Most Justices Seem Skeptical of the Florida and Texas Social Media Laws
The Supreme Court seems inclined to recognize that content moderation is protected by the First Amendment.

On Monday, Florida Solicitor General Henry Whitaker and Texas Solicitor General Aaron Nielson defended state laws that restrict content moderation by social media platforms, telling the Supreme Court they uphold a First Amendment value by protecting freedom of speech. To the contrary, former U.S. Solicitor General Paul Clement said on behalf of the tech trade group NetChoice, those laws violate the First Amendment by interfering with constitutionally protected editorial judgments.
It is not clear whether the Court will resolve that issue now rather than remanding the two cases for further development. But most of the justices seemed inclined to side with NetChoice.
In Moody v. NetChoice, Whitaker argued that Florida's law serves "an important First Amendment interest" by "promoting and ensuring the free dissemination of ideas." Chief Justice John Roberts was immediately skeptical.
Roberts noted that Whitaker had expressed concern about the ways in which Facebook et al. use their "market power" to shape online debate. "Your response to that is going to be exercising the power of the state to control what goes on on the social media platforms," the chief justice said. "I wonder, since we're talking about the First Amendment, whether our first concern should be with the state regulating what we have called 'the modern public square.'"
In NetChoice v. Paxton, the Texas case, Roberts noted that "the First Amendment doesn't apply" to social media companies. "The First Amendment restricts what the government can do," he said, "and what the government's doing here is saying you must do this: 'You must carry these people; you've got to explain if you don't.' That's not the First Amendment." The case "turns on whether" decisions about who may speak and what they may say should be left with the "various platforms" or the government, Roberts said, and "the First Amendment has a thumb on the scale when that question is asked."
Roberts also questioned Nielson's analogy between social media platforms and the telegraph, a "common carrier" barred from discriminating against communications based on their content. "You're assuming that they are like the telegraph," he said. "The telegraph had a particular[ly] compelling type of monopoly. I mean, if you didn't want to use the telegraph that was there, you usually didn't have an alternative choice." Likewise with railroads and "other types of common carriers," he added. "I'm not sure the same thing applies with respect to social [media] platforms." In the Texas case, Roberts described that market as "incredibly dynamic," suggesting that the common carrier model "may be totally inapt" in "the wild west economy surrounding the social media platforms and the Internet."
Justice Brett Kavanaugh likewise was openly skeptical of the position taken by Florida and Texas. During oral arguments in the Florida case, Kavanaugh quoted "a really important sentence in our First Amendment jurisprudence" from the Court's 1976 decision in Buckley v. Valeo, which dealt with campaign finance regulations: "The concept that the government may restrict the speech of some elements of our society in order to enhance the relative voice of others is wholly foreign to the First Amendment."
Kavanaugh also noted the Court's 1974 decision in Miami Herald v. Tornillo, which rejected a Florida law giving political candidates a "right of reply" to unflattering newspaper articles. "The Court went on at great length…about the power of the newspapers," acknowledging "vast changes" that had placed "in a few hands the power to inform the American people and shape public opinion," which "had led to abuses of bias and manipulation," he said. "The Court accepted all that but still said that wasn't good enough to allow some kind of government-mandated fairness."
Kavanaugh suggested that Florida's logic of "government-mandated fairness" on social media could support similar restrictions on publishers, movie theaters, bookstores, and newsstands, requiring them to provide a forum for material they otherwise would reject. Whitaker replied that bookstores, unlike social media platforms, are "engaging in inherently expressive conduct."
Like Roberts, Kavanaugh emphasized that the First Amendment does not apply to private businesses. "In your opening remarks," he told Whitaker, "you said the design of the First Amendment is to prevent 'suppression of speech.' And you left out what I understand to be three key words…'by the government.'"
When "the government excludes speech from the public square, that is obviously a violation of the First Amendment," Kavanaugh said while questioning Clement in the Florida case. "When a private individual or private entity makes decisions about what to include and what to exclude, that's protected generally [as] editorial discretion, even though you could view the private entity's decision to exclude something as 'private censorship.'"
