The Law That Disarmed Trump Is Unfair, Illogical, and Constitutionally Dubious
The president-elect lost his Second Amendment rights thanks to a nonsensical gun ban.

President-elect Donald Trump's sentence of "unconditional release" for violating a New York law that prohibits falsification of business records entails neither jail nor probation. But unless Trump successfully challenges his 34 felony convictions on appeal, he will suffer a lifelong penalty that should trouble civil libertarians across the political spectrum.
Because Trump's convictions involved crimes that were notionally punishable by more than a year of incarceration, they made him subject to a federal law that bars him from possessing firearms. That law is unfair, illogical, and constitutionally dubious because it deprives Americans of their Second Amendment rights even when they have no history of violence.
Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg's case against Trump was based on a vague, convoluted, and highly questionable legal theory aimed at punishing conduct that was not inherently criminal: trying to conceal his 2016 nondisclosure agreement with porn star Stormy Daniels. But even if you think the prosecution was justified, the allegations underlying it provide no reason to believe Trump is prone to gun violence.
The same could be said of many other state and federal crimes that nevertheless trigger the loss of the constitutional right to armed self-defense, such as mail fraud, securities fraud, theft of fishing gear, driving under the influence, perjury, embezzlement, obstruction of justice, nonviolent drug offenses, and gun possession by cannabis consumers. As UCLA law professor Adam Winkler observes, this category of "prohibited persons" is "wildly overinclusive," encompassing a long list of crimes that are "not violent in the least."
People who fall into that category face up to 15 years in prison if they dare to exercise their Second Amendment rights. They also can face additional charges that raise the combined maximum penalties to nearly half a century.
The law that forced Trump to give up his guns is of relatively recent vintage. Congress approved it in 1961 as an amendment to the Federal Firearms Act of 1938, which included a ban on gun possession that originally applied only to people convicted of violent crimes such as murder, manslaughter, rape, kidnapping, and robbery.
That expansion looks newly vulnerable in light of the 2022 Supreme Court decision that said gun restrictions pass constitutional muster only if they are "consistent with this Nation's historical tradition of firearm regulation." Applying that test in 2023, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 3rd Circuit restored the gun rights of a Pennsylvania man who had understated his income so he could qualify for food stamps.
"At root, the Government's claim that only 'law-abiding, responsible citizens' are protected by the Second Amendment devolves authority to legislators to decide whom to exclude from 'the people'" whose right to "keep and bear arms" is constitutionally guaranteed, Judge Thomas Hardiman wrote in the majority opinion. "We reject that approach because such 'extreme deference gives legislatures unreviewable power to manipulate the Second Amendment by choosing a label.'"
Last May, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit overturned the firearm conviction of a California man who was prohibited from owning guns because of prior convictions for nonviolent offenses. In defending the "sweeping, no-exception, lifelong ban" that the defendant violated, the court said, the government had failed to cite a "well-established and representative historical analogue" that "impose[d] a comparable burden on the right of armed self-defense" and was "comparably justified."
Since the Supreme Court announced that test, several other appeals courts have rejected Second Amendment challenges to prosecutions under this law or to the ban itself. Dissenting in the 9th Circuit case, Judge Milan D. Smith Jr. predicted that the Supreme Court will address that split "sooner, rather than later."
The resolution of this dispute may not ultimately matter for Trump, who has several promising arguments for overturning his New York convictions and in any event will receive armed, taxpayer-funded protection as a current and former president. But it could provide long-overdue relief for millions of Americans who have unjustly and unreasonably lost their Second Amendment rights.
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Wow, Sullum is applying the concept of "principle" even to Trump!
Astonishing.
I mean, I agree that the law is unconstitutional, I'm just shocked he's extending it that far.
Wow, Sullum is applying the concept of "principle" even to Trump!
It's not principle. The facts have been distorted and consequences obliterated to the point that he feels can don his "How do you do fellow libertarians?" garb and not get called out on it.
