Daniel Perry's Pardon Makes a Mockery of Self-Defense
Texas Gov. Greg Abbott takes a tactic from the progressive prosecutors he says he opposes.

That there are government officials who politicize the law is about as foundational to the discourse as any complaint I can think of. The criticism is sometimes quite fair. And for the latest example of a soft-on-crime politician flouting law and order, we can look to Texas Gov. Greg Abbott.
Abbott, of course, is no self-styled progressive. But his recent decision to pardon Daniel Perry, who was convicted last year of murdering Garrett Foster, channels the spirit of the progressive prosecutors he criticizes for allegedly refashioning the law to suit their ideological preferences. He just has different targets.
The governor, who last year urged the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles to recommend a pardon for Perry, doesn't see it that way. "Texas has one of the strongest 'Stand Your Ground' laws of self-defense that cannot be nullified by a jury or a progressive District Attorney," he wrote in a statement yesterday, approving the pardon after the board officially obliged his request. (It's worth noting that the board, whose members are appointed by the governor, circumvented its own requirement that "evidence of actual innocence from at least two trial officials, or the findings of fact and conclusions of law from the district judge indicating actual innocence" be submitted to even consider such a pardon.)
It is absolutely true that the right to self-defense is vital. And to argue that Perry—who, prior to killing Foster at a 2020 Black Lives Matter protest, wrote that he wanted to "shoot the [protesters] in the front and push the pedal to the metal"—acted in self-defense is to make a total mockery of that right and those who've had to exercise it.
It is also true that many district attorneys, some of them so-called "progressive" prosecutors, appear to disdain that right. There are the cases across New York City I've covered, for example, where prosecutors are unconscionably seeking lengthy prison terms for people who acted in self-defense but had the audacity to do so with an unlicensed gun. That includes the case of Charles Foehner, an elderly man who shot a mugger in Queens, after which law enforcement brought so many weapons charges against him that Foehner would go to prison for life if convicted on all. That was in June 2023. In November, LaShawn Craig of Brooklyn shot a masked man who'd entered his apartment. Though prosecutors concede the shooting was in self-defense, they also charged him with several weapons offenses, including criminal possession of a weapon, a violent felony.
And then, most famously, there was Kyle Rittenhouse, whose 2021 prosecution for murder polarized much of the nation, despite that, if you knew the facts, it was an obvious example of self-defense—something I made very clear at the time.
There are some interesting parallels between Rittenhouse's case and Perry's case that are hard to ignore. Both men used their guns at protests against police brutality, many of which popped up across the U.S. in the summer of 2020. The shootings happened exactly a month apart. Then their stories diverge considerably, ending in an acquittal and a conviction, because the way they used their firearms was quite different, despite the culture war backdrop being the same. Both of these things can be true.
In July 2020, Perry ran a red light and drove into a crowd of protesters. That in and of itself, of course, is not enough to deduce that he was looking for a fight. His own statements prior to doing so, however, add a great deal of helpful context and show his frame of mind at the time. "I might have to kill a few people on my way to work they are rioting outside my apartment complex," he wrote on social media on May 31, 2020. Also in May, he threatened to a friend that he "might go to Dallas to shoot looters." And then in mid-June, he sent that message about going to a protest, "shoot[ing] the ones in the front," and then careening his car through the hubbub.
This was part of a pattern. Austin police detective William Bursley testified, for instance, that Perry searched on Safari for "protesters in Seattle gets shot," "riot shootouts," and "protests in Dallas live." It is not hard to connect the dots between his searches and messages.
So what about that stand-your-ground defense Abbott alleges the jury nullified? Core to Perry's case and trial was whether he reasonably feared for his life that July evening. Foster indeed had a rifle on him—because open carry is legal in Texas. The Second Amendment does not solely exist for people with conservative views. The big question then: Was Foster pointing the gun at Perry when he approached his vehicle? For the answer, we can go to Perry himself, who told law enforcement that he was not. "I believe he was going to aim at me," he said. "I didn't want to give him a chance to aim at me." But that is not a self-defense justification, as Perry cannot claim clairvoyance.
That the jury reached the conclusion they did is not a mystery, nor is it an outrage. What is outrageous, however, is that a governor who claims to care about law and order has made clear that his support for crime victims is at least in part conditional on having the "right" politics.
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Jeffrey Dahmer should have claimed self defense.
Yeah, that case has been eating me up lately… CONSUMING me, even!
Hey he was starving.
So he should have claimed hardship?
And gotten free beer down at the shelter.
Violent crimes aren't crimes (or are forgivable crimes) if committed by the RIGHT Tribe against the WRONG tribe! And yes, shit DOES go both ways! Shit is generally-usually bishitual!!!
Yup. We slump into an era of political violence that will not end well.
Sadly read Sq comment. He's right - I mean how many illegal immigrants, BLM, people are just let go for burning federal buildings, or car bombs, or even rape.
Darwin award for Foster.
Stuff it to the Progressives.
Reason STILL fucking simping for Foster?
Fuck the lot of you.
What could be more libertarian than unlawfully detaining people while pointing guns at them?
He might have had a bear in his trunk.
His rights were already being violated by the mob. Then a member of said mob approached him with a gun. Go fuck yourself Billy.
Yes, a mob attacks his car due to a mistake he made. I believe people in the mob were pounding on his car. That is not a good plan. It implies being under threatening attack. Similar panic attack with bad reactions as that fool in Charlottesville. He should go free. Mobs make really poor decisions.
A mob pounding on your car is a "you or them" situation. Would such a person expect they are just going to pull you out of the car and give a stern lecture? Or stomp your face into the pavement extruding your grey matter?
You circle a car pounding on it, especially when one of you is brandishing, you have officially signed a contract and entered an agreement. That being, its on, and best of luck with your life. Fuck around and find out. You just wagered your life versus the person in the car. Maybe he wins, maybe you win. Its stupid, but everyone got what they deserved frankly
I don't know. Maybe they will be kind and have a respectful debate when you step out of the car.
Look for the goodness in people, friends.
Hahaha
Billy and the left - that's different because, we say so
Why was his car in the midst of the mob in the first place? "Due to a mistake he made"? Or due to his intention, previously stated, to target it? Kind of makes a difference.
Why was his car in the midst of the mob in the first place?
Because if it was a red SUV it would've been on top of the mob?
Does it matter in any way, shape, or form?
Antifa member and apparently libertarian hero Foster was menacing him with a fucking rifle. Perry was right to shoot him. Should have fired more shots, to be honest.
So blame the victim of a violent mob, good strategy comrade. Fuck off with that idiocy you evil POS, you're just looking for excuses to vindicate the marxist scum.
Roads are for driving, not angry mobs surrounding and pounding on cars.
Because it was on the road. Funny how you aren't asking why the mob was in the road. You're about as bad as Billy.
Billy the Governor didn't pardon him. The Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles did.
That's Reason schilling for the Democrats again even though they claim to be Libritarian. If they aren't making shit up about Florida, they are making it up about Texas.
