Tonight on The Independents: 'And Justice for Some,' Starring Freeway Ricky Ross, Sheriff Joe Arpaio, a Man Who Did Solitary for Five Years, and More!

Tonight's theme episode of The Independents (Fox Business Network, 9 p.m. ET, 6 p.m. PT, with re-airs three and five hours later), is all about the recent movement to (long-overdue) criminal justice reform, spearheaded by the likes of Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) and Sen. Cory Booker (D-N.J.).

The show starts with a wide-ranging debate between the co-hosts and two former prosecutors: Fox News Legal Analyst Lis Wiehl and The Five co-host Kimberly Guilfoyle. Next comes testimony from a man named Five Mualimm-ak, who spent five years in solitary confinement (hence the name), and now runs the Incarcerated Nation Campaign. After a discussion about botched executions and capital punishment, the show then interviews former South-Central L.A. cocaine kingpin Freeway Ricky Ross. Yes, that Freeway Ricky Ross.

"America's Toughest Sheriff" Joe Arpaio then talks about his controversial incarceration tactics and alleged racism; the ACLU's Vanita Gupta discusses racial disparities in drug arrests and sentencing, and the co-hosts finish the program off by talking about what steps led to this moment of possible reformation. It's a high-quality, entertaining, and informative news program, and I hope you invite your friends to sit around and watch. And if you are intrigued by these ideas, please consult Reason's special July 2011 issue on the subject, "Criminal Injustice."

Follow The Independents on Facebook at facebook.com/IndependentsFBN, follow on Twitter @ independentsFBN, and click on this page for more video of past segments.

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

Ugh. Not Wiehl.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Alt-text paraphrasing: MATT WELCH IS A GIANT WHO TOWERS ABOVE ALL.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

"America's Toughest Sheriff" Joe Arpaio t

Fox, please end whatever contract you have that keeps this disgusting evil fuck appearing on your network. One can have a debate about borders and immigration without resorting to giving face time to a fascist.

[Old Man With Candy]

Every time I see Kimberly Guilfoyle's name, all I can think of is Alfred Bester.

[GILMORE]

If you're going to have Sheriff Joe on, why can't you bring on some super pissed-off puerto rican woman to argue with him, rather than play softball/footsie with him? he's a slimebag, and i think it would be more fun to watch him slap-fight with a 250lb coked-up latina than duck questions and pontificate about how he's just a humble servant of The Law.

[Max Power]

Yeah, insult Joe until he never wants to come back. Just burn the hell out of the bridge with him. He is the worst and adds nothing.

[GILMORE]

Exactamundo

[Max Power]

WHERE IS BAAAALLLKKKOOOOO???????????

[GILMORE]

Agreed.

as a 'libertarian' show, i think it would be especially helpful to cover stories *every week* that the other media overlook or bury and replace with 'du jour' concerns.

i.e. = have weekly appearances by balko to talk about police misconduct stuff, have B.Suits and/or that other guy to provide updates on the VA scandal/veterans issues/military stuff. Maybe a drug war/legalization guy? Sullum?

etc. stuff like that.

beats the fuck out of the 'topical storm'/TMZ news-swag.

[Max Power]

Speaking of Balko, here's a real nut-punch about how fucked up the grand jury system is in Houston.

[Derpetologist]

Suggested show format:

Cold opening with a Remy song
Cop Watch with Balko
Debate with Guest
Fallacy Bingo with the Party Panel
Nanny of the Week
Ask STEVE SMITH
2 Minutes Hate

[Bobarian]

"Ask STEVE SMITH" would cause a singularity to form in the FCC offices and destroy the solar system

[Fist of Etiquette]

Show format:

Monologue
Dance number
Friday Funnies themed skit
Shouting possible facts at panel
Three minutes of dead air
Musical guest number
Ask musical guest to chime in on politics
Compare musical guest to Hitler
Topical analgesic
No whammy no whammy STOP!
Game of Thrones spoilers
Things the hosts are afraid of
John Criswell trashes How It's Made
Welch's Gripe Jam
AH! Lou Dobbs.

[Max Power]

I'd watch the hell outta that. Nothing better than musicians talking about politics!

[Notorious G.K.C.]

That sounds like the best variety show ever, outside of the Muppet Show, of course.

