Labyrinthine Zoning Rules Restricted Homeless Shelters During the Pandemic
As COVID-19 spread across the country, complex rules around land use and building permits made housing the poor and vulnerable effectively impossible.

When Interfaith Sanctuary purchased an old Salvation Army building on State Street near downtown Boise, Idaho, in early 2021, it seemed like a dream come true. Everything about the property made it a perfect fit for the nonprofit's new emergency homeless shelter.
The only thing the organization needed to turn that dream into a reality was a conditional use permit from the city. That required talking to the neighbors. And that proved to be a problem.
The visceral opposition of nearby residents to Interfaith Sanctuary's shelter plans turned what should have been a permitting process of a few months into a bitter conflict that stretched out for over a year and put the entire project in jeopardy.
"We are stuck," Jodi Peterson-Stigers, the executive director of Interfaith Sanctuary, told Reason in February. "All of these hopes and dreams are written. The architects have designed the whole thing. We have a contractor. We have complete estimates. We have a security team. We have everything we need to move forward except for the conditional use permit."
The loss of the new shelter building would be a real blow to Interfaith Sanctuary and the people it serves.
Even before COVID-19, the organization had been bumping up against the limits of what it could do with its existing cramped emergency shelter. The sudden appearance of a deadly infectious respiratory virus didn't help the situation.
"We use every nook and cranny and this pandemic has made it very difficult," says Peterson-Stigers. The shelter had to slash its capacity from 164 people to 140 just to allow some modicum of social distancing.
A temporary influx of federal homeless funding, however, allowed the heretofore privately funded Interfaith Sanctuary to house those displaced from the shelter at a rented out Red Lion hotel. Soon enough, it had placed over 100 people there.
Being able to give people their own rooms where they could stay 24/7 was a huge blessing, says Peterson-Stigers. The range of health care Interfaith Sanctuary could provide to ailing, elderly clients expanded dramatically. Guests weren't having to roam the streets all day. Parents didn't have to raise their kids in a crowded, dormlike setting.
The improvements she saw in people's health and well-being sent Peterson-Stigers looking for a new, larger shelter location that could support the same number of people and level of care after the outfit's temporary federal funding dried up. In early 2021, Interfaith Sanctuary purchased the Salvation Army building and surrounding two-acre lot for $2.4 million. It was a bargain then. The city's white-hot real estate market makes it a practical steal now.
The building itself was three times as large as its current shelter, meaning the organization would be able to give families and hospice patients their own rooms. It was close to downtown, which meant it was close to the people it serves and the services they need.
Most importantly, it was one of the few available properties in the city whose zoning allowed for an emergency shelter. All the nonprofit needed was that conditional use permit, and then Interfaith Sanctuary could get to work on the remodeling.
In Boise, and most of the rest of the country, obtaining a conditional use permit requires applicants to notify nearby property owners of their plans, go through a public hearing, and secure the approval of the local zoning board. The process gives the neighbors a lot of opportunities to complain, which they did in Interfaith Sanctuary's case.
Peterson-Stigers says the initial neighborhood meeting on the permit application was a disaster. People said that the shelter would bring drug users and criminals to the area. Parks would become overrun. Kids wouldn't be able to play outside.
Interfaith Sanctuary agreed to more rounds of public engagement. These eventually morphed into a city-sponsored task force intended to study the appropriateness of the organization's planned shelter site.
In January 2022, neighborhood opponents managed to derail the project entirely by convincing Boise's Planning and Zoning Commission to deny Interfaith Sanctuary's permit application. The organization was forced to appeal to the city council. After a marathon set of hearings over multiple days in late April, the council voted 4–2 to approve the shelter. That was a victory for Interfaith Sanctuary. But it doesn't give the organization back the time it spent waiting for permission to perform its charitable work.
The pandemic has posed a special challenge for homeless shelters, the people who run them, and the people who stay there. Crowded indoor shelters seemed almost designed to increase COVID-19 transmission. Many shelter residents chose to live on the streets instead.
