Congressional Democrats Propose Amending the Constitution to Censor Newspapers
UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh runs down the free speech-crushing consequences of HJR 90, a proposed constitutional amendment backed by House Democrats including Reps. Theodore Deutch (Fla.), Peter DeFazio (Ore.), and Alcee Hastings (Fla.), which would forbid "for-profit corporations, limited liability companies, or other private entities established for business purposes" from "making contributions or expenditures in any election of any candidate for public office or the vote upon any ballot measure submitted to the people." As Volokh explains, this would be bad news indeed at places like the New York Times Company:
Nearly all newspapers, TV stations, cable networks, and rations (except of course for nonprofits such as NPR) are organized as corporations or other entities established for business purposes. Under section 3, they "shall be prohibited" from making expenditures "in any election of any candidate … or the vote upon any ballot measure." Since to write or print or broadcast anything, newspapers, networks, and broadcasters must spend money, this would ban — not just authorize Congress to ban, but itself ban — editorials supporting or opposing a candidate or a ballot measure.
This proposed amendment is obviously just the latest feverish response to the Supreme Court's decision in Citizens United v. F.E.C. (2010). That's sort of funny, because despite all the doom-and-gloom commentary about Citizens United, it's the decision's critics who are now basically calling for the repeal of the First Amendment.
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First!
Are unions organized for a business purpose?
Not according to the commenters on HuffPo.
example:
"What's wrong with Union money? Union members are citizens who join forces to negotiate and make their voices heard. They are democratic organizati ons of actual workers. Why do you want to even put it in the same thread as Corporate money, which is beholden to NO people, but only profit?"
As yes, Profit, that evil, one-eyed monster from the 10th Dimension who is definitely an anthropomorphized entity but certainly not a person. So, we meet again.
Good thing unions don't profit (increase the income) of their members.
The stupid runs strong in this one.
Doesn't this person know that Santa's elves formed a union and Santa had to ship all of their jobs to China, and now all the poor little elves are starving to dearh?
Sounds like a corporation to me.
obviously this would have to be adjudicated assuming it was passed & signed into law.
Such blinding insight. The sky is blue too!
you may massage teh wisdom fm my font now. ahhh, that's right...
Hey Dope - its a proposed constitutional amendment. If it is "passed & signed into law" it will be the law of the land. It could not be "adjudicated."
answered below before ur post. thx for playin...
Team BLUE only like free speech when it cheer-leads their side....... Shocking.
(Could just as easily be team RED)
I'm no fan of Republicans, but I can't recall one calling for any restrictions of the amount of money spent by unions.
McCain?
Did McCain-Feingold block unions? The NEA didn't become the 2nd biggest political contributor in the country without actually giving away the cash.
You mean like the Taft-Hartley Act?
Hiya, Reasonistas! Remember me? Well, I decided to apologize for being such a dick. In return, I decided to link to a truly stupid piece about "booty calls" that I wrote back in college. Laugh away!
http://web.archive.org/web/200.....?artid=419
Why bother writing about this when it has less than zero chance of being enacted?
I think it's important to be constantly reminded that politicians will do anything to acquire, hold, and consolidate power. Even if it has 'zero chance of being enacted'.
Reporting on these things keeps our minds fresh on the idiots that should be executed for treason. Some guy with the last name "douche" can be forever associated with this retarded attempt at legislation, no matter how unlikely it is.
Willing to bet on that, Colin?
McCain-Feingold got passed, didn't it?
SB 1867 got put on the table just recently. Just the fact that it was offered - even if it never passes - is proof of a need for alarm.
And that's just two examples of how we're on the road to fuckededness.
Anything is possible in our New Fascist State, especially if they couch it as "Homeland Security" or "Public Safety".
Sorry o3, constitutional amendments aren't adjudicated, they are interpreted. This is a repeal of a portion of the first amendment. No opportunity to heap mockery and scorn on its sponsors should be passed up.
yep & this aint going anywhere.
