DeSantis vs. Disney: Florida's Fight Over Private Governance
Gov. Ron DeSantis’ crusade to end America's greatest success in private governance.

On April 22, 2022, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signed a bill dissolving the Reedy Creek Improvement District, ending perhaps the most successful experiment in private governance in U.S. history. The bill ended an arrangement that turned a swamp on the edges of Orlando into the home of Walt Disney World, one of the busiest tourist destinations on Earth. The governor's victory is not yet final—while the district was formally dissolved earlier this year, Disney attorneys quickly outfoxed DeSantis, delegating many of the district's powers back to the company. The company is now suing to reverse the change altogether.
For all the media sound and fury over the duel between the would-be president and the Mouse, experts seem to agree that Disney will retain most of its longstanding autonomy when all the lawsuits are through.
Whatever your views of the "Don't Say Gay" law that kicked off the DeSantis-Disney feud, or of the increasingly regrettable quality of the live-action Disney feature film reboots of its animated classics, DeSantis' attempt to dissolve the district is a blatant effort to bully a private company because he disapproved of its constitutionally protected speech. At best, it reveals DeSantis as a culture warrior rather than a small-government conservative. At worst, it exposes DeSantis as a politician willing to toss out the rule of law and free markets to score cheap political points, in the lead-up to a Republican presidential primary in which he's struggling to meet expectations.
For the most frivolous reasons imaginable, the fate of "the happiest place on Earth" now hangs in the balance.
'A Showcase to the World of the American Free Enterprise System'
By any reasonable metric, Central Florida was an odd place to build a theme park. When Disney selected Orlando as the site of Walt Disney World in the early 1960s, the city was a sleepy backwater of fewer than 100,000 residents lacking a dedicated civilian airport. (Today, Orlando International Airport is the eighth-busiest airport in the nation.) The remote 25,000 acres now covered by Walt Disney World were barren swampland, carved up by streams blackened by decaying organic matter and covered with mosquito-infested subtropical forests.
Unlike Niagara Falls or St. Louis—other contenders for what was then conceived as an East Coast Disneyland—Orlando enjoyed that most coveted resource: sunshine. Uncomfortable though the region's hot, humid summers may be, a Florida park could operate year-round. The $5 million project of buying up thousands of acres of Florida land became known within Disney as "Project Winter."
Orlando also had roads. Just as Disneyland was placed next to the brand new Santa Ana Freeway in Anaheim, California, Walt Disney chose Orlando on the straightforward basis that "the freeway routes, they bisect there." By the 1960s, the city sat at the junction of Interstate 4 and Florida's Turnpike, providing easy access for vacationing families traveling from the Northeast and Midwest.
Compared to contemporary scrambles for corporate relocations—consider Amazon's crony competition to build its HQ2 in 2018—Disney's move to Florida seems positively laissez faire. As political scientist Richard E. Foglesong points out in his definitive study of Disney-Florida relations, Disney chose Florida, not the other way around. Disney took great pains to hide its search from the public, even hiring William "Wild Bill" Donovan, the "father of the CIA," to help the company discreetly acquire land. When their decision to move to Orlando was finally revealed, the ask for Florida lawmakers was simple: Keep building roads and leave us alone.
At the behest of Disney, Florida lawmakers established the Reedy Creek Improvement District, effectively designating the 39 square miles the company had purchased as its own county. Through a board of supervisors appointed by landowners, Disney could tax itself to finance needed infrastructure and public services, exempt from state building and zoning rules. With only a handful of genuine residents—employees in homes rented from the company, legally necessary to establish two paper towns—the district had no local politicians to interfere with Disney's prerogatives.
All Disney had to do in exchange was pay county and state taxes and undergo state elevator inspections (the Tower of Terror notwithstanding). Curiously, while Disney could not run an elevator free of state oversight, it could have, in theory, run its own nuclear power plant.
Disney didn't want these broad governing powers just to build another theme park. Walt intended to also build and manage a model city, which would pilot, develop, and export a new approach to urban management. Amid a decade of rapid suburbanization, worsening traffic congestion, and mounting urban unrest, Walt viewed solving "the urban problem" as his last great project. Fresh off the success of the 1964 New York World's Fair—where he worked closely with master builder Robert Moses—it was a natural next step.
Drawing liberally from a range of urban design traditions, Disney's unrealized vision was a far cry from the conspicuously conservative design of Main Street, U.S.A. In his final on-camera appearance, Walt described the Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow (EPCOT) as a carefully managed radial community of 20,000 residents, anchored by a central business district, divided into discrete use districts, connected by people movers, and ringed by a greenbelt.
If his design ideas now seem like cliché "city of tomorrow" fare, Walt's thoughts on governance remain provocative. The challenge of urban management, as Disney staff put it in a proposal prepared for the federal Department of Housing and Urban Development, involved keeping cities in a permanent "state of becoming." Walt sought a way out of the stagnation and decline that had come to characterize—and in many respects, still characterizes—U.S. cities.
The solution: centralized land ownership and private government. Reflecting the high modernist ideals of the time, Walt and company sought to replace fragmented property rights and democracy with islands of centralized administration, overseen by experts acting in compliance with a broader plan. Against the legal backdrop of the Reedy Creek Improvement District, EPCOT was to be a model of private city development, a "showplace to the world of the American free enterprise system," as Walt put it, profiting its owners and inspiring copycats. Free of ornery holdouts and meddling politicians, the thinking went, the city would be free to reach its fullest potential.
Of course, EPCOT as we know it today falls far short of this vision. (The park is now stylized as "Epcot," a subtle attempt to distance the park from its utopian origins.) Nearly as soon as Walt passed away in 1966, his brother Roy—always the practical one in the partnership—quietly scuttled the model city idea. But the expansive governing powers Walt secured for the district remained.
America's Greatest Success in Private Governance
Looking back over the past half-century, it's safe to say that the Reedy Creek Improvement District has been a remarkably successful experiment in private governance. If Disney World isn't technically a city, it may as well be. On a typical day, the district hosts 160,000 visitors and 77,000 employees, which would put it among the top 100 U.S. cities, well above Walt's vision of 20,000 EPCOT residents. Approximately 32,000 hotel rooms house tens of thousands of temporary—and nonvoting—residents each night.
The district had been a laboratory for public services, running instructive experiments in everything from mosquito abatement to green energy—though it never built that nuclear power plant. The district's boutique EPCOT Building Code, a nod to Walt's original ambitions for the project, optimizes safety and innovation better than the typical U.S. building code does. The district is still, for the most part, ringed by a carefully managed greenbelt, and the Disney World monorail is the ninth-busiest rapid transit system in the country.
Disney did eventually build a functioning model community. Developed in the 1990s and carved away from the Reedy Creek Improvement District—there couldn't be too many voting residents, after all—the community of Celebration, Florida, couldn't bear less resemblance to EPCOT. With a design sensibility that has more in common with Main Street, U.S.A., than The Jetsons, it's no one's idea of the city of tomorrow. Yet the company explicitly framed Celebration as a chance to fulfill Walt's vision of a model community—and implicitly, to turn fallow swampland into more easy money.
Designed according to then-pioneering "new urbanist" principles, the town swapped out cul-de-sacs and use segregation for a street grid extending outward from a commercial town center, with a range of housing typologies mingled together. As documented in Celebration U.S.A., an early history of the town authored by Douglas Frantz and Catherine Collins, Celebration was an attempt to rebuild community right as Americans were first starting to fret over "bowling alone." Thanks in no small part to the runaway success of Celebration, new urbanist towns can now be found across the country.
Even well beyond its official boundaries, it's nearly impossible to ignore the transformative impact of the Reedy Creek Improvement District. Orlando has been among the fastest-growing cities in the U.S. every decade since 1970, and its metropolitan population has quadrupled from approximately 344,000 to 1.5 million residents. Today, Orlando—and Florida as a whole—is synonymous with tourism, an economic powerhouse that holds the undisputed title of "theme park capital of the world."
Disney has occasionally been a difficult neighbor. The company could doubtless do more to fund off-site services and infrastructure. Disney opposition has hobbled attempts at regional transit, including a plan to stitch together Florida with private high-speed rail. With the highest-paying Disney jobs remaining in Southern California, the dynamic in Orlando can feel extractive. The city's dependence on low-paying tourism jobs has fed into recurring housing affordability issues, as captured in the 2017 film The Florida Project.
Yet these are problems of prosperity. If Disney weren't present, there wouldn't be any growth to put pressure on services or roads in the first place. By one estimate, Disney alone accounts for 2.5 percent of the Florida economy and one in 50 employees in the state. The company pours over a billion dollars each year into state and local coffers and hundreds of millions of dollars into local charities. It's hard to take Disney seriously as the primary culprit for housing unaffordability when every city in the region makes it illegal to build apartments in the typical neighborhood.
Walt Disney's grand experiment in private governance made Orlando into the tourism juggernaut it is today. While it didn't get Florida a model city, it did establish a framework whereby Disney took on nearly all of its own infrastructure and public service costs, footing the bill and sparing neighboring cities and counties from constantly having to be at the beck and call of the company. All it took was a degree of private government that's only different from the typical suburban mall—with its list of rules and its private promenades—in scale, if not form.
Far from being a failure, the Reedy Creek Improvement District has been a runaway economic development success, matched only by the free market economic zones that created Singapore and Hong Kong or turned China from a nation of peasant farmers into an industrialized nation in a single generation. The worst that can be said about it is that Florida didn't create even more such districts, offering a level playing field to competitors such as Universal Studios. With new cities and charter cities once again in vogue, we should be discussing the district as a model rather than pondering its apparent death.
So why did DeSantis decide to kill it?
Saying 'Gay' in the Happiest Place on Earth
On March 28, 2022, DeSantis signed the Florida Parental Rights in Education Act—or as it has come to be known by critics, the "Don't Say Gay" bill. The law restricted discussion of sexual orientation and gender identity in schools, required schools to disclose to parents any mental or physical health services received by students, and granted parents a private right of action to sue in cases of perceived violations.
For all DeSantis' complaints about "woke" corporate meddling, Disney initially did just about everything it could to avoid taking a stance on the bill. The company had actually been supporting state Sen. Dennis Baxley (R–Lady Lake), the bill's sponsor. Amid mounting pressure to take a stance in opposition to the bill, then-CEO Bob Chapek released a statement heavy on corporate fluff and light on firm positions.
It didn't help. The Human Rights Campaign announced it would be refusing future donations from Disney, and despite a more explicit statement against the bill from Disney later that week, employees at the company's Burbank headquarters staged a walkout later that month. Chastened, Disney released yet another statement the day the bill was signed into law, declaring that it "should never have been signed" and establishing the company's intent to have the legislation "repealed by the legislature or struck down in the courts."
In retrospect, Disney was probably just trying to avoid bad press. The company's tone-deaf "thoughts and prayers" approach garnered little more than eye-rolling from LGBT activists on the left. But its last-minute opposition would evoke righteous rage from culture warriors on the right. DeSantis promptly declared war on Disney. A bill dissolving the Reedy Creek Improvement District was introduced and swiftly moved through the Florida Senate. Days later, it was on the governor's desk and signed into law.
Senate Bill 4-C was supposed to be the end of Florida's grand experiment in private governance. The brisk two-page legislation called for the Reedy Creek Improvement District to be disbanded on June 1, 2023, without ever mentioning "Disney" or "Reedy Creek"—and affecting only five other special districts. The attempt to abolish the district quickly proved to be a comedy of errors, even by the low standards of contemporary policy making.
For starters, the hastily assembled bill didn't have any plan for the district's billion-dollar bond debt. As revealed by Florida attorney Jacob Schumer, the DeSantis proposal almost certainly violated provisions of the 1967 bill creating the district, which forbade its dissolution while debt is outstanding—debt the district had accrued building all of Disney World's infrastructure. The earliest the state can legally pay down this debt, and thus dissolve the district, is 2029—that is, assuming the state has $1 billion lying around.
