Video of the Minneapolis ICE Shooting Does Not Resolve the Issue of Whether It Was Legally Justified
The crucial question is whether the agent reasonably believed the driver he killed posed a threat, even if she was not actually trying to run him over.
After an immigration agent shot and killed a woman in Minneapolis on Wednesday morning, Secretary of Homeland Security Kristi Noem and President Donald Trump portrayed that use of lethal force as clearly justified. Noem averred that the dead woman, Renee Nicole Good, was engaged in an "act of domestic terrorism" because she was trying to "run a law enforcement officer over." Trump went even further, saying Good "violently, willfully, and viciously ran over the ICE Officer."
Bystander video of the incident immediately cast doubt on those accounts. Footage from various angles "appears to show the agent," later identified as Jonathan Ross, "was not in the path of [Good's] SUV when he fired three shots at close range," The New York Times reported on Thursday. "The SUV did move toward the ICE agent as he stood in front of it," The Washington Post noted. "But the agent was able to move out of the way and fire at least two of three shots from the side of the vehicle as it veered past him."
The Post said the videos it analyzed "do not clearly show whether the agent is struck or how close the front of the vehicle comes to striking him." On Friday, Vice President J.D. Vance posted cellphone video, apparently recorded by Ross himself, that suggests he was in fact hit by the front bumper before moving out of the way. But the evidence so far does not definitively resolve the issue of whether the shots Ross fired as the car moved away from him were legally justified, which hinges on whether he reasonably believed he was in danger at that point, even if that belief may have been mistaken.
On Thursday, the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension (BCA) said it had planned to "conduct a joint investigation" of the shooting "with the FBI." But according to BCA Superintendent Drew Evans, the U.S. Attorney's Office in Minneapolis "reversed course" on Wednesday afternoon, saying "the investigation would now be led solely by the FBI," meaning "the BCA would no longer have access to the case materials, scene evidence or investigative interviews necessary to complete a thorough and independent investigation."
Noem characterized the situation a bit differently. "They have not been cut out," she said. "They don't have any jurisdiction in this investigation."
This case resembles previous incidents in which police officers fatally shot motorists they claimed were using cars as weapons, and it raises the same basic issues. Under the Supreme Court's Fourth Amendment precedents, the crucial question is not whether Good was actually trying to run Ross down but whether his avowed belief that she posed a threat to him was "objectively reasonable" given "the totality of the circumstances."
The 1985 case Tennessee v. Garner involved a suspected burglar who was shot while fleeing police. The Supreme Court held that the use of deadly force is unconstitutional in such circumstances "unless it is necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others."
To assess whether a use of force is "objectively reasonable" under the Fourth Amendment, the Court explained four years later in Graham v. Connor, judges should consider "the totality of the circumstances," paying "careful attention to the facts and circumstances of each particular case." The Court said relevant factors include "the severity of the crime at issue, whether the suspect poses an immediate threat to the safety of the officers or others, and whether he is actively resisting arrest or attempting to evade arrest by flight."
In applying that test, the Supreme Court emphasized last year in Barnes v. Felix, "a court must consider all the relevant circumstances, including facts and events leading up to the climactic moment." That case involved a Texas police officer who stopped a car for suspected toll violations. After endangering himself by jumping on the car as it began to move again, he addressed the resulting hazard by shooting the driver dead. The justices unanimously rejected the test applied by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit, which focused on "the moment of the threat" to the officer without considering how he ended up in that situation.
The Justice Department's policy on the use of force jibes with what the Supreme Court has said. "Deadly force may not be used solely to prevent the escape of a fleeing suspect," it notes, and "firearms may not be discharged solely to disable moving vehicles."
The Justice Department explains that "firearms may not be discharged at a moving vehicle unless: (1) a person in the vehicle is threatening the officer or another person with deadly force by means other than the vehicle; or (2) the vehicle is operated in a manner that threatens to cause death or serious physical injury to the officer or others, and no other objectively reasonable means of defense appear to exist, which includes moving out of the path of the vehicle" (emphasis added). The circumstances of the Minneapolis shooting suggest that Ross may have violated that policy.
Local and state officials said Good, a 37-year-old mother of three, was acting as "a legal observer," monitoring Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) operations in Minneapolis. At the beginning of her fatal encounter with ICE, her Honda Pilot had been positioned sideways on Portland Avenue between East 33rd and East 34th streets, blocking one lane of traffic, for about three minutes. Good repeatedly waved at ICE vehicles on the street, indicating that they should go around her.
ICE agents approached Good's car, and witnesses said they gave her conflicting instructions: One said she should drive away, while another told her to get out of the car. Video shows one agent grabbing the handle of the driver's side door, apparently in an attempt to enforce the latter command. The SUV backs up a bit and begins moving forward, the front wheels turned to the right, away from the agents. Ross initially is standing near the left front bumper, but he quickly moves out of the way and fires three shots at the car as it moves past him.
BREAKING: Alpha News has obtained cellphone footage showing perspective of federal agent at center of ICE-involved shooting in Minneapolis pic.twitter.com/p2wks0zew0
— Alpha News (@AlphaNews) January 9, 2026
These details are reminiscent of a 2015 fatal shooting in Seneca, South Carolina, stemming from a two-bit marijuana sting. Police lured 23-year-old Tori Morton, who ultimately was arrested for possessing 10 grams of marijuana, to a Hardee's parking lot so they could arrest her for selling pot. She was on a date with 19-year-old Zachary Hammond, who drove her to the restaurant, and she was eating an ice cream cone in the front seat of his car when Lt. Mark Tiller, who was assisting the undercover officer who had arranged to buy marijuana from Morton, approached the vehicle. Tiller said Hammond, who was unarmed, saw him, panicked, and tried to run him down, forcing him to fire two shots through the driver's side window in self-defense.
Tiller's account was inconsistent with dashcam video of the incident, which showed that Hammond was already backing up as Tiller approached the car. Hammond continued on his way, making a sharp left so he could pull out of the parking lot. Tiller ran into the path of the car, then backed up to avoid being hit. When Tiller fired the first shot, which entered Hammond's chest through the left side, he was no longer in the car's path. Tiller fired a second shot, which hit Hammond in the back, as Hammond was moving past him. There was no indication that Hammond aimed the car at Tiller, and Tiller was not in danger of being struck when he fired those two rounds.
Local prosecutors nevertheless declined to charge Tiller. Applying South Carolina's test for self-defense, 10th Circuit Solicitor Chrissy Adams concluded that Tiller "actually believed he was in imminent danger of losing his life or sustaining serious bodily injury" and that "a reasonable prudent man of ordinary firmness and courage would have entertained the same belief." The evidence "corroborates and supports Lieutenant Tiller's belief that he was going to be run over," she said. "Therefore, the only conclusion that can be rendered is that deadly force was justified."
A Justice Department investigation of the shooting apparently went nowhere. But a lawsuit that Hammond's family filed against the city of Seneca resulted in $2.2 million settlement, and Tiller was fired about six months later.
The Hammond case illustrates a point that is obviously relevant to the Minneapolis shooting: Even when video evidence undercuts the claim that a driver actually posed an ongoing threat, an officer can still successfully argue that he reasonably, though perhaps mistakenly, believed he was in danger. That is consistent with the Supreme Court's rulings on the use of force, which require a belief that is "objectively reasonable" given "the totality of the circumstances," even if it turns out to be inaccurate in hindsight. It is also consistent with Minnesota's law of self-defense, which allows lethal force "when necessary in resisting or preventing an offense which the actor reasonably believes exposes the actor or another to great bodily harm or death."
Was Ross' purported perception of Good as a potentially deadly threat reasonable at the point when he fired his weapon? I am inclined to think not, although I recognize that people may reasonably disagree. But one thing is clear: Despite the predictable partisan split on the question, the answer should not hinge on how you feel about ICE, Donald Trump, or his immigration crackdown.
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"Under the Supreme Court's Fourth Amendment precedents, the crucial question is not whether Good was actually trying to run Ross down but whether his avowed belief that she posed a threat to him was "objectively reasonable" given "the totality of the circumstances."".
Now just a minute here!
If a man can be a woman by saying so, then a cop can be in fear of his life by sayin so.
Equal rights and all that jazz - - - - - - -
He identified as a victim.
In his case, he truly was. He had ben dragged before by these mostly peaceful idiots.
That's totally false. He was dragged last June by an illegal immigrant whose vehicle he reached into in an attempt to unlock the door and get the driver. Falsely claiming something happened that didn't doesn't help your case.
Walz +7
You’re generous.
Such a difference! Dragged by illegal degenerates, not protestor degenerates!
So he was dragged by an illegal immigrant, not a pro-illegal immigrant protestor?
Man you really got him Special Ed!
He didn't falsely claim anything, Special Ed. You're here to misconstrue the situation.
A distinction without a difference.
He didn't have to place himself in her path as she tried to get home, a few houses down the street to her kids. SHE lived there. He was a vicious armed thug with a dangerous history of violence.
We the people are under siege! Authorities are running amok!
This is your brain on drugs.
fire at least two of three shots from the side
And the first shot was through the windshield.
* Your "at least" is intentionally misleading. "At most" would be more accurate.
* One of these facts is irrelevant.
