The New York Times Warns That Freedom of Speech 'Threatens Public Health' and 'Democracy Itself'
The paper is unfazed by First Amendment objections to the Biden administration's crusade against "misinformation" on social media.

Are federal officials violating the First Amendment when they pressure social media companies to suppress "misinformation"? That is the question posed by a federal lawsuit that the attorneys general of Missouri and Louisiana filed last May.
New York Times reporter Steven Lee Myers warns that the lawsuit "could disrupt the Biden administration's already struggling efforts to combat disinformation." He worries that "the First Amendment has become, for better or worse, a barrier to virtually any government efforts to stifle a problem that, in the case of a pandemic, threatens public health and, in the case of the integrity of elections, even democracy itself." As Myers frames the issue, freedom of speech is a threat to "public health" and "even democracy itself."
There is no denying that when people are free to express their opinions, no matter how misguided, ill-informed, or hateful, some of them will say things that are misleading, demonstrably false, or divisive. The First Amendment nevertheless guarantees their right to say those things, based on the premise that the dangers posed by unfettered speech are preferable to the dangers posed by government attempts to regulate speech in what it perceives as the public interest.
Myers may disagree with that calculation or recoil at its implications. But the First Amendment clearly bars the government from banning speech it views as hazardous to public health or democracy. The plaintiffs in Missouri v. Biden, who include individual social media users represented by the New Civil Liberties Alliance (NCLA), argue that federal officials have violated the First Amendment by trying to accomplish that goal indirectly, blurring the distinction between private moderation and state censorship. The government "can't use third parties to do what it can't do," NCLA attorney Jenin Younes tells the Times.
Myers does not buy it. He thinks the private communications that the plaintiffs see as evidence of censorship by proxy actually show that social media companies made independent decisions about which speech and speakers they were willing to allow on their platforms.
Those emails were produced during discovery in response to orders from U.S. District Judge Terry A. Doughty, whom Myers portrays as biased against the Biden administration. He notes that Doughty was "appointed by [Donald] Trump in 2017" and "has previously blocked the Biden administration's national vaccination mandate for health care workers and overturned its ban on new federal leases for oil and gas drilling." In this case, Myers says, Doughty "granted the plaintiffs' request for extensive discovery even before considering their request for a preliminary injunction."
Myers also suggests that the plaintiffs are motivated by dubious ideological grievances. "Their claims," he says, "reflect a narrative that has taken root among conservatives that the nation's social media companies have joined with government officials to discriminate against them, despite evidence showing the contrary."
Although Myers implies that the case and Doughty's handling of it are driven by partisan animus, he notes that "many of the examples cited in the lawsuit also involved official actions taken during the Trump administration, including efforts to fight disinformation ahead of the 2020 presidential election." That suggests the plaintiffs' objections to government meddling in moderation decisions go beyond a desire to score political points.
The emails revealed by this litigation, like the internal Twitter communications that Elon Musk has been sharing with journalists, indicate that social media platforms generally were eager to address the content concerns raised by public health and law enforcement officials. They responded promptly to take-down requests and solicited additional suggestions. The tone of the communications is, by and large, cordial and collaborative.
The plaintiffs in Missouri v. Biden see that coziness as troubling. But Myers emphasizes the exceptions. "The growing trail of internal communications," he writes, "suggests a more convoluted and tortured struggle between government officials frustrated by the spread of dangerous falsehoods and company officials who resented and often resisted government entreaties."
Myers concedes that "government officials" were trying to prevent "the spread of dangerous falsehoods" by encouraging Facebook et al. to delete specific posts and banish specific users. He also concedes that the people running those platforms "resented and often resisted" those efforts. But he does not think those facts are grounds for concern that officials used their positions to shape moderation decisions, resulting in less speech than otherwise would have been allowed.
Myers misrepresents the context of these "government entreaties," which is important in assessing the extent to which they increased suppression of disfavored speech. He notes a June 16, 2021, text message in which Nick Clegg, Facebook's vice president of global affairs, "testily" told Surgeon General Vivek Murthy, "It's not great to be accused of killing people."
In Myers' telling, that remark was prompted by Murthy's conclusion that COVID-19 "misinformation" had resulted in "avoidable illnesses and death," which prompted him to demand "greater transparency and accountability" from social media companies. Myers does not mention that Clegg sent that message after President Joe Biden publicly accused Facebook and other platforms of "killing people" by failing to suppress misinformation about COVID-19 vaccines. Nor does Myers mention that Murthy had just published an advisory in which he urged a "whole-of-society" effort to combat the "urgent threat to public health" posed by "health misinformation," possibly including "appropriate legal and regulatory measures."
Myers also omits something else that Clegg said in that text message: He was "keen to find a way to deescalate and work together collaboratively." What Myers presents as evidence that Facebook "testily" resisted "government entreaties," in other words, is actually evidence that the platform was desperate to assuage the president's anger.
Toward that end, Facebook did what Biden and Murthy demanded. "Thanks again for taking the time to meet earlier today," Clegg said in an email to Murthy a week later. "I wanted to make sure you saw the steps we took just this past week to adjust policies on what we are removing with respect to misinformation, as well as steps taken to further address the 'disinfo dozen.'" He bragged that his company had removed objectionable pages, groups, and Instagram accounts; taken steps to make several pages and profiles "more difficult to find on our platform"; and "expanded the group of false claims that we remove to keep up with recent trends."
As White House spokeswoman Robyn M. Patterson describes it, the administration is merely asking Facebook et al. to enforce "their own policies to address misinformation and disinformation." But federal officials also have pressed social media platforms to expand their definitions of those categories. And according to Clegg, Facebook responded to Biden's homicide charge by "adjust[ing] policies on what we are removing with respect to misinformation."