Even if DeSantis could dissolve the Reedy Creek Improvement District, the cost of keeping it operating would simply fall onto neighboring counties: Orange and Osceola. According to Orange County Tax Collector Scott Randolph, the county would need to raise property taxes by 15 percent to 20 percent to cover $163 million in services and debt maintenance. A group of residents sued to block the law, alleging that dissolving the district would cause "significant injury to taxpayers." A federal court promptly threw out the lawsuit, but by then a storm was brewing.
In a scramble to correct these issues before the district's dissolution in June 2023, DeSantis signed House Bill 9-B, a 191-page bill establishing a successor to Reedy Creek: the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District. It was meant to be a near–carbon copy of the district, assuming its debt and most of its powers (with the notable exception of a right to build a nuclear power plant). The key difference was that the Central Florida tourism board would now be appointed by DeSantis, rather than indirectly elected by Disney.
As Schumer put it, Disney World was supposed to "go from being uniquely independent to uniquely under political control," forever at risk of having its taxes raised or permits stalled arbitrarily by a board of political appointees.
The Empire Strikes Back
That is, if that board had any real power. When the Central Florida Tourism Board took over in March, it soon realized the outgoing Disney-appointed Reedy Creek Improvement District board had transferred nearly all its powers over to Disney. Since a delegation of power can't run in perpetuity, it lasts "until twenty-one (21) years after the death of the last [living] survivor of the descendants of King Charles III," or 2-year-old Princess Lilibet. For obscure legal reasons, Disney—a company synonymous with princesses—has literally bet its future on a young princess.
At taxpayers' expense, DeSantis attorneys are still busy trying to poke holes in the delegation of power—a futile effort, given Disney and the district's adherence to procedural requirements. The meeting was even noticed in the Orlando Sentinel.
In the meantime, Disney isn't waiting around. In September, the company refocused its lawsuit against the district's dissolution on the rather obvious First Amendment issues raised by DeSantis' botched coup. According to company attorneys, the laws dissolving and replacing the Reedy Creek Improvement District were passed without any rational basis, except as retaliation for constitutionally protected political speech—and to silence future speech.
It will be hard for DeSantis attorneys to argue otherwise: In what little debate happened on the original bill, state Sen. Doug Broxson (R–Pensacola) chastised Disney for failing to remain "apolitical." DeSantis, for his part, has never bothered to hide the political nature of the fight, dedicating a whole chapter of his recent book to the feud—unimaginatively titled "The Magic Kingdom of Woke Corporatism." The fact that policy makers recently created a special district for apolitical competitor Universal Studios isn't helping the state's case.
To what end? Until recently, DeSantis had made his constitutionally dubious feud with Disney a mainstay of his flagging presidential campaign. But polling suggests that most Americans don't care either way, and those who do care are evenly divided. Disney retains net favorability—something that can't be said of DeSantis. Having milked the incident for what little it was worth, DeSantis now seems keen to forget about it, recently pleading for Disney to move on. Perhaps picking a fight with Mickey Mouse is a poor way to start a campaign. (It certainly isn't winning over my niece and nephew.)
Even former President Donald Trump, no stranger to bullying corporations, mocked the wisdom of the spat on the social media site Truth Social: "This is all so unnecessary, a political STUNT!"
DeSantis' war with Disney has only hurt Florida. In May, Disney announced it would be scrapping a long-anticipated plan to relocate the company's legendary Imagineering department to Orlando, which would have brought 2,000 high-paying jobs to the state. In August, the new DeSantis-appointed board stripped district employees of perks such as free season passes to the parks, sparking a backlash among district firefighters—the same firefighters who backed DeSantis' failing bid to dissolve their employer. Real life may not always be a Disney morality play, but it does occasionally have a sense of justice.
When Walt Disney set out to build his kingdom in Florida, his first priority was to insulate it from politics. As Disney staff sketched out the political philosophy of the Reedy Creek Improvement District in 1966, they dreamed of a community "freed from the impediments to change, such as…elected political officials." Walt's uniquely apolitical vision of private governance has received no shortage of criticism over the past half-century, especially from the left. But as politics infects every aspect of society, his concerns increasingly seem prophetic.
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Nothing about the massive corruption that Disney's control of Reedy Creek had enabled, like charging the state for the bribes to its own officials? Selling park infrastructure to the district at inflated rate for equipment that was nonfunctional, and denying representatives of the new "owners" access to their property? Never living up to the promises made that the district was created for because Disney would be unable to control the voting behavior of 20,000 permanent residents, rather than tourists.
This is ignoring the elephant in the room.
"The Human Rights Campaign announced it would be refusing future donations from Disney, and despite a more explicit statement against the bill from Disney later that week, employees at the company's Burbank headquarters staged a walkout later that month."
So Disney changed its apolitical stance under pressure from activist groups and employees who lived in California. Why was it important to appease them?
"In May, Disney announced it would be scrapping a long-anticipated plan to relocate the company's legendary Imagineering department to Orlando..."
Opposing that move others like it may have been the actual motivation for the Burbank employees walking out rather than a principled stand supporting the grooming, er, instruction of Florida's children on LGBT+ lifestyles.
This is a dishonest, propaganda piece of an article, and should be embarrassing to Reason in light of the recent revelations about what was really going on at Reedy Creek.
"The board now overseeing the development district that contains Disney World voted unanimously to approve a report that is highly critical of the now-defunct Reedy Creek District.
"Disney pulled a bait and switch at the very outset," said chair Martin Garcia."
https://www.fox13news.com/news/defunct-reedy-creek-district-gets-scathing-review
Yes yes, we should believe at face value the report written by the DeSantis appointees that is critical of Disney. They don't possibly have any political motivations whatsoever.
The ad hominem, of course, is such a convincing logical argument.
On the contrary, it is your presentation of a mere summary of this report (not the report itself) without the underlying context, such as its commission at the behest of DeSantis and the Legislature, which is dishonest by its omission.
IF you read the actual introduction to the report, it reads like a DeSantis campaign ad.
Looks like were in for some of Jeff's specialty, pettifogging over externalities and making inferences.
The UN writes a report supporting the need for world socialism to fight climate change and you doubt it's honesty yet when a politician seeking higher office has a report written and released you accept it at face value and assume it to be absolute truth.
Seems your skepticism is rather one sided.
They did promise to provide housing for over 20,000 people when given the district.
I am unaware of them actually living up to this.
Why should I believe Disney?
I'm not asking you to take Disney's word at face value either. I'm asking you to be a critical thinker and discover the truth for yourself, independent of tribal or partisan affiliation.
Can you do that?
Jeffy, Disney never lived up to their end of the bargain. Reedy Creek should've been terminated decades ago when Disney failed on their end of the bargain. Why it was left to go so long is absurd.
The timing wasn't at all political with DeSantis waving his anti-woke dick around to kick off his presidential campaign. No, it was a long time coming and totally based upon principle. Suuuuure.
It was Disney weighing in on something which was not their corporate business at the behest of progressive radicals and California employees.
Glad Republicans are above using government force to punish companies for their political views. You expect that from Democrats.
It's not "punishment" when you have to go be like everyone else without special government favors.
The one true libertarian should know this.
It's punishment when the rules aren't applied evenly, which is the point of this article.
Before you say it, is does that mean Trump is being punished? Yes. Does it make him, or Disney, not guilty? No.
"It’s punishment when the rules aren’t applied evenly, which is the point of this article."
That would be true if any other business had received the same deal Disney had, but none did. Yes, there are other improvement districts but none were a private company running its own local government like Disney.
Reedy Creek was exceptional and had no equal. When Disney lost its special status only then were the rules actually applied evenly.
There's a good bit of deliberate deception in the above article that teeters on the edge of outright lying.
Who cares about the timing? Disney was stealing a sleeping bear's honey and then decided to go and kick the bear. They called attention to the issue inadvertently and gave Florida a reason to do what it did.
Get real. Timing is everything in politics.
Results are everything.
Well, that doesn't sound authoritarian at all.
How are results "authoritarian". You seriously say the dumbest shit.
Principles don't matter. The law doesn't matter. Liberty doesn't matter.
Results are all that matters. If the first three are sacrificed to get the last, cultural conservatives are perfectly fine with it. That's authoritarianism.
Principles are the medium, the law is the application, and Liberty IS the result, you mendacious piece of shit.
Again, you say the stupidest shit.
And cultural conservatives have neither principles, nor the law, nor any respect for liberty.
As long as you can force everyone to follow your preferred cultural outcomes, you don't care.
You mendacious piece of shit.
What do you think are the core principles of woke? And how do they reconcile with libertarian values?
Finally, if anything from the woke crowd defies libertarian life, then what is wrong with anti-woke action?
... what is wrong with anti-woke action?
The selective enforcement of laws against unpopular ideology is antithetical to every principle this country was founded upon.
Doesn't matter who does it, or who it is done against.
Finally, if anything from the woke crowd defies libertarian life, then what is wrong with anti-woke action?
You all love this binary black/white thinking, don't you?
What about social conservatism? What about neoconservatism? What about social liberalism (aka 'libertinism')? Would it be appropriate if anything from the "social conservative"/"neoconservative"/"social liberal" crowd defies libertarian life, then a governor executing actions opposed to those ideologies are to be supported?
So I reject this idea that if there is *one* thing in the ideology that is problematic, that we have some duty to reject the entire thing. That is idiotic all-or-nothing thinking.
Besides, I don't hear anyone here applying this same standard to any of these other subgroups.
For example, I don't like the Bible thumping and the preachy moral crusades of the social conservatives. But I do like that they tend to emphasize personal responsibility. So while I don't think libertarianism should be synonymous with social conservatism, I do think they have one or two good ideas to offer.
For example, I don't like the warmongering of the neoconservatives, but I do like that they tend to be strong supporters of international free trade. So while I don't think libertarianism should be synonymous with neoconservatism, I Do think they have one or two good ideas to offer.
For example, I don't like the lack of personal responsibility from the social liberals/libertines. But they do tend to be strong supporters of legalizing 'vices' such as drugs and prostitution. So while I don't think libertarianism should be synonymous with social liberalism, I do think they have one or two good ideas to offer.
SIMILARLY, I don't like the overemphasis on race and identity and intersectionality that the 'wokists' insist upon. But I do like the fact that they are even talking about it, and willing to deal with these issues that others will tend to either ignore, deny or whitewash. So I don't think libertarianism should be considered "woke", I do think that we can learn from the "wokists" about being comfortable discussing issues of race and identity in the context of liberty.
Hope that answers your question.
Compartmentalized ideology leads to fragmented morality.
Disney was supposed to make Reedy Creek INDEPENDENT of them.
They failed to do that as well.
Again, why feel empathy for a multi-billion dollar global conglomerate that refuses to abide by its agreements?
"Disney was supposed to make Reedy Creek INDEPENDENT of them."
That wasn't part of the legislation at all. Just like the 20,000 residents wasn't a requirement. Those are just ways that cultural conservatives justify their authoritarian behavior to themselves and pretend that they are "pro-liberty". They aren't.
Technically no, except for the multiple laws passed since then and the over a BILLION DOLLARS in GOVERNMENT LOAN APPLICATIONS where RCID swore on their mother's grave that they were a separate entity from Disney. Oh, and let's not forget the millions of dollars in perks Disney gave to the RCID board members. Ostensibly Florida government employees which makes all that criminal bribery.
"where RCID swore on their mother’s grave that they were a separate entity from Disney"
Oh, well if there are documents that's different. Where can I find these documents that say Disney promised all these things? Or maybe the laws that changed the law that set up Reedy Creek?
"Oh, and let’s not forget the millions of dollars in perks Disney gave to the RCID board members."
Hmm, I'm also unfamiliar with any law preventing that. Which laws are those? Because it is definitely something that was allowed by the original law creating Reedy Creek.
"Ostensibly Florida government employees which makes all that criminal bribery."
Reedy Creek board members were government employees? That would come as a shock to everyone involved. If I were them, I would put in for my government pension ASAP!
Yes you DUMB FUCKING RETARD. Florida special district employees are STILL GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES. They are not however employees of the county/city the special district is located in because those districts are recognized by the state of Florida as having individualized needs better serviced by a localized nexus of government. THAT IS THE ENTIRE FUCKING POINT OF SPECIAL DISTRICTS.