[Derpetologist]

No ferrets?

[Max Power]

The 3 minutes of dead air gives you time to make a cocktail.

[GILMORE]

Where's the "All About Ferrets!" segment supposed to go?

[Bobarian]

Right before the Deep Dish Foreskin debate.

[GILMORE]

"NYPD-nutpunch"

1-oz white rum
1-oz dark rum
1-oz curacao
3-oz apple juice
dash bitters
top with soda

stop, frisk, serve

[Max Power]

after mixing, does it turn the color of a bruise?
after you drink it do you wake up in jail/the hospital?

[GILMORE]

"NYPD-nutpunch" - Revised

1-oz white rum
1-oz dark rum
1-oz curacao
1-oz malibu (or coconut schnapps)
2-oz apple juice
Top with Club Soda
Dash of bitters

Kneel on throat, read rights, serve

(needed to add a club & nuts)

[Francisco d'Anconia]

One of those tests that actually works.

What Kind Of Conservative Are You?

You got: Whoa, you're a Libertarian!
Yeah, you knew what you were doing. You're not technically a "conservative" but let's be honest, who do you trust most with your civil liberties? Individual liberty, political freedom, and voluntary association for all, down with the state!

[Francisco d'Anconia]

INDEPENDENTS ASSEMBLE!

[Max Power]

Does Serious Man still do the song? Here's what I've been listening to.

[Max Power]

OOPS

[Max Power]

Which is lamer, watching The Independents or preseason football on a Friday night?

[GILMORE]

Yes

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Which is lamer, watching The Independents or preseason football on a Friday night?

[Max Power]

What if I was also drinking and talking to a dog (a real dog, not a Son of Sam dog)?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Prediction: Hoops

[GILMORE]

I am guessing that Matt is a good free throw shooter but has no jumper at all.

[Fist of Etiquette]

If Dick Durbin is for it then I'm against it. Whatever it is.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Federal prosecutors are particularly self-serving.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Christ I hate her.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Yeah, because people commit crimes expecting to be caught.

[Derpetologist]

Criminals read up on mandatory minimums?

[Bobarian]

Is it me or did Lis Wiehl put on some weight (maybe retaining some evil)?

TIWTANLW

[Max Power]

She's going for the Nancy Grace look

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Yeah, now she's a FAT statist cunt.

[Fist of Etiquette]

It doesn't help anyone? Prison industrial complex.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Possibly, maybe, not criminalizing everyfuckingthing might help, too.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

OMG, she's actually blaming people who refuse plea deals!

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Aaaaaaawwwwweeeeee. You gotta do your fucking job. Poor little bitch.

[Derpetologist]

End the War on Drugs. The End.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Why doesn't the blonde simply ___ herself with Nancy Pelosi's ____?

[Bobarian]

Wait, I got this one

Hang...forked tail?

Smother...left over skin?

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Eeeeeeeeewwwwwww!

/teenage girl

[Fist of Etiquette]

Get rid of plea bargaining. Bring the system to its knees.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I don't the prosecutors are understanding the point here.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"I'm not saying that's fair." Go and sodomize yourself with a pine cone.

[Derpetologist]

Anyone who refers to drugs as narcotics is a twit.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The discretion is now the abundance of charges prosecutors can apply to any given action. They pile on. The guidelines mean nothing.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

To the brunette: Are you admitting or denying that hair analysis was reliable in those cases the FBI is reviewing?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Ha. "I don't think we are vengeful. Vengeance is part of it."

[Max Power]

"no one wants to the throw the book the first time offender"
tell that to that poor lady from Philly that took her gun over the bridge into NJ.

[Derpetologist]

The only useful purpose of prison is to keep dangerous people away from everyone else. Rehabilitation does not work.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

It works for clever criminals who can work the system.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Oh, you meant works for the *public!*

[Notorious G.K.C.]

We're nice because we're hot brunettes and blondes, ha ha!

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Why is "using" a crime?

BECAUSE IT'S THE LAW!!!!1111tenplusone!!!!!

[Francisco d'Anconia]

But it costs less if they actually commit suicide,

[Fist of Etiquette]

On the plus side, all that money for solitary is a lot of multipliers!

