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Free Speech

Do Politicians Have a First Amendment Right To Lie to You?

Plus: Missouri's "Don't Say Gay" bill, exempting parents from income tax, and more...

Elizabeth Nolan Brown | 2.10.2023 9:31 AM

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Pinocchio doll | Photo by <a href="https://unsplash.com/@reskp?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText">Jametlene Reskp</a> on <a href="https://unsplash.com/photos/Q79XFGuTFfM?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText">Unsplash</a>
(Photo by Jametlene Reskp on Unsplash )

Do politicians have a First Amendment right to lie on the campaign trail? Probably so, suggests a federal court in a new ruling.

North Carolina's ban on dishonesty in political campaigns is "facially unconstitutional," the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit said.

The appeals court's ruling isn't a final judgment. Rather, the court held that a lower court was wrong not to temporarily halt enforcement against the state's attorney general as his challenge to the law finished playing out. But in doing so, appeals court judges also held that the attorney general's challenge was likely right on the merits of the case and that it was difficult to imagine him losing.

The case stems from the attempted prosecution of Josh Stein, North Carolina's Democratic attorney general (and, now, a candidate for governor). Stein was up for reelection in 2020 and ran against Republican Forsyth County District Attorney Jim O'Neill. One of Stein's campaign ads said "O'Neill left 1,500 rape kits on a shelf."

O'Neill alleged this criticism was inaccurate because police—not prosecutors—are in charge of processing rape kits.

He filed a complaint with North Carolina's Board of Elections, accusing Stein of violating a 1931 North Carolina law that criminalizes "derogatory" campaign ads that candidates know "to be false or in reckless disregard of its truth or falsity, when such report is calculated or intended to affect the chances of such candidate for nomination or election."

The board didn't recommend criminal charges be brought. Nonetheless, Wake County District Attorney Lorrin Freeman planned to propose charges before a state grand jury last summer.

Going on the offensive, Stein sued to stop the prosecution. A district court declined to issue a preliminary injunction against the law.

Now, the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals has handed Stein a preliminary victory, overturning the district court's denial of the injunction and declaring the law he was to be charged under "likely unconstitutional for two reasons."

"First, the Act appears to criminalize at least some truthful statements—a result the First Amendment forbids," wrote Judge Toby J. Heytens, pointing out that the court could not find "any source suggesting 'derogatory' refers exclusively to factually false statements." Because of this, the law could have "chilling effects on truthful speech during political campaigns."

"Second, even if the Act reaches only false statements, it makes impermissible content-based distinctions in selecting which speech to forbid," Heytens wrote.

The law doesn't, for instance, ban "inflating a candidate's credentials or promoting self-aggrandizing falsehoods, nor does it touch knowing falsehoods that undermine the perception of electoral integrity without referencing a particular candidate." And "under this statute, speakers may lie with impunity about businesspeople, celebrities, purely private citizens, or even government officials so long as the victim is not currently a 'candidate in any primary or election.' That is textbook content discrimination," which the First Amendment forbids.

The appeals court vacated the district court's order denying a preliminary injunction and sent the case back to the district court "for further proceedings consistent with this opinion."


FREE MINDS

Missouri's version of Florida's "Don't Say Gay" bill says only licensed mental health professionals can talk to students about sexual orientation or gender identity. The proposal, which got a hearing in front of the Missouri Senate Education and Workforce Development Committee earlier this week, "would ban teachers from discussing gender identity or sexual orientation at any grade level, no matter the class subject," reports The Kansas City Star:

It would limit any public or charter school staff member from discussing gender identity or sexual orientation unless they are a mental health care provider and have permission from a parent.

It would go further than Florida's "Don't Say Gay" law that passed last year. In Florida, the law prohibits instruction on gender identity and sexual orientation in kindergarten through third grade, but Missouri's does not specify a grade level.

Critics of the bill say it would prohibit LGBTQ teachers from discussing their spouses because it could indicate their sexual orientation. They say it could also ban books from being taught if they include LGBTQ characters or topics, and forbid discussion of gender identity and sexual orientation in health classes.

Missouri state Sen. Mike Moon, the Ash Grove Republican behind the bill, said the intention of the bill is to allow mental health professionals to counsel students instead of staff members who may not be trained properly.

Moon is calling it the "Vulnerable Child Compassion and Protection Act." You can find the full text of the bill (S.B. 134) here. A legislative summary says it would prohibit "any school nurse, counselor, teacher, principal, or other personnel at a public or charter school from discussing gender identity or sexual orientation with a student unless such person is a licensed mental health provider with prior parental permission."


FREE MARKETS

Would you have more kids if it meant never paying taxes again? The New York Times' Jessica Grose looks at Hungary's plan to exempt some mothers from income tax:

In December, the political director for Prime Minister Viktor Orbán tweeted, "women who become mothers before turning 30 will be exempt from paying personal income tax!" That's on top of a raft of other initiatives meant to boost the number of Hungarian babies, including allowing mothers of four or more children to be permanently exempt from paying taxes, a mortgage repayment plan for families with two or more children, a subsidy program for larger families buying seven-passenger cars and allowing grandparents to be eligible for payment for caring for their grandchildren.

As the Hungarian diplomat Andras Doncsev explained in a November talk at Texas A&M University's Bush School of Government and Public Service as part of a conference on what it called "the global birth strike," the Hungarian government is spending over 5 percent of its gross domestic product on family support; it is spending three times the amount on family as it is on its military, he said.

Will it work? The history of pro-natalist policies like these in other countries doesn't bode well for that happening. Jennifer D. Sciubba, author of 8 Billion and Counting: How Sex, Death, and Migration Shape Our World, points out that Hungary's fertility rate has risen from 1.2 to 1.5, but this is still nowhere near replacement level fertility (which is 2.1). Hungary only "managed to raise its super low fertility to just regular ole low fertility."

More from Grose:

When Sciubba and I spoke, she said it almost seems that when a country falls below replacement level, no matter how many family-friendly policies are enacted, it can't get back up again. "I think we need to learn a lot more about that, but that's fascinating," she said. The reason is probably a complicated mix of social and cultural forces that are unique to individual countries. But at its core, it seems to me that no amount of additional financial support would make a person want to be a parent without an intrinsic desire for children that goes beyond any realistic level of compensation. Some people just don't want to be parents when they're allowed to make that choice, and that isn't something that should be or can be changed.


QUICK HITS

Republicans and Democrats had their annual gala that's meant to be a comedic event (I know, weird)

And @RepNancyMace went full goblin mode. pic.twitter.com/tIYljXcpcn

— Keith Edwards (@keithedwards) February 9, 2023

• A bipartisan group of senators has reintroduced legislation to repeal the 1991 and 2002 Authorizations for Use of Military Force (AUMFs) that gave a green light to the Gulf War and the Iraq war. "Congress has failed to repeal these AUMFs to prevent potential misuse by future presidents," notes an email statement from Sen. Rand Paul's office. You can find the full bill here.

• Josh Barro looks at "Biden's effective and Clintonesque sowing of fear, uncertainty and doubt about Republicans' stewardship of popular benefit programs."

• Texas is challenging a Biden administration rule requiring pharmacies to dispense abortion drugs to anyone with a valid prescription.

• At least nine states are trying to restrict or criminalize drag shows.

• A former employee of the St. Louis Children's Hospital's Transgender Center writes about the shaky standards for treatment she witnessed there.

Jamie Reed is a progressive. She is a queer woman married to a transman. She has devoted her career to the vulnerable.

Which is why she joined the Transgender Center at St. Louis Children's Hospital four years ago.

Today she is blowing the whistle.https://t.co/C08n30n1hh

— Bari Weiss (@bariweiss) February 9, 2023

• The Biden administration's new Title IX rule becomes public in May, "though it's unclear when it would take effect," notes USA Today. Biden's changes would add gender identity discrimination to the law's purview, expand the definition of sexual harassment (requiring schools to investigate anything that meets this lower bar), and require schools to use the "preponderance of evidence" standard instead of the more stringent "clear and convincing evidence" standard in sexual assault cases.

• An anonymous State Department official says that the Chinese balloon the Pentagon shot down last weekend had "multiple antennas" to collect intelligence and that these were "inconsistent" with weather balloons. Since the balloon was shot down, a number of officials have made anonymous statements about it being a spy balloon. But no official statement on the balloon has been released since it was shot down.

• San Francisco Supervisor Hillary Ronen is urging state legislators to decriminalize prostitution.

• The idea that Americans have only been gaining weight since the 1980s is wrong, suggests Matthew Yglesias.

• A few things that most people get wrong about the brain.

Start your day with Reason. Get a daily brief of the most important stories and trends every weekday morning when you subscribe to Reason Roundup.

This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged.

NEXT: After Tyre Nichols Killing, It’s Once Again Time To Build a Bipartisan Movement for Police Reform

Elizabeth Nolan Brown is a senior editor at Reason.

Free SpeechReason RoundupFirst AmendmentLies and the First AmendmentPoliticsCampaigns/ElectionsElectionsNorth CarolinaFederal Courts
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  1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

    Do people have a first amendment right to lie to themselves?

    1. Ajsloss   2 years ago

      "It's not a lie if you believe it." -George... Washington

      1. RebekahBarton   2 years ago (edited)

        I am making a good salary from home $6580-$7065/week , which is amazing under a year ago I was jobless in a horrible economy. I thank God every day I was blessed with these instructions and now it’s my duty to pay it forward and share it with Everyone,
        🙂 AND GOOD LUCK. 🙂

        Here is I started.……......>> http://WWW.SALARYBEZ.COM

        1. Rob Misek   2 years ago

          Like WMD?

      2. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        Semi-seriously: that is the foundation of belief, i.e. accepting or judging something to be true in the absence (or even contradiction) of evidence.

        Did Santos' brain process his personal fables as true?

        1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

          Believing something in contradiction to the evidence is the definition of "delusion".

          1. JenniferSilva   2 years ago (edited)

            I get paid over 190$ per hour working from home with 2 kids at home. I never thought I’d be able to do it but my best friend earns over 10k a month doing this and she convinced me to try. The potential with this is endless. Heres what I’ve been doing..

            HERE====)> http://WWW.NETPAYFAST.COM

      3. Rob Misek   2 years ago

        Washington was a lying satanic Freemason.

        1. TheReEncogitationer   2 years ago

          Not the Kol Nidre boy you call all of us? Man, I don't know whether I should gloat or play catch-up!
          🙂

          Fuck Off, Nazi!

          1. Rob Misek   2 years ago (edited)

            You know who else was a lying waste of skin, satanic secret society member, Kol Nidre boy?

            Gloat. Hahaha

            1. TheReEncogitationer   2 years ago

              All right. Humor me.

              But no matter what the answer is, you can still:

              Fuck Off, Nazi!

              1. Rob Misek   2 years ago (edited)

                Criminalize lying.

                I have shared the truth about the global history of Jewish lies and the direct relationship between lying and Judaism. Nobody, especially yourself has ever refuted what I’ve said.

                Does exposing any lie make someone a Nazi or is it only when Jewish lies are exposed that they become fans of Hitler?

                Maybe you oppose the criminalization of lying because you’re a lying waste of skin, or maybe you’re concerned for the future of Judaism.

                In either case you’re a fool Kol Nidre boy and I’m laughing at you.

                Hahaha.

                1. Rob Misek   2 years ago

                  I recognize that lying is humanity’s single greatest problem. At the root of all others and only getting worse as communication has never been better.

                  That being said, more truthful communication is the simple and effective answer to that problem.

                  Anyone who wants to minimize lying is bound to conflict with Jews. As history demonstrates. The criminal behaviour of Jews is the symptom, not the cause.

                  The Jewish religion which has defined that group of people for thousands of years is based on lying. They claim ownership of Freemasonry, the global secret satanic lying pyramid scheme.

                  The holiest Jewish prayer on the holiest (gag) Jewish day is the Kol Nidre. It is clearly a plan to lie to other people. Stupid Jews claim that it’s about lying to god but omnipresent beings can’t be lied to. Duh.

                  This is the Kol Nidre text

                  “All vows, obligations, oaths, and anathemas [curses]which we may vow, or swear, or pledge, or whereby we may be bound, from this Day of Atonement until the next we do repent. May they be deemed absolved, forgiven, annulled, and void, and made of no effect: they shall not bind us nor have any power over us. The vows shall not be reckoned vows; the obligations shall not be obligations; nor the oaths be oaths.”

    2. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

      Misek would say you should be prosecuted.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        Missek wants to "prosecute" lots of people.

      2. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

        “It’s not a lie because I believe it.”

        Basically Misek's philosophy. And he'll continue to believe it despite all evidence to the contrary, but will insist on prosecuting those who don't believe him.

      3. Rob Misek   2 years ago

        Obviously you fuckwits have figured out that since you can’t refute what I say, you can fabricate lies that you can refute.

        On second thought that’s giving you credit for intelligence you don’t possess.

        1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

          You've been refuted here dozens of times and your psychotic lies have been refuted millions of times over the last seventy five years, you disgusting, lying fuck.

          1. Rob Misek   2 years ago

            Kol Nidre boy, you can’t link to anyone ever refuting anything that I’ve said.

            You’re a coward who runs from this challenge EVERY TIME I make it.

            You’re a demonstrated fool. These are the optics. I’m pleased.

            1. ObviouslyNotSpam   2 years ago

              Only because you reserve the right to decide when anything you said has been "refuted".

              It's a silly position for an adult.

              1. Rob Misek   2 years ago (edited)

                This is how I clearly and unambiguously ensure that what I say represents truth, reality.

                I value the inalienable human right to free speech.

                I value the supremacy of correctly applied logic and science in discerning and demonstrating truth aka reality.

                I value the application of both in open debate to conclude and demonstrate that truth can never be refuted while untruths can be.

                I commit that if what I say is ever refuted, I’ll never say it again.