As for the loans, more specifically municipal bonds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrIxQ-eQzO0
"Yes you DUMB FUCKING RETARD."
Interesting. I can't find anything that refers to them as anything other than employees of the RCID. Which, by design, isn't a government organization. So I'm not sure how they suddenly have become government employees.
As far as I can tell, even the new sycophants aren't government employees, even though they are appointed by Ron DeSantis. If you have a link that shows that anyone from RCID or the new organization are employees of the Florida government, I'd appreciate it. But I have a sneaking suspicion that you are saying things that you want to believe or, perhaps, something that your news silo has presented to you.
Regarding the bonds, I'm not in the habit of clicking on random YouTube links from angry authoritarians. Do you have documentation or a link to a reputable site that doesn't have a better-than-even chance of being an angry rant from a different angry authoritarian than you?
Are any of the lawyers here able to confirm or dispute his claim that RCID employees were government employees?
"Regarding the bonds, I’m not in the habit of clicking on random YouTube links from angry authoritarians."
Pretty gutsy calling someone else an authoritarian, you goosestepping Nazi troll.
The real reason you won't click it is because you're a dishonest and cowardly shill who won't acknowledge something that disproves your narrative.
Not really. It's blindingly obvious to anyone with a brain and the slightest interest in honesty that DeSantis and his legislative cronies don't care about anything except for punishing people for speaking out against him. But that's on-brand for a guy who oversaw torture.
Oh look, the DUMB FUCKING RETARD is not only too stupid to look up what special districts are but is also too fucking retarded to understand that a municipal bond can ONLY BE ISSUED BY A GOVERNMENT.
"too stupid to look up what special districts are"
I'm.quite aware of what special districts are. At the time DeSantis retaliated against Disney for constitutionally protected speech, there were 1844 of them on Florida, created under a variety of different laws with a variety of different structures for a variety of different purposes. After the retaliation there were 1838. If you think they are all the same, I'm not the one who doesn't understand what special districts are.
"municipal bond can ONLY BE ISSUED BY A GOVERNMENT."
Let's see. On one side we have the fact that no employee of the RCID was ever listed as a government employee. On the other we have municipal bonds, the issuance of which can be delegated by the state to other entities including ... wait for it ... special districts. Yet you see the latter as irrefutable proof that RCID employees were government employees and the former as irrelevant? That's awfully counterintuitive. But if you need to tell yourself crazy things to maintain your beliefs, have at it. Just don't be surprised when the only people who agree with you live on the far right fringe of American politics.
Here you go you DUMB FUCKING RETARD. From the 2011 Florida Statues which I got to using the search query "are florida special districts government entities".
(a) There is a need for uniform, focused, and fair procedures in state law to provide a reasonable alternative for the establishment, powers, operation, and duration of independent special districts to manage and finance basic capital infrastructure, facilities, and services; and that, based upon a proper and fair determination of applicable facts, an independent special district can constitute a timely, efficient, effective, responsive, and economic way to deliver these basic services, thereby providing a means of solving the state’s planning, management, and financing needs for delivery of capital infrastructure, facilities, and services in order to provide for projected growth without overburdening other governments and their taxpayers.
(b) It is in the public interest that any independent special district created pursuant to state law not outlive its usefulness and that the operation of such a district and the exercise by the district of its powers be consistent with applicable due process, disclosure, accountability, ethics, and government-in-the-sunshine requirements which apply both to governmental entities and to their elected and appointed officials.
(c) It is in the public interest that long-range planning, management, and financing and long-term maintenance, upkeep, and operation of basic services by independent special districts be uniform.
...
(8) The Legislature finds and declares that:
(a) Growth and development issues transcend the boundaries and responsibilities of individual units of government, and often no single unit of government can plan or implement policies to deal with these issues without affecting other units of government.
(b) The provision of capital infrastructure, facilities, and services for the preservation and enhancement of the quality of life of the people of this state may require the creation of multicounty and multijurisdictional districts.
Now you blithering idiot, in Florida disclosure, accountability, ethics, and government-in-the-sunshine requirements are only applicable to government employees. They are applicable to special districts. Q.E.D. Special districts are government entities.
Right, much better to believe the statements of groomers. At least that tracks for your brand.
It’s just a coincidence Jeffy is taking the side if child groomers.
SMH "Groomers". And you folks can't understamd why you aren't taken seriously except as a threat to freedom.
Wanting to stop groomers is a threat to freedom? Do you really want to die on that hill?
Any hill is fine, as long as he dies.
Calling innocent people who have never been, and never will be, any kind of sexual predators, "groomers" is the sort of thing that delusional people do. It's what you do. It's why you're a threat to liberty and decency.
You aren't trying to stop anything, because the thing you claim to be "stopping" is a figment of your imagination. It isn't real. It isn't true. It isn't rational or reasonable or sane. It is vile, baseless slander against anyone who doesn't agree with you. Which is most people, given how far out on the fringe you clearly live.
Hey pixie-duster, you know that Disney lost $800 million year over year in net income in FY23, and made even less in that metric than they did in FY09?
Turns out alienating a large portion of your traditional audience has financial and political impacts. Who could have guessed that?
And that makes punishing constitutionally-protecred speech acceptable? You have really fucked-up beliefs.
Disney isn't going to fail over this any more than Bud Light failed over conservative rage over a tiny marketing effort.
I'm guessing that the fact that Disney can't make a good movie to save their life may have had an impact on their financials. But go ahead and live in your "righteous culture warrior" fantasy. It makes no difference in the long run.
And that makes punishing constitutionally-protecred speech acceptable? You have really fucked-up beliefs.
If Disney wants to act like a political entity, they can be treated like one.
Disney isn’t going to fail over this any more than Bud Light failed over conservative rage over a tiny marketing effort.
Disney being reduced to a shell of itself, during a time when its brand is absolute poison, is hardly a victory of any kind.
I’m guessing that the fact that Disney can’t make a good movie to save their life may have had an impact on their financials. But go ahead and live in your “righteous culture warrior” fantasy. It makes no difference in the long run.
Just because you're too stupid to see how these things are linked is hardly my fault. But I'll enjoy watching them, and you, suffer for it.
"If Disney wants to act like a political entity, they can be treated like one."
Except there is no barrier, legal or otherwise, to Disney exercising their rights. Are you under the mistaken belief that political speech isn't protected? How stupid.
There are, however, legal barriers to government retaliating against dissenting speech. Unless you think the First Amendment is a bad idea?
"Disney being reduced to a shell of itself, during a time when its brand is absolute poison, is hardly a victory of any kind."
Let's look at Disney's revenues and ask ourselves, "Would another company like to have that level of revenue?". If you think the answer is "No" you have no understanding of how business works. If you think that a temporary dip in profits horrifies a multinational company like Disney, you're proving you don't understand it.
Disney can ride this out. Their ability to raise capital far exceeds the staying power of a bunch of rage-filled partisans.
And if you think that Disney's brand is "poison" outside of your echo chamber, you should probably not venture out into the real world. It will only disappoint (or further enrage) you.
"Just because you’re too stupid to see how these things are linked is hardly my fault."
Yes, believing that people aren't going to bad movies because they are bad movies is such a radical belief. What's next, that companies who innovate prosper? Capitalism is such questionable proposition in your world? Weird.
"Except there is no barrier, legal or otherwise, to Disney exercising their rights. Are you under the mistaken belief that political speech isn’t protected? How stupid."
Huh, so a global media megacorps gets to tell a sovereign state what to do, using its economic and cultural clout as a form of political extortion, but doesn't have to suffer the consequences of acting like an unaccountable political entity in and of itself? How stupid.
"Yes, believing that people aren’t going to bad movies because they are bad movies is such a radical belief. What’s next, that companies who innovate prosper? Capitalism is such questionable proposition in your world? Weird."
Funny how you think brand rejection isn't part of how capitalism works--you know, like if you alienate your core audience, you end up losing $800 million on your shit content.
Maybe Disney needs to take some lessons on movie production from Toho, considering Godzilla Minus One was made for $10 million less than one shit episode of She-Hulk.
That's why I believe everything Disney attorneys' who *checks article* outfoxed DethSantis say.
Yes, we should be skeptical of headlines. However, there are numerous examples of actions that fairly clearly show bribery, indicate corruption, and "private governance" that completely eliminates the distinction between government and corporation that is more representative of Gilded Age company towns or Dystopian mega-corps than anything we want to occur.
What makes our system work has always been forces in opposition, and Reddy Creek clearly shows a unification of power under Disney's thumb.
You beat me to it.
https://thefederalist.com/2023/12/04/bombshell-audit-reveals-how-disney-bribed-and-scammed-its-way-into-an-unaccountable-florida-empire/
But anyway, the 'DeSantis is worse than Trump' bandwagon wanders on, bypassing truth, justice, and the American way.
Reedy creek should have been dissolved for all these reasons, but it wasn't. The state did it to silence speech. DeSantis has been honest and transparent about that. I'll give him credit for honesty at least. This is what makes it chilling to libertarians. This retconning doesn't make it OK to violate 1A.
Maybe. It iscalso a political consideration. Disney took for granted GOP support of their sweetheart deal when they had been politically neutral, the they decided to take a partisan stand at the behest of people outside of Florida.
Disney shat where it ate, and consequently got sick.
Exactly, when you need to think about what you're saying so those in power don't come down on you, something is wrong.
When you backstab political allies over something that is not of pragmatic value to your business operations, then you do not have much to complain about.
I get what you're saying, but I'm a 1A stickler, I guess.
But if you sign an agreement and do not abide by its terms, should the agreement not be nullified?
Yes, it should be nullified. What agreement did they break?
Oh, I realize now you are probably referring to what was in Mickey's original post, which I addressed aboveReedy creek should have been dissolved for all these reasons, but it wasn’t. The state did it to silence speech...
"Disney shat where it ate, and consequently got sick."
It eats in California. Florida is just a revenue source. But don't worry, the 2000 jobs that DeSantis prevented from coming to Florida won't impact him, since the golden rule of politics is that things that didn't happen never make a difference to voters.
You mean the 2000 jobs that were never coming because the Imagineers didn't want to move and Iger utterly despised the idea? Those jobs?
If that makes you feel better, sure. You definitely have a vision of the world that doesn't require the actual facts to support it, so why stop now?
Look who doesn't know what time it is.
Not gonna make it
**shaking**
Yet still managing to clutch your pearls
I'm here trying to logically parse libertarian political ideals; you're telling me I'm about to die and I'M the one pearl clutching? Lololol.
BTW. I just looked out my window. Still no drag queen army, right wing militias or fighting of any kind out there. When does this thing kick off?
Faggot boomer faith in the system.
You're a fucking timor.
Silence speech?
Your citation must have dropped off the post.
The parental rights bill was about state speech, not 1A kinds of speech.
The bill to dissolve special districts not in compliance with current sate law was not specific to Disney, and had nothing to do with any kind of speech. There were other districts affected.
Look up the laws, Florida is very open to searches.
My reference to speech is in reference to Disney's opposition to the don't say gay bill.
compliance with current sate law was not specific to Disney
It was openly and transparently targeted at Disney. You don't have to take my word for it, Meatball Ron says so himself.
As far as the bill itself: There should no state schools, but as long as there are, they have every right to control the curriculum and what's in the library IMHO. Beyond that, it's what I'd like for my kids' schools.
"My reference to speech is in reference to Disney’s opposition to the don’t say gay bill."
But there is no such bill. There is dishonest language demonizing a bill protecting parental rights with regards to public schools, but why would Disney put itself in opposition to that?
Perhaps this is why :
"When Walt Disney set out to build his kingdom in Florida, his first priority was to insulate it from politics. As Disney staff sketched out the political philosophy of the Reedy Creek Improvement District in 1966, they dreamed of a community "freed from the impediments to change, such as…elected political officials."
The modern Disney management exposed itself to politics.
But there is no such bill. There is dishonest language demonizing a bill protecting parental rights with regards to public schools
Yeah, I know, but the name stuck.
but why would Disney put itself in opposition to that?