Not just Democrats but the revolutionary marxists that were the violent mobs of BLM.
The governor did pardon him. After the board "recommended" he do so. After the governor recommended that THEY do so.
It's called collaboration. You must be new to the concept.
You didn't answer the above questiosn comrade
Because they were illegally blocking the street.
Kind of makes a difference.
No, it doesn't.
Actually, it doesn't make a difference. You have the right to defend yourself even if you were stupid to get into the situation.
Did he not have the same right to be there as all the other people?
Who were, remember, also looking to start shit.
"She shouldn't have been at that frat party to begin with."
Wait, so your view is
* She dressed that way so she deserved it
* You shouldn't walk down an alley
* you have a green light but should stop to make sure someone isn't going through the red.
While, you can debate the idea of good or bad, it's not on the victim is it?
Billi is an ass hole
He’s a silly billi.
This was one of the most dumbass stories I've ever read on this sight. An angry mob in the street is not a "protest". Guy took a turn and was surrounded by an angry mob pounding on his car then some jackass with an AR shows up. From a picture you can clearly see that guy leaning left, his right shoulder coming up and the elbow out. All clear indications he was bringing the rifle into firing position. Guy in the car was well within his rights to shoot that clown as you don't wait until a rifle is in your face before acting unless you want to get dead. Better would have been for the driver on turning the corner to either go in reverse or drive through the mob and escape but he stopped.
I guess the author is advocating letting yourself get shot before doing anything in self defense. Good luck with that course of action
I can only hope Binion faces this same situation. Just to see how he reacts.
THIS is why "libertarians" are fucking clowns.
Yes and. Don't leave out their increasingly unsupportable views on drug legalization and open borders.
"Reason". LOL
Or unlawfully detaining people.
Or men pretending to be girls.
Well said.
Actually, since the mob was blocking the road, surrounding his car and beating on it, he was within his rights to shoot any member of the mob near his car. But he chose to only shoot the guy advancing with an AK-47. So he was being reasonable. Sure, his tweets suggest he might have been looking for trouble. But that doesn't give a mob the right to terrorize, assault or kill somebody. The bottom line is that if you don't to end up dead, don't join an angry mob that blocks roads while assaulting or terrorizing motorists. And you especially don't want to openly carry a firearm while doing so.
Only a mob if it's the right. Mostly peaceful but fiery protest is on the left.
Looting and other crimes don't exist either. I'm going to steal this big screen to feed my family!
The headline is actually correct. The fact that he was found guilty and needed a pardon makes a mockery of self-defense. Just like the Daniel Penny case.
Reason opposes the tactic they normally support with progressive prosecutors.
It's (D)ifferent.
>And to argue that Perry—who, prior to killing Foster at a 2020 Black Lives Matter protest, wrote that he wanted to "shoot the [protesters] in the front and push the pedal to the metal"—acted in self-defense is to make a total mockery of that right and those who've had to exercise it.
Binion, as usual, you have no idea what you are fucking talking about and are just repeating the Tweets from your liberal in-group.
Yes, Perry was an asshole. Yes, Perry - like many of us - wrote something stupid on the internet.
Yet Perry was in a situation where he was trapped in a hostile mob and a motherfucker was pointing a rifle at him.
What was he supposed to do? Just sit there and see what happens?
In fact the "motherfucker" was not "pointing a rifle at him"--as he clearly admitted on a video you have probably seen.
Why do you think you need to lie?
Low-ready position is absolutely 'pointing a rifle at you'. Simp.
No - Low Ready is typically not pointing a gun at someone. That’s how you are taught to draw and not directly threaten the other party, but be ready to respond. You can find innumerable SD experts to testify to just that. “Muzzling” someone is usually the key. It was when the third guy Rittenhouse shot pointed his gun at him, the second time, that was the green light for his SD shot. Low Ready essentially says that you are not directly (and imminently) threatening someone, but are in a position to respond with deadly force, if necessary. A previous commenter claimed that you could see when the guy in the mob, with his rifle, straightened his shoulder and raised his elbow, which meant that he was coming out of a an equivalent neutral position into a firing position, that justified the shooter coming out of his Low Ready position and fire. I likely would have done the same thing in that situation - except that I would not have put myself into the midst of that mob.
I have a suspicion that if a member of a mob came up to you with a rifle, you wouldn’t be totally cool with it
Very true. But there is nothing in self defense law that it’s it to firearms. Besides I’m over 70, and my wife is even more fragile. And “great bodily injury” typically includes broken bones. Which is to say that I probably don’t wait to see a firearm.
Unless you're sitting in a vehicle and understand that the doors are not, in fact, generally bulletproof.
Now you're arguing with Perry:
"I believe he was going to aim at me," he said. "I didn’t want to give him a chance to aim at me."
From which, you incredibly conclude that Foster "pointed a rifle" at Perry.
You’re pretending that he was at some kind of “chill” event and not a riot.
Wasn’t foster bragging into a camera shortly before his death about how his gun scared people and they were too pussy to stop him?
Fuck him. Dude was begging for it.
Indeed.
Pointing a rifle at you means that if he pulled the trigger, you would get hit with a bullet. From what I have seen, I don't think that was the case here. If he wasn't surrounded by an aggressive mob, I don't think he would have been justified in shooting. But the fact that he was surrounded by a mob who for all he knew was about to pull him out of the car and beat the shit out of him I think makes his actions reasonable.
Here's a quote from one of Foster's friends on another libertarian site that I go to:
"For the record, Garret Foster was not a communist as implied by one of the quoted tweets. He was a libertarian and more interested in the defunding police aspect than the racial one. He was in many of the same libertarian Facebook groups as me.
That said, Perry was absolutely in his right to shoot him. Foster acted irresponsibly and it was reasonable to assume he intended Perry harm."
By gesturing for him to roll down his window. Blaze away!
What business did he have stopping someone with a gun?
Wannabe cop?
He was cosplaying the US foreign policy.
Perry didn't go there to fight. He didn't start the confrontation. He was working for Uber. I believe there's sufficient establishment of this. And it's not like it was a well-marked parade route and he had to drive past 4 cops (like Darrel Brooks) to end up in the middle of the protestors. They took over a city street and he didn't have advance notice of their march or their route so he could move around it.
He chose not to put up with people blocking traffic, which I think we've all agreed is not a legitimate form of protest. You don't get to inhibit others' freedom of movement for your cause, doesn't matter if you claim you're a libertarian or a marxist, if you're protesting for more freedom or more government. So he tried to drive through a gap in the crowd, and his vehicle got swarmed, with a guy carrying a rifle dashing toward him.
It's not like someone was casually walking past him and carrying a rifle. He was surrounded, people pounding on his car, and a guy with a gun comes running up. No, you don't have to wait for a person to aim at you if you have sufficient reason to infer their intent to use it. This guy wasn't Kyle Rittenhouse, running with his rifle away from an angry crowd, this guy was running WITH the crowd toward a lone individual. And he was violating the NAP by blocking traffic.
