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First Amendment

A Law Professor's Beef With a First Amendment 'Spinning Out of Control': Too Much Speech of the Wrong Sort

Even as he praises judicial decisions that made room for "dissenters" and protected "robust political debate," Tim Wu pushes sweeping rationales for censorship.

Jacob Sullum | 7.2.2024 4:35 PM

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Columbia law professor Tim Wu | Columbia Law School
Columbia law professor Tim Wu (Columbia Law School)

"The First Amendment is spinning out of control," Columbia law professor Tim Wu warns in a New York Times essay. While Wu ostensibly objects to Supreme Court decisions that he thinks have interpreted freedom of speech too broadly, his complaint amounts to a rejection of the premise that the principle should be applied consistently, especially when it benefits speakers and messages he does not like.

The immediate provocation for Wu's diatribe is yesterday's Supreme Court decisions in two cases challenging Florida and Texas laws that aimed to restrict content moderation on social media. Although the justices remanded both cases for further consideration by the lower courts, Justice Elena Kagan's majority opinion in Moody v. NetChoice made it clear that the "editorial discretion" protected by the First Amendment extends to the choices that social media platforms make in deciding which content to host and how to present it, even when those decisions are inconsistent, biased, or arguably unfair. And that discretion, she said, includes the use of algorithms that reflect such value judgments.

Although Wu has reservations about "the wisdom and questionable constitutionality of the Florida and Texas laws," he thinks "the breadth of the court's reasoning should serve as a wake-up call." He faults the justices for "blithely assuming" that "algorithmic decisions are equivalent to the expressive decisions made by human editors at newspapers." The ruling, Wu says, reflects a broader trend in which "liberal as well as conservative judges and justices have extended the First Amendment to protect nearly anything that can be called 'speech,' regardless of its value or whether the speaker is a human or a corporation."

As Wu sees it, freedom of speech should hinge on the "value" of the ideas that people express. It is hard to imagine a broader license for government censorship.

Wu praises decisions that protected the speech rights of "political dissenters, religious outcasts, intrepid journalists and others whose ability to express their views was threatened by a powerful and sometimes overbearing state." In those cases, he says, "the First Amendment was a tool that helped the underdog" and ensured "robust political debate." It is not hard to imagine how "the underdog" or "robust political debate" would fare under a legal regime that empowered the government to decide which speech is valuable enough to merit toleration.

Wu faults the Supreme Court for holding, in the 2012 case United States v. Alvarez, that the First Amendment protects "even outright lies," as he puts it. Again, allowing the state to suppress speech that it deems inaccurate would pose a chilling threat to "dissenters" of all stripes.

The First Amendment, Wu worries, "is beginning to threaten many of the essential jobs of the state, such as protecting national security and the safety and privacy of its citizens." Like "value" and accuracy, "national security" and "safety" are vague, subjective excuses for speech restrictions that sweep much more broadly than Wu might like.

Under the rationale of "national security," Wu thinks the government should aggressively resist "informational warfare," which he says entails banning TikTok, despite the impact that would have on the 122 million Americans who use the platform for purposes that even he would concede have something to do with rights guaranteed by the First Amendment. The struggle against "informational warfare" presumably also would include censoring the online speech of people identified (perhaps incorrectly) as foreign agents. Wu might hope that speech restrictions justified in the name of national security would stop there, but history suggests otherwise.

Wu also thinks the First Amendment should not apply to individuals who organize themselves as corporations. He predictably criticizes Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, the 2010 decision in which the Supreme Court rejected legal restrictions on political speech by labor unions and corporations, including small businesses and myriad nonprofits representing a wide variety of views. "If the First Amendment has any force," Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote for the majority, "it prohibits Congress from fining or jailing citizens, or associations of citizens, for simply engaging in political speech." Kennedy rightly wondered why individuals should lose the right to freedom of speech merely because they seek to exercise it as "an association that has taken on the corporate form."

