What's the Libertarian Answer to New York's Migrant Crisis?

Plus: A listener asks the editors to name America's unsung or undersung heroes.

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What's the Libertarian Answer to New York's Migrant Crisis?

In this week's The Reason Roundtable, Matt Welch and Katherine Mangu-Ward welcome back Nick Gillespie and Peter Suderman to the show. The editors examine the unfolding migrant crisis in New York City before denouncing the city's new law cracking down on Airbnb and other short-term rentals.

1:56: Migrant crisis in major cities

24:16: NYC kneecaps Airbnb

34:27: Weekly Listener Question

48:55: Memorable moments from the political gerontocracy

Mentioned in this podcast:

"New York's Migrant Crisis is Caused by a Combination of Federal Work Restrictions and Local Zoning Policy," by Ilya Somin

"Down 136,000 Students in Just Four Years, New York City's Public Schools Manage To Spend Billions More," by Matt Welch

"Let Asylum-Seeking Migrants Work," by Ilya Somin

"A Costless and Humane Fix to the Border Crisis," by Shikha Dalmia

"How Immigrants Make America Great Again (and Again and Again)," by Nick Gillespie, with Alex Nowrasteh and Benjamin Powell

"Don't Blame Airbnb For New York City's High Rents," by Allie Howell and Jared Meyer

"Airbnb and Its Enemies: Who's Afraid of a $10-a-Night Sofa?" by Jim Epstein

"The Government Is a Hit Man: Uber, Tesla and Airbnb Are in Its Crosshairs," by Nick Gillespie

"Libertarians Have Won the Culture Wars, Even Though Universities Are 'Constipated, Stultified,'" by Nick Gillespie

"Santa Monica Evicts Airbnb: The War on Homesharing," by Zach Weissmueller

"Did NYC Just Kneecap Airbnb?" by Liz Wolfe

"County Where It Took 50 Years To Approve New Subdivision Bans New Airbnbs," by Christian Britschgi

"Silk Road Trial: Read Ross Ulbricht's Haunting Sentencing Letter to Judge," by Nick Gillespie

"Robert Lipsyte on ESPN, Muhammad Ali, and Billie Jean King," by Nick Gillespie

"Chobani and GoFundMe Wipe Lunch Debts in School District That Planned To 'Lunch Shame' Students," by Billy Binion

"Some Critics of the Ruling Against Biden's Censorship by Proxy Have a Beef With the 1st Amendment Itself," by Jacob Sullum

"Elite Journalists Love Big Brother," by J.D. Tuccille

"Journalists Outraged That a Judge Would Dare Limit Biden's Censorship Powers," by Robby Soave

"Social Security, Snoopy Snoopy Poop Dog, & Alan Simpson: Ultimate Enema Man Remix," by Nick Gillespie and Austin Bragg

Send your questions to [e-mail]. Be sure to include your social media handle and the correct pronunciation of your name.

Today's sponsor:

• Do you ever find that just as you're trying to fall asleep, your brain suddenly won't stop talking? Do your thoughts start racing right before bed or at other inopportune moments? It turns out, one great way to make those racing thoughts go away is to talk them through. Therapy gives you a place to do that, so you can get out of your negative thought cycles and find some mental (and emotional) peace. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online. Designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and switch therapists any time for no additional charge. Visit BetterHelp.com/roundtable today to get 10 percent off your first month.
• The Soho Forum: Yaron Brook vs. Bryan Caplan on anarcho-capitalism, September 18. Use REASON promo code to get 25 percent off all tickets.

Audio production by Ian Keyser; assistant production by Hunt Beaty.

Music: "Angeline," by The Brothers Steve

What are we consuming this week?

Nick Gillespie

• Apocalypse Not: I Got Engaged in the Mud at Burning Man, by Nick Gillespie

Peter Suderman

• The Postal Service & Death Cab for Cutie: Give Up & Transatlanticism 20th Anniversary Tour

Katherine Mangu-Ward

• American Genius, A Comedy by Lynne Tillman

Matt Welch

• Time Bandits

---

Comments

[JesseAz]

End Welfare. No open borders until that occurs. That's the answer.

[Social Justice is neither]

You also need to reenact the natural minimum wage ($0.00) and remove the guaranteed benefits or you'll still have cheaper under the table work.

[Agammamon]

Under the table work is still work. If they're coming here and working - fine.

Its the ones that don't that are the problem.

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo]

No open border ever. When has that ever worked?

[Rev Arthur L kuckland]

Narnia? Oh nope
Oz? Not there eighter
Morgoth? Hmmm strike 3
Hmmm there is not a single liersry reference where open borders has very worked

[Olivahunter]

I'm making $90 an hour working from home. I never imagined that it was honest to goodness yet my closest companion is earning 16,000 US dollars a month by working on the connection, that was truly astounding for me, she prescribed for me to attempt it simply. Everybody must try this job now by just using this website... http://www.Payathome7.com

[Cloudbuster]

The Orcs just wanted to move where there were better schools!