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Hey, I wouldn't mind being in solitary without having to deal with my roommate, Big Earl the Rapist. Just give me my reading material and let me have my daily banter with the guards.

[GILMORE]

Still better than a manhattan studio

[Notorious G.K.C.]

And no rent!

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Wait, he's saying solitary isn't actually solitary? What a rip-off!

[Fist of Etiquette]

Maybe we should bring the righteous prosecutors back to hear this.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Well, Matt, that's because you are a pussy.

[Bobarian]

Some people are in solitary to protect them from the gen-pop (children for instance).

[GILMORE]

Uh, children?

Minors are in Juvie to begin with.

[Bobarian]

Children tried as adults.

[GILMORE]

The Independents Attire Review, 8 August 2014

Operation Pastorius-Edition

- Kennedy: Little Black T. We have previously expressed the desire to see Kennedy express her own version of "F.U. Television-Conventions" by going with the full-on Ramones T-shirt. If you're going to go *that* casual, why not then just cross the line into "Chillin like a Villian"? Kmele has already gone 'Jamaican Pimp Thug', and Matt has... well, he did his execrable 'Sheriff Woody'... but each have exorcised their alter egos on-screen. Why not Kennedy?

(Note: *Metallica, Skynrd, or AC-DC would be acceptable alternatives)

- Matt: Excellent. The New Navy Suit fits so well that it vanishes into the background and leaves us appreciating the whole (the old tie looks fresher). Its such a tiny subtle difference, but this same arrangement with the Black Suit of Doom? would leave us wondering why something feels 'wrong' (probably because its a 3 button, fits more loosely, and harmonizes less with shirts/tie). Winning.

- Kmele: Greyscale. We appreciate Kmele's periodic returns to a straight-up, more-normal 'jacket & tie'; one - he has such a variety of everything that he always puts together something fresh; and two - the plaid shirts, the bow-ties, the Baller getup, and the sweaters, etc. tend to 'casual down' the show when they repeat. We want a tie like this - its a great one.

Mauruuru

[Bobarian]

"his execrable 'Sheriff Woody'..."

Woody has better color selection than matt. It was Hoss Cartwright!

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Gosh, remind me why execution drugs are so hard to obtain?

[Bobarian]

Absolutely, this is the worst argument against the DP there is.

The only argument that works for me is "what if they're innocent?".

[Fist of Etiquette]

Yeah, it helps victims' families so much to put someone to death.

[Rev-Match]

Bullets are quick and cheap. But I take the Sarvis position on the death penalty.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Why automatically assume that doctors aren't willing to kill people? I can give some examples of *some* doctors doing this.

[Derpetologist]

Guns run out of bullets, but guillotines never run out of gravity.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Sure some innocent people get killed by the state, but victims' families feel sooooo much better.

[Fist of Etiquette]

JESUS CHRIST KENNEDY DO YOU UNDERSTAND AT ALL WHAT THE OTHER TWO PEOPLE THERE ARE SAYING?

[Derpetologist]

Maybe if it was easier to arm yourself, there would be fewer heinous crimes. Just a thought.

[Rev-Match]

You mean encouraging self defense could help people thwart criminals?? That's just crazy talk.

[Derpetologist]

"But but but if everyone had a gun, they'd all start shooting and MORE people would die the crossfire!"

/minor exaggeration of prog derp

[Rev-Match]

Actually, I don't think that is an exaggeration.

[Derpetologist]

Yeah, poor choice of words.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Expandable pocket hose FTW!

[Derpetologist]

"I will support the death penalty when the infallibility of human judgement has been demonstrated to me."

Marquis de Lafayette.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Uh, is the Contra stuff proven?

[GILMORE]

In general, or just him?

[Max Power]

He sounds like he was good with money, until he got caught.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Dirty drug warriors? Say it ain't so.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The war on drugs is a joke in your town.

[Max Power]

Ha, drug entrepreneur. Kmele is the best.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"They haven't been able to catch me" - what a denial!

[Fist of Etiquette]

Yeah, now that you're no longer on parole, try not answering a cop's questions and see what it gets you.

[Bobarian]

Most drug dealers are not great representatives for presenting the libertarian argument. Just sayin'

[GILMORE]

Au contraire

They're some of the best. They understand the arbitrary nature of authority and the beneficial nature of free markets.

