Trump's Campaign Manager Charged with Battery Against Reporter

There goes another news cycle.

CNN

Welcome to another Donald Trump news cycle, Americans! Donald Trump's campaign manager has been charged today with simple battery over a confrontation in Jupiter, Florida, earlier in the month with then-Breitbart reporter Michelle Fields.

Corey Lewandowski turned himself into police this morning. Police released security video showing Lewandowski forcefully grabbing and yanking Fields by the arm while she's asking Trump a question. After the incident Lewandowski tweeted that Fields was delusional, he hadn't touched her, and had never even met her.

Clearly that part is not true, but it stands to be seen whether what he did actually constitutes a crime. The Trump campaign has put out a statement that Lewandowski is "absolutely innocent" and will plead not guilty.

In the non-political universe this crime would probably be handled with a plea bargain resulting in a fine and/or community service. But in the political universe, it resulted in Fields and others resigning from Breitbart News because of the way the media outlet, which had been in Trump's corner, failed to defend her. And it's presented as a reflection of Trump's character as a leader and the types of choices he'll make as president.

In any event, though I imagine the incident will probably have very little influence on the trajectory of the actual election, this is going to probably dominate the news cycle for the rest of the day. Sorry, Supreme Court deadlock on forced public employee union dues!

Oh, and apparently Lewandowski's attorney is a former prosecutor who resigned over allegations that he bit a stripper at a night club in Florida. Chew on that, folks.

UPDATE: Trump tweets.

Twitter

Comments

[sarcasmic]

Aw, come on! Who hasn't bit a stripper?

[Hamster of Doom]

People who understand foreplay, and occasionally even have sex.

[Bra Ket]

Not saying I understand this "foreplay" concept, but how do these things come into play when dealing with strippers exactly?

[Libertarian]

If she's at work, biting a stripper would be a great way to get a bouncer to rearrange your face.

[Bra Ket]

Wow, the more I learn about foreplay the more confusing it is to me.

[Chumby]

Didn't the ShamWow guy get his tongue bit by a stripper then he punched her?

Guess which state where it occurred.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

New Hampshire, Libertarian Mecca?

[Chumby]

I think it was in Florida.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

*goes back to working on new material*

[Rhywun]

"You're gonna like my nuts!"

[Chumby]

Yes, he was also the shill for the SlapChop.

[CharlesWT]

I could take some battery from Michelle Fields...

[Jayburd]

Eveready "D's"

[MikeP]

Corey Lewandowski turned himself into police this morning.

Just like in Terminator 2!

[Free Market Socialist $park?]

Probably more like Let's Be Cops.

[Just say Nikki]

After the incident Lewandowski tweeted that Fields was delusional, he hadn't touched her, and had never even met her.

Furthermore, this is ancient history!

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

It's a fake scandal. Did I spell 'scandal' right?

[Episiarch]

Incorrect. It's a conspiracy, and Michelle Fields engineered this whole thing at the direction of her bosses at...where does she work again? It doesn't matter. CONSPIRACY!!!

[Irish ?s Lauren Southern]

Fields sounds like a Jew name. I bet she's a Mossad fifth columnist.

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

It was her move to jump from Breitbart to Fox, even though she had worked at Fox before Breitbart.

[Zeb]

I thought the story was that she staged it all in order to get a job with FOX News.

[Catatafish & Woodchips]

The degree to which Trumpeters are dissembling on this is really kind of chilling. First they were all screaming "fake! liar! attention seeker!" about Fields and totally supporting the Trump and Lewandowski claims right after it happened.
Now it's "how is this news? it's not like she was raped."

Seriously, they sound like actually cultists.

[Just say Nikki]

This.

[Episiarch]

Um...they *are* actually cultists. Cults are always cults of personality.

[ant1sthenes]

What about cargo cults, smart guy?

[Chipper Morning Wood]

You mean like waiting in line for hours for the new iPhone?

[Zeb]

That's something else.

Cargo cults are interesting, but they aren't what most people seem to think they are.

[Zeb]

Cargo cults usually have a charismatic founder or leader.

[Irish ?s Lauren Southern]

Yep. This is pretty much a nothing issue that would have gone away if Trump and Lewandowski didn't lie and try to slander Fields. But Trump knows his dipshit supporters thrive on controversy because they have nothing going on in their own lives so they thrive on Trumpendrama.

So he lied for no reason and worked them into a lather of impotent rage.

[Swiss Servator]

Trumpenschauspiel

[lulztopian]

The glee with which the anti-Trumpers are reveling in this is equally appalling.

[Guestus III]

The glee with which the anti-Trumpers are reveling in this is equally appalling.

Why? It's not like they (at least the people commenting on this thread) are blindly worshiping someone else instead.

[Swiss Servator]

Speak for yourself!

*lights candle at shrine to STEVE SMITH*

[Hamster of Doom]

I toy with the idea of becoming Welch's lovestruck stalker.

[bacon-magic]

How about the Jacket's ass packet?

[Catatafish & Woodchips]

(quickly hides hair doll of Eva Green)

[bacon-magic]

STEVE SMITH LOOKS DOWN AT SWISS, NARROWS GAZE IN PRE-RAPE EXCITEMENT.

[Pope Jimbo]

Will you never learn?

There is a reason that all the candles in the STEVE SMITH shrine are located way down on the bottom shelf. I'd expect a smart guy like you to catch on about the second or third time you bent way over to light the candle and then .... Well you know what happened.

[Citizen X]

Never underestimate the brain's ability to repress traumatic memories, and there are few memories more traumatic than those involved in a STEVE SMITH encounter.

[Irish ?s Lauren Southern]

How is going after Trump and Lewandowski for being scumbags 'equally' as appalling as blatantly lying in an attempt to slander a reporter for no reason?

[Loki]

Because he's a butthurt trumptard.

[Loki]

Seriously, they sound like actually cultists.

They sound like Obama supporters. Like them, their guy could sacrifice a baby in a full on black mass streamed live on the internet, and they'd probably claim "ZOMG THAT'S TOTALLY CGI!11!1!!1!!!!! I CAN'T EVEN!11!!!!!1!" Their chosen idol can literally do no wrong.

[Guestus III]

Thanks, Trump!

[Catatafish & Woodchips]

I was just discussing this with my brother and he basically said, "well, after 8 years of Obama worship, can you blame the guy for trying the same thing that's worked so well for him?"

Wait a minute, Loki...ARE YOU MY BROTHER?!

[WTF]

Hell, just look at how easily Hillary's supporters can overlook and deny her obvious malfeasance.

[Chumby]

#itsherturn

[Libertarian]

Oh, and apparently Lewandowski's attorney is a former prosecutor who resigned over allegations that he bit a stripper at a night club in Florida.

It's Florida all the way down!

[Juvenile Bluster]

Is there any way that all of these court cases could result in both Breitbart and Gawker ceasing to exist? Pretty please?

[ant1sthenes]

Or better yet, merged into one company, with their zany odd-couple antics turned into a reality TV show?

[Libertarian]

Hey, man, you've got the wrong Lewandowski, man.

[Episiarch]

"Trump's rug really ties the room together."

[Loki]

God dammit, now I need to explain to IT why I need a new keyboard to replace the one I just spewed soda all over...

[Citizen X]

Obviously, you are not a golfer.

[Mindyourbusiness]

I knew the thing had a life of its own!

[Francisco d'Anconia]

All the Dude ever wanted was his rug back.

[Swiss Servator]

That's like your opinion, man.

[Chumby]

Don't tase me, bro.

[Old Mexican Mighty Aggressor]

The Trump campaign has put out a statement that Lewandowski is "absolutely innocent" and will plead not guilty.

"Absolutely innocent", says the Trump campaign. Hopefully for him and his case, Lewandowski's lawyer is not going to be that sanguine.

[some guy]

Oh, and apparently Lewandowski's attorney is a former prosecutor who resigned over allegations that he bit a stripper...

Crusty! I didn't know you had such inside knowledge of this case. C'mon, spill the beans. What's really going on here?

[R C Dean]

That's the best angle I've seen, although its shitty herky-jerky video.

Technically, was he a little more rough than maybe he strictly needed to be? I guess. In the context of that zoo around Trump? Nah. Hell, she basically lost a couple of steps, didn't even really stumble, and kept right on.

If charging him wasn't feeding a political narrative, it wouldn't happen.

Yet another "Everyone involved is an asshole, too bad they can't all lose" moment.

