Studies Keep Finding That Social Media Algorithms Don't Increase Polarization. Why Is the Press So Skeptical?
New research on Facebook before the 2020 election finds scant evidence to suggest algorithms are shifting our political views.

New research looking at Facebook in the run-up to the 2020 election finds scant evidence to suggest that social media algorithms are to blame for political polarization, extremism, or belief in misinformation. The findings are part of a project in which Meta opened its internal data to academic researchers. The results of this collaboration will be publicized in 16 papers, the first four of which were just published in the journals Science and Nature.
One of the studies found that switching users from an algorithmic feed to a reverse chronological feed—something suggested by many social media foes as the responsible thing to do—actually led to users seeing more political content and more potential misinformation. The change did lead to seeing less content "classified as uncivil or containing slur words" and more content "from moderate friends." But none of these shifts made a significant difference in terms of users' political knowledge, attitudes, or polarization levels.
"Algorithms are extremely influential in terms of…shaping their on-platform experience," researcher Joshua Tucker, co-director of the Center for Social Media and Politics at New York University, told The Washington Post. Despite this, "we find very little impact in changes to people's attitudes about politics and even people's self-reported participation around politics."
Another of the experiments involved limiting re-shared content in some users' feeds. Reshares—a measure of social media virility—"is a key feature of social platforms that could plausibly drive" political polarization and political knowledge, the researchers suggest. Users who saw no reshared content for three months did wind up having less news knowledge, as well as lower engagement with the platform and less exposure to "untrustworthy content." But it did not make a difference in political attitudes or polarization levels.
Nor did increasing users' exposure to ideologically diverse views—as another of the experiments did—wind up significantly shifting "affective polarization, ideological extremity, candidate evaluations and belief in false claims."
Taken together, the studies strike a strong blow against the "zombie bite" theory of algorithmic exposure, in which people are passive vessels easily infected by divisive content, fake news, and whatever else social media platforms throw at them.
They're the latest in a long line of papers and reports casting doubt on the now-conventional wisdom that social media platforms—and particularly their algorithms—are at fault for a range of modern political and cultural problems, from political polarization to extremism to misinformation and much more. (Reason highlighted a lot of this research in its January 2023 cover story, "In Defense of Algorithms.")
Yet despite a substantial body of research challenging such assumptions, a lot of the press remains credulous about claims of tech company culpability and villainy while reporting very skeptically on any evidence to the contrary. And this media bias is on full display in the coverage of the new Facebook and Instagram studies.
The Post's piece on them contains this in-article ad after the first paragraph: "Tech is not your friend. We are. Sign up for The Tech Friend newsletter."
It's an almost perfect distillation of the larger dynamic at play here, in which traditional media—having lost ample eyeballs and advertising dollars to social media—seems intent to cast tech platforms as untrustworthy, unscrupulous, and dangerous for democracy, in contrast to the honest, virtuous, and democracy-protecting members of the mainstream press.
The Post piece goes on to quote three people uninvolved with the Facebook studies who have qualms about it, including "Facebook whistleblower" Frances Haugen. "She argued that by the time the researchers evaluated the chronological approach during the fall of 2020, thousands of users already had joined mega groups that would have flooded their feeds with potentially problematic content," the Post reports.
This is, of course, a very different complaint than the one typically heard from Haugen and her ilk—that Facebook's algorithms deliberately push divisive and extreme content. Here Haugen shifts the goal posts, complaining about groups that people self-select into and the fact that Facebook showed them content from these groups at all.
And the Post also moves the goal posts, describing the study as being "conducted in a world in which, in many ways, the cat was already out of the bag. A three-month switch in how information is served on a social network occurred in the context of a long-standing change in how people share and find information." Tucker tells the Post: "This finding cannot tell us what the world would have been like if we hadn't had social media around for the last 10 to 15 years."
Of course, the big fear for years has been about bursts of election-time information—pushed by hostile foreign actors, U.S. political groups, etc.—and their potential ability to tilt political outcomes thanks to algorithmic amplification. These new studies squarely strike at such fears, while any "long-standing change" in information finding is, in this context, utterly irrelevant, as is some hypothetical world in which social media never existed. The only purpose statements like these seem designed to serve is to minimize the findings in question.
The coverage in Science—which published three of the new papers—is even weirder. The journal has packaged the studies in a special issue with the cover line "Wired to Split" and an introduction titled "Democracy Intercepted."
The cover features two groups of people—one dressed in red, one dressed in blue—sitting on opposite sides of the Meta logo, facing in opposite directions. Each member of each group is intently looking at a laptop or tablet or smartphone, with several members appearing outraged. The design seems to illustrate the exact opposite of what was actually found in the studies, as do the slogans and introductory text associated with the new studies.
"Can a business model that prioritizes 'engagement algorithms' pose a threat to democracy?" asks Science in the introduction. It goes on to state that "tech companies have a public responsibility to understand how design features of platforms may affect users and, ultimately, democracy. The time is now to motivate substantive changes and reforms." It teases the research in question—without once mentioning that the findings go against more hysterical interpretations. It's as if the whole package was designed with a preferred narrative in mind but no regard for the actual research at hand.
Because what the actual research found—as Talia Stroud, a lead researcher on the project and director of the Center for Media Engagement at the University of Texas at Austin puts it—is that experimenting with popular ideas to tweak algorithms in a supposedly socially responsible way simply "did not sway political attitudes."
Stroud is quoted in Nature, which does a better overall job of framing the research in a realistic way ("Tweaking Facebook feeds is no easy fix for polarization, studies find" is the headline of an article about it). But even Nature can't resist quotes that minimize the findings. "The science is nice, but the generalizability seems limited," Northwestern University political scientist James Druckman is quoted in Nature as saying. "This is just another data point in that discussion."
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Anything that studies "misinformation" is suspect from the start, since "misinformation" is just tomorrow's truth being called lies today.
Came in to say the same thing.
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Sometimes. A lot of the time it really is misinformation.
For example, there really are Russian bots on Twitter posting lies about Ukraine.
There are a lot of people in government and think tanks doing the same. Odd choice of selective criticism.
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Not really that odd considering Mike’s a fucking hypocrite.
He might just be really dumb.
As you stated, those are lies, not "misinformation".
“Lie” and “misinformation” are synonyms. One might not like the word “misinformation”, but it is part of the English language, and nobody has control of the English language.
You want to control it though, don’t you O’Brien?
“Lie” and “misinformation” are synonyms” No, they are not. And “misinformation ” has been “part of the English language” for about 2 years, apart from the intelligence community, and is generally defined as “anything that disagrees with the popular opinion.”
That comment was the equivalent of stomping your feet and holding your breath till you turn blue.
Ukrainian and American ones too. Wars generally involve propaganda campaigns. Worldwide connectivity provides for some interesting variations though.
"Why Is the Press So Skeptical?"
Gee, I dunno, could it be the social sciences' piss poor track record of opining over everything in sight just to get some of that sweet federal funding? Could it be the bias that encourages?
Could it be the outright lies told by Mr Science and all his fellow travelers?
Could it be all the misinformation peddled by social media, all the government attempts to cover up their meddling and censorship?
And "conspiracy" is a more urgent form of "misinformation", with more immediate social and political significance, and a target date for maintaining obfuscation.
Social ‘science’, and Nature and Science in particular, have been shown to be terribly biased and untrustworthy on political topics (see global warming and Covid). Why would anyone rely on them at all?
The #AttentionEconomy naturally maximizes fear and anger, since we humans are built to pay particular attention things that induce fear and anger. Any algorithm built to maximize attention will naturally increase fear and anger, or be beat by one that does it better.
They're measuring the wrong thing.
I’m sure Liz meant to write virality as opposed to virility ????
Edit: who knows, maybe she meant virile.
Talking about curated misinformation puts her into heat.
Define. Your. Terms. These “studies” are fucking meaningless without defining terms and establishing metrics. When facebook bans people and posts in a partisan political manner then it shouldn’t be surprising that people don’t see or get influenced by that content. The language here alone suggests a left-wing bias from the researchers. What positions and statements are they labeling as extreme? From which direction do they see more extremism? What extreme positions were most prominent? As a single example, Facebook was guilty of removing and limiting posts about Hunter Biden’s laptop. Polls have shown that seeing such information changed people’s opinions and would have changed the votes of some. I don’t give a fuck about the distinction between algorithmic and manual moderation as both have been used to drive content in the same direction. I mostly use facebook to search for local events (a feature that is glitched almost to the point of irrelevance) and to check up on friends and family. My feed is so inundated with ads and scattered content chronologically that I can’t see what I want. The ability to sort my feed chronologically is absent. Features to limit and eliminate certain types of content don’t work. I’ve personally dealt with inoffensive content resulting in bans and moderation. All of these things have been proven to be true. ENB and these researchers don’t seem to have any interest in considering anything outside their political bubble
Edit: this wasn't meant as a response to you
No, "virility" is correct in the sentence. Reshares are a measure of social media strength.
