Rivian Continues To Hemorrhage Money Despite $1.5 Billion in State Incentives
According to a new Bloomberg report, Rivian has lost 93 percent of its market value since November 2021. The state of Georgia is still on the hook for as much as $1.5 billion in state incentives.

The market for electric vehicles in the U.S. continues to grow: In January 2023, 7.1 percent of all new light-duty vehicles registered were electric, a 74 percent year-over-year increase. During that same period, Tesla's market share dropped from 72 percent to 58 percent, a sign of serious competition in the space.
Unfortunately, not every company is reaping the benefits: According to a report from Bloomberg, market analysts are increasingly skeptical about the future prospects of Rivian, maker of luxury all-electric trucks and SUVs. In the years since its founding, the company has received multi-billion-dollar investments from established firms like Ford and Amazon, and the state of Georgia is giving as much as $1.5 billion in state incentives for Rivian to build a factory there.
Last month, Reason reported that after a successful November 2021 initial public offering (IPO) that saw its balance sheet swell to $18.1 billion in cash and a market cap of more than $150 billion, "Rivian's stock lost 80 percent of its value, making it 2022's worst-performing stock on the NASDAQ 100." Additionally, by December 2022, "Rivian's cash on hand had fallen 36 percent, to $11.6 billion."
According to Bloomberg, the company's market cap "now stands at less than $12 billion after a 93% stock wipeout, reflecting almost no value beyond the company's cash hoard," which it cited as "cash and equivalents of $11.6 billion and debt of $1.6 billion." First-quarter revenue projections "have fallen more than 25% since the end of December." And despite struggling to fill its own orders amid rising interest rates, the company may have to come up with even more cash, and quickly.
Ivana Delevska, chief investment officer at SPEAR Invest, told Bloomberg that Rivian "still needs to invest several billion dollars to prove out its business model." Similarly, Alexander Potter of investment bank Piper Sandler said that while the company "shouldn't abandon its strategy," it would likely need to raise at least $4 billion by 2025 to fund its projected growth.
There's a problem with that: Rivian is required to invest at least $5 billion in its Georgia factory by the end of 2028 in order to qualify for the full $1.5 billion in state incentives. Even under the company's own best estimates, that's a gamble. CEO R.J. Scaringe told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution that the company's future was inextricably tied to the Georgia factory, saying "There's not another option…. This must work." Further, the company doesn't expect to be able to manufacture any vehicles from the Georgia plant until at least 2026.
Rivian's own CFO doesn't expect the company to be profitable until sometime in 2024, and even then, it's not clear that those profits will be enough to make up for the losses the company has already accrued. Meanwhile, the state of Georgia will still have committed hundreds of millions of dollars, or more, in taxpayer-funded incentives.
Americans tend to keep their cars for around 12 years on average. Since the majority of motorists will be in the market within a given decade, electric vehicles are a relatively easy way to introduce clean, climate-friendly technology into widespread usage. And with growing demand in the market, numerous automakers are stepping up to fill that need. But it's important to let the market lead the way forward, not government planners. Unfortunately, Rivian—and Georgia's risky bet on a growth-stage company—may serve as a cautionary tale on central planning.
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The market for electric vehicles in the U.S. continues to grow:
I guess Rivian is that one bud on the plant that isn't blooming.
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Practical EV’s are a pipe dream.
They have their uses like an errand car around town if you have money to spare. Short haul fleets sure. But they are not any greener than than ICE over the life cycle.
They are actually quite a bit greener: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RhtiPefVzM
Sources for each claim are in the description.
Doesn't mean they should be subsidized, but they have their merits.
Propaganda. Didn’t watch.
@1:54, the video is unadulterated bullshit. Imagine saying I’m going to prove toothpaste brand A is more environmentally sustainable than toothpaste brand B by completely ignoring which packaging and toothpaste is more disposable. None of the rest of it matters and you're rather literally saying you don't give a shit.
Earlier, they say they’ll look into mining lithium, but lithium is hardly the only metal used disparately and requisitely in EVs.
It’s the same industry shills quoting the same obviously flawed academic studies, the same EV government subsidies and grants paid for. It’s, astoundingly, more corrupt and dishonest than the oil industry despite having been around for so much less time.