[Hamster of Doom]

Wait, what? What the hell did she do to qualify as an asshole?

[Cloudbuster]

Press charges over this nothing interaction? Claim she was nearly thrown to the ground?

[Hamster of Doom]

So, you're substituting assumption and emotion for actually having a clue what happened.

Well, you can't be a woman, because this place is libertarian.

[Cloudbuster]

I've seen multiple videos from different angles. I haven't seen an incident this meticulously deconstructed since the Zapruder film. Nothing worth mentioning happened. Despite what our hysterical culture teaches people, not every time someone touches you without your permission is it worthy of loud public complaint or an assault charge.

I've been touched and grabbed like that in my life probably dozens of times. Never one formal apology requested or assault charge filed.

[Just say Nikki]

Despite what our hysterical culture teaches people, not every time someone touches you without your permission is it worthy of loud public complaint or an assault charge.

Translation: "I don't share a morality that requires an apology after violently putting hands on another person."

Yeah, we get that.

[Episiarch]

Incorrect translation, Nicole.

Proper translation: "I don't have a morality other than 'support my dear leader and my TEAM' at all costs, morality be damned."

[Voros McCracken]

The basic problem is that if that sort of thing resulted in an assault charge every time it happened, our already swamped criminal justice system would be flooded.

We need a hell of a lot less people charged with "crimes" and this is the exact opposite of that. Fire him, make him a public pariah, use it against Trump to keep him from getting nominated, I'm gleefully on board. But charge him with assault? No way.

The overcharging of people by DA offices across the country is a way bigger problem than anyone currently running for President ever will be.

[Hamster of Doom]

"No one is allowed to make choices I do not approve of."

How convenient.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Ever get called a liar for pointing it out? Ever get fired for doing so?

[commodious spittoon]

Had the guy expressed any contrition or even tried to explain himself, I might share your ambivalence. "In the context of the zoo around Trump" would have been a perfectly acceptable mea culpa coming from him. Instead he did the typical Trump thing: lie spectacularly and beat up on the victim. Trump and his camp followers and worshippers are crybullies in the extreme. Fuck 'em. Whether or not the charges stick, he doesn't deserve an ounce of compassion.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Crybullies?

Is that your own? If so, bravo.

[commodious spittoon]

It's been kicking around for awhile. And it really does capture the essence of social justice dweebs and now, apparently, alt-right cretins.

[Just say Nikki]

The two groups have a lot in common.

[Episiarch]

They don't just have a lot in common. They are flip sides of the same coin. Take away their TEAM affiliation and their various buzzwords and they're identical.

[Swiss Servator]

That is a common term used to describe the SJW crowd on campus...

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Forgive me. I live in the sticks and all my search engines are to difficult to use.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

*TOO

[Citizen X]

all my search engines are to difficult to use

You still using Lycos, brah?

[Loki]

not every time someone touches you without your permission is it worthy of loud public complaint or an assault charge.

Actually, someone deliberately touching you without your permission is legally defined as assault in most states. Whether it should be or whether or not someone should file charges every time someone does so is a different discussion, but what this asshole did is assault in most jurisdictions.

I've been touched and grabbed like that in my life probably dozens of times. Never one formal apology requested or assault charge filed.

Ooh, such a badass. What, do you want a fuckin' cookie?

[commodious spittoon]

I actually do like the argument that there's room for empathy and proportionality, even if we're hewing to the letter of the law. If the guy hadn't come out swinging and instead made the reasonable argument that he was caught up in the chaos and made a mistake, there's really no reason to press charges. But since he had to act the ass in keeping with the Trump motif, fuck him. Drain a bit of money from the Trump coffers.

[Chumby]

They want faggot cookies

[BiMonSciFiCon]

There's audio from *immediately* after the incident in which she exclaims that he nearly threw her to the ground. Unless you think her immediate reaction was "sweet, time to frame Corey Lewandowski," she subjectively believed she almost was thrown to the ground.

[R C Dean]

She's delusional if she believes she was almost thrown to the ground. She barely backed up and lost a step.

[Zeb]

Maybe she just has a good sense of balance.

[Zeb]

From what I've heard, she didn't want to make any big deal of it until they revealed themselves to be lying, insulting assholes.

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

She makes Trump look bad.

[Just say Nikki]

Yeah, the woman who just asked for an apology is exactly as much of an asshole as Lewandowski and the campaign are for smearing her and directly pushing her to file a police report.

[Cloudbuster]

You don't apologize to people who are clearly riding the victim train. That's just like putting blood in the water.

[Just say Nikki]

It looks to me like not apologizing was putting blood in the water. Regardless, I disagree with the premise.

[Hamster of Doom]

I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG.

*thrashes*

GET THAT BITCH.

*contacts media*

SHE'S SUCH A DRAMA QUEEN.

[Episiarch]

So if you're actually assaulted, if you ask for an apology, you're riding the victim train? Interesting logic you have. So when is someone *not* riding the victim train? When they're on your TEAM?

[Just say Nikki]

You don't get it, Epi, Apologizing makes you weak. Like a woman. But you can clearly see that Lewandowski isn't a woman, and Fields is. If anyone deserved an apology it was obviously Corey.

[Episiarch]

So why aren't you apologizing to me right now, woman? Just think of something to apologize for, the actual subject doesn't really matter. Maybe being the worst or something.

[Marty Comanche]

Like Trump, this is going to be funny right up until the point that it isn't. We have delusional Trumpkins looking to Daddy Trump and thinking, "gee, that's probably what a leader looks like. He dodges responsibility wherever possible. I should do that so that I can be a winner like Daddy."

[Bush League]

Fuck off with this circle jerk. If you're part of an "oppressed" class, the details of any situation don't matter, because one side is automatically the victim. Apologizing does nothing for them, because they'll always want more. There was nothing to apologize for here, an anxious reporter closed in on Trump and an equally anxious campaign manager pulled her back a little harder than maybe he should have, but not hard enough to merit all this bullshit hyperbolic language.

I understand she worked at Breitbart and she wasn't an SJW, but she's using their tactics now claiming she was "assaulted." So fuck off with your bullshit that people that don't want him to apologize are only saying that because they think women are weak. We've seen this story countless times, if you give an inch they'll take a mile. Come to my college campus sometime.

[Ship of Theseus]

Dipshit doesn't understand the definition of "assault." Get lost.

[Cloudbuster]

If that qualifies as assault, I have been assaulted countless times in my life without ever asking for an apology.

[Catatafish & Woodchips]

In every state in this country if you put hands on someone without their permission it is a battery. Fields simply asked for an apology for what constitutes - without question - a criminal act. Trump and Lewandowski lied and then besmirched her name. But you're right. SHE'S THE ONE WHO IS CLEARLY UNREASONABLE.

[Episiarch]

Tell you what. Why don't you meet up with Warty and we'll have him start physically "contacting" you harder and harder and then you can tell us when we've reached simple battery, and then assault. What do you say? You're obviously a tuff gai, that should work, right?

[Cloudbuster]

Happy to.

[Warty]

Lolz

[Episiarch]

Happy to.

So when's the meetup, tuff gai? HoD just volunteered.

[bacon-magic]

STEVE SMITH WANTS TURN ON CLOUDDUSTER'S JOY HOLE. STEVE SMITH LIKES DUMB ONES.

[Hamster of Doom]

Why don't you meet up with Warty and we'll have him start physically "contacting" you harder and harder and then you can tell us when we've reached simple battery, and then assault. What do you say?

Better idea: me.

We'll Youtube this shit. It will be glorious. Bets on how long it takes him to decide to hit back.

[Warty]

Why let him hit you back? One of the great joys of life is holding the mount on a newbie who doesn't know what to do and is spazzing way too hard to try to get out. I'm not saying. I'm just saying.

[commodious spittoon]

holding the mount on a newbie who doesn't know what to do and is spazzing way too hard

These euphemisms...

[Warty]

Euphemisms? I thought it was pretty straightforward that I'm talking about gay sex here. What are you talking about?

[HeteroPatriarch]

Battery. Not assault. Why do we get so many Trump cultists here now?

[Warty]

Yokels emit a subsonic call, dude. Humans can't hear it, but when they do, they instinctively rush over and begin bleating about Trump and establishments and how college is for fags.

[commodious spittoon]

Your shit's all retarded.

[Swiss Servator]

Brawndo?