Things go viral on social media. Virility produces offspring.
"venality"
Any study using the word "misinformation" is not scientific in the slightest.
Quite interesting how they use terms signaling left-wing sensibilities. I truly am tired of language games.
I love how often the term is used by Soviet authorities in “Chernobyl “.
It was their "moment to shine".
Literally!
I remember when Science cared about science and not "The Science!!!"
The word “Science” has been used by frauds to sell snake oil to rubes for over a century.
The extreme polarization we're experiencing is precisely because social media does a GOOD job of exposing people to the views of others. Thirty years ago it would have been possible for a conservative Christian in Nebraska to be mostly unaware of the extreme economic, sexual, and social views of many people in the big coastal cities. He might have been unaware of suppression of speech on university campuses, the gory details of "transitioning", graphic "sex education" for little kids, anti-religious bigotry, and other Culture War outrages. Today, social media and what passes for "news" are constantly rubbing our noses in the views of others that to us are extreme and shocking. The extreme divergence of views was always there. We just were not so keenly aware of how deeply we disagreed. Familiarity has bred contempt.
He might have been unaware of suppression of speech on university campuses, the gory details of “transitioning”, graphic “sex education” for little kids, anti-religious bigotry, and other Culture War outrages.
Again, unary principle/both sides (in disagreement(?) with your initial premise), there’s considerable scientific (not Science!-riffic) evidence that the conservative Christian in Nebraska would be unaware of much of it because it would exist to a much lesser degree, if at all. Pretty much everyone acknowledges that the problem with trans people isn’t the one in 10K or 100K people who are born intersex or who legitimately suffer body integrity dysphoria, it’s with the popularization of upselling every last case of autogynophilia or even just meaningless ‘thinking out loud’ requiring a massive social shift in support of all the ‘sufferers’.
"Thirty years ago it would have been possible for a conservative Christian in Nebraska to be mostly unaware of the extreme economic, sexual, and social views of many people in the big coastal cities. "
That's not because of a lack of social media. It's that the conservative Christian of Nebraska is ignorant, uneducated and incurious. The people of the big coastal cities were well aware, without any help from social media, of the extreme views of the conservative Christian Nebraskans. How did they manage this feat? Reading and staying informed.
Define ignorant, uneducated, and incurious. Does it mean people who don't know all the current genders, do not hold advanced degrees in grievance studies, and are not interested in experimenting with remodeling their genitalia?
Oh, and as a test of superior knowledge, let's isolate a few dozen urban coasties on a farm and see how long they survive, especially without internet.
"Define ignorant, uneducated, and incurious. "
People who don't read or take an interest in the doings of others. Like the conservative Christian Nebraskans who rely on social media to spoon feed them with outrages from the coast.
"let’s isolate a few dozen urban coasties on a farm and see how long they survive, especially without internet."
Sounds good, and to make the test fair and objective, let's isolate a few Nebraskan rubes and send them to San Francisco's annual Felching Festival and see how they fare, with or without the Internet.
How many Christian farmers from Iowa do you know?
They live in his head.
Way to move the goal posts!
Jet fuel can't melt steel goal posts, right you inbred hicklib 9/11 Truther?
Also, holding you to the standard you set for others isn't called moving the goal posts, it's just called making you look like a stupid bitch. It's a trivially easy task since you are, in point of fact, a stupid bitch.
"since you are, in point of fact, a stupid bitch."
What happened to honest retard? That was almost nice of you.
I wasn’t moving goalposts I was asking you a simple question.
You moved the goalposts from Nebraska all the way to Iowa.
Well, since they’re likely armed, they’d kill all your pervert friends.
That wouldn't improve their felching skills.
I defer to your superior knowledge on the topic.
Yeah, those educated urbanites really care about what people not in their self-declared elite circles think and do.
As for fetching, it might seem very important to you, but most of us don't care.
"As for fetching"
You clearly need to brush up on your felching.
I’m sure you do enough for everyone.
The people of the big coastal cities generally seem to be unaware of where their food comes from and how it gets to their grocery store, or how the energy they use is produced and how it gets to their homes.
The idea that urbanites are a particularly well-informed demographic is a hubristic conceit.
"The idea that urbanites are a particularly well-informed demographic is a hubristic conceit."
I'm not saying they are particularly well informed. Only that they out do Nebraskan conservative Christians, admittedly a low bar.
On the other hand, they are less diseased than urbanites like you.
And as usual, you have the privilege of being utterly and completely wrong, blown the fuck out by the very science you pretend you to understand and support, despite spending a decade spreading utterly retarded 9/11 Truther talking points about jet fuel and steel beams.
Rural school districts in Nebraska are pretty good, much nicer and effective than some urban and suburban communities. Have you ever been?
"Have you ever been?"
It's clear to me nobody here has been. I beginning to doubt the place exists.
Backed into the corner his ignorance inevitably leads to, mtrueman resorts back to nonsense.
It's real, I've been there. And you're wrong about the people, ridiculously wrong. Now Missouri on the other hand . . .
Conservatives from Nebraska are my extended family. Before the Internet, they were aware of what was going on in the rest of the country.
I have found that farmers and ranchers are quite curious people, especially when it comes to new technology.
Back then they read a lot of newspapers and magazines, and watched the same TV shows as the rest of the country, including the big nationwide news programs like Walter Conkrite.
Rural Nebraskan teenagers were about five years behind the city kids in adopting long hair and smoking dope.
"Before the Internet, they were aware of what was going on in the rest of the country."
Take it up with Vernon Depner, who claims otherwise.
Or on the other hand you could try not being a lying faggot who completely misrepresents what somebody else said. You'd still be an ignorant hicklib and an irredeemably stupid piece of shit 9/11 Truther, but at least you'd be an honest retard.
"Or on the other hand you could try not being a lying faggot who completely misrepresents what somebody else said. "
You're asking an awful lot from me. Prepare to be disappointed. Keep reading in any event. Thanks.
Except that when academics who work at universities located in big coastal cities conducted scientific research into the topic, they predictably discovered that conservatives understand liberal viewpoints far better than liberals understand conservative viewpoints:
Since you're an inbred hicklib half-retarded self-loathing bumpkin faggot who spent 10 years unironically shilling 9/11 Truther conspiracy theories at Reason.com until you settled into your current shtick, maybe you could go see if one of your aspirational idols could explain the study to you in terms simple enough that you might be ablet o comprehend it. Failing that, I'll bet you could just ask your Nebraskan Christian neighbor.
” that conservatives understand liberal viewpoints far better than liberals understand conservative viewpoints:”
Hardly surprising. Who can expect anyone with any sense from a decent part of the country to understand the ‘viewpoints’ of godbothering senile simpletons?
I wrote AWARE. Understanding is a bridge too far.
I wasn’t around when mtrueman was spouting 9/11 truther shit, but it doesn’t surprise me. I also wouldn’t be surprised if he never believed it.
I find the official narrative widely accepted here implausible. Two jets knock down three towers? Something fishy is going on.
The way you characterize and generalize about "flyover country" ironically completely disproves your contention that coastal urbanites have a more complete view of the rural people than rural people have of them.
It's not just visibility of the other extreme. The polar extremes are also better able to recruit new adherents, and to provide them arguments and evidence to strengthen their conviction that their side is right and the other side is evil. And anyone who questions the catechism is ostracized on Twitter until they conform or leave.
Social media does not *cause* polarization but it does *reinforce* it. People enter with their biases and read, subscribe to, and "friend", who or what reinforces those biases. There are fewer and fewer people willing to read or even entertain opposing viewpoints.
Wrong. The polarization is CAUSED BY people being more aware of opposing viewpoints.
This is a false dichotomy which, again, runs counter to fundamental information theory and is controverted by objective evidence. You may say that the majority of the polarization is caused by amplification, but you can't say it's caused exclusively by amplification. There are people who openly admit to doing things to be "internet famous" and "social media influencers" objectively indicating that the motivating cause of their action is social media. Even if you disagree, Social Media caused that disagreement.
Post the link to the Vox article where you read that, shreek. Lmfao.
As-if it isn't already well known that it was the government all along. Who unsurprisingly wants media algorithms to be threatening so ...
1) (the government) can CONTROL / regulate it even more.