Myers thinks there is nothing to see here. "The legal challenge for the plaintiffs is to show that the government used its legal or regulatory power to punish the companies when they did not comply," he says. But the companies typically did "comply," and it is not a stretch to suggest that they did so because they anticipated how that "legal or regulatory power" might be deployed against them.
"As evidence of pressure," Myers writes, "the lawsuit cites instances when administration officials publicly suggested that the companies could face greater regulation." In her interview with the Times, for example, Patterson "reiterated President Biden's call for Congress to reform Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, a law that broadly shields internet companies from liability for what users post on their sites." But Myers suggests fear of losing that protection is implausible, because the Biden administration "could not repeal the law on its own" and "Congress has shown little appetite for revisiting the issue, despite calls by Mr. Biden and others for greater accountability of social media companies."
Since scaling back or repealing Section 230 is a bipartisan cause, it is hardly crazy to think that angering federal officials by refusing to "work together collaboratively" would make such legislation more likely. Complaints about unrestrained misinformation would strengthen Biden's argument that "greater accountability" requires increased exposure to liability, and Congress might be more inclined to agree.
Even without new legislation, the administration could make life difficult for social media companies through regulation, litigation, and antitrust enforcement. As Myers sees it, that would not be a problem unless officials threatened the companies with retaliation and then delivered on that threat. That standard would leave the government free to regulate online speech as long as it never engaged in explicit extortion.
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Funny how you progressive cunts were all for this censorship for years on end. What happened you get your nose rubbed in your own shit and couldn't lie to yourself about the obvious anymore? Fuck off Jacob, you'll be back to singing the praises of censorship just as soon as the next proggy jihad is called or there is some Republican to silence.
Free speech threatens liars.
Lying isn’t protected speech.
Criminalize lying.
"Lying isn’t protected speech."
Then you're fucked because every single person here thinks you're a liar.
You can’t even post a link to anyone, especially yourself, refuting anything that I’ve said so anyone claiming that I’ve lied, is themself a liar.
You’re fucked.
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Yo, Nazi dumbfuck, lying is actually protected by the First Amendment.
Which is lucky for you, since lying is all your piece of shit, antisemitic ass does.
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If lying was protected, perjury in court and intentionally breaching contracts aka fraud wouldn’t be crimes, would they dipshit?
Yes they would. Are you really that dense?
So you say that something can be both protected AND a crime.
There’s nothing constitutionality wrong with criminalizing lying then, is there, fuckwit?
Define misinformation. Tell us what you want to criminalize.
And give some examples of recently suppressed information that is, in fact, misinformation. If speech was suppressed, that was not "misinformation", but was in fact accurate, should we criminally charge the suppressors?
What would you criminalize?
Simply, lying. It’s in the dictionary.
1. not telling the truth:
You are lying. Report to prison.
Prove it.
He want's to criminalize saying that the Holocaust happened.
I’ll be satisfied with criminalizing lying and witnessing the magnitude of benefits that result.
No you wouldn't.
Prove it.
Note to foreign readers: This appears to be an experiment to see if it is possible to communicate with Jew-baiting, girl-bullying anarcofascists by speaking their language. Who knows that the outcome will be?
You obviously have strong feelings for me, no doubt inspired by your bigotry or inability to refute anything that I say.
For the sake of your mental health you should recognize that how you choose to feel is your responsibility alone and subsequently has zero effect on anyone else.
You shit your pants for a week a called me a liar after I shared my grandfathers story. Now you’re playing forgetful?
Fuck you, you lying piece of shit.
I’ve challenged you to link to that alleged debate OR repeat it many times.
Every time you cut a run like a coward.
Prove your claim fuckwit or admit that you’re a lying waste of skin.
Well, I think that you're a liar. I can't speak for anyone else.
Your whole crusade against 'lying' is really odd. Especially from a libertarian perspective. The best way to counter 'false' or counter-factual speech is with more free speech, not less of it. Who gets to decide what is 'truth' vs. 'lies' in your paradigm? You? The government?
You are arguing for a system in which your own counter-narrative would potentially be outlawed by the powers that be. In a weird way, it makes about as much sense as your 'Jews faked the Holocaust' beliefs, I guess.
What makes you believe that to be true? You can’t prove what you claim or refute what you deny. That defines you as insane.
The conflict between truth and lies is as old as good versus evil and people have always chosen sides. Civilization is built upon principles that criminalize lying.
The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth is an oath fundamental to the working of the justice system and is supported by the law against lying, perjury. Similarly fraud is a law against lying necessary for commerce.
People need to be proven to be lying to be convicted. If you think that you or anyone else has refuted anything that I’ve said, ever, describe it and post a link. Claiming you can without proving it is lying and constitutes means rea.
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You mean, besides your false Sir Cavendish-Bentinck quotation?
Found it: https://reason.com/2023/01/31/hulus-1619-project-docuseries-peddles-false-history/?comments=true#comments
Great and when anyone interested looks at our debate they will see that your claim of who said what provides zero irrefutable evidence to refute my reference.
That’s what you’ll need to do to call that reference false without lying.
It’s just basic logic. The words you falsely attributed to Cavendish-Bentinck in 1943 (relying on a book which claims to have “revealed” them for the first time in 2014) were published on a website in 2011, in a form which clearly showed that they were actually spoken by disgraced historian David Irving during a speech in 1998.
I don’t know why you’re struggling with this. In any case, there is a difference between making a false claim and lying. I'm starting to wonder about the latter.
You’re struggling with the basic concept that all logic isn’t created equal and yours is poor.
It’s poor because your evidence doesn’t support your claim.
Nothing you provided demonstrates that my reference was “false”.
Thanks for providing the link that demonstrates this. I’m pleased with these optics.
Actually, it pretty resolutely shows you are a liar.
Prove it.
Prove what? It was already proven. Once proven, there is no need to prove it again.