If the production and daily use of either toothpaste A or B produces astronomically more waste/emissions than the disposal, and there are multiple peer-reviewed studies supporting this, then yes, I'm literally saying I don't give a shit.
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‘Peer reviewed’……
So a circle jerk? Nope. MC is correct and you’re wrong. Case closed.
CA recently enacted a special tax on mining in the Salton Sea area (the largest lithium deposit in US territory).
Looks like the taxpayers in GA may end up indirectly subsidizing Rivian's CA tax bill at some point in the future. Maybe unlikely though, since the level of CA tax on lithium mining here has been described as high enough to make any attempt to establish an operation in the area economically untenable.
They are already practical, for the uses they are practical for: daily commuter, errands, local delivery
That’s true, since it’s a tautology. But they aren’t practical for usage by typical drivers.
It’s not a tautology. It would have been but I included examples of ways they are useful.
There's already cheaper, practical vehicles for these activities. ICE vehicles.
Maybe so. Regardless, I was responding to Elmer’s comment.
Not relative to their price. Even with massive government subsidies at all levels they are much more expensive than their ICE counterparts.
But; There's nothing... Nothing at all that GUN poking citizens can't accomplish../s
The reason why they want everyone to go EV is that the rich have invested tons of their moneys into wall street stock in EV cars. Since EV cars are going nowhere, the government stepped in by providing incentives such as tax credits for buying an EV. That didn't work so now they are passing laws to force people to buy EV cars. It is all done to assure the rich don't loose their millions in a misguided, idiotic investment. Socialize the rich, capitalize the poor, that is how US capitalism really works.
It also benefits Biden’s ChiCom masters.
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Nicola isn't blooming either. Its stock is 1/3 of what it was in February. This company has no chance. What idiot names his company after that of his competitor? That screams "copycat".
Ford lost a fortune on EVs and Chevy cancelled the "Bolt".
Without subsidies, these failures would never have started in the first place.
Look, you keep telling me that we're losing money on every sale. How much do we need to increase sales to finally turn a profit?
The "economics" of the new "green" economy would be funny if it weren't done at the behest of our stolen tax dollars. When you come up with some bullshit number of trillions that climate change will cost when we finally start getting cooked by the sun, every "investment" looks sane to the moronic believers.
It's like watching other people watch Homer Simpson design a car and then watching them come to the conclusion, "The *real* problem is that it wasn't electric!"
"I got that reference!"
well, its backed into a corner. Price is mor than the market will bear, so subsidies from OUR pockets (Georgia on my mind....) tax beaks, inside deals and more government money to fund development, subsidies in way of lower licensing fees, tolls, ferries, and no road use taxes which are paid out of fuel taxes collected.
And NO ONE is talking realistically about what happens when they crash, wear out, fail, or otherwise cease being useful as a vehicle.... disposing of those dangerous minerals and oth materials is dangerous and costly. WHO pays for that? Should be a hefty deposit paid down when the car is first purchased, toward disposal. Otherwise guess who WILL pay for that? That's correct... we who do not own them. It will become an environmental crisis and we will ALL have to pay up. View the product from in the ground as minerals and molecules, and price the pathway back to there, or reuse in someting else, even if that "something" is another car just like it.
Also, no one is talking realistically about where the power to charge them is coming from.
That's where catch-22 really kicks in.
Once a particular manufacturer sells more than a certain number of vehicles, the tax credits for purchasing them go away; it was the only remaining tack they had keep subsidizing everyone except for Elon Musk without actually singling out Tesla in the wording of the law.
Increase sales too much, and they'll have to reduce their selling price. They could possibly revert to the GM business model of the 80s and 90s, where the company was willing to take a loss on low-quality vehicles because they'd re-envisioned their primary business as selling replacement parts and service for their vehicles when they broke down. No need to make a profit on the initial sale if you're going to get to re-sell the same vehicle to the same customer two more times, one part at a time...
That's... not how the credits work under the current system. There is no such limit on the number of vehicles.