                You fuckwits don’t do any of this. Your evidence, if you have any, doesn’t support your claims and that doesn’t even matter to you. You will never win an argument that way but you still think that’s unfair. It’s no way for adults to behave.

                I like to feed trolls truth and laugh as you choke on it. Hahaha.

                1. silomim416   2 years ago (edited)

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    3. TheReEncogitationer   2 years ago

      Do Politicians Have a First Amendment Right To Lie to You?

      Maybe, but we have an equal right under the 13th Amendment to not vote for them and a Natural Right to "assume the powers of the Earth" and "alter or abolish" their offices.

  2. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

    Doesn’t everyone just assume politicians lie?

    1. Moonrocks   2 years ago

      It's 2023. Nobody can discern truth from Dangerous and Harmful Misinformation without the help of the esteemed and noble Experts.

      1. ClintonVergara   2 years ago (edited)

        I am making $92 an hour working from home. I never imagined that it was honest to goodness yet my closest companion is earning $16,000 a month by working on a laptop, that was truly astounding for me, she prescribed for me to attempt it simply. Everybody must try this job now by just using
        this website................ http://www.jobsrevenue.com

    2. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

      The Cult of Fauci proves that isn't so.

    3. Super Scary   2 years ago

      Depends on who it is. Some of them are filthy liars that lie to do things liars love. Others don't lie, they just tell fibs and spin yarn; you know, folksy shit.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        Yup. And the good guys are sometimes forced to lie in order to defeat the deplorables.

    4. Jerry B.   2 years ago

      That’s always my default.

    5. VendicarD   2 years ago

      I have never encountered a Republican or a Libertarian who wasn't a congenital and perpetual liar.

      Never.

      1. DesigNate   2 years ago

        Derp da derp da tiddly terp.

      2. Chumby   2 years ago

        What about Mormons?

      3. TheReEncogitationer   2 years ago

        Maybe you'd make a good little enforcer minion for Herr Misek. Do you rock Sam Brown belts and Jackboots well?

  3. Ajsloss   2 years ago

    https://reason.com/2022/11/25/mystified-by-mastodon-were-here-to-help/

    1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago (edited)

      ENB has actually been using Mastodon lately.

      1. JesseAz   2 years ago

        Does your fake wife know about your obsession with ENB?

        1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

          No sandwiches for Mike either way.

      2. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

        Cite?

      3. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

        Do you follow her around religiously there like you do on Twitter?

  4. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

    A former employee of the St. Louis Children's Hospital's Transgender Center writes about the shaky standards for treatment she witnessed there.

    According to our resident idiots, it’s not happening.

    1. Ajsloss   2 years ago

      Well, now it is. But let me tell you why that's a good thing...

    2. Minadin   2 years ago

      She wasn't writing about 'shaky standards of treatment'. She was writing about criminal lies and harm done to underage patients.

      AND

      She filed a whistleblower report with the Missouri AG.

      1. JesseAz   2 years ago

        Her statements are pretty damn chilling. Kids nor parents told the side effects of drugs they are given. Girls asking for their breasts back 3 months after a mastectomy. 1 short appointment with predetermined doctors to transition. Preying on kids with stories of how they grew up in bad homes.

        1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

          So everything chemjeff and White Mike told us wasn't happening.

          You can't get more wrong than those guys. I think it's safe to believe it's a universal law that whatever they say or claim, the opposite is always true.
          I should ask them to start picking horses and lottery numbers that they're positive won't be winners.

          1. Overt   2 years ago

            And what is hilarious is that ENB can simultaneously downplay this egregious malpractice of medical ethics as "shaky standards" while feigning outrage that MO would prohibit agents of the state in public schools from feeding into this mutilation pipeline.

            1. Gaear Grimsrud   2 years ago

              Good point. But I'm still stunned that she linked to article. Thankfully the author is a queer woman married to a transman. Otherwise it would just be another right wing conspiracy theory.

          2. DesigNate   2 years ago

            They didn’t mention bottom surgery so I’m still right - White Mike

            1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

              That's pretty much what he claimed to me a week or two ago and then decided to mute me when I called him out for it.

      2. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

        Yeah, that bullet line is a tellingly opaque description of what she said happened. She literally said that it was like leaving a cult. Once again, the World's Best Newspaper provides the proper context:

        The whistleblower told The Free Press that working at the center, which medically transitioned 600 children within two years, was: 'Like I was in a cult, and I had to de-program my way out of it.'
        Reed alleged, in a sworn affidavit, that the hospital openly lied about not performing sex-transitioning surgeries on minors - claiming one doctor, Dr. Allison Snyder-Warwick, performed one at the hospital in the last few years....
        In her affidavit, Reed said in one instance a girl was prescribed cross-sex hormones because she did not want to become pregnant.
        'There was no need for this girl to be prescribed cross-sex hormones. What she needed was basic sex education and maybe contraception,' she said, adding that a basic assessment of her case would have revealed that.
        'But because the doctors automatically prescribe cross-sex hormones or puberty blockers for children meeting the bare minimum criteria, this girl was unnecessarily placed on drugs that cause irreversible change to the body.'
        She alleged that in another instance, a patient asked for their breasts to be removed and was given the surgery at St. Louis Children's Hospital - but just weeks later, the woman asked for them to be 'put back on.'...
        Reed alleged the hospital's public claims that it did not perform gender transition surgeries on minors was a lie.
        'The Center regularly refers minors for gender transition surgery,' she said. 'The Center routinely gives out the names and contact information of surgeons to those under the age of 18.'

        'At least one gender transition surgery was performed by Dr. Allison Snyder-Warwick at St. Louis Children’s Hospital in the last few years,' Reed alleged.
        In another shocking claim, Reed alleged that one 17-year-old patient was brought into the clinic by a man - who he was not related to. The teenager was living with the man.
        The teenager started hormones 'as soon as they turned 18.' But the patient's mental health very quickly deteriorated - and Reed claims it was soon revealed the man who initially bought the child to the clinic was sexually and physically abusing him.
        Despite learning of the alleged abuse of power, the center did not stop the gender transition treatment, the affidavit claims.

        What's particularly scary is that hospitals all over the country are doing this crap, because the doctors have flat-out admitted it in conferences, and the medical schools are loaded with wokel-yokel professors. But it's only in red states that anyone might uffer the consequences for it. These hospitals need to get a probe up their ass, and the neo-Mengeles practicing it have their licenses revoked and thrown into jail.

        1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

          How dare you hold our betters to the same standards they impose on us!

      3. Minadin   2 years ago

        https://notthebee.com/article/missouri-ag-launches-investigation-into-st-louis-gender-clinic-after-whistleblower-report-of-harm-to-hundreds-of-children-each-year

      4. mad.casual   2 years ago

        She wasn’t writing about ‘shaky standards of treatment’. She was writing about criminal lies and harm done to underage patients.

        Yeah. "Shaky standards of treatment" the way bloodletting and tossing virgins into volcanoes are "shaky standards of treatment".

    3. JimboJr   2 years ago

      Remember that Boston Children's video where they specifically talk about "Gender Confirming Hysterectomies" on kids and openly brag about it, that had to be taken down because apparently they got a little too comfortable being open and honest about child mutilation?

      1. Minadin   2 years ago

        AOC says that LibsofTikTok made that all up:

        https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1623360525680709645

        1. JimboJr   2 years ago

          How was this not rebutted at all? The video is out there for everyone to see.

          1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

            The Boston Children’s Hospital video doesn’t contain any statements that confirm accusations about doing genital altering surgery on people under the age of 18.

            It is creepily cheerful about hysterectomies.

            1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

              Bullshit, Mike. You've been told before that they altered the page after they got caught.

            2. JimboJr   2 years ago

              why do you think a children's hospital is the one pushing it so hard?

              The procedure would be a very standard hysterectomy, and would be bread and butter for a standard non-specialty trained OBGYN.

              Why isnt ground zero for this stuff a standard OBGYN adult practice? Why does the very strong focus for this stuff keep coming from children's hospitals?

              Literally any adult hospital with completely bog standard OBGYN's can do these procedures...why is it never coming from a hospital that focuses its care on mostly adults? Why is it always specialty children's hospitals?

              Weird huh?

              1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago (edited)

                Children’s Hospitals, plural? This entire discussion has been about one.

                And you are lecturing me about matters I don’t even disagree with you about. I think it’s weird, too.

                All I am trying to do is counter culture warriors tendency to go beyond the factual and exaggerate their team’s claims in an effort to own the other team.

                1. Minadin   2 years ago

                  1. Boston
                  2. St. Louis
                  3. Tavistock
                  4. Many Others

                  You should read that whole article by Jamie Reed.

                  "In the past 15 years, according to Reuters, the U.S. has gone from having no pediatric gender clinics to more than 100. A thorough analysis should be undertaken to find out what has been done to their patients and why—and what the long-term consequences are." (emphasis mine)

                  1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

                    How come nobody can stick to the topic being discussed.

                    1. Minadin   2 years ago

                      'This entire discussion' started with the LINKED ARTICLE in the Reason Roundup talking about what has been going on at St. Louis Children's Hospital.

                      YOU are talking about one hospital in particular, and it's a different one. In Boston.

                      THEN, you proclaim that the discussion is about ONE place. Which one? There are multiple. You don't get to set the limits of the discussion. It's completely dishonest.

                    2. Mike Laursen   2 years ago (edited)

                      Go back and look at the top of this thread. JimboJr brought up the video from Boston Children’s Hospital.

                      I didn’t bring it up. All I did was watch it and then point out it never mentions “kids” or children, as JimboJr claimed it does.

                    3. Minadin   2 years ago

                      Which ONE HOSPITAL are you talking about, then?

                      "Children’s Hospitals, plural? This entire discussion has been about one."

                      Stop lying. If you want to be on the side of permanently disfiguring minors, admit it.

                    4. silomim416   2 years ago (edited)

                      My last month's online earning was $17930 just by doing an easy job obout 3 months ago and  in my first month i have made $12k+ easily without any special online experience. Easiest home based online job to earn extra dollars every month just by doing work for maximum 2 to 3 hrs a day. I have joined this job aEverybody on this earth can get this job today and start making cash online by just follow details on this website........

                      See this article for more information————————>>>OPEN>> OPEN>> http://WWW.DAILYPRO7.COM

                    5. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

                      Oh, I see the confusion. JumboJr mislabeled the video as being from Boston Children’s Hospital, but it is actually from National Children’s Hospital. So, this thread is actually about National not Boston.

                      Anyway, I’m not for disfiguring minors (or adults). I feel much the same as you, which you would know if you would get off your high horse and have an actual calm conversation.

                      What I am against is the culture war, and not sticking to facts, and culture warriors pretending to care about children when all they really care about is owning the other team.

                    6. Minadin   2 years ago

                      You're a lying Liar. It's shown in this thread; it's shown in previous threads. It's amazing that you somehow think we can't put together the comments you made yesterday or last week or IN THIS THREAD together. We are not as stupid as you or your masters.

                      Mike is covering for people who are doing PERMANENT DAMAGE to kids.

                    7. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

                      OK, please point to where I said that disfiguring minors (or adults) is a good thing.

                      For the record, I think it's a really bad idea for anyone to get surgery to confirm their gender dysphoria. Or for a doctor to perform such surgery. Is that clear enough?

                    8. Minadin   2 years ago

                      It's shown in this thread, and it's shown in previous threads. You are counting on people having the memories of goldfish.

                      You might want to un-mute InsaneTrollLogic so you can see just how badly you have been exposed on this. In this very thread.

        2. JesseAz   2 years ago

          Mike makes the same claims since the hospital changed their websites and Google doesn't show past evidence in their search.

          1. Overt   2 years ago

            Right- these guys get away with it using smoke and mirrors and hand waves and misdirection.

            Let's say you complain that children are undergoing permanent procedures including hormone treatment, mastectomies and genital gender reassignment. Mike jumps in with statements like " doctors in the US won’t do genital reassignment surgery on anyone under 18."

            Note that he has already begun his misdirection- he is portraying a refutation of your entire argument, but has limited his argument to a very specific procedure- genital reassignment. If he was really honest, he would say something like "While there are permanent changes to minors being done, genitals are not being reassigned." But he doesn't do that because then he has to explain why genitals are important, but other mutilating and permanent changes are not a big deal.

            But as we see, even THAT argument is wrong. Genital surgery IS being done on minors. And again, he tries to misdirect. He insists that it is against "US Guidelines" and for proof shows what Aetna will pay for (hint, that isn't a US guideline). This is all part of the gaslighting that they will do.

            https://reason.com/2022/10/17/arkansas-ban-on-gender-transition-treatments-for-minors-hits-federal-court/?comments=true#comment-9750892

            The real question is *why*? Why would he do this water-carrying for the left? Others say because he is a lefty foot-soldier who actually wants confused children ushered into this queered lifestyle.

            I disagree.

            I think it is far more petty than that. I think Mike is so blinded by culture wars that he would rather lie about what the left is doing than accept that people on the Right might have a point. I could understand if he were some foot-soldier. But he isn't. He actually IS troubled by these actions, but stopping it means admitting the right is correct. So rather than give a "win" to team Red, Mike will deny that hundred or thousands of vulnerable children are being ground up in a medical system hijacked by queer ideology. Those kids are abstract prices to pay for him scoring rhetorical points over random strangers on the internet.

            And I don't think I have to point out how much, much worse that is than being a lefty foot soldier.

        3. Mike Laursen   2 years ago (edited)

          So, the article here…

          https://thepostmillennial.com/boston-childrens-hospital-gleefully-encourages-surgical-pharmaceutical-gender-transition-for-teens/

          … says, “Patients only 17 years old can obtain a vaginoplasty…”. Can anyone point to where they are getting that information from? The Boston Children’s Hospital website itself says, in bold letters: “We only perform gender-affirming hysterectomies on patients who are age 18 or older.”

          The paragraph right before “Patients only 17 years old can obtain a vaginoplasty…” says that one must be 18 to have penis-altering surgery.

