George Floyd

Even Police Unions Trash the Actions of the Cop Who Killed George Floyd

Are we seeing a tipping point where police begin to grasp why the public is so outraged?

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After New York City Police Department (NYPD) officer Daniel Pantaleo was videotaped confronting and choking Eric Garner to death in 2014, public outrage over what had happened was fueled in part by defiant police unions in the city who refused to consider the possibility that Pantaleo's conduct was unacceptable and unnecessary.

Even after Panatleo's eventual termination—which only happened five years later—organizations like the Police Benevolent Association took Pantaleo's side, calling for work slowdowns (which backfired as crime continued to decline in New York City without their help). The unions generally acted like both mayor and police commissioner had betrayed the police by holding an officer responsible for killing somebody under circumstances in which it was completely unnecessary to protect public safety.

This has long been typical police union behavior, which makes some of the union responses to the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis on Monday surprising. Police unions are coming forward not to defend Derek Chauvin, the police officer who pressed his knee on Floyd's neck for nearly eight minutes, but to agree that Chauvin's behavior was inappropriate and unacceptable.

Last night, police officer associations for San Francisco, San Jose, and Oakland, California, put out a joint statement about Floyd's death:

"What we saw in the video was inconsistent and contrary to everything we have been taught, not just as an academy recruit or a police officer, but as human beings. Reverence for life in every incident a police officer encounters must be the floor and not the ceiling. … We are equally disturbed by not seeing any of the other officers on scene intervene to prevent this tragedy."

Nashville's chapter of the Fraternal Order of Police described the treatment of Floyd as "indefensible actions [that] violated the oath and tarnished the reputation that the brave men and women of law enforcement have worked so hard to attain."

The president of the national Fraternal Order of Police, Patrick Yoes, has even come forward and, in a bit more of a circumspect fashion, declined to defend Chauvin's actions.

"Based on the by-stander's video from this incident, we witnessed a man in distress pleading for help," Yoes said in a statement. "The fact that he was a suspect in custody is immaterial—police officers should at all times render aid to those who need it. Police officers need to treat all of our citizens with respect and understanding and should be held to the very highest standards for their conduct."

Police chief associations and individual chiefs have also been denouncing Chauvin's treatment of Floyd, though that's slightly less surprising. While some chiefs choose to give cover to bad cops, some others (particularly in larger cities) are more than willing to fire them, only to have their actions overruled by appeals processes (pushed by and heavily controlled by police unions, in many cases) that put these officers back on the force, often against a police chief or sheriff's will.

So far, the Police Officers Federation of Minneapolis appears to be taking a diplomatic route, simply stating, "Officers' actions and training protocol will be carefully examined after the officers have provided their statements," and asking people not to rush to judgment.

It's worth noting as a positive that police unions are looking at Floyd's death and seeing what a lot of the rest of us see. Maybe this will be an opportunity for them to reflect more on the public outrage surrounding previous killings by cops as well.

NEXT: In Future Crises, Let People Make Their Own Decisions

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  1. Are we seeing a tipping point where police begin to grasp why the public is so outraged?

    No. It’s called being sorry you got caught, not sorry for what you did. The remorse fades quickly.

    1. You get it. At least they’re finally throwing some officers under the bus. If they can at least get some manslaughter charges going, this could be a turning point. Although nothing short of a murder one charge followed by immediate public castration and hanging is going to satiate the rioters.

      1. Yes, the rioters want a lynching; it won’t satisfy them.

        Also, even manslaughter will be difficult to argue under Minnesota law, which is why the city is dragging their feet on charging him. Lets say they do charge him, and he’s cleared in trial because his actions don’t meet the definition of manslaughter under the law. Nobody rioting now be satisfied. Its a kabuki show.

        It looks to me like the cops used unnecessary force and it may have contributed to Floyd’s death. I hope the cop and the police department as a whole take accountability for that. It doesn’t mean the death was intentional, and criminal charges are going to be difficult. Justice in the end is about due process, not something I think the rioters want.

        1. This won’t stop until white people recognize their white privilege and unconscious racial biases. We need to heal America’s racial division by letting people of color take positions of power in the government and taxing white people to form a race reparations fund. Together, whites and people of color can be united as one in this great country. Just look how South Africa has excelled under the rule of people of color! Onward to racial justice!

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          3. Be careful of that South Africa example. Since the change in constitution there the situation could be described as African National Congress poobahs in charge, and bribed and corrupted rather than serving their constituency of black folks. Anger is rising among the black population at the failure to deliver on those long ago promises, blacks are again singing the old songs like ‘Kill the Boer’ and younger politicians promising to take back the land from White farmers are gaining voters.

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            2. well trump and co already engage in wholesale grift. wait till they publish who got relief funds. so we got that box checked. hero of the libertarians’ like musk and zukcer and bezos got filthier richer along with more mundane hedge fund dudes and pharma.

          4. I was with you until taxing white people. I’m not even opposed to some form of reparations, but it should come out of a general tax fund, not a specific tax on white people.

            That’s tantamount to blaming all white people, and would do only one thing, further divide us. I’ve despised racism all my life, but I do not want a punitive tax for being white.