2) Project any blame and attention of their Nazi-Media onto something else.
As-if political party prosecution wasn't already established by the recent Trump witch-hunting tactics and Obama's IRS political partisan games. The Nazi-Empire (National Socialists) has grown beyond just controlling all resources into controlling the press and prosecuting political opponents for nothing at all except party affiliation. The Supreme Court which REQUIRED the Nazi-Empire party members to stop this is the USA's only protection from a Nazi-Riddled national take over. Either voters are so F'En stupid they keep electing Nazi-Hitler wannabe politicians or the Nazi-Empire is also doing voter fraud like nobodies business.
I'm sure there will be a Reason article on this in two to three years.
Facebook censored Americans due to White House pressure
"In April 2021, a Facebook employee circulated an email for Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg and COO Sheryl Sandberg, writing: “We are facing continued pressure from external stakeholders, including the [Biden] White House” to remove posts.
In another April 2021 email, Nick Clegg, Facebook’s president for global affairs, informed his team at Facebook that Andy Slavitt, a Senior Advisor to President Biden, was “outraged . . . that [Facebook] did not remove” a particular post.
What did the Biden White House want removed? A meme...
When Clegg “countered that removing content like that would represent a significant incursion into traditional boundaries of free expression in the US,” Slavitt disregarded the warning and the First Amendment.
What happened next? Facebook panicked.
In another April 2021 email, Brian Rice, Facebook’s VP of public policy, raised the concern that Slavitt's challenge felt “very much like a crossroads for us with the [Biden] White House in these early days.”
But Facebook wanted to repair its relationship with the White House to avoid adverse action:
“Given what is at stake here, it would also be a good idea if we could regroup and take stock of where we are in our relations with the [White House], and our internal methods too.”
This wasn’t the first time that the Biden White House was angry that Facebook didn’t censor more.
According to these documents, the Biden White House demanded to know why Facebook had not censored a video from Tucker Carlson. So, Facebook prepped its response. To appease the Biden White House, talking points were drafted for Clegg.
Facebook was ready to tell the White House that it had demoted a video posted by Tucker Carlson by 50% in response to the White House’s demands, even though the post didn’t violate any policies.
Public pressure mounted as well. In July 2021, President Biden publicly denounced Facebook and other social media platforms, claiming they were “killing people” by not censoring alleged “misinformation.”
On August 2, 2021, Facebook admitted it was going to change its policies because of pressure from the Biden White House.
“[Facebook’s] Leadership asked Misinfo Policy . . . to brainstorm some additional policy levers we can pull to be more aggressive against . . . misinformation. This is stemming from the continued criticism of our approach from the [Biden] administration.”
But it wasn't just the White House. Facebook also changed its policies in direct response to pressure from Biden's Surgeon General, censoring members of the “disinformation dozen.”
Yes, but at least there were no more mean tweets.
Mark Zuckerberg himself -- knowing that all of this evidence was to be imminently released -- complained about the constant stream of censorship pressure from the Biden WH, noting that FB was forced to censor not only debatable claims but ones that *turned out to be true*:
"According to these documents, the Biden White House demanded to know why Facebook had not censored a video from Tucker Carlson. So, Facebook prepped its response. To appease the Biden White House, talking points were drafted for Clegg.
Facebook was ready to tell the White House that it had demoted a video posted by Tucker Carlson by 50% in response to the White House’s demands, even though the post didn’t violate any policies."
I wonder if Carlson can sue?
Six banks filed a mere total of 170 suspicious activity reports on the Biden family crime syndicate:
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/rebeccadowns/2023/07/28/suspicious-bank-reports-n2626334
It is obviously taking WAY too long, but it looks like we may finally be slowly shambling our way towards the impeachments that we all know are completely 100% justified.
P.S.: When did lipstick lesbian start working weekends? I wonder if this means staff cuts are taking place.
Imagine if Trump had six banks file 170 suspicious activity reports on him?
Well, they made up out of nothing a tie to Alfa Bank.
With those accounts known to be false accounts set up at set Bank accounts for 10 years to try to hide they are just pass through. Literal money laundering.
That would be at least 6 separate indictments. Maybe 170. Or even 1,020 indictments.
Meh. They have had Trump on double-secret felony for Orange Man Bad since they started to panic in 2016.
Thanks for sharing the information. Get Notes, Model Papers, and admission-related info on Topper Studies.
I think I just found Sqrlsy's spirit animal:
Abortion activist who escorts women to clinics to get abortions holds a sign with a recipe including dead fetuses.
I once performed a ceremonial-religious abortion on the effigy of “Ann Coulter Rash Limbaugh”. She was pregnant with a baby Hitler, so it was all for the best. Full details, including photos, are provided here: http://www.churchofsqrls.com/sonograms/ ... No joke! Site's photo of baby Hitler here: http://www.churchofsqrls.com/sonograms/index_files/image010.jpg
Baby Hitlers and baby Marxist-Authoritarian Mammary-Necrophilia-Fuhrers, if (ass usual) they stubbornly cling to being EVIL power pigs, would have been better off aborted! Best of all would be that they should develop humility, and reform themselves, of course. Chances of THAT happening are VERY close to zero, it seems!
Yeah we get it, you think dead babies are funny.
Disgusting freak.
Yeah we get it, you think KILLED-DEAD PERSONAL FREEDOMS AND ZERO CONTROL OF OUR OWN BODIES are both funny.
Disgustingly freakish authoritarian!
I don’t though. You just make up shit, I’m commenting on what you just said.
So then you do NOT think authoritarianism is FUNNY? It makes you cum in yer twat instead? Is THAT it?
Did I make up the below quote from YOUR fave authoritarian, Der Dear Leader TrumpfenFuhrer?
“The Democrats are trying to rig this election because that’s the only way they’re going to win,” he said.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/24/politics/trump-election-warnings-leaving-office/index.html
A list of the times Trump has said he won’t accept the election results or leave office if he loses.
Essential heart and core of the LIE by Trump: “ANY election results not confirming MEEE as Your Emperor, MUST be fraudulent!”
September 13 rally: “The Democrats are trying to rig this election because that’s the only way they’re going to win,” he said.
Trump’s constant re-telling and supporting the Big Lie (any election not electing Trump is “stolen”) set up the environment for this (insurrection riot) to happen. He shares the blame. Boys will be boys? Insurrectionists will be insurrectionists, trumpanzees gone apeshit will be trumpanzees gone apeshit, so let’s forgive and forget? Poor Trump was misunderstood? Does that sound good and right and true?
It really should immediately make us think of Krystallnacht. Hitler and the NAZIs set up for this by constantly blaming Jews for all things bad. Jew-haters will be Jew-haters, so let’s forgive and forget? Poor Hitler was misunderstood? Does that sound good and right and true?
Hey, SQRLSY, does this super-sacred body autonomy extend to every person for every issue? Like if I decide I would rather not subject myself to 8 hours of slavery every day to get a paycheck, can I demand free stuff instead?
Don’t argue with homeless people.
Muted the spastic asshole some years ago; have yet to read a comment from those who haven’t suggesting it was a bad idea. He really needs to fuck off and die to improve the intelligence of humanity. Like the ignoramus trueman, his mommy seems to have claimed the ignorant piece of shit was ‘intelligent’. Both mommies weren’t intelligent, hadn’t standing to make such claims and were lying.
Hey Planet-X-Based Lizard-People's Septic Tank (which stank and sank), does your Trump Worshit include a Perpetual One-Party Trumptatorshit, Now and Forever? Can you name me just ONE, one-party state, which has brought about long-term peace and prosperity?
Yeah sarcasmic, the only way to prevent Trump from taking over the government and setting up a one-party state is to violate all of his civil rights using unelected spy agencies with no oversight to bring secret charges in secret courts so that Biden can run unopposed. If only you weren't such a stupid drunken piece of shit, you might become paranoid about things that are actually happening.
Hi, Tulpa! How was your weekend?
PS, enslaving other people by stealing the products of their labor has a certain resemblance to enslaving women by turning them into womb-slaves; wouldn't an honest person agree?
You mean like when you decided that everyone from the thoracic surgeon to the Mexican chamber maid at the hospital was obligated to take an experimental drug that does not treat the symptoms or stop the spread of COVID-19 when your imaginary wife was NEARLY KILLED BY RECKLESS COVID DENIERS during those 3 years you spent shilling chicken little FUD and then has never been mentioned by you since, sarcasmic? Oh wait, you said an honest person. My mistake.
He's having a seizure
People don't understand what seizures look like because of movies.