I mean, I know you are a batshit moron, but c'mon, you are getting to the point of needing help chewing with the level of obtuseness you are now exhibiting.
You’ve provided no irrefutable evidence of correctly applied logic or science to support your claim.
Post a link to our debate, so everyone can see your failure.
You are the one who provides literally no irrefutable evidence. The standard for your evidence is some cock sucking Nazi posting a snippet of out-of-context info on the back corners of the internet compared to the rebuttal found in places like the Holocaust Museum.
If you're going to be so demanding about evidence, you need to start with your own. But you won't because you don't care about evidence. What you care about is finding anything that can remotely be used to support your Nazi loving, antisemitic positions. You are the epitome of human trash.
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I missed this little nugget of more of the same poor logic.
You recognize that I have provided evidence. ITS ON YOU TO REFUTE IT.
Do it! Post a link and describe how you’re refuting something that I’ve said. All your irrational emotion aside, if you’ve ever done it, this should be easy for you to do.
"You can’t even post a link to anyone, especially yourself, refuting anything that I’ve said so anyone claiming that I’ve lied, is themself a liar..."
You're too fucking ignorant to understand that you've been handed your hat many times.
Fuck off and die, Nazi scum
Still working at the hat check?
If we criminalize lying, then we'd have to fire Walensky and Fauci as well as impeach Biden. All three made categorical statements about the absolute effectivity of the vaccines at stopping the spread of Covid (despite a lack of any meaningful data to support what turned out to be a completely false premise).
Maybe Biden could get a pass for just parroting what he was told by advisers (the man barely knows where he is half the time, and might not be able to reliably answer the question "Who's the current President of the United States?"), but Walensky has enough of a background in science that she should have understood that none of the vaccine "effectivity trials" actually tracked or recorded transmission of the virus within the test groups, and Fauci (who at one point claimed to be the human embodiment of the concept of Science on Earth) should be expected to understand the distinction between tracking incidence of severe symptoms vs transmission of a virus which was already known to have a relatively high rate of asymptomatic infection.
At what point in the case about the efforts of the government to "control the spread of misinformation" does the extent of the role played by government officials in propagating knowably false claims while simultaneously suppressing/censoring information which turned out to be far closer to the truth and the asking of questions which had provable scientific merit (exploration of the "lab leak" theory, shutting down signatories of the Great Barrington Declaration, any expression of doubt about the effectivity of masks, etc)?
Yeah, probably.
Technically, lying under oath is criminal. But I have seen hundreds if not thousands of instances of this simply being ignored. If judges were to make a big deal of it the court system could grind to a halt and prisons lack room for potheads and jaywalkers. Who, really, expects the truth from looter politicians?
I don't know about Fauci and Walensky, but Biden wasn't under oath when he told the public that "if you get the shot, you can't get or transmit the virus" or that it had exclusively become a "pandemic of the unvaccinated"; also, he couldn't be prosecuted as long as he's in office anyway, and it might be hard to prove he knew that those claims weren't supportable by any available data (or that they would ultimately be proven to be incontrovertibly false).
The two "experts" who do have sufficient education and technical background to have known that their claims were at best unsupported, and who might have also repeated them in congressional hearings and not only in press conferences.
The real point is that the "misinformation" which was supposedly such a treat to the nation and to public health was far closer to the actual truth than the "expert" driven information which was used as the baseline for determining "misinformation" and the supposed justification for censorship of so many hypotheses and questions which have now been proven to have been driving at the actual and verifiable truth.
When people are facing real punishment for lying most will choose truth.
Most crooks are cowards.
If people want honest politicians, they just need to quit electing the most talented liars. Between the media, the political parties, and the voters we've built a system that punishes honesty and critical thinking and rewards dogmatic partisans.
If enough people chose to reject the idea that only that someone endorsed by either the Dem or GOP party leadership could win, such people would start to get elected, and more intellectually honest dealers would seek office if critical thought were no longer a disqualifying attribute in a candidate.
Hahaha. Ask Trump what he thinks about the electoral process.
As long as the potential benefit from lying exceeds the punishment people will lie. That’s human nature.
I could fill pages with what I think about your naïve comment.
Suffice to say for now, once voters find out who they voted for is a liar, they have 4 years of distractions to forget before they elect another.
People do need to choose truth, so why do you object to criminalizing lying like perjury and fraud already is?
You could apparently fill pages making the exact point you're calling naive.
The people casting the votes are the only ones who can decide whether to reward or punish dishonesty, and currently the vast majority of them choose to reward it. The fact that trump could succeed is a symptom of that, not a cause; trump didn't break the system, he played the game according to the rules that the voters currently enforce and the only thing that will ever change that is for the voters themselves to choose to respond positively to something different.
Until the electorate changes and the majority of voters refuse to allow the unelected party bosses to control who's on the ballot, and the majority refuses to accept that they're going to be lied to by everyone "electable", there's no other system of rules or restrictions that will stop dishonest players from working the masses to obtain and retain power for themselves. Until the majority of voters demand a better class of candidate, and stop allowing critical thought to be cast as a "disqualifying" attribute in a potential candidate, we're going to get forced to choose between Biden and trump (or two people of equal or lesser intellectual value). Until the people marking the majority of all ballots refuse to accept what's being offered now, we'll all just keep being told to accept more of the same.
Maybe it's naive to think that's possible within the bounds of human nature. I'd counter that it's more naive to think that there's another solution that would actually bring about material change.
Your logic is poor because your evidence doesn’t support your claim.
Your claim about the electoral process that, “ there’s no other system of rules or restrictions that will stop dishonest players from working the masses to obtain and retain power for themselves.” Is unsupported by ANY evidence.
In fact, to refute your claim, one need only point to the justice system of laws that coerce “dishonest players” to act honestly.