Whitaker noted that "upwards of 99 percent of what goes on the platforms is basically passed through without review," suggesting that Facebook et al. do not engage in meaningful editing prior to publication. But in the 1995 case Hurley v. Irish-American Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Group of Boston, Kavanaugh noted, the Court upheld a private organization's First Amendment right to exclude a gay pride float from a St. Patrick's Day parade, and "the mere fact that the parade organizer usually took almost all comers was irrelevant to the First Amendment interests." In that case and others, Kavanaugh said, the Court has "emphasize[d] editorial control as being fundamentally protected by the First Amendment."
In Hurley, Justice Elena Kagan noted, "we said they don't have a lot of rules, but they have some rules, and we're going to respect the rules that they do have. Even though they let a lot of people come in, they don't let a few people come in, and that seems to be quite important to them." Similarly, she said, social media companies may decide "you can't have hate speech on this site" or "you can't have misinformation with respect to particular subject matter areas." They "have thousands and thousands of employees who are devoted to enforcing those rules," she noted, and "they're making content judgments about the kind of speech that they think they want on the site and the kind of speech that they think is intolerable."
In general, Kagan said, "all these places say we're open for business—post whatever you like, and we'll host it. But there are exceptions to that…which the companies take seriously." They might, for example, make an exception for "misinformation about voting," "misinformation about certain public health issues," "hate speech," or "bullying." Kagan asked Whitaker why it wouldn't be "a classic First Amendment violation for the state to come in and say, we're not…going to allow you to enforce those sorts of restrictions even though…it's like an editorial judgment." Kagan made her answer clear, saying, "I take it to be First Amendment activity."
Justice Amy Coney Barrett agreed that "it all turns on editorial control," asking Whitaker why Facebook et al. are not relevantly similar to a newspaper in that respect. He replied that "it is a strange kind of editor" that "does not actually look at the material that is going [into] its compilation." But even algorithms that filter posts on a larger scale reflect editorial judgments, Barrett noted: "TikTok might have boosted pro-Palestinian speech and reduced pro-Israel speech. That's a viewpoint, right? And if you have an algorithm do it, is that not speech?"
Social media platforms organize content "in ways that reflect preferences, that are expressive of their terms and conditions," Barrett observed. "Don't all methods of organization reflect some kind of judgment?" And "even though there may not be physical space constraints," she said, "there are the constraints of attention," which require platforms to "present information to a consumer in some sort of organized way" so "the consumer can absorb it."
Barrett, like Kavanaugh, brought up bookstores: "Could Florida enact a law telling bookstores that they have to put everything out by alphabetical order and that they can't organize or put some things closer to the front of the store that they think their customers will want to buy?" Whitaker did not directly address that question, although he conceded that "you certainly could imagine…an algorithm that could be expressive."
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson questioned the significance of describing social media platforms as common carriers. "I hear you suggesting that we can just say Facebook is a common carrier and, therefore, everything it does qualifies as conduct and not speech," she told Whitaker. "And I don't think that's really the way we've done this in our past precedents."
Jackson wondered if Nielson was "suggesting that a common carrier…could never have First Amendment protected activity." She suggested that the constitutional analysis depends not on an organization's classification but on "what exactly" it is "doing in a particular circumstance."
Justice Sonia Sotomayor also suggested that the "common carrier" label does not accomplish what Florida wants. The government can't do "some of these things even to common carriers," she said. "A common carrier doesn't have to permit unruly behavior….It can throw somebody off the train if they are threatening somebody else or if they're doing other things." During the oral arguments in the Texas case, Sotomayor said, "I have a problem with laws like this that are so broad that they stifle speech just on their face."
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[Social] media companies may decide "[no] hate speech ... or misinformation ...." They "have thousands and thousands of employees who are devoted to enforcing those rules."
"Think of the JOBS!!"
Sceptical about what, their ability to overturn the established precedent?
