With Classified Documents, the Real Divide Is Between the Powerful and the Rest of Us
It's not Trump vs. Biden: High officials play fast and loose with government secrets, but only regular people face harsh penalties.

Was President Joe Biden more irresponsible than President Donald Trump in mishandling classified documents? Should one be prosecuted? Both? Neither?
Let D.C. denizens hash out the treatment doled out to representatives of competing political factions over their ability to keep government secrets. The real divide is between the consequences faced by the powerful and those inflicted on the rest of us. Whatever happens to rival members of the political class, you and I would certainly face harsher punishment for breaking the rules regarding classified documents.
"Worth noting that the President seems to have absconded with more classified documents than many whistleblowers. For comparison, Reality Winner was sentenced to 5 YEARS for just one document," whistleblower Edward Snowden commented last week as attorneys and journalists were comparing the current president's cache of illicitly retained classified material with that of his predecessor. "Meanwhile Biden, Trump, Clinton, Petraeus… these guys have dozens, hundreds. No jail."
That's exactly right. Back in 2018, the U.S. Department of Justice boasted of the harsh sentence handed to Reality Winner, a former National Security Agency contractor, for sharing an intelligence report on Russian hackers' attempts to infiltrate U.S. voter registration systems prior to the 2016 elections.
"Reality Winner, 26, of Augusta, Georgia, was sentenced today to five years and three months in prison for removing classified national defense material from a government facility and mailing it to a news outlet," the Justice Department trumpeted. "Evidence presented at the change of plea hearing established that on or about May 9, 2017, Winner printed an intelligence report that was classified at the TOP SECRET//SCI level, and she removed it from the facility where she worked."
True, Winner didn't just take the report; she passed what she considered a matter of public importance to journalists. But that wasn't very different from the actions of David Petraeus, a retired four-star general and then CIA director who shared classified info with his biographer/girlfriend. He was charged in 2015 "with one count of unauthorized removal and retention of classified material," according to the Justice Department. His actions were treated with a lighter touch than Winner received.
"Former CIA Director David Petraeus, whose career was destroyed by an extramarital affair with his biographer, was sentenced Thursday to two years' probation and fined $100,000 for giving her classified material while she was working on the book," CBS News reported at the time.
Petraeus' relatively lenient treatment came before Winner's case. But former State Department employee Stephen Jin-Woo Kim was serving 13 months in prison at the time for similarly leaking classified information to a reporter. The investigation that led to his arrest was so over-the-top the Justice Department was compelled to rein in (at least for public consumption) surveillance of journalists.
"General Petraeus is admitting to disclosing NDI [national defense information] that was at least as serious and damaging to national security as anything in Mr. Kim's case," his attorney, Abbe Lowell, wrote to the Justice Department in 2015. "As we said at the time of Mr. Kim's sentencing, lower-level employees like Mr. Kim are prosecuted under the Espionage Act because they are easy targets and lack the resources and political connections to fight back. High-level officials (such as General Petraeus and, earlier, Leon Panetta) leak classified information to forward their own agendas (or to impress their mistresses) with virtual impunity."
Panetta? Yes, he too was a bit loose-lipped while serving as CIA director.
"Former CIA Director Leon Panetta revealed the name of the Navy SEAL unit that carried out the Osama bin Laden raid and named the unit's ground commander at a 2011 ceremony attended by Zero Dark Thirty filmmaker Mark Boal," Politico reported in 2013. "Panetta also discussed classified information designated as 'top secret' and 'secret' during his presentation at the awards ceremony, according to a draft Pentagon inspector general's report."
Panetta faced no legal consequences. But there's no reason he would have expected anything more than a slap on the wrist. The favorable treatment accorded the powerful relative to the harsh punishments inflicted on regular people for disclosing classified information were an issue long before Teams Blue and Red started playing "gotcha" over the treatment of government secrets.
"Government officials regularly discuss sensitive, even classified, information with reporters," Matt Apuzzo of The New York Times pointed out while discussing the disparate punishments for Petraeus and Kim. Whether or not those disclosures are punished has a lot to do with power and status.
"Over the past 20 years, dozens of military and civilian employees of the U.S. government have been punished for taking classified documents home from work without authorization," Walter Pincus and Vernon Loeb wrote in 2000 for The Washington Post. "But few of these incidents have been made public, and the penalties have been extremely inconsistent, according to current and former federal officials."
Military personnel faced legal penalties much tougher than those enforced against civilian government employees, the reporters found. And the higher you were in the hierarchy, the safer.
"There is a double standard. The more senior you are, the less chance you pay a heavy penalty," a former senior intelligence official told the Post.
The government's tendency to wildly overclassify innocuous documents or information the public has every right to know is an additional, but related, problem.
"When government information is improperly classified—particularly when the information could be embarrassing or reveal misconduct—it creates an added incentive for government employees to leak it, and the increased volume of classified information makes government secrets harder to keep," the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press warned in 2019.
Once again, those lower on the totem pole are most likely to face consequences for revealing, or merely "mishandling," documents classified as a matter of habit or to prevent high officials from looking bad. The high officials themselves will most likely get a pass, or a slap on the wrist payable out of their next consulting fee, for similar or more egregious revelations.
So pay less mind to debates over the relative handling of powerful political faction leaders when they take liberties with government documents. That's more their concern than yours. The real divide is in the difference separating the lenient treatment those powerful people can expect from the harsh penalties they would happily inflict on you.
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Sleepy Joe is biden his time until more classified documents are found.
Administration with an uplifting, totes not malicious statement
https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1614993907095314437?t=F0Ss6ouTk8Ba2seJ7BkWfw&s=19
Today, we honor the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. by continuing his unfinished work to redeem the soul of America.
And the only path towards redemption of racist America is to put different people in charge of racism.
You have to point the racism gun in the opposite direction, Bugs Bunny / Elmer Fudd style.
Right, something like this only substitute "black people" for "wabbit season" and "white people" for "duck season" and Elmer Fudd is the government.
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"by continuing his unfinished work to redeem the soul of America."
That's some fairly messianic language regarding themselves. In Christian doctrine they're borrowing the terminology from, it's God through Christ who redeemed souls once and for all with the crucifixion.
I guess it shows that the Democrats imagine that they're America's God.
Gotta love how Reason freaked out about all the "authoritarian" shit Trump said...
https://twitter.com/gatewaypundit/status/1615060999979077666?t=hCrUCK4WarUXxwNfY7uL4g&s=19
Biden Threatens Conservatives at MLK Breakfast: “If You Want to Take on the Federal Government, You Need Some F-15s, You Don’t Need an AR-15” (VIDEO)
[Link]
I guess dude forgot about the withdraw from Afghanistan already.
These Biden classified documents keep getting found, but do we know who's finding them?
Kamala's team.
Least popular team in D.C.
The Washington Vice Commanders
Nah, whoever’s behind this is obviously white since this involves privileged information.
Kamala is as white as it gets. Skin color is relative, I am informed, and she is mendacious, stupid, and has the LE & political career demonstrating her hatred for poor black people. So, by lefty reasoning, white.
They will just paper over the whole thing.
They could have hired undocumented workers.
The same people who are planting them? Stay tuned for what they have planned to get rid of Kamala.
Are you sure the plan is not to have Kamala take over, Harris appoints Clinton as her VP and then resigns?
Harris can't be counted on to resign. They'll need a way to Agnew her out.
They can #metoo her if Willie Brown would cooperate.
Perhaps literally……
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/7gwm
Good luck getting the House of Reps to confirm Hillary as VP.
Yeah, like a Clinton would wait for her to 'resign'. Sure.
It will have to be something Kamala did in DC, since her record as a prosecutor here in California is beyond reproach.
Could have used this article a couple months ago, when the only people making this arguement were the commentors, but at this point i suppose getting over denial should be taken as a win.
Poor Sullum lost his lane. Pulled off the classified documents beat.
It's a throw everything at the wall and see what sticks sort of time period. With the whole Biden's documents being discovered first thing. It makes it look like raiding Trump for documents that were under negotiation was an attempt by the administration to cover up his own crime. It's not a good look, and a new narrative has to be built.
“It makes it look like raiding Trump for documents that were under negotiation was an attempt by the administration to cover up his own crime.”
That was one of the most desperate partisan spin jobs I’ve ever read.
Well, given the administration we're talking about, cynicism is warranted.
"No matter how cynical you get, you can never keep up."—Lily Tomlin
Only the Establishment gets the benefit of the doubt. - Mike and Jeff
Which part isnt true. Have you bothered to read the PRA and court cases giving broad deference to the president and. It NARA yet?
Why do people call you a leftist?
And an idiot.
For good reasons.
It really isn’t. The ‘think tank’ where the first batch of documents were found is funded with $50 million from China. Biden’s home, where the next batch were found, was ‘rented’ by Hunter for $50k per month.
Do you see any problems here? Or is that also ‘desperate partisan’?
No visitor log for the home either.
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/no-visitor-logs-exist-for-biden-home-where-classified-docs-were-kept-white-house-reveals/
“under negotiation”
https://apnews.com/article/florida-donald-trump-mar-a-lago-government-and-politics-05541b18c364a484891f2b3076bf1847
Officials had “developed evidence that government records were likely concealed and removed from the Storage Room and that efforts were likely taken to obstruct the government’s investigation,” the new Justice Department filing says.
Speaking of partisan hacks:
"...the new Justice Department filing says."
The date of the article you posted.
August 31, 2022.
Yes, please finish your thought about the date of the news article I linked to? What about it? (For reference, the “raid” on Mar-a-Lago was August 8th.)
Always trust the biased DoJ Mike. Garland is totally non partisan.
The fact you don’t realize both NARA and DoJ treated trump differently shows your bias.
2 years is worse than 8 years. Even Obama had documents 3 years post presidency. NARA just let him slap their name on his warehouse.
And Obama apparently still houses documents. For all who want to see, they're here, 2500 W. Golf Road, Hoffman Estates, Illinois: https://goo.gl/maps/swuDJEN1ohaB8Cg78
Google Street View: https://goo.gl/maps/JjYLTDoHjyhoj5jLA
It's a former retail furniture store for a now-defunct local furniture chain.
People close to the Trump doc investigation told Wapo that Trump kept most of those docs as mementos. There's no evidence that he tampered with them, tried to sell them, etc.
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/kevindowneyjr/2022/11/16/shocker-wapo-sheepishly-admits-the-fbi-found-no-nuclear-secrets-or-anything-else-in-mar-a-lago-raid-n1646445
Anything the DOJ and/or FBI says on this should be taken with a metric ton of salt.
Have Trump or his lawyers contested that government records were taken from the Mar-a-Lago storage room?
Trump himself babbled various, sometimes incompatible, defenses: “They were planted by the FBI. “I declassified them by thinking about it.” I bet his lawyers would really like him to shut up and say nothing.
Where have they contested documents were taken dumbass? Their claims are he declassified them before he left the WH.
God damn shill. At least try to be honest.