Glossing over the diversity of organizations affected by such a rule, Wu says "judges have transmuted a constitutional provision meant to protect unpopular opinion into an all-purpose tool of legislative nullification that now mostly protects corporate interests." That is especially worrisome, he avers, because "the power of private actors has grown to rival that of nation-states." Given his publishing history, you will not be surprised to learn that Wu thinks the "most powerful" of those private actors are "the Big Tech platforms, which in their cocoon-like encompassing of humanity have grown to control commerce and speech in ways that would make totalitarian states jealous."

Wu somehow overlooks a crucial distinction between Facebook et al. and "totalitarian states": While the former cannot use force to "control commerce and speech," blatant coercion is a defining feature of the latter. That difference has constitutional significance, although Wu apparently thinks it should not. To fight the supposedly state-like power of "Big Tech platforms," he wants to deploy actual state power, imitating the totalitarian techniques that he says pale in comparison to voluntary, consensual interactions with YouTube or Amazon.

The freedom of Big Tech (and Little Tech) to adopt a diversity of content-moderation policies, based on what they think users want, gives people options they would not have if the government overrode those decisions. And although Wu resists the idea, those choices are embodied by algorithms (created by humans!) that aim to organize an enormous amount of content in a way that is accessible, interesting, and useful. All of this supports the ability of individuals to go online, find information and opinions that interest them, and express themselves in one forum or another.

In case there was any doubt that Wu's beef is with the First Amendment itself, as opposed to any particular application of it, he closes by quoting Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson: "If the Court does not temper its doctrinaire logic with a little practical wisdom, it will convert the constitutional Bill of Rights into a suicide pact." Jackson made that comment while dissenting from the Court's 1949 decision in Terminiello v. Chicago, which overturned the "breach of peace" conviction of a priest who delivered an inflammatory speech.

Like Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes' 1919 analogy to "falsely shouting fire in a theatre," which he drew in support of the proposition that there was nothing wrong with imprisoning people for distributing anti-draft leaflets, Jackson's "suicide pact" warning is a go-to reference for anyone who wants to justify restrictions on constitutionally protected speech. Although those remarks have not aged well, Wu is trying hard to rehabilitate the attitude underlying them.

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NEXT: The Supreme Court Didn't Destroy the Regulatory State. It Stood Up for Due Process.

Jacob Sullum is a senior editor at Reason. He is the author, most recently, of Beyond Control: Drug Prohibition, Gun Regulation, and the Search for Sensible Alternatives (Prometheus Books, September 2).

First AmendmentFree SpeechFree PressCensorshipSocial MediaInternetFloridaTexasNational SecuritySafetyCitizens UnitedCampaign FinanceSupreme Court
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  1. Don't look at me!   1 year ago

    Apparently, he’s a fucking idiot.
    “First amendment out of control”, my ass.

    1. SQRLSY One   1 year ago

      Do you recall the awesome enchanter named “Tim”, in “Monty Python and the Search for the Holy Grail”? The one who could “summon fire without flint or tinder”? Well, you remind me of Tim… You are an enchanter who can summon persuasion without facts or logic!

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      At Reason, we pay above-market-band salaries to permanent staff, or above-market-band per-word-based fees to freelancers, at your choice. To both permanent staff, and to free-lancers, we provide excellent health, dental, and vision benefits. We also provide FREE unlimited access to nubile young groupies, although we do firmly stipulate that persuasion, not coercion, MUST be applied when taking advantage of said nubile young groupies.

      Please send your resume, and another sample of your writings, along with your salary or fee demands, to ReasonNeedsBrilliantlyPersuasiveWriters@Reason.com .

      Thank You! -Reason Staff

      1. Don't look at me!   1 year ago

        Unread

      2. Restoring the Dream   1 year ago

        You are mentally ill. How do I know that? You are boring. Jordan Peterson pointed out that people with mental problems can be discerned because they are boring. That is because they don’t change what they say to fit into the conversation or subject matter, but repeat their non-functional processes no matter what the subject is. You to a T. Get help soon.