[charliehall]

1776 to 1965, that is when. No numerical restrictions on immigration to the US from anywhere in the Western Hemisphere. You just had to get a visa from a US Consular Officer in your home country. And unless you were a criminal, a terrorist, a communist, someone with a communicable disease, or deemed likely to become a public charge, you got a permanent resident visa. The entire border crisis is the result of ending that policy.

And the US Canada border remains open today. You can walk over it in either direction. In some places you can't even tell that there is a border.

[Vernon Depner]

Everything in that post is incorrect.

[JohnZ]

If the U.S./Canadian border were as open as you say it is, there would be thousands of Canadians making their way into the States just to get away from Komrade Castreau and the crazed leftists who have turned Canada into a joke. A woke joke. I for one would help any Canadians who dared escape Komrade Castreau's gulag find a new life here in America.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

End welfare? Why do you hate the red states?

[tlapp]

Why do you repeat that garbage meme?
https://mises.org/library/debunked-red-states-are-just-welfare-queens

[charliehall]

Every independent analysis shows otherwise.

The only blue welfare queen state is New Mexico.

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700

Red states also have higher rates of violent crime.

[Vernon Depner]

Red states also have higher rates of violent crime.

Predominately red states have blue neighborhoods in larger cities that have high rates of violent crime.

[tlapp]

Milton Friedman said open borders were not compatible with a welfare state. He was correct.

[Cloudbuster]

But you can have both closed borders and no welfare state.

[charliehall]

Friedman has been proven wrong on other things as well.

[Liberty Lover]

Electrified fence. Land mines. Armed Border patrols authorized to shoot to kill.

[Sandra (formerly OBL)]

"New York's Migrant Crisis"

Huh?

Fiona told me there can be no such thing. It's just impossible. Because your sugar daddy Charles Koch's open borders agenda is 100% upside, 0% downside.

Oh yeah, and Martha's Vineyard proved Democrats aren't hypocritical at all when they lecture border states.

#CheapLaborAboveAll

[Super Scary]

"Oh yeah, and Martha’s Vineyard proved Democrats aren’t hypocritical at all when they lecture border states."

They still call that whole event a victory for their side because they fed them pizza, stuck them in a church over the weekend and had the military take them away a couple days later.

[JesseAz]

Those heroes gave them a floor and a blanket for 36 hours and even kept 3 of them to do painting and landscape. HEROES.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

That's not the whole story. One of them became a landscaper in their community. But he's been asked to enter through the back only.

[Agammamon]

He works at the Obama compound?

[Liberty Lover]

NO, illegals are not welcome on Martha's vineyard.

[R Mac]

That’s Mike Liarson’s talking point.

[Mike Parsons]

They turned the "ACSHUALLY, liberals in MV were totes welcoming and threw them a pizza party, despite EVIL REPUBLICAN attempts to show their hypocrisy" media gaslighting up to 11 for a couple days to really solidify it in the weaker minds that this event = liberals welcoming migrants, and they went completely silent when they had the military swoop in hours later to get them the fuck out of their gated community.

The gaslighting worked, as usual, for the headline readers (and my brother Mike, unfortunately)

[Nobartium]

That is fundamentally dependent on whether or not exclusion is equal to inclusion. If it is, then the solution is obvious, NYC kicks them out.

If not, tough it out, you hypocritical cunts.

[Fats of Fury]

Why don't they re-gift them to Delaware?

[JohnZ]

Indeed. A couple thousand or more to Rehoboth Beach ought to do it.
They can keep senile ole Joe's Corvette clean and shiny.

[Don't look at me!]

It’s not a crisis. It’s normal now.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

But normal is a crisis, whenever the nanny overlords need an excuse.

[Anastasia Beaverhausen]

Transcript please!!!

[VULGAR MADMAN]

You get nothing.

[Mother's Lament]

What's the Libertarian Answer to New York's Migrant Crisis?

The same as Texas's.

You can have open borders or you can have a heavily regulated employment sector and welfare state.

You can't have both. If you do the first while having the second, you destroy yourself and beggar your people.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

But you get cheaper lawn care and nannies.

[charliehall]

Read some of the links. The entire problem in NYC is too strict zoning combined with the federal government not allowing the migrants to work -- that link is 100 percent correct. Adams is pushing massive numbers of rezonings, as did De Blasio, and they both have had some success. (In California, Newsom has been doing the same. Why is it that it is Democrats who are trying to loosen government restrictions but not Republicans?) In the NYC suburbs, however, the NIMBYs are all powerful and have been for decades.

And simply giving the migrants work permits would solve most of the problems even without rezonings.

[Zeb]

Stop giving them free shit. Expect immigrants to work and pay their own way. Stop broad asylum and refugee programs.

[sarcasmic]

Get rid of work permits.

[JesseAz]

Done socking for the day?

Note how you didnt mention welfare or benefits.

[sarcasmic]

I also didn’t mention that water is wet.

Look. I know that you've completely dehumanized these people and see them as nothing but automatons that seek out welfare and vote for Democrats, but believe it or not they are people. Unlike you many have both pride and a sense of shame. They want to do well for their families. It wouldn't surprise me if it's easier for them to get assistance than get permission to get a job. Why do you focus on assistance and completely ignore barriers to them getting work?

