Reason Morning Links: TSA Offers Buyouts, Republicans Oppose Extending Payroll Tax Cut, Orange County D.A. Protects the Identities of Kelly Thomas' Killers

• Facing a budget crunch, the TSA wants to offer buyouts to 3,000 administrators. 
• In an impressive about-face, congressional Republicans say extending the payroll tax cut "adds needlessly to the nation's budget deficit."
• The CIA wants to take a black marker to an FBI agent's account of 9/11. 
• Citing death threats, the Orange County D.A. is refusing to release the names of the Fullerton police officers who beat Kelly Thomas into a life-ending coma. 
• Cartel gunmen in Monterrey, once Mexico's safest city, burned 53 people alive in a casino yesterday. 
• On reforming the witness ID system: "Of 273 convictions that have been overturned because DNA showed authorities had the wrong person, eyewitnesses had pointed to the wrong person 75 percent of the time." 
• DOJ raids Gibson Guitars. Again. 

New at Reason.tv: "Romney Edges Perry in New Reason-Rupe Poll"

Comments

[sarcasmic]

Then there was the time Geronimo jumped out of an airplane and yelled, "MEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!"

[O2]

was the plane in the air?

[sarcasmic]

It must be a bitch wiping two sphincters.

[O2]

my GF does her own perv

[Opie]

Gunmen stormed a crowded casino in northern Mexico on Thursday and ignited a fire that trapped patrons inside, killing at least 53 people in what the nation's president called an "aberrant act of terror."

Libertarians blame America.

[Mr. FIFY]

"Liberals blame America"

FIFY'd.

[Gusto]

"my GF does her own perv"

You're missing a great opportunity.

[Montani Semper Liberi]

Citing death threats, the Orange County D.A. is refusing to release the names of the Fullerton police officers who beat Kelly Thomas into a life-ending coma.

The Friends for Fullerton's Future blog already outed five of the six.

[wareagle]

you don't suppose the DA would do likewise had six people beaten a cop into a coma, do you?

[Brett L]

News from the future: Social networking may kill undercover policing.

"Mick Keelty, a former Australian Federal Police (AFP) commissioner, told the audience at Security 2011 in Sydney that because of the convergence of a number of technologies including biometrics, undercover policing may be 'impossible' in the future."

[Technology serves heirarchy]

News from the future: Social networking may kill the need for undercover policing.

But leave it to techworld to put a happy face on technology.

Social networking is nothing more than an intelligence gathering tool. Anybody who has a few good real friends in real life doesn't use it, or at least gets off after realizing the lonely narcissism.

[Fist of Etiquette]

NOT TRUE. Despite having my picture plastered prominently all over Facebook and Myspace and Twitter, I was able to successfully infiltrate a criminal gang of Luddites. They had no clue.

[Ned Ludd was right!]

NED LUDD WAS RIGHT!

The machine IS the enemy.

Smash it without mercy!

Don't tell me technology is neutral. Every day I wander this city, and every day machines flash lights trying to tell me what to do. Huge tarmac pathways cross my way, upon which gigantic, speeding metal machines move, machines capable of killing me if I cross their path and already slowly suffocating me with their toxic fumes which fill the air.

WHY SHOULD I TOLERATE THIS INSANITY?

NED LUDD WAS RIGHT!

The machine is the enemy.

SMASH IT WITHOUT MERCY!

Around me stand tall buildings, -- ugly monstrosities of steel and glass and concrete, overpowering in their hugeness and sterility. I dream of them as ruins being eaten by a forest. But for now, these structures -- the products of machines -- house other machines. Machines on which the lies by which society defines my life -- and the lives of everyone -- are recorded, and which, with electronic blips and flashes, can transmute the lies and so control our lives.

I WANT TO SMASH THE LIES!

NED LUDD WAS RIGHT!

The machine is the enemy.

SMASH IT WITHOUT MERCY!!

And all of this did not appear from nowhere. The roads, the cars, the traffic lights, the skyscrapers, the computers could not exist if, every day, the lives of millions were not eaten up by the factories. Machines control their daily activity, determining their movements, eating up their time, to produce more machines. Their only respite comes when the machines which control them break down -- or when they break them down. Then for a moment, they are not machines. Don't tell me technology is neutral -- I'm not blind enough to buy that one!

NED LUDD WAS RIGHT!

The machine is the enemy.

SMASH IT WITHOUT MERCY!!

Can't you see? Each little machine -- each car, each computer, each factory, each worker -- is not a separate entity, a mere individual tool. NO! They are all cogs in one vast machine, the machine of social reproduction -- and if we let them be, we too are cogs, the gears that manufacture society. Will you be a mere cog, a gear, a tool of social order?

TO HELL WITH THE SOCIAL ORDER AND ITS PHYSICAL BODY: TECHNOLOGY!

NED LUDD WAS RIGHT!

THE MACHINE IS THE ENEMY!

SMASH IT TO POWDER WITHOUT A GRAIN OF MERCY!!!!!

And from the dust, a billion flowers bloom.

[Pip]

Herc could drop you dead with nothing more than eye-contact.

[Chupacabra]

Herc: The Most Interesting Troll in the World.

[sloopyinca]

"I don't usually troll. But when I do, I prefer to troll Reason."

[Almanian]

"Stay [EMPIRE], my friend."

[Kristen]

He doesn't always use brackets....oh wait.

[db]

Ned Ludd never existed as a real person.

[wareagle]

yet, people still list having heard the name on their resumes.

[Aqua Buddha]

CERN Update: Cosmic Ray Data will Force Climate Models to be 'Substantially Revised'
...The first results from the lab's CLOUD ("Cosmics Leaving OUtdoor Droplets") experiment published in Nature today confirm that cosmic rays spur the formation of clouds through ion-induced nucleation. Current thinking posits that half of the Earth's clouds are formed through nucleation. The paper is entitled Role of sulphuric acid, ammonia and galactic cosmic rays in atmospheric aerosol nucleation.

This has significant implications for climate science because water vapour and clouds play a large role in determining global temperatures. Tiny changes in overall cloud cover can result in relatively large temperature changes.

Unsurprisingly, it's a politically sensitive topic, as it provides support for a "heliocentric" rather than "anthropogenic" approach to climate change: the sun plays a large role in modulating the quantity of cosmic rays reaching the upper atmosphere of the Earth.

CERN's director-general Rolf-Dieter Heuer warned his scientists "to present the results clearly but not interpret them". Readers can judge whether CLOUD's lead physicist Jasper Kirkby has followed his boss's warning.

"Ion-induced nucleation will manifest itself as a steady production of new particles that is difficult to isolate in atmospheric observations because of other sources of variability but is nevertheless taking place and could be quite large when averaged globally over the troposphere."...

..."[I]t is clear that the treatment of aerosol formation in climate models will need to be substantially revised, since all models assume that nucleation is caused by these vapours [sulphuric acid and ammonia] and water alone...

[Brett L]

Damn. I shoulda put this one up first. Well played watery demigod.

[Bee Tagger]

Citizens/Wife: What was that sound?
Climate Scientists/Husband: Don't worry about it, it's just the science/house settling.

[Tonio]

Schweet!

[Maxxx]

Wanna bet that the reality based community doesn't rush to embrace this science.

[Jersey Patriot]

Before the creation scientists wet themselves, here's a chart of recent cosmic ray radiation:

http://www.realclimate.org/images/cr2011a.pdf (1 page)

The cycle is remarkably stable, both through the cool(er) period in the 60s & 70s and the rapid warming since. This is fascinating stuff, but there's no wriggling out of AGW.

Article with Explanation: The CERN/CLOUD Results are Interesting...

[shorter Jersey Patriot]

The science is SETTLED!

[Sinic]

the TSA wants to offer buyouts to 3,000 administrators.

They collected 3,000 unnecessary administrators in less than 10 years? I wish I was surprised.

[Drake]

Beat me to it.

How the F did they get that bloated in less than a decade? Government sucks.

[Goverment sucks?]

Agriculture creates government. ~Richard Manning, Against the Grain, p. 73

Therefore, more properly and with a fuller understanding:

Agricultural Civilization sucks.

Ag-Polis-State = one indivisible system.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

This guy actually followed through on leaving the civilzation you so deplore:

http://thehiberniatimes.com/20.....ch-doctor/

OTOH, you're so afraid of getting eaten by the Ghost and the Darkness you've settled for white-knighting Noble Savagery on the internet.