[Bobarian]

I got that they understand that, but it's like having Gavin McInness argue your side of the argument.

How you make the argument is just as important as the argument itself.

[GILMORE]

well, i'm the wrong guy to talk to...

one, because I *like* gavin

and i think truth is truth no matter who says it. Drug dealers aren't necessarily 'evil' people... and hell, they're definitely higher in Moral Esteem than *lawyers*

[Bobarian]

" i think truth is truth"

This is why most of us are here on Reason, but you do have to be able to debate your point, and having Rick Ross be our spokesman makes a lot of people miss the point.

[GILMORE]

I grant you that. He's not much for tete-a-tete

[GILMORE]

Rick Ross intuits that the drug war is popular because it allows politicians to spend lots of other people's money.

The man isn't stupid.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Is he preparing a run for Congress?

[Rev-Match]

Obligatory WKUK: Clint Webb for Senate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ5cGYBV2TQ

[Bobarian]

Imma say bullshit! He'd sell the shit out of it.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

He really had to think before answering, didn't he?

[Max Power]

Ugh, that turkey-necked old slug. I don't know if I even want to watch him.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

That commercial about C.O.P.D. makes you sound like a D.O.R.K.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Incorporate or lose your hearing.

[Max Power]

His yellow shirt and red tie look like shit.

[Max Power]

Arpaio should he'd responsible for what he's done.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Joe has no recognition of being on < i The Independence before.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Intensities in his tent cities.

[Max Power]

He doesn't fucking know anything about the numbers.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

So far, Kennedy's asking good questions.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Let's ask about how much money Joe made off of taking away the meat.

[Max Power]

"ammesty"

[GILMORE]

While I despise sheriff joe...

...the .45 tie pin is the SHIT.

but fuck him, he drones on whenever he gets a question, ignores whatever the point is, and just makes his 10 seconds speeches.

Fucking small town despot. I've seen a half dozen guys like him. They're the scum of the earth.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Obviously it's the incarceration that's doing it.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I took away everything so obviously there's been no rape in my prison.

[Derpetologist]

And Kennedy crashes and burns.

[GILMORE]

yeah. the floor fell out with that.

[Max Power]

LOCK UP EVERYBODY -Sheriff Joe's moto

[Max Power]

I can think of plenty of things to call him beside racist.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Except for the last question, the questions to Arpaio were fairly intelligent. Kennedy was, comparatively speaking, on her best behavior.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Now, I am aware the Arpaio dodged the questions. But the let him put his dodginess on the record.

[Sevo]

"Kennedy was, comparatively speaking, on her best behavior."

Why waste good behavior on such an ass?

[GILMORE]

"Are you Racist?"

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

oh come the fuck on. I could have penned 20 more-insulting things to ask that had 100X more class than that. Boooo.

[Max Power]

Yeah, if you're gonna insult him (which I think they should), fucking INSULT him.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Holy shit. Asking him if he's a racist? You could framed that a little better. He's a guest on your show, despicable as he may be.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

That last question spoiled a perfect streak of questions.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Where all the white women at?

[Rev-Match]

Flirting/crying their way out of speeding tickets.

[Derpetologist]

Questions Kennedy could have asked:

1. Does anything in your jail qualify as cruel and unusual punishment?

2. Do you think people should go to jail for victim-less crimes?

3. Have you ever broken the law? Which ones?

4. What evidence do you have that your methods work?

[Fist of Etiquette]

5. WHY ARE YOU SUCH A RACIST YOU RACIST FUCKER?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

1) "Giving people the punishment they deserve? Come on!"

2) "Every crime has a victim! What about the families of drug users and the people who die of overdoses thanks to the dealers! The illegal immigrants stealing jobs!"

3) "Up yours, my record is impeccable, they just hate me for *enforcing* the law!"

4) "Let me give another speech about pink underwear!"

[Notorious G.K.C.]

That's not an Indian accent, not that I was expecting one, that would have been racist.

[GILMORE]

me sits-with-beer, me offended. Hope Great Bear in Sky eats your liver.

[Fist of Etiquette]

HOW MANY ASIANS? HOW MANY ESKIMOS? HOW MANY ABORIGINES?