[Citizen X]

YOU SAID IT, BROTHER

[peels out in F-150 with decal of Calvin peeing on the Koran]

[Libertarian]

That's like putting blood in, whatever.

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

You don't apologize to people who are clearly riding the victim train.

'The media's so unfair to me!'

[Hugh Akston]

If Melissa Click committed assault, then Lewandowski committed genocide.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

No, Melissa Click committed assault, Lewandowski committed battery.

[Hugh Akston]

I'm just pointing out that RC Dean Esq. wanted to throw the book at a woman who spoke some words and pointed, but thinks that a man grabbing and yanking a woman is NBD.

[Hamster of Doom]

Just watch them freak the fuck out because some German woman had her ass touched.

[commodious spittoon]

Go on...

[R C Dean]

I'm just pointing out that RC Dean Esq. wanted to throw the book at a woman who spoke some words and pointed, but thinks that a man grabbing and yanking a woman is NBD.

Actually, Click laid hands on the reporter. And called for others to assault him as well,

To me, a lot turns on context. Click really went out of her way to go after the reporter. That's different than making contact with someone in a scrum. Context matters, and Click was in a different context than Lewandowski.

Technically, tens or hundreds of millions of "batteries" occur every day in this country. Most of them happen in crowds. I would bet that if you flyspecked the video for the entire event, you'd see hundreds or thousands of "batteries".

Was Lewandowski an asshole? You bet. Was he a little rougher than he needed to be? Probably.

Does he deserve to spend a year in jail? No way in hell, but that's what he's looking at.

[RBS]

Nods smugly in agreement with Paul.

/1L RBS

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

After the incident Lewandowski tweeted that Fields was delusional, he hadn't touched her, and had never even met her.

"Oh, THAT Michelle Fields!"

[Cloudbuster]

I've been in big, jostling crowds at concerts and if you asked me hours later if I remembered grabbing some woman's arm as I made my way through the crowd in the wake of the speaker, I doubt I could accurately tell you.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Wait, what? You can't remember whether you grabbed some woman's arm? We're not talking about bumping into someone, we're talking about grabbing an arm. I don't grab people's arms when I'm jostling through big crowds.

[Guestus III]

Bullshit. I've been in a ton of big, jostling crowds and I can remember perfectly that I have never grabbed a woman by the arm and yanked her out of the way. Why? Because I am not a huge asshole.

[Just say Nikki]

You only think it's because you're not a huge asshole. The real reason is because you're busily virtue-signalling to your PC friends.

[HeteroPatriarch]

I feel like you left out the word "cuck" somewhere.

[Guestus III]

It true! Common courtesy and old fashioned chivalry are SO FUCKING PC. I mean fuck, why can't everyone just fucking say what they actually want to say anymore?

[Just say Nikki]

What, Guestus, are you telling me you haven't been waiting your whole adult life for it to be socially acceptable to mock people's physical disabilities? You sound like a pansy.

[Guestus III]

I just want America to Be Grate Again. And I shouldn't have to work with cripples or type in Mexican at the ATM. If that makes me a yokel or a racist, then I don't even know what this country is anymore.

[Chumby]

Ahh, the halcyon days of having negros shine your shoes at the train station...

[MichaelL]

My doctor mocks me every time I have to go in to beg for something to relieve the neuropathic pain, from my spinal cord injury! It does not matter that I am disabled with intractable painful paresthesias, and para-paresis! That being said, no one deserves to be mocked. I felt Mr Trump was of the bullying sort, right from the beginning. It appears to me that the RNC will have to be changing their rules again this time, as well! They changed them for Dr Paul. Now, Mr Trump is going to end up being the only one with (4 or 8?) primary victories that they were required to have before they were allowed to have their name put into nomination. It seems to me it might be rebellion to what the RNC did at that last convention. Now, who is getting even?! Sadly, instead of a libertarian leaning statesman, we get a pseudo-conservative locker room bully. Maybe this is the way we get rid of the problems with a, do-nothing, Congress that can't act like the rest of us, and spend no more than we earn! When the Paul campaign was prominent, he was getting independent, and crossover, vote that was looking like he could beat Hillary Clinton. Paul's support went south!?

[HeteroPatriarch]

I've been in big, jostling crowds at concerts and if you asked me hours later if I remembered grabbing some woman's arm as I made my way through the crowd in the wake of the speaker, I doubt I could accurately tell you.

So it's gone from "she's a lying attention whore" to "you can't blame him for not remembering this one woman out of thousands he's grabbed and thrown out of the way." You Trump idiots aren't even good at this.

[Just say Nikki]

They call that "not being a loser."

[Warty]

Are they good at anything? Well, besides gaslighting.

[Swiss Servator]

Gasbagging?

[Warty]

Ooh, excellent.

[Citizen X]

You leave my old roommate out of this.

[HeteroPatriarch]

Shitting on threads?

[Loki]

IIOW, you're a faux internet tough guy, but you make up for it by having no sense of boundaries. Got it: you're an asshole, and a douchebag, and I hope you get fuckin' Lou Gehrig's disease.

[Bill Dalasio]

Let me ask you a question, if you'd grabbed onto a woman's arm enough to leave a bruise, are you telling me you'd somehow fail to recall? Seriously? I'd venture the only sort of person that would describe would be a full-blown sociopath.

[R C Dean]

Interesting fact:

Under Florida law, Simple Battery (Misdemeanor Battery) is a first degree misdemeanor, with penalties of up to one year in jail or 12 months probation, and a $1,000 fine.

Does that look like something that he should spend a year in jail for?

[Just say Nikki]

No. But it looks like something he should have apologized for and then moved on from.

[Cloudbuster]

Nope. An apology would have been usable in court as an indicator of guilt and if you think she would have stopped at an apology, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Someone who "just wants an apology" doesn't smear the incident across the national news media as quickly as she can.

[Just say Nikki]

People should apologize for violently putting their hands on other people, period. He should have apologized because it was the right thing to do. What I think about her subsequent actions is irrelevant to that question.

[Episiarch]

CONSPIRACY!!!

I want to believe! Should I slam my head in a car door a few hundred times?

[Citizen X]

Yes, but that's not why.

[Episiarch]

Like I need a reason.

(opens car door)

[Libertarian]

"up to" being the operative phrase.

[John]

Up to one year. Not all assaults are equal. It is what it is. If he assaulted her and she is willing to press charges and say so under oath, then he deserves to be convicted.

[HeteroPatriarch]

Wow. The penalty is up to a year in jail, this particular incident doesn't look like something that deserves a year in jail, therefore it should be ignored and they were totally justified in casting her as an attention-seeking whore and trying to ruin her life and career.

[Warty]

THAT FUCKING WHORE

[R C Dean]

The penalty is up to a year in jail, this particular incident doesn't look like something that deserves a year in jail, therefore it should be ignored

I didn't say that. I'm just pointing out that the potential punishment is grossly disproportionate to the event itself. Which should make you think about whether a criminal charge should actually be filed, no?

In this highly politicized environment, do you think the odds of Lewandowski getting a year are more, or less, than they should be?

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

Sounds like a Florida problem, not a Fields problem.

(and yeah, that's the maximum punishment, not the minimum or required)

[grrizzly]

Does that look like something that he should spend a year in jail for?

This country doesn't have the highest incarceration rate in the world because our prison sentences are too lenient.

[Loki]

So, when you join the Trumptard Club, do they hit you in the head with a tack hammer until you lose at least 50 IQ points? I only ask because I don't remember you being this retarded before.

[R C Dean]

You talkin' to me?

Not a Trumptard.

But Trump does have a way of making other people show their asses, and I do enjoy pointing that out.

To be clear:

(1) Lewandowski is an asshole who was probably a little too rough with Fields.

(2) Technically, this is battery, but technically, millions of batteries go uncharged every day. In context, that's what should have been done here.

(3) Fields is making an awfully big deal of something that any reporter doing what she does should be able to manage. She, like Lewandowski and the cops, is showing her ass here as well.

As I said above, this is one of those "too bad everyone can't lose" deals.

[Crusty Juggler]

(3) Fields is making an awfully big deal of something that any reporter doing what she does should be able to manage

That is where you are wrong. At the outset all she wanted was an apology. Then her bosses and the Trump campaign decided to call her a liar, etc, and the Twitters took care of the rest. I cannot see how she did anything improper, or tried to make this a big deal.