        1. SQRLSY One   1 year ago

          All of those who disagree with MEEEE are… Mentally ILL!!! YES, this! Good authoritarians KNOW this already!

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry_in_the_Soviet_Union

          All of the GOOD totalitarians KNOW that those who oppose totalitarianism are mentally ill, for sure!!!

        2. Brett Bellmore   1 year ago

          Yeah, that pretty much nailed, so I just muted him.

      3. Mother's Lament (June is Banana Republic Month, celebrate responsibly)   1 year ago

        For fuck's sake you retard, DLAM was agreeing with the premise of the article.

        This is section 230 all over again and you rushed to white knight for something you never even read.

        1. Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)   1 year ago

          SQRLSY should be put down at the vet.

          1. SQRLSY One   1 year ago

            Hey Punk Boogers! HERE is your “fix”! Try shit, you might LIKE shit!!!

            https://rentahitman.com/ … If’n ye check ’em out & buy their service, ye will be… A Shitman hiring a hitman!!!

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        2. SQRLSY One   1 year ago

          DLAM was agreeing with the premise of the article... By calling names and making ABSOLUTELY no intelligent or significant cuntributions of meaningful thoughts! Just like a SLUT of hairy twats around hair!!!

  2. Rick James   1 year ago

    The test of your love of the first amendment is to see how you react when you start losing the debate.

    1. mad.casual   1 year ago

      The test of your own sanity is to see how quickly after 2020 you can agree with one corporate media stooge against another corporate media stooge about the free speech rights of "Sure is a nice place you've got here, it would be a shame if something happened to it." media companies.

      Again, Murthy v. Murray and the Netchoice decisions together effectively defend the ability of the FedGov to lean on big tech, deny the States' standing in opposition, *and* unofficially relegate the speaking public to third-party (no standing) status.

      1. Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf   1 year ago

        I left a comment on the other article about this. Way too long, but I was trying to insult lawyers civilly, not criminaly. Our judicial system is designed to use ritual to distract the hoi polloi that the government is so afraid of. A proper judicial system would let individuals enforce companies own terms of service in days, not years, without government making a muddle of it. But the last thing politicians, lawyers, judges, and bureaucrats want is a citizenry able to solve problems without government.

        1. n00bdragon   1 year ago

          Our judicial system is designed to use ritual to distract the hoi polloi that the government is so afraid of.

          I refuse to believe that our judicial (or political) system is smart enough to distract anyone from it's "true intentions". Whenever you see something truly unarguably stupid happening, it's probably someone genuinely just having trouble walking and chewing bubble gum at the same time.

          1. Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf   1 year ago

            That's why I said designed to.

          2. mad.casual   1 year ago

            Are we to assume you were chewing gum when you posted this, or no?

        2. mad.casual   1 year ago

          And I didn’t even get into the issues where, apparently, the only right the 1A grants is free speech, as evidenced by the Masterpiece Cakeshop where *decorating* a bespoke cake is free speech but compulsory association and service of off-the-shelf baked goods and/or any religious convictions one way or the other, shouldn’t or can’t be considered in any association or dissociation between the baker and any/all customers.

          Pretty sure "You're free to say you don't want to bake the cake all you like as long as you bake the fucking cake (consistently with any/all State Commissions)." was not the intent of the 1A.

  3. Vernon Depner   1 year ago

    the "editorial discretion" protected by the First Amendment extends to the choices that social media platforms make in deciding which content to host and how to present it

    And that's fine, as long as they are held legally liable for such curated content. If they are granted immunity from liability for user-generated content, then their privilege to choose and censor content should be severely restricted.

    1. Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf   1 year ago

      And liable now, not years from now; and cheaply, not millions of dollars later.

    2. Old Smokin' Egg   1 year ago

      I think you’re treating “curated” as an on-off thing here: either content is “uncurated”, in that no third-party content is ever excluded; or “curated”, in that editors pore over it and decide that it’s 100% acceptable and that they’re willing to take full responsibility for it.

