Immigration

How Immigrants Make America Great Again (and Again and Again)

A new book documents that newcomers revitalize beliefs in hard work, property rights, and the rule of law.

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Do immigrants bring with them the worst attributes of the countries they left behind?

The fear that they do motivates populists, nationalists, and even some free market economists, such as Harvard University's George Borjas, the University of Oxford's Paul Collier, and George Mason University's Garett Jones, who speculate that mass immigration from countries with illiberal traditions will undermine Western culture.

In their new book, Wretched Refuse?: The Political Economy of Immigration and Institutions, the Cato Institute's Alex Nowrasteh and Texas Tech University's Benjamin Powell take an exhaustive look at the data and find that destination countries not only benefit economically from immigration but that key markers of liberal democracy—such as support for the rule of law and limited government, belief in private property rights, and trust in government—improve when newcomers arrive en masse.

In the 1990s, for instance, Israel took in enough immigrants from the former Soviet Union to increase its population by 20 percent. Yet despite the influx of people from a nation that was explicitly anti-capitalist, the country moved from around 90th in global economic freedom to around 45th. Closer to home, the authors note that the United States implemented its biggest expansions in entitlements (Social Security, Medicare) when immigrant flows were at historic lows.

Nowrasteh and Powell point to record levels of favorable views of immigrants as a reason to be optimistic about immigration policy in the coming years. "Public opinion eventually affects policy," Nowrasteh tells Nick Gillespie. "We can point back to our Italian, Irish Welsh, Persian ancestors who came here and faced the same criticism that immigrants are facing today, whether it's about institutions like our book is about, or whether it's about economics, or anything else. And these fears in the past turned out to be unfounded. And we can make that argument again and again in the United States."

Narrated by Nick Gillespie. Edited by John Osterhoudt. Feature graphic by Lex Villena.

Photos: David T. Foster III/TNS/Newscom; imageBROKER/Martin Siepmann/Newscom; Robert Gallagher/ZUMA Press/Newscom; Ken Lund/Flickr/Creative Commons; Gage Skidmore/Flickr/Creative Commons; Gage Skidmore/Flickr/Creative Commons; Karen Focht/ZUMA Press/Newscom; D.J. Peters/MCT/Newscom; David R. Frazier/DanitaDelimont.com Danita Delimont Photography/Newscom; Spencer Grant/ZUMA Press/Newscom; ID 144144905 © Oksanaphoto | Dreamstime.com; Ted Soqui/Sipa USA/Newscom; Travis Wise/Flickr/Creative Commons; White House/ZUMA Press/Newscom; Erik McGregor/Sipa USA/Newscom; Circa Images/Newscom; JT Vintage/ZUMA Press/Newscom; Syd Kaplan/ZUMAPRESS/Newscom; Pedro Portal/TNS/Newscom; Justin Lane/ZUMAPRESS/Newscom; Oliver Contreras/CNP/AdMedia/Newscom; Bobby Hidy/Flickr/Creatives Commons

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  1. SleepyJoe will solve this problem.

    1. I don’t like the nickname “Sleepy,” but that’s right. He’ll #AbolishICE and #OpenTheBorders within his first week. Maybe even on his first day.

      1. What we have seen in very recent history, is that Trumpistas have been adamantly opposed to immigrant Lizard People, who use Mind-Control beams to make voters against Trump. They have, however, welcomed with open arms (and open legs), the Amphibian People, who use Mind-Control beams to make voters FOR Trump.

        Now that Biden will soon replace Trump, we’ll have a simple inversion… Immigrant Lizard people now GOOD! Immigrant Amphibian People now BAD!

        1. they are easy to welcome when they are so few…

          1. You’re correct, there’s not very many of them. Few of us have EVER seen ANY of them! But that also just goes to show you, how VERY smart they are, that they can hide from us, so well!

            But that whole thing (their low numbers) misses THIS fact: Their Mind-Control beams are VERY powerful! Just a VERY FEW of the Lizard People (with their powerful beams) were enough to throw the recent elections!

            You want PROOF? I give you THIS: The Donald LOST the elections!

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        2. Correction Needed — Voting to uphold the U.S. Constitution GOOD! Voting treasonous-ly for Communist Tyrants BAD!

          You left-leaning gangster [WE] minded people wouldn’t know what to think in a world without IDENTITY-mob politics.

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      2. Before we get a flurry of posts here from xenophobic Trumpistas slamming even the idea of pro-“R”-party Amphibian People immigration… “R” fanatics saying that ALL immigration is UTTERLY EVIL… Let me point out to you, that the Amphibian People ARE indeed “benevolent”, per the “R”-Party yardstick (“R” good, all other parties BAD!).

        Let me give you a VERY prominent Amphibian Person with the CORRECT thoughts and attitudes! I give you Pepe the Amphibian Person, stolen-IP-4Chan-Frog! Racist frog, NAZI frog, yaya-yada!

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepe_the_Frog

        1. More Correction Needed – “ALL immigration is UTTERLY EVIL” B.S. Your deceitfully painting a LIE of a Narrative.

          1. Please explain that to anti-shithole-nations TrumpfenFuhrer, that He lies, by scapegoating immigrants. PLEASE try to make Him understand… And… Good luck!!!