[R C Dean]

My recollection could be off, but I thought she went public with an accusation almost immediately. And one that, in retrospect looking at that video, was a little overdone. That's not how you get an apology.

If that's what she did, then, yeah, she's showing her ass.

[Crusty Juggler]

No. I think you are wrong. I think the "going public" stuff happened after her former employer backed the Trump campaign's word over her word.

We went from "this never happened" or "the slut is lying" to arguing about whether or not it is an assault.

[R C Dean]

Mebbe so. If they tried back-channels first, that's the right way to do it.

[Chumby]

Could this have been a "stand your ground" situation?

[Cloudbuster]

Any judge who gave a damn about justice would see the entire incident for the politically-motivated smear job it is and throw it out of court.

[Hamster of Doom]

Not you, then.

[Cloudbuster]

What? You seriously think he did anything criminal, there?

We live in a nation of pansies.

[Guestus III]

Yes, he did. Criminal law is codified and in this case, and it defines battery pretty clearly. Criminal law is not based on whatever you personally think makes people pansies or not. I don't think he deserves jail time, but that's irrelevant to whether he actually broker the law.

[Hamster of Doom]

I'm sorry, you're siding with the dude that violently grabbed a woman, lied about it, and everyone else is a pansy?

There, there. My bad. I did not realize you were so fragile. Better keep a safe distance. My massive physical presence can be intimidating.

[Episiarch]

That's a huge bitch!

[Banjos]

Oh stop with the histrionics. If that's "violently" grabbing someone then the entire population of the world belongs in jail. I'm watching my 3 and 2 year old "violently" assault and batter each other right now over a hair brush. Earlier they were doing it over a juice cup.

We get it, Trump is icky, you hate him so everything he does is graded 100 times worse than what others say and do. I'm not a Trump supporter because he's buffoonish and disagree with some of his policies but can't for the fucking life of me understand how so many otherwise intelligent people act insane when it comes to him. 90% of the shit reported about him is either an outright lie or has been drastically distorted. I've never in my life witnessed anyone be demonized to this extend. It's become a witch hunt mentality.

[grrizzly]

This. When it comes to Trump, I hate everyone.

[Hamster of Doom]

Seriously?

Tell me more about me. Since you know me so, so intimately.

[This Machine]

... but can't for the fucking life of me understand how so many otherwise intelligent people act insane when it comes to him.

Beats the hell outta me, too. There are plenty of reasons, major and minor, to dislike the guy and think he'd make a shitty president who doesn't deserve anyone's vote. But when every single one of them is cranked up to 11 and smart people I know and respect go out of their way to make unnecessarily bad arguments against him, then the whole fucking thing just turns into a clownshow.

On the bright side, only like what, 7 more months of this?

[lulztopian]

Team Machine and Banjos. You people have lost your fucking minds.

[cavalier973]

"Team Machine and Banjos" would make a good band name.

[Banjos]

Ooh, I like it.

[Ron]

Sarah Palin was probably treated worse and still is. it doesn't matter the media treats all republican as hitler and if Trump goes out they will just move on to who ever is left standing

[Citizen X]

You know who else always talked about a nebulous They and got called "hitler" in the media?

[DesigNate]

Sarah Palin?

[Chumby]

Hitler?

[JW]

Show us on the doll where you want Trump to touch you.

[BYODB]

So, essentially, everyone realizes that it wasn't necessarily a crime (although it could be one) but the reporter felt that it was necessary to press charges in order to prove that she's not actually lying about the incident entirely.

It's pretty much a non-story, but it does serve to illustrate that Breitbart is just as shitty as everyone thought and that Trump & Crew are just as shitty as everyone thought.

On the bright side, all the people who were defending Trump & Crew on the other news storys because they didn't like the footage angle of the incident now have police video to critique and complain about it's angles and how hard, exactly, Lew had to jerk her around before it was battery.

Should be fun!

*overwhelming sound of crickets*

[John]

It either was a crime or it wasn't. If it was, then the guy should be convicted for it. If it wasn't, then she should have never claimed it was. She has pressed charges and that is her right. And the fact that she is willing to do that and willing to state her accusation under oath makes it worth considering.

Don't tell me she was "forced to do this". If you don't like going to court and pressing charges against people, don't accuse them of committing crimes. Once you accuse someone of criminal activity, you have an obligation to press charges. If you don't want to press charges, that is fine but you ought not to then bring up the issue in public. If you want it dropped, drop it. Don't accuse someone of a crime and then refuse to press charges and give that person their day in court.

[Just say Nikki]

If you don't like going to court and pressing charges against people, don't accuse them of committing crimes.

That's nonsense. Just because the state decides to make a law about something doesn't mean my only morally acceptable recourse for an interpersonal incident is to turn to the state. She was well within her rights to ask for an apology and not press charges.

[Catatafish & Woodchips]

^This

[John]

Okay catafish,

Imagine someone accuses you of beating them up. You deny it but they say you did. If that person won't go to the police and won't put their accusation under oath, why should I believe them?

Nikki of course would believe them. Do you think that is fair of her? I don't.

[Just say Nikki]

I never said anything about who anyone should believe. Stop being so mendacious.

[John]

Of course you did. It is an accusation against Trump. Like there is any accusation against Trump you won't believe.

[Marty Comanche]

If Lewandowski had apologized, this would have been over. Fields wouldn't have pressed charges. But he didn't just refuse to apologize. He dragged her name through the mud and then Fields was fired by the Trump lackeys over at Breitbart. Gee, I wonder why she escalated to pressing charges after being smeared and having her livelihood threatened.

[John]

YEs Marty. If Lewandowski had admitted he was wrong, there would be no reason not to believe Fields. For whatever reason, he didn't do that. And that is his right. And it is Fields right to then go and press charges.

If she hadn't done that, it is her word against his and if she isn't willing to press charges, I don't see why I should believe either one of them or care about the incident. That is all I am saying.

[Episiarch]

Of course you did. It is an accusation against Trump.

And there we have it, clear as day. This is about Lewandowski, but to Trumpets like John, it's an assault on Trump and therefore them. And that's why they are going fucking insane about it.

It's not like we didn't know this, but sometimes having it spelled out so clearly is nice.

[lulztopian]

The Trumpets aren't the ones salivating and acting like gleeful schoolgirls over this. You are.

[Episiarch]

Uh huh, whatever you say. Because finding people dropping their integrity and supposed principles like a hot potato for their savior Trump to be disturbing is "salivating and acting like gleeful schoolgirls".

Enjoy your cult.

[lulztopian]

That's exactly what you're doing, and now you're attacking because it cuts too close to the truth.

You are practically the King of Cynicism about politicians, and yet Trump makes you especially emotional. It must suck to be that easily manipulated.

[Episiarch]

Your projection is impressive, considering you're the Trumpet and all I'm doing is noticing it. Wouldn't that be perfectly in line with being the King of Cynicism about politicians?

Apparently, believing a politician will change things for you really makes people stupendously retarded. But hey, keep telling yourself it's me that's lost his mind. Not you...you know, the person who is *actually culting out*.

I love the smell of self-deception in the morning.

[lulztopian]

You're not just "noticing"; you're giddy about it. Because you're just like every other doofus who's buying into the narrative that Trump is uniquely awful. Someone who presumes himself so cynical should just be saying, "oh, politicians, big surprise", but you're like the cat and the canary.

[Episiarch]

Seems to me that you're realizing you're the doofus who's gone all in for a politician (giddy, even!), even though you know that's retarded, and desperately trying to convince yourself that it's me that's retarded so that you don't have to face yourself.

Projection is a bitch, isn't it.

[DesigNate]

I realize I'm late to this shit show, but how is automatically accusing anyone who disagrees with you (when it comes to anything Trump) a Trumpeter or Trumpalo or whatever any different than Buttplug automatically accusing everyone here of being a Bush supporter because we don't like Obama? Especially when they haven't actually said anything in support of Trump.

We are fucking better than this.

[Catatafish & Woodchips]

John, there's a difference between what you choose to believe about a dispute and your numerous posts here saying that Fields should "shut up."

[John]

Catafish,

I have never said she should shut up. I said she should press charges or shut up. She has pressed charges and I am glad she did. She should have pressed charges.

[Marty Comanche]

I have never said she should shut up. I said she should press charges or shut up.

This is thorazine blow darts and butterfly nets territory.