I don't know, maybe because the name stuck and they bowed to woke cancel culture pressure?
Desantis did nothing to silence speech. Disney can say whatever they want, they're not entitled to perks not granted by the constitution.
If Disney came out in support of Russia in their war against Ukraine, few would have objected to Desantis withdrawing Disney's autonomy over Reedy Creek. In fact, the federal government and other states would have also penalized Disney. There's nothing unconstitutional about a state cancelling contracts and agreements over a "political stance".
You can make a moral argument that this injures the spirit of free speech. But Reason is on record saying that social media platforms should just erase anything on their site based on their standard and personal morality.
Desantis did nothing to silence speech. Disney can say whatever they want, they’re not entitled to perks not granted by the constitution.
By this logic, a state can revoke your driver's license, raise your taxes, eminent domain your house, or any number of other not guaranteed privileges in retaliation for anyone's political beliefs.
There’s nothing unconstitutional about a state cancelling contracts and agreements over a “political stance”.
There absolutely is. Retaliation against a political stance has been shown to be a violation 1A. Here are precedents:
a bungalow owner’s building permit was revoked immediately after the town learned that the owner would not dismiss his federal lawsuit against it.
a civil-engineering firm, which specializes in designing and installing alternative subsurface sewage disposal systems, criticized the Department of Sewage Disposal Management and then license revocation proceedings were initiated against it.
a tow-truck operator criticized the police department, which then removed his towing company from the department’s approved towing list.
https://www.wigginslawgroup.com/practice-areas/civil-rights/first-amendment-retaliation/
Just because you both share the same bronze aged morality doesn't mean either of you are right.
If "bronze aged morality" means that an organization shouldn't bite the hand that fed them, then yes, it is right.
Perhaps you should follow the morals yourself.
The Human Rights Campaign in particular is a fucking mafia outfit, as their "inclusivity" ratings are part of the whole ESG racket.
That's an organization that needs to have its assets frozen and officials thrown in prison for bribery and extortion.
https://twitter.com/CynicalPublius/status/1736069303345062060?t=A6cgN6H0d7euJbV8jYCoaQ&s=19
By now you all have probably heard about the Democrat Senate staffer who filmed himself having gay sex in the Senate Judiciary Committee's hearing room.
I won't name this guy's name here (you can find it easily enough), but on his LinkedIn he said that he had "shown poor judgement" and that he would "never disrespect his workplace."
(Let me tell ya something fella--buggery on your boss' desk is pretty darned disrespectful.)
But what fascinates me about this is what it says about Gen Z (or at least Democrat Gen Zs with all the right Ivy League credentials). We have fashioned a generation of amoral narcissists, and his LinkedIn statement shows why:
1. By "poor judgement" he means "I did something that got me in trouble," and not "I did something that was objectively wrong."
2. How do I know this? Because in his next breathe he states that an objectively disrespectful act is not disrespectful because in HIS MIND it's not disrespectful.
We have abandoned all objective forms of morality, and to the average Democrat Gen Z, morality and right/wrong are wholly subjective exercises, i.e., "Whatever I believe is morally right is morally right--it's MY TRUTH."
When you study history, an abandonment of objective forms of morality inevitably leads to societal destruction and genocide. This is the path we are on, and this Senate staffer unwittingly illuminates that path for us with his actions and words.
When I see the phrase Objectively Wrong I know they mean wrong in their limited point of view.
On the contrary, someone can be objectively wrong. For example, the claim that a man can turn into a woman and vice versa is objectively wrong, as do those who promote such a postulation.
You need to go back to philosophy class.
This is a dishonest, propaganda piece of an article, and should be embarrassing to Reason in light of the recent revelations about what was really going on at Reedy Creek.
Dishonest and fundamentally retarded. The whole reason Reedy Creek got shitcanned wasn't because it wanted to educate its own students the way it saw fit. It got shitcanned because the controlling corporate interests tried to usurp the State legislature from CA in a manner than no county in any other state would/could do. It's an inversion of the J6 retardation where people with no meaningful power to influence the outcome milled about "disrupting" the business of government, while Disney, with the means and ability to significantly disrupt the business of government, is just being regarded as though they were just a bunch of private citizens milling about a private theme park.
Oh dear, a corporation is being dishonest... a politician trying to make nationwide news because he is running for president abuses his office.... Say it isn't so! That never happens!
Just because the magazine doesn't take your position doesn't mean they are taking the other sides. Get over yourself.
No one is disputing that both Disney and Biden are both corrupt. But the author has been dishonest in the article--that's what we're calling him out for.
Reason may have a higher percentage of Florida stories than the Tampa Bay Times.
I don't know if they explicitly wrote that this was Florida Month in Reason, but isn't it obvious?
DeSantis must be polling better than Haley.
Not really.
But Reason, as usual, is months behind reality.
I've just gotten to the "don't say gay" part, and it's so sad there isn't some background on this which would establish which side was the aggressor in this culture war. It's all about resistance to a movement which was most strongly felt via government schools to propagandize in favor of anti-traditional sexual thinking. This is not the ground that'd previously been fought over of fag-bashing and the like; actual freedom of expression in that regard has been established. Rather, it's over seizing the reins to command just the reverse of what'd previously been imposed. Those now posturing for freedom in this regard intend no such thing!
propagandize in favor of anti-traditional sexual thinking
Hmm. If this were 1850, and a person were to argue in favor of the notion that blacks and whites were equal, would that person be labeled an "aggressor in a culture war" for "propagandizing in favor of anti-traditional racial thinking"?
If you start from a premise that gays and straights should be regarded as equal before the law, then what is the rationale for having a school curriculum that treats gays and straights as unequal?
They aren't balanced at all in population distribution.
Simple.
And? Why do you think that's a relevant point? Is freedom only available to those who belong to a majority group based on sexual orientation or physical characteristics? But, of course, the fact that the vast majority of people disagree with the homophobic actions and beliefs of traditionalists and conservatives suddenly doesn't matter because that isn't a majority group that sustains your outdated beliefs in American culture.
Curricula should emphasize whoever the majority population is.
And traditionalist beliefs outnumber pro-LBGT globally by several factors (and here in the US). So you are very wrong that it's a minority view.
In that case, anti-gay bigotry should definitely not be allowed. The vast majority of Americans oppose this conservative nonsense.
When over half of the country identifies as Christian? Even assuming fully even distribution, you are very likely to never have a majority pro-lgbt district.
Identifies.
Kind of like how gays used to stay deep in the closet so they identified as heterosexual when the polling man called.
Plenty of people don't believe but want the social benefits of a church. So they lie. It's not hard to lie to cross cultists, anyone gullible enough to believe the fireside stories of bronze aged syphalitic goat herders drunk on fermented mares milk isn't hard to lie to.
Look at how the abortion issue is going in states that should be filled with Christians. They keep voting FOR abortion rights. Face it, your superstitions are on the downward slide. Your religion and your political party are slouching toward irrelevance.
"When over half of the country identifies as Christian?"
And most of them aren't anti-LGBT. In fact, most of them aren't. Christians aren't anti-gay, a small portion of Christians are anti-gay. Do you really thing that the Venn diagram of Christians and anti-gay people is a circle? Could you actually be that deluded?
Majorities hating LGBT people hasn't been a thing since the early aughts.
You can look up the statistics on how people voted for gay marriage. Spoiler: it didn't go well for the LGBT crowd much.
Yes, I'm aware that cultural conservatives believe that equal protection under the law is subject to conservative approval. It's just proof that cultural conservatives don't believe in the rule of law if it makes them sad or angry.
Your feelings of anger and impending irrelevance aren't a justification for opposing the rule of law.
Is freedom only available to those who belong to a majority group based on sexual orientation or physical characteristics?
That basic function--maintaining the preferences of the majority group--is how society has worked for most of human history.
The current majority group thinks the freedom to molest little kids is wrong, so their freedom should absolutely be limited.
"The current majority group thinks the freedom to molest little kids is wrong"
Virtually everyone in America thinks molesting kids is wrong, except a notable percentage of Catholic priests and Boy Scout leaders.
Claiming that opposition to book bans and denial of reality is equivalent to supporting child molestation just makes you look like an idiot in addition to an authoritarian.
Virtually everyone in America thinks molesting kids is wrong, except a notable percentage of Catholic priests and Boy Scout leaders.
Funny how you pointedly left out school teachers, who are far more predatory than the two you cited. But then, they're on your team, so that's understandable.
Regardless, this whole "love is love" nonsense is how you get deviants like William and Zachary Zulock thinking it's okay to pimp out small children, or Alden Bunag getting 15-30 years for child porn.
"Funny how you pointedly left out school teachers"
Probably because the rate of molestation among teachers is lower then the general public, unlike priests. And if you separate out pre-pubescent victims, the BSA rate rises while the general population rate falls.
We all know cultural conservatives are vehement in their opposition to child molestation ... unless it's a conservative doing it. That's pretty much their moral code across the board.
The moral outrage of the right is inversely proportional to how conservative the offender is. The more conservative the criminal, the less outraged cultural conservatives are. If the criminal is conservative enough, conservative outrage turns into apologism.
Claim: Probably because the rate of molestation among teachers is lower then the general public, unlike priests. And if you separate out pre-pubescent victims, the BSA rate rises while the general population rate falls.
Reality:
"A Bureau of Justice Statistics report shows 1.6 % (sixteen out of one thousand) of children between the ages of 12-17 were victims of rape/sexual assault"
"Of children in 8th through 11th grade, about 3.5 million students (nearly 7%) surveyed reported having had physical sexual contact from an adult (most often a teacher or coach). The type of physical contact ranged from unwanted touching of their body, all the way up to sexual intercourse.
This statistic increases to about 4.5 million children (10%) when it takes other types of sexual misconduct into consideration, such as being shown pornography or being subjected to sexually explicit language or exhibitionism.
"According to an extensive study produced by John Jay College for the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, about 4 percent of priests in ministry from the study period (1950-2002) were accused of sexual abuse."
This, of course, is why Nelson rushed to defend his political allies in the teaching profession.
Weren't you complaining about someone not using facts?
Where is does anything say that people who practice unusual sexual behavior are unequal?
The controversy is pushing the ideology that all sexual practices are equal.
The controversy is pushing the ideology that all sexual practices are equal.
If someone put a gun to your head and said "You're gay now, suck that man's dick" would be able to decide to be gay?
No?
Then why treat people with different sexual predilictions as if it's a choice that they made?
That is assuming those predilection are arrived at in the same way that sexual desires which correlate to functional sexual practices are the same.
Also, the progs are not exactly happy ideologically with the idea that sexual orientation is an immutable characteristic, it goes against their hedonistic ethic.
Could you choose to be gay? I couldn't. Every gay person I've known couldn't choose to be straight if they wanted to. And many have. Wanted to at least. Then been kicked out of their families.
My point is that when you don't see it as a choice then it looks different.
Sexual predilections may not be a conscious choice, but heterosexuality is the only default position because reproduction is the only real biological purpose. You can ascribe psychological purposes but those would be secondary and ancillary.
"reproduction is the only real biological purpose"
The overwhelming majority of sexual activity is engaged in for pleasure, not procreation. I wouldn't be surprised if it was over 99%.
The "sex is for procreation" bit is about the most absurd thing that homophobes say. And they say a whole lot of patently absurd things, so there's stiff competition for the most idiotic.
"The overwhelming majority of sexual activity is engaged in for pleasure, not procreation. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was over 99%"
It doesn't matter if the pleasure motive is 100%, you fucking idiot. The biological purpose is still reproduction. It's pleasurable solely to encourage us to reproduce. Just like the sole purpose of eating is nourishment, but it's evolved to be pleasurable to encourage you to do it.
I swear, your fucking head is completely empty.
"The “sex is for procreation” bit is about the most absurd thing that homophobes say."
Fuck off, your woke drivel has no power here.
"The biological purpose is still reproduction."
And? So what? Why is that relevant to anything? You say that as if it is some sort of relevant fact that matters to ... anything.
Why do you think that the fact that sex can, very rarely, lead to reproduction is an important fact? What does it change?