            1. “shithole-nations” doesn’t equal “ALL”.

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            2. Xenophobic Trumpista supporter here.

              The problem with open borders is the problem that democrats aren't mentioning. They want open borders so people flock here and vote democrat. Do you think for one second, that if a majority of immigrants came here and voted republican, that the democrats would be for it??? Of course not. They would be ready to shut those borders down in a heartbeat. So this "the democrats and welcoming and benevolent" is bullshit. It is just another attempt to buy votes. And what are they selling? American safety nets - which are not available in Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, etc.

              Republican's wouldn't care - at all - about immigration if there were no safety nets. And if there were no safety nets, there really wouldn't be massive numbers of immigrants anyways.

              And here come the xenophobic comments:

              Culture matters. Some cultures are barbaric, violent, unprincipled, and with values different from ours. And they will be bringing those values with them. And a large influx of those types of people changes the cultural landscape here. As an example, what this video where Konstantin Kisin causes leftist minds to short circuit when logic is presented to them:

              https://youtu.be/I83_0JcU36I?t=110

              The bottom line: If you like a certain culture - immigrants will dilute that culture.

              1. Self-fulfilling prophecy right here! Republicans make it clear that they hate Hispanics? For just that exact reason, they (Hispanics) will be tempted to vote Democrat! Keep on cutting your own throats, then, “R” Party!

                1. Good grief you lefties are RACIST!!! You lefties practice racism, sexism and nationalism NON-STOP…

                  Living in Republican Central *most* Republicans know MANY Hispanics who are very respectful and have *earned* their place here (who coincidentally did it LEGALLY instead of ILLEGALLY and also tend to vote Republican!) and MANY who aren’t….

                  Let’s just take your racist approach out of it; Criminal minds vote Democrat no matter WHAT race, sex or nationality they come from.

                  1. Put another way — Hispanics didn’t seek the USA so Mexico could conquer the USA otherwise they just would’ve stayed in Mexico.

                    1. Decent Immigrants seek the USA to ESCAPE the Democrat mentality that brought them their sh*thole of a country! They seek a Constitutional Republic not a socialist NIGHTMARE.

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                2. Self-fulfilling prophecy right here! Republicans make it clear that they hate Hispanics?

                  I never said I hated hispanics. I have several friends that are hispanic. I'm sure you like say to imply that I hate hispanics. However some people want aspects of their culture preserved, libertarians included. And people coming the US should have the expectation of assimilation.

                  For just that exact reason, they (Hispanics) will be tempted to vote Democrat! Keep on cutting your own throats, then, “R” Party!

                  Hispanics have traditionally voted democrat (with exception to maybe - Cubans). But tides are changing, because the hispanic culture is a masculine culture. Even their language separates masculine and feminine. The thought of voting for a party full of catholic hating, pajama boy/soy boy queervos, have them doubting the democrat party. The democrats are the party of LGBTQ fruitcake, hunger games, district 1 people, that are religiously religionless, and looking to strip women of their femininity or redefine feminity as not having kids and working in an executive setting. And culturally, they find it grotesque.

                  1. Culturally, they find it grotesque, that Der TrumpfenFuher acts vulturally, lusting after eating the dead corpse of democracy, turning it into a dictatorshit! Under Der TrumpfenFuher, the “R” party will NOT rest until it is the ONLY party! And Latin Americans (unlike the “R” party lately) have learned some history about how terribly poorly 1-party states work! HEY IDIOTS! “R” PARTY NEEDS “D” PARTY, AND WE NEED TO ACCEPT THE WILL OF THE VOTERS, EVEN “D” VOTERS, TO HAVE A 2 PARTY STATE NOT A 1-PARTY DICTATORSHIT! If you want to do some GOOD for the “R” Party, PLEASE explain this to Der TrumpfenFuher!

                    1. Damn, You are squirrelly. I could barely read that. Trump was never a "dictator" and was far more libertarian than Obama. Trump could have declared martial law over COVID, yet he did not. And Trump has been the most honest president we have ever had:

                      https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-honesty-trump-keeps-campaign-promises-presidential-truthfulness-1017-story.html

                      Your entire screed was over the top nonsense that looked hashed out of a left wing ideologue working at CNN.

                      Oh and by the way - those Hispanic friends of mine? They were all republicans.

                  2. I wrote that “Under Der TrumpfenFuher, the “R” party will NOT rest until it is the ONLY party!”

                    If you need proof of what I say, read https://reason.com/2020/12/20/desperate-to-stop-biden-from-taking-office-trump-suggests-military-intervention-voting-machine-seizures-and-appointing-sidney-powell-to-investigate-her-own-fraud-claims/ Desperate To Stop Biden From Taking Office, Trump Suggests Military Intervention, Voting Machine Seizures, and Appointing Sidney Powell To Investigate Her Own Fraud Claims

                    Trump flunkies want to use martial law to hold new elections in swing states that didn’t vote Trump. Use the military to force a do-over where the people didn’t vote for Trump like they were supposed to. Give them a second bite at the apple.

