Trump's Demand for 'Total' Presidential Immunity Reflects His Authoritarian Impulses
The former president argues that accountability is the enemy of effectiveness, both for cops and for politicians.

Donald Trump's lawyers argue that he cannot be prosecuted for his "official acts" as president, which they say included his efforts to reverse Joe Biden's election. As one judge noted when a skeptical D.C. Circuit panel probed the implications of that position earlier this month, it could literally give presidents a license to kill by ordering the assassination of their political opponents. But even that alarmingly broad understanding of presidential immunity seems modest compared to the position that Trump recently laid out in an all-caps Truth Social post.
"A PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES MUST HAVE FULL IMMUNITY, WITHOUT WHICH IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR HIM/HER TO PROPERLY FUNCTION," Trump shouted on his social media site around 1 a.m. on Thursday. "ANY MISTAKE, EVEN IF WELL INTENDED, WOULD BE MET WITH ALMOST CERTAIN INDICTMENT BY THE OPPOSING PARTY AT TERM END. EVEN EVENTS THAT 'CROSS THE LINE' MUST FALL UNDER TOTAL IMMUNITY, OR IT WILL BE YEARS OF TRAUMA TRYING TO DETERMINE GOOD FROM BAD. THERE MUST BE CERTAINTY."
To some extent, Trump's rant echoes the argument his lawyers have made in trying to block the federal charges he faces as a result of his attempts to remain in power after he lost reelection in 2020. But "TOTAL IMMUNITY" as imagined by Trump omits two qualifications they allow: that a former president can be prosecuted for "purely private conduct," and that he can be prosecuted even for "official acts" if they were the basis for an impeachment that resulted in a Senate conviction. The latter exception is hard to deny, since the Constitution explicitly says a president who is impeached and removed from office "shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law."
Trump, by contrast, says "ALL PRESIDENTS MUST HAVE COMPLETE & TOTAL PRESIDENTIAL IMMUNITY, OR THE AUTHORITY & DECISIVENESS OF A PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES WILL BE STRIPPED & GONE FOREVER." The implication seems to be that Trump would be immune from prosecution even if his second impeachment had culminated in a Senate conviction. And that would be true even if the impeachment had involved actions that Trump himself thinks "CROSS THE LINE" between legitimate exercises of presidential power and criminality, such as the scenario that D.C. Circuit Judge Florence Pan imagined when she described a president who "ordered SEAL Team Six to assassinate a political rival."
Trump's concerns about the consequences of holding public officials accountable for misconduct extend beyond the prosecution of former presidents. In his Truth Social post, he likened that situation to safeguards aimed at preventing police officers from violating people's constitutional rights. "YOU CAN'T STOP POLICE FROM DOING THE JOB OF STRONG & EFFECTIVE CRIME PREVENTION BECAUSE YOU WANT TO GUARD AGAINST THE OCCASIONAL 'ROGUE COP' OR 'BAD APPLE,'" he wrote. "SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO LIVE WITH 'GREAT BUT SLIGHTLY IMPERFECT.'"
In Trump's view, remedies for police abuse, such as insisting that officers obey the Constitution or authorizing criminal charges and civil rights lawsuits when they don't, are dangerous to public order because they threaten to "STOP POLICE FROM DOING THE JOB OF STRONG & EFFECTIVE CRIME PREVENTION." If tolerating "THE OCCASIONAL 'ROGUE COP' OR 'BAD APPLE'" is the price of fighting crime, he thinks, "SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO LIVE WITH 'GREAT BUT SLIGHTLY IMPERFECT.'"
So Trump is not necessarily just trying to save his own skin here: His position on presidential immunity is consistent with his broader attitude toward government power. Just as presidents should not have to worry about criminal prosecution when they "CROSS THE LINE," he thinks, police officers should not have to worry that they could face charges or litigation simply because they broke the law, and maybe a few heads, while doing their jobs.
Trump has explicitly made that argument in recent campaign appearances. "We will restore law and order in our communities," he said in New Hampshire last month. "I'm going to indemnify, through the federal government, all police officers and law enforcement officials throughout the United States from being destroyed by the radical left for taking strong actions against crime."
That proposal ignores the fact that police officers already are routinely indemnified by their employers when they face civil rights lawsuits. Worse, it reflects a judgment that the threat of legal liability is intolerable because it supposedly has a paralyzing impact on law enforcement. Police officers must be shielded "against any and all liability," Trump argues, because otherwise they will be "forced to let a lot of bad people do what they want to do." As Trump sees it, accountability is the enemy of effectiveness.
The same authoritarian impulse is evident in Trump's distaste for police restraint. In a 2017 speech at Long Island's Suffolk County Community College, he derided officers who protect handcuffed arrestees from injury by pushing down their heads while placing them in squad cars. "You can take the hand off," he said. The Suffolk County Police Department responded with a statement saying it takes procedures aimed at protecting arrestees "extremely seriously," adding that "we do not and will not tolerate roughing up of prisoners."
Trump's implicit endorsement of roughing up prisoners is of a piece with his oft-repeated support for executing drug dealers and his admiration for brutal rulers in China, Russia, North Korea, and the Philippines. Republican presidential candidate Nikki Haley remarked on that affinity in the run-up to Tuesday's primary in New Hampshire. Trump had a "bromance with Putin," exchanged "love letters" with Kim Jong Un, and praised Xi Jinping "a dozen times after China gave us COVID," she said. "When you are talking about contrasts in foreign policy, you don't praise dictators and thugs who want to kill us."
Whatever the relative merits of Haley's foreign policy positions, the pattern she noted is further evidence of Trump's view that strong leaders must be free to take decisive action, unencumbered by the law. That is the plain meaning of his position on presidential immunity. The "CERTAINTY" he demands is "GREAT" for dictators but more than "SLIGHTLY IMPERFECT" for the rest of us.
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Donald Trump not a nice person, Jacob Sullum discovers. Congratulations, Jake, you're making progress! Does this mean you're going to stop making all those "Get Out of Jail Free" cards for Trump? I'll be watching!
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Fuck off, fascist. You don't get to imprison your party's political opponents for made-up crimes, no matter how mad they make you.
Hey, get woke! Democracy! now means ad hoc governing by feelz. And laws (and norms) are only for good people.
Stealing classified materials and spearheading an attempted coup are crimes that are quite real.
So why aren’t you screaming for Biden to be removed for doing all that?
Biden gave back all the documents promptly. Trump did not and he lied about them. All the charges about Trump are after he was told to give them back.
No he didn't. He had them for decades. Documents he didn't even have a fig leaf of authority to have. He *stole them in the first place*.
Hey Shill, what was the difference between a president taking home his papers and a vice-president? I’ll give you a hint, go read on the Clinton decision in Judicial Watch vs the National Archives & Records Administration.
But you knew that didn’t you? Fucking fascist.
You're making excuses for a illegal charge.
Not just as VP but also senator.
Here we go with the "biden cooperated" nonsense again.
Only took him what, 6 - 15 years?
No he didn't. He held on to them for months before he notified anybody. He had documents for decades.
How do you know that? And Trump had the authority to take them as president. Biden is just a thief, as he was stealing for decades and only a senator.
You’re such a lying cunt, and the funny thing is you’re not even good at it.
"attempted coup"
Are you joking, or are you really that stupid?
Do you have another name for a two month long coordinated illegal effort to overturn an election and install an unelected President? The violence on J6 was just sewage icing on the toxic cake.
Yes, Molly is really that stupid.
Sadly, this is only a fraction of her stupidity.
Molly belongs in a landfill.
"Do you have another name for a two month long coordinated illegal effort to overturn an election and install an unelected President?"