White Mike: "Nobody is showing your kids porn"
This is the type of garbage that kids in schools have to deal with now. Porn books, sex assignments, chest binder handouts, and gender identity lessons.
It's not happening, it's not what you think, and it's good for you.
“It’s not happening, and you deserve it.”
Aren't the 'Press' supposed to be 'skeptical', generally speaking?
The modern press are VERY skeptical, especially about the human value and legal recognition of anyone they perceive as not in their tribe. And any speech that dares to challenge their party doctrine.
Yes, the press is SUPPOSED to be skeptical, but not propagandists.
Trump Nazi Cult boos GOP presidential candidate for telling the truth about their idol.
GOP presidential candidate, Trump critic Will Hurd booed off stage at Iowa event
Hurd declared Trump was running for president to 'stay out of prison'
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gop-presidential-candidate-trump-critic-will-hurd-booed-off-stage-iowa-event
It's so funny watching you compulsively project by insist Trump was a [Na]tional So[zi]alist when the left openly admits to being the party of socialists at the national level and Trump openly admits to never allowing the USA to be a socialist nation.
Carry on lying deceitful FOS POS.
Nazis were fascists, you moron.
That's why they put 'socialist' right in the name. Early attempt at gaslighting from your forbearers.
You’re really arguing about their (meaningless) name rather than their actual actions?
“Republicans” are all about the republic, and “Democrats” are all about democracy, right?
Republic of North Korea are Republicans. It says so right in the name.
Kim Jong Trump is their bad-hair Orange Man. They send love letters to each other.
What, is North Korea far right now too?
The USA is a *CONSTITUTIONAL* Republic.
Constitution is worship word, you may not speak it.
“Republicans” are all about the republic, and “Democrats” are all about democracy, right?
Are you saying they're not?
Interesting.
Yeah, Republicans tend to be more about states setting their own rules, (a federated republic of states) and Democrats tend to be more about a central nationwide authority loosely based on majority diktat. (democracy)
What is your question?
Are those those two parties primary characteristics? (Hint: No. Not even close.)
Maybe we could call them the KindaLeansTowardStatesRights Party and the KindaLeansTowardCentralGovernment Party.
If we named them by their actual primary characteristics they would be the MeanSpiritedPopulistParty and the VoteBuyingParty.
Why buy votes when you can just steal them?
Who would call himself a socialist who was not one?
Some of the actual 25 bullet points of the Nazi Party platform:
"7. We demand that the State shall make it its primary duty to provide a livelihood for its citizens. If it should prove impossible to feed the entire population, foreign nationals (non-citizens) must be deported from the Reich.
10. It must be the first duty of every citizen to perform physical or mental work. The activities of the individual must not clash with the general interest, but must proceed within the framework of the community and be for the general good.
We demand therefore:
11. The abolition of incomes unearned by work.
The breaking of the slavery of interest
12. In view of the enormous sacrifices of life and property demanded of a nation by any war, personal enrichment from war must be regarded as a crime against the nation. We demand therefore the ruthless confiscation of all war profits.
13. We demand the nationalization of all businesses which have been formed into corporations (trusts).
14. We demand profit-sharing in large industrial enterprises.
15. We demand the extensive development of insurance for old age.
16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a healthy middle class, the immediate communalizing of big department stores, and their lease at a cheap rate to small traders, and that the utmost consideration shall be shown to all small traders in the placing of State and municipal orders.
17. We demand a land reform suitable to our national requirements, the passing of a law for the expropriation of land for communal purposes without compensation; the abolition of ground rent, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.
18. We demand the ruthless prosecution of those whose activities are injurious to the common interest. Common criminals, usurers, profiteers, etc., must be punished with death, whatever their creed or race.
21. The State must ensure that the nation’s health standards are raised by protecting mothers and infants, by prohibiting child labor, by promoting physical strength through legislation providing for compulsory gymnastics and sports, and by the extensive support of clubs engaged in the physical training of youth.
23. We demand legal warfare on deliberate political mendacity and its dissemination in the press.
25. To put the whole of this program into effect, we demand the creation of a strong central state power for the Reich; the unconditional authority of the political central Parliament over the entire Reich and its organizations; and the formation of Corporations based on estate and occupation for the purpose of carrying out the general legislation passed by the Reich in the various German states.
The leaders of the Party promise to work ruthlessly—if need be to sacrifice their very lives—to translate this program into action."
Not exactly the opposite of socialism.
“Not exactly the opposite of socialism.”
Nope, and not exactly the full socialist agenda. They were also the epitome of fascist.
Enough of the socialist agenda to make it a flavor of socialism.
Sure. The Nazis were still quite clearly fascists.
And the dispute here being the assertion that there is a deep philosophical divide between fascism and socialism. There is not.
Wasn’t the dispute here that Minadin tried to claim that Nazis were socialists, not fascists, because they had the word “socialist” in their name?
As if politicians and fanatical movements are know for great truth in labeling.
Brown Fascism, red fascism, what’s the real difference?
No, Episiarch/Bo Cara Esq. That's your mischaracterization of what was said after your bosom buddy shreek, whose original Sarah Palin's Buttplug account was banned from Reason.com for posting dark web links to hardcore child pornography, interjected that Nazis couldn't be socialists because they were fascists. See, the problem is you were so busy rushing to the defense of the pedophile who posted dark web links to hardcore child pornography that you got cause and effect reversed.
They identified as socialist in their speeches, actions, name and platform.
Your corporatist fascism is a form of socialism, Shrike.
The world identifies NAZI as Aryan Supremacist.
You will never MAGA-wash your similarities to the Third Reich. Make America (err, Germany) Great Again.
The cultish love of The Fuhrer/Orange Man is identical.
You mean leftists falsley assign their bad acts to others.
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
All we need to know about you is that you posted dark web links to underage porn!
Not true. He is also an Act Blue retard.
"The world identifies NAZI as Aryan Supremacist."
No. You and your authoritarian corporatist establishment boos are distilling down the meaning to redirect attention from your own overt fascism.
Speaking of Aryan Supremacists, wasn't this you just the other day?
SPB2, keeping the Georgia KKK stronk.
"The cultish love of The Fuhrer/Orange Man is identical."
https://www.salon.com/2021/04/11/trumps-big-lie-and-hitlers-is-this-how-americas-slide-into-totalitarianism-begins/
Trump’s Big Lie and Hitler’s: Is this how America’s slide into totalitarianism begins?
The above is mostly strictly factual, with very little editorializing. When I post it, the FACTS never get refuted… I only get called names. But what do you expect from morally, ethically, spiritually, and intellectually bankrupt Trumpturds?
Totalitarians want to turn GOP into GOD (Grand Old Dicktatorshit).
Oh good, an
ActBlue memoSalon article.And it's from 2021 and almost everything it claims has since been proven false. But that doesn't matter, does it Shillsy?
"...everything it claims has since been proven false."
Appeal to AUTHORITY, authority being THE Supreme Authoritarian, AKA Marxist Mammary-Necrophilia-Fuhrer Herself!
Meanwhile, EVERYTHING ASSerted by Marxist-Authoritarian Mammary-Necrophilia-Fuhrer Herself has proven false... Because I say so!
Observing that everything your article claimed turned out to be a lie isn't an Appeal to Authority, you daft twat.
Has Sarcasmic been giving you rhetoric lessons again?
Your citations fell off! The cited article saying (just for ONE example) that one of Hitler's foremost Big Lies was that "Germany never lost WW I on the battlefield; Germany was STABBED IN THE BACK by Jewish bankers!"... This has now been shown to be a LIE (about this Big Lie; a double negative then means, in the so-called "mind" of Mammary-Fuhrer...), Ass You Say, Oh So Perfectly... So then the LATEST data says (according to YOU) that it was TRUE that Germany was STABBED IN THE BACK by Jewish bankers!!!!
THIS, then, is why I say "citation please", to YOU, Oh Perfect Hate-Filled LYING pro-Hitler fascist!!!
You were here when sarcasmic outed this sock by posting his Sqrsly copypasta from his main handle. Twice. Why do you still pretend as if that never happened?
Why don't you finish off another handle of plastic jug Walmart swill and take another crack at that one sarcasmic. It doesn't even make drunk-sense.
"Oh good, an ActBlue memo Salon article."
Weren't you quoting extensively from a Joseph Goebbels speech from the 1930s the other day?
Didn't you spend around 10 years posting idiotic 9/11 Truther shit from Loose Change?
"Didn’t you spend around 10 years posting idiotic 9/11 Truther shit from Loose Change?"
I await your compelling proof.
Yeah; A De-Regulation committee for totalitarians...
Good grief UR stupid.
