Why Was William Reddie So Agitated?

A Michigan prosecutor recently concluded that Crawford County Sheriff's Deputy John Klepadlo was justified in using deadly force to stop a man who lunged at him with a knife. Although a state police investigator wanted to charge Klepadlo in connection with the February 3 shooting in Grayling, Roscommon County Prosecutor Mark Jernigan, whom the Michigan Attorney General's Office asked to review the case, said Klepadlo responded appropriately to a potentially lethal threat:

The deceased was in possession of an edged weapon. The deceased pulled a knife and hid it behind his back. At the point where he pulls his hand forward and lunges at the officer, he is in such close proximity, and presents a clear danger of deadly force, the officer is left with no option other than to use deadly force to protect himself, the other officer and the three civilians that were present. The use of deadly force is completely justified, and therefore the homicide was justified.

Sounds reasonable, until you learn the circumstances of the shooting, which make it seem not quite so justified. "The deceased," William Reddie, drew the weapon, a four-inch pocketknife, because Klepadlo had come to his apartment, along with a city police officer and two employees of Children's Protective Services, to "remove" his 3-year-old son, Cameron. The Petoskey News explains why:

Lead [Michigan State Police] investigator Detective Sgt. Rick Sekely said events leading up to the shooting and attempts to remove the son from the residence began earlier in the day when officers went to Reddie’s apartment in response to a possible domestic disturbance.

Upon arriving at the scene and making contact with Reddie, officers indicated Reddie was on the phone in what seemed to be a heated argument with a woman. Reports indicate Reddie appeared agitated, and when officers stated they could smell the odor of marijuana in the apartment, Sekely said Reddie admitted to having smoked marijuana that morning. While at the residence, officers indicated they observed a minor child at the apartment. 

Sekely said officers, following protocol, contacted protective services to report Reddie had been smoking marijuana in the presence of his son.

Child services workers then went to the apartment, and Sekely said they confronted Reddie about consuming marijuana in the home and asked him to take a drug test. Sekely said workers indicated Reddie was agitated, and they felt uncomfortable while at the residence.

An emergency court order to remove the child from the care of Reddie was obtained by Child Protective Services, and they requested assistance from the sheriff's department and city police. 

In short, someone called the cops because Reddie was having a loud telephone conversation, whereupon the cops discovered that Reddie was a pot smoker, which automatically triggered the chain of events that led to his death. Is it a mystery that Reddie "appeared agitated" when cops burst into his home while he was in the middle of an argument, that he was again "agitated" when CPS workers dropped in and threatened to take away his son, or that he was even more agitated when they came by to follow through on that threat?

"I was on the phone with my son all day," Reddie's mother told the Crawford County Avalanche, "and that cop [Alan Somero, who responded to the domestic disturbance report, contacted CPS, and returned to snatch Cameron] was bullying him and harassing him so badly." The paper reports that she was "baffled" that "authorities attempted to take his son after tests indicated there was no marijuana or alcohol involved." (Post-mortem toxicology likewise found no traces of marijuana or alcohol—puzzling in light of the claim that Reddie "admitted to having smoked marijuana that morning.") She added that when CPS came for Reddie's son, "they took the only thing he ever loved." 

Needless to say, it is a bad idea to pull a knife on a couple of cops. But it is also a bad idea to presume that a pot smoker must be an unfit parent, justifying the legally blessed kidnapping of his son. I would even venture to say that seeing his father killed in front of him and then being whisked off to "foster care" was a worse trauma for Cameron than seeing his father smoke pot.

[via the Drug War Chronicle]

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  • ||

    Sekely said officers, following protocol, contacted protective services to report Reddie had been smoking marijuana in the presence of his son.

    A report for which they had zero (0) evidence.

    Post-mortem toxicology likewise found no traces of marijuana or alcohol—puzzling in light of the claim that Reddie "admitted to having smoked marijuana that morning."

    Unless they botched the tox screen, conclusive evidence that the cops are lying.

  • WTF||

    Well, since the magical ability of cops to 'smell' pot is instant justification for any actions that follow, including search and seizure, I would guess they are lying to cover their actions.

  • Almanian||

    Hell, in Ohio they can even guess how fast you're going, and the courts accept it. Experts, don't you know.

