Defenders of Trump's Birthright Citizenship Order Offer an Implausible Take on a 127-Year-Old Precedent
Briefs urging the Supreme Court to stay injunctions against the order challenge "the conventional wisdom" about the meaning of an 1898 decision interpreting the 14th Amendment.

On Thursday, the U.S. Supreme Court will hear arguments regarding three preliminary injunctions against a January 20 executive order that purported to eliminate birthright citizenship except for children of U.S. citizens or lawful permanent residents. The main issue is whether the Court should issue stays that limit the injunctions to the plaintiffs who sought them, including named members of organizations that challenged President Donald Trump's order. But the Trump administration also has argued that all three judges erred in concluding that the edict flouted longstanding Supreme Court precedent, and several briefs supporting the government's stay applications echo the implausible claim that the order is consistent with the relevant case law.
At the heart of that dispute—which goes to the underlying merits of the injunctions, regardless of their scope—is the meaning of the Court's ruling in the 1898 case United States v. Wong Kim Ark. In that decision, the Court concluded that Wong Kim Ark, a son of Chinese immigrants who was born and raised in San Francisco, was a U.S. citizen and therefore could not be prevented from returning to the United States after a visit to China. The Court held that the 14th Amendment, which says "all persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" are U.S. citizens, "affirms the ancient and fundamental rule of citizenship by birth."
Wong Kim Ark noted two traditional exceptions to that rule: for children of diplomats and children of foreign invaders. It recognized a third exception in the American context: Like those two other categories, the Supreme Court said, "members of the Indian tribes owing direct allegiance to their several tribes" were not subject to U.S. "jurisdiction" within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. "The Amendment, in clear words and in manifest intent, includes the children born, within the territory of the United States, of all other persons, of whatever race or color, domiciled within the United States," the Court said. Apart from those three exceptions, in other words, anyone born in the United States automatically becomes a U.S. citizen.
That, at least, is the usual understanding of Wong Kim Ark. "The conventional wisdom, accepted over decades, is that Wong Kim Ark supports absolute birthright citizenship to everyone born in the United States," former Attorney General Ed Meese concedes in a Supreme Court brief he filed in support of the Trump administration. But Meese argues that "the holding in this case does not go as far as the conventional wisdom would have you believe."
In a separate brief, House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jim Jordan (R–Ohio) and 17 other members of Congress likewise argue that the plaintiffs in these cases—Trump v. CASA, Trump v. Washington, and Trump v. New Jersey—"overread Wong Kim Ark." Other amici, including Tennessee Attorney General Jonathan Skrmetti, the attorneys general of 20 other states, and several conservative groups, offer similar arguments.
According to these defenders of Trump's order, "the conventional wisdom" glides over the details of Wong Kim Ark. That decision, Meese says, "addressed a specific and narrow legal question: whether a child born in the United States to lawful permanent residents of Chinese descent was entitled to citizenship under the Fourteenth Amendment. It did not, despite the conventional wisdom over decades, reach the question whether children born to parents illegally present in the United States were entitled to citizenship under the Fourteenth Amendment."
Wong's parents were Chinese merchants who maintained a business at 751 Sacramento Street in San Francisco, where Wong was born sometime between 1871 and 1873, according to political scientists Carol Nackenoff and Julie Novkov's 2021 book
His parents, who were ineligible for citizenship under an immigration law that excluded Chinese immigrants from naturalization, returned to China in 1889. Wong, who had worked as a cook in California since he was 11, went with them.The following year, Wong returned to San Francisco and was readmitted despite the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882, which barred the entry of Chinese laborers, based on the understanding that he was "a native-born citizen of the United States." But when he returned to the United States after another visit to China in 1895, he was denied reentry on the grounds that he was not a U.S. citizen.
To settle that issue, the Supreme Court delved into English common law, under which "aliens, while residing in the dominions possessed by the crown of England, were within the allegiance, the obedience, faith or loyalty, the protection, the power, and the jurisdiction of the English sovereign; and therefore every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject, unless the child of an ambassador, or of an alien enemy in a hostile occupation of the place where the child was born." That principle, the majority said, carried over to America, as reflected in colonial legislation, early judicial rulings, and the debate preceding the 1868 ratification of the 14th Amendment. Since Wong's parents were not foreign diplomats, alien enemies, or "members of the Indian tribes," the Court concluded, he qualified as a U.S. citizen by virtue of his birth in the United States.