You could convince me that, if Foster had fired, it would also have been self-defense. That doesn't invalidate that Perry was acting in self-defense. Both parties can have reasonable self-defense claims in a number of circumstances.
It was a clean shoot.
Now I am not so sure about this. Just can't be agreeing with some people. Because.
/S
Awesome handle
+1000 title
"And then, most famously, there was Kyle Rittenhouse, whose 2021 prosecution for murder polarized much of the nation, despite that, if you knew the facts, it was an obvious example of self-defense—something I made very clear at the time."
Neither of the articles linked to in this sentence make it at all clear that the author thought Rittenhouse was an obvious example of self-defense. They don't seem to take a stance on it one way or the other, in fact. They sure are concerned to make it clear that Call of Duty shouldn't be blamed, though.
I checked one of the links, and you're right. Binion said nothing of the right of self defense. He argued about whether video games inspired violence. He also engaged in "boaf sidism" saying that "law and order" conservatives who supported Rittenhouse were hypocrites, as were progressives who wanted Rittenhouse's head on a pike but usually wanted criminals to go free because of "systemic racism". Binion seemed unconcerned with justice.
Perry's beliefs were completely irrelevant. The only question was would a rational person have reason to believe that his life was endangered by a violent mob when an armed individual in that mob was approaching him?
Don’t wet yourself Binion.
Too late.
I thought that for once the progressives might have a point. Perry was clearly a racist, in the classic sense. He had posted multiple places describing his anti-black animus. I thought that Abbott’s pardon may be a way for him to reclaim some credibility with his base after his atrocious covid policies.
It was today that I learned that Foster, the guy he shot, was white; in fact a ginger.
The lefty media has been aflame about how the Texas governor pardoned a white racist who shot a guy at a BLM rally, after plowing into the crowd with his vehicle.
One would think that if Perry was motivated by racist racism, he could have found a black guy to shoot at a BLM demonstration.
This racial angle is reminiscent of a certain attempt to frame Kyle R. as having Crossed State Lines (totally legal) the day of his troubles, or even certain media who try to portray the payment of money as part of an NDA contract as nefarious. A pattern of revealing unpleasant and unsavory character flaws that are legally irrelevant and not probative of guilt or innocence, but place the defendant in a bad light.
I don’t know if Perry requested a venue change, but Austin/Travis County is a blueberry in a tomato soup state.
It was an illegal demonstration, the driving into the crowd was accidental, and the victim was brandishing a rifle.
I’m giving both Perry and Gov Abbott the benefit of the doubt. Not the cleanest shoot in history, but justifiable under the circumstances. I wasn’t there for the shoot, or the trial; perhaps a commutation would have been more appropriate.
he could have found a black guy to shoot at a BLM demonstration.
Do any Black people actually go to BLM demonstrations?
The ones selling the tshirts.
They take the cash and dine at Red Lobster for a really good meal./s
Well, not maybe anymore. The company seems to be shutting down a lot of Red Lobster locations right now…
Got them cheddar biscuits.
IMO, the funniest part about it to me is that and AI wouldn't have penned Foster so absurdly woke racist.
AI is really improving.
The lead detective in the case later testified that the DA pressured them to withhold exculpatory evidence from the jury, so, in my mind, a more appropriate result would have been for the DA to switch places with the person he maliciously convicted, for the remainder of the sentence.
Exculpatory how? That Perry may have been a racist and a murderer, but he liked puppies?
Does it matter?
Aren't you supposed to turn everything over? For, I don't know, general fairness in a trial? Or to prevent Brady violations? The kinds of things that we generally refer to as 'prosecutorial misconduct'.
"Well, the prosecution was completely out of line, but I didn't like some of the things he said on Facebook."
That's a fair trial to you. I hope you get the same treatment when the pendulum swings the other way.
Fucking hell, dude. The information has been out there long enough that there is no excuse for an article like this. Billy, you are the one being aggressively political here worrying about the principals rather than any principles. Also, you were not a defender of Rittenhouse. You reluctantly admitted that there might be a self-defense case while casting him as the antagonist and keying in on everything possible to discredit him under your own clique social mores.
Long story short, you are a dishonest idiot who is the antithesis of libertarian thought
You've upset the idiot MAGAts in the comment section, Billy.
Predictably so. They'll always take the anti-BLM side regardless of circumstances. And they love the illogical "I thought he might aim the gun at me so I shot him so he couldn't aim the gun at me" bullshit the murderer claimed.
What the fuck are you two clowns babbling about?
If you're going to make shit up at least don't sound nonsensical doing it.
There’s over a dozen comments for them to respond to. They don’t do that. They toss out bullshit.
I especially like “I thought he might aim the gun at me so I shot him so he couldn’t aim the gun at me”. There’s not a single post with this as it’s point.
Hey Edg, go fuck yourself. Nobody here buys your bullshit. You can’t make a coherent response to any particular post because you’re a retard that’s posting stock talking points that were either emailed to you or you saw in your Facebook feed. Go tell your bosses you’re in over your head.
But here’s the beauty of it all: despite your whining, you lost again. Another violent commie dead, and the man that killed him is free.
Although I am not pro-BLM (the organization) I am pro-black lives. I think too many police officers use excessive force unnecessarily and then get away with killing the suspects. I am also anti-riot and I don't care who the rioters are. The Perry case leaves too many questions unanswered for me to express an informed opinion about the pardon but after reading what few facts are available in retrospect, I find it hard to believe that the jury found Perry guilty because the facts presented to them were convincing beyond a shadow of a doubt.
I think too many police officers use excessive force unnecessarily and then get away with killing the suspects.
You realize you're several orders of magnitude more likely to be the subject of excessive force, including death, by a criminal without a badge than with, right? And that, given your death, the perpetrator is much more likely to avoid apprehension or even identification if they aren't a police officer, right?
I certainly don't agree with police killing people either but police killing people, the majority of them white, is a systemic problem that requires a systemic solution and Black Lives Matter, especially as grass roots, in-the-streets, burn shit down protest movement, is specifically anti-conducive to that. It's not like the BLM movement is calling for lower wages to keep people in jobs or for more people to go to Church or normalizing social organizations to develop stable social or family habits. It's not like they are calling for Universities to cut down on the social activist B.S. both on campus and in University administration so that they can save on tuition and focus on teaching people personally and socially beneficial skills more cheaply and effectively. They're specifically picking out the 1-2 police deaths a year and highlighting them over the hundreds and thousands of other deaths that their own policies exacerbate. And doing so in order to mix in calls for higher wages/UBI and free college education so people can protest on campus too.
I continually make this point, the alternative to police shooting people and/or locking them up isn't that no one gets shot or locked up. The alternative is that regular people wind up shooting more often to defend themselves. Blaming the police doesn't change this dichotomy. Objectively recognizing the root and systemic causes of who shoots people most often and why is what actually begins to address both the number of people shot by police as well as the far, far larger number of people shot by people in their own communities.
mad.casual – Nice piece of misdirection but most of what you said is irrelevant to the issue here. Police killing criminals instead of you having to kill them is a false dichotomy. If the person the police killed was innocent or crazy or deaf then I would never have to have killed them myself because I would never have been attacked or threatened by them. The very notion that I am safer in general because police kill suspects is not only false but dangerous. I accept the risk that I might be killed by a random criminal someday (statistically speaking) but I will NEVER accept the risk of being killed by a law enforcement officer responding to the wrong address or based on an anonymous tip or during a traffic stop. Try it on someone who isn’t paying attention.
