Dallas Voters Nix an All-Purpose Excuse for Police Harassment: 'I Smelled Marijuana'
The ballot initiative says a whiff of weed does not establish probable cause for a search or seizure, which was already doubtful in light of hemp legalization.

The U.S. Supreme Court recently agreed to hear a case involving a Texas police officer, Roberto Felix Jr., who shot and killed a motorist, Ashtian Barnes, after stopping him for toll violations tied to the rental car he was driving. The issue in Barnes v. Felix is whether that use of deadly force, which happened after Felix leaped onto the car as Barnes began driving away, should be assessed based solely on "the moment of the threat" or based on an analysis that includes the circumstances that produced the threat. But another detail of the encounter reflects the role that the purported odor of marijuana plays in police stops that may lead to humiliating searches, cash seizures, arrests, or, as in this case, potentially lethal violence.
When Felix asked Barnes for his driver's license and proof of insurance, a federal judge noted in 2021, "Barnes informed him that he did not have his license and that he had rented the vehicle a week earlier in his girlfriend's name." Barnes started "reaching around the vehicle and rummaging through papers." Felix told him to stop "digging around" and "asked Barnes whether he had anything in the vehicle he should know about, claiming he smelled marijuana." Although a search conducted after Felix killed Barnes found no marijuana, the alleged odor helped escalate the encounter, indicating that Felix suspected Barnes of criminal activity as well as toll violations.
A ballot initiative that Dallas voters overwhelmingly approved this week aims to avoid such escalation. In addition to generally barring local police from arresting people for marijuana possession misdemeanors, Proposition R says "Dallas police shall not consider the odor of marijuana or hemp to constitute probable cause for any search or seizure." That seemingly modest restriction undercuts an excuse that in practice gives cops the discretion to stop, harass, and search pretty much anyone by claiming to smell pot.
Proposition R reflects an ongoing controversy over marijuana odor and probable cause. In states that have legalized marijuana for medical or recreational use, some courts have held that the smell of cannabis, whether detected by a human or a police dog, can no longer justify a search, since it does not necessarily constitute evidence of a crime. And while Texas has not legalized marijuana for any use, it has legalized hemp, which comes from the same plant species and cannot be distinguished from marijuana without a laboratory test to measure THC content.
In 2019, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott signed House Bill 1325, which changed the state's definition of "marihuana" to exclude "hemp, as that term is defined by Section 121.001" of the Texas Agriculture Code. Consistent with federal law, Section 121.001 defines "hemp" as "the plant Cannabis sativa L. and any part of that plant, including the seeds of the plant and all derivatives, extracts, cannabinoids, isomers, acids, salts, and salts of isomers, whether growing or not, with a delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol concentration of not more than 0.3 percent on a dry weight basis."
The difference between legal "hemp" and prohibited "marihuana," in other words, is the THC concentration, which cannot be measured by smell or even by a field test. "Before H.B. 1325," Dallas attorney Jon McCurley notes, "marijuana's distinct and readily recognizable odor often [led] law enforcement to believe that a criminal act was occurring." But after H.B. 1325, "simply detecting the odor of marijuana may not be enough to justify a search or seizure under the Fourth Amendment because in order to search or get a warrant, law enforcement officials must have probable cause that a crime has been committed or is about to be committed."
Police are "trained to recognize marijuana," a College Station, Texas, police officer told the CBS affiliate in Bryan after H.B. 1325 was enacted. "Coming from someone who's been around hemp as well, they are very similar. They look the same; they smell the same."
The law enforcement complications created by hemp legalization went beyond the justification for searches. After H.B. 1325 passed, Harris County District Attorney Kim Ogg, whose jurisdiction includes Houston, the state's biggest city, said her office would no longer accept possession cases involving misdemeanor quantities of marijuana (less than four ounces) "without a lab test result proving that the evidence seized has a THC concentration of over .3%." She added that "felony marijuana charges will be evaluated on a case by case basis by our Office" and "in the proper instances, such charges may be taken while lab test results are pending."