Yes, election fraud and an FBI op in collusion with the speaker's office. With all the video, emails and records, either you've been living under a rock, or you're lying.
But I can't have an abortion up to birth...
So when is Biden going to be prosecuted.
Why would Biden be prosecuted? He has total presidential immunity.
And Biden is getting away with it.
According to Trump, Biden has total presidential immunity.
So true but the trumpists will never concede that point. It is just too simple to grasp.
Durrr, I can use words like "trumpists" so I don't need to make an argument. Durrrrr.
Then why didn't Hildabeast get busted for having classified emails on an unsecured server and then intentionally destroying evidence?
You don't know? Because Trump's own FBI Director decided not to prosecute her, wasn't it?
Personally, I think she should have been prosecuted.
They'd have impeached Trump for that.
Attempted coup? You people truly are mentally deranged. The fucking coup that was attempted, you sack of sh**, was the Democrats trying to remove a duly elected president for 4 4ucking years plus. Trump, on the other hand, says do everything legally possible, and you re7ards call that a coup? Your idiocy is only outmatched by your stupidity.
You are right. As a beneficiary of total presidential immunity, President Biden must immediately order Seal Team 6 to take out former president Trump.
Sullum has 4th degree TDS. He fails to understand that you need to take Trump seriously, but not literally. He exaggerates for impact and slowpoke Sullum takes it in. Fortunately for us, Sullum will have 5 more years to complain and make a fool of himself.
Mean tweets '24 !!
Aalan Vanaman and Sullum are both TDS-addled steaming piles of shit.
Democrats have no right to exist.
I love how you guys always pile in on each other. It's touching.
Cuties..cuties..cuties are for Jacob I guess.
"...... OR THE AUTHORITY & DECISIVENESS OF A PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES WILL BE STRIPPED & GONE FOREVER."
is this supposed to be an argument against holding presidents accountable? the authority of the office of president needs to be stripped, as it holds far more power than was ever intended.
still waiting for those who believe this horseshit to explain why Ford had to pardon Nixon.
Ford had to pardon Nixon to avoid having to deal with this problem.
so, Ford knew Nixon would end up in court and it would be a shit show because the immunity trump wants is imaginary........
Trump wants to be immune.... he isn't.
Ford knew Nixon would end up in court and it would be a shit show...
That's all you had to say. Because this is winding up where it is, Ford was right that it would've been a shit show. Sometimes it's best to leave some things alone, like that rock over there. You might not like what's under it.
make no mistake.... i have never said any of the indictments were wise. i have explicitly said that some of them were flat out stupid. (the hush money case, in particular.)
but the idea that they should be totally immune is nothing short of absurd, and is based on nothing more than wishful thinking from a man who can't come up with a better defense.
Why should a president be beholden to a political decision from a local DA? DAs often haven different interpretations of law. Even the circuit courts do. So youre opening up criminal judgements against what has been considered an immunity for official acts due to disagreement in law implemented by political actors.
It is weird you admit their are political legal attacks against Trump, but then ignore the outcome of defending said attacks against a president.
the lack of merit will ultimately make things worse for those who file the bad charges than for Trump. backlash and consequences are why most sane DA's avoid going after a president. the charges really mean nothing to a former president UNLESS there is merit. (i have no doubt Trump has pocketed buckets of money off that.)
which, of course, is why this "immunity" pipe dream was not invoked for the NY hush money case. a first year paralegal could get a not guilty in that case brought on a DA's whim........ the "immunity" BS only materialized for defense in the election interference charges, which do not fit the characterization you are trying to paint of overzealous "local" DA's. (i know, it makes a great talking point because the NY case is so terrible..... but that isn't where this immunity nonsense came from.)
the lack of merit will ultimately make things worse for those who file the bad charges than for Trump.
Lol. The naivete at display. Jack Smith has already lost at the USSC 0-8 regarding a twisting of the law to go after a politician. He sure had things made worse for him.
i suppose the word "ultimately" made that just too complex an idea for you to digest.
So what has happened to jack Smith in the last decade dummy?
Ironically he had prosecutorial immunity.
Youre not that bright are you.
Sane DA’s are in short supply, mostly in Democrat run big cities.
It’s part of the Soros plan. That’s why he spent millions getting those radical DA’s elected.
Except this has implicitly been claimed by multiple presidents of both parties.
Awesome.
And Joe Biden won't be either. Or Obama.
Be careful what you wish for , fascist. Democrat won't be in office forever.
you seem to have missed the part where i said the authority of the office of president needs to be stripped. unlike the trump worshipers, i hold to my principles in both directions..... i really don't see any problem with holding Trump accountable meaning Biden can also be held accountable. go for it. i want anyone holding that office to know they are not kings.
Accountable to politically motivated novel interpretation of the law?
That is what these people seem to forget.
Maybe that is what Foo_dd means.
He's in favor of putting everyone in politics in jail all at once for any and every reason no matter how spurious?
If so, I'd like to know if you have a newsletter.
I'm not saying it would break my heart if all politicians went to jail....... but saying that is my desired outcome is kind of admitting that they would all be found guilty.... including the orange Jesus.....
Since I don't support Trump, I'd consider that a fair trade personally.
well then, to be clear..... i am not saying i want them all locked up. i am not even saying with any certainty that Trump should be..... i am only saying that no elected official is above the law, and this is what they risk if they even test that idea.
i don't agree with all the charges Trump is facing, and i expect at least half to be thrown out..... but the idea that we can't even question if he broke the law is an affront to the rule of law. completely meritless charges will fail and those who bring them risk libel charges for themselves.
and as much as the trump worshipers cry about all this, it is actually helping him politically.
as i said in the other comment you replied to... there is a difference between legal and wise. that DA in NY will regret what he has done, when all is said and done. of note, is that nobody tried to claim immunity for that case. the immunity horseshit didn't come up until he ran into charges that were not so easy to deal with.
So your defense of politically motivated criminal investigations is that at some point a DA may feel bad? After causing a defendant millions in costs?
What the fuck is wrong with you?
if you think trump is losing.... and not making..... millions off of this, you are even stupider than i thought.
but then, you think "feeling bad" is the only negative that comes from prosecuting (and almost definitely failing to convict) a former president with a cult following....... so i have probably been greatly underestimating your stupidity to begin with.
His net worth has dropped retard. And even if you clIm he is profiting, the state has cost him millions in fees and legal bills.
Just admit you support state abuse of political opponents retard.
i know he has been raising millions off the press over his legal troubles. i don't know if it has been enough to offset half the population avoiding his hotels, but i know any net drop is not due to these legal issues.
and you are the one who is supporting abuse by the state with your insistence that there can be no consequences for a person sitting at the top of the state's power who chooses to abuse that power. your argument is basically that trump should be immune BECAUSE he was the head of the state. all hail the state (as long as it is your team in power.).
Trump actually tried to reduce the power of the executive branch you dumb bitch. Biden ignores SCOTUS and attempted to create a government body to control speech.
It is clearly still an open question whether the immunity Trump claims is constitutional or not.
Also, Trump isn't exactly known for speaking with a lot of precision and consistency. Probably better to look at the arguments his lawyers are actually making rather than an all-caps social media post.
i've seen the lawyers statements..... trump isn't being as hyperbolic as is common for him.
as for the constitutionality of it, there isn't any question except the one that Trump wants to PREETEND exists. swinging back to Ford and Nixon, nobody ever thought for one second that Nixon could not be dragged into court.... which is why, as you have admitted, Ford pardoned him.
trump's immunity argument is pure fantasy.
Nixon faced an impeachment dumbass.
directly from the US constitution:
"......and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."
the president's pardon power does not cover impeachments....... dumbass.
