Does Trump's 'Alternate' Electors Plan Justify Criminal Charges Against Them and Him?
The alleged state and federal felonies involve intent elements that may be difficult to prove.

Former President Donald Trump yesterday said he had received a letter from the Justice Department indicating that he is a "target" of Special Counsel Jack Smith's investigation of efforts to overturn Joe Biden's victory in the 2020 presidential election. That revelation came the same day that Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel, a Democrat, announced charges against 16 Republicans who had identified themselves as the state's voter-selected electors in certificates they signed on December 14, 2020.
That maneuver, which was part of a seven-state plan to prevent congressional certification of the election results, also figures in the expected federal charges against Trump, who may yet face state charges in Michigan and Georgia in connection with the same scheme. But the state and federal charges require an intent to defraud or another improper purpose, which could be a difficult element to prove. It raises the question of whether Trump sincerely believed that systematic fraud had deprived him of his rightful victory and that he was pursuing legitimate remedies for what he mistakenly perceived as a grave injustice.
One of the likely federal charges against Trump is obstruction of an official proceeding—in this case, the January 6, 2021, tally of electoral votes. A potential justification for that charge, which is a felony punishable by up to 20 years in prison, is that Trump, by encouraging Republicans in Michigan and six other battleground states to falsely present themselves as their states' true electors, "corruptly" obstructed the congressional ceremony. Several Republican members of Congress cited those "alternate" electors as a reason for objecting to the Biden slates, and Trump repeatedly pressured Vice President Mike Pence, in public and in private, to delay or block the tally on the same basis in his capacity as president of the Senate.
Pence resisted those entreaties, saying the Constitution did not give him the power that Trump wanted him to exercise. That position enraged Trump and his supporters, including the protesters whose riot disrupted the electoral vote count, some of whom expressed a desire to "hang Mike Pence." Pence, who is now competing with Trump for the 2024 Republican presidential nomination, yesterday said "history will hold him to account for his actions that day." But he is skeptical of attempts to hold Trump criminally liable.
"I hope it doesn't come to that," Pence said. "I'm not convinced that the president acting on bad advice of a group of crank lawyers that came into the White House in the days before January 6 is actually criminal."
Pence, like the other Republican contenders facing off against a former president with a commanding lead in the polls, is loath to offend Trump's supporters. The point he raises is nevertheless important, because federal prosecutors would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump acted "corruptly" when he encouraged the "alternate" electors and pressured Pence.
The "bad advice" that Pence mentioned came from "crank lawyers" like Rudy Giuliani, who may face Georgia charges for his role in the alternate-electors plan. Another important influence was John Eastman, who at the time was a Chapman University law professor. During conversations with Trump and his staff, Eastman conceded that Pence's intervention would violate the Electoral Count Act, but he argued that the statute was unconstitutional.
It is plausible, given everything we know about Trump, that he favored advice from lawyers who told him what he wanted to hear. It is also plausible, although by no means clear, that he honestly believed he had won reelection and eagerly latched onto any claim, no matter how specious, that reinforced his conviction. If so, it is hard to see how he acted "corruptly," because he thought his purpose was proper.
The state charges against Michigan's would-be electors present a similar puzzle. They face eight felony counts, including various forgery-related charges, all of which hinge on intent. Conspiracy to commit forgery, for example, requires a scheme to "falsely make, alter, forge, or counterfeit a public record, with intent to injure or defraud." The 16 defendants did that, Nessel says, by signing "fraudulent 'Certificates of Votes'" identifying themselves as Michigan's electors. But if they honestly believed that the official results were decisively corrupted by tricky election software, phony ballot dumps, or other kinds of chicanery—meaning they were in fact the true electors—it is doubtful that they had an "intent to injure or defraud."
