Politics Created the Border Crisis

Plus: A listener asks if libertarians are too obsessed with economic growth.

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Politics Created the Border Crisis

In this week's The Reason Roundtable, editors Matt Welch, Katherine Mangu-Ward, Nick Gillespie, and Peter Suderman weigh in on the unfolding situation along the U.S.-Mexico border and reckon with the recent deaths of three U.S. soldiers in Jordan.

01:14—Border crossing disputes at U.S.-Mexico border

19:49—U.S. soldiers killed in Jordan

29:12—Weekly Listener Question

37:39—White House halts natural gas export terminals

44:22—New Hampshire primary post-game

47:22—This week's cultural recommendations

Mentioned in this podcast:

"The Twisted Logic of Greg Abbott's Border Policy," by Fiona Harrigan

"Death in Jordan," by Robby Soave

"Texas Gov. Greg Abbott Doubles Down on Dangerous Claim That Immigration Is 'Invasion,'" by Ilya Somin

"Massive Migrant Reduction," by Liz Wolfe

"The War on Terror Zombie Army Has Assembled," by Matthew Petti

"The Killing of 3 American Troops Was an Avoidable Tragedy," by Matthew Petti

"Does Biden Need Congressional Authorization for His Strikes Against the Houthis?" by Ilya Somin

"What Javier Milei Could Teach Democrats and Republicans About Capitalism," by Veronique de Rugy

"Free Markets Are the Best and Fastest Way to Cut Greenhouse Gas Emissions," by Ronald Bailey

"Capitalism Makes You Cleaner," by Matt Welch

"Independents Hate the Trump-Biden Rematch," by Matt Welch

"Goodbye to Haley the Hawk," by Liz Wolfe

"New Hampshire Takes Us Closer to a Trump-Biden Rematch," by Christian Britschgi

Send your questions to [e-mail]. Be sure to include your social media handle and the correct pronunciation of your name.

Today's sponsors:

• The world would be a better, freer, and happier place if constitutional protections for private property were taken just a tad more seriously. That's according to our friends over at the Institute for Justice, who have just begun releasing a new season of their legal history podcast, Bound By Oath. Bound By Oath tells the story of how the Supreme Court has cleared the way for government officials to abuse property rights: to trespass on private land without a warrant, to restrict peaceful and productive uses of property, to seize and keep property without sufficient justification, and much more. Featuring interviews not only with scholars and litigators but also with the real-life people behind some of the Supreme Court's most momentous property rights decisions, the new season explores the history behind today's civil rights battles. So plug Bound By Oath into wherever you get your podcasts, and start with Episode 1.

Audio production by Ian Keyser; assistant production by Hunt Beaty.

Music: "Angeline," by The Brothers Steve

What are we consuming this week?

Katherine Mangu-Ward

• The Symposium by Plato
• Mitchell and Trask's Hedwig and the Angry Inch (The Fourth Wall) by Caridad Svich

Peter Suderman

• Steven Soderbergh's Raiders

Nick Gillespie

• Tripping on Utopia: Margaret Mead, the Cold War, and the Troubled Birth of Psychedelic Science by Benjamin Green

Matt Welch

• Happy Hippie Presents: Miley Cyrus & Melanie Safka - Look What They've Done to My Song Ma

---

Comments

[Vernon Depner]

Politics Created the Border Crisis

Well, there's also the hostile foreign powers trafficking millions of invaders to our border in order to harm us.

[Social Justice is neither]

You mean the NGO arms of Soros inc.?

[Vernon Depner]

The NGOs, the Mexican crime lords, Venezuela, China, etc....

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo]

De o rats created the border crisis. Reason’s benefactor Koch abetted this crime.

[Don't look at me!]

Politics Joe Biden Created the Border Crisis

[Longtobefree]

You only say that because his name is on all those executive orders.

[freedomwriter]

BDS? One side profits greatly from the crisis and scaring people about it. Why would they solve it when they gain so much money and so many votes from it?

[VULGAR MADMAN]

No, you mendacious half-wits, not enforcing the laws caused the border crisis.

