An Abject Apology Highlights the Legal Exposure for Promoters of Trump's Election Fraud Fantasies

American Thinker says its claims about Dominion Voting Systems were "completely false."


American Thinker has unreservedly apologized to Dominion Voting Systems for publishing "completely false" statements about the company's involvement in an imaginary anti-Trump plot that supposedly delivered a phony victory to President-elect Joe Biden. The conservative website, one of several right-wing outlets that promoted the wacky conspiracy theory, was responding to a letter in which Dominion demanded a retraction and threatened to sue for defamation if one was not forthcoming.

"American Thinker and contributors Andrea Widburg, R.D. Wedge, Brian Tomlinson, and Peggy Ryan have published pieces…that falsely accuse [Dominion] of conspiring to steal the November 2020 election from Donald Trump," says a statement that Thomas Lifson, the website's editor and publisher, posted on Friday. It continues:

These pieces rely on discredited sources who have peddled debunked theories about Dominion's supposed ties to Venezuela, fraud on Dominion's machines that resulted in massive vote switching or weighted votes, and other claims falsely stating that there is credible evidence that Dominion acted fraudulently.

These statements are completely false and have no basis in fact. Industry experts and public officials alike have confirmed that Dominion conducted itself appropriately and that there is simply no evidence to support these claims.

It was wrong for us to publish these false statements. We apologize to Dominion for all of the harm this caused them and their employees. We also apologize to our readers for abandoning 9 journalistic principles and misrepresenting Dominion's track record and its limited role in tabulating votes for the November 2020 election. We regret this grave error.

Lifson notes that "we received a lengthy letter from Dominion's defamation lawyers explaining why they believe that their client has been the victim of defamatory statements." Former Trump campaign lawyer Sidney Powell, a conspicuous promoter of the "completely false" story about fraud-facilitating software that supposedly changed Trump votes to Biden votes, received a similar letter from Dominion on December 16. Four days later, Powell tweeted that she was "retracting nothing," because "we have #evidence" that the people running the company are "#fraud masters." On January 8, Dominion sued Powell for defamation in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, seeking $1.3 billion in compensatory and punitive damages.

Powell also has been sued by Dominion executive Eric Coomer, who figures prominently in her conspiracy theory, which alleges that he participated in "an antifa conference call" in late September or early October, during which he supposedly bragged that "Trump is not gonna win" because "I made fucking sure of that." The defendants in Coomer's lawsuit, which he filed in Denver County District Court on December 22, also include conservative activist Joseph Oltmann (who claimed to have "infiltrated" that alleged conference call), Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani, Conservative Daily, The Gateway Pundit, Newsmax, One America News Network, OANN White House correspondent Chanel Rion, Gateway Pundit owner Jim Hoft, blogger Michelle Malkin, and radio host Eric Metaxas.

The most prominent promoter of conspiracy theories involving Dominion, of course, is President Donald Trump, whom the company has not yet sued for defamation. In the 1982 case Nixon v. Fitzgerald, the Supreme Court ruled that presidents have "absolute immunity" from civil (but not criminal) liability based on their "official acts." Trump's liability for damage to Dominion's reputation therefore would seem to hinge on whether his wild claims about Dominion count as "official acts."

In 2019, Elle magazine columnist E. Jean Carroll, who has publicly accused Trump of raping her in the mid-1990s, sued him for defamation because he falsely denied knowing her and implied that she had invented the incident. A federal judge in Manhattan last year ruled that Trump's statements about Carroll, which he made while he was president, "were not within the scope of his employment," which implies that he is not entitled to immunity from her lawsuit under Nixon or the Federal Tort Claims Act. The Justice Department recently asked the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit to reverse that decision.

Pro-Trump attorneys like Powell, Giuliani, and Lin Wood are shielded from liability for defamation based on statements they have made in court on behalf of their clients. But "the litigation privilege doesn't cover all out-of-court statements," says UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh, a First Amendment specialist, although "in many states the fair report privilege does cover lawyers' public discussion of claims made in their lawsuits." The extent of that privilege varies from state to state, Volokh says, and it is not yet clear which state's standard would apply to the lawsuits filed by Dominion and Coomer, since "this whole 'choice of law' question is itself quite complicated."

The legal exposure for media outlets and journalists is not complicated by the litigation privilege. Assuming that Dominion and its executives qualify as "public figures," the plaintiffs would have to show that the non-lawyer defendants acted with "actual malice," meaning they knew their defamatory statements were false or published them with "reckless disregard" for their accuracy. That standard, Dominion and Coomer argue, is easily met in this case, since the defendants made highly implausible claims that were not supported by credible evidence and were contradicted by multiple authoritative sources, such as the "industry experts and public officials" cited in American Thinker's retraction.

Newsmax and Fox News have aired corrective reports debunking election conspiracy theories amplified by some of their employees. Both outlets have received demand letters from Dominion and Smartmatic, another company that figures in the fantasy peddled by Trump, Powell, Giuliani, and Wood.

NEXT: The Armed March That Wasn't

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  1. Pretty dumb state laws that shield attorneys from defamation simply because they file a lawsuit. Just what we need: laws that create more incentives to file bogus lawsuits.

    1. The stupidest thing about Sullum’s gloat above is where he insinuates that American Thinker wrote the apology, instead of just posting what Soros’s lawyers gave them.

      Notice that Sullum hasn’t mentioned that only the magazine posted the statement, and all the writers involved disagree with it.

      What a hack.

      1. Anti-semites gotta anti-semite, I guess. Why else would someone bring up George Soros in a discussion that has nothing to do with George Soros?

        1. Soros helped nazis take property from jews in Hungary.

          Collaborator is what they used to call people like that.

          Nazis are lefties and work together sometimes to take down countries that fight for freedoms.

          1. My stepgrandfather was captured at the Battle of the Bulge and was forced to build railroads for the Nazis. Is he a collaborator, too?

            1. He was a POW dummy.

              Additionally, forcing POWs to work which helps the war effort is against the Geneva convention.

              The Convention lists in detail the types of work a prisoner of war may be compelled to perform, “besides work connected with camp administration, installation or maintenance”.[2] This list builds upon the general prohibition found in the 1929 Geneva Convention Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War that “work done by prisoners of war shall have no direct connection with the operations of the war”.[3] In addition, the Third Geneva Convention provides that “unless he be a volunteer, no prisoner of war may be employed on labour which is of an unhealthy or dangerous nature. No prisoner of war shall be assigned to labour which would be looked upon as humiliating for a member of the Detaining Power’s own forces.

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                1. The real problem, is the people working in government are all democrats milking the teat of America dry while, quite possibly, colluding with far left wing commie pinko tyrants like that fat bitch - what's her name? Stacy Abrams. Marxist for racism - ibram kendi race hustling worshipper. She spent years claiming the election was stolen from her, then complained incessantly about Trump not conceding the election. Stacy's sister is the judge that dismissed Trump's lawsuit without even a glance or a thought of recusing herself. The elections are never going to be secure as long as those handling the machines that print ballots are democrats, those counting the votes are democrats, those delivering the ballots are democrats. Those installing the software on the machines that count the ballots are democrats.

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          2. You are wrong on so many levels. For one thing that claim is unsubstantiated and I’d go as far to say outright false. Second NAZIS were hard right authoritarian fascists whom were also extremely racist and prejudiced.

            1. Nazis were socialists. It’s in the name. They had socialist policies and had government directly controlling everything, or by proxy. It was largely a command economy. The Nazi rivalry with the communists wasn’t about how things would be run, just who would run it all.

              Fascism is just another bastard child of Marx. And make no mistake, it is hard LEFT authoritarianism. It is what you are.

              Own your evil.