    True story, bro.

  • WTF||

    Wow. They don't even allow that in New Jersey. One night I blew past a State trooper going like hell, but as I went by and saw him, I slowed down before he got behind me. He pulled me over, of course, and comes up to the car and asks"Do you know how fast you were going?" I respond "Why no, officer, how fast was I going?" He starts laughing and says "I don't know, you slowed down to quick for me to clock you" and wrote me a warning because I had a headlight out.

  • ||

    "Do you know how fast you were going?"

    "Sure. The real question is, do you?"

  • Almanian||

    "Officer, how long have you been on the police force?"

    "About 8 years."

    "Well - I been drinkin and drivin for about 20 years, so I think we know who's the real expert here...."

  • Almanian||

    This - almost EXACTLY - happened to me a month or so ago - blew by the County Sheriff Hisself (not a Deputy Dawg) doing about 60 in a 25mph series of (nice) curves on my Ninja.

    *siren*

    "Do you know how fast you were going?"

    "No."

    "Well - neither do I - I couldn't get the radar on you...you know it's 25 through there?"

    "Oh - YES SIR..."

    He was actually cool and just asked me to slow down :)

  • Colonel_Angus||

    *SMASH*

    Your headlight is out. You have a nice evening.

  • ||

    Repeat the magic, 4th Amendment bypassing words: "I smelled marijuana."

  • WTF||

    I assume they also repeated the magic murder-justifying words "Stop Resisting!" while they were blowing him away in front of his son.

  • ||

    And he was in "possession" of a knife!

    "He's got huge, sharp-- eh-- he can leap about-- look at the bones!"

  • ||

    "That's no ordinary rabbit!"

  • ||

    "I warned you, but did you listen to me? Oh, no, you knew it all, didn't
    you? Oh, it's just a harmless little bunny, isn't it? Well, it's always
    the same. I always tell them--"

  • Almanian||

    "Shut up you stupid Scottish git!"

  • Loki||

    "What's he do, nibble your bum?"

  • ||

    I would even venture to say that seeing his father killed in front of him and then being whisked off to "foster care" was a worse trauma for Cameron than seeing his father smoke pot.

    You Soft-On-Crime Miscreant.

  • WTF||

    I would even venture to say that seeing his father killed in front of him and then being whisked off to "foster care" was a worse trauma for Cameron than seeing his father smoke pot.

    That's because you don't understand what's best for the children, like the State does.

  • Just dropping by||

    I can't imagine why this doesn't happen more often. I have to say, if government goons ever came to my house and took my children, there would shortly therafter be a string of serial killings involving CPSs and LEOs.

  • Colonel_Angus||

    If I had been taken from my family as a child, I wouldn't have had a peaceful attitude about it either.

  • Colonel_Angus||

    In particular, the arrogance of people assuring me that they are "trying to help" me in situations where they "knew what's best" generally induced contempt and rage from me towards those people. Something like being kidnapped by state goons would have been dangerous to them.

  • Almanian||

    Colonel, you clearly have anger issues, and I'm insisting that the County Mental Health agency detain you and work with you to improve your condition.

    It's really for your own safety...

    STOP RESISTING!!!

  • Alan||

    B-b-but - it's for the children!

    Just like the child-protecting labor laws that force runaways into prostitution!

    http://www.laweekly.com/2011-11-03/news/lost-boys/

  • Old Man With Candy||

    I would even venture to say that seeing his father killed in front of him and then being whisked off to "foster care" was a worse trauma for Cameron than seeing his father smoke pot.

    That will make a life-long libertarian out of him.

  • Loki||

    Which is far more traumatic. Libertarianism is a mental disorder, afterall. Blind obedience to the state on the other hand... /sarc

  • sarcasmic||

    You kidding? This kid will go through so much brainwashing that by the time he becomes an adult he will believe that owes a great debt to the state for saving him from his drug using father.

  • WTF||

    Unfortunately, this seems like the most likely scenario. Possibly to the point where he grows up to become a crusader trying to 'save' other kids from the trauma of drug-using parents.

  • WTF||

    In a few years they'll probably have the kid convinced his deceased father ruined his life by being a violent druggie, and the goons who invaded his home actually saved him.