And our liberal friends in the federal courts will find a way to interpret the ammendment to mean that the Gray Lady can editorialize all she wishes to on the front page, but Reason and the Weekly Standard have to STFU. Additionally, unions can hire flash mobs to disrupt non-Democrat campaign functions, but Team Blue must be left to spread their sweetness and light message. Its for the CHILDRENZ, after all.
"Its for the CHILDRENZ, after all."
It's....arrgh!
What ?
this would ban ? not just authorize Congress to ban, but itself ban ? editorials supporting or opposing a candidate or a ballot measure.
Oh, its worse than that. This language:
making . . . expenditures in any election of any candidate for public office
bars any reporting on political races. That reporting requires an expenditure, yes? So a story about candidate or election would be an expenditure in an election, wouldn't it?
The only thing saving us from the malice of these people is their abject stupidity.
It's like a bad movie - the plot only works because the bad guys are morons.
Eitther that, or it does almost nothing; what does it actually mean to spend money "in an election"? That means companies can't buy the voting booths or rent space to set them up? Because running an ad saying who you think people should vote for doesn't actually have any thing to do with an election, if you parse reality the right way. It's just communication of an opinion. Least that's how I'd shoot this crap down if I were the judge.
+1
This just proves how crazy Republicans are.
What's really funny is that this is obviously supposed to overturn Citizens United, but wouldn't, because the plaintiff in that case wasn't "organized for business purposes".
Utter, abject morons.
See my "bad movie" comment above.
I wonder how quickly these fuckstains will be returning campaign donations already made to them by "for-profit corporations, limited liability companies, or other private entities established for business purposes"?
I'm sure they'll get right on it.
The sad thing is that I have zero doubts that businesses will continue to donate to these craven imbeciles, which makes one wonder who the greater idiot really is.
Lame. I'd like libertarians to explain just how they propose to separate cronyism from capitalism if all forms of bribery are considered constitutionally protected speech.
Money in politics is the core of our government's dysfunction. Distracting from this by bringing up newspapers (which are specifically protected under 1A) indicates the lack of seriousness libertarians have on this issue.
Most days it's hard to find daylight between what libertarians advocate and oligarchy. If money is speech then wealthy interests are definitely more equal than others.
It's getting harder and harder to tell the spoof "Tony" from the real one. Assuming there ever WAS a real one.
There wasn't.
Money in politics Government is the core of our government's dysfunction.
Dysfunction is the natural state of Government. It's the amount of power that the people give to the Government that exacerbates the situation. Attempts to limit influence are futile. In fact, they're contradictory to the idea of a Republic. You're supposed to influence elected representatives. The concept of undue influence is subjective at best, and blatantly misleading at worst, because it typically means that you have more influence than I have. I want you to have less, really because I want more.
I really, really want to understand this. More money equals more influence, right? I think we can all agree on this. So... the richer will always have more influence over government than the poorer, and then it follows that the richer will model the laws to ensure they retain the money, and therefore, the power.
The libertarian solution is to keep government tiny and basically powerless. But it seems to me something will always rise up to fill the vacuum... and it will be those with the most money, and therefore the most power. And then you're back to the same thing, over and over, an endless cycle. How do you stop it? Do you say nobody has any power over anybody else? Except obviously you can't enforce that, because it's not true, because some have more money than others, and thus more power, and so then they become the de facto government. Where does it end?
Remember, in an alternative universe somewhere, today is Thursday.
How? It's called boycott of corp. that support candidates and officials you don't support. Why do you think you've never seen signs in Target saying "Vote for Mr. X" or signs at Whole Foods saying "Vote Libertarian?"
I agree with this. But how do we do this when said corporations hide their donations via SuperPACs?
By stripping the politicians of power. Your preferred method--giving the politicians MORE power--will only make the problem worse.
The only reason anybody gets offered a big bribe is that they can do a big favor.