            2. Socialists (communism lite) and communism are "authoritarian" too. What is the difference between fascists' and socialists anyway? Barely anything at all! Socialists and fascists' have a commonality - their love of all encompassing government rule over all aspects of your life. So who gives a flying fuck! People didn't like Donald Trump and said he was a fascist, and proud boys fascist and all that dumb shit. However, there was never any power grab. Trump worked within the confines of the system. But we all know how much the left are offended by something as mundane as "America First." But Fuck it! Whatever! Now we have Socialists, borderline straight up communists (Google "Harris equity vs equality) with actual power grab policies: And none you reason libtard fucks are the wiser. They are going to force ass loads of healthcare down your throat while taking all your fucking money regardless of how much you don't want it. They are all about shaming the fuck out of whitey to no end, worshipping their race hustlers, and issuing "get of out hypocrisy free" cards for everything under the sun. Gun control. Carbon tax shit. Open the gates to retarded uneducated unskilled third world labor at our southern border for literal "herds" of central Americans to enter, while simultaneously doing their best no conservative is ever elected again by killing the filibuster, packing the court with commie libtard pragmatists because they didn't like how Trump followed the rules last time and put in too many judges for them to stomach. Make DC, Guam, PR, and whatever else they can muster into statehood so they can get an additional 2 fucking senators for each to assist them in shoving their ideology so far down your fucking throats your progeny be shitting commie pinko for rest of their lives. And fucking reasons fine with it. Not a peep out of these fuckers. Just more complaints about Trump.

        2. Everything has to do with Soros.

          1. Soros killed my cat.

            1. It’s a shame he allowed you to live though.

            2. Sure it wasn’t Antifa?
              After seeing a few conspiracy theories in the comments here, not to mention some schoolboy art, I was once again reminded that nationalist socialist media has been shut down. On the one hand, it was nice to be rid of them. On the other, leave them together in one place and they end up one-upping each other into IRL mischief. Ugh, nasty, gullible, and not-terribly-bright people.

          2. And I still don’t have a taco truck on my corner. I was promised a taco truck.

        3. Because Soros is a Nazi. A real one. Not the fake BS you pitch as Nazis these days.

          1. All workers like Soros for the Nazis wore SS uniforms.

            Soros ditched those photos a long time ago.

            1. Soros is a lot of things but he did not help the Nazis. He was 14 years old and did some work for the Jewish council which the Nazis made them set up. He was given a list of people who were ordered to report. He showed his father the list and he knew that they would be deported. So he warned them and left the job.

              He spent the rest of the war posing as a Christian with a Christian family and fake papers his father got.

              My mother in law did the same thing. She hid out in the countryside with a Christian family and posed as one of them.

              My father in law helped make bombs for the Nazis. When he arrived at the camp he lied and said he was an electrician. So they sent him to a labor camp. The rest of his family was exterminated.

              1. So your father in law was complicit in the murder of his own family.

                1. Sometimes, like this time, you guys really show how undeserving of good faith engagement and debate you are.

                  1. All the time, you really show how undeserving of good faith engagement and debate you are.

              2. When you spin to defend nazism because you’re a devout leftist

          2. Soros is a terrible person, but what he did to survive as a young teen is not part of why. You seriously think you would have done differently in his place?

            1. Yes.

              1. Others may not, but I believe you.

                Despite all the words you spend casting Nazi’s as leftists, you and I both know you wouldn’t be pretending to help.

      2. The commies at unreason are like the commies in the democrat party….desperate.

        They need legitimacy just like their commie brethren need to convince the world they are the ruthless murderers of communists that killed over 100 million people in the 20th century.

        1. Tell us that story again about how Trump is going to remain president until 2024 !

          1. Who would have thought Democrats election fraud would be this massive and make sure we never have a free election in the USA again.

            Trump won a plurality of legal votes in states that mattered. Democrats and a corrupt elite class refused to prevent that by following the Constitution. Big surprise.

            1. Sure! Also, let’s place the Finger of Blame where it belongs: All of the UnReason writers, who supported turning ON those mind-control machines from the Planet of the Lizards, which were installed in us as we slept, by Evil conspiring Democrats (Lizard-allied TRAITORS that they are)!

              1. Go back to your shit bucket.

      3. The stupidest thing about Momma’s post above is where she insinuates that she wrote it all by herself! (The Amphibian People actually did it all!)

      4. Hey, just because you disagree doesn’t mean the article is false and the retraction and apology wasn’t necessary nor done forcefully. The fact is more experts and sources debunk the conspiracy than support it.

      5. Observe that the Mother Slammer sockpuppet will make up any trash or recycle any unsubstantiated gossip to try to pull down one of Reason’s best assets: a reporter with a grasp of objective reality working at a Libertarian publication not bent on getting goons with guns to bully females. #Doxxthemuthaslammer

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  2. 90% favor in multiple ‘swing’ states on one single night is all the “credible evidence” I need. The fact that we need media-alignment, prosecution for dissent and “contradicted by multiple authoritative sources” just makes it more like the Climate Change Hoax.

    Get off your freak-en lazy name-calling *sses and go figure out the TRUTH… Why was there 90% favor all the sudden, Why was there so many “mistakes” on LiveTV? Why were uncounted votes found? Why was it so easy to flip votes from Trump to Biden? Why did an independent audit come back with voter fraud was massive results? Why is PA allowed to void their election laws?

    The more horn blowing going on with zero effort to authenticate it; the more it looks like fraud. Is the “Cancel Culture” the new justice system in this country or what?

    1. You delusional fools lost and couldn’t produce a shred of evidence of fraud. Get over it.

      1. So why did Biden have the largest most inclusive anti voter fraud team in place on election day if the chance of fraud was zero?

        1. That’s what gets me the most here. I have no idea if there was enough fraud to change the outcome. But the Democrats were definitely going to make noise about it if they had lost. And they spent the last 4 years basically trying to claim that 2016 was illegitimate. They hypocrisy is just incredible.
          Trump has been pretty stupid through much of this, but don’t tell me that Democrats would have just quietly given in had they lost.

          1. If you take the hypocrisy out of most peoples’ minds, their heads would collapse from the resulting vacuum.

          2. Appeal to hypocrisy fallacy. What you seem to be saying is:

            We made a big stink about voter fraud and didn’t produce credible evidence that would have affected the outcome of the election, but it’s justified because Democrats would’ve done the same, and they did in 2016.

            Keep in mind, a lot of people who are challenging you are Republicans that never got on the Trump train, didn’t challenge the legitimacy of the 2016 election, and didn’t accuse Trump of Russia collusion. We think the lawsuits and the endless stream of bogus claims look more pathetic than the Democrats looked in 2016. But we’re more frustrated with you because we’re *supposed* to be on the same side.

            Republicans will start winning again when people start saying “What gets me the most here is that my own side is acting crazy”

            I can’t guarantee the results, but going Independent freed up a lot of mental space for me to not feel like I had to agree with everything “RED”. I highly recommend.

      2. No widespread fraud.

        1. Hmmm.. Seems all the testimony and evidence has been CANCELLED.

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    2. Give it up.

      1. No.

        Now tell us all what quotation marks mean, retard.


    4. Lefties are attacking anyone who asks questions about election fraud.

      Red flags all over the place. Commies flags of election fraud and suppression pf speech.

    5. > Why was there 90% favor all the sudden

      Because it was midnight, and the mail-in votes were not allowed to be counted until midnight. Which was Trump’s fault for encouraging his supporters to NOT vote by mail.

      We’ve been over this dozens of times. People whining about Sullum being a broken record, but you guys keep bringing back THE SAME FUCKING BULLSHIT EVERY DAY! It’s all been debunked, you’re just so far up your own ass you don’t even bother listening. You’re just like 9/11 Troofers, “we’re just asking questions” and then refusing to listen to answers.

      1. This is such a stupid rebuttal, frequently parroted by the stupid, when we have so much data inconsistent with your narrative.

        1. Oh look everyone. Another masked girl-bullying ku-kluxer hurting for some Dr Trump’s Sutthurt Salve for superstitious girl-bullying lewsers. By getting voters to cross the street to avoid Republican National Socialism these lamers inadvertently scored a goal against mystical fascism and for liberal democracy. That must really be smarting poor Narcz…

      2. we should print this on a sack….. fill that sack with nickles…. and maybe we can beat some understanding into them.

      3. And yet; Do you want to know HOW states justified extending their mail-in ballots as resistant to fraud???????????????????????

        BECAUSE previously; All mail-in voting ratio’s MATCHED the in person voting trend very well.

        I’ll listen when you create some evidence of authentication instead of compulsively trying to CANCEL all the evidence at hand with stupidity. Let’s start with; If 90% of Democrats voted by mail then WHY did 48% of them show up in person? And WHY didn’t Trump’s vote reflect a 90% LEAD on in-person voting???? I mean are we talking about a SWING State or a state with a history of being 90% Democratic???????

        Your ignorance doesn’t authenticate it.