If the person the police killed was innocent or crazy or deaf then I would never have to have killed them myself because I would never have been attacked or threatened by them.
You're asserting that the only purpose the police serve is to shoot deaf people and you're accusing me of misdirection?
The very notion that I am safer in general because police kill suspects is not only false but dangerous.
Show me where the word safer appeared in my post you dumb shit. I specifically didn't say it. Specifically the opposite. If the police don't shoot criminals, civilians will. The idea that without police nobody would think to break the law is even more stupid than the idea that with police no one will break the law.
Try it on someone who isn’t paying attention.
Just as with reading 'safer' into my statement, I didn't say you weren't paying attention, I said you aren't attached to our shared reality. You fabricated 'safer' out of your own idiocy. The same idiocy that's pretty flatly saying, "If the police never kill anyone, there would be less crime and I'd be disproportionately safer than I am now." like some retarded 8 yr. old girl who, if she just had a pony, life would be perfect. You can accuse me of misdirection because you think I lied all you like little girl, but it doesn't change the facts and it won't get you your pony.
To be clear,
You’re asserting, in the context of Daniel Perry shooting someone to death in the middle of a public street, that the only purpose the police serve is to shoot deaf people and you’re accusing me of misdirection?
You aren't paying attention. This is as obliviously retarded as anything Tony or Jeff or sarcasmic would say/do.
Some years back, a leafy suburb near me decided to have a referendum to ban high-cap magazines (over 10 rds).
So, I looked in the newspaper archive to see how serious the high cap mag situation was.
Well, if you had been shot dead in Peaceful Town in the previous ten yrs, the odds were overwhelming that a cop had done it. They loved to send out their SWAT team.
Das right, deys rayciss whi POPO be killin deys po black mens ,thousans of'em.
I support a blacks right to life just as much as the fine people at planned parenthood
Why are you just pro-Black lives? Isn't that racist like BLM? Why aren't you pro all lives?
Shut up
Incredulous – The dotted lines format makes it hard to tell who you are asking this of, but being “pro-black lives” is not incompatible with being “pro all lives” and nothing I have ever posted could possibly be interpreted as being “just pro-Black lives.” If you actually read what I wrote, I am against law enforcement officers killing – and getting away with killing – suspects. The BLM protests and riots were triggered by a particular policeman killing a particular black man unnecessarily. In my opinion, the social response to that situation is to charge and convict law enforcement officers who commit murder. The perception that young black men are the victims of murder by the police in disproportionate numbers may or may not be true and is the subject of much legitimate discussion. The idea that police officers should be immune from prosecution for murders committed while on duty is disgusting and not to be tolerated.
Does Black Lives Matter believes all Black lives matter?
Darius Ross was murdered.
I did not notice Black Lives Matter making a fuss about that.
https://www.wlfi.com/news/2-gary-men-arrested-charged-in-2018-fatal-shootings-of-3/article_f184e20a-852e-11ec-8376-a7f6dfd0e99e.html
The whole "I'm pro-black lives" but that doesn't prevent me from being "pro all lives" retardation is straight out of the BLM playbook from the first two weeks of the movement.
He's practically verbatim rehashing their idiocy which is figuratively rehashing Orwell's "all animals are equal, some animals are more equal than others".
He doesn't actually want police to stop shooting people. He needs them to continue to do so in order to support his more special victim animals narrative. He's at the heart of the reason why a legitimate movement to keep police from getting bearcats and being able to kick in doors willy-nilly turned into riots for more equal animals while other less equal animals were locked in their homes.
Who are you talking about?
Who gives a fuck what "Black Lives Matter" thinks? None of the groups I have seen using the name seem worth taking at all seriously.
Cope, seethe, and dilate, Ed. Baccyhus can operate it for you to get the axe wound separated.
Sucks for you both he’s wrong. But hey, “MAGAts” is very clever. Did you coin that yourself? Because we’ve got a long history of very clever leftists coining things here.
Here’s one you can take back to wherever you came from: CACLLs. Conservative And Conservative Leaning Libertarians. I didn’t coin that myself, but it’s very clever, and I’d bet the coiner of it would want you to have it.
White Mike flashbacks are the worst.
RIP, white Mike
Caw caw
Aww you showed everyone here your wit.
I really don't have any sympathy for people who, instead of working, spend their time in fun protests making life a living hell for everyone else. Maybe Perry has a less dramatic justification for his actions over Rittenhouse, but I'm not going to shed one tear for any "protester" who gets in the way of the the working world, of people's peace at home or especially if they riot and destroy, if they get killed in the process.
As others point out, the protesters were blocking traffic, surrounded Perry’s car and then started beating on it. Then Foster approached the vehicle with the mob while openly carrying an AK-47. It’s likely that Foster didn’t plan on shooting Perry and that Perry could have avoided shooting Foster. But it was clearly a situation where Perry feared for his safety and even life. If he waits for Foster to aim at him, he might have died. Foster put himself in harm’s way by taking part in an unlawful protest while terrorizing a driver and brandishing a firearm. There was probably reasonable doubt and a reasonable case for self defense.
The jury disagreed with you. He was convicted. There was no reasonable doubt. It was murder.
Turns out, the jury was wrong.
Did the jury see Foster's interview before the shooting? He was quite willing do gun someone down.
Was he wearing a short skirt?
Well, he was antifa…
In the interview He had a gun and was bragging about how tough it made him. Your false equivalencies are absolutely pathetic.
A gun is only an object.
Haha, Edg The Commie, the man that killed your comrade is free.
How long before he kills again? Or tries to kill someone who is better prepared than Foster was? We will hear from* him again.
* Possibly not humously.
How do you get better prepared than by having a rifle on you?
Maybe he thought all he had to do was intimidate people with it?
Anyway, the dummy is dead now.
How long before he kills again? Or tries to kill someone who is better prepared than Foster was? We will hear from* him again.
LOL, don't tease me like that. The UT campus seems like a target-rich environment in particular.
And now Perry was pardoned.
Abbott disagreed with the jury.
Brilliant.
And OJ was innocent, lol.
Think for yourself.
In other words, Foster would have been equally justified in shooting Perry first, if he had been aware that Perry had a handgun in his car.
According to Gov. Abbott, "self-defense" in Texas means you don't need to "give him a chance" to point a gun at you; you can just shoot before that happens.
Just never-mind the approach of an angry mob pounding on his vehicle. It must be a (D)ifferent lead of events if Foster had shot Perry or perhaps just none at all.