[Drake]

I'm ready to hunt and gather if that's what it to live free.

[TrickyVic]

""How the F did they get that bloated in less than a decade?""

Largely due to the success of their "feel up a kid, receive a promotion" program.

[bosty]

Yeah, this. TSA Motto: "Too many Chiefs, too many Indians"

[sloopyinca]

I know a place that has one Indian too many. And I'm looking at it right now.

[wareagle]

the admins will now be free to return to their previous jobs in airport eateries.

[Mainer]

or airport toilets

[Bucky]

^thiiiiiiiiiiiisssssssssssssss!^

[Brett L]

Climate models need to be revised. See, this is science. It takes no economic policy position, and studied and underlying (now proven wrong) assumption about the way cloud formation works.

"'[I]t is clear that the treatment of aerosol formation in climate models will need to be substantially revised, since all models assume that nucleation is caused by these vapours [sulphuric acid and ammonia] and water alone.'"

[O2]

imagine the gall updating MODELS to include the latest info. effing science - how do it work?

[Brett L]

Right. That's science. Using unproven models to make world-scale choices, not so much. DHMO appears to be the chief offender in updated coimate models. Let's ban it.

[O2]

yea i can see using say, a dartboard, instead of models. do you even know what "proven" means? hint - its geometric

[Old Mexican]

Re: Double Asshole,

The hoax is unraveling, OO.

[Almanian]

"Do you even know what 'proven' means"

It's clear you don't, Urine. Fuck, you bring the stupid hard.

[DEM]

THE SCIENCE IS FUCKING SETTLED!

[Devil Inchoate]

We don't need no stinkin' experiments.

[Tim]

TSA buyout? Who's gonna touch me now?

[RobSmalls]

The lowest bidder.

[Warty]

the Fullerton police officers who beat Kelly Thomas into a life-ending coma.

This is better, but I still don't understand why you don't just say "to death".

[Tim]

Oh, so you're an english major now?

[Warty]

Why water it down?

[Drake]

Now the coma killed him. Damn comas.

[Warty]

I pushed him out of the window, causing him to be killed by the ground.

[Greg]

I believe that the proper way to write this in a police report is that the two of you walked towards the window, and then you heard a SPLAT!

[Mainer]

A splat was heard

passive voice, always.

[Ice Nine]

Mistakes were made.

[R C NEA]

Vacations were taken.

[Almanian]

paid administrative leaves were given

[Bucky]

in Philly they call it a buyout...

[db]

Forces were equal to masses times accelerations.

[Inspector Renault]

I'm filling out the paperwork now. I'm trying to decide whether he committed suicide, or was shot while trying to escape.

[wareagle]

elsewhere in CA, a woman with bound hands and feet was ruled to have hanged herself, so anything is possible. Suicide is getting so much more creative.

[Opie]

This is why you are not a journalist.

[govco]

Fullerton was simply a demonstration of democracy in action.

[Libertarian Cops in Action]

Cops must be unleashed, and allowed to administer instant punishment...unleash the cops to clear the streets of bums and vagrants. Where will they go? Who cares? Hopefully, they will disappear... ~Murray Rothbard

Would you say they disappeared that bum Kelly Thomas?

[Old Mexican]

Re: White Imbecile,

Cops must be unleashed, and allowed to administer instant punishment...unleash the cops to clear the streets of bums and vagrants. Where will they go? Who cares? Hopefully, they will disappear... ~Murray Rothbard

Would you say they disappeared that bum Kelly Thomas?

The White Imbecile, quoting from a tongue-in-cheel parody piece by Rothbard, as if Murray had meant those words.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/ir/Ch5.html

[Libertarian Cops in Action]

Marx was joking around too, right? Old Mexican, you're as intellectually bankrupt as a Leninist.

Rothbard's words were no tongue-in-cheel parody piece.

He was quite honestly displaying just how far libertarians propertarians will go to protect their privileged entitlement to private property.

[Almanian]

I took a shit in a [priv]vy once

[O2]

given all the choices, how'd u figure which shit to take from the privvy?

[Old Mexican]

Re: White Imbecile,

Marx was joking around too, right?

Who the fuck cares, White Imbecile? You're the one who quoted Rothbard completely out of context, not even being brave enough - you fucking coward - to at least LINK from where you quote.

Fuck you, White Imbecile.

[White Indian]

Go on, my playful padawan; your impish repetition helps reinforce my etymological lesson for everyone.

Priv-ation
Priv-ate
Priv-ilege

And may it not cause you too much cognitive dissonance to comprehend that most of libertarian propertarian dogma is contradictory to the Non-Aggression Principle.

[Anonymous Coward]

And now, the Real Murray Rothbard, with 33% more context!

A RIGHT-WING POPULIST PROGRAM

A right-wing populist program, then, must concentrate on dismantling the crucial existing areas of State and elite rule, and on liberating the average American from the most flagrant and oppressive features of that rule. In short:

4. Take Back the Streets: Crush Criminals. And by this I mean, of course, not "white collar criminals" or "inside traders" but violent street criminals ? robbers, muggers, rapists, murderers. Cops must be unleashed, and allowed to administer instant punishment, subject of course to liability when they are in error.

5. Take Back the Streets: Get Rid of the Bums. Again: unleash the cops to clear the streets of bums and vagrants. Where will they go? Who cares? Hopefully, they will disappear, that is, move from the ranks of the petted and cosseted bum class to the ranks of the productive members of society.

[sarcasmic]

This dude's got talent!

[Warty]

He has a champion's beard, too.

[tarran]

Honestly, if I had been arrested for driving erratically whilst intoxicated, drinking and getting a blowjob, I'd put on the most satisfied smirk I could muster for the camera. An epic crime deserves an epic mug-shot

[JW]

He is my new hero.

[JW]

What I love the most, is that she didn't stop just because of some pesky traffic stop:

"When officers flagged him down and walked up to the 2006 Ford they found a female passenger with her head in his lap."

[Warty]

That's how you know you've found a keeper.

She's ugly, but she loves me

[Bucky]

please don't eat the big white mints...

[sarcasmic]

Nice. I didn't notice that.

[Benjamin Lecrone]

World's Most Interesting Man -
"I don't often drink beer, but when I do...I drink one with a good head."

[Colonel_Angus]

His name is George Howard. He should be on talk shows, and beer commercials.

[O2]

August 26, 2011 / Brooklyn news
Get rollin'! Unicycle Fest returns on Sept.

Dozens of unicyclists will take to the Brooklyn Bridge next month ? but no, the circus isn't in town.

The curious sight is courtesy of the second annual New York City Unicyclist Festival, a weekend-long celebration of the one-wheel wonder.

It all kicks off on Sept. 2 with a ride across the Brooklyn Bridge, where most of the riders will then skillfully ride the 13 miles down to Coney Island.

http://www.brooklynpaper.com/s.....26_bk.html

[Old Mexican]

The curious sight is courtesy of the second annual New York City Unicyclist Festival, a weekend-long celebration of the one-wheel wonder.

The unicycle festival is one of the coolest events of the year! The guys get together afterwards and kick the shit out of them geeky unicyclists and then hit the bar. It's an unbroken tradition!

[Colonel_Angus]

"Dozens..."

Whopping.

[Kristen]

Fucking hipsters.

[John]

From the Gibson article

The Federal Department of Justice in Washington, D.C. has suggested that the use of wood from India that is not finished by Indian workers is illegal, not because of U.S. law, but because it is the Justice Department's interpretation of a law in India. (If the same wood from the same tree was finished by Indian workers, the material would be legal.) This action was taken without the support and consent of the government in India.

So we are now using SWAT teams to enforce Indian law.

[Enjoy Every Sandwich]

I wonder if Gibson did something to piss the administration off. Did they fail to donate enough money to the re-election of the Anointed One?

[John]

I wonder that too.

[Michael]

I was wondering if perhaps a certain competitor snitched them out.

[Fist of Etiquette]

It's that rock music the kids listen to. It's subversive. Cut it off at the source.

[Warty]

I seem to remember reading about some guy who's in prison in America for violating Honduran fishing laws or something like that. So there's precedent, I guess.

[Jerry]

Is there some treaty law?

[tarran]

It's worse than that.

