Crime

We Are the Police, and We Are Here to Help Kill You

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Early on the morning of November 19, Kenneth Chamberlain, a 68-year-old former Marine and retired correctional officer with a heart condition, accidentally set off his LifeAid medical alert pendant while sleeping in his White Plains, New York, apartment. Unable to contact Chamberlain via its two-way audio box, LifeAid called the White Plains Department of Public Safety. Police officers arrived to help Chamberlain 17 minutes later. Instead they ended up killing him.

When police knocked on his door, New York Daily News columnist Juan Gonzalez reports, a bleary and annoyed Chamberlain told them he was fine and did not need any help. They insisted on coming in anyway, and "a nearly hour-long standoff ensued." According to the official police report, officers "heard loud noises inside and thought someone else might be in danger." As more officers arrived with their guns drawn, Gonzalez says, Chamberlain "became increasingly agitated." Both Chamberlain's niece, who lived in another apartment upstairs, and the LifeAid dispatcher, who heard the whole confrontation via the audio box, offered to mediate but were rebuffed. Police camera footage, as described to Gonzalez by Chamberlain's son and the family's lawyers, shows that when the cops finally forced their way in, Chamberlain was "standing inside his apartment, wearing only boxer shorts, with his arms at his side and his hands empty." Yet the cops immediately tasered the man with a heart condition they had come to help, and later one officer (who so far has not been publicly identified) shot him twice in the chest—a moment the cameras missed.

Police say Chamberlain came at them with a knife. The family's lawyers say he was unarmed. White Plains Public Safety Commissioner David Chong deemed the shooting a "warranted use of deadly force." But on Friday, Gonzalez notes, "White Plains Mayor Tom Roach issued his first public statement of condolences to the dead man's family," apparently responding to critics who questioned the official account in light of the details that Chamberlain's family has brought to light. The Daily White Plains reports that "172,134 people have signed a petition urging the district attorney's office to release audio and video" of the confrontation. On Monday, more than four months after Chamberlain's death, the Westchester County District Attorney's Office confirmed that it will present the case to a grand jury.

Last week I noted another case in which police said they had to kill an "agitated" man who pulled a knife on them when they invaded his apartment.

[Thanks to Mike Miskulin for the tip.]

NEXT: Is the Obama Administration Giving States Flexibility When It Rejects Proposals to Reduce Medicaid Costs?

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  1. Oh, the rage this births inside me. I just can’t find any reasonable points between possible heart attack, forced entry, and warranted use of deadly force.”

    1. I don’t know what more it will take for the few good people in this country to understand that cops are sadistic bullies. All cops don’t abuse people; but, all cops look the other way when it happens. “More officers arrived with their guns drawn”. This is what cops call a “police party”.

      If you know anyone who doesn’t hate cops, tell them how ashamed of themselves they should be. That is what I do.

  2. “Yet the cops immediately tasered the man with a heart condition they had come to help, and later one officer (who so far has not been publicly identified) shot him twice in the chest?a moment the cameras missed.”

    If it matters, the shot twice was with a “beanbag gun,” not a real bullet. Doesn’t really matter since the guy still died– those and Tasers are really “less lethal,” not “nonlethal.”

    1. A hit to the chest breaks ribs and can send fragments into the heart. A strike in the abdomen can cause internal bleeding. A shot to the head can break the nose, crush the larynx or even break the neck or skull.

    2. I half expect the cops to say the Tazer is just a law enforcement issue defibrillator.

    3. Dunphy will be along shortly to explain to you that it REALLY wasn’t the taser that killed him. It was his heart condition, completely unrelated to the taser or the cops who decided to use it on him.

      Back the badge, bitch.

      1. Back the badge, bitch.

        Excitable deliriousness! Yeah, that’s the ticket!

  3. Lucian Chalfen, a press representative for the district attorney’s office, said the family and its attorneys were granted access to the audio and video as a courtesy. However, the recordings and other evidence that “may potentially be shown to a grand jury are not public record,” according to Chalfen. He couldn’t comment on whether the audio and video will be presented to the grand jury.

    Were they using the threat of grand jury to block the public from seeing and hearing the recordings?

    1. I’d assume so. There’s no nice sounding law about privacy (or anything else) that bureaucrats can’t find a clever way to abuse.