Ford's pardon was of any federal crimes Nixon might be charged with, and had nothing to do with impeachments. (because.... as you have had explained to you before.... impeachment becomes irrelevant after someone has left office.)
He was never actually charged you fucking retard. The move was state to stop the political abuse of the criminal system before it started. Nixon had impeachment papers filed. He resigned. Ford simply wanted the political fighting to stop. The resignation and pardon came BECAUSE the GOP was going to impeach.
God damn some of you are ignorant of reality.
Nixon resigned to avoid the impeachment. Ford pardoned him to avoid the criminal charges.
the president cannot prevent or pardon impeachment proceedings. the impeachment proceedings became moot with Nixon's resignation. ford preemptively pardoned him to prevent him being charged. (because.... he could still be charged even though the impeachment was no longer valid.)
and speaking of fucking retards...... Nixon was a republican, you stupid fuck.... it is one thing to be stupid enough to think he had to be impeached first, it is quite another to think it was his own party planning to do it. JFC, you are a moron.
Nixon was the progenitor for Romney, McConnell, and the Cheneys. Not a conservative like Reagan. Unfortunately a leftist like you cant understand such things.
In 1960 Nixon showed grace and character when he accepted the most fraudulent Presidential election in US history.
In 1974 Ford showed wisdom and character when he pardoned Nixon to save the country from a divisive mess.
In 2020 and 23 the Donkeys showed they are asses when they impeached Trump for trivialities and pursued lawfare to try to keep him out of office.
When Trump becomes president again, I hope he has more class than the Donkeys but applies just enough payback to prevent this from becoming the natural course of events.
if you think trump responds to anything with "class" you have not been paying much attention.
Well, Trump’s responses are vastly superior to the Biden standard of pooping pants.
speaking of classy....
Get your head out of Reason's and CNN's ass.
We are seeing in real time democrat elected DAs go after presidents. Often with novel criminal construction.
Or did you not notice? You want a president checking with every DA in the country? What happens of State A AG disagrees with State B AG? Can they go after each other when the other makes a political prosecution? There is a reason that immunity for official acts has been a common legal acceptance for over 200 years. Now you and Sullum want to bring in political actors influencing an elected official.
I'm still trying to understand your state A vs state B AG argument. State AG's can only prosecute crimes that happened in their state. How will a State A vs B disagreement happen? If a crime happened in state A, state B's AG's opinion is irrelevant.
Right now we are seeing a charge against Trump regarding a conspiracy to alter an election, State A. Now the Texas AG decides this prosecution is political and goes after state B and charges that AG with conspiracy to alter an election.
It isnt difficult.
Can even simply use Texas going after the Colorado judges or the Maine SOS who decided to remove a constitutionally valid candidate.
Texas has no jurisdiction to charge anyone in State A, B, Colorado or Maine for anything that happens outside of Texas.
Sure they can. States have already sued. They can use the same RICO construction Dani did. Most of her evidence were for things outside of the state of GA.
Who is suing the Georgia DA?
Anyway, suing is civil, so no criminal charges.
Fani is even lower than a state AG. Who conspiracy charges include things outside of Georgia. Actions taken outside of the state. You make my point even greater.
Trump is under criminal charges, not civil.
The suing was showing a state can sue another for their actions.
Not sure where you are not connecting the dots.
Fani claims electoral fraud including actions outside of the state. What limits another state from claiming she is committing electoral fraud with a false charge? There is no limiting factor here.
Not sure where you are not connecting the dots.
Same
The Train is moving. There is going to be one hellva campaign. Francas Marion versus Trotsky it seems. I will leave it up to you to figure out who is Trotsky and who is Marion.
And to further the point. An example from the 14 nonsense.
More states have dismissed the question of Trumps removal based on the 14th. 2 have. Now you have a disagreement between states. Similar to a circuit split.
So if 49 out of 50 AGs determine no cause of a criminal act, but 1 out of 50 does, how do you resolve said conflict. In your argument you seem to be stating the 1 out of 50 wins. It was a federal election. Georgia literally indicted him for speech, calls, and petitioning the courts. Most state AGs refuse to call that a conspiracy, 1 county in GA decided it was. Yet you seem to believe the 1 county can over rule the decisions of every other DA in the country. This is why impeachment is the method per the constitution.
The CO/ME issue is specific to 14A, regarding insurrection, which Trump has not been charged by any state so I don’t find it irrelevant to this topic of immunity. In this case, it is handled on the federal level. SCOTUS determines whether or not a candidate belongs on a federal ballot.
As for Georgia, they get to charge for crimes that took place in their jurisdictions. They are not over-ruling other DA’s that didn’t charge because those DA’s have no jurisdiction over that county. The rest of the nation can vote for Trump anyway.
I meant "I don't find it relevant"
Actually, I believe the amendment says Congress decides. The USSC will determine whether they have, or what that means. In any case, it's clear that it doesn't say, 'some unelected official in Maine' or 'a court in Colorado'.
Yes, I must have worded it poorly, because I agree with your correction without realizing what it's correcting.
The conspiracy charge includes actions that occurred outside of Ga...
Getting in the weeds here… The charges are conspiracy to overturn the Georgia election results, therefore the crime, if it occurred, occurred against Georgia. The physical location of the defendant need not be in the jurisdiction.
A DA in Texas couldn’t charge Trump with conspiracy to overturn Georgia’s election.
Anyway, I get the jist of your argument. We disagree on the facts, but I’m sympathetic to your position. I just feel DA’s political attacks on a president are a lesser evil than total immunity for presidents.
Again. More slowly.
The indictment. Includes. Actions. Outside. Of. Georgia.
They brought in acts in Michigan and I believe Wisconsin. They worked with WH lawyers and the J6 committee.
It isnt solely regarding Georgia.
I give up.
"And to further the point."
you mean "lets jump tracks because my argument isn't that strong and i will assume you support something else you don't actually support."
no matter my personal opinion on which, if any, charges Trump might be guilty of..... due process is due process. he can't be kept of the ballot for anything he has not had his day in court for. the one thing those trying to keep him off the ballot and the idiots buying the "immunity" BS have in common is that you are BOTH trying to side step due process.
Due process for official acts is impeachment. Then wasn't even a discussion point for 200 years.
you are just too stupid for words.
impeachment is for sitting officials and becomes irrelevant once they are out of office. the constitution says this:
"Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States;"
in other words, removing someone from office is the ONLY thing an impeachment is for.
impeachments in practice are also about as far from due process as you can get. there is plenty of documentation that the founders didn't really like the process, because it tends to be more political than rational, but they knew they had to have some mechanism to remove people from office and couldn't think of a better way. (but i guess you want to count it if your "team" has enough seats to block a conviction there.)
It really is like arguing with a fucking toddler.
When did the acts the left is trying to criminalize occur?
"When did the acts the left is trying to criminalize occur?"
well, the first problem with your blind adherence to the talking points is..... which ones? some happened while he was president, others (the ones most of your talking points revolve around, with politically motivated DA's) happened before he was president. (effectively negating the rest of your talking points completely.)
the second problem is that it does not really matter. we've talked of Nixon elsewhere on this thread..... him being president when he broke the law didn't matter, Ford still had to pardon him to stop the criminal proceedings. (ford having absolutely no authority over impeachment.)
impeachments are for removing someone from office.
impeachments become irrelevant once someone leaves office.
none of that makes any person totally above the law.
You truly are the fucking toddler here. You've no idea what you’re talking about. Here’s a link for you so you can stop sounding so dumb: Definition of: ‘impeachment’ is: ”. Learn more at: ‘https://www.dictionary.com/browse/impeachment’
Foo is the only one getting it wrong here.