                    And there will be endless do-overs till these wayward slobs do things the RIGHT way, and vote for Der TrumpfenFuhrer!

                    Those states who voted for Der TrumpfenFuhrer? Texas, for instance? And now that time has gone by, and millions of Texans have seen yet MORE of the “true stripes” of the Trumptatorshit… And they voted for Trump, but are SOOOO disgusted by now, they want to vote differently by now… Do THEY get a do-over?

                    Let’s selectively re-play this game till the Trumptatorshit lasts forever!

                    The ONLY way that states that DID vote for the continuation of the Trumptatorshit, will get a re-vote, to make it all “fair” to people who’ve changed their minds, by now, or who were excluded from voting by “R” machinations or being too busy or sick that day, to vote… The ONLY way that voters in THESE states will get a “second bite at the apple”, is to make up utterly fantastical LIES about the “R” party’s cheating, collusion with Lizard Men, etc.!

                    If the Lizard Men stole it last time, what will keep them from stealing it the next time around?

                    What we are CLEARLY evolving to here, is NOT election wins by the most votes or even electoral college votes, it is “WINNING” by “He who whines and cries and makes up lies, the most”!

                    WHY, oh WHY might it be, that people who don’t like the history of 1-party states, are afraid to vote “R” any more?

                    1. I wrote that “Under Der TrumpfenFuher, the “R” party will NOT rest until it is the ONLY party!”

                      This simply isn't happening. At all. If anything, his is projection from the left. It is the left trying to censor everything.
                      I can't even go on twitter and voice my opinion without getting banned. I've been banned there 7 times. In Hollywood, mention you are a republican, and your career is over. In the tech industry, as a google employee, apple employee, etc, if they find out you are right wing, you will be fired, and in general, if you state plainly about reality, e.g. "gender" - then they castigate you. You can't even host an event or talk at a university without leftist trolls trying to get your event cancelled. The party of the of left has been radicalized and they are all virtually ideologues, even you, as indicated in your screed above.

                      If you need proof of what I say, read https://reason.com/2020/12/20/desperate-to-stop-biden-from-taking-office-trump-suggests-military-intervention-voting-machine-seizures-and-appointing-sidney-powell-to-investigate-her-own-fraud-claims/ Desperate To Stop Biden From Taking Office, Trump Suggests Military Intervention, Voting Machine Seizures, and Appointing Sidney Powell To Investigate Her Own Fraud Claims

                      LOL. Except none of that happened and isn't going to happen. And Trump lost the election. LOL. Your reason article to which you linked, the headline itself is a lie, and was written by Sullum, another pinko CNN ideologue, just read the comments were Sullum is beaten to a pulp by the readers of reason. And just because Trump was elected, once, doesn't make this a 1-party state. You are delusional, get back to reality.

                      Trump flunkies want to use martial law to hold new elections in swing states that didn’t vote Trump. Use the military to force a do-over where the people didn’t vote for Trump like they were supposed to. Give them a second bite at the apple.

                      That's because you guys haven't addressed the issue of fraud. Poll watchers revealed that republican poll watchers were kicked out of the michigan count and all the counters were cheering. It was room full of radical democrat vote counters. Affidavits were made claiming sequential ballot numbers were counted, while in the headlines they claimed the poll watchers didn't provide evidence while dismissing that what they witnessed apparently wasn't evidence (What evidence can they supply except their testimony?). By completely dismissing the poll watchers, they dismiss the purpose of having the poll watchers there in the first place. Why have any poll watchers at all? Ever?

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG2RkKBHX0M

                      And there will be endless do-overs till these wayward slobs do things the RIGHT way, and vote for Der TrumpfenFuhrer!

                      If there is widespread fraud, then yeah, a do-over would probably put everyone's mind to rest. I don't see "endless do overs" happening or even one do over happening - so that isn't reality.

                      Those states who voted for Der TrumpfenFuhrer? Texas, for instance? And now that time has gone by, and millions of Texans have seen yet MORE of the “true stripes” of the Trumptatorshit… And they voted for Trump, but are SOOOO disgusted by now, they want to vote differently by now… Do THEY get a do-over?

                      The issue at hand isn't about what people are feeling about Trump now, but about the allegations of fraud at the time of the election. So your rant is... moot. And likely not factual either.

                      Let’s selectively re-play this game till the Trumptatorshit lasts forever!

                      This isn't happening - and it's not reality.

                      The ONLY way that states that DID vote for the continuation of the Trumptatorshit, will get a re-vote, to make it all “fair” to people who’ve changed their minds, by now, or who were excluded from voting by “R” machinations or being too busy or sick that day, to vote… The ONLY way that voters in THESE states will get a “second bite at the apple”, is to make up utterly fantastical LIES about the “R” party’s cheating, collusion with Lizard Men, etc.!

                      So again, it's not about having an election again to check where people are on how the feel about the candidates. It's about addressing the allegations of voter fraud. Which, as it appears, isn't going to happen at all. So a re-vote is not reality.

                      If the Lizard Men stole it last time, what will keep them from stealing it the next time around?

                      Good question, because the allegations and affidavits made by poll watchers are being completely ignored by the left. And the reason being? It suits them. LOL.

