good job.

[Derpetologist]

I think I will write several times a week. Maybe I could get a regular column.

[Suthenboy]

In all seriousness, if you are going to write like that locally and people know your name, Mary or someone like her will knife you one morning when you go out to get your paper. The left really is loony and fanatical.

Please do so in a more anonymous manner.

[Derpetologist]

Hmmm. I don't know. As I like to say, I see no point in tip-toeing through life just arrive safely at death.

Plus, it seems that many more folks enjoyed what I wrote.

[Suthenboy]

It only takes one, and they are cowards. They won't come straight at you.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I that were true, Sloopy would be dead by now.

[Trouser-Pod]

Gotta keep your eye on the passers-by

No, you'll be OK. Country boy can survive, and all that.

[Virginian]

What a shitty day. Woke up late, scrambled to make lunch and get out the door. Thus leaving my big thing of egg salad on the counter all day. Came home and it was ruined. Then it was hot as shit.

Oh and I got stung by yellow jackets.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Let this guy cheer you up -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKd6ZxCEJdI

[Suthenboy]

Heh. I had yellow jackets attack me a couple of weeks ago. Nasty little bastards.

Go back at night. Prop up a flashlight shining directly on the hive's entrance. Walk around to the side so the light is not shining on you and slowly pour a gallon or so of gas down the hole. If any get out they will go to the light and not you.

[Episiarch]

I used to encounter nests in the ground when mowing the lawn as a kid. My solution? Park the mower over the nest, tie up the dead man's handle so it kept running, and then go get a drink while they suicided into the whirling blades of death. It would devastate a nest.

However, I couldn't do that to white-faced hornets because their nests are in trees and bushes. With them, it was RUN AWAY and then come back with serious poison and douse the nest. DIE FUCKERS DIE

[Suthenboy]

My grandfather always said leave the hornets alone. Also, if you shoot at them with a 22 they will find your ass from a s far away as you can hit them. He said they foliow the smoke trail back. I took his word for it.

A couple of years ago I was hiking int he woods with a buddy. We saw a hornet's nest in a tree about 50 yards away. He drew and aimed and before I could finish "Hey, don't d..." he shot.

I started telling him what my grandfather said about shooting nests and before I could finish that about a dozen of the fuckers showed up. They ate his ass up while he yelped and helicoptered around for a while. I just stood there. they didn't touch me. Not only did they find us, they knew who the shooter was. Go figure.

[Episiarch]

Well, that certainly reinforces my decision to not shoot nests with a shotgun. I always figured I'd devastate the nest but there's no way I'd get them all and then the survivors would be pissed. Spray poisons work surprisingly well; you just douse the nest and make sure your first shot hits the nest opening. That way they seal their own doom as they come out to get you. DIE FUCKERS DIE

[Suthenboy]

If Tony or Turd Polisher asks advice on hornets tell them to try this:

http://www.thefrisky.com/2013-.....-and-dies/

[Cdr Lytton]

Just make sure you have enough spray left in the can or a second can so you don't leave the nest half done like I did once. And hit a shot off to the side to get the foam fully pressurized first.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

That might be the most evil thing I've ever heard.

*Clap, Clap, Clap*

[Suthenboy]

He is right. It works.

The problem is you usually don't notice them until you have passes over them and they are after you. In that case you have to find them and brave the swarm to get the mower back on them.

[Episiarch]

I was pretty sensitive to spotting them. My sister is allergic to bees and hornets and we all had to be on the ball for spotting and eliminating them to lessen the danger to her (she was very allergic as a kid and almost died the first time she got stung).

Plus I've been stung 26 times at once before (I'm the opposite of my sister, no reaction at all) and it just pisses me off. And then it is DIE FUCKERS DIE.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

It must be gratifying to have them fly into a machine of violent death.

[Episiarch]

I'm not going to lie. It absolutely was. And Braindead hadn't even been made yet.

[BakedPenguin]

From Bila's Twitter account:

Co-hosting @IndependentsFBN on Fox Biz tonight, 9 ET. That's @mleewelch being studious behind me. #nerd

Heh heh.

[Duke]

Yowza!

I'm talking about Welch.