Travis County District Attorney Margaret Moore, whose jurisdiction includes Austin, the state capital, said her office was dismissing 32 felony marijuana cases. "If we can't prove our case, we need to dismiss," explained Moore, who estimated that the necessary laboratory equipment would cost $185,000 and would not be up and running for eight to 12 months.
In February 2020, Steven McCraw, director of the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS), said DPS labs would soon have the ability to distinguish between hemp and marijuana by measuring THC content. But he added that "we do not accept misdemeanor cases," noting that Texas police make more than 80,000 marijuana misdemeanor arrests each year. "DPS will not have the capacity to accept those misdemeanor cases," he said.
As McCurley notes, however, the problem is not just that prosecutors cannot prove someone possessed marijuana without laboratory tests that may be prohibitively expensive in misdemeanor cases. If the odor of pot, which is the same as the odor of hemp, does not establish probable cause, it cannot justify a search or an arrest under the Fourth Amendment.
"Because of the similarities in the definitions of marihuana and hemp," a Texas appeals court noted in 2020, "the continued viability of the holding that officers and lay witnesses may identify marihuana through their senses alone may be in question." The court did not address that issue because the case involved a marijuana arrest that predated hemp legalization. But courts in other states have recognized the Fourth Amendment implications of legislation that redefines cannabis crimes.
In 2008 Massachusetts voters approved Question 2, a ballot initiative that decriminalized possession of an ounce or less of marijuana, making it a civil offense punishable by a $100 fine. In light of Question 2, the Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts ruled three years later, the smell of burnt marijuana was not sufficient justification for ordering a motorist out of his car during a traffic stop. In 2014, the court extended the logic of that decision, saying a marijuana odor by itself does not justify a car search, since a search must be based on probable cause to believe that evidence of a crime will be discovered, and one ounce or less of cannabis (a civil offense) smells the same as more than an ounce (a misdemeanor). In 2015, the court went even further, ruling that the smell of burnt marijuana cannot by itself justify a traffic stop.
Pennsylvania legalized medical marijuana in 2016. Given that change, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court held in 2021, "the odor of marijuana alone does not amount to probable cause to conduct a warrantless search of a vehicle, but, rather, may be considered as a factor in examining the totality of the circumstances."
A state appeals court reached a similar conclusion that year in Maryland, which legalized medical marijuana in 2014. "The odor of marijuana may, with other circumstances, provide reasonable suspicion that a person is involved in criminal activity," it said. But "because an officer cannot tell by the smell of marijuana alone that a person is involved in criminal activity, we hold that the odor of marijuana, by itself, does not provide reasonable suspicion to conduct an investigatory stop."
After Maryland voters approved recreational legalization in 2022, legislators made that restriction mandatory across the state. In 2023, when legalization took effect, they passed a law that prohibits police from treating the smell of cannabis as sufficient grounds for stopping or searching pedestrians or cars.
In 1976, Minnesota made marijuana possession involving no more than 42.5 grams (about 1.5 ounces) a "petty misdemeanor," meaning it was "prohibited by law" and could result in a maximum fine of $200 but did not "constitute a crime." Given the legal status of low-level marijuana possession, the Minnesota Supreme Court ruled in 2023, the smell of marijuana, by itself, "is insufficient to establish a fair probability that the search would yield evidence of criminally illegal drug-related contraband or conduct."
In that case, as in Barnes v. Felix, police claimed to smell marijuana but did not find any (although they did find methamphetamine). The possibility that cops may erroneously or dishonestly say they caught a whiff of weed underlines the importance of preventing them from stopping people or conducting searches based on nothing more than an asserted odor. That license can easily be abused.
In 2012, The Virginian-Pilot reported that Chesapeake officers "have been pulling over cars on the grounds that they smelled marijuana while cruising down local roadways." One of those cops explained how that technique supposedly worked: "We drive our patrol car with the vents on, pulling air from the outside in, directly into our faces."
In 2011, New Jersey cops impounded a BMW based on a purported "strong odor of raw marijuana" and tore it apart over the course of three weeks with the help of drug-sniffing dogs, causing more than $12,000 in damage. They did not find the marijuana they supposedly smelled or any other contraband.