"Critically, Wong Kim Ark did not address the question of whether children born
to individuals who are unlawfully present in the United States qualify for birthright
citizenship," Meese writes. "The parents of Wong Kim Ark were lawful permanent residents, meaning they had a recognized and legitimate presence within the country. The Court's holding was limited to the specific facts of the case and should not be read as extending citizenship to the children of foreign nationals who have no legal status in the United States."
The Supreme Court's application of the 14th Amendment to Wong, however, hinged on its understanding of what it means to be "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States. "Every citizen or subject of another country, while domiciled here, is within the allegiance and the protection, and consequently subject to the jurisdiction, of the United States," it said. "Citizenship by birth is established by the mere fact of birth under the circumstances defined in the Constitution. Every person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, becomes at once a citizen of the United States."
The distinction that Meese urges, which excludes children of "individuals who are unlawfully present in the United States," is ahistorical. "Congress did not generally restrict migration until well after adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment," James Ho, whom Trump appointed to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit in 2017 and considered as a potential Supreme Court nominee, noted in a 2006 law journal article. "Nothing in text or history suggests that the drafters [of the 14th Amendment] intended to draw distinctions between different categories of aliens. To the contrary, text and history confirm that the Citizenship Clause reaches all persons who are subject to U.S. jurisdiction and laws, regardless of race or alienage."
John Coughenour, the federal judge in Seattle who granted the preliminary injunction at issue in Trump v. Washington, was appointed by Ronald Reagan, the same president whom Meese served as attorney general. "I can't remember another case where the question presented [was] as clear as this one is," Coughenour remarked when he temporarily restrained Trump's order three days after it was published. "This is a blatantly unconstitutional order."
The 14th Amendment's Citizenship Clause "merely refers to 'jurisdiction,' and the word 'jurisdiction' is commonly understood in this context to be 'a geographic area within which political or judicial authority may be exercised,'" Coughenour wrote when he issued his preliminary injunction, quoting Black's Law Dictionary. "Thus, anyone who answers to the political or judicial authority of the United States is 'subject to [its] jurisdiction.' That is the plain meaning of the phrase 'subject to the jurisdiction,' and it unequivocally applies to children born in the territorial United States—regardless of the immigration status of their parents."
Coughenour also thought Trump's order was clearly at odds with Wong Kim Ark. In that case, "the Supreme Court addressed the meaning of the phrase 'subject to the jurisdiction thereof,'" he noted. It "clearly explained that the phrase 'subject to the jurisdiction thereof' was an extremely narrow qualification that only excepted three specific classes of person: 'children of members of the Indian tribes,…children born of alien enemies in hostile occupation, and children of diplomatic representatives of a foreign state.'"
To "further emphasize the narrowness of the qualifications imbued in the phrase 'subject to the jurisdiction thereof,'" Coughenour added, "the Supreme Court explicitly clarified" why "'aliens' were 'exempt' from the qualifications," quoting the Court's 1812 decision in Schooner Exchange v. McFaddon. When "private individuals of one nation spread themselves through another as business or caprice may direct, mingling indiscriminately with the inhabitants of that other," Chief Justice John Marshall wrote in that case, "it would be obviously inconvenient and dangerous to society, and would subject the laws to continual infraction, and the government to degradation, if such individuals or merchants did not owe temporary and local allegiance, and were not amenable to the jurisdiction of the country."
Deborah Boardman, the federal judge in Maryland who granted the preliminary injunction at issue in Trump v. CASA, likewise rejected the government's understanding of jurisdiction. "The government claims that, under Wong Kim Ark, to be 'subject to the jurisdiction' of the United States, a person's parents must, at the time of the person's birth, be lawfully domiciled in the United States, and bear '"direct and immediate allegiance" to this country, unqualified by an allegiance to any other foreign power,'" she noted. "Nothing in Wong Kim Ark remotely supports the government's narrow reading of the decision." Under that precedent, Boardman said, "if a person is born in the United States and does not belong to one of the traditional classes of excepted persons, the person is born 'within the allegiance' of the United States and 'subject to the jurisdiction' of the United States."