      But most curation probably falls somewhere between those extremes. Let’s suppose, for instance, that I’m running a site that’s supposed to be acceptable to parents who don’t want their children exposed to vulgar language. I apply a simple-minded filter that looks for the Seven Words, excludes any user-generated content that includes one of those strings, and passes along everything else. Is that curation, and am I thereby required to examine those thousands and thousands of posts for potential libels, for incitement of crime, and for God knows what else that might expose me to legal liability?

      Or let’s suppose I’m running a site for Eugene Volokh groupies, in which the only thing I filter for is variants of the word “pseudonymous”: posts including that are passed along, anything else is dropped. Does that kind of minimal curation expose me to liability for anything that my users contribute?

      No. This, I think, was the justification for Section 230: to allow sites to provide some degree of filtering of user-created content, without therefore incurring total responsibility for all aspects of it. Without that, the strong incentive would be for no curation at all, which means that every online forum would become a cesspool of caps-locked exchanges of junior-high epithets.

      (And no, I’d never apply such a description to the high-minded and thoughtful discussions that so often take place in Reason’s comment sections…)

    3. KerryB   1 year ago

      Their house, their rules. Don't like it go start your own platform.

  4. Vernon Depner   1 year ago

    a human or a corporation

    Tell us you're a Marxist without saying you're a Marxist.

  5. Malvolio   1 year ago

    “Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
    ― William F. Buckley

  6. PatrickM   1 year ago

    Christopher Hitchens would have had some choice words for this authoritarian dipshit.

    1. Rick James   1 year ago

      And look where he ended up!

      1. Vernon Depner   1 year ago

        In Hell?

  7. Ska   1 year ago

    Ironically, Tim “Cunt Face with Shitty Facial Hair” Wu did not allow comments on his unilateral declaration of acceptable speech.

    Edit: well I'll be damned, they did turn comments on. That was not the case in the morning when I read the piece.

  8. mad.casual   1 year ago

    Dec. 16, 1773 - Red-face wearing Colonial Trolls overcame the good Good Samaritans at the EIC and deprived them of their right to editorial discretion of colonial beverages.

    I don't know about anyone else, but my loose notes on the definition of liberal or libertarian are more along the lines of "maximize individual liberty" rather than "maximize individual liberty for corporations" or "maximize individual liberty for Congressionally-designated Good Samaritans" or "maximize individual liberty against communists". The more broad definition leaving plenty of room under the tent to oppose both actual Nazi party members and sympathetic, but totally private, industry magnates.

    Sullum vs. Wu on the Corporate Media vs. State Legislators on free speech is very much an "Everyone is assholes."/"Is everyone involved dying in a fire an option?" proposition.

  9. VULGAR MADMAN   1 year ago

    The cure for “bad” speech is always more speech.

    1. mad.casual   1 year ago

      False. "If there is time to sort good speech from bad, the solution to bad speech is more speech, not forced silence." is not the same thing as "The solution to 'bad' speech is always more speech."

      The latter is an affront to science, rationality, and, arguably, morality or honesty on par with "The solution to the problem of mining through dirt for gold is always more dirt."

      1. n00bdragon   1 year ago

        Are you implying there is some kind of "emergency exception" to people saying stupid stuff on the internet?

        1. mad.casual   1 year ago

          Are you saying that in an emergency it would be beneficial to have more stupid shit printed on the internet?

          1. KerryB   1 year ago

            Very rarely but sometimes the seemingly stupid shit turns out to be correct.

  10. soldiermedic76   1 year ago

    Can we take Will Shakespeare's advice yet 'first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers'?

    1. Vernon Depner   1 year ago

      Just the civil litigation lawyers. Criminal defense lawyers do useful work.

  11. Chip D   1 year ago

    This article was unnecessarily convoluted and long. Suffice to say, Tim Wu is a moron who does not understand that any restriction on speech will be used against the people for control. Good Speech/ Bad Speech, True /False, Worthy / Worthless are all up for debate by those in charge.

    1. Number 2   1 year ago

      I disagree. Wu Understands this perfectly. He just assumes that he will be among those in control.