Government prosecutors, not satisfied even with 35 tons of lobster, filed criminal charges against McNab. The also charged three American businesspeople who frequently purchased and distributed lobster tails from McNab. All charges against McNab and most charges against the others were predicated on the three Honduran regulations, applied through the Lacey Act. No charges were ever brought against the defendants in Honduras. The alleged Lacey Act violations served primarily to trigger more serious charges. If importing the lobster in bags instead of boxes was illegal, prosecutors reasoned, then planning to import it was criminal conspiracy, the actual importation was smuggling, and payments became felony money laundering.
At the District Court's foreign law hearing, McNab presented copious evidence showing that the Honduran regulations at issue were invalid. The size restriction had never been signed by the President of Honduras, an absolute requirement for such a regulation under Honduran law. The Attorney General of Honduras supplied an opinion, confirming other testimony, that because the size restriction was not signed it could never have had the force of law.
McNab presented other witnesses, including a former Honduran Minister of Justice, who testified that the egg harvesting regulation was never intended to apply to animals that happened to bear eggs when caught. The prohibition against harvesting or destroying eggs for profit was meant to do just that, to prevent the harvesting of eggs themselves (turtle eggs in particular).
Government prosecutors somehow convinced the court to ignore McNab's extensive evidence and instead accept the testimony of a single, mid-level Honduran bureaucrat, Liliana Paz. For reasons that remain unexplained, the "Secretary-General" of the Honduran Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock ? an official whose primary duty is to be "an instrument of communication" and who has no expertise or authority to render legal opinions ? boldly testified that all the regulations were valid and had the force of law.

It's crap like this that causes me to have such contempt for people who enforce the law. It's one thing when a nutjob starts barking out destructive, insane orders. It's another when a person who should know better chooses to obey them.

[dunphy]

you can't expect highly trained LEOs to use common sense! we have to do what our superiors tell us. just following orders is what we do.

[Tim]

"I live in the Managerial Age, in a world of "Admin." The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" that Dickens loved to paint. It is not done even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the offices of a thoroughly nasty business concern."

CS. Lewis
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/C._S._Lewis

[Maxxx]

WTF is going on when the Feds enforce foreign laws that aren't enforced in the countries that created those laws?

Seriously WTF?

[Mad Maxxxx]

Win The For?

[robc]

They were after someone...for some reason.

Cant let pesky things like "facts" get in the way of "justice".

[Chupacabra]

GLOBAL VILLAGE, BITCHES!

[In other words...]

It's crap like this that causes me to have such contempt for people who enforce the law. It's one thing when a nutjob starts barking out destructive, insane orders. It's another when a person who should know better chooses to obey them.

It's anecdotes like this that cause you to make broad generalizations about people.

[Mike Laursen]

There's a very good chance someone at a guitar factory is a marijuana user, maybe even a dealer.

[Michael]

I love how blatantly this administration talks out of both sides of its mouth. We've got Obama himself going on tour to relentlessly tout his mighty job creation or salvation schemes and denounce the companies that are "shipping jobs overseas" all the while Eric Holder is sending his goons to harass what few actual manufacturers are left operating on U.S. soil.

[Bee Tagger]

DOJ Raids Gibson Guitars looking for Illegal Wood

They're into child porn?

[Warty]

I burned out my eyes

[Casey Anthony]

Citing death threats, the Orange County D.A. is refusing to release the names of the Fullerton police officers who beat Kelly Thomas into a life-ending coma.

Yeah, that seems fair.

[O2]

Life on Mars? Fossil find shows it's possible By Kate Kelland

LONDON (Reuters) - Scientists have found Earth's oldest fossils in Australia and say their microscopic discovery is convincing evidence that cells and bacteria were able to thrive in an oxygen-free world more than 3.4 billion years ago.

The finding suggests early life was sulphur-based -- living off and metabolizing sulphur rather than oxygen for energy -- and supports the idea that similar life forms could exist on other planets where oxygen levels are low or non-existent.

http://www.reuters.com/article.....TE20110821

[fundie know-nothing]

3.4 BILLION? must be like dog-years or something

[Pip]

meh

[Chupacabra]

Activity in O2's brain? Doubtful, say scientists.

[John]

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/320567.php

North Carolina Governor Declares Every Concealed Carry Permit in eastern NC Invalid Due to Hurricane Irene

[Warty]

Uh-huh. I think I'd go ahead and ignore that if I were there.

[John]

No power, lowered police presence, lots of people evacuated, why would anyone think they need a gun under those circumstances? I saw the governor on TV this morning. She seems to be a typical idiot soccer mom who got into politics. So this is not surprising.

[Warty]

14-288.7. Transporting dangerous weapon or substance during emergency; possessing off premises; exceptions.
(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, it is unlawful for any person to transport or possess off his own premises any dangerous weapon or substance in any area:

(1) In which a declared state of emergency exists; or

(2) Within the immediate vicinity of which a riot is occurring.

(b) This section does not apply to persons exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14-269 with respect to any activities lawfully engaged in while carrying out their duties.

(c) Any person who violates any provision of this section is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

A riot seems like a good time to have a concealed pistol, too.

[John]

Yup. I guess it just means your neighborhood can't mass its forces. So everyone has to shoot the rioters from their own yard.

[tarran]

Hey man, if people were allolwed to protect themselves in times of distress, they might stop accepting the monopoly.

[John]

There was a great article I linked to the other day about the right of self defense and the social contract. It didn't get much notice. But it is really astute. Take a look at it if you have the time.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/g.....f-liberty/

The money quote

It all comes down to this: Is there an inalienable right to self-defense? If there is, each man has indisputable, inestimable value, value that he may rightly preserve even if the life of another man is forfeit. A man may kill another in lawful self-defense even if the policy preferences of the state would prefer his death. If a right to self-defense actually exists, it is in a very real sense the highest law of the land and all lesser laws must pay it deference. It fundamentally defines the social contract, the nature of the relationship between man and the state.

But if there is no such inalienable right, the entire nature of the social contract is changed. Each man's worth is measured solely by his utility to the state, and as such the value of his life rides a roller coaster not unlike the stock market: dependent not only upon the preferences of the party in power but upon the whims of its political leaders and the permanent bureaucratic class. The proof of this analysis surrounds us.

[Warty]

Good piece.

[robc]

Each man's worth is measured solely by his utility to the state

Altogether now...FUCK UTILITARIANISM!

[mad libertarian guy]

Fuck that.

If there's a riot in my neighborhood (highly unlikely), my pistol (and various shotguns/rifles) won't be concealed. Everyone in seeing distance will know that if they come close to that crazy, Viking-bearded libertarian guy, they're gettin' shot the fuck up.

[R C Dean]

True dat.

In my case, it will be the dapper gent with a tophat, smoking a cigar on the veranda, with a selection of firearms laid out on table within easy reach.

[Art-P.O.G.]

I assume you will also be wearing kid gloves.

[Clich? Bandit]

What no monocle?

(Dominant eye only guys).

[R C Dean]

Of course no monocle, CB. Interferes with the sight picture. Duh.

I will have my sword cane, though.

[R C Dean]

Only after 5:00, Art-P.O.G. But I'm sure you knew that.

[Libertarians the most violent]

Libertarians propertarians got as itchy of fingers as Police.

And for the same reason.

Serving and protecting the elite rich who own the carved-up face of Mother Earth as privation property.

[tarran]

SHOUT LOUDER; I CAN'T HEAR YOU!

[mad libertarian guy]

Yawn

[You the most stupid]

I here that. It's that damn private property. That's why those living on the communally held tribal lands of our great Indian reservations are doing so well. Mother Earth must love the res.

[Brett L]

I have a friend who lives just outside Tallahassee with about 5 acres of land. He likes to shoot his guns at random intervals in his backyard (safely at targets backed by a berm) on the theory that the local ne'erdowells will pass him by. Seems to work.

[sarcasmic]

Let's see. As soon as someone might have a need to defend themselves, self defense becomes illegal.
That makes sense.

[Destrudo]

Here in Portland (ME) there is a city ordinance that declares carrying or transporting weapons after dark illegal (including both real guns, air guns, and fake ones like airsoft). CCW permit? Doesn't matter. Trunk of your car, unloaded? Illegal.

[sarcasmic]

Just another reason why I don't miss living in the city.

[CE]

Yes, remember the authorities going door to door in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, handcuffing people and searching their homes for guns, violating a good portion of the Bill of Rights in the process.

[Brandon]

They should've slept in the houses, then they could have covered fully half of it.