SCOTUS has ruled that owning property doesn’t empower anyone to violate inalienable rights.
“ The more an owner, for his advantage, opens up his property for use by the public in general, the more do his rights become circumscribed by the statutory and constitutional rights of those who use it.”
Marsh v State of Alabama 1946
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/326/501
I see 3 tarpits that you don't...lawyers would debate what is 1) property, and 2) what constitutes a violation, and 3) what rights are unalienable since if there is more than one right there must be conflicts (which you deny)
Most Justices Seem Skeptical of the Florida and Texas Social Media Laws
The ladies and gentlemen Justices and
Ketanji Brown Jackson - who apparently doesn't know or identify with either -
appear to have never used Social Media in their entire lives. Yet, they get to set or reconfigure the rules regarding it. How lovely.
As it stands right now, FB bans me too often, Reddit banned me for too long (permanently) with no regard to the amount of money I had paid (lost) into them for digital goods. I, for one, hope that the SCOTUS smacks soc. media co's down hard.
These are private companies and there are alternatives. Wanting the government to exact a revenge you're unable to isn't really how this is supposed to work.
Oh shrike. It is like the Twitter files don't exist in your world.
I'm still not shrike, you lying POS. I know about the Twitter files - or is that now the X files? That doesn't affect the principle. You seem to think that 1A is a privilege only handed out to those who the right gubment - or people like you - think deserve it. And hence Texas and Florida are justified because those social media firms, some of whom may be run by Joos, are being mean to bubba.
Funny, though, that you're incapable of supporting free speech. Not a single principled defence of free speech from you in the three current articles on the subject. Only whining and nit-picking.
You seem to think that 1A is a privilege only handed out to those who the right gubment – or people like you – think deserve it.
Well this is a dumb retort shrike. I'm not the one who worships Soros who funds government agencies to censor bad thought through corporations.
And hence Texas and Florida are justified because those social media firms, some of whom may be run by Joos, are being mean to bubba.
Your antisemitism is showing shrike. I have no problem with companies censoring if done independently of government and done clearly. I also don't agree in favored liability protections for favored companies. That seems to be another Soros mantra.
Funny, though, that you’re incapable of supporting free speech. Not a single principled defence of free speech from you in the three current articles on the subject. Only whining and nit-picking.
And then more of the usual shrike idiocy.
Good work buddy.
Let me ask you this shrike.
Your assertion above is that all material generated by these companies is speech. Currently Gemini is posting false responses about crimes against public figures. Is Google now liable for defamation? By your assertion they are as it is by your definition their speech.
Of Google censored vaccine risks, and someone became sick because of a vaccine, are they liable? If their choice on what to censor is free speech, they are now liable for doing so.
Have fun with the world you want. Lol.
Listen, you piece of shit, I am not shrike.
Further, I am Jewish, and I was clearly parodying the attitude of some of your kameraden. Your lack of comprehension of subtleties, though is something I should have anticipated.
And you also proved my point - when I said you don't support free speech, your response was not to defend free speech, or to show I was wrong, merely to respond in your usual puerile manner. But it's of a piece with your reaction to articles here on police abuses.
How are lies parody shrike?
A parody doesn't need to be true, you lying piece of shit.
You emit fog...Why not use Babylon Bee and quit the abstraction.
So you are in favor of free speech, but if anyone is mistaken, they should be civilly liable?
I've always maintained that Trump bears no responsibility for J6, but oh boy, he certainly would be liable for his small, late and lack of action on J6 under your proposal. Of course, I know you don't think this, but how do you legally separate individuals and "social media companies" without opening up potential abuses of government, gray areas and a chilling effect on free speech? This is where I feel your argument falls apart. If 230 is repealed, conservatives will absolutely be the first victims, the evidence for this is clear in the novel interpretations of laws to go after Trump. Isn't this trend obvious?
Of Google censored vaccine risks, and someone became sick because of a vaccine, are they liable? If their choice on what to censor is free speech, they are now liable for doing so.