"I swear, your fucking head is completely empty."
I'm not the one who thinks that the possibility of pregnancy is relevant to anything else. OK, heterosexual sex can possibly lead to pregnancy. So what?
"And? So what? Why is that relevant to anything? You say that as if it is some sort of relevant fact that matters to … anything."
I don't know if you're more retarded than dishonest or the other way around.
I'll say it clearly you fucking dipstick: IT'S THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS WHEN IT COMES TO SEX.
Reproduction is the only reason that human beings are walking the earth and occasionally the moon. Aside for a handful of in-vitro conceptions it's why there is anyone.
Nobody was ever created by you ass fucking your chums.
Staggering sophistry to claim otherwise. You're kind of amazing.
"IT’S THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS WHEN IT COMES TO SEX."
In the few years that I've been here, you have said some monumentally stupid things, usually several times a week. But this is easily the stupidest.
Just to make sure I am understanding you correctly, you really think that reproduction is the only thing that matters when it comes to sex? Not pleasure or connection or joy or love or anything else? Just reproduction?
"Nobody was ever created by you ass fucking your chums."
Why would you think anyone believes otherwise. Do you believe that someone has said, "If I have anal sex, I can make a baby"? Are you truly that dumb?
I have no trouble believing Nelson was conceived anally.
That tracks. You seem to be stupid enough to believe that.
Is it your intention to impregnate your partner every time you have sex? If not, then for what purpose do you have sex?
Intention has nothing to to do with purpose. Maybe it's fun sticking a screwdriver up your ass but that's not what the screwdriver (or your asshole) was made for. Maybe you get a hard-on from eating your partners fresh turd, but psycho-sexual stimulation isn't the purpose of your digestive system.
Does this mean you shouldn't be allowed to enjoy your kinks? No. But it's self-deception to tell yourself that they are the purpose.
OK, you're going on mute. Does your mommy know you're playing with her phone?
We know from metric fucktons of empirical evidence that male homosexual 'bathhouse' culture and sexual practices(little to no condom use) cause widespread disease. The most recent glaringly obvious evidence of such being the monkeypox outbreak, where that worthless shitheel Shackleford attempted multiple times to gaslight the readers of Reason that the gay male community weren't effectively 100% responsible for spreading it.
"male homosexual ‘bathhouse’ culture and sexual practices(little to no condom use) cause widespread disease."
So can heterosexual sex without a condom. As it can when heterosexuals have anal sex. What, do you think because you're wife is a woman that she's not exactly as likely to get a disease from you when you bang her in the ass as a man?
You really should learn to meditate. Being as angry as you are over things that it's pointless to be angry about can't be good for your health.
because you’re wife is a woman that she’s not exactly as likely to get a disease from you when you bang her in the ass as a man?
Unless she or he has been fucking around outside of marriage, no. You really have no clue how STDs work, huh?
I mean fucking comparing monogamy with a bathhouse for disease transmission, are you sane?
I didn't compare monogamy to "bathhouse culture". You did.
I compared the chance of disease being transmitted through sexual activity between heterosexuals with the chance of disease being transmitted through sexual activity between homosexuals, which is exactly the same.
Also, "bathhouse culture" hasn't been a thing since the 80s. You really don't mind making your ignorance public, do you?
Well you DUMB FUCKING RETARD if you weren't so FUCKING RETARDED you would understand that if consistent condom use was practiced by male homosexuals even with their profligately sexual cultural mores that the disease spread wouldn't be nearly as bad. The wildfire spread of monkeypox among the male homosexual population was caused by the intersection of the the two things. By and large, hetero relationships are not even remotely as likely to cause disease, primarily because women are both less constantly horny than men, they are consistently more likely to insist on condom use, and because when they see open sores all over someone's mouth, ass and cock they're gonna say hell fucking no. Such a conclusion would however require you not to be the DUMB FUCKING RETARD you have proven time and again that you are. As for why such doesn't apply nearly as much to other venereal diseases that would because their incubation times and symptoms are both longer and not as obvious visually, which means that their spread is consistent over a longer timeline.
"The controversy is pushing the ideology that all sexual practices are equal."
That isn't a controversy in most people's minds. Almost any sexual activity between concenting adults is 100% equal to the age-old "one man, one woman, heterosexual, after-marriage" sexual paradigm that traditionalists support.
Except that they are not in reality, and prog ideology is hellbent on forcing everyone to ignore reality.
"Except that they are not in reality"
Why? Because you say do? That and $5 will get you a Starbucks.
Because the current sexual mores are resulting in a deeply unhappy, sexually and socially unhealthy society. The evidence is showing that they are a complete failure.
Not really. Some people are happy. Some people are miserable. Most people exist somewhere in between. Virtually no one is miserable because of modern sexual mores. I know you self-aggrandizing, moralistic simpletons desperately want to believe it, but modern sexual mores are somewhere between #10,000 and #20,000 on the list of things with the biggest impact on people's happiness. It just isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. Or at least for normal people, it isn't.
Virtually no one is miserable because of modern sexual mores.
If you believe that, you are astonishingly ignorant. The chaos caused in people's lives, and in their children's lives, by people poorly and unwisely managing their sexual relationships, causes vast misery. It is perhaps the single greatest cause of unhappiness and trauma in our society today.
Right. Married, heterosexual people are good people. Everyone else is the problem.
That's not my point at all.
What business of yours is it?
It's close minded superstitious halfwits like you that make these people feel like one they need to be over the top in their efforts. I don't doubt in the least spending 5 minutes reading your posts would make a moderate gay man into an extremists who fears your kind wants to stuff them all in concentration camps.
Ah, here we go with the melodramatics.
Exactly how do restrictions in K-12, especially younger grades, on discussing sex, gender, and related issues treat people unequally?
Depends. If it's all restricted due to appropriateness then that's one thing, but singling certain ideas out is ideological. In principle it's not much different than banning the mere mention of creationism.
Freedom means not agreeing with everything.
When you can only read stories with heterosexual parents, protagonists, characters, and themes, most people would call that "100% to 0%" split to be obviously unequal treatment.
One of the Moms for Liberty groups (not the one with the throuple-loving rapist) tried to get a book banned because the author's last name was Gay. That is how irrational they are.
heterosexual parents
There's no other kind. We all have a mother and a father.
"There’s no other kind."
There are lots of other kinds of parents. It's true that, for now, sperm from one man and an egg (or, sometimes, more than one) from one woman makes one (or, sometimes, more than one) new human.
But if you think that's what makes a parent, you don't have a clue as to what being a parent is about.
So you're throwing out the biological definition of parent for an amorphous one based on your feelz.
The party of "science", folks.
You think there's only one definitionn of "parent" and it's only about biology?
You're really on a "saying stupid things" roll in this comment section.
That's what makes a mother or a father.
Biology makes a mother or a father (or two mothers or two fathers)? Nothing else?
Adoptive parents would like you to go fuck yourself.
Biology makes a mother or a father (or two mothers or two fathers)? Nothing else?
Adoptive parents would like you to go fuck yourself.
Are you unfamiliar with how babies are made?
Yes. Are you unfamiliar with what parents are?
Hint: it's not only biology.
Hint: it’s not only biology.
But there's no kids without it.
Adoptive parents would like you to go fuck yourself.
Adoptive parents step up to care for children who have tragically lost their parents. In Gay households in which only one member of the couple are the parent of the child, the child's relationship with the other parent has been callously and deliberately severed so that the Gay parent's boyfriend or girlfriend can cosplay being the other parent. There is no comparison between the noble act of adoptive parents taking in an orphan, and a gay couple effectively creating a fatherless or motherless child so that one them can steal the parental role for his or her own emotional gratification.
"Adoptive parents step up to care for children who have tragically lost their parents."
No, adoptive patents step up to care for children who don't have anyone with parental rights in their lives. It's not limited to children who have "tragically lost their parents". That's just idiotic.
"In Gay households in which only one member of the couple are the parent of the child, the child’s relationship with the other parent has been callously and deliberately severed so that the Gay parent’s boyfriend or girlfriend can cosplay being the other parent."
As opposed to blended families? Are step-parents "cosplaying" as well?
"There is no comparison between the noble act of adoptive parents taking in an orphan, and a gay couple effectively creating a fatherless or motherless child so that one them can steal the parental role for his or her own emotional gratification."
There is an exact comparison. You do understand that gay and straight couples adopt from the exact same pool of children, right? Even you can't be that ignorant.
No, adoptive patents step up to care for children who don’t have anyone with parental rights in their lives. It’s not limited to children who have “tragically lost their parents”. That’s just idiotic.
If the child doesn't have anyone with parental rights, then the parents have been tragically lost. I never said they had to be dead.
As opposed to blended families? Are step-parents “cosplaying” as well?
No, step-parents are actual step-parents. Now, if they engaged in devious plotting to get rid of the actual parent, and then demanded to be treated and referred to as if they were the actual parent, then that would be a fraud similar to the situation of a "significant other" of a Gay person pretending to be a child's real parent.
There is an exact comparison. You do understand that gay and straight couples adopt from the exact same pool of children, right?
No, it is not an exact comparison, since mothers and fathers are not the same. In some cases, gay and straight couples adopt from the same "pool", but more often, gay couples contrive to have babies created for their cosplaying pleasure. Since the effects on a child of living in our horrible foster care system constitute a medical emergency, it's better for those children to be adopted by gay individuals or couples than for them not to be adopted at all, but that should happen only as a last resort if no married mother and father are available.
Even you can’t be that ignorant.
Your ignorance, on the other hand, seems unrestricted.
Moms for Liberty...tried to get a book banned because the author’s last name was Gay.
That is false. But you knew that.
https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/alabama-library-flagged-childrens-book-authors-last-name-gay-rcna119747
Yes, it is absoluyely true. Although it was an Alabama library, not Moms for Liberty, that did it. Same bigotry, Moms for Liberty was in a long-term throuple with her husband and another woman and yes, he has been accused of raping the other woman.
But at this point I'm more surprised when cultural conservatives actually turn out to adhere to their beliefs. Let's be honest, most of them turn out to be self-righteous hucksters that wouldn't recognize morality if it walked up and bit them.
They would be considered a normal person in about 90% of the US.
They would, of course, be considered batshit insane in 90% of the world that isn't the US - even today.
Keep on trying to paint Americans as horrible racists.
If the teacher in a school the students had to attend were teaching such a doctrine, as part of an organized movement among the teachers, yes, I would so label it. It's bad enough that people are made to pay for and attend schools, but the damage could be mitigated by just teaching facts, not opinions.
That's a weird thing for you to say. I thought you supported "Don't Say Gay".
Maybe I should've quoted chemjeff to be clear what I was labeling as what. I meant "aggressor in a culture war" as a label for teaching the things he referred to from 1850.
The bill was just as accurately described as "Don't Say Straight".
There was no sexuality requirement to say "Hey, let's avoid softcore porn in public schools".
One can say "Gays and straights are equal" and oppose books about giving random dudes blowjobs. Since there aren't hetero books in the school libraries that do this, well, the problem seems to be heavily on one side of the equation.
How about books by authors whose name is Gay? Because they tried to get that author's banned.
When you are literally searching for the keyword "gay" and submitting all results for removal, you aren't doing anything in a principled way. You're just targeting any mention of homosexuality.
Hmm, I wonder what a more succinct way to say that is? Maybe "Don't Say Gay"? Where have I heard that before?
And clumsy attempts to filter out porn have caught material about breast examination. So what?
It's almost like the army of the self-righteous are incompetent idiots who can't be trusted to do simple tasks, let alone guide the millions of less-enlightened sinners into the light.
Claiming anything that has the word "gay" in it has sexually explicit material is clearly complete bullshit and has no basis.
Define "they"
In this specific case, an Alabama library. But do we really think they're the only ones searching for the word "gay" and claiming any results are sexually explicit?
And if you do, I have a bridge to sell you.
"In this specific case, an Alabama library."
Super relevant in a story about Florida.