We've witnessed him routinely shed his skin for almost 8 yrs. around this place, why would you assume this is some sort of principle rather than obvious predatory or self-preservation instinct?
Gulp gulp. This article doesn’t exist. Gulp gulp.
*burp*
Dis yous hear what Trumph said about furners! Frigin nazi.
*burp*
Yes, Trump said that all o' that them thar furners should be hung, right alongside Mike Pence, and then after they are hung, they should all be forced to commit suicide! 'Cause Jesus told Trump that encouraging suicide is WONDERFUL, even PERVFECTED, Theology! (Jesus in this case being PervFectly Personified in and through ML The Marxist Moose-Mammary-Necrophiliac from Inner-Outer Islamic Canuckistanistanistanistan.)
Accurate. Needs more being s victim.
6/10
Not quite shrill and angry enough either. But a good start.
Having forfeited his right to keep and bear arms. will the President embrace his duty as the nation's ethical exemplar, and recuse himself from serving as Commander In Chief ?
Wow, this IS beyond strange!!! The Emperor can Cummand a multi-gigaton nuclear attack, but may SNOT own a handgun!
(The simple fix may be for His wife and-or Queen-Concubine Spermy Daniels to "own" all of the firearms in the White House.)
Interesting point.
No, it is not. It is stupid and petty. You only claim to find it interesting because it reinforces your TDS.
Sarc is principled like that. He thinks someone should lose rights because of a political circus trial where a legal expense written down as a legal expense is 34 felonies.
Still waiting for the day when you accidentally say something honest. Not holding my breath though.
Poor sarc.
What he said is 100% true. He’s not a drunken, lying shitweasel, like you.
It's interesting that someone legally barred from owning firearms can command the most powerful military in the world.
Maybe someone, anyone, can show me in the 2A where a citizen can ever have his/her right to keep and bear arms "forfeited".
Can you point to the spot in the Constitution that makes entire families eligible for kidnapping and deportation for failure to have their papers in order?
Protecting our sovereign border and immigration control are duties of the federal government. Removing illegals is a part of that. But we know how much you hate the constitution.
I can point to Constitutional laws that prohibit the same families from entering the US in the first place.
Simply entering means they are trespassing. What do you do to someone caught trespassing or squatting on your property? You forcibly remove them from your property and place them where they belong.
There is no way to read it that does not expressly allow Congress the power to control migration to the United States after 1808. Notice that every other item in section 9 is a power expressly prohibited to the federal government at all times. This is the only prohibition that has an expiration date, which is evidence it is intended to be a granted power after that date. The courts already recognized the power to expel unwanted visitors as inherent to any sovereign country. It is practically the definition of sovereignty.
Being convicted of a crime. You don't have a right to keep and bear arms while you're incarcerated. There's some logic in requiring you keep to those conditions as a condition of parole, since parole is also part of your sentence, if you committed a violent crime.
In this case, however, there's no violent crime and the sentence is "unconditional release," except there's oddly some kind of condition attached to it. So the whole thing is bullshit, built on a creative construction of law that requires an underlying crime which can't be charged and might not be a crime. Arguing that Trump committed election interference was just the DA's way of punishing him for having won an election.
I am aware of all of the "justifiable" infringements place on the 2A, but they are still infringements.
I'll concede to losing your rights while incarcerated, but not after release. If you can't be trusted with a gun, you should remain incarcerated.
Even the incarcerated have weapons. They even have ominous nicknames for prison weapons.
You still have some basic rights while incarcerated, but clearly not all of them, since you don't have actual freedom. It shouldn't be controversial that murderers aren't allowed to take their stash of firearms into the prison with them.
Probably one of the least constitutional laws ever passed. Once they decided government can strip citizens of their rights for "the right reason" there was a constant convoy of trucks outside congress full of reasons. And if it works for one right it works for every right, like the fight over speech right now.
^
Most of the people screeching about restoring felons right to vote NEVER utter a peep about restoring felons' 2A rights.