That defense is arguably supported by historical precedent for dueling slates of electors, each of which claimed to be the genuine article. After the 1960 presidential election, there was a dispute about whether John F. Kennedy or Richard Nixon had won Hawaii. As Politico noted in its 2022 account of that dispute, it has become a touchstone for Republicans who argue that Trump's "fake electors" (as The New York Times reflexively calls them) did nothing improper, or at least nothing criminal.
"Nixon had prevailed by just 140 votes, according to the initial results, which were certified by the governor," Politico noted. When Democratic and Republican electors met on December 19, 1960, a recount was underway, and both groups signed certificates that they sent to Washington, D.C. Although they did not reflect the official results, the Democrats' certificates unambiguously identified them as "duly and legally appointed and qualified" Electoral College members. They did not mention Nixon's certified victory or the recount.
In five of the seven states that Trump's supporters identified as disputed in 2020, the would-be electors did essentially the same thing. But in Pennsylvania and New Mexico, Politico reported, they "included a caveat: their votes would only be counted if ongoing court battles broke in favor of Trump."
Kennedy, who did not need Hawaii's three electoral votes to win the national contest, "prevailed by an eyelash when the recount concluded on Dec. 28, 1960," Politico noted. "A newly sworn-in governor certified the Kennedy victory and transmitted a new slate of Electoral College certificates—signed by the same three Democrats who falsely claimed to have won two weeks earlier."
Those three electors were legitimate, a state judge, Ronald Jamieson, concluded on January 4, 1961. He "said it was important that those electors met and gathered on Dec. 19, 1960, as prescribed by the Electoral Count Act."
Two days later, Nixon, then vice president, oversaw the congressional count of electoral votes: "He acknowledged receiving all three sets of certificates: the GOP slate, the uncertified Democratic slate and the certified Democratic slate. He then agreed that the newest one—the Democrats certified by Gov. William Quinn—should be counted, even though they were certified weeks after the required meeting of the Electoral College." That slate, Nixon said, "properly and legally portrays the facts with respect to the electors chosen by the people of Hawaii." No one faced criminal charges over the Democrats' seemingly fraudulent December 19 certificates.
In contrast with what happened in 1960, when there was a genuine, fact-based dispute about the outcome in Hawaii, the self-certified Trump electors in Michigan relied on unsubstantiated fraud claims that were never accepted by election officials or the courts. But they may have imagined that a similar scenario would play out, this time involving multiple states and much bigger stakes. However far-fetched that expectation may have been, Jamieson's retroactive validation of the Kennedy electors' premature certificates and Nixon's acceptance of their votes may have lent credence to the idea.
Under Michigan's forgery statutes, in any case, what really matters is whether the defendants believed their conduct was a legitimate way to preserve objections they thought were well-grounded. If so, their intent was not "to injure or defraud"; it was to correct the consequences of a massive fraud, albeit an imaginary one.
"I'm very disappointed in the attorney general's office," a lawyer for one of the Michigan defendants told the Times. "This is all political, obviously. If they want to charge my client, how come they didn't charge Trump and the Trump lawyers that he sent here to discuss with the delegates what to do?"
That may yet happen. Nessel said her investigation is ongoing, and Fulton County, Georgia, District Attorney Fani T. Willis is considering charges against Trump and his lawyers based on their attempts to reverse Biden's victory, including the alternate-electors scheme. But those potential prosecutions would face a similar obstacle, and so would federal charges based on the same conduct.
Were Giuliani and Eastman true believers? They certainly acted as if they were. What about Trump? I honestly don't know; there is evidence pointing in both directions. But when the evidence is mixed or ambiguous, prosecutors may have a hard time making their case beyond a reasonable doubt.
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There is no doubt that this country will be breaking some new ground with some of these court cases. People must have options to challenge election results, but those challenges must be legitimate and not gamesmanship. The question is how far are people allowed to go on feelings rather than hard evidence. The Hawaii example is good as the difference was initially 140 votes, a number that could be swung in a recount. When the differences are in the thousands, it is a different story. It would be hard to change differences that large.