ETA that the quibbling over whether her front bumper actually hit him or touched him is irrelevant too. Would you similarly quibble that Trump was not in danger because the bullet only nicked his ear and the other shots only came close?
Once again for the retarded cats writing at Reason:
No reasonable, responsible, judge, defense attorney, or prosecutor would even *try* to hang a verdict on one vs. two vs. three shots. The idea is sperg dunking retardation that assumes 12 random people, who couldn't otherwise agree on a coin toss or rojambo, would all agree to the same number of shots up front. The only people who aren't and weren't utterly armchair-ing it from home would be people who can... somehow... safely assume that "12 angry people" would agree with them up front.
For emphasis:
The department emphasized that accident, fear, negligence, or bad judgment are not enough to establish a willful violation, and no such intent was proven.
You have to not just think, but conclusively convince other people, that this ICE officer, who is clearly walking around the car filming (like a journalist no less!) without a weapon drawn and not engaging in any way... intended to kill her.
Note the point where he moves his phone from his right to his left hand, after getting sassed by the victim's wife. That's freeing up his hand to use his weapon...but he takes the threat so seriously that he keeps making his video?
Because it happened very quickly. He did what he could in the milliseconds he had.
The issue isn't how many shots are excessive. The issue is whether the second and third shots were fired after the threat, or alleged threat, was eliminated. He was out of the way of the car after the first shot.
Split time was less that 200 milliseconds between shots. The idea he was supposed to positively identify whether the threat was no longer actionable in less than half a second and stop the third shot, let alone less than a quarter of a second for the second shot, is so far beyond retarded it's not even funny.
I'm finding it funny.
But did he try pausing the video for a frame by frame analysis?
The first shot was about 3 inches from the edge of the windshield and was fired from a position at the side of the vehicle near the marker light.
So, better aim next time?
Doesn't matter. He's flat out lying.
Tell me you failed trigonometry without telling me.
Are we sure Special Ed even got that far in high school?
He’s looking up what trigonometry means as we speak.
Also triggernometry.
You’re either dumb as fuck or a liar.
Ed, Ed……. this was a clean shoot. So stop lying. You’re just further embarrassing yourself.
If anything, ICE shows far too much restraint.
Yes. If your weapon is in your right hand and you are struck by the left front corner of a vehicle, and you were trained really well, you would brace yourself against the vehicle with your left hand (sliding you to your right as you push) and then raise your right arm to shoot resulting in exactly this shot.
You think it's reasonable to rest your hand against a vehicle while its driver is trying to hit you, in order to shoot them to stop them from trying to hit you? That's some real superheroic Flash-type speed there.
And strictly speaking, if he put his hand on the car to assist his shot, then he actually struck the car, and not the other way around.
Lmao.
And the tire was spinning on the ice.
The crucial question is whether the agent reasonably believed the driver he killed posed a threat
, even if she was not actually trying to run him over.It doesn't matter whether Gauge Grosskreuz accidentally drew a gun on Kyle Rittenhouse (even if he shouldn't have been there) or just did it to scare him. The criteria for self-defense is reasonable fear of harm, dipshit.
Ive seen a lot of the retard logic of "but in the end it just bumped him and he was fine", the equivalent of "the guy shooting rounds off into the air only grazed the officer's shoulder, did that really merit the death penalty".
The fact that he clearly *was* hit, with what is definitely a deadly weapon, by a person fleeing and resisting arrest / disregarding (actually non-conflicting) instruction from officers all who said "gtfo the car", when they clearly happily and merrily put themselves directly into the situation, while taunting...
I mean this is a pretty open and shut case
The commands WERE conflicting. One said leave, another said get out of the fucking car. Also, ICE agents have VERY limited authority over US citizens. There was no probable cause and no authority for the actions taken by ICE.
You're right. It's open and shut. He's a murderer.
Walz +8
Obstructing an officer or agent executing the law is illegal dumbfuck.
You retards tried to sentence J6ers for 20 years even misusing a law based on obstruction retard.
According to MAGA logic the police present at the J6 Insurrection would have every right to machine-gun down every single “peaceful tourist” present. They were certainly being physically attacked and were certainly being “threatened” by the mob.
But as per Right-Wing Authoritarianism, MAGAs will universally state they were justified in “obstructing” the legal transfer of power and physically assaulting the police on duty.
Mr. Marx fails to remember a certain Ms. Babbit being gunned downed at the capitol.
I’ll bite at your attempt to deflect from being caught in your own hypocrisy and inconsistencies. If you actually believed your own tripe, you would say that Ms Babbit had it coming and deserved it.
Your contention is that all of the protesters would be gunned down based on a threat assessment. Mine is that, yes, one was because apparently the shooter was threatened by flying glass and someone climbing through a broken window. The hypocrisy is the left claiming that was a legitimate threat and the mommy with stuffed animals in her SUV driving towards the officer wasn't.
You missed the Marx on that one Carl. So much for logic.
Special Ed, please put the padded helmet back on your head.
Intentionally blocking the road is probable cause you retard.
Ed, the shoot was clean. You med to to dial it back and warn your fellow travelers that many more of you will be put down if you threaten federal officers. If any of you cunts tried to hit me with your car I would kill you without hesitation.
So best you just stay out of the way if you want to to keep breathing.
And the officer's own phone camera footage shows her actively steering the wheel the opposite direction of him before she accelerated, clearly not attempting to hit him.
She. Hit. Him.
My god some of you. Trying to go frame by frame to contradict a rational belief that occurred in seconds.
This is just pure retarded cope.
"she steered AWAY from him with the large deadly weapon that she hit him with"
and
"she tried to deescalate! She said im not mad at you"
*with a shit eating taunting grin, right before her wife said "what you gonna come at us" *
are the new NPC talking points, now that this video has rekt them
Had the tires not spun and the ICE officer was dead instead and she was arrested, would you be happy then?
Just watched it again. All you hear is "get out of the vehicle, gtfo the vehicle"
Stop lying
They’re leftists. They can’t stop.
The person yelling drive baby drive was the wife, not one of the officers.
"The commands WERE conflicting. One said leave, another said get out of the fucking car."
Not at the same time but subsequential, you absolute fucking liar. She was told to leave well before, but when she tried to run the other over THEN she was told "get out of the fucking car".
You guys never bother with truth when you're trying to run lynch mobs and incite civil unrest.
You lied about Bernard Goetz, you lied about George Zimmerman and you lied about Derek Chauvin, and now you're lying about this guy. All to foment enough unrest for your greasy little colour revolution against Trump.
Shooting a tire or the engine wouldn't be anti-life enough to suit the mystical Gestapo.
Just shoot em in the leg! Retard.
Cue the Kent State reference...
Shooting a tire isn't going to stop the vehicle and prevent someone getting hit by it at close range...any more than shooting the driver would. The effective self defense tactic when you're in fear of getting hit by a car is to get the fuck out of its path.
fuck you mr superhero fuckwad with a keyboard
"wouldn't be anti-life enough"
This coming from the guy who thinks abortion should be legal post-partum to the 36th trimester, and had his hand down his pants when all those MAGA were getting run over.
You're an idiot.
I think the key point is that people on the left are not taking this seriously. You cannot look at the cell phone footage of the ICE officer without concluding that Good and her partner thought they were playing games. They are clearly taunting the ICE officers.
I don't believe taunting should equal death penalty, but if you are fucking around with Federal Officers you are committing a crime- obstruction of justice. Now we can argue whether or not they should follow through on charging you with this crime, but it isn't a fucking game. I can even see the argument that this is a noble act of Civil Disobedience.
But the problem with civil disobedience is that you are purposefully putting yourself in a position of being arrested. I am no law and order zealot, but I always tell my kids that you don't fuck around with cops. You call them sir, you follow every direction to the letter, slowly and without any shit. Because you are always one misunderstanding away from a tired, associates-degree holding, overworked guy shooting you.
And yet these two women were laughing, joking and taunting the officers.
For me the most striking moment of that last video was listening to Good's partner scream, in a mocking laughter, "Drive baby, drive!"
She will always have to live with the fact that her last instructions probably got her lover killed.
Mrs. DesigNate and I were discussing this last night. These people are cosplaying “Civil Rights Activists” and they don’t really care about the cause de jure. You can tell because they aren’t actually prepared to be arrested or even detained.
Yeah Mrs Overt and I refer to it a LARPing (Live action role play), but yeah same thing.
When you look at the old film of civil rights activists, you see people being dragged away in cuffs. They are passively resisting- forcing cops to grab them and haul them off. Sometimes the cops would get violent, often they would just get taken in and booked. But each time, the point was clear: you went there and got arrested because the point was to show how unjust it was for someone to go to jail because they tried using the wrong bathroom or whatever.
The point was clear: there was a price to Civil Disobedience. You were going to have a criminal record. And if you didn't pay that price, the whole tactic wouldn't be effective.
Good and her partner clearly had no intent of going to jail. They thought it was cute to just show up, block traffic, make jokes about changing their license plates (illegally) and then thought they could leave. They have been brainwashed and deluded by their blue bubble to think that they can really interfere with cops and then drive off with no problem.
I remember being in high school and having friends who just insisted "Of course, if you get pulled over by cops, you can just drive off and no one will catch you." While defensible for a 16 year old, for these 30+ women it is just ridiculous. THey have no understanding of reality and they were shot for it.