            1. You got that right. A special tax on white people, what a great way to promote racial harmony.

        2. If you shoot someone intending to wound instead of kill, you think that gets you off of murder?

          1. “If you shoot someone intending to wound instead of kill, you think that gets you off of murder?”

            Well if yes, if you can get a jury to believe you legitimately were trying to wound and the person was killed instead. You would likely be convicted of negligent homicide, but not of murder.

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        3. Yes, the rioters want a lynching; it won’t satisfy them.

          And he SHOULD be lynched. Fucking POS.

          1. No. He should be tried, convicted if the facts support the charges, and sentenced appropriately. Why is this hard?

          2. If you believe in justice, true justice, it has to be for everyone, even the worst.

            Otherwise you don’t believe in justice and don’t deserve it yourself.

          3. POS?

        4. I was going to reference Kabuki also. Nothing is going to satisfy the rioters. And, on the one hand, I can sort of understand why. Black Lives Matter has been playing off the well entrenched feelings of persecution to (for their agenda) good effect. That the police unions are too effective at protecting apes that should be fired and prosecuted is, to my mind, unarguable. That the cops often get away with lying in the face of evidence is also unarguable.

          And it isn’t as if, as some people are wont to claim, that this is a matter of racial tendencies; the poor of whatever race, in cities, have a tendency to riot; history is full of examples. Look at the New York Draft Riots of the Civil War; mostly poor WHITE rioters.

          OTOH, the riot isn’t going to make anything better. And there ain’t much the authorities can do NOW that will help with THIS mess. The decision to let the riot continue is one of many bad choices available, and not necessarily the worst. Put now the riot, with the force that would be necessary and what you are doing is putting the lid back on a pressure cooker.

          IF, you then, quickly and VERY publicly address a raft of the MAJOR problems – break the power of the LEO Union to protect violent cops, fire a bunch of the worst, replace a LOT of the training cadre (fairly or not, back WAY the hell off military style dynamic entry raids – then MAYBE you could bleed off enough pressure so that another riot (probably worse) isn’t inevitable.

          Given the authoritarian bent of many city administrations, that isn’t too likely.b

          1. The people behind the cops and the people behind the rioters are… the same people

            1. To a great extent, yes. The Fascist Left LOVES this kind of thing; it further cements the Rioters to the Democrats who express sympathy, further cements the cops to the LEO Unions and thus to the Democrat Party, It amps up the Cops vs Poor dynamic, while distracting both from recognizing their ACTUAL political enemies; the Fascist Left.

              This has gotten so out of hand so fast that I’m beginning to wonder if it isn’t a set up. Some kind of panic reaction to multiple polls showing that Trump is taking some part off the Black Vote away from the Party os slavery, segregation, and Klan.

              1. Fascist Left, that’s an oxymoron.

                Key traits of fascism are nationalism and traditionalism. Without those you don’t have fascism, you have something else.

            2. Lizard people perhaps?

              Nothing just happens in the mind of the conspiracy theorist. Everything is carefully orchestrated by a super seeekrit nefarious group.

        5. Yes, we need to see the medical examiner’s report on the cause of death. The prosecution will have to establish a causal relationship between the way Floyd was held down and his ultimate demise. There may not have been one as the pressure was to the side of the neck, not the front. Most likely the delay in sentencing was due to the need to obtain an expert opinion that the cop contributed to the death. Also, the officer is going to argue he had to protect himself from Covid virus and was not in possession of a face shield. He’ll argue holding Floyd’s head down with his knee enabled him to keep his face well away from Floyd.

          So, the case will be complicated and for sure the result is not likely to satisfy the protesters.

        6. redfish wrote “Also, even manslaughter will be difficult to argue under Minnesota law,”

          Then it is past time to change the Minnesota law.

        7. you kid brother knees your neck for 8 minutes, let me know how you feel

          then when your mom takes your pulse and its zero he keeps his knee on your neck for another minute or 2.

          would you say your brother was unintentionally hurting you?

      2. Where were the rioters when this happened?

        1. She doesn’t fit the narrative. she’s a Karen so who cares?

          /sarc in case you couldn’t tell.

        2. I don’t know about rioters but there were vigils and protest marches immediately after the Justine Damond murder.

          It’s also worth noting that Damond was immediately shot as she walked up to the police car and “startled” the cop. While clearly unjustified (the shooting officer was sentenced to 12.5 years in prison), there was no evidence that the incident was premeditated or motivated by prejudice. Floyd on the other hand was killed over a period of 8 minutes despite repeated calls for medical attention both by the suspect and bystanders and in the presence of multiple other cops who could have intervened.

      3. The police unions are in a perfect position to police the police themselves, if they’ll only take up the task seriously.

    2. If we want to change America so it is no longer a racist, police state, we MUST vote for Joe Biden this November. Democrats, like Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris, have decades of experience supporting civil liberties and reigning in the use of wanton police violence.

      1. Dude, you’re even worse at this than OBL.

        1. He just repeats the same old lines. I’m trying to post things relevant to the articles that I don’t read. Do you have any tips?