  4. This is ridiculous. These “police” actions have to stop. People are going to be agitated in their homes if the police are knocking on their doors. Hell, I get agitated if the girl scouts are knocking on my door. Also, why did the life alert company call the police and not a freaking ambulance?

    1. Why do you hate girl scouts? Internalized homophobia, perhaps?

      1. Yep! You win a kewpie doll (and you can have mine as well).

    2. They probably call 911. If they have a dedicated medical emergency line, the person who answered there could have also called the police.

    3. Standard practice any more is to roll the police along with the EMTs to these type calls.

    4. Ok, so the police just got there first. Thanks!

      1. The EMT’s didn’t show up during the hour long standoff? I’ll never sign up for LifeAid if all they do is call the cops on me.

        1. I don’t get the concept of LifeAid at all anymore. How is a cellphone not just as good, if not better, at performing the stated function?

          Is it because old people are just too fucking retarded to work anything with more than 1 button?

          1. Well, if you are actually having a stroke or heart attack or something, I could see operating a cell phone might be tough. And some old people are just too fucking retarded.

          2. My grandma tries to talk into cell phones while holding them upside down. Dementia patients definitely need something simple in case of emergency.

            But now I’m terrified that something like this will happen.

            1. ok ok, zeb and kibby have convinced me that lifealert is quite obsolete yet.

              1. *isnt

            2. Why the terror? When I reach the point where I don’t know which end of the phone to use, I’ll just push the button to have the cops come shoot me.

      2. Drake, I wondered that myself. The article mentions that the Life Aid people tried to mediate the situation, but does not bring up EMTs at all.

  5. I don’t know why anyone is surprised.

    He didn’t show sufficient respect for the uniform, and he paid the price.

    Nothing to see here. Move along.

  6. Scrap policing, bring back the wergeld. Yes, there would be trade offs, but so what? A 68 year old Vietnam vet was treated like a child and that is SOP in our fucked up society. Intolerable! Scrap policing for the sake of the maturation of our species.

  7. Why the fuck did the police even go to his door when an ambulance was called. That doesn’t make any sense. Why should the police always follow ambulances when there is no indication that any crime is happening? And what justification can they possibly have for busting into someone’s house who asks them to leave? Fucking murderers.

    Even if he did go after them with a knife, you ought to have the absolute right to stab anyone, badge or not, who breaks into your house for no good reason. Fuck.

    1. The police got there long before the ambulance in my case.

      1. I’m surprised you survived, assuming you were having a low blood sugar episode.

        1. I was shot. Thankfully they didn’t find the need to shoot me as well.

          1. I thought the cops’ shooting you necessitated the ambulance before I read the second sentence. But damn, being shot is pretty hardcore. Care to tell the full story?

            1. Shot in the leg by a friend of mine who was cleaning a gun. The bullet shattered my hip and they put me together with plates and screws and wires.

              Getting shot sucks. I recommend avoiding it if at all possible.

              1. Your ex-friend is jackass.

              2. Is this the type of man you want as your protector? Unlike Mr. Free, a hodgepodge of metal and circuits prone to rusting and breaking down in the rain, forced to please his women with a prosthetic organ, I am undamaged and 100% completely natural.

                I am a whole man and with my whole manliness, will protect you from the villainy of trolls. With great justice.

                #JWMOD

                1. I have been through the fire, and come out the other side a stronger man for it. JW is mere flesh and bone.

                  #SFMOD2012

                  1. yeah, i’d have to vote for the cyborg.

                    1. You do realize that he only wants to add your distinctiveness to his own, right?

                    2. THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!!

                2. Can we just have some glamor shots and be done with it?

                  1. I worry about you.

              3. Shot in the leg by a friend of mine who was cleaning a gun.

                The cops surely shot your friend though, right? I mean, they didn’t go out of their way like that and not get to shoot anyone themselves? Confused?

                1. They wanted to arrest him, questioning me as I went into shock on the living floor, even delaying the EMTs from getting me to the hospital so they could shout questions that I had already answered dozens of time.

                  1. The cops:

                    “SF, you must be pretty pissed at your friend…please, just say the word and we’ll be more than happy to pop him for ya. Are you absolutely POSITIVE he didn’t do it intentionally? Got any dogs?”

  8. I did not need this nut-punch right before lunch.

    There better be a patented Steigerwald nut-massage in the “p.m. Links” to make up for this!