In response, many of America's churches and charitable organizations looked for safer ways to provide housing. Some of these efforts were aided by emergency pandemic funding from the federal and state governments. Yet even when one arm of the state was lending a helping hand, the other was bringing down the hammer on private parties trying to help the most vulnerable.
No comprehensive counts exist of how many homeless people died during the pandemic or how many died of COVID-19. Cities that do track these figures saw homeless deaths increase anywhere from 50 percent to 300 percent.
As the pandemic swept across the country, churches and other social organizations wanted to move quickly to help people find shelter. But labyrinthine rules around land use and building permits made doing so incredibly difficult, and in some cases effectively impossible. Zoning fights and permitting delays are often downplayed as unimportant burdens on well-heeled developers. But this was something else entirely: a direct threat to the poor and vulnerable.
Missing the Point in Time
In early April 2020, one of San Francisco's first serious COVID-19 outbreaks swept through the city's largest homeless shelter, Multi-Service Center South. Of the 150 people staying or working at the shelter at the time, 70 tested positive for the virus.
"Unfortunately, we have a situation that we knew could potentially happen in one of our congregate living settings," said Democratic Mayor London Breed at an April 10 press conference. But, she argued, "we know it could have been worse."
Multi-Service Center South had a maximum pre-pandemic capacity of 340 people. In the weeks prior, the city had already been in the process of moving residents out of the shelter and into private hotel rooms where the virus would have less of a chance of spreading. Other residents, per the San Francisco Chronicle's reporting, took matters into their own hands and moved out onto the streets.
Activists criticized Breed for moving too slowly to get people out of the city's shelters. Yet San Francisco's experience was fairly typical.
At the very beginning of the pandemic, there were few tools available for preventing the transmission of COVID-19. Federal ineptitude meant masks and tests were in short supply. Vaccines were still on the drawing board.
That meant the country relied on social distancing to stop the spread—a challenge anywhere, but especially in homeless shelters that typically packed many people into congregate, dormlike facilities.
Public health regulations gave shelters little choice. Complying with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's social distancing guidance meant some shelters had to reduce their capacity by as much as 50 percent. Others closed completely. The result was a sudden "decompression" of the existing, pre-pandemic shelter system.
In January 2020, 82.6 percent of traditional facility-based shelter beds nationwide were occupied. By January 2021, at the height of the pandemic, the occupancy rate had dropped to 71.4 percent. Where did all those people go?
One answer is that they simply moved out onto the street. "Clients regularly reported that they preferred to remain unsheltered rather than congregating indoors due to a fear of contracting the virus," says the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) in its 2021 Annual Homeless Assessment Report.
We'll never know how many people lost shelter altogether. HUD, citing health concerns, waived the requirement that recipients of federal homelessness funding perform "Point in Time" counts of the number of unsheltered people in their jurisdiction.
Another answer is that they moved into hotels and motels, often funded through government aid. The March 2020 $2.2 trillion Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security (CARES) Act included a massive $5 billion bump to federal homelessness spending. The bulk of that, $4 billion, was poured into HUD's preexisting emergency solutions grants program.
The Federal Emergency Management Agency also issued guidance allowing its "public assistance" grants to be spent on providing "non-congregate shelter."
Some of the state and local organizations that received these funds devoted a good chunk of them to renting out and staffing up motel and hotel rooms. The near-total collapse in business and tourist travel had left the hotels largely vacant, and individual rooms allowed people to isolate.
By late June 2020, California's Project Roomkey—the first large-scale effort to turn hotels into housing for the homeless—had placed over 10,000 people in hotel rooms.
Using individual rooms also relieved some regulatory red tape. Peterson-Stigers said that the private settings allowed Interfaith Sanctuary to provide its clients at the Red Lion hotel with hospice care—something the group couldn't do in its congregate shelter because of federal medical privacy regulations.