Again, I'm not saying they deserved to be shot- that argument doesn't interest me. The point is that they just went into this whole thing with no understanding of just how serious this shit is.
“Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also a prison.”
Thoreau
All these "protesters" fail to understand this basic principle regarding political protest.
They just want fun and games. Until they find out how real it all is.
Next they'll go off and join the military somewhere and be sent to fight. But assume they can just leave whenever they want.
Walzolytes
Good and her partner clearly had no intent of going to jail. They thought it was cute to just show up, block traffic, make jokes about changing their license plates (illegally) and then thought they could leave. They have been brainwashed and deluded by their blue bubble to think that they can really interfere with cops and then drive off with no problem.
Exactly. Un-ironically, it's exactly what happened to Ashli Babbitt when LARPing at the Capitol. Play a stupid game, win a stupid prize. Amirite?
Actually no. Not at all, politruk.
The video clearly shows Ashley was unarmed, had her hands in the air and wasn't trying to kill someone but rather go through the door. Not only that, but she was surrounded at the time by other unconcerned Capitol Hill police officers who came close to getting shot themselves by Ashley's assailant.
On the other hand, your heroine DID wield a weapon against a law enforcement officer and was shot whilst actively trying to maim or kill him.
Not remotely the same, you evil fuck.
Id say yes cosplaying CR activists, but also they really have this "we are on the right side of history, defending Anne Frank from the Nazi's" rhetoric as well.
They have had a lifetime of stonewall, civil rights, black panthers, and of course nazi germany piped into their heads for decades now, and they are ramping up the rhetoric to match it.
The problem as you all mention, is they are soft TikTok kids and millenials, who have never actually faced consequences once. The fact that this rather straightforward incident provoked this much outrage from them is telling.
You know what would happen if you pulled up with a crowd and blocked a road in Nazi germany? All of you would either have been shot in the head, or hauled off to parts unknown to be tortured and die (more likely the former, less work).
The fact that this video shows they are just so fully comfortable smiling and taunting the "gestapo / SS" they claim them to be, and specifically stopped to record it...I have a feeling something big and bad is going to happen and this is going to look like 1/10000th of it.
Absolutely. Their willingness to taunt and harass these supposed storm troopers puts lie to all of their rhetoric.
Civil Rioghts activists back in the 50's and 60's never obstructed law enforcement. In fact, getting arrested in public for public violation of Jim Crow laws was the tactic they sought. They always let the cops strike first.
Exactly! I’d have more respect for them if these activist were doing the same, I’d disagree with them but I’d admire their dedication.
Doing the same... ambushing the killers? that happens all the time just as prohibition agents and narcs were baited and bumped off during the War On Beer and Anslinger hysteria.
Evidently LibTranslator thinks the 50's and 60's Civil Rights era were the same as Prohibition.
Hank’s just riding the trip, man.
"Evidently LibTranslator thinks"
I spotted a small error in your theory. Hank hasn't thought for at least thirty years now. That's why everything he evokes is pre-90s.
It really stems from the fact the AWFL crowd have no meaningful interactions with law enforcement where they aren't considered in the right just about by default, so they put themselves in situations where everyone else would rightly be concerned for their life and safety without really comprehending the magnitude of that kind of fuckup.
I kind of blame the internet and people's total lack of self awareness these days. These types of people are online so much and see so few repercussions for their behavior online that it bleeds into meatspace, often with hard lessons learned.
Not just AWFLs. Anyone whose lives center on social media.
"the fact the AWFL crowd have no meaningful interactions with law enforcement where they aren't considered in the right just about by default, so they put themselves in situations where everyone else would rightly be concerned for their life"
in 2 different convos with retarded family members, I have had to say the phrase "yes, I would absolutely either have my hands on the wheel fully visible, or be out of the car with my hands in the air, because I have fucking kids that I care about"
I know its definitely a woman thing to feel like you can mouth off to cops and not face consequences, but these 2 were clearly next level there to cosplay revolutionaries and faced the consequences.
This is the absurdity created by the media since 2020. They truly made people believe that you could firebomb police stations and overturn police cars and there would be no consequences. This is why there was always this sense of outrage when these people were prosecuted: they couldn't for a moment understand why the government would penalize them for this righteous cause.
The shit that they were doing during 2020 was ridiculous. If this country were half the fascist dictatorship they claim it is, the body count among these leftist agitators would be sky high and rotting. Instead, only the most egregious violators found themselves hauled into court for crimes, while many many protestors were able to vandalize, terrorize and fuck up cities for months.
In a real world, when you confront an agent of the law, you should be deadly serious. They have all the cards- indeed the point of the protest is to show the imbalance of power. Those people engaging of this fantasy of just "If we all stand up to the bullies they will go home" have been roundly deceived by people who were HOPING for a Good incident so they could cynically use it against them.
Actually, this is the logical outcome of the lie that voting for freedom and against deadly force is a "wasted" vote. What you are looking at is the refutation, the confirmation that you get what most dupes voted for until the politicians get the message in the only language they hear.
This is what happens when you choose to ignore half the commentariate. LT doesn't even know what we are talking about, and so his statements do nothing but take up space.
I have nothing against people who chose to hit the mute button. But if you are going to do it, don't parachute into threads you haven't read and start bloviating. It makes you look like a tone deaf, ignorant blowhard...Which I guess is accurate here, but still.
That Hank would be able to stay on the topic if he didn’t mute anyone is an interesting hypothesis.
"... It makes you look like a tone deaf, ignorant blowhard..."
You are too kind.
+1
It was indeed a game to these two (and so many others who do this silly shit). What they failed to realize is that they were the only ones playing a game, and it wasn't the game they thought they were playing. They were playing Russian roulette with someone else holding the gun.
Yes, any moron can recognize that engaging in civil disobedience makes you less safe than if you didn't. And yes, there is a cost to doing so. In this case, Renee Good paid that cost with her life. There is also a price for shooting and killing someone when not acting in defense against an immediate, life-threatening danger. And the ICE agent now needs to pay that price.
Fresh set of retards incoming!
Somebody must have pony'd up the money for some extra socks.
Go fuck yourself sullum.
The body cam video.
https://x.com/AlphaNews/status/2009679932289626385
This is worse than the shit you pulled with Rittenhouse. She drove at an officer. Body cam shows her looking at the officer.
Seriously fuck yourself sullum.
There was a case jist last year in LA regarding shooting a driver using a car towards officers. Not guilty even in LA.
The fact you sit here repeating dem talking point despite videos literally showing the officer being hit is absurd.
And as a reminder. This same officer was dragged by an illegal a few months back, requiring 33 stitches.
Youre a retarded hack sullum.
"But the agent was able to move out of the way and fire at least two of three shots from the side of the vehicle as it veered past him."
Hey sullum, you retarded fuck. Is the first bullet hole through the front windshield?
The amount of desperation and twisting you submit yourself to as you grovel at the feet of corporate media is disgusting. Did you even bother watching the fucking videos? You keep saying what others say.
Everyone know fascists are issued special bullets that can turn corners and enter a windshield from the front when fired from the side.
Turns out ICE get's their weapons from Jean-Baptiste Emmanuel Zorg? They really are working for the ultimate evil!
The magic bullet theory has been around since 1963.
https://imgur.com/a/ZPiGHbH
Where does the start of the red line put a right handed person dumdum?
Special Ed knows the answer, but doesn't want to admit it as it would erode his position to jack shit.
Haha, man this is one of the most pathetic opps I can remember.
That’s a fantastic self own, but you’ll have to do better if you want to out stupid shrike.
Jesse posts actual video of the incident.
Special Ed post a picture of a cutaway vehicle with three photoshopped colored arrows as if it was some sort of rebuttal TO THE ACTUAL VIDEO.
Open Society isn't sending us their best.
I would love to see Sullum and Reason get the shit sued out of them for their lies.
Their only shield against getting sued is Reason's increasing irrelevance.
The 1985 case Tennessee v. Garner involved a suspected burglar who was shot while fleeing police.
Then you use the wrong fucking case. She wasn't fleeing. She was actively hitting an officer.
Barnes v Felix was just this fucking year for most recent case.
The officer was in immediate vicinity of the car moving towards him, it in fact hit him.
Then you use the wrong fucking case. She wasn't fleeing.
Also, unless the burglar broke into the house using their car fleeing on foot vs. driving away (towards) is a completely different case.
This is really getting as bad as ENB's "The youth was shot in the back, unarmed, while fleeing." and, when the bodycam was released, he's clearly depicted running directly at the officer who shot him, in the front, weapon in hand.
(2) the vehicle is operated in a manner that threatens to cause death or serious physical injury to the officer or others, and no other objectively reasonable means of defense appear to exist
Like looking at the officer as she literally hits him??
Was Ross' purported perception of Good as a potentially deadly threat reasonable at the point when he fired his weapon? I am inclined to think not, although I recognize that people may reasonably disagree.
How can you make this determination when you apparently havent even watched the videos yourself sullum?
Fuck. Off.
Sullum's take was as predictable as humanly possible.
I shouldn’t have been surprised because…Sullum. But damn, when I saw the video from the cops point of view I assumed that would be the end of the bullshit. Nope.
Tim pool wrecked the dishonest NYT analysis sullum depends on last night.