The Trump administration, Boardman noted, "seems to dismiss Wong Kim Ark's holding, and the lengthy analysis that supports it, as dicta"—statements of opinion that did not establish a precedent because they were not essential to the ruling. A Supreme Court brief from America's Future gestures in the same direction. "Despite some unduly broad dicta," it says, "Wong Kim Ark did not even address those specific children covered by the Executive Order—those born to a mother either illegally or temporarily present in the United States."
According to the government, Boardman noted, "Wong Kim Ark's holding was limited to the specific facts of the case." That decision, she said, "cannot reasonably be read that narrowly." And "even if not part of the Court's holding," she added, "Wong Kim Ark's statements that every person born in the United States is 'subject to the jurisdiction thereof' and thus a citizen by birth (with certain exceptions) certainly are not dicta."
Boardman quoted the 4th Circuit's definition of dictum as a "statement in a judicial opinion that could have been deleted without seriously impairing the analytical foundations of the holding—that, being peripheral, may not have received the full and careful consideration of the court that uttered it." But when "'a precedent's reasoning' is 'necessary to the outcome,' it 'must be followed,'" she noted.
"Wong Kim Ark's statement that the 'fourteenth amendment affirms the ancient and fundamental rule of citizenship by birth' with certain recognized exceptions could not 'have been deleted without seriously impairing the analytical foundations of the holding,'" Boardman wrote. "Even a cursory review of the decision reveals that this statement and similar statements were not 'peripheral' to the holding. They were central to it. And there can be no question that the Court gave them 'full and careful consideration.'"
Leo Sorokin, the federal judge in Boston who granted the preliminary injunction at issue in Trump v. New Jersey, was similarly unimpressed by the Trump administration's dismissal of inconvenient passages from Wong Kim Ark. "The government's lawyers urge the Court to essentially ignore all but a handful of sentences from Wong Kim Ark, arguing the bulk of the majority's lengthy opinion is dicta," he wrote. "At the motion hearing, the defendants doubled down on this point, brazenly claiming that 'dicta can be disregarded.' That position reflects a serious misunderstanding at best—and a conscious flouting at worst—of the judicial process and the rule of law."
Quoting a 2020 ruling by the 1st Circuit, which includes Massachusetts, Sorokin noted that "lower federal courts are not merely obligated to apply the holdings of Supreme Court decisions; they also 'are bound by the Supreme Court's 'considered dicta.'" In a 1993 decision, the 1st Circuit said "carefully considered statements of the Supreme Court, even if technically dictum, must be accorded great weight and should be treated as authoritative when…badges of reliability abound." Sorokin had no trouble detecting such "badges" in Wong Kim Ark.
"To the extent the thorough analysis in Wong Kim Ark of the Fourteenth Amendment's common-law foundations, the purpose and intent of its drafters, and its application during the first thirty years after its ratification can be called 'dicta' at all, it is undoubtedly the 'considered' and 'authoritative' sort that this Court is bound to apply," Sorokin writes. "The sheer detail and length of the discussion by the Court's majority make this plain. Add to that the fact that the opposite view—the one the defendants advance to justify the [executive order]—was rejected by the majority in Wong Kim Ark (in the portions of the decision now labeled 'dicta' by the defendants) and endorsed only by the dissent. The plaintiffs are not relying on a stray 'remark' that lacks 'care and exactness,' standing 'wholly aside from the question in judgment' and 'unsupported by any argument, or by any reference to authorities,' that might not 'control the judgment' of a lower court. They are 'leaning into' the central reasoning of the Supreme Court in support of its holding."
The Supreme Court has repeatedly reaffirmed that reasoning. In 1934, for example, it noted that "a person of the Japanese race is a citizen of the United State if he was born within the United States." In 1957, the Court acknowledged that a child born to foreigners who had overstayed their visas would "of course" be "an American citizen by birth," despite the parents' "illegal presence." In 1966, the Court said two children born to parents who had entered the country under false pretenses (and therefore were "unlawfully present in the United States") nevertheless "acquired United States citizenship at birth." In 1985, the Court unanimously viewed a child "born in the United States" as "a citizen of this country," even though the child's parents had entered the country illegally.