When we add lying in general to the list of crimes in our justice system we will immediately and clearly force honesty upon dishonest players in the electorate and everywhere else.
That’s what all laws do because we don’t just wait for people to choose honesty over crime.
You mean like how the laws against purjury deterred Bill Clinton from denying (while under oath) having had "sexual relations" with Monica Lewinsky?
Or how the law criminalizing making false statements to Congress compelled Fauci to admit that the U.S. NIH provided funding for Bat Coronavirus research focused on making the virus able to attack human lung tissues?
Jack Dorsey testified to Congress that twitter had no policy of "shadowbanning" when he had to have been aware that significant company resources had been dedicated to writing, implementing, and using a sophisticated system of code and algorithms designed to provide exactly that functionality to the overseers within his company. That's illegal already. Still waiting for him to face any consequences for such criminal dishonesty.
You think that my claims that the majority of voters have the power to change how elections play out are unsupported but think that outlawing dishonesty in more widespread conditions than it's already been criminalized will be more successful than the existing laws that are already failing?
Even more naive, you think that laws against general dishonesty will be enforced thoroughly and aggressively when the lying is being done by the same people tasked with enforcing those laws?
How many centuries/millennia of the electoral process will be required for people to choose honesty without coercion?
How much longer will you have to “wait for justice” when there are no laws to support it?
When all lying is criminalized, conspiracies will be much more difficult and risky to coordinate because so many people will be needed to break so many laws.
Not merely one politician with plausible deniability or qualified immunity being questioned by the same.
"How many centuries/millennia of the electoral process will be required for people to choose honesty without coercion?"
It could happen tomorrow if enough people chose to make it so, choice being the crucial concept in that; any kind of coercion of voter attitudes is antithetical to the idea of a democratic voting process. How would you propose to coerce voters to favor honesty without putting the coercive agencies in a position to determine "truth"?
An argument could be made that the modern MSM "news" outlets are in effect coercing (or at least enabling) the public to accept the lies when they're pushing partisan narriatives like "Russiagate" and the "fine people" hoax, not to mention actively stigmatizing and marginalizing critical thinking and skepticism of the false Government narratives throughout the pandemic. In the world you're seeking, what would have stopped the signatories to the "Great Barrington Declaration" from being jailed rather than simply deplatformed on social media, since according to the official line, they were promoting "false" claims? Would you refund the fines levied on people who denied the existence of a trump "pee tape" (once it was revealed that the whole idea was fabricated by a PR Exec on the HRC campaign payroll and fed to the Russian national who then told it to Chris Steele)?
'How much longer will you have to “wait for justice” when there are no laws to support it?'
How long have we been waiting for the laws we already have to deliver justice? How would laws against "lying" provide justice while at the same time empowering the existing authorities to subjectively define what is or isn't "true". To borrow a concept from Orwell, if "dishonesty" is made a crime then where would the tipping point be where enough of the authority structure deciding that 2+2=5 that it becomes a crime to say that 2+2=4?
"When all lying is criminalized, conspiracies will be much more difficult and risky to coordinate because so many people will be needed to break so many laws."
That might be true of conspiracies outside the government, but there'd be little or no risk to those within the system since any whistleblowers trying to expose such conspiracies could simply be prosecuted for "dishonesty" and silenced almost immediately.
Not to mention the potential ways in which criminalizing "dishonesty" could (and at some point in time certainly would) be weaponized to silence all dissent by anyone not on board with the party in power. has there ever been a "political prisoner" in history whose isolation from society hasn't at some point been "justified" based on the danger of their "false claims" against a regime being spread more widely?
When lying is criminalized, one need only ask unambiguous questions for anyone either government or citizen to either tell the truth or break the law or say nothing at all.
Government is not above the law.
When murder is criminalized, people will stop killing others.
When theft is criminalized, people will stop stealing.
When mishandling classified information is criminalized, the SecState won't illegally route thousands of emails containing classified information through an internet-connected non-government operated server. When destruction of evidence and obstruction of justice is criminalized, that same person won't have the server's drives wiped/destroyed to try to prevent any investigation from finding that it happened.
The situational laws we already have against falsehood (perjury, lying to Congress, libel/slander) don't stop people from lying in those situations when it suits their purposes. Government may not be "above the law" in theory, but there's little to no appetite among the people in government to enforce those laws against each other, unless there's some partisan political advantage in doing so.
If the existing laws that we have don't create a deterrent or impose consequences on those who currently lie in covered situations, what evidence could there possibly be that broader (and inherently less enforceable) laws enforced by the same agencies would create any additional deterrent from those who already know they're not facing criminal consequences as it is?
CONGRESS WILL PASS NO LAW
Stupid stormfag.
They pass all kinds of laws fuckwit, like perjury, fraud, etc.
In this thread, Misek the stormfag shows that he's never read the Constitution, and the 1st Amendment in particular.
Prove it.
The 1st Amendment starts with CONGRESS WILL PASS NO LAW.
Quod Erat Demonstrandum.
Congress passed the laws against perjury and fraud didn’t they?
Both speech crimes of lying.
What’s your point?
I just proved that you want to abrogate the First Amendment.
You might think that Only if you think the crimes of perjury and fraud violate 1a.
Is that what you think?
What’s different about criminalizing lying?
Hilarious! Every Democrat and many Republicans will be in prison. Who will grow food for them and be their jailers?
Most liars recognizing that the penalty for lying exceeds the benefit from coercing others will choose to stop lying.
It’s a brave new world.
Actually lying is protected speech. https://mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/1479/united-states-v-alvarez furthermore, there are legal consequences of lying such as libel or slander. However, you can lie and it isn't illegal and the government won't or shouldn't come after you under the color of law to prosecute you for speaking lies about them. If you criminalize lying, you're anti-1A and if you're anti-1A I suspect you are a tyrannical authoritarian fascist.