    1. I have come from the future to assure you that there will be.

  9. Back when I was the superintendent of a large residential complex there were many occasions where I was requested to enter people’s apartments for wellness checks either called in by friends or family or through some emergency service provider like LifeAlert. It was a fairly regular thing, probably once every month or two.
    9 out of 10 of these situations were innocuous as most of the people were either fine and for one reason or another hadn’t been in touch with relatives for a variety of reasons or accidentally set off the LifeAlert box while dusting.
    Then there were the few incidences where the cops (townies who made +100K after only 5 years of service guaranteed) things turned ugly quick. One Sec-8 resident regularly had his door busted open and wrestled to the ground before transport to the local loony bin. While unpleasant to watch, the guy was a total fucking nutjob and the force was justifiable even in my cop-hatin ways.
    I did have the pleasure of saving a dog from an onslaught of high-velocity lead on one of these. Since I had the keys to the unit and knew there was a huge dog who absolutely adored me I was able to enter first and corral the beast. The cop behind me had his hand on his sidearm the moment he heard Harper (the dog) bark out in the hall.
    About six months after I left that same cop wound up shooting a bank robber.

    1. At least he got to shoot someone eventually. Shooting people or dogs is about the only way most cops are able to get hard.

      1. What’s the fun in having a job that involves carrying a gun if you don’t get to kill anyone with it?

      2. My mom still lives in town so I go their often. I ran into him at the 7-11 and his face brightened up when he saw me and said “Hey, did you hear about that scumbag I shot?”
        I fucking hate townie cops, especially the ones you grew up with, because he told me about the awesome erection he had that night and he thinks that is when he conceived his son. I felt kind of empty inside after that encounter.

        1. In a sane and just world, the soul of the man he killed would have been reincarnated in his son’s body.

          The son would grow up with a deep, irrational hatred for his father. When his father is old and feeble, his son would brutally sodomize and then slowly and painfully kill him.

          Alas, our world is neither sane nor just.

          1. Yeah, too bad your sane and just sodomizing-incest-world doesn’t exist.

              1. +1 basement

              2. +Fritzl

                I applaud your bold vision of justice.

    2. also, not all dogs are so lucky:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eq2lXZ32H0

      Standard disclaimer: likely get you fired.

  10. They had to shoot him, don’t you see? He didn’t have a dog and SOP is that if you kick down someone’s door you have to shoot some living entity, perferably a dog or other family pet. Since the old codger was the only living being inside the apartment they had no choice but to shoot him.

    RAGE… TAKING OVER!

    1. So it’s like Catholics doing the sign of the cross every time they’re near a church. If a door is busted down, something is getting shot. No dogs? Sucks to be you old-timer.

      1. I get it. So dogs aren’t really pets, they’re more like bullet buffers for when the cops eventually mistakenly no-knock your home.

        In that case everyone should keep a couple around.

        1. Why would you assume it’s a mistake? Unjustifiably, and unnecessarily, sure, but mistakenly implies it was unintentional.

    2. Someone needs to tell them that the whole “Gurkhas must draw blood if they unsheathe their khukuri” is a myth.

      1. Stormbringer must be quenched!

        1. In my college days, I had a friend who was a martial artist. He bought a sword from a pawn shop in Philly. The sword’s hilt was crafted from a human femur. The sword’s blade was stained with a reddish patina.

          I kept insisting that that sword was evil. He refused to believe me.

          Still, I haven’t read of him having undergone a killing spree.

          Yet.

          1. Was your friend a real martial artist or a “martial artist” (the latter being one of those guys who took a few lessons down at the local Cobra Kai when they were a kid and watch Ultimate Fighter every night while fondleing themselves)?

            If he was the former then you probably don’t have to worry about any killing sprees. They’re usually taught to control themselves in confrontations because they can hurt someone if they don’t. I’m guessing he was more the latter though. The real martial artists, you’ll never know what or how much they really know because they don’t feel any need to boast about it or prove anything to anyone. Or buy “cool” swords with handles made out of human femurs and red stain on the blade.

            Also, unless he paid several hundred dollars for the sword, it’s probably a cheap knockoff anyway.

            1. He was the real deal. A very humble and unassuming guy. We would practice meditation together. To be honest, I have no doubt that if the sword was really evil, he would have enough spiritual gumption to overcome it. Seriously though, he was just a sword collector.