  • sarcasmic||

    The goons who invaded his home certainly believe it.

  • WTF||

    You think so? I'm thinking they were just excited to be able to exercise their authoritah and justify shooting someone.

  • sarcasmic||

    Yes. I think the people in Child Protective Services believe that only they are qualified to know what is best for any child.

    They are trained professionals you know.

    They'd invade every home and confiscate every child if they had the chance.

  • Citizen Nothing||

    He loved Big Brother.

  • The Media||

    White guy. Don't care.

  • Almanian||

    Perfectly OK-cist

  • nonya||

    White guy...so libertarians care, and don't believe the cops.

  • Hugh Akston||

    If there is one well-established effect of marihuana use, it is a heightened state of physical and emotional agitation that can quickly turn to violence at the least provocation.

  • ||

    I saw a movie at an independent film festival in San Antonio a few years ago, done in the old 60's style, where teenagers smoked pot and turned into zombies. The director was totally poking at the ridiculousness of all the anti-drug propaganda. It was fantastic.

  • Reefer Madness||

    That is all.

  • Zeb||

    Yeah, it's pretty hard to make a parody of anti-drug propaganda that is more silly than the propaganda itself.

  • Colonel_Angus||

    I believe that motion pictures didn't really begin to develop as a sophisticated art until around the 60s. I see reasons to attribute this partly to drugs.

    Before the 60s, movies tend to be bland, mushy, not provoking much thought. And the acting was dry and unconvincing.

  • Just dropping by||

    I think that after almost every movie I see nowadays.

  • NeonCat||

    You need to see some pre-Code movies, then. I suggest Baby Face, starring Barbara Stanwyk, Three on a Match, with Joan Blondell and Bette Davis, or The Divorcee starring Norma Shearer.

    The Production Code blandified a lot of Hollywood movies.

  • ||

    Thanks for the recs.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    Reports indicate Reddie appeared agitated, and when officers stated they could smell the odor of marijuana in the apartment, Sekely said Reddie admitted to having smoked marijuana that morning.

    Post-mortem toxicology likewise found no traces of marijuana or alcohol

    Methinks Det. Sekely is a lying piece of shit.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    Additionally, dead men can't refute purported conversations

  • Almanian||

    Additionally, "Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid"

  • ||

    "Whatever he's paying you, I'll double it and we can beat the shit out of him."

  • Almanian||

    "Her name is Ann Mehhhllmmmmhhhhhhhaaaah..."

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    "your breasts were out of whack..."

  • ||

    CLEANING WOMAN! CLEANING WOMAN!

  • Almanian||

    +2

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    "you can be my little heinermacherfrau..."

  • Joe M||

    Those scenes where she sucked out the bullets always gave me a funny feeling even as a young boy.

  • ||

    Beat me to it.

    Haven't seen it in ages, but I recall it as a pretty funny movie.

  • Det. Sekely||

    Oops! My bad. I had smoked marijuana that morning.

  • Det. Sekely||

    Oops! My bad. I had smoked marijuana crack that morning.

  • Det. Sekely||

    Looks like I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue!

  • sarcasmic||

    Obviously the tox screen was wrong if it contradicted the police report.

  • ||

    we really need to wait until all the evidence is in to evaluate this, it seems like procedures were followed

    hth

  • Almanian||

    EXCELLENT!

    +50

  • Jess Asken||

    The deceased was in possession of an edged weapon.

    If an "agitated" person has his hand on a chair, is he in possession of a blunt weapon?

  • ||

    Since the dead guy was in his house, wasn't he technically "in possession" of everything he owned? That's like, a whole fucking arsenal of potential weapons!

    Why Do You Hate Occifer Safety?

  • Almanian||

    Beat me to it.

    Is an Edged Weapon a new Ford vehicle? Or, like, the corner of a table? U2's guitar player's taken a last name?

    Son, I am confuse.

  • Dal||

    Of course! Before long (if not already), just looking agitated will be deemed sufficient cause for use of 'deadly force' - being a possible precursor to possible violent resistance...possibly.

    After all, the US guvment now has well-established precedent of 'preemptive aggression' in its foreign policy, which is bound to eventually influence domestic policy as well...

  • ||

    That's downright (Arnold) Toynbeean. And true, too.