Abbott is wrong. The standard is essentially the same throughout the country for self defense - a reasonable belief in imminent death or great bodily injury. If the gun is being carried in a non threatening manner, the threat is not imminent. Despite the general opinion, TX has not been on the forefront of Self Defense law, and has been rather slow at coming to a Constitutional Carry type understanding of the 2nd Amdt.
You wouldn't feel threatened if a mob was pounding on your car, and one of them approached you with a gun?
If you live in one of those states where it is perfectly legal for civilians to carry weapons around openly, you had better learn not to "feel threatened" by what is now a to-be-expected situation.
The same goes for Foster. If he had seen the gun in Perry's car, he couldn't just "feel threatened" and shoot him before he had a chance to point it.
I suppose grandma should be prosecuted on murder charges when she shoots the TV burglary too huh? The burglar-er didn't point his gun at grandma so grandma is the one who gets prosecuted.
This kind of BS justice is one of the many reason the people are fed-up with the justice system.
"Castle doctrine" is well established. You are allowed to presume things in your own home that you aren't in the street.
That's ridiculous. Being surrounded and essentially imprisoned by a violent mob blocking the road is an inherently threatening situation which warrants self defense.
There have been a bunch of such incidents and honestly I'm amazed more people in the situation didn't freak out and just plow through the crowd.
That's what I would do, but then, I'm old enough to not be too concerned about the consequences.
Who wouldn't? Dozens of people banging and kicking your car and packing guns. If someone doesn't want to get shot or ran-over it's probably a good idea not to be packing a gun while destroying someone else's vehicle with them inside. That kind of sh*t is just asking for it.
There is a difference between a person carrying a weapon and a person carrying a weapon while in commission of a crime. If a man robs a gas station with a gun, even if they are not pointing it at anyone, the threat of death is present. This is why the "aggravated" crimes exist. Even if the weapon is not used, the mere act of being armed elevates the status of this crime.
This mob was a crime. There are numerous marks on the car and numerous cases in the weeks prior of people being dragged from their cars at these protests. Any rational person would feel in imminent danger.
Low ready is by definition a threatening matter. It means you expect the need to use the gun in less than a second. Slung is not low ready. Foster was in the low ready position.
You're retarded. I was going to say 'a moron', but I think the retard label is more accurate.
Funny enough, the term "retard" replaced "moron" as the psychological term for those with lower IQ scores.
In other words, Foster would have been equally justified in shooting Perry first, if he had been aware that Perry had a handgun in his car.
How would he have seen it? With his X-ray vision?
He threatened Perry specifically because he thought Perry wasn't armed. Oops.
“In other words, Foster would have been equally justified in shooting Perry first, if he had been aware that Perry had a handgun in his car.”
Not likely because Foster’s use of a firearm would have been illegal under Texas law because he and the other BLM protesters/rioters were illegally blocking the road and preventing people from their right to drive on it.
Under Texas’ self-defense statute, in order for use of force to be justified, the actor can “not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.”
Under Texas law, a person who “without legal privilege or authority [] intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly . . . obstructs a . . . street. . .to which the public or a substantial group of the public has access, or any other place used for the passage of persons, vehicles, or conveyances” is guilty of a Class B misdemeanor.
Also if there were seven or more people involved, their use of “force, threat of force, or physical action [to] deprive[] any person of a legal right or disturbs any person in the enjoyment of a legal right” would qualify as a “riot” under Texas law which is also a Class B misdemeanor.
So because they were engaged in criminal behavior more severe than a Class C misdemeanor, Foster and the other BLM protesters/rioters would not have a legal right to use a firearm.
What a garbage article. Perry was working (not protesting) when he was stopped by an angry BLM mob and violent protester pointed an AK-47 in his face. Fearing for his life, he defended himself and the violent protester with the AK-47 was shot. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Perry should never have been charged. It’s not ‘soft on crime,’ it’s hard on justice.
> it’s hard on justice.
Protip: Don't search for this at work.
There is no evidence that Foster "pointed an AK-47 in his face". There is considerable evidence that he did not, including Perry's own words, captured on a video even you might be able to track down on YouTube: "I didn't want to give him a chance to aim at me."
And he didn't.
Never-mind all those hand prints and boot marks found on his car.
Yes, multiple threats present. He took out the most potent. And no, the gun was not yet pointed in his face. But he was under immediate threat from many sides
And thus self-defense was warranted.
Here is a photo of Foster pointing a weapon at a driver
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/07/31/18/31251196-8573297-A_newly_surfaced_photograph_shows_Garrett_Foster_at_the_driver_s-a-31_1596216266271.jpg
It's hard to see in the photo, from the poor quality and perspective, but it still looks like it is pointed down and not at the driver. Definitely some kind of ready position though.
The lead detective (David Fugitt) reportedly filed a witness tampering affidavit that the DA had him remove 102 pages of exculpatory evidence that the grand jury never got to see and apparently supported Perry. Multiple news outlets reported this and a copy has been shared in 2A communities. The detective was apparently a defense witness during the trial.
The article could have mentioned this.
Cite?
The documents reported by In Magna Excitatio with a twitter address listed at for the quote:
https://twitter.com/RyanAFournier/status/1644702523905781767
It was posted in an intel forum. This place needs to get on Telegram. I did a Brave search and found several other places indicating the same to verify (the forum is decent but prefer multiple sources). Austin Chronicle was one on 29 Oct 2021 that reported and references it.
Thanks.
"Chacon believed that Fugitt might have violated General Order 935.4, which states that officers must notify their supervisors and consult with the city Law Department if they plan to testify as a witness or assist defense attorneys in any criminal matter."
Why? Police officers should be neutral witnesses in any criminal trial! If Garza had suppressed exculpatory evidence that might have helped Perry defend himself at trial, that would certainly be relevant to the guilty verdict and to Abbott's pardon.
https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2021-10-29/police-chief-deposition-sheds-light-on-daniel-perry-case-apd-shake-ups/
It would have been relevant to his appeal, perhaps.
Prosecutors are not required to present exculpatory evidence to the grand jury. The grand jury doesn’t determine guilt or innocence; it merely ensures that the prosecutor has enough evidence to justify and indictment.
When the case went to trial, the jury got to see all of the supposedly exculpatory evidence, and found the defendant guilty.
The defense complained that in the jury trial, evidence was not allowed to be presented that showed Foster had previously approached drivers while armed to intimidate them and a video that he admitted carrying a semiauto rifle to intimidate others that did not share his beliefs. - Austin American Statesman 11 April 2023
Don’t know if this was some of the evidence exuded from the grand jury.
Perry is free after having been convicted and incarcerated for 13 months; Foster took the asphalt temperature challenge. Am guessing if they both could rewind that day, they would.
There is a civil suit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/utk1bh/family_of_austin_protester_garrett_foster_sues/
Perry ought to counter-sue for Foster being a slack-jawed retard.
We will see.
The rules of discovery in a civil suit are looser than in a criminal prosecution.
Grand juries always do what the prosecutors ask. Originally formed to protect the accused, grand juries are now a cosmic joke.