          Is the email where Dr. Ganor said he is “slightly flexible” available to read anywhere? Is there any follow-up on precisely what he meant?

          1. Minadin   2 years ago

            "Then I came across comments from Dr. Rachel Levine, a transgender woman who is a high official at the federal Department of Health and Human Services. The article read: "Levine, the U.S. assistant secretary for health, said that clinics are proceeding carefully and that no American children are receiving drugs or hormones for gender dysphoria who shouldn't."

            I felt stunned and sickened. It wasn't true. And I know that from deep first-hand experience."

            https://www.thefp.com/p/i-thought-i-was-saving-trans-kids

            1. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

              Captain Sea Lion has to split hairs now that his narrative just got blown up.

              1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

                Mike loves to split hairs.

                Mike Laursen 2 weeks ago (edited)

                Again, no doctor in the US will cut the dick off a boy. It’s a non-issue and it is disingenuous to keep implying that someone under 18 can get their dick cut off.

                And no doctor in the US will do a hysterectomy on someone under 18 for gender affirming purposes, either.

                https://reason.com/2023/01/30/the-most-popular-police-reforms-cant-stop-the-next-tyre-nichols-from-being-killed-heres-what-might/?comments=true#comment-9902640

              2. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

                https://reason.com/2023/01/30/the-most-popular-police-reforms-cant-stop-the-next-tyre-nichols-from-being-killed-heres-what-might/?comments=true#comment-9903019

                Mike Laursen 2 weeks ago (edited)

                “At 15, she underwent a double mastectomy.”

                Where did I say anything about mastectomies?

                That’s the second comment someone has made in today’s commentariat where the person didn’t read or didn’t comprehend what I plainly wrote.

                Diane/Paul: Progressive parents are getting their effeminate sons’ willies cut off willy nilly!!
                Me: Actually, no US doctor will do that operation!!
                ITL: How many times do we have to tell you there was this girl that got a double mastectomy!

            2. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

              Why did you reply with an article that didn’t address my very specific questions?

              1. Minadin   2 years ago

                So, if it's not a very specific type of genital mutilation, but rather a different sort of genital mutilation, it does not count?

                Or are we expected to track down some specific quote from one individual doctor at one clinic in particular, otherwise everything related that is happening is disproven?

                1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

                  Who said anything about anything related being disproven? You’re assuming a whole agenda or subtext to my question that isn’t there.

                  1. Overt   2 years ago

                    The real question is *why*? Why would Mike do this water-carrying for the left? Others say because he is a lefty foot-soldier who actually wants confused children ushered into this queered lifestyle.

                    I disagree.

                    I think it is far more petty than that. I think Mike is so blinded by culture wars that he would rather lie and obfuscate about what the left is doing than accept that people on the Right might have a point. I could understand if he were some foot-soldier. But he isn’t.

                    He actually IS troubled by these actions, but stopping it means admitting the Right is correct. So rather than give a “win” to team Red, Mike will deny that hundreds or thousands of vulnerable children are being ground up in a medical system hijacked by queer ideology. Those kids are abstract prices to pay for him scoring rhetorical points over random strangers on the internet.

                    And I don’t think I have to point out how much, much worse that is than being a lefty foot soldier.

            3. Gaear Grimsrud   2 years ago

              Dr. Rachel Levine. Is that the dude that steals women's luggage so he can wear their panties while he leads a bunch of other dudes around on leashes or is he the dude that puts on a soldier costume with high gloss lipstick? All I know is I'm just glad the adults are back in the room. Thanks Reason!

              1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

                No, that's another member of the Biden Administration, involved in the nuclear section.

          2. JimboJr   2 years ago

            1) They got caught, and very quickly had to take down stuff on their website, take down the video, and state that "we only do it on patients who are 18 and older"

            ...which is funny because...

            2) Its a children's hospital. 18 year olds dont usually go to a children's hospital. In fact, even most teens unless they have a very specialized surgical need/procedure dont go to a children's hospital. Most of these kids go to standard hospitals. Certainly once you are 18 you wouldn't go to a children's hospital unless you were getting something done that is very specific that often happens at a children's hospital (pectus excavatum surgeries for example, as they are usually done younger).

            So it really doesn't track that they were proudly advertising, as Boston Children's hospital, a specialized hospital that spends the majority of their time and resources taking care of *specialized conditions on younger children*, that they proudly do gender affirming hysterectomies...Oh but btw its totes only on ADULTS, who we dont normally care for (relative to how many children we care for).

            Sorry man, this just doesn't track. If you cant smell that horseshit a mile away, its because you are plugging your nose

            1. JimboJr   2 years ago

              Also there was audio leaked of someone calling into a different hospital asking about hysterectomies and the person confirming that yes that is something they can have the patient seen for. They specifically state on the call that its for a child/teen.

              You are in the very uncomfortable position of trying to defend the indefensible and your "its not happening" argument is being blown up in real time

              1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

                Have a link to the leaked audio?

                1. JimboJr   2 years ago

                  down below a couple

                  1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

                    Where? I’m searching this page and can’t find any link.

                    1. Minadin   2 years ago

                      https://www.libsoftiktok.com/p/audio-childrens-hospital-admits-to?sd=pf&triedSigningIn=true

                    2. Mike Laursen   2 years ago (edited)

                      Thank you, Minadin. I’ve had this debate about whether genital-altering surgeries are available to people under 18 at least a half dozen times now, and you are the first person who has provided any evidence beyond someone’s say-so.

                      So, yes, I’m acknowledging you have presented evidence that the Children’s National Hospital may have performed gender-affirming hysterectomies on children under 18 in the recent past.

                      Let’s evaluate the quality of the evidence:
                      – The very first thing Chaya Raichik says is that it is very difficult to find a hospital that will do a gender-affirming hysterectomy on a child under 18. She repeats this statement, which goes against everything she is trying to prove with the phone call, two or three times.
                      – She ambushes a couple of recepetionists, one of whom says that she doesn’t know details.
                      - An Internet search shows that Children's National Hospital responded soon after the Libs of Tik Tok post, saying the information given over the phone was not correct.
                      – Was there any follow-up? Did Raichik schedule an appointment? Did she talk to a surgeon or contact anyone in the hospital administration? Did she find any people who had actually had the surgery?

                    3. Minadin   2 years ago

                      It was linked 3 other times in this thread alone.

                      It's difficult to find things you're not looking for.

              2. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

                I’m not defending anything. I’m asking for some substantiation of your claims.

            2. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

              “They got caught, and very quickly had to take down stuff on their website”

              Is there any evidence of that? Other than someone’s say-so? Is it on the wayback machine? Did anyone get a screenshot?

            3. Mike Laursen   2 years ago (edited)

              I know it is named “Children’s Hospital” but they obviously, by statements on their own website, do work with 18 year olds.

              1. rbike   2 years ago

                https://www.libsoftiktok.com/p/audio-childrens-hospital-admits-to?sd=pf&triedSigningIn=true
                This is an example of a cite. Mike. You do not seem to understand this. But you being a dumbass is a given.

                1. Chumby   2 years ago

                  In a few days, Dee will pretend this exchange did not occur and sea lion some more. Methinks the point is to keep people interested and not actually attempt to win an argument.

                  1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

                    Wrong. I keep asking simple questions and people keep responding with irrelevant answers to other questions I didn’t ask.

      2. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

        Yep, the ones Mike Laursen claims never happened.

    4. NealAppeal   2 years ago

      Also stating her preferences (prog, queer, trans relationship) to hopefully deflect the woke mob hate that will come for her regardless. Good luck lady! Also, how is she queer if her partner is a man now?

    5. VendicarD   2 years ago

      I have never encountered a Republican or a Libertarian who wasn't a congenital and perpetual liar.

      Never.

      1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

        How to say you're a Democrat without actually coming out and saying you're a Democrat.

        1. Chumby   2 years ago

          I think that is a KAR sock.

      2. markm23   2 years ago (edited)

        He’s either a Democrat or a leftist too extreme for even the current Democratic party, and this is projection.

        Because that’s what leftists do.

  5. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

    "In December, the political director for Prime Minister Viktor Orbán tweeted, "women who become mothers before turning 30 will be exempt from paying personal income tax!" That's on top of a raft of other initiatives meant to boost the number of Hungarian babies, including allowing mothers of four or more children to be permanently exempt from paying taxes, a mortgage repayment plan for families with two or more children, a subsidy program for larger families buying seven-passenger cars and allowing grandparents to be eligible for payment for caring for their grandchildren."

    A hand maid tale horror come to life. What about those cool outfits?

    1. Unable2Reason   2 years ago

      Banning condoms and abortions might work. Then you could encourage prostitution in case it's just simply a case of lack of promiscuity.

  6. damikesc   2 years ago

    "Critics of the bill say it would prohibit LGBTQ teachers from discussing their spouses because it could indicate their sexual orientation. They say it could also ban books from being taught if they include LGBTQ characters or topics, and forbid discussion of gender identity and sexual orientation in health classes."

    Perhaps if the critics did not applaud and justify lying to parents for years, this would not be as necessary.

    Do not get why teachers find it so damned necessary to discuss sex with young kids so much. Seems exceptionally weird.

    1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

      I never knew anything about my teachers personal lives.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        My wife taught second grade for years. We she encountered students in public, like at the supermarket, they were shocked, since they assumed she lived at the school and never left. I doubt those kids thought about her gender and marriage status. At least without serious prompting.

    2. Ajsloss   2 years ago

      I wish my geometry teacher would have had that desire. It would have been exceptionally awesome.

    3. JesseAz   2 years ago

      It would ban Snow White!!!! - Jeff

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        Snow White? Is that code for some sex thing?

        1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

          Seven dudes!

          1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

            Are we allowed to say "dwarf"?

            1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

              Are they, um, proportional?

        2. JesseAz   2 years ago

          Snow white is white mail patriarchy advocating for date rape as being true love. It grooms kids to rape passed out women. -Jeff.

          1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

            In Snow White's defense, she was poisoned. She didn't get blotto on Hairy Buffalo at a frat party.

            1. JesseAz   2 years ago

              Look at you advocate for date rape drugs.

              1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

                As a libertarian, I support the right of young women to voluntarily imbibe date rape drugs.

                1. VendicarD   2 years ago

                  It's not rape if the little girl agrees.

                  From the Libertarian party platform...

                  Children always have the right to establish their maturity by assuming administration and protection of their own rights, ending dependency upon their parents or other guardians, and assuming all responsibilities of adulthood.

                  A child is a human being and, as such, deserves to be treated justly. We oppose laws infringing on children's rights to work or learn, such as child labor laws and compulsory education laws. We also oppose the use of curfews based on age.

                  We call for an end to the practice in many states of jailing children not accused of any crime. We call for repeal of all "children's codes" or statutes which abridge due process protections for young people.

                  1. DesigNate   2 years ago

                    None of that says rape is okay you colossal fucking moron.

                    1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

                      It does seem to say that statutory rape laws violate children's rights.

                  2. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

                    LOL, found another hicklib pederast.

                    1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

                      What is it with them and pederasty? That's VendicarD, Shrike (and all his socks), Jeffy, and Tony. I know I'm forgetting some of them.

                  3. JimboJr   2 years ago

                    ^ literally one of the big reasons people dont like libertarians.

                    For every 100 sane curmudgeons that just want the govt to be small, non-invasive, and effective (I know, I LOLd while typing it), there is 1 extremely loud unkempt retard in a wizard hat thats saying "age of consent laws violate childrens freedom!" and then people just associate libertarian with extreme weirdos that could never possibly govern.

                2. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

                  Bizarrely, I can see ENB advocating for it.

            2. Gaear Grimsrud   2 years ago

              We all know the Kavanaugh story.

      2. JimboJr   2 years ago

        did anyone respond with "who the fuck cares, kids dont need to be watching cartoons in school?"

    4. rev-arthur-l-kuckland   2 years ago

      Is ENB worried about the fact that Florida doest have a "don't say gay" bill or law?

    5. Derp-o-Matic 6000   2 years ago

      Critics of the bill say it would prohibit LGBTQ teachers from discussing their spouses because it could indicate their sexual orientation. They say it could also ban books from being taught if they include LGBTQ characters or topics, and forbid discussion of gender identity and sexual orientation in health classes.

      I'm sure critics say that because, like you, most of the people reporting on this have a track record of being lying partisan hacks with an agenda. What would the bill actually do?

    6. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

      it would prohibit LGBTQ teachers from discussing their spouses

      Why should they be doing that? It's unprofessional for teachers to be talking about their personal lives in class. I can't tell you which of my grade school teachers were married or had children. The subject never came up, and kids then knew it was rude to ask adults personal questions.

      with a student unless such person is a licensed mental health provider

      With "a" student? That appears to me to ban one-on-one conversations, not presentations to a class. I don't have a problem with that.

      The only time I remember sexual orientation being mentioned by a teacher was in the "sex ed" section of 9th grade Health class. The Coach opined that body building was kind of queer. We all giggled and moved on. That was it. I don't believe any of us suffered for the lack of instruction about it.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        Dude, get woke. Politics aside, life is now a non-stop public emotional performance. Why else be a teacher if you can't unload on your 6 year old students?

        1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

          I suspect many teachers are motivated to do that because they don't have any adult friends.

          1. Muzzled Woodchipper   2 years ago

            It’s hard to keep friends when you’re fucking delusional and insist everyone affirm that delusion, then claim they’re bigots if they don’t want to talk about how excited you are about your ketchup packet period.

    7. mad.casual   2 years ago (edited)

      Seems exceptionally weird.

      Especially both together. "We totally aren’t sexualizing children but, if we were, it would be our right to do so without informing their parents, taxpayers, the public, various politicians in charge of public education, or anyone really."

    8. DesigNate   2 years ago

      The only time I knew anything personal about my teachers was when they got pregnant and couldn’t hide the bump anymore.

  7. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

    At least nine states are trying to restrict or criminalize drag shows.