The legal system is slowly evolving - perhaps by design, more likely through cultural failure - towards a situation where the number of people who have some kind of 'mark' on their 'permanent record' is continuously increasing. Eventually, if the trend is not interrupted, there will be a point where the number of people who actually have complete rights - not impeded by this or that 'record' - will be a minority.
At last count it was estimated that we have some 380,000 federal laws and regulations; these are so intertwined and convoluted that it is not possible to make any accurate count of them.
I believe we are way past the point of "show me the man and I'll show you the crime."
We need a Constitutional amendment that states that no law can be passed without a sunset clause with a maximum of 25 years. If Congress can't bring itself to reauthorize a law over the course of a generation, the law should not be on the books.
We need a Constitutional amendment that bars Congress from delegating its lawmaking power to executive alphabet agencies. Or better yet we need to Constitutionally ban executive alphabet agencies.
“Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.”
And one of the many reasons why that law is nonsensical is that it can - as it did in this case - screw over an innocent person attacked by deranged politicians determined to press home a frankencharge bill of attainder as an act of naked partisan political lawfare.
But Trump is Bad and Orange, so it's rude to mention that part here.
I wonder why all the deranged politicians are on the Dem side.
It's (D)ifferent.
And that was all that was wrong with any of these investigations. - sullum
"But unless Trump successfully challenges his 34 felony convictions on appeal . . . "
He almost certainly will.
They’ll be overturned. It’s just a matter of when.
It's a bad law. If such a deprivation of rights is legitimate it should only apply for genuinely (and not merely definitionally) violent crimes. Trump's being a non-violent criminal should hence not stop him from KBA.
(I noted on the VC pages that similar principles apply to voting rights. Oddly, some people weren't happy with that.)
Based on you calling him a criminal...
I take it you support the trial shrike?
There's nothing odd about Trump defenders having no principles.
You’re a drunken leftist liar. You have no principals, or decency. Just raging alcoholism and your hatred of Trump.
Ideas!
Well, I agree with you, that if it applies at all, it should only apply to people convicted of violent felonies.
We should also probably look into seriously restraining which crimes are considered a felony.
We should also probably look into seriously restraining which crimes are considered a felony.
Definitely. It seems the modern trend - particularly from those on the "crack down on crime" brigade" - is to have more acts that can be counted as felonies, and I suspect that part of it is that it makes it easier for plea bargaining.
The Law That Disarmed Trump Is Unfair, Illogical, and Constitutionally Dubious
Should be.
The Law That Convicted Trump Is Unfair, Illogical, and Constitutionally Dubious
Which you seem to know sullum.
You completely and totally support disarming felons, as long as they're not Trump.
Good to know.
Stop lying, you drunken retard.
In Sullum's "defense" he also thought the law barring Hunter Biden from owning a firearm for lying when clearly asked about it apriori and in accordance with the actions of his father was unfair too. Didn't raise a peep the other 300 some times a year for decades it was used against other people but, you know, once an upstanding and law abiding politically-affiliated paragon of human virtue like Hunter Biden brought it to his attention, then he *knew* it wasn't fair.
President-elect Donald Trump's sentence of "unconditional release" for violating a New York law
Yeah, it's the gun-law that's the outrage here.
Technically, by broad admission and consensus he violated a post hoc novel legal construction, but what's a little lawfare among people we're winnowing down to just shooting solutions?
"...crimes that were notionally punishable by more than a year of incarceration ..."
Since some of those crimes shouldn't be crimes in the first place; and since the Federal government should have absolutely no jurisdiction over gun ownership within the several states anyway; the Supreme Court should strike down the Federal law SOONER (rather than later!)
Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg should be charged, convicted, and disbarred for a targeted politically motivated attack against a person simply because of how he twisted the law.
New York Judge Juan Merchan who allowed this farce to continue, should be reprimanded, removed from the bench and disbarred.
I don't even like Trump, but these two deserve to pay deeply for their corrupt tactics and political motivations than violate their oaths.