You seem to think that the politicians would all be paragons of virtue if only we could keep those evil rich people away from them. Good luck with that.
Huh? Everyone has an equal right to spend their resources as they see fit. That's what equality under the law means.
And who exactly what Citizens United bribing with "Hillary the movie"? Or do you think that is is OK to stifle legitimate political speech because you think that campaign donations are bribes?
Perhaps, grasshopper, you can meditate on how to square this:
Money in politics is the core of our government's dysfunction.
With this:
Money and power will always find each other.
When you can snatch the Kruggerrand from my hand, you will have achieved enlightenment.
"Money and power will always find each other" suggests that a plutocracy is the natural state of governance, doesn't it?
...Which is why you favor a small government, because government will always be controlled by the rich? Or am I totally off-base there?
If you're looking at it from the plutocracy angle, 'we' favor a small government because the plutocrats can hurt you less.
all forms of bribery are considered constitutionally protected speech
Let us know when that happens, strawman.
As far as I'm concerned, the chief problem is a lack of representation. With 660,000 people per "representative", and the first-past-the-post system, the vast majority of Americans have no effective representation. These vast numbers also prevent the candidate from actually meeting the people he "represents", meaning that vast sums of money are required for any candidate to be competitive - and those funds come with strings attached.
I would suggest that we replace the present system with one of personal representation, in which each individual can choose the representative they actually want to represent them. The representatives would then cast a number of votes equal to the number of their constituents. To keep the process manageable and useful, there would upper and lower limits to how many constituents a representative could have, and a minimum number of votes necessary to sponsor legislation.
Have you considered that corporations KNOW when money will generate a return? Let's assume a libertarian government where congress only meets to debate the definitions of words as technology improves. Now: What can a corporation get by paying one of these people $100,000 of "swag"? A photo-op? A headline with an interview?
Now look at what we have today. $100,000 gets you top-page in the stack of contractors for pork barrel project X, generating millions for the company, which taxpayers end up sucking up the bill for.
1A aside, there's your answer... Wealthy interests... interested in WHAT?
Had a hilarious conversation on omegle last night. This guy is English.
Me: So did you vote in the election?
Him: Yeah, for Labour
Me: Why?
Him: Well I don't have a lot of money, they look out for people without money.
Me: Do you have a lot of money now?
Him: No
Me: So after ten years of Labour being in charge they hadn't gotten around to making you rich? Why did you vote for them again
Him: Because they care about people with less money.
Me: Yeah you said that already.
Me: So you support them because they care, even if things don't get any better?
tony blair is labour & a neocon cats-meow.
Oooh! Burn!
Kinda like the oligarchs supporting the rich hating democrats.
No, that's different because the Democrats help keep the oligarchs (the cronies) rich. It's all about the very rich and the poor working together to fleece the working class.
From the Volokh link, another link:
sanders.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/S.J.Res..pdf
Bernie Sanders, Shitheel Extraordinaire.
Shit... linkfail. Just hit it from the Volokh piece.
This is a total partisan hack job. Alcee Hastings used to be a federal judge, then got impeached for bribery. After he did his time the people of Florida elected him to congress.
and pray tell, to which other august bodies could he corruptly aspire ?
He could go to prison, stOOOpid.
Or "should".
/sarcasim
it tries moar harder
If you're looking for "august bodies", prison has plenty of 'em.
Well, "bodies", anyway. The kind that rape other bodies in the showers.
Which is what Hastings deserves.
So, again, we see this plot only works because the supporting characters are morons.
Sanders offers a load of shit on the HuffPo:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....o&ir=Yahoo
Of course, he brings up Citizens United, which - and always remember this fact - was ONLY bitched about because of a movie critical of Hillary Clinton.
Fucktards is fucktards, and always will be. Sanders is fuctardy as hell.
Speaking of fucktards, slog through the comments on the HuffPo piece above. The term "epic" doesn't begin to convey.
dat sum epic FIFY right theres
Figures you're a Sanders fan, stOOOpid.