The Biden administration should be liable (criminally liable IMO) for attempting (successfully) in controlling speech. The vaccine companies should be liable (Thanks, Trump), but google is not liable.
It is my responsibility and yours to find the truth. Were you fooled by social media companies' vaccine misinformation? Maybe you were too smart to be fooled, but the rest of us dummies need state protection?
Freedom of speech has a long restriction for fraud and defamation that causes actual harm. Im not sure why this is an unknown concept. It goes back to the days of the bill of rights.
How does removing a users content = fraud and defamation?
When it is the government that is preventing the "revenge", just how is it supposed to work?
If these "private" companies work under the umbrella of a government protection, they should have to toe the same lines their protectors do.
Of course, if the government's courts applied Section 203 properly, as it is written, and made the ruling based on the activity being "in good faith", which politically-charged censorship is clearly not, then the playing field would be more equal.
Currently, it is not.
What, you expect life to be easy?
How exactly will empowering this government, the one that used social media against you, to regulate social media will help you in any way at all?
That's not what their religion tells them. They think the First Amendment means you can be any type of Christian you want to be and say anything their Bible says you can say.
You are so stupid it's scary.
You have a President who claims to be Catholic and denies all teaching on abortion. You are really stupid, you know that
Not true in fact, that distinction. It is called in law "REGULATORY CAPTURE"
Regulatory capture is an economic theory that regulatory agencies may come to be dominated by the interests they regulate and not by the public interest.
Did you not see that Gov Newsom said his buddies at Panera Bread can 'overlook' the minimum wage law???
BLOOMBERG
How Panera Bread Ducked California’s New $20 Minimum Wage Law
The governor pushed for a carve-out that’s perplexed industry observers and benefited a donor.
NOw he denies it. same thing though.
Newsom faces corruption, favoritism allegations after Panera Bread's exemption from minimum wage law
But does anyhone incl YOU say that if that were the case , he should be in jail. Bet you don't
Anyone with more then passing familiarity with Reddit knows that you have to try really bleedin' hard to get banned from it. Banned from specific subreddits? Sure. But the whole site?
If true, you crossed a lot of lines, probably repeatedly and with great warning, to get that ban.
Sorry, Reddit is NOT substack. I am banned from the entire site.
They seemed more suspicious the companies algorithms were protected under 230 and kept mentioning social media as publishers.
If they end 230 and open the companies up to suits without liability protections, I am fine with that outcome.
I bet Reason's comments would disappear within minutes the elimination of section 230.
Reason doesn't act as a publisher. 230 would protect open platforms. Not platforms that choose to curate. And likely 230 would open up suits against TOS for platforms and vague contract terms or inconsistent moderation.
The best example is the knitting site that came out clearly and just said no Trump prints. It was clear and concise. The opposite of Twitter and others who said no harmful language and then ban certain accounts for just saying there are 2 sexes.
Clear terms of a company are generally celebrated by libertarians in regards to contracts. If FaceBook wants to ban conservative thought, they can. They would just have to be open about it.
Not sure why you think this would apply to Reason whose only post removal seems to be shrikes child porn links.
Not sure why you think this would apply to Reason whose only post removal seems to be shrikes child porn links.
That's why. Without 230, once you curate anything you're liable for everything thing you didn't.
That is the standard argument used, but it is false.
Right now the TOS for silicon Valley forces all users to utilize arbitration in favorable courts who have allowed the entities to act as a publisher for liability protection when 230 specifically excluded thus protection from publishers. They get their cake and eat it as well.
So anytime a user is unjustly treated it is done so under the guise of 230 through favored protections.
Usually with the argument you just made. It is a false one though. Prior to 230 it wasn't the end of the internet. 230 was intended to motivate user generated content, not to favor corporations through contract abuse.
Right now the TOS for silicon Valley forces all users to utilize arbitration in favorable courts who have allowed the entities to act as a publisher for liability protection when 230 specifically excluded thus protection from publishers. They get their cake and eat it as well.
What?
Read up on Megan Murphy. This is well known for anyone who follows this shit.