Other guests benefited from not being outside and exposed to the elements all day. Instead, they had a safe and secure place to store their things, and a fixed address to travel to and from appointments. Parents had a much easier time enforcing rules or putting the baby down for a nap.
Once again, data on how many hotel rooms were used as homeless shelter space are spotty. HUD reports 33,259 of these voucher beds were in existence in January 2021, more than double the number that existed in 2020. But not every jurisdiction included its hotel beds in the count of available shelter beds it reported to HUD.
These voucher beds ended up housing 11.3 percent of sheltered homeless people in 2021. But they didn't absorb everybody coming out of a decompressing shelter system. Another 6.5 percent were housed in "other beds" located in churches and other facilities not traditionally used as shelters—a 15 percent increase from 2020, according to HUD.
It's likely a lot more people would have been sheltered in these nontraditional arrangements had it not been for the obscene amounts of red tape placed on churches and charitable organizations trying to give someone a warm bed for the night.
No Good Deed
The primary reason Boise's Interfaith Sanctuary purchased its State Street property was the potential it offered the organization to scale up its charitable work. The larger building and surrounding lot would allow it to provide more services to more people.
But that scale would become a focal point of neighborhood opposition. As the approval process dragged on, opponents of Interfaith Sanctuary's new location suggested an alternative. Instead of one big shelter, why not scatter several smaller ones around the city? That way, Interfaith Sanctuary could provide more focused care to shelter residents while reducing the impacts on the neighborhoods the shelters were in.
This alternative plan turned out to be impossible to implement. In response to the controversy its shelter plans had kicked off, Interfaith Sanctuary had agreed to a request from Boise Mayor Lauren McLean to delay its permit application so that a "Better Shelter" task force—made up of city staff, neighborhood representatives, and homeless advocates—could be assembled to vet alternatives.
At one meeting, task force facilitator Jen Schneider, a Boise State University professor of public policy, presented a spreadsheet of 56 possible alternative shelter sites identified by a city-commissioned real estate survey.
Schneider noted that only four of Boise's 24 zoning categories, covering about 7 percent of the city's zoned land, allowed for shelters. That meant only 17 of the 56 potential shelter sites the city's survey had turned up were viable.
Only five of those 17 properties were the right size to host a shelter, and three of those were already in the process of being bought by other parties. That left two properties available: a vacant lot behind a Walmart and another empty parcel owned by the county highway agency that wasn't for sale.
Both were inferior to the property that Interfaith Sanctuary already owned. To acquire them, the organization would also have had to buy at the top of Boise's booming post-pandemic real estate market. That's a tall order for a privately funded nonprofit.
Boise's city limits encompass 85 square miles. That there were only three feasible properties that could play host to a homeless shelter underscores just how difficult it is for churches and nonprofit providers even to find land where their charitable work is allowed.
A sudden, massive influx of federal funding and the near-overnight collapse of business and tourism travel made the housing of homeless people in hotels during the pandemic possible. This still wouldn't have been practical without equally rapid zoning reforms.
The National Alliance to End Homelessness praises states such as California and Oregon for running model hotel-to-shelter conversion programs. The success of both programs, the organization notes, required legislation exempting these conversions from normal zoning regulations. Private parties trying to serve the homeless outside of state and federally funded or administered programs often had to contend with the full realm of land use regulations.
Making matters worse is the fact that homeless services often don't fit neatly into the uses permitted by a city's zoning codes. They aren't quite commercial activities. They're not residential either. Churches and charitable nonprofits were often blindsided by zoning officials' determination that their shelter or soup kitchen wasn't allowed to operate on their property.
Take the case of Free Methodist Church in Gloversville, New York. In the months before the pandemic, the church had worked to convert a former YMCA building it owned in the city's downtown into a cold weather shelter.
In February 2020, however, a city official informed Free Methodist Pastor Rich Wilkinson that the YMCA building's commercial zoning prevented it from being used as a shelter.
The trouble was that Gloversville's code was silent on whether cold weather shelters were allowed in commercial zones. This kicked off a two-year back-and-forth between Wilkinson and the city.