And Moms for Liberty had nothing to do with it.
they tried to get that author’s banned
Bullshit. Here's the actual story. Which I'm sure you already know.
https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/alabama-library-flagged-childrens-book-authors-last-name-gay-rcna119747
Yes, they submitted the book because the author's name was Gay. But I guess that isn't suspicious at all to you. Because to you, gay is synonymous with sexually explicit.
No it isn't. Even Jeff doesn't try to pull that sort of sophistry here anymore.
You're switching "theys" in the middle of your lie. Did you thing we wouldn't notice?
"No it isn’t."
So what's the problem with children's books that have gay characters? Why are cultural.cpnaervatibes doing keyword searches for the word "gay" and using the results to populate a list of books that should, in their opinion, be banned from schools?
I've been assured that Moms for Liberty and the other book ban fans are only trying to keep sexual content away from children. Are you admitting that's not the case?
So what’s the problem with children’s books that have gay characters?
What's the problem with books in school libraries for young children not mentioning the sexual proclivities of the characters in them? When I was a little kid, I never wondered who The Cat In The Hat was banging.
A story with two gay parents doesn't talk about "sexual proclivities" any more than a story with two heterosexual parents does.
You seem to be incapable of differentiating between gay people and gay sex. Weird, since they're two completely different things.
"When I was a little kid, I never wondered who The Cat In The Hat was banging."
No one did.
If a child lives with his father and Steve, and dad and Steve are referred to as the child's parents, then a point is being made about the nature of their relationship. The guileless exclusion of the child's mother from the picture is also making a point. These things would be glaring if we weren't desensitized to them by decades of propaganda.
.
Pretty sure it was Thing 1 and Thing 2...
Separately or both at once?
If this were 1850, and a person were to argue in favor of the notion that blacks and whites were equal, would that person be labeled an “aggressor in a culture war” for “propagandizing in favor of anti-traditional racial thinking”?
Yes, at that time, that would have been an accurate description of such a person.
what is the rationale for having a school curriculum that treats gays and straights as unequal?
They should be treated equally. Neither straight sex nor gay sex should be in the curriculum for young children. Neither straight nor gay erotic literature should be in the elementary school library.
Western Civilization has its roots in ancient Greece, where homosexuality was common and accepted. From that standpoint, for Americans, gay is as "traditional" as democracy.
How do you suppose pro-gay became "anti-traditional"?
Western Civilization has many roots, Ancient Greece being only one of them. There's also Ancient Rome/Etruscans and the Christianity they adopted, and probably the biggest influence, the *gasp* Germanic barbarians.
What may have been accepted in ancient Greece was pederasty, and it is debatable if older men sexually exploiting the boys they were mentoring was actually considered acceptable.
We can add Chiny to the list of pro-pedos around here. Why am I not surprised?
In some crowds, I get labeled as pro-pedo, just because I don't think it's a big deal if children (let alone teenagers) are incidentally exposed to sexy material or activity. Like for instance when my 3 YO niece came into my bedroom while I was about to change clothes, and after two tries of shooing her out and seeing her come back, I gave up and just changed in front of her. (The door had no lock.) My sister and father thought that was outré, though my brother-in-law didn't. What it is is that I'm just casual about sexuality; I'm practically the opposite of the trend to cram sexuality into kids.
Changing clothes is not sexual activity.
Neither is a story with two fathers, but the Don't Say Gay folks are all over that one.
No one has two fathers.
Any child of gay male parents has two fathers. You have a sad view of what it means to be a parent.
You have a delusional view of what it means to be father. Everyone has a mother and a father, even if the mother has been intentionally excluded from their life.
"Everyone has a mother and a father,"
Biologically, they have one male and one female who provides the gametes. If you think that's the only meaning of "parents" you are clueless. I've known many adoptive parents. But in your world, that doesn't count? What an idiot you are.
Someone who screams, "You should never be naked in front of a child" doesn't care about that.
The point is, there are always people who'll characterize something as extreme. But that doesn't mean there should be no standards at all, or that it's OK for government to impose anything some "expert" decrees as a standard. It's pretty easy to avoid the deep parts of this swamp, so why pretend they're trying to criminalize wet feet?
And it's important to note that the rules and cultural norms about pederasty upheld by those ancients Greeks who did accept it applied only to boys who were citizens. Greek (and later Roman) men could do as they pleased with slave and foreign boys, with no consequences, even though there might have been some social opprobrium attached.
Which is to say the modern concept of homosexuality did not exist in Ancient Greece, generally accepted same sex relationship did not take place between social equals to the extent that in today's terms it would be considered exploitative to the point of rape.
Except homosexuality *wasn't* common and accepted.
This, adult male homosexuality was generally frowned on and could even get you kicked out of your family or even exiled. What Chinny is waxing rhapsodical about was actually boy-fucking.
Do you believe the retarded bs you say?
What he posts regards a minor attraction.
All you need do is look around. They wouldn't be propagandizing like this if it were traditional in the culture around them.
But it's not "gay" that I think is primarily the problem. Rather, it's the whole endeavor of sexualizing children.
The Patrick Wojahn crowd will say one thing and do another.
"some background on this which would establish which side was the aggressor in this culture war"
That's easy. Cultural conservatives. When your belief is that anything that doesn't reinforce your minority cultural beliefs needs to be shut down by legislation and government coercion, you are always the one starting the fight in the culture war.
The way culture is supposed to work is that it is a reflection of the beliefs and values of the entire community, not just the ones that don't want things to change. But guess what happens every time culture changes in a way that traditionalists and conservatives don't like? Laws and rules designed to prevent the beliefs of the majority to shape our national culture.
Whether it was abolishing slavery, allowing women to vote, allowing blacks to vote, allowing voluntary associations of workers, preventing unequal treatment of black voters, preventing unequal treatment of blacks in commerce, allowing (and simplifying) divorce, preventing political violence against blacks, allowing non-standard and non-nuclear families equal treatment, allowing interracial marriages, allowing contraception, allowing gay sex, allowing abortion (presently under attack). allowing gay marriage, etc., cultural conservatives have constantly resisted any attempt to allow people more freedom of choice and conscience through anti-liberty laws and legal action.
If you want to be a conservative, great. Be one. If you want to force everyone else to act like they are a conservative, the answer is no.
"movement which was most strongly felt via government schools to propagandize in favor of anti-traditional sexual thinking"
You mean reflecting the culture of today instead of the culture of yesterday? That's called educating people. Schools shouldn't be in the business of enforcing traditional beliefs by ignoring contemporary beliefs. Knowledge and information are good things, even if they don't comport with traditional values.
"Those now posturing for freedom in this regard intend no such thing!"
Says one of the people who actively supports criminalizing freedom. Do you have any self-awareness at all?
Your view is completely distorted. Most of the traditionalists are just trying to prevent resources from being forcibly extracted from them to use to propagandize in a culture war.
And the propaganda isn't, "Be nice to people." If the equivalent to this propaganda were being used in matters of race, authority figures would be trying to convince children they were actually black. They'd come home from school with shoe polish having been applied to their skin preparatory to their eventual surgery to match their looks to their African personality features.
"forcibly extracted from them to use to propagandize in a culture war"
How is talking about gay people "propaganda"? How is a story with two fathers "sexual"? How is a book by an author with the last name "Gay" objectionable?
You are claiming that discussing things that are real thongs and exist in the real world (and often in the families of the children in the very classrooms that are banning books) is an attack on you and your children. It isn't. It isn't an initiation of a culture war to talk about the fact that some people have two daddies or two mommies, or that sometimes a man loves a woman and sometimes he loves a man, or that gay people are exactly the same as straight people. You aren't being persecuted by having such truths acknowledged in a classroom setting.
Trying to stop reality, on the other hand, is absolutely initiating a culture war. When one side insists on banning books and forbidding speech and support teachers fearing for their jobs if they mention they have a same-sex spouse or talk about the existence of homosexuality, they are the side that is in the wrong. Cultural conservatives are the ones pushing the culture war because they can't stand that traditional values are being examined and discarded by American culture. The only option they have is to try to legislate their narrow vision and force it on everyone else.
You have this dissociative belief that there is some vast, nationwide, secret plot to move America away from traditional values. But there isn't. It's just what happens over time.
Like abolishing slavery, letting women vote, and protecting blacks against second-class citizenship and legalized murder, new ideas replace traditional ideas because when they are examined they are found to be superior to the ideas of the past. That doesn't make them an attack in a culture war. It just makes them a better idea.
"If the equivalent to this propaganda were being used in matters of race, authority figures would be trying to convince children they were actually black."
School curricula aren't trying to convince kids they're gay. That's rampant paranoia. Placing gay people, gay marriages, and gay families on an equal footing (and allowing them to be represented in teaching materials) with heterosexual people, marriages, and families isn't an attack in the culture wars.
Striving to make them invisible while allowing heterosexual families to remain throughout the stories and materials used to instruct kids, however, is definitely fighting the culture war.
"They’d come home from school with shoe polish having been applied to their skin preparatory to their eventual surgery to match their looks to their African personality features."
That is some fucked-up, delusional thinking. No wonder you can't see that disagreeing with your beliefs isn't an attack on you. You live in a fantasy world.
Well, can you think of a better analogy?
Yes.
When I was learning to read, I don't remember there being any mention or illustration in the books of the sex lives or sleeping arrangements of Dick and Jane's parents.
And there isn't anything like that in children's books with gay parents, either. If you believe that there is, you'll believe anything.
Then how do you know that there ARE children's books with Gay parents?
Because they talk about both parents and they're both men (or both women)? It's not that hard to understand.
If a child lives with one parent and another adult and the two of them are referred to as the child's parents, then the nature of their relationship has been stated. It's not that hard to understand.
Here is the report that Mickey Rat referenced, that he refused to link to:
https://dw-wp-production.imgix.net/2023/12/CFTOD.pdf
You have to get past the introduction, which is obviously written by a pro-DeSantis partisan and reads like one of his campaign ads.
But if you dive into the text of it, you can see the description of the Reedy Creek district and some of the more legitimate complaints about how the district operated.
One of the complaints that keeps popping up in the report is that the Reedy Creek administrators prioritized the interests of Disney above all else in the district. That this was 'unfair' to everyone else. But, as we keep being told here, government should be responsive to the interests of the taxpayers, right? Well in Reedy Creek, Disney is THE TAXPAYER, or the only one who really matters. From this perspective, why shouldn't Disney's interests get prioritized over others, because they are the biggest taxpayer?
The report also raises some issues associated with conflicts of interest, the line between Reedy Creek management and Disney World management was a bit blurred. That does seem like a problem, and it is good that this at least is being reformed.
But I would propose that after reading this report, if you were to devise a system from scratch for corporate self-governance according to libertarian principles, it would look a lot like Reedy Creek. Not identical - there were some issues with it - but the core idea would remain.
So I would caution anyone complaining about "cronyism" when it comes to Reedy Creek. Read the report first and then see what you think.
Again, one of the main reasons Disney never developed EPCOT as originally proposed, nor the worker housing was that they realized that would put a large number of permanent to semi-permanent voting residents into Disney's rotten borough of Lake Buena Vista, and they would be unable to control election outcomes.
The report is putting together a lot of things that have been known about how Disney ran Reedy Creek.
Yeah, it's so awful when an Improvement district is so successful it brings prosperity and benefit to everyone involved. We can't have a situation where everyone wins, can we? Especially if the people who brought all that prosperity say things that the government doesn't like. After all, the government is good and free speech is bad, right?
Notice that Chemjeff doesn't refute the actual report, or anything you said.
Hilariously, he rationalizes Disney not meeting obligation for the district as "taxpayer" looking out for his interests. So if a city privatized their police force, the company in charge of providing the police officers does NOT have to prioritize the safety of the taxpayers. Disney was granted AUTONOMY over Reedy Creek, not just a business license.
The guy puts on a nightly act of scolding others for tribalism and partisan hackery, and yet he engages in such behavior himself. "Don't trust the report because the auditor is appointed by Desantis" is as fair as "dismiss any government report that supports immigration because they lie". He would perhaps trust an "independent" auditor. But this is state affair. The governor is Desantis and the FL legislature is controlled by republicans. What does he expect? Trust only report ordered by a judge not appointed by Trump or republicans?