Looks like that part actually got lifted as part of the "Inflation Reduction Act", but it used to be 200k total vehicles by one manufacturer before that company's products were DQed from further tax credit eligibility, but only if the final assembly is done in North America (and assuming the car and buyer meet certain other financial criteria).
https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/605081/ev-tax-credit-inflation-reduction-act-2022-changes
also, the IRS site with all of the current qualification rules for the credit:
https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/credits-for-new-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after
$1.5 Billion
That would feed Stacy Abrams for a week!
Or haul her about 30 mi.
Not in an EV.
Well, their pickup can get a 5000 lb rv about 90 miles so on a charge more like 25 for her Jabbaness.
90 is in the useless range for a vehicle. With those specs they deserve to fail.
Idk where the 90 figure came from but nobody claimed that EVs were ideal for towing.
So the people wanting to ban gasoline and diesel powered trucks also want to ban trailers? So no more camping in an RV, no more hauling stuff to the dump, no more mobile businesses? I see a flaw in this plan.
Two weeks maybe. Three during diet month.
Since the majority of motorists will be in the market within a given decade, electric vehicles are a relatively easy way to introduce clean, climate-friendly technology into widespread usage.
4 wheels and a battery good.
Fire bad!
Love that quote. Since practicality apparently isn’t an issue, he might as well have substituted bicycles for EVs.
You will obey and be happy.
"clean, climate-friendly technology"
Assumes facts not in evidence.
Why aren't Trump supporters applauding tariffs and subsidies? Oh yeah. Principals, not principles.
You produce more daily Trump headlines than my local newspaper. And that's saying something.
I don’t think anybody here that supported his tariff policies supported any subsidies…
Tariffs good subsidies bad. k
Poor sarc
I just spent five minutes on the Rivian website. There is a page with some really general information on each model. It's easy enough to "Make a reservation" for $1000 on a credit card. They're real proud you can track your car on their app once it's out to be delivered. But, no word about any other small items, like the final cost of the vehicle. They don't even mention sound system, driver or passenger amenities, or even the fucking colors.
Do sane people really commit to a >$60k sale like this?
Yes, we call them ‘democrats’. Mindless thralls.
Took me less than 30 seconds to find the configurator. You're welcome: https://rivian.com/vehicle-studio/r1t
OK, the prices are there. Was not easy to find. Still, there's no "Order this car" button on the configuration page. No mention of options when you put down your $1000 "reservation". The more I look at it, the less serious they are at selling cars.
This whole thing looks more like an obvious scam to collect money from they government and true-believers.
They had over 100k orders as of November. Their trucks on the used market are still fetching more than MSRP. I don't think their ability to sell is the problem.
Not worth wasting words on people paid to post for the GQP and Oil Industry.
Cumulatively (since Q3 2021), Rivian produced nearly 35,000 electric vehicles and delivered over 29,000. Electric vehicle maker Rivian Automotive said Monday that its first-quarter deliveries were in line with expectations and that it remains on track to produce 50,000 EVs in 2023. Rivian said in a statement that it produced 9,395 EVs in the first quarter and delivered 7,946 vehicles to customers by quarter-end.
So they should deliver that last order in around 2030? ????
I live in a place where Rivians are everywhere. It’s ok. They’re not for you. Just don’t be bitter about it and spend the rest of your life griping about EVs on random forums.
Nobody is trying to sell you one nor convince you to buy their stock so just relax.
lol.. [WE] don't care if you don't like our cars YOU get to buy them anyways... Hut hum; Gov-Gun theft taxes subsidies...
Bullshit, nobody lives in a place where Rivians are "everywhere".
They have nearly 30,000 deliveries as of end of Q1. I assure you they are common in places like SF and LA. Even here in Phoenix they're not really a notable sighting anymore.
Rivian said in a statement that it produced 9,395 EVs in the first quarter and delivered 7,946 vehicles to customers by quarter-end. ????
EV’s ARE a problem. The environmental issues are bad enough. Now we have China as the dominant source g,o ally of raw materials for the powertrain. So each EV manufactured makes the ChiComs a little stronger.
Good fucking job.
Where does most of the world's oil come from and what's the state of human rights in those countries? Asking for a friend.
Before the Biden regime was installed in the WH the US was the largest producer of oil and gas. America is still the freest country with the most liberal human rights. Any questions?