But you don’t mind it if laws you don’t like are violated, do you?

[Don't look at me!]

I was informed that laws are just words on paper, and don’t change anything.

[VULGAR MADMAN]

Force it is then.

[sarcasmic]

Must have broken your heart to learn magic's not real.

[Don't look at me!]

Learned that lesson from the Covid days mask fiasco.

[VULGAR MADMAN]

You seem to enjoy it when trespassers are shot to death.

Why not on the border sarc?

[JesseAz]

You can't catch them all, so catch none.

/sarcasmic

[chemjeff radical individualist]

There is no price too high to pay for catching the illegals.

/Jesse

[Marshal]

There's no price too high to pay for virtue signaling.

/Jeffey

[JesseAz]

Since you won't voluntarily give charity to illegals of the world, government needed to step in to give your money to these poor people.

/jeff.

[JesseAz]

Also think yours should be...

There is no price too high for you to pay for my virtue signal.

/jeffey

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Illegals have zero benefit and cost BEELIONS of dollars. They are trash. They are vermin. There is no redeeming feature whatsoever about any of them. They should go back to their shithole countries and suffer and starve. America is for Americans and screw the refugees of the world. Let everyone else deal with that refugee shit. I'm too busy slurping right-wing cock to care at all about any of it.

/Jesse

[VULGAR MADMAN]

You really don’t want your supply of children to be disrupted do you?

[Vernon Depner]

He might be the one who paid for the kids who drowned in the river.

[VULGAR MADMAN]

Do you think he’d care much if they were dead?

[Don't look at me!]

Still would still be useful to him.

[Commenter_XY]

Tl;Dr chemjeff

I lost

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Denver Health and Denver Public Schools would like to have a word with you about the zero-cost benefits of mass migration. And that's after Abbott sending them a fraction of what Texas deals with every year, especially since Biden opened the border to anyone who wanted to walk in.

[JesseAz]

Cost free, all profit. Jobs and housing magically appear. No downside.

[Pear Satirical]

Not to mention Chicago and NYC, both of whom are trying to close their borders to iillegals. Weird that Jeff, Sarc, and Reason aren't talking about that.

[Marshal]

Illegals have zero benefit and cost BEELIONS of dollars. They are trash. They are vermin. There is no redeeming feature whatsoever about any of them. They should go back to their shithole countries and suffer and starve.>

You know, I just bet this is Jeffey's honest and best summary of others' beliefs. It explains so much.

[JesseAz]

He has to ignore all facts, evidence, and reality because. One are on his side. So he gives an emotional form of moral attack instead. A child's form of argumentation.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

For SOME of you, it absolutely is. This includes the people around here who affirmatively agree with calling them vermin, or that they are 'poisoning the blood of the nation'. This includes the people who are completely happy with sending the military to shoot unarmed women and children migrants. Go back to Friday's article on Abbott's border policy. There you will see several people agreeing to shoot unarmed migrants.

Oh but now you are probably going to bring up WHATABOUT OBAMA KIDS IN CAGES or WHATABOUT ST. ASHLI BABBITT or some other bullshit response that is just intended to deflect and distract. I don't give a fuck. I'm talking about what is going on right now. It is eminently obvious that your team is very easily emotionally manipulated by the issue of immigration, *particularly* illegal immigration (but not exclusively), in that it brings out emotions of fear and anger towards 'those people'. You don't want them here and you vote for Trump because MAGA to you means preserving the 'character of the nation' which you all believe immigrants of today stand opposed to.

When you get right down to it, the arguments with respect to immigration that deal with economics or jobs or welfare don't really matter. What really matters is that your team does not honestly sincerely believe that the immigrants of today can ever be fully genuinely "real Americans" the way you all define the term. To you, increased immigration means the destruction of America. It means replacing "real patriots" with socialist vermin. And that is why you all consistently put immigration as the top concern. It isn't really that they 'broke the law'. It is that they broke the law in their first step towards transforming America into a shithole.

So yes, that is what I think a lot of you believe.