    6. OK, I’ll bite instead of “cancelling” you out.

      What is the minimum threshold of favor that would you would need? Obviously it’s at least 90%. And keep in mind, it’s the same number your opponent would need in past or future elections to declare your vote as fraudulent.

      Is the 90% number for a single county, or statewide? Is it within a time window? I’m assuming the same number would apply to in-person voting (it’s theoretically possible for a person with voter ID to cast votes at a Dominion machine, and for that machine to switch the vote). So, if we saw a county that had a 90% favor for Trump within a 12 hour window, are you saying we would know that there was fraud committed there?

      And your question salad:

      Why where there so many mistakes on Live TV?

      Every county runs their own election. The county/state rollups are extremely transparent. Which county made the mistakes you are referring to? I’d be happy to look into every one of the mistakes to try to explain, and who knows, maybe this will uncover fraud. Live TV has nothing to do with it.

      “Why was it so easy to flip votes from Trump to Biden?”

      “When did you stop beating your wife?” (Same sort of leading question)

      I didn’t realize it was really easy to flip votes from Trump to Biden, but is it also easy to flip votes from Biden to Trump? Was it easy to flip votes in all counties? Are you referring to a specific technology like Dominion? Or paper ballots? Remember, each country runs their own election, but if you let me know which counties were vulnerable to vote-flipping, I’d love to read more.

      Even if it was discovered that there was a vulnerability that allowed votes to be switched, it’s not evidence that votes were switched, let alone switched from Trump to Biden.

      “Why did an independent audit come back with voter fraud”

      I’m going to assume you’re talking about the forensic audit in Antrim County. I read the entire report, missed where they found evidence of voter fraud. Showing that a misconfiguration in software forced adjudication (manual intervention) does not prove that a) the misconfiguration was an attempt at fraud, or b) fraud occurred during the adjudication process.

      Why is PA allowed to void their election laws?


      I have a single question back for you: What evidence would demonstrate to you that the election was not stolen from Trump?

      1. There is valid concern about the Pennsylvania Supreme Court overriding powers reserved for the state Legislature to extend the voting deadline – but it’s f**king over. Pretty sure the GOP (and perhaps some Democrats) will try to make sure those last-minute voting rule changes are not so easy to make happen again – and they sure as hell will litigate them before voting day next time. The rest of your points are well stated. I would also remind all the Trump die-hards that he lost the popular vote in 2016. Why is it so hard to believe he lost in 2020? Clinton was a horrible candidate in 2016 (and Trump lost the popular vote). Biden was a feeble candidate – but Trump blew it in the first debate – and bigly. Swing voters were clearly tired of Trump’s bad behavior – and the Democrats did a very good job getting the vote out.

  3. Does sullum think this was the only claim that existed? It was one of the least talked about issues. The most talked about was the no audit trail for adjudicated ballots and the abnormally high number of them.

    Try harder sullum.

    1. I spent more time skimming this article and writing this comment then I did considering Dominion machines role in the election.

      1. The Dominion claims were always about the adjudicated ballots. Dominion didn’t have to use software to cause the high number of “bad” ballots which is all this lawsuit pertains too, that it was software that caused the adjudication. At least one county showed all the GOP ballots were misaligned when printed and sent to voters while the Democrat ballots were not, this can cause adjudication for even one side.

        We know this election had abnormally high adjudication rates. We know they destroyed original ballots.

        There is also the Voter Integrity Project doing sampling of voters with high rates of people telling them they never voted despite states saying they did. Nothing to do with Dominion.

        But sullum believes falsifying one claim falsified them all.

        1. No they were not all about the “adjudicated ballots” despite your attempts at revisionism. There was crazy ass shit about Venezuela and dubious claims about fractional vote algorithms.

          1. ….And ‘Conspiracy Theories’ about uncounted ballots and President Trump asking them to *find* more…

            Oh wait; no, that turned out to be true in one way or another.

            …And ‘Conspiracy Theories’ of votes that flipped from Trump to Biden on machine count..

            Oh wait; no, that turned out to be true in one way or another.

            Denial-ism is a hard habit to break.

            1. Oh, Whoopsie-Daisies; Trump supporters broke a door; but quickly fixed it by running away. No big deal; it was just a whoopsie-daisies.

        2. You dont even need the election fraud to give this election no legitimacy.

          Unconstitutional changes to election laws without state legislature approval because kungflu is enough to toss tens of millions of mailin ballots. Even wisconsin supreme court deemed 210,000 mailin ballots illegal but refused to toss them.

          The government is full of corrupt piece of shit who refuse to follow the constitutional principles that keep the USA from devolving into civil war. Too late.

          Democrats started civil war 2.0 just like they started civil war 1.0 and they wont like how this one turns out for them either.

        1. Surely, Two affidavits that coined the term “being of sound mind” MUST void the entire collection and all other evidence presented with. Never in the entire history of sworn affidavits has two witnesses used the same term “being of sound mind”!

          It’s stupidity like this being used to “cancel” evidence that disturbs me. Maybe there wasn’t election fraud; maybe there was – but the “cancelling” methods of the evidence is more flimbsy than the evidence itself.

    2. By the way sullum… why wasn’t there even one story on the bullahit that was trump russia? Is it because you fell for it like a sap?

      1. Fuck off. It’s just one bitch after another with you CACLLs.

        1. The White Knight
          October.22.2020 at 3:18 pm

          It means conservative and conservative-leaning libertarian, and I coined it.

          1. Poor girl thinks she’s clever.

    3. Pathetic. Sullum was writing about the claims made about Dominion (and Smartmatic). You cannot dispute that the claims against those companies were bogus, so you throw something else at the wall, hoping it will stick.

      1. Those claims were real and the writers still stand behind them. The magazine printed the lawyers letter, because it couldn’t afford to fight Soros’s billion dollar lawyers.

        White Knight is a big fan of legal bullying.

        1. Do you have a new boogeyman lined up to blame everything on once Soros dies? Is this new boogeyman coincidentally Jewish too? Asking for a friend.

          1. Seriously, you stupid fuck? All the shit Soros does and you think the only reason anyone could possibly object to it is because he’s Jewish? I get that you’re obsessed with it, but there really are other factors involved.

            Why am I bothering to yell at this pair of socks anyway?

            1. Ahhh the “you’re a sock” gambit. The last refuge of the incompetent scoundrel without a real point to make. You hate to see it!

          2. His sons.

            1. That was pretty funny, I’ll give you that.

              1. I’m not joking.

          3. Telling people they can’t criticize an individual because it is bigotry against the group they belong to only makes people more likely to embrace the bigotry.

            Why would we not if we are accused of it when innocent?

            And what makes YOU think our criticism of Soros should reflect on Jews as a group? Do you think they also embrace his causes and support his lobby groups?

        2. Poor misunderstood MommySlammer baybee! Did dat big bad Jake Sullum kick sand in its face and hurt its poor widdle feewings? We need a MAGA wet mop on aisle 2 as in tu quoque, and a large dollop of Trump butthurt salve, on the double!

    4. lol this is your defense? You were scammed, hard. You fell for it hook, line and sinker. I know it is horribly embarrassing for you, but trying to save face now is only making it worse.

      1. Thanks for the informative article. In any contest between dishonest looters, none of the purported facts can be trusted. In the latest ordure-flinging match, this voting-machines business was but one among thousands of elaborate con jobs manufactured in a last-ditch effort to get that hand in the till while still threatening women voters with coercion at the hands of bullying fanatics. Sullum is turning out fine work. Mystical bigots are getting what they deserve 48 years after the LP handed the Supreme Court the Roe v Wade decision.

    5. Are you saying the only claim that existed [against Dominion]? Or that Dominion fraud was only one of the discussed methods of committing election fraud?

      I didn’t vote for Trump, but I would support a massive inquiry into claims of election fraud. I would pick a Trump supporter in Congress that could head it up without it turning into a platform for demagoguery.

      That said, it seems like people who are convinced the election was stolen won’t ever believe otherwise. Maybe I’m wrong.

      Audit trails are important. This was the primary reason for Georgia deciding to spend 100MM to change from their old touch-panel system to Dominion, which uses paper receipts.

      In other words, Georgia had a better audit trail in 2020 than in 2016, ie. it was easier to hack the system without detection to alter votes in 2016.

      So, it’s obvious that since Trump won Georgia in 2016, with 5% more of the votes than Hillary, that he must have exploited those receipt-less touch screens, and in 2020 with Dominion being installed, it took away his cheating advantage and he lost both the presidential election and the congressional run-off election. We can’t find any evidence because the Koch money and the wall street fat cats threatened everyone involved.