                      I expect nothing to come of it. At all. And people on the right are upset about it, and feeling the way forward is cheating by means of mail in ballots.

                      What we are CLEARLY evolving to here, is NOT election wins by the most votes or even electoral college votes, it is “WINNING” by “He who whines and cries and makes up lies, the most”!

                      This is not reality. Where is the "re-vote?" Not reality.

                      WHY, oh WHY might it be, that people who don’t like the history of 1-party states, are afraid to vote “R” any more?

                      This is not reality. No one is advocating for a 1 party state, with exception to a few select democrats.

                      It's okay man. We can have him again in 2024. It's all good. Biden can step in, state his COVID plan (which is exactly the same as Trump's) and be the puppet of his handlers and campaign. His brain is short circuiting and so all his speeches will be written for him, and his advisers will make his decisions for him. He'll read from the teleprompter and do what he is told. He is a face, that is all, and Harris can't wait for him to trip over his dog again and break his skull so she can step in and usher in equality extremism (communism):

                      https://twitter.com/kamalaharris/status/1322963321994289154?lang=en

                      So it's all good. This will be over soon, and Trump can run again in 2024. And he'll likely win too.

        2. Republicans are generally for immigration. Legal immigration. Not illegals. You were probably too busy digging into your last bucket of human feces (likely your own) to learn that.

    2. A new book documents that newcomers revitalize beliefs in hard work, property rights, and the rule of law.

      unreason is so full of shit.

      non-Americans break the law the moment they enter the USA without permission.

      In other words, unreason Commies lie right in their byline.

      1. There was nothing in that sentence about entering the USA without permission.

        1. There was nothing excluding them from the statement either so including them can and should be assumed as they are immigrants even if through illegal means.

          1. At most, lc1789 was justified as reading that sentence as talking about a mixture of legal and illegal immigrants, but that’s not how he read it: he read it as talking about illegal immigrants.

            1. Well lets practice a little honesty here — Politics around ‘immigrants’ has always been about the ILLEGAL entry.

              1. No it hasn’t. the nanosecond the hatred is aimed at ‘the immigrant’ rather than ‘immigration policy’, then you are no longer talking about illegal migration. Rather you are talking immigrants who look different.

                1. Perhaps the bigger picture is things like Obama’s DACA E.O. of which many still see as ILLEGAL entry whether one-single person decides so or not.

                  1. So it is giving them a pass. That could be done. Happens all the time in law. Cop, judge, prosecutor let you off the hook. Laws get changed.

                2. That’s just a leftist distraction to justify illegals. Shaming their opponents by claiming racism, or meanness, or some such bullshit. Because in a rational debate they’re just wrong, and they know it. No one is trying to stop legal immigration.

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  2. “destination countries not only benefit economically from immigration”

    And more importantly for Koch / Reason libertarians, billionaires benefit economically from immigration. That’s why Reason.com’s benefactor Charles Koch has been funding open borders advocacy for decades.

    The evidence is clear. By the most reliable measure of economic health — that is, whether Mr. Koch’s net worth is increasing fast enough — the low-immigration Drumpf economy was an absolute disaster even before the pandemic. Which is why billionaires, Wall Street, and the best Reason writers overwhelmingly backed Biden. And now we’re only a month away from a President who understands the most important function of government is to create an environment in which billionaires can get even richer.

    #OpenTheBordersToHelpCharlesKoch
    #56BillionIsntEnough

    1. The key to solving wealth inequality and promoting strong property rights is a never ending supply of cheap, unskilled labor from our South American neighbors.

      1. That is the “Party of Slavery” agenda alright… But they’ll paint it with some sort of B.S. “forced charity” narrative.

      2. Along with the human trafficking, drugs and crime that comes with them?

      3. Or mulch all the progs so we don’t have to about bullshit concepts like ‘wealth inequality’ ever again.

    2. And now we’re only a month away from a President [BIDEN] who understands the most important function of government is to create an environment in which billionaires can get even richer.

      ROFL! Can't believe he is actually referring to Biden. I would suggest you take a peek at the democrat party platform. The democrats are equality extremists (marxists). And there is no place in their future for "billionaires." But thanks for the laugh.

  3. Clearly we should forcibly deport all US citizens to make room for more immigrants, seeing how useless I am for being born here.

    Fuck off and die, Reason.

    1. You’re not useless, Ra’s. Just…too expensive to give employment to.

    2. Back when he was still posting under his original cytotoxic handle, chemjeff/white knight quite literally made this exact argument.

      1. It was hilarious when he’d advocate bombing the living shit out of them when they were in their native countries, yet turn around and insist that any and all of them be able to get green cards to work here. I mean, make up your mind already.

    3. Clearly we should forcibly deport all US citizens to make room for more immigrants, seeing how useless I am for being born here.

      Fuck off and die, Reason.

      Exactly. These people are weirdos. The United states is a gigantic country, with open borders between states. It is completely capable of self sustainment without open borders to other countries. Even if all nations worldwide were open borders. Eventually you would run out of countries to share with, because there is a finite number of countries. But they want open borders with everyone - These people are globalists.