  • sarcasmic||

    The slightest disrespect will be considered violent resistance, and treated as such.

  • NeonCat||

    And if you aren't agitated, it will be noted that you have a cold, dead stare, like a serial killer, and that's why you needed to be shot.

  • ||

    He had a lighter and I'll bet you there was a can of hair spray somewhere!

  • Loki||

    If an "agitated" person has his hand on a chair, is he in possession of a blunt weapon?

    Yes. Especially if the person may be high on pot. Pot can make you retard-strong, and that chair could be thrown at Officer Safety's head. He has to shoot just to be sure.

  • ||

    "Hi. This is Wilford Brimley. Welcome to Retardation: A Celebration. Now, hopefully with this book, I'm gonna dispel a few myths, a few rumors. First off, the retarded don't rule the night. They don't rule it. Nobody does. And they don't run in packs. And while they may not be as strong as apes, don't lock eyes with 'em, don't do it. Puts 'em on edge. They might go into berzerker mode; come at you like a whirling dervish, all fists and elbows. You might be screaming 'no, no, no' and all they hear is 'who wants cake?' Let me tell you something: They all do. They all want cake."

  • ||

    Hey, you Guys! Rocky. . .Road?

  • ||

    Shame that this guy is dead, but he sure didn't try to avoid his fatal confrontation even a little.

    If you want to smoke pot, yell and scream, and generally act like an asshole - get a cabin out in the woods, not an apartment in town.

    People get particularly concerned (even if it is none of their business) when you carry on like a maniac in front of kids. Don't do it, especially in front of the authorities, or they will take your kids away.

    Cops carry guns, so don't pull a knife on them.

    Evolution in action.

  • Almanian||

    If you want to smoke pot, yell and scream, and...

    after tests indicated there was no marijuana or alcohol involved

    So, yeah, I believe the rest of the story, too, and assume he was "agitated" and threatened occifers with an "edged" weapon.

    Cause cops never lie. Even when "no marijuana or alcohol" are involved.

    Sounds like we need a little evolution for teh occifers....time has come today..

    /Chambers Bros

  • ||

    Corruption in action, you mean. NO evidence that the guy smoked marijuana, re toxicology.

  • WTF||

    If you want to smoke pot, yell and scream, and generally act like an asshole - get a cabin out in the woods, not an apartment in town.

    Since the toxicology tests showed he did not, in fact, smoke marijuana, don't you think that might put the rest of the cop's story in question? Or do you think he deserved what he got for having a loud phone conversation?

  • WTF||

    Shame that this guy is dead, but he sure didn't try to avoid his fatal confrontation even a little.

    Pretty tough to avoid a confrontation when armed goons invade your home.

  • Almanian||

    STOP. RESISTING! WHY is this so hard for you people to understand?!

  • ||

    If you want to smoke pot, yell and scream, and generally act like an asshole - get a cabin out in the woods, not an apartment in town.

    Which works, until the County Inspectors come to force you off your property.

  • Almanian||

    after tests indicated there was no marijuana or alcohol involved

    Well.....it got better...

  • WTF||

    So, can this be claimed as another victory in the War on Drugs?

  • Randy||

    You win wars one battle at a time, so yes.

  • Almanian||

    OT - my mom's side of the family lived in Petoskey when I was growing up in the 60's/70's, so we were up there constantly on vacation and stuff. It's changed a lot (touristy now and overgrown compared to then) - but still just a stone gorgeous area of the state. Just beautiful.

    Glad to hear that proximity to Little Traverse Bay has no effect on cops' behavior - wouldn't want to dull that edge (like an edged weapon! get it!).

  • Sheriff Spokesperson||

    Because toxicology reports aren't always 100% accurate, we have to rely on the officer's testimony.

  • sarcasmic||

    If they corroborate the officer's testimony they're 100% accurate.
    If they conflict then they are unreliable.

  • WTF||

    Well, he certainly smelled marijuana, and the courts have ruled that cops have the equivalent of an analytical lab in their noses when it comes to this.

  • sarcasmic||

    I made the mistake of showing my stepson's father my homebrewing operation a while back when he picked the kid up.
    At the time he wasn't officially a police officer, but he was riding along and playing dress-up.