              1. That’s cool, probably nothing to worry about WRT to killing sprees then. I’ve got a couple of swords myself, though nothing made with human remains. The only “real” one I’ve got is a tempered steel katana, made using the traditional “clay process” etc. That one set me back quite a few bucks. The others are a couple of knockoffs that various relatives have given me as a semi-joke present on B-days or whatever.

                1. I don’t have any swords that could really be used for combat. The closest I have is the traditional Thai sword (krabi) that hangs above the family shrine.

                  My kukhuri, on the other hand, was crafted in Nepal and, while not pretty, is more than capable of doing some serious damage.

                2. The only “real” one I’ve got is a tempered steel katana, made using the traditional “clay process” etc. That one set me back quite a few bucks.

                  Same here. I’ve got a matched set (katana and wakizashi) w/ nice hamon and olde style furniture. Wonderful things.

                  Holding a real sword in your hand makes you wonder how anybody could be crazy enough to actually get into a fight with someone waving around one of these three foot razor blades, much less wade into a full-blown battle.

          2. He probably dons ninja clothes at night and rises from the shadows with his necromantic instrument of destruction to knock down mail boxes. Mostly harmless until the day he gathers up the nerve to ask the office honey for a date and she laughs in his face.

            Reminds me, I had a bud who once went to prison for whooping the ass of a local deejay who sexually harassed his girlfriend — see, When Keeping it Real Goes Wrong who had a incredible sword collection. A Japan fetishist, it was all katanas. One was a two handed number I could barely hold straight. He was six foot seven, prison muscles, and welded it like I would a wooden cane.

  11. I guess what happened is, they arrived with the intention of entering the house and making sure Chamberlain was okay, but when he got all uppity and refused to let them in, they felt their authority being threatened and had to reassert it through any means possible, even though he told them there was nothing to worry about re the original cause of their being dispatched.

    1. Did they have grounds for entry once they were told that everything was ok? There was no crime reported and they had no reason to suspect one was in process. The man was responded to their knock, said all was ok and to please go away.

      I think White Plains is going to be paying a very large civil settlement and the officers involved may well find themselves behind bars when it is all said and done. Breaking and entering at a minimum, felonious assult probably the maximum.

  12. I’m sure dunphy will be along presently to tell you all that you’re just a bunch of bigots who hate the cops.

    1. Has Dunphy been around post-registration?

      1. Has dunphy been around after that last lesson I gave him with the help of MiNGe and a few others over his constant parsing of words and dishonesty in debate?

        I don’t know and I don’t care.

        1. Was MNG upset that someone was using his tactics?

        2. irony. you exhibit it

    2. i see the same silly ignoring of evidence and results based analysis as always.

      that asidewhether accidental or not, the guy triggered an emergency basis response call for help. he had a duty to open the door. as the VAST majority of people do

      he escalated the situation

      i have no idea if the shooting was justified.

      i do know he was a fuckign moron who substantially contributed to his death

      summon the police in an emergent nature (or fire/aid… who will call us for backup in many such situations i say as a former firefighter/medic), then open the fucking door for them

      period.

      if you don’t you risk escalation

      the last door i kicked (the last forced entry) was a girl whose parents caught her trying to hang herself in the garage at which point she ran to a bathroom and refused to open the door.

      she refused to unlock it

      i kicked.

      she was in the process of slicing her wrist and no, i did not shoot her but disarmed her (as cops do all the fucking time w/o a media report… the media only get a report when we shoot them), and there you go
      open the door. not doing so is irrational and gives responders EVERY reason to believe there is something else going on and they aren’t going away if they are doing their job

      to walk away based on his CLAIM as to his identity and that everything was ok would have been shirking their duty

      but agnostic on the shooting becaue there aren’t enough facts to know one way or the other

      1. Shorter Dunphy:

        How dare this prole not sufficiently clean the boots of his police superiors with his tongue?

        1. if you think opening the door after SUMMONING the police/aid on an emergeny basis is acting in fawning obeisance to the state, then … that pretty much explains your ridiculous pov right there.

          call 911, or the functional equivalent?

          open the fucking door.

          full stop

          1. call 911, or the functional equivalent?