[VULGAR MADMAN]

We all know you’re never dry.

[sarcasmic]

You got me. I prefer deodorant over antiperspirant.

[VULGAR MADMAN]

I’m sure you use a ton.

[JesseAz]

Alcohol sweats have to suck for him.

[VULGAR MADMAN]

Imagine sitting next to him on a bus,

[sarcasmic]

I like to fart in public. Especially when I'm sitting next to agros like you.

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo]

You like to snivel and cower like the little pushy you are too. When ar e you going to step up and follow through on your threats?

[sarcasmic]

This is the part where I bring up ideas and you run and hide, because all you can argue is people.

[VULGAR MADMAN]

Lol “ideas”

[sarcasmic]

When was the last time you discussed one?

You know, like maybe forcing immigrants to get permission to work, meaning they've got no way to support themselves until they get the permit, sets them on a path towards assistance.

No specific person or party to blame. No one to insult. It's what's called an 'idea.' Otherwise called a thought, or perhaps a musing.

Something I've never seen you discuss.

[JesseAz]

This shows how retarded sarc actually is.

Do you know why 100k illegal immigrants chose to go to NY? They have a 1970s law requiring for NYC to pay for homeless for both food and shelter. The illegal immigrants then go get jobs under the table. Then they even go to NYT reporters and brag about it. They openly choose sanctuary states foe the promised benefits. This includes food, shelter, legal, whatever.

You would think a former homeless drug addict from Maine would be sensitive to this as Maine has spent their entire yearly homeless assistance budget on illegals. But you aren’t. You have no compassion other than your bumper stickers.

NYC can’t handle the infrastructure of even 100k. This is such a small percent of the entire problem. And now you want to promise easy to get work permits to make the problem even worse by subsidizing people to cross the border. Nowhere in your analysis do you state where these jobs and infrastructure magically appear from. It is just magic.

Your ideas are that of a homeless drug addict.

[sarcasmic]

I'll set your childish insults aside and be the adult in this farce of a conversation.

They have a 1970s law requiring for NYC to pay for homeless for both food and shelter.

Didn't they basically ban boarding houses and rented rooms around the same time?

The illegal immigrants then go get jobs under the table.

Because legal work is impossible. Are you agreeing that work permits are bull?

They openly choose sanctuary states foe the promised benefits. This includes food, shelter, legal, whatever.

Are there states that promise freedom to work? No? Wonder if they'd choose those if they existed.

As far as your disdain for what you call bumper sticker rhetoric, I try to be concise. Pithy. Unlike bloviators like Obama and Trump.

[JesseAz]

This is why it isnt worth engaging with your sophomoric arguments. Youre entire arguments rests on the belief that work permits magically create jobs. Again. There aren't 100k job openings in NYC. They don't have jobs for them. Work permits don't create fucking jobs. Illegals don't create jobs either or they would have done it in their home countries.

Your solution is one of no effect. Work permits don't create jobs. You don't seem to understand this fact.

Likewise you want to benefit illegal immigrants against citizens as they will cost less on both wages and regulatory requirements such as not costing ACA regulatory costs. Exacerbating the issue even further.

Answer one simple question sarc. Where are the 100k jobs in NYC to support the 100k illegal immigrants? You won't answer. You can't answer. You don't want a solution. You want a bumper sticker.

Would work permits increase the number of crosses, yes or no? Why are illegals asking to go to the cities and states woth the greatest welfare promises?

This is why it is pointless discussing your ideas. Because they are so poorly formed.

[sarcasmic]

Youre entire arguments rests on the belief that work permits magically create jobs.

That's the most textbook strawman argument I've ever seen. You declare something I never said, and devote an entire comment to it.

Dude, it ain't that hard. You don't want people on assistance? Let them work.

Is it a silver bullet? Of course not. Nothing is.

What I don't understand is your hostility to the idea.

Why does the thought of immigrants getting jobs make you so angry?

[JesseAz]

For fucks sake sarc. Let them work where? Answwr the fucking question.

Unemployment rate is 5.3% currently in NYC. Where are the fucking magical jobs?

This is why your argument is so facile. You have no answer. You think jobs are magically created as you’ve likely never managed nor run a business.

If work permits are given to all 100k, where do they find work? If all 100k get jobs due to cheaper regulatory burden, how many citizens get shifted to unemployment and welfare?

You seem to be completely ignorant that your solution of import the world simply leads to more welfare.

100k illegals get jobs, cause 75k in unemployment for citizens, welfare goes up by 75k.

You live in a shit hole city in Maine. Can your city’s population magically grow by 15% in one year and magically everything works out dandy? Try thinking through your solutions even to the 2nd order. You’ll realize how shit they are.

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

110k is 1.7% of the illegals across the southern border since Joe took office.

NYC is 2.5% of the US population. So by my math they aren't carrying their fair share.

[JohnZ]

In California, the local government in L.A. is spending $44,000 each for tents for the homeless including temporary bars and whore houses.
That's $44,000 /tent folks. And they get a food truck that comes around three times /day.
I think I'll move to L.A. and get all manner of free stuff. After all being homeless ain't so bad now.