Some of you, I'm sure, have a more rational take on the issue. But those of you that do, let the emotional crazies run loose and never rebut their more extreme awfulness.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

It is that they broke the law in their first step towards transforming America into a shithole.

LOL, mission accomplished, based on what we're seeing now.

[Marshal]

WHATABOUT ST. ASHLI BABBITT or some other bullshit response that is just intended to deflect and distract. I don’t give a fuck.

We know you don't give a fuck. That's because you pretend you have principles but in reality you're fine with anything, even killing, as long as it happens to your political enemies. Anyone who reads you long enough knows this, but it's nice of you to slip up and accidentally admit it.

The only reasons you care about immigrants are (a) since they're overwhelmingly poor and uneducated they are easily converted to Dem voters and (b) the left needs a constant and massive influx of poor to enable their propaganda that the American economy is broken.

[sarcasmic]

Oh but now you are probably going to bring up WHATABOUT OBAMA KIDS IN CAGES or WHATABOUT ST. ASHLI BABBITT or some other bullshit response that is just intended to deflect and distract.

Reductio ad Babbittum.

[sarcasmic]

We know you don’t give a fuck. That’s because you pretend you have principles but in reality you’re fine with anything, even killing, as long as it happens to your political enemies. Anyone who reads you long enough knows this, but it’s nice of you to slip up and accidentally admit it.

Now pretend like you give a fuck about Floyd rioters or immigrants. Oh, you don't because you see them as leftist political enemies. You jump up out of your rocking chair cheer when they're killed.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

The only reasons you care about immigrants are

... a bunch of bullshit words stuffed in my mouth. Go try that on an actual leftist. We know, everyone who doesn't agree with you is a 'leftist' who hates America.

[Marshal]

Now pretend like you give a fuck about Floyd rioters or immigrants. Oh, you don’t because you see them as leftist political enemies. You jump up out of your rocking chair cheer when they’re killed.

As usual sarc simply asserts what he wishes were true without makin any effort to understand reality or evaluate people's actual positions. That's why his commentary is worthless.

[Marshal]

Preening Jeffey:

chemjeff radical individualist 10 hours ago
Flag Comment Mute User
The only reasons you care about immigrants are

… a bunch of bullshit words stuffed in my mouth

The real Jeffey:

chemjeff radical individualist 1 day ago
Flag Comment Mute User
Illegals have zero benefit and cost BEELIONS of dollars. They are trash. They are vermin. There is no redeeming feature whatsoever about any of them. They should go back to their shithole countries and suffer and starve. America is for Americans and screw the refugees of the world. Let everyone else deal with that refugee shit. I’m too busy slurping right-wing cock to care at all about any of it.

This is what I love about Jeffey and sarc: they whine and bitch about shit they've done in the very same thread without a second thought or bit of concern. They prove they have no principles on literally every thread. And yet they keep acting like other people don't recognize what shitstains they are.

To borrow a quote we're condescended to by our inferiors. It's fucking hysterical these losers manage to convince themselves other people violate civil norms.

[damikesc]

"Illegals have zero benefit and cost BEELIONS of dollars. They are trash. They are vermin. There is no redeeming feature whatsoever about any of them. They should go back to their shithole countries and suffer and starve. America is for Americans and screw the refugees of the world. Let everyone else deal with that refugee shit. I’m too busy slurping right-wing cock to care at all about any of it.

/Jesse"

Shouldn't you cite Chicago, NYC, Denver, Martha's Vineyard et al?

They've made that explicit argument quite loudly.

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo]

Open borders at any cost

/Pedo Jeffy

[VULGAR MADMAN]

[insert meme of cyclist sticking stick into the spokes of his wheel, and blaming someone else here.{

[Diane Reynolds (Paul. they/them)]

Politics Created the Border Crisis

*looks around*

Well... yes... y...yes that would correct. Borders, being the constructs of politics, and their defense, recognition and controls are all under the rubric of "politics".

So, I guess now that the hard lifting has been done, let's move on to the easier part: What and whose politics created the crisis?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Root cause? It would have to be the quota system for immigration. That is why there is up to a 30-year wait time to immigrate from Mexico. Because the quota is so low.