            Not really the functional equivalent. I’m betting a large percentage of LifeAlert calls are false alarms, just as are most burglar alarms. Accidentally triggering a button you wear around your neck is a much easier thing to do than accidentally dialing 911. The cops and paramedics did their job by showing up and knocking. When he said, “I’m fine, go away,” that should’ve been the end of it. But as is so often the case, the cops didn’t like being spoken to that way, so like any other group of gangsters who can’t simply walk away from a personal affront, they escalated the situation.

            1. In Florida a false alarm will get you a citation and a fine. The amounts vary by County or City, but I’ve seen them listed listed from $25 up to $500.

            2. If he didn’t let them in, they couldn’t have looked for a roach in the ashtray to bust him for. So now he’s fucking with their stats, and that cannot go unpunished.

      2. Her parents, the property owners, initiated a call and invited you onto their property.
        Sorry, asshole, but apples and oranges. This guy did not escalate the situation. He didn’t even initiate the situation. Once he told the cops to leave, they were obligated to leave unless they had PC to enter his property. And that means PC that a crime is being committed. They had none. They escalated the situation. They murdered a man. It’s as plain as the Pinocchio-like nose on your face.

        1. you do not need PC of a crime

          first of all, you need RS in an emergent situation AND this situation would likely fall under community caretaking function

          i realize you are fucking ignorant on the law (as usual), but if you think police need PC that a crime is being committed to force entry – you are an idiot

          more legal analysis from somebody who doesn’t understand case law

          1. So it’s an “emergent situation,” yet he waited until nearly an hour before he and his buddies stormed the man’s house?

            That’s “emergent” to you? Holy fuck.

          2. e?mer?gen?cy/i?m?rj?ns?/
            Noun:
            A serious, unexpected, and often dangerous situation requiring immediate action.
            Arising from or needed or used in an emergency.

            Yeah, I’d be willing to bet that means sooner than almost an hour later.

            Face it, this cop got butthurt and they stormed the guys house well after an “emergency” would have justified entrance. Like, you know, if the guy had not answered the door or had been incoherent according to people who recognize his normal behavior pattern as opposed to a cop who had just gotten a door slammed in his face.

  13. White Plains Public Safety Commissioner David Chong

    “Dave’s not here man. Stop banging on my door.”

  14. Think there’s enough justif’n to do a study to determine anything statistical about incidents like this? Like secular or geographic trends?

    1. well, what are the statistics? let’s see. police kill people in a astoundingly tiny percentage of cases.

      i’ve posted the stats. feel free to research.

      and an obviously tiny percentage of those are in medical request for assistance calls, but a substantial %age of officer involved shooting involve EDP’s.

      hard to know for sure how EDP he was, but the fact that he refused entry after an emergent request is strongly suggestive of a person who is not in their right state of mind.

      imnsho

      1. the fact that he refused entry after an emergent request is strongly suggestive of a person who is not in their right state of mind

        Good thing they killed him then… *phew*

  15. we don’t know for sure what happened inside the house , so i remain agnostic as to whether the shooting was justified although if he lunged at the officer with the weapon it most likey was

    that aside… hitting the life alert whether by accident or not is an emergent request for aid response. we respond code 2. true when i was a firefighter medic as well as cop

    it’s the functional equivalent of a dropped 911 call

    the FACT (indisputable) that he triggered it, and that he refused police entry is substantial evidence that he was unreasonable. reasonable people recognize “hey i called for aid with an emergency summons, i have a duty to open the fucking door and let them check to see everything is ok”

    i recall an incident several years back where cops responded to a dropped 911 call, they knew somebody was inside (movement seen) and got no answer. sgt. declined ot give permission for a forced kick

    the next day? homicide scene.

    sure, he CLAIMED everything was ok, and that he was the person who pressed the button, but so what?

    again … was it justified?

    who knows? but the dipshit needlessly escalated the situation and evidenced his lack of reason and gave responders every reason to think something more was “up” by his refusal to allow entry

    file under: poor decision making

  16. results based analysis and ideologically based ignoring of key facts.
    how utterly unshocking

  17. (yes, this question is rhetorical)

    Why does this not get attention like the Trayvon Martin case? Because this seems to be exponentially more egregious.

    1. maybe the hysterical unjustified outrage quotient is zero sum?

      not much left after all the martin dipshittery, not to mention media doctoring of transcripts etc

  18. I had an encounter like this. someone called the police because they thought I was in trouble due to a faulty email I send out to a listserv. The police showed up and insisted they check out my apartment. I let them but do I have to?