    First thing he says is "I smell marijuana", which was an impossibility since, at least since I bought the place, any smoking of anything happens outside.

    He was just playing cop and saying something he knew to be a lie just to get a reaction.

    He has not come inside my home since, and never will. It could be a fucking blizzard and he can wait outside for all I care.

  • WTF||

    He was just playing cop and saying something he knew to be a lie just to get a reaction.

    I bet he's just an excellent addition to the force.

  • sarcasmic||

    I bet he's just an excellent addition to the force.

    Well over six feet tall, steroid junky, and according to my wife prone to violent rages (that's why she left him).

    I will not be surprised when I read of him killing someone on the job.

    Yes, a fine addition to the force.

  • ||

    He has not come inside my home since, and never will.

    Something to hide...occifer safety...kids involved....sarcasmic found dead at the scene...nothing else happened.

  • sarcasmic||

    We actually talked about that, my wife and I, and he no longer comes here to pick up the kid. We do all the driving.

  • ||

    I don't recall reading about the officers claiming they saw him smoking.

    Toxicology says nothing about what odors were present or what the guy said.

  • WTF||

    FTA:

    Reports indicate Reddie appeared agitated, and when officers stated they could smell the odor of marijuana in the apartment, Sekely said Reddie admitted to having smoked marijuana that morning.

    They claimed they smelled pot, and further claimed he admitted smoking it that morning. The toxicology report contradicts both claims.

  • sarcasmic||

    "and that cop was bullying him and harassing him so badly."

    I'm thinking that the lady hasn't ever had the misfortune of having to interact with the cops.

    If she had they she would understand that bullying and harassing is SOP.

    I mean, what's the point of having a job that involves carrying a club and a gun if you don't provoke people into giving you a opportunity to use the tools of the trade?

  • The Cops||

    Good shoot. Clean kill.

    *fist bump*

  • Colonel_Angus||

    "it is a bad idea to pull a knife on a couple of cops"

    Not in my fucking house.

    When cops cunts abruptly confront someone in that person's own normal territory of comfort, the cunts should be held to an understanding that the person's judgement, legitimately motivated by fear, may result in that person responding with a defensive reaction; and by initiating the confrontation in a situation where a person justifiably expects a right to protect them self, people important to that person, and the person's property, the cunts chose to put themselves in a situation where they may get hurt.

  • sarcasmic||

    the cunts should be held to an understanding that the person's judgement, legitimately motivated by fear, may result in that person responding with a defensive reaction

    Which for them is an opportunity to use the tools of the trade.

    People don't seek out a job that can involve sanctioned use of deadly force because they in no way want to be put into a situation where they may have to use it.

  • Lynn||

    Yet another reason for birth control voices their opinion.

  • Almanian||

    Please! Please! Let's not bicker about who killed who! This is a festive occasion!

  • Almanian||

    We are here today to witness the union of two young people in the joyful bond of the holy wedlock young man and his family playing together happily. Unfortunately, one of them, my son Herbert William Reddie, has just fallen to his death committed Suicide By Cop.

  • Pip||

    So did John leave as a result of that Mary Stack shit?

  • Loki||

    Question: do they even bother teaching cops anything about how to control and de-escalate tense situations anymore? Or is it all just "intimidate & dominate" (rhetorical question)? Also, do they bother teaching cops how to fight without relying on their 9mm of courage (I'm refering to their guns, not their dicks, though one would be justified in speculating otherwise)?

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Sometimes they use their +1 Taser of Shocking.

  • ||

    I lol'd

  • Lynn||

    The problem is not every situation can be de-escalated but some people lack the appropriate knowledge and level of intelligence to comprehend such a concept. Oh and if you knew anything you'd know they dont carry 9mm anymore because they are ineffective in stopping an attack (not enough stopping power). There is no fighting someone with a knife. I've seen World Champions in Fighting for Karate training in Self Defense against a knife and as fast and good as they are they still get cut by that rubber knife. The best they can do is pick where they get cut while getting ahold of the weapon.

    Note: For those with no self defense training or research abilities- Knives are more dangerous than guns.