Also, the continual manipulation of the legal immigration system to benefit various factions - H1B visas for this group, T5 visas for that group, etc., which reveals the myth that there is anything like "a line" for legal immigration. There are multiple lines, and the ones with the shortest wait times are the ones with politically connected friends. It creates the very clear impression that the legal immigration system is not a neutral, impartial process, but a rigged system to be manipulated.

[Vernon Depner]

It shouldn't be neutral and impartial. It should select for those immigrants most likely to be of benefit to our country.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

It wasn't an issue before Hart-Celler passed.

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo]

You democrats are masters of manipulating the system for sinister purposes ends.

[Pear Satirical]

The root cause of illegal immigration is America being affluent and successful compared to the shithole countries they're fleeing from. Therefore, we have three options if you want to solve the root cause.

1. Wipe the shithole countries off the face of the earth. If they no longer exist no one can immigrate from them.
2. Make America a shithole country so no one wants to come. (Biden is doing his best on that front.)
3. Conquer the shithole countries and make so they can be made as great and as prosperous as America.

Take your pick.

[TJJ2000]

"quota is so low" lol....
It amazes me you can preach such BS. The USA has more immigrants than any other large nation on the planet.

[BYODB]

Socioeconomics created the border crisis, although it was obviously made much worse by politics.

Any rich nation bordering a close-to-if-not-actually 3rd world country is going to have this problem, and indeed that is the case world wide. America isn't special in that regard.

You simply can't control 1900 miles of border with Mexico. It's not possible. That said, there is no will from the American electorate to curtail social safety net programs so unlimited immigration is simply not an option either.

Both sides of the political aisle in America are playing pretend. None of them are at all serious on the issue. For some reason the left enjoys glowing praise from the media on the subject while the right gets lambasted even though neither of them are at all serious.

I guess the lefts version of pretend sounds better to most people, even if it's just as outrageously retarded.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

You simply can’t control 1900 miles of border with Mexico. It’s not possible.

No no no. The president has a magic wand that he can use to shut down the border. All that is lacking is political will. We know this because reputable and sincere right-wingers like Jesse tell us this.

[VULGAR MADMAN]

Trump had a magical powers?

Cool!

[Fats of Fury]

Maybe he can borrow Eisenhower's magic wand. He made millions of illegals disappear.

[VULGAR MADMAN]

But that’s impossible!

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo]

Wait until you see Grover Cleveland’s Presidential Time Machine.

[Vernon Depner]

You simply can’t control 1900 miles of border with Mexico.

It's not necessary to do that. We merely need to do much better at securing the border areas that are most practical for the invaders to use. Directly attacking the crime lords would help, too.

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo]

The cartels should be slaughtered outright.

[Vernon Depner]

Agreed.

[Longtobefree]

By whom?
A DEI obsessed military staffed by drag queens and led by incompetent political hacks?
Those cartels are MEAN.

[Pear Satirical]

Sounds like a win/win scenario to me.

[Stuck in California]

You could, also, not actively encourage people to come and cross the border. You could heavily discourage employing people with no legal right to work in the country. You could withhold all public assistance from people in the country illegally. You could follow conventions like “first safe country you come to” with regard to refugee status. Etc.

You know, exactly the things every other civilized nation does to protect its borders and economy.

It isn’t perfect, but this entire “crisis” is massively exacerbated by perverse incentives. And those incentives ripple throughout the economy, benefiting nobody but the guy willing to employ people illegally to gain an advantage over employers following the rules, complying with the law, and paying competitive wages for domestic labor.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

You could, also, not actively encourage people to come and cross the border.

Who is "actively encouraging" migrants to come here?

"Do not come. Do not come. The United States will continue to enforce our laws and secure our borders."

"If you come to our border, you will be turned back."

Who said that? Was it Trump? DeSantis? Or was it... Kamala Harris?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57387350

You could heavily discourage employing people with no legal right to work in the country.

It is already illegal to hire an undocumented person. You want to make it even more illegal-er?

You could withhold all public assistance from people in the country illegally.