    1. that depends. what did the email say?

      but again, the issue in this case was the request for emergent help came from inside the residence in question

      that is substantially relevant.

      i’ve kicked in many doors, many in dropped 911 calls, and two in medical request calls.

      a call to 911 from inside your house means that when the cops arrive, saying never mind and denying them entry will result in a door kick almost always with my agency

      a medical alert is the functional equivalent. it’s a code response call

      1. I meant to get help from the listserv but what ended up happening was an email that said “help” that went out to everyone.

        1. ok, well that sounds stupid. “help” in and of itself imnsho would not establish RS that you were an imminent danger to yourself

          1. I did have a suicide attempt a couple of years previous. They mentioned that when they came. But they could see I was okay, and confused about why they were there. They mentioned an email, but I didn’t figure it out until they were ready to leave.

    2. I let them but do I have to?

      Don’t let dunphy’s lies influence you. You have every right to refuse entry until a warrant is obtained or they have PC to enter without a warrant. If you refuse and they bust your door down, they will likely need to prepare their city’s checkwriter for the impending settlement.

      And if I’m wrong, I’m sure dunphy can cite the particular statute that compels you to allow an uninvited person onto your property sans warrant or PC in this type of situation.

      1. it’s not a statute, dipshit. it’s case law.

        sloopy has unsupported assertions. i have case law

        The Supreme Court has held that reasonable belief, the standard used when determining whether an officer may enter as a community caretaker, see Mincey, 437 U.S. at 392-93, 98 S.Ct. 2408, is a less exacting standard than probable cause. Maryland v. Buie, 494 U.S. 325, 336-37, 110 S.Ct. 1093, 108 L.Ed.2d 276 (1990). This has led to some concern that a police officer might use his or her caretaking responsibilities as a pretext for entering a residence. The Ninth Circuit, therefore, has held that to justify an entry like the one in the present case an officer must have actually believed that an emergency existed and the belief must have primarily motivated his or her actions. See United States v. Cervantes, 219 F.3d 882, 890 (9th Cir.2000), cert. denied, 532 U.S. 912, 121 S.Ct. 1242, 149 L.Ed.2d 150 (2001). This is contrary to the principle applicable when an entry is justified by probable cause to believe that a violation of law has occurred or is occurring; in those situations, the subjective intent of the officer is immaterial, see Whren v. United States, 517 U.S. 806, 813, 116 S.Ct. 1769, 135 L.Ed.2d 89 (1996).

        e.g.

        1. read that again … SLOOPY YOU IDIOT
          (note sloopy will not admit he was wrong. he claimed cops need PC to enter/warrant). they don’t

          proof?

          The Supreme Court has held that reasonable belief, the standard used when determining whether an officer may enter as a community caretaker, see Mincey, 437 U.S. at 392-93, 98 S.Ct. 2408, is a less exacting standard than probable cause. Maryland v. Buie, 494 U.S. 325, 336-37, 110 S.Ct. 1093, 108 L.Ed.2d 276 (1990).

        2. So in this situation, the cop on the scene believed there was an immediate emergency that needed him to enter the property, but it wasn’t so much of an emergency that he couldn’t call half of the department prior to entering?

          Bull fucking shit, you asshole. An “emergency” where someone’s health is in danger calls for an immediate response, not “nearly an hour-long standoff” as the police report stated. That smacks of “butthurt cop pissed off a man would not do what he was told” to any reasonable person.
          You just want everyone to do what they’re told, even when the one telling them has no right to do so, which was the case here.
          And yes, the SC says “reasonable belief,” which in no way was met here. I guess I conflated that with PC, so I was semantically wrong there. But having said that, they still need a reason beyond “guy won’t open the door, sohe’s hiding something.”

      2. it’s not a statute, dipshit. it’s case law.

        sloopy has unsupported assertions. i have case law

        The Supreme Court has held that reasonable belief, the standard used when determining whether an officer may enter as a community caretaker, see Mincey, 437 U.S. at 392-93, 98 S.Ct. 2408, is a less exacting standard than probable cause. Maryland v. Buie, 494 U.S. 325, 336-37, 110 S.Ct. 1093, 108 L.Ed.2d 276 (1990). This has led to some concern that a police officer might use his or her caretaking responsibilities as a pretext for entering a residence. The Ninth Circuit, therefore, has held that to justify an entry like the one in the present case an officer must have actually believed that an emergency existed and the belief must have primarily motivated his or her actions. See United States v. Cervantes, 219 F.3d 882, 890 (9th Cir.2000), cert. denied, 532 U.S. 912, 121 S.Ct. 1242, 149 L.Ed.2d 150 (2001). This is contrary to the principle applicable when an entry is justified by probable cause to believe that a violation of law has occurred or is occurring; in those situations, the subjective intent of the officer is immaterial, see Whren v. United States, 517 U.S. 806, 813, 116 S.Ct. 1769, 135 L.Ed.2d 89 (1996).

        e.g.