[JesseAz]

What ideas? You used an appeal to emotion without any acknowledgement of the current state of society. Youre literally ignoring reality to avoid the argument. Just like you do every time economics are brought up.

So be explicit. What idea did you state?

[sarcasmic]

Still waiting for your thoughts on work permits.

[JesseAz]

I already said it on the first post retard. Get rid of welfare and I have no fucking problem with it.

Still waiting for you to admit to what reality is instead of magical thinking. But facts and reality gave always pissed you off, why you drink yourself into a stupor.

There’s aren’t 100k jobs in NYC currently based on any jobs report. Yet you think jobs will magically appear and not simply drive down wages, encourage more illegal migration, and other negative effects.

Do you get tired of thinking about a problem after a single thought?

When you can admit to what reality is, maybe you can have an adult conversation.

[sarcasmic]

I already said it on the first post retard.

If so I missed it in all your self-masturbatory rantings about me being a leftist.

Still waiting for you to admit to what reality is instead of magical thinking.

Me not saying what you want me to say means nothing. I could totally agree. I could disagree. YOU. DON'T. KNOW. So please stop with the imaginings.

There’s aren’t 100k jobs in NYC currently based on any jobs report.

Jobs are not static. That's zero-sum thinking. Leftist thinking. I thought you didn't like leftist thinking.

When you can admit to what reality is, maybe you can have an adult conversation.

Whine whine cry cry

[JesseAz]

Lol. So you do think work permits magically create jobs. Do you know why the NYC lower class has been migrating out? Who the fuck is creating these jobs retard? Your entire thesis rests on jobs magically appearing. While you continue to ignore welfare and infrastructure costs.

[sarcasmic]

Lol. So you do think work permits magically create jobs.

No. That's your latest straw man, combined with a zero-sum belief in the economy.

[JesseAz]

Then where do the jobs fucking come from sarc? NYC unemployment is already at 5.3%

Explain how your idea can be solved. You have yet to say how. You keep repeating work permits as a magic solution. So answer.

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo]

Just send them all home and close off the southern border. Problem solved.

[JesseAz]

What does your comment have to do with welfare except to justify ignoring it as you scream for open borders while it exists.

Do those same families have the sense of shame to not trash the hotel rooms being given free to them? Pay taxes on their under the table jobs? They don't seem to have a sense of shame for many of them.

But nice attempt at appeal to emotion since you can't make an intelligent articulate argument.

[sarcasmic]

That's nice. Do you have anything to say about work permits?

[JesseAz]

What is the first post of the comment thread retard? Seriously. Are you able to understand giving 1M work permits does jack shit if there are only 50k jobs? Are you that dumb? They aren't bringing jobs with them. They are seeking out welfare.

[sarcasmic]

They aren’t bringing jobs with them.

They're bringing demand. And the only only only reason they aren't working is because of government.

They are seeking out welfare.

Stop listening to Hannity and engage your fucking brain.

[JesseAz]

Holy fuck. Your argument is now every immigrant brings demand for another full immigrant?

Answer the question. Where are the jobs you think are magically there?

If illegal immigrants formed a zero cost economic ecosystem why did they leave their countries? They aren’t bringing jobs with them retard. So answer the fucking question.

The current unemployment rate is not zero. Labor participation is at 10 year lows. Yet you think jobs will magically appear if more people just show up demanding jobs? LOL.

God damn. Bookmarking this thread too.

All while you double down on ignoring the welfare state as an issue. Fucking amazing.

[sarcasmic]

Answer the question. Where are the jobs you think are magically there?

I see them all over the fucking place. Help wanted signs are everywhere.

They aren’t bringing jobs with them retard. So answer the fucking question.

They bring demand. That’s why you see ethnic restaurants and shops pop up. They’d pop up faster, hire people, and create a supply chain if you didn’t hate them and assume they’re all Democrats.

All while you double down on ignoring the welfare state as an issue.

Not at all. I’m saying it should be easier for them to get work. SO THEY DON’T NEED WELFARE YOU FUCKING IMBECILE!

[JesseAz]

You see 100k signs for 100k jobs? Alert the fucking BLS because nobody told them.

Is all your information based on what you see driving down a street? NYC does not currently have 100k job openings based on labor statistics.

What level of demand? Unless it is 1:1 it is a net loss on the support they bring for their own work. This is what you dont fucking understand. Your argument assumes the 100k is a closed economic ecosystem fully sustained by the people who come over LOL.

There aren’t enough jobs for them so many will STILL REQUIRE welfare. The jobs displaced for cheaper labor will now REQUIRE welfare. NYC already has 5.3% unemployment. Giving out free work permits will indice MORE border crossings causing more demand.

Demand for jobs is already HIGHER than supply. But your argument is to increase demand further. Are you sure you know even intro to economics?

Think your ignorant bullshit through.

[charliehall]

There are currently nine million job openings in the US and only six million people looking for jobs. Most of the migrants would gladly work but can't do so legally.

[Vernon Depner]

Assumes facts not in evidence.

[R Mac]

How could Sarc afford booze without welfare, you monster?