And yet Sullum isn’t really human.
probably pretty standard when multiple officers are surrounding the vehicle saying "get out of the car!" to consider the person may go rogue, given it happens every day.
Right. And Rene Good simply made the wrong turn and wounded up next to ICE.
She was just a mom who was dropping off her kids.
She was just sitting in her car.
She was trying to turn around.
She was a legal observer.
She just panicked.
All of the lies media has told and CJ and Sullum are right with them.
yup.
Now we have video that they picked the spot, parked to obstruct, one got out to film, then they taunted and literally were saying "what you wanna come at me", before ignoring commands and recklessly fleeing, hitting an officer.
They lied literally every step
The officer calmly walking around the vehicle is going to close the case without trial IMO.
No even half-competent court is going to be able to keep a jury from seeing that video and no jury that isn't hand picked by the prosecution is going to see it and think he intended to kill her prior to the car lurching at him while pulling away from the scene.
She isn't Laquan McDonald and he isn't Jason Van Dyke.
The wife is more likely to face criminal consequences than the officer.
So the Parsons sockpuppet is pleased his vote for violent looter politicians who sent these murderers in to kill people helped "git 'er done!" Survivors can also thank Tuccille and the Deutche Bunder blonde for helping keep that kleptocracy robbing and killing. Rhe politicians giving the orders? They "shall not be questioned" except while surrounded by identical thugs.
Sock puppet? bitch ive had this handle for years
to clarify: I think its a tragedy someone was killed. in a perfect world, he would have jumped out of the way, and she would be in prison for her crimes. I dont like people dying unnecessarily
Note that LIb Translator is incapable of dealing with the argument at hand. It immediately has to go to who people voted for.
This is all the information you need to know about LT...because LT just wants to smear Trump. All the tragedy, the motherless son, the cop almost hit, the foment boiling over in the city- that is irrelevant because LT has found himself a club to hit Trump with.
This is all the information you need to know about LT
Actually, his website is so clownishly ridiculous and nutty that it's kind of entertaining, and if you want a good laugh, read his blog posts.
Instead of being a loser posting garbage why not volunteer to give up you worldly possessions to you favourite charity, planned parenthood, and move to Venezuela? I'm sure they could use translators there for something. I'm sure you wish you were aborted which is why you have so much hate or you wanted to be born in China where you could justify being an incel.
Again the part that gets me is Good's partner screaming, "Drive baby, drive!"
I hope in 10 years when Good's now-motherless son is 16, this woman can look him in the eyes and tell about how her last words to his mom basically got her killed.
Imagine your wife walking up to a cop and you scream at her, "Grab his gun, baby!"
he crossed state lines
he was underage to own the gun
he went there to kill black people
he killed 2 black people
he killed 2 BLM protestors
*real scene* - a fucking convicted child rapist chase him down, he retreated then fired last minute, then some mentally ill miscreant (and others) chased him down, while retreating more, and jumped on him, kicked him, attacked him with a skateboard, and he defended himself in maybe the most responsible and controlled self defense witnessed on video
prosecution - *edits the video*
these people are fucking, evil
Dont forget they tried to destroy the drone footage showing him retreating.
Not tried. Did.
The high-res footage "disappeared", the low-res backup footage was submitted when it was looking like the FBI's disappearing act was going to have fucked up the case.
The DNC media belongs in prison. Bondi should start FEC and RICO prosecutions. Jus t make sure the cases are all tried in places like Texas.
thats what I was referencing. they had good high def footage that showed him clearly retreating, and the prosecution edited it down (there was a photo of the fucking moronic prosecution teams laptop with adobe premier on the desktop) to the most blurry video possible to make it look ambiguous, a crime they should actually swing for
The MAGA brain is so hollow that they can’t process that a mom dropping off her kid involves sitting in her car and then uber-reasonably panicking at being surrounded by masked armed thugs, then trying to turn the other direction.
The thing notable about the fascists making this emotional “argument” is that they believe that her political opinions are a crime and punishable by death. We see this all the time from the Frog People. “Democratic Senator Kelly deserves to be executed for saying that military officers should not obey illegal orders.” Which is tantamount to saying that Trump and his absurd minion Hegseth
intend to give plenty more illegal orders.
As Ron Paul used to say: “Truth is treason in an empire of lies.”
Her ‘wife’ got to her to go down there looking for trouble. Now she’s paid the price.
I wonder what it will take to break the will of these rabid traitors?
Federal felony obstruction.
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title18/part1/chapter73&edition=prelim
If they wanted they could charge the wife for the murder.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_murder_rule
"Bystander video of the incident immediately cast doubt on those accounts"
Does it now? As a first time viewer.
The only 'doubt' must be founded in a severe case of cognitive dissonance.
HELLO. The video clearly shows the van charging the officer and the officer bolting out of the way.
HELLO. The video clearly shows intent of obstructing officers.
Imagine a fucking Libertarian being pro cop and police state.
In your video did you see her trying to leave when a silver SUV speeds around her? ICE created the threat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiA6LwgYf0Y
The link isn’t loading for me. Can you repost it?
Absolutely. Trumpism is antithetical to Libertarianism. They are on opposite ends of the political map. These MAGA edgelord frog people who still claim they’re libertarians will be donning their groyper duds and scrolling through Storm Front any day now. That’s just how the libertarian to fascist pipeline works.
Yep, pure libertarianism is the antidote to Democrat seizing control of the voting apparatus, loading our population with illegal Dem voters, enriching China, and allowing the freedom of pre-teens to undergo surgical mutilation. Winners.
You’re obviously a Marxist traitor and democrat. Trump and OCE are the good guys. You and your friends are the villains.
And make no mistake, this bitch tried to kill a federal officer. She got what she deserved.
You forgot part of the talking points. A TRULY devoted MAGA cultist would have this down like a catechism. You’re supposed a say that I’m a Democrat leftist communist and a pedophile groomer.
But anyways, your “brilliant” 4D chess-worthy piece of logic is on the same dementia level as Trump, like when he’s flummoxed by a simple question — and all he can come up with is that the asker is fat and ugly and low IQ.
“These MAGA edgelord frog people”
Haha, love it.
Reddit isnt sending their best here. The leftists not understanding libertarianism is always fucking funny though.
2/10
No. Communism is on the opposite end of the political map, not "Trumpism" whatever that is.
Trumpism is in the same Authoritarian sector as fascism and communism. In fact, we see Trump buying up chunks of corporations to control the markets just like a socialist takes over the means of production. He hops across the end of horseshoe from fascism to socialism and back just as well as Putin does.
Yes. All those federal pensions are what's controlling markets. Not all the regulatory policies. Retard.
Leftard Self-Projection 101.
WHO did the 'buying' again?
Seems to me that $ came from [D] Biden & a [D] Congress.
That fascist working to eliminate regulations, and. make the go smaller
"Trumpism is in the same Authoritarian sector as fascism and communism."
More assertion from TDS-addled slimy pile of lying shit.
TDS = brain-death, shitstain.
I see you’re triggered by not being able to refute my point — and can only flail in the same way that Trump flails when he can’t refute a point. He sure has dumbed down a vast swathe of the country.
Isn’t it time for y’all to go drink some more Brawndo…? It has electrolytes.
TDS-addled lying piles of steaming shit are antithetical to any form of logic or fact.
Fuck off and die, asswipe.
The Fascist in Chief is “increasing” regulations, you ignoramus. And taking stakes in the “means of production.” Trump’s economic protectionism is anti-free-market and anti-trade. Free markets are one of the most sacrosanct tenets of libertarianism but here come the low-information MAGAs claiming that tariffs and trade bans and travel bans are a libertarian Article of Faith. Not to mention their unquestioning allegiance to the State and their enthusiasm for extrajudicial executions.
Let me help you out. Libertarians oppose the death penalty because they don’t think the state has a right to kill its citizens. Especially when the state convicts and executes so many innocent people. But here’s MAGA logic: “The courts are corrupt. Juries are corrupt. The justice system is corrupt. Lawyers are corrupt. But the state should absolutely execute everyone convicted of XYZ, the sooner the better.”
LMAO.. Surely it wasn't her parked sideways in the middle of the street creating the threat. /s
Pro-Criminal / Obstruction of Law Enforcement.
How much delusion do you expect people to buy?
Reason is the greatest threat left standing in the way of communo-fascist altruist totalitarianism. Now the Klan wears o+government kevlar and is issued "service" pistols to hunt down unarmed women. It takes a real he-man to recreate Comstockist National Socialism from behind immunity from prosecution.
Did you see the video from the ICE officer? Because it is painfully clear that Good and her wife knew what they were doing, and purposefully blocking traffic to keep ICE from pursuing a suspect.
Now you can agree or disagree with that. But you cannot disagree that it is a felony to obstruct a federal officer, and they are in their rights to detain you at that point. You may not like that fact, but it is a fact.
Good and her wife went there with intent to commit a felony. What they didn't understand is that when you do that, the Feds don't just shake their hands at you. They arrest you.
Now what you should ask yourself is why Good felt that she could mock the police, obstruct them, and then just drive away. Why didn't she expect to be arrested? This is what happens to protestors who obstruct justice. This isn't new.
So why do you think she thought it was perfectly fine to commit a felony then drive away?
I have to take issue with this description. She obstructed the federal officers -- committing a felony by doing so, as you noted -- THEN mocked them. Then she thought she could just drive over one of them to escape arrest. Her thought process is even more perplexing than you described.