Good luck with that.
Wonder if Mike even knows the PRA doesn't even require every copy ever printed. As long as they have the documents, copies at a presidential library is fine.
I am making $92 an hour working from home. I never imagined that it was honest to goodness yet my closest companion is earning $16,000 a month by working on a laptop, that was truly astounding for me, she prescribed for me to attempt it simply. Everybody must try this job now by just using this website. http://Www.workstar24.com
FFS, Trump did nothing wrong. While Biden sold his office and was likely using his ‘think tank’ as a document drop for business with his ChiCom owners.
But you’re to too much of a goddamned democrat traitor to see it.
It doesn't matter whether Trump declassified them. Just ask Sullum. The search warrant concerned obstruction of justice.
It's the government that has to prove Trump took those illegally, not Trump. The Archives knew docs trump took were "missing" because they likely kept inventory. Why didn't they know a VP with no classification powers took classified docs to multiple location, one which could not be considered as SCIF? The Biden Center didn't open until 2018.
Know this - (1) Biden had no declassification power as VP (2) The archives had no inkling anything was taken (3) A garage is not a SCIF (4) the classified docs at Biden's places reportedly involved Iran and Ukraine.
Nothing is certain yet, but so far, no doubt that Biden's case is worse.
The feds have already stated that they are willing to lie and falsify evidence for the goal of "getting" trump
“developed evidence that government records were likely concealed and removed from the Storage Room and that efforts were likely taken to obstruct the government’s investigation,”
Funny how nobody has bothered to asked if those “government records” Garland is mentioning in this specific instance are classified
Also interesting that they assign motive in the filing, Garland knows better than that.
More than Biden, more than anyone else in Washington, Garland needs to face impeachment.
Fear not! Hacktastic TooSilly rides in to only now note how "it's the little people" who suffer.
Because we all know that Biden will not suffer at all from his malfeasance and criminality.
The government's tendency to wildly overclassify innocuous documents or information the public has every right to know is an additional, but related, problem.
"When government information is improperly classified—particularly when the information could be embarrassing or reveal misconduct—it creates an added incentive for government employees to leak it, and the increased volume of classified information makes government secrets harder to keep," the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press warned in 2019.
It's good of Tucille to finally broach the overclassification problem, but he still doesn't get it quite right. No, overclassification isn't a problem because it causes some other problem, it's a problem unto itself. It IS the problem because it's a tool for the ruling class to hide things from the public. This nation is founded upon the idea that the public IS the ruling class, so things that need to hidden top secret need to be severely and strictly limited. Plus, using it as a tool to keep something hidden because it might embarrass the President or the Justice Department or the FBI or even a random 3-star general, that's inherently corrupt. Public life and public service means embarrassment is an inherent risk, not something you should be shielded from.
An actual libertarian might recognize this unbidden.
TooSilly? Not so much.
Further, he's peddling BS 'equivalence' between Trump and droolin' Joe.
Trump was authorized to de-classify anything he chose; ASAWK, Biden wasn't authorized to possess those documents at all.
While 'over classification' might well be an issue, let's not muddy droolin' Joe's criminal behavior here.
Reason would seem more honest if they took this angle from the outset and not after Biden had documents.
I believe intel leaders keep their clearance after they leave and go to work in the public surveillance field at a private company. That's a much bigger issue than Biden or Trump having documents.
Tuccille in an nutshell: "BOAF SIDEZ!!11!!1!!". No, JD, one of these, Trump and Biden, is not like the other. One was President and had the ability to declassify documents. One was VP and lacked any such ability. One merely had the typical dispute with the National Archives over which documents to turn over, and was being handled by the lawyers of both sides before the FBI raid. The other kept documents in multiple locations and apparently may have been selling them to the highest bidder. One was a secure room, guarded by the Secret Service. One was in places such as a garage next to a Corvette.
No, JD, you missed the divide here to play "BOAF SIDEZ" yet again. There is no "BOAF SIDEZ" here.
JD is just doing, as usual, what his masters tell him to.
Tuccile is a low level tool of totalitarian globalists (the establishment) and nothing else.
and apparently may have been selling them to the highest bidder
Just like Trump "apparently may have been" selling his classified documents to the highest bidder.
Do you have evidence for that, Jeffy, or is it just total conjecture? We have Hunter Biden's laptop where it is known he and Joe met with foreign agents.
Dude, don't you get it? Trump was trading secrets with Putin, in exchange for Russian control of US elections!
We also have Biden’s think tank (where the first documents were found) getting $50 million from the Chinese. But Jeffy will endlessly insist Trump is the one selling documents. Even though Trump is a billionaire, and Biden has made millions having only been a politician.
Is there a $50 billion check that the Chinese Communist Party made out to Trump out there?
It was far-fetched baseless claims when the left used this talking point against Trump, and it is far-fetched baseless claims now that the right is using the same talking point against Biden.
Just want to re-state that I have said along the DoJ shouldn’t charge Trump with any crime now that the documents are back in NARA custody, to avoid feeding the MAGA persecution narrative and further driving partisan divisiveness.
Name the crime. As President, Trump could declassify anything he so chose. Biden could not as VP.
There's the part that they are choosing to ignore. There's been no "Legal" determination that Trump's documents are "classified". He stated that they were "declassified" before he left office. If that is true, then no crime has been committed. Biden on the other hand had no authority to "declassify" anything as Vice President, so there's nothing to determine there.
By the way "J.D. when is Hilary going to prison?"
I guess we’ll never find out if the courts concur with Trump’s novel legal theory (that a President can declassify documents by thought alone, without telling anyone about it) if nobody gets around to charging him with any crime. We’ll see.
One thing the Mar-a-Lago documents show is that he isn’t suited to be President. Declassifying documents has consequences. They become public records and can be request via the FOIA act. If he really did declassify sensitive secret information it was highly irresponsible.
There's no "novel legal theory" about it. Trump was President therefore he could declassify documents. There's no two ways about it, Mike, and you know that. Knock it off with being disingenuous.
To be fair, he might not be able to grasp that fact.
Mikey is a stupid piece of shit.
It is not novel you retarded fuck. Egan vs Navy was decades ago.
How do we know if the documents contain “sensitive material”? I sometimes deal with “classified” projects. If I download a specifications sheet and a drawing for an electric motor, it isn’t classified information. If I take that same specifications sheet and drawing and add it to a classified project, it can be considered classified information. The information on the sheet and the drawing isn’t classified, that it is part of the project is. I was in the Navy in the early 80’s. When I was in my training school I had a roommate who was training to be an Anti-Submarine Warfare technician. I had just bought a copy of Popular Science that had an article on Soviet Submarines. I asked my roommate if he could tell me anything about an Alfa Class sub? He freaked out. He took me and the magazine to his Senior Chief. The information in the magazine was more accurate than the documents in their “secure room” that they used to learn about the submarines. As people have stated sometimes things are “classified” to hide screw ups or embarrassing things just so a FOIA request won’t turn them up. If I was in the right position I could have my grocery list “classified”.
Tom Clancy was investigated for using "classified information" in his book "The Hunt for Red October". He was able to show that all of his information was "open source". There's a reason that the magazine Aviation Week was know in certain circles as "Aviation Leak".
Trump tacitly agreed that the materials were classified at some point when he “truthed” that he declassified them (by mentally declassifying them without bothering to inform anyone of the documents change in status).
Both Trump and his lawyers have had many opportunities to dispute that the documents were ever classified but they have not done so.
It is amazing watching you misrepresent things.
This is why the numbering system was created.
3) Burn the strawman!
4) Goalposts on the move.
6) Something that happened didn’t.
Mike, lie and obfuscate all you want. Trump is innocent and your senile master Biden is guilty of high treason. Just like most of your party leaders.
So really, fuck you.
Mike, want is to go find your comments on trump before you fell into the trap of both sides only after Biden got caught?
I am sure, at that time, he wasn't putting the word raid in quotation marks when talking about it. He is now, like a good little MSN toady.
.. avoid feeding the MAGA persecution narrative and further driving partisan divisiveness.
Not because it wasn’t a crime.
".. avoid feeding the MAGA persecution narrative and further driving partisan divisiveness."
Translated from TDS-addled shit-pile-speak:
"...don't let facts drive your opinions and actions."
Eat shit and die, asshole.
I love that that’s the part you took umbrage to.
Hilarious.
Wild speculation about Biden = truth
Wild speculation about Trump = unfair persecution
That’s not what any of this is. Biden had no authority to take anything as BP. Trump has authority to take documents as POTUS. But you love democrats and hate republicans, so you will lie, and obfuscate to push your phony narrative.
Beat me to it; Tuccille's raging case of TDS makes him an ass one more time.
It is a pretty great example of how tuccille's brain 'works.' Biden did wrong, and interestingly, isn't letting a fed agency comb through his home or former office, but his employees, erm attorneys. Contrasted to biden ordering the mar a lago raid, and raid it was, this is fascinating behavior, particularly combined w/ the deliberated choice to not be transparent about the unauthorized possession, mishandling, improper storage of materials that can only be viewed or stored in a SCIF. But, what's important tuccille informs us, is that there has been a historical disparity of outcome in the judicial system based on power. That's the real story, not the criminal acts surrounding the classified documents (and yes, the law is cut and dry, this is a set of crimes; the application of the law is not).
The dispute was not typical. The head of NARA came out and said they were motivated to run to the DoJ when she saw trump on Jan 20 moving boxes out of the WH. Instead of negotiating the first impulse was to go after Trump. Where NARA slapped their name on Obama warehouses, they went to prosecute trump over a Civil law. Where president has precedence in decisions, see Clinton underwear drawer case.
The author does realize that this "laws for thee but not for me" applies to literally every single offense in the U.S. Code, right?
The Lords & Masters act like they are above the law because they ARE above the law.
You can thank Black Hitler for that.
Ye?
Bill Cosby?
Robert “Comrade Bob” Mugabe? (Seriously, check out his mustache)
https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1613621714063134731?t=vi_KENF2Ng-imwoxAKJ0-g&s=19
The latest #TwitterFiles expose as a total lie a major Russiagate story — that the #ReleaseTheMemo hashtag was fueled by Russian bots:
[Link]
Now that we know George Santos is a Russian asset, we also know that Russia is cultivating assets about as well as its waging war, these days.
Matt Taibbi basically stands on a street corner shouting "I'm a Russian asset." They're not sending their best.
WTF?
What. The. Actual. Fuck!?! Now Matt Taibbi is a Russian agent to you? Consistently left-leaning Matt Taibbi who has consistently criticized authoritarianism and stayed the course even though the herd of donkeys had gone full-on authoritarian and chanting the rhyme, is a Russian agent? How retarded are you, Tony?
Yes.
Thank you for replying that you are indeed fully retarded, Tony.
Well you tell me what explains him. Of all the lies said every single day on FOX News, of all the "takes" propagated by pundits every day on every news outlet, Matt Taibbi thinks the greatest injustice since the Holocaust is "Russiagate," the perception that hypothetical people might perceive that Trump colluded with Russia in 2016.... which of course he did.