  12. Uncle Jay   1 year ago

    "Tim Wu pushes sweeping rationales for censorship."

    You misspelled "fascism."

    1. Mother's Lament (June is Banana Republic Month, celebrate responsibly)   1 year ago

      Seriously.

      I think this guy is Chemjeff's spirit animal.

  13. Eeyore   1 year ago

    Wu first needs to defend why he should not be fined and imprisoned for his ideas.

    1. Restoring the Dream   1 year ago

      Ooooh yeah!

  14. Use the Schwartz   1 year ago

    Wu is an attention starved dipshit that has been peddling this exact same tripe for years. I mean EXACTLY, word for word. Why do people (NYT) keep listening to him?

  15. MK Ultra   1 year ago

    Chumby would have come up with something amusing about "Wu's on First."

  16. Gaear Grimsrud   1 year ago

    Seems to me all of this goes back to Trump's stolen election fantasies.

    1. Mother's Lament (June is Banana Republic Month, celebrate responsibly)   1 year ago

      Debating it was dangerous to our (D)emocracy.

  17. AT   1 year ago

    Did anyone here, including Jake, actually read this dude’s article?

    He faults the justices for “blithely assuming” that “algorithmic decisions are equivalent to the expressive decisions made by human editors at newspapers.”

    This is actually a very interesting argument.

    If I program a machine to respond one way or another to a specific input, is that my exercise of speech, or is it the machine’s? Am I expressing something THROUGH the machine I’ve coded to respond a certain way? Is that an act of speech in and of itself?

    Good question. It deserves consideration. Especially as AI language generators continue to develop.

    As Wu sees it, freedom of speech should hinge on the “value” of the ideas that people express. It is hard to imagine a broader license for government censorship.

    Why? Look, go back to the original expansion of 1A. This was in the 60s, and it had to do with smut. Before that, anti-smut laws were peachy keen. Because society was more decent, and didn’t try to define “free speech” as anything that might be expressed by anyone.

    Or anything.

    Which is where this article comes into play, questioning whether every fart, drool, or sneeze is somehow “free speech” just because it originated from a human orifice. Because he rightly argues that the Founders didn’t intend or expect 1A to be bastardized into what it’s become: a descent into the absurd, lacking of any value whatsoever, reduced to any expression about any subject. The same way defenders of beauty and aesthetic didn’t expect a banana taped to the wall to be held as high value fine art.

    But, of course, this is one of the goals of Marxism (which includes so-called “post-modern art”). The goal is to devalue. As loathe as I am to cite Ayn Rand, she’s actually got the perfect line for this particular thing in The Fountainhead: Kill man’s sense of values. Kill his capacity to recognize greatness or to achieve it. Great men can’t be ruled. We don’t want any great men. Don’t deny conception of greatness. Destroy it from within. The great is the rare, the difficult, the exceptional. Set up standards of achievement open to all, to the least, to the most inept – and you stop the impetus to effort in men, great or small. You stop all incentive to improvement, to excellence, to perfection. Laugh at Roark and hold Peter Keating as a great architect. You’ve destroyed architecture. Build Lois Cook and you’ve destroyed literature. Hail Ike and you’ve destroyed the theatre. Glorify Lancelot Clankey and you’ve destroyed the press. Don’t set out to raze all shrines – you’ll frighten men, Enshrine mediocrity – and the shrines are razed.

    I suspect that’s what this dude Wu is pressing back against.

    Should we really sacrifice what valuable thing 1A was intended to protect, on the altar of absurdity? To the point that we’re outsourcing our “speech” to machines that are doing the talking – or censoring – for us?

    That’s what he means by “spinning out of control.” I actually read this guy as an ardent 1A proponent. He’s simply rejecting the absurdist/Marxist view that “everything is free speech, or free speech means nothing.” They want to remove the concept of value. And I understand Wu’s objection to that.

    No different than if you handed me a bunch of pocket lint and loose gravel and said, “Accept these, because I say they have value.” When they clearly don’t. And screw you if you don’t like it.