Mine scoped out at $84k. But then I splurged and got... paint.
You selected a paint color other than silver, which is included. This is common among premium automakers. Go spec a BMW 3 series, any color other than standard black or white costs extra.
They're still bleeding cash, fanboy. Maybe they could use Solyndra's old HQ to hide their off-books debt.
And maybe you could use a hat to hide your male pattern baldness.
Subsidies are bad so Rivian and all EVs must also be bad. I'm incapable of using their website so it must be a scam. Anyone who disagrees with me or looks at the situation objectively must be a fanboy.
Is this really the level of reasoning that you've let yourself be reduced to? Pathetic. We're supposed to be better than that.
Don’t use the word “we” around here because it’s every “man” for himself. Literally every man because only men seem to waste their time posturing in these forums. Blame it on excess toilet time…
Do they at least have a complete steering wheel?
A fancy sound system would just reduce the overall range of the vehicle. Not as if the stereo runs off of a different set of batteries as the motor in an EV. Same goes for climate controls.
A good friend of mine works for Rivian (no idea what he does), and I still don't get the concept of an "outdoorsy" type EV which can't travel that far off the pavement unless you're hauling a gas powered generator and a few jerry cans of fuel for it.
Might be OK for "glamping" sites where there's an electrical hookup intended for RVs, but then you're the only ones around sleeping in tents.
It’s ok, just keep on typing those words even if they make no sense to you. It’s called “Dunning Kruger Effect”. Check it out sometime.
Nobody shall engage you except for the purpose of mockery.
I forgot, on EVs, the stereo is powered by a hamster-wheel connected to a dynamo salvaged from an old crank-powered gramophone. Only the motors are actually powered by the primary batteries since electrons know what purpose they were energized for and refuse to flow into any other device than the one they were assigned to by destiny.
Or maybe electrical current is fungible and any kind of draw on the system takes away from the total battery energy that's available to power the other systems connected to the same supply?
Guess I was wrong after all. As long as you only want to camp and go off-road in a 200 mile radius around Paris, TN there's a solar-powered charger set up for use.
It's only in the other 96% of the land area of the "lower 48" states that you'd have to be packing your own equipment capable of powering the recharge (and with the "waypoints" stations putting out 11.5kW each, that's a lot of 100 or 200W goal zero panels to haul around and set up/break down.
What are you even talking about? There are third-party chargers all over the country. Popular offroading sites like Moab, Rubicon Trail, Ouray, Sedona all have abundant charging infrastructure nearby. You'd be hard pressed to find one that doesn't.
The number of people who are in these comments staunchly opposing EVs while not knowing a damn thing about them is just astounding. Emotions and tribalism have completely taken over and it's embarrassing.
I was talking more about using the vehicle for disbursed camping or to get to trailheads for back-country camping. From what I've read about the "vampire drain" in the Rivian, leaving it parked for 48 or more hours without charging seems like a crap shoot, depending on how far you're traveling from the nearest charger.
Also it looks like the "ample charging infrastructure" you're referring to has been almost entirely built within the last two years or so. I was at the Lake Tahoe end of the Rubicon in July 2021, and can't remember seeing any kind of signage about EV charging being present (or "coming soon"), although to be fair, I also wasn't looking for it; also talked about off-roading in Moab with a Rivian rep last June, he didn't mention anything about charging stations having been put in out there but again I also didn't ask. I haven't been to Moab since 2016 (hoping to get back there this fall if I can swing it), so I'll admit to being less than familiar with current developments around there.
From what I can find on a google search today, virtually all of the media coverage mentioning anything about EV infrastructure in more remote places seems to be in "trade magazines" (Car and Driver being the only one I've heard of today, and that's one that very few off-roaders that I'm aware of pay attention to since their coverage of trucks and OHVs is sub-par on a good day).
I'm assuming you work in the EV industry, or for a company that manufactures/installs charging stations if you think that these kinds of developments have ever been elevated to a level that would make them known to anyone not actively seeking them out.
The one's still wearing the mask would undoubtedly.
Rivian was massive overfunded, and overvalued. I hope these losses hurt a lot of leftists.
” I hope these losses hurt a lot of leftists.”