I am willing to grant that Good didn't intend to hit the officer. (I believe she acted with reckless negligence, but I don't really think she wanted to hit anyone).
But so what? The law is pretty clear here. Federal Officers are allowed to detain you, and you do not have some right to just refuse their orders and drive away recklessly. And anyone purposefully trying to obstruct officers should expect that this is the LEAST that will happen to them.
Mind you, as a libertarian, I have a lot of problems with how law enforcement can interdict our daily lives. I spend a lot of time educating my kids to handle such interactions with deadly seriousness because they ALWAYS have the potential to be deadly.
But we aren't talking about a random stop-n-search. These women sought out a confrontation, and were completely unprepared for the consequences. And the people using them are complicit in the aftermath.
Got it. We must look at everything through an ideological lens. Facts of the case be damned.
The Libertarian take is for one to be responsible for one's choices and actions. She made her choices - a progression of poor one's ending with her wife screaming Drive, Baby, Drive!. Being pro or anti cop has nothing to do with it, especially if you end up dead.
Instant delivery of a Darwin Award.
I vote we focus on the real issue. Harsh but true: No one gives a rat patoot about this woman. The real issue is open borders.
If instead of ICE agents these were IRS agents cracking down on small businesses owners there'd be silence on the Left (though Reason would still be angry).
Reason would say whatever Koch paid them to say.
Reason opposes government abuse of power — whether it comes from the right or the left. Cuz they’re libertarians. Try to get your head around that…
"Bystander video of the incident immediately cast doubt on those accounts. Footage from various angles "appears to show the agent," later identified as Jonathan Ross, "was not in the path of [Good's] SUV when he fired three shots at close range," The New York Times reported on Thursday."
The video showing the officer getting hit which you posted, Alpha news, debunks the NYTimes report and yet you still included it. Why?
I am disappointed as I appear to be funding fake news BS and leftist propaganda and not a libertarian magazine with a semblance of integrity...
You are, and it's why I don't give them money.
I'm honestly amazed that people think the officer is capable of moonwalking backwards when his legs are stuck straight backwards and not bending in any way.
I'm pretty ACAB - this was a justified shoot IMHO, and the two latest videos DO resolve the issue of legality to me.
But guess what? It doesn't make any difference whatsoever what I you, or I, or Jacob Sullum think.
p.s. I'm also glad I kept my mouth shut until all the facts came out thereby avoiding looking like a jackass partisan lunatic.
I am not ACAB, and I am not certain that it was a justified shoot.
But I will repeat that the reaction to this only ensures more such deaths. People on the left are being fed a fantasy that you can just ambush or obstruct federal officers without any consequences. This is absurd and deadly.
As I said when Garret Foster was shot, this is what happens when media and government abdicate a role to keep the peace.
https://reason.com/2020/07/27/the-libertarian-party-mourns-garrett-foster-activist-killed-at-a-black-lives-matter-protest/?comments=true#comment-8372671
If you feel that people like Good should be out there obstructing police, then you are basically no different than a chickenhawk who wants to send boots on the ground to Ukraine or where-the-fuck-ever. Because you are calling for violence, and very likely people being killed.
Setting aside all of the other circumstances for a second...shouting "drive baby, drive!" has got to be the worst advice for that situation.
shouting "drive baby drive" sounding like someone advising a heist getaway, when literally every officer is saying "get out of the car" is a pretty bad look
Again, I truly pity that deluded woman. I was young and stupid once. I did some stupid shit that I regret, because I didn't understand how the world works.
But these women should know better. She will have to forever have to live with the fact that she told- encouraged- her lover to resist arrest and that directly resulted in her death. I don't know if she was the ring-leader in the relationship or what, but she will forever have to live with the fact that she and her wife were poking a bear and laughing while they did that.
They are not that young and so should not have been this stupid.
Exactly- that's why I said these women should know better. If she hadn't been smiling and taunting at the officers, I would have been asking if she were suicidal. Because her actions were nearly indistinguishable from someone intentionally attempting suicide by cop.
More like a typical women's expectation that they won't be treated the same as a man in these circumstances. It's like the woman who keeps egging on an aggressor then steps back and lets her spouse/boyfriend have to defend her. Or the woman who keeps slapping a guy she doesn't know then is surprised when the guy cold cocks her. It's a misogynistic take but often all too common.
Make the case that Team Blue could give a shit about justice for Renee Nicole Good and isn’t just trying to once again start fucking riots for political reasons.
Unfortunately, I watch a lot of network news at my job, and those clowns couldn’t get their story straight until late Thursday, which suggests considerable coordinated narrative crafting.
As if we can’t see it a mile away by now.
"Make the case that Team Blue could give a shit about justice for Renee Nicole Good and isn’t just trying to once again start fucking riots for political reasons."
The entire messaging "put your body on the line, resist, its fascism/nazis/gestapo!" is looking to light the powder keg
Yup. Had Schumer somehow been held to account for threatening SCOTUS then perhaps it would not have ratcheted up so far.
Clearly it looks like they want a repeat of the Floyd/BLM violence, riots, assaults and looting.
Its not like there was an attempted assassination of a justice... say Kavanaugh or anything.
I have co workers going on saying ICE is Trump's Gestapo and he is going to cause WW3 over Greenland yadda yadda.
People suck up the main stream media BS and have a hard time believing when they are told they were lied to and believed fake news.
Sheep
"I have co workers going on saying ICE is Trump's Gestapo"
Its really weird that I keep hearing that, and keep seeing videos of people running up on them, harassing them (and granted, I will say they have acted shitty at times too), and getting in scuffles with them.
Imagine the dissonance of calling someone the modern gestapo who have unlimited power and immunity, and going up to taunt them, push them, grab their weapons...
They're called heroes Mike. Or as the Oath Sheepers call 'em, protectors.
Imagine a fucking Libertarian being pro cop and police state.
In your video did you see her trying to leave when a silver SUV speeds around her? ICE created the threat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiA6LwgYf0Y
It is amazing the amount of retardation the left relies on. Just the dumbest arguments I've ever seen constantly from you dumbasses.
Yeah you think it's possible to have a Marxist Utopia without millions of innocent people dying under the boots of a totalitarian police state because you are a gullible gaslit sheeple who denies reality.
Seek help.
Team Blue doesn’t believe in justice in any way.
JS;dr
Sadly read it. Was infuriating if you cant tell. Mealy mouth bullshit repeating corporate dem narratives without thought or any critical thinking at all.
Even his last paragraph undoes his entire narrative when he says reasonable people can disagree. Which means a reasonable person sees the danger of being hit by a car. Which literally makes it legal.
Sullum is retarded.
You "read" it, huh. And yet sadly your allegiances and biases keep you from learning anything.
So no "thought" or "critical thinking" (processes you clearly excel at..), huh? Nothing Reason has said about this topic, or anything for that matter, is in any way illuminating? Perhaps something was said that you didn't know? You get absolutely nothing out of it? Why are you here again?
Please spew your
thoughtfulness and critical thinkingidiocy on Truth Social in the comfort of your echo chamber. That's where you clearly belong. Or a zoo.From the sub-average shit, who's dumber than a bag of rocks.
Fuck off and die, asswipe.
Act blue hires the most retarded people as seen by him.
This comment doesn’t address the topic whatsoever. Fuck off troll.
Shrike is never going to fuck you, no matter how dumb your posts get.
You don’t know the dudes age.
Mentally he is definitely under 10.
There is literally nothing in Sullum's article which enlightens. Zero. Just parroting of the MSM narrative, despite clear video evidence and the circumstances that they were there to obstruct. How stupid are you?
Walz +9
God's Own Prohibitionists insist on running the circus from the monkey cage.
Have a drink, Hank. Prohibition is over now. The speakeasy is open to the public.
I started reading and though "Maybe he hasn't seen the bodycam footage".
Nope.
Sullum's an idiot, it's a shame she died, but that was a good shoot.
FINALLY
JS;dr
And sullum, your bullshit here helps continue yo lead to these situations. Another situation just today.
https://x.com/MattFinnFNC/status/2009666509690278216
Youre encouraging citizen disruption which leads to these incidents. Youre a fucking terrible person.
https://x.com/MattFinnFNC/status/2009694749394166168
Keep encouraging this shit sullum.
Says the guy who supports Jan 6. YOu hypoctie scum bag. There was no threat until ICE created one. Imagine a fucking Libertarian being pro cop and police state. You should never be allowed on this site.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiA6LwgYf0Y
Really sending out all the fifty centers for this one.
Sorry bitch, this isn’t going to work anymore.
Imagine posting this bullshit narrative multiple times.
Oh, and the vast majority of J6 were actually peaceful protestors you retarded leftist shill.
The activists created the entirety of the situation you dumb retarded fuck.
J6 they tried sending over 900 non violent protestors to jail you dumb retarded fuck.
Nobody is falling for leftists pretending to gate keep libertarians you dumb retarded fuck.
Jan 6. 100,000 citizens seeking a redress of grievances from their federal government. A few, urged on by deep-state provocateurs, get out of hand. This is a libertarian site, dipshit, not bluesky.
Walz +10
You really are a stupid Marxist cunt. Were you aware of that?
Illegalkind is the threat!