Immunity for official acts is necessary because of the possibility of novel criminal construction.
your talking points seem to rely pretty heavily on the NY DA, who i have already mentioned will suffer for his stupidity...... unfortunately, that isn't the case where trump is trying to say he should be immune.
i also see that your talking points are starting to collide..... because that politically motivated DA brought charges for something from BEFORE he was president, so the "official acts" does not even apply to it.
I know. I've only mentioned Georgia a half dozen times.
Youre not very smart.
not in response to me. i was actually giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were focusing on the one set of indictments that were obviously politically motivated trash.......so i guess you are abandoning the argument of loads of DA's bringing unfounded charges.... to one democratic DA bringing charges valid enough that at least 4 of the people involved have plead guilty....... my how your talking points have crumbled.
If we don’t get rid of the democrats, the country will soon collapse. Is this not obvious to everyone?
They aren’t worth it. Scrape them off.
*chefs kiss*
This is prime Sullum. Primo primo stuff.
Drivel.
Haley 2024. Let's go, Nikki !
*barf*
Darling Nikki
Lyrics
"I knew a girl named Nikki
I guess you could say she was a sex fiend
I met her in a hotel lobby
Masturbating with a magazine
She said, "How'd you like to waste some time?"
And I could not resist when I saw little Nikki grind"
Prince was one dirty motherfucker.
Oddly, this would be a better fit in ENB's pr0n thread above.
could sarc be arrested in Oklahoma for posting Prince lyrics?
Sure. Meanwhile, why don't you and Nikki go make us some sandwiches.
ENB can serve them.
Donnie does pal around with dictators.
We all saw him French-Kiss Vlad in Helsinki. Collusion at its finest.
“Hey Vlad. Don’t worry about NATO. Just keep fucking with our elections”
Shit Pluggo, did he hand them a “reset” button too?
"“Hey Vlad. Don’t worry about NATO. Just keep fucking with our elections”"
This is bait. Buttplug knows it isn't true, but he's been getting off on being called "pedo" lately.
Ot as much as he gets off on raping toddlers.
You still believe in that highly discredited Russia crappola? How 2016 of you. Now, why do you have a "2" after your name, pedo?
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
"Trump's Demand for 'Total' Presidential Immunity Reflects His Authoritarian Impulses"
Authoritarian impulses like smearing protesters as insurrectionists, ordering social media companies to censor dissent, and trying to jail your political opponent on frivolous charges for non-existent crimes?
Because the Biden administration has already done all that and you didn't raise a peep, you fucking phoney. Everything your fussing about is being actually done - right fucking now - by the administration, and you don't actually even care.
just so you understand, all the shit you just complained about is something trump wants to make it impossible to hold Biden accountable for. he wants total immunity for ANY president.
Me today, you tomorrow.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that Biden should be criminally charged for those things after he leaves office (correct me if I am wrong). Some of those things should probably be impeachable offenses.
"I don’t think anyone is suggesting that Biden should be criminally charged for those things after he leaves office"
I know I didn't, but "implying" does most of the heavy lifting for the DNC commenters here.
Biden is guilty of a number of impeachable offensives. His complete dereliction of executive constitutional duty to protect our southern border for one.
When has a President been accountable for their actions in the past 30 years?
Trump is perhaps the single most investigated President in the entirety of U.S. history, and yet not a single thing he's been investigated for has borne fruit.
Trump gave Hillary a pass after he won the election. Biden's administration has been investigating Trump since day one.
Yeah, Trump is gross. So is everyone else in politics last I checked. Somehow the establishment still manages to be worse, which is frankly impressive.
"not a single thing he’s been investigated for has borne fruit."
See the House Report on J6. Also the photos of all the classified documents he stole.
Damn, you're either:
a) really fucking gullible,
b) really fucking stupid,
c) a Democrat sycophant, or
d) all of the above.
She gives shrike a run for his money, I’ll give her that.
It's a guy with a thing for MDMA and ass sex.
lol, seems just as likely as anything else.
Pile, pile, pile...
From that illegally constructed kangaroo committee? The one that manufactured the made-for-TV proceedings?
https://nypost.com/2024/01/22/news/house-jan-6-committee-deleted-more-than-100-encrypted-files-days-before-gop-took-majority-sources/
You mean the House report supported by all those documents that the Democrat + RINO J6 committee destroyed before the new House could convene? The one with a fraction of surviving evidence? That House report? How smelly do things have to get before you notice?
I wouldn’t lull too hard on that J6 thread you dumb cunt. What unravels is not what your retarded little mind thinks.
“trump wants to make it impossible to hold Biden accountable for.”
But not Mayorkas, Wray, Garland or the hundreds of other little deep-state trolls who did the work and gave him the ideas.
You’re deliberately conflating the actions of the administration with the actions of the president. Garland didn’t just go to Biden and say “We’re going to be harassing parents at school board meetings, okay?” Wray didn’t go to Biden and say he was going to demand that the social media companies censor posts.
They took direction from the senile goat, but they bear responsibility themselves for violating their oath.
Though I don’t disagree with you that the office holds way too much power, that power
isn’t going to be dissipated by finally closing the walls on Trump. So, I’m actually fine with that, unless he gets impeached and convicted by the Senate.
The bureaucrat goons on the other hand…
Fuck off and die, steaming pile of lefty shit,
Trump wants SEAL Team 6 to be standing by, just not before January 20, 2025...
Oooh. This should be fun.
>>Reflects His Authoritarian Impulses
nothing starts a Monday off better than a Sullum psychoanalysis piece.
If Biden is immune from the Constitution, then Trump should be immune from mere nasty tweets.
So remind me again, Jacob, how many executive orders has Biden issued?
(For those whose web is broken)
As of January 18, 2024, President Joe Biden (D) had signed 128 executive orders, 166 presidential memoranda, 552 proclamations, and 109 notices.
It looks like Trump signed 202 Executive Orders during his presidency. Biden still has a year to go, so it is not clear whether or not he will exceed Trump's figure.
Was that your point?
Executive orders are directives to the federal departments that the president is in charge of. They have zero meaning outside of that context. They are completely normal and legal in general.
Executive orders tell the three letter agencies how the president wants to fuck with your everyday life because Congress “isn’t doing their job”.
Nope. The SCOTUS has had to slap him down several times over illegal orders that require congressional action. Biden is a lawless piece of shit. Just like the rest of you democrats.
"hey have zero meaning outside of that context."
Then explain how Biden is forgiving student debt, despite what the Supreme Court said.
"Well, see ... when you're bargaining, you take an extreme position you know you can't achieve and the other guy takes the opposite extreme and then you agree to meet in the middle." - The Art of the Deal by Donald Trump, 1987. Also, "You're Fired!" Jan 6
Everyone in the room knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that many Presidents have ordered the execution of many men (usually on foreign soil), and not only have they not been prosecuted for it but (as long as the man terminated with extreme prejudice was not the head of state of a foreign nation) they usually boasted of the success. Old, tired, stale argument that we couldn't get anyone to do the government jobs if they feared punishment for their official actions is getting older, more tired and staler by the minute.
So he'll be a dictator for half a day?
If Trump wins, he'll go full authoritarian and use sympathetic DAs to prosecute his political opponents for nakedly partisan reasons.
Oh noes!
If only that were true. It will be a great day when the last Marxist is put down
He needs to give that caps lock key a rest.
Presidents should be shielded from prosecution for Official acts taken during their presidency. The proper avenue would be to impeach and convict them through the legislative branch. If convicted, then they should be subjected to criminal prosecution.
I would advocate impeachment of past and current living presidents, Carter, Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden. At times criminal actions are not apparent during their presidency and is revealed after they have left office. The purpose of having the legislative branch is to reduce the chaos and the "tit for tat" that would result if anyone could prosecute a president during their term.