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Hey ACLU, please get your shit together on gun laws, the application of which disproportionately harm minorities and debar them of a basic civil liberty.

[GILMORE]

"how do we prevent crimes"?

How about taking some off the books, dumbass?

[Derpetologist]

"Well, why not just repeal laws against murder?"

/inevitable authoritarian counterargument

The "why not legalize murder" argument boils down to "no law should ever be repealed."

[Derpetologist]

A disparate racial impact does not prove racism and is not a good argument for reforming the system.

Assuming that all groups are identical in preference is stupid. See Sowell's "By the Numbers":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXkKxvCT9MQ

[Whahappan?]

But drug usage rates are the same for blacks but they are MUCH more likely to be arrested, prosecuted, convicted and incarcerated for drug crimes, from simple possession on up.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

That's no shirt, it's a mini dress!

[Fist of Etiquette]

So < i The Indepenenendents aren't going to address the core issue, which is the criminalization of every possible thing.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Literally every guest on tonight's show deserved to be subjected to the aftershow. What a crime this one is a pretape.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

I'd be more inclined to STOP HAMAS NOW if they showed some Israeli women and insinuate that that is what Hamas threatens.

[Fist of Etiquette]

For ten years, no sales tax, no property tax, business tax, and no long term vision.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

The Reformation! What could go wrong?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

No, Rand Paul is trying to enfranchise nonviolent felons, right?

[Fist of Etiquette]

WHY WON'T < I THE INDEPENDENTS HAVE RAND PAUL ON THEIR SHOW? WHAT ARE THEY TRYING TO HIDE?

[GILMORE]

I think Rand is biding his time...

...for after his concession speech.

AH!! ...DOB...SHLEY Webster....

[Fist of Etiquette]

Also, you can't have two air drummers.

[Sevo]

You shouldn't have one.

[Derpetologist]

OT: I saw some video today of alleged Palestinian casualties from Israeli strikes. Strangely, their clothes were clean, there was no blood, not even their hair was mussed.

Huh.

[GILMORE]

Maybe that was the "Before" photo

[Derpetologist]

The guy I saw was being loaded into an ambulance. The other guy was limping.

[GILMORE]

Maybe it was a smart-bomb

and they have enormous IQs now

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Aaahhh, British Lou Dobbs!

[Fist of Etiquette]

He took Lou's job!

[Rev-Match]

TOOK HIS JERB!

[Fist of Etiquette]

Ah. Not Lou Dobbs.

[Rev-Match]

Don't do anything illegal or naughty over the weekend...

No promises.

[Max Power]

Is drinking beer on a boat illegal?(Probably?) I'm gonna do that.

[GILMORE]

Technically its a requirement

[Rev-Match]

Seconded.

[GILMORE]

News comment =

Ashley British Dobbs makes comment that American Airstrikes are using "500lb *laser-guided* bombs"

- now, look, i know that news people just read the shit on the card, and the news producers throw in details like that because it *sexes shit up* (fuck, they could be 'satellite guided' or 'radar guided' or fucking 'jihad-sensing tractor beam guided')...

but really = do we need to tell people 'lasers'?

1) I find it a little insulting (because am i supposed to be so dumb i clap my hands and go "ah huh ah huh he says lasers!")

and 2) - WTF. Maybe Derka-Jihad-Mullah-Gary might not should be informed about what guidance methods we use?? because when the sandstorm kicks up? he will know - lasers no worky. bombs no fall.

Fuck, man.

Don't get me started on Obama calling them 'targeted airstrikes'.

Really? Cause i'd thought maybe we'd just drop the shit at random and hope we get lucky. No?

[Sevo]

I bet you went to the ATM machine at 9AM this morning and keyed in your PIN number, which might be the same as your car's VIN number to...
Ah, the hell with it.

[Derpetologist]

Wouldn't it be better just to send a squadron of A-10s or maybe an AC-130 to circle that Sinjar mountain with orders to shoot anything that gets close?

[GILMORE]

they do have things to shoot back with, you know

also, in-air refuel requirements go way up, lots more exposure than they're going for right now

[Max Power]

Right on, JoMo. See, even the robots know!

[GILMORE]

ITS ALIVE!@!@