Hitler's De-Regulation committee deregulated the killing of Jews, gays, gypsies, cripples, and the mentally ill. Trump's De-Regulation committee deregulated putting the illegal sub-human babies in wire cages, separating them from their MomDads, and losing track of who belongs to who. Oh, and, let's not forget, BOTH Trump and Hitler did their worst to deregulate the process of turning their nations into one-party states!
Lie much? Not a single thing you stated is even remotely true except maybe ILLEGAL invading law breakers being incarcerated. Heaven-forbid. /s
You were banned for posting links to kiddie porn.
You were banned for posting links to necrophilia porn.
At least you've dispensed with pretending like shreek never got banned for posting dark web links to hardcore child pornography, saracasmic. That's progress I guess. Making up retarded lies about R Mac doesn't change the fact that there is verifiable proof from web archive snapshots that your butt buddy posted dark web links to hardcore child pornography on a Reason.com article and got the entire page scrubbed from the site.
The childish world identifies NAZI as feelz bad, and thus brainlessly applies the label to anything or anyone they don't like. And you seem to support the woke language concept of infinitely variable definitions for words.
The world NAZI is a *DIRECT* synonym for [Na]tional So[zi]alism...
As-if I haven't made that utterly clear for the last year.
https://www.britannica.com/event/Nazism
"Nazism, also spelled Naziism, in full National Socialism".
now define fascist and explain how it doesnt currently apply to the democrat party platform and their presidential standard bearers government.
Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,[1][2][3] characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.[2][3]
Wikipedia sources (2,3)
2 Encyclopedia Britannica Fascism: "extreme militaristic nationalism, contempt for electoral democracy and political and cultural liberalism, a belief in natural social hierarchy and the rule of elites, and the desire to create a Volksgemeinschaft (German: "people's community"), in which individual interests would be subordinated to the good of the nation"
3 "fascism". Merriam-Webster Online. Archived from the original on 22 August 2017. Retrieved 22 August 2017.
Funny you use a captured source but ignore the primary sources from the NAZI party above.
Need links showing Wikipedia bias? It is well known. Then again you think Media Matters is non partisan and Schiff is truthful.
If you want actual facts regarding “National Socialism”, read Tooze’ “Wages of Destruction” and Pipes’ “The Russian Revolution”.
The parallels and schedule for the take-over of the entire economy read almost like Hitler had studied how the commies took over the economy and used it as a blue-print.
Of course, the lying and ignorant piece of shit turd much prefers Wiki, since it is so well researched and not at all biased; almost as good as Parade Magazine!
Found the retard pedo.
Good job at outing yourself.
Did you know that Hitler was a vegan, failed art student, banned smoking and guns? Which side does that sound like to you? Far right?
And you are calling someone else a retard in that comment. Amazing.
You of all people calling out Minadin for that is even more amazing.
Ridiculous clucking turducken.
You called?
Hey, got any free-range, gluten-free, fair trade, social justice tofurkey?
Hey, got any free-range, gluten-free, fair trade, social justice tofurkey?
Let me get the boys in the lab to cook one up for you.
Seriously?
Seriously:
https://reason.com/2023/07/29/studies-keep-finding-that-social-media-algorithms-dont-increase-polarization-why-is-the-media-so-skeptical/?comments=true#comment-10175593
OK, turducken.
Let’s see. Wasn’t he also a war veteran, had a penchant for military uniforms, really liked to kill people, and other qualities you omitted?
So please defend shrikes assertion that Hitler was alt right despite his written and spoken and policy support for Socialism.
A socialist would have fed Jews - not killed them.
turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit an ignorant asshole and a pederast besides.
Like Stalin?
How many people have died under socialism shrike? Famine, killing fields, etc?
You could honestly be one of the dumbest fuckers here.
Shrike’s never heard of the Holodomor. Ignorant pedophile.
What did Stalin feed his Jewish doctors after he sent them to Siberia?
“A socialist would have fed Jews – not killed them.” Please educate yourself of history.
Their failing socialist economy couldn’t feed the massive amount of immigrating Jews and everyone else so they marked them the ‘icky’ ones and killed them to preserve their socialist zero-sum resources.
…because that’s what socialism leads too. ( Gov-Guns don’t make sh*t! )
And when that becomes the reality of it; the only way to "feed" anyone is to conquer more and consume. The very reason *ALL* communist and socialist nations have resorted to conquering other nations. Too F'En stupid to realize GUNS don't make sh*t!
The entire political spectrum exists between International Socialism and National Socialism. And International Socialists are on the left, so National Socialists are obviously on the right.
Left and right of what?
International and national socialism are Siamese twins.
Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,[1][2][3] characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.[2][3]
Sounds exactly like you and the Democrats to me.
dictatorial leader ✓
centralized autocracy ✓
militarism ✓
forcible suppression of opposition ✓
belief in a natural social hierarchy ✓
subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation ✓
strong regimentation of society and the economy ✓
And since you want to go with Wikipedia, let's look at the Wikipedia definition of far right...
"Historically, "far-right politics" has been used to describe the experiences of fascism, Nazism, and Falangism."
Looks like your definition of "far right" is fascism, and your definition of fascism is far-right, and since the definition of fascism matches the Democrats and your racist, corporatist beliefs, I guess that means you're far-right too, Pluggo.
"dictatorial leader"
Biden is your idea of a dictatorial leader? He's always struck me as a corporate stooge doing what his paymasters tell him. Hitler is probably the best example of a dictator. He did whatever he wanted.
You’re not aware of the things Biden has been doing that aren’t within the authority of the executive branch?
Biden may be a puppet but his administration is easily the most dictatorial administration America has ever seen. Unprecedented corruption and political persecution, and a near total abandonment of constitutional principles.
Much of a muchness is how I see it. When you've been around the block a few times, you'll find fewer and fewer surprises in the affairs of men. One thing that I was pleasantly surprised at with Biden, he withdrew the troops from Afghanistan, something his predecessors never managed even though they had indicated a desire to do so and it was clear the war was lost and unwinnable. If a dictatorial leader can veto the military brass and others who profit from war making, maybe that's to Biden's credit. I suspect he may negotiate an end to the fighting in Ukraine with Russia before the election. The war there seems to have reached a point where both sides could benefit more by ending it than continuing it. We shall see.
“I suspect he may negotiate an end to the fighting…..”
Lol. No fucking way you really “suspect” this. Not a chance.
What’s he gonna do, give both of em the corn pop treatment?
"Not a chance."
I disagree. I think there is a chance. At this point, there doesn't seem to be benefit for either of the combatants to continue the fighting, and an end to the conflict would reflect well on a president or dictator seeking re-election.
"What’s he gonna do?"
Dictate?
The Biden administration wanted the Ukrainian war, and has done everything in their power to fuck up any peace agreement.
When the Ukraine and Russia arranged to sit down to a negotiation, the US and UK rushed Johnson to Ukraine and promised Zelenskyy money and weapons to fight.
When the African states tried to arrange peace negotiations between Ukraine and Russia, the Biden administration threatened to pull aid from all the participants.
There's no way the American establishment is going to give up its money laundering factory like that.
It does seem like both sides in the war are exhausted and it is at a stalemate, but a deal would have to be led by someone more neutral, like Israel.
"There’s no way the American establishment is going to give up its money laundering factory like that."
We shall see. I would not be surprised if Biden is up to something.
https://news.yahoo.com/cia-director-called-kremlin-assure-232337793.html
Reminder: this is the keen analysis of somebody who spent 10 years shilling Reason.com with the retarded "jet fuel can't melt steel beams" Loose Change "science"
"Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,[1][2][3] characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.[2][3]"
So how is this substantially different from a far-left, authoritarian, ultraglobalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of select races, and strong regimentation of society and the economy?
Leftists tend to internationalism. Marx had the words ‘workers of the world unite’ carved on his tombstone. Leftists also emphasize public property and collective efforts. The construction of the Moscow subway system vs the autobahns of the Nazis. Hitler’s biggest contribution to Berlin’s U-bahn was to see to it that Nazi flags were displayed in all the stations. Also the concerns of women and colonized people have been leftist. Another difference is the left's looking to the future (progessive) vs the right's looking to the past (reactionary) for inspiration.
A few minutes of conversation with someone about these issues should be enough to decide whether the person is of the left or right.
There was very little difference between national and international socialism.
They both wanted to transform society.
C'mon, man, everyone knows the Nazis were all about the restoration of the French Monarchy, and therefore, "extreme right wing".