[VULGAR MADMAN]

He also has a lucrative business servicing lonely truck drivers.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Is that, er, under the table?

[sarcasmic]

Funny you say that to a guy with 'Mac' in his name. Almost like you're trolling for customers who drive a specific brand of truck...

[VULGAR MADMAN]

Sick burn bro! Can I hear some more ideas?

[sarcasmic]

Nope. Picking up truckers is your specialty. I'd ask for pointers if I was into that, but I'm not.

[JesseAz]

Ideas!

[VULGAR MADMAN]

“I know you are but what am I?”

Did you steal that argument from Socrates?

[JesseAz]

He saw it on a bumper sticker like all of his Ideas!

[R Mac]

Pour sarc.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Another great meeting of Libertarians for Authoritarian, Bigoted, and Cruel Immigration Policies and Practices.

These faux libertarian clingers can’t be replaced fast enough. By their betters.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

What's the Libertarian Answer to New York's Migrant Crisis?

Repeal all laws that extend public welfare benefits to non-citizens and/or illegal immigrants, including immigrants that are in a temporary holding pattern for a hearing on asylum.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

JFC, I can't think of a more straightforward "libertarian answer" to the "migrant crisis".

[JeremyR]

I'm actually taking a history class now and this was was the Quebec immigration in the 1800s. Apparently they farmed wrong which ruined the land so they all moved to the Northeast to work in textile jobs.

So the libertarian answer would be to enable that again, by removing all labor and safety laws, making textile work in the US profitable by running sweat shops here, instead of in Malaysia and Myanmar and whatnot.

[NOYB2]

... thereby ensuring that we get millions of criminals.

Sorry, but the only solution to millions of people coming illegally to the US is to deport them and ban them forever.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Oh, and from that basic principle down, as reasonable people haggle on those details, one might turn to a one Douglas Murray who wrote a book on Europe's 2015 Migrant crisis. One of the more wonky solutions he proposed was to not blur the definition between "refugee" and "economic migrant". He said create clear definitions to those two concepts, and then hold on to them very tightly.

Six minute video. Transcript available for those who know how to internet.

[ThomasD]

It is a step in the right direction, albeit a very small one.

Because the problem remains one of who decides?

Better that we simply end the welfare state.

Absent that immigration must be controlled. And in such a manner that those who control immigration are accountable for their actions.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Repeal all laws that extend public welfare benefits.

FIFY

[Fats of Fury]

Put them on a boat, ship them to Tierra Del Fuego. Let them walk back.

[JeremyR]

The libertarian answer is to import even more immigrants. That way, immigrant women can afford to hire nannies on their 50 cent an hour wages

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

Fly them all to Haiti and tell them they're in Mississippi.

[VULGAR MADMAN]

So you want to give them to the Clinton’s.

[R Mac]

Makes sense.

[CE]

What do Dems have against Haitians? Even Biden was rounding them up on horseback.

[DesigNate]

They’re racist as fuck.

(Democrats I mean)

[JohnZ]

Ha! They'll know the difference. The Clintons never managed to rape Mississippi like they did Haiti.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

Rural America is booming, but the population growth that’s boosting local economies is also putting a strain on everything from schools to housing and roads.
.
The influx — which started during the pandemic — has continued even as Covid restrictions have lifted. The latest government data released just last month points to a second year of increases in 2022 after years of declines.
.
The trend is sparking resentment as house prices in the top 10 rural counties that have seen the biggest population increases surging more than 40% over the past three years. Schools are overloaded and the shift is even impacting farmland prices.
.
“There’s a lot of resentment,” said Maggie Doherty, a writer and columnist who lives in Flathead County, Montana. “There’s bumper stickers that say ‘Montana’s full’ or ‘Don’t California my Montana.’”

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/pandemic-population-boom-rural-hotspots-100000481.html

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Yeah, funny thing happened. The laptop class from Brooklyn, LA, Chicago and San Francisco fucked up their own backyards, looked around and said, “fuck this, now that my company is 100% work-from-home I’m moving to Trump country where I won’t get mugged, my housing prices are reasonable and they don’t make me wear a mask when I go into the Hardees”.

Good news on the Horizon: The work-from-home tech companies in the bluer-than-blue-found-in-nature blue cities are rescinding their work-from-home policies, so, hopefully the Trump country will see a sudden sell-off and housing prices will stabilize.

[JesseAz]

Nothing but locusts.

[ThomasD]

Spoke to an old friend from Florida this weekend. He said the rental market down there is finally easing up as the corporate back to the office initiatives are forcing many to return to the places they were happy to be away from.

[Dillinger]

>>What's the Libertarian Answer to New York's Migrant Crisis?

unincorporate New York City?

[Vernon Depner]

Build the Wall.

[NOYB2]

Around New York City.

Escape from New York was set in 1997, but it's never too late.

[Dillinger]

Adrienne Barbeaubot and Kurt Russell are all who are left.

[JohnZ]

Where's Snake Plisken?

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Side note: New York is having a Migrant Crisis, Texas isn't.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Reporter doing Podcaster on the street interviews, passes by group of Reason Podcasters: Where do you live?

Reason Podcaster: New York.