Tell me something I don’t know. I said that we need to criminalize lying.
Lying is sometimes allowed and sometimes isn’t. Criminals exploit this contradiction resulting in every form of corruption.
How can a justice system that demands an oath of truth before testimony justify lying?
In your example in Kennedy’s “plurality opinion” he tried to justify lying as follows, “sometimes false speech is protected as a way to ensure healthy protection for other expression.”
He didn’t bother to prove his claim with evidence of correctly applied logic or science, it was merely his opinion.
Because it cannot be done. If you can provide an example of lying being the only recourse to other forms of free speech, do it here and now.
Like Roe vs Wade, he was wrong.
Silence from the peanut gallery.
Can we just be honest about who runs the NYT please? These are not nice folks in any sense but folks who have serious old-world grudges and despise America. It wasn't just the Holodomor their reporters denied (Kaganovich and Troysky where heroes to the NYT owners..again if we are being honest). They applauded the lynching of Italian Americans, lied about WMD, have an almost visceral hatred towards any traditional American values, tend to defend degeneracy (Weimar/Vienna 1920 seems to be their cultural model). They applaud destroying the bill of rights for "equity" or "Social justice" or what all that really is..cultural marxism is their goal. The NYT like the WaPo and many other big city cosmo media giants are the real threat to liberty.
Like I’ve repeatedly demonstrated, unrefuted, the lying waste of skin Kol Nidre boys need to experience the criminalization of lying.
“Just like Putin there is virtually almost nothing about Stalin’s origins. Only a small phony white-washed history of Stalin to make him appear as a hero. A lot has been done to cover up Stalin’s Jewishness.
Some things don't lie, as Stalin’s strange condition with his arm, which he told numerous lies his whole life over. Why? Because for Jews in the Eastern regions he was from, his arm was a common genetic defect, like Tay-Sachs disease which only affects Jews. This affliction like many others is common to Jews. Stalin also had another birth defect. He had two interconnected toes on his feet [which he lied again to cover up] which is common to Jews.
Stalin’s place of birth, Gori, was the home of the largest Georgian Jewish population at that time.
Based from what Eastern Europeans had told him who had escaped the Red Terror Maurice Pinay wrote: “In the Georgian language “shvili” means son of, or son. “Djuda” means Jew. Therefore Djugashvili means "son of a Jew". Stalin's real name was Djugashvili
Stalin’s mother was Ossete, from the Khazarian region.” Khazaria was the original home of the Jews in Eastern Europe most of the Ashkenazi Jews are Khazarian. This is why Stalin changed his surname from the original, in order to hide his Jewishness. If it really was just "Steele" in Georgian there was no need to change it.
It was Jews who actually paid for Stalin’s education as a young man.
Stalin also made anti-Semitism the death penalty in the USSR and was behind the creation of Israel in sending the Jewish NKVD down to help along with money and supplies. He was the first world leader to recognize Israel as the Jewish State in the UN.
Just to add here -Stalin married a Jewess, a sister of the Jew Lazar Kaganovich the butcher of millions of Russians and Ukrainians. Stalin was also the third member of the 'Troika' of Kamenev (alias Lev Rosenfeld) and Zinoviev (alias Hirsch Apfelbaum). As for Stalin's home Georgia, was also previously the very same area known as Khazaria.”
"Like I’ve repeatedly demonstrated, unrefuted,..."
You're entirely too fucking ignorant to understand that you've been handed your hat many times.
Fuck off and die, Nazi scum.
The only way anyone here, especially you, could have handed me my hat is if I used a hat check.
You seem way too obsessed with Jews. It seems unhealthy to me.
I recognize that lying is humanity’s single greatest problem. At the root of all others and only getting worse as communication has never been better.
That being said, more truthful communication is the simple and effective answer to that problem.
Anyone who wants to minimize lying is bound to conflict with Jews. As history demonstrates. The criminal behaviour of Jews is the symptom, not the cause.
The Jewish religion which has defined that group of people for thousands of years is based on lying. They claim ownership of Freemasonry, the global secret satanic lying pyramid scheme.
The holiest Jewish prayer on the holiest (gag) Jewish day is the Kol Nidre. It is clearly a plan to lie to other people. Stupid Jews claim that it’s about lying to god but omnipresent beings can’t be lied to. Duh.
This is the Kol Nidre text
“All vows, obligations, oaths, and anathemas [curses]which we may vow, or swear, or pledge, or whereby we may be bound, from this Day of Atonement until the next we do repent. May they be deemed absolved, forgiven, annulled, and void, and made of no effect: they shall not bind us nor have any power over us. The vows shall not be reckoned vows; the obligations shall not be obligations; nor the oaths be oaths.”
You are the biggest lying sack of shit here. You may have convinced yourself of your stormfront beliefs in order to justify your like of Nazis and hatred for Jews, but that doesn't make the garbage, half-assed propaganda you spew correct.
Is this what you call “refuting” what I said?
Hahaha.
Move the reply button
Has anyone at reason been more wrong about more things than sullum?
Funny how you regressive cunts have a very narrow definition of freedom.
Kudos for your truly erudite and thoughtful comment. NOT!
Typical of so many comments on Reason. As I see it, the author is presenting the views expressed by a writer for the New York Times, yet you attack the author as if they are his words. You somehow assume that because they present an article, the substance of which you find objectionable, that the article's author shares a like viewpoint. Agreed that in some instances, Reason authors do present biased viewpoints, but I don't think this one qualifies. If you take exception, it should be with the New York Times author not the author of this article.
https://twitter.com/AtlRey/status/1623813427159347202?t=REbwTK4ieVhEFlH1p-AglA&s=19
Just saw that Biden's SOTU address drew the 2nd smallest tv audience in history. How's that even possible for someone that won the most votes ever?
They didn't fortify the SOTU.