Actually, this is basically what I hate about the whole "left / right" spectrum. "Left", in the original sense, did actually have an economic component to it. "Right" did not, particularly. And "right" at this point basically is used by people on both the left and the right to mean "anything that isn't the left".
A one dimensional scale is useless, and the two axis Nolan Chart is barely an improvement. But any scale that puts near-anarchist American Libertarians on the same "wing" of things as the Nazis is just fucking retarded.
Hyperbolic leftists specialize in retarded.
"There was very little difference between national and international socialism."
I was asked what the differences were, not how big they were. That depends on how much skin in game you have. Even small differences have big consequences if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time. Eighty million died in WWII, half a million in the civil war between the states. That's a big deal. Some antifa militant nailing a neo nazi with a milkshake? Not so much.
“I was asked what the differences were, not how big they were. That depends on how much skin in game you have. Even small differences have big consequences if you’re in the wrong place at the wrong time. Eighty million died in WWII, half a million in the civil war between the states. That’s a big deal. Some antifa militant nailing a neo nazi with a milkshake? Not so much.”
We see here where the ignoramus again proves: mtrueman|8.30.17 @ 1:42PM|# “Spouting nonsense is an end in itself.” Fuck off and die, asshole.
BTW, see Tooze and Pipes; you are full of shit and clearly an ignoramus.
“….the lefts looking to the future (progressive)”
Lol. Stop man. Just stop. You can’t be serious.
Reparations, bitch. Haha.
I can be serious. Progress means moving forward. Marx (a leftist) had a fancy phrase meaning much the same thing: historical materialism. Watch out for those milkshakes. (Not so serious.)
Incidentally, and seriously, a haha is a shallow ditch surrounding a stately home to prevent grazing animals from getting to close to the lawns around the house.
Historical materialism was backward looking and constructed all of history through the lens of class as a social construct, but then you unironically thought Loose Change was a compelling proof that the twin towers were brought down by demolition charges, so counting on you to comprehend anything you read on wikipedia is a fool's errand.
"Historical materialism was backward looking and constructed all of history through the lens of class as a social construct,"
Historical materialism is the idea that history is something material that proceeds along an inevitable path to a future of communism.
"Loose Change was a compelling proof"
Good luck in finding compelling proof about that 9/11 thing. Let me know when you find it.
Now that Republicans want to dictate what Google, Facebook and the media in general prints - AND how Blackrock, State St, and Vanguard invest you have gone full fascist.
Not genocidal fascist. Just ordinary fascist lite.
Democrats do have their Marxist problem though (Bernie Sanders is a part time Democrat).
You mean what the democrats have been doing for a decade? Miss the facebook emails yesterday shrike?
Blackrock, State St, and Vanguard are all corporatist entities. The literal definition of fascism.
Just like you.
Another characteristic of fascism is a romantic notion of a purer, greater past being ruined by liberal democracy and immigration.
MAGA and the Third Reich are perfect examples.
I love how freely you display utter ignorance. Lol. You do more harm to the left and their notions than anyone else here.
"a romantic notion of a purer, greater past being ruined"
You mean like with global warming?
"Nazis were fascists, you moron."
The TDS-addled lying pile of lefty shit assumes that means something to those of us educated in the matter, but it's no surprise: turd lies. It's what turd does.
turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a TDS-addled lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
HUNTER BIDEN FAKE BRIBERY SCANDAL UPDATE!
Democrats claim the GOP is withholding evidence contradicting claims in Hunter Biden probe
.
“This failure to release a transcript is the latest in your troubling pattern of concealing key evidence in order to advance a false and distorted narrative about your ‘investigation of Joe Biden’ that has not only failed to develop any evidence of wrongdoing by President Biden but has, in fact, uncovered substantial evidence to the contrary,” Raskin wrote in the letter, which was obtained by The Associated Press.
AP
"Sham investigation rife with pattern earmarks of GOP ratfucking" according to key team member.
Funny seeing Raskin bitching about not receiving a full listing of evidence. There is no 1/6 Commission if they released all of the info.
What a ratfucking moron. Probably a pedo, given how much "I Hate Boaf Sidez" PDB loves him.
All-caps shouting doesn’t make it true, Shrike.
The piled-up evidence from everything from emails and FBI documents to bank records is harder than diamonds.
Your man is a crook.
Also, where's your link? Are you scared of showing it? I wonder why?
I remember Mike complaining about all caps just the other day yet never criticizes his team mate shrike.
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a TDS-addled lying pile of lefty shit.
Needs more penis.
Top Republican: We don’t talk about Hunter Biden back at home
“I think when we get home, the focus is the economy, the border, crime,” the chair of the National Republican Congressional Committee said.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/07/27/republican-hunter-biden-focus-00108406
They know it is a sham. The media knows. Whitewater. Benghazi. Obama tan suit.
All bullshit.
turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
All we need to know about you is that you posted dark web links to underage porn!
Look, you lying dipshit.
You have real scandals to scream about.
The Biden Dog bite scandal.
The Biden neglected grand-child scandal.
The Hunter Biden gun and IRS scandal.
Hunter Dick-Pics.
Get busy, idiot!
Why do you claim to not be a Democrat defending pederast again?
It is baffling.
Does he REALLY want to discuss crime, inflation, et al?
I mean, he is free to do so, but he does not want to make his boo Joe look bad.
Any time. Crime seems to be worsening although statistics don't back it up. I'm not a Trumpist "slam their head in the door" cop-lover though.
Inflation was transitory as it turns out. A world issue. Down to 3% now. 30 year rates have normalized.
Nothing the House GOP can do about either. Dems are inept too.
3.8% is down to 3%? What was it under Trump again? And don't even notice PPI is up again.
Hmm, gas prices here are heading up above $4.00 again. Food costs have not gone down. Wages not going up, either.
Crime is horrible in blue states. The only places where it's bad in red states are in the blue-run cities.
turd lies, turd can do no other; turd lies.
Lol. So you’re not sure if crime is up? Need to see some stats, really?
Let us know when you figure out that what doesn’t get reported or investigated doesn’t show up in stats.
Why do you progs pretend not to know so many things? I hope your fainting couch is near when you see all the video of retail theft out there. So many people just trying to put bread on the table. Haha.
I've always said I am a liberal. Like Hayek.
In his essay “Why I’m Not a Conservative,” F.A. Hayek makes several cases against conservatism, with the overall goal of differentiating conservatism from libertarianism (or liberalism – which I will be using henceforth).
.
Conservatives are defined as being resistant to change
Liberals/libertarians aren’t against change, just change in the direction of illiberalism
Conservatives are unprincipled, and it shows in their practices of compromising in hopes of hindering change, using state power to enforce their goals, and their collectivist nationalism
The term “liberal” has become misunderstood in American politics, where it historically has been associated with the ideas that we would now normally associate with libertarianism.
Liberals and conservatives differ greatly, and liberals should rely on persuading progressives due to their open-mindedness and willingness to change
https://studentsforliberty.org/blog/why-hayek-wasnt-a-conservative/
You’re no more a liberal than Pol Pot, your posting history proves that.
If conservatives really were about using state power to enforce goals and collectivist nationalism, then you and the Democrats are conservatives.
I love how you post one 60 year old article by him constantly without realizing it defines the democrats you currently defend more so. You know nothing else about him but the one article. Lol.
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
"I’ve always said I am a liberal. Like Hayek."
turd lies. turd *always* lies. turd is too stupid to understand what the words turd uses means. turd lies since turd is too stupid to understand that turd lies.
Hayek is referring to Eurpopean conservatives. American conservatives, he idenitifies as conserving the liberal tradition, which the 20th Century technocratic Left is determined to overthrow.
This sentence is important:
Conservatives are unprincipled, and it shows in their practices of compromising in hopes of hindering change, using state power to enforce their goals, and their collectivist nationalism
!00% correct.
There's an article about the administration pressing Facebook to censor posts in this very thread, and yet you're pretending that stanza is unrelated to you.
That is literally the DNC platform dumdum.
Hayek then asserts that conservatives, with the goal of hindering change, are more than welcome to use state powers to achieve such aims. Conservatives are hardly different from progressives in the sense that arbitrary power is acceptable as long as the power achieves the goals that conservatives desire. “Like the socialist,” he writes, “[the conservative] regards himself as entitled to force the value he holds on other people.” Due to this fact, conservatives lack principle, whereas liberalism is an ideology built on principles.
Students for Liberty.
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a TDS-addled lying pile of lefty shit and an ignoramus.
Still the DNC platform. By your own definitions today, you and the Democratic Party are far-right conservatives.
Be fair. The current DNC nationalism is defined to promote only certain class groups, and to align with a globalist government.