  4. So the book points out the US expanded entitlements when immigration was at historic lows…then tons of immigrants came. Hmmmm….I’m sure CATO and Reason think this is a quinky dink.

    1. Immigrants don’t use entitlements. They are all doctors, engineers, venture capitalists, and the like.

      1. Yet insist we pass LEGAL slavery in the name of “charity”.
        “Immigrants don’t use entitlements” lmao! And yet somehow they run numbers in the 90% on the welfare books except Asian.

        1. I know lots of Asians that pull welfare, free healthcare, benefits, to the "impoverished" while getting paid massively in cash and secretly pocketing it. They are not stupid. They know how to work the system both ways (The commie pinko side - and the capitalist side).

        2. Your sarcasm meter, TJJ. You should tap it once or twice.

  5. No real argument… Just like water, immigrants are needed for growth. However, also like water, too much, too soon can cause problems as well.
    Control of immigration is not the same as denial of immigration, no matter how much some Reason writers try to make us think it is so.

    1. And some water is good stuff, while other is sewage. The left wants us to pretend that central american migrants without a day of schooling are somehow going to become Nobel laureates just by being here without documentation.

      1. Nobody thinks that. A central American immigrant may still fill a roll, and their kid might become a Nobel laureate.

        1. The sun might go supernova next week too.

        2. Nobody thinks that. A central American immigrant may still fill a roll, and their kid might become a Nobel laureate.

          With that logic, we should move everyone globally here to the US. If everyone globally lives here in the US, then we have a 100% chance that one of their kids that would have become a Nobel laureate, becomes a Nobel laureate here.

          1. It’s so crazy it just might work!

    2. 330 million people. Land prices skyrocketing through the roof. How many more people do you want here? Why is "growth" needed?

      1. Ask Matthew Yglesias. He wrote an OP-ed advocating a 1 billion population US, a few months ago. LOL at the idea of him coming up with that by himself.

        Our Lords and Betters are Globalists, and want a social structure and governance more typical of Manila or Rio, than what we’ve come to expect as American.

  6. Reason Koch is in the confirmation bias hole when it comes to immigration.

    Remember when they pretended that all blm antifa protests were peaceful.

  7. I’m sure that native americans are completely sold to mass immigration…

  8. “Do immigrants bring with them the worst attributes of the countries they left behind?”

    Ilhan Omar comes to mind.

    1. Islam is perfectly compatible with the United States. Muhammad was a successful merchant and caravan leader before he supposedly heard the voice of God. Many Arab states are now wisely investing in Israel military tech firms to help bolster their own armies against their mutual enemy, Iran (who also threatens America).

    2. Or Albert Einstein, Nikolai Tesla, Henry Kissinger, Eddie Van Halen, Melania Trump, Jerry Yang, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Elon Musk, my grandfather ( ok he wasn’t famous but was a terrific man ), Marine Sgt. Rafael Peralta (look him up there is a ship named after him),
      Rita Levi-Montalcini (Nobel prize in medicine)…

      1. When your best examples are fucking Henry Kissinger, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and corporate welfare queen Elon Musk it might be time to rethink your argument.

        1. Funny how none of them are Mexican. It sounds more like an argument to import more white Europeans.

  9. (1) Arguments about economic benefits to a country are intrinsically progressive and collectivist. That is, the fact that the total GDP of a country goes up when adopting some policy is not a justification for the policy from a libertarian point of view.

    (2) The view neglects non-economic issues. For example, the US government attempted to forcibly assimilate Amerindians into Western culture by taking away children and placing them with European parents. This no doubt improved their economic outcomes, but it was morally wrong. Likewise, the existing population of European Christians may not want to live as a minority in a multicultural society.

    (3) The arguments apply to immigration under the current, selective criteria and numerical limits; just because a little bit of something is good doesn’t mean that more of it is better.

    1. “(1) Arguments about economic benefits to a country are intrinsically progressive and collectivist. That is, the fact that the total GDP of a country goes up when adopting some policy is not a justification for the policy from a libertarian point of view.”

      Development of controlled thermonuclear fusion… Clean, affordable, near-infinite supplies of fuel… Intrinsically progressive and collectivist! Because Noy-Boy-Toy the Internet Freedom DeSTROYer said so!

      Affordable space travel, space-based industries and habitats, polluting (toxic) industries located in deep space, not on the Earth… Mining of asteroids… Intrinsically progressive and collectivist! Because Noy-Boy-Toy the Internet Freedom DeSTROYer said so!

      Quantum computers… Intrinsically progressive and collectivist! Because Noy-Boy-Toy the Internet Freedom DeSTROYer said so!

      Genetic engineering for better, safer foods and medicines, and for eliminating genetic diseases, for those who are willing to accept it… Intrinsically progressive and collectivist! Because Noy-Boy-Toy the Internet Freedom DeSTROYer said so!

      Brain-healing techniques for wiping out mental illness, for willing recipients… Intrinsically progressive and collectivist! Because Noy-Boy-Toy the Internet Freedom DeSTROYer said so!

      Laws putting the onus of lies (slander and libel laws) onto the LIARS instead of the conveyer of information (ie, I report the FACT that so-and-so said this-and-such), to give us more and better freedom of speech… Intrinsically progressive and collectivist! Because Noy-Boy-Toy the Internet Freedom DeSTROYer said so!