It is very apparent that the mediocre president Trump while in office was dogged with false allegations are a continual basis. While I dislike and distrust the narcissistic Trump, he had been unfairly targeted in a very partisan way.
Absolute immunity would require that even impeachment would not be permitted.
Hey. Shrike is still retarded. Thats not what it means.
Shreek, why do you say such retarded things? Are you that stupid? Or just completely disingenuous?
I genuinely want to know.
Presidents should be shielded from prosecution for Official acts taken during their presidency. The proper avenue would be to impeach and convict them through the legislative branch.
Just so we're clear, what this means in practice is that presidents are allowed to get away with illegal acts as long as they aren't so terrible that his lackeys in the House & Senate can go along with it.
So assassination is right out. But, a little bit of obstruction of justice? Presidents will be permitted to do that.
So, uh, Jeffy, are they vermin?
That's not what he said at all.
Of course it's not what he said. It is instead the very predictable result of what he said.
Your perception of ‘predictable’ is just as worthless as you are.
So basically, Jeffy, you made up shit (again) and passed it off as fact. There's a word for that somewhere...
Do you really not realize that every president has done that? We’re a little late in the game to start now (I’m also not convinced it would be used against anyone else unless we got a Milei in office by some miracle).
Do you really not realize that every president has done that?
Really? Do you have a specific example in mind?
To be clear, I was referring to illegal acts in general, not anything specific. But I’m sure one could argue that Clinton and Bush obstructed justice (probably Bush Sr. And Regan too, not sure about Obama). Obama executed at least two American Citizens without trial or conviction. I’m sure I could dig up more.
FDR locked up 70,000 Japanese citizens for the crime of being Japanese. That is surely among the lowest, most criminal acts of any President in US history.
And that f*ing a*hole has a monument on the Mall. SICK.
Woodrow Wilson and Abraham Lincoln both locked up people for criticizing them.
FDR is still a hero to the leftists.
*sigh*
More TDS crap.
Sullum, the wallz r clozin in! right? So what are you worried about. Totally clean and above-board prosecutor Fani Willis will do him in. If not her, then the SoS that are 'protecting our precious democracy' by giving in to their totalitarian impulses and unilaterally removing Trump from their state's ballots - only the state can decide who the voters can choose to lead the state. Totes not authoritarian.
Then you can have Biden's inaugaral address next January, flanked by the military to show where the strength he'll have to drone MAGA and white-supremecists comes from.
I take it the author has never bought a used car. You don't start off with exactly what you are willing to pay just like the seller won't start off at his lowest price.
Trump is negotiating. "I want total immunity!" While the democrats are saying "We want you dead." Somewhere between total immunity and dead is where they will wind up.
Yes we know. Trump gets the benefit of the doubt. Trump always gets the infinite benefit of the doubt. He is incapable of saying or doing anything that doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. He is like the Pope - infallible!
Since 2016, when has Trump ever gotten the benefit of the doubt that Obama and Biden have? Can we start with the documents found in several locations, including Biden's garage?
Around here, Trump always gets the benefit of the doubt. Always. He can do no wrong. And even when he is wrong, it's not his fault.
Oh yes, Trump always gets the benefit of the doubt even though many of us either never voted for the man, or only voted for him once as we didn't like Biden. Yes, so obviously since we are sick of the double standard shit we see day-in and day-out, and call it out, we must therefore be "Trump Cultists" since we're defending the man from this double standard shit.
Jeffy, pull the blinders off your own face, open your fucking ears, and start smelling the shit that's been shoveled for the past 7-1/2 years.
Are you willing to criticize Trump for anything that he has said or done? Not about his policies, but about him personally. Can you do that?
It is possible of course to condemn terrible things that Trump has done, and also condemn a double standard that you think is being applied to them. They are not inconsistent positions.
But what you and your team have ended up doing, is you claim you are just opposing the double standard, but you do that by defending Trump’s actions themselves. That tells me that you are NOT just opposing the double standard, but you are actually supporting Trump.
Unless you’d like to change that today. Can you criticize anything at all about Trump’s character? Anything about what he has said or done over the past decade? Anything at all?
If you want to demonstrate that you don't always and continually give Trump the benefit of the doubt, you can stop giving him the benefit of the doubt when he does something terrible, such as this defense of his, which is asserting TOTAL IMMUNITY which even you should insist is bullshit.
The funniest thing about you demanding this is I think nearly everyone here has negged on his character at some point over the last 8 years.
Oh, I have loads to criticize about the man's character. However, it's irrelevant when discussing the double standard shit being done to him.
No it's not irrelevant. It points to the sincerity of your argument.
If your genuine interest is the double standard itself, then you should have no problem condemning the action. But, as I suspect is the case, the "double standard" is really just a motte-and-bailey tactic. People like you complain about the "double standard" as the motte. But the bailey is that you actually support Trump's actions which is harder to defend.
You'll complain about the "double standard" when it comes to, say, the classified documents case. "Why wasn't Biden prosecuted? Huh??????" But it is much more difficult to defend the position that Trump was totally right in taking the documents and that he shouldn't be prosecuted AT ALL.
So there is quite a bit of a moral difference between these two positions:
"Trump was wrong to take the documents but Biden should have been prosecuted too"
and
"Trump was totally justified in taking the documents and he shouldn't be prosecuted at all"
Which one is your position? Or is it something else?
Trump took documents that he had a right to take when he was President and then got snooty when the Feds demanded them back. The Feds put on a big show of raiding his home. Obstructing justice or obstructing injustice?
Biden stole documents that he had no right to take off-site and kept them hidden for decades by which time they had lost any value since he is now too senile to write any memoirs, so he gave them back. Simple grand theft.
Trump took documents that he had a right to take when he was President
he did not have a right to take those documents. The president's records are labeled as either 'presidential' or 'personal'. The president is not allowed to take with him records that are labeled as 'presidential'. Period. Those are the property of the government. And he does NOT have the unilateral right to change the label of those documents. And this has NOTHING to do with whether the records are 'top secret' or 'classified' or not.
But because there are a metric shit-ton of records and documents that any presidential administration generates, typically, there is some grace bestowed after an administration to sort through all of the records and to return the ones that don't belong, as an innocent error. Trump not only did not recognize that it was an error, he directly spat on them and told them all to go to hell. The result was predictable. He wanted to do things the hard way. Well, this is the hard way.
THAT is why he wasn't treated the same as Biden or Obama or Bush or Pence or anyone else who accidentally kept records that didn't belong to them. All the rest acknowledged their error and returned the documents. But no, not Trump.
You lying piece of shit. Biden took documents from a senate SCIF. This is a crime. Trump, as president. Committed no crime. This was previously decided by the Supreme Court regarding Clinton.
But of course, your Marxist hatred for Trump ensures you will always lie.
I was really ashamed of Trump when I heard he had said:
"You can grab 'em by the pussy. And they let you."
Embarrassing.
It should have been:
"You can grab 'em by the vagina. And they let you."
He should use the anatomically correct term like an adult!
we are sick of the double standard shit we see day-in and day-out, and call it out
Where's the line between calling out the double-standard (and yes I agree that it exists) and using it as an excuse for criminal acts?
Which criminal acts, Sarc? Cite them. Damn near every case he's involved in a civil due to the fact that they can't do anything in a criminal court to the man.
As far as the comments go, anyone who gives Biden or Obama the benefit of the doubt is attacked, and anyone critical of Trump in any way is attacked.
Keep playing the "boaf sydez" game there Sarc.
Oh no there's definitely only one side in the comments.
Bullshit, and you damn well know it.