      It goes without saying that I’ve just made a terrible argument. But if I took that argument to a left-wing echo chamber, I wouldn’t get a single person to disagree with me.

      Potential for fraud does not equal fraud. Fortunately for all of us, we live in a country that requires hard evidence for claims of fraud. This wasn’t a surprise. Georgia hired some 22,000 man hours of investigators leading up to the election dedicated to uncovering election fraud. Texas billionaires hired ex-law enforcement as private investigators at $250K to uncover fraud. As of right now, it’s amounted to no hard evidence and a whole lot of speculation.

      As always, I’m willing to admit I’m wrong and be educated.

  4. Libertarians have no business supporting suing people for questioning the integrity of our voting systems.

    For goodness’ sake, just because something can be rationalized, doesn’t mean it should be.

    Anything can be rationalized. If you can rationalize genocide from a libertarian environmentalist perspective, good for you! That doesn’t mean you should.

    1. That’s really what this article is about, and I don’t think Sullum even realizes it.

    2. The defendant is a serial killer because his mother abused him!

      —-That’s a rationalization.

      The defendant should be exonerated of being a serial killer because his mother abused him!

      —That’s a pathetic failure of an attempt at justification

      Anything can be rationalized.

      Rationalization does not equal justification, and no libertarian should attempt to justify using the coercive power of the state to crack down on those who question the integrity of our voting systems–although it might be in the proper purview of libertarianism to defend those who question the integrity of our voting system on a First Amendment basis.

      Far as I’m concerned, if and when you willingly take a government contract, you open yourself up to a lot more in the way of criticism than would be appropriate otherwise. Imagine if this kind of defamation were pursued by military contractors, etc. when they’re criticized for what they do on behalf of the government. Talk about a can full of anti-libertarian worms!

    3. They didn’t question the integrity of voting systems, as if there might be a problem to be investigated. They stated as fact that Dominion acted fraudulently.

      1. “Joe Biden is a crook”.

        —-Ken Shultz

        Is my statement actionable as defamation?

        Why or why not?

        1. Read the article. It is discussed.

          1. Do I need to point out the difference between rationalizing and justifying again?

            Because I won’t. If you still don’t get it, you’re being willfully obtuse.

            1. The lies about (and directed at) Dominion Voting Systems is also a part of a MUCH bigger over-all problem, and that is the BIG LIE of Der TrumpfenFuhrer and the death-to-democracy mob of trumpanzees gone apeshit! If we are gonna put out the forest fire, we need to start by dousing the fire on some individual trees!

              Der TrumpfenFuhrer ***IS*** responsible for agitating for democracy to be replaced by mobocracy!

              A list of the times Trump has said he won’t accept the election results or leave office if he loses

              Essential heart and core of the LIE by Trump: “ANY election results not confirming MEEE as Your Emperor, MUST be fraudulent!”
              September 13 rally: “The Democrats are trying to rig this election because that’s the only way they’re going to win,” he said.
              Trump’s constant re-telling and supporting the Big Lie (any election not electing Trump is “stolen”) set up the environment for this (insurrection riot) to happen. He shares the blame. Boys will be boys? Insurrectionists will be insurrectionists, so let’s forgive and forget? Poor Trump was misunderstood? Does that sound good and right and true?

              It really should immediately make us think of Krystallnacht. Hitler and the NAZIs set up for this by constantly blaming Jews for all things bad. Jew-haters will be Jew-haters, so let’s forgive and forget? Poor Hitler was misunderstood? Does that sound good and right and true?

              1. “The lies about (and directed at) Dominion Voting Systems is also a part of a MUCH bigger over-all problem, and that is the BIG LIE of Der TrumpfenFuhrer”

                Nothing needs to be changed or different because Trump is involved.

                The problem appears to be all in your head.

                1. “Nothing needs to be changed or different because Trump is involved.”

                  Trump can do no wrong? Intelligent, eloquent Ken has turned into yet another trumpanzee? It causes a pretty terrible sinking feeling in my stomach! If intelligent and eloquent people can become pod people and trumpanzees, the future is looking bleaker and bleaker every day!

                  1. If your head is so twisted that you think that me saying that our laws and our free speech protections don’t need to be changed–means that Trump can do no wrong? Then you don’t need me reasoning with you. You need the services of a licensed psychiatrist.

                    1. “Nothing needs to be changed or different” VERY clearly can mean… In plain English, DOES mean… Everything is damned near perfect!

                      “…because Trump is involved.” …And this is WHY it is damned near perfect!

                      If that is NOT what you meant to write, it is VERY crappy writing! With all of your praises for Der TrumpfenFuhrer lately, if it is NOT what you meant consciously, it just MIGHT be what you meant subconsciously!

                    2. ““Nothing needs to be changed or different” VERY clearly can mean… In plain English, DOES mean… Everything is damned near perfect!

                      Nothing about the First Amendment or our defamation laws needs to be changed or different–because of Donald Trump–you psychotic idiot.

                    3. Thanks and All Praises, then, to Donald Trump! Because of Donald Trump, nothing about the First Amendment or our defamation laws needs to be changed or different! They are near-perfect as is! Thanks, Donald!

                    4. What you MIGHT have meant to say is this, maybe? “The doings of Donald Trump do not justify changing the First Amendment.”

                      To which I agree, so long as we do NOT butcher the traditional understanding that demonstrable harm to private property rights, resulting from demonstrable LIES, is NOT protected by said First Amendment! Protect innocent bystanders who act in good faith! If I hate welfarism by Government Almighty, does THAT allow my “political speech freedom” to go and spread LIES about the local grocery store, which takes a few food stamps? And cause demonstrable harm to the grocery store, with my LIES? YOU are the one who needs his head examined!

                2. Just spamflag the retard when he off-topics with his copypasta.

                  1. Flag refresh

                  2. I usually just ignore the trolls–even when they respond to me.

                    Every once in a while, it’s important to stomp on them, intellectually speaking, like bugs–which we should be able to do whenever we want because they’re ignorant, stupid, and wrong.

                    1. Tony, ChemJeff, Shrike, . . .

                    2. “Every once in a while, it’s important to stomp on them, intellectually speaking, like bugs–which we should be able to do whenever we want because they’re ignorant, stupid, and wrong.”

                      The Jewish parasite in Nazi propaganda. You are not referring to Jews specifically. Just anyone who did not vote for Donald Trump.


        2. Ken Shultz defames Dominion Voting Systems… No one gives a shit, because Ken Shultz is a peon, like the rest of us here. Our comments don’t threaten to torpedo the business. AND we don’t have deep pockets! If a large media company slams Dominion Voting Systems (with lies), then BOTH of those factors flip drastically! With power, comes responsibility; it is that simple. Deep pockets is a proxy for power… So, go, Dominion Voting Systems, go, and sue the hell out of these powerful liars, till they come around! I don’t like dishonest, greedy lawyers, but in cases like this, they serve a purpose. The powerful need to be held accountable for their clearly harmful lies.

          PS, tear down Section 230 as it is, and watch the lawyers go after for OUR comments, because Reason has deeper pockets than we peons do! So in that case, prepare to say goodbye to this comments forum…

          1. Shorter and sweeter additional point: Ken Shultz makes NO money when he defames Dominion Voting Systems… So let Dominion Voting Systems get their $0.00 back from Ken, sounds fair and proportional! Mass media makes money by selling lies, as well as hurting the finances of the victim of their lies? Dominion Voting Systems deserves some money back! It is “justice”, which isn’t exactly mathematics, it lacks precision… But there it is!

          2. The idea that First Amendment protections arise and fall depending on whether the people involved are rich or powerful is stupid and unsupported.

            1. So if you own a food selling business, and I own a LARGE newspaper, and I make LOTS of money selling papers full of sensational LIES about POISONS in your food, and I cause your business to go under… You’re totally OK with that?

              I call bullshit! This is theft by lying, plain and simple! First Amendment protections don’t apply to that! If government totally fails to prosecute for this kind of thing, people will resort to personal violence for justice, because government is NOT doing its job! “Trial by combat” says Trump’s lawyer Guiliani… You looking forward to that? To hell with more-civilized ways?