[Winded]

More gun fear...London Olympic organizers and city officials decide guns can be scary even when shot at inanimate targets:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/.....iveaway.do

I'm thinking within 16 years shooting sports at the Olympics will have gone the way of Tug-of-War and Baseball.

[Winded]

Whoops...Reason may have prevailed (drink?)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/spo.....ckets.html

[O2]

No such thing as a free lunch? South Koreans beg to differ. By Donald Kirk, Correspondent / August 25, 2011

Seoul, South Korea
A majority of voters in this capital city of nearly 11 million people have made it absolutely clear: They want free lunches for all students from kindergarten through high school.

By refusing to go to the polls Wednesday, voters defeated Seoul Mayor Oh Se-hoon's referendum to limit free lunches to poor schoolchildren. The result is a blow to South Korea's conservative leadership.

The result is that South Korea's conservative leadership faces its most severe challenge since President Lee Myun-bak's landslide victory in December 1997 after a decade of liberal rule.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World.....-to-differ

[gaijin]

They want free lunches...

Sounds like the children were voting

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Seoul has now become Detroit, except in Detroit the feral dogs aren't eaten.

[O2]

To urban hunter, next meal is scampering by
Detroit retiree, 69, supplements his income by living off the land.
Charlie LeDuff
The Detroit News

Detroit - When selecting the best raccoon carcass for the special holiday roast, both the connoisseur and the curious should remember this simple guideline: Look for the paw.

"The paw is old school," says Glemie Dean Beasley, a Detroit raccoon hunter and meat salesman. "It lets the customers know it's not a cat or dog."

Beasley, a 69-year-old retired truck driver who modestly refers to himself as the Coon Man, supplements his Social Security check with the sale of raccoon carcasses that go for as much $12 and can serve up to four. The pelts, too, are good for coats and hats and fetch up to $10 a hide.

While economic times are tough across Michigan as its people slog through a difficult and protracted deindustrialization, Beasley remains upbeat.

Where one man sees a vacant lot, Beasley sees a buffet.

Hunting is prohibited within Detroit city limits and Beasley insists he does not do so. Still, he says that life in the city has gone so retrograde that he could easily feed himself with the wildlife in his backyard, which abuts an old cement factory.

He procures the coons with the help of the hound dogs who chase the animal up a tree, where Beasley harvests them with a .22 caliber rifle. A true outdoorsman, Beasley refuses to disclose his hunting grounds.

"This city is going back to the wild," he says. "That's bad for people but that's good for me. I can catch wild rabbit and pheasant and coon in my backyard."

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/200.....z1W9BDkvQF

[sarcasmic]

Stop Farting!

[Bee Tagger]

avoid discussing politics, religion or with women as it could escalate into a major disagreement

Fixed.

[John]

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news.....8348.html?

College adds sexual orientation to list of affirmative action categories. How do they exactly tell if the person claiming to be gay really is gay?

[sarcasmic]

Why would someone pretend to be gay?

[John]

If it got you into a college you normally couldn't get into or got you a big fat grant or aid package, why not?

[sarcasmic]

Because to maintain the charade you would have to pass on all the hot drunk and so deliciously fuckable college chicks.
Hello?

[John]

What if you are some geeky guy who can't score with them? Also, chicks love to "convert" gay guys. Few things are a bigger ego rush for them than to think "I am so hot even a gay guy couldn't resist me". You could totally work that if you were smart. Just because you sleep with the odd chick doesn't mean you are not gay.

[NoVAHockey]

just say you're bi-curious or something like that and that your parents have discouraged you from finding out who you really are.

[John]

Exactly. "I am sexually confused and now the University wants to punish me by taking away my scholarship".

[sarcasmic]

What do you do when Tony grabs your ass?

Any rational person would bloody his face. But if you're pretending to be gay you'd have to go with it.

[John]

Of course you could punch him in the face. That is sexual harassment. Just because you are gay doesn't give Tony the right to think you are easy.

[sarcasmic]

Just because you are gay doesn't give Tony the right to think you are easy.

You don't know many gays do you.
They're not very discriminate.

[mad libertarian guy]

I disagree.

As a gay friend put it to me once, "Why does straight porn have all ugly guys with small dicks? Gay porn is filled with nothing but delicious men with big dicks!"

There is no demographic which takes better care of their looks, on average, than gay men.

[sarcasmic]

There is no demographic which takes better care of their looks, on average, than gay men.

Spend an evening at a gay bar and then tell me that.
From what I have seen gay men are some of the most disgusting hygienically challenged creatures on the planet.
It's no wonder they resort to getting blow jobs from men. No self respecting woman would come near them.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

There is no demographic which takes better care of their looks, on average, than gay men.

A photo spread of the Folsom Street Fair cured me pretty damn quick of that illusion. Maybe in places like Manhattan gay men tend to take good care of themselves, but that's in line with the upper-class society that they belong to and whose sensibilities they share.

Also LOL at a gay man wondering why straight porn has ugly guys.

[Auric Demonocles]

Re mad Libertarian guy at 9:52:

A good story has an everyman as the protagonist.

[John]

I do and yes you are right. Many of them are quite disgusting.

[sarcasmic]

I do and yes you are right. Many of them are quite disgusting.

So you see why claiming sexual harassment when Tony grabs your crotch would be a tip off that you're not gay?

[Pip]

"What do you do when Tony grabs your ass?"

I tell him he can't to do that while MNG is still rimming his ass.

[robc]

Dammit...once again 42 year old me wonders why 18 year old me was so stupid.

Brilliant, John.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Just because you sleep with the odd chick doesn't mean you are not gay.

The plea of the college kid to his parents at Bizarro Thanksgiving dinner.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Also, chicks love to "convert" gay guys. Few things are a bigger ego rush for them than to think "I am so hot even a gay guy couldn't resist me".

The trend among women these days seems to be to brag about "my gay friend" as if he's a Barbie doll or My Little Pony figure that they collected when they were little girls. They don't really care about the person all that much, they're just status-grasping among their own little pigeon circle.

[Art-P.O.G.]

I wonder if a chick thinking you're gay makes it even harder to get out of the friendzone.

[Tony]

You live free or die types sure can be judgmental.

[Art-P.O.G.]

You live free or die hard

FIFY

[DesigNate]

Yippie Kai Yay motherfucker!

[nobody]

I appreciate the tone of your newsletter and would like to receive copies of it on a regular basis.

[Michael]

Bullshit. I'll bet that some guys already act gay just to score with the fag hags. I take it that you've never seen a drunk chick making out with an obviously flaming guy at a dance club?

[sarcasmic]

In my experience fag hags don't put out.
That's why they hang around with fags.
So they can feel safe from having to give up the goods.

[John]

That and they love to bitch and feel sorry for themselves because all the guys they like are gay.

[sarcasmic]

That and they love to bitch and feel sorry for themselves because all the guys they like are gay they are female.

ftfy

[Michael]

I'd bet if you started acting even just a little bit gay your experience would change dramatically.

[Marginally attractive female]

Don't forget that when I make out with a girl at the club, you all suddenly think I'm smokin' hot, tee-hee-heee! SUCKAS!!

[Ice Nine]

I'll bet that some guys already act gay just to score with the fag hags.

Somewhere, Clark Gable is weeping.

[Art-P.O.G.]

I'd actually guess he probably doesn't give a damn.

[Clich? Bandit]

frankly

[Old Mexican]

Re: sarcasmic,

Because to maintain the charade you would have to pass on all the hot drunk and so deliciously fuckable college chicks.

Even if you find it amazing and fantastic, S, some dudes really do go to college to get an education. So they can pretend to be gay in order to take advantage of the government's largess and then have all those sympathetic hot chicks constantly trying to make him straight.

I mean, haven't you seen Carrington? Or Kick Ass?

[sarcasmic]

No, I have not seen those works of fiction where hot chicks try to set homos straight.
I have seen many the fag hag who hangs around homos because they are safe, not because she wants to "cure" them.

[Old Mexican]

Tongue in cheek, S.

[Michael]

I have seen many the fag hag who hangs around homos because they are safe, not because she wants to "cure" them.

The desire for safety doesn't preclude a desire for sex and is exactly what makes it so easy. They fall into the trap of believing that sexuality is an either/or proposition with no shades of gray in between; their sense of safety originates from the foolhardy belief that their gay male friends are unquestionably 100% gay. It's a massive vulnerability just waiting to be exploited by the first guy willing to put on a ruse.