[Overt]

It is hilarious that this shit has been going on for 2 damn years, and it is only taken seriously as a "crisis" when the migrants end up on their block. I could be wrong here, but I don't recall any concerted discussion about Texas's "Migrant Crisis"- just lecturing and shaming of the people in icky red-country making the same objections that Mayor Adams makes now.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

I believe Reason did a couple of articles claiming that A: There was no "migrant caravan" and even if there was, 2: It's no big deal.

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

There may have been an article or two from Fiona about immigrants.

[CE]

There was a lot of complaining about the conditions at the immigration centers, and the cages people were held in. Until Biden's inauguration, when the complaining ended (but nothing else changed.)

[R Mac]

Yeah, how do they not realize how hypocritical this makes them look?

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Because like with racism, only evil white males can be hypocrites.

[Vernon Depner]

What about evil white transmen?

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

No, and they wouldn't care even if they did.

[charliehall]

Because it is putting all the migrants on buses for NYC.

[VULGAR MADMAN]

“Remain in Texas” will be the reasonoid libertarian solution.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

The borders between Texas and the surrounding states are Sacred A.F.

[Minadin]

1. Buy more busses.
2. Keep sending those illegals to the deep blue sanctuary cities. DC should be first on the list, but New York, Chicago, San Fran, Portland, etc. right behind.
3. Rinse, repeat.

[Vernon Depner]

1. Buy more busses.

Buses can't keep up. Buy trains. Forty and eight.

[hokey]

I'm struggling to find y'all relevant when the even bigger story of the week was New Mexico's shenanigans with using a supposed public health emergency to curtail 2nd amendment rights and there's no mention of it at all.

[Minadin]

They did cover it at least, yesterday.

https://reason.com/2023/09/10/new-mexicos-governor-suspends-the-right-to-bear-arms-saying-the-second-amendment-is-not-absolute/

[VULGAR MADMAN]

They had an article on it yesterday.

[R Mac]

Great story. Especially all the people protesting while open carrying.

[Longtobefree]

Start by telling New York they don't get a dime.

[Vernon Depner]

The libertarian response to massive immigration is to keep the borders wide open and allow the resulting tsunami of newcomers to destroy our country. If we want to retain our republic, our culture, and our prosperity, we must reject libertarianism at the borders. It doesn't work there.

[ElvisIsReal]

https://simulationcommander.substack.com/p/if-borders-are-imaginary-why-should

Libertarian answer

[Eeyore]

Figure out what NY is doing. Do the exact opposite.

[Eeyore]

Sell citizenship.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

Biden administration releases frozen Iranian funds for five American hostages.

Naturally - wingnuts are having conniption fits.

[VULGAR MADMAN]

Got a cite?

[JesseAz]

Biden gave 6B to Iran to fund their terrorism in the region and consider kidnapping a few more Americans next time they run out.

And before shrike contends this is Iran's money, Iran owes hundreds of millions in lawsuits stemming from their attacks they never paid.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

Biden gave 6B to Iran

Liar.

US moves to advance prisoner swap deal with Iran and release $6 billion in frozen Iranian funds
.
The waiver means that European, Middle Eastern and Asian banks will not run afoul of U.S. sanctions in converting the money frozen in South Korea and transferring it to Qatar’s central bank, where it will be held for Iran to use for the purchase of humanitarian goods.

https://apnews.com/article/us-iran-prisoners-blinken-3e834df0a845ef2cc5c52af14598c66f

[JesseAz]

Even after I guessed your claims lol.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

If the IRS unfreezes your bank account do you say they "gave" you money?

You fucking idiot.

[Nobartium]

Considering they took it in the first place, yeah they are giving me my money.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

Not your taxes.

Your assets. Do you idiots not know what "frozen" means? Jesse has proven that he is stupid.

[Nobartium]

You heard it hear first folks, bank accounts contain zero assets.

Retarded child-porn spreading chimp brain.

[JesseAz]

Lol. Assets they owe to settle judicial claims retard. Sorry for putting the comment in a second paragraph. We know you don't read shit.

[JesseAz]

Hey retard.

And before shrike contends this is Iran’s money, Iran owes hundreds of millions in lawsuits stemming from their attacks they never paid.

[VULGAR MADMAN]

How strange that buttplug would favor woman-hating child molesters over Americans.

Oh, I guess it isn’t surprising at all!

[VULGAR MADMAN]

How surprising that buttplug lied.

[Don't look at me!]

Hopefully, we sent counterfeit money.

[CE]

How is that any better? It subjects them to quantitative easing either way.

[Eeyore]

Giving immigrants welfare is inherently racist. It creates a dependant class that will suffer because of it for generations.

[NOYB2]

Well, Democrats are unapologetically racist and have been for as long as they have existed.

[Fetterman's Hump]

1. End birth right citizenship
2. End the "special asylum" rights for central and south Americans.
3. Prohibit financial aid from the federal government for self declared sanctuary locales. If bleeding hearts want them, then bleeding hearts support them.
4. Reinstate "remain in Mexico".
5. Deport.
6. Set up an immigration system that allows inflows of people that benefit the US. Allow full citizenship for the third generation,

None of these things will happen. We are screwed.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

Why didn't Republicans try similar ideas when they had Senate, House, and the presidency during Fatass Donnie's reign of error?