When the Supreme Court gets around to considering the constitutionality of Trump's order, of course, it will be free to change course, renouncing the logic of Wong Kim Ark and subsequent decisions based on the principle it recognized. But no one should pretend that would not amount to a revolution in the Court's understanding of the 14th Amendment.
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"Not subject to the jurisdiction" means not subject to civil or criminal laws in the US. That means that they can't be arrested, tried, or prosecuted in US courts, or sued in US courts, or even arrested and deported by ICE.
No dumbfuck, that is NOT what that means. It means they’re a foreign citizen that is ultimately subject to laws of a different just want it to mean something different because you’re for open borders.
Using your exact words, every lawful US permanent resident green card alien with citizenship in another country fallss outside US jurisdiction and laws. Check your permanent resident alien neighbors because it means you can't sue them for violating your legal rights in US courts.
This is so fucking retarded and wrong.
Someone under US jurisdiction has to:
Register to civil service if male
Pay US taxes even if in another country
Be available for jury duty
Can access US embassies if in other countries.
And other things demanded of those under US jurisdiction.
If you get pulled over for speeding when on a trip you are not a fucking resident of the precinct of who pulled you over.
Stop being so retarded Charlie.
He will never stop. He lives for his retardation, and Marx.
NO, it doesn't mean that at all.
Everybody in the country is subject to many laws just as if you come in my house you take off your shoes. You can decide not to come in my house, okay, then 'hasta"
“Implausible”? Uh huh. If birthright citizenship supporters had overpowering arguments they wouldn’t need to be so intellectually dishonest. Wong Kim Ark is admittedly not a model of clarity but meandering dicta is not precedent and there’s a whole lotta meandering in that case. But the holding is clear and limited:
The evident intention, and the necessary effect, of the submission of this case to the decision of the court upon the facts agreed by the parties were to present for determination the single question stated at the beginning of this opinion, namely, whether a child born in the United States, of parent of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the Emperor of China, but have a permanent domicil and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China, becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States. For the reasons above stated, this court is of opinion that the question must be answered in the affirmative.
The broad interpretation of Wong Kim Ark is not actually supported by the language of Wing Kim Ark itself. The expansive notion of birthright citizenship is a modern bureaucratic invention. It can also be ended by the bureaucracy. Congress is always free to decide otherwise but they have not so decided and the Court has no business imposing its preferred policy.
You're confusing the difference between being "subjected" to and a "subject" of.
People think that birthright citizenship came about through the 14th Amendment. That is not true. It is based on English common law, with court cases confirming it going back to before Jamestown was settled. What the 14th Amendment did was to make it apply to all races.
people think birthright citizenship is a thing.
This is also fucking false. There were many expulsion of children born here subject to other countries dumbass.
Even ark v Wong recognized foreign citizens subject to china.
The 14th overrode Dred Scot re whether a status of parents (in the Dred Scot case enslavement - today illegal residence) could effectively also taint the status of their children.
It's not really about race. It's about whether a legal status passes through generations.
No, Charlie, that is jus soli and we know the Founders rejected that. Washington's birth certificate says "Great Britain" and under jus soli he could be called back 'home' at the whim of Britain. Well THAT didn't happen 🙂
Jus soli was precisely the law under English common law. Confirmed in a 1608 English court case known as Calvin's Case
George was not born in England. He was born on the soil of what belonged to the King. It was one of the major conflicts of the revolution. There was no connection to Parliament or the rights of Englishman
you guys said old laws are bad like just last week.
Their only consistency is hypocrisy.
It should only apply to those who are legally in the US or its territories.
That makes sense and aligns with the actual words of the amendment's authors. In what world does it make sense to give citizenship to an invader and/or their progeny?
"Invader" has traditionally meant an agent of a foreign government, not someone looking for work.
And when there’s millions of them it’s an invasion.
Please cite your dictionary entry.
That makes sense and aligns with the actual words of the amendment's authors.