  • ||

    In short, someone called the cops because Reddie was having a loud telephone conversation, whereupon the cops discovered that Reddie was a pot smoker, which automatically triggered the chain of events that led to his death. Is it a mystery that Reddie "appeared agitated" when cops burst into his home while he was in the middle of an argument, that he was again "agitated" when CPS workers dropped in and threatened to take away his son, or that he was even more agitated when they came by to follow through on that threat?

    Don't you get it? NONE of the circumstances leading up to the shooting are relevant. As soon as the baboons with guns show up, any refusal to display sufficiently submissive behavior justifies summary execution.

    A noted authority taught me that.

  • Realist||

    Most of the above responses are bullshit he pulled a knife on an armed cop...the cop shot him end of story. It doesn't matter why the fucking idiot pulled a knife...he's dead. Since weed was involved all the idiots here are up in arms. I am for making all deugs legal....but not pulling a knife on a cop!

  • WTF||

    he pulled a knife on an armed cop

    We know this because cops never lie. Even though they said he admitted smoking marijuana and the toxicology report from the lab found no marijuana. Yeah, I see your point.

  • ||

    You have no reason to think the cop is lying (and there were two CPS workers with them too, so they would have to be lying too).

    Assuming that cops ALWAYS lie is just as intellectually lazy as assuming they never do.

  • ||

    Assuming that cops ALWAYS lie is just as intellectually lazy as assuming they never do shifting the burden of proof onto The State as the initiator of force.

    Ftfy.

  • ||

    This isn't a jury box, dude.

  • ||

    correct. and as Proper Procedure was followed, it never will be.

  • WTF||

    The fact that the toxicology report contradicts the cop's statement about the victim smoking pot is reason to think the cop is lying.

  • Tim||

    "(and there were two CPS workers with them too, so they would have to be lying too)."

    No, they wouldn't.

    You have either misread or misinterpreted the timeline.

    The cops were there, supposedly heard him admit it, and then called CPS.

    There's no reason so believe that CPS has anything other than the claims of the cop to rely on, it's entirely possible the cop told CPS the same lie he put in his report.

  • DK||

    Well, did you read the responses that cast the officer's testimony into question? If the toxicology report refutes the officer, how confident are you in the rest of their testimony?

  • sarcasmic||

    When the evidence contradicts the officer's testimony, always defer to the officer.

    Didn't you know that?

  • ||

    Explain how the toxicology report refutes the officer.

    The officer did not state that he saw the guy smoking MJ.

  • sarcasmic||

    The officer stated that he marijuana and that the guy admitted to smoking the stuff.

    If the tox report showed no sign of it, then how could the officer have smelt it and why would the guy admit to it?

    Seems to me like the officer is full of shit, and used the standard "I smell marijuana" lie as false probable cause to initiate a chain of events that ended in the officer taking a boy's father's life right in front of him, and he will face no consequences.

    Hell, he'll probably get a medal.

  • Lynn||

    The officer who smelled marijuana is not the same officer who pulled the trigger. the kid wasn't in the room when it happened and I know the cop who shot him. I trust that cop with my life. For him to pull that trigger there had to be no doubt in his mind that his life was in danger. Self Defense is not a crime in Michigan if you dont like that move to a state where you dont have the right to defend yourself.

  • The Facts||

    Were the cops armed and in HIS house? Yes? Then he should have every right to defend himself and his family from a gang of armed thugs.

  • ||

    "Do you know how fast you were going?"

    "No. The speedometer in this car only goes to eighty five."

  • ||

    lousy Deloreans.

  • ||

    he pulled a knife on an armed cop...the cop shot him end of story.

    Those boots ain't gonna lick themselves, you know.

  • ||

    Look who has an insult instead of an argument. Surprise!

    Are you angling for Generalissimo of the Axis of Glib now? Epi won't give that up without a fight, you know.

  • ||

    Let's recap:

    Tox screen shows no pot.

    Its reasonable to conclude at that point that the cops are lying when they say (a) they smelled pot and (b) he admitted smoking pot.

    Now that their credibility is shot, all we have really have to go on is that a man was shot by a cop who has been already been caught in a lie.

    Imagine, if you will, that a non-LEO shoots someone, and their story about how it was all self-defense is shown to contain material lies.*

    Do you suppose anyone would take the rest of their story at face value? That there wouldn't be any kind of investigation, followup, etc. at all?