      1. It would be so cool if you poured a gallon of gasoline on yourself and then set yourself on fire. You should totally do it and then livestream the whole thing.

        You couldn’t make some nice coin on sponsored page hits.

    2. the fact that the total GDP of a country goes up when adopting some policy is not a justification for the policy from a libertarian point of view.

      The metric to even understand if it’s a benefit is GDP / capita, total GDP shows nothing. It’s amusing how many libertarian supporters cite data reflective of the state rather than the individuals within it.

      1. OMG, GDP is just one way of measuring economic benefit. If something increases GDP it’s a rule-of-thumb assessment that it would be a beneficial thing for society. It is in an indicator it is worth considering, and, of course, many other considerations would come into play in deciding whether something is desirable from a libertarian point of view.

        1. If something increases GDP it’s a rule-of-thumb assessment that it would be a beneficial thing for society.

          Absolute national GDP tells you nothing about the wealth of a country. Switzerland has a smaller GDP than Bangladesh, but it is a much wealthier country. Absolute GDP is of interest only to a small elite of oligarchs and powerful politicians because their power depends on the absolute GDP of the entire country.

          Per capita GDP tells you something about the general economic conditions in a country and correlates with middle class economic benefits. Per capita GDP is primarily based on culture, skill, and education of a country. If you admit large numbers of low skill, low educated workers from countries with low per capita GDP, you end up lowering per capita GDP in the US relative to what it would have been without such immigration.

          OMG, GDP is just one way of measuring economic benefit.

          We have already established that absolute GDP measures economic benefits to plutocrats and oligarchs, while per capita GDP correlates with middle class economic benefits. But neither measure measures benefits to individuals. In particular, low income and low skill workers, that is the most vulnerable, can be hurt by immigration even when both absolute and per capita GDP go up.

    3. “… not a justification for the policy from a libertarian point of view.”

      Great, you look at issues from a libertarian point of view.

      “… the existing population of European Christians may not want to live as a minority in a multicultural society.”

      Oh, maybe not. Not a drop of concern for individualism or personal liberty in that sentence.

      1. Oh, maybe not. Not a drop of concern for individualism or personal liberty in that sentence.

        Oh, there is a great deal of concern for personal liberty in that sentence. In the US, we are currently deprived of freedom of association and many decisions are imposed on us at a national level by a progressive federal government. That government forces us to associate with people we may not want to associate with and bear the costs of bad decisions made by people across the country.

  10. “Do immigrants bring with them the worst attributes of the countries they left behind?”

    Depends if they would plan to vote Democrat after being granted citizenship.

    1. Only those “granting themselves citizenship” by criminal identity-theft vote Democrat.. 🙂

  11. In the 1990s, for instance, Israel took in enough immigrants from the former Soviet Union to increase its population by 20 percent. Yet despite the influx of people from a nation that was explicitly anti-capitalist,

    It’s a long way from this specific case to the general assertion immigrants don’t bring problem attitudes and beliefs with them. There could hardly be a better integration plan for this group of immigrants. They’re educated, reject the philosophy of the place they’re leaving, and already shared much of the culture of the new location.

    Consider that immigration restrictionists rarely care about Anglosphere immigrants (except pass-through immigrants). The difficulty is (1) mass immigration of (2) poor people (3) with significant barriers to integration (4) with cultural factors usable to foster separatism.

    This “proof” smacks of searching for whatever can support the “correct” conclusion rather than searching for the truth.

    1. Not the best example. A lot of the Russians just used Israel as a stopover and applied elsewhere.

      Israel though is a country of immigrants from all over. They are almost all Jewish but many only nominally so and widely differing backgrounds. Culturally very mixed. Then you have the Arab population who were already there and have both Christian and Muslims.

      The reason so many of the Russian Jews went there was Israel would take them. Nobody else had such an open policy. As part of the deal the US gave money to help the Israelis resettle them.

      1. I agree that Israel immigration is not the best example but it is a good example of the fact that countries can take in large numbers without significant effects on the economy and civil institutions.

        I think Marshal took some liberties in his assumptions to try to make a point about immigration.

      2. Strange. A state inviting members of a single nation (Jewish) to reside within its borders, something like a nation-state? How obtuse.

    2. Muslim immigration to France is another example of a successful immigrant story. French society has become more vibrant and diverse by including African and Muslim cultures as counterparts to their own secular institutions and suffered only a few decapitations.

    3. There’s also the fact that Israel is socialist.

      1. Why would you say that Israel is a socialist state? It is a parliamentary democracy.
        The means of production are not owned by the proletariat, they are largely controlled by companies owned by individuals or shareholders.
        It would have been a fairly accurate description of Israel until 1953, but certainly is not the case today.

    4. What Israel did not do was implement an open borders policy.

      As far as I know, no country with a higher than average standard of living, especially one with social safety nets, has implemented open borders and survived. Plus, conflating illegal immigration with legal immigration is a poor argument.