The only explanation possible is that Taibbi, noted actual former Russian resident, is both a Russian asset and painfully obviously a Russian asset.
Man, you are one twisted and disturbed individual to believe what you're believing. Tony, that tin-foil hat you're wearing has totally fried your brain.
I clocked George Santos as a Russian asset like two days before the news broke that he is, in fact, a Russian asset. I have a nose for this sort of thing.
Yeah, a nose for that kind of thing. Right. I don’t know how you can smell anything when your head's totally stuck up your ass.
Occam's Razor. Tony is and always has been ignorant and stupid. Combine that with an in-group that rejects any facts that conflict w/ their worldview. Twisted, disturbed, not necessary, when somebody is this dedicated to their belief system.
Damn. I never thought you would so obviously show yourself to be a trial hack, but here we are. Taibbi says some things your team doesn't like, therefore he must be a Russian agent.
Watching the left completely cast aside liberalism is still a very astonishing thing to watch.
Is that really a talking point now, or did Tony come up with it himself?
Looks like Russia doesn’t have any best.
Cite?
Hey Mike. Do you agree with Tony that Matt Taibbi is a Russian asset?
"George Santos is a Russian asset... Matt Taibbi basically stands on a street corner shouting “I’m a Russian asset."
It's a cult.
It really is a cult.
That’s right Tony, anyone who goes against the democrats is a Russian asset.
What fuels your hatred of Russia? Is it because they turned away from communism and you’ve never forgiven them?
I've long suspected that the only problem the leftists ever really had against McCarthyism was the target.
This has proved that theory correct.
At least McCarthy, for all his batshittery, was honest about his goals.
Interesting. Who ordered you to think that!
Angela Landsbury n line 2. Something about a candidate?
https://twitter.com/pepesgrandma/status/1614982394850721792?t=SQUwW83pbUdXf-tWcgrbOA&s=19
After years of denials, the FBI has finally admitted that Seth Rich is directly linked to the “hack” of the Democratic National Committee email servers in 2016
[Link]
Totally a botched robbery.
It was suicide. Rich obviously shot himself in the back and then hid the gun.
Wow. Is Hunter's laptop next?
Podesta said, he wanted to make an example of Seth Rich.
Seth Rich ends up dead.
Could you imagine if a Republican had said, "We should make an example of X", then X ends up dead? The pounce stories at Reason would run for months!
Will no one rid me of this Taibbi?
"Should one be prosecuted? Both? Neither?"
Both. And also for having the classified documents.
I say neither. For purely practical reasons of not feeding the partisan divide in this country. Let the Trump thing go and let him slide off into irrelevancy.
But I understand the arguments for both, and acknowledge I could be wrong.
You always are.
Should we go dig up your pre Biden stance?
Yes, you like a fascist uniparty in charge, don’t you.
One, TDS-addled shit pile.
If I had done what Biden or Trump or Hillary did, I would be rotting in jail.
If you had done what Hillary did, you'd be on Death Row.
Well, probably not anymore. How many years ago was that?
See Seth Rich above.
A dead Russian asset - tony.
Biden and Hilary, I'd say yes. Trump, I don't think so. At the current time there is no proof that Trump has done anything wrong. I'm pretty sure that there was any solid proof, they'd have Trump doing a "perp walk" for the MSM. Biden and Hilary's crimes are documented.
https://twitter.com/sues86453/status/1614659838532882432?t=ODae1HB7Jaz2tprr4zWzLA&s=19
Sheila Jackson Lee introduces bill that criminalizes criticism of a “non-White person” by a White
“The bill says any White person who criticizes immigration or vilifies any “non-White person or group” can be charged with committing a federal hate crime.”
[Link]
Not what the bill says.
It's a terrible bill, but your source is misrepresenting it.
Go ahead and read it for yourself, here it is.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/61/text
OK, here's the bill.
To prevent and prosecute white supremacy inspired hate crime and conspiracy to commit white supremacy inspired hate crime and to amend title 18, United States Code, to expand the scope of hate crimes.
Already, in the preamble, it mentions "white supremacy" specifically. Totes race neutral, eh?
A person engages in a white supremacy inspired hate crime when white supremacy ideology has motivated the planning, development, preparation, or perpetration of actions that constituted a crime or were undertaken in furtherance of activity that, if effectuated, would have constituted a crime.
Yeah, a totally race-neutral bill there, Jeffy.
I have already broken that law several times today, with white supremacist hate speech.
So, tell me what you really think of the current White House Press Secretary? Please speak clearly into my right shoulder.
Skin color is the most important thing
This is why Jeff never reads primary sources. He only cares about what left media thinks on a subject.
Always research Jeff's claims because he never does, and boy howdy, does he ever lie.
Hard to trust a sophist shitweasel who is a champion of groomers and pedos.
Wow, looks like some air-tight bill making. They certainly won't attribute nearly anything they want to "white supremacy" in order to do and get what they want.
Thought Crime. What could go wrong?
I rest my case re what I wrote to ML above... The vast majority of non-leftist/progressives, when hearing about Lee's bill, would think back on other bills she has sponsored, on other ludicrous bs she has said about race. They then, if they didn't want to jump to conclusions, or make an assumption, even if Lee has a history of utter loopy horseshit, might go so far as to look the fucking bill up rather than breezily declaring it to be race-neutral. But not jeffy, he knows everyfuckingthing about the things he knows nothing about. A leftist's leftist, a progressive's progressive, a feminist's feminist. An asshole, in fewer words. but a left-leaning one, so he's got that.
White culture is white supremacy is something I have heard in one of the anti-racism trainings I've had to attend.
This is so vague, anything is possible.
(B) at least one of whom published material advancing white supremacy, white supremacist ideology, antagonism based on “replacement theory”, or hate speech that vilifies or is otherwise directed against any non-White person or group, and such published material—
(i) was published on a social media platform or by other means of publication with the likelihood that it would be viewed by persons who are predisposed to engaging in any action in furtherance of a white supremacy inspired hate crime, or who are susceptible to being encouraged to engage in actions in furtherance of a white supremacy inspired hate crime;
But Joy Reid's blonde hair is not appropriating my culture. At all.
"Only WHITE folk are racist!!!", Sheila Jackson Lee.
It's amazing Democrats can spill such blatant racism and not even acknowledge that its happening. Then again; they can spill Climate Emergencies all over the place with less than 1-deg C (0.77) change over 100-years while pretending such an accurate measurement can even be attained correctly.
They are just fucking with us.
Exxon Mobil's own scientists predicted things pretty accurately before they silenced them and spent millions of dollars to suppress their own science.
Now Exxon are the good guys that you believe?
Science. Science, man. It's a thing.
If you believed science, you wouldn't be spouting off on biological sex like a full retard (see below).
I realize that conservatarded Ben Shapiro simps think the sum total of science was articulated by a literal kindergartener in the film Kindergarten Cop, "Boys have a penis and girls have a vagina," but someday I urge you to read an actual book.
I've read plenty, Tony. Probably far more than you've ever dreamed of reading. I strongly suggest you learn some actual biology.
Actual biology being that subject wherein we learn that toilets care what's on the other side of a taint relative to the asshole that shits?
Tony: Science. Science, man. It’s a thing.
Your words, and now you want to move the goalposts again.
Hahahahahahahaha
Holy shit man.
Tony IS a full retard. Has he ever said anything that was really intelligent?
I love how they talk about the temperature hundreds of years ago in tenths of a degree when thermometers with that accuracy have only been around for about 65 years.
Thankfully they now use models to correct the historical temperature records.
That has always been my favorite technique. The answer is always right if you're allowed to write the questions after determining the result.
I get your overall point that we are not sure of the accuracy of old measurements, but is that because of the accuracy of thermometers or because measurement practices have changed?
Can you expound on what happened 65 years ago? Mercury thermometers were invented in 1714.
Do you have a citation for that?
Do mercury thermometers measure in tenths of degrees?
Do they have accurate and precise worldwide data with that technology from 1714?
You were much nicer about that than I would have been. He’s such an annoying idiot shill. Its a shame he isn’t subject to regular beatings for his stupidity. It would educate him.
Sheila Jackson Lee is exhibit A, B, and C for why there should be a minimum IQ to serve in Congress. Hank "Guam might tip over" Johnson is exhibits D through Z.
What would it be, 75?
75 might be pushing the high end.
Would the minimum threshold be referred to as the Fetterman Line?
No chance. He would never have a shot in a fair test.
That’s unfair. You’ve completely ignored Patty Murray.
We need a constitutional amendment prohibiting government from assigning a person a "race" or acknowledging a race they claim.
https://twitter.com/TheChiefNerd/status/1614970129531523076?t=Qmj6oNenlT8nDDoA3nytzA&s=19
NEW — The CDC has issued a $1MM grant to fund the development of a “Public Health Tool to Predict the Virality of Vaccine Misinformation Narratives”
Applications were due Jan 6, 2023
[Link]
Virality
Pun intended?
After the CDC failed their mission with AIDS, then Covid, they want to seem like they are effective. What they need are gibbets. That is hate speech against bureaucrats, petty rule makers, and the administrative state.
https://twitter.com/JonathanTurley/status/1614964283267235840?t=HKXv7Ds8kzAtpGDEfoCGpA&s=19
The House Oversight Committee is demanding the visitor logs for Biden's Delaware home. That could prove a major headache for the President. The Committee has a legitimate interest in the logs given the classified document controversy...
...Just as the Committee's had a right to tax records and other records related to Trump, a court is likely to find a valid oversight demand in these visitor records to gauge the national security threat from mishandling classified records.
Biden’s lawyers say “no such logs exist.”
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/no-visitor-logs-exist-bidens-wilmington-home-site-classified-doc-discovery-wh-counsels-office-says
Translation: “Yes they used to exist, but they were so damning that conspiracy and destroying evidence were the least worse options.”
Lost in the fire.
Just like my guns. Stupid fishing boat fire
“Just as the Committee’s had a right to tax records and other records related to Trump, a court is likely to find a valid oversight demand…”
Narrator: They will not.
Unlike the Trump tax records, in this case there actually exists a legitimate reason for the disclosure with Biden.
As ENB appears to be sleeping in on this federal holiday...
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/best-video-climate-change-you-will-ever-see
Brilliant speech addressed to our ‘woke’ youth fighting #climatechange by Konstantine Kisin.
Hunter paid, but apparently Joe didn't report to the IRS.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/why-was-hunter-biden-paying-joe-50k-month-rent-house-where-classified-documents-found
In 2018 Hunter Biden claimed he owned the house where Joe Biden kept classified documents alongside his Corvette in the garage Via @jj_talking
Totally on the up and up.
In the unfortunate event that one of my kids becomes a degenerate crackhead, I hope they are able to financially support me living a rich man's lifestyle.
Congress needs to issue subpoenas for the transaction records.