Two years later, after pulling over a car for contested reasons, an Idaho state trooper opened the trunk with the driver's not-entirely-voluntary consent and, according to the resulting lawsuit, "claimed he could smell the odor of marijuana," despite "the strong gusts of wind and precipitation that day." The ensuing search of the car discovered nothing illegal. The driver's lawyer told The Denver Post his client "does not use marijuana and never has."
In 2018, the Kansas Supreme Court upheld a warrantless apartment search based on a cop's claim that she "smelled a strong odor of raw marijuana emanating from the apartment" while standing outside the front door. What police ultimately discovered was 25 grams (less than an ounce) of marijuana, which was inside a sealed plastic container, inside a locked safe, inside a bedroom closet about 30 feet from where the officer had been standing. The cops also found "a small amount of marijuana on a partially burnt cigarillo in the living room," which would have smelled like burnt marijuana, not "raw marijuana."
That same year, a Louisville, Kentucky, SWAT team terrorized an innocent family during a fruitless home invasion. The raid was based partly on "a strong smell of fresh marijuana" that a detective claimed to have noticed while standing on the front porch.
Cops, aided by their not-so-trusty dogs, commonly use the real, imagined, or invented smell of marijuana to justify outrageous invasions, including futile searches, highway and airport robbery, and roadside sexual assault. The odor of pot even figured in the 2016 death of Minnesota motorist Philando Castile, who was shot by a cop who later said the smell frightened him.
By approving Proposition R, Dallas voters have taken a step toward preventing such abuses. Texas courts should go further in light of hemp legalization by eliminating this all-purpose excuse for police harassment.
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Good.
Up next should be a ban on no knock or midnight raids on houses.
I think the judge that signs a no-knock warrant should be required to serve it himself, without body armor.
What if they do a no knock raid on sullum house?
Florida has already banned no knock raids.
idk it really sucks all the fun out of the concept if I'm not dodging the cops
It’s like having an affair. It’s all fun and exciting until everyone finds out.
lol I would have no idea about that. more like I'm driving around with a diet coke now. zero danger
Try fentanyl?
too dangerous! I only like to defy death at high speeds, but thanks.
How soon before the police claim an ability to smell crack, heroin, or cocaine instead? Getting rid of one excuse is an unqualified good thing, but it seems prudent to expect they'll just make up another.
If Trump has his way police will be able to say “I smell beans” and search the car.
Another accurate prediction from our own Nostradamus. What treat!
That seems vaguely racist…
sarcasmic, I think you meant: "I see beaners" 😉
I think "I smell beans" is funnier because you can't smell beans.
I’ve never understood the objection to the “I smelled marijuana” argument.
Look, think about it. I’m driving a car. I get pulled over. The cop says, “I smell marijuana.”
I can immediately and with absolute certainty say, “No you don’t.”
Now he might not believe me – but when his pretextual search turns up nothing, least of all marijuana, he’s the one with egg on his face.
The only people, it seems, who have a problem with this are people who use marijuana. In which case, how can they really pretend this is some kind of affront by the police when he actually DOES likely smell marijuana on a marijuana user?
It seems to me that the best way to stop police from using the “I smelled marijuana” excuse – is for everyone to stop using marijuana completely, forbid any marijuana using passengers from ever getting in your car, and to never EVER transport it. At which point, FOIA requests can be made of police traffic stop records to see how many searches are being performed on this basis, and how few of them are turning up marijuana or anything marijuana-related.
Think about it. If we just, as a society, removed the use of marijuana FROM society, the cops wouldn’t be able to use this as an excuse anymore. And that’s win/win no matter how you slice it.
And how awesome would that be from a libertarian/ACAB perspective? HA! Suck it cops, you can’t get way with some BS claim of “I smell marijuana” because none of us are using it anymore! Everyone quitting recreational drug use would stick it to the cops harder than anything we’ve done to date so far!
Seems unlikely, but dream on!
Maybe, but think about how awesome it would be to take literally every cop in America down a notch. They’re abusing this whole “I smell marijuana” thing – so everyone just STOPS using marijuana and takes it away from them.
That’d be fantastic and hilarious.