              1. I don’t know what’s worse with you, being willfully obtuse or being loopy.

                You seem to act as if this is the first time anyone’s ever heard of the First Amendment and how it impacts defamation.

                I assure you, these principles predate Trump by a long shot, and your weird rationalizations don’t appear to have any principles or reasoning behind them.

                1. For the rest of you, . . .

                  “The case began in 1960 when The New York Times published a full-page advertisement by supporters of Martin Luther King Jr. that criticized the police in Montgomery, Alabama, for their mistreatment of civil rights protesters.[5] However, the ad had several factual inaccuracies, such as the number of times King had been arrested during the protests, what song the protesters had sung, and whether or not students had been expelled for participating.[5] In response, Montgomery police commissioner L. B. Sullivan sued the Times in the local county court for defamation.[5] The judge ruled the advertisement’s inaccuracies were defamatory per se, and the jury returned a verdict in favor of Sullivan and awarded him $500,000 in damages.[5] The Times appealed the verdict to the Supreme Court of Alabama, which affirmed it. It then appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, which agreed to hear the case and ordered certiorari.

                  In March 1964, the Court issued a unanimous 9–0 decision holding that the Alabama court’s verdict violated the First Amendment.[1] The decision defended free reporting of the civil rights campaigns in the southern United States. It is one of the key decisions supporting the freedom of the press. Before this decision, there were nearly $300 million in libel actions from the southern states outstanding against news organizations, as part of a focused effort by southern officials to use defamation lawsuits as a means of preventing critical coverage of civil rights issues in out-of-state publications.[6][7] The Supreme Court’s decision, and its adoption of the actual malice standard, reduced the financial exposure from potential defamation claims, and thus frustrated the efforts of public officials to use these claims to suppress political criticism.[6][7]


                  To whatever extent a private company is acting on behalf of the government, they should be treated like the government.

                  1. Sqrlsy is spammer, so he gets a spamflag whenever he doesn’t properly engage and just posts copypasta.

                    1. And you are a foreign National trying to propagandize and interfere with the politics of another country.

                      Why don’t you admit the truth.

                  2. “To whatever extent a private company is acting on behalf of the government, they should be treated like the government.”

                    Two road-building companies are both in the business of building roads for the public, using taxpayer funds. Road-builder “A” widely spreads TOTAL lies about road-builder “B”, about corruption and shoddy materials and methods leading to highway deaths whose causes weren’t actually related to materials and methods, etc., in any way. “A” manages to cause and uproar with the lies, and drives “B” out of business. “B” now has NO justification to sue “A”? If “B” wants justice, they are stuck with using personal, mob-style violence now, per Giuliani and “trials by combat”? I think you’re missing some complexities!

          3. It isn’t clear to me that Dominion should even be a business.

    4. They were sued for out and out lie-filled defamation, no matter how you want to spin that as an innocent desire to examine the election results.

      1. Where in the First Amendment does it say that we can only criticize the government and its contractors when what what we say is 100% accurate?

        1. Ken, come on. You’re taking a stance that this was just innocent inquiry. You may not think there were attempts to deliberately mislead but it doesn’t seem much of a stretch. Defamation may be a stretch, but that’s what courts are for.

          1. This magazine used to be against SLAPP’s, and thought they chilled public inquiry and discussion of action taken by public entities. A suit between American Thinker and Dominion isn’t exactly a SLAPP, as Dominion isn’t a public entity, but by God, Dominion’s performing a serious governmental function. Defamation suits like it’s threatening here absolutely have the intended effect of quashing criticism about how it performs that governmental function.

            Sullum sees no problem with this, as it assists the goal he’s been working towards with his—what is it, 35?—repeated articles about how Trump is wrong to say this Election was stolen.

            It’s sad.

            1. Narrative building, not journalism, is what Reason does these days.

          2. Our defamation laws evolved to account for the First Amendment. The reason Australia, Canada, and the UK have very different defamation laws is because they don’t have the First Amendment. In those countries, public officials suing reporters and news organizations is fairly common.

            “A former member of Parliament and leader of a fringe federal political party is suing a prominent political commentator and strategist for defamation.

            Maxime Bernier alleges Warren Kinsella repeatedly branded him as a racist on social media and blog posts before, during and after the federal election campaign last year.

            In his statement of claim, Bernier says those descriptions damaged his reputation and subjected him to public scandal and embarrassment.

            A lawyer representing Kinsella says the suit is an effort to suppress public debate about Bernier’s political views.

            Kinsella has previously published a blog post in which he said there would be “no retraction” of past statements concerning Bernier.

            The statement of claim, which has not been tested in court, says Bernier is seeking an admission of defamation along with $325,000 in damages.


            That’s just one example. Trudeau threatened to sue the Conservatives during some of his recent scandals for saying terrible things about him (link below). The reason this doesn’t generally happen in the United States is because people have a right to say pretty much whatever they want about politicians–because of the First Amendment. Private companies open themselves up to that kind of criticism when they accept contracts with the government.

            To whatever extent you want to blame the Iraq War on Halliburton–incorrectly–you should have to face being corrected and having your reputation for accuracy and honesty brought into question by anyone who cares to do so. The idea that Halliburton should be free to sue you for criticizing U.S. foreign policy as a function of their participation and complicity in it, that’s preposterous–by the logic of the First Amendment. You are free to criticize your government, and if the government is involving itself in a contractor’s business, you’re free to criticize that as well. And this is all as it should be.

            Meanwhile, the libertarian position is to defend the right of people to say what they want about the government and those who choose to work with the government. There is no legitimate libertarian argument for using the coercive power of the government to silence the critics of the government and its contractors. There are rationalizations for everything, but, as I pointed out above, anything can be rationalized. So what? Rationalizations are bullshit.

            1. Example 2:

              “OTTAWA (Reuters) – The leader of Canada’s opposition Conservative Party said on Sunday that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau threatened to sue him for libel over statements made about a scandal that has dogged Trudeau and his ruling Liberal Party for two months.

              . . . .

              On Sunday, Conservative leader Andrew Scheer released a letter he said he received a week ago from a lawyer representing Trudeau. It referred to statements made by the opposition leader on Facebook on March 29, which the letter called “beyond the pale of fair debate” and “libelous.”

              The letter is to be “treated as a notice” and will be referred to “in any subsequent action,” it said.



              Thank goodness for the First Amendment.

              “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

              —-First Amendment

              “Joe Biden is a crook, who has been selling influence through his son for at least ten years.”

              —-Ken Shultz

              1. P.S. The First Amendment doesn’t merely make us different from other countries with the same cultural heritage. It’s an important part of what makes us distinctly American.

                1. You put way too much effort into trying to convince authoritarians that free speech is more important than their Top Men.

                  1. It’s like squashing cockroaches in a New York tenement. It’s mostly a waste of time, but every once in a while, it’s important to squash a bug or two. And they’re easy to squash–because they’re stupid.

                    1. Lol. A few comments down you get put on your back heel and have to peddle back your whole argument. Nice pivot to your pet issue of hunter biden and the red scare 2: electric pld fart a roo.
                      Your walls of sophistry may be impressive to the hicks who base their reasoning on faith and fear, but the people who you really want to impress deep down see right through you.

                Simple Rules for a Complex World … Is what we need! It works!!!

                But, Government Almighty DAMN it, we need to pick the RIGHT simple rules! Simple rule = “Free speech means wide-open season for any and all LIES against government contractors” does NOT fit the bill! “Significantly hurt an individual or business entity’s property rights, by telling what are demonstrably lies, and the damaged party CAN take you to court” works MUCH better!

                Do YOU want to go into the business of making vote-gathering and vote-counting hardware and services right now, WITHOUT court protections against LIES?!?! In today’s political environment, trying to provide this kind of service, honestly and fairly, is like entering the den of lions, if the customer (government) is NOT going to give you fair protection from LIES!

    5. There may be a libertarian argument against defamation law, but if there is, I haven’t heard it. Assuming laws against libel are compatible with libertarianism, why do libertarians have no business supporting such suits if we believe such suits are meritorious?

      The statement, “Are voting machines used in the U.S. sufficiently secure, or are they vulnerable to hacking by malevolent actors?” is “questioning the integrity of our voting systems.” On the other hand, the statement “Dominion is a fraudulent organization formed specifically by Hugo Chavez to steal elections that conspired with Venezuelans, Serbians, Iranians, and Chinese actors to steal the 2020 election by changing votes from Trump to Biden” is not “questioning the integrity of our voting systems.” It is a specific allegation that a specific group of people committed specific crimes. And if false, seems appropriately the subject of legal action. (Spoiler alert: it’s false.)