  12. I truly don’t understand how people can think ‘immigration policy’ must be either on or off. Never both. It’s not even in people’s mindsets. It’s like the issue itself is a trigger to determine how much of a stupid obsessive-compulsive asshole one can be.

    Two sides of monkeys flinging poo at each other and getting themselves more and more riled up that poo-flinging becomes the entirety of their existence.

    This has become so fucking tiresome.

    1. America needs to continue to subsidize higher education while simultaneously increasing H1B visa admissions to the United States. This way we can force young Americans to take on loads of debt to fund an education for a future career that will be occupied by an Indian from Bombay. Student debt is the gift that keeps on giving from an investment perspective.

    2. A lot of it is political propaganda. Both sides use different arguments and nothing much happens. It benefits them to keep kicking this back and forth.

    3. I truly don’t understand how people can think ‘immigration policy’ must be either on or off.

      Progressives and Democrats portray immigration policy like that.

      Conservatives are pretty clear that they want immigration of high skill and high income individuals.

      Two sides of monkeys flinging poo at each other and getting themselves more and more riled up that poo-flinging becomes the entirety of their existence.

      And you just did some of that poo flinging yourself.

    4. I truly don’t understand how people can think ‘immigration policy’ must be either on or off.

      Literally nobody thinks that. We admit over a million legal immigrants a quarter million illegal immigrants every year in this country. Idiots like you and the Reason cunt brigade consider this “off”. Others consider it “on” and sufficient.

  13. The US problem with immigration more complex than may be addressed by the book. We have people that want to immigrate, people that want to work here only, and people that don’t want to be here by have little choice.

    Most of the people that really want to come here are likely leaving war torn countries or countries with authoritative crackdowns. They are educated. These will likely be assets to our country. We need to assist in their entry and assimilation with good immigration policies.

    Those wanting to work here likely have no affinity for our country other than to make money. They do jobs that need to be done and will then leave. We need to facilitate their entry and exit from the country. Border policies need to consider and support this goal.

    Finally those who don’t want to be here are likely fleeing problems in their country causing instability. Best thing here is to work to create stability. Get the money out of the drug trade by legalizing more drugs in this country. Give effective financial aid to these countries. I realize this is tricky. You don’t want the money to end up in some government official hands. But that alone is not a reason to not supply financial aid.

    1. The reality is exactly the opposite of what you describe. People who are escaping war-torn or authoritarian government often DON’T want to come here, they’re trying to get away from there. They have little affinity for out country, but looking for any port in a storm. They are often uneducated and unprepared to assimilate to a new culture.

      People who WANT to come here are educated and will likely be assets to our country. They are economic migrants who are eager to assimilate to the culture (or whatever country) they’re trying to get into.

      The point of your comment is well-take, however.

      1. To clarify, I see those people wanting to come here as people from Hong Kong, or the Middle East. These are likely educated resourceful people that need to escape from persecution. People who are the wrong political persuasion, ethnicity or religion for the counties current ruling group. I see people from South and Central America as people that likely would prefer to stay in their country, but are forced out by the violence. These are likely less well educated people who would be more comfortable in their own country but fear gangs.

        1. Have you ever visited a barrio? The Hispanic gangs in the US are pretty brutal. There are a lot of drug gang wars in large cities and they have taken over some of the black gang territory. When Hispanics leave countries south of our border and illegally come here they usually go to Hispanic areas that have gangs and drug wars.

          1. You are not going to solve the gang issue with immigration policy.

            The Latin Kings were started in Chicago in the 1950s. They are the largest Hispanic street gang in the US. They don’t need immigrants.

            Sure you will get bad actors in any group.

            Drug wars are our fault.

            You can try to screen people before they get in. I am all for that. We have the technology to do that. It will not be perfect but real crime will always be something to deal with.

    2. Most of the people that really want to come here are likely leaving war torn countries or countries with authoritative crackdowns. They are educated. These will likely be assets to our country.

      That’s not true. Hundreds of millions of people from around the world would want to immigrate to the US if given a chance; most of them are far less educated and skilled than the average American and would end up a net drain on taxpayers and lower our average standard of living.

      We need to assist in their entry and assimilation with good immigration policies.

      We should facilitate the immigration of highly skilled individuals with above average income to the US. We should require fluency in English and full assimilation from them. And in order to avoid the creation of ghettos, the numbers of such people in the country at any one time need to be small enough so that our culture doesn’t get overwhelmed.

      Given the tens of millions of unassimilated Hispanics in the country, together with massive problems in Amerindian and African American populations, that means that we really need to slow down immigration drastically for the time being.

  14. “George Borja … who speculate that mass immigration from countries with illiberal traditions will undermine Western culture”

    So immediately Nick goes about LYING about what at least one expert said. Borjas is the one who did the study of immigration effect on wage. If he did talk about culture, it was derivative of the effects of wage suppression

    It’s astounding that the authors of a LIBERTARIAN website have so far not published a SIGNLE ARTICLE in the past 10 years mentioning that Econ 101 states that immigrating hordes of people will lower wages. Because that would be recognizing it, and then they’d have to explain why they think that somehow basic economics doesn’t apply to the situation.