A prosecutor's job is to obtain justice, not convictions. If there is exculpatory evidence that a prosecutor conceals, that prosecutor belongs in jail although virtually no prosecutors are ever sanctioned for concealing evidence, faking evidence, leaking grand jury testimony, suborning perjury, lying to suspects or threatening witnesses. Why? Who's going to prosecute them? Civilly, they have absolute immunity which has no legislative justification. Absolute immunity is a judge-made law.
Most prosecutors are decent people. The problem is that prosecutors have the equivalent of the Blue Wall of Silence where it is almost unheard of for one cop to report that another cop committed crimes against a citizen. Prosecutors, like police officers, have to rid their profession of criminals or face eternal skepticism and contempt by the public.
I don't consider most prosecutors to be decent people. The lot of them are political social climbers where the local /county D.A.'s office is just the first rung to Washington.
The statement “The grand jury doesn’t determine guilt or innocence;” is a lie by his own rhetoric.
The grand jury can state that the prosecution doesn’t have a case which is about as innocent as our judicial system can and does determine someone to be.
What he potentially means to say is that grand juries don’t decide guilt directly, which is true, but that doesn’t make his statement true.
Whether this was a lie of omission or a lie of commission on his part, whether he mistook the difference himself or whether he understood the difference and deliberately obfuscated to serve his ends, is for the reader to decide. Either way, to assume or assert the grand jury's job is to simply serve as an extraneous procedural formality before the actual trial, is neither very libertarian nor very ethical.
You're awfully quick to judge.
A grand jury obviously doesn't determine either guilt or innocence... An indictment is just the green light to a criminal trial, at which all the prosecution's evidence--the good and the bad--must be provided to the defense. An indictment is not a statement of guilt in any way, shape or form.
If a grand jury decides there is not enough evidence to support an indictment, there is no "acquittal", and double jeopardy does not apply. The DA can simply come back to the grand jury with better evidence and try again (although, given the fairly low standard required to get a grand jury to indict, that is rare). In some states, the DA can prosecute without a grand jury indictment at all.
https://www.tdcaa.com/journal/grand-jury-where-the-community-meets-the-law/
Fine, let's put you on the drumhead.
I doubt he knows what that means.
I wasn’t aware of Perrys tweets, but I do recall something about foster bragging that no right wing asshole would dare stand up to him because they were pussies.
So yeah, someone was looking for a fight that day.
How could you not have been aware of Perry's racist social media posts?
You might want to consider that your current sources of information think you're a mushroom!
Lol. Maybe because I’m not obsessed with every grievance angle thrown around about some moron who put himself in a bad situation arrogantly thinking he was just too intimidating to meet resistance?
Fortunately you’ve got that covered. Do keep us all posted on what you learn on EverythingIsSoTerribleAndUnfair.com
Haha. A douchebag got ventilated. He could’ve avoided that by not running around with a rifle and terrorizing people. But thanks for keeping the focus squarely where it belongs, mean tweets.
Idiot.
You honestly don't care if you've just been conned into supporting the full pardon of a virulent racist murderer?
Sorry, I'm not buying the "I hold no grievances" line, either...
Umm, all people are racist to some degree, no matter how small. No one deserves to be put in jail for thoughts. And weren't both these guys the same race?
White guy killing white guy =racism, got it.
Way to admit you want him punished for his beliefs.
You honestly don’t care if you’ve just been conned into supporting the full pardon of a virulent racist murderer?
He's not a murderer, he defended himself against a dumb ginger, and his feelings about race are immaterial to self-defense.
The pardon is justified as retaliation against the Leftist establishment who are using creative interpretations of criminal law.
I saw video of this. May have been same day interview. Foster was quite arrogant and sure he was there to intimidate with his fancy rifle
It is also true that many district attorneys, some of them so-called "progressive" prosecutors, appear to disdain that right (to armed self defense)
No fucking shit, Sherlock.
You might even say it’s one of their core beliefs.
If a teen girl gets raped and she scratches her rapist during the attack, these prosecutors would have a much more bigger problem with the raspist's face being scratched than the actual rape.
One thing is for sure. Apparently there is a world of justice difference between stomping your angry foot all over Perry's car and putting your feet up on Nancy Pelosi's desk.
Not to mention the need to burn your shoes in the second scenario.
At least Gov. Abbot did the right thing for Perry. His prosecution or in reality a persecution, much like the one on Daniel Penny was to score political points for the BLM crowd.
However, don't expect Penny to be pardoned anytime soon, not as long as the Democrats run N.Y.
As for Black Lives Matter, by now, anyone with more than two working brain cells can obviously see they are nothing more than grifters and frauds.
As for Black Lives Matter, by now, anyone with more than two working brain cells can obviously see they are nothing more than grifters and frauds.
Not just grifters and frauds, actively counterproductive in every inch the sense that anti-racism is just more of the same old racism with "anti-" in front of it.
As I point out to MWAocdoc and have pointed out before:
1. Given offenses against people and property (a.k.a. crime), the opposite of police not shooting or arresting anyone is not nobody getting arrested. The opposite of police not shooting or arresting anyone is civilians shooting and 'arresting' each other (such as by blocking traffic or keeping them in their homes).
2. In light of the 'given crime' aspect above, there are social and personal programs and institutions that actually work towards reducing and/or resolving offenses against persons and property whether enforced by the police or civilians with *or* without concern for race, creed, sex, heritage or religion, BLM advocates none of that regardless of the racial aspect.
Again, to me, "grifter" is someone who skims off the till just enough that no one notices. If people are racially outraged anyway and they make a little money... what's the harm? But BLM is distinctly not that. They specifically advocate prima facie unworkable solutions beyond even traditional grifters like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton in order to foment militant discomfort and destructive and disruptive unrest.
Yes.
"actively counterproductive in every inch the sense that anti-racism is just more of the same old racism with “anti-” in front of it"
^That deserves a repeat.
The Anti-Sexists being entirely sexist.
The Anti-Racists being entirely racist.
The Anti-Fascists being entirely fascist.
People really need to pay attention to the very purpose of a crusade instead of just thinking the label says everything. CHAZ antifa was hilarious when they demanded universal healthcare. Seriously? An anti-fascist crusade demanding fascism?
"the opposite of police not shooting or arresting anyone is not nobody getting arrested. The opposite of police not shooting or arresting anyone is civilians shooting and ‘arresting’ each other"
And as I have pointed out before to mad.casual, this is a false dichotomy AND a straw man. No one rational has ever tried to get the police to stop arresting suspects or shooting people when necessary. The argument here is over police getting away with shooting people when it's NOT necessary. The argument here is whether police should get away with filing false affidavits to obtain no-knock search warrants and shooting innocent people, or shooting innocent people during minor traffic stops or at the wrong address. Officers can make mistakes of course. None of the police disasters I am objecting to were understandable mistakes - "I thought he had a gun" excuses notwithstanding - and ALL of them were totally preventable if police were following proper due process procedures and were held accountable under the same criminal prosecution standards as the rest of us.