It isn’t new ground. Kennedy did the same ducking thing with the electors in 1960. They did it when there was a court case pending that might have thrown out the existing electoral votes, just like with Trump. The new elector slate was contingent on that outcome in court. As it is here. This is just democrat kooks looking to throw the kitchen sink at trump. As he is innocent of any crime, they hav to make shit up.
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Sullum is guilty of fraud for the 100 articles he wrote in the month after the election claiming it was completely legitimate.
Enemy of the people.
"Everyone who says something I don't like should be imprisoned or, better yet, murdered. I am a serious person and not at all a fragile little goose stepper."
Wow. For a moment there, I thought you were quoting Nancy Pelosi. But when I read goose stepper, I knew your comment was clearly inspired by Adam Schiff. Very convincing. Two big thumbs up.
Are you taking about what the democrats are doing to Trump and anyone else they don’t like? Because if you’re not, then you’re a tremendous fucking retard.
yo
Yes of course they need to be charged. The forged documents falsely claiming they were the electors for the state. Then they sent that forged document to the National Archives in an effort for it to be accepted as rear. This was all done with the intent to install and unelected person as president. This is a big deal. Anyone else who assisted them also needs to be prosecuted. If Trump was involved in any way that would be a direct attack on our democracy.
Did they forget the required SoS signature on the forms? Nope. So what forgery? They printed a publicly available document.
The Durham Report exposed an attack pn democracy and a conspiracy to defraud the United States that you supported.
The Durham Report showed nothing of the kind. He investigated for four years found little that had not already been identified by the inspector general. He got one plea deal and zero convictions. You can't make Durham's pigs ear into a silk purse.
They hear "Durham" and get a little stiffy.
Like when you look at a young boy’s ass?
You literally trotted out “this is old news” to downplay this. You’re nothing if not predictable.
OJ Simpson is innocent is just as valid.
The IG knew the Steele dossier was bullshit?
That the FBI offer one million if any allegation in the dossier could be proven?
That the Clinton campaign paid for fake DNS information to false claim a nefarious connection between a Russian bank and Trump which was a lie created by an active duty FBI agent?
There was things that the Durham investigation brought to light that the left likes to ignore.
The left just wants to look at the political score, not the substance of what was uncovered. Which says a lot.
I keep telling you that shrike just isn’t that into you. No matter how comically stupid you get.
Proof of a crime is not the issue here, you know.
It's whatever they can make stick, and whatever they can enrage people with.
"Sure, the Dems did exactly the same thing in 2016, and had articles printed in numerous nationwide papers exhorting the same tactics, but they had Right on their side so fuck Trump."
The key question for the fraudulent electors case, from a Nixon/Kennedy perspective, is were these people actually on the ballot as electors? The ones in the 1960 case actually WERE Elector candidates.
Doing a bit of research, yes, they actually were real Elector candidates, making their position similar to the Democratic Electors in 1960. That puts them in a much better position, legally, than if they'd just been some randos.
'Fake' electors from several other states, I understand, may not so fortunately positioned.
In regards to Trump, I think you'd have to demonstrate that he actually directed this effort, rather than just taking advantage of it. Either that, or arrange for 12 Democratic jurors; THAT would render any legal arguments redundant.
Democrats supported and advertised alternate elector strategy all the way back in 2015. Apparently it only became illegal now.
Is there a link to this?
https://www.npr.org/2016/12/19/506188169/donald-trump-poised-to-secure-electoral-college-win-with-few-surprises
https://www.twincities.com/2016/12/19/minnesota-electoral-college-bittersweet-votes-hillary-clinton-donald-trump/
Looking for the campaign they started.
Here is media supporting it.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/2016/11/16/fact-check-could-electoral-college-elect-hillary-clinton-instead-donald-trump/93951818/
Change.org petition.
https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19-2017
Those were faithless electors, not fake electors. Big big difference.
No. They are not. The outcome is the same.