    Probably the same ones that won’t let you take your kids to titty bars.

    1. Derp-o-Matic 6000   2 years ago

      Actual fascism!!!11!!1!!!

    2. Ronbback   2 years ago

      the crazy thing is most Drag queen promoter Karens also think hooters should be shut down

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        Fake tits >> real tits.

        Correction:
        Glue-on fake tits >> real tits >> fake tits.

        And don't ask me where to put cut-off tits.

        1. Derp-o-Matic 6000   2 years ago

          In the biological waste bin?

      2. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

        How could you possibly know that.

    3. damikesc   2 years ago

      I still do not respect Reason for this myth that drag shows are trying to be criminalized.

      Drag shows with adults are, literally, a nothingburger. Nobody gives two shits.

      It's when they insert children that problems occur.

      1. mad.casual   2 years ago (edited)

        If their performance on “book banning” is any indication, all 9 states are trying to pass laws that say you can’t serve alcohol and have drag shows within 100 ft. of an elementary school and Reason considers that to be a ban.

        1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

          What about guns?

          1. ObviouslyNotSpam   2 years ago

            Full circle.

      2. Muzzled Woodchipper   2 years ago

        This is the part that’s left out.

        Drag shows have been a thing for a long time. No one outside of fundies said anything until there were people touting kids shoving dollar bills into g-strings.

  8. Minadin   2 years ago

    Missouri does not have a 'Don't Say Gay' bill.

    Fraud.

    1. Moonrocks   2 years ago

      Don't Say Gay

      How's Paul Pelosi doing?

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        Paul's problem was more like "don't say no".

    2. Social Justice is neither   2 years ago

      ENB is lucky she has a right to lie to people and call it journalism.

    3. Jerryskids   2 years ago

      Alright, we'll call it the 'Hitler Rises From The Grave' bill. Why do Republicans worry about pedophiles in the school system so much?

      1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

        Because they seem to be loaded with them?

        1. Moonrocks   2 years ago

          Sutton's law at work.

      2. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

        Because the schools are places where government agents are put in positions of authority over large numbers of children?

      3. damikesc   2 years ago

        Why would anybody not be highly concerned about kiddie diddlers hanging out with...well, buildings full of kids?

  9. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

    Farmers versus urban elites.

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/02/10/the-farmers-fighting-back-against-the-irrational-elites/

    We need to talk about the irrationalism of the global elites’ hostility to farming. Last year, the UN estimated that 180million people are facing ‘food crisis’ right now, and yet various governments around the world are making it harder for farmers to grow food. What’s more, banning an insecticide like neonicotinoids in yet another Western country – France – does not mean the world will become a ‘cleaner’ place.

    1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

      Proper people get food from restaurants, farmers dig theirs from the dirt.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        Restaurants? Try Uber-eats and Blue Apron.

        1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

          That’s working class.

          1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

            Yes.
            Why send for some gross Uber when you can just send your PA instead.

    2. Idaho Bob   2 years ago (edited)

      This is an intentional starvation tactic aimed to reduce the population.

      Change my mind.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        Never underestimate the power of stupidity.

        1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago (edited)

          It’s both.

          Maliciousness and stupidity go hand in hand for the West’s gentry class.

  10. Rich   2 years ago

    Hungary's plan to exempt some mothers from income tax

    discriminates against non-uterus people!

    1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      Are you some kind of biologist?

  11. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

    He's not talking to you or us or anyone.

    https://nypost.com/2023/02/09/the-silence-on-the-classified-documents-scandal-is-deafening-joe-biden/

    At one time, Biden promised to have the most transparent administration in history. I could make the argument he has the least transparent administration in history.

    When it mattered most, the White House, National Archives and Justice Department failed to promptly inform Congress and the American people.

    As chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Accountability, I have a responsibility to investigate this mishandling of highly sensitive information and what appears to be a two-tier system of justice.

    1. Rich   2 years ago

      He’s not talking to you or us or anyone.

      Indeed.

    2. JesseAz   2 years ago

      He had some vintage 1974 top grade documents in his collection.

    3. rev-arthur-l-kuckland   2 years ago (edited)

      I thought he said the Mont trans promoting administration

  12. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

    They want you to freeze and starve.

    https://nypost.com/2023/02/09/get-ready-for-the-lights-and-heat-to-go-out/

    Québec last week avoided a blackout, despite the frigid Arctic cold snap, by importing electricity from New York. But it may be out of luck next time, along with the Empire State itself, thanks to the green rush to kill reliable sources of power.

    1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      Like in all good religions, you must suffer before redemption (and death).

  13. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   2 years ago

    And @RepNancyMace went full goblin mode.

    I posted this yesterday and several Peanuts took offense that Congresswoman Mace aimed her humor at Republicans.

    1. Sandra (formerly OBL)   2 years ago

      Given that you still won't shut up about Walker (who lost) because of your perfectly consistent and totally nonpartisan opposition to people with defective brains serving in the US Senate, please tell us how Hoodie McStrokebrain is doing.

      1. Minadin   2 years ago

        Fetterman was rushed to the hospital earlier this week, so, situation normal:

        https://twitter.com/igorbobic/status/1623544056847409152

        1. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   2 years ago

          Who cares?

          The Governor can replace him easily.

          1. Sandra (formerly OBL)   2 years ago

            You bring up Walker at least once a week even though he lost.

            You do this, you claim, because the idea of a US Senator with brain damage is so offensive to you.

            Yet an obviously unfit white Democrat only inspires "Who cares?"

            Do you not see how this destroys your credibility? Like, almost as thoroughly as you destroyed it gaslighting us all year about this economy?

            1. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   2 years ago

              Does that bother you?

              Seriously, you know as well as I do we get no onerous spending programs when in a state of gridlock.

              Gridlock = GOP House and Dem Senate/POTUS.

              1. Sevo   2 years ago

                turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
                If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
                turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

              2. Sandra (formerly OBL)   2 years ago

                Spending is not the issue here. I refuse to believe you're so stupid you can't see that.

                The issue is your blatant partisan hypocrisy in still being obsessed with a black Republican brain damaged unsuccessful candidate, when a white Democrat brain damaged sitting US Senator doesn't bother you at all.

                If somebody hacked your account and tried to make you look absolutely ridiculous they couldn't have scripted anything better than this.

                #ZeroSelfAwareness

                1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago (edited)

                  I refuse to believe you’re so stupid you can’t see that.

                  He’s not, but he posts it anyways knowing it’s not true.

                  It’s too inept to be genuine trolling, but he won’t deviate from certain narratives he posts repeatedly despite having had them evidentiarily disproven here many times.

                  That’s why I believe he’s a fifty-center posting on behalf of one of Open Society’s media awareness groups. Like Media Matters, Open Society funds several nonprofits that work comments sections in everything from Imgur and 9gag, to newspaper and magazine comments. He might not be actually getting paid, it could be voluntary, but he is probably posting at least his initial posts on their behalf.

                  1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago (edited)

                    Rule #1: Turd lies.

                    /Someday I should post a list of unwritten rules I’ve noticed in the comment section over the years I've lurked here.

              3. JesseAz   2 years ago

                Yet you advocated for dem control.

      2. Derp-o-Matic 6000   2 years ago

        The pedo has no problem with Fetterman because Fetterman is white.

        1. Sandra (formerly OBL)   2 years ago

          Fetterman is a white Democrat. The partisan aspect is crucial.

          1. JesseAz   2 years ago

            To be fair shrike complained about Jesse Jackson and Sharpton yesterday. So think in order of biases it is race then political.

    2. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

      Probably because Congress critters should leave comedy to the professionals.

      1. JesseAz   2 years ago

        He really is the biggest racist here.

        1. Minadin   2 years ago

          Herr Misek hardest hit.

  14. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

    Trying to hide something.

    https://nypost.com/2023/02/09/biden-sounds-like-hes-hiding-something-on-classified-docs/

    After weeks of insisting that he doesn’t know what’s in the cache after cache of classified documents squirreled away at his think-tank office and private home, and his lawyers have told him not to ask, he suddenly said to PBS they’re just “stray papers” from 1974.

  15. Sandra (formerly OBL)   2 years ago

    Florida's "Don't Say Gay" bill

    Wow. Can't believe DeSantis literally made it illegal to say "gay" anywhere in the state of Florida.

    1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

      But “homo” is ok.

      1. Rich   2 years ago

        But only when appended by "sassa".

      2. A Thinking Mind   2 years ago

        No homo.

    2. Spiritus Mundi   2 years ago

      Flintstones theme song hardest hit.

    3. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   2 years ago

      Florida school district pulls children's book about Roberto Clemente off shelves

      https://triblive.com/sports/pirates/florida-school-district-pulls-childrens-book-about-roberto-clemente-off-shelve/

      Luckily, some schools are pulling children's books about dark-skinned baseball heroes off the shelves.

      #conservativesbanningbooks

      1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

        Seems like something you would be happy about.

      2. JesseAz   2 years ago

        Yes. We know democrats are retarded and performative. We deal with you daily after all.

      3. Minadin   2 years ago

        Is that the same district that pulled basically EVERY book off the shelves at the behest of the teacher's union?

        https://notthebee.com/article/to-spite-desantis-some-florida-schools-are-taking-all-the-books-off-the-shelves-of-libraries-and-classrooms

        Damn those Republican-led public sector unions.

        1. DesigNate   2 years ago

          Hahahahaha, goddamn I love when he gets owned like that.

        2. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

          Yes, I do believe it is. Damn, Shrike is dumb.

      4. Derp-o-Matic 6000   2 years ago

        The pedo is salty that he can't get child porn books in elementary school libraries, so he's doubling down on racism.

        Goddamn, you're as stupid as you are evil

      5. damikesc   2 years ago

        Yes, SPB2 (the original was banned for kiddie porn, lest we forget) is on board with school districts using kids as pawns in their battles.

      6. Sevo   2 years ago

        turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
        If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
        turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

      7. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

        Learn to read your links, Turd.

        Duval County Public Schools, one of the nation’s largest districts with more than 120,000 students, could not immediately answer questions about the review of the Clemente book.

        Seems to me that the school district went way overboard in its interpretation and certain Wokeholes there are behind it.

        1. JesseAz   2 years ago

          Same thinked happened when USSC overturned Roe. Doctors started claiming they could not treat miscarriages and the hospital administration had to tell them to stop that shit.

        2. damikesc   2 years ago

          Dislike removing local control...but if the district is going to pull this shit, they might need to have their control over their schools revoked.

      8. Chumby   2 years ago

        Shrike Likes Tikes

        1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

          SPB2 = Shrike Porks Boys 2.

    4. Moonrocks   2 years ago

      Don't Say Gay

      So Gays Against Groomers are back, or are they still banned from polite society?

  16. Rich   2 years ago

    Broad language doesn't hold up in Arkansas

    I see what you did there. 😉

    Other state proposals have language that defines a drag performer as one who "exhibits a gender identity that is different than the performer's gender assigned at birth." That definition's broadness leaves theater shows or even female comedians dressed in pants at risk of violating these laws

    Hillary hardest hit.

    1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

      female comedians dressed in pants aren’t funny anyways.

    2. JesseAz   2 years ago

      Remember how Reason attacked all those ridiculous slippery slope arguments during the gay marriage ruling? Now they embrace every form of that argumentation.

    3. Moonrocks   2 years ago

      That definition’s broadness leaves theater shows or even female comedians dressed in pants at risk of violating these laws

      Because it's a female identifying as a comedian, right?

    4. Zeb   2 years ago

      It's funny how now clothes are somehow "gender identity". If I put on a skirt, I'm not exhibiting a different gender identity, I'm just wearing a skirt. Women wearing pants as an example is even more bizarre. The gender weirdos almost have the most conservative idea about gender. You can't just be a person who expresses themselves differently, no you must be some weird mixed gender.

      1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

        The gender weirdos almost have the most conservative idea about gender

        Absolutely. Genderism is sexism itself.

        1. damikesc   2 years ago

          Puritans seemed to be more understanding of this than wokesters.

  17. Nardz   2 years ago

    "JuSt rUn bEtTeR cAndIdAtEs"

    https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1624045235180298243?t=PSn3BwZ5VYm9_QjBDcsSrg&s=19

    BREAKING: John Fetterman remains hospitalized, hears voices 'like the teacher in Peanuts.' He was rushed to a DC hospital on Wednesday

    1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

      Talk about wasted votes.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        Ballot paper is cheap.

      2. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

        He can still cast a vote, they just need to point him to the proper button to press.

        Like a pointed out a few weeks ago, the Dems never gave a shit that Senator Neck Lump was completely unfit for the office. They just needed someone who'd reliably vote the party line 100% of the time.

        I suspect most of their rage at Sinema is because they thought they were getting the radical left bombthrower that she was in the Arizona legislature, not the slightly less retarded politician who only votes for the party on 98% of everything else.

        1. JimboJr   2 years ago

          they wanted their standard "support the party at all times while getting filthy rich grifting" and instead they got someone who values the latter a little bit more than the former.

          Also telling that another 99% believer is literally hitler to them. She's gonna get Rowlinged

        2. Vernon Depner   2 years ago (edited)

          they just need to point him to the proper button to press.

          Facilitated Voting™

  18. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

    This is something a libertarian publication might just be interested in.

    https://www.thecentersquare.com/national/cramer-bill-bans-banks-from-making-financial-decisions-based-on-politics/article_ee1eaefc-a891-11ed-b04d-0ff5f7d7a056.html

    Sen. Kevin Cramer, R-N.D., reintroduced the Fair Access to Bank Act to combat what he called the "weaponization of the financial system."

    “For too long, banking institutions have arbitrarily denied services to legal and constitutionally-protected businesses such as those in the firearm industry, to advance a politically-driven agenda that would deny critical financial services to the industry that provides the means for law-abiding citizens to exercise their Second Amendment rights," Keane said.