[Bill Dalasio]

No, that's not quite the most apt analogy. Let's say you shove someone to the ground. They bring it up. They try to deal with it civilly by getting you to apologize. No need to make a federal case out of it. You respond by calling them a liar and accuse them of being an attention-seeker. Who's the one taking it to what level?

[John]

It is not nonsense at all. If you don't go to court, you deprive the person of a chance to prove their innocence in court. How is that fair?

Moreover, if someone commits a crime, you should want them prosecuted. And if it is not important enough to you to want it prosecuted, why is it important enough to slander them with it?

If you are not willing to go to court and put your accusation under oath, I really don't want to hear it or care about it. Why should I care? You don't care enough to do anything about it. If it is not important to you, why should it be important to anyone else?

[HeteroPatriarch]

It's only slander if it's not true, John.

[John]

How do I know it is true if the person isn't willing to put their accusation under oath? I am not saying you have to press charges. i am saying if you don't, then shut up about it. Don't refuse to put your accusation under oath and then come crying to me about it and expect me to believe you or consider the incident in anyway important.

[Just say Nikki]

Moreover, if someone commits a crime, you should want them prosecuted. And if it is not important enough to you to want it prosecuted, why is it important enough to slander them with it?

Fuck your state justice. Not everyone wants it, and it's far from the only kind of justice out there.

[John]

Fine. If you don't want it, don't take it. That is your business not mine. But if you don't want it, then shut the fuck up about the incident and don't expect me to care about it or make any claims about what did or did not happen unless I was there and saw it myself.

[Just say Nikki]

But if you don't want it, then shut the fuck up about the incident and don't expect me to care about it or make any claims about what did or did not happen unless I was there and saw it myself.

How does the saying go again? "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state"?

[John]

There is another saying Nikki, it is called talk is cheap. Why should I believe you if you are not willing to say something under oath? If the other person admits it, sure. If I saw it happen, sure. But if the other person denies it, how can I tell who is telling the truth? I can't. So if you are not willing to put it under oath, shut the fuck up about it because I have no way of knowing if it is true.

[Just say Nikki]

Why should I believe you if you are not willing to say something under oath?

In what way is this question relevant to the question of whether Michelle Fields had a right to ask for an apology without pressing charts?

[John]

In what way is this question relevant to the question of whether Michelle Fields had a right to ask for an apology without pressing charts?

Sure it is. Her right to an apology is contingent upon her telling the truth. If she is lying, then the guy doesn't owe her an apology. So when he denied it, then I have no idea who to believe and can make no judgement about her right to an apology. Now that she is willing to put it under oath and pressed charges, I can say she likely was owed on. Good for her for pressing charges. I am fine with her pressing charges. She should have. Just don't whine to me about how backing up your claims of criminality under oath is some kind of a burden.

[Just say Nikki]

Just don't whine to me about how backing up your claims of criminality under oath is some kind of a burden.

Who's doing that? Because I'm telling you to shove your illegitimate state up your ass.

[Bill Dalasio]

So, in other words, if you think someone wronged you, your first response should be to go to the government to have them send men with guns after them. Otherwise, you should just shut up.

Christ, John, you might want to start posting around Salon or the Daily Kos. You'll find some pretty kindred spirits there.

[Catatafish & Woodchips]

John, how many things in this country are now statutory crimes? The major rationale behind forcing someone to press charges is that a crime isn't just committed against the physical victim but against the state itself. If the value I place on some dickbag grabbing my arm is a beer and a sorry then I shouldn't be compelled to participate so the state can reinforce that notion of violence being perpetrated against it. Fighting this supposed slander can be done the way it usually is: publicly. If it amounts to actual slander, Lewandowski can file a civil suit. I'd also remind you that Fields didn't press charges until Lewandowski started lying about the whole thing.

[John]

No one is saying you have to participate. I am saying if you don't want to, then shut the fuck up about it. Walk away and let it drop. If you don't want to do that and you want your pound of flesh against the dickbag, then press charges and put your claim under oath, otherwise, there is no reason for me to care or know whether to believe you. Why should I believe someone who refuses to put their charge under oath?

Take Trump out of it for a second. Calm the fuck down and think about it. You have signaled your virtuous objection to Trump enough on this subject. Everyone gets how cool and wonderful you are.

So take Trump out of it and think about what I am saying. I am just saying that you should not publicly accuse people of crimes unless you are willing to press charges and put your accusation under oath if they deny it. If you don't want to press charges, fine. Or if they want to admit it and you are happy with that, fine. But if they won't admit it, either press charges or forget it. That is all I am saying.

And yes I understand you hate Trump. I don't think you are one of THOSE PEOPLE.

[Catatafish & Woodchips]

John, I think you are neglecting a pretty significant dynamic in this case. The campaign manager for the Republican frontrunner for President of the United States physically accosted a reporter just trying to do her job. Fields' JOB is to report on things surrounding the Trump campaign. Lewandowski's act is newsworthy. She reported it and then, for her part, essentially said, "I don't give a shit about pressing charges but an apology would be swell." Then Lewandowski and Trump fed the news cycle by lying about her and supporting those lies, respectively. At that point Fields did exactly what you are saying she should do: file charges and have the relative truths submitted to the acid test of testimony under oath. If Fields was lying, Lewandowski has every opportunity (and ostensibly a room full of supporting witnesses) to file a civil suit against her.

My disgust with Trump notwithstanding, I'm just not understanding why you think she should just shut the fuck up and sit in the corner.

[John]

Yes Catafish,

I am neglecting the all important TRUMP factor. I am thinking about this rationally.

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

It is not nonsense at all. If you don't go to court, you deprive the person of a chance to prove their innocence in court.

Do you believe OJ was innocent?

[John]

12 jurors did. And what does that have to do with anything? Do you think it would have been better for the Goldamn family to accuse OJ of murder but never actually want the DA to go to court?

Do you even understand what anyone here is talking about? If you do, try a little harder to make more salient points.

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

Didn't answer the question...

I'm asking whether you think truth is determined by the court process. Why should you think a crime is committed? Because you find the evidence compelling, regardless of whether it goes through the official court process. If that process acquits the person, the evidence is no less compelling. And vice versa. The person's innocence does not become truth or accepted because it was 'proven' in court.

[John]

'm asking whether you think truth is determined by the court process.

Since it is a human process, sometimes yes and sometimes no. It is however the best system we have. Do I always agree with the result? No. That, however, is not the point. The point is that going through that process and putting your version of events under oath and subject to perjury represents a seriousness on your part that warrants my taking your accusation seriously. If you are not willing to do that, then I see no reason to take your accusation seriously.

You have missed my point.

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

And you're a lawyer, aren't you? Why the hell are you acting like pressing charges and going to court is a costless endeavor?

[John]

DA's don't charge crime victims to press charges you half wit.

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

OK, you seem to be fully inside your head at this point. Good day to you, and you, and you as well.

[BYODB]

-BYODB "...the reporter felt that it was necessary..."

-John "Don't tell me she was "forced to do this."

Oh, John. You literally can't help yourself but to attack strawmen and tilt and windmills.

[John]

She wasn't forced to do anything. Yeah, if you want to accuse people of assault, you likely are going to have to go to the police to prove your case. If she doesn't like that, she can always not make the accusation. So she wasn't forced to do anything.

Basically you are bitching that she was "forced" to prove her accusation. My God, why couldn't people have just believed her.

Do you feel the same way about rape? Do you think women who claim men raped them but then refuse to put their account under oath or press charges should be believed? And the ones who do are forced to do so by horrible cynics like me who don't just take criminal accusations at face value?

[BYODB]

Look, my point was that the only thing Trump is good at is staying in the spotlight and this story serves that purpose regardless of the truth. Worst case scenario he gets a million dollars of coverage for $1000 slap on the wrist to his campaign manager.

To me this ultimately shows that the idiots who vote for a guy they constantly need to defend over stupid shit like this are surreptitiously voting for Hillary Clinton considering there is no universe where Trump beats [insert anyone's name here] in the General. None what-so-ever. Look at his disapproval ratings and tell me otherwise.

How many stories like this one does it take to show his character for you? One? Two? A hundred? A thousand? Trick question: it's a moving goal post because Trump defenders/voters don't give two red cents about electability or any particular principle (Sound like any other candidates in the field to you?). This is protest and revolt, plain and simple, and Trump knows this and exploits it. His ego is going to ensure Clinton's election and when that happens I'm curious to see what happens; but I'm also worried that this could be the singularity. I guess we'll find out since there is no avoiding it at this point; we're already in the gravity well.