    *No, I'm not talking about Zimmerman. AFAIK, he hasn't been caught out on any lies. This is just the usual "No double standard, huh?" post.

  • ||

    Er, there's no indication it was the same cops in the two visits.

  • sarcasmic||

    But the officer swore and oath.

    An oath I tell you!

  • ||

    Also, tox showed the presence of other controlled substances in his system. Maybe he thought by admitting to pot he wouldn't be harrassed about the other stuff? And the MJ story wasn't made up after the shooting, as that was the reason CPS went there in the first place. If the cops made it up they would have had to make it up immediately after the first visit. I don't see the motivation there, especially since they didn't make an arrest.

  • ||

    If the cops made it up they would have had to make it up immediately after the first visit. I don't see the motivation there

    "Nothing we can take him in on. But he's got a kid, lets call CPS and say we smelled pot, that should ruin his day more than we were able to."

  • ||

    That's a possibility, but this chain of events is getting more and more contrived.

  • ||

    I think we can safely conclude that the cops were lying when they said they smelled pot, yes?

    And saying that he admitted to smoking pot when he hadn't, because he didn't want to be embarrassed about other stuff, strikes me as more contrived than just concluding the cops were also lying when they said he admitted it.

    Now, the first lie was to a citizen, and the second was to their bosses, true. But it was the same cops who told both lies.

  • sarcasmic||

    There were traces of other drugs, but Wakefield said it was unclear if they were prescribed to Reddie.

    Unclear does not mean "other stuff".

    It means "unclear".

    What is increasingly "clear" is that police use "I smelled marijuana" when they did not smell marijuana as a pretense for being a dick, and routinely get away with it.

    Even though it is a felony to lie on official records and in court, what is "clear" is that police do it as a matter of course.

    Perjury is part of the job description.

  • Maxxx||

    Pretty much.

  • ||

    In short, someone called the cops because Reddie was having a loud telephone conversation, whereupon the cops discovered that Reddie was a pot smoker, which automatically triggered the chain of events that led to his death.

    Um, you forgot about the fact that he PULLED A KNIFE ON A COP ENFORCING A COURT ORDER. You don't think that's relevant?

    So let's get this straight: Reason is against no-knock raids in the middle of the night (rightly), AND against cops defending themselves when attacked serving a court order in the middle of the day after politely knocking on the door. It's hard not to conclude you guys are just against cops period.

  • WTF||

    Um, you forgot about the fact that he PULLED A KNIFE ON A COP ENFORCING A COURT ORDER.

    No, it is not a fact - it is a claim made by the same cops who claimed they smelled marijuana, and further claimed Reddie admitted smoking it earlier in the day. Since those claims are contradicted by the toxicology report, that would seem to cast doubt on the other claims the cops have made in this case.

  • ||

    Since, that's the deal once your credibility is impeached.

    ALL of your testimony is cast into doubt. Hence my question:

    Imagine, if you will, that a non-LEO shoots someone, and their story about how it was all self-defense is shown to contain material lies.

    Do you suppose anyone would take the rest of their story at face value?

  • ||

    My two year old recently broke his femur falling off the back of one of those flintstones feet propelled style pickup car things. Someone in the hospital called CPS and I must say when they and the cops showed up I've never before in my life felt as much rage as I did at that time. I fly off the handle but amazingly kept it all in since my wife was already in hysterics. It ultimately was recorded as unfounded, but damn there is no explaining that feeling when cops and a recent college grad CPS chick threaten to take your child from you.

  • Colonel_Angus||

    I got a black eye from a playground accident at a private school when I was very young. My mother was called, and she took me to the hospital. The hospital employees became aggressively intrusive in seeing if my mother had given me a black eye, the only reason being that my mother personally took me to the hospital, which meant the school's personnel weren't readily available to explain the incident. At one point they even got me separate from my mother to see if I was telling the truth. Even at that age, I realized it was insulting to my mother, but more importantly it was insulting to me. Nevermind that I had a fucking painful black eye, which meant that whatever they were telling me was making no goddamn sense at the time. My release probably included some communication from the school.

  • ||

    I will pray for 18 years that I never have to take my daughter to the ER. Holy shitballs.