Progressives butt clinching their panties over Citizen's United was the most telling sign of the totalitarian strain that underlines the whole of their thought processes. It's a strange dynamic they subject the rest of us to that can only lead me to conclude that the only thing between us and a national gulag is their propensity for the sin of corruption through crony capitalism is even greater than their virtuous ambition for total control.
Team Red has their own Future Enslavement of America plans, too. Might as well be bipartisan about it.
But, yeah, they both suck.
The GOP has no enslavement plans. That's why they're the Stupid Party. They just blunder along, ineffectually attempting to block whatever statist crap the Dems shovel. Then when they fail, they defend yesterday's statist overreach as today's great American institution.
The Dems have the plan, that's why they're the Evil Party. The Republicans wait ten years or so and then they defend whatever new program or department the Dems created. It happened with the New Deal, it happened with the Great Society, it will happen with Obamacare.
You know I was talking with a Republican friend and he asked why I stopped voting for them. I told him "Nothing ever changes. If they could go one year where the budget stays the same as it did last year, I'd vote for them" to which he went all "they did the best they could" and of course the great old "not voting is voting for Obama".
Gotta disagree. Both Teams have their shares of "we're just waiting for shit to get bad enough to declare martial law" fucktards.
Wait! the Democrats are the evil party and the Republicans are the stupid party? I thought it was the other way around.
Of course, it's hard to keep track when both parties are infinitely evil and stupid.
This is quite a difference from 10 years ago when the Reds were accusing the Blues of not having a plan, except "don't do whatever the reds want", or "do whatever the reds want, but do it better".
Of course, we knew politics were going downhill in '08 when the best candidates anyone could field were a half-term senator and community organizer, or a senior citizen who spent over 5 years in a tiger trap.
Bonus laffs - here's what Sanders calls his latest offering of ferret shit:
Saving American Democracy Amendment
?
Oh, man... that's a good one.
To save democracy we must destroy it.
Oh, the SAD amendment.
Works for me.
It's the Saving The Underrepresented People's Independence Democratically amendment.
I prefer the For Universal Caring and Kindess amendment.
I would use that as a .sig, if this site offered such. Well done, sir.
More stoopid:
http://thinkprogress.org/speci.....-politics/
KHAAAAAAAAAAAAN!
Newspapers are not people!!
No, but I've heard that Soylent Green is.
Ladies and germs, I give you the legitimate press.
Operation Fast and Furious, which started in 2009, allowed illegally purchased firearms to be taken from gun stores in Arizona across the Mexican border to drug cartels. The intent of the operation was to monitor the flow of weapons to their ultimate destination.
No need to mention that the ATF instructed dealers to make those illegal sales against their better judgement. That would just cloud the narrative.
In some cases, over the dealers' objections, no less.
The left loves nothing so much as the rush it gets from passing a law against its perceived enemies, or in favor of some group it supports. Never mind that this may have catastrophic effects on them.
The net effect of this amendment would be to auction speech to the highest bidder. Also, there is nothing in the law preventing a supermajority in Congress from setting campaign spending by all opposition to zero.
The thing I find disgusting is that this censors absolutely everyone, unless the government explicitly says that institution is allowed to spend money on elections. The Stranger, a typically ultra-liberal Seattle magazine (from the same district as one of this amendment's co-sponsors!), would no longer be able to freely endorse candidates or measures to legalize marijuana, since they're an LLC and are explicitly named as being barred from expenditures. Tumblr or Google wouldn't be able to recommend that their users oppose the Stop Online Piracy Act.
The whole thing is pretty awful.
I am one of the admitted lefties I've seen bashed all over in the comments here, but I want to have an honest debate that doesn't devolve into a bunch of name-calling and labels. God knows I've been guilty of both plenty of times. So, to that end, I have a few questions here.