    1. Commenter_XY   2 years ago

      This libertarian is paying attention. Firearms dealers are not the only people/companies who have banking problems because of an agenda. So do state run marijuana dispensaries. They also run into problems from the Feds. Not as much as before, but it still happens - the bank will abruptly close their account.

  19. Rich   2 years ago

    She is a queer woman married to a transman. ... Today she is blowing the whistle.

    I *think* I understand "queer woman" and "transman". But what is meant by "blowing the whistle"?

    1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

      ITS A DOG WHISTLE!

    2. Idaho Bob   2 years ago

      Yeah, I'm gonna need a trans-lator.

      1. Ajsloss   2 years ago

        Better than needing a trans, later.

    3. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

      Something went horribly wrong with the spouse's surgery?

      1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

        Plays a nice tune when taking a piss.

    4. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

      If she's a woman and "he's" a trans man, it sounds like there's no whistle involved.

    5. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      Which one gets to have the abortion?

  20. JesseAz   2 years ago

    Queen doctor in trans clinic turns whistleblower.

    https://www.thefp.com/p/i-thought-i-was-saving-trans-kids?utm_source=substack&publication_id=260347&post_id=101682797&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share&action=share&triggerShare=true&isFreemail=false

    Read how doctors move to transition kids without informed consent. How many regret transitioning quickly. Parents being ignored by doctors. It has it all.

    1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago (edited)

      It’s not happening /jeffy /mike

  21. Earnesto Concernada   2 years ago

    Politicians have a first amendment right to say whatever they want. It’s protected political speech.

    That is, unless they’re spreading the Big Lie, or other misinformation on Twitter. Elon Musk’s days are numbered.

    1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      Uh, sure.

      Are you happy to get a reply, you stupid fuck?

    2. DesigNate   2 years ago

      That’s protected too, dipshit.

  22. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

    How long until Illinois becomes the first state to go under financially?

    https://www.thecentersquare.com/illinois/illinois-lawmaker-property-taxes-will-go-to-mars-if-teacher-pensions-arent-addressed/article_d53d2aee-a8d2-11ed-8bff-47e6f20576f4.html

    TRS currently has a total unfunded pension liability of $80.6 billion among two different tiers of employees. Tier 1 is for those in TRS before 2011, and Tier 2, with fewer benefits, is for those hired after 2011.

    State Rep. Steven Reick, R-Woodstock, said if unfunded liabilities fall on the school districts to be paid, residents of Illinois will see an increase in their property taxes.

    "If we wait until 100,000 of those 144,000 [retired teachers] are coming screaming at our doors saying, 'hey, I want my money,'" Reick said. "If it all falls on local school districts, our property taxes are going to go straight to Mars."

    Illinois residents already pay the second highest property taxes in the U.S.

    1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      What are the organs of the 144,000 retired teachers worth?

      1. Minadin   2 years ago

        Less if you flood the market with 144,000 of each organ.

        1. mulched   2 years ago

          Kidney market hardest hit.

    2. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      Another idea about pension fund shortages: offer bounties to recipients who take out others.

      1. mad.casual   2 years ago

        [*blam*]
        Son: Dad! You killed Mom's Mom because she was drawing a public pension!
        Dad: She was drawing a pension?

      2. Chumby   2 years ago

        Two pensioners enter, one pensioner leaves.

  23. Naime Bond   2 years ago

    Whoever is asking this question (or doesn't know the answer) should have their citizenship stripped.

    1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      Citizenship is racist!

    2. Derp-o-Matic 6000   2 years ago

      But they could still vote and receive government assistance, right?

  24. Nardz   2 years ago

    https://twitter.com/KayleeDMcGhee/status/1623746744709152770?t=9bKAwV_cGCBZXuPTSwqIIg&s=19

    This is truly mind-blowing. In Baltimore, there are 23 schools with *zero* students proficient in math. Twenty more schools only have one or two students who tested at grade level.

    [Link]

    1. JesseAz   2 years ago

      But how are they graded in being a victim?

    2. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      How many political parties have zero proficiency in math? Why pick on teachers and kids?

      Also, math is racist.

    3. Derp-o-Matic 6000   2 years ago

      Obviously, the teachers just need more money and time off.

    4. JimboJr   2 years ago

      But do they know enough to make posters, protest, and burn buildings?

      The Red Guard doesn't have to be smart to be effective. In fact, it would probably be a hinderance

    5. Chumby   2 years ago

      There needs to be a bipartisan effort in Baltimore to address this. Until then, it is the Republicans fault.

  25. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

    Crappy Public Schools.

    https://www.illinoispolicy.org/chicago-public-schools-hit-record-graduation-rate-as-math-reading-scores-drop/

    In spring 2022, CPS leaders boasted of a record-high graduation rate after the four-year graduation rate increased by nearly 3 percentage points between 2021 and 2022. But just 23% of students in the graduating class of 2022 could read at grade level as juniors during the 2020-2021 school year. About 21% could perform math proficiently.

    1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

      Math is racist.

      1. JesseAz   2 years ago

        And in a few more decades kids won't know what the prior post even means.

    2. Rich   2 years ago

      You may find this amusing:

      23 Baltimore schools have zero students proficient in math

      1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

        Nobody needs 23 schools.

        1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago (edited)

          Well, not for math.

          But we need more schools for DEI, woke indoctrination, and trans-gender promotion. Also "teachers" who pay union dues.

      2. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

        The point of Freirian-inspired education isn't to create literate or mathematically proficient students, it's to create marxist activists. They stupidly assume that it happens by magic as long as the students "are culturally engaged."

        A bunch of schools in California were doing phonics-based education, but dropped it because the teachers didn't want to do the work involved. Reading scores plummeted and now the teachers are admitting that was a mistake.

        You can't create a literate society using "culturally responsive" learning or whatever new trendy buzzphrase the educational complex is using. You have to--gasp!--use the "structures of white supremacy" for that to happen. Because, you know, being literate and mathematically proficient perpetuates systemic racism.

        1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

          A large percentage of (especially urban) students arrive at school so undersocialized and stunted that they will never reach proficiency at literacy or math. The "No Child Left Behind" folks have no plan for what to do with them.

          1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

            Post office jobs?

          2. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

            As long as minority communities continue to adhere to the declarations of volk-obsessed retards like DuBois, and believe that equal outcomes are possible, that's certainly the case. But part of that attitude is what leads to the blatant discarding of programs that are actually demonstrating positive provable results, just because the teachers don't want to put in the work of executing the program themselves. They're imposing a ceiling on these kids through their own laziness and conspiracy-addled thinking, that only the rare exceptions are going to be able to break through.

        2. Nardz   2 years ago

          "SEL" = "social emotional learning"

        3. Gaear Grimsrud   2 years ago

          The primary purpose of public schools is indoctrination in the favored political philosophy de jure. The secondary purpose is to have a captive audience for the latest experimental curriculum imagined by elite academics who know they will never ever pay any price for their failures. Public schools exist to enrich the adults who suckle at the public tit. Kids are collateral damage.

    3. Moonrocks   2 years ago

      So they lowered standards to push out more graduates and their graduation rates only increased by 3%?

    4. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

      These days you need about a 4th grade reading level to graduate from an urban public school.

    5. TrickyVic (old school)   2 years ago

      Leave no child behind.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        Don't say "child" and "behind" in the same sentence.

  26. Nardz   2 years ago

    https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1624059081819398147?t=svf_KKhqoMKCTp6wpnzFBw&s=19

    Today's NYT article on Fetterman makes clear his incapacities and health challenges are far graver than were known.

    Nothing but the best of wishes to Fetterman and his recovery, but it's urgent to recall how aggressively and deliberately the media lied about this to elect him:

    Right before the election, an NBC reporter, @DashaBurns, did her most basic job by honestly reporting Fetterman seemed incapable of speaking and understanding her.

    She was mauled by liars like @karaswisher who, eager to elect Dems, attacked the reporter.

    At some point, when the corporate media gets caught lying enough times right before elections, in every case to protect Dem candidates - NY Post's reporting on Joe Biden is "Russian Disinformation" (CIA/CNN/NBC) - it has to become some kind of crisis or at least revelatory event.

    [Links]

    1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      Democrats: even a brain-dead vegetable is better than a Republican. For the senate and for your kid to marry.

    2. Commenter_XY   2 years ago

      This is totally true = Fetterman. The public spectacle that we are seeing play out wrt Fetterman is 'mocking the poor' (cannot humiliate a person for their disability); I blame his wife Giselle and his closet 'friends' who are watching this happen, and doing nothing. They did nothing, knowing that his stroke was debilitating, while he 'campaigned' during the election.

      The immorality is monstrous. That is the part that troubles me the most, Nardz.

  27. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

    Narrative dissonance.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/us-links-chinas-military-balloon-surveillance-program-targeted-over-40-countries

    But the narrative dissonance on display out of the same administration is interesting: first, a potentially weaponized 'spy' balloon is hyped by Biden officials; second, a national media panic ensues complete with national security officials scrambling amid non-stop major network coverage; and three, an advanced fighter jet is dispatched to shoot the balloon down over the American east coast with a sidewinder missile.

    Something isn't adding up here.

    1. Rich   2 years ago

      The US is looking very determined to seek retribution against China for the 'spy balloon' saga, with the FBI now talking criminal charges in an early afternoon announcement.

      All this "looking" and "talking" must have Xi shaking in his boots.

      1. Quicktown Brix   2 years ago

        We could float a parade size Winnie the pooh balloon over China and call it even.

    2. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

      I wonder why they used a missile, which obviously didn’t explode when impacting a ballon, instead of machine gun fire to puncture the ballon?

      1. MK Ultra   2 years ago

        Costs more.

      2. Ronbback   2 years ago

        I don't know if the type of aircraft capable of getting to the ballon carry guns anymore. no one wants to have to get that close in air to air combat. I may be wrong though so maybe someone can enlighten me.

        1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

          I believe you're right. We don't have a platform that can get a machine gun to that altitude.

  28. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

    EU whines that Twitter doesn't have an appetite for censorship.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/eu-complains-elon-musks-twitter-lacks-appetite-censorship

    “I am disappointed to see that Twitter’s report lags behind others and I expect a more serious commitment to their obligations,” Vera Jourova, a European Commission vice president for values and transparency, said in a statement.

    1. Moonrocks   2 years ago

      European Commission vice president for values and transparency

      Talk about an Orwellian job title.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        What do you expect on a continent with thousands of years of theocracies, monarchies, and palace intrigue, spiced up with a century of Marxism?

        1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

          The hereditary aristocracy has never forgiven The Shot Heard 'Round The World and has spent the last 250 years trying to reassert their unquestioned authority.

          1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

            But with more women and negroes in charge.

            1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

              There were always powerful women in the aristocracy.

  29. Rich   2 years ago

    Anybody else getting logged out while trying to post?

    1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

      No

    2. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

      Only about once a week. It seems to happen when Reason's software here is ready to time you out and have you log back in.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        Same here.

    3. Gaear Grimsrud   2 years ago

      Only when I say mean things about Sullum.

  30. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

    "Missouri's version of Florida's "Don't Say Gay"..."

    On the subject of political lies, this item is a great example of one.

    1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      Political lie or journalism lie?

      1. Ronbback   2 years ago

        Political lie or journalism lie?"
        seems there is no difference between the two anymore

  31. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

    And why wasn't this shot down over land were recovery would be easier?

    https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3852009-chinese-spy-balloon-revelations-raise-stakes-for-us-response/

    So far, dive teams have only pulled the canopy, some wiring and a small amount of electronics from the water, FBI officials said in a briefing Thursday. The rest is at the “ocean bottom,” including the majority of the balloon’s payload, with recovery efforts expected to take a while due to weather.

    1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

      Because they knew what it was, and don’t want you to know.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        Look! A UFO!

    2. Ronbback   2 years ago

      the only reason to do it over the ocean was if they thought it might have poison gas in it but if that were true it could have been shot over the ocean before it reached Alaska. I really think out military higher ups don't give a shit or actively colluding with other nations to maintain the status quo but that is a risky game that no wins since eventually some one won't think its a game anymore

      1. Cronut   2 years ago

        I think our military higher ups are just idiots who suck at their jobs.

    3. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

      Biden didn't have permission from China to shoot it down until after it completed its mission.

  32. Nardz   2 years ago

    https://twitter.com/LoganLancing/status/1624039518213967873?t=8Yy8w7Nc8nqov4wzYhzWtg&s=19

    Queer Theory activists think children have "gender souls" that are imprisoned in "sexed bodies." They work to convince children to destroy their body and identity to release the gender soul and "become" more humanized.

    This is what that process looks like in practice.

    [Link]

    1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

      Sound like a religion.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        Sounds like mental illness.

      2. Derp-o-Matic 6000   2 years ago

        A bleak and very gay religion.

      3. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

        It basically is. James Lindsay calls it a form of hermetic gnosticism--these political activists claim there's this secret knowledge that only they have access to, but you have to undergo a "transformation" to be able to gain that knowledge yourself. By remaking yourself, you then understand that you can remake the world in your image. It's very much designed to appeal to both people with god complexes, and those who experience alienation because they don't fit in with most of society.

        The transformation can be promoted in many forms, but the basic idea hasn't changed much since Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto. That's why so many of today's marxist-influenced activists use buzzphrases like "transformative change" and "disrupt and dismantle" when talking about existing institutions.

    2. Ska   2 years ago

      Fucking Xenu strikes again.

  33. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

    Where were the parents? And why were they out at 1 am?

    https://cwbchicago.com/2023/02/boys-ages-15-and-16-had-rifle-and-pistol-on-the-red-line-downtown-chicago-police-say.html

    Two juvenile boys, riding the Red Line in downtown Chicago at 1 a.m., were carrying a rifle and a pistol when Chicago police officers stopped them for smoking on a train car, according to CPD.

    he cops were patrolling the State-Lake platform early Thursday when they saw the boys, ages 15 and 16, smoking together on a standing train, Chicago police said.