[Derpetologist]

Here will be my next submission to the opinion section of the Palookaville Coupon Clipper:

http://platedlizard.blogspot.c.....-laws.html

[Trouser-Pod]

Can you re-create your blog pic, but add glasses, a pipe and touch of gray to your hair. You'll look just like a "Nothern" professor, which may send your critic into conniptions.

[Derpetologist]

I have to see this guy every day. I'd rather not egg him on too much.

[Trouser-Pod]

Gotcha. Was thinking of online, not in-person.

[Suthenboy]

and a turtle-neck sweater.

[Derpetologist]

I was tempted to write under the name "Amanda Krugman", but I wanted the notoriety.

[GILMORE]

HA!

that would be awesome.

[GILMORE]

Good stuff.

a note regarding Newspaper-printed pieces (stuff they actually put in the *paper* as opposed to online) =

aim for 500 words or less. Less is better. this here is great. Still, its always good to go back and trim things and see how it reads in the "short as possible" version... then add back one or two 'more specific' points with the extra room. They like it if in your screed you actually make note of a specific thing it relates to:

(e.g. "hobby lobby?" was it really a tragedy that this law failed to validate the other law which probably precipitated a new law, all of which could probably have been avoided by simply *getting rid* of the law keeping birth control from being OTC...?)

regardless, your style is excellent old-school snarky andy-roonyish/will rogers type stuff. (in the good way)

[Derpetologist]

I have an abortion/Hobby Lobby op-ed in the works. I'm sure it will inspire at least one side to take up torches and pitchforks.

[Jesus H. Christ]

I'm ok with killing OR eating, but killing and eating? That's just anarchy.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

So, I just go word that a high school friend of mine is in the ICU, and just had an emergency liver transplant. Her family was keeping it quiet because things weren't looking very good. She was apparently less than 48 hours away from dying of liver failure. Reason: she was slightly overweight, and ordered an "all natural" weight loss supplement recommended by Dr. Oz. She turned yellow a week after starting the supplement.

Side note: Her dad is a retired lawyer. I can only assume he's coming out of retirement.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

There was a word for people like Dr. Oz back in the olden times. What was it?

Ah yes, shyster.

And alchemist.

[Derpetologist]

Oz has peddled so much snake oil Forbes made a top 10 list.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/me.....pplements/

[Libertymike]

Claire Mao-skill is so credible, you moron.

[Derpetologist]

If she said 2 + 2 = 4, would that be wrong too?

The source is irrelevant if the facts are correct. This is why smart people only look for errors in the facts and logic of an argument.

[Derpetologist]

If she said 2 + 2 = 4, would that be wrong too?

The source is irrelevant if the facts are correct. This is why smart people only look for errors in the facts and logic of an argument.

[Derpetologist]

double the post, double the fun!

[Jesus H. Christ]

My mother-in-law quotes him endlessly. I've never paid any attention to the guy, but my MIL, along with many others, seem to hang on his every word. Sounds like he's a dangerous fool.

[jesse.in.mb]

What product? This seems like an important piece of info.

Also Dr. Oz has a very narrow and skilled specialty. If I need heart surgery, I'll check with Dr. Oz. If I want weight-loss advice I'll track down a nutritionist or dietitian.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

He's great at open heart surgery. There's more money and less work in lying on TV, though.

All I know is that it is an "Asian fruit" supplement for weight loss. I'm trying to get the details as we speak. As I said before, her family was trying to keep it quiet. It's a small town when there's gossip to be had.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

Botulism is all natural. Cyanide is all natural. Arsenic is all natural. Ecotards hate it when I point that out.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Tonight on The Independents.

Less interruptions!

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Let's play what's the most you ever paid for a:

Tie.
Suit.
Shoes.
Watch.
Optional: (Sun) glasses.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

What's a tie?

My wife would win with the shoes, watch, and sunglasses.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Does this include dry cleaning costs after...well, never mind all that.

[Brett L]

Tie: $75?
Suit: 800ish
Shoes: 150ish
Watch: 90
Sunglasses: $125

[Raven Nation]

Tie: @=20?
Suit: 2 x ~$175 for job interviews
Shoes: $75?
Watch: $50
Sunglasses: well, most I've paid is about $20 but I have a $150 pair my insurance bought for me one year.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I'll be precise:
My Sunglasses
My Watch
I bet I place last.