I am familiar with the Megan Murphy case. What does it have to do with the word salad you wrote above?
Long live Section 230!!!!
OPEN QUESTIONS FOR ALL ENEMIES OF SECTION 230
The day after tomorrow, you get a jury summons. You will be asked to rule in the following case: A poster posted the following to social media: “Government Almighty LOVES US ALL, FAR more than we can EVER know!”
This attracted protests from liberals, who thought that they may have detected hints of sarcasm, which was hurtful, and invalidated the personhoods of a few Sensitive Souls. It ALSO attracted protests from conservatives, who were miffed that this was a PARTIAL truth only (thereby being at least partially a lie), with the REAL, full TRUTH AND ONLY THE TRUTH being, “Government Almighty of Der TrumpfenFuhrer ONLY, LOVES US ALL, FAR more than we can EVER know! Thou shalt have NO Government Almighty without Der TrumpfenFuhrer, for Our TrumpfenFuhrer is a jealous Government Almighty!”
Ministry of Truth, and Ministry of Hurt Baby Feelings, officials were consulted. Now there are charges!
QUESTIONS FOR YOU THE JUROR:
“Government Almighty LOVES US ALL”, true or false?
“Government Almighty LOVES US ALL”, hurtful sarcasm or not?
Will you be utterly delighted to serve on this jury? Keep in mind that OJ Simpson got an 11-month criminal trial! And a 4-month civil trial!
Biden wanted a Disinformatin Governance Board -- were you sleepin the woods when that happened
Dumbest President in our history
Right wing snowflakes crying about being censored. Right wing nut jobs are the highest ranked on every single social media site.
Under the Trump-dump sail
Over the reefs of monkeyshines
Under the skies of stolen erections
North, north west, the sperms of Spermy Daniels
Under the Arctic lies
Over the seas of slutience
Hauling on frozen dopes
For all my days spermaining
But would Spermy Daniels be true?
All colors bleed to twat-red
Asleep on the ocean's bed
Drifting on empty sperms
For all my days remaining
But would sluts be true?
Why, sluts, why should I?
Why should I cry for you?
Dark angels follow my germs
Over a godless sea of sperms
Mountains of endless falling,
For all my days remaining,
What would be true?
Sometimes I see your face,
The stars seem to lose their place
Why must I think of you, Spermy Daniels?
Why must I?
Why should I?
Why should I cry for you?
Why would you want me to?
And what would it mean to say,
That, 'I spermed you in my fashion'?
What would be true?
Why should I?
Why should I cry for you?
Well, guess such common knowledge needn't be substantiated - -but WAIT !! if it is common knowledge why would you need to sayh it ? Hmmm, dunbness without a mirror 🙂
There doesn't seem to be any shortage of conservative social media and traditional media websites. It sounds like conservatives just want to control all media.
Conservative Media Sites
-------------------------------------------
Red State
Gateway Pundit
Epoch Times
Newsmax
Truth Social
The Blaze
Daily Caller
National Review
Townhall
Infowars
WND
Breitbart
Christian Science Monitor
Human Events
The Federalist
Fox News
New York Post
Washington Times
Washington Examiner
Wall Street Journal
etc.
The first amendment means you can say anything you want, as long as it's biblically correct. At least that's how the Religious Right reads it.
But you just contradicted your own statement. Who decides if it is 'biblically correct' ? Stupid mrmzyzptlk (who thinks no one knows that comes from the comics, such pride accompan;ying such ignorance ) YOU DECIDE< RIGHT? YOU JUST DID 🙂
Only a backwoods hillbilly brain-injured "straw in his mouth' dropout would call WSJ conservative !!!!!! Christian Science Monitor -- are you kidding. Yet you left off Epoch Times, Bet you are Falun Gong , right.
Gateway Pundit
You did not just say that with a straight face.
How do you distinguish Facebook from verizon?
After all, by NetChoice’s argument, verizon has a First Amendment right to block people who use their communications infrastructure to spread Communist ideas.