    1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

      Parents? What are those?

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        White privilege.

    2. Ronbback   2 years ago

      wait so carrying the guns was okay but it was the smoking that got them in trouble?

    3. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

      If a were a 15-year-old boy cruising around downtown Chicago at 1:00 am, I would want to be armed.

  34. Fist of Etiquette   2 years ago

    Do politicians have a First Amendment right to lie on the campaign trail?

    Government actors get to enjoy constitutional protections for themselves even as they ignore them for others.

  35. Fist of Etiquette   2 years ago

    Missouri's version of Florida's "Don't Say Gay" bill...

    JFC

  36. Fist of Etiquette   2 years ago

    Would you have more kids if it meant never paying taxes again?

    If you trust that promise you're not smart enough to be a parent.

    1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      What's the prize for having abortions?

  37. Fist of Etiquette   2 years ago

    And @RepNancyMace went full goblin mode.

    Not bad.

    1. Ska   2 years ago

      You know, I'm something of a scientist myself.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        Are you a biologist? Can you straighten out this whole gender thing?

  38. Fist of Etiquette   2 years ago

    ...Biden's effective and Clintonesque sowing of fear, uncertainty and doubt about Republicans' stewardship of popular benefit programs.

    Making money meaningless should sow doubt.

  39. Fist of Etiquette   2 years ago

    At least nine states are trying to restrict or criminalize drag shows.

    Expand that ban to other classes of clowns and I'm on board.

    1. Ronbback   2 years ago

      I've always hated clowns ever since has a toddler, in a hospital, a clown was mad that I wouldn't laugh at him. Piece of shit I had a stomach full of stitches, laughing was the last thing i wanted to do and his jokes weren't funny either. I hate all clowns

      1. Fist of Etiquette   2 years ago

        Patch Adams 2: The Revenge

        1. rev-arthur-l-kuckland   2 years ago

          And at 6 hours is half the run time of it part 2

  40. Cronut   2 years ago

    No, they are not trying to criminalize drag shows. They are trying to restrict or criminalize drag shows *for children.* Why do you fucking sickos have such a burning desire to expose yourselves to children?

    Calling it anti-LGBT is fucking evil, because it assumes all gay people want to be involved with the sexualization of children. Using gay rights as a shield for pedophilies and groomers is exactly what allows evil pedophile psychopaths to adopt two children and then rape them repeatedly, and get paid to let other people rape them as well, to the detriment of normal gay people who just want to live regular lives.

    1. Nardz   2 years ago

      Reason is pretending that story doesn't exist

    2. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      Yep, just like when gay activists demanded access to parades. They want to dance down the street almost naked performing simulated sex acts. Just like all the other groups in the parade.

      1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

        That would make marching bands more entertaining.

    3. JesseAz   2 years ago

      They always claim that others accuse all of the LGBT community aa groomers. Yet they always say here any attack against groomers as applicable to all LGBT.

  41. Fist of Etiquette   2 years ago

    A former employee of the St. Louis Children's Hospital's Transgender Center writes about the shaky standards for treatment she witnessed there.

    Former. Nice to know removal from an environment sees effects of that social contagion subside.

  42. Fist of Etiquette   2 years ago

    Biden's changes would add gender identity discrimination to the law's purview, expand the definition of sexual harassment (requiring schools to investigate anything that meets this lower bar), and require schools to use the "preponderance of evidence" standard instead of the more stringent "clear and convincing evidence" standard in sexual assault cases.

    Wringing much out of that single sentence rule.

  43. Fist of Etiquette   2 years ago

    But no official statement on the balloon has been released since it was shot down.

    Could that entire episode get more embarrassing?

    1. Moonrocks   2 years ago

      With this regime, I'd bet on it.

    2. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

      Was the balloon leaving a chemtrail?

  44. Chumby   2 years ago

    Reason Roundup should include a sammich of the day recipe.

    1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

      Only from mastodon links. Make it challenging.

      1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

        Mastodon sandwiches? How neanderthalish.

        1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago (edited)

          I hear Paleo is good for you.

          Also, I identify as part Neanderthal. When do I get reparations for the genocide committed by all you Homo sapiens?

          1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

            You mean those Homo Sapiens who came out of Africa?

  45. Fist of Etiquette   2 years ago

    San Francisco Supervisor Hillary Ronen is urging state legislators to decriminalize prostitution.

    Got something you wanna tell us, Hill?

  46. Fist of Etiquette   2 years ago

    The idea that Americans have only been gaining weight since the 1980s is wrong...

    They've also been getting stupider.

    1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

      Look at pictures of the 400,000 young people at Woodstock. See many fatties?

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        Are you promoting the heroin diet?

      2. Ronbback   2 years ago

        people have gotten fatter ever since they started giving more vaccines beyond the initial three for polio & mumps and rubella now they get some thirty vaccines and the body does not like it

        1. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

          No, there's a pretty clear correlation between the nation's obesity rate and the rise of women entering the workforce. No one has time to make healthy home-cooked meals anymore, and typically just throw something in the microwave or grab takeout. Schools are having to feed kids breakfast now in addition to lunch, for fuck's sake.

  47. damikesc   2 years ago

    Note worth a mention in Reason:

    https://thehill.com/homenews/3849304-scott-doubles-down-on-sunsetting-all-federal-programs-after-bidens-jab/

    Sunset all federal policies within 5 years. You'd think libertarians would applaud bills like this.

    1. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   2 years ago

      Then Scummy Scott did a 180 and accused Biden of making up his plan to sunset SS and Medicare.

      1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

        You mean this Joe Biden who once-upon-a-time proposed sunsetting a lot of programs including SS and Medicare?

        https://nypost.com/2023/02/08/biden-supported-sunsetting-all-federal-programs-including-social-security-and-medicare-as-a-young-senator/

        As a first-term senator from Delaware, Joe Biden introduced a bill that would sunset all federal programs — including Social Security — every four years, a policy goal that he attacked “some Republicans” for during his State of the Union address Tuesday night.

        The legislation Biden put forward in the Senate back in July 1975, when, like now, the US economy was in a nosedive, would have terminated “all provisions of law” which allow “new budget authority for a period of more than four fiscal years,” the congressional record shows.

        1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

          Here's part of the bill's text for reference.

          https://twitter.com/SenRickScott/status/1623374458340708375?s=20&t=cYiUXukGm1Wu4baRn3cZOQ

          I don't have a bill to sunset Medicare and Social Security, but @JoeBiden did.

          1. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   2 years ago

            So Joe Biden is to the right of the entire GOP and Rick Scott?

            Okay. Whatever.

            1. Sevo   2 years ago

              turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
              If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
              turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

            2. damikesc   2 years ago

              So...what precisely was your complaint, pedo?

              1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

                Perhaps Turd is unhappy he's been beat out at lying by Joe Biden.

          2. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

            We should admire Joe for overcoming his Republican past.

    2. Mike Laursen   2 years ago (edited)

      Oh, that’s right. Reason’s not mentioning something is solid proof they are censoring the information. Nay, it even means they are heartily allied with opponents of the thing they didn’t mention.

      1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

        I'm sure you've heard of "gatekeeping", Mike. Maybe you need to look up the term "shill" with a mirror as well.

        1. JesseAz   2 years ago

          It is just selection bias.

          1. Uilleam   2 years ago

            He's one of the writers, butthurt when Reason is criticized. Him and sarcasmic post the same defense almost daily.

            1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

              Sad!

      2. damikesc   2 years ago

        I find it odd that Missouri having a bill (a state bill, mind you) dealing with teachers trying to sexualize children is worthy of condemnation, but a FEDERAL bill to retire ALL federal legislation after 5 years without a vote to re-authorize is not worthy of mention.

        1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago (edited)

          Neither one of us knows why no Reason writer has mentioned Rick Scott’s proposal, but let’s examine your presumption a bit:

          1. First of all, the article you linked to doesn’t mention any bill. It does mention Scott’s “proposal” or “plan”.

          In another The Hill article it is made clear there is no bill and nobody else in the Republican leadership is down with Scott’s plan:

          https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3852262-mcconnell-says-sunsetting-social-security-medicare-is-a-rick-scott-plan-only/

          So, it’s just Scott talking. No bill. If that’s the case, why should Reason discuss it?

          2. Say there were a bill. Lots of bills get proposed and most don’t make it out of committee. Why should Reason discuss it unless it is showing traction?

          3. Reason has advocated for sunset laws. Here’s an example:

          https://reason.com/2012/08/16/the-case-for-federal-regulation-sunset-l//

          1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

            Nothing wrong with sunset laws, in fact, every law should have a sunset clause and force people to look at it to see if it should be renewed, updated, or scraped.

            1. Longtobefree   2 years ago

              The scary part of sunsetting bills is that there is an opportunity every so often to make bad laws worse.
              I suspect the "sunset" reviews of social security would result in increased benefits to more and more people, and many new taxes to "fund" it.

          2. Chumby   2 years ago

            The byline has “Reason Staff” but did ENB write it?

            1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

              The original complaint was about Reason, not ENB:

              https://reason.com/2023/02/10/do-politicians-have-a-first-amendment-right-to-lie-to-you/?comments=true#comment-9921000

              And you say I’m the one who moves goal posts. You might want to look in a mirror.

  48. Nardz   2 years ago

    https://twitter.com/pegobry/status/1624013078936313856?t=o-sRtikvnBJJ3Ia-4lcLUw&s=19

    Nothing better reveals the nature of the left than their attitude to crime.

    Firstly, reflect on the notion that a phrase like "tough on crime" is even controversial. Like, what is the other choice? It's literally called CRIME. How wild is it that "Meh" is even an option! But this is what the left is.

    And if you doubt this, imagine a dinner at a hip, bourgeois setting, in central...London, New York, or Paris. One of the appropriately bobo guests says, a propos of nothing, "You know, I'm really tired of the crime. If there's a murder, I hope they catch the guy, lock him up, ...

    ... and throw away the key."

    Is there any doubt that, in this setting, this would be received as if he'd just spat on the floor? Even though this is not a particularly controversial statement.

    Think about the fact that when one Tony Blair, newly elected leader of the Labour Party, declared himself "tough on crime", this caused controversy in his own camp. Again: how is it that there is even another option!

    Now, really, the only reason why someone would think it's bad to be "tough on X" is because they think X is, well, good. Or at least not too bad.

    Now, think about what crime is, according to leftist principles.

    According to Enlightenment doctrine, society is based on a "social contract" and law is the expression of the general will (you are already laughing, but they say this!). Therefore, as a breach of the social ...

    ... contract, there can be nothing worse than crime.

    And yet!

    Perhaps what you care about is distributional impact. And we find that crime disproportionately affects the poor, disproportionately affects minorities, and, of course, constitutes a special threat to women.

    And yet!

    And finally, we are told that leftism is based on empathy for victims. Well, here's a situation where you have actual, literal victims. People who are quite literally the definition of victims! And how do leftists feel about them? They HATE them.

    In France, a newspaper published a picture showing that the Syndicat de la magistrature, a left-wing judges' unions, had a "Mur des cons", a "Wall of assholes" where they put up pictures of people they didn't like, including tough-on-crime politicians, but also relatives ...

    ... of victims, people whose daughters had been raped and murdered by repeat offenders. Actual victims, and how do leftists respond? With contempt and loathing.

    And who do leftists have sympathy for, on the other hand? Criminals.

    Some will balk at this, but this is literally true.

    The history of anti-death penalty activism starts with Victor Hugo's novella "Last Day of a Condemned Man". Hugo was a very prominent leftist and one of the earliest significant figures to agitate against the death penalty. The novella sympathetically portrays the inner ...

    ... monologue of a man who is about to be executed for a crime. For many pages, Hugo tries to wring tears from the readers about the fate of this poor man. What is not mentioned, not once, not ever, is the crime itself or its victim. The victim doesn't exist.

    During the 90s, it seemed that every prestige TV drama in the US had to have its "death penalty episode", the point of which was to show that the death penalty is baaaad, usually through a tear-jerking portrayal of a criminal. (The one I remember well is from "The Practice")

    This is as absolute a moral inversion as it's possible to be: you have a literal criminal, and a literal victim, and the literal criminal is portrayed as a victim.

    And, of course, there isn't just culture, there's policy. There's about 70 years of social science that shows that locking up criminals works and dramatically reduces crime, and yet the left consistently agitates for lower sentences for criminals.

    In the US, in France, in the UK, everywhere, mandatory minimums are coded as a right-wing issue. On the rare occasions where a left-wing politician takes it up, this is seen as triangulating. Of course, mandatory minimums wouldn't even be discussed if there weren't left-wing ...

    ... judges giving recklessly short sentences (nobody even conceived of mandatory minimums in, say, 1927).

    So, what can we take away?

    1. Leftists believe the opposite of what they say they believe. Always.

    2. Leftists love criminals because they have a perverted fascination for the dirty, the immoral, the grody.

    3. Leftists are pro-crime because they are pro-destruction.

    1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      "It’s literally called CRIME."

      Haven't you seen Les Mis on Broadway like a dozen times and cried every time?

    2. damikesc   2 years ago

      Reason writers seem to be upset that some are not totally on board with the plans to regulate police, ignoring how incredibly inept the Left has been in that area and few want the problems of large cities to be exported to smaller locales.

  49. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   2 years ago

    The GOP Is Starting to Plot Against Donald Trump
    .......
    “I don’t think it is fair to call Donald Trump a damaged candidate,” said Eric Levine, a top GOP fundraiser who has been calling on the party to move on from Trump since the 2020 election and the uprising at the Capitol. “He is a metastasizing cancer who if he is not stopped is going to destroy the party. Donald Trump is a loser. He is the first president since Hoover to lose the House, the Senate and the presidency in a single term. Because of him Chuck Schumer is the Leader Schumer, and the progressive agenda is threatening to take over the country. And he is probably the only Republican in the country, if not the only person in the country, who can’t beat Joe Biden.”