Now he might not believe me – but when his pretextual search turns up nothing, least of all marijuana, he’s the one with egg on his face.
Not really, he'll just move on with his life. What are you going to do, take him to court and prove he didn't smell what he claimed to have? All you can definitively prove is that whatever the cop claim to have smelled wasn't in your car.
The only people, it seems, who have a problem with this are people who use marijuana.
I've never used drugs and I have a problem with this. It's an excuse that the cops can use at any time to engage in a search. There are no consequences for being 'mistaken'.
Not really, he’ll just move on with his life. What are you going to do, take him to court and prove he didn’t smell what he claimed to have?
And so will I. I mean, what’s to get worked up about over here? If he pulls you over for a legitimate reason, plays this bogus “I smelled MJ” card, and then doesn’t find anything – you get to have a laugh at his expense and go on about your day.
It’s not about proving anything. It’s about calling him on his bogus claim and then having him turn up bupkis. Because if you just don’t do drugs this “tactic” will never work.
It’s an excuse that the cops can use at any time to engage in a search.
And suppose they do find some kind of non-marijuana contraband (say an unlicensed firearm) to charge you with.
“Officer, what was your basis for pulling over the vehicle?”
“OK, and after you approached my client, you claimed in your police report that you quote, ‘smelled marijuana.’”
“Did any other officer corroborate your suspicion at the time?”
“And it was allegedly this specific odor by which you asserted probable cause for a search.”
“It was at that point you found the firearm?”
“Did you find any traces of marijuana?”
“Did you test the suspect’s blood for marijuana?”
“Did you test the suspect’s clothes for marijuana residue?”
“Did you test the suspect’s vehicle upholstery for marijuana residue?”
“Did the suspect admit any marijuana use or possession?”
“So, to be clear, there was no actual evidence of marijuana or its use whatsoever beyond an olfactory suspicion that you could not link to anything even trace?”
“Your honor, motion to suppress any evidence found from the Officer’s search.”
I mean, this is easy. (Now, obviously, I’m being a little theatrical here. The more likely procedure would be to elicit all this at depo and then file the motion long before trial began. But, I wanted to provide a layman’s gist of it.)
And so will I. I mean, what’s to get worked up about over here? If he pulls you over for a legitimate reason, plays this bogus “I smelled MJ” card, and then doesn’t find anything – you get to have a laugh at his expense and go on about your day.
Except your Fourth Amendment rights will have been violated, but like whatevs, right?
It’s not about proving anything. It’s about calling him on his bogus claim and then having him turn up bupkis. Because if you just don’t do drugs this “tactic” will never work.
Barring any planted evidence, of course.
Except your Fourth Amendment rights will have been violated, but like whatevs, right?
It's not violated if he has probable cause. That's the point here, Chip. We need to take "I smell marijuana" off the table as a basis for probable cause.
The best way to do that is to eliminate as much marijuana usage as possible from society. Then nobody - especially the justice system - will believe them when they say it, because what dork still smokes dope at that point?
Barring any planted evidence, of course.
Oh shut up. You watch too much television.
Then nobody – especially the justice system – will believe them when they say it
It’s an open secret that judges and prosecutors consider police testimony to be “testilying.” Everyone in the “justice” system knows that police lie about everything. So when cops say they smelled marijuana, everyone in the court knows that, unless marijuana was found in the vehicle, the cop was lying. Judge knows. DA knows. Everyone knows (except the jury). They just don’t do anything about it because they believe that they system would break down if police were held accountable.
Oh wow, so they're all in on it huh?
Listen, I want to pick this up with you later sarc - but right now I've got to call my broker and get him to purchase another 1000 shares of REYN.
Oh wow, so they’re all in on it huh?
Ask any defense attorney. They know that police reports and testimony is historical fiction. As does everyone else in the system. Yes, they're all in on it. That's not paranoia, it's the sad truth.
Tom, make that 10,000 shares. I've got a real crackpot here.
Attacking me doesn’t make what I said wrong.
It's a matter of incentives. The system is incentivized to punish people for victimless crimes. Because there's no victim, the only damning testimony is going to come from the police. Police who are trained to lie to people to trick them into saying things that are incriminating, and who are trained to lie on reports and in courts to get convictions.