What, y’all don’t charge 10-20 times the cost of the mortgage to your adult children? Do you even libertarian bro?
The belly of the beast.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/new-system-inside-davos-summit-2023
The World Economic Forum’s annual meet-up kicks off today. Politicians, corporate giants, “philanthropists” and all manner of elite monstrosities gather for a weekend of telling each other how smart they are and making the world generally worse.
But what’s on the menu this year?
Well, here are the five main items up for discussion, according to the WEF’s website:
See if you can notice a pattern:
1. Addressing the Current Energy and Food Crises in the context of a New System for Energy, Climate and Nature
2. Addressing the Current High Inflation, Low Growth, High Debt Economy in the context of a New System for Investment, Trade and Infrastructure
3. Addressing the Current Industry Headwinds in the context of a New System for Harnessing Frontier Technologies for Private Sector Innovation and Resilience
4. Addressing the Current Social Vulnerabilities in the context of a New System for Work, Skills and Care
5. Addressing the Current Geopolitical Risks in the context of a New System for Dialogue and Cooperation in a Multipolar World
Are there parallel sessions for spouses and other "companions"? Learning to cook with bugs? How to turn refugees into effective servants?
Addressing the need for unvaccinated pilots for our private jets.
Good one!
Your solution to these grand hare-brained schemes, of course, is to hand the country over to fascists.
Because presumably as a democratic society we are under no obligation to listen to those dweebs.
Who are the fascists, Tony? The ones opposing this hare-brained stuff, or the the ones going along with it while trying to stifle dissent over it?
Fascists are people Tony does not like. The totalitarians he does like are "enlightened".
The ones banning books and trying to dismantle the democratic process.
Names and incidents.
You mean like these people?
https://unherd.com/2022/02/how-sensitivity-readers-corrupted-literature/
Nope, snowflakes like Ron DeSantis, who's ignoring the fact that his state will be underwater in favor of literally banning books and forcing corporations to adopt his political worldview.
So, if anyone other than DeSantis censors books, you're OK with it?
I think banning books is silly. I keep wondering when conservatards are going to discover that the internet is more than their Facebook news feed.
You're not going to like it when they start banning your porn.
But of course, your porn is already illegal.
How is deciding what books go into limited school libraries banning books?
But Obama's mansion on Martha's Vineyard will float.
Oh, progressives then.
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/book-burning-at-ontario-francophone-schools-as-gesture-of-reconciliation-denounced
There are statistics about which political party is banning more books.
You mean all these books simply removed from a curriculum for not being age-appropriate but still available for sale via Amazon and your local bookstore?
Libertarian defends politically motivated bigotry-based censorship. Story at nobody's surprised.
Is it your view that every book man has ever written is in every school library?
Really, choosing age-appropriate material for a curriculum is censorship?
It is when what's considered age-appropriate is only heteronormative texts to the specific exclusion of queer subjects.
So you think Showgirls would be appropriate for an 8-year old?
I don't personally think sex as a topic hurts anyone, and I think when conservatives try to shield young people from sex education, it's a sinister cover for their own motives to keep children innocent, the better to rape them. That's what I feel.
Violence, which you people are fine introducing children to in toddlerhood, is a more complicated subject to my mind.
heteronormative... queer subjects"
Nonsense words attempting to make pederasty sound legitimate and scholarly.
"I don’t personally think sex as a topic hurts anyone"
If you're applying that to children you're definitely a pedophile or pedophile adjacent.
It means that Tony, Jeffy, and Buttplug are all on the same level here.
Where that level is “hands and knees.”
Jeff?
Oh... You mean the "democratic society" that elected representatives that wanted to have filth removed from their children's Commie-Education??
Ya know Tony.. If you *really* wasn't a fascist you'd stop championing democratic tyranny and start believing in Individual Liberty and Justice for all. That ironically; would put you more aligned with Republicans and the US Constitution which never granted any Gov-Gun Power for Commie-Education.
My keynote speech for davos
"if all of you killed yourselves right now, these problems would go away"
5 - "New Systems" of Gov-GUNS poking at the people.....?
They sure like the word system don't they?
You know who else touted deluded plans for a world system?
High vax rates, yet high death rate.
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/japans-experts-baffled-high-covid-deaths-despite-high-vaccination-rate
Japanese over 65 have done their best to reduce Japan’s 612-million-dose stockpile of mRNA jabs, with 3rd, 4th, and 5th jab rates of 91%, 82.5%, and 56%, respectively. But unfortunately, Japan has started 2023 by reporting its highest ever daily Covid death tolls. During the booster era starting in early 2022, each wave has been noticeably higher than the last.
Death jab.
Hence why Ren and WaPo are now saying the death count isn't correct.
Jabanese hardest hit
We need to nip that pun in the bud
Pick a freaking sex.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/01/16/its-time-to-call-out-the-nonsense-of-nonbinary/
But this goes beyond Smith. The actress Emma Corrin, another they / them, who played Diana in The Crown, also wants gender-neutral awards. She said she found it ‘difficult’, as a nonbinary person, to be nominated in the female categories at the Emmys and the Golden Globes. It’s a hard life! Emma D’Arcy, star of Game of Thrones spin-off House of the Dragon, says it feels weird to be nominated for ‘Best Actress’ awards. If other awards ceremonies follow the Brits down the delusionary rabbit hole of post-sex, they might also become ‘inclusive’ and ‘reflective’ – ie, discriminatory and unreflective.
Are these awards for acting on-camera or off?
The only solution is to stop giving awards.
To be clear, you want people to pick a freaking sex because you as a young child were taught there were only two sexes, and it makes you feel uncomfortable to think of the world any differently from how you were taught it was as a young child? To such an extent that you require other people to conform to that narrative?
Dude, there's two sexes whether you like it or not. Every other placental mammal out there understands this. Name me your transgender dogs, transgender cats, transgender cattle, transgender squirrels. They don't exist as they understand what we as humans, supposedly so smart, fail to comprehend in our desire to be fucking unicorns.
Hate to break this to you, but the very concept of sexes was made up out of thin air by people from a prescientific age. Our categories are words, not objects in the universe. They are air on stilts. They mean something only to the extent that we choose to imbue them with meaning.
Furthermore, biology never produces absolute binaries, since biology is a messy, imperfect, ever-changing thing.
If people don't like the sexual binary, we as freedom extremists must permit them to explore a different worldview. All I ask is that you really examine what you're asking for. You're asking for other people, whom you never met and will never meet, to conform to the worldview you were taught as a young child, never questioning whether that worldview might be overly simplistic, even though it was the one you were taught, again, as a young child.
The mind of a conservative. I don't even use that word anymore. I just call it stupidity. The only difference between you and sophisticated people is that sophisticated people continue to learn things past the age of ten.
It is literally based on DNA dumbass.
Tony thinks that he can stuff the ballot box of DNA.
I guess he's tired of stuffing Jeffy.
Biological sex is binary and unambiguous for 99%+ of humans. Furthermore, transgender individuals usually have unambiguous male or female biological sex.
Secondly, society and civilization are based on social conventions and culture, and if you want to be part of society, you must conform.
Do you think transgender people are unaware of the trappings of biological sex?
Your argument was that "biology never produces absolute binaries". I'm simply pointing out that even the very limited degree to which that is true, it is of no relevance to transgenderism.
But it's right there in the name. Gender is by definition a cultural invention. It's more explicit in languages with extant genders, but even a Frenchman might wonder why a man's shirt is feminine but a woman's shirt is masculine.
Trans people, to a person, understand that they're not altering their DNA. Only you are confused on this point.
A shirt is an object. We're talking about beings here, not the accouterments people put on. The concept of dividing beings into two sexes is not a made up concept. Again, name me the transgender horses, the transgender monkeys, the transgender armadillos, the transgender chimps.
Gender being a cultural construct is most relevant to species with a culture, I would think.
Bullshit. Name me the transgender pigs, transgender rats, transgender mice, transgender bears, etc. Do it, dipshit.
Neither rats nor pigs have a concept of gender because they do not have concepts in general.
It's like pulling fucking teeth talking to you people.
No, it's more like pulling fucking teeth dealing with you.
"Neither rats nor pigs have a concept of gender because they do not have concepts in general.
Hard to believe, but you manage to reach greater depths of supidity every day.
Outside of hermaphroditic animals, most all are capable of recognizing male and female. Anyone (well, maybe not you) can see this as it results of reproduction.
I'm not "confused" on this point at all. Identify and dress any way you like, it's a free country.
But if you weren't born with a vagina, you shouldn't be able to use government for force others to let you into a women's bathroom, a women's prison, or on a woman's sports team.
There are real problems in this world, you know. Not just the sex panics some cunt with a podcast spoonfeeds you.
Nice bit of misogyny there, asshole. I think we know what you think of women based on your comments, bigot.
Yes, Tony, there are real problems in this world. Which is why people should STFU and use the bathroom based on their biological sex and stop throwing temper tantrums when others use "he" to refer to a man in bad drag.
By should use, do you mean the government should throw them in a cage if they don't? Or are you just expressing an impotent opinion about people you'll never meet on a subject irrelevant to everything?
Yes: if people trespass in areas where the owner of that area excludes them, they should be thrown in a cage. That's how trespassing laws work, even in a libertarian society.
Or you could not be a pissy little beta cuck bitch scared of a chick with a dick. Have you ever even been to a major city?
Word to the wise, Tony: "if it's got a dick, it ain't a chick".
I have a friend I see at the bar. Her name is Stacy. She wears gowns and jewels and long hair and looks more feminine than masculine. Not only would it feel unnatural to call her a "he," it would be extremely rude.
Just get the fuck out of Bumfuck Cousinfuckville and experience some goddamn actual life for a minute. You people are so provincial it's actually embarrassing for me in my stomach.
If we make you sick to your sensitive little stomach, than how about you take off, eh?
No, actually, I couldn't. Chicks-with-dicks are welcome in the men's bathroom, where I go. They are not welcome in the women's bathroom because I respect the preference of most women not to have dicks of any kind in their bathrooms.
Tony. Explain how if gender is not biological sex, why is does every trans adopt the features and look based on biological growth based on sex and DNA.
the very concept of sexes was made up out of thin air by people from a prescientific age.
You just above.
This is the problem with your post modernistic idiocy. Not even you understand your own gibberish.
Postmodernism has a lot to teach us. If there were no humans, there'd be no language, and hence no conception of the idea of sex.
If something only exists because words were invented to describe it, is it real?
If there were no humans, sex would still exist, both as male and female, and as the way most multicellular beings procreate.
A concept exists even if we lack a word for it, are not around, or have not observed it yet.
No, it really doesn't.
No. Which is why "transgenderism" and "gender" are no real: they are fabrications of people with a political agenda.
"Male" and "female", however, are real-world concepts that exist independent of language.
Post modernism is a school of thought idiots developed to pretend to be intelligent through language. It has no objective truth. It is Alice in Wonderland. It means whatever you want it to mean. Therefore it is useless.