No one rational has ever tried to get the police to stop arresting suspects or shooting people when necessary.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman
His real problem is retardation. His main fallacy is tu quoque:
And as I have pointed out before to mad.casual, this is a false dichotomy AND a straw man.
I'm literally presenting a third (and more) option; 1. Police shoot criminals, 2. No one gets shot, 3. Civilians shoot criminals. (4. Criminals shoot civilians. 5. Criminals detain civilians...)
Again, anyone with almost literally half a brain and a functioning search engine can search up:
Average number of traffic fatalities per year: ~35,000
Average number of US homicides per year: ~15,000
Average number of workplace fatalities per year, US: ~6,000
Average number of police shootings, justified or not, per year, US: ~1,000
And realize that MWAocdoc's priorities are persisting his own stupid narrative every inch the way BLM grifters do/would. Especially in the context of Daniel Perry shooting someone in self defense when an unarmed traffic cop on the corner or actual officers and barricades keeping the protest 'in its lane' would've completely obviated the whole situation. But nope, he's got to live in his world where wild stallions run free across the hills and dells and come at his beck and call whenever he wants a ride, and nobody ever gets kicked or bitten or thrown and paralyzed or breaks a leg and has to be put down.
I don't know how you are deducing what MWAocdoc's priorities are based on his comments.
The mob basically acted in a way that confirmed Perry's low opinion of them.
If I man breaks into my house with a gun, I assume I can shoot him even if he doesn't actually point the gun at me. The question is, how did Foster behave as he approached the car? If a mob was pounding on my car, I would feel "threatened" to some degree.
That isn't "the question". That question was answered by the jury, which heard all the evidence, and together decided that Perry was guilty of murder.
Think of all the white juries that sentenced black men who dared to defend themselves to death.
And Abbott felt the jury was compromised and he was elected to have the authority to change that; and I for one agree. Maybe Governors shouldn't have that authority or it should be limited to request for a rehearing in a different court. That is something I could support.
“Which heard all the evidence”.
Liar.
LOL, yeah, a jury of Antifa sympathizers. Fuck them.
Juries make mistakes. Remember that a jury let off the cops who killed Kelly Thomas. They saw the video, the audio, the photos of the wound, witnesses, etc.
If jury verdict is enough to end all discussions of a case, then no innocent person wrongly convicted would ever get released. And the question was indeed whether the victim acted in a manner in which the shooter could reasonable interpret as threatening.
Did you hear about the students who received a settlement after the school mistook their acne mask as blackface and expelled them? The family posted all sorts of exculpatory evidence on social media, and the school ignored them. The BLM riots led to a witch hunt.
I am struck by the fact that self-defense cases often go to the survivor. Here Perry and also Rittenhouse. Had a person shot and kill Rittenhouse in Kenosha in 2020, that person could likely have made a successful case that shooting Rittenhouse was self-defense. And likely Foster could have made the case had he shot Perry.
There WAS a survivor in the Rittenhouse shooting. Gaige Grosskreutz was shot and survived. And he torpedoed the prosecution's case when he admitted he chased Rittenhouse and pointed his weapon at him first.
You are correct and had Gaige Grosskreutz shot first and killed Rittenhouse, I think he could have made the case for self-defense or that he stopped and active shooter.
That would certainly have been a stronger case than the one put on against R.
Considering he was a felon in possession of a weapon and was actively committing arson at the time, the litany of charges the prosecution could have put on Grosskreutz was astounding, and yet they did none of that, but instead persecuted their political opponents.
You are correct and had Gaige Grosskreutz shot first and killed Rittenhouse, I think he could have made the case for self-defense or that he stopped and active shooter.
LOL, no you retard. Rittenhouse was in full retreat and Grosskreutz was pursuing him with the intent to kill him. That’s part of what helped the self-defense claim to stick.
The whole fucking thing is on video, as we’ve pointed out countless times to butt-blasted leftists spouting their lies about the event.
Had Rittenhouse been shot the story would be that an active shooter who had killed 2 had been shot. The story would have been a good guy with a gun shot a bad guy. This is the simplest story to fit the facts and would have been adopted. All the support would have change to what Gaige Grosskreutz did to stop the shooter. Kyle would never be there to testify about his side. You are kidding yourself to think different.
Indulge in all the hypotheticals that you wish.
Your side lost here, and that's all that matters. Sic semper Antifae.
Ha. Haaa.
He keeps saying "the story" and "fit the facts" like he's not literally telling us "Don't believe you're lying eyes."
It's really just a waste. Even if you're trying to train up an AI to make libertarian or less arguments or something, you're really just dumping more stupid into the training set. Teaching it that "The more I hallucinate and act like people believe, cannot refute, my hallucinations, the better my predictions will get."
The pathetic part is how clever he thinks he's being, when he's really more transparent than saran wrap.
"Had Rittenhouse been shot the story would be that an active shooter who had killed 2 had been shot."
...because that's how leftard media spreads BS propaganda or what????
Shooting someone trying to defend themselves against unjust aggression isn't something you can reasonably flip on it's head. Though flipping sh*t on it's head is indeed the leftard mentality.
From Grosskreutz's perspective, Rittenhouse was an active shooter.
He was no different than the cop who killed John Hurley after Hurley stopped a mass shooter. The cop responded to a mass shooter call and saw a man with a gun. Grosskreutz heard gunshots, heard that Rittenhouse had killed someone, and saw Rittenhouse running with a rifle.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/no-charges-colorado-officer-who-killed-hero-who-stopped-mass-n1283532
Except Grosskreutz was actively committing arson at the time of the confrontation, and Rittenhouse was actively attacked by each of the people whom he shot that day.
Additionally, Grosskreutz was a felon. His mere possession of that gun should have sent him to prison for a decade.
When you attack someone or commit a crime, you don't get the right to claim self-defense. This is like a bank robber claiming that he was defending his life from the security guards.
Doesn't the crime need to be somewhat related to the shooting for that to be the case? For example, if someone is driving with a fraudulent license plate and someone pulls a gun on them I would hope they retain the right to defend themselves.
From Grosskreutz’s perspective, Rittenhouse was an active shooter.
From Grosskreutz's perspective, Rittenhouse was a resistor against his side.
That's immaterial though. Anyone with sense should know that you don't chase down an "active shooter" when he's in retreat mode TOWARD the cops, because they're just as liable to consider you a threat and put you down as they are the shooter. And citing the Hurley case simply makes that point, you slack-jawed retard.
Bullshit. Rittenhouse was RUNNING AWAY from his attackers. ON VIDEO. There couldn't be a more clear case of self-defense.
There's more than one question facing the jury when someone uses deadly force in self-defense. First, they need to determine if the person was reasonably acting in self-defense, and, secondly, whether the use of deadly force was warranted.
In his first killing, Rittenhouse was being chased by a man armed with a plastic bag, and he had thrown the plastic bag before getting shot. The jury could have reasonably decided deadly force was excessive. It's a close call.