One more link, con't.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

My Court Shoes

[Derpetologist]

This is a challenging game for me, as I don't think I have ever spent more than $30 on piece of clothing.

I spent about $50 on my work boots, but that was a year and a half ago.

A few months ago, I bought a waffle-print bathrobe for $15 from Wal-Mart. It is currently the most expensive item in my wardrobe.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I've never owned a bathrobe as an adult. Or pajamas.

[Matt Welch]

$50ish
$600ish (of my own money, that is)
$200ish
What is "watch"?
$200ish for prescriptions

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Smart alec.

[Suthenboy]

Tie: Twenty bucks
Suit: Couple hundred bucks
Shoes: Two fifty
Watch: Hundred bucks ( dive watch )
Sunglasses: Five bucks.

*These are the most, not the norm.

[Suthenboy]

Also, wifey has 300+ pair of shoes, and not cheap ones. This gives me lots of leverage whenever I want a new gun.

[Brett L]

For fun: Who here has spent more on a gun then the sum of their most expensive clothing items?

*raises hand*

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

At least 5 times. 6, if I find a deal I can't refuse this weekend.

[Suthenboy]

More than once. OK, more than twice.

[Suthenboy]

Actually I have exceeded that amount on ammo alone more than a few times.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Based on the numbers you provided, I sure hope so.

[Suthenboy]

Heh. Yeah, I am cheap.

[Trouser-Pod]

What Suthen said.

[Episiarch]

Tie: I have no idea, it could be anything up to $120.
Suit: $1000; it was a custom tailored Hugo Boss from Bloomingdale's.
Shoes: I have no idea, it could be anything up to $200. Fuck, my tennis shoes cost $130.
Watch: $190, but it was a $500 Festina all-titanium that I got at cost because I knew someone selling them.
Glasses and sunglasses: $600. They were a completely rimless design from some Japanese designer with magnetic snap-on polarized covers and looked very cool.

[GILMORE]

Tie = ~$150 or so. Thomas Pink. Normally? $50-75 is fair.

Suit = $1200. Burberry US. on Sale! Normally $600-700 or so every couple of years. I like Brooks Brothers on sale, Tyrwhitt for workhorse stuff.

Shoes = $350. Peel, on sale. Normally $120 or so for bostonian replacements.

Watch = never owned a nice watch. Always found them uncomfortable, wore a cheap victorianox for years, and replaced with a cheap/free hamilton. now have a 'free' 1960s rolex that keeps terrible time.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Burberry is the one brand I always liked but never bought for some reason.

[GILMORE]

re: Burberry - Apparently like most couture brands, there's different stuff made for different retailers. The stuff you get from their boutiques are nothing like what they sell @ nordstrom or whatever. Then the London stuff in nothing like anything in the US, apparently (this was all explained to me when i bought it)

i got mine because Rothman's got a consignment like 100 or so "Burberry US" suits of their own to retail, and i got an early pick of the lot. I liked the fabric. it gets comments from people.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Why would one wear Burberry when the same money will get you Barbour?

[GILMORE]

i dont go to department stores. I was @ Rothman's and was looking at things, and it so happened that they had a *banging* number that i really liked (and still do) i don't care what the label says really. although people ask.

[Cdr Lytton]

So the Tyrwhitt suits are ok? Just bought some shirts and liked them. How does the rest of their line stand up (for actual wear and construction)?

[GILMORE]

Suits = Absolutely.

Even their cheapest stuff is solidly made, requiring minor tailoring... the fabric isn't anything to write home about, but who cares? The lining is very nice too.

if im going to drop $700+, i'd go brooks brothers, but for $500? anything they have is a great deal. I like their sharkskin travel suit as their "best bargain"... (~$500-600 or so?)

Warning would be that their sizing tends to be small. I'd be leery of buying a suit from them without trying it on, whereas i've bought jackets from Brooks mail order and had it tailored later...i'd be cautious about doing so with CT. Although i assume they'd have no problem swapping things.