ICE is dealing with them
Jan 6th. Please. Talk about your pro cop stance. Who was running that op behind the scenes freedumb writer?
the "masked agents of death" are so scary, apparently every soccer mom in a VW jetta comfy with driving up on them, blocking them, taunting them
you know...just like the SS
The following link includes analysis and new video which presents a clearer analysis than the author offered through his political blinders:
https://pjmedia.com/matt-margolis/2026/01/09/this-may-be-the-best-analysis-of-the-ice-shooting-video-yet-n4948085
JS; dr; nsy
I didn't realize how incompetent you are. You are telling us to ignore the evidence of our eyes. Every video of the incident shows the lady disobeying lawful orders, the lady drive her car into the officer standing within a few feet of the front of the car, the officer defending himself against a lady driving her car into him.
This was all avoidable had the media and the left not manipulated weak minded people into believing law enforcement was kidnapping people causing those simpletons to attack law enforcement.
There's now a video circulating of a cop killed in Baltimore last year in the exact same position as this officer was.
Here is one from yesterday.
https://www.cbsnews.com/baltimore/news/baltimore-police-officer-involved-shooting-downtown/
Here is a cop who lost their legs.
https://www.fox5dc.com/news/verdict-reached-murder-trial-maryland-driver-accused-intentionally-hitting-police-officer
These fuckers all think this is a game.
I’m just fine with shooting into the crowd when these fuckers start their rioting and raging anymore. Just fucking take them all out.
Let them all be good commies.
Imagine a fucking Libertarian being pro cop and police state.
In your video did you see her trying to leave when a silver SUV speeds around her? ICE created the threat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiA6LwgYf0Y
Walz +6
Imagine, if you can, being as abysmally stupid as this pile of shit.
Hahaha
I hope youre not getting paid for each retarded cut and paste.
Disagree. Waste of resources that could otherwise be used elsewhere.
In fact this more funny than effective.
Fair.
Is ‘freedomwriter’ one of our usual retarded troll socks, or an original?
That's no lady.
Attention privileged white liberals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8
I'm far from sympathetic to lunatic protesters blocking anything, but...
"question is whether the agent reasonably believed the driver he killed posed a threat"
If the agent reasonably believed the driver posed a threat, particularly to himself, could he reasonably believe that shooting the driver when the car was only a few feet away would end the threat? As the video shows, shooting the driver did not stop the car from accelerating and traveling many times farther than his distance away from it. There was no reasonable belief the driver posed a threat to anybody else (making that argument allows for shooting any fleeing suspect). In fact, shooting the driver endangered others when the vehicle went out of control, which was a reasonably foreseeable outcome.
Further, if you are worried about getting hit by a vehicle that's barely moving (in the moment), why is your first, and ONLY, motion to draw your weapon and quickly fire it? It seems to me that any reasonable person's first motion, purely by instinct, would be to attempt to get out of harm's way. The agent made no such motion. He drew his weapon immediately, when the vehicle was still almost stationary. That's not a normal reaction to the circumstances, because the sequence of events it set off had no chance of keeping him out of danger.
Calls an accelerating video barely moving. Even after 2 cases of cops being killed or injured in similar situarions right above. Also lies abour drawing his weapon immediately when done after she backs up then throws it into drive.
You know we have the videos right dummy?
You guys cant even remain consistent in your lies. Dems say he was already out of the way when he moved. Other half says he was never in front. At least sync your lies.
Post the other video leading up to it when she says I don't have a problem with you....TrumpDickSucker
In this video did you see her trying ot leave when a silver SUV speeds around her?
Are you just completely retarded? Did this make sense to anyone else?
Cunt, just stop. You’re embarrassing yourself. Maybe you should go out and try to impede some federal officers like this, and finally get what’s coming to you.
"You know we have the videos right dummy?"
Yes, and you should watch them, dummy.
Lol!
You mean the person who linked to videos instead of writing about the NYT "analysis" isn't the person who has actually watched them?
God you people are retarded.
There is no coexisting with democrats.
Imagine a fucking Libertarian being pro cop and police state.
We don’t live in a police state no matter how much you assert it.
Why do lying piles of slimy TDS-addled shit lie so obviously?
This was retarded the first time buddy.
Maybe you should go out and fuck with ICE. See what happens.
I'm firmly in the pro "not hitting people with cars" side. You do you though.
"Calls an accelerating car barely moving"
A Honda Pilot takes over a second to go from zero to eight miles an hour. Look at the video, count the number of frames , and do the math.
He could have walked out of harm's way.
8 mph with a car can never hurt someone said the retard. Just ignore the two instances above.
Fuck off and die, shitstain. And take your lying, fake website with you.
But it did end the threat, so there's that.
A lot more threats will soon need to be ended, thanks to the democrats.
Okay circus boy, release film at 11 of your amazing capabilities that you describe being possible that police officers should all possess.
Stand in front of an SUV with a psycho lesbian at the wheel, have her floor it at you. You better hope the SUV spins the tires as happened or you are seriously injured or dead.
When being assaulted typically people react in defence, if they have a gun they will reach for the gun. Police pull their gun when trying to stop someone as an automatic reaction, being a law enforcement officer.
In your infinite wisdom at no time did you think if this lesbian wasn't being a gaslit fool then this incident would not have occurred and she would be alive?
Play with fire you are going to get burnt. This was not a coincidence of right place/wrong time. They purposely put themselves in this situation by their own freewill.
To other than TDS-addled lying piles of steaming shit, the video is conclusive.
Post the other video leading up to it when she says I don't have a problem with you....TrumpDickSucker
In this video did you see her trying ot leave when a silver SUV speeds around her?
Fuck off and die, TDS-addled slimy pile of lying shit.
The only relevant fact is she drove into AND HIT an officer dumbfuck. Democrats lie. If someone shoots you and says im not aiming at you, it doesnt change the fucking action.
Democrats are the dumbest mother fuckers on the planet.
And they have to go. This country cannot survive their continued presence.
You present a dangerously high level of cognitive dissonance. Seek help
This the most js;dr of all js;dr
Its Rittenhouse 2.0. Another shameful time in reasons history.
Rittenhouse was more incredible from several perspectives. Definitely a textbook case of FAFO. These women couldn't look more retarded if they were in Yellowstone shouting "You want to come at us? I say you go get yourself some lunch big boy." while taunting a buffalo.
Also definitely puts on full display the fact that all the past calls about "Police need to de-escalate." and "We need more mental health professionals to handle specialized crises." is really just "We want people who will be even more compliant and suffer our abuse when we take a bigger shit on them."
I vote we focus on the real issue. Harsh but true: No one gives a rat patoot about this woman. The real issue is open borders.
If instead of ICE agents these were IRS agents cracking down on small businesses owners there'd be silence on the Left (though Reason would still be angry).
The left needs to be put down.
Post the other video leading up to it when she says I don't have a problem with you....
He did. It's the second video. I see evidence collection is difficult for you but that doesn't prove anything beyond the fact that she didn't intend to commit murder. Wreckless endangerment, fleeing the scene, resisting arrest, hitting a pedestrian/assaulting an officer, etc., etc., etc., all of which happened after she said she didn't have a problem, are still plausibly on the table.
Again, accidents happen, both parties being equally guilty, sentence waived for time served, etc., etc., etc. are all completely viable court outcomes. The only people who have a problem with that are the retards who want to see ICE agents get run over and activists and immigrants get shot.
"...I see evidence collection is difficult for you..."
Steaming piles of TDS-addled lying hist are immune to reality.
"she didn't intend to commit murder."
It only shows her asserting that she doesn't intend to harm them. That was before she and her passenger escalated the incident further. She was clearly lying about not having a problem with ICE, though.
I have watched all the videos posted in the article and comments. The silver SUV you keep talking about passes her before the ICE agents even got out of their SUV and demanded to she get out of the vehicle. Stop lying.
With the new video: sounds like the only person telling her to drive was the wife. The cops were telling her to get the fuck out of the car. Instead she decided to flee, at best being indifferent as to whether she'd hit the cop standing in front of her. Which she did in fact do. We've now got two videos clearly showing it happen.
Complete stupidity and now she's dead, the officer's screwed, the country is probably screwed and, to add insult to injury, Jacob Sullum has decided to weigh in.
If we were to assign percentage blame for this epic disaster, any percentage below 90% for the woman who died is absurd. She had to wake up that day and do at least a dozen unthinkably stupid things in order to get herself killed. She could have gotten herself killed simply trying to block an icy road.
It’s a real shame what was done to that officer who was forced to shoot the rabid democrat maniac.
"Stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death. There is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without pity.” - Heinlein
Imagine a fucking Libertarian being pro cop and police state.
In your video did you see her trying to leave when a silver SUV speeds around her? ICE created the threat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiA6LwgYf0Y
Saying the same stupid thing over and over isn’t helping your cause.
Why do TDS-addled steaming piles of lying shit chose handles like this asswipe?
Fuck off and die.
This poor bot needs a reboot.
So retarded you've cut and paste this 6 times.
When retards spiral.
"when a silver SUV speeds around her?"
What do the cops say to you when you complain that everyone else was speeding too?
Got it. Everything must be judged through an ideological lens. The facts of the case be damned.
Boy, this ASHTIFA Babbitt case is really popping off...