All they ever do is bitch about illegals.

[The Last American Hero]

Or you could do as Reason suggests and give them a bunch of weed and some butt sex.

[CE]

How are items 1 and 5 in any way libertarian?
If someone is born here, they didn't cross the border illegally, their parent did.
And why should the government be allowed to forcibly remove someone unless they have committed some actual crime (stealing or damaging property or assaulting someone)?

[DesigNate]

I think the argument that being born on one side or the other of the imaginary line doesn’t change who you are subject to as your parents are still citizens of the country they’re supposedly fleeing, has merit and was not the intent of the framers of that particular amendment.

Of course immigration was a bit different in 1868…

[NOYB2]

From a libertarian point of view, citizenship shouldn't matter since there are no benefits associated with it. In a libertarian society, all voting would be done only by property owners. So the issue is moot. That's also why "US citizenship" didn't really become an issue until property requirements were dropped in the 19th century: there were no government benefits and if you didn't own land, you couldn't vote.

The society we have is not libertarian, and there is no principled libertarian answer to how a non-libertarian society should hand out benefits derived from confiscatory taxation. But we can make a legal analysis. In our society, US tax payers hand out massive benefits to people with citizenship. The child is not entitled to those benefits because it would be receiving them as the result of an illegal action by the parents, just like the child is not entitled to keeping any other proceeds from an illegal action committed by the parents.

[charliehall]

1) You hate the Constitution?

2) No special rights as it is. Most migrants get their asylum applications rejected.

3) Probably unconstitutional as well, for the same reason that the mandate to expand Medicaid was. You don't like states rights, do you.

4) Illegal under US law unless Mexico agrees.

5) Illegal unless there is a reason. We should round you up and deport you; you seem to hate America

6) So create a permanent underclass. In other countries, that breeds revolution. In fact, it did in Rhode Island -- twice in its history.

[AT]

The libertarian answer is to NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES bail out sanctuary cities in any way shape or form. Continue shipping all the illegals there until they either admit the problem and step down from power, or until the cities collapse.

These morons have to learn the hard way. Do not spare them the lesson.

[CE]

The libertarian answer?
Let citizens hire who they want, pay them what they want, and rent houses or apartments to who they want to rent them to.
If people choose to immigrate with no arrangements for their employment or their housing, refer them to the local charities.

[NOYB2]

The libertarian answer?
Let citizens hire who they want, pay them what they want, and rent houses or apartments to who they want to rent them to.

The libertarian answer is that you can hire whoever you want IF YOU PAY the average per capita government spending for each foreigner you hire and bring into the country, each and every year that they are here. And if they disappear, you are on the hook until they are found or until you die.

This reduces to "you can hire whoever you want" just as soon as the government has shrunk to the libertarian zero size.

Bringing in arbitrary people into a social welfare state while not paying for them yourself is not a libertarian answer, it's living at other people's expense.

[Zeb]

I think he covered it with "refer them to the local charities". Of course the libertarian answer involves not giving anyone welfare.

[NOYB2]

See, that's the point: employment and housing are not sufficient, nor is this about welfare. People impose significant costs on government even if they never receive a dime in government handouts.

Government in the US spends, on average, about $20000/person/year. If you invite someone into the country, we are worse off unless that person pays at least roughly $20000 in taxes per year.

[AT]

Sure. We'll keep that in mind the next time a cell of jihadis are "just looking for a place to stay and a nice steady job." Or "former" cartel drug runners and sex traffickers. I'm sure those guys from China, Russia, and Iran are just here for an honest day's work that doesn't involve espionage or otherwise subversive activity.

The citizens can't properly vet the illegals, CE. There IS a degree of national security that deserves to be considered.

[TJJ2000]

What's the libertarian answer?

Um.... Article IV Section 4 "The United States" ... "shall protect each of them against Invasion"???

[charliehall]

This isn't an invasion. The migrants are legal.

[TJJ2000]

…because of the lefts “Open Borders” take on the immigration process/law?

[NOYB2]

What "migrant crisis"? Reason keeps telling us how economically and socially beneficial illegal migrants are! After all, New Yorkers should be able to have their toilets cleaned, their dogs walked, and their babies sat by illegals at a fraction of the cost of a unionized American! Prosperity for all! /sarc

[Mike Parsons]

Can we put a pin in this one signifying when the "ACSHUALLY, illegals are a net tax payer, dont consume public services, and a net positive for cities" was officially proven to be complete horseshit?

I mean we all knew it was horseshit (rather, anyone who has a functioning brain) but now we have sanctuary cities crying over a tiny percentage of what border states face, and threatening that they will have to drastically cut social services due to the burden placed on them by these so called "net tax payers"

[Zeb]

They'd pay a lot more in taxes if they could more easily get regular payroll jobs. What's the official proof? It doesn't seem obviously like bullshit. Or at least didn't several years ago before the masses of "asylum seekers". I have no doubt they are not net taxpayers.