[JW]

Because to maintain the charade you would have to pass on all the hot drunk and so deliciously fuckable college chicks.

Deliciously fuckable chicks don't hang out with straight guys all night.

[Art-P.O.G.]

JW speaks the truth.

Or I was doing something wrong.

[Brandon]

Please. Nobody's that gay.

[Mike Laursen]

I see a sit-com in this.

[John]

So do I. It would just be an updated version of Three's Company set on a college campus.

[Gibby]

"Why would someone pretend to be gay?"

Because it's a great way to get chicks. They see it as a challenge.

[Mr. Roper]

To live with two hot chicks in a rent controlled apartment?

[Brett L]

Makes it easier for profs to profile their classes for opportunities. "So if you want an 'A' you'll have to get with me and that cute little lesbian over there at the same time."

[tarran]

In Turkey, gays aren't allowed in the army. They have conscription.

So, if you claim to be gay, they make you provide photographic proof such as pictures of you having sex.

[Art-P.O.G.]

Wow...I guess if you're 'out of the closet' to the military, you'd better be 'out of the closet' to the rest of the world.

Because something tells me those photos would get out.

[Kristen]

I wonder if Bulent Ersoy had to provide pics in flagrante?

[Anonymous Coward]

Turkish military: "If you're really gay, suck this guy's dick while we take pictures."

Makes sense.

[John]

http://online.wsj.com/article/.....43952.html

Peggy Noonan, the few times Rick Perry has ever told the truth in his life (like about the Fed printing money before the election being unpatriotic) are "gaffes.

[Tony]

He seemed to be saying that it would be treasonous for the Fed to try to improve the economy before the election. As if the GOP is entitled to a bad economy to run on.

[John]

Yes Tony a public official enacting a short term "fix" that he knows will make things worse in the long term for the sake of saving your buddy's political ass, if not "treason" by a strict definition of the term, is at least a massive betrayal of the public trust and treason in spirit if not act.

But, I doubt you understand that since you would ass fuck the entire country if doing that meant keeping your team in office.

[Tony]

Any FED action would have minor effects. And Perry is an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about.

What are his plans to help the economy again?

[John]

Sure Tony, endlessly printing money and creating false bubbles would only have "minor effects".

[Red Rocks Rockin]

If Bernanke thought the economy was going to improve, he wouldn't be running ZIRP still.

[Sparky]

Good or bad?

http://www.foxnews.com/health/.....latestnews

Seems to me like Dr. Mental wants to control your mind. Oh and he told you so...

[John]

But what the members of B4U-Act fail to realize is that there are some impulses worth repressing from consciousness?like the impulse to rape children. There are even thoughts worth repressing?like fantasies of having sex with children. When a society stigmatizes certain actions and thoughts?thereby driving them out of mainstream consciousness and into the shadows?that isn't always a bad thing.

And this guy is a psychiatrist? He honestly thinks that if we just pretend such things don't exist people will stop thinking such thought? What a fucking moron. People have been attracted to children sexually for all of history. Many civilizations accepted it as part of life. Such things have always gone on and always will. Not that we should encourage it or accept it. But the idea that we can just repress certain thoughts from consciousness is completely stupid.

[A Purple Elephant]

Don't think about *me*!

[Inspector Renault]

The whole discipline of psychotherapy is bullshit - one step removed from charlatanism. Yes, there are some (very few) research psychologists who do ethical, useful and valid science but when you get away from that small group the bullshit factor increases quickly.

Really, they're just mouthpieces for prevailing social norms.

[Tonio]

Sorry, meant to post that as me.

[John]

They really are. Look no further than their treatment of homosexuality. For years homosexuality was considered a mental illness. Now it is not. What changed besides society's willingness to accept it?

[Cy Kyatree]

You homophobic sicko!

[Herb Maxwell]

Facing a budget crunch, the TSA wants to offer buyouts to 3,000 administrators.

The terrorists win yet again.

[Voter Fraud is a Myth, Right?]

5 Wright County felons accused of voting illegally

http://www.startribune.com/loc.....00303.html

[O2]

the research i read for the last 3 ohio elections were roughly these:
~15 million votes (3 elections), ~100/per alleged vote fraud,
~80 were improper addys involving a move,
~10-12 were widows incorrectly signing their dead husbands signature line,
~the remaining were criminal fraud (voting twice etc) which were prosecuted.
>so in 3 elections, ~30 fraud votes in 15 MILLION total votes.
>even the wingnutz backed-off spending money to correct this.

[Sparky]

Look into the mind of the enemy.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion.....rn-parent/

I'm sure Mrs. Wacker's kids just love her to death.

[John]

None of that stuff is that bad taken alone. But put together, it does give the oppression of the typical shrewish schoolmarm. Forget her kids, what do you think her husband thinks of her? That guy probably hasn't gotten laid in years.

[The Other Kevin]

Just in: Hurricane barreling toward the East coast, threatening untold millions in damage. Paul Krugman gets raging boner.

[gaijin]

Paul Krugman gets raging boner.

In related news, noone was stimulated.

[John]

Broken window porn is the best porn.

[Porn starlet]

"Ooh, you must be the glazier. Excuse me, I was just in the shower, and I hate to tell you this, but I don't have any money. Maybe we can, I don't know, work something out?"

[T]

I saw this one. It was awfully derivative of Pizza Delivery Pros 4.

[Art-P.O.G.]

The one where the guy knocks the baseball through the neighbor-lady's window was a little different.

[Old Mexican]

Paul Krugman gets raging boner.

His cats immediately searched for a place to hide...

[Mike M.]

This is the guy who, when New Jersey had some of the worst blizzards in the history of the state last winter, was whining that Christie didn't have every road cleared within a few hours. I bet he does the exact same thing with Irene.

[tarran]

I'm sure Paul Krugman is seeing raging stimulus opportunities in numerous directions.

[Tim]

Stimulus for toxic Chinese drywall and plywood made from Panda habitat.

[Sparky]

Once again, all we need is a really good natural disaster to get the ball rolling.

http://www.realclearpolitics.c....._jobs.html

[Mike Laursen]

I think you gotta give the guy a pass for including that last sentence in his answer.

[Old Mexican]

Mike Barnicle, of MSNBC's "Morning Joe": We don't have much time left here but is there potentially a rather dark, downside to the storm and that after the storm passed, after it's over there might be employment in reconstruction and things like that?

Gov. Beverly Perdue (D-NC): "I hadn't thought of that but obviously there will be some employment as people rebuild and prepare. This morning they said there's at least 27,000 or 28,000 structures that have an opportunity to be hit by the storm. So, we'll know by Saturday or Sunday. But all of us want jobs, but this isn't a way to get them quite frankly."

Nooo, ya think???

[Tim]

Maybe we should nuke ourselves?

[flye]

Why do you want to take jobs away from the thousands of people who would be paid a good wage to do the destruction by hand?

[gaijin]

...there's at least 27,000 or 28,000 structures that have an opportunity to be hit...

You know what else needs an opportunity to be hit?

[Ice Nine]

It has already been announced that Washington, DC is in the path of the storm.

[Old Mexican]

In an impressive about-face, congressional Republicans say extending the payroll tax cut "adds needlessly to the nation's budget deficit."

Pelosi: "I knew they weren't being serious about all that budget cutting crap! Happy times are here again!!!"

[John]

Hey, if they don't raise taxes someone in Washington might lose their jobs. This is serious.

[Tim]

"Tax the Rich, feed the poor.
till there are no
poor no more. "

Tax the poor, feed the rich,
One day you'll be, Obama's Bitch.

[John]

It is actually "till there are no rich no more". Alvin Lee inadvertently told the truth about socialism there.

[Tim]

you are correct.

[sarcasmic]

Yup.
The rich don't pay their fair share.
We know this because they are rich.
If they paid their fair share then they wouldn't be rich.
We will know when the rich have paid their fair share when there are no more rich people.

[Clinton]

the rich paid their fair share when i was the man. plus the economy didnt suck & we had a budget surplus. some raw deal

[Art-P.O.G.]

?????

[Random Internet Douche]

Yeah, thanks to my dot com. Too bad that bubble couldn't last forever.

[anomdebus]

Morglbl update

Shouldn't have left out a couple non-east coast dates yesterday.. Tonight in Louisville (KY), tomorrow Chicago, Sunday Madison (WI).. schedule

I apologize if I appear to be a promoter, but their last concert was cancelled when they were turned away at the border, ostensibly because they weren't notable enough.