        1. read that again…

          LESS EXACTING STANDARD THAN PROBABLE CAUSE

          sloopy wrong … yet again… on the law…

          will he admit error?

          doubtful.

          he claimed they need PC

          i have supreme court caselaw that says in CC cases, which this case is (there is NO evidence of a crime. that’s not the issue. the issue is a request for help) the standard is LESS THAN PROBABLE CAUSE

          you decide who to believe

          i’ll take myself, citing the supreme court over sloopy’s unsupported assertions

      3. The police will argue that the 911 call, or the med-alert call is the probable cause. Justifying the action to enter onto your property and kick your door in.

        Also, thank Jesus for the registration system.

        1. no, they won’t argue that… because PC is not the requirement in a CC case… e.g. a medical response case, etc…

          again, see above cites and…

          The Supreme Court has held that reasonable belief, the standard used when determining whether an officer may enter as a community caretaker, see Mincey, 437 U.S. at 392-93, 98 S.Ct. 2408, is a less exacting standard than probable cause. Maryland v. Buie, 494 U.S. 325, 336-37, 110 S.Ct. 1093, 108 L.Ed.2d 276 (1990).

          1. again, LESS EXACTING STANDARD THAN PROBABLE CAUSE

            THOSE ARE NOT MY WORDS.
            THEY ARE THE SCOTUS

            i think sloopy is batting less than .500 on legal analysis

            not bad for baseball, but pretty sucky for here

            1. Again, case law must rule on a particular statute. So again, what is the statute the case law applies to here? Please note your citations please.

              For case law to apply, there has to be an applicable law, you turd. “Case Law” is not some loose term that is a catch-all for the legal profession. Every case applies to a particular statute and if you’re a cop, that statute ought to be easy to cite…especially if you’re kicking in doors.

              1. no, case law rules on ACTIONS as well

                sloopy you are wrong

                it really is this simple

                the police entered a house with less than PC on a CC case, and it was challenged

                the scotus eventually ruled : justified

                that’s all that is needed

                there need not be a code

                you really do not understand the law if you think every state action must have a “code”

                if that was the case, the penal code would be almost infinitely long because it would have to cover every possible legal police activity

                it cannot do that

                that’s why we have a constition as the limiter of actions, and the scotus as decider

                you are wrong.
                irrefutably.

                any lawyer here would agree

                or any sentient being who can read case law

  19. sloopy wrong on the law YET again

    he says: You have every right to refuse entry until a warrant is obtained or they have PC to enter without a warrant.

    the supreme court says….

    The Supreme Court has held that reasonable belief, the standard used when determining whether an officer may enter as a community caretaker, see Mincey, 437 U.S. at 392-93, 98 S.Ct. 2408, is a less exacting standard than probable cause. Maryland v. Buie, 494 U.S. 325, 336-37, 110 S.Ct. 1093, 108 L.Ed.2d 276 (1990).

    you alert a medical alert that is CLASSIC community caretaking. you don’t press medical alert because (generally speaking) you are claiming a crime is occurring. you are saying “i need help”, thus this is viewed in light of community caretaking function

    sloopy… wrong on the law.

    apology?

    1. What is the statute that permits them entry without PC? You can claim case law all day long, but it has to be codified, you stupid ignorant fuck.

      1. no, it does not have to be codified. the constitution limits state action.

        the SCOTUS is the ultimate arbiter of whether law/codes ARE CONSTITUTIONAL AS WELL AS POLICE ACTIONS

        you were wrong. you can’t admit it.

        you said cops need PROBABLE CAUSE

        I HAVE PROVEN BEYOND ANY SHADOW OF A DOUBT VIA SCOTUS CASES, YOU ARE WRONG

        I HAVE CITED THE EXACT CASES.

        YOU ARE WRONG.