      1. “There may be a libertarian argument against defamation law, but if there is, I haven’t heard it.”

        I didn’t say there was a libertarian argument against defamation law per se.

        I said it doesn’t apply to government officials and government contractors.

        P.S. Hunter Biden has been selling influence on behalf of his father for more than ten years.

        If Hunter Biden (or his father) wants to sue me for saying that, then the Supreme Court should tell him to go pound sand because of the First Amendment.

        1. “I said it doesn’t apply to government officials and government contractors.”

          Many-many-MANY companies are “government contractors” to SOME extent or another, these days! As soon as I sell a pencil to government, people can now tell whatever lies they want to, for whatever reason they want to, about my whole company? Grocery stores who accept a few food stamps? All are fair game for any and every lie about the food that they sell?

          I think that you are seeing black and white here, when there are a TON of shades of gray! Telling LIES about the products (or services) of a company SHOULD be actionable, if it causes significant harm to the company!

          1. Flag, refresh.

            You need to actually *take* the risperidone, Squirrel. It doesn’t work just sitting in the bottle.

            1. Do you recall the awesome enchanter named “Tim”, in “Monty Python and the Search for the Holy Grail”? The one who could “summon fire without flint or tinder”? Well, you remind me of Tim… You are an enchanter who can summon persuasion without facts or logic!

              So I discussed your awesome talents with some dear personal friends on the Reason staff… Accordingly…

              Reason staff has asked me to convey the following message to you:

              Hi Fantastically Talented Author:

              Obviously, you are a silver-tongued orator, and you also know how to translate your spectacular talents to the written word! We at Reason have need for writers like you, who have near-magical persuasive powers, without having to write at great, tedious length, or resorting to boring facts and citations.

              At Reason, we pay above-market-band salaries to permanent staff, or above-market-band per-word-based fees to freelancers, at your choice. To both permanent staff, and to free-lancers, we provide excellent health, dental, and vision benefits. We also provide FREE unlimited access to nubile young groupies, although we do firmly stipulate that persuasion, not coercion, MUST be applied when taking advantage of said nubile young groupies.

              Please send your resume, and another sample of your writings, along with your salary or fee demands, to .

              Thank You! -Reason Staff

        2. This is the comment where you should have conceded your argument, ken.


          1. Yes. Subjective, and in this case, genuinely expressed opinion has long been acknowledged as the “knockout punch” to any line of argument. Especially a well-reasoned argument. I had previously been under the impression you were an above-par rhetorical adversary for some of the ass-hattery displayed here. Not the first nor last time I’ve been mistaken.

    6. I read through this chain. It was… interesting.

      It never clicked to me why Oltmann and Powell didn’t backpedal like Fox, OANN, etc. But it makes more sense if they’re being advised that Dominion can’t actually make a defamation claim because they were acting on behalf of the government.

      I’m not one for sacred cows, and there’s a lot more danger in preventing inquiry than allowing false accusations, but it’s been disheartening to see how easily millions of people could be disenfranchised by claims of voter fraud that are so blatantly false. If I was on a side that seemed destined to lose for the next 20 years, I would make it part of my permanent strategy to defame the election process and everyone involved, since it would primarily serve me and hurt my opponent, at least until I (theoretically) started winning elections.

      I feel bad for the people that tried to make it a fair election and now have to live under the shadow of being accused of fraud. And the reality is that’s going to be their life for the foreseeable future, no matter what they do, because I see a whole lot more accusing in our future, not less. And I guess it sucks for Dominion. Even if they win this suit, they’re screwed.

      But if you get past that, I guess it puts each state on notice to proactively manage their election procedures and their image, knowing they’re gonna get thrashed and there’s not much they can do about it.

    7. I’m surprised they are so against investigating the fraud. With 160 million votes cast, any being tossed due to legitimacy raises the % of the vote Libertarians got. Wouldn’t they be invested in that number being as accurate to reality as possible, especially if it could be higher?

  5. I hope some of these lawsuits go forward. Nothing like discovery to shine light on what really happened, if anything did.

    1. I would like to see discovery as well, but I don’t think that will happen. Most of the news outlets have folded and retracted stories quickly, suggesting they have nothing to rely on for proof. If any news source had some actual evidence they would hold fast to their original story.

      1. Bullshit.

        Having truth, and having the resources to prove you have the truth, are two different things.

        Litigation is costly and time-intensive, even if you win. It’s best to avoid it, unless you have very deep pockets and plenty of time, or are married to a litigator.

    2. SleepyJoe will take care of this controversy.
      He will make it illegal to complain about the elections, and we will move on.

    3. Discovery is the shoals upon which the adherents of voting fraud will flounder. Let´s see what evidence Sidney Powell and her ilk claim to have, because they failed to produce the same for the courts whose jurisdiction they invoked.

      1. Uh, that should be founder, not flounder.

  6. Taking criticism is fine. Outright lies with no basis in fact is a different matter. I’m not saying that happened here, or that there are damages. Just commenting on when I feel a defamation suit is warranted. And it doesn’t matter if one takes a government contract.

  7. I fought hard for Trump on numerous issues, so I too was disappointed in the election results and was inclined to give credit to these claims. But they each crumbled under a little scrunity one after the other, and it became a case of ‘the boy who cried wolf’. I also realized in talking to the people who pushed these claims that their agenda wasn’t to help Trump win, but only to establish a pretext for war. The result was the insurrection at the capitol.

    If only they had fought for Trump before the election with the same viciousness that they now attack me for pointing out these obvious facts, Trump would have had a chance. But they didn’t and it’s too late now and they have only themselves to blame.

    Many of them end up saying, “Well I never really supported Trump to begin with. Still I know he won.” As will now be demonstrated:

    1. I haven’t heard any explanation for the early morning vote spikes for Biden.

      1. Gosh if only you had fought for Trump before the election with the same persistence that you now push discredited election fraud claims, he might have had a chance. But you didn’t, or at least not enough of you did. And so you have only yourselves to blame.

        1. You know this is a libertarian not conservative website right? It’s sure funny how all those Democratic absentee ballots all showed up at 3 am in the swing states.

        2. That “:” was genius. Such an obvious trap, and yet they just can’t help themselves.

          A very nice demonstration of how the power of cult reasoning can cause people to not see the obvious.

  8. American Thinker operates out of a UPS Store (go ahead, Google the address and do a Street View on it).

    One letter with at least three Latin legal terms (ever notice that attorneys love to state things in threes?) from anyone with “Esq.” after their name would be enough to make a small operation like that fold like a cheap suit.

    1. That is more likely a rented post box out of the UPS store than an operations center. Many corporations have a mail box as their official postal address. You are likely to see that more in the future because who really needs an office anymore?

      1. Granted. “…operates out of a UPS Store…” was meant to convey that most likely “American Thinker” is a shoe-string operation that has a mail drop at that UPS store.

    2. High fallacy to word ratio.

      Ignoring the UPS Store line of thinking…

      I’d be interested in hearing all the stories where the “little guy” journalist vetted their sources, reported facts, and then got bullied into retractions by big bad attorneys. (Emphasis on the ‘vetted sources, reported facts’)

      For every instance of that happening, you’ll find an equally big bad attorney that will take the little guy’s case knowing they have the evidence to win the defamation suit and countersue. Juries in civil court aren’t very kind to big bad attorneys that try to bully the little guy.

      This assumes that the little guy wasn’t lazy and didn’t publish verifiably false information.

      But you’re probably right. They probably *did* get the evidence directly from QAnon but then were just too scared to call Dominion’s bluff because their office is in the supply closet of UPS, wedged in between bubble wrap and stamp rolls. Which is too bad because we all would’ve finally seen the hard evidence of Dominion fraud…

  9. Looking forward to Sullum’s in-depth reporting of the Ashli Babbitt murder starting on Thursday, 1/21/21.

    1. Nobody is buying this deflection except your alt-right echo chamber fellow circle jerkers.

      1. That’s a better take than the one you laid out the other day–that shooting unarmed protesters is justified if they’re trespassing on public property.

      2. I figure that once Trump’s out of the limelight, the editors will point him in another direction—one that he does well with based on his coverage of the Tuttle-Nicholas drug raid in Houston.