And with all the democrat vitriol there are sure to be many more incidents like this, I suspect the democrat civil war is almost upon us.
It appears to be escalating.
These beta boys feel threatened by their own bathroom mirrors. Thus the masks. They’re threatened by Yorkies, pregnant women and small children. Thus they must travel in packs.
I suggest they go to a real doctor and not an MAHA quack and get some emergency treatment for Low T. Stat. Alternatively they can try Tucker Carlson’s approach to more manliness and nuke their cajones in the microwave using the popcorn setting. Though I can’t see that it has helped Tucker much. He’s still afraid of Jews and brown people.
Cunt, you gotta shut the fuck up.
M’kay?
Lol. Good shit man.
I really hope they start a civil war, so we can get rid of them all.
You typed this from your mom's basement I bet.
Was it irrational for Laken Hope Riley to be afraid of brown people?
Hey fucker, go shake hands with the cartel member who just finished raping a child and killed a pregnant woman and buy some cocaine. Let the thug dealer know when ICE is coming to arrest him so he gets away and you can signal how you thwarted ICE and became a hero.
Show us all how amazing your high levels of testosterone makes you a real man.
Yeah fuck you sitting protected behind your keyboard sipping on your soy latte dreaming of having a set of balls.
There's a high testosterone lesbian who lost her lover available to join you shouting down law enforcement, tell them big boys to stand down and go home hero.
The first shot fired was at a close angle to the officer with his hand on the door, right next to the victim. Endangering his fellow officer shows he was emotionally upset.
Isn't leaving the scene of a crime, a crime?
You got ‘em Phil8656!
I have voted and donated against the violence of kleptocracy law for four decades. But thim that voted against rights and for piracy and murder sure got themselves their mess of Christian National Socialism. The difference is that production and trade are the new Jews targeted for extermination.
You are so pathetic. Please stay away from the cartel stash houses and don't rape a child today.
Maybe go play in traffic. Be a leftist psycho hero, stop law enforcement from doing their jobs. Go ahead, FAFO, threaten them, maybe even try and run them over. Stand up against the delusional kleptocracy and Christian white nationalist that's eating your brain.
Another F trigonometry student. My god. Make the stupid stop.
"I dont know why he didnt get out his protractor and go frame by frame in the <1-1 second that the vehicle *that hit him* started accelerating towards him"
Sheesh!
That officer was off the car by the time it hit the other officer.
Tunnel vision in a stressful conflict. See threat: oppose threat. Everything else becomes irrelevant to the immediate threat and is lost to perception.
You can say Good was in a similar position, but she created the situation and escalated to a physical conflict.
Before the Jesus Caucus turned the LP into a Hitlerjugend for frustrated YAFfers, politicians had to think about LP votes costing them their sinecures and pension funds. Now it's open season for global murders again, just like in 1932.
Shit is so bad for you, the evil swimming around in you head, I'm amazed you haven't jumped out of a window yet.
Hey Sullum, you know that "legal observer" is not an actual thing, right?
Oh really…? You’re saying that is not legal to observe what is happening on public property…?
LMFAO @ Carl- stupid is as stupid posts.
You are an observer until you engage. You then become a legal participant. Looks like she fell into that category of her own volition.
Actually, it does. Since that is what the court and police will be relying on to make that determination.
'legal observer' just means 'bystander'.
This is what passes for legal analysis on Reason - They have actual lawyers at Volokh but they insist on Sullum and Boehm jumping in even though their legal experience was reading the Wiki article on use of force.
Somehow these "legal observers" are always activists and typically involved in the same illegal or borderline actions as the agitators. Using neutral terminology for them is a continuation of their propaganda. It should be surprising that Reason so consistently prints left-wing propaganda, but their track record has established this as their norm
I have a relative on FB (retarded cousin) who has probably 5 times referenced someone being "Kirk'd" that is completely losing his shit over this.
Just to say these people have no morals. I regret that ASHTIFA babbit (love the name, thanks rick james) got killed, she should just be in prison, or mocked. Not dead.
"But the evidence so far does not definitively resolve the issue of whether the shots Ross fired as the car moved away from him were legally justified, which hinges on whether he reasonably believed he was in danger at that point, even if that belief may have been mistaken."
Rather obtuse take. By the audio of multiple different videos, all 3 shots were within the span of .5 to .7 seconds, if the first shot was justified then no court is going to try to second guess two additional shots at whatever angle over the next half second.
If Sullam can't narrate while watching the video full speed exactly when the next shot was no longer justified then he doesn't have a point. He can't talk that fast? When he already knows what he wants to say, and at what point after he has watched the video 10x in slow motion? Well neither could the ICE officer.
If I tried to.make my own determination then I would say his shot at 41.2 of the ICE officers video was justified, and at 41.45 seconds he was no longer justified.
That's the determination and timeframe he is asking prosecutor, judge, and jury to make, and its just as ridiculous as it sounds.
Thank you for establishing the impact speed to be between 4 and 5 miles an hour.
You realize that large vehicles don't have a single uniform acceleration, right?
No. Public Asswipe is entirely too stupid to understand anything with numbers.
It is a coincidence of truly epic proportion how every observer’s conclusion about the legality of the shooting track, a purely factual issue, with that person’s pre-existing political position.
Even my own: I am ambivalent about ICE’s huge expansion and I am ambivalent about the shooting.
Hmmm.
See? "There are no absolutes" implies there is no objective reality, hence no clearly recorded facts. Brainwashing children into believing that a mythical figure shook the maggots out of Lazarus and invited him to dinner later on has to result in damaged minds. Virgin births and Turin shrouds, unverifiable immortality and threats of torture are what organized mysticism has been based on for over two millennia. The same ghouls who feigned horror at Julius Streicher, Ernst vom Rath and Charlie Cartman getting just desserts are giggling up their sleeves.
seek help
You should check the vids.
Without question, the shooting was justified.
The only question left to answer is, how many pieces of silver does it take to buy Reason's integrity.
A libertarian would know that ad hominems are not an argument. Yet that all you’ve got. “You must have TDS!!!” The fashies on this page define treason as protesting Trump and his secret police.
Not even the most newbie of libertarians would come close to making that huge of an error.
Oh, and MAGAs are not individualists, let alone rugged ones. They’re collectivists who worship the government and its armed enforcers.
I know being a libertarian sounds cooler than being a beta minion bootlicker but you’re not fooling anyone. Just admit who and what you are. To thine own self be true, and all that.
You first.
I think your story starts at birth. You were the chosen one over your twin sister to survive. The one that was removed from life because she was female and would burden the family and put it beyond the allowed quota has haunted you.
Hurry, you are running out of your allotted time on the internet today.
I was originally on the officer's side, but the officer's cell phone video is damning. The woman was clearly driving away from him and there was clearly no danger of his being run over. Guilty. Death penalty.
Are you high?
Observe: the narc bares its government teeth.
You're lying. Either you haven't seen the video or you are lying about what it shows. Even if you assume the angles of it are misleading, the video looks like full justification of a good shoot.
You must be full of dick.
About the DOJ policy cited by Sullum
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/about-that-doj-policy-on-the-use-of-force/
Note that the second criteria renders the first one moot - if you try to flee but are about to run into people, you're a threat to others. You can't just shoot into a truck speeding at a free way as you chase him from 10 feet behind.
Let's consider the "totality" of the situation. This woman was effectively committing obstruction on justice on law enforcement officers and was directing the effort. She put other lives at risk. At that point, you have to assume hostile intentions, more than if she was accused of shoplifting.
Imagine officers arriving at a house to arrest someone on human trafficking charge, and his spouse blocks the road and disobeys orders to exit the car. Just forget about ICE, politics, Trump and immigration for a moment. Would you not consider the spouse as a threat? Even if the officers did not have warrant and is about to violate someone's rights, can they not order the individual to stand down?
These officers weren't standing directly in front of the car. One of them forced his hand inside the stop the women from turning the steering wheel (or shifting to D). The other one was approaching from the left side.
No one baited or caused panic on this woman to do what she did. The command to exit was clear and she had plenty of time to do it. They wife was taunting the police officers to "eat some lunch big boy" and insisted "we change the plates everyday". Then she told her wife to "drive baby drive"
No confusion. No mishap. She didn't speed away at the first sign of cops approaching her, which would meet the traditional definition of "fleeing". That didn't happen here. If there were two kids on a bike situated exactly where these officers were, at least one of them would be roadkill as she revved forward. Sane human beings do not suddenly accelerate when there are people THAT close to their cars.
I was stopped at roadblocks and were instructed by officers at window side on where to go. Miraculously he survived. If for some WILD reason I decided to "flee", anyone with 3 feet of my hood would have cause to shoot me.
I'll assume JD did not yet see all the video footage. But good journalism would include at least some updates.
I am willing to accept that she had no intent to hit the officer. But she was being reckless. And she was directly violating a legal order for her to exit the vehicle.
I could plausibly see the case going against the officer here.
BUT
For fucks sake people. You need to calm down. If you are on the left and saying anything other than, "Hey look- if you obstruct police and then try to recklessly flee from the scene, you are likely to be shot. Maybe it will be ruled a 'bad shoot' but you will still be dead and your kid will still grow up without his mom."
If you are saying anything other than that, you are a chicken hawk hoping deluded people spill there blood for your political gain.