          1. Don’t stop, you’re doing an excellent job mocking the PFLs.

      2. Kamala Harris has a horrific record of railroading innocent men into prison and then weaponizing every technicality of the law to keep them from even getting their day in court to prove it! Kamala Harris isn’t worthy to shovel horse manure behind a parade! She’s the embodiment of a corrupt prosecutor. Look up her misconduct record. She’s been censured for misconduct before!

        1. While I fully agree, you’re replying to a parody account (one of the better ones here).

    3. Which is why we need to replace the Surveillance State with ubiquitous survellance of the state. Point all the cameras at the cops.

      1. Agreed. Now all we need is a bunch of senators and congress critters that think that the government needs more oversight and accountability and will go to blows with police and teacher’s unions to achieve this. I’m counting…….yep, 0.

    4. The Christian always swears a bloody oath that he will never do it again. The civilized man simply resolves to be a bit more careful next time. H.L. Mencken

    5. But with cameras and live streaming becomes ubiquitous, they’re going to get caught every time. This behavior is going to stay in the public eye from now until it stops and people are just going to get madder and madder. The real question is what will the politicians do? As rioting ramps up with each new case of brutality will they support “law and order” or will they support “social justice”? We’ll see.

      1. The real question is will it matter if the Racism horse can’t be flogged?
        My hopes are not up

        1. The real solution is, of course, for police to just be more brutal to whites and asians.

          1. That’s what happened with arrest procedures. Handcuffs, strip searches and body cavity probes weren’t always inviolable standard procedure. When civil rights activists started complaining that Blacks were more often subjected to those indignities, police responded by treating every arrestee like a farm animal.

          2. It doesn’t get news coverage, but police tend to be just as brutal with poor white trash.

            1. It’s been getting coverage for decades. It’s a little show called Cops. It’s considered a comedy.

    6. I don’t think it’s even that, I think it’s because all the cops in other cities now have to deal with this and are “in danger”. Same reason that the cop who shot Justine Damond was arrested, it wasn’t because he killed her, it was because he endangered his partner by shooting past him inside the car.

    7. End the police unions.

  2. It’s a surprise that even the Bay Area police say that. It’s a huge surprise that others do. Maybe some of those cops are finally getting nervous. The Minneapolis police haven’t won any friends, that’s for sure, what with arresting peaceful people defending their property, letting their police station burn, arresting a TV reporter on live camera (although I guess that was state police, but still … same tarnish and same brush), so maybe this is partly a gut reaction to cops who put them in a bad light … but even if that is all it is, it is still progress of a sort.

    1. The San Francisco police department should be a model for the rest of America. If there is no violence, police intervention is not necessary. Sure, some people have defecated on the sidewalk, shot up heroin in the alleyways, and stolen goods from stores but at least there isn’t a culture of police brutality.

      1. You haven’t lived in San Francisco for long, have you? These guys are every bit as bad as those in New York.

        1. The obvious solution is more minority outreach. Racism and bigotry is practically engrained in the DNA of white people.

          1. Rabbi, would you go farther and just say “stop arresting anyone of color?” Then there would be no cop on minority violence at all.

            1. If there is no violence on the part of the person of color, yes. However, when violence is absent, the life of a black man is worth more than the physical assets of all white people. Material goods can be replaced, black lives cannot. If a black man accidentally takes possession of some store good, a vehicle, or a domicile inhabited by a white person, the civil courts should resolve the issue, not the police.

              1. So you would also be fine with any color of person taking the positions of other people’s property if there was no violence?

                After all possessions can be replaced when the doors is accidentally smashed in at Target stores in Minneapolis and several dozen people accidentally walked though and then accidentally carry out 56 inch flatscreen televisions and everything else.

                Looters are looters regardless of color, thugs are thugs regardless of color. When young men devote their young lives determined to impress on the public that they are “Bad Ass”, why is it a surprise when some of the public actually believe them?

          2. “Racism and bigotry is practically engrained in the DNA of white people.”

            Saying people possess traits genetically by race is kinda the definition of racism, just sayin.

    2. Ordinary utilitarianism in action. The looters will throw the occasional murderer to the just rewards in the arena. Confiscating the cop car used in the murder and selling it off via asset-forfeiture for restitution… THAT could change laws and practices quicker’n you can say “cheeze it!”

    3. It’s no surprise. It’s not one of their officers, so it’s easy to throw him under the bus. We’ll see how they react when it’s one of their own.

  3. Call me cynical but I think they are just willing to cut these officers loose to defend themselves from actual reforms.

    1. Sure, but if they keep it up they’ll run out of officers.

      1. What’s the down side?

        1. Ask that question when the looters are in your yard…

          1. They’ll be disappointed.

          2. As if the cops were protecting anyone from looters.

          3. If theyre on my property, I already know it.

            And they are the ones that would be hoping for police backup in that scenario. Good luck to ’em

            If you put your faith in the police to rescue you, and cant defend your own…well, you’re not in the right forum

      2. Or maybe we’ll get rid of the bad ones and the culture can be reformed.

  4. Apparently those police unions weren’t given a heads up about the new policy that the cops were demonstrating.

    Or maybe, since the cop with the knee on the dudes neck actually knew the guy having worked with him for years at a bar up til last year, this was all just a staged psyop.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11736609/george-floyd-cop-worked-together-minneapolis/

    1. So the guy had a short fuse and routinely pepper sprayed customers but she still employed him for 17 years?

      1. “When there was an altercation he always resorted to pulling out his mace and pepper spraying everybody right away, even if I felt it was unwarranted,” Maya said.