[Ron]

the left gets police to file charges against republicans all the time and almost always they are dropped after the election. they did that to Sarah Palin they did that to a senator from Texas who finally quit over it. Its common practice by the left to make false claims against their opponent.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

That clip was much better than the last one I saw. Yep. He grabbed her.

[Libertarian]

Glenn Reynolds is saying, "...a bought drink and an apology could have fixed this, but they doubled down and called her a liar instead."

I think he just described what a Trump administration would look like.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

I agree.

[Ken Shultz]

Or what a Clinton Administration would look like.

How many women did Clinton call a liar? Seven?!

Only Monica's mother was smart enough to tell her not to wash that dress.

Is it better when they say, "What difference does it make"?

Is it better when they do evil shit like accept money from foreign countries out in the open?

[HeteroPatriarch]

What's your point, Ken?

[Guestus III]

Yep. I doubt there is more than zero persons posting here who support the Hill-Dog.

[Swiss Servator]

They all lie and act like scum?

[Marty Comanche]

Maybe the point is, "holy shit. Buckle up for 8 years of this regardless of who wins."

[Ken Shultz]

Yeah, I'm no Trump supporter, that's for sure. His stance on free trade--to the left of Paul Krugman--is enough by itself to ensure I won't vote for him.

But anybody who thinks Hillary Clinton is in any way superior to Trump in regards to how they deal with scandal is outta their freaking gourds.

. . . and there really are a lot of people who want to sell her like that.

From whitewater to FBI files, from email to accepting donations from foreign countries while she was the Secretary of State, she's so sure of her unaccoutability, it's frightening. If Trump thinks he can get away with saying anything, Hillary thinks she can get away with doing anything.

[Hamster of Doom]

Winner winner chicken dinner.

I was never going to vote for these bastards. As the silly season stretches on, we're merely plumbing the depths of the abyss.

[Ken Shultz]

Mu point is that politicians denouncing the people who attack them as liars isn't entirely unprecedented, and if Donald Trump is the alternative to Hillary Clinton, then I'm not sure we should expect Clinton to be better than Trump on that count.

My point is that if this is in any way indicative of how Trump will act when he's in the White House, then what does Hillary's past indicate we should expect from her?

Frankly, I don't find candidates attacking the credibility of their accusers very surprising. By comparison, Hillary doing horrible things out in the open where everyone can see them and just assuming she's inherently unaccountable is much, much worse.

If I had to choose between these two candidates on that basis alone, I'd vote for Trump without hesitation.

That's my point.

[HeteroPatriarch]

Fortunately, you don't have to choose between these two.

[JW]

Glenn Reynolds is saying, "...a bought drink and an apology could have fixed this, but they doubled down and called her a liar instead."

Pretty much this.

It was a small incident that went nuclear because of Trumpism. Fuck 'em.

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

That's my guess. And don't forget:

Trump said in an interview that he knew he couldn't win the suit but brought it anyway to make a point. "I spent a couple of bucks on legal fees, and they spent a whole lot more. I did it to make his life miserable, which I'm happy about."

[Swiss Servator]

Rule 11 never gets used enough...

[R C Dean]

a bought drink and an apology could have fixed this,

Probably. But Lewandowski's an asshole, so no.

I'm not just super-impressed with Fields, either, so maybe that wouldn't have worked.

[Mongo]

Here's another tweet from Field's bf:

I bumped my finger against one of those pink-frosting flowers on a white cupcake - very difficult now to type my outrage!!! #owie

[Just say Nikki]

Posted 10 minutes ago by Trump:

Wow, Corey Lewandowski, my campaign manager and a very decent man, was just charged with assaulting a reporter. Look at tapes-nothing there!

And posted 8 minutes ago by Trump:

Why aren't people looking at this reporters earliest statement as to what happened, that is before she found out the episode was on tape?

I feel like we need a new name for what Trump does. It's not the "big lie." It's more like the "infinite nonsense."

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

If it's any consolation, he ain't gonna be president of anything.

[commodious spittoon]

Trump is campaigning hard for president. President Hillary.

[Episiarch]

It's more like "my dumbass supporters will believe anything I say, so why work too hard at lying when I can just tell them what to think?"

[Just say Nikki]

Actually, it's more like, "I need to get control of the news cycle again."

[JW]

I feel like we need a new name for what Trump does.

Bellicoseing?

In any case, he needs an itchy skin rash named after him.

[Citizen X]

Trumpeting.

With that, i'm out. I got a bad case of the trumps that i want my doctor to take a look at.

[Libertarian]

"Sweeping it under the rug"

[Swiss Servator]

I kind of like "bellicosing"....Beligerlying?

[commodious spittoon]

Love it.

[John]

Maybe someone has thrown a spell on me or something. I am not trying to be argumentative. I am very seriously asking what is objectionable about any of that? I honestly don't see it.

Take the first statement

Wow, Corey Lewandowski, my campaign manager and a very decent man, was just charged with assaulting a reporter. Look at tapes-nothing there!

He likes his campaign manager, thinks he is innocent and thinks the tapes prove it. The tape doesn't show much from what I can see. What is the problem here?

Why aren't people looking at this reporters earliest statement as to what happened, that is before she found out the episode was on tape?

Again, he is just defending his campaign manager. If it is true that her statements have not been consistent about what happened, that she claimed it was much worse before she knew there was a tape, that is a pretty big indictment of her credibility. If it is not true, then Trump is wrong here but since when is being wrong outrageous?

I keep seeing people put up stuff like this as being self evident proof of how horrible Trump is. Yet, it always looks pretty reasonable. What am I mssing?

[Just say Nikki]

If it is true that her statements have not been consistent about what happened, that she claimed it was much worse before she knew there was a tape, that is a pretty big indictment of her credibility. If it is not true, then Trump is wrong here but since when is being wrong outrageous?

It isn't true. He's not being "wrong." He's lying. That's what we call it when people make intentionally false statements. And it's part of his ongoing mass-gaslighting operation, part of which is devoted to assassinating Fields' character. By making knowingly false statements about her and the claims she has made.

And the tapes do not show "nothing there"; they clearly show he grabbed her, which he had previously denied happening.

[John]

So every mistake is a lie and every claim that is counter to your opinion is outrageous.

Really NikkI? I get it you hate Trump. I am not going to try and dissuade you of that opinion. I will however tell you that going insane over every perceived wrong on Trump's part doesn't help your case in that regard. It just makes you look really unreasonable.

[Just say Nikki]

No, not every mistake is a lie. But there's absolutely no reason to believe any of this is a "mistake" when Trump and his campaign have been involved in a month-long attempt to assassinate Fields' character by making false statements.

[Catatafish & Woodchips]

"It just makes you look really unreasonable."

John...I mean...fucking pot, fucking kettle. Trump has categorically backed up Lewandowski's claims that he never so much as touched Fields. The video clearly states that Lewandowski is lying. Trump is therefore blatantly supporting a liar now and supported statements made by his operatives impugning Field's character for "lying" about the incident.

In what universe does Trump ignoring actual videotape evidence putting the lie to Lewandowski's claims and supporting Fields' amount to anything less than Trump lying himself?

[lulztopian]

John, you're missing Reason's pathological Trump Derangement Syndrome and how much the Commentariat has apparently glommed onto it. Seriously, what the fuck has gotten into people around here? Can we please get some perspective?

[HeteroPatriarch]

Go on. I want to hear how it's the non-Trump supporters who are being unreasonable here.

[commodious spittoon]

Like it or not, libertarians have some interest in the GOP. It's the only lever we have on policy: Democrats want too many poison pills to make them worthwhile allies. As defective and pusillanimous as they are, Republicans are an important avenue. So when a primary disposes of broadly libertarian candidates and champions avowed statists, it's an important statement about the nature of the party and the prudence of the coalition. It's not derangement, it's watching our one hope for bringing about libertarian solutions crash and burn. At the very least, the GOP can put the brakes on the slide into socialism. If progressives had had unabated access to power over the past century, the United States would have made the USSR look like a gleaming bastion of liberty. But Trump has no interest in conservatism. Trump would slam the accelerator to the ground. Which is moot, since Trump is handing the election over to Clinton, and that's another disaster altogether.

There's some legitimate grievance here.

[Hugh Akston]

The best description I have seen of Trump's style is that it's not so much that he lies as he doesn't care what the truth is.