1. If a corporation (or union, or any legally defined group of persons acting as a collective) spends X amount of dollars to support a particular issue or political candidate, does every person working for that corporation get to vote on how the money was spent? Obviously not, in most cases. So the money spent does not actually reflect the views of the entire group, but rather the subset that chose how the money was spent. Isn't this valuing the speech of those decision-makers above everybody elses in the company? If not, why not?
2. Several comments I've read here have pointed out that if people disagree with the causes/politicians/whatever that a corporation supports, they are free to "vote with their wallets". But if these same corporations actively hide their donations through SuperPACs, how do we do that?
3. If money is a form of speech, and some people have more money than others (which, contrary to what you might believe, I am absolutely supportive of), doesn't this mean that some people have the de facto right to more speech, and therefore influence, than others? How is it that this doesn't boil down to a plutocracy?
I am seriously not trying to troll here; this publication is called "Reason" and I want reasonable answers to these questions, because so far I haven't been able to find them. I want to question my convictions, logically. Thank you very much.
1. The money of that organization is spent according to how those who control that organization wish; who actually controls it is determined by its bylaws, which are publicly known. It appears that you are arguing that, say, employees of Wal-Mart don't get to vote on how the corporation spends its money, so how is that fair? Well, employees are essentially contracting with the organization; they knew and understood that when they agreed to provide labor in return for a certain wage, they would not have ultimate control over the corporation; rather, the shareholders do. Now, there's something (in my opinion) to be said about the failure of many non-institutional shareholders to vote their shares and actually voice their opinions on the potential (mis)management of the company, and I fully encourage more shareholder participation. It's their company! They should take charge.
2. . "The [SuperPACs] must disclose their donors..."
3. The right to free speech is not the right to have your opinions projected worldwide. Nobody has that "right," although some have the resources to make it happen. The right to free speech means nobody can stop you from saying what you want. I think it's important to note that Citizens United did not decided that "money is a form of speech." Hard money contributions (really the only monetary contributions) are still as restricted as before. It is so-called "soft money," that is, publicizing one's views about a candidate, that is considered speech.
Practically speaking, it seems to me (and I think many libertarians) that regulations attempting to level the ability of people to project their speech actually encourages plutocracy, since it is only the well-connected and wealthy who can get around that restriction (newspaper editorial boards, for instance, retain their right to say as they please, but a socially-conscious activist is now restricted).
You brought up lots of good points, hope that helps you understand where some of us are coming from.
Money *must* include freedom of speech, and vice-versa.
Look, Questioning, it's like this:
Either we have a system where everyone with an axe to grind, gets free coverage/advertising for their candidates/causes, or we pay for it.
This is one reason I'm against public financing of candidates; that, is a grand scheme to shitcan all non-R/D candidates and, likely, all "fringe" R/D candidates.
It won't work. It sounds like a grand, egalitarian scheme, but it will not work. Period.
I see where you're coming from. Obviously there's no way to grant free and equal coverage to every single potential candidate out there.
Thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for. I understand point 1 a lot more clearly now.
In regards to the SuperPACs, isn't it true that most (if not all of them) set up 501(c)4 organizations in order to hide their donors? So, in effect, I can choose not to donate to the 501(c)4 organization and vote my money that way, I guess, but that's about it. Something about that feels really shady to me, and I think to a lot of other folks.
I suppose it's not the bit about soft money that really pisses me off, but rather that it allows those with the means to spread outright libel and slander about people. I've heard people say, "Well, if a person is getting slandered, that person has the right to sue," except that (a) intentional slander/libel are notoriously tough to prove in court and (b) the way our legal system is set up, he who can hire the most expensive lawyers is going to win anyway. Or, sure, you get a correction or retraction issued, but it is done at 2:00am in 4-point font during the credits of a rerun of "Starsky and Hutch" and meanwhile the original lie has been repeated so much that it's just "common knowledge" to those who take everything they watch on TV at face value.