[Cdr Lytton]

Thanks Gilmore

[Episiarch]

You fucking chav!

[GILMORE]

The british thing rubbed off on me over the years. at least i never developed an affected accent. i had friends who went over there and then came back sounding like @#(*$ retards.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I make my own out of materials I also make myself.

[Jesus H. Christ]

Those orphan skins, you didn't make those.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Unless I made them orphans.

[GILMORE]

+1 matricide

[BakedPenguin]

Tie: $25
Suit: $400
Shoes: $60
Watch: $90 (I worked for a company that owned Bulova, so it was $175 retail).
Glasses: $70 (prescription)

[Cdr Lytton]

Tie: ~$60
Suit: ~$500
Shoes (boots): $350. Next pair for yard work will closer to $400.
Watch: $30 but the wife put a $200 one on my wrist
Glasses: $750 and those fuckers were worth every penny. Lasted for years longer than $200 Lenscrafters shit.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

$400 for yard work boots? Explanation plz. What's wrong with Timberlands?

[GILMORE]

I was going to mention upthread that the one clothing item i've spent a large amount of money on, and use every day, are some Frye work boots (loggers).

They were ~$320 or so new. I've worn them through 8 NYC winters and they're just about broken in. They are bombproof. I could probably leave them to my grandchildren. They inspire me to kick homeless people.

[GILMORE]

Here

They make them with 'softer' leather now, and I understand why. They have taken 5 years of solid wear to break the initial stiffness. Now they're like a catcher's mitt.

[Cdr Lytton]

Timberland may make acceptable boots but Danners fit my feet, hold up very well, stay dry, and aren't hot or cold. The extra $80 is for the calks that Hoffman's puts on. My yard is 3 acres of hilly woodlands.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Makes sense. My yard is measured in square feet.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Those are fine boots.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Tie. 50$
Suit. 300 for BESPOKE! (Actually that's the cheapest, but I just had to brag)
Shoes. 200-ish?
Watch. 350-ish?

[Peter Suderman]

Tie: $60?
Suit: $550ish...plus tailoring?
Shoes: $180 or so
Watch: Everyone knows how much an iPhone costs.
Sunglasses: $20, maybe. I order shades in bulk from Amazon for like $5 a pop, because any pair I actually wear gets lost in two weeks or less.

[Jesus H. Christ]

Same here with the sunglasses. No point in buying pricey when they will be damaged beyond use or lost shortly.

[Jesus H. Christ]

Tie: maybe $25? Probably less
Suit: I only own a sport coat my Father in Law bought me when Woolworth's or some store like that was going out of business. I'm too fat for it now.
Shoes: I might have blown $75 or so on sport shoes at some point. I usually try to spend less.
Watch: Can't stand them, so I don't own any.
Sun Glasses: the last pair I had was a pair of fake raybans I got for $2 (yes new).

[Jesus H. Christ]

Not Woolworth's, Wards. That makes it even worse, I think.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Wow. I didn't expect so many responses. People usually ignore me because I'm Canadian.

For what it's worth. Now keep in mind I worked in finance and had a tailor father.

Tie: $200. Various brands.

Suit: The suits he made me were generally worth north of $2000. Zegna and Cerutti fabric.

Shoes: $400. Again. I-talian. Still wear them 12 years later.

Watch (wrist watch for Matt): $700 (50% off) U-Boat.

Sunglasses: Arnette $115; Armani $200 (fitted in Italy); Maui Jim $200 (awesome glasses).

Shirt (which I forgot to add):$300. Tailor made: $100.

My buddy beats me on each count including an $8000 Rolex.

Now? I shop at the outlets. My money is all tied up in business debt.

[Jesus H. Christ]

You are pimping. Damn! I know it disappoints my wife, but I figure you can't polish a turd, so I really don't put as much effort into it as I should.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Shh.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

You had Arnettes? I owe you a few drinks. Peas in a pod

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Still own - both of them.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

As well as I can save, I spend hard too.

But I've mellowed. It took quite a bit of will power to avoid buying that Pinarello in the window last year. I just couldn't bring myself from plopping down $5000 on that beautiful beast.