And what about telephone companies at the height of the Civil Rights movement? Again, common carriage laws were already in effect, so I doubt any of them denied service to civil rights activists because of their message. But their arguments to the Supreme Court implies that these telephone companies had the First Amendment right to cut off telephone services to those who would use their telephone service to spread ideas about racial equality.
Now that we have many options of phone carriers due to mobile phones, Verizon should be able to block people that use their service for anything they don't like.
I doubt it would be good for business if customers knew that Verizon was listening in and banning people so their business would fail. Unlike social media were users try to share their content with many users publicly, Verizon users wish to target their message to a single or a few people privately.
During the civil rights era, you had no choice who your phone service provider was. There was a single wire available to your home, which most people think justified common carrier rules.
NO such implication is possible ,which --- SURPRISE !!! --- is why it never happened. Now if you were honest and educated you would point to the government in the South during the Civil War telling preachers that certain passages implying equality cannot be preached. But you wouldn't because you love racism (Yeah, you can't hide it)
The protection from liability issued by Section 230 is only attained if the "moderation" is done "in good faith", which means censoring content that is universally, or closely so, objectionable, inherently harmful, or inciting imminent violence.
Remember, the moderating of comments began when social media was being used to recruit terrorist to jihadist organizations.
It was not for it to be used because of the political sensibilities of the platform moderators.
Censoring due to political ideology is not being done in good faith, and not deserving of the protection of Section 230.
Much of what we see is the result of judicial cowardice, in not wanting to take up contentious issues. So they take a pass.
and this leads to lawyers not taking on cases ( as with Alabama's recent IVF babies ruling) and not taking them on because a strong arm will not let a lawyer take it on.
You are ushering in the police state.Were you like this when Biden stormed about the need for the Disinformation Governance Board.
What a stupid President we have.
To the contrary, former U.S. Solicitor General Paul Clement said on behalf of the tech trade group NetChoice, those laws violate the First Amendment by interfering with constitutionally protected editorial judgments.
Editorial judgements are not, as a matter of fact, protected under the First Amendment.
You have no right whatsoever to shut people up.
You don't have to listen, but you're not endowed with a right to force others to not speak.
The Supreme Court seems inclined to recognize that content moderation is protected by the First Amendment.
If a company is moderating content, then they should be held accountable for content; meaning: they should be liable for every libelous statement, every fraud, every piece in support of terrorism, every election manipulation happening on their platform. The corporations should be held financially liable, and its officers should be held criminally liable.
You can’t have it both ways: claims 1A protection for moderation but disclaim all responsibility for content.
Except that doesn't follow and the opposite is strongly impliled: The Internet started with DARPA , a truly public utility that 'gave' access to the current Internet sources. This is like the postman case about working on Sunday for USPS because Amazon doesn't want to spend any money and should be able to force the USPS and its workers to work for Amazon.
USPS / DARPA, same thing. If you play with federal equipment (meaning what we citizens paid for) WE get to say what you do with it.
There is no “but, but, but, It’s for the children” 1st Amendment exemption in the US Constitution.
Nor is there a “but, but, but, It’s for the children” exemption in the 14th Amendment.
The "nanny" States can just go F'Off and go join Russia if that's the BS they want.
That's why right and left are more the same than different. They both think the constitution was written for their side.
It was written for your side. Obvious.
minus the fact that the left is the consequence-implementers of the rights good intentions gone wrong. Like watching the cattle farmers open the gate and wonder why all the cows (Nazi's) got out.
Biden is not the only stupid and lazy lawyer in the US, is what that proves. Bottom 10 his law class and obviously unware of the 1st semester legal reasoning that Thomas cites :
"Justice Thomas looked for more clarity in whether “shadowbanning” and “deprioritization” were types of content moderation. The justices also seemed to reject NetChoice's categorization of all of these functions as exercises of “editorial discretion.”"
Back to Plato, Aristotle, and Socrates and the dangers of sophistry. You call it 'moderation" and I say To-mah-toe