[robc]

Was curious, have never heard of the club they are playing in tonight. I now know where it is...not that Im going or anything.

[Sparky]

Man outraged by boobs on parade.

http://wlos.com/shared/newsroo.....5238.shtml

[Matrix]

As far back as I could remember, I always wanted to see boobs. That includes when I was 5 years old. Boobies are fantastic. So, I don't think it should ever be considered "child abuse".

[P Brooks]

Citing death threats, the Orange County D.A. is refusing to release the names of the Fullerton police officers who beat Kelly Thomas into a life-ending coma.

OFFICER SAFETY is our first and only responsibility.

[John]

And of course is some poor bastard was suspected of killing a child or some other dastardly deed that produced death threats, the DA would think nothing of publishing the guy's home address and letting the local news camp out on his front lawn. But cops must be protected.

[Tim]

Praetorian Guard effect.

[John]

Contrast this with the LA police's treatment of the guy they initially arrested for the Dodger Stadium beating. That guy was completely innocent. But they put his name and picture all over the media, held him in jail for weeks if not a couple of months and made him the most hated man in Southern California. But OC won't even release the names of the cops. Fucking bastards.

[robc]

Contrast with the treatment of Richard Jewell, who was a fucking national hero.

Atlanta really should put up a statue of Jewell in the olympic park.

[John]

Don't even get me started on Jewell. The fucking media sucking the FBI's cock and going with their "every white man is a terrorist" bullshit. Poor guy living with mother trying to make a living. And then the media makes a national joke out of it. "See he lives with his mom and he is poor, what a freak". These kinds of things make me glad there is a hell because it is going to be awfully crowded down there.

[Maxine Waters]

Crowded with Tea Partiers!

[John]

http://hotair.com/archives/201.....rd-to-1-0/

Here is your weekly release on Friday so hopefully no one will notice economic bad news.

[Mike M.]

Shocking and stunning.

[Tony]

The payroll tax thing is really quite stunning. Now we have definitive proof that Republicans don't care about the deficit, they just care about funneling money upward. They actually believe that the problem in this country is that the rich are oppressed and the poor are getting too much loot. The only way you can think that is if you never have to interact with poor people in your life.

[John]

Tiresome troll is tiresome.

[Tony]

Why don't you defend a tax hike? Your masters have deemed it OK. It's just normal working people.

[John]

So Republicans don't care about the deficit because they are now willing to raise taxes? Yesterday in Tony land the only way to "get a seat at the adult table" was to be willing to raise taxes. Now not so much. That is about as tiresome as it gets Tony.

[Tony]

They're quite clearly not serious because they defend keeping the upper rates low on the grounds that it's not a significant amount. Yet to match that amount you'd have to take half of the income of all people in the bottom 50%.

You'd have to put half the country into poverty in order to keep rates on the rich low and be budget neutral.

We'll never get anywhere if you don't put aside your worship of money and start thinking in terms of numbers.

[Proprietrist]

Tony's actually right on this one. Republicans are being strangely contradictory - if the payroll tax cut is on the chopping block because of the deficit, why shouldn't the Bush tax breaks be allowed to sunset naturally? If anything, the payroll tax cut is far more stimulating to the economy, because working class people are more likely to turn around and spend that 2% in short order. Wealthy people aren't going to shut down their businesses because of a 3% tax hike. The inflation to print the money to pay the deficit is costing them more than the taxes would.

[ranting ranter]

payroll taxes pay for the out-of-control entitlements. Directly. As in that's what they are specifically for. When entitlements are going up double digits a year, either they must be scrapped altogether (preferably) or their contribution level needs to be brought in line with the payouts, just like any pension system that hopes to remain solvent.

Income taxes are redistributionist bullshit. It is every liberal's wet dream to use the class-warfare game of income taxes to pay for the entitlements. Then we will have finally given up the last vestiges of the "retirement insurance" story and be out of the closet as a welfare state. With greedy old people that live to vote and vote for a living, matched up directly against the smaller minority of evil rich people.

[O2]

absolute stunning gop hypocrisy sheilding the wealthy [JOBZ] creators who create no [JOBZ] while throwing working folks under the tax bus. ez campaign issue so force a vote

[Destrudo]

You keep saying this crap about wealthy job creators. Do you understand that nobody owes anybody a job? Rich people have no obligation to provide work. You are responsible for providing for yourself in this life. Suck it up, pussy.

[O2]

except that the gop justified extending boosch's tax cuts for the wealthy by (falsely) claiming the wealthy create [JOBZ]. pls try to keep up

[Almanian]

Fuck you're stupid - I've given up encouraging you to keep up.

[Somalian Road Corporation]

How many jobs have you had that have been given by poor people?

[O2]

apparently as many as the wealthy since no [JOBZ] are being created

[WTF]

Although oo's job is likely sitting on a wall in his own feces drooling on himself.

[CE]

When someone asked Ron Paul if he was concerned that the poorest 50 percent of Americans pay no income tax, he said, "no, because then we're halfway to where we want to be."

[Mike M.]

U.N. mission in Abuja, Nigeria bombed by terrorists, at least 18 dead.

I bet it was those damn Quakers again.

[Tony]

To preempt the standard talking points:

You'd have to take half of the wealth from everyone in the bottom 50% (those who 'pay no income taxes') in order to match simply rescinding the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy.

That's because the bottom 50% own about 2% of the wealth. That's why they pay no income taxes. They don't have enough income to tax by any humane measure at all.

[John]

And worse still, they might not support all those free goodies and jobs programs for Democratic interests if they had to pay even a small share of them.

Everyone should have a stake in the country Tony. That means everyone should pay some taxes even if it is just a small amount.

[ToeKnee]

But . . . but . . . cat food and old people dying in the streets if people were expected to take care of themselves, even just a little bit.

[Mike M.]

This. I'm supposed to get all bent out of shape because they're expected to pay a whopping 6% tax rate when they're going to get far more benefits in Social Security and Medicare than they put into the system?

It's hard to believe that the Tony Krugnuts of the world can possibly be serious.

[Tony]

It's hard to believe anyone would suggest that the first place we should look for for revenue is those who can't afford a tax hike, while leaving those to whom all of the wealth has been going completely alone. It's absurd, not based on any economic theory. Plain simple wealth worship. They are wealthy because they are good, and good because they are wealthy, and we shouldn't tax good people.

[Mike M.]

Personally I want everyone's taxes to be as low as they possibly can and don't have a problem with the payroll tax holiday, but I agree with John that everyone should have some stake in the country.

Guys like you aren't really interested in maximizing revenue; you're only interested in fomenting your pathetic class warfare for political purposes. Your goal is try to get society to the point where there are more tax eaters than taxpayers, because you think it will solidify your power. You'd love it if more than half the country was totally dependent on the rest. You don't have me fooled for a moment.

[Tony]

Actually, my goal is a society in which most people earn enough to have skin in the game. Instead things are engineered so that all growth is translated to wealth creation at the very top.

Everyone does pay taxes. Our tax code is barely progressive when all taxes are counted. It's just that so many people don't make enough to have an income tax. That's not due to liberal policies, which tend to distribute wealth downward, but the opposite.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

It's just that so many people don't make enough to have an income tax.

So you're in favor of eliminating the EIC, then?

[Loki]

How does raising taxes on those who make more allow those who make less to have "more skin in the game?" The latter aren't neccessarily earning any more just because you take more money away from the former.

Or am I missing something here?

[Kant feel Pietzsche]

He never said the skin they had in the game had to be THEIR skin, now did he?

Learning Tonish is hard, but it comes to you after awhile.

[Brandon]

Where do you get that liberal policies tend to distribute wealth downward? From the stimulus that went to the top 1%, or the other stimulus that went to the top Obama donors? The most equal distribution of wealth will occur from a free market, which can create and expand wealth. Government can only redistribute that which has already been created, after destroying a portion of it for overhead.

[Tony]

You guys are the ones who want to exempt certain people from responsibility. The wealthy live as stateless masters of themselves in your scenario. Not only should a poor economy punish the poor and working class (as is natural), but we should pay off the large deficits that come with a poor economy by burdening them even more. Even though they aren't at fault for any of it. The rich meanwhile are asked nothing. It makes no sense.