No, it is a difference. You actually have a moderately good argument for electors being legally entitled to be faithless. Constitutionally, they were supposed to be the ones to pick the President.
Filing the paperwork saying you were picked as an elector when you know you actually weren't IS fraud, the only defense here is past practice and the necessity of doing something of the sort to keep the legal controversy alive.
Keep pretending the technicalities of law matter anymore.
Totes useful
Hilarious.
Crazy trailer trash whore MTG just held up a large picture of Hunter Biden’s Penis during the “IRS whistleblower” hearing.
It was blurred out for TV, of course. Republicans are all in a tizzy swooning and sweating.
edit - Congressman Garcia just used the term "dick pics".
the hearing is a farce. Congress sucks.
More than half has been on regards to the foreign payments, tax violations, FARA violations, wire transfers, DoJ not allowing normal investigative steps... yet thats all you got from the hearings so far?
Jesse, you're confusing Benito here with a thinking human being.
Fair.
It fucks children. It isn’t human at all
I can't prove it but I think MTG wants to become Hunter's new fuck-toy.
Same age, same meth demographic, both whore-hoppers.
Yeah. That's what is going on.
You could have just said yes. Everyone in congress is too old for your proclivities anyways.
funny
Not really.
Add comedy as another thing sarc doesn't understand.
Even if Democrats stole the election the fake electors were still fake electors. They claimed to have been duly elected. They were not. Two groups were smart enough to qualify their votes as conditional on the state election results being overturned. The other five groups just lied.
In 2000 the apparent winner of the Senate election in Missouri was dead. That did not make Ashcroft the winner.
If some of the fake electors knew or believed that the election was not fraudulent: lock ’em up
If they thought it was for subjectively good reason: acquit
If they didn’t care whether it was or not: I’m not sure what the law requires, but I am not in favour of legal defences which actively encourage future intentional ignorance. And strict liability should be rare but it is suited to situations where intentional ignorance would otherwise be encouraged.
Joseph Heller would be proud. Prosecutors are claiming that because these electors filed the forms a court should rule they are guilty of a crime for actions that had no effect other than asserting their position, but if they had failed to file the forms they could never assert that position because the court would rule they have no standing for failure to file. Despite the 1st amendment right to redress the government for grievances, the only proper course of action was to shut the fuck up accept it without argument. Oh, and fuck Trump because FYTW.
What am I missing?
What am I missing?
That the right to petition does not include filing such forms. Duh. Ejercito tried to use the right to petition as an argument in favour of Trump's pressing Raffensperger to find votes. I wonder, therefore, whether the newest right-wing thing is to argue that the right to petition covers any and all actions in support of Trump's re-election claims.
I agree here, there certainly is a right to petition but you have to accept the outcome of that petition. There is no guarantee that your petition will be heard and acted upon. A petition without supporting evidence or data is likely to be noted and rejected.
There is a difference between having a petition rejected and being prosecuted for a petition.
It is not, nor can not be, a crime per se for a police officer to apply for a search warrant that is subsequently rejected.
Does the form require certification by the SoS or not?
I see you continue to lie about the Trump Ga phone call shrike. I gave you the transcript just yesterday. Which again shows you do support political application of the law.
Still not shrike, you lying POS.
I made no comment at the time on the transcript one way or another. What I did ask was which courts supported Trump's claims of the stolen election:
https://reason.com/2023/07/18/georgia-supreme-court-declines-donald-trumps-request-to-quash-grand-jury-report/?comments=true#comment-10159940
Why you feel the need to lie about my response, I do not know. Unless you're not lying, but your comprehension was so deficient you didn't understand it. This is always a possibility given your inability to read judicial decisions with any understanding.
"Still not shrike, you lying POS."
You're being complimented, obnoxiously arrogant lying piece of shit.
Imagine that, people who have read and understand the constitution actually applying it to current situations. How wonderfully right-wing of them.
Get bent, limey.
Imagine that, people who read and understand the Constitution thinking that whining to a state official or providing fake documents does not constitution "petitioning".