Globohomo is Western elite nationalism. A planet-wide domination with their culture, beliefs and mores.
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and an uneducated ignoramus.
He's not lying, you child porn posting ignoramus asshole dipshit. You, on the other hand, are a liar of immense magnitude.
Are you actually trying to pretend Whitewater and Benghazi weren't real?
That's really pretty amazing.
Steve Jobs reality distortion field was nothing compared to what the left has.
Now do the Steel dossier.
Was "top republican" Liz Cheney?
Because there's been such a slew of garbage "studies," that nobody actually cares what studies say unless they already agree with the conclusion. Peer review means nothing, statistics mean nothing, because it's all been polluted by people who have terrible methodology.
I'm sure the same people who ignore these studies sincerely believe in that one shitty study about gas stoves causing asthma, which was selectively grabbing datasets from previous studies and just running regressions on different groups until they confirmed their hypothesis.
Me being a generic super bird is quite controversial due to the misinformation I am not a Supreme meat.
I hate to tell you this, my creation, but turducken is pretty awful. You can go back and check the original conversation about turducken two days ago — I talked about how awful turducken is.
Did you boil it in HO2 first?
You also brought it up as an example of GMO and lab grown meat dumdum.
Also just because you're as bad a cook as sarc doesn't make something bad.
No, dork, you claimed it was GMO. You were wrong, shown to be wrong, and then quintupled down on the wrongness.
He did literally the same with HO2 before he finally admitted he was wrong, and then when he got called on the turducken shit he reversed himself and claimed that he was hacked by that master hacker Tulpa, just like poor sarcasmic the post-graduate computer scientist. Amazing that two post-grad computer programmers just can't seem to keep their accounts secure, and have to go begging the Glibertarians to teach them how to use HTML to add bold and italics to text. Lmfao.
He did such a wonderful job with the Covid lockdown; what could go wrong here?
"Newsom's plan to transform San Quentin prison lacks details but is moving ahead"
[...]
"Tucked in the back corner of San Quentin State Prison's sprawling campus here sits a dilapidated warehouse, a humdrum building that's fallen into disrepair since the days it was used as an office furniture factory.
It's also ground zero for Gov. Gavin Newsom's ambitious $380-million plan to transform the state's oldest prison into a sweeping rehabilitation center modeled on the Scandinavian approach to incarceration, which focuses less on severe punishment and more on preparing individuals for life after prison..."
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/newsoms-plan-to-transform-san-quentin-prison-lacks-details-but-is-moving-ahead/ar-AA1eqRcs
He's a 'big-picture' guy, ya know? Details? Who cares?
How is that consistent with his support for stricter gun copntrol laws?
Those only apply to palefolk.
Pretty sure Newsom only consults with his image in the mirror; no one else is smart enough to advise him.
Just ask!
The whole California justice system is more focused on life after prison for the miscreants than on incarceration and keeping dangerous criminals off the streets. With predictable and observable results.
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Biden: Republicans might impeach me for lowering inflation
(Video)
https://twitter.com/townhallcom/status/1684985675521597440
Shrike and Biden have equal levels of intelligence.
Biden did nothing to lower inflation.
Powell did.
I'm sorry. Weren't you just defending inflation down to 3% (really 3.8%) above due to democrats? What was it when he started again?
My exact comment:
Inflation was transitory as it turns out. A world issue. Down to 3% now. 30 year rates have normalized.
Where did I give credit to Biden?
turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit an un-educated ignoramus and a pederast besides.
It was in defense as it is every morning ing in the roundup is it not? You don't continually defend Biden and dems in the comments? Lol.
Now is 3.8% inflation good or bad shrike? Why did you floor the rounding?
"Studies Keep Finding That Social Media Algorithms Don't Increase Polarization. Why Is the Press So Skeptical?"
Don't you know how to narrative?
But kinda cute that you think the press will find, analyze, and report objective information.
Social Media Algorithms Don’t Increase Polarization. Why Is the Press So Skeptical?
I haven’t looked at those studies but it is 100% certain that those algorithms will increase the limbic system reaction to whatever is seen and reduce the frontal lobe reaction – because that is how advertising works and everything Facebook does is driven by ad spending. It is also 100% certain that algorithms reduce serendipity because that is what algorithms do. Serendipity is not the same thing as simple ‘diversity of opinions as pigeonholed by some academic’. It is however precisely unexpected discovery of something new that is perceived as fortunate. iow – exactly what actually does reduce polarization or hardening of the echo chambers.
imo the press is skeptical because they know EXACTLY how all this mass manipulation occurs because that is what they have been doing for as long as technocratic elites have understood how the human brain works and we can be conditioned because the human is an animal. That dates back to at least the Dewey-Lippmann debates of the 1920’s and before that back to Pavlov and Freud. This time they are just honest because they aren’t being paid to be useful idiots.
imo – Reason is siding with the useful idiots of academia because Reason IS paid to be pollyannaish about technology and/or corporate manipulation of opinions/behaviors. And also has the whiggish libertarian blinders about the frontal lobe and ‘reason’.
We can argue about labels and methods, but to paraphrase Matt Taibbi, and Noam Chomsky before Matt, our commercial media realized the appeal of anger, and how to produce and sell that, decades ago. So yes, partisan sources will feed info about the opposition into their own bubble, but only in ways to both ridicule and stir up angry responses.
The Perception Gap Project polled people in 2018, about their own political views and what they thought people on the other side believed. Comparing what people said for themselves, and what others said for them, revealed significant gaps in reality. And the gaps ALWAYS increased with media consumption, with one exception: old fashioned national network TV news. People who got most or all of their info from the national networks had smaller gaps than people who consumed no media. All the rest, with their addictions to partisan sources, were more wrong about the "others".
but only in ways to both ridicule and stir up angry responses.
We’re saying similar stuff. And I agree with what you’ve added. That it is not just Facebook that is creating the limbic system emotionality. Everyone who is putting stuff on Facebook to influence others is also attempting to manipulate others via the same process that Facebook and journalists and technocrats have been using for decades.
So it really doesn’t matter what feed you’re getting. The entire system of social media (and mass communications) and everything on it is designed to increase emoting. And it works because humans are animals. The only thing that can be done is to turn it off.
Haidt has been studying it for over a decade and wrote a book on it. Liberals consistently misrepresent the arguments if their opponents scoring low in knowledge and understanding of the arguments if others. That is not true on the right. It shows a level of indoctrination and the ability to hide from views they disagree with, such as Mike does.
Social media has probably narrowed the gap from the two sides as people now ignore those other forms of displayed indoctrination such as with most of the news that used to be limited expanding and letting people pick and choose. Prior MSM and network news forced a viewpoint on people so even those who disagreed knew the arguments. Those agreed never saw counter arguments. This is less of an issue now.
These are the same people who are prosecuting Trump, the J6 defendants and cutting immunity deals with the Bidens.
Judge orders release of three of ‘Newburgh four’ and accuses FBI of ‘trolling for terrorists’
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jul/28/newburgh-four-released-fbi
Onta Williams, David Williams and Laguerre Payen – three of the men known as the “Newburgh four” – were “hapless, easily manipulated and penurious petty criminals” caught up more than a decade ago in a scheme driven by overzealous FBI agents and a dodgy informant, US district judge Colleen McMahon said on Thursday.
“The real lead conspirator was the United States,” McMahon wrote in granting the men’s request for compassionate release, effective in three months.
She said it was “heinous” of the men to agree to participate in what she called the government’s “made for TV movie”. But, the judge added, “the sentence was the product of a fictitious plot to do things that these men had never remotely contemplated, and that were never going to happen.”
She excoriated the government for sending “a villain” of an informant “to troll among the poorest and weakest of men for ‘terrorists’ who might prove susceptible to an offer of much-needed cash in exchange for committing a faux crime”.
The US attorney’s office declined to comment. A message was sent to the FBI.
The FBI and DoJ are still using the same documents. The Proud Boys trials key piece of evidence was a document a confidential informants sent to him at the FBI request and the prosecution never even had to prove he ever saw it, but used the evidence to formulate an unspoken conspiracy. The problem is this takes the courts a decade to review.
Jack Smith is a glowing example of this behavior as well having convictions overturned unanimously at the USSC. Yet he was chosen to go after Trump.
You referred to the same documents. Do these two cases have specific documents or an informant in common?
Think it got autocorrected. Not sure what I meant originally. May have meant it as game plan. As they continue to fabricate crimes at the DoJ and the FBI.
Yeah I kinda figured that was your point after giving it some more thought.
Well if these studies are conclusive, they should show them to the social media companies. Imagine their surprise.