        THE SUPREME COURT SAYS POLICE CAN DO X.

        THEY CAN DO IT

        THERE IS NO ‘CODE’ IN THE STATE OF WA THAT SAYS POLICE CAN APPLY FOR AND JUDGES CAN SIGN ‘NO KNOCK WARRANTS’

        AND YET… THEY CAN

        WHY?

        BECAUSE IN LIMITED CIRCS, BOTH THE 9TH AND SCOTUS HAVE AFFIRMED THAT AUTHORITAH

        THE SCOTUS IS THE ULTIMATE DECIDER, DIPSHIT

        most police conduct is not codified.
        there is no ‘code’ that says i can hit people with my baton, pepper spray them, or engage in foot pursuits

        there is no code that says i can say ‘stop police’

        etc.

        these authorities are looked at with the state of wa constitution and US constitution as limiters

        SOMETIMES LAW spells out limitations e.g. the rcw’s on deadly force

        USUALLY THEY DO NOT

        E.G. THE ABOVE EXAMPLES

        regardless, whether or not a code is written down, if the scotus says its unconstitutional, then it is

        cops can enter residences with less than PC in CC cases because

        THE SCOTUS SAYS THEY CAN

        suck it

        i ***knew*** you didn’t have the stones to simply say ‘i was wrong’

        1. Look upthread, faggot, and you’ll see I conflated PC for RS, and I admitted it.

          And by your logic, unless there is a law strictly limiting cops, then they are free to do whatever they want.

          Hate to break this to you, but it’s supposed to be the other way around. It’s us than have rights until you have a law allowing you to interfere.

    2. That’s the exception for exigent circumstances. Once the guy said he was okay, there’s no way I see exigent circumstances existing in any way, shape or form.

      1. again, at least you understand the law.

        i said from the beginning, that summoning the police via a lifealert, just like a 911 call is substantial evidence of exigency

        i know he SAID it was ok, but since he denied police entry, the question is “do they have to take his word on it?”

        i say – no they do not

        courts MAY rule otherwise.

        or rule that the cops were justified

        i do know with 100% certainty though, as you understand and sloopy does not- that they do NOT need PC (of anything, let alone a crime) to enter WHEN there is such exigency

        we can agree to disagree on whether there WAS exigency, but at least agree that if there is exigency, then a LOWER STANDARD than PC applies, as per the scotus

        1. Exigent circumstances requires a reasonable belief on behalf of the police that entering the dwelling is necessary in order to prevent an immediate risk to life or limb.

          The man told them he was okay. At that point, what immediate risk could have existed in the *reasonable* (not simply objective; reasonable) belief of a police officer?

          1. At that point, what immediate risk could have existed in the *reasonable* (not simply objective; reasonable) belief of a police officer?

            Anyone not doing what a cop tells them when ordered to do so is obviously exhibiting psychopathic behavior and is an immediate threat to mankind, even if he is in his own apartment with the door locked.

          2. Hey, they had good reason to believe he might be in danger of himself. It’s a good thing they killed him, RIGHT?!

        2. He never summoned the police.

          He has a right to deny entry unless they have a warrant.

          Courts will and have ruled otherwise. See below.

          They will not rule this justified.

          If the circs were “emergent,” why did they call half of the department to the scene before kicking in his door? Hardly sounds emergent to me. Seems pretty deliberate.

          But keep spinning the argument to the PC/RS discrepancy, even after I said I had conflated the two. Perhaps it will keep muddying the totality of what happened: cops waited a while and kicked in the door of a pissed-off but composed man and killed him.

          Can’t wait for the video/audio that will undoubtably run counter to the cops’ stories, which is the only explanation for the stonewalling.

  20. And just so you know, cops need more than a SC decision to just shoot people. Ask the City of Gilroy’s Treasurer if you doubt it.

  21. What are people arguing about here? The forced entry by the police is part of ordinary practice when they can’t see someone inside, and had it ended there, we wouldn’t be reading about this case. The mystery, and the only remarkable feature, is what happened after the police entered that resulted in this person’s being killed.

  22. Don’t police put people in handcuffs after they use the Taser on them? How could they possibly have needed to shoot the guy (twice) if they had already tasered him immediately after breaking into his house? It doesn’t sound like this guy was in any condition to shrug off the Taser and attack them with a knife which he didn’t have when they entered.

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