Not to mention historical precedent regarding immigration, naturalization, and "fractional citizenship" of slaves, Indians, etc.
The idea that "all of a sudden" in 1898 anybody, Spaniard or Mexican or Frenchman or anyone else, who wandered into Arizona or New Mexico *Territory* and had a kid, or wandered into Texas from Arizona or New Mexico territory and had a kid was, and really always had been considered, a citizen because that's just how citizenship works, is several layers immaculate conception layered on top of immaculate conception.
I'm actually not entirely convinced that Trump is wrong, but I am pretty convinced that messing with it would only result in something worse so it's something of a catch 22.
This was largely not an issue prior to things like the welfare state or income taxes, but here we are trying to apply a 120+ year old statute to a country that bears little resemblance to what it was at the time.
In fact, I wonder if the courts thought this was a great idea because they were considering an income tax that could be levied against immigrants regardless of their nationality and as a way to leverage congressional apportionment.
The real solution is to get rid of the democrats.
"Thus, anyone who answers to the political or judicial authority of the United States is 'subject to [its] jurisdiction.' That is the plain meaning of the phrase 'subject to the jurisdiction,' and it unequivocally applies to children born in the territorial United States—regardless of the immigration status of their parents."
I was thinking about this a bit more since something bothered me about it and I had some trouble pinning it down.
Now I've figured it out. This is circular reasoning.
Since being born here makes you a citizen, they are a citizen because they were born here. There isn't anything special about being born here that puts you under the jurisdiction of the United States other than the fact the United States says that gives them jurisdiction over you.
The United States could just as easily say that it doesn't give them jurisdiction and you are of the same nation as your parents unless the parents have a legal right to be in the United States in the first place. The United States notably does not claim jurisdiction of the parents, so it's a bit absurd that we claim jurisdiction of the child.
It's not absurd. It is precisely what eliminates intergenerational 'taint'. For the same reason that a legal status of slavery cannot be passed from one generation to the next. Nor can a legal status of illegal residence.
That sort of intergenerational taint is specifically unconstitutional via the bill of attainder clause
You would die of embarrassment to try to go the other way, that the bill of attainder is about intergenerational taint. We also got rid of Primogeniture and entail with complete advertance to intergenerational law but no hint of 'taint'. In other words, you are arguing not law but what you think was in their minds and that supposeldy unanimously. Sorry, bad reasoning.
I find the Claremonsters argument - that the Birth right citizenship conventional wisdom has never really been opined on directly by the Supreme Court - to be pretty persuasive. And that's even despite the conventional wisdom being generally unchallenged until now.
It does not seem rational for a country to grant citizenship to a child that's mother just broke the country's laws to cross the border moments before delivery. It is a perverse incentive to break laws.
The only reason to continue with the current perverse interpretation is to perpetuate open borders and flood the country with illegals. Which is the top priority of the democrat party.
^this
that's
"That's" and "which's" aren't real words, but they or a substitute meaning that should be. English needs them.
Okay , you get my rare seal of approval
Yes, and more than that. Talk about arbitrariness and lack of substantive basis, can crossing a line called the 'border' confer all that with no regard to who you are ??? Tren de Aragua or MS-13. IMPOSSIBLE
Illegals are trespassers, and it's perfectly legal to shoot trespassers. That means that the life of every illegal is forfeit, as well as the lives of their progeny. Just like squirrels nesting in your attic.
Am I right, Idaho?
Poor sarc.
So much dehumanizing language.
You have historically supported shooting unarmed trespassers. So you shouldn’t have a problem with that.
You already did that in regards to babbit. What changed?
A take so implausible the author of the 14th Amendment said the same thing, the same thing wasn't said during debate of the 14th, you have to ignore native Americans were excluded, ignore FDR and Truman deporting Mexicans born here....
Totally implausible.
Jacob is fucking retarded.
Koch probably directed KMW to “hire the biggest open borders retards you can find”.
No matter what it takes, birthright citizenship has to go.
Agreed. And it will probably take the destruction of the democrat party to make it happen.
Hypocrat party.
Spoken like a true piece of shit fascist. The trials will not be kind to you.