I got a custom bike from a local guy for $2200 instead.

My brother in law wants to buy a snowmobile and motorcycle with me so...opportunity cost.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Can you ride a Pinarello in the snow?

Wise choice.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Good point.

It's 15 years we want to buy a couple of snow mobiles. My neighbour taking his out in the middle of a storm doesn't help. I so want to do it.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I was thinking about buying a place in Utah. If it happens, it will include snow machines for the winter and dirt bikes/atvs for the summer.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Oh, I forgot my Maui Jims....I agree, best thing since oral sex.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

The lenses are really sharp. Glad I took the dive.

[GILMORE]

" People usually ignore me because I'm Canadian."

As a 'timeless non-sequitur', this one is pretty classic.

I want to ask, "but.....why?"

... because no logical answer readily comes to mind.

...yet, it still somehow makes sense.

I'm reminded of the moment in Syriana when Bob tells the Arab prince in the elevator "Canadian!"...

apparently as a way to make him forget him.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

You don't like knowing what time it is?

[Episiarch]

That's what cell phones are for.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I don't surf or swim with my cell phone. It's quite liberating and arousing.

[Episiarch]

Neither do I. But I also have no desire to know the time when I'm swimming. That's why I like swimming.

[BakedPenguin]

That's what cell phones are for.

I remember once asking a guy for the time, and he ignored the watch on his wrist, and took out his cell. Apparently, it was just for decoration.

[Jesus H. Christ]

I guess I'm weird, but the sensation of having it on my wrist is just annoying as hell. I've never found one that didn't make me constantly aware it was attached to me.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Prediction: Purple.

[Fist of Etiquette]

If I can't have Foster and I can't have Moynihan, Suderman is acceptable as a substitute.

[Libertymike]

Moynihan is a statist - who the hell would want that?

[Fist of Etiquette]

How dare you.

[Peter Suderman]

He really hates commies though. I mean, you have no idea.

[GILMORE]

Why couldn't they sick moynihan against the Bard-tard! *that* would have been hot. He wouldn't have put up with that kids' hand-waving blathering for a second.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

His teeth are perfect. I demand an explanation.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Wait... No Kennedy, no aura?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Prediction: Isolationism yet trade.

[Fist of Etiquette]

NAILED IT.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

What should our foreign policy be towards Ukraine and Russia?

Two words: Hoo-ters.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Suderman hammering the Doctor on his blame-America-firsting.

[Trials and Trippelations]

Is Suderman's tie knotted?

[Fist of Etiquette]

He just wants to prove it's not a clip-on.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Doesn't sound as crazy as I had thought.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Not saying he's right, tho.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Without Foster here, who's going to Israel-bash?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Did somebody say "ritual flogging?"

[Rufus J. Firefly]

$3.1 billion (or is it bullion?) lost in anti-terrorist measures in Canada.

http://www.macleans.ca/politic.....ing-about/

[Fist of Etiquette]

With the speed of his delivery, Suderman should be given the permanent assignment to deliver exposition on < i The Independents.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Suderman speaks truth.

[Peter Suderman]

I live to serve.

[BakedPenguin]

Once again, thanks for that take down of the guy who was lying about having signed up for Obamacare. That was so enjoyable, I actually bumped up my donation to Reason a bit.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Jesus, Life Alert. Way to scare the geezers.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Judges are partisan? GASP

[GILMORE]

The Independents Attire Review, 23 June 2014

Ulysses-Edition

- Matt: Our recent joyful-tumescence over Matt's apparent acquisition of a new suit - (Navy?!) matched with both White Shirt and Red & Blue Power-Ties - has just been given a Very Cold Shower; The Black Suit of Doom returns in Act II to crush our hopes, cripple us for life, and remind us: The Dark Side of the Force remains strong.

- The Amazing Suderman: Peter has solved whatever the latent shoulder/jacket issues were, because this thing is cut like it was tailored by a Samurai Billionaire. He suddenly looks a few inches wider and ready to punch Buck Sexton in his overgrown-schoolboy face. The shirt/tie combo isn't pefect (he'd be better with a silk tie with the patterned shirt), but the colors are good (and the hanky matches!) and this is overall one of the best showings Peter has had so far.