You have to start thinking of actual burden on people's lives and stop thinking in terms of a fallacious number-based "fairness." The GOP's goals are clear and stated: they hate the income tax and want a flat tax (they ignore all the other taxes). You don't have to agree with everything they say. They aren't libertarians.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

You have to start thinking of actual burden on people's lives and stop thinking in terms of a fallacious number-based "fairness."

Sorry, Tony--the math doesn't give a shit what you think is appropriate or not.

[Kreel Sarloo]

Tony, you'd be more convincing if you hadn't spent your life supporting all the old New Deal and Great Society policies that created all the to-big-too-fail institurions and then stood by while your chosen man just carried on with his predecessor's policies (that you never actually opposed, either, you just complained about him being Booooossssshhhh, or something) of just shovelling subsidies to them.

For the workers, of course.

[Tony]

Call me crazy for supporting civilization over kleptocracy. I just believe that economies should service the welfare of human beings, rather than human beings servicing the welfare of privileged elites like you guys.

[sarcasmic]

I just believe that economies should service the welfare of human beings

That is exactly what the free market does.
For every accumulation of wealth through trade there is an equal amount of wealth distributed through society.
The more accumulations of wealth there are, the richer the rest of the society is.

That's why you want to allow individuals to get rich. When they get rich everyone gets richer.

When someone gets rich off producing some widget, that means everyone who purchased the widget is richer for having it.

The more people getting rich off selling widgets there are, the wealthier the society is for having more widgets.

[T]

Sorry, but you supported Obama, so you're down with kleptocracy as long as the right thieves are getting paid.

[Kreel Sarloo]

What you support is kleptocracy.

You supported all of the policies that have gone on to create this set up with too-big-to-fail institutiosn that jusy ry for government subsidies until the government is bleeding deficits.

You're too stupid to know that you're the agent in the service of rent-seeking plutocrats. You probably believe their politician cronies when they say "I'm not giving a gajillion dollars worth of subsidies in borrowed money to GE to make my buddy Jeff Immelt and his cronies fabulously wealthy, I'm doing for the workers...yeah... that's it....the workers...and jobs....and green energy...oh and high speed rail, yeah that's it."

Bullshitters like Immelt and Warren Buffet can talk about raising taxes on the wealthy because they already have theirs, and continue to get more thanks to the government policies of taxation and regulation keeping their competitors down, not to mention the outright subsidies that are handed to them.

[sarcasmic]

What you support is kleptocracy.

That is correct.
Tony supports a system that robs from the successful and gives to losers like him.

[sarcasmic]

Wealth is not income.

Wealth is not money.

Wealth is not something that can be magically distributed to the masses.

How do you distribute a fancy home?
How do you distribute a fancy car?
How do you distribute a factory?
How do you distribute a home entertainment system?

Wealth is accumulated goods. It is not liquid. It is not money. It is not income.

How do you make a wealthy person with no income pay taxes?
Perhaps you make them sell some of their wealth. OK. Now someone else has that fancy home or car. Someone else can display that wealth.

It just doesn't work when you think about it rationally.
Of course that means it will always make sense to you because you are not rational.

[TrickyVic]

""How do you distribute a fancy home?
How do you distribute a fancy car?
How do you distribute a factory?
How do you distribute a home entertainment system?""

A mandate!!

Flying cars for all!!

[ranting ranter]

we do have wealth taxes in the form of property taxes on land & houses. And there's a reason that's the only wealth taxed in most places, because if you start taking the rest of people's stuff, they just get the fuck up and leave with it.

The only times people like Tony succeed in redistribution the real wealth in when they do it really fast, i.e. revolution style. Need to kill the rich dudes before they can flee or bribe people with it. But you never get them all, some always do successfully bribe their way to the revolutionaries' good sides. and these will be your new government. Well done suckers.

[Tony]

Everyone does pay taxes.

[sarcasmic]

This comment shows how some people, willfully in some cases, do not understand the difference between wealth, income, and money.
All they understand is an emotion called "envy", and they want to institutionalize this irrational emotion into government sponsored theft so they can feel better about their own personal inadequacies.
Pathetic.

[sarcasmic]

Sorry John, this was supposed to be a reply to the pathetic homo.

[Tony]

Hey look everyone sarcasmic is definitely not gay so everyone should stop wondering.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

The standard defense mechanism of gays and their white knights is to claim their critics are secretly gay themselves.

It's such a predictable, narcissistic response that you can set your watch to it.

[Tony]

As predictable as the interval between someone going out of his way to seem homophobic and me having my head in his crotch after a few drinks?

[Red Rocks Rockin]

As predictable as the interval between someone going out of his way to seem homophobic and me having my head in his crotch after a few drinks?

Your personal fantasies are none of our business.

[Pip]

So you're saying you're a rapist.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

You'd have to take half of the wealth from everyone in the bottom 50% (those who 'pay no income taxes') in order to match simply rescinding the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy.

And if we took every penny of wealth from "the rich," we could pay off the budget deficit--for one year.

[Tony]

I've explained why "it's not enough" is a ridiculous argument for doing nothing.

I presume you won't be going after the pittance spent on non-entitlement non-defense government programs for deficit reduction.

[Kreel Sarloo]

Tony, there's a hitload of non-entitlement non-defense government programs I'd go after even if we weren't running the hugest deficit ever.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

I've explained why "it's not enough" is a ridiculous argument for doing nothing.

You're begging the question that "doing something" will solve the problem.

I presume you won't be going after the pittance spent on non-entitlement non-defense government programs for deficit reduction.

I've repeatedly pointed out that any serious cuts are going to have to start with the Big Five, including defense. So you can put your silly strawman away.

We're spending more on the government in both inflation-adjusted total dollars and on a per capita basis than we were even 10 years ago, to say nothing of fifty years ago when the economy was more robust. Today's per capita spending alone equals what the per capita share of debt was in 1960. Yet you seem to believe the fallacious notion that we're not spending enough.

Perhaps your real problem is that, like the DoD, you can't grasp the plans-reality mismatch and ignore the fact that the more complex a system becomes, the more difficult it becomes to maintain.

[Tony]

The reason government spending/GDP is up is because of the weak economy. It doesn't appear that libertarians have any ideas that cope with economic realities. It's just cut now, cut always. Because, as evidenced by your lack of concern about both economic reality and the well-being of humans, you think the solution to every problem is the same: less government. But the higher spending now is a symptom, not a cause.

[Kreel Sarloo]

Oh, yes this "weak economy" exists in a vacuum, doesn't it.

It doesn't have anything to do with the ethos that has dominated the ruling class for the last eighty years or so, with bipartisan support I might add.

That ethos is that "we're" "supporting civilization over kleptocracy" or some such twaddle about looking after the less fortunate when what they are doing, in fact, is shovelling truckloads of manufactured money at their rent seeking cronies.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

The reason government spending/GDP is up is because of the weak economy.

Bullshit. Government spending has been going up on a regular, consistent basis for decades, in both raw and inflation-adjusted terms, regardless of the state of the economy.

This is easily verifiable with a little googling, but you're just too damn lazy to do so.

It doesn't appear that libertarians have any ideas that cope with economic realities.

Bullshit--you're denying verifiable historical data in the face of your own confirmation biases.

It's just cut now, cut always. Because, as evidenced by your lack of concern about both economic reality and the well-being of humans, you think the solution to every problem is the same: less government.

What a stupid little appeal to emotion you've constructed here. You're the last person that should be lecturing anyone about ignoring economic realities given your deliberate ignorance of basic math and multi-decade spending trends.

But the higher spending now is a symptom, not a cause.

A theory that doesn't fly in the face of actual spending data over the course of decades.

[Chupacabra]

You're right. The fact that we can't raise taxes enough to balance the budget is not an excuse for doing nothing.

We should slash defense spending, entitlements and eliminate the Depts of Education, Energy, etc. immediately.

Oh, that's right. You have no interest in cutting spending.

[L-Curve]

The L-Curve: A Graph of the US Income Distribution
http://www.lcurve.org/
Graphically describes and criticizes income distribution in the United States.

[Nooge]

Serious questions, Tony. I'm honestly curious. Let's say you've been made Emperor or something and can arbitrarily set income tax rates however you want. What percentage their income would you have all people making more than, say, $200,000 per year in income pay to the government? If you got your way, by how much would that amount reduce the deficit at this time?

[Enjoy Every Sandwich]

If you rescind the Bush tax cuts AND take half of the wealth from everyone in the bottom 50% you still won't have enough money to pay for your big government schemes.