        That wording is really odd coming from the owner. Kinda sounds like she had no choice in continuing to employ this cop.

        Maya admits she does not know if the pair knew each other as the business employed two dozen security guards

        24 security guards? Is this Minneapolis or the Gaza Strip?

        1. 24 security guards? Is this Minneapolis or the Gaza Strip?
          Don’t worry. In a couple of years, it won’t make any difference.

        2. First of all it’s not unheard of for the the local cops to put pressure on bars to hire on officers as bouncers. This is generally done by making things harder on the staff if they don’t, slow response times, unwillingness to arrest people, and even things like chalking tires can and have happened. There are also other rent seeking behavior like local unions or required license, required insurance etc that can mean dealing with a contractor with ties to the police.

          As far as the staff, for a large club that sounds right, especially if it’s multi story, or has a venue attached. Most bouncers are part time, and a club in a large city may have a handful on slow nights, going up to around 10 on prime nights. Plus extras on call to fill the numbers can get up there fast.

          1. It would be interesting if the city gave tax rebates to businesses that hire their own security.

        3. Minneapolis has a large population of refugees from violent shitholes. The need for heavy security at a club doesn’t surprise me.

        4. It was a Latin dance club in Minneapolis. They needed all that security in case a hockey game broke out.

      2. Look, when you dance with the devil, you wait for the music to stop.

    2. Also check out the pic at the end of that article by the sun. It’s a white dude pouring vodka into a black dudes mouth.

      I don’t think things are gonna go quite like the media wants them to. They may get their “us vs them” scenario fulfilled, but not in the way they anticipated.

      1. I stayed up all night watching live feeds from the riots in Minneapolis and Columbus. I’d guess about half the protestors at both cities were white. Also, a surprising proportion were women.

    3. Police need more training, especially diversity / inclusion classes. Death should never be the outcome of an interaction with the police. Even when deadly force is justified, police need to be trained to shoot at the kneecaps of attacking suspects. America should be better than this!

      1. “Even when deadly force is justified, police need to be trained to shoot at the kneecaps of attacking suspects. America should be better than this!”

        They should use boomerangs. Like Australian cops do!

      2. Actually, the cops should shoot at the right ear lobe. Nobody needs two ear lobes.

    4. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

      You don’t have any evidence of that at all, let alone extraordinary evidence.

  5. Minnesota Department of Public Safety Commissioner John Harrington said he just received information that the officer identified as Derek Chauvin in the death of George Floyd has been taken into custody by the Bureau of Criminal apprehenson [sic].

    There was no more information on charging, because that’s in the jurisdiction of the Hennepin County Attorney, Harrington said.

    Harrington only mentioned that one officer had been arrested; no word yet on the other three Minneapolis police officers who have been fired.

    https://www.startribune.com/walz-confronts-criticism-over-protests-investigation/570864092/

    Are we looking at possible homicide charges here? If the authorities are looking to placate the mob, they better hope they’ve correctly read their mood. People are out for blood. They won’t be content with limpwristed manslaughter charges. They’ll be demanding murder — second degree, if not first degree, especially now that it’s come out the perp and the vic knew each other. Are prosecutors up to the task, or will they knuckle under to police pressure?

    1. Isn’t first degree premeditated though? That would be harder to prove than someone just not recognizing another. And if they go 1st degree and fail – doesn’t the cop walk?

      1. From the Minnesota statutes:

        609.185 MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE.
        (a) Whoever does any of the following is guilty of murder in the first degree and shall be sentenced to imprisonment for life:

        (1) causes the death of a human being with premeditation and with intent to effect the death of the person or of another;

        (2) causes the death of a human being while committing or attempting to commit criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence, either upon or affecting the person or another;

        (3) causes the death of a human being with intent to effect the death of the person or another, while committing or attempting to commit burglary, aggravated robbery, kidnapping, arson in the first or second degree, a drive-by shooting, tampering with a witness in the first degree, escape from custody, or any felony violation of chapter 152 involving the unlawful sale of a controlled substance;

        (4) causes the death of a peace officer, prosecuting attorney, judge, or a guard employed at a Minnesota state or local correctional facility, with intent to effect the death of that person or another, while the person is engaged in the performance of official duties;

        (5) causes the death of a minor while committing child abuse, when the perpetrator has engaged in a past pattern of child abuse upon a child and the death occurs under circumstances manifesting an extreme indifference to human life;

        (6) causes the death of a human being while committing domestic abuse, when the perpetrator has engaged in a past pattern of domestic abuse upon the victim or upon another family or household member and the death occurs under circumstances manifesting an extreme indifference to human life; or

        (7) causes the death of a human being while committing, conspiring to commit, or attempting to commit a felony crime to further terrorism and the death occurs under circumstances manifesting an extreme indifference to human life.