Lol. You claim to recognize the double standard, but hate anyone who points it out... call trump Hitler, call him authoritarian while saying Biden recognizes the constitution, excuse BLM while mocking peaceful J6 protestors...
Do you think you have a fucking leg to stand on? You even defended him for saying Biden would use F15s so gun ownership doesn't matter. Lol.
You and Jeff do nothing but project.
Nope. And when those things happen it’s justified by facts and context. You’re just an angry, stupid, drunken pussy who incessantly hates Trump. You and your fat faggot child mutilating/grooming fellow traveler can fuck off.
FFS, just commit suicide already.
Oh no. Ds don't want Trump dead at all. Trump needs to be healthy for at least another 5 years. If anything were to happen to him all the MAGAs will create assassination conspiracies.
Your kind have certainly spent plenty of time open,y fantasizing about murdering him. And why wouldn’t you? You Marxists certain,y have no problem mass murdering babies in the womb, or advocating for another Jewish Holocaust.
You are the same guy who is constantly calling for all Democrats and Marxists to be eliminated, aren't you?
Just checking.
If Biden said he wanted absolute immunity for official acts, all you Trumpsuckers would be screaming.
I don't want absolute immunity for any president, whether it's Biden, or Trump or whomever.
Biden doesn’t have to say it. It’s quite clear he already has absolute immunity. While Trump obviously has nothing of the sort.
If Biden had absolute immunity, Comer et al wouldn't be playing impeachment games.
And do you really think that a 2nd Trump admin would somehow be prevented from investigating Biden on grounds of absolute immunity?
GMAFB
Impeachment is the action used to go after the president you fucking idiot. Not a local DA through criminal law.
How dumb are you shrike?
Still not shrike, you lying POS.
I was clearly arguing against the genuinely idiotic post of Beezard.
Impeachment is not currently required for going after a president after his term has ended, you Korpulent Konfederate Klown. It’s a process for removing an officer currently serving. And – to show how stupid your comment is – I talked about going after Biden in a Trump second term, which even you are just about smart enough to realise means that Biden would not then be president,
Quel qracquer
Are you sure you’re not Shreek? You appear to be very confused about all of this.
Nah, he's Diet Shrike, a different commenter.
Doesn’t he also claim to be British?
Difficulty... soros worshipper who has the exact same talking points as shrike. Shrike is known to sock.
Obnoxiously arrogant asshole ought to be pleased to be mistaken for turd; it's a compliment.
Impeachment means nothing. We saw that with the Trump impeachments and the Clinton one before it.
They're 'playing impeachment games' because that's all impeachment is - a game.
So if impeachment is nothing more than 'a game', it shouldn't simultaneously also be treated equivalent to a criminal indictment in holding the president accountable.
The impechments against Trump resulted in failures to convict. They can be treated as any other failed indictments, largely irrelevant.
Right. But if the impeachment process is merely just a 'game' then it shouldn't be used as a substitute for a serious assessment of whether a president has committed a crime.
In other words, if your position is that impeachment is the ONLY remedy for a president who breaks the law, and if the impeachment process itself is just a 'game', then the net result is that the president is above the law as long as he can play 'the game' correctly. Is that your position?
I'm trying to remember the last time the opposing party didn't start drafting impeachment papers the moment they lost the election. Bush the first maybe?
Which ones drafted criminal charges dumdum?
He has to be the thinking of the democrats. They were floating impeachment before he ever secured the nomination in 2015. Everything is about their authoritarian control over American’s lives.
Get rid of the democrats.
If each honest citizen disappeared one Donkey we would have a great country.
Oh great, now we have another Nardz. So how many Democrats have you murdered today?
Obviously not enough. You’re still gasping and wheezing.
Biden had absolute immunity before he was even president. That was what caused the first Trump impeachment, remember?
That does explain why Trump never indicted him in four years...
....are you retarded? When Trump asked Ukraine about the Bidens he was fucking impeached! They called it election interference!
What about qualified immunity?
Biden already has absolute immunity for official an unofficial acts - you're giving it to him. You *say* you don't want it - but you're giving it to him.
"If Biden said he wanted absolute immunity for official acts, all you Trumpsuckers would be screaming."
So long as you have a face, drooling Joe has a place to crap, right, shit-pile?
Sullum, it would be useful if you momentarily engaged in a critical thinking exercise of considering that there is validity to the belief that the 2020 election results were impacted to the point of changing the outcome by numerous improper manipulations. We already saw you beat this drum after 2016, so it is clearly something you're capable of when it aligns with your political bias. If you drop the TDS then Trump's words and actions are mostly justified. I'll grant that he's eccentric and exaggerates, but that aside I'd say he was more right than wrong.
This magazine is called Reason. It would be nice to see that principle applied
There is no validity to the belief that the 2020 election results were impacted to the point of changing the outcome by numerous improper manipulations. MAGAs say that, but the 2020 election has been audited by very partisan people and they got noting of significance.
But there is validity to the belief that the 2000 and 2016 elections were stolen?
The 2020 election was never audited. In fact, in Arizona, our most populated country - that holds like 80% of the population - refused to allow the election to be audited.
umm.... that is a bold faced lie...... they did multiple audits..... one by the most insanely partisan group you could imagine.
https://apnews.com/article/arizona-senate-election-audit-lawsuit-american-oversight-4d48dc9032547e5bf90433152b0375e0
We can go back even further. Does Diebold ring a bell? 2004?
There absolutely is validity. You’re just too much of a partisan shill to acknowledge that.
I’m just trying to imagine what sentence follows THE SERMON ON THE ORANGE
Maybe – And the people were amazed at his teaching. Pie Iesu domine dona eis requiem. Thwack…
Or – And the Lord did grin and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals and fruit bats and large…
If the ex-President's lawyers make it plain that whatever policy applies to ex-Preidents will also apply to ex-Judges, the matter would be dismissed. Retired Judges would spend the rest of their lives fighting cases brought by determined defendants, pissed off plaintiffs and different party DAs.
As for Biden, precedent already supports impeachment after their term. If / when the right parties hold Congress, they may impeach him for his failures to uphold his oath, or sniffing little girls. Whatever "high crime" they think fits. Then he may be prosecuted.
Fuck Donald Trump.
try as you might, you'll never make that 'a thing'.
There is only one Brandon\Biden.
Im not copying the new trend, just a continuation of my own. I started young, when Chelsea Clinton and her secret service detail stood in my view at the 2131 game. Told them to fuck off (well the equivalent of for a Christian middle schooler) and been telling presidents (and their families) that ever since.
Sidwell kids are all brats.
Ew...
If the Trump cultists around here seriously want us to believe that impeachment is the ONLY remedy for illegal acts taken by the president, then this effectively means that matters of law and justice are turned into nakedly political questions, as far as the president goes. The president will effectively be able to break the law without consequence as long as he can convince his party in the House & Senate that it's not a big enough deal. It is completely antithetical to the entire concept of 'rule of law', which is supposed to deliver impartial justice. It is, instead, the 'rule of power': whether or not a crime was committed depends not on evidence, but on how much power the president's party has in Congress.
It is literally the strongman theory of governance. That is what Trump is advocating for. And the Trump cultists are unsurprisingly going right along with it.
I don't actually believe that impeachment is the only remedy when a President breaks the law. In fact, I've previously stated that the founders, when they wanted to hand out immunity, were quite explicit in doing it, and there wasn't the least sign in the Constitution that they intended Presidents to have any form of legal immunity at all.
And, in any event, Trump isn't President right now.
That doesn't mean I don't think the lawfare that's been conducted against Trump for the last 7 years or so isn't total bullshit. Even the charges that have some sign of being legit are ones that wouldn't have been brought if they hadn't already been out to get him.