"Postmodernism has a lot to teach us..."
Got a turd in your pocket?
""Gender is by definition a cultural invention.""
Based in the observation of real world effects. A "tree" is a cultural invention by your definition.
He can't understand the difference between a "world view" and facts of physical reality. Definitely a mental illness.
the very concept of sexes was made up out of thin air by people from a prescientific age.
This is what blind faith does to a person.
There's a reason why the stupid, the talentless, the ignorant, those who have accomplished nothing, those who have faced no hardships, are so enamored of post-modernism. It's the same reason they are such fervent believers in critical theory of any stripe. They can simply take their immature fantasy and insist that it is reality, or more important than reality. It bears saying, it's the same reason, more or less, that the same group is against the idea of merit. Tony and the vast majority of the left-leaning sorts here have never argued a point, just flailed and had feelings.
How fucking retarded are you, Tony? It's hardly pre-scientific as we know how sex-selection works in placental mammals. Here's a hint: XX and XY, with the Y chromosome being the decider (even in XXY and XYY individuals) of one being male instead of female. Anything else is very rare, and usually leads to a lot of medical issues.
Even Wiki has a decent article on it, you disingenuous fuck.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y_chromosome
But no transgender person thinks they're changing their DNA, which is why they go to great lengths to distinguish between biological sex and gender expression, a distinction you people have invested an enormous amount of stupidity into not understanding.
Even so, all our concepts are made up out of thin air. The point isn't that people can magically change their DNA. The point is that you're such a mistaken simpleton that you think certain clothes or colors or proclivities are found in DNA.
Everything that you had to be taught is not found in DNA. And that includes everything you believe.
all our concepts are made up out of thin air.
All YOURS are. Speak for yourself.
Please cite your sources, Tony.
For what? If you had to learn something, it wasn't in your DNA. That's a trivial fact.
Seriously, where's your citations.
I'm generating my own philosophy, and I feel the burden of proof, if you will, is on whomever would claim that cultural practices are genetic.
Again, where’s your citations? Put up or shut up, asshole.
I love when a conservative brain short-circuits in the face of uncomfortable truths. It's my favorite sound.
Again, do you have any citations for your assertions?
A citation for a profound insight into the nature of truth? Sure. Read Plato, Aristotle, Spinoza, Nietzsche, Shakespeare, Joyce, the Bible, James, Nagel, and any number of other of the most important philosophers and poets. Then get up to speed on all of modern science. Not just the kindergarten shit. Get back to me when you have a rudimentary grasp of the universe and perhaps we can have a fruitful conversation.
That's not what I asked for, I asked for citations, links, for your assertions. Actual scientific links, peer-reviewed papers in peer-reviewed journals. Not a bunch of philosophical bullshit.
Science has nothing to say about how people should live, which is the central question of philosophy.
But, what you’re doing does require a scientific basis. You yourself told me:
Hate to break this to you, but the very concept of sexes was made up out of thin air by people from a prescientific age. Our categories are words, not objects in the universe. They are air on stilts. They mean something only to the extent that we choose to imbue them with meaning.
Furthermore, biology never produces absolute binaries, since biology is a messy, imperfect, ever-changing thing.
Changing the topic to philosophy is merely moving the goalposts.
I’m asking for actual scientific citations, peer-reviewed papers and journals from where you got your information. So, Tony, where are they? I want actual fucking links.
It isnt a truth if it is subjective you retarded shit. People don't have their own truths. Again. Post modernism is a disease for stupid people.
And nobody gives a f*ck about your gender expressions. Dress any way you like, it's a free country.
But most people want toilets, sports teams, and prisons to be segregated based on biological sex, in order to protect non-transgender biological females from rape and sexual harassment.
Recommended reading on the subject.
https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/this-never-happens
"It is far from an exhaustive list - these are just some examples of which I’m aware - but there are a lot of names on it. Look how easily violent, dangerous males can claim a trans identity and be believed, accommodated and enabled. I’d like to ask all those shouting at us to be ‘inclusive’, how many victims do you deem acceptable collateral damage for prioritising male feelings over women’s safety?
With each case described in more detail below, here are 125 examples of trans-identified males who have raped, assaulted, abused and/or murdered women and/or children. The thing that never happens…"
This is scary shit.
Then why do they ask doctors to change them to have the dna based appearances of their change to gender?
Fuck if I know. Good thing I believe in freedom, so I don't have to constantly worry about what complete strangers are doing to their own bodies.
Do you run around telling anorexic girls to stay on their diets also?
And again, if it is a cosmetic change, why are others forced into playing into their gender roles and public dollars being used for cosmetic surgery?
Now that you've admitted it isnt biological, you can't demand anyone else to play along with the idiocy. You actually now agree with the conservative point of view.
Tony, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul, that is, if you even have one.
“by people from a prescientific age.”
Tony hates the cutting edge science of genetics and somehow refuses to acknowledge a biological fact even a medieval dirt-farming serf could recognize.
Trans people are not unaware of the biology of sex. They are more acutely aware of it than even you, who seem to be obsessed with it to distraction.
Because ben fucking shapiro or some equal shitweasel told you to be.
You yourself mixed up the terms you are now demurring to just above.
If it is a cosmetic expression and not a biological one, why is government paying for it through government healthcare?
The beauty of government paying for things is it's not really paying for it, since government invents money out of thin air.
Your question is actually why public resources are directed to (supposedly deemed medically necessary) gender reassignment procedures instead of something else. Bombing Muslims, if you're throwing darts.
"Trans people are not unaware of the biology of sex. They are more acutely aware of it than even you"
It takes an ahistorical, ascientific idiot of the highest magnitude (or an astonishing liar) to claim "but the very concept of sexes was made up out of thin air by people from a prescientific age".
You truly are an idiot. Resources don't stop being resources just because you're an idiot who believes in post modernism.
Science!
No, Tony, as a gay man, the difference between the two biological sexes was clear to me from an early age and certainly not as a convention. Trying to pretend that there is no difference is trying to erase homosexuals from the face of the earth.
I don’t require you to conform to anything. Live your life as a fat trans person if you like. But when it comes to bathrooms, sports teams, and pronouns, you will have to conform to the overwhelming preferences and choices of your culture, and those are still based on your morphology and genetics.
Sex-segregated bathrooms are an incredibly recent invention, so not only are you requiring other people to conform to the cultural practices you learned as a young child, you're requiring them to conform to the nearly brand new ones.
I've seen you obsessed loons freak out over a trans woman in women's bathrooms and freak out equally much over a trans woman in men's bathrooms.
The only relevant question, really, since this is all political, is what do you want the government to do to trans people?
Sex-segregated bathrooms are an incredibly recent invention
Public washrooms been segregated since the invention of the modern flush toilet. Are you trying to imply that outhouses, chamber pots and street shitting were communal affairs for the general public?
Human life in general was a communal affair until relatively recently.
The specifics are beside the point. The point is that there is no correct way for culture to be. Presumably, if we are free and want to be happy, we can invent a brand new culture that suits us as we wish.
Where libertarianism, or liberalism in general, comes in, is to remind us that we ought not to tell others what to do with their own bodies, at minimum.
Tony is clearly the product of a Marin county private school.
Isn't he an Oklahomo?
If he is a premature ejaculator, does that make him a Sooner?
You do realize, Tony, that a lot of "primitive" tribes separate the sexes for various rituals. Rituals to which only men are allowed, or only women are allowed. There are even those with various taboos based on the menstruation period. It is not a new concept.
Typically, hunter/gatherer villages are divided into a Men's Area and a Women's Area, and people spend most of their time with others of the same sex.
Of course. There are two important facts to absorb. One is that there is no correct way for culture to be, and human culture has been practiced in extremely diverse ways. Some cultures are rigidly patriarchal and some are matriarchal to the extent that the men are perfectly content never truly knowing which children are his own.
The other is that almost all of the cultural assumptions you keep insisting the government enforce are arbitrary and specific and the product of conquest, disease, and other bad things.
There is no correct way for culture to be. Of all the cultural practices to resit, the puritanical horror of Abrahamic religion is among the most oppressive and most worthy of our scorn.
We are supposed to be the freedom people, yet, once again, the only thing libertarians keep saying nowadays is how much they want the government to enforce their arbitrary cultural whims.
All because you can't handle learning things about the world you weren't taught when you were a fucking toddler.
If there's anyone here who wants government to enforce anything, it's you, Tony. No one else here is asking for government to do any such thing.
So what on god's green fuck are you talking about? How strangers you'll never meet should behave on their own volition?
You want girls to be forced to shower with a man merely because the man claims to be a woman.
There is no single correct way for culture to be, but there are many, many incorrect ways for culture to be, and societies that adopt those incorrect cultures fail.
That is correct: trespassing is defined based on the "arbitrary cultural whims" of property owners, and as libertarians, we want government to enforce trespassing laws.
There's an incorrect way for culture to be? With respect to what end?
Look, all I want to know is what you want the government to force people to do, and for what purpose.
Yes: cultures that are "incorrect" are those that are dysfunctional and lead to the collapse of society.
You want government to force people to comply with your delusional belief system.
I simply want government to respect private property, respect subsidiarity, and enforce anti-trespassing laws.
Actually seperate bathrooms have been around millenia, and in multiple cultures
There were public bathrooms in Rome at places like the coliseum.
A slab of concrete or stone cut into like 20 side by side toilets.
They were not unisex. Men had their commodes, women went elsewhere.
In Tony’s defense, he’s only slightly less stupid than shrike, so he probably wasn’t aware of any of this actual history.
I disagree, they are equally stupid, and equally ignorant.
Sex-segregated restrooms were introduced in the late 1800s by the major department stores in order cater to female shoppers. Prior to that, women were less than welcome in the business districts of cities, especially if not chaperoned by men, and their comfort was not a concern for businesses. Women's restrooms were therefore an important step for promoting the independence and equality of women. But I forget—you think "women" are just a concept
I prefer to shit in private and for others to do so as well. Would not all your worries be eased if we took bathroom stall doors and extended them to the floor? I've been to several places recently that have many separate bathrooms with locked doors, each individual, each unisex. I like that.
If all we're talking about is the logistics of bathrooms, there are solutions to be found. But I suspect what this is really about is the sad, desperate impulse of conservatives to maintain gender roles that started getting abandoned upon the invention of birth control. It's 2023 and conservatives are still trying to undo the 1960s.
You, on the other hand, are trying to undo billions of years of evolution.
No I'm just trying to maximize human freedom in the face of "libertarians" who can't stop talking about all the myriad ways they want government to force people to do things.
No, Tony, you're just an idiot who wants things his way in spite of biology.
I want people to be as free as possible. You want the government to throw people in a cage for shitting in a room with the wrong symbol on its door.
Freedom isn't necessarily easy, you know.
And where did I say I want people in cages, retard? You're the one asserting things that just are not true in any way, shape, or form.