A critical thinker would engage in substance of the audit first, and not dismiss it out of hand because it "feels biased". Right? If Chemjeff is someone who says he is, then he would actually say "I'll judge this audit strictly by its merits, regardless of my feelings on Desantis". That's not who he is.
So the left starts a culture war demanding anal sex worshiping workshops for kids and somehow DeSantis is the culture warrior for objecting?
I'd say it's fair to peg DeSantis as more of a culture *defense* warrior than conservatives should entertain but Reasons obsession with the Disney episode and trying to paint him as the aggressor quite obviously is just a case of leftard projection.
Everyone knows these culture wars are the lefts bag of sh*t.
But I do agree that Disney was caught up as an innocent transmitter of a push in the war. They just want to make money, not enemies.
"So the left starts a culture war demanding anal sex worshiping workshops for kids"
I would question how many conservatives actually believe things like that were happening, but I'm afraid of the effect it might have on my belief in the basic decency and honesty of people. I fear that there are at least a dozen people here who 100% believe what you said is true.
Problem is. Being gay was never a crime and there was no war against gay. It's just another "[WE] special-people identity-affiliated" aggressive *stunt* of gang-building for government ('guns') entitlements to RULE those outside their [WE]-gang 'icky' people.
It is but an insane/idiotic historically predictable casualty of democratic [Na]tional So[zi]al[isms] progression here in the USA. So yes; I 100% believe it very much so is a ploy for demanding (gov-'guns') [WE] special-people worshiping by society.
Now lets hear the rebuttal.
https://twitter.com/JohnJGaltrules/status/1736035330380501475?t=fxxsQcwuS22148fTUFPQEw&s=19
Here he is. The senator Ben Cardin staffer that taped himself having gay sex in the senate chamber.
No apology, no remorse, just playing the victim. His statement is just as bad as you thought it would be. He even threatened legal action.
The hubris is staggering.
[Link]
"Attacked for who I love"?
Is he f'n serious?
https://twitter.com/MythinformedMKE/status/1735735223214624790?t=0goycUwFUe6R01ZM3oJM5g&s=19
“What’s the most dangerous animal on the planet? White people.”
Hollywood is completely captured by Woke. This is not fake. This is a real movie.
[Video]
What’s the most dangerous animal on the planet? White people.
That’s right, and you would be wise to remember that.
Making white people feel disaffected, resentful and oppressed really isn't the great idea these geniuses think it is.
It's part of their [Na]tional So[zi]alist political game. To run around being blatantly racist while calling everyone else in sight racist to deter being properly self recognized.
If the left didn't have the manipulation and deceit tools of projection and gang-identity affiliation building ([WE] mob RULES! democracy) mastered so well they wouldn't have anything at all but the self-identity of a Nazi symbol.
Just like gun proliferation, no greater force exists for churning out white supremacists than Hollywood.
Speaking of lard-butt Americans on their way to Disney Land:
Southwest Airlines "Customer of size and extra seat policy"
Customers who encroach upon any part of the neighboring seat(s) may proactively purchase the needed number of seats prior to travel to ensure the additional seat(s) is available. The armrest is considered to be the definitive boundary between seats; the width of the narrowest and widest passenger seats (in inches) is available on our Flying Southwest page. The purchase of additional seats serves as a notification of a special seating need and allows us to adequately plan for the number of occupied seats onboard. It also helps us ensure we can accommodate all Customers on the flight for which they purchased a ticket and avoid asking Customers to relinquish their seats for an unplanned accommodation. Most importantly, it ensures that all Customers onboard have access to safe and comfortable seating. You may contact us for a refund of the cost of additional seating after travel. If you prefer not to purchase an additional seat in advance, you have the option of purchasing just one seat and then discussing your seating needs with the Customer Service Agent at the departure gate. If it’s determined that a second (or third) seat is needed, you’ll be accommodated with a complimentary additional seat.
In other words, if you are a grossly fat slob, you can buy an extra seat or two, or waddle up to the gate desk and beg for one.
Other useful tips:
Why is there a policy for Customers of size?
We’ve had a long-standing policy for more than 30 years designed to meet the seating needs of Customers who require more than one seat and protect the comfort and safety of everyone onboard.
How do I know if I need a second seat?
The armrest is the definitive gauge for a Customer of size. It serves as the boundary between seats. If you’re unable to lower both armrests and/or encroach upon any portion of a seat next to you, you need a second seat.
If I need a seatbelt extension, do I need to have a second seat?
Not necessarily. Our policy does not focus on weight, and the seatbelt extension is not the determining factor. You may use only one Southwest®-provided seatbelt extension during your flight.
Why purchase a second seat if I can get a complimentary second seat at the airport?
Purchasing a second seat in advance allows us to account for the inventory need and greatly helps reduce the likelihood of an oversale situation. Also, you may not want to be approached at the airport or have a conversation with an Agent about your seating needs—you may prefer to know you have the needed number of seats, and booking two gives you these options. We refund all extra seat purchases for a Customer of size, even if the flight oversells.
>Gov. Ron DeSantis’ crusade to end America's greatest success in private governance.
I guess that's one way to characterize a regime filled with graft and bribery that ignored laws.
Don't forget the decades of plain and rampant IP theft.
Anyway - what did I say?
Oklahoma copies Florida's DEI-fighting tactics in universities and there were going to be a slew of 'DeSantis bad' articles coming in and here were are with two in a row.
.
Superstition-addled right-wing bigots tend not to be the brightest bulbs.
Hi Kirkland, maybe you'll do what chemjeff and Buttplug refuse to do. Why don't you describe what you mean by "right-wing".
What constitutes their beliefs?
Right-wingers tend to pine for illusory "good old days," disdaining modern America (mostly because of all of this damned progress).
Conservatives are unusually inclined toward superstition (organized religion) and dogma rather than reason, science, and the reality-based world.
Right-wingers are customarily roundly bigoted, especially fearful of immigrants and opposed to immigration.
They tend to prefer desolate, can't-keep-up backwaters to educated, successful, modern, diverse communities.
Right-wingers are increasingly disaffected and desperate as they continue to lose the culture war to the modern liberal-libertarian mainstream in America.
They love guns, oppose abortion (and often contraception), choose backwater religious schooling or downscale homeschooling over mainstream, legitimate campuses (let alone our strongest research and teaching institutions). Some are faux libertarians; most have a strong authoritarian streak (torture, moral scolding, statist womb management, abusive policing, attempts to impose right-wing preferences on advanced communities, immigration, death penalty, etc.).
That's a handy start toward recognizing right-wingers.
mostly because of all of this damned progress).
Ignore the increase in crime, murders and homelessness.
Conservatives are unusually inclined toward superstition (organized religion) and dogma rather than reason, science, and the reality-based world.
I think you're confused. Conservatives are usually rebelling against the new religions of climate change paranoia, LGBTP, and critical [whatever] theory.
There is no reason behind "the oppressed is the victim" - Hamas/Iran just proved that.
There is no science behind "the global is warming" - hence why they constantly have to change the terms and why their predictions constantly fail.
There is nothing reality-based about "pregnant men" "72 genders" or the straight-up oxymoron that is "gay marriage" and "gay parents" - and the reason you're so obsessed with getting this garbage in schools is because even children inherently and reflexively are able to point out how unreal nonsense that is.
They tend to prefer desolate, can’t-keep-up backwaters to educated, successful, modern, diverse communities.
Who can't answer the simple question: "What is a woman."
Yea. Educated. Successful. Keep telling yourselves that.
Right-wingers are increasingly disaffected and desperate as they continue to lose the culture war to the modern liberal-libertarian mainstream in America.
What do you think you're going to get when you "win" the culture war? What has it won you so far?
So far?
During my youth, the bigotry was open, common, even casual. Black children told to "find another way home" because a bigot didn't want them on "his" sidewalk -- and they did. Women were dragged by arm, sleeve, or hair into houses for beatings everyone heard but no one did anything to stop. Children were beaten by drunken losers in public. Gays were mocked mercilessly and beaten in alleys -- and that was by the police. Gays were fired, denied housing, denied benefits.
Public schools brought clergy into classrooms to yell at students about missing church. Creationism and prayer were present in classrooms, as were whitewashed versions of slavery and the Civil War.
Abortions were underground and dangerous. Drunken driving was waved off. Japanese cars were called "rice burners" and were forced to park in far-off lots, where they would be keyed.
Jews were rarely given the respect of being called Jews. Muslims weren't allowed close enough to be a factor.
Pipes spewed streams of multihued pollutants into streams and rivers -- where slack-jaws swam and fished, with their children.
The bigots were proud of their ugly thinking. They wanted everyone to know how they saw things, and that their way would be the way.
Thanks to the liberal-libertarian mainstream's victory in the culture war, our vestigial bigots no longer wish to be known as bigots, at least not in public. They hide behind euphemisms ("traditional values," "religious values," "conservative values," "heartland," "color-blind") and express their genuine feelings solely in what they perceive to be safe spaces (online message boards, private homes, Republican committee meetings, militia gatherings). Bigots, not gays, are the misfits and losers in today's America.
Better Americans have improved the environment; kicked creationism, prayer, and other nonsense out of legitimate classrooms; and arranged punishment for drunken drivers and wife-beaters. Someone who smacks a child around in public is likely to be arrested.
Our remaining bigots and superstitious, half-educated have become modern society's rejects. They huddle for warmth in desolate rural backwaters and can't-keep-up communities as America improves -- less rural, less religious, less backward, less bigoted, more diverse (less white) -- every day.
America has improved enormously during the most recent half-century or so of American progress, which has been shaped by better Americans against the wishes and efforts of Republicans, conservatives, racists, faux libertarians, xenophobes, misogynists, right-wingers, superstitious gay-bashers, chanting "United the Right" antisemites, and half-educated Islamophobes.
The continuing trajectory of American progress is predictable. Conservatives have lost the culture war.
During my youth, the bigotry was open, common, even casual.
That was half a century ago, and we fixed it. Get over it already.
You can't play the victim card forever. What you Marxists don't realize is that eventually YOU become the Oppressor.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronological_snobbery
^ Sums up Artie's mentality well.
perhaps the most successful experiment in private governance in U.S. history
Do you know why the 2nd Amendment says "a well-regulated militia" instead of just "a militia?" Because the Founders knew that in a free society, the irresponsible among us will start to abuse those freedoms in ways that are unhealthy for society.
Which is precisely what Disney did with their autonomy. A cultural institution that has spent a century defining itself as and becoming synonymous with "child and family friendly," suddenly started advocating - heavily - in favor of things anathema to both; subtly, then brazenly shoving a toxic social/political agenda into their product to both virtue signal and influence their market.
When the governor of Florida realized the abuses Disney was engaging in with their autonomy, and how it was harmful to the citizens of Florida (and the rest of the world), he rightfully took it away from them.
Same way you take a yo-yo away from a child when he starts swinging it around the room and knocking over vases.
So, it wasn't "the most successful experiment." It was an experiment that succeeded, until it went too far and decided to fail.
Whatever your views of the "Don't Say Gay" law
And you just revealed your biases and prejudice on the matter. There is no such thing as a "Don't Say Gay" law, and you know it. But you peddle that BS narrative anyway.
Rest of the article isn't worth reading as a result.
Those knowingly doing it and liking that are peddlephiles.
"suddenly started advocating – heavily – in favor of things anathema to both; subtly, then brazenly shoving a toxic social/political agenda into their product to both virtue signal and influence their market."
By pointing out that "Don't Say Gay" is a terrible law and is unabashed bigotry? That's enough to counteract decades of child- and family-friendly policies? Policies which, it should be pointed out, continue to this day? No, that doesn't sound like hyperbole at all.
"When the governor of Florida realized the abuses Disney was engaging in with their autonomy,"
By "autonomy", you mean the right to free speech? The cads!
"and how it was harmful to the citizens of Florida (and the rest of the world)"
You mean "not at all", right? Because anything else would be ... let's say an over-reaction.
"So, it wasn’t “the most successful experiment.” It was an experiment that succeeded, until it went too far and decided to fail."