        609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
        Subdivision 1. Intentional murder; drive-by shootings. Whoever does either of the following is guilty of murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
        (1) causes the death of a human being with intent to effect the death of that person or another, but without premeditation; or

        (2) causes the death of a human being while committing or attempting to commit a drive-by shooting in violation of section 609.66, subdivision 1e, under circumstances other than those described in section 609.185, paragraph (a), clause (3).

        Subd. 2. Unintentional murders. Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
        (1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or

        (2) causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim, when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order. As used in this clause, “order for protection” includes an order for protection issued under chapter 518B; a harassment restraining order issued under section 609.748; a court order setting conditions of pretrial release or conditions of a criminal sentence or juvenile court disposition; a restraining order issued in a marriage dissolution action; and any order issued by a court of another state or of the United States that is similar to any of these orders.

        I am not a lawyer, so I am genuinely curious: How much premeditation is required to fulfill the criteria for first-degree murder? Eight minutes of pressing your knee into someone’s neck seems like an ample amount of time to realize your actions are going to result in the death of another.

        1. //Eight minutes of pressing your knee into someone’s neck seems like an ample amount of time to realize your actions are going to result in the death of another.//

          Probably.

          1. Didn’t a recent court decision state cops do not have to be aware that blatant stealing is illegal? If LEOs are not required to know the most basic *legal* principles, how can they be held responsible for knowing *physiology*?

            1. No, the court ruled that LEO’s don’t necessarilly know that stealing goods confiscated under a warrant would violate the owners civil rights.

              *Technically*, according to the court, those cops stole from the state – who had confiscated those goods and thus had possession – not the owner.

          2. if there’s no court precedent that expressly says 8 minutes of one’s knee on another’s neck is not allowed, you can’t expect to railroad these officers. how could they have known??

        2. “Eight minutes of pressing your knee into someone’s neck seems like an ample amount of time to realize your actions are going to result in the death of another.”

          What’s interesting is that the “we didn’t get trained!” excuse probably won’t hold water because their training manual identifies the right and wrong way to do what the cop did, and specifies that only cops who have been trained are allowed to use that technique.

          So he was either trained and didn’t follow his training, or he wasn’t trained and therefor not allowed to use the technique in the first place. Either way, “I didn’t know better” isn’t gonna fly.

        3. “Eight minutes of pressing your knee into someone’s neck seems like an ample amount of time to realize your actions are going to result in the death of another.”

          No, not going to work in court, unless he intended the person to die.

          There’s a reason we don’t normally charge people with murder for negligent deaths. Its because justice — real justice — is about protecting people and ensuring restitution — not about satiating people’s emotions and need for revenge — and putting the cop in jail for life wouldn’t protect anyone or give anyone restitution, it would just be about bloodlust.

          The second option is manslaughter. But even the manslaughter statute under MN law says the person needs to have a ‘conscious understanding’ that he’s putting the person at the risk of dying, and its going to be hard to prove.

          But, this is what I mean. Lots of people don’t care about what the law is designed for, they just want the cop lynched.

          1. Minnesota has third-degree murder, which is the same as depraved heart murder under common law. It does not require an intent to kill.

        4. He just needs to take action with the knowledge or intent to kill.
          Premeditation doesn’t require any more planning than that involved in “I’m going to kill” a split second before taking action

        5. As I understand it, there is no time limit for premeditation. It simply means that the decision to kill was made prior to commencing the action that caused the death.

    2. They should skip the trial and proceed directly to public lynching of former Officer Chauvin. If former Officer Chauvin is eventually found innocent, there will be a second peaceful riot. We’ve seen this before when charged were dropped against the cop who murdered the gentle giant, Michael Brown.

      1. Agreed. Due process is sometimes unnecessary and someone just had to die. Accidental or not, Chauvin should be executed like that elephant that trampled people.

        1. Who’s got the power? We’ve got the power! #BlackLivesMatter

        2. #rememberharambe

      2. All they need to do is withdraw police protection from Chauvin. The mob would then take care of the lynching themselves.

  6. Brian Bakst @Stowydad · 33m
    @MinnesotaDFL postpones its virtual convention amid #georgefloyd situation. Balloting had already started and endorsement in #mnsen to be announced later. @SenTinaSmith is seeking a new term.

    Why the heck would you suspend a virtual convention? It’s not like anyone is in physical danger.

  7. So now the guy is officially a “former policeman,” emphasis on the “former” – that is, he might get treated harshly, maybe even like a “civilian” who responded to an alleged attacker by putting his knee on the alleged attacker’s neck for several minutes.

    (I say alleged attacker because I’m just going to give the cop’s best-case scenario, not because I know who was the initial aggressor)

    1. In other words, Chauvinism.

  8. Real easy to Tweet about it. I’ll believe we’ve reached a tipping point when those cowards are in jail for manslaughter at the very least. There’s still a lot of opportunity for the justice system to fuck this up, and I don’t think it’ll be on accident if it happens.

    Also, if anyone else had done this they’d have been placed under arrest. If what he did was so obviously bad that it resulted in his immediate firing, where the fuck are the criminal charges? What we saw on tape is clearly manslaughter, quit pussyfooting around and arrest that piece of shit if you want people to believe you get it.