Whining to a state official, as you call it, is fully protected as petitioning under the First Amendment.
Okay diet shrike.
How are the documents fake?
Even if a document contains false information, that doesn't make the document fake, just wrong.
I'm having trouble finding legal precedent that establishes your claimed exclusion as it relates to redressability. Do you have a particular case in mind?
If you had found a case that disproved my assertion - which assertion is based on the literal text of 1A - you would assuredly have posted it. But McDonald v Smith provides no immunity for libel under the petition clause, which logically indicates that unlawful statements are not protected by that clause.
If you had found a case that disproved my assertion...
I literally wrote that I was having trouble finding legal precedent, and asked if you had a particular case in mind that supported your claim that the right to petition does not include filing such forms. McDonald v Smith was one of the cases I reviewed prior to writing my comment, but was unsure how it could be interpreted as exclusionary without proof of intent. I agree that an argument can be made, though I’m still uncertain that it rises to the level of criminality. Thank you for your clarification.
Retarded British Shrike isn't actually a lawyer, despite claiming to play one on TV.
What you are missing is that it is against the law to file fake papers just because you don't like the real papers. If you had evidence of voter fraud, it should be taken to court where it will be adjudicated. In this case, there were actually quite a few hilarious attempts to do that with bogus evidence (perjury charges?) and were ruled against by the courts.
Whether Trump's actions concerning the Electoral College vote were "actually" illegal or simply another in a long series of culture war tactical battles has become almost irrelevant by now. If it was illegal the most important point that represents is that the Federal laws have become so abstruse that they can be used by anyone in power against anyone else for any reason with almost no legal logic or criminal intent. The legal maneuvering of the two political parties in power is more of a power game than equal justice under the law and the rest of us are only potential collateral damage from the fallout.
Don't try to play the "boaf sidez" game here. If Trump wins the next election and goes after his political enemies it would be totally different because.
Would you continue to defend the actions like you do for Biden and the dems?
I'm not playing whataboutism here. If Trump wins and goes after his political opponents with criminal charges I will be against that too. My point was that the laws themselves are unconstitutionally broad and vague making them handy tools for bludgeoning political opponents. If there is a need for laws against "obstructing an official proceeding" they should be very specific about what action is illegal and very clear about intent to commit a crime for personal gain. There are over four thousand (no one knows how many more than that there are) equally broad and vague federal laws, most of which do not require intent in order to convict that should be declared unconstitutional and the few that are actually necessary should be rewritten more clearly. The ones that aren't actually needed within the intended constitutional limits on federal power should be trashed and the federal agencies they represent eliminated.
Honestly, at this point, fuck it. If Trump wins, in even the most retardedly obviously contrived fashion, I'll support him simply shipping his detractors off to the gulags. Fuck all of those clowns.
Never thought I'd look forward to joining a "right wing death squad" but here's 2023...
the precedent had already been set.
This isn't about abstruse federal laws. The procedure for selecting the president and confirming him in Congress is very straightforward. It doesn't include sending alternate slates of bogus electors to Congress to pretend they are the real electors, when absolutely none of them had the backing of their respective state governments.
You're being obtuse. If you have a valid argument, great, but don't deliberately misread MWAocdoc's comment to establish your premise--that's both a dick move and a fallacy.
It’s kinda what they do.
So where was your objection to this tactic by the Dems in 2016? Please provide links.
If you want to go that route then these States who want to award all Electors based on the State's popular vote are violating the Constitution.
Contesting an election is illegal if a Democrat win. Its not both sides Its "the Party".
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the crime of fraud depend on there being some type of economic loss or harm on the part of the victim?
In this case, if these individuals are guilty of fraud, and the government is the victim of fraud, then what is the harm that the government suffered? Did they trick the government into letting them vote in the Electoral College? No. Did they trick the secretary of state into signing the official form? No.
I am having a hard time seeing how this is a crime of fraud conceptually here.
More interesting to me... They have again raided Trump's attorneys, seizing their phones.
I don't remember this ever happening... Ever. And now the Biden Democrat party seems to do this routinely.
Yeah, that used to be a big f'ing deal, now it's everyday, not worth commenting on.
The left have gone all in on the position that "error has no rights". Not a right to freedom of speech, not a right to counsel in a court of law.
If you don't have a right to have a lawyer, I suppose it makes sense that you don't have a right to client/attorney privilege.
The thinking is they tried to gain the benefit of Trump being re-elected, I think.
It seems pretty obvious to me that their intent was to submit bogus electors and steal the election. I don't see any other way you can characterize the acts of gathering fake electors, having them sign fake documents, and sending them to Washington without the approval of any state governments. Were they just fooling?
Guilty by reason of seems pretty obvious to me.
Case closed.
Please drown yourself in your bathtub.
It's pretty difficult to see with your eyes held shut.
The idea was that they could leverage the EC count to force their complaints about how the election was conducted to actually be addressed. In theory, this might lead to the outcomes in several states being legally reversed, which would make those elector slates the legit ones.
They had to file to preserve this possibility, just as in 1960.
Now, the truth is that the EC count was more likely to be interrupted by a meteor taking out the Capitol, than for this plan to work. But it was the plan.
Seems pretty obvious to me that you're a TDS-addled steaming pile of shit.
"Those three electors were legitimate, a state judge, Ronald Jamieson, concluded on January 4, 1960"
That January date would be in 1961, after the November 1960 elections.
Trump has a solid defense – I am a narcissistic child. Anyone who takes me seriously about anything is an idiot.
Theidiots likewise have a solid defense - I am an idiot. I was just following the orders of a child.
You mean the It's someone else's fault! defense?
Yeah, that's been used by the body politic writ large since the beginning of time. So, before you go pinning it all on Trump, you might want to consider the caveman who fucked up thousands of years ago and blamed it on his neighbor, Mr. Rubble.
You are, in fact, an idiot. Interesting to see you finally admit it, though. Go choke to death on a paper mask.
JFree has a solid defense: he's a TDS-addled steaming pile of shit.
The Rachel Maddow defense?
I will remind you that president Obama ordered the FBI to frame Flynn for a crime. Nobody even called a prosecutor.
Trump is accused of talking about attempting to use actual legal remedies built into the system. Remedies that have been tried at various times in the past (and that met with similar levels of success). Herself had alternat juror slates and ca!painted for faithless electors to name her president.
Even if you pretend that the accusations against Trump are true, they are not even a rounding error on what Obama did to block the peaceful transfer of power.
If we go down that road, there are a lot of democrats who should be in front of the firing squad before Trump faces an orange jumpsuit.
What evidence do you have?
For sound economic perspective go to https://honesteconomics.substack.com/
> The alleged state and federal felonies involve intent elements that may be difficult to prove.
Like they give a fuck.
BAD ORANGE MAN MUST FRY!
just try them in DC – that jury pool is totes all about justice
Several Republican members of Congress cited those “alternate” electors as a reason for objecting to the Biden slates, and Trump repeatedly pressured Vice President Mike Pence, in public and in private, to delay or block the tally on the same basis in his capacity as president of the Senate.
Pence resisted those entreaties, saying the Constitution did not give him the power that Trump wanted him to exercise.
Well holy crap, somebody in Washington actually did their job.
"That position enraged Trump and his supporters, including the protesters whose riot disrupted the electoral vote count, some of whom expressed a desire to "hang Mike Pence.""
Strangely enough, no charges against the people who, a few months earlier, set up a guillotine bearing a mannequin of Trump in front of the White House.
An alternate slate of electors is NOT a crime. While I don't like Trump, would never vote for him, and don't like the idea that he could become president again. I despise what the Democrat party has become and the lengths and depths they are willing to sink into the gutters of corruption.
Trump has been targeted deliberately for items that are marginal at best and often with outright lies. It is even worse that the lies have been exposed as deliberate lies and not honest mistakes.
I advocate removing the corrupt Biden regime, but not replace one bad choice with another. Trump is not the answer to what is wrong with Washington DC. We went from Dumb to Dumber, where Trump was mediocre at best and Biden is an outright disaster.
The problem was not that there were alternate slates of electors, the problem was that these alternate slates were sent in to Congress. Parties do not pick the electors, the states pick the electors. Often the just send in the list the winning party of candidate picked, but it's still the state that sends them in.
The issue at hand is whether there was some sort of criminal intent in organizing these strategy. Given the shysters that invaded the White House with bad advice, there very well could have been. But proving intent is damned difficult.
Oh, how you lawyers love your hypotheticals!
When you look at this from the point of view of the electorate, however, it is obviously politically motivated. The votes cast by the unofficial electors were never counted. The Democratic candidate won the election, the real elector's official votes were counted, and the winner was installed and has been President since 2020. Now that the next campaign season is heating up, however, the state finally bestirs itself to bring charges.
Bah. If the legal profession had any sense of self-preservation whatsoever, they would be heavily criticizing these politicos who are bringing this up now. People know fair play when they see it, and this isn't it.
It's sad how we're still collectively incapable of discussing Trump rationally, but we knew before election day that voting had been corrupted with Covid serving as the excuse. No amount of semantics and spin will ever change the fact that election rules were dramatically altered and repeatedly violated. The media will keep saying no fraud using the most narrow definition of you impersonating another voter. Too much time has passed. Notice how nobody talks about Abe Hamadeh anymore? Read about his story. Same thing happened to him. The legal system is incapable of addressing the issue which is precisely why Democrats cheat in this manner. They know we can't do a 100% forensic audit of every ballot cast, meaning our claims are impossible to prove in court. Courts refuse to give us the right to that evidence. They deny the level of discovery required to prove the claims. Judges say it takes too long, and objectively speaking, they are correct that this process becomes harder as time passes. Why is that? Who designed it to be that way? Who benefits? Shouldn't elections have the highest standards possible?
It's also interesting that nobody connects the dots between the legal challenge, J6, and 2024. Trump is relatively healthy and is young enough to seek re-election, as he is doing now. If his beliefs weren't sincere, he had no reason contest the election. He's legally eligible and still popular and in the immediate aftermath of J6, some people thought there was no chance he could run again. We have known for years now that the coordinated effort against Trump started in 2014, so why are we suddenly having amnesia about that fact? The Russia hoax didn't end. They just rebranded.
J6 was a fed instigated plot to poison the well and kill Trump's legal challenge as well as to provide a basis for fraudulent charges to distract from his campaign. In the short term, the feds thought it worked. They're slowly realizing it has failed. Wouldn't be surprised if someone got to Murdoch too. It is no coincidence that Tucker happened as soon as he challenge the J6 narrative. The feds use the excuse of proper procedure, but we all know why additional charges are brought all at the same time during an election. Even if they aren't serious with proceeding, they can stir the pot and affect the election. They know they're gonna need it. I just hope enough Democrats out there have the tiniest shred of dignity and put the country before the party. They didn't do this in 2020 and elected a vegetable, but they didn't know this was going to happen. Now they have no excuse.
Intent won't matter when you have a jury determined to convict Republicans regardless of the facts. That is where the U.S. "Justice" system is now.
The alleged state and federal felonies involve intent elements that *were simply pulled out of someone's ass*
Fixed.
We are seeing a level of no hold barred, ramped up prosecution that the left doesn't favor, except when it's their enemy.
The law is clear, it is the STATE the sends the list of electors to Congress, according to the process in place, which can vary from state to state. The parties often get to choose the slate, but it is the state that sends it in if they deem that party to have won.
These alternate electors were NEVER legal electors. Doesn't mean they necessarily acted criminally, just stupidly.