So you're just shooting the shit about etiquette? How wonderful. It's one of my favorite subjects. Where are you on ice cream? Strictly speaking, it's a solid, and most correctly eaten with a fork.
they want government to force people to do things.
Cites?
"Maximizing human freedom" is giving the owner of the toilets the right to determine who uses them.
"Maximizing human freedom" is giving communities and culture the ability to protect people with vaginas from rape by people with penises, and to protect people with penises from false accusations of rape by people with vaginas.
"Maximizing human freedom" means people can refer to you using the pronouns they want, even if it hurts your feelings.
Conservatards always project such weird things. Do you fantasize about raping people in bathrooms? Because bathrooms are places normal people piss and shit.
I don't fantasize, Tony, I simply know scientific facts: biological women are at significant risk of getting raped by biological men. That's not "gender roles", that's mammalian biology.
The cultural, social, and legal response to that is to separate biological men and women in areas where nudity may occur. This is common across all cultures.
I'm cool if you want to believe that, but I personally believe in freedom, so if a trans woman is more comfortable using a woman's-designated bathroom, that seems, if anything, more natural than the alternative. Again I've seen you idiots bitch about a trans woman using a men's bathroom too, so you'll forgive me if I mistake your truly deep concern for women's safety for a childish cognitive dissonance implicating clothing and hair style.
Can you cite a single instance of a man pretending to be a trans woman raping a woman in a women's public restroom, by any chance?
Women's bathrooms exist for the protection and comfort of biological females. The comfort of biological males doesn't enter into their existence.
I couldn't care less about trans "women" using a men's bathroom
https://www.foxnews.com/media/oklahoma-transgender-student-charged-assaulting-female-high-school-classmates-bathroom
Here, Tony, since you're too stupid to search for it.
https://nypost.com/2022/01/20/loudoun-county-schools-boss-axed-over-transgender-scandal-reports/
The case involved a then-14-year-old skirt-wearing boy who attacked a 15-year-old girl in a school bathroom in May — but was allowed to transfer to a neighboring school, where he struck again.
Then I expect you not to force me to use improper pronouns nor pay for someone else's cosmetic surgery.
You’ll still be forced to bake a cake for that gender transition reveal party though.
When my wife gave birth to my child, she was playing a role, only acting based on recently conceived gender "norms".
When my daughter got her period, she was only acting, playing a part placed upon her head by the patriarchy!
Trans people are not expecting to be able to change whether they can give birth or have periods. Again, the only confusion here is on your part.
No dude, the confusion is on your part.
Why are medical schools teaching non biological gender care then? Why are men suing for not getting things like female exams?
The logistics are simple: if you have a penis, you are not permitted in the bathroom (or prison) for people with vaginas. It doesn't matter how you identify.
The presence or absence of a penis, and the propensity for rape, are not "gender roles", they are biological.
The funny thing is that we have a built-in solution - a large number of recently built commercial buildings and schools and assembly spaces already have a gender-neutral (unisex) 'family assist' restroom that is accessibility code compliant, located adjacent to the multi-user gendered restrooms.
Generally speaking, that restroom accounts for approximately 5% of the toilet fixtures provided in a project, so it should be more than adequate to accommodate the ~1% of people who are trans. But, for some reason, the trans-activists and the Democrat lawmakers refuse to accept this as a solution. Is it because it doesn't affirm their delusions?
"Lack of access to toilets effectively tied women to their homes, putting them on a leash as long as their bladder capacity."
https://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/discover/womens-right-work-toilet-bathroom-victorian-london-wwi-factory-protest
what do you want the government to do to trans people?
I want the government to treat all men and women equally.
If by "incredibly recent", you mean "the past three hundred years", yes. Before that, women simply didn't use public bathrooms at all.
The reason for separate bathrooms for women is that women are at high risk of rape from persons with penises.
I want government to do nothing "to trans people". If you are an adult and want to undergo "sex change surgery" or "become Korean" at your own expense, go right ahead.
But if you have a penis, you should not be permitted in a bathroom or prison for people with vaginas. And if you have anything other than XX chromosomes and a normal endocrine system, you should not be permitted on a "woman's" sports team. Notice that your gender or preferences or anything else are irrelevant to those issues.
So you want the government to punish people for using the "wrong" bathrooms. Can you cite one instance of a man raping a woman in a woman's public restroom, by any chance?
Happened in a Loudon County, Virginia school in 2021. It was covered by various media outlets including Reason.
There are many examples outside of that as well.
He only asked for one to which one was provided. Providing more than one would play into a goalpost shift. Looks like he’s using the standard “it isn’t happening” before he will transition to the “it is not what you think” etc.
'here's why bathroom rape is a good thing'
Correct: I want government to punish people for trespassing.
Oklahoma transgender student charged with assaulting female high school classmates in bathroom
https://www.foxnews.com/media/oklahoma-transgender-student-charged-assaulting-female-high-school-classmates-bathroom
https://nypost.com/2022/01/20/loudoun-county-schools-boss-axed-over-transgender-scandal-reports/
The case involved a then-14-year-old skirt-wearing boy who attacked a 15-year-old girl in a school bathroom in May — but was allowed to transfer to a neighboring school, where he struck again.
So by this standard of risk management, no Republican or priest should even be allowed to leave their home.
What with all the Republicans and priests who have raped children, and all.
You mean like all the teachers' union folks in public schools who have?
https://www.foxnews.com/us/chicago-schools-watchdog-finds-hundreds-employees-groomed-sexually-assaulted-students
Hundreds of Chicago teachers and school officials sexually groomed and sexually assaulted students or engaged in policy violations over the past four years, according to a report released this week.
Unionized public school employees don’t assault students, they make love to them.
The rate of sexual abuse by Republicans and priests is lower than by progressives and public school teachers.
Furthermore, creating small, private safe spaces for women is very different from prohibiting people from entering public spaces.
""no Republican or priest should even be allowed to leave their home.""
All the democrat pedophiles in Hollywood and Epstein's plane and/or island gets a pass.
You're trying to pretend there is no difference between private and public...
Step #1) WHO owns the Public restrooms?
Step #2) WHO gets to decide the rules of those "Public restrooms"?
Not even 1/2 the comments up your praising the "democratic society" and now here you are trying to flabbergast the democracy out of your Individual Freedom...
This is what Leftards do... Constantly trying to pretend their Individual Liberty grants them the POWER to set the RULES for everyone... They're completely consumed with POWER-MAD cow disease.
If you want your City (Public Owned) restrooms non-gender then get the votes for it. That in no way gives your City-Guns any authority to start demanding PRIVATELY owned restrooms do the same.
"No, Tony, as a gay man"
Noooooooo, Tony wanted to be the only gay in the village. Now how will he call you a homophobic bigot when you disagree.
Ml, this might be the dumbest thing you ever typed.
Why do you think Tony cares about logic and reality?
He may not care about logic and reality but he's desperate to feel special.
Tony's not gay, he's trans.
Tony's trans all right, trans-intelligent.
Monkeypox vulnerable
There are only two sexes. But there are multiple genders.
Sex = the biology one is born with
Gender = the social conventions one chooses to adopt
Actually, since gender is a linguistic concept, there are a total of three: masculine, feminine, and neuter, and that varies by language. Some, like English only have one currently (neuter). Some, like Spanish, have two (masculine and feminine).
So gender is like fashion or preferences in music or fashion?
Fine, get rid of the Best Actress category and just give one award to the best actor regardless of gender. Or let's just bring back the old Shakespearean tradition of having boys or effeminate men play female characters. Problem solved.
Somehow I suspect these gender confused twats won't like either of those solutions and some will quickly realize that they really were women all along.
The fact that boys played women on stage in Shakespeare's day should make you realize how fluid indeed the concept of gender really is. It's probably safe to say that 20th century America was extremist in its enforcement of gender norms. Many, many cultures accepted gender fluidity, not least Elizabethan England, as you yourself have noted.
You must realize that the gender roles you were taught as a young child are extremely strict, a product of some unholy amalgam of Puritan religion and Hollywood.
The culture you live in is extremely specific and would be considered alien and bizarre by most cultures that have ever existed. These are all things we are taught, not things that exist in nature unchanging. Anything you were taught is arbitrary, and that's most things you believe.
"The fact that boys played women on stage in Shakespeare’s day should make you realize how fluid indeed the concept of gender really is."
The opposite is true.
Boys played women because Shakespearean England's gender roles were incredibly strict. No actual women allowed on stage.
And we all consider that a desperate attempt to maintain gender roles for it to result in such absurdities as boys playing women on stage. Is that the natural order you prefer? Or do you see it as bizarre and culturally specific and arbitrary, not to mention wrong?
Audience members were able to suspend disbelief and see boys as women in a way that wouldn't work for us today. Cultures across the globe bent gender in surprising and multifaceted ways.
All this is about is the hegemony of Abrahamic strictures and you, with your tiny little mind, conflating your arbitrary and specific cultural inheritance with nature.
This should be easy most of all for us, as people who believe most in the value of freedom.
Is Tony generated by AI?
No, even AI isn't that fucking stupid.
Tony has no intelligence, artificial or otherwise.
You're free to bend your gender any way you like. But if you have a penis, you are not welcome in spaces for people with vaginas. And you are not free to dictate to others what pronouns they use.
Atheist socialist countries have historically been very strict on gender roles. So, for that matter, are most other religions.
"Is that the natural order you prefer?"
Hold up.
You just blatantly lied about the motivations for boys acting on stage in female roles in Elizabethan England, and when I called you out, you decided to blame me for advocating it?
Wow, you're a psychopath.
The fact that boys played women on stage in Shakespeare’s day should make you realize how fluid indeed the concept of gender really is.
JFC you're stupid on toast.
What a maroon. You could have learned ML's point from a very easy google search. But nice take. Keep clowning.
You do realize that women were not allowed on stage in Shakespeare's time, don't you? Therefore, they had to use men to play the parts.
But the concept of "having a penis" is not at all fluid. In Elizabethan England, if you had a penis and were found with a woman, the fact that you were wearing women's clothing wouldn't help you.
Wouldn't help you with what?
We're discussing the political order of the United States in 2023. What do you want the government to do to trans people?
With accusations of rape and adultery.
I want government to do nothing to trans people. I simply want publicly owned facilities like prisons and toilets to be segregated on the basis of actual anatomy. And I want everybody else to be free to discriminate and use language based on anatomy, appearance, gender, etc. in whatever way they like.
So you want the government to inspect people's anatomy before they're allowed to use the bathroom?
Like any other form of trespassing, you only get prosecuted if people notice and complain.
If you manage to pass for a woman and nobody ever notices, you're breaking the law but you're getting away with it.
If you pull out a penis in a woman's bathroom and a woman calls the police, you'll get prosecuted.
Also, if you get arrested for some other reason in a woman's bathroom (e.g., disorderly conduct), this would be an additional charge.