    1. Chauvin has been arrested, as I pointed out above.

    2. Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman called the disturbing arrest footage filmed on Monday night in Minneapolis “graphic, horrible, and terrible“.

      “No person should do that,” he told reporters at a Thursday evening press conference.

      When asked about a charging decision for the officers involved, including Officer Derek Chauvin, Freeman deferred, saying instead that it would be a “violation of my ethics” to do so.

      “My job in the end is to prove [Chauvin] violated a criminal statute, and there is other evidence that does not support a criminal charge,” Freeman said.

      “I will not rush to justice because justice will not be rushed,” he added.

      I love the caption on a photo at the bottom of the article: “Minnesotans survey the damage caused by rioters during the mostly peaceful protests.” Uh, what?

      1. Wasn’t aware he had been arrested yet, thanks for the pointer and it’s at least a start.

        Interesting to see what other evidence he has that wouldn’t support a criminal charge. I find it hard to believe that anything the suspect did warranted being slowly choked to death while handcuffed and face down on the ground.

        1. Did he say ‘stop resisting’ in the video? That is the dog whistle.

          1. The classic multiple contradictory orders from multiple officers. Officer A shouts “STOP RESISTING” while Officer B shouts “ROLL OVER”. When you try to obey Officer B, Officer A sees that you’re resisting and the rest is history.

            I dunno if that actually happened here, but it is a theme with these things. If they give you enough orders in rapid succession you’re bound to not follow one of them, and then it’s an officer safety issue and we know how that usually gets resolved.

          2. No, he was weirdly silent the entire time he had his knee on Floyd’s neck.

      2. “the mostly peaceful protests.” Uh, what?

        The *virtual* protests, DUH!

  9. “Reverence for life in every incident a police officer encounters must be the floor and not the ceiling.”

    Unless, of course, a brave officer fears for his life. Or a suspect resists. Or does not obey commands that a brave officer is giving. Then officer safety becomes paramount.

    Sounds like these union thugs are just trying to save face, as this might be the most egregious cop murder yet (in a long line of fucking egregious police behavior). Fuck police unions. Fuck all the cops that hid behind the thin blue line and didn’t turn in their scumbag colleagues. And fuck all the prosecutors that don’t charge murdering ass cops with murder.

    1. It reads to me like a bunch of cops who realize the entire country is pissed off about this, and are hoping that some tweets will prevent rioting in their city. It costs nothing and has some upside, whereas the alternatives involve actual work.

      You don’t get to be the head of a police department by having a moral compass, so these guys pretending that this murder offends their delicate sensibilities is fucking rich.

    2. Don’t blame me. I’ve voted libertarian the last 37 elections. This routine murder would not even be in the news were it not for LP spoiler votes.

      1. I knew you were a time traveler

  10. It’s about comin up, and staying on top…

  11. I believe after the rioting has dies down and the public’s attention has been diverted the Police Unions will quietly go back to supporting these officers, even possibly trying to get their jobs back.

    It will be a while before a lot of evidence is available, especially the autopsy to confirm the cause of death.

    1. “Confirm the cause of death”? You mean there’s a chance that Floyd would have dropped dead at that moment anyway?

    2. No autopsy yet? On TV they get autopsy results in about 3hours. If asphixiation is not found, watch out.

      1. In the real world it can take weeks to get autopsy results.

  12. You know what else contributed to the riots? A ten week long largely unnecessary lockdown. People, in general are pissed. Add an ‘in particular’ reason, and it was a spark to, not tinder, but an accelerant.

    The police accross the country are also taking a pounding have to ‘enforce’ crappy orders. Chase people out church, and out of parks. This isn’t an excuse or a way to make them sympathetic. But it maybe is making them, the police, more empathetic to what is going on around them and how they are viewed.

    Also, we really, really need to return to the peace officer model, rather than the enforcement officer model of policing communities.

    1. Yeah, is there anyone the cops haven’t pissed off this year? Heroes to zeros.

    2. And even more so, the constant cry of “RACISM!!!”

    3. And all the Karens now sympathizing with the rioters clapped like trained seals when cops were dragging people away for not wearing masks. They’re “grandma killers”, you know.

  13. I was discussing this late last night with one of my friends who is a police officer in Miami. He said that this case was unusual in that absolutely nobody at the precinct was defending them.

    Usually even the most egregious cases gave at least a couple of “Police One” types who will pull a Dunphy and claim that the totality of the circumstances show that the police were in the right. Not this time. He couldn’t remember a case where that was true.

    Something about the casual 8-minute strangulation put it so far over the line that even the worst offenders are not going to take up the mantle and defend them.

    1. Usually even the most egregious cases

      The only case I can think of that’s even in this ballpark is the pest control guy in Arizona.

      1. The homeless guy they beat to death in San Fran.

        1. The homeless guy was a young schizophrenic IIRC? Someone please post a link for that.

      2. Walter Scott
        Fernando Castile
        Eric Garner

        1. Oops – Philando Castile

  14. Biden has the gall to even speak up on this issue given his years of siding with increased law enforcement and military actions.