I think you'd be able to take down almost anybody if you devoted this much resources to finding something on them. It really is a case of "Show me the man, and I'll show you the crime."
Even if Trump sometimes, infuriatingly, made it easier than it had to be.
But you can't have it both ways. You can't simultaneously argue that the President may in fact be prosecuted in court for official acts even when not impeached, and then undermine every attempt to hold the president accountable as a form of "bullshit lawfare".
What is the alternative? If the president breaks the law as an official act, and Congress refuses to act, then according to you (and me), he may justly be prosecuted in court. But just as there are no angels as president, there are no angels as prosecutors either. No matter who is chosen to prosecute the president, that prosecutor is going to be dragged through the mud and accused of being a partisan engaged in lawfare.
What is an example, hypothetical if need be, of a situation where the president is prosecuted and it's NOT considered 'lawfare'?
Pedo Jeffy, this is far too complex for you to discuss. So just go back to your industrial sized tub of Ben & Jerry’s and let the adults talk.
Not sure how someone can argue prosecutorial immunity like Jack Smith has for prosecutorial abuse is well founded but not presidential immunity for official acts.
Immunity exists except for the most egregious of violations and has been held to that standard.
Petitioning courts, free speech, is not the egregious act.
Executive Branch has been involved in federal elections and investigations for decades.
I think it’s a reasonable position that Congress should make the distinction between “illegal” and “official” acts. Otherwise you’re just opening the door for every DA and State AG to prosecute out of partisan bullshit (or naked political ambitions).
That’s not to say that the imperial presidency shouldn’t be reigned in btw.
Otherwise you’re just opening the door for every DA and State AG to prosecute out of partisan bullshit (or naked political ambitions)
This fear IMO is overblown. As stated above, DA's and AG's only have limited jurisdiction. No DA or state AG has jurisdiction over a president committing any act, illegal or otherwise, while in DC doing federal government business.
Fani Willis has jurisdiction over Trump's actions in Georgia because Trump called the Georgia SOS not on official government business, but relating to his own re-election campaign. In that case, Trump was NOT acting like a government official, but as a candidate. And any candidate breaking the law should be held accountable, even the incumbent, no? Since in this country elections are run by states, not the federal government, then by definition state-level authorities are going to have jurisdiction over these types of crimes. Argue if you want whether Trump really did break the law here, but this is not a case of some headline-grabbing DA going after Trump over *official federal government business* that she thinks is illegal.
It is the same with Letitia James and the 'hush money' case. This was about Trump's campaign, not about his official government duties.
When it comes to Trump and his official duties, it is federal-level prosecutors and courts that are overseeing the cases, which is how it should be.
Except it's literally happening right now!
That’s not to say that the imperial presidency shouldn’t be reigned in btw.
That absolutely needs to happen. If the imperial presidency gets reined in, then we don't have to deal with the idiotic discussions with hypocrites, shills, and fatfucks. More seriously, the presidency has gotten way too much power, due in no small part to SCOTUS decisions (Wickard, anyone?) and Congress abdicating its own lawmaking responsibility. A few things that would go a long way toward ending the imperial presidency:
1. Congress needs to reassert itself. They need to make it clear that they, and only they make law, and remind the executive branch why we call them the executive branch.
2. Overturn the Chevron and Wickard decisions. These have opened and widened the door for the imperial presidency and the regulatory state.
3. Abolish most alphabet soup federal agencies and remove their regulation-making powers. Any and all regulation should be done by Congress, and Congress alone.
I originally had a longer post that alluded to two of those because they are also in the purview of Congress. Squirrels kept eating the damn thing, but yes, 100% agree.
Seriously, it doesn’t reflect an authoritarian impulse.
It just reflects the fact that he’s under such over the top legal attack, from so many directions at once, that he’s groping around for a comprehensive defense that will stop all of it.
Because stopping one line of attack or another really does you no good when you’re being spammed with endless, diverse legal attacks.
He's basically being subjected to the legal equivalent of a DOS attack by a bot net.
True dat!
Oh please. Stop indulging his victimhood narrative. No one is forcing him to adopt any sort of defense, comprehensive or otherwise, that asserts dictatorial levels of absolute power.
Oh please. Stop excusing illegal political prosecutions and deliberate lawfare. And don't pretend that this gives anyone "dictatorial levels of absolute power" when you know damn well this wouldn't hand him one iota more of presidential power or exempt him from impeachment.
You're a fascist and... wait for it... Nazi, Creamjeff.
Fatfuck is excruciating, isn’t he?
That's puting it mildly.
Even the cement floor thinks so.
Especially the cement floor. The steadily growing cracks in particular. And I’m sure his skeleton has been long suffering.
ML comes out in favor of the strongman theory of governance and then calls me the Nazi. LOL
Well, Jeffy, if the shit fits...
You just can't stop lying. It hands him no power whatsoever nor exempts him from impeachment, so how is that "strongman", fat fuck?
You know what is strongman Jeffy? Your political prosecutions.
Obese fucking Nazi.
man you really go all in with this gaslighting shit don't you
illegal political prosecutions
ANY prosecution of Trump is considered an "illegal political prosecution" by your tribe.
What have they charged Trump with doing that they've ever charged ANYONE with before?
Has any president ever before been charged for keeping his own presidential papers?
Has any businessman (or anyone) ever before been charged for telling the bank he thinks his property is worth a lot, and the bank appraises it and agrees and gives him a loan which he pays back in full and on time?
Has any presidential candidate ever before been charged for legally contesting election results in the courts using precedents established in the 1870s, 1960, and 2000?
No. You fascist fucks invented these charges just solely for him.
This is what you're shilling for and this is why you're a Nazi, you fat garbage human.
THIS is a Gish Gallop. You have packed so many falsehoods and deceptively misleading claims in this single comment it would take too much effort to unpack them all.
To claim that all Trump did was "keep his own presidential papers" is grossly misleading.
To claim that all Trump did was get loans from banks is grossly misleading.
To claim that all Trump did with regards to the 2020 election was no different than what other sore losers did in the past is grossly misleading.
ML knows all this but doesn't care because he is a shill for Team Trump. So he will spin every issue in Trump's favor whether it is accurate or not.
Jeffy, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.
Yep. And pity this writer didn’t mention- and condemn-the real “authoritarian impulse” : choosing to prosecute a president for acts committed while in office.
Way to go Garland, Smith, et al. Only a historical first, you fucking leftist hacks. And for what? You didn’t get to become a Supreme Court Justice? Your precious species of statism is going down?
I mean, we’ve only witnessed habeas suspended; Japanese-Americans interned; illegal spying and mass surveillance of domestic citizens; falsifying classified docs to prop a war; the weaponization of the intel state; and maybe throw in enhanced interrogation as torture if you like. Or drop a few bombs on US citizens. Wth.
Where were you clowns then? You didn’t even go after Lucifer himself, Richard Nixon. But, Trump. Omg. Now every two- bit prosecutor suddenly rushes to channel Javert chasing Jean Valjean.
Welcome to mass hysteria from the lunatic fringe.
That's right, it is "authoritarian" to hold the president accountable to the law.
The accountability of the president is and was done by congress, via oversight, or, in this instance, at the impeachment level. Twice.
And that’s been the @250 year-old historical blueprint of our checks and balances ( of executive accountability), with the courts taking part, appropriately.
The “authoritarian impulse” becomes clear and distinct when that blueprint is arbitrarily uprooted by political prosecutions.
I won’t bother detailing the depth of Jack Smith’s psychosis. Or that of the other hacks. But you can start with their selecting inapposite charges or with Smith trying to leapfrog the appellate process to hold Trump accountable.