Well sculpted presentation Jacob.
What can one add?
The case is only a federal case in terms of jurisdiction? Could the state file suit against the Federal government in the name of one of his resident's rights being infringed upon by a Federal law enforcement officer?
Is the FBI potentially helpful in excluding the state of Minnesota from the investigation?
Under the above cited State laws, obviously, I believe more responsibility lies on the officer under SCOTUS interpretations only. But "reasonably objective" determinations as a standard still carries with it individuals judgement subjectivity.
Interestingly, threats can emerge suddenly. Obviously, as the agent films the car and protagonists, he is mostly focused on referential consolidation, therefore he clearly doesn't perceive any potential threat at that moment or or attempting to determine them. Was he already familiar with these two activist-protagonists. We read that Good was on ICE watch list.
This is an important determination as to when did the apparent threat emerge... apparently, from our standpoint, with the information we have, only when the vehicle initiated its move sideways as Good had already oriented her wheels out of the vector of Ross (who had still not touched his weapon). Her intent is to flee, not harm.
We clearly view in Ross video he is seeing her turn the wheel. How objectively did this information sink in him?
Premeditation in law is not a minimum set of time... it can be as short as an "instant" prior to the act... were all 3 shots made with premeditation... only the last 2, only one or none? Which shot caused death?
We won't know for a long while.
...But this being a Federal case, will it turn into an opportunity to get SCOTUS to take position on the "total immunity" of police officers... a cause dear to the Emperor.
People pouring over footage from multiple angles for hours passing a judgement of "guilty" for someone that only had his POV and a couple of seconds at most to decide what to do about the situation is "fairness".
She panicked at the prospect of being arrested and recklessly tried to escape and drove through the officer in front of her. He reflexively responded to the danger. It is a tragic circumstance that was caused by her doing something she should not have done in first place putting herself in harm's way.
The pro unrestricted immigration crowd now has a bloody shirt to wave, which they seem all too happy to exploit for their cause.
There is zero right to obstruction.
Simple enough. When JFK was shot through the throat from the military canvas-tarped truck stopped next to a since-removed sign on Commerce, the feds made off with the corpse in violation of Texas law. Arlen Specter then leapt to the defense of the Republican Party by threatening the doctors into denying plane geometry that says that bullets shot from 6 floors up have a downward trajectory. The first shot traveled in a level plane.
There is plenty of blame to go around here. It seems to me if we are going to apply a standard to law enforcement officers that they should not create situations requiring the use of deadly force, then we should apply the same standard to Ms. Good. There can be no doubt that if she had not put herself in the situation that resulted in her death then she would still be alive.
There you go! Six million people could have escaped being executed by Christian National Socialists by NOT being Jews in the first place. The police unions sending hordes of new sockpuppets here to play Julius Streicher and save their Gestapo buddy. Chauvin is prolly begging Orange Hitler for a pardon so he can join the affray!
How very brave of you to post such lies and vitriolic hate posts hiding behind a keyboard.
Hey look, it's Godwin's law people.
She'd also still be alive if Democrats weren't encouraging confrontations as part of their cosplay. Their extremism is getting people killed.
The Trump regime can’t get enough plastic surgery to perform on State TV for Trump and his beta boys. Hegseth even put a makeup room in the Pentagon.
Speaking of cosplaying:
MAGAs: We need guns to protect ourselves from government tyranny.
Also MAGAs: It is unpatriotic to criticize the government’s enforcers (police) when they abuse power and wantonly kill people.
Liberals: The government has a history of racism, oppression, violation of rights, and abuse of power.
Also Liberals: Only the government’s enforcers (police) should have guns.
Libertarians: The government has a history of racism, oppression, violation of rights, and abuse of power.
Also Libertarians: We need guns to protect ourselves from government tyranny.
Secretary Noem is mistaken about jurisdiction in this case. In every OIS involving a Federal agent of which I am aware, state or local authorities exercised concurrent jurisdiction. I can seen no good reason to depart from that practice.
The hinge to the question of justification is "reasonableness." A belief may be both reasonable and mistaken at the same time. And remember that there are limits to human performance which are critical to this and every other OIS.
It's called the OODA Loop. (Observe, orient, decide, act.) The officer must observe that the suspect is no longer threat, orient his decision-making to it, decide to stop or never begin firing, and act on that decision. This takes a minimum of a couple of seconds. When you look at the video in real time, it's questionable whether Good had enough time to even observe that the the vehicle (and therefore driver) might no longer be a threat. Since he had already initiated the firing sequence, there's probably no way he could have stopped, given the limits of human performance.
Cops are not superhuman.
Murderers usually aren't. It's why thinking people learned to tie nooses and build trapdoors.
Did anyone else notice the collectivist killer was wearing a Charlie Kirk jugend haircut?
"Video of the Minneapolis ICE Shooting Does Not Resolve the Issue of Whether It Was Legally Justified"
Yes, to anyone not a TDS-addled lying pile of steaming shit like Sullum, it shows clearly that he feared for his life and acted accordingly.
Fuck off and die, asswipe.
I blame pubic awareness.
The main steam media should be reporting on the 10's of 1000's if not 100's of 1000's of children saved from abuse and death by the ICE operations.
And the child abuses/pedo's arrested.
Then show the victims of the murderers and the the numbers of illegal violent criminals and murderers removed.
Then show the before and after crime stats for all locations that fed law enforcement especially DHS and ICE assisted by the National guard crime rate reductions due to their actions.
N.n.N.: The MSM is an arm of the totalitarian regime.
You want the truth? "You can't handle the truth!" You worship "The Powers That Shouldn't Be". That is the superstition that endangers the existence of our species, that warps your cognition.
It might warp yours perhaps.
I'm just looking for positiveness and the truth to be told.
An end to the evil controlling the media that is gaslighting the average sheeple into thinking that following their feelings and their democrat leaders and tossing common sense and observed reality witnessed by their own eyes aside, is the way forward.
There is no one so controlled by feeeelings than Donald J Trump, whose rage-fests and “policies” are 100% determined by his whims of the moment and whether someone likes him enough and sucks up to him enough. Second in line for being ruled by their feeelings is his MAGA cult, who go whichever way Trump’s feeelings go, meaning they have to change their mind on “policy” at least a dozen times a day. Most of these supposedly “antiwar” MAGAs are now fully on board with wars of aggression and regime change.
Anyone with a brain in their head could see that the power and violent retribution obsessed Trump was never, ever a “peace president.”
"The crucial question is whether the agent reasonably believed the driver he killed posed a threat, even if she was not actually trying to run him over."
WTF does that even mean? What other threat could she have posed?
The other crucial question is: did the officer intentionally put himself in harm's way? It certainly appears that he did. See: Barnes v. Felix, 605 U.S. 73.
He walked around a non-moving car.
No, he did not "put himself in harm's way".
It's like blaming a woman who is sexually assaulted because she drank a drink that she did not know was drugged.
Govt. employee: "What? You resist my command? I kill you!"
This is officially condoned by the courts, e.g., "Q.I.", i.e., laws for thee (citizens), not for me (govt.). In other words, "We make, enforce, judge, and justify our laws, our political paradigm of totalitarianism."
Got a problem with that? Maybe you shouldn't have allowed all that military buildup. EVERY govt. that ever was has eventually used the military AGAINST the citizens who paid for it. The first time was 1793, against the whiskey tax protesters. Still vote? Still salute?
You know, with the Good killing, the Left ended up bring correct:
It IS funny to mock somebody who was shot in the neck and killed.
It's only funny to you because the woman killed was white. Had she been black you'd be scared shitless of a reprise of the uprisings in 2020, which, along with his non response to COVID put an end to Trump's electoral chances that year.
The fact that your response to a government goon shooting to death a white American citizen is to mock her only underscores once again the bankruptcy of a white power movement. Had she been black it would be open season on ICE and their MAGA stooges.
Leftist gets caught in a Woke cognitive dissonance loop over anti-ICE activist's death.
"She showed up to protest ICE and mourn the sad death of anti-ICE loon Renee Nicole Good, was interviewed by a journalist, and then, as she began to wrestle with her own whiteness, this chick gloriously malfunctioned on TV for our viewing pleasure."
"'I don't know if it's the right thing to do. It feels kind of wrong being here in some way, I don't know why ... I mean part of it is being like a white woman, that... I'm privileged, that I have a lot of privilege. Um, so I feel like white tears are not always something that's helpful or necessary. Um, black and brown people have been experiencing this for a long time. Um, this isn't new for them, and so, um, I don't know if that makes any sense.'"
https://notthebee.com/article/insane-leftist-karen-says-she-feels-wrong-mourning-woman-shot-by-ice-agents-because-she-was-white?from_social=twitter
"Leftist gets caught in a Woke cognitive dissonance loop over anti-ICE activist's death."
There are some 500 million firearms in the hands of American civilians. The last thing you want to see is Leftists breaking out of the cognitive dissonance loop they find themselves in.
I normally don't like the "you're lying," "no you're lying!" back and forth. But this here is just a egregious, deliberate, unquestionable mega lie. I mean WTF?
Adam Schiff: "This 37 year old woman drops her kid off at school. Not involved in protest activity or anything. Seems to be in the wrong place at the wrong time."
https://x.com/WesternLensman/status/2010090013204328686
Forget about the murder, someone lied!