Wilkinson argued that a shelter was similar enough to commercial zone-compliant rooming houses and hotels that it should be allowed. This argument failed to move officials who voted against issuing his church a permit. They also denied his church's application for a zoning variance.
These delays didn't make Gloversville's weather any warmer. Anyone looking to escape the sub-zero temperatures of an upstate New York winter was forced to migrate to surrounding counties where shelter was available.
"All it is, is a line in the city code that is keeping people from sleeping in the warmth," Wilkinson says. "It's ridiculous to me that anybody would allow people to sleep in the cold when there's a place where they could come inside and get warm."
St. Timothy's Episcopal Church in Brookings, Oregon, faced similar pandemic care hurdles. For decades, the church had provided free meals two days a week alongside other religious congregations in town. When the pandemic hit, those other churches shut down their soup kitchens. Not St. Timothy's. The church's pastor, Bernie Lindley, decided to expand the church's meal service to six days a week to pick up the slack.
The expanded number of days that the church was serving meals and the fact that it was the only soup kitchen left in town soon turned it into something of a gathering place for the area's homeless and indigent. At the city's urging, the church also agreed to host a "safe parking" site where people with nowhere to sleep except their vehicle could legally park overnight. That brought even more people around.
This all boiled over into a conflict with St. Timothy's neighbors. In April 2021, 30 Brookings residents sent a letter asking the city to "reconsider allowing vagrants to continue to live and congregate at St. Timothy's Church."
In response to that petition, city staff did some research. They discovered that soup kitchens—by virtue of being regulated by state health authorities, like commercial restaurants—had actually been prohibited in the city's residential zones all along. And all churches in Brookings, including St. Timothy's, were in residential zones.
In October 2021, the Brookings City Council passed a new ordinance allowing organizations to provide "benevolent meal service" two times a week in residential areas, provided they get a conditional use permit.
On paper, this ordinance legalized soup kitchens that were otherwise prohibited by the city's zoning code. In practice, it meant that the Brookings City Council was imposing new requirements on the church's heretofore unregulated meal services.
"What we're doing is what churches do. Churches feed people," Wilkinson told Reason in November 2021. "To tell a church that they have to be limited in how they live into the Gospel of Jesus Christ is a violation of our First Amendment right to freely practice our religion."
In January 2022, the Episcopal Diocese of Oregon—with the help of the Oregon Justice Resource Center and the law firm Stoel Rives—sued the city of Brookings. The pending lawsuit argues that the city's ordinance violates the religious liberty protections of the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment and the federal Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act. Wilkinson's Free Methodist Church also has an active lawsuit against Gloversville.
Both are examples of churches whose charitable activities were made illegal on technical grounds. Following the letter of the law didn't stop other shelter operators from being dragged through hell.
Just Four Parking Spaces
Long before the pandemic-caused exodus from the shelter system, the Silicon Valley community of Palo Alto, California, had a large, obvious unsheltered homeless population.
"In a place like Palo Alto, where condos start at $1.5 million, there's literally someone who's living out of their car or on the street on every single block, in every single neighborhood," says Chris Kan, a genetics researcher and Palo Alto resident. "It's a problem everyone in the area knows and everybody wants to do something about."
For that reason, Kan's Unitarian Universalist Church of Palo Alto (UUCPA) and other religious organizations lobbied the city to pass a "safe parking" ordinance that would permit willing churches to devote their parking spaces to overnight stays by vehicles and their owners.
In January 2020, the city council unanimously approved an 18-month pilot program letting churches set aside up to four safe parking spaces. The idea was to start off slow. If things worked out well, the city could consider allowing nonreligious institutions to host safe parking sites, and potentially permit more than four cars as well.
The program passed just in time for the pandemic. But just because these safe parking sites were legal didn't make them easy to set up.
Unlike neighboring cities with safe parking programs, Palo Alto's ordinance required churches to get a special permit to open one. City officials had the