By expecting to be allowed to share their opinion without the government retaliating against them? So in your world "disagreeing with the government" is the same as going too far? That's a frightening way of looking at freedom.
"There is no such thing as a “Don’t Say Gay” law, and you know it."
There is. Not only because when someone says "Don't Say Gay", everyone knows what is being discussed, as well as the actual text of the law:
3. Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.
Which says, in black and white, Don't Say Gay. Plus, of course, the later expansion of the law to cover every student through high school and the attempts to ban other books (that don't touch on homosexuality at all) by authors who wrote a book that was on the list to be banned as well as trying to ban an author for having the last name Gay (literally, she writes children's books with zero mention of anything forbidden in Don't Say Gay).
Pretending that there is a substantive basis for the book bans by conservatives is laughable. Pretending that it isn't about preventing any mention of homosexuals in schools is even more preposterous.
At least have the balls to say you hate gays and any mention of them in a positive way makes you fly into a rage.
>By pointing out that “Don’t Say Gay” is a terrible law and is unabashed bigotry?
Why is telling public schools that they need to keep their curricula age-appropriate a terrible law and unabashed bigotry?
You know the law doesn't actually stop teachers from saying 'gay', right?
Nelson's watched a lot of MSNBC lately. He knows what they meant. Dogwhistles everywhere. Just ask Joe Scarborough.
Gays like him are like vegans.
Their evangelism is acceptable.
"Why is telling public schools that they need to keep their curricula age-appropriate"
That's not what Don't Say Gay does. Children's books with gay parents are completely age-appropriate. As is talking about the fact that families with two daddies or two mommies are the same as ones with one mommy and one daddy or just one parent.
No one is buying your nonsense.
families with two daddies or two mommies are the same as ones with one mommy and one daddy or just one parent.
No, they're not. That's the problem.
Your inability to understand doesn't change the real world. Gay or straight (or even single parents), they're all parents. No difference in the roles, responsibilities, care, love or anything else.
That's nonsense. Mothers and fathers are not the same thing.
Children’s books with gay parents are completely age-appropriate. As is talking about the fact that families with two daddies or two mommies are the same as ones with one mommy and one daddy or just one parent.
How do you figure?
How do you not? What's inappropriate about telling a story about a kid with two dads?
Because that's cruel. Any child intentionally and willfully deprived of a mother, and all the maternal aspects she brings to child-raising, for literally no reason other than that her two "dads" are so selfish that they'd rather prioritize their own sexual fetishes over the child that's been entrusted to their care?
And you want to tell children stories about this? The hell is wrong with you.
By pointing out that “Don’t Say Gay” is a terrible law and is unabashed bigotry?
No. And that makes no sense in the first place. There is no "Don't Say Gay" law.
By “autonomy”, you mean the right to free speech?
No. I mean their intentional and systematic efforts to aid in grooming children to be receptive to Marxist ideology that will increase their risk of being targeted by sexual predators.
You mean “not at all”, right?
When a society is made dumber, more confused, and less certain of reality because a cultural juggernaut is using its massive influence to peddle brazen lies and falsities - do you think there's no harm in that?
Y'know, I can think of a certain social media platform run by a crazy spaceman that Disney (and the rest of the media empire, and academia) thinks is harmful to the citizenry because of what comes out under its banner.
Are you going to go have this conversation with them too?
By expecting to be allowed to share their opinion without the government retaliating against them?
"Now listen Mickey, I'm going to let you have this yo-yo, and I want you to be responsible with it. If you're not, I'm going to take it away."
"OK."
*swings yo-yo around wildly*
"That's it, I'm taking it away. You knew this would happen. I warned you."
Setting terms and then enforcing them isn't "retaliation." Disney screwed up. Bigtime.
There is.
No, there isn't. What "everyone knows" is a media distortion that isn't even in the same hemisphere as the actual reality of the law.
Which says, in black and white, Don’t Say Gay.
How? Seems to me like it could just as easily be read as "Don't Say Straight." Which would also be appropriate.
The gays and their enablers have a problem with this because they think it specifically and only targets them. Why would they think that in the first place? Straights don't have a problem with it. It's ONLY the gays who think they're losing access to something.
What is it they want so bad in a K-3 classroom?
Plus, of course, the later expansion of the law to cover every student through high school
Again, why is this a problem? What is it the gay community wants to expose to young people?
and the attempts to ban other books
Books that the school board ITSELF won't allow to be read aloud during recorded/live school board meetings?
Those books? If they're so cool with them, why aren't they letting parents recite them on camera during a public meeting? Is there something they find objectionable about their content?
At least have the balls to say you hate gays and any mention of them in a positive way makes you fly into a rage.
Neither of those is true even slightly.
I actually empathize with them deeply for the gross cruelty that this society has done to them over the last several decades. I genuinely wish there were still ways to help, but society has convinced them that they shouldn't ask for it. It's awful.
Bigoted, flailing right-wing assholes are among my favorite culture war casualties. But despite their silly superstition, multifaceted bigotry, antisocial nature, and disaffectedness, they are no problem replacement is not already solving.
Yeah, have fun with all those violent third world traditionalists you’re replacing docile conservative liberals with.
Are you sure you were responding to the correct person? Or was that just some random straw man?
Artie always does idiotic strawmen. He posts one and then runs away.
Why would I run away? I like to stand amid my side's victory in the culture war, admiring the progress and mocking the half-educated, superstitious, bigoted clingers who are the culture war's casualties.
Keep dreaming, progtard. You're the superstitious one here.
Did you think I'd be OK with there being an organized movement in the public schools to indoctrinate children on these subjects as long as they were from a heterosexual point of view?
"There is no such thing as a “Don’t Say Gay” law, and you know it. But you peddle that BS narrative anyway."
He is being deliberately decietful because attacking the Democratic Party's opponents is the real purpose behind Reason's unlibertarian support of special government regulations.
Wokertarian.
No. It said a well-regulated militia because a militia with differing rank systems, substandard broken down and rusted weaponry, and no training makes for a shit emergency force. It also has jack fucking shit to do with the right itself in question seeing as the 2nd amendment was two separate amendments condensed into one.
It also means that your 2A isn't a freedom to shoot your wife, neighbor, or rando on the street. If you abuse your rights, there will be consequences.
To anarco-fascist mystics, the First Amendment says you CAN shoot your husband, neighbor or cop guarding a women's clinic--provided you do it for Jesus. If anyone balks, tell them you were raised to believe that, and the issue is settled. Better a padded cell than a hemp necktie.
No, it doesn't. Stop doing drugs.
Right. "Regulated" didn't mean the same thing in 1789 that it means today.
At worst, it exposes DeSantis as a politician willing to toss out the rule of law and free markets to score cheap political points, in the lead-up to a Republican presidential primary in which he's struggling to meet expectations.
So a billion dollar corporation that receives special favors from the state-- favors that I don't enjoy, who involved itself in Florida politics is put upon by the Governor who says, "Yeah, no more special favors."
This smells a lot more of the "markets should decide what government mandated electric vehicle we should buy" style of libertarianism going around these days.
https://twitter.com/VDAREJamesK/status/1735921719867552206?t=qGqHmTDHs6BLfi9jkBEyPw&s=19
One of the most absurd parts of the never-ending fascist panic since 2016 are these Alternate History shows with Nazis destroying American monuments to demoralize the population and emphasize their defeat.
But it's "our" own government that's tearing down our monuments, or giving its lackeys a free pass to do it through mob action. There's no "traditional" American monument that isn't earmarked for eventual destruction the longer this goes on. It's not "Nazis" but the Regime
As the imminent removal of the Arlington Reconciliation Monument shows, we are already treated like a conquered foreign enemy. In fact, if a foreign military literally did invade and occupy us, actual Americans would probably be treated with more respect than we are now.
Just a reminder, Reason, Josh Hawley is literally worse than DeSantis, who's literally worse than Trump, who's literally worse than Hitler.
You're playing for the middle. Go for the brass ring.
tldr; version: corporate capture double-plus good, Republican evil. News at 11.
>or as it has come to be known by critics, the "Don't Say Gay" bill.
Maybe we should say "M Nolan Gray, who has become known to critics as the 'bigot pedophile racist who kicks puppies' writer" and then refer to him just as the "bigot pedophile racist who kicks puppies" forever after, even though there's not a single instance of puppy kicking to be found anywhere in any of his writings.
It's just as valid as the phrase "Don't say gay" after all.
So, the rest of this article, written by the bigot pedophile racist puppy kicker, pretty much is moot as starting with "don't say gay" immediately reveals bias and lack of reasoning. I don't even know why the bigot pedophile racist puppy kicker is even writing for an ostensibly libertarian publication when advocating for special handouts to big corporations rather than equal treatment of all under the law.
How's that for a way to debate an idea?
Disney vs Florida State Government...
To quote Dr. Serizawa, "Let them fight."
Walt sought a way out of the stagnation and decline that had come to characterize—and in many respects, still characterizes—U.S. cities. The solution: centralized land ownership and private government.
Hard to see how that 'solution' has anything to do with the problem it supposedly addresses. Rather it just happens to be the situation he had - a huge tract of empty land he owns, maybe a big debt or certainly the interest in issuing debt to finance development, with little/no interest in giving up control over the development, and the only demand upon the bigger govt is to 'keep building roads and leave us alone'. It's not really anything other than - here's an idea - a bedroom community suburb with hierarchical windy streets and cul-de-sacs, single-family-homes-with-garage, that will go bankrupt when it stops growing.
There are far better models to 'develop empty land into a city' (see pretty much everything in history). And if the decline of US cities (but not necessarily others) is to be reversed, then the solution probably should have some acknowledgement of why they declined - which ain't lack of central ownership or private government.
American cities were the envy of the world before People's Party communism and Prohibition Party prohibitionism linked arms to enact the 16th and 18th Amendments through spoiler vote clout. Mystical fascism and secular socialism have since combined to loot, rob and murder from behind a mantle of absolute immunity. Show me a blighted area and I'll show you looter altruism hard at work.
DeFascist and his pals on the right have been bullying the private sector for years. For example, laws barring private businesses from mandating a vaccine or wearing of a mask as a condition of employment. I don't want to wear a mask at work but if my employer mandates it, it's their way or the highway. The government has no place stepping in the middle of a private employer-employee relationship.
Haha, resistance to your dumb mask and Fauci Ouchie mandates resulted in them getting killed stone dead. The Army is even inviting soldiers they kicked out over it to get their records cleared up and to re-enlist, because they're so fucking desperate for bodies.
Get fucked, Covidian. If it hurts your side, it's automatically good.
Oh maybe it was just cutting CDC & FDA's pushy to mostly-mandated private employer-employee intervention. Most garbage the media spouts is so exaggerated you have to actually read what DeSantis did which generally comes out to practically a whole different story.
By "Free Trade" Republicans mean government goons kicking in doors, shooting dogs, children, civilians (especially if brown or long-haired) and confiscating homes, vehicles and bank accounts to make damn good and sure nobody consumes anything but beer, gin and cigarettes. By "Prosperity" they mean caudillo prisons, slums, huge churches and Hoovervilles. It's a specialized form of Revealed Newspeak.
I commend you for your brave stance against slavery, 200 years after other people resolved the issue in this country.
The mistake was to allow the Society for the Prevention of Vice (and for burning of books) to use Comstockism to enslave Northern women in 1873, the year of the Colfax massacre. Northern voters began tossing Republicans out the windows. Instead of repealing Comstock, Republicans opted for quashing the indictments and gelding the Reconstruction Amendments so ku-kluxers were freed after murdering 75 blacks in Grant County. The Klan responded with whoops of joy when prohibitionist Hayes lost the popular AND electoral college votes to Tilden.
We made the mistake of not completely annihilating the traitor Confederate vermin and their families the first time.
We won’t make that mistake again.
Who's "we"? Zoomer military members are complaining about doing fucking PT tests, for god's sake.
The only thing that would happen if you personally want to take it to that level is you and your family getting Rittenhouse'd.
KAR has all the qualifications to be an editor here.