[NOYB2]

They’d pay a lot more in taxes if they could more easily get regular payroll jobs.

Given the highly progressive US tax system and the large debt the US accrues every year, unless they make more than $100000/year, they don't pay enough in taxes to make up for the cost they impose on society. Almost all asylum seekers lack the skills.

[charliehall]

They aren't "illegals". They are here legally. And they can't work legally.

The proud ignorance expressed here is really striking.

[TJJ2000]

One of the wonderful outcomes of stupid immigration policy?
Something about a "Remain in Mexico" policy that was much better.

[ThatSkepticGuy]

Lying dipshit.

[Jerry B.]

"What's the Libertarian Answer to New York's Migrant Crisis?"

People who want more immigration form voluntary organizations to feed, clothe, house, educate, provide medical care, etc. for immigrants, paid for entirely by contributions.

Hey. You said Libertarian, not Democrat.

[Bill McNeal]

Efficiency and progress is ours once more
Now that we have the neutron bomb
It's nice and quick and clean and gets things done
Away with excess enemy
But no less value to property
No sense in war but perfect sense at home

The sun beams down on a brand new day
No more welfare tax to pay
Unsightly slums gone up in flashing light
Jobless millions whisked away
At last we have more room to play
All systems go to kill the poor tonight

Gonna kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor tonight

Behold the sparkly of champagne
The crime rate's gone, feel free again
Oh life's a dream with you, Miss Lily White
Jane Fonda on the screen today
Convinced the liberals it's okay
So let's get dressed and dance away the night

While they kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor tonight

[TJJ2000]

Hey man. I'm 'poor' so hand over your money or you're killing me.. /s

[ThatSkepticGuy]

Yeah, punk has always been conformist, totalitarian idiocy.

[Social Justice is neither]

Funny how it's only a crisis once leftist enclaves begin screaming about the costs. Fuck off, you all demanded this so you can live with the realities of your "immigrants are a costless unalloyed goid" rhetoric until you are cutting this nonsense off from the source.

[Witch-Burning Nazi]

What's the Libertarian Answer to New York's Migrant Crisis?

Libertarian: Crisis? What crises?

[ThomasD]

Migrant crisis.

"Crisis."

Only now is it a crisis. Now that all your swell neighbors are having to deal with a small slice of what they flyover rubes have been facing for years.

You flaming bunch of dishonest fuckwit poseurs.

[ThomasD]

And it is funny how secret midnight flights of migrants, hidden from the press were such a non story to these fuckwits so long as they were on somebody else's doorstep.

[NOYB2]

Eric Adams is a successful politician because his greed, entitlement, and extensive use of motivated reasoning so perfectly embody the views of many New Yorkers and many Americans: "I deserve lots of free stuff, and I want to virtue signal with other people's money."

[charliehall]

He was elected Mayor because he opposed Defund Police. You support Defund Police?

[NOYB2]

Is that the way your addled mind actually works?

Catering to greed, entitlement, and self-righteousness are a prerequisite for simply being on any ballot in NYC.

[wingnutx]

It's a crisis now?

It was all good when they were massing up in Texas and Arizona..

[Liberty Yeti]

Q: "What's the libertarian answer to New York's migrant crisis?"

A: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Maybe, just maybe, the party would do better than 1% if it didn't lean so hard into its most unpopular and unworkable policy positions?

[Agammamon]

We told you the answer to that 20 years ago.

End the welfare state and immediately open-immigration stops being a problem.

You want to open the borders *and then* - some time in the indefinite future - end welfare. No, close the borders, then end welfare, then open them up.

Until then, a policy of 'tall walls and wide gates' is the one you should be implementing.

No one's rushing *into* China to live off welfare and crime, are they?

[Vernon Depner]

No one’s rushing *into* China

They are, from North Korea.

[kfs]

The answer to the illegal immigration crisis brought to you by the filthy Marxist's in the Biden Administration- most notably that little organ grinder Mayorkas, is rapid and massive deportation. Get them to the southern border and tell them to start walking south. They don't have to go home but they can't stay here in the U.S.
1. It is not racist for a country to protect its sovereign borders.
2. White replacement theory is and has always been a Democrat
policy goal.
In my lifetime the Democrat party has gone from a party that hates black people to a party that hates white people, pure and simple.

[NOYB2]

Deportation is expensive and difficult.

Much easier would be to require all banks, schools, airports, hospitals, doctors, dentists, landlords, real estate agents, government agencies, etc. to verify legal presence and refuse service for people illegally in the country. All of those already require valid identification, credit checks, police checks, and statement of citizen status.

[JohnZ]

By all means Gov Abbot should continue to send more thousands of illegal aliens to N.Y. City, after all" N.Y. is a sanctuary city so they need to provide even more sanctuary to those seeking sanctuary and therefor obtaining sanctuary in the sanctuary city." Kamala Harris.
I have no sympathy for Adams or the people of New York City. You people had a choice during the last Mayoral election and you chose a cue ball head filled with lead, just plain stupid fool for mayor.
Live with it. No one else cares.

[liveinfitness]

hi

[ThatSkepticGuy]

The fuck do you care? This publication went full Marxist rag in 2016.