    1. Don't look at me!   1 year ago

      Nope. Nobody has the right to tell me what I can read or write, or assign “ value” to it. The government in particular.

      1. AT   1 year ago

        Yea, actually, we do. What you just said is another Marxist line of thought that condemns judgment.

        What you read or write might be absolute garbage. Worthless. Useless. Pointless. And you should be TOLD that, as opposed to having your worthless, useless, pointless, valueless speech praised as something worth defending.

        Should the government be establishing standards of value? No, not of their own accord, I suppose. But should they be going out of their way to protect and defend trash, smut, obscenity, and modern art? No way. That's not defending free speech. That's defending abuse of free speech.

        1. JohnZ   1 year ago

          And your very statement explains why people such as yourself should never be allowed anywhere near any position of authority.
          Once you set a standard or limit for speech then anything outside that standard and limit becomes criminal. Even worse those limits and standards may change at any time for any reason.
          It is a dangerous and unwise . Even the best of intentions result in the worst of results.
          Go read some Thomas Jefferson or Ray Bradbury.

          1. AT   1 year ago

            Once you set a standard or limit for speech then anything outside that standard and limit becomes criminal.

            So what? And don’t kid yourself – we already set standards. And have since the drafting of the Bill of Rights. For example, child pornography is not protected under free speech. Nor is pulling a fire alarm or popping off a few shots into the ceiling in a theater to express your opinion toward the film. Nor is trying to publish manifesto detailing your plans to shoot up a school and encouraging others to do the same. These are not valuable exercises of self-expression. They’re abuses of the right to it.

            The point that you missed is that – in slowly rolling back standards and increasingly accepting (if not lauding and lionizing) the vile, profane, and dangerous – the faster we actually erode free speech until we lose the Republic that guarantees it. The slippery slope is real dude, and if it’s not tempered by some set of values that limit it, it will ultimately cannibalize itself. And everyone else with it.

            Normal people know and understand that. It’s only the wacko progressives/Marxists who refuse to either A) because they’re ignorant morons; or B) because the point, their goal, IS to break it. That’s “social justice equity” in a nutshell. That’s anti-racism. That’s the LGBT’s descent into open child predation.

            They don’t do it because they value their rights and freedoms, and the moral values that premise them. They’re doing it because they despise yours.

        2. Jefferson Paul   1 year ago

          And who determines what speech has value? The government. Now you are back to not having free speech if those in power get to make that determination. You are only allowed speech that the government approves of. I'm glad you are not in charge.

          1. AT   1 year ago

            The government by and through the elected representatives chosen by the people.

            Your problem is that you've accepted as legitimate a government that no longer listens to its people. Which, in fact, routinely spits in their faces as things get worse for them while they get fat and rich and retain power.

      2. mad.casual   1 year ago

        Nobody has the right to tell me what I can read or write, or assign “ value” to it.

        How about SPBP2? Does he have a right to speak based solely on his own perceived value or no? Or is there, in fact, some speech that it would be wrong to protect?

  18. John C. Randolph   1 year ago

    Scratch a Liberal, find an autocrat. Wu can fuck right off with the rest of the degenerates in academia.

    -jcr

    1. JohnZ   1 year ago

      Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds.

  19. Commenter_XY   1 year ago

    Can somebody ask Professor Wu if he supports the Hamas demonstrators at Columbia? Sullum couldn't be bothered to check...

    I've noticed that whack jobs like Wu are usually front in center with Hamas supporters. I would love to know why Sullum chose not to address this. Shame on him for not doing some basic journalistic homework.

    People like Wu are why we need the full protection of 1A.

  20. JohnZ   1 year ago

    A Columbia law professor......that explains much. Law schools such as Columbia, Harvard and Yale no longer produce lawyers, they produce activist/authoritarians. Wu is just another authoritarian hiding in lawyer clothing.
    " Freedom of speech and thought matters, especially when it is speech and thought with which we disagree. The moment the majority decides to destroy people for engaging in thought it dislikes, thought crime becomes a reality." John Stuart Mill.
    "If freedom of speech be taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter." George Washington.
    In Germany and Britain, thought crime is now being persecuted.