Single, childless, midwit white women don't want you to mention fortification.
Really makes their political theories look stupid...
Obviously, the potential audience was already convinced of Biden’s wonderfulness and didn’t need further persuasion. They can rest calmly in the assumption that the administration is working in their best interests. Watching Biden’s speech would imply that they were skeptical and still needed convincing.
Is it time for common sense newspaper control? Obviously the first amendment was never meant to protect publications with more than 10 pages.
No, the First Amendment clearly protects only the right to print newspapers on wooden screw presses. Why would anyone need to print thousands of papers?
Manually placed letter blocks at most.
American papers get a pass, the NYT is not an American paper but an old world cultural marxist one. Should be shut down as enemy propaganda
That's an interesting claim to make. I'm afraid "American" is a much simpler concept than you seem to think. And in any case, the 1st amendment specifies a limit on what laws can be made, and therefore doesn't protect the free press rights only of people or institutions that are American.
What about newspapers that have a slogan about how to kill democracy?
https://twitter.com/LoganLancing/status/1623748115386736642?t=k-ptQj688L_2qIZ56Dst6Q&s=19
I refuse to live in your manufactured reality.
Just say "No." It's ironclad.
[Link]
Where do you stick a tampon if you have a "period state of mind"? Does it go into the ears? Up the nose?
I'm going to guess "the soul", but for that kind of bleeding I don't think the standard pads and tampons will help. Maybe a bible or a koran or a torah or something might do the trick.
It's my son, Jaime. He's acting like an animal:
https://youtu.be/2AYnz86FK8c
https://twitter.com/WarClandestine/status/1623823556843823104?t=R-0EdV0DqNhPaT30hEAgZQ&s=19
1) HOLY SHIT… buckle-up.
The Biden administration via Dept. of Transportation (Pete Buttigieg), just initiated a political hit-job disguised as an investigation, on @elonmusk and you’ll never guess what they are accusing him of…
Trafficking hazardous pathogens…
[Thread]
That’s Anthony Fauci’s and the Eco Health Alliance's job.
So.... it takes a bit of digging through an article filled with accusations of transporting deadly pathogens to find reality.
The accusation comes from an animal rights group that says implants removed from monkeys (and sanitized) *may have been improperly sanitized* and may have dangerous pathogens like MRSA and Hepatitis.
Which it appears they totally made up. Because you would not do brain implants on monkeys who have dangerous infections. That would be stupid. You would want healthy animals.
And batching a sanitization would be tough. Drop it in a jar of alcohol or other disinfecting agent. Done.
I obviously don't know the details, but the obvious hit piece about the obvious politically motivated hit (DOT is investigating? Not FDA or CDC?) Obvious.
Just like the Nazis: "We demand legal opposition to known lies and their promulgation through the press."
Words and ideas are dangerous
Herr Misek approves.
Is *that* where Misek picked that fetish up? Hunh. Ok, makes sense now.
Fascists are going to do fascism.
The paper that told us that there was no famine in the Ukraine, that the people Stalin purged were guilty of real crimes, that Hitler wasn't really an anti-Semite, that George H.W. Bush was amazed at a grocery scanner, that there were WMDs in Iraq, that Trump was a Russian agent elected by Russian election interference, and that masks didn't/did protect from COVID . . . is in favor of limiting the First Amendment to fight "disinformation".
Well, somebody's confident their enemies will never be in a position of power.
It's likely they're right about that.
That the Tsar never regained power didn't stop a lot of Old Bolsheviks from winding up persecuted.
Don't forget that award winning work of fiction, the 1619 project.
Finally get around to reading the comment section Jacob? We discussed this on a Roundup thread weeks ago.
And have discussed the media pushing this for 6 years.
But NYT will still be a primary source of ENB.
Jacob was unfazed by social media/government censorship even when Psaki was bragging about it from the white house podium. You think he reads the comments? It's not clear to me that he even proofreads his own rants.
I will at least give them credit for being open about the leftist totalitarian world they are shooting for.
More fascist than just ordinary leftist. They'll use the Marxist-Stalinists but they're all about corporatism, and racial theory rather than class theory.
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"New York Times reporter Steven Lee Myers warns that the lawsuit "could disrupt the Biden administration's already struggling efforts to combat disinformation."
I don't think anyone can seriously dispute the fact that the New York Times and Washington Post are anything other than official party organs of the DNC anymore. No different than Pravda or Izvestia.
Both are great for information that doesn't touch on politics, social issues or anything the Party doesn't care about, but the second they do they're feeding you pure narrative.
Their science coverage is awful too. As are their literature, art, and music sections.
Enlighten us further.
If you knew anything about science, art, literature, and music and read the NYT, it's self evident. If you don't, I can't enlighten you.
There is no denying that when people are free to express their opinions, no matter how misguided, ill-informed, or hateful, some of them will say things that are misleading, demonstrably false, or divisive. The First Amendment nevertheless guarantees their right to say those things, based on the premise that the dangers posed by unfettered speech are preferable to the dangers posed by government attempts to regulate speech in what it perceives as the public interest.
Amazing sullum writes the above but makes no such response to how incorrect the government was and how the misinformation was actually the correct information.
I wonder if he realizes that he's talking about the New York Times there?
Or himself.
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.
Thomas Jefferson
That the government imposes false information is of course one of the dangers posed by "government attempts to regulate speech in what it perceives as the public interest".
I thought the NYT was little more than an arts and culture zine, these days.
If you think that Piss Christ is high art, then I suppose the NYT and WaPo are “arts and culture zines”.
Personally, I view them as cheap drop cloths and cat box liners.
If a man builds 1,000 bridges in his lifetime and sucks one cock, he will forever be known as a cocksucker and not a bridge builder.
If Tony sucks 1,000 cocks in his lifetime and builds one bridge, will he forever be known as an idiot.