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/02/09/gop-trump-2024-election-00081944

    Whoa. Donnie is fini.

    Now dump Joe and KamKam, Democrats.

    1. Brandybuck   2 years ago

      Used to be the GOPs mission to get Republicans elected. Which is why they got on board the Trump train to begin with. But that Trump train was shortsighted and they need to dump him and his buttlickers if they don't want to be a minor party.

      1. Sevo   2 years ago

        Stuff your TDS up your ass, brandyshit.

        1. ObviouslyNotSpam   2 years ago

          Substantive comment, as usual, Scato.

    2. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

      Your analysis on the link, is of course, very shallow.

      This is more to the heart of the matter:
      “Trump can only offer four more years,” said Dave Wilson, the president of the Palmetto Family Council, an influential evangelical group in South Carolina. “How are we going to build a movement that goes beyond the next four years to the next eight years to the next twenty years, that parallels what we have seen over on the progressive side?”

      1. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   2 years ago

        “I don’t see a big bunch of donors coming behind Trump at this point,” said Andy Sabin, a metal mogul who gave over $100,000 to Trump over the years and who opened his Hamptons estate for a Trump fundraiser in 2019. “I wouldn’t give Trump a fucking nickel, and that hasn’t changed. As we get closer Trump is going to see the handwriting on the wall. Now, he may not care if he fucks everybody up. Trump worries only about Trump, so he may not care if we lose as long as he has his day in the park, but I don’t know any donor that wants to give a red nickel to Trump.”

        His former donors have come down with TDS!

        1. JesseAz   2 years ago

          Why are you democrats always so concerned who the other party nominates? You have no problem voting for your own fuckups. Yet dems are obsessed with gate keeping for their opposition.

          1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

            Because they want to control who they have to square off against in the general election. If they can't control it, then they might just wind up losing in spite of fortification.

        2. Sevo   2 years ago

          turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
          If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
          turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

    3. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

      Now dump Joe and KamKam, Democrats.

      I'm confident they will.

  50. Jefferson's Ghost   2 years ago

    "...Other state proposals have language that defines a drag performer as one who "exhibits a gender identity that is different than the performer's gender assigned at birth."

    Say goodbye to historically-accurate presentations of Shakespeare. Not only were the actors men dressed as women, sometimes these men portrayed women pretending to be men.

    DANGER DANGER!!!

    1. Nardz   2 years ago

      Wtf is wrong with you?

      1. Jefferson's Ghost   2 years ago

        "Wtf is wrong with you?"

        I ask the same of you.

        1. JesseAz   2 years ago

          Nardz is actually right here.

          Youre intentionally conflating employment rules in London at the time disallowing females on stage with trans. You are also conflating metaphorical hiding of gender to misrepresent themselves for a reason of deception in Shakespeare's plays as transgenderism.

          Both are arguments you would find in a middle school defense of transgenderism.

          1. Jefferson's Ghost   2 years ago

            Jesse:

            I was attempting to point out the ridiculousness of such laws. An actor in the part of "Albin," and numerous other characters in a stage performance of La Cage Aux Folles could be considered "drag performers."

            And then there's the proud Scotswoman piping at the local park as part of a Robert Burns Birthday party while wearing a kilt instead of a skirt. Another "drag performer?"

            1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

              Does he have makeup slathered all over his face?

              Ps: I dare you to compare a kilt wearing Scotsman with a drag performer to his face.

              1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

                That's a good way to meet the business end of a claymore, and I'm not talking about the mine.

    2. Zeb   2 years ago

      Dressing up in a disguise isn't exhibiting a different gender identity, it's just dressing up.

      1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

        Tony was trying to tell me otherwise back a few weeks ago.

        https://reason.com/2023/01/16/with-classified-documents-the-real-divide-is-between-the-powerful-and-the-rest-of-us/?comments=true#comment-9880163

        Tony 4 weeks ago
        The fact that boys played women on stage in Shakespeare’s day should make you realize how fluid indeed the concept of gender really is. It’s probably safe to say that 20th century America was extremist in its enforcement of gender norms. Many, many cultures accepted gender fluidity, not least Elizabethan England, as you yourself have noted.
        You must realize that the gender roles you were taught as a young child are extremely strict, a product of some unholy amalgam of Puritan religion and Hollywood.
        The culture you live in is extremely specific and would be considered alien and bizarre by most cultures that have ever existed. These are all things we are taught, not things that exist in nature unchanging. Anything you were taught is arbitrary, and that’s most things you believe.

      2. Jefferson's Ghost   2 years ago

        "Dressing up in a disguise isn’t exhibiting a different gender identity, it’s just dressing up."

        And how are the police called to the "scene of the crime" going to tell the difference after some delusional, paranoid "Karen" reports them?

        Such laws are beyond stupid.

    3. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      Yep, who can forget those productions in the Globe Theatre where the drag queens invited kids onstage to stuff dollar bills in their g-strings and dance together? Surely the height of western literature.

    4. I, Woodchipper   2 years ago

      Yeah because Shakespeare is the issue here. Good grief.

  51. Brandybuck   2 years ago

    > The idea that Americans have only been gaining weight since the 1980s is wrong

    So Matt is saying I'm not fat, just big boned?

    In 1980 I was 140 pounds soaking weight. Forty three years later, with no increase in height, I am a bit more than a hundred pounds over that. Yeah, I used to be a skinny runt. Now I approaching obese. (Yeah, I'll admit it). But according to Iglesias, it's not true. Good to know.

    1. JimboJr   2 years ago

      at 240 lbs you are most likely obese.

      Unless you are very tall. But if you are very tall, it would be very unlikely to weigh 140lbs without being anorexic.

      You are almost certainly obese

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        QUIT FAT SHAMING, YOU RACIST!

  52. Nardz   2 years ago

    https://twitter.com/peruvian_bull/status/1623746419118198785?t=rhi2SzJg3u0nA6BwcGQPuA&s=19

    The Federal Reserve is responsible for far more of the evils in this world than you can possibly imagine. A thread:

    [Thread, links]

  53. Sevo   2 years ago

    Isn't that picture of turd under copy right?

    1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

      Yes, I do believe it is.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        Don't fuck with Disney.

  54. Derp-o-Matic 6000   2 years ago

    The idea that Americans have only been gaining weight since the 1980s is wrong,

    I mean, for me, it really started around my mid-30s.

    1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      Dude, I bet it started around your zeros.

  55. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

    The problem with criminalizing lying is that enforcement ultimately depends of putting government officials in charge of determining what is and is not true. In most real world cases there's going to be a big grey area there that can and will be abused for political ends. The right way to deal with false statements from politicians is to refute them with facts and logic.

    1. sarcasmic   2 years ago (edited)

      Logic and facts don't matter because partisans judge veracity by the politics of the source. If they’re on your team they’re telling the truth. If they’re on the other team they’re lying. What they actually say is immaterial.

      1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

        And the government should not be protecting "partisans" from themselves if they choose to indulge in that stupidity.

      2. JesseAz   2 years ago

        You still haven't responded to your false assertions in the prior thread. You know the posts showing you lying there.

  56. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

    Some people just don't want to be parents when they're allowed to make that choice

    I think a big factor in that is whether young people have hope for the future. Governments can certainly play a big role in whether they do or not.

    1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      Hope for the future? Does that explain the lack of work ethic, too? And the eagerness to borrow (and default)?

      1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

        Many young people clearly do not believe they will be rewarded for being reliable workers.

        1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

          Well, they certainly will not be rewarded for unreliable work. Except by the nanny state.

  57. Jefferson's Ghost   2 years ago

    “…Other state proposals have language that defines a drag performer as one who “exhibits a gender identity that is different than the performer’s gender assigned at birth.”

    So, I am curious. If a person decides to go play guitar on a street-corner, dressed in a kimono, could that person be defined as a "drag performer?"

    1. Zeb   2 years ago (edited)

      I would say no. Drag and cross-dressing aren’t the same thing. Drag is a specific kind of generally very sexual performance by men who dress not like a typical woman, but in a very exaggerated and particular type of style. Basically clowns (and I don’t mean that as an insult at all). It seems like there used to be a lot more nuance to these terms. Transvestites were their own thing. Drag queens were their own thing. Now it seems a lot of people want to put that under the “trans” umbrella which doesn’t seem helpful.

      1. I, Woodchipper   2 years ago

        It's VERY helpful. But only for a certain set of people with a certain agenda.

      2. Jefferson's Ghost   2 years ago

        "It seems like there used to be a lot more nuance to these terms. Transvestites were their own thing. Drag queens were their own thing. Now it seems a lot of people want to put that under the “trans” umbrella which doesn’t seem helpful."

        Yeppers.

        And I agree -- not a "drag performer." But the question remains, how would those charged with enforcing "drag performer" laws view the statute? I could easily foresee a host of 1st amendment cases stemming from this.

      3. Quicktown Brix   2 years ago

        Agreed, but this seems like a highly subjective and hard to codify difference.

        If a dude wants put on lipstick and a dress and go out in public, as long as he's not stealing luggage, I'm fine with that. If that dude wants to read to kids, that seems inappropriate and poor judgement for all involved, but it's hard to see how you can justify that being illegal. If that dude wants to strip for kids, we crossed a line. Of course that same line would have been crossed if it was a woman. So what are these laws for?

        1. Jefferson's Ghost   2 years ago

          +++

        2. Zeb   2 years ago

          Same thing most laws are for. Getting reelected. It sucks that we are in a place culturally where a lot of people think laws like this are needed. But here we are. Seems like no time ago it was obvious to everyone that drag shows aren't for kids and you don't need to talk about sex and gender identity in elementary school.

          1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

            How can we know what to do without the government guiding us?

  58. Dillinger   2 years ago

    >>Do politicians have a First Amendment right to lie on the campaign trail?

    one man's lie is another's lack of diligence.

    1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      Are you impugning our media? Sir, our reporters and editors are extremely diligent in their core mission: supporting the narrative.

      1. Dillinger   2 years ago

        lol was being more global but I like your focus.

  59. Dillinger   2 years ago

    interested in Shackford's take on Jamie Reed

  60. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago

    • A former employee of the St. Louis Children's Hospital's Transgender Center writes about the shaky standards for treatment she witnessed there.

    Shaky standards is the understatement of the century.

    1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      Shaky Standards sounds like the theme at the drag show at the senior center.

    2. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

      The entire theory on which their "treatment" is based is false. How could they possibly have firm standards?

  61. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago

    • The idea that Americans have only been gaining weight since the 1980s is wrong, suggests Matthew Yglesias.

    DON'T BELIEVE YOUR LYING EYES!

    Oh, on a serious note, isn't someone here responsible for keeping track of days between Matt Yglesias references from ENB?

    1. JesseAz   2 years ago

      Reprogrammed it to follow mastodon links to Yglesias. Counter is broken.

    2. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      Too many sandwiches?

  62. Dillinger   2 years ago

    that Nancy Mace was a bit of a hoot too. is she for hire?

  63. NOYB2   2 years ago

    Missouri's version of Florida's "Don't Say Gay" bill

    I see Reason is still part of the Democrat propaganda machine.

    says only licensed mental health professionals can talk to students about sexual orientation or gender identity

    No, it says that among school employees, only licensed mental health professionals can talk to students about sexual orientation or gender identity.

    Critics of the bill say it would prohibit LGBTQ teachers from discussing their spouses because it could indicate their sexual orientation.

    Teachers shouldn't "discuss their spouses".

    They say it could also ban books from being taught if they include LGBTQ characters or topics, and forbid discussion of gender identity and sexual orientation in health classes.

    Well, and did Reason analyze whether that is actually true? Of course not! That would be committing journalism!

    1. JimboJr   2 years ago

      Literally can only think of one time a teacher mentioned a spouse growing up. And it was because she had a lot of shit going on, got divorced, and was really excited to be dating again.

      Felt bad for the lady, but I remember how odd it was hearing about her personal life.

      The problem is the new generation of teachers are mentally ill bottom rung college grads that are so miserable they seek validation from children that their life is OK. Society is broken, and the worst of the current generation are teaching the next one

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        Like I said above, in our modern ethic, life is a continuous public emote. Plus teachers, like most other ideologues, feel the compulsion to indoctrinate. Professional neutrality and privacy is 19th century white male privilege.

      2. A Thinking Mind   2 years ago

        I remember in homeroom in 7th grade, a teacher was talking about the World Series while the home team was playing in it, and mentioned she was watching it with her husband. That's about the level of depth teachers should go into their personal lives.

    2. markm23   2 years ago (edited)

      I can remember just one teacher that discussed her spouse – a rather young and very beautiful high school teacher that made sure us guys understood she was happily married on the very first day of class. I doubt that headed off all trouble with students obsessing over her, but it certainly helped.

      Otherwise, the only reason I cared at all about a teacher’s home life was to know whether to call her Mrs. Smith or Miss Smith. And eventually I learned to just slur the title (like Ms.), so I didn’t have to remember which.

  64. I, Woodchipper   2 years ago (edited)

    only licensed mental health professionals can talk to students about sexual orientation or gender identity.

    why does having a license make it ok? If you’re gonna take a stand that the government should protect kids from groomers, it should be that no one except the child’s guardian can talk to a minor about those issues

    1. AngelaNugent   2 years ago (edited)

      I get paid over $87 per hour working from home with 2 kids at home. I never thought I’d be able to do it but my best friend earns over 10k a month doing this and she convinced me to try. The potential with t his is endless.

      Here’s what I’ve been doing………….>>> http://www.jobsrevenue.com

  65. The Margrave of Azilia   2 years ago

    "Do politicians have a First Amendment right to lie on the campaign trail? Probably so, suggests a federal court in a new ruling."

    No, it suggests that when a politician gets defamed, he should sue and get in line behind the other defamation plaintiffs, instead of having his case fast-tracked and treated more seriously because he's a politician.