Some twisted people you support.
It is just like the indictment of Rick Perry!
https://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?p=3857818#p3857818
That's right. For the president, it's a different set of rules. It's not 'rule of law', it's 'rule of power'. The president is allowed to do anything he wants as long as he and his party have the power to permit him to do whatever he wants, by inaction in Congress, or a phony-baloney vote to acquit. That is the standard that you are advocating.
And for the previous ~250 years, there was no effective difference between 'rule of law' and 'rule of power' because when it came down to judging the president in serious matters of misconduct, Congress for the most part acted responsibly. Congress made it clear they were not going to stand with Nixon when it was clear he broke the law, REGARDLESS of party. But Trump completely ruined this understanding. His gigantic ego, his demagogic grip on the party base, and his demands for unwavering loyalty made it very clear that if Republicans in Congress did not stand with him, they were going to lose their jobs - or worse. So Trump did whatever the fuck he wanted, up to and including breaking the law, and Congressional Republicans were put in the position of either endorsing his behavior or being out of power. And because most crave power over all else, they succumbed and let Trump do whatever he wanted.
Trump laid bare the constitutional provision of 'accountability' via impeachment is a joke and a sham. Congratulations!
So the only way now to hold him accountable is via the courts. Impeachment is a joke because Republicans will vote with him NO MATTER WHAT. I honestly think that even if Trump really did order the assassination of some prominent Democrat, even then most Republicans would stand with him and vote to acquit him. They would find a way to rationalize to themselves why it is okay "just this one time" to let him go. So thoroughly corrupted is the Republican Party nowadays.
I won’t bother detailing the depth of Jack Smith’s psychosis....
ANYONE who dared to attempt to hold Trump accountable would get the same treatment that you all give Jack Smith or the rest, no matter how angelic or saintly he/she was. Sure, some of them are hacks, sure they are flawed human beings, sure they are at least partly motivated by their own desire for power and fame. But it doesn't matter at this point. You would condemn Mother Theresa for trying to hold Trump accountable.
"ANYONE who dared to attempt to hold Trump accountable would get the same treatment that you all give Jack Smith or the rest, no matter how angelic or saintly he/she was. Sure, some of them are hacks, sure they are flawed human beings, sure they are at least partly motivated by their own desire for power and fame. But it doesn’t matter at this point. You would condemn Mother Theresa for trying to hold Trump accountable."
Hey sarcasmic! Sober up for a second and pay attention.
You see what Creamjeff is doing?
Making his argument by attacking Reshufflex's character instead of directly engaging with what he said?
THAT'S what actual ad hominem looks like.
“And because most crave power over all else, they succumbed and let Trump do whatever he wanted.
Trump laid bare the constitutional provision of ‘accountability’ via impeachment is a joke and a sham. “
It’s a bit late in the day to be crying about the impeachment process. Impeachment has always been grounded on party loyalty. It’s primarily a political instrument, not a legal device.
Where you been? Hence the “math” (2/3rds, etc.) and factionalism behind it and the inherent dynamics within the balance of power doctrine; in fact, therein is the basis of our internal governance, from co- equal branches to federalism to checks/balances, and, yep, to impeachment.
More to the point, your argument presupposes that the GOP ( senate, in particular) went docile for reasons other than the most salient one: that the GOP and MAGA crowd never saw the criminality from Trump as president that deludes you.
That you juxtapose the Nixon GOP with Trump’s GOP, and their respective impeachment conduct, is curious. What it illustrates is not what you say, but rather how actual criminality ( e.g., obstruction of Justice) is tethered to party loyalty vis-a- vis impeachment.
So, again, it’s not that Trump loyalists buried their heads in the sand; rather, they saw no crimes sufficient to warrant conviction, which was the putative case with Nixon, until he resigned.
Let’s make a deal: when Trump commits an actual crime as president, whether he has seal team six murder a political opponent (suddenly everyone’s favorite fantasy) or something more mundane like obstruction, I’ll promise to lead his impeachment.
In exchange, and until that happens, you’ll promise to quit pretending that party loyalty alone accounted for Trump “{laying} bare the constitutional provision of ‘accountability’ via impeachment…”
rather, they saw no crimes sufficient to warrant conviction,
Of course not. Because they weren't looking. THAT'S MY POINT.
Well it was worthy of impeachment to try and hold the Biden's accountable to the law. Also, I remember you screeching fascist when one mostly peaceful rioter was taken off the street. So much for accountability.
He didn't murder anyone and he didn't try to reverse a Joe Biden win. F'ers. Stop making-up sh*t constantly.
He questioned the elections integrity and rightfully so by any reasonable person.
The 2020 election fraud was heavily telegraphed, it was obvious that the democrats were going to do this even months before the election.
And they hid the evidence so well, your lot have never managed to get even a single court of law to rule in Trump's favor (regarding the claimed "reversal" of the election results).
Not bad for a senile old skull sniffer!
... single court of law to rule PERIOD.
Unlike say how Hillary got years and years of investigation.
According to TJJ2000, Trump merely questioned the election's integrity, so obviously there was no fraud. TJJ2000 says you should stop making up sh*t constantly.
How does questioning an election = obviously no fraud?
Are you making stuff up right now or what?
His Authoritarian Impulses? Maybe. His Criminal Tendencies? Absolutely.
If as Trump avers, he was reelected in 2020, then he's hit the two term limit and can't run again until he's older than Biden.
Jeb OTOH is barely 70.
I've seen quite a few leftist retards make this retarded assertion. Now we have another.
Yes, that was a questionable assertion. Instead, President Biden under color of his total presidential immunity, should order Seal Team 6 to take out former president Trump.
Who did the electoral college select?
Your 'gotcha' has been judged, and found lacking.
Retarded, Marxist, and deviant is no way to go through life.
So kill yourself.
Trump claims that he was "re-elected", but not that he is currently President.
Not that the Constitution would be considered a barrier to his 2028 ambitions, should he be re-elected in 2024, of course.
This "opinion" is biased because immunity is a protection created by courts to protect themselves, then to protect the president and congress, and later to protect prosecutors. Trump didn't make this up, he's just regurgitating the despicable protections created by the US Supreme Court themselves and the states thereafter. But even if there was no immunity, I would have to question the separations of power - which the US Supreme Court has relied on since Marbury.
Where does this "judicial immunity" come from?
Google reliably reveals that Martin Thomas Manton, a former 2nd Circuit federal judge, was convicted of "conspiracy to obstruct justice" in 1939 and sent to federal prison. He was not impeached, but he had resigned before he was indicted.
Mr. Sullum seems to be baiting the readers with his ongoing editorials. I think it's more of a marketing effort than any real conviction
It definitely drives page views, that’s for sure.
It is a marketing ploy, but Sullum is a true believer, so he is KMW's perfect vessel to write the sh*t that riles up libertarians. KMW is all about the Benjamins.
Do they seriously pay you to write "I still hate Donald Trump" articles here, Jake? And if so, why? They're just the same crap over and over again.
Be fair, this one had a quote from Nikki Haley. Where she totally pwned Trump! Now Trump’s all like “arrrrghh!! You’ve exposed my authoritarian impulses!!!I’ll get you for this Haley!!”
If you listen between the lines, you can almost hear the walls closing in…
Amazing. Even when Trump says he is a authoritarian thug no-stop in clear language his supporters applaud him. They think that some cop will never slam *their* head into the pavement just because 'law and order' and you made the mistake of insufficient groveling.
Since President Biden also has total presidential immunity, he should order Seal Team 6 to take out former president Trump.
"Even when Trump says he is a authoritarian thug no-stop in clear language"
Making-up more BS non-stop.
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