Require that all criminal laws must have an identifiable victim and all that would change.
Occam's Razor dude.
Do you know any attorneys? If so, ask them about it. They'll corroborate what I said.
The only people who will corroborate you sarc, are ACABs.
Your talking nothing but blind prejudice and ignorance. You're angry at cops because you don't like the law.
Well go take it up with your local legislature. And, if you're not going to do that, then help undermine the cops by keeping marijuana out of society.
It’s not violated if he has probable cause. That’s the point here, Chip. We need to take “I smell marijuana” off the table as a basis for probable cause.
No, it's to take "I smelled marijuana" off the table as a pretext for a search. It's a subtle difference.
Well it works just the same.
If 1,000,000 searches based on "I smelled marijuana" do not actually turn up marijuana, because American society isn't using marijuana - cops can't use that anymore, can they.
Support your Constitution, Chip. Rail against recreational drug use.
This won't work. If you're in a jurisdiction where smell of marijuana is adequate to supply probable cause, anything found in the search is admissible even if no weed is found.
Not if you can get the basis of the search thrown out completely.
So you see no need for the 4th amendment? Nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide?
Getting everyone to stop using pot is a simple enough idea. Might as well have everyone to stop stealing, murdering and raping too. No need to keep this secret in the US. It will work wonders in the middle east and Ukraine. Add a few more things to the list and we won't need police or any government.
I agree, pretty awesome from a libertarian perspective. I'm in. What's step 1?
So you see no need for the 4th amendment?
No no no, nothing like that.
I'm just saying that the "I smell marijuana" pretext will never succeed on people who eschew it. And the more people who eschew marijuana will bring a sharp decline in cops who "smell" it being able to use that as a basis for a search. Imagine a cop trying to rationalize that as an excuse for a search when the statistical findings of American marijuana consumption are <1%.
It's actually very PRO-4A. Curbing/ending recreational drug use is a BOOST to 4A protections.
I agree, pretty awesome from a libertarian perspective. I’m in. What’s step 1?
Crack down hard on marijuana and marijuana cultivation, and simultaneously marijuana usage. Both domestically and abroad. Burn the fields, imprison American traffickers (and kill international ones), put any recreational users caught doping into mandatory 2-year rehab with no outside visitation.
I know it seems like a relatively benign thing to go so hard against, but the Guiliani "broken windows" approach is what best applies here. In fact, we could probably titillate large swaths of the population - who are so worked up and into knots over their climate change guilt - by announcing to the world, "Here's one species of plant it's OK to render extinct!" A lofty goal, perhaps - but at least's an attack on mother nature nobody has to feel guilty about.
We all just need to get on the same page with it. Marijuana serves no purpose in society but for getting high, which in turn needlessly empowers cops. Let's take that away from them. One less arrow in their quiver.
Watch out for that first step. It's a doozy
Big risk, big reward. How much do we care about 4A? Enough to stop recreational drug use, such that it can no longer serve as a pretext for 4A violations?
And the more people who eschew marijuana will bring a sharp decline in cops who “smell” it being able to use that as a basis for a search.
No it wouldn't. Why would you ever think that? Police don't say they smell marijuana because they smell marijuana. They say they smell it as a false pretext to conduct a search without consent. Only a sharp decline in people standing on the 4A would cause a sharp decline in cops claiming to smell marijuana.
No, the elimination of marijuana use in American society would make it a baseless pretext.
“I smelled marijuana.”
“Officer, you know as well as I do that nobody in America smokes dope. They hate it and have risen up together to make it very clear that marijuana usage is 100% intolerable among American society. Who do you think you’re kidding.”
All we have to do is stop smoking dope. It’s not hard.
I get your point. You don't like pot. That's fine. Thing is, nobody cares. They're going to smoke it anyway. And police will still claim to smell it when it isn't there because they face no consequences for their lies.
It has nothing to do with what I like or don't like.
I'm simply asking whether you value the Constitution or not.
If you do, you'll stop smoking dope - and convince everyone you possibly can to do the same. It'll help shore up the 4th Amendment.