Gee, and I thought you were a champion of "democracy". I did not know you prefer the Soviet-Mao kind.
Stupid cunt.
Molly is going full Maoist in their threats lately.
No, I’m anti fascist. So therefore anti democrat. Fascism is one of the three faces of Marxism. Along with socialism and communism.
How many other countries have this type of birthright citizenship?
Many others thers have JUS SOLI -- which was UTTERLY rejected by our Founding Fathers.
"Sen-ator Lyman Trumbull, the Act’s sponsor, repeatedly echoed this, stating the goal was “to make citizens of everybody born in the United States who owe allegiance to the United States.” Cong. Globe, 39th Cong., 1st Sess. at 572 (statement of Sen. Trum-bull); see also id. at 527. This requirement, rooted in consent and political allegiance rather than the feudal concept of jus soli underlying Lynch, necessarily excluded those whose allegiance was owed, through their parents, to a foreign power."
And it will probably take the destruction of the democrat party to make it happen.
I'm okay with that... lets roll the dice. 😉
Then propose an amendment.
With non-citizens voting about citizenship !! Pure Molly nonsense.
JS;dr
JS;dr
Which one of you is the sock puppet of the other?
There are only four people who regularly post here. Most of the other commenters are their socks.
This is a very easy case. The only arguments against birthright citizenship boils down to "I am a racist who does not like immigrants."
You don't change 125+ years of constitutional law just to be a dick to minorities.
Please quote anyone here who says that the rules for citizenship should be different depending on race.
Vernon, who defines 'race' ? The government. Kamala claims to be Black. Sen Warren to be Cherokee. They get away with it too.
Your view actually brings race smack dab into it., Any claim about 'race' would call in small armies of lawyers, constitutional experts, and genetics testimony
What "view" is it that you're accusing me of?
Is that what you learned getting that "physics phd?"
Tony, you and your democrat fellow travelers have been dicks to minorities for 200 years. We’re the ones bringing equality.
You’re the baddies.
You know that Hispanic people aren’t the only people who come here to have children, And that white people aren’t the only ones who think the prevailing thoughts on birthright citizenship are wrong? Right? Cause that would be incredibly racist of you.
Molly you never have the facts just the mouth
"Sen-ator Lyman Trumbull, the Act’s sponsor, repeatedly echoed this, stating the goal was “to make citizens of everybody born in the United States who owe allegiance to the United States.” Cong. Globe, 39th Cong., 1st Sess. at 572 (statement of Sen. Trum-bull); see also id. at 527. This requirement, rooted in consent and political allegiance rather than the feudal concept of jus soli underlying Lynch, necessarily excluded those whose allegiance was owed, through their parents, to a foreign power."
If citizen-by-birth pivots on the legal jurisdiction of the parents, then it seems like anyone living in hiding does not qualify. And anyone declaring openly that they defy the government, and take refuge in some declared sanctuary, is far from under the jurisdiction by intent.
pivots on the legal jurisdiction of the parents
No, that isn't so. It depends on the legal jurisdiction of the child.
If your assertion were true, then kids born here of ambassadors would be citizens. Your assertion is false.
You've got it backwards. Such children are not under US jurisdiction.
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside." Not a word about the parents.
Think through what you just again asserted.
Children of ambassadors are not ambassadors. If born here their jurisdiction flows from... their parents. They were never appointed by their countries. They retain thr citizenship and jurisdiction... work it out... of their parents. When their parents return home the kids are also returned as citizens of their parents country. Slowly now.
Work it out buddy.
If the parent's are in hiding, they're not subject to the jurisdiction - they're avoiding it. This their children are avoiding it.
But that obscures that the legal jurisdiction of the child depends on THE PARENTS
"Sen-ator Lyman Trumbull, the Act’s sponsor, repeatedly echoed this, stating the goal was “to make citizens of everybody born in the United States who owe allegiance to the United States.” Cong. Globe, 39th Cong., 1st Sess. at 572 (statement of Sen. Trum-bull); see also id. at 527. This requirement, rooted in consent and political allegiance rather than the feudal concept of jus soli underlying Lynch, necessarily excluded those whose allegiance was owed, through their parents, to a foreign power."