Next up: Biden declares a “state of emergency” on climate change and, through his pen (I doubt he is coherent on a phone at this stage), nationalizes… er… sorry… bails out Rivian GM-style and makes the taxpayers losers …er… “partners” in Rivian.
Sorry, not even if I were the single winner of a billion-dollar Powerball jackpot would I ever buy something that looks so hideous.
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Telling everyone you’re poor without telling everyone you’re poor.
charge it on solar. green!
who falls for this shit?
i can buy a ford maverick (maybe) with a hybrid and have no range anxiety and y'all don't have to subsidize me. for about 30 grand less.
electric cars are retarded
This is like saying you could buy a 20 year old Ford Explorer instead of a Bentley Bentayga. It’s patently absurd and moronic.
I have several Mavericks and a Rivian and while I agree a Maverick is more practical than a R1T it is similar to comparing the Maverick to a F150 Raptor. Nobody in the market for a Raptor is considering the Maverick as anything close to an equivalent.
My R1T gets comparable range to my Bronco Raptor and costs about the same. They are both good in their own ways and could be reasonably “practical” if you’re in the market for a high performance super truck.
We saw it in Wisconsin with Foxconn. Now we see it in Georgia with Rivian. When will politicians quit giving away their states for a new business opportunity? Never as long as it is the taxpayer's money and not their own. Hopefully some people involved pay the price, not just the taxpayers.
On a related topic, have any of you been following the idea getting promoted in the engineering magazines (e.g. IEEE Spectrum) in which EVs are used as mass energy storage to support the electric grid? The simple version of the concept is that everyone leaves their car plugged in when not in use, and if the grid is running short they’ll claw back some of the charge.
As an electrical engineer I can appreciate the technical benefits. As a libertarian and driver it’s absolutely horrifying. The EV battery at full charge is already marginal to get where you need to go, and they’re proposing that I might wake up and they’ve taken half of it?
Don’t believe for one second that leaving it plugged in would remain voluntary. They’ll start the mandatory part for “emergencies” and then become dependent on having “emergencies” all the time since having the governor or Energy Secretary issue a declaration is way cheaper and faster than building peak generation capacity.
Ain’t no way I’m going full electric unless this idea is killed. I’ve got a hybrid and enjoy the 600 mile range on one tank, but more importantly I enjoy having my own built in charging source on-board.
Outside of California, making something like that mandatory seems pretty unlikely. They already do this with thermostats in some places, where you can opt-in in exchange for some small savings on your utility bills. The fact that it's "way cheaper" than expanding energy capacity just makes it easier to justify monetary incentives.
Add to that the difficulty of enforcing such a mandate and the carrot becomes more compelling than the stick.
Buy the car that makes you happy and makes sense for your needs. Worst case scenario you just sell your EV and go back to hybrid.
It sounds like you’re a bit paranoid. Granted there are legitimate reasons to feel this way but again, Dunning Kruger is working overtime in your case. If you don’t own an EV why speculate about it? It’s pointless. It’s like talking to yourself about quantum mechanics when you’ve just barely made it out of high school. You just sound crazy.
He is not crazy, he is seeing the future. Internal combustion engines are being banned in states and will be made mandatory someday. Thinking about the future is not crazy ignoring what is going on is more insane. It's like graduating from high school and never thinking about a job because you can live in mom and dad's basement forever.
If you don’t own an EV why speculate about it?
Because at some point people may have no other option? If you didn't own any LED light bulbs why speculate on their future, right?
I finally realized why the elites are pushing electric cars so hard. It's not (just) that they want to get the masses off the roads and into mass transit where they can be better controlled. They want to trick us into solving the storage problem with solar and wind power. The problem isn't that it's technically impossible, but that the cost of even a few minutes worth of storage is astronomical - so they want each family to buy a couple of large batteries and stick them in our garages, attached to the grid. The motors, wheels, etc., are just the delivery system to get them home...
First, I can't stand it when someone says they're a "libertarian". Aren't we all for basic liberties? Please spare us the righteousness. Second, there's a workaround. Unplug your damn car from the grid.
Third, where the hell are you driving every day that you can't get there and back on 100 to 150 miles worth of a charge? And are there no charging stations in between where you're going? Hybrids are great, but you're paying for two engines and the repair on both. Expensive repairs in the end.