You care about that, right?
Thing is, nobody cares. They’re going to smoke it anyway.
And in doing so, play right in to the hands of the cops. Why would they DO that? Is the high really worth empowering cops to tell and get away with these kinds of lies, when we could easily take that away from them completely?
If you do, you’ll stop smoking dope – and convince everyone you possibly can to do the same. It’ll help shore up the 4th Amendment.
Just to be clear, it's not the duty of the government to reign in police who lie and violate our rights, it's the duty of the people to stop dressing slutty so the cops won't be tempted to rape them?
I haven't said anything about duties.
I'm talking about a 100% voluntary effort to cut the legs out from under the police forever. Every single ACAB here should be for this without question. I am seriously and genuinely not understanding the pushback on this.
We get rid of recreational drug use, we hobble the cops. They can NO LONGER use that as a pretext. It strengthens 4A, and America and Americans are better off in every way shape and form.
How could anyone POSSIBLY be against eliminating recreational drug use knowing this?
You can't eliminate recreational drug use anymore than you can eliminate human nature. It's been tried over and over with the same results.
If you want to hobble the cops, accept recreational drug use and eliminate the incentive police have to go after people for victimless crimes. Maybe they'll start investigating assaults and burglaries for a change.
We could try. What do you have against trying?
Let's just start real simple. Burn every known marijuana field - natural or factory - in America to the ground. Encourage every other nation in the world to do the same.
For/Against?
What part of "It’s been tried over and over with the same results" do you not understand?
I asked you For or Against.
Are you for or against burning down as many pot fields as possible with the end goal of making marijuana extinct?
If you're against, which means you're super pro-cop, why?
If you’re against, which means you’re super pro-cop, why?
That is painful logic. Hurts my head.
I would eliminate all criminal laws that don't involve the use of force and/or fraud to harm the life, liberty or property of another person. That would eliminate the ability of the police to harass people over drugs.
For or Against?
This is a very simple solution. Start eliminating as much marijuana from American society as possible. Or, empower the cops to use "smell of marijuana" against you. Are you pro-weed, or are you pro-cop?
Because you can't be both.
Just pick one of two sentence starters:
I am for eliminating as much marijuana from American society as possible, knowing it would limit the ability of police to use it as a pretextual excuse, because...
or
I am against eliminating as much marijuana from American society as possible, knowing it would empower the ability of police to use it as a pretextual excuse, because...
I would eliminate all criminal laws...
And there it is.
Crack down hard on marijuana and marijuana cultivation, and simultaneously marijuana usage. Both domestically and abroad. Burn the fields, imprison American traffickers (and kill international ones), put any recreational users caught doping into mandatory 2-year rehab with no outside visitation.
Your argument seems to be that “Real
CommunismSocialismProhibition hasn’t been tried yet.”No, Prohibition implies that the State try to regulate everything.
I'm simply suggesting we get pot off the market - with fire and force - and convince the populace that their 4th Amendment is far more important than the luxury of getting high.
Seriously, what is it people value so much about getting high? They go to such absurd lengths to defend something as worthless as marijuana. What am I missing here?
Why no execute drug users on the spot? That would solve the problem of police harassing people over drugs. Just drop them on the spot. Before long all the drug users will have quit or been buried. That's what they do in Muslim countries.
Why no execute drug users on the spot?
Seems excessive. Especially when there's the simple alternative of them just not doing drugs on the table.
No, Prohibition implies that the State try to regulate everything.
Actually, I was referring to the Prohibition Era, which, in the context of American history, refers to a brief time period in the early 20th century wherein alcohol was a federally banned substance, and harsh legal penalties were in place for people possessing or consuming it. It was such a disastrous policy that it marked the first time the Constitution was amended to repeal a previous Amendment.
Having clarified that, who exactly is it that you would have burning fields, imprisoning and/or killing traffickers, and putting users into mandatory rehab facilities? Vigilantes?
It was such a disastrous policy
Yea, but that had to do with alcohol. Drugs and alcohol are in no way whatsoever comparable. So, it doesn't really "clarify" anything, because you're comparing apples to zebras.