I guess part of it comes down to the definition of "free speech". You say it isn't the right to have your opinions projected worldwide, and I agree... but what is it? I mean, you could say that I have the right to babble to myself all I want, but if I want to say something to somebody else, I have to pay a penny per person that might hear. It seems to me that satisfies the definition of free speech you provided, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in that country. (And I'm sure you don't mean that, either -- I'm just going by the whole "letter of the law" thing to play devil's advocate.) By that definition Bush's "free speech zones" were perfectly fine, and I definitely disagree with that. I guess I just don't know where one draws the line.
I'm digressing a bit, but I hope you see where I'm coming from too. I'm glad I can have a rational discussion with somebody, since it feels like lately this whole damned country has been a hair's breadth from another civil war.
From my perspective, and I consider myself a Libertarian, when one says I am free to speak, free to assemble, free to do X, it means I can do X until the borders of the rights of others. These are negative liberties, or liberties which do not require others to do anything for me. I may speak. Others may or may not listen. But if you try to forcibly shut my mouth, you're interefering with my self-ownership, and have infringed on my rights. The right to be heard would be a positive liberty, i.e. if the government stipulated I get a stipend of 500 to print newsletters about what I feel. That requires the tax-supported stipend.
I don't have anything to add to what other posters here have said better, but I just wanted to say that I appreciate those on the left who are actually interested in rational debate. Despite the widespread belief on the left that they have a stranglehold on rational discourse, I haven't seen any sort of hold on rationality from the left as a whole. There are individual exceptions, of course, for which I am thankful.
"I think it's important to note that Citizens United did not decided that "money is a form of speech."
What Citizen's United actually decided can be articulated as that speech is not a form of money. It is the campaign finance reformers who argue that speech is money and therefore subject to regulation and censorship.
Impeached former-federal judge Alcee Hastings, who was thrown off the bench for bribery and perjury...
Quite a busy guy. One wonders how he finds the time for stuff like this, what with all the other things going on in his life.
Forbes has a superb obliteration of this... http://www.forbes.com/sites/warrenmey.....ur-rights/
I'd just like to comment on the sheer theater-of-the-absurd futility of Congress trying to pass a law to overturn the Supreme Court's interpretation of the Constitution. That's not something that can actually be done under the Constitution. It's called "judicial" review for a reason. It's not like Marbury v. Madison is some obscure case. If the new law is contrary to Citizens United, the new law loses! It's called "precedent." Again, another basic legal concept apparently beyond the comprehension of a former federal judge.
Actually, the 11th and 16th Amendments are amendments that overturn Supreme Court Decisions. That is the ONLY way to overturn the decisions.
You do raise an interesting point. Would all precedent stemming from that case be invalid? This would give the clerks at the Supreme Court a shitload of work to do, sifting through reams of cases to see what was no longer valid law. One can see the possibility that, in addition to being Fascistic and tyrannical, this law might actually 'break' the 1st Amendment in a way.
the 13tha nd 14th amendments overturn Blatimore and Dread Scott.
What?! Nothing about flag burning?!
Of course the real trick to enforcing the constitution that secures free speech by tying the hands of government is not to give government the power to silence corporations. Ban Multinational Corporations like we did with the East India Trading company.
It's not little mom and pop corporate business that are destroying the government and using it as a feeding trough it's the Giant Multinationals exporting our money and jobs.
This is a b.s article. I just read the bill and it states that freedom of the press will not be limited. what the bill says is that corporations like koch industries can no longer be considered a person and can no longer donate money to candidates. in other words no money to our politicians which mean corporations can no longer affect policy. here is the actual bill
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/.....H.J.RES.90 notice article 2.
Section 2. Such corporate and other private entities established under law are subject to regulation by the people through the legislative process so long as such regulations are consistent with the powers of Congress and the States and do not limit the freedom of the press.
this is a b.s. article this article is against the bill and wants to lie to get peole against it because it means less influence on our leaders by corporations.