    1. mtrueman   1 year ago

      "In Germany and Britain, thought crime is now being persecuted."

      Where isn't it persecuted? Call for a boycott of Israeli products, or raise concerns over the humane treatment of livestock and you could find yourself in trouble with any number of governments, local, state or federal.

  21. cavehobbit   1 year ago

    Freedom of Speech is a Human Right. But corporations are not Humans, nor are AIs.
    That is where the court in the past, and others when wrong. We need to realize that artificial legal constructs cannot have the same rights as Humans.

    So while a corporate CEO has free speech, his corporation cannot. So while he can stand up and say "smoking is healthy", his corporation should not be able to do so.

    So far as I am concerned, things like corporations and AI have no rights whatsoever. So can be regulated as much as we permit government the authority to do so.

    "But corporations are collections of people" is a common argument. Well, yes, but legally they are their own entity, they are a collective. Do we support collective rights in other areas? Do whites or blacks get collective rights, or is it the individuals who do? Do Catholics and Hindus get collective rights, or is it the individuals who do?

    Why support collective rights for corporations when we do not do so anywhere else?

    1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   1 year ago

      "...But corporations are not Humans..."

      FOAD, slaver.

    2. Torguud   1 year ago

      “But corporations are collections of people”. So true. And so is a government. What Wu is really arguing for is that a government has rights that do not derive from individual rights. I can't tell you not to smoke a joint, or distill whiskey at home, but the government can. I can't steal from you, but the government can. Why? Because the government is special, and they do not want competition.

  22. Quo Usque Tandem   1 year ago

    “As Wu sees it, freedom of speech should hinge on the “value” of the ideas that people express. It is hard to imagine a broader license for government censorship.”

    The First Amendment, Wu worries, “is beginning to threaten many of the essential jobs of the state, such as protecting national security and the safety and privacy of its citizens.” Like “value” and accuracy, “national security” and “safety” are vague, subjective excuses for speech restrictions that sweep much more broadly than Wu might like.

    Pretty obvious what he wants; promote the narratives he likes, and censor those he doesn’t in the name of “disinformation” [remember the COVID lab leak conspiracy?], “protecting democracy,” [how dare you question the Russian collusion, it is known!] and “safety” [like threatening anyone’s notion of their “lived experience”].

    1. JohnZ   1 year ago

      So in other words, Wu believes that freedom of speech should be curtailed in order to protect the state and its apparatchiks.
      What a wonderful idea....dictators and tyrants all followed that ideal.

      1. Quo Usque Tandem   1 year ago

        Not like we haven't see that before, quite recently. Nazi Germany, the USSR, and Communist China, all serve as models of an effective government [at least where access to and the dissemination of information is concerned]. But of course this will be kinder, gentler, and more beneficent governance; I suppose they all promise a benign dictatorship, as a selling point to the useful idiots.

        1. mtrueman   1 year ago

          "Not like we haven’t see that before, quite recently. "

          Julian Assange was in the news as recently as last week. Did you miss it?

          " But of course this will be kinder, gentler, and more beneficent governance"

          Assange was confined for years at the behest of the this beneficent government. You're being very naive, immediately bring up the Nazis to carry water for current injustices.

  23. Truthteller1   1 year ago

    Another blithering idiot. It's a feature of the left.

  24. mtrueman   1 year ago

    Isn't granting human rights like free speech to non human entities like algorithms opening a giant can of worms? Will they also have the right to arm themselves, vote, and so on by the same token? Wouldn't it also entail an enormous expansion of government which Libertarians oppose? If government is there to protect the rights of its citizens, how much bigger will it be if we also expect it to protect the rights of algorithms and other computer programs?

    And I was taught that with rights come responsibilities? How are we to expect responsibility from algorithms? By appealing to their better nature or threatening them?

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