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All car manufacturers get subsidies. Tesla got more than most and took years to become profitable.
What kinds of subsidies?
The kind where Gov-Guns show up at everyone's door at the end of the year and STEALS money.
Isn't the Gov't allowed to have guns? Aren't we all?
Well; Only the #1 Gov-Gun-Monopoly [WE]-gang of politicians gets do with them whatever they want. That gang likes their monopoly on 'armed-theft' and any other criminal is considered competition to their gang.
Once upon a time they were limited by the people's law over them to only be used to ensure Liberty and Justice. But today; it's gangland politics. Whoever has the 'baddest' gang wins!
...the very difference between a "democracy" and a Constitutional Republic.
Educate yourself. That's the best I can offer. The information is out there. Not hard to find, unless you avoid it.
Q: how much do Georgia taxpayers actually lose if Rivian went Ch. 7 tomorrow?
Did you not read this article? Rivian has $10+ B in cash. They’re not going bankrupt anytime soon but they will need a lot of cash come 2024 because their burn rate and future capital requirements don’t look so good.
Their prospects will align with slowing inflation and interest rate increases. With that in mind Georgia most likely has closer to $0 invested in this deal than the “hundreds of millions” inaccurately stated in this article.
Rivian is getting property tax breaks and since the factory doesn’t exist and the town in which they’re building the factory wasn’t some high end real estate to begin with there’s negligible public money currently at stake.
You can work out how this deal is structured below because there is current litigation due to the locals not wanting the factory in their town:
https://www.ajc.com/news/appeals-court-largely-sides-with-state-in-case-over-rivian-incentives/AJITP33C7ZBKLAG7JW5V3TIF7A/
Never-mind that other $1T of lost STOLEN money...
"The sky is falling! The sky if falling!"
Wonder if anyone even cares to keep in mind the very reasoning behind this idiocy to begin with.
If I had only known, I could have bid going broke for only one billion, and saved GA half a billion tax dollars.
"(M)ay serve as a cautionary tale on central planning"
No, sadly, it won't.
CB
Rivian would have been a great success except for 1 problem. TESLA. regardless of the fact that they were the first production pick up truck, they had to measure up to a company that had already broken the ground and has an immeasurable lead in all aspects. The IPO was ridiculous and as a Rivian preorder holder I got to buy the stock and flip it early, knowing it was overvalued. The truck was good. Really quick, but the software was/is inferior to Tesla. Sold it after 4 months. The Cybertruck will blow minds. Rivian suffers from the same crippling problem that every other EV manufacturer other than Tesla does…No Supercharging Network. Every other brand is relegated to fighting over the broken networks that might get their acts together but have not yet.
The negativity towards EV’s on this forum from people who have never driven one is absurd. I maintained a fleet of diesels and have driven every ICE vehicle worth mentioning and if you don’t get that EV’s are superior in every way, good luck. Rivian might make it, I actually hope they do, but don’t bet on it.
Where do you live? According to Car and Driver, the range of the average EV drops by about 20% in cold weather, and that's before you turn on the heater. EVs will need a lot of work to be viable in places like New England, the upper Midwest, the Great Plains, and high in the Rocky Mountains when brutal cold weather is commonplace.
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/much-driving-range-ev-lose-cold-winter/
I'll be keeping my ICE vehicle for now, since it won't lose that much range when it gets ice cold out.
New England.
No problem. Joe Biden has already taken care of all of this in his Inflation Reduction Act. Global warming is a problem of the past.
Climate expert Bjorn Lomborg ran the IRA through the United Nations’ temperature models. He discovered that the IRA reduces expected global warming through 2100 by just 0.0009° F. This is like cranking a thermostat from 72° F all the way down to 71.9991° F.
So, $369 billion achieves just 0.0333% of Biden’s goal. Thus, Biden’s desired 2.7° reduction would cost $1.108 quadrillion — with a Q — more than 35 times America’s $31.5 trillion national debt.
Such madness confirms that the Democrat Party has slouched from a serious political institution into America’s largest mental hospital
His other hobby is alcoholism. Which he combines with his Reason hobby to spectacularly pathetic results.