    1. You don’t understand. People are the exception to the normal laws of supply and demand. When it comes to 4th grade educated immigrants with a 70% rate of welfare usage, increasing supply has no effect on price. In fact, it raises the price, because sub minimum wage crop harvesters actually create demand at a higher rate than their supply of labor.

  15. Yes… Border-jumping low-IQ third worlders who have been subjected to low-IQ ideologies for generations, do so much to make America great. . .

    In a pig’s ass.

    1. I don’t think you understand what IQ is.

  16. The Golden Pheasant is also known as The Chinese pheasant. Its wonderful golden colors have nevertheless given it the more common Golden Pheasant name. The bird is not only super beautiful in colors, but also looks nice! They are native to the western coast of China, but they are also bred in certain places. England is the largest breeder of the Golden Pheasant.

    When the male Golden Pheasant wants to attract his friends or a girlfriend, he shows his feathers. Then comes a beautiful orange cape that covers everything except his glittering yellow eyes. What a picture!

    The Golden pheasant

    1. They are indeed beautiful birds. But they cannot be found on China’s “west coast.”

  17. This article is suspect. Immigration can be a plus for the US as it was when it was being settled. People that came to the US assimilated and became Americans and joined us. If anyone believes a country such as the US can become populated with 60 or 70% of the population from south of our border will not become more like south of our border they are delusional. No matter what leftist tell you it is the people that make a country and not the country that make the people.

    1. No they did not come “assimilated” Most new immigrants settled in enclaves had differed in religion, language, and culture. In any city you can still find the Polish area, Italian, Jewish, Greek, German, or Chinese neighborhoods. Which is a good thing if you like to find the best food.

      Sure, eventually people spread out. They learn the language and integrate in but many still keep the ethnic identity.

      I don’t really know what assimilated means. It does not sound like a nice word to me. Nor is it a goal in immigration policy. People should be able to function well and be productive. The vast majority can and do. Then comes the next generation.

  18. It depends…if from higher intelligent countries without an irrational love of socialism and hatred towards other European Americans…I’m all for it. If they can leave the “old country” grudges behind (no the “‘Czar did this” crap) and come here as single people willing to work or families but not some overweight women with seven kids and no daddy..I’m all for it.

    We need immigrants for sure but those that will enhance our productivity…

    1. So appoint a committee to determine those coming from “higher intelligent countries” then the deciders can decide based on a ranking.

      Is that your proposal?

    2. “We need immigrants for sure but those that will enhance our productivity…”

      Lowering wages is the easiest way to boost productivity.

      1. Wages generally increase with productivity. There is a theory that there is a productivity vs wage gap used by the progressives to justify increasing wages. They point out that productivity has increased while wages have not changed much.

        That is debunked here.

        https://economicsfromthetopdown.com/2020/01/17/debunking-the-productivity-pay-gap/

        The other part of that is wages are not wealth. Stuff is wealth. The average worker today has a lot more stuff, spends less income on food and clothing than in the past.

        Lowering wages might temporarily increase profits but is generally counterproductive in the long run because productivity suffers.

        1. I thought productivity was measured by dividing the output by the cost of the labor. A smaller labor cost, like replacing humans with robots, or just cutting worker benefits, will improve productivity.

          1. Efficiency results in lower labor costs. Wages here have been flat or milder increase while productivity has been going up. That link argues that it is deceptive but I need to take a closer look at it because it is very technical.

            Clearly though wages have not gone down. In the chicken factory the immigrants don’t get paid less. I can go to the lettuce farm and get paid the same as the migrant workers. The idea that they drive down wages has been debunked.

            Look at developing countries. As they modernize and expand people make more money not less. China for example. This corresponds to productivity increases.

          2. You are right but that should result in more employment not less and has. At least until the virus hit. All business tries to lower labor cost but you are also competing for labor. If I don’t have benefits I start looking around for another job.

  19. The 1:1 correlation with waves of immigration and huge increases in liberty and retraction of government power certainly corroborate this narrative.

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  21. Team culture presents an example in microcosm of the problem with unrestricted immigration. Our small software company had maybe twenty developers and a strong team culture. We’d bring in a new developer every month or so and they would blend into the culture, improving that culture by bringing in the gems from their previous team. Then we had the opportunity to hire a six-person development team from a failed startup. They had their own way of doing things and rejected the existing team culture. From that point until the company folded we had two competing cultures instead of one effective team.

    1. You just hired the wrong people. I have worked in groups with people from all over the world. We got along and did just fine.

      What you are calling team culture is not at all related to sociological culture.

      1. “You just ” … Immigrated … ” the wrong people.”
        Right wording, wrong explanation.

  22. I don’t know how you can possibly call mass migration libertarian when the people who have migrated overwhelmingly vote democrat and have enabled Democrats to steal over 20 seats in the House, comparable numbers of electoral votes, and trillions of dollars in funding.

    It’s also really weird how you ignore the wishes of the people and just force mass migration upon us. My borders, my choice. If we don’t want immigrants, we shouldn’t be forced to take them just because you might find our reasons offensive or non-egalitarian.

  23. You just employed some unacceptable individuals. I have worked in bunches with individuals from everywhere the world. We got along and did fine and dandy.

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