Having clarified that, who exactly is it that you would have burning fields, imprisoning and/or killing traffickers, and putting users into mandatory rehab facilities?
Libertarian/ACAB types, of course. They're the ones who want to stop this over-reach by the cops. They're the ones who should put the torches to the pot farms. They're the ones who should be narcing out the traffickers to the proper authorities. They're the ones who should be helping get drug users into inpatient rehab.
I frankly don't understand why they DON'T do that. It's like they love cops or something.
Ah, took me awhile. Good one.
If they want to conduct a search and someone who knows their rights refuses consent, the cops will lie and say they smell marijuana.
It’s become a standard practice to get retribution on uppity peasants.
Yes, so take that lie away from them. Make it impossible to tell.
By eliminating recreational drug use of marijuana in this country, we cut the legs out of the police's ability to USE this lie.
That's win/win! I don't understand how anyone here wouldn't support that 100%.
You can't eliminate recreational drug use anymore than you can eliminate alcohol use. It's been tried and it doesn't work. People are going to do what makes them feel good, and if smoking pot toots their horn, they're gonna smoke pot.
Unless you've got a magic wand that will cause the plant to cease to exist, it's here to stay.
And even if you did, police would still claim that they smell it.
You can’t eliminate recreational drug use
Sure we can. And even if you think we can't, that should be more incentive for us to go even harder on recreational drug users than we do now. We don't even need to INVOLVE the cops or the State for that. You and me - Joe and Jane Citizen - could just, every time we find a pothead, be like, "WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU!? WHY ARE YOU SUPPORTING THE POLICE ENCROACHING ON OUR RIGHTS!!?"
I'd do that. Wouldn't you?
That's all dope smokers do. Give the cops an excuse to use "I smell marijuana."
Just take that away from them completely. By ridding society of marijuana use. How is that not anything BUT a positive?
Unless you’ve got a magic wand that will cause the plant to cease to exist, it’s here to stay.
Well, I don't have a magic wand - but it's not beyond the realm of possibility that we take torches to pot fields, shutter dispensaries, and crack down hard on anyone with even a single bowl to smoke. Hank Scorpio style.
If nothing else, we can try to make the plant extinct. Why wouldn't you be for that? Why wouldn't anyone be for that? Isn't that a 100% positive goal?
I’d do that. Wouldn’t you?
No. Know why? Because how they live their lives is none of my damn business. As long as they leave my life, liberty and property alone, I don't care what they do.
It becomes your business the moment you start complaining about cops who say, "I smell marijuana."
In fact, at that point you've gone out of your way to MAKE it your business.
So why not support the easiest solution? Discourage, with the goal of ending, recreational drug use.
Who and why wouldn't anyone support that, if for no reason other than to cut the legs out of police being able to use it as a pretext for a search?
We get rid of the drugs, we get rid of the pretext. Or do you WANT cops being able to do this to people? And if so, why?
Know why women in Muslim countries have to cover up? To prevent them from tempting men. If they tempt men then they’re the ones who get punished.
You’re basically saying that
menthe police can’t help but torapeviolate the rights of anyone whodresses sluttysmells like weed, so we all need toput on burkasstop smoking the stuff.There isn't much drug use in Iran. You should move there. You'd be right at home.
And we very highly respect Muslim culture here in America, don't we. In fact, we kinda lose our minds any time Muslim culture is disrespected. We even have a special term for it: "Islamophobia."
And the flaw in your comparison is that the police CAN help using "smell of marijuana" as a pretext - but they have no reason NOT to. Because marijuana use is a pretty prevalent thing in American society.
So, let's GIVE them a reason to. We get rid of marijuana use in American society, and we take away the cops' ability to use it as a pretext.
And why the heck shouldn't we? We lose absolutely nothing in that deal. Only the cops do.
That’s win/win! I don’t understand how anyone here wouldn’t support that 100%.
It's less about supporting or opposing it than it is understanding the realities of human nature. Prohibition of alcohol was tried, and it caused far more problems than it solved. The War on Drugs has been going on for decades, with comparable results. Yet many people still want to get high and/or drunk, and some get addicted. Accepting that some people will find ways to get stoned even if there are criminal penalties for it is not the same as approving of their actions.