- Jeebadeebadeeba: JB never fails to make us want to drift over to the Independents desk, and ask her what she's doing in a place like this... and whether she's here with that Dork in the pink shirt... And what kind of vodka does she like in her martinis because I'm getting one and she might as well have one too. What she's wearing? She looks great. I can't tell Women what works and what doesn't. They already know.

I know no method to secure the repeal of bad or obnoxious laws so effective as their stringent execution.
- U.S. Grant

Cheers

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Is Matt's shirt light pink?

[Peter Suderman]

Alright, well, I'm claiming victory, at least in the we're-all-winners sense.

[seguin]

This isn't soccer Suder-Man. There can be only one.

[Fist of Etiquette]

No subsidies? GOP will help you out.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

What's a GOP?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Matt keeping the TI ship steady.

Better than the guy who sank the Titanic.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

He's doing really well tonight. Mary Kat Ham was hard to work with.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

How do you figure?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

If I had insomnia, I would pay her to talk to me. You can't expect Matt to work with that.

He's doing much better tonight. Jedediah is a good co-chair.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Heh.

I suffer from occasional insomnia.

[BakedPenguin]

Jedediah is a good co-chair.

Yes, and not painful to look at, either.

[BakedPenguin]

Ugh. That was only meant as a compliment to Jedediah - not a knock against anyone else.

[Fist of Etiquette]

"FUCK NO I WON'T STEP ASIDE FOR THAT CUNT"

[Fist of Etiquette]

I think they'll let you do that.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Yeah, because Canadians are any better.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

He's got some decent story-telling songs.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Panties!

[Bobarian]

Street value, they sell for more if slightly soiled...

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Does the vending machine accept large denominations?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

In Yen, yes.

[jesse.in.mb]

I expect equal time for sexy men frolicking!

[Fist of Etiquette]

Welch says, "Kennedy, I believe this is killing me."
As the smile ran away from his face
"Well I'm sure that I could be a game show host
If I could get out of this place"

[Fist of Etiquette]

I'm sure he was in a white house...

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Don't forget that John Tyler was the first one to try it.

[Bobarian]

If your clothes are already so permeated, you don't have to worry about the smell.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

To be fair to the East Germans, cheating was the only way you could get by under communism.

Bribing bureaucrats, not reporting stuff, etc.

[Jesus H. Christ]

Yes, but "the rules don't apply to me" runs rampant through the left. Al Gore can have a huge home with an enormous "carbon footprint" (barf), but he's ok because he installed solar panels. Fly a private jet to an environmental conference? Sure, he drove the electric golfcart to the clubhouse instead of driving.

It's part of the mindset.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Commie-bashing. You can't go wrong with commie-bashing.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Speaking of which, when are they gonna bring The Commie back?

[Raven Nation]

Is she wearing Kennedy's hoops?

[Bobarian]

Renting them?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Holy shit. Was dominatrix her specialty?

[Bobarian]

I get a little Dr. Girlfriend vibe. Dressing as the Monarch could be a decent kink.

[Bobarian]

Or Brock Samson, cause you know Brock has been there.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I know what you guys are thinking. Don't say it.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

And Rufus beat me to it.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Don't feel bad. In order to beat me you need to be in a dark place in perpetuity.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

"Ow, ow! It's a cock not a bottle cap!"

[Fist of Etiquette]

Suderman was about to tell this lady he doesn't pay for it.

[Bobarian]

Wouldn't a shorter list be "Programs gone right"?

[Fist of Etiquette]

In the Democrats' defense, they really need these people's votes, and the insurance companies' campaign donations.

[Fist of Etiquette]

AH! Lou Dobbs.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

And thus closes another night of Welch's subtle smirks.

[GILMORE]

DARBS!

[Chen Kuan Tai]

"...who will expand on his controversial assertion that 'Without US-sponsored 'regime change,' it is unlikely that....the Malaysian Airlines crash [would] have happened.' Paul will also weigh in on the situation in Gaza."

I never realized "controversial" was a euphemism for "idiotic".

[GILMORE]

Bo helpfully explains above that this all makes perfect sense.