Thats a weekend for Tony.
'He worries that "the First Amendment has become, for better or worse, a barrier to virtually any government efforts to stifle a problem"'
Yup. And unless you agree 100% with the current administration and with the NYT, you are the problem they want to stifle.
Serving as a barrier to government efforts was sort of the whole point of the Bill of Rights.
Myers also suggests that the plaintiffs are motivated by dubious ideological grievances. "Their claims," he says, "reflect a narrative that has taken root among conservatives that the nation's social media companies have joined with government officials to discriminate against them, despite evidence showing the contrary."
This is the insane bubble these progressives live in.
The censorship that isn’t happening is necessary and good for society.
> As Myers sees it, that would not be a problem unless officials threatened the companies with retaliation and then delivered on that threat.
If I point a gun at you and say "give me your wallet or I'll kill you" and you give me your wallet, then I really haven't done anything wrong because I didn't shoot you.
The media companies have their own First Amendment rights to censor speech on their own platforms. Understood?
So if they freely decide to go along with the government's "suggestions" about what they should censor, they are still exercising their own First Amendment rights. They cannot lose their First Amendment rights simply because the government asks them to censor the same speech they also want to censor. Consequently, the only way to know for sure if the media companies are being coerced is to ask them. Presumably, they know their rights as well as their interests just as well as anyone else does.
Moreover, they cannot be punished for exercising their First Amendment rights (in "conspiracy" with the government) simply because their exercise of those rights coincides with the government's attempts to violate the First Amendment rights of others. Punish (or, rather, stop) the government from doing that, by all means, but punishing the media companies for exercising their First Amendment rights (or for being coerced by the government) is itself unconstitutional.
If the government, absent a search warrant, "persuades" some local tough to enter your house and search your belongings for evidence of a crime, and then that person decides to give that evidence to the government, it doesn't matter whether he might have done it otherwise.
Once the government is using any kind of pressure (and it truly cannot act without pressure) on a company or individual, that person becomes a joint state actor and is subject to the same restrictions as the government.
In other words, once the government requests, pays, or threatens a private company to act in a way that violates the constitution, the private company cannot then do it.
Simple solution is to stop the government from making such requests.
"...based on the premise that the dangers posed by unfettered speech are preferable to the dangers posed by government attempts to regulate speech in what it perceives as the public interest."
Um... no?
This may take a bit to explain, but I'll do my best.
It's predicated on the idea that you are a human with rights that exist independent of any legal writings of man. The writings either violate the right or codify the right and the right itself is not predicated on any sort of "balancing" or "testing" of potential costs/benefits.
Oh... sorry. It wasn't that hard. Not sure what that says about people who don't understand it.
The only freedom of speech allowed will be your preferred pronouns.
And by "free", we mean everyone will be forced to use them.
Not everyone
https://twitter.com/WarClandestine/status/1623844377914212353?t=rm7bY-LpgbqoC12tL2LZQg&s=19
1) Do you all remember WHY @MittRomney accused @TulsiGabbard of committing treason?
Because Tulsi spoke out about the US funded biolabs in Ukraine.
[Link]
Tulsi is the best one trick pony in politics.
She is SOOOOOO right about foreign affairs and literally has the worst position on everything else.
And the establishment wants her destroyed.
Where do their priorities lie?
Why?
Where is the oversight over money the weakest?
Connection?
She's gotten better on some things. Forget what else she came out strong for (anti vax mandates? tranny bs?) but a couple months ago she was talking some very absolutist pro 2a positions. Complete 180 from her time in the DNC on that one.
She was WEF, but I think they might have revoked her membership.
Who knows what's what though.
She's kind of all over the map, but if the Establishment hates her she's probably on the right track.
The strongest of endorsements these days.
Not infallible, but a good sign.
"she was talking some very absolutist pro 2a positions. Complete 180"
I must have missed the new stuff. I don't trust such conversions unless they come accompanied by earnest, believable public renunciations. Like Naomi Wolf's documented journey to the red pill.
Koch aims to shut down PV...
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/fierce-backlash-project-veritas-sidelines-james-okeefe-after-pfizer-bombshells
The board of directors of Project Veritas on Wednesday placed its founder and chairman, James O’Keefe, on paid leave as it reportedly moves to oust him from his leadership position.
The organization’s executive director informed employees of the news via an internal message that said O’Keefe would be taking “a few weeks of well-deserved PTO,” according to NY Mag’s Intelligencer.
Widespread reports of a hostile takeover point to a more insidious long game at play, with the move coming after two bombshell undercover video reports from Project Veritas that showed a Pfizer research scientist discussing the company’s gain-of-function work to maximize vaccine profits.
Why Koch?
Is Veritas a Koch vassal?
Koch controls the money through Donor's Trust
The NYT is a joke. The sooner everyone realizes that the better. And this is not a new development. It's been a joke for decades, maybe a hundred years.
From Walter Duranty and likely before that.
They still have the best lefty writers, but they don't even pretend to be liberal any more.
Well, to the NYT the First Amendment is only about the freedom of the press, with the press being established news media corporations.
Although if one party is against the First Amendment, and the Second, and the Tenth, and the Electoral College, and the Senate, and Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution, and the other party is protesting for election integrity, which party ought to be called the insurrectionists?
Their support for the 4th and 5th is surprisingly hit-or-miss and/or self-serving as well.
the nation's social media companies have joined with government officials to discriminate against them, despite evidence showing the contrary
AFYKM?
And Vivek Murthy is such a two faced bitch that he should be holding elected office.
The New York Times Warns That Freedom of Speech 'Threatens Public Health' and 'Democracy Itself'
No need to wonder whether the NYT supports the opinion of Justin Trudeau.
Coming soon to a government near you.
I really didn't think the NY Times understood anymore that there is a big difference between Freedom of the Press and Freedom of Speech.