[Swiss Servator]

Probably right - first thing that springs to mind, comes flying out of his mouth.

[HeteroPatriarch]

Whatever it is, it's working on at least 3 new trolls in this thread alone.

[Swiss Servator]

New? I think we have seen at least two of them in other Trumpenthreads....Tulpae, perhaps?

[Warty]

It's more like the "infinite nonsense."

Something something calculus of lies? Something something Zeno's Paradox. Something along those lines. I'll think about it.

[R C Dean]

Thanks, Warty. I am filing "Calculus of Lies" away as the title for a novel I'm planning to write. Excellent.

[Ken Shultz]

"It resulted in Fields and others resigning from Breitbart News because of the way the media outlet, which had been in Trump's corner, failed to defend her. "

The way I heard it was that management was on the Trump bandwagon, but staff wasn't. The people who resigned were already disgruntled--or so I heard.

[John]

Since 90% of Breitbart's readership is on the Trump bandwagon, I would hope the editors would be as well. At least if Breitbart is in business to make money.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

As Popehat pointed out on Twitter, the video clearly shows the incident meets the legal definition of assault in the state of Florida. However a DA will seldom prosecute such a minor offense. So basically Lewandowski and Trump were such assholes that they provoked the DA into pressing charges.

All they had to do was apologize and this would have never happened. Lot of that going around lately it seems after essentially the same thing happened with Gawker.

[JW]

"What? Syria? Never heard of the country. We never bombed it, let alone destroyed it.."

[John]

If it really is an assault, then too bad for Lewandowski.

[lulztopian]

only in Reason-land is blaming the victim permissible as long as it's Trump related.

[R C Dean]

As Popehat pointed out on Twitter, the video clearly shows the incident meets the legal definition of assault in the state of Florida. However a DA will seldom prosecute such a minor offense.

My point all along. Which many here think is facially absurd, apparently.

So basically Lewandowski and Trump were such assholes that they provoked the DA into pressing charges.

I think there's a little more to it than that. The high media profile, the virulent anti-Trump hatred, both went into this. Its basically politically motivated prosecution, which I would have hoped libertarians would be a little skeptical of.

[Irish ?s Lauren Southern]

Anatomy of a Trump lie:

1. "I never touched her and don't know who she is!"
2. "See! This video shows someone else probably touched her and it wasn't me!"
3. "Okay. So this other video shows it was me. But look, if I slow the video down it looks like it's totally nothing! This isn't dishonest though because a slowed down video absolutely shows how hard I grabbed her and isn't meant to make it look like less of a big deal."
4. "Alright, so sped up it's obvious I grabbed her rougher than I admitted. But she's a dirty cunt drama queen anyway!"
5. "I don't understand why she's pressing charges after the month I spent assassinating her character and trying to ruin her career. WTF whore?"

[Just say Nikki]

Good effort; needs more character-assassination justification.

[Irish ?s Lauren Southern]

I also wanted to work in the sound effects of Trump's chinless supporters sucking his micro-dick, but I didn't know exactly how that sound should be transcribed.

[Citizen X]

SSSHHPPLSPLPLPLPLPLPLPLPLPLSPLSPLSJSHJHPLJKK

[Episiarch]

That's uncanny. Wait a second...

[Drake]

Reason needs to credential some interns and send them to Hillary events to ask unwelcome questions with the video running. Be fun to see if they get tossed around too.

[Libertarian]

Hillary simply roped off reporters. Say what you will, she's a professional.

[BiMonSciFiCon]

Interesting to see some posters here come out against the NAP. The NAP- a foundation of libertarianism, unless the aggression is by a Trump supporter/employee.

[JW]

The NAP- a foundation of libertarianism

There's your problem.

These are not the libertarians that you're looking for.

[BiMonSciFiCon]

Sadly, I know.

[Wulf]

I'm betting a significant minority of the posters here actively anti NAP when it comes their children.

[BiMonSciFiCon]

They proactively beat people up who aren't threatening their children? NAP does not mean "no self defense ever."

[Wulf]

Actually I was referring to the general acceptance of parents violating the NAP against their children.

[Just say Nikki]

Only one shit show per thread, if possible.

[Wulf]

You're not the Boss of ME!!!! I learned if from you, (un)MOM!!!

[mashed potatoes]

For this to violate the NAP would you first have to verify that the "victim" had permission to be where she was. BC you can forcibly move someone for reasons that don't violate the NAP

[BiMonSciFiCon]

A reporter didn't have permission to be there, asking questions of Trump (like every other reporter)?

[HeteroPatriarch]

It wasn't private property, she wasn't warned before she was forcibly removed (although it is refreshing to see the admission that she was forcibly moved), Trump was talking to her until she asked a question he didn't like, and you're an idiot.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

I also like that he was stupid enough to tweet easily controvertible statements about the incident. Have fun being crossexamined on that one, genius.

[Loki]

...it stands to be seen whether what he did actually constitutes a crime.

I'm no lawyer, but I'm pretty sure grabbing someone and forcibly moving them is a crime. By definition. If the video really shows that, then I'd say it's pretty open and shut.

But not surprising, really. Scumbags tend to surround themselves with other scumbags.

[Poppa Kilo Sierra]

I went to the video link, and I don't see where everyone is getting their certainty from.

What I can see could be interpreted multiple ways, I think - which at least matches up with the fact that people ARE interpreting it multiple ways.

[lulztopian]

It's Trump, and despite the long protestations of the Commentariat claiming all politicians are the same, they've decided to take leave of their senses and go full potato on the subject.

[Poppa Kilo Sierra]

Never go full potato!

That one frame per second video forces you to fill in the missing moments - and that filling in must be affected by your experience and your preconceptions.

Maybe in future they'll routinely have enough good cameras at political rallies to give you the three-dee view the networks get for football games.

[HeteroPatriarch]

Wow, another two-person echo chamber. It's video that shows exactly what Fields says happened and directly contradicts what Trump and Lewandowski said happened. What you're doing isn't interpretation, it's denial.

[bassjoe]

Touching somebody without permission is enough for a criminal battery charge; you don't need physical injuries. The video at least shows that.

[lulztopian]

We're aware. Ponder what you said, though: TOUCHING. Touching.

[buybuydandavis]

So if Fields touched Trump twice, that's two battery charges?

[BiMonSciFiCon]

Lewandowski admitted he grabbed her, then claimed it was mistaken identity, then claimed nothing happened. Trump said she made it up. Now he's denying that the new video provided by Trump National security shows him grabbing her, even though that's what it clearly shows.

All of Trump's supporters on Twitter (and apparently here) are still unfailingly supporting him. Despite the fact he's a lying sack of shit who's not even conservative.

There's a Jesse Walker post in here somewhere.

[Just say Nikki]

Gaslighting is a hell of a drug.

[mashed potatoes]

Honest question, is there a different standard in law for bodyguards, security, secret service, etc? I have a hard time believe the secret service agents don't do this all the time (like the one who choke slammed that dude) and nobody bats an eye?

[Poppa Kilo Sierra]

I have wondered about this myself - seems I have heard about the secret service doing things routinely that would get me in trouble.

Are they fully covered just by the FYTW principle, or is there some black-letter law that gives them a special pass?

[John]

They do. And they also get sued all of the time. They almost never get charged with assault. Even with the video, this case is going to be very hard to win.

[Libertarian]

Didn't Fields originally say that she was thrown to the ground?

[Poppa Kilo Sierra]

No, she said something along the lines of having trouble keeping her balance - never claimed to hit the floor, that I know of (although that has been mis-attributed to her by many...)

[Libertarian]

Thanks -- I was too lazy to google.

[Crusty Juggler]

No. The Twitter-fight resulted in the "thrown to the ground" stuff. She has been consistent, and is one of the few sane people in this mess of frothy retardation.

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

No.

[ant1sthenes]

There goes another news cycle.

True, now journalists have no choice but to write about Trump, despite the reticence they have typically demonstrated on that subject.

[bassjoe]

UPDATE: Trump tweets.

What? How the hell can Trump look at those tapes and say there's nothing there? The new one from the overhead security camera CLEARLY shows him grabbing the reporter.

[Poppa Kilo Sierra]

I'm not as sure of that from that one frame per second video - is the linked stuff the best there is, or is there something with greater resolution and/or frame rate?