That is done for federal aid.

You could follow conventions like “first safe country you come to” with regard to refugee status. Etc.

That is ALSO done. Mexico is not a "first safe country" according to the law.

So the things that you demand be done, are mostly being done already. And yet we have this.

What more do you want?

[CountmontyC]

Joe Biden during the campaign
"What I would do as president is several more things," Biden said at the first Democratic primary debate for the 2020 election. "I would in fact make sure that there is… We immediately surge to the border, all those people who are seeking asylum."

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Yeah, that sounds incoherent. Not too surprising.

[Don't look at me!]

It’s the Gettysburg address compared to this:

https://twitter.com/TheFirstonTV/status/1750603779886477497

[Commenter_XY]

Jesus that clip is scary, every time I see it.

[Pear Satirical]

Dear lord, Jeff, you're an idiot. Numerous cities declared themselves Sanctuaries for illegals. And several offer pretty nice welfare, like New York's right to shelter. Or the free food. Or how about the cell phones Biden is giving out. Hell, some places are talking about letting illegals vote in local elections.

Oh, and don't forget ending the remain in Mexico policy or suing to remove any barriers that the states try to erect.

But none of that is active encouragement, eh Jeff?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

We merely need to do much better at securing the border areas that are most practical for the invaders to use.

They will just find a way around it then.

[Vernon Depner]

Where they will be much more easily apprehended.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

In the desert? The places where you don't want the wall built?

[Vernon Depner]

Where they will be much more easily apprehended. Think.

[damikesc]

If we cannot limit all areas of access, we should limit none.

/Jeff

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Yeah, "politics" created the border crisis--specifically, the Chamber of Commerce looking for peon labor, and the left looking for fresh meat to indoctrinate to hate the US, which has been ongoing for nearly 60 years now.

[Stuck in California]

Exactly.

There's no such thing as "jobs Americans won't do" so much as there are jobs you aren't willing to pay Americans enough to do. Or jobs you need to make more tenable in some other way, but aren't incentivized to because you can always hire someone desperate and unwilling to complain.

And the fact that you're populating jobs with an underclass, unwilling to complain lest La Migra be called, not an integral part of society, makes them even less desirable to legal workers. Once they might have been seen as a starter job, or a step into a bigger job market. but now they're a dead end.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Yeah, even as recently as the early 90s, it was still common to see white people doing migrant labor or construction. The Uniparty basically made a deal that the GOP would act as punching bags in the culture war, while the Dems would give in on some fiscal issues, but ultimately both sold the country out. And it's notable that the argument "we have a labor shortage!" rings pretty hollow when it's the same one they've made for that whole time period now. Apparently when the first waves aren't willing to step up anymore, you have to bring in fresh waves to fill the gaps instead of, you know, limit who actually comes in.

[damikesc]

The Left is also looking for added votes in Congress via the census.

Hell, just have the census count CITIZENS and not just residents and a lot of the benefit goes away.

[sarcasmic]

How's about a compromise. Count them as 3/5 of a person perhaps?

[damikesc]

What is up with Democrats and that type of agreement?

[sarcasmic]

What's up with holding people accountable for things done centuries ago by other people?

[DesigNate]

I don’t understand your comment. Are you trying to say that illegal aliens should be counted in the census?

[Vernon Depner]

They already are.

[Longtobefree]

The constitutional purpose of the census is to apportion congress, so only count registered voters.

And stop with all the market research questions for businesses, just ask how many registered voters are there, and go home. The census can be done with a single letter to each state registrar asking for a voter list by zip code.

[Vernon Depner]

That would require a Constitutional amendment. The Constitution specifies a count of all "free persons", not just citizens.

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[Mickey Rat]

"Politics Created the Border Crisis"

That is usually a complaint that the opposition to what you want will not the side you support have their way.

[TJJ2000]

Having a nation full of globalist-socialist minds caused the border crisis. Seems it doesn't matter socialists keep ruining everything. Ruined the City, Ruined the State, Ruined the Nation ..... If only they could get GLOBAL control then ... then it would work... Right, Right? /s