      3. Not everyone that disagrees with you is an alt-right boogeyman.

        Jesus Christ.

    2. Maybe a comparison case of Ashli Babbitt and Tamir Rice. The police officer was not charged for shooting Rice, should we let the officer shooting Babbitt off as well?

      1. I’m pretty sure just about everyone here thought the officer should have been charged for shooting Rice.

  10. The lady doth protest too much.

    1. Exactly. If Biden put together the biggest election fraud organization in history, why didn’t he use it?

      a. Because he won
      b. Maybe he did
      c. All of the above

  11. “I don’t need you to get me elected, I need you once I’m elected.”

    1. Watch his Nov 4 speech. He grins and winks when he talks about “counting through the night”. Like a big huge grin. It’s such a tell.

      1. Listen to yourself.

        1. Watch Biden. Go to 1:26. A smile a wink and even a chuckle.

        2. Here’s Ralph Jones the Fulton County counting supervisor saying on an official call that they’re going to shut down counting at 10 or 11.

          1. Johnson, get the net. I got a feeling this one isn’t going to leave his q anon mt dew cave willingly.

            1. Shorter DOL: The narrative is set, and I will ignore anything that doesn’t fit the narrative, like my rulers command.

            2. Ad hominem the last resort of those with no argument.

              1. Oh, you think this is an argument? For us to have an argument, there would have to be something to argue over. Too late for that, 62 courtroom losses ago.

                This is the rest of the world having a bit of fun at the cultists’ expense.

                1. You can’t lose a case that’s never been heard.

  12. It’s a well known axiom that security is the enemy of availability.

    There’s one party whose goal is to minimize election security.

    1. Mitch McConnell and the 3 election security bills he let die on his desk?

  13. Sullum’s case of TDS is incurable, untreatable and permanent.

    The discovery process will allow Sidney Powell access to key documents that the courts refused to allow as evidence.

  14. I never believed those crazy stories about Dominion. Until now.

    1. Lol. As often as Reason has been dead wrong, sounds like a good bet.

  15. Trump’s manifest ignorance baffles so many because his skill in building his cult of personality proves that he is not a congenital moron. What Trump is is an insect. In his famous quote arguing for human competency Heinlein said that “…specialization is for insects.” Trump has specialized so completely in self-promotion that he has no other skills, nor even thoughts. Trump is an insect – a very venomous insect. Too many in Conservatism, Inc. were stung.

    “People keep looking to government for the answer and government is the problem.” ~ Ronald Reagan

    1. What do you call record low black unemployment and record high stock market last March?

      1. Weak tea

          1. He’s admitting he hates black people.


    Biden’s transition team has revealed there is a very real fear that members of the national guard who support President Trump might kill Biden during the inauguration so they’ve asked commanders to confiscate all ammo and magazines from the soldiers.

    2/ Biden’s transition team asked if it would be possible to determine which soldiers voted in GOP primaries or who have contributed to GOP candidates so commanders could station them away from the president-elect. The request was refused fueling their fear of attack.

    4/ Biden’s fears started with his Secret Service detail, he had every agent on the White House detailed demoted as he worried about their loyalty to Trump. Democrats think that anyone who supports Trump is a very real threat.

    5/ Even @SpeakerPelosi is fomenting fear by falsely claiming Republican members of Congress are planning to bring guns to the inauguration to intimidate and threaten the president-elect.

    6/ The Army has confirmed they’ve acquiesced to Biden’s demand for security screening for National Guard members who support President Trump.

    1. “FBI vetting 25,000 National Guard troops in DC amid fears of insider attack”

      what does it say when the gov’t can’t trust its own troops. Are the National Guard like ARVN troops in Vietnam?

      Maybe this picture got them worried.

    2. And that would be wrong?

    3. Wow

    4. He sounds like how Herod Antipas and every other paranoid corruptocrat in history sounded.


    CNN “We have to turn down the capability of these Conservative influencers to reach these huge audiences… And then we’re going to have figure out the @newsmax & @OANN problem”.


    This is the most polite insurrection In the history of the world.

    1. A mob of morons that was led by a moron who has a track record of leadership failures was not a polite insurrection. It was a failed insurrection.

      A Putsch, but if Hitler was a twice divorced, countlessly bankrupted tv host instead of a war veteran.

  19. Poor commies at unreason. They are trying to #memoryhole the massive democrat election fraud and unconstitutional changes to election laws.

    El presidente biden is a traitor to the constitution just like the commies at unreason.

    You lefties started civil war 2.0 and wont like how it plays out.

    1. I fought hard for Trump so I know that while people didn’t support Biden personally, they supported his liberal policies, such as medicare for all, GND and many others. That’s why he won, as you would know if you ventured outside your safe space here. In fact Trump lost not because of ‘election fraud’ but because too many of his followers were cowards. And they now claim sour grapes: “Well I didn’t actually support Trump. I think that Biden/Harris is likely to create a backlash against liberal policy and we’ll have more success in 2024.”

      I think the situation could redound to the benefit of libertarians. There’s no way we can get back control of the government. Thus, the only option is to abolish it entirely. Say goodbye to your precious social security and medicare.

      1. Trump got 12 million more votes than last time. How is that cowardly?

        1. And Biden still won by 7 million. Not sure your point.

          Cowardice: “We couldn’t fight for Trump because of censorship. That’s how I know he won.”

          Cowardice: Squabbling with Trump’s allies (like me) on safe spaces like Reason while running from the fight on enemy terrain.

          Cowardice: Claiming to have fought for Trump in enemy terrain while refusing to provide any evidence.

          Of course perhaps you are the rare exception. Congrats but it’s too little too late. My original point stands.

          1. Actually Biden won by 40,000 votes in 3 states.

  20. Imaginary and wacky? Methinks thou doth protest too much.

  21. Lawyers are supposed to be officers of the court. Any lawyer basing legal actions on known and demonstrable falsehoods should be disbarred and penalized with extreme prejudice. Jail time is not at all inappropriate.

    I’m not saying every lawyer who loses a case should go to prison, but if you are making arguments to the court based on lies and you should be well aware that they are lies, that deserves some special kind of punishment. They have a duty to the court to do some basic homework in verifying the facts they present.

    1. So goodbye kamala harris

    2. Every DA gets hanged! Woo hoo!

  22. Way to go Reason.
    Great reporting.
    Now watch the Trumpbots start spinning.

  23. Reason is now “moderating “comments? Has Reddit taken over Reason?

    1. I don’t think they personally, manually, moderate much if at all – ever. But if you try to put more than 1 link in a single comment, the system will auto-moderate you for the rest of eternity.

      1. got it ! Not sure I understand the reason but at least it’s an explanation

    2. Don’t post more than one link in a comment.

      1. Thanks ! Did not know that.

  24. Looking forward to Sydney Powell’s apology / going down in flames for her statements as well. Turns out when you either fabricate BS tall tales or rely on hearsay from biased crackpots, you tend to end up with a shakey legal foundation.

    Hopefully dominion makes a fortune off her.

    Just another reminder that everyone who goes full retard on trump devotion either ends up getting thrown under the bus directly by him, or mangles their career beyond recognition trying to make conform to his delusional reality.

    Ship is about sank, traitors, time for the last of you rats to make the leap.

    1. If by ship you mean country I agree.

    2. Don’t blow your entire $2000 welfare check all at once at the slot machine, loser.

      1. Wow, what clever wit! Did your mommy help you write that?

    1. Do you know of any links to the election fraud that aren’t presented in long-copy sales letter style? I have a long and painful history of this style of writing that makes it almost impossible for me to read without bias…

      Finally revealed: the 5 top secrets
      Democrats use to steal 95% of
      elections, that they are hoping
      you won’t discover…

      Warning: This report is guaranteed to shock you.

      It will destroy your image of perfect American elections…
      … challenge your deeply held beliefs
      … and possibly change your life forever.

      If you’re willing to listen, I’m about to tell you the “untold story” that the mainstream media, big tech, and corrupt politicians are fighting to keep from you.

      This may be uncomfortable, but I promise by the time you’re done, everything will have been laid bare. Every evil deed by Democrats will be exposed, and you will be armed with the information you need to TAKE BACK AMERICA!

      “But why has nothing been done about the massive fraud in the current election?”

      “Why does my liberal brother-in-law say these claims are debunked?”