The solution is to allow that to happen so long as it doesn't put anyone else in danger. The solution is to not make it illegal to have weed in your car.
It’s less about supporting or opposing it than it is understanding the realities of human nature.
Should we encourage or discourage their recreational drug use, knowing how it empowers cops to legally play fast and loose with our Constitutional Rights?
We should be indifferent to actions that harm noone but the consenting adult(s) involved, and work to remove excuses for cops to violate Constitutional rights.
But it's not an excuse. Because the smell of marijuana is scant evidence of criminal activity. (Especially when your suspect is behind the wheel of a car.)
If we just get rid of our marijuana use, they can't use that as an excuse to claim criminal activity anymore.
You are unhinged. It doesn't matter if anyone in the U.S. uses pot or not. The fact is they can continue to use it as a backdoor to get around the 4th amendment regardless of usage, and we know this because it's already happened. It's not even a question.
Sure, you seem rabidly attached to the idea of no one doing drugs but your 'thought experiment' has already been tried and it notably failed miserably while eroding out individual rights.
Just as a simple and obvious failure, how exactly do you intend on making sure no one in the United States smokes pot to remove this asinine excuse? They already tried a 'war on drugs' that failed, and a total prohibition on alcohol that failed, so what is your answer to that? Just...hope people stop doing drugs? To that point, I'd note the entirety of human history and it's close relationship with intoxicants of all kinds.
AT is trolling, and, to my chagrin, doing so effectively.
After reading his or her ranting "just say no to drugs and cops will have to stop lying" I have an alternate proposal. The best part is that it will work for anyone who wants it to work regardless of anyone else doing it. Just hit the "Mute User" button on any of those rants and the problem is solved!
Works for me.
How about another Opium War? Imperial beheadings and civil wars killing tens millions over something actually poisonous and addictive resulted in the wondrous People's State of Communist China. So what could possibly go wrong with judicial murders by jackbooted minions with blanket immunity from prosecution--to prevent something totally harmless that has never killed or enslaved anyone? Oh! What about the League of Nations banning harmless drugs worldwide from 1929 to 1945. Financial success, no?
The fact is they can continue to use it as a backdoor to get around the 4th amendment regardless of usage
Yes, but if all of America works together to cut the legs out from under the cops, and they all agree to refuse to smoke pot - no court in the world is going to uphold a search based on "I smelled marijuana."
The judge would look at them and be like, "Bro, literally nobody smokes pot in America anymore wtf are you talking about." Eventually they'd have to retire the tactic as completely useless.
I'd be like them saying, "I smelled illegally trafficked exotic chimpanzees." Do you know the statistical likelihood of that being the case on an average motorist stop? That's not going to hold up in court.
Just as a simple and obvious failure, how exactly do you intend on making sure no one in the United States smokes pot to remove this asinine excuse?
Well, I think the libertarians should be the ones to rally the cry. Work together, socially condemn the marijuana use, decry its use when it's seen or smelled. I can guarantee you that most social conservatives (especially of the religious variety) will be on board. If the most drug-loving political demographic works together to flip the script and decry its use, it can be a snowball that rolls into an avalanche. And then we can have a country where nobody smokes dope, and the cops can't use it as an excuse for anything anymore.
Just…hope people stop doing drugs?
It really needs to be the libertarians that lead by example. They're the worst offenders, and they need to be the ones to set the new standard. And they can easily lead with the whole "undercut the cops" argument.
Pick up on ATF, the mentally crippled Christian National Socialist assigned to Infiltrate and Orangopox the Reason Commentariat. He "can't understand" that there's anything wrong with jackbooted minions gunning down people and dogs on account of unverifiable subjetive imaginings. The initiation of deadly force is the prerogative of Revealed Faith that automatically knows what's better for the riffraff than living own lives and minding own business. Think of it as "tough love" from another demention, and obey the Führer.
See, that kind of thing right there is not going to help. You're obviously stoned, so a cop could - and would - easily use that against you. Why do that? You don't HAVE to do the drugs, Lib.