    Fucking governor and mayor are democrats. Watch them slough off responsibly and blame everyone they can.

    Remove them from office Election Day.

    1. And replace them with what? We’re not going to be permitted real choices.

  15. But really, can’t we all agree at this point that all cops are bad cops?

    1. Pretty much. There are bad cops, and their collaborators.

  16. Cynical ass-covering, front back and sides.

    The Minneapolis police department, which has a history of misconduct allegations and racist violence, is represented itself by a powerful union. The Minneapolis Police Union has continued to offer “warrior-style training” to any officers that want it, despite the city’s mayor putting a ban on the style of training last year, which was linked to the shooting of Philando Castile in 2016.

    Minneapolis Police Union needs to be prohibited by law. Too bad it won’t happen.

    1. All public employee unions need to be prohibited by law. Even FDR held that position.

      1. As much as I’d like to agree with you, government employees are still technically people and have a right to free association.

        That said, like all other union vs. employer situation I think the employer should have the right to fire all the union employees and replace them at any time and for any reason. You’re free to associate, you are not free from the consequences of your association.

        1. Except that in the case of public employees, the employer is the public. When the police union negotiates a contract with the city council, it’s just one group of public employees negotiating with another set of public employees and where are the employers in all this? If you adhere to the “we the people” model of government, public employees are themselves also citizens and therefore the government and how can you unionize against yourself? That’s the basis of sovereign immunity – if the people themselves are the sovereign, suing the state is essentially suing yourself, isn’t it?

        2. Yes, they have a right to freely associate all they like. But government should be prohibited from recognizing or contracting with them.

          1. Correct:
            ‘Your union is perfectly legal; I do not have to negotiate with it.

        3. It is not an issue of free association. Public employee union members are a significant portion of the population that get to hire and fire (elect) their employer. There is no universe in which that is not an irreconcilable conflict of interest. It is one thing to threaten management that if they don’t concede you will strike. It is another thing completely to threaten to fire management, threaten to not protect management from fire or not provide management police protection if they don’t concede.

          The courts should have disallowed their contracts long ago as they are not bargained for in good faith.

  17. Are we seeing a tipping point where police begin to grasp why the public is so outraged?

    Do you spergs really not understand why this case is so much worse than others?

    1. Not sure if I’m a “sperg”, but maybe you can explain it. There have been thousands of egregious cases.

      1. There are no mitigating factors. It’s not a matter of getting in some extra blows after a chase and/or fight. It’s not an overreaction or misunderstanding. There’s absolutely nothing about this that makes an honest person say “there but for the grace of God.” It’s simply 9 minutes of continuous deadly street justice for a non-violent criminal.

        1. I wish I could agree that this case stands out, but I’m not seeing it.

          1. Other famous cases:

            Rodney King was the conclusion of a high speed chase.

            Walter Scott was after a foot chase and fight.

            Philando Castille had been smoking weed in his car and had a really long record (all traffic tickets).

            Tamir Rice was waving an airsoft gun and the cops weren’t told the 911 caller said it was probably fake.

            1. Smoking weed isn’t a reason to shoot someone, nor is a long record of traffic tickets. There are literally dozensof cases as egregious as George Floyd.

              1. Smoking weed isn’t a reason to shoot someone, nor is a long record of traffic tickets.

                Why are you lying about a comment everyone can read?

              2. There are literally dozensof cases as egregious as George Floyd.

                Name them.

                1. Check any police accountability site and do your own fucking homework.

  18. I told my daughter one of the lessons to learn in 2020 is NEVER HERO WORSHIP.

    Ever.

    1. That sounds overly simplistic and dumb, but it is actually one of the wisest things you can learn. The sooner the better.

  19. Were there riots when Justine Diamond was shot for rapping on a hood of a police car? Did Fullerton go down in flames after the Kelly Thomas incident? Just checking.

    Yeah, most of these looters aren’t ordinary citizens galvanized into action by a national tragedy. You can tell from the photos that most of them are urban youth, the same kind of garden variety leftwing anarchists that you find in antifa protests. They live in a world of systemic oppression and found a conduit in the Floyd case.

    A lot of people predicted this very scenario weeks ago. What good would come out of police dragging people away from streets for not being masked? But the insufferable buffoons who whine that “America is too libertarian to get through this pandemic” had their heads shoved into their own asses to see what was coming. Michigan should count their lucky stars that their sheriff refused to be the governor’s lapdog.

  20. “the same kind of garden variety leftwing anarchists that you find in antifa protests.”

    Don’t give them credit for being anarchists, that’s too consistent for them. They love big government when it’s sending stimulus checks or prosecuting cake “crimes”.

    1. Bingo. They are almost all complete fascists or communists. They don’t care about the principle of government not putting their boots on necks. They only care about which necks the boots are on. Clearly they have no respect for the idea of individual rights or property, which is why they feel no remorse for destroying the lives of people who had nothing to do with the state’s murder of Lloyd. That guy is in now where he belongs – in a cell waiting a trial for murder.