I'm for private bathrooms. Let's fix both your ridiculous, childish, hysterical, whiny complaint as well as my own, that I hate to shit when other people are in the room.
Goalpost shift followed by a chaff & redirect with an ad hominem tossed in there.
No wonder Di strikes me as extra pouty in the current season
They're out there.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/former-national-intelligence-director-john-ratcliffe-sounds-alarm-over-new-ufo-report
Former Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe warned during a Fox News interview over the weekend that a new UFO report released by the government showed an increase in unexplained sightings while containing one major glaring issue.
Number 6 will surprise you!
Have there been transgender UFO sightings?
Kinda?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Live
More Biden documents.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/comer-says-we-dont-know-exactly-yet-whether-biden-broke-law-accuses-biden-team-of-withholding-info-for-political-reasons
“Remember, they were quick to call for a special counsel prior to the midterm elections, and Joe Biden used as his closing argument during the midterm elections that Republicans were a threat to democracy, and he cited the fact that President Trump mishandled the documents,” Comer told Tapper. “While he was doing this, he knew very well that he himself had possession of classified documents. So, the hypocrisy here is great.”
I disagree that Biden knew he had documents. I doubt Biden can remember he's the President on a lot of days.
Internal Donkey Split?
https://www.dailywire.com/news/chuck-schumer-spars-with-cnn-hosts-over-biden-classified-document-scandal-for-gods-sake
CNN’s Don Lemon pushed Schumer over reports that indicated that the administration gave “misleading statements” that have now “created the impression that Biden’s team has something to hide.”
Is that like a donkey show?
Less interesting.
Yes, but Pelosi is the one with the ping-pong balls.
Gee, thanks. Now I can never play ping-ping again.
It’s more like Jackass except the humor is unintentional
Schumer is in on the Brandon Replacement Plan and the media is not yet
Article, "HEY LOOKIE over there A UNICORN!".....
I think the 'real' thing being shown here is Democrats ability to be witch-hunters...
But, but, but; Our spice cabinet isn't used for witchcraft! Hey look, A unicorn! /s
It seems that, thanks to Edward Snowden, foreign adversaries of the US know more US secrets than US citizens do. What's so important to be kept secret that he didn't already hand them on a silver platter? We're building more advanced bomb planes? Shock.
As a libertarian my default position is that there better be a damn good reason for my own government to hide its information from me.
And to think, without the zombielike unthinking servitude to the idea of government secrets and the supposed cosmic import thereof, Donald Trump would never have disgraced this planet with his presidency. The irony is of course that, as I said, Russia, his patron, already has all our secrets.
WTF?
Once again proof that if you have to start with "as a libertarian" you are not one. Mike does the same.
Note he never has to start a stement with "as a flaming bag of dog crap"
Tony may believe that ENB <3 him too.
I distinctly remember that, not too long ago, Tony would NEVER claim to be a libertarian and was upfront about being leftist. Why the shift?
Christopher Steele agrees.
If you're a libertarian then so is Xi Jinping.
Given what we've been getting out of the Reason staff the last couple of years, Tony may be the most libertarian among us.
ENB playing the “The commentariat are all Mean Girls” card.
Let’s all signal our clique affiliation by bashing Reason!
2) I’m a libertarian and ENB <3 me.
“I’m libertarian and so’s my wife!”
—Nicolae Ceausescu
You’re about as libertarian as Joe Biden or Lindsey Graham.
Aye.
""It seems that, thanks to Edward Snowden, foreign adversaries of the US know more US secrets than US citizens do.""
A lot of what Snowden clued us about was domestic spying.
Tuccille's narrative conveniently failed to acknowledge that sitting Presidents have the Constitutional authority to declassify any federal document that was marked as Classified or Top Secret during his presidency, but sitting VPs, retired VPs and current Presidents have no legal authority to possess (or share with others) any document that was classified by a previous administration.
So while Trump had the Constitutional authority to declassify and/all of the classified documents he took to Florida when he left office, Biden never had/has any legal right to possess, transport or share with others those documents for the past 6 years.
He may have had the authority, but did he exercise it? Is Trump a time traveler?
How retarded are you, Tony?
Very
FJB seems to have ther authority to pardon himself.
Love to see the blowback on that!
He can pardon himself but instead usually just stays put and shits his pants.
I find it hard to believe a president cannot declassify something classified by a previous president.
A President can even re-classify something that was declassified by a previous President.
Thing is, it only counts if you make some record of the document’s change in status, even if you are the President.
I get that concept, however, unless there are written rules about what a president must do to declassify exists, then the power is vague, and the president can do pretty much what they want.
Show me the rules about presidential declassification then I might agree.
Did Obama declassify them would be the question than? If O comes out and says I declassified everything Joe had, he'll be fine (hell, he and Trump will be fine no matter what).
Christ, Trump illegally confiscated landlords' property, Obama paid insurers out of the treasury for OCare and nothing happened.
Winston Churchill And Democracy
“Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.” -H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)
Contrary to a common misunderstanding, the Founding Fathers of these United States viewed democracy and its extremes as an obscenity. Those extremes we are witnessing today as this nation on fire fragments and declines. Understanding Churchill, the man, opens a door to understanding these United States today.
“Many forms of Government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time . . . .” -Winston Churchill, House of Commons (11NOV1947)
Churchill, Sir Winston Leonard Spencer (1874-1965): statesman, British Prime Minister (1940-1945, 1951-1955)
To many, Winston Churchill represents the personification of democracy. In its name, he even sacrificed his nation by pursuing war against Germanic Fascism in the form of Adolf Hitler and his Nazis. Consider the following:
Contrary to the common depiction of him, Churchill was a man who never met a war he didn’t like. From early in his long political career, Churchill was a man lowly trusted by his fellow politicians but highly distrusted. Why?
During World War I, for example, it was his attack at Gallipoli against Turkey. The consequence was the bloodiest carnage of the war until that time, ending in defeat.
During World War II, it was his attack against Italy. The consequence was the Southern Front of the Wehrmacht being the only front still capable of fighting when the carnage ended in 1945. It proved to be the campaign with the most casualties of the entire war for Americans and British.
His tactical mistakes notwithstanding, more misplaced was his overall strategy. Churchill’s long-held, primary, targeted goal was to have maintained the British Empire intact. He failed.
To understand Churchill’s failure requires understanding the ABC’s as described by Biobehavioral Science. Few Americans do. Churchill’s behavior illustrates the validity of this scientifically-documented concept.
https://www.nationonfire.com/winston-churchill/ .
It would be nice if Trump and Biden could be locked up in adjacent cells.
It would be nice if you and Biden share a cell.
Biden could spoon him on boaf sidez of the cell.
on the plus side might now be precedent for an uncleared VP with no ability to declassify documents
With Classified Documents, the Real Divide Is Between the Powerful and the Rest of Us
*squawk*POPULISM*squawk*POPULISM!
“sentenced today to five years and three months in prison for removing classified national defense material from a government facility and mailing it to a news outlet”
I wonder whether the last part might have something to do with the harsher penalties.
Nah, it's totes the same as showing your girlfriend some classified stuff in secret to try to impress her.
Swawel nods in approval
My longtime usenet ally, Chrtistopher Charles Morton, once wrote that he had handled SCI, and if he did so the sdame way Sandy Berger did, he would still be in prison (and he would have died in prison).
Nevertheless, anyone who calls themselves "Reality Winner" deserves to be in jail.
What if your parents gave you the name, “Reality”, as is the case with Reality Winner. Still deserve to be in jail because of the name your parents gave you?
Not surprisingly, most of the fugazs are taking the day off today, because when their loved ones, friends, and neighbors in the federal gubbermint don't work, generally speaking THEY don't work either, no matter how trifling the holiday.
So this seems like as good a time as any to remind everyone once again that any high volume lefty commenters who are also taking the day off are doing so because they themselves are fugazis, aka Reason staff sockpuppets.
Jeffy, Liarson, and Tony are all here. Don't see any squirrels...
Paging M4E...
M4E to the white courtesy phone...
There are others as well.
Do I hear goose stepping jackboots approaching? Dammit guys, y’all just summoned Herr Misek—and it’s WAY too early for SPRINGTIME!
Jeffy, Liarson, and Tony are all here
...lending credence to the theory that they're bots.
Paid agents seems more likely
https://twitter.com/KanekoaTheGreat/status/1615034703521931264?t=5JI0CW-3cqT6dai7ucCELg&s=19
Street signs in Washington DC
[Pic]
Which ones do you disagree with?
My preferred street signs would say, "Stop sterilizing gay kids"
Tony's preferred street sign would say, "For a good time, call Tony".
“No Front Deliveries, Enter In Rear”
“Not just an exit”
The one that refers to the "white supremacy" conspiracy theory.
Planned Parenthood disagrees with all of them.
Must be a lot of white supremacists in the low-income areas of DC if they rate their own sign.
https://twitter.com/JonathanTurley/status/1614973766362185729?t=M3SS30mdfT0iRzQu2nteYQ&s=19
Biden did not use security officers or the FBI to conduct further searches. The president has a host of people who regularly handle classified material. So why use the lawyers? The answer appears the same as in the case of Hillary Clinton’s emails: control.
...The fourth discovery raised another question. It would seem unlikely a document with a proper classified cover could be missed. The folder has thick colored borders running around the edges and large black classifications like “TOP SECRET” emblazoned across the top...
...If that was missed, the earlier searches were clearly negligent. Alternatively, the internal documents might have been removed from the folders and stored without cover. That would indicate someone removed and reviewed them — an act showing knowledge of the classified status.
[Link]
https://twitter.com/lhfang/status/1615008625575202818?t=p9kudLV1AisDKljm7SByLw&s=19
1. New piece from the TWITTER FILES.
How the pharmaceutical industry lobbied social media to shape content around vaccine policy.
The push included direct pressure from Pfizer partner BioNTech to censor activists demanding low-cost generic vaccines for low-income countries.
[Thread]
Pro-Trump counties now have far higher COVID death rates. Misinformation is to blame.
You should read the warning from the study's own abstract.
It must be buried somewhere beneath all of the reporting about how Republicans are dying in statistically significantly higher rates than Democrats because of all the lies they believe about a communicable disease.
Are you still wearing a mask everywhere? You said it was not an inconvenience and just Normal hygiene.
Tony's wearing one made of cling wrap over both his mouth and nose. That would best explain his comments here.
I blame his diminutive hypothalamus.
It is actually at the bottom of the abstract. Where they admit their data is shit and shouldn't be used to infer any political inference. They don't identify deaths by party.
It also must be inconvenient how Wapo, CDC, and Wen have all admitted covid death numbers are inflated by 30-60% last week. Making the study even more useless.
"It must be buried somewhere beneath all of the reporting about how Republicans are dying in statistically significantly higher rates than Democrats because of all the lies they believe about a communicable disease."
Take a look here, shit-for-brains, instead of cherry-picking:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPbCA5hiEfM&t=20s
Ha ha. Sounds true, but I doubt it's statistically significant.