Now if they could just get a handle on why press freedom requires them to identify their sources and to attempt to verify the accuracy of what they say ... unlike "opinion news" which is just plain old speech that may be full of deliberate inaccuracies.
"New York Times reporter Steven Lee Myers warns that the lawsuit "could disrupt the Biden administration's already struggling efforts to Distribute disinformation.""
The biggest lie is Democrats support democracy. This is dictatorships pure and simple.
Back when Warren Harding sat in an editor's chair with an underage girl in his lap, counties had a Republican and a Democrat newspaper. Whichever rag's boys won the election got the contract for publishing public notices paid for out of tax revenue. This kept non-Kleptocracy outsiders quiet. The internet hit this censorship system like a Doomsday Machine against which not even Nixon's anti-Libertarian law afforded protection. So guess who's yelping?
I’ll take “Gaslighting” for $1000, Alex.
NO
The premise that the First Amendment is based on is that the government HAS NO RIGHT TO REGUILATE SPEECH AT ALL
That the regulation of speech IS tyranny
Hear hear. Now do the Second. I’ll pour for us both.
Can we dump this recent, stupid affectation where the Surgeon General wears a military-style uniform?
And while we’re at it, also dump the Public Health Service Commissioned Corps, which was the excuse Surgeon General C. Everett Koop used to start sporting one.
Aside from the whole thing being silly, the combination of a medical doctor’s built-in arrogance compounded with delusions of military-style authority is outright toxic.
PS: Bashar Assad, Radovan Karadzic, Papa Doc Duvalier: all medical doctors.
Yeah, that would be nice. What a goofy affectation. Did someone not realize that the "general" in Surgeon General is an adjective and not a military rank?
Thank you. Now do "Attorney General." So tired of toadies referring to them as "General."
It's not a recent affectation, stupid or otherwise. I found pictures of Surgeons General all the way back to Walter Wyman, third in that office from 1891 to 1911, who wore the Public Health Service military-style uniform.
He should be Surgeon Private.
Fascists have always loved uniforms.
Another millennial sheep who never reached adulthood. His ilk is breathtakingly stupid.
Myers gets to the heart of the fundamental differences between socialists and free people. The New York Times espouses the fundamentally socialist point of view that “the people” are subjects of the government and that the common good requires all people to do what is best for “society” at all times. In order to achieve this situation, they have to overturn and eliminate the founding principles of the United States that start with a free people constituting a government with limited authority – granted BY the people – to achieve certain goals for the common good; namely equal protection of the rights of all people under the law. Since there is no other definition of the common good that socialists can substitute for this founding principle without redefining the people as subjects of some nebulously defined “society” they have to get rid of the notion of people having inalienable rights. Since "public health" (whatever THAT means) is a handy excuse for locking some people away in their homes to protect the health of everyone else, it fits right in with their agenda.
The New York Times
Warns That Freedom of Speech'Threatens Public Health' and 'Democracy Itself'There is a clear attack against the 1A. The NYT should be and used to be a pioneer in the freedom of speech. But now that woke cult worship in the form of Cultural Progressive Intersectional Woke Social Justice cultism is now the norm, all bets on freedom of speech are off the table. Any heretical speech that refutes the public health officials like Anthony Fauci ala Faucism who is now a discredited liar that sacrificed his entire career on COVID-19 lies, can be labeled by leftist state-sanctioned news entities like the New York Time Pravda Division as heretical lies, misinformation, and disinformation.
They are now the arbiters of truth in the vein that President Persona Non Grata wanted to begin the ministry of truth. No need for that when the entirety of the leftist print, social, and tv media are ready, willing, and able to carry that tank of water on their backs all day long. While they themselves will lie for the betterment of their ideology because that's all that matters and if the 1A is struck down or diluted or attacked, all the better.
Because if the 1A falls, all that is left is the 2A and this regime and the nameless, faceless bureaucrats that do their bidding need to hurry up and get that repealed or neutralized asap so that the hoi peloi don't rise up and teach them the lesson of what happens when government and their apparachiks can decide who the heretics are. These people are going to create a sizable population with nothing to lose and we know how that works out. Hope their heads are all on swivels and that their personal security agencies are all paid up.
Sickening to see how the narrative is set to control the masses. The same NYT paper would have touted differently if Trump or any Republican would have been in power.
Amendment I
*Congress* shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
The 1st Amendment only applies to government. Just thought all the 'rights' yell-ers should know. Those that have used the powers of government to curb any speech should be brought up with charges for violating the people's law over them. The rest; not so much.
The First Amendment did not create the right to freedom of expression. It only prohibits the government from violating that right. One does not need to be acting on behalf of the government to violate the rights of another.
"The growing trail of internal communications," he writes, "suggests a more convoluted and tortured struggle between government officials frustrated by the spread of dangerous falsehoods and company officials who resented and often resisted government entreaties."
Many of the men who conducted the trains to concentration camps had serious ethical compunctions. And yet the trains never failed to arrive on schedule.
Leave it to current progressive media and elites to actually try and argue that fundamental rights and protections against authoritarian despotic rule, are really threats to ("their" OC) democracy. Insanity!
If the First Amendment requires our society to tolerate rampant unchecked lies, including foreign propaganda, to influence public policy and citizens' brains, then that's points deducted from the utility of the First Amendment.
Deontological conservatards can't get it through their small brains that we are not put on this earth to follow the rules handed down from Daddy. We are here to figure out what works. If my whole town dies from some preventable disease because anti-vaccine bullshit dominates all sources of public information, then fuck your free speech rights. You should be censored.
Tony and Misek stand together for censorship.
If my kid's education goes to shit from some mask mandate because mask misinformation dominates all sources of public information, then fuck you.
The only “threats to Public Health' and 'Democracy Itself'” come from people like those at the NYT.