      They were collectively victimized so they’re entitled to collectively punish. All the while the media is making excuses for them. In all likelihood, most of the people that they are currently victimizing would be in complete agreement with them. I want to sympathize with a guy like Lloyd who clearly didn’t deserve on the spot execution even if it comes out that he actually did break a law, but if this is going to become an argument of back the cops or the mob, I’m just at a loss.

      1. Back the mob. The Reign of Terror only lasted about a year before the mob burned out, the Soviet Union lasted several generations. The spontaneous mob falls victim to its own lack of planning, you can bet the police have a plan.

        1. Yeah but when the mob eventually falls the cops come back with more ower than ever.

    2. Did you mean “fake crimes” or are you talking about various bakery-related misdemeanors like refusing to bake a wedding cake?

  21. Too many are allowing both of the statist factions, who want even more coercive state power and action as long as they wield the truncheons, to distract them with racism. The problem is statism, and accepting a misdiagnoses of racism can only make it bigger and worse.

    Take a look at this database of police victims and you will see those, often unarmed and not infrequently doing nothing illegal, of every race and age that were killed by police:

    “The Counted”
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database

  22. Coroner says strangulation was not a factor, and that the combination of underlying health condition and drugs led to his death.

    That doesn’t let the cops off the hook, especially if Floyd stopped resisting at some point, (he may not have resisted at all) but MN police manual apparently allows officers to put a knee on a suspect’s neck.

    1. It was just Chauvin’s bad luck that he was was using his knee to pin Floyd’s neck to the ground when that heart disease killed him. That’s some super-bad timing for the poor officer.

  23. The rejection o such antics by Police Depts. and Police Unions is appropriate and very long overdue.

  24. Are we seeing a tipping point where police begin to grasp why the public is so outraged? No. They will swear it’s an aberration.

  25. Cops want us to rat on each other, but when they’re accused of something they clam up and request a lawyer. They know what a terrible idea it is to talk to the police.

  26. NO!

    also school shooting are not over. schools were closed.

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  28. I read these stories of police incidents and cannot believe that police or deputies here would act like that. Seriously.

    But quite frankly since Cruikshank 1873 gutted the 1870 Civil Rights Act opening the way for States and private parties to violate the Bill of Rights, and especially the bloody year of 1877, this country has marched away from the promise of DoI, AoC, and USC (government of the people, by the people, for the people, protected by volunteers raised from the people) to a Hobbesian/Weberian absolute state (government of the people, by the state, for the state, protected by jackbooted thugs loyal to the state).

  29. The reaction by some police unions is just a preemptive maneuver to deflect attention from what could be an overdue backlash against them. Like all public sector unions, their priority is maintaining their own existence. ‘Protecting the public’ isn’t the business of police unions. Unless there is something else to take attention from them, and there probably will be, there will almost certainly be some attempts to curb their abuses. but don’t hold your breath.

  30. For me, the fact that the police have finally spoken out against an officer is an important crack in the “blue line” and the only bright spot visible in this whole tragedy.

  31. Many cops will always be thugs because they have guns and badges and think they are the law. That is nasty, brutish power with which no one can be trusted. Power will always corrupt.

  32. “The fact that he was a suspect in custody is immaterial.” Actually, asshole, the fact that he was a suspect in custody and was deprived of due process and the presumption of innocence makes it worse. It’s the opposite of immaterial. It’s the whole fucking point.

    But yes, let’s take comfort in the fact that “some police chief associations and individual chiefs have been denouncing Chauvin’s treatment of Floyd.” Big fucking deal. Get back to me when they lead the charge for ending qualified immunity. If they were serious about firing someone and making it stick they’d advocate for at least that much accountability. As it is, there’s almost zero downside when they fire a cop: They look tough on cop crime while knowing that the cop will almost invariably get his job back, with back pay. Win-win for #TeamBlue. You really think that fired cops get their jobs back “against a police chief or sheriff’s will”? You have only the chief’s or sheriff’s word for that, and All. Cops. Lie.

  33. Hi, Scott. George Floyd died of coronary artery disease, and of illegal drugs. There was no evidence of asphyxiation at autopsy.

    1. The autopsy ruled out “traumatic asphyxiation”. All that means is it didn’t leave a mark — no broken hyoid bone or ligatures.

      Poor cardiovascular health *might* have contributed. The drugs is idle speculation.
      Even if so, he would not have died if not for the knee on the neck for nearly ten minutes. The eggshell skull rule means you don’t get out of manslaughter charges because someone healthier would have survived what you did.

  34. Were the LA riots the tipping point?

    no

    The problem is that suburbanites do not understand that cop snapping at you, that cop entitlement attitude is the same problem, but we are not poor and black so we are unlikely to get shot
    A few years back our local cops arrested someone who was recording police in public, in violation of the Supreme Court ruling

    you just don’t read about it because no one was shot

    top to bottom rich to poor policing needs reworking

    1. that’s the 1992 LA riots for you too young to remember

  35. Virtually ALL this “police brutality” is police on the take (directly or indirectly) from drug dealers they’re protecting making sure said dealers keep their payments up.
    They JUST have to kill or severely injure one from time to time, or the payments start falling off.
    No other explanation really makes sense.
    Racism …
    They’ll never be exposed. The only solution is to legalize drugs. All of them.

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