ScIeNcE!
Is "misinformation" to blame when people die on their motorcycles or in sky diving accidents or get HIV infections?
People deliberately make risky choices for all sorts of reasons.
The risk of dying from COVID is low enough that many people prefer to take that risk rather than get vaccinated.
LMAO…. According to a “Misinformation” study done by NPR (Leftard Media) propaganda.
Even if it wasn’t just BS… What does it really matter to your ‘ilk’ anyways? You are ALL more than welcome to get vaccinated and protect yourselves. Oh yeah; That’s right… It’s about using Gov-Guns and FORCING everyone to do as you want them to. Something about being Pro-Choice or is that just a whole lot of more BS?
". Some counties that have reported no COVID-19 deaths since May 1 may have stopped reporting. These counties generally have very small populations and have a negligible impact on the weighted averages. Erring on the side of caution, we include all data unless it is known that they are in error."
They left out "And we're not going to bother to see if they are in error, since it supports our beliefs."
"COVID-19 deaths per 100,000 residents are calculated by dividing the deaths from COVID-19 in a county since May 1 by the county's population. County population data come from the U.S. Census Bureau's 2020 decennial census. May 1 was chosen as the start date of our analysis because that is roughly the time when vaccines became universally available to adults ages 18 and older. COVID-19 death data is collected by the Center for Systems Science and Engineering (CSSE) at Johns Hopkins University and is current as of Nov. 30. COVID-19 death data for Florida and Utah are from the May 2 and December 1 editions of the COVID-19 Community Profile Report, produced by the White House COVID-19 Team.
2020 election result data are from MIT Election Data and Science Lab."
Since most of the data is from 2020, how does mRNA injection "misinformation" even play a part? The "vaccination" campaigns didn't start until the following year.
Am I missing something? Even blatant propaganda is less obvious. It's like they don't expect people to remember past the last news cycle.
Shit-for-brains:
"Pro-Trump counties now have far higher COVID death rates. Misinformation is to blame."
"Being unvaccinated increases the risk of death from COVID-19 dramatically, according to the CDC....
Published 12/5/2021
Shit-for-brains is probably not familiar with the abbreviation OBE; "Overtaken By Events".
https://twitter.com/JoshWalkos/status/1615000161583005696?t=Nam8YUqmh1PxOTurDrcuNA&s=19
Mega Thread: The WHO, FDA, CDC & Gardasil
While poking around The WHO website I came across a document entitled:
“Vaccine Crisis Communication Manual: A Step by Step Guidance for National Immunization Programs”
It’s essentially a communications plan for when the shit hits the fan at varying levels and how all “stakeholders” will sing the same tune in unison.
It’s a very instructive read in light of recent events you might have heard of.
Here is how they describe the guide:
[Link, thread]
https://twitter.com/JigokuCake/status/1614776181492158471?t=4h0KxxnuEmpkYEp_vhqYzQ&s=19
New theory among Leftists is that Hollywood is secretly making shows that share their ideology suck on purpose in order to make them look bad by association.
[Link]
That is pretty hilarious.
I love the comments on that thread.
Anyone on the Reason staff who voted for Joe Biden voted for exactly what Tuccile is crying about- a return to "normalcy," in which powerful people have privileges the rest of us don't have.
Snowden is fucking idiot. Comparing Trump to a whistleblower is absurd. Donald Trump was president, he didn't "abscond", Biden and the whistleblower were not.
https://twitter.com/AP/status/1614978365567500288?t=2Q-PiAQRgfWxULT1KWk1jw&s=19
The World Economic Forum, which opens Monday, is slated to take on pressing global issues. But online, it has become a target of bizarre claims from a growing chorus who believe it involves a group of elites manipulating events for their own benefit.
[Link]
bizarre claims
Are they really? Are you sure?
"a target of bizarre claims from a growing chorus who believe it involves a group of elites manipulating events for their own benefit."
Dems and Progressives constantly tell us billionaires are evil people that are only out for themselves, to crush the little guy/gal.
WEF - the largest gathering of billionaires and they're government lackeys.
Try harder AP news.
https://twitter.com/TheChiefNerd/status/1614994687303073793?t=x1ixt9Pqri85GUHCMvC_mg&s=19
CNN: “The world has too many people”
Also CNN: “Here, take this injection”
[Link]
The world has too many people and none of them are watching CNN.
The world has too many people
But they should all totally move to the US
JFC, it seems like half the damn thread is Tony posting stupid, idiotic shit and the replies/debunking of such idiotic shit.
It is almost as if Reason pays him to shitpost ensuring the number of visits is a high value. Akin to the “heel” character in professional wrestling. Paying fans feel they got their money’s worth when the “face” beats the shit out of the heel.
"...It is almost as if Reason pays him to shitpost ensuring the number of visits is a high value. Akin to the “heel” character in professional wrestling. Paying fans feel they got their money’s worth when the “face” beats the shit out of the heel..."
Doubt shit-for-brains needs payment to prove himself an asshole; likely the assumption of being a gay "victim" is sufficient for the asshole to continue lying here.
Sigh. Just block him already. He's beyond help. I mean, God might be able to help him, but the rest of us are wasting our time.
Block all the 50 centers. Stop encouraging them.
Don't block Tony. He's good practice. You can't convince him, and his arguments have thought behind them. Most importantly he doesn't resort to personal attacks, unlike the folks I mute.
his arguments have thought behind them
There is literally no evidence of this.
I've been dealing with the guy for over a decade. As I said, he's good practice. He's helped me to understand mind of the leftist.
He’s helped me to understand mind of the leftist.
If you needed him to do that, you live in a bubble.
If you, then you.. Thought we were talking about Tony.
You used him to describe your own understanding.
If you want the conversation to not be about you, don't mention yourself.
That’s how you guys work? Alright.
Edit: If I don’t want to be trolled, don’t give any personal information. Because the trolls will swarm and shit like pigeons on a retard with a loaf of bread. Note to self: don’t be a retard and the rats with wings won’t coat you in shit like a statue.
Poor sarc.
This is basic internet behavior. You should have learned that a long time ago.
Correct. Providing personal info opens one up to ridicule.
"Correct. Providing personal info opens one up to ridicule."
Admitting you're a drunk (as has Tony and Sarc) or someone with a coke problem (like turd) really doesn't help.
Every year I have to endure training on the handling of sensitive information, even though I don't have a clearance. One thing it makes clear is that carelessness isn't an excuse.
Which is an interesting point in this moment.
We have one person who has a legitimate legal dispute about final custody of some documents that everyone knew exactly where they were and were always secured.
We have another who, if you take him at his word had no idea at all where he put classified documents or even what classified documents he had. He has no argument at all that he was authorized to keep any of the documents (not just the classified ones).
So... Based on your training... Which one is in more hot water. Dude who has no clue what he did with documents that he never had any right to keep at all, or dude who was using a legal process to resolve a dispute over final disposition?
ROFLMAO, look at who decided to pop in late just to try to make it look like she was actually working today. Holy crap, that is so freaking hilarious
Which one is Tony's?
https://twitter.com/ClownWorld_/status/1615056992049172480
Strangely, in this particular incident, Tony is on the right.
Need some pull quotes to get me to click on that link.
No quotes, just a video of some effete blue-haired alphabet cultists barking like dogs at some trads. The way they're brandishing their alphabet flag tells me their probably mad at the Trads for being "transphobic" or something.
Anyway, that dinosaur meteor needs to come round again.
That's a great point.
Most of us here (rightfully) do not trivialize something like the Twitter Files or private companies censoring their own products by reasoning that “the government is worse because they can actually put you in jail.” The same can be said about Trump, Biden, and Reality Winner. Ultimately these things aren’t mutually exclusive.
You can’t so easily dismiss the political double standard and witch hunt unfolding before our eyes by deflecting to the suffering of the ordinary citizen. The government lies to make target out of the small fry everyday, and these people don’t have Trump’s money and clout. That doesn’t take away from the dangers of a political party using the investigative unit of the government and private corporations to target disfavored public figures.
Remember, nothing against Trump has been proven, and no convincing evidence came to light. Hillary Clinton actually did have classified material on an unsecured server. James Comey invented an “criminal intent” standard on the fly to spare Clinton, while Reality Winner got full prison term. The democrats would resist abiding by that standard on Trump, and would definitely drop it against a regular Joe. Trump is more in Reality Winner's camp than Biden ever will be.
There is some divide between the privileged and the non privileged. But the a bigger and more grave divide is between those favored by the American left and those who are not. And that transcends race, class, and gender lines. If you are black trans non binary being and you don’t personally mind biological males not playing in girls team, you will be treated by the left almost exactly they treat Donald Trump.
Wow, Reason just exposed what has been obvious to the rest of us for DECADES. Well, at least they finally woke up!
The situation Tuccille describes is certainly unacceptable. And I'll certainly agree that the treatment of Ms. Winner is wrong and deserves correction. But, going from that injustice (and I agree; it is an injustice) to the article's thesis, that classification is wielded as a non-partisan weapon against the relatively powerless, doesn't follow. Classification can be wielded both against the relatively powerless and the (mostly progressive) regime's political enemies. In fact, it mostly stands to reason that it would. The unequal treatment of Mr. Trump and Mr. Biden isn't somehow negated by the fact that Mr. Trump did not face as severe consequences as Ms. Winner. It's just that Reason supported the particular treatment of Mr. Trump.
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The story's opening statement is untrue. President Trump had sensitive documents, and Vice President Biden had stolen them from the Obama Administration for more than 6 years. Trump was the president, whereas Biden is merely a federal government employee (like the mailman). "The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America", not the President & Vice President, according to Article 2 Sect. 1 of the Constitution. Biden stealing classified material is therefore no different from an intern possessing classified material for more than five years in three distinct locations.
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By the way, I find it hilarious that Reason takes every federal holiday off.
Happy MLK Day, AWFLs!
How do they act differently on days off? More casual pajamas? Not slaving over a hot keyboard or phone screen?
They kicked off the week with more ‘both sides’ bullshit to cover for their befuddled buffoon Biden.
I was hoping for an article on whether abortion disproportionately affects PoCs.
Johnny Appleseed vs Orange Man?
Fewer posts about Mexicans, weed, and butt-sex.
No Roundup/links and fewer posts.
As long as the few articles provide food for thought, I can trick with that.
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I was hoping for another one of Scott's libertarian arguments for preschool lapdances.
Or spb posting a link to preschool lapdances then deleting it, being banned, but the staff lacking the courage and integrity to permanently remove 'him?' Because, that could never happen. I've been travelling. And just like when I was still in uniform, and got back to the shitty lefty hipster burg where my civilian buddies lived, to find nothing and nobody had changed, going to bet same old same old. Still not libertarian in name only. Trolls pretending social media rules apply to reality. Lackwits who just read a 150 word piece about a thing telling folks how that thing works. The commenters crying bad faith being the ones who never made a fucking good faith anything once in their damned life. Am I close?
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