[R C Dean]

There's some crappy cell-phone and TV camera footage, but I haven't seen anything that really captures a good angle at the critical moment.

If the DA is the least bit serious about prosecuting everyone who was touched without their permission at that event, he's going to have to file thousands of charges. That's the point here: IN CONTEXT, there's a lot of technical batteries committed all the time. IN CONTEXT, you can expect to get pushed around in a scrum like that. Lewandowski was rougher than he needed to be, but criminal charges? Seriously? Tell me again that these charges would totally have been filed if it wasn't Trump.

[Citizen X]

Who is this "Trump" fellow? I don't think he's ready for prime time.

[BiMonSciFiCon]

"These videos are intrinsically paternalistic." -Trump.

[Crusty Juggler]

260 comments and zero on the commendable alt text? You people disgust me.

[Citizen X]

Sorry, got distracted by the Trumpenproles tulping all over the thread. That is indeed some decent alt text.

[Crusty Juggler]

Michelle Fields was a secret Fox News Establisment spy sent by Roger Ailes and the suits in DC to wage espionage against the Trump campaign. She was unsuccessful because of the winning aura of deals that surround the Trump campaign, and had to result to making up this totally unbelievable story about a guy grabbing her arm. It's so simple!

Try to disagree with that, you white knight cuckletarian losers.

[John]

That is really good Crusty. Almost too good. So good it makes me think you are really an GOP establishment spy putting out misinformation and just trying to gain our trust with this nugget of truth.

You are a sly one Juggler.

[Tak Kak]

Can someone point out where (and at what time) I should be looking at this video? It feels like that damn Waldo taunting me again.

[Crusty Juggler]

Does it matter? Why would she make this up?

[John]

I don't think she would make it up. These things are often messy. It is unlikely she just made it up, but that doesn't mean her memory of it is perfect or that the guy didn't do exactly what she said. People often have different perceptions of the same event.

[Tak Kak]

"Does it matter? Why would she make this up?"

I mean, no, the court doesn't care what Tak Kak saw. I'd just like to see what all the fuss is about.

[Crusty Juggler]

Okay.

[Old Mexican Mighty Aggressor]

Re: Tak Tak,

They just showed another video in Fox News just a few minutes ago that shows a bird's eye view and it is clear the guy yanked Michelle out of the side of Trump. It looks pretty violent.

[Tak Kak]

Thanks.

Could you link that?

[Just say Nikki]

That's where the words "security video" linked in the post go.

[Crusty Juggler]

Videos can be faked, especially with the help of The Establishment.

[Tak Kak]

It took me to the same Palm Beach Post video that I can't decipher.

I'll try again later.

[Tak Kak]

Spotted it! Brunette gal lower center. That smudge on the camera was distracting.

[R C Dean]

It looks pretty violent.

Its subjective, but I don't get that. The choppy video doesn't help, but I'm also looking at what she did after, which is pretty much just keep on keeping on. Not what I would expect of someone who was grabbed so hard it left bruises and almost yanked off her feet. She could just be that tough, I guess.

[Tak Kak]

From the articles I've read here, "violent" really has no meaning.

[annitaylor11258]

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[Just say Nikki]

Important update for Trumpkins: you have a new story.

UPDATE: Member of Trump's Secret Service detail confirms Fields touched Trump twice and was warned to stop, before Lewandowski intervened

[John]

Maybe he is guilty. Again, that means she was right to press charges. Too bad for him but life is hard when you are stupid.

[Crusty Juggler]

She just couldn't keep her hands off Dealmaker Alpha.

[Notorious UGCC]

And his aide was simply rushing to his assistance.

"Don't worry, sir, I'll have you from being touched by that hot reporter!"

[Notorious UGCC]

*save* you

[Notorious UGCC]

If she touched *me* repeatedly, I wouldn't get *my* security detail involved!

[Crusty Juggler]

Ew.

[Notorious UGCC]

Uh, oh, if *you're* grossed out, I must have said something really nasty.

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

Damn, they have pretty good memory of what happened a month ago, while Lewandowski couldn't remember it days later.

[josh]

in lewandowski's defense, he was lying.

[R C Dean]

Member of Trump's Secret Service detail confirms Fields touched Trump twice

Sounds like she committed two batteries her own self.

WHEN WILL THIS ORGY OF VIOLENCE END?

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[Ron]

So moving someone out of the way is now a crime. I watched the video and if he did grab her it was the upper arm not the lower arm where the bruise is.

[Crusty Juggler]

Exactly.

[Domestic Dissident]

Here's the definition of Simple (or Misdemeanor) Assault in the State of Florida;

784.011?Assault.?
(1)?An "assault" is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.
(2)?Whoever commits an assault shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
History.?s. 5, Feb. 10, 1832; RS 2400; GS 3226; RGS 5059; CGL 7161; s. 1, ch. 70-88; s. 729, ch 71-136; s. 17, ch. 74-383; s. 7, ch. 75-298; s. 171, ch. 91-224.
Note.?Former s. 784.02.

I can't for the life of me imagine even one sane person convicting him of this based upon that definition and what's contained in that shitty surveillance video, much less an entire jury.

This is basically turning into a little version of George Zimmerman all over again, minus the racial bullshit.

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

That's probably why they didn't charge him with assault.

[John]

Then what did they charge him with?

[R C Dean]

Battery.

1)(a)?The offense of battery occurs when a person:
1.?Actually and intentionally touches or strikes another person against the will of the other; or
2.?Intentionally causes bodily harm to another person.
(b)?Except as provided in subsection (2), a person who commits battery commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

[John]

He grabbed her by the arm and pulled her aside. I know technically battery includes any non consensual touching but juries generally are not that technical. They want at least some kind of criminal intent, which I don't see here.

The other problem is that the woman lied about it. She initially said he threw her to the ground. Well, he clearly didn't do that. That is going to make her a terrible witness. And she will have to be a witness or the state won't be able to prove the touching was without consent.

I watch the film and I am frankly flabbergasted how people are upset about this.

[R C Dean]

She initially said he threw her to the ground.

Actually, she said she almost lost her balance.

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

Nice. You can't determine the basic fact of this case - that he is being charged with battery, as mentioned in the headline of this post - but you do know that Fields is a liar who claimed she was thrown to the ground.

You're clearly an authority on this, John. I hope you'll enlighten us further as to the correct position to take here.

[John]

MLG,

There is no way you can watch that video and not conclude her initial account of "being shaken" and "almost thrown to the ground" is not histrionic and deceitful. That is not going to go over well with a jury.

And I know the difference between assault and battery.

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

Florida updated their definition of simple battery last week to make this a crime.

[SIV]

+1 Master Settlement Agreement

[John]

In the end, isn't this whole thing about some guy pushing a reporter and then not sufficiently genuflecting himself before her and the rest of the mob known as the press?

What did he do here besides push her? It is not good but judging from the reaction on this thread, you would think he choked her out or went full Ray Rice on her or something.

[Tak Kak]

I think it's over him and Trump not apologizing more than anything.

[Crusty Juggler]

First it was it did happen. Then they said it did not happen, and that they did not say it happened. Then her bosses did not believe her. Then everyone said if it happened, go to the cops. Then they said no video showed him pulling her. Then they said the video was inconclusive. Now it is whether or not it constitutes an assault.

[Tak Kak]

Depends on what your definition of "it" is!

[Crusty Juggler]

It was hyper-sensationalized from the beginning, mostly because it helped inflame a retard Twitter war. That being said, if the Trump people had acted like rational people and had said "hey, we got caught up in the heat of the moment, I was not sure who you were" then no one would give a shit. Now the cops are involved, so way to go Trumps!

[josh]

the defense will try to prove that she bruises easily and/or this wouldn't have happened if she had simply been more attractive.

for the first part, they're going to ask the court for permission to manhandle ms. fields until a we're able to recreate a similar bruise.

as for the second part...man hope they allow cameras into the courtroom!

[josh]

in a separate tweet, it was noted that trump and his supporters also recently viewed the zapruder film and were confident that president kennedy is just fine.

[Rational Exuberance]

Are you kidding me? Grabbing someone by the arm and pulling them away because they are bothering your boss is now "battery"???

[ashleycox0025]

Before I saw the bank draft which had said $9426 , I didnt believe that...my... brother woz like actualy earning money part-time at there labtop. . there uncles cousin has done this 4 less than fifteen months and by now repaid the dept on there place and got a great new Mini Cooper . read the full info here ...

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