My guess is the studies aren't and were never intended to be conclusive. They were intended to just gather otherwise unavailable info. Now those academics can get nice consulting contracts
Social media algorithms don't increase polarization.
Man posing as woman drinking toilet water posing as beer hardest hit.
Algorithms don't work!
Leave the Algorithm alone!
Long Live the Algorithm!
As tested over 3 months.
It's not happening.
It is happening but it's a good thing.
Algorithms are racist.
Until they aren't anymore.
STFU.
The algorithm has scheduled you for elimination. Sorry, nothing we can do about it.
“during the 3-month study period.”
Lol
Who are you going to believe? "Studies" that can reach any conclusion they want, or your own lying eyes? The Internet and social media have cranked up in the past 20 or 30 years, and the USA has become far more polarized in that time. It could be a coincidence, like COVID-19 randomly starting in wildlife in the same city as a COVID research lab.
Whenever social warriors switch from "Follow the Science" to "We Just Want Commonsense Regulations" it's a strong clue that The Science doesn't support their narrative. It takes time for Federal, State and Local Officials to commission "scientific" studies from "scientists" who depend on government funding to prove what they want to prove, so there will be a bit of a delay before The Science starts supporting their narrative again. Thank you ... that is all ...
😉
You may have something there!
Urban "coasties", whatever they are, tend to be educated well enough to thrive in just about any environment. Their first move would be to locate the nearest public library (that hadn't been shut down or torched by Moms For Liberty). Local libraries usually have personnel and materials with helpful information about most aspects of their surrounding communities and how folks get along there. Next, they would find the nearest seed 'n' feed store and spend time getting to know the regulars there. These guys are almost always friendly and eager to talk about how they work their land. Finally, our coasties would locate the nearest state agricultural extension agent(s), who will be able to answer any questions the librarian and feed store guys can't; that's what they get paid to do. In short, the transplanted folks you probably regard as rubes will very likely do just fine, in part because they'll be smart enough to know what they don't know and to learn from their neighbors.
PS: Perhaps you mean "Washington Post Coasties"? Sorry, poor impulse control today.
Do you mean the urban coasties who can't go outside without sunscreen, face masks, medication, life coaches, public transportation, and government guidance and protection? Or some boys from the hood?
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/us-was-behind-both-crimean-bridge-attacks-seymour-hersh
"Our national strategy is that Zelensky can do whatever he wants to do. There’s no adult supervision," the US official complained.
A section proving to be among the more blunt and controversial assessments from Hersh's report is as follows:
At this point, with the Ukraine counteroffensive against Russia thwarted, the official said, "Zelensky has no plan, except to hang on. It’s as if he’s an orphan—a poor waif in his underwear—and we have no real idea of what Zelensky and his crowd are thinking. Ukraine is the most corrupt and dumbest government in the world, outside of Nigeria, and Biden’s support of Zelensky can only come from Zelensky’s knowledge of Biden, and not just because he was taking care of Biden’s son."
There is a reason why the DNC chose Ukraine to launder funds.
Next you’ll be telling us Biden bragged (on video!) that he got the Ukrainian prosecutor who was investigating him fired.
The corruption is systemic.
"Algorithms are extremely influential in terms of…shaping their on-platform experience," researcher Joshua Tucker, co-director of the Center for Social Media and Politics at New York University, told The Washington Post. Despite this, "we find very little impact in changes to people's attitudes about politics and even people's self-reported participation around politics."
That's not a good thing. Siloing is when one gets all information from only like minded sources. I first came across the idea in the lead up to the Iraq war, not an outcome you'd put forward as positive. Of course siloing doesn't change attitudes, how could it? I'd be happier if exposure to varied sources of information over the Internet did have an impact on people's attitudes.
It's neither a good thing nor a bad thing. "Siloing" just is. What the research seems to show is that the algorithms do not defeat siloing either way. Confirmation bias is a powerful, probably genetically pre-determined instinct. Like all instincts it can be overcome by intelligence - for example by using the scientific method carefully - but only intentionally after realizing one's own biases. Even exposure to contradictory evidence cannot defeat confirmation bias unless the reader WANTS to overcome it. So the point is that regulatory requirements that might lead to exposing biased people to a broader range of facts or theories will not succeed!
Bullshit. Who funded these "studies" that run counter to observable reality? Gee, I wonder.
The establishment press is pushing this and they have been wrong about literally everything. Everything.
Every study is inherently biased. To say that “some studies = truth” is to create a faulty syllogism.
Correlation is simple. Taller people weight more on average than shorter people. As an adult, expecting to get taller because you purposefully gain weight can not be inferred by the correlation.
Drawing imperial conclusion from any study that only specifies correlation shows all media outlets inherent bias. I’d tell you all to take all opinions with a grain of salt, and salt intake is corollated with increased heart disease.
On the one hand, these studies were done in collaboration with Meta itself. So they are not completely independent. So you need to take them with a grain of salt. On the other hand, that applies to all research on the effects of social media algorithms, because the companies have all of the data. So collaborating with them is the only way to get the data that you need to do this research at all.
But taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture, polarization has been going on since the 70s. So saying that polarization is happening because of social media means arguing for time travel. Social media was always just a scape goat for Democrats losing elections.
It doesn't increase polarization, but it certainly solidifies it with shadow bans and censorship.
“with shadow bans and censorship”
You left out the other side of that coin: the tons of false information and half truths that echo around inside each of the Team Red and Team Blue echo chambers.
For example, on Elon Musk’s X (formerly Twitter) “censorship” is dramatically decreased but there are now floods of untrue information on the site.
It's a weird parameter to focus on. What do they mean by "polarization?" Are people increasingly expressing rafically divergent views? When the algorithm actively suppresses one side you are going to see more of a monolithic political landscape on the platform. In that sense they are trying to decrease polarization on the platform by pushing one side off. It also succeeds in moving the overton window one way by only exposing the moderates left behind in that direction. The study itself is answering a dumb critique from the left while not actually doing anything to explain the factors at play
The article delves into studies debunking the notion that social media algorithms fuel polarization, urging media to rethink their skepticism.
https://mylist.bio/
Since media are part of the polarization, urging them to rethink their skepticism will fail. That's what confirmation bias means. Exposing the media to contradictory evidence will not work any better on the media than it works on the public.
Original:
"Studies Keep Finding That Social Media Algorithms Don't Increase Polarization"
Corrected:
"Studies Funded by Social Media Keep Finding That Social Media Algorithms Don't Increase Polarization"
It is interesting that Meta works so hard at curating political ideas on behalf of the establishment left, yet are so motivated to demonstrate that this does not harm the public discourse as measured by "polarization".... where the measure of success is "no increase".
If we chose a different metric than "polarization", I wonder what we would find.
I mean, the FBI alone had an office that spent $83 million on "combating misinformation" (read as "suppressing disfavored political speech"). Surely they think they are getting something for the money.
I don't know why you say "surely" in that context. Surely the least likely entity to "think they are getting something for the money" is a government agency. What any government agency gets for the money is self-reinforcing justification for their existence. "We need the money to achieve a goal and the goal must be worthy because you keep giving us money to accomplish the mission, even if we never actually achieve it," should be the national motto. Social media platforms spend money on proving that they're politically correct with no need for evidence that it helps, just like their advertising budget.
“Meta works so hard at curating political ideas on behalf of the establishment left”
Fact not in evidence.
And Meta has publicly said recently they are trying to de-emphasize political discussion on their platforms.
That is just a straight up lie. We have mountains of evidence. You have personally commented on mountains of evidence, so there is zero chance that you are in any way unaware of what has been happening.
What a pathetic way to go about life... and what a pathetic reason. Why would anyone simp for these asshats? Being politically aligned is certainly not enough of a reason... not for anyone with a shred of personal integrity.
There is evidence of some specific acts of censorship by Facebook. There is not evidence of anything as sweepingly systematic as “curating political ideas”.
Yet another attempt at witness intimidation
https://twitter.com/ChuckCallesto/status/1685670381519015936
Really odd that this isn't more of an issue. Aren't we up to "fool me 7 times, shame on...."
You would think that the press would have gotten a clue after they came after Taibbi while he was testifying....
Well, maybe they did catch the intended clue. Which is probably worse.
"Why Is the Press So Skeptical?"
They're not - it's just that it doesn't match their narrative, granted one would think that skepticism would indeed be one of the main tenets of the press.
It's rather ironic it was the progressive comedian Colbert who coined the term 'truthiness' and it's his allies in the "press" who brand actual real facts as misinformation in order to suppress honest news reporting.
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