[mad libertarian guy]

Facing a budget crunch, the TSA wants to offer buyouts to 3,000 administrators.

I'd gladly pay for the TSA to downsize. It's the best investment in the TSA we can make.

The agency's roughly 51,000 unionized airport security officers, as well as its air marshals and intelligence personnel, would not be eligible, the agency said.

Fuck.

We get rid of the paper pushers rather than the child molesters.

[P Brooks]

"As part of TSA's ongoing efforts to ensure staffing efficiency, TSA requested a new authority to be able to continue to utilize early retirement as needed through 2013," the agency said in a statement.

Here's an idea: just start calling "noncrucial" employees into the office and tell them to load up their family photographs and potted plants and GTFO.

[Warty]

Remember the pig in Canton who threatened to murder the guy for having a gun? A pattern develops.

[Warty]

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN PROPERTARIANS DEPRIVE US OF PRIVACY

[White Indian]

Good boy. My etymological lessons are living rent-free in your head now.

Priv-ate
Priv-ation
Priv-ilege

That's what the megaPolis's Police are all about, serving and protecting the privileged entitlement of privation property.

It's been just like this since the days of the Sumerian City-State. But you'll sit here and tell me with a straight face it's all progress from our ancestor's Non-State sociopolitical typology.

[Me]

Your BS belongs in the PRIV-y.

[Art-P.O.G.]

Gosh, who wouldn't like a Ca-PRI V-acation?

[Art-P.O.G.]

Jermaine DuPRI Vows to release another album.

[Art-P.O.G.]

POP RIVets.

[Art-P.O.G.]

Gosh, I love watching the Erebus go uP RIVer.

[Warty]

Out-fucking-standing, Art.

[Ska]

Also acceptable - Go PRIVfuck yourself. But it's not nearly as slick as Art's posts.

[Cognitive Dissonance]

Your rage I accept gently, as it is only from cognitive dissonance, as you slowly realize that most libertarian propertarian dogma is contradictory to the Non-Aggression Principle.

[Art-P.O.G.]

PhiliP RIVers.

[Art-P.O.G.]

The GaP RIVals Old Navy.

[White Indian]

Lovely, my playful padawan; impish repetition helps you learn your etymological lesson.

[Art-P.O.G.]

Well, I hate to defend the agricultural city-state, but it did give us Star Wars.

[AblueSilkworm]

It also gave us Jar Jar. Stop making his (its?) point for him. :/

[An intrigued fellow wackjob]

Interesting but I'm not quite sold. Do you have any other evidence in the form of suspiciously recurring numbers of letters or syllables?

[robc]

more than one dozen other internal affairs complaints.

But...but...after the first complaint he would have been punished and retrained.

[P Brooks]

We asked Chief Dean McKimm about why nothing has been done until now. He said until he saw the tapes, he never knew Harless had any problems.

Somebody else needs to go, too, it seems.

[Barely Suppressed Rage]

If you are the lucky owner of a 1920s Martin guitar, it may well be made, in part, of Brazilian rosewood. Cross an international border with an instrument made of that now-restricted wood, and you better have correct and complete documentation proving the age of the instrument. Otherwise, you could lose it to a zealous customs agent?not to mention face fines and prosecution.

Un-fucking-believable.

Fuck the Fourth Amendment. Fuck the Fifth Amendment. This is equivalent to being guilty until you prove your innocence. Whatever happened to requiring the government to prove an allegation that you've done something wrong? If I have an old guitar, why don't they have to show me some reason to believe it contains contraband wood?

Fuckity fuckity fuck fuck this pisses me off.

As so much does these days.

Can we get one of those "reset" buttons for our fed gov?

[Ghost Dance Reset]

White Man's Ghost Dance
Reset to past

[Almanian]

See also "bagpipes with ivory on them". I'm ready to buy a new set with "imitation" because of the same bullshit (for about the last 10 years - mostly with Canada).

"Do you have a CITES certificate?" "What?" "Is your ivory pre-treaty?" "Well, it must be, cause I got these legally in the mid-70's." "Do you have proof?" "I BOUGHT THESE IN THE 70'S - I DON'T HAVE A FUCKING RECEIPT FOR AN INSTRUMENT I'VE OWNED FOR OVER 30 YEARS!!!"

So, rather than risk having my personal property - legally obtained, basically irreplacable and quite dear to me - confiscated by the fucking Canuck Customs Nazis, I quit playing in Canadian bands a couple years ago 🙁 Their loss...

[tarran]

I fucking hate Canadian customs.

The first time I encountered them, they demanded I turn in my non existant officer's side-arm.

The second time I encountered them they didn't believe me when I said I was born in Istanbul but had been a U.S. citizen since birth. That was a fun 45 minute interrogation.

Third time, another 45 minute interrogation, this time because I was driving into Sault St Marie for the sole purpose of picking up my sister in law who had had her car totaled while visiting that fine country and needed me to come get her. In retrospect snarling "neither" when asked if I was there for business or pleasure was a bad move. 🙂

That's why I sing 'Blame Canada' with gusto whenever I can.

[P Brooks]

Fullerton police officers who beat Kelly Thomas into a life-ending coma.

Fullerton police officers who were present when the man suffered an ultimately fatal brain injury.

[P Brooks]

You guys are the ones who want to exempt certain people from responsibility.

Cite, plz

[sage]

Hey reason, something weird is happening when I try to view the hit and run main page on Android. it seems to freak out and refresh several times per second. is anyone else seeing this?

[Destrudo]

It does it to me in chrome. It's the third party scripts built into the page.

[sloopyinca]

I bet rather is.

Hahahahahahaha.

[Michael]

There's no suitable joke to introduce this with...

http://www.myfoxmemphis.com//d.....3_14692295

[Joe M]

$80,000 worth of bull semen? I'm in the wrong line of business.

[dunno]

I'd say they're underpaid...

[Mongo]

Many great photos of Libyan rebel DIY weaponry!:

http://www.theatlantic.com/inf.....ls/100086/

[Brett L]

Holy Fuck. That's like the A-Team meets Fallout. Or Libertopia. "Why yes, I would like the rocket pod option on my new Toyota Hilux."

[kbolino]

Toyota clearly has the freedom fighter market locked up. I wonder why they don't use that as a selling point?

[P Brooks]

Wealth is accumulated goods. It is not liquid. It is not money. It is not income.

And, until money actually changes hands, its true cash value is unknown.

This is what pisses me off about the "wealth taxers". People think the income tax is intrusive. Are we going to send out legions of IRS "assessors" to inventory everybody's stuff and hand them a bill?

[sarcasmic]

First it will come in the form of means testing to get people comfortable with the idea of listing all of their assets to government officials.
Then will come the wealth taxes.
And like everything else certain things will be exempt and some things taxed more than others in an effort to please cronies and engineer society.

[Ska]

Go look at Form 706 if you want to see it in action already.

[P Brooks]

Our Exhalted Leader is on the teevee, promoting .gov disaster preparedness sites. Do not attempt to think for yourself. Do not attempt to act on your own behalf.

And remember, sheeples:

DO AS YOU ARE TOLD.

[Almanian]

STOP RESISTING!

[T]

Okay, as much as I disagree with the idea of even having .gov preparedness sites, I will say this: for the most part, they give you sensible advice about disaster prep. Excepting of course, the "OBEY PROPER AUTHORITAH!" part they always throw in.

Of course, most disaster prep is really a matter of applying some common sense.

[sarcasmic]

Most of government is treating people like they have no common sense.

[People]

But, according to libertarian elitists, we have no common sense.

[Almanian]

Also, the Gibson guitar thing and CIA editing the FBI guy's book - fuck, I love living out "1984" in real life!

"And you wonder why no one takes you seriously, and NOTHING ELSE HAPPENED" - fuck all of you, I hope they get you next.

[Joe M]

Did anyone else post this yet?

Paraki isn't running for president.

[Art-P.O.G.]

What you did there, Joe M. I see it.

[Brett L]

What about Pataki?

[Joe M]

Fun follow up:

Perry isn't running for president.

[Old Mexican]

Re: White Imbecile,

Marx was joking around too, right?

Who the fuck cares, White Imbecile? You're the one who quoted Rothbard completely out of context, not even being brave enough - you fucking coward - to at least LINK from where you quote.

Fuck you, White Imbecile.