  • Mensan||

    You'll often hear medical staff try to brush off any responsibility for that too. They'll tell you they have no choice; that they must report it. That's bullshit. We're only obligated to report it if we suspect abuse. Some providers are just a lot more suspicious of abuse than others. I was never abused as a kid, but I'm pretty sure I constantly had bruises and cuts and scraps (occasionally broken bones) just from playing in the woods or falling off my bike.

  • Lynn||

    I work in medicine and I was a victim of domestic violence as a kid. The problem becomes it in many cases is very difficult to be able to tell if it's normal childhood bruises or if that kid is being abused. Personally coming from a background of emotional/verbal and on rare occasions physical abuse I err on the side of caution because I do not want to have a kid as a repeat patient to find out I was wrong in not reporting it.

    It just depends on the situation and type of bruise though, how the stories line up, is the kid acting afraid of their parents, does the mechanism of injury match the injury, etc. Not a fun decision to make and you always worry about being wrong no matter which way you go with it.

  • Colonel_Angus||

    SWAT raids are wrong. And, for warrants that are justifiable, they have a right to defend themselves, but it is complicated by the fact that they may be reasonably perceived as threatening to one's right to life and property. The justification for deadly force can not be completely regardless of the legitimate rights as well as the likely state of mind of someone in this situation. Law enforcement should be accepting of more risk than the cop who killed this man did. Individual rights are worth a high standard of restraint from people who choose to put themselves in a position where they are supposed to be protecting rights, but can very easily violate them.

  • Lynn||

    I'm sorry but our law enforcement officers take more than enough risks without adding even more. So what you're saying is that if the cop had been stabbed, cut or killed that's ok? How sick of a person are you? Do you have no respect for the people who risk their lives daily just by going to work? A police officer shouldn't have to be severly injured before he is allowed to defend himself! If someone comes at you with a knife and you have a gun are you going to let them cut you first because I sure in the hell am not! If you aren't going to let them cut you before you defend yourself that makes you a hypocrite.

  • ||

    Reddie . . . Red Die . . . Red Eye.

    I don't think cops need more of a reason than the unusual name.

  • shrike||

    Better dead than Red

  • Ryan||

    the officer is left with no option other than to use deadly force to protect himself, the other officer and the three civilians that were present

    Could he not have shot him somewhere that wouldn't kill him...?

  • Ryan||

    And did he have a taser? It seems like that's pretty much the situation they're made for.

  • Mensan||

    That's exactly what I was thinking. I'm against using tasers in most of the situations where cops use them (for compliance). It seems like most of the times that we hear about police killing somebody, the taser would have been a good option in that situation. There's still a chance it kills them, but a bullet is more of a definite.

  • ||

    Somebody's watched too many Hollywood movies and TV shows.

    Shooting to wound is the best way to get yourself killed in an SD situation. You shoot to stop... wound or kill is up to God.

  • Lynn||

    First off I know the deputy who shot him, he's not the type to even pull his gun unless he feels his life is in danger.

    Second the kid was not in the room when his father was shot and I imagine he's no less traumatized than if his father had suceeded in his obvious intent to do the deputy great bodily harm or killed him and gone to prison for it leaving him... fatherless and still in the system.

    Third, Tasers are not meant for deadly force situations! They are meant for non-lethal force situations ie resisting arrest, fist fights, etc. The fact of the matter is for those tasers to work both probes have to connect with an assailant's skin, loose clothing, thick clothing, a misfire of the taser or one of the probes missing would mean an officer who used a taser in a deadly force situation just got someone potentially killed because he didn't pull his gun.

  • Lynn||

    Finally, there have been studies where people have been hit by a lethal shot and still keep coming. If someone is determined to kill you with a knife shooting them in the arm, leg, etc is not going to stop them and since cops aren't mind readers when someone lunges at them with a weapon they have to assume they're trying to kill them. As for me personally were citizens allowed to carry tasers if someone comes at me with a knife and every option the cops have is available to me I am pulling a gun and shooting them center mass just like they teach in self defense. I am not pulling a taser (they can and do fail), pepper spray (can be fought through) or anything other than a gun if I have that option because when someone else makes me decide whether they live or I do... I'm the one who's going home.

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