The other two shootings are more clearly self-defense, though it's interesting that if Grosskreutz had shot and killed Rittenhouse he, too, would have had a strong self-defense and defense of others defense for his actions. Likewise, had Huber managed to injure or kill Rittenhouse with his skateboard instead of getting killed himself, he, too, would have had a strong defense.
Thank you for understanding my point of view. I am in no way saying that Rittenhouse's claim was wrong. I am only saying that a survivor has an advantage in the self-defense argument.
You are an idiot. If you are openly carrying, and some guy threatens you and chases you, you have every right to assume that the guy, when he sets upon you, will attempt to take your gun, and then, of course, all bets are off.
The other issue, dipshit, is that the jury may "think" that the shooting was excessive, but where's the evidence BRD that the force was NOT justified?
In his first killing, Rittenhouse was being chased by a man armed with a plastic bag, and he had thrown the plastic bag before getting shot.
You mean the same guy who was shown on video screaming at people, “Shoot me, nigga! Shoot me, nigga!” not 30 minutes earlier?
Sounds like Foster and Rosenbaum BOTH got what they wanted. And you conveniently left out the fact that Rosenbaum grabbed the barrel of the gun before he got shot. Rittenhouse didn’t randomly plug the guy, Rosenbaum was trying to take his gun away from him, and what set him off in the first place was Rittenhouse trying to put out the literal trash fire in the dumpster he started.
I am struck by the fact that self-defense cases often go to the survivor.
It shouldn't be that striking. First of all, the reasonable doubt standard means that one party to the conflict not being available to refute what the survivor claims, there is a lot of room for reasonable doubt in cases without good witnesses or video recordings. Also, because people can only make their best guess as to the intentions of another person based on behavior, it is quite possible, and likely frequently the case, that both parties to a self-defense killing may well have had a legitimate self-defense claim had they prevailed.
In the Rittenhouse case, I'm afraid you may be right that the dude who got his arm shot could have been acquitted on self-defense grounds. But I think a good prosecutor with access to the video showing Rittenhouse being chased by an armed man, and almost getting his head smashed in with a skateboard would be able to make a strong case for murder.
What would you do if faced with a guy armed with an AK pointed at you? It seems to me that self defense is the only possible option, aside from being murdered.
I cannot agree. As several of my colleagues have mentioned, this is ignoring the fact
First, the defendants tweets and private messages should have been excluded and non-admissible. If they were to be admitted, the headlines from the weeks prior showing people being pulled from their cars and beaten within inches of their lives should also be considered.
Secondly, given the circumstances, I cannot see how anyone could argue that he was not acting in self defense. It wasn't like he plowed through a barricade into a parade. He was driving on a normal road and was surrounded by people who were beating on his car. The man whom he shot was wielding a firearm while participating in a violent mob.
I cannot fathom an argument that can not conclude that every person in that crowd is guilty of aggravated assault.
“Daniel Perry’s Pardon Makes a Mockery of Self-Defense”
Billy is quite simply wrong here. Although there is certainly room for disagreement over the governor’s pardon and his motivation for granting it, there is no doubt that the governor has the authority to grant pardons in such cases or that there is a serious question of injustice leading to Perry’s conviction. Whether we sympathize with Perry or think he’s a jerk is irrelevant to either the conviction or the pardon. A pardon in this case doesn’t even come close to a “mockery” of self-defense. Not all such cases are as clear-cut as Binion seems to desire. Sometimes messy cases test the boundaries. All of us should desire that no one be convicted and punished for serious crimes when there is doubt about the facts, and THIS case is clearly one of those instances. Perry was convicted by a jury who many of us would not have agreed with unanimously given the same set of circumstances.
He may have been looking for a fight, but so was the other guy. I don't see what the fuss is about. Did anyone expect Air Force to beat Army in a street battle?
And hey, the protesters are all about free passes for violent criminals. If Daniel Perry is in fact the latter, then they can put that in the "win" column.
"Don't take your guns to town, son..."
- Johnny Cash
In a comment in another post, I wrote that if I were a district attorney or a state's attorney, I would prosecute Democrats regardless of how nonsensical my legal arguments are.
Pardoning Perry is just retaliatory lawfare.
We must become the party of Demona!
What's revealing about this article is that Binion seemingly uses the Perry's social media post as evidence of his guilt. It kinda goes against Reason's position on the government surveillance of social media in the name of fighting extremism and misinformation.
BLM has its own history of violent rhetoric. Can I use their social media post as evidence in similar case? "Kill all the fascist pigs and Jews" Yeah you'll find something to that effect on X if you tried hard enough. Wouldn't take long.
Did Perry drive to the site to commit a crime? Does he have a pattern of violence against protesters? Then his social media posts are irrelevant. We have people here urging politicians to be fed to woodchippers. It's called hyperbole. Using hyperbole against rioters is as common as..... comments you read on this very site.
Binion's position here just seem so painfully unlibertarian. If a crowd starts to bang on my car and make threats, I have every reason to be spooked. If I also saw a man approach my car, I would scared out of my mind. Binion would feel the SAME way if this happened to him and his wife and children were inside the car. Whatever social media post he made or we made isn't all that relevant.
The asinine prosecutions against Donald Trump are far more than enough reason to pardon Daniel Perry.
This is not and should never be a tit-for-tat. That's not justice.
Perry had a very valid, almost textbook, claim to self defense and his social media postings and political opinions are irrelevant. That's the only thing that matters.
Binion’s position here just seem so painfully unlibertarian. /
reason
FREE MINDS AND FREE MARKETSPAINFULLY UNLIBERTARIAN
Binion misses an important point---Perry had a right to be where he was.
It is absolutely true that the right to self-defense is vital. And to argue that Perry—who, prior to killing Foster at a 2020 Black Lives Matter protest, wrote that he wanted to "shoot the [protesters] in the front and push the pedal to the metal"—acted in self-defense is to make a total mockery of that right and those who've had to exercise it.
Do we then ignore Foster, who while AT the protest, while HOLDING the gun he would later point at Perry, making the same type of 'tuffgai' comments to interviewers? That he made them with about the same frequency as Penny?
Except--he WAS menacing people at protests. And he WAS threatening people with his gun as he illegally impeded them as they were driving.
But, Billy, let me make it plain.
Do you know when he had the right to shoot Foster and every single one of the rest of them? The second they stopped his car their lives were forfeit.
Because, while you may have the right to protest, you don't have the right to imprison.
It's ok to threaten people or fear for your life if you are a minority right? That's what I get here.
People can block the road. Drag you out of cars. But as long as they support Billy, Chemjeff, Sq, and Pedo - it's ok.
"And to argue that Perry—who, prior to killing Foster at a 2020 Black Lives Matter protest, wrote that he wanted to "shoot the [protesters] in the front and push the pedal to the metal"—acted in self-defense is to make a total mockery of that right and those who've had to exercise it."
What? It was a clear case of self-defense. The pardon STRENGTHENS self-defense.
If you have to shoot someone NEVER talk to the police before you have a lawyer AT YOUR SIDE. Never!
"YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT" always - from the moment of birth until death. USE IT. Shut your mouth and KEEP it shut.