This is one of those issues where I just don't even know why the argument exists. If I squint really hard I can agree with them on the most myopic surface level. Any further inspection of the arguments reveals that they are unreasonable and don't actually make sense.
Because neither you nor speaking for normal people have addressed Ilya's argument that the "allegiance" test makes no historical sense because it would bar from protection and citizenship the very people the amendment was designed to protect. Former slaves and the children of slaves.
John Eastmen and the Claremont institute also ignore this crucial historical detail...because their arguments of loyalty and allegiance or fealty and all the rest...simply don't work for that entire class of people.
Repeating their arguments here don't work either and for the same exact reason.
Sorry, but how silly of you. You pretend to be addressing me but you are actually saying that real lawyers made that mistake.
If you didn't put laywer in your name no one would think it
Repeating their arguments ? No I am saying real lawyers disagree with you and you are pretending it's just me and another person posting. Eastman has it
But you admit that argument DOES EXIST so a silly point.
And we are now using your definition of 'unreasonable' to not subject this to reason. Wow.
Do you have children? It is in no way academic to me that Biden let in Tren de Aragua and MS-13. Biden could have easily avoided this problem. Easily. A lazy and ignorant man.
Nobody honestly cares anymore. Americans just want to see anchor babies and their illegals parents rounded up and shipped off to wherever. CECOT, if need be. Somalia. Heck, give them a raft and a parachute and dump them over international waters on the non-American side of the ocean currents. Who cares.
SERIOUSLY. AMERICA DOES NOT CARE ANYMORE. The left and their open border wards have long-exhausted the American patience on this subject.
We don't care where they go, just so long as it isn't here. Get out of this country, and we're one more border incursion from saying, "And, unless you've successfully applied for citizenship, we'll shoot you if you come back."
HEY GUYS LOOK an internet tough guy!
Advocating for mass murder? Tsk Tsk AT.
Be better than that. Any slack jawed idiot with a keyboard can post racist murder fantasies.
Are you a proud slack jawed racist idiot?
HEY GUYS LOOK! Steaming pile of lying lefty shit claims to be a lawyer!
Fuck off and die, ass-wipe.
Hey guys look, an accusation of advocating for mass murder without having once mentioned mass murder or anything akin to it.
What's the matter, watercloset? Sick of having me gimp your wannabe attorney creds? You know I'm right when it comes to the "authority" that American courts have over non-Americans not in America.
But you just can't bring yourself to admit it. Not to me. Not to yourself.
Because you are clown world. Put on the nose, gimp.
And you also can't bring yourself to face the simple fact that Americans are DONE with the criminal aliens and the visa abusers. Maybe you're not, but nobody is listening to people like you anymore.
And I'm sure that really sticks in your craw. Nobody cares.
Yet you said nothing when your guy, the smart energetic Great Unifier Joe, was not checking who was coming over the border. You avoid the main issues.
1) Tren de Aragua and MS-13 are here and Trump is getting there asss out of here. You want them, then tell us why
2) One of the greatest critics of your position just happens to be Somalian, Aayan Hirsi Ali
She says :
Why are so few people talking about the eruption of sexual violence and harassment in Europe’s cities? No one in a position of power wants to admit that the problem is linked to the arrival of several million migrants—most of them young men—from Muslim-majority countries.
Sullum, you've not been right for . . . nearly a decade now. The wallz were not clozin in!
I don't know if this order is 'plausible' or not - but with your track record I'm not going to bet on you.
Don't like birthright citizenship? Amend the Constitution.
Or, just go by what the Constitution actually says.
Which we know is not what you and Trump wish it says.
Which we know isn't what you hope it says.
Jacob made a mistake
the actual holding in Wong Kim Ark was nar-row, resolving only the specific question presented: the citizenship of a child born in the United States to parents who were subjects of a foreign sovereign but who had established a “permanent domicil[e] and residence in the United States.” Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. at 653. Any language in that opinion suggesting a broader rule appli-cable to children of non-domiciled parents constitutes non-binding dicta. See Cohens v. Virginia, 19 U.S. (6 Wheat.) 264, 399 (1821).