      It’s because nobody yet has the REAL truth. But I am going to share that with you today. I will lay it out plain as day.

      Have you ever wondered why Big Tech censors these types of reports? Those of us that know the full story understand that this report SCARES big tech and the liberals that are here for your FREEDOMS. Why else would they fight SO hard to silence us? The fact that this report has been banned on Facebook should be evidence enough that we’re on the right track.

      OK, let’s get started.


      Criminals don’t care about truth, only about themselves. If they cared about anything else, then they would want a fair election like we do. But they don’t. And that brings us to our first point:

      The #1 way Democrats cheat to win elections:


      This might seem obvious to you, but it’s not obvious to America. Have to been to a Trump rally? They are exciting. They are ALIVE.
      Trump has ignited something in us because what he says is true.


      So, if you had the wrong message, what would you do? You would steal votes and give them to yourself.


      Seriously though, you’re gonna lose a lot of people just on format alone. Also, you’ll lose people because of the sheer volume of speculation in that document. Thankfully our laws protect the rest of us from being convicted by this sort of speculation and hearsay. Best of luck though…

  25. Just over 50 hours remaining until all you fake libertarian Block Yomommatards of Reason have to check yourselves into Trumpaholics Anonymous!

  26. Remember Jesse et al telling us someone with a career as illustrious as Sidney Powell wouldn’t just make up shit like this? LMAO

    1. JesseBahnFuhrer wouldn’t make up lies either! We need to take the GOOD WORD of JesseBahnFuhrer!

    2. She did not make any of it up. She fell for some pretty obvious nutter “experts” who have been peddling the same stories for some time.

      She should have known better. She was warned by several high profile lawyers, but once she fell for the conspiracy theory, she disregarded all contrary information.

      1. This goes way past “should have known better”. Either she’s been a nut the whole time, and was medicated or able to keep her shit together else wise, or she’s suffering age related cognitive decline of some sort. My take, anyway.

        1. People believe in what they want to hear. I think for the Trumpies it is a traumatic emotional shock that he lost the election. It was not supposed to happen so it didn’t. A kind of mass hysteria.

          I never understood the attraction to begin with.

          1. Yup-yup yo, and a bottle of rum!

            “I never understood the attraction to begin with.”

            Good for you! To fully understand evil, you have to BE evil! So this speak well for the state of your soul!

            The attraction has to do with TWO main things, I think:

            ‘1) The search for scapegoats. Something is wrong (the loss of blue-collar jobs, too many people demanding too many degrees and licenses to perform the simplest of jobs, and more). We must find someone to BLAME! And it is NEVER MEEEE!!!! It is ferriners, DAMMIT!

            ‘2) The perpetual illusion of politics… If I can only grab all the power for MEEEE and MINE, I can abuse others, to MY benefit, and the others will NEVER think of doing the exact same thing, back to me and mine! Just because it works SOME of the time, does NOT make it good “general policy”! But try to explain THAT to evil and greedy people!

      2. Maybe she saw it as a late career gamble. If it’s all BS, then she retires in shame. If it’s true and she makes the case, she has her place in history.
        I wouldn’t go for those odds, but that’s me.

  27. Funny how a threat of litigation helps to clarify “journalistic principles”.

  28. Did Powell actually have a client here? It doesn’t look that way. I am wondering how that will affect her defense in the lawsuit.

  29. Now do the genesis of the Dominion story….

    Who promoted it to these people? Why?

    There was a pretty large and we’ll funded effort to push these “experts” to a certain subset of people.

    The voting machine story did not pass the simplest logic tests. There are paper ballots that can be counted by hand. It was an obvious canard. Yet it ensnared several quite intelligent people. How?

    Who designed this disinformation campaign? And to what end?

    1. Trump and His trumpanzees! “He who whines and cries, and makes up lies, wins the Crown”, these days, it seems! Follow the POWAH!

      If you need proof of what I say, read Desperate To Stop Biden From Taking Office, Trump Suggests Military Intervention, Voting Machine Seizures, and Appointing Sidney Powell To Investigate Her Own Fraud Claims

    2. The voting machine’s did not pass the simplest of security tests.

      Texas turned it down because of vulnerability. Oh; but sure, sure; GA did a recount of which was INSTRUCTED to use the original machine count if possible. As well as finding multiple-thousands of ‘un-scanned’ ballots?

      All hail the “officials” for what they say is gods own words.

      1. Also Rathensberger ordered a software update days before the election that decertified all the Dominion machines.

    3. And if the paper ballots are fraudulent?

      1. Then they need to be run 3-Times in order to make them legitimate?

  30. Once the ballots are harvested you can count them as many times as you like.

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  32. I barely followed the original saga, but I do want to still assert that “Dominion” is a really bad name for a voting systems company. It really brings the wrong kind of government to mind.

  33. One thing for sure is that in filing lawsuits Dominion is now open to discovery. So they are certain that they did nothing wrong.

    1. Where would conservatism be without the Dominions that gave us Neocans like Mark Steyn & David Frum ?

      1. Where is David Frum? And Who is on first base? Oh, and, where is Waldo?

        (All I know is… Dave’s not here!)
        Cheech and Chong-Dave’s not here.wmv

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    1. The Jeddah Knights will save us all? Can they save us from Der TrumpfenFuhrer and His Trumpanzees? How much would it cost me, to have the Jeddah Knights buy for me, a pardon from Der TrumpfenFuhrer and His Trumpanzees, my conviction for illegal blowing upon cheap plastic flutes?

      To find precise details on what NOT to do, to avoid the flute police, please see … This has been a pubic service, courtesy of the Church of SQRLS!

  35. Who is the best lawyer in Riyadh محامي في الرياض : and what is his number? The question many of us ask each other when dealing with legal issues. Really, where do I find the best lawyer in Riyadh suitable for all legal cases, including commercial cases, divorce, personal status, transfer of property, checks and labor courts?

  36. At this point we have so much on both sides complete fiction (most of what the media was pushing on the Russia hoax and the poor Covington Kentucky kids from the left) that no one believes anything from the “other side.” On the election I honestly do not know why the govt started to use all these scanning the very least they call into question voting as the “vote” goes into the electronic world instead of the old mechanical gear machines used when I was a young adult. You selected the toggle..and pulled the lever and the votes were counted. For older people who usually are the ones “running” elections it was very easy to count the votes and phone them in. why did this have to change? Moving to fully electronic systems just created lots of mistrust…go back to the old ways.

    1. Titus PUllo… Are you, by any chance, related to Titus Bursitis? The one whose dancer stage name at Chippendales is “Titus Bursitis Exciteus, Delightus, Igniteus, and Biteus”?

      1. No but I heard he was very popular with housewives in the East Side

    2. Some cunt child got his fee fees hurt and an undisclosed sum for being characterized by TV pundits. Truly the worst humanitarian disaster in modern history.

      You people can’t take over the government because you have been made incredibly, incredibly stupid.

      1. Destroy a 17 year old because he smiled the wrong way? Seriously…”well the kid deserved it..he went to DC to protest abortion”?

        1. You are seriously still whining about this one kid from forever ago.

          And you think you have the best governing ideas. And that you’re definitely not in a cult where people tell you exactly, to the letter, what to think.

          Yeah, it’s a fucked up strange planet we’re on.

  37. Everyone got a little caught up in the moment. How silly they were being. But white people facing consequences for their crimes? What country is this anyway? We explicitly set it up to control people we don’t like, not us. The very idea of conservatives having to face legal problems for their shameless incessant mind-rattling lies is absurd.

    1. LOL, Tony you are a cunt. But just between us girls, is it Oklahoma cuntiness in particular or just your own special brand? As a Cali girl I can state unequivocally that we cultivate our own flavor of cunt here on the best coast but I like to think I put my own personal spin on the world renowned California Cunt. Kind of like the Avocado Advisory Board.

  38. Yea sure believe every word of it. Election fraud was a fantasy. What a dope.

  39. This was such a shit strategy. In effect, Trump & Co were down 1 (or whatever), left the game in the hands of the referee (at best) and once time had expired and the ref’s call didn’t go their their way, started claiming the ref was corrupt (too little, too late).

    The RNC should have stepped in and conceded the election sooner rather than later. Made the case for and focused on GA and winning at least one of the two Senate seats during the run-off. Chill out and let the Left eat itself for two years.

    Regardless, the shit-show will continue, but with fewer stop-gaps / firewalls.

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