    1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

      As "public figures", it's very hard for politicians to meet the legal standard for defamation.

      1. The Margrave of Azilia   2 years ago

        Yes, I think that's not particularly fair. Maybe one unfairness can cancel out the other?

    2. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      Do voters have the right to lie to themselves and support a candidate that speaks bullshit?

      1. Cyto   2 years ago

        Would that we had some magic sauce to prevent us from lying to ourselves.

        Holy crap, would that make the world a better place.....

        1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

          There was a Jim Carey movie that explored that a bit, "Liar, Liar".

  66. Cyto   2 years ago

    Going to Google for answers, I see the top 2 links have Pokitifact and USA Today fact checkers telling me that Libs of TikTok was lying about Boston Children's Hospital offering hysterectomies as gender affirming care.

    Case closed, right? Independent fact checkers say it is a lie. Therefore, it is a lie.

    But....

    I also know that the Libs of TikTok schtick is to simply repost people speaking for themselves. I don't follow it, bit everything I have seen or heard is simply a repost in front of a less supportive audience.

    I fist saw this AOC rant and the joke about it on Twitter. There was a prominent post saying "AOC owning the transphobic and racist liars". And in response to that, someone had posted the original video that they were talking about.

    I couldn't find that again quickly.. but here it is on the daily mail, in an article about how Facebook permanently banned them for the post.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-2753963/Video-Boston-Childrens-Hospital-info-gender-affirming-hysterectomies.html

    In it you see a video from Boston Children's Hospital, featuring a Boston Children's Hospital doctor explaining gender affirming care at Boston Children's Hospital. In this clip, she explains how gender affirming Hysterectomies work.

    As I understand it, this has since been removed from their websites.

    But....

    You tell me.... Is posting that video a lie? Is repeating their own claim a lie?

    What even is a lie in this context? Is Poltifact lying when they say that LibsOfTiktok is lying? Is AOC lying when she said that they lied? Is Facebook lying when they censor the account that reports what Boston Children's Hospital claims they offer as gender affirming care?

    What about Google? They used to produce search results that would find the most linked articles on a topic. You cannot find any of the original LibsOfTiktok content at issue. The entire first page (at least) is entirely devoted to criticism of LibsOfTiktok. Odd that there are no relevant search results from news outlets or content creators more sympathetic to their views.

    1. I, Woodchipper   2 years ago

      this is just bolsheviks doing bolshevik things

      libsoftitktok literally just reposts libs own content and comments on it. She makes no claims or reports of her own.

      1. Cyto   2 years ago

        The squirrels are my first comment, which this one is supposed to be replying to. So stick this above the parent comment.

        Can politicians lie on the campaign trail?

        What about in their official duties. Like in a senate hearing? We have seen some very weighty matters over the last few years in senate committees that featured very prominent senators lying about very important things.

        But let's go a little more contemporary. Here is AOC in a committee hearing about censorship on the internet. She is calling out LibsOfTiktok for lying about Boston Children's Hospital.

        Pretty strong, right?

        1. Cyto   2 years ago

          Ok, squirrels kept eating my comments. Now I know why. They won't let me link to rumble. They just silently eat it. Maybe I should go to mastadon?

          So, here is a link I found on Twitter.

          https://twitter.com/BonginoReport/status/1623363754946703360?s=20&t=WJRLSN5jsHTQHfjZn_ZB_w

          1. Cyto   2 years ago

            Everyone should watch AOC performing here. She is actually quite strong in her presentation. She gets several witnesses to affirm the dangerous nature of LibsOfTiktok and their lies.

            It is pretty effective.

            Then go watch the video that LoT posted. The one that is the root of the accusations of dangerous lies.

            Now tell me.... Who is lying?

            1. Dillinger   2 years ago

              definitely less attractive when speaking.

            2. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

              AOC is lying, and lying her ass off in the face of facts and reality. She is also being cheerleaded by the very press that is supposed to question politicians like her.

              Now, as to the question about politicians and lying? Well, there's an old adage about being able to tell when a politician is lying and when his/her mouth is moving. The bigger issue is our press and how they smugly and unabashedly push the propaganda of one side without question or further inquiry.

            3. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

              My goodness, she sounded exactly like a retarded thirteen year old pontificating on something her sixth grade teacher said.

              And Buttplug has the nerve to squawk about MTG and Santos. They sound like beacons of truth and intellect compared to this clown.

      2. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        Yup. Words are weapons. Win at all costs.

    2. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

      DuckDuckGo is a bit different and buries far less than Google.

      https://duckduckgo.com/?q=libs+of+tiktok+boston+children%27s+hospital&t=newext&atb=v360-6__&ia=web

      The first link there is a NY Post story about Facebook banning LOTT over the incident. The fourth link is the LOTT Substack story.

      1. Cyto   2 years ago

        From that search, here is her defense.

        https://www.libsoftiktok.com/p/boston-childrens-hospital-supports

        So, the issue is "are politicians allowed to lie?

        Now, this trans thing is not my issue. I am aware of it because you cannot cross the street without it smacking you in the face. And the things I stated above were basically the extent of my knowledge of Libs of TikTok.

        So most of what was in this article was news to me.

        And she has things reasonably well documented that her claims were true and the detractors were absolutely being dishonest.

        So who is allowed to lie? Do we ban people from the public square (or private-public partnership square) for lying?

        Who decides?

        Do I get to decide? Because if I get to decide, Poltifact and USA today and AOC are banned for lying. They clearly and unambiguously lied about libs of TikTok.

        Is hyperbole a lie? Is LibsOfTiktok "lying" if they call a full hysterectomy including removal of ovaries "castration"? What about puberty blockers for trans women? The same drug is used to chemically castrate sex offenders. Is that a lie?

        Is it a lie to say they offer hysterectomies for gender affirming care of minors if they only did it a couple of times, and never for someone under 16? What if they never did one? Is it enough that they posted a video touting their gender affirming care and hysterectomies?

        1. Cyto   2 years ago

          All of this is really to point out the absurdity of the question. That anyone would even seriously entertain a question about who is "allowed" to lie is pretty ridiculous.

          Yet... Here we are.

          Facebook banned a very popular content creator for lying and spreading hate.... By telling the unvarnished truth. And they were widely cheered for doing so.

          This is a big deal.

          This is the sort of society they used to write books about that got filed in the "dystopian novel" section.

          This is red meat to any civil libertarian of any stripe. This is a layup. If you are an ACLU progressive, a Mises Caucus libertarian, a libertarian leaning conservative, a punk rock individualist, a flower power hippie... This is easy. The answer to speech you disagree with is more speech. Better ideas.

          But the US press has lost the thread. They now cheerlead for state led censorship. Have they lost their mind?

          Ant least we have a libertarian news and commentary outlet of our own. One that understand that freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society.

          Surely they would never fail to stand strong on the issue of free speech.... Right?

          Right?!!!?

          1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

            From our point of view, they have lost their collective minds. From theirs, they view themselves as the new gatekeepers of what one sees and hears, and how reality is perceived. And censorship of other viewpoints is the way to get there.

          2. Commenter_XY   2 years ago

            Cyto, I appreciated the multi-post thread; I read your comments in sequence. Good discussion.

    3. JimboJr   2 years ago

      Relevant:

      "74% of Boston Children's Hospital employees are women, while 26% are men. The most common ethnicity at Boston Children's Hospital is White (64%). "

      Boston children is extremely heavy on white affluent liberal women...who would have thought such an institution would end up pushing woke pseudoscience.

      See also: psychology

      1. ObviouslyNotSpam   2 years ago

        Are you just assuming they're affluent and liberal, because they're white women?

        1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

          Noticed the same thing.

          Jimbo is probably correct in his assumptions because it is Boston, but I like how he just treats his assumptions as logical. I also like how he cites statistics for half of what he is saying and then just blatantly pads the factual with the assumed.

        2. Minadin   2 years ago

          'Affluent While Female Liberals' is a recognized political demographic.

        3. JimboJr   2 years ago (edited)

          playing an odds game

          Boston metro area. Extremely liberal. Hospital workers tend to be well paid.

          Add in that affluent white liberals (esp munchie moms) are the main driving force behind this transgender stuff…

          The chance that they are AWFLs is very similar to the chance of playing Russian Roulette with 6 bullets loaded.

  67. I, Woodchipper   2 years ago

    Jessica Grose looks at Hungary's plan to exempt some mothers from income tax:

    Anything that reduces taxes taken from subjects of the state, and thus reducing revenues to the state, is a good thing.

    1. Longtobefree   2 years ago

      Only if the consequence of reduced revenue is reduced spending - - - - - - - -

      In the US, that ain't so.

  68. A Thinking Mind   2 years ago

    Uhm, the answer is simple. Lying is legal, slander/libel is not. If the purpose of the lie is to damage someone's reputation, that's not legal.

    1. Cyto   2 years ago

      Unless they are judgement proof.

      The lady in the park who called the police because I was taking pictures of my 3 kids playing on the playground, for instance. She doubled down and made up some stuff. The sheriff's deputy asked me a couple of questions and laughed at her after we talked a bit.

      Could I make a slander or defamation case based on what she said? Possibly.

      Could I ever recover even the cost of litigation? Not a chance.

      So, she gets to pull a Karen, free of consequences.

      1. Dillinger   2 years ago

        in the day we'd egg her house but that's a couple hundred dollars right now

        1. Derp-o-Matic 6000   2 years ago

          Flaming bag of dog shit remains cheap and effective

      2. A Thinking Mind   2 years ago

        But in the case cited for this story, there's an obvious case for slander. It all really comes down to the intentionality and truthfulness of the statement.

        If you believe it's a lie, it's slanderous. If you think it's a way of spinning an accurate statement, it's neither a lie nor slander.

        1. Cyto   2 years ago (edited)

          And if it is slander and you are judgement proof and the other party is not independently wealthy?

          If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it….

          This is sort of playing out right now.

          A guy called "Nate the Lawyer" on YouTube was defamed by a guy who is involved with Amber Heard and Meghan Markle's legal teams. He is their "social media expert" who tells the papers and the courts that bots are targeting them.

          He dared Nate the Lawyer to sue him after (admittedly) telling lies about him.

          So Nate checked his bank account and said "I can't afford to sue this guy". But Nate knows like a million people on the internet... And they chipped in. So he is suing that guy.

          And the guy is basically judgement proof. No real assets to speak of.

          But he does have powerful friends, it would seem. Because a very expensive law firm is handling his case. Too expensive for him to afford it would seem. But the exact firm that handles those celebrity rich folks.

          It is good theater, because the internet mob is determined to make it to discovery and ask a bunch of relevant questions about these celebrity clients. So they are funding the case on Nate's side.

  69. NoodleKnockerMD   2 years ago

    If a radio host can be sued for billions of dollars for lying, then so can members of the government including those in Congress.

    1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

      You would have to show intentional malice and actual damages.

      1. NoodleKnockerMD   2 years ago

        Negligence and willful breach of fiduciary duty to the citizens of the country should suffice.

      2. ObviouslyNotSpam   2 years ago

        Or, you would have to have a defendant who spectacularly forfeited his right to mount a defence.

  70. AngelaNugent   2 years ago (edited)

    I get paid over $87 per hour working from home with 2 kids at home. I never thought I’d be able to do it but my best friend earns over 10k a month doing this and she convinced me to try. The potential with t his is endless.

    Here’s what I’ve been doing………….>>> http://www.jobsrevenue.com

  71. tekcoyote   2 years ago

    Yes: politicians have a right to lie to people, in the sense that a seller has the right to lie about he’s selling and a, say, drug manufacturer has the right to lie about his products, what they can do, what side effects there are or aren’t. No one can prevent you from saying those things.

    BUT…there’s nothing that prevents someone from suing for false advertising either. If a politician promises to do [somethjng] and specifically doesn’t do it or, worse, does the exact opposite, I think that that constitutes cause to terminate their employment. In the case of a politician, that would mean recalling them from office. Mr. “Read My Lips: non new taxes” didn’t survive the next election, even after presiding over a rout of the Iraqi army.

    If someone lies to get a job, modi’s overt of the lie should constitute a cause to terminate. Why Pocahontas didn’t get axed is something I can only attribute to the stupidity of the Massachusetts electorate.

    1. ObviouslyNotSpam   2 years ago

      That's not really what having a "right" means.

  72. Libertariantranslator   2 years ago

    Most of the hemming and hawing is over what the betting odds would be of someone getting the court to hand them a win. Striking down laws against gambling would dismiss that hemming and hawing and let measurable outcomes replace ignorant and tendentious speculation.

  73. Libertariantranslator   2 years ago

    Another striking declaration is the part abt 1A protecting speech that happens to be true. What a surprise THAT would be to Edward Snowden, Manning and Julian Assange. Nowhere is Snowden accused of the lightest untruth, but of telling "unauthorized" things and scorning censors. Hizonner's sweeping statement might seem overly broad to the heretic-harriers shuffling papers in their eagerness to lynch anyone telling the wrong truths to the wrong people.

  74. Sequel   2 years ago

    You have a 1st Amendment right to lie ... but it is limited by circumstances, e.g., in court, in contracts.

    Lying to voters, and then getting elected is clearly a violation of contract, and not protected by 1A. At the moment, McCarthy is successfully asserting a claim that he can protect Santos. That can only be sustained under cover of the Separation of Powers ... just like his insistence on 15 votes to become Speaker.

  75. Snake Plissken   2 years ago

    It doesn't matter if politicians lie, nobody believes them anyway especially when they're campaigning.

    1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

      I find it hard to believe, too, but lots of people believe what their favored politicians’ say.

      1. TJJ2000   2 years ago

        Probably the other way around. Their favorite politician is the one that tells the lies they want to hear.

  76. TJJ2000   2 years ago

    Tort law forbids *intentional* (keyword) slander and libel. If the courts conclude that the intent of the lie was entirely to defame then that purposeful criminal act could be prosecuted.

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