All the legal arguing aside, the more fundamental question to ask is if birthright citizenship is a good idea? It’s clearly being abused. If it’s being abused should we change it, even if that requires an amendment to the Constitution?
There would be some practical problems with changing it. There would need to be a box to check if a newborn baby was a citizen or not, so hospitals would need to know the status of the parents. That would probably be easy enough in the case of the mother, but if the father is unknown or in hiding it might be harder.
You can have a baby now and not name the father and as Covid taught us hospitals will be more interested in getting customers and will NOT report correctly. If you don't like court hearings for 10 million illegals you certainly won't like a court case for every newborn
So, changing birthright citizenship will be very difficult and potentially impractical. Might be the case. I rather doubt that the votes are there to change it in any event.
The more interesting part of this case is the implication that lower level judges have more power than the supreme court justices do. A supreme court justice, can't rule unilaterally, outside of the complete supreme court other than the districts that they preside over. However some how the lowest level federal judge is capable of issuing a nationwide ruling?
This precedent needs to be struck down and struck down hard to stop lower level judges from issuing nationwide rulings. These "purchased" judges, who sell their souls for partisan gain should either be reprimanded and potentially removed. Lower court rulings should be limited to being directly applicable to the parties and in line with the actual jurisdiction of the court, not nationwide.
This problem has escalated to a point where it is completely out of control. Time for the supreme court to clean up the judicial branch and eliminate the abuse.
'Opponents of Trump's Birthright Citizenship Order Offer a Bullshit Take on a 127-Year-Old Precedent'
Sullum is a fucking pile of TDS-addled slimy shit, ain't he. Fuck off and die, Sullum.
Here is a link to the Congressional debates discussing the citizenship clause, starts on page 2890.
https://www.congress.gov/congressional-globe/congress-39-session-1-part-4.pdf
It's super clear from the discussion that "jurisdiction" actually excluded those with foreign allegiances or subject to a foreign power. That excluded "sojourners" and those temporarily present. That would also exclude illegal immigrants who, though such a category did not exist back then for obvious reasons, the U.S. has made a conscious choice to exclude from the polity. The discussion makes clear that Congress would have the power to define what groups are brought within the full jurisdiction of the U.S. to the exclusion of foreign allegiances, by treaty and otherwise.
Once you have read that source, then see what Slaughterhouse Cases said about the citizenship clause (in passing dicta, but instructive nonetheless).
From there, go to Elk v Wilkins.
Only then should you bother to try assessing the horrible mess of an opinion that is Wong Kim Ark.
Also, worth noting about Wong Kim Ark: https://x.com/AmySwearer/status/1881857640835224049
"(1) The Chinese Exclusion Acts at the time prevented Chinese immigrants from becoming naturalized citizens. Ever. Wong Kim Ark's parents had no legal manner of obtaining citizenship, which created a class of permanent lawful residents who were relegated to perpetual alien status based on race alone - not just for them, but for generations of subsequent U.S.-born descendants who'd have absolutely no allegiance to any nation except the US, where they were born, lived, and died. This almost identically parallels the plight of the U.S.-born descendants of African slaves after Dred Scott, which was precisely the thing the CRA and 14th Amendment were concerned with undoing. (2) The Wong Kim Ark Court at every opportunity emphasizes the lawful and permanent domicile of his parents at the time of his birth, something that is utterly irrelevant if it truly understood the 14th Amendment to adopt common law jus soli, as advocates for universal birthright citizenship today contend. If that were the case, the Court's entire analysis would have ended with "he was born on U.S. and his parents were not diplomats.""
Here's a message to all you hate-filled racists, xenophobes, and those of you just plainly made bitter and miserable by your lives. God sees you, knows who you are, and has a list ready to deny you entry to heaven for all eternity. Satan, on the other hand, has his special Hitler wing big enough for all of you in hell.
So if a Mexican woman crosses the Rio takes two steps on American soil and drops a kid she's domiciled here?
The very AUTHORS of the 14A stated specifically there was no birthright-citizenship encoded in it.
If the Supreme Court rules against Trump it will be due to 100% judicial activism precisely because the AUTHORS of the 14A stated clearly what it meant.