Banning TikTok Is a Power the Federal Government Doesn't Deserve
Today, TikTok. Tomorrow, who knows?

Last week, members of Congress relentlessly grilled Shou Zi Chew, the CEO of Chinese social media giant TikTok. Anger toward Chew was remarkably bipartisan: Both Republicans and Democrats consider TikTok an addictive service that harms kids, provides a vector for Chinese government propaganda, and captures the personal data of millions of Americans.
These concerns are not entirely unfounded. The Chinese government's thirst for censorship is well documented: The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) has gone to great lengths to prohibit content relating to Winnie the Pooh wherever it might appear, for instance, due to the character's resemblance to President Xi Jinping. And when Google attempted to relaunch in China, the government forced the company to restrict searches relating to Tiananmen Square. Chew testified before Congress that political dissent is widely available on TikTok, but there is plenty of evidence that the social media platform has suppressed content shown in the U.S. at the Chinese government's behest.
China isn't the only one playing that game. The U.S. government has also shown great interest in controlling what information its citizens consume online. Both the Twitter Files and the Facebook Files have shown that American social media companies have faced relentless pressure to restrict speech on controversial subjects like COVID-19 vaccines, Hunter Biden, and the 2020 election. Federal agencies including the State Department, Department of Homeland Security, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the FBI, and even the White House have all communicated with moderators at social media companies, urging them to take action against legal speech.
The U.S. government's behavior on this front has been so disreputable—so thoroughly at odds with the principles of the First Amendment—that all Americans should be deeply skeptical of efforts by federal lawmakers and bureaucrats to claim for themselves even more power over tech platforms. But that's precisely the point of the TikTok hearings: to give Congress a pretext to unilaterally ban TikTok.
It's worth repeating that TikTok's position as an entity beholden to the CCP is genuinely worrying, and though investigators have not produced much compelling evidence of genuine malfeasance in the data-collection category, no one should be overly naive about the CCP's capabilities. As the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE) noted in a statement about banning TikTok: "We recognize the significant national security threat posed by troves of sensitive information in the hands of an adversarial government. The legal obligations of Chinese companies with regard to data sharing with the Chinese Communist Party are startling."
Even so, FIRE rightly frets that banning TikTok would ultimately "shut down an immensely popular means of communication for the tens of millions of Americans who use the app every day to share and consume information, news, ideas, political advocacy, and creative content." TikTok, as FIRE points out, is a vital platform for people to engage in free expression—including and especially young people. The U.S. government taking action against the platform is itself an act of vast censorship.
Worse still, there is every reason to think the U.S. government will misuse this newfound power to unilaterally banish specific social media platforms. The RESTRICT Act, a bipartisan bill that would authorize the Commerce Department to take action against TikTok also empowers it to "deter, disrupt, prevent, prohibit, and mitigate transactions involving information and communications technology products in which any foreign adversary has any interest and poses undue or unacceptable risk to national security." The bill is supported by the Biden administration.
But the Biden administration's FBI has taken the position that American social media companies were infiltrated by Russian bots and that companies like Twitter are failing democracy by refusing to censor even more content. Mainstream media outlets and a coalition of government-supported think tanks have incorrectly accused social media platforms of being little more than useful idiots for Russian-backed disinformation campaigns.
Should we expect the veritable army of federal bureaucrats obsessed with policing speech on social media platforms to narrowly utilize this new mandate to deter foreign threats and focus solely on the CCP? Or should we anticipate that every weapon added to their arsenal is a threat to the free speech rights of everyday Americans?
If the U.S. government really wants to counter Chinese tyranny, it should take greater pains not to resemble China's own approach to speech. Confusingly, some media commentators who oppose TikTok on grounds that the Chinese government is an enemy seem to almost admire the CCP's preference for state-issued propaganda. Zaid Jilani, a reporter at News Nation, and Batya Ungar-Sargon—my friend and co-host of The Hill's news show, Rising—both observed recently that China does not grant its citizens full access to TikTok. The Chinese version of TikTok, notes Ungar-Sargon, "kicks off kids after 40 minutes of use, and much of the content is taken up with educational videos about how to garden and how to be a good citizen."
China is run by a government that denies its citizens fundamental free speech rights. It denies them full political rights. It is complicit in genocide. Its COVID-19 lockdowns were among the most repressive in the world. And it has covered up information about the pandemic's origin. The CCP's habit of restricting kids' access to uncensored content and propagandizing them into "good citizenship" is authoritarian; American lovers of freedom should recoil, not seek to emulate this.
We should be especially wary of equipping our own government with similar tools. Today, TikTok—tomorrow, who knows?
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If the U.S. government really wants to counter Chinese tyranny, it should take greater pains not to resemble China's own approach to speech.
Obviously the solution is an app(s) that prevents other apps from accessing "personal data".
That kind of exists in iOS and macOS. Apple now requires apps to not track personal data by default. And it pissed off Facebook and other ad-supported social media companies.
Yet lots of people still use apps that collect their personal data and even voluntarily opt in to sharing that data.
Apple now requires apps to not track personal data by default.
So what happens when iOS installs an app that's up front about accessing your contact list as a requirement for use?
The app has to ask for permission to use the contact list, and you have to opt in.
That part is probably true for Android apps, too. What Apple did that is new (and, like I said, pissed Facebook off) is to require apps to warn you and prompt for an opt-in to do any tracking of personally-identifiable data.
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Sorry to be obtuse, but is the situation that iOS just warns you about the "permission", and if you don't want to grant it you can't obtain the app? That's not the type of meta-app to which I allude.
No, all apps that run on ann iPhone, iPad, or Mac are required to work without collecting personally identifiable information. They can ask you if you want to opt in to the collection, but if you say no you can still use the app.
Thanks! Now we just have to ferret out Apple's (technical) definition of "personally identifiable information".
That’s not an Apple thing. It’s a standard industry term.
A term with many "definitions".
The meta-app would prevent access to anything on the device not actually needed by the app. A navigation app *might* need the device's location; a game app arguably needs *nothing* other than "manual" user inputs. Neither app needs the user's search history or contact list, whether or not these could be considered PII by some definitions.
Gee, how could an apper *possibly* make any money without pillaging data, personally identifiable or otherwise? 😎
While "Apple now requires apps to not track personal data by default", unless they test every program and each update to make sure those apps don't break the rules, there's no guarantee the program won't access personal data the CCP would love to have, in their efforts to blackmail or setup then blackmail people with power and money.
Frankly, we should follow the corollary to the Golden Rule, and treat China the way they treat us: steal our IP, undercut our markets with our tech, and generally play dirty, though we don't need to play dirty as they do or cheat. They don't allow our apps in China, so we should simply do the same to them.
What Robby discusses, is the wrong solution being pushed by elite authoritarians in the government (control over what apps can be used in the US) vs. just a ban on Chinese app use in the USA which is far more libertarian, and limits what the government can do due to the problem: Robby treats it as an inhibition on freedom of speech, rather than the data collecting operation for the CCP it is. Don't you remember tales of loose lips sinking ships or how spy agencies take data from numerous sources (e.g., a CEO defense contractor's movements, and others who were there at the same time) and use it to figure out what's going on.
As for people who want to opt-in and freely give their data to China, they have no idea the potential freedom they're giving up. I'd characterize Robby's article, as encouraging China's ability to spy on US citizens by collecting their data from their phone. US citizens are being blackmailed or paid off to spy for China. And FWIW, that's also often how they steal our IP.
What exactly (no vague hand waving) are you worried about? What is China going to do with information about what videos a teenager has watched?
Have the videos “resurface” in 20 tears when they run for congress on an anti cap platform?
I'm guessing Robby missed all the really horrifying parts of this bill?
"We should be especially wary of equipping our own government with similar tools..."
One thing that is true, is always true, and has always been true: the number one danger to the "American Way of Life," in all its many and diverse forms, is our own government.
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I agree. But don't you agree Robby should have supplied some libertarian solutions to the problem of China spying on so many US citizens, and the danger that creates. Instead he's worried about the US getting into the censorship business, when it's supposed to protect our lives, liberty and pursuit of happiness. Banning Chinese app use in the USA (as they do to us) is the right approach, until we know they don't (and that won't be until they have freedom of speech in China, which I doubt will be in my lifetime, but which I expect will eventually happen.
On the other hand, the aliens watching us may decide the human race isn't worth keeping given the ongoing wars, stealing, cheating and general lack of ethical, cooperative civil behavior, especially among the political elite.
What exactly is this danger? (No vague hand waving.)
Here's a libertarian solution. Check app permissions carefully. If an app won't work without information you don't think it needs, disable or uninstall it. Decide for yourself how much information you're willing to give up, and whether any given app provides enough value to justify it. If enough people stop using apps that hoover up information they're not willing to give up, developers will get the message soon enough.
Stupid tReason, don’t you know about the “China = Bad” clause in the Constitution?
Ben Franklin, our first and greatest President, insisted on including that clause. He could always see the big picture better than anybody.
So China does nothing nefarious? How is it in a world of complete delusion?
Wow, you totally pwned that strawman. Accusing the US government of overreach is not remotely the same thing as being an apologist for the Chinese government.
CCP = bad
communism = bad
And the US Constitution gives the federal government the power to deal with foreign companies and foreign individual differently than with US citizens. Get used to it.
Commerce Clause smash!
The commerce clause has nothing to do with it.
Then what part of Article I Section 8 gives that power to Congress?
You are misinterpreting this issue as one of regulating commerce when it is one of defending the US against a foreign enemy.
We have met the enemy. It's an app on our children's phones.
“Our children are the seeds of the future, and as such, they must be protected from the influences of imperialism and other reactionary ideas. Education is the key to building a strong, socialist society.” – Mao Zedong
“The youth of today are the leaders of tomorrow, and we must educate them in the principles of socialism and Marxist thought. Only through education can we ensure a better future for our society.” – Che Guevara
“The ruling class maintains its power by controlling the education system and shaping the ideas of the masses. The working class must develop its own cultural institutions, including schools, to challenge the dominant ideology and create a new society based on socialist principles.” – Antonio Gramsci
“We must educate the youth in the principles of Marxism and prepare them to take up the struggle for socialism. The old generation is dying off, and the new one is taking its place.” – Leon Trotsky
The CDC reports that children and teens spend anywhere from six to nine hours on screens each day, and new data reveals what apps children scroll through the most.
Cribbage Challenge found that kids spend 113 minutes on TikTok, followed by 90 minutes on Snapchat, 20 minutes on Pinterest and 18 minutes on Reddit each day. I.e., nearly two hours of indoctrination and manipulation by the CCP. That's more attention these kids pay to anything in government schools (which are also heavily influenced by neo-Marxists anyway.)
Yeah. An app is going to do all that. Sure, buddy. Your foil hat needs to be ironed.
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You really are an idiot aren't you?
Two hours a day of targeted political indoctrination are definitely able to manipulate the minds of children. That is actually a lot more than what children used to be subjected to in old-style communist regimes.
Here is an example for Sarc to ignore.
TikTok has been boosting videos to try to influence US policy through fake grass roots systems. In this case it was to reduce US energy growth.
https://thefederalist.com/2023/03/27/why-the-stopwillow-movement-on-tiktok-may-be-a-ccp-influence-campaign/
It’s Sarc, so ‘Orange Man bad’ and trashing republicans Trumps all.
Communism is a fair tale which has never actually existed. Barring some very major changes in human nature, it never will. Whatever they call themselves, the current Chinese government isn't even socialist.
They are closer to fascist than Marxist these days, but numerous countries have tried central planning-the central feature of communism - and it always turns into a shit show.
'... it should take greater pains not to resemble China's own approach to speech ...' Why not? China knows the design of the app and how it operates and has decided it's too dangerous to operate within it's own borders. As the joke goes, '....one billion Chinese can't be wrong...'.
China's reasons for not allowing the app are completely different from the ones being raised in the Congressional hearings: China is concerned about their citizens having too much free speech, not about their privacy being violated.
Some people, often on the left, for years now have ached to rein in the technology business, apparently desiring something like real estate planning boards that would first have to approve all new businesses before they could be marketed. What they’ve observed from China is that it's possible to accomplish.
It's not just the left.
The right definitely wants in on the action.
If that's what they've observed, then they are mistaken. What observation of Chicom and Soviet Russian societies leads me to believe is that it's NOT possible. Of course it's always possible to try, but there has never been a law, even in totalitarian states, that violators have not able to circumvent - frequently in very clever ways - and although it might be tempting to encourage the government to try to become more totalitarian if only for the innovation it stimulates, it still does a lot of harm in the attempt. Also, some people on the right have coveted the authority to "plan" their opposition out of business too.
Ok, I’ll rephrase. Having observed the Chinese try to do it, they are aching to try it out here.
What you say about circumvention is true, but only to an extent Having been involved in some real estate development I’ve seen first hand how the government in some locales uses every trick in the book to stifle building (though there may be payoffs to change their mind). Circumvention would be what? A tent in the back yard or perhaps a Tuff Shed with a bed? Pharmaceuticals and medical devices go through a similar routine. Automakers are burdened with some ridiculous rules. Ditto for many industries. I don’t use Facebook, Twitter, TikTok or Instagram, so I’m not familiar with their workings, but what I do observe as that to the extent they give just about anyone a loudspeaker, the government wants to shut it down, for our own good of course.
It’s an odd system whereby Biden, at best a C- or D+ student, grows up to be someone who claims the right to transform the country.
Biden graduated at the top of his law class.
Source: Joe Biden
Totalitarian states do inspire people to constantly find new ways to circumvent their destructive policies, but that kind of "innovation" is mostly a deadweight loss. People in freer societies have a much better chance to come up with innovations that actually make people's lives better, instead of just undoing damage.
Reason writers regularly lament the confusion over the lines between censorship on private platforms and unconstitutional censorship by government agencies in commentary, and then also itself regularly seems confused about this distinction. TikTok is a private platform (or Chinese sponsored private platform for First Amendment purposes) and can censor whatever content they want to censor. If Americans don't want their "sensitive" information shared with the Chinese Communist Party they should not have accounts with or post on TikTok. Until TikTok violates reasonable American criminal laws, Congress should mind its own business. If TikTok DOES violate a reasonable American criminal law, the FBI should investigate, Federal prosecutors should file charges and, if TikTok is found guilty, punish TikTok like any other convicted criminal.
“Both Republicans and Democrats consider TikTok an addictive service that harms kids, provides a vector for Chinese government propaganda, and captures the personal data of millions of Americans.”
But suggesting that a novel coronavirus may have leaked from a facility that specializes in creating and experimenting with novel coronaviruses … that’s racist!
Yes, the left tried to suppress dissenting opinion by calling it misinformation. However, the right should acknowledge their part in earning that "racist" label by enthusiastically supporting an orange-skinned asshole who kept going around calling COVID-19 things like the "kung flu".
However, she should acknowledge her part in earning that "slut" label by enthusiastically wearing that short skirt.
Oh by the way Episiarch/Bo Cara Esq., Donald Trump never called COVID19 "kung flu". He called it the China Virus. Because it came from........... CHINA. Kinda like Dengue fever or the Spanish Flu.
That isn’t racist, you goddamn progtard. China is a country, not a race.
Juvenile humor like "kung flu" is on the same level of China and the left suppressing viable information? Sure, I guess.
How is "Kung Flu" racist? Seriously. I've seen non Chinese Asians call China worse for unleashing the virus on their soil.
Notice he isn’t answering. Mike is a fucking coward. Just like Sarc,
Meanwhile Facebook and YouTube rub their hands together like Mr. Burns at the prospect of their biggest competitor being shut out of the market.
Facebook should just buy the US subsidiary of TikTok. Problem solved.
And while Facebook is not a particularly nice company, they are still better than a foreign communist government, if not for any other reason than because they are subject to US law.
So it's not what TikTok is doing, it's who they are that is the problem.
That makes a lot more sense.
Do you want all the Reason articles complaining about US companies being used as surveillance against Citizens? Why is it okay when China does it dummy?
No, it is what TikTok is doing, namely giving information on US citizens to the Chinese state and propagandizing and manipulating US citizens on behalf of the Chinese state. The US cannot do anything about it as long as TikTok is Chinese owned. Once TikTok is US owned, the US government can do something about it.
Clear enough?
Yeah, and Russia got Trump elected.
I’m sure that’s what you believe.
Just like you believe that TikTok is a private company independent of the CCP.
You're a gullible fool who believes whatever propaganda anybody stuffs down your gullet.
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Yes, that's much more clear, but clarity here didn't make your comment any better! It's still ignorant and stupid. Unless you like the US government behaving as badly as the Chicom government. Is that what you want?
Unless you like the US government behaving as badly as the Chicom government. Is that what you want?
You can bet that the backroom answer from the politicians involved is a vehement "Hell yeah we want that power!"
At least in the US there are journalists like Taibbi and others generating outrage against the US for censorship and manipulation. Multiple states have also joined in through lawsuits. Citizens have even filed suits against it.
What can you do to push back against manipulation by the Chinese Government?
The US isn't behaving as badly as the Chinese government.
That is why I want social media companies used by children to be governed by US rules, not by Chinese rules.
For all its faults, progressivism, and radical leftism, the US government is not as bad as the CCP yet.
A couple of weeks ago, my wife and I were trying to find a video I had taken of my daughter when she was a toddler and stuck up on YouTube. After banging our heads against the wall, we eventually figured out that YouTube had gone through all my videos and created a separate list of “shorts”, which are any videos under one minute long. WTF…
So, that is YouTube’s lazy-ass way of competing with all the functionality of TikTok: put all videos under one minute long in a separate list, so they are fucking harder to find, call it a day and hit the Google gym.
Dealing with international adversaries is the job of the Federal Government.
How about yesterday? Sanctions against Russians? Confiscation of private property owned by Russian citizens? Sanctions against Iran?
Confiscating property owned by foreigners, imposing restrictions on foreign companies, etc. is something the US government has done for a long time.
Because sanctions on warmongers is the same as banning a company because it's outcompeting the local boys?
Well, let's try to work this out together, little one.
Are those two the same? No, obviously not. So therefore, that's not why people are trying to ban TikTok.
So what could the reason be? Oh, right: it could be that China is a hostile foreign government bent on the destruction of the US as we know it, and as long as TikTok remains a Chinese company, they are subject to the control of that hostile foreign government.
Clear enough, little one?
You make a logical argument, but I don't accept your premises. Even if the Chinese government wants to destroy it's greatest trading partner, which I doubt, this is a pretty silly way to go about it. And last I checked companies that operate in the US have to follow US law.
What laws are TikTok breaking?
Is this retard actually pretending that he doesn't know that the app is spyware?
Him and Mike both pretend that is the case.
And I just linked a story regarding CCP using Tik Tok to influence energy protection and foment US protests against energy projects.
Sarc relies on ignorance for his views. Reality can't fit on his bumper stickers.
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He also thinks we need more laws.
The question is posed to people, not mendacious Canadian Cunts who, upon discovering that the person they thought was impersonating others was in fact being impersonated, bury the information and lie about it.
Ideas!
I posted the links not only under your demand, but under every post you made for several days afterwards.
Most people here can remember and attest to this.
Not only did you ghost the thread that day, but every other thread I posted them in for the rest of the week. Then you declared you're "muting" me, so you could continue to pretend you hadn't seen them.
And yet you continue to pretend that I'm the liar. You're like a fucking cartoon character.
You've never shown a citation for this. ML has.
China doesn't want to "destroy its greatest trading partner", it wants to turn the US into an impotent Chinese client state living under the same kind of authoritarian rule as the Chinese people themselves.
And TikTok cannot demonstrate that they are following US law with respect to privacy because they are partially owned/controlled by the CCP, which is outside US jurisdiction. That is the issue Congress is trying to address. For some reason, you have a problem with forcing TikTok to comply with US law.
Foreign governments are prohibited from spying on US citizens on US soil. Additionally, foreign corporations must comply with US privacy laws and be able to prove that they do so.
Funny, they say they want to destroy us. But your drunk, broken ass knows better.
"Dealing with?" Really? What a convenient form of obfuscation! No, I do NOT want the US government to "deal with" our "adversaries" for many reasons, not the least of which is that I do not accept their - or your! - definition of adversaries. The premise has always been that the US has "vital national interests" outside of our national boundaries. The only legitimate activities the government should engage in is defending the nation against military invasion from outside.
Designating and dealing with foreign adversaries is one of the few legitimate functions of the federal government under the US Constitution. That includes waging war, protecting our borders, imposing tariffs, banning foreign ownership, etc.
The specific designations and responses are determined by our elected representatives.
Whether you "want" that or not is irrelevant. If you don't like it, express yourself through voting or run for Congress.
Designating and dealing with foreign adversaries is one of the few legitimate functions of the federal government under the US Constitution. That includes waging war, protecting our borders, imposing tariffs, banning foreign ownership, etc.
The first two yes. The third, tariffs, are indeed an act of war. As in a self-imposed embargo. As in a state committing an act of war upon its own citizens.
Foreign ownership? I remember in the 80s there was the big Jap scare. Them slant-eyed yellow motherfuckers were buying all the golf courses, and soon they’d own the entire country. That’s a joke now. And in a few decades the “China is buying America” scare will be equally stupid in hindsight.
Tariffs are just a consumption tax, not an "act of war", let alone "upon one's citizens". Seriously, what is wrong with you?
Could you at least try to keep your racism in check?
The concern isn't about China "buying" America, the concern is about China, an malignant and hostile power, indoctrinating US children, and propagandizing and manipulating US adults. And the legal concern is about China violating US privacy laws.
“indoctrinating US children, and propagandizing and manipulating US adults”
Oh, it’s the China Clause in the 1A. Gotcha.
How does it go? If you don't like what China is doing, start doing what China is doing. Something like that.
Another idiotic response to an argument.
I don't see any 1A infringement in anything either the Biden administration or Congress are considering. So that argument has no legs.
Because TikTok cat videos are "CCP indoctrination of children".
There's a lot more than "cat videos" on TikTok. E.g.:
https://www.today.com/tmrw/how-transgender-nonbinary-creators-are-using-tiktok-inform-educate-t224068
What a disingenuous statement. Which means it’s another day ending in ‘y’.
How many TikTok "banning" articles versus Twitter file articles have we seen from Reason now?
It's kind of unfair to ask this under a Robby article, because he's been one of the few to even kind-of-sort-of talk about the revelations, but it's still a valid question.
On one hand there's people who want to ban a Chinese government spyware phone app, on the other there's hard evidence that the DHS, FBI, CIA and Whitehouse Administration created a massive censorship procedure to silence political discourse.
They should both be covered, but from a libertarian perspective the latter is vastly more important than the former. Unfortunately it seems to be the opposite for the Koch management here.
The government has the power to ban tiktok from all government devices and networks. It would be dumb of them not to do so. I don't see how they have the ability to prevent citizens from using the app. I do think they can and should put pressure on the company to make changes, but don't know exactly what actions should be within their power
FYI, it has already been banned on Federal employees’ devices.
"I don’t see how they have the ability to prevent citizens from using the app."
Same part of the constitution that allows mandating masks and experimental vaccines, and stopping student loan payments, and stopping evictions, and closing public accommodations, and putting pandemic patients into general housing in nursing homes.
And causing the bankruptcy of thousands of businesses.
The US government has the ability to prevent foreign ownership of social media companies, or demand that any social media company operating in the US prove that it does not send private US data to the Chinese government, or any of a number of other things. To decide what to legislate in that regard, Congress is holding hearings.
Then, if a company like TikTok doesn't comply, the federal government ceases their assets in the US; that means their servers and their app store accounts. And with that, they have the ability to prevent citizens from using the app.
Good points.
Instead, just arrest every TikTok user as a Communist Chinese spy.
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Speaking of banning things - - - - - - - - - -
The real danger here is that if we lose TikTok we lose libs of TikTok too.
Would have to rebrand as libs of Tumblr.
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The US government is really just upset that TikTok is the one and only App that the US government doesn’t use to spy on people. Tiktok is owned by the Chinese government, and unlike just about any other app, they apparently don’t share information with the US government.
Personally, I vastly prefer the Chinese government spying on me over the US government spying on me. Not because the Chinese government is any better than the US government, but because I’m in the US, so it’s not like the Chinese government can arrest me if they dislike some of the information they find out about me.
That is theoretically a reasonable argument. There are several problems with it.
First, the Chinese government can use the info for generating effective US propaganda, manipulating elections, etc. That is, they get excellent statistical information plus a way to disseminate propaganda.
Second, the Chinese government may get information that is useful for competitiveness and/or military purposes. This can be anything from general demographic information to the security of military bases.
Third, they may be able to find something to blackmail you with into working directly for them. This will not affect a lot of people, but it gives them potential access to large numbers of potential spies in the US.
Government is probably right to ban certain apps from government devices (and to ban certain manufacturers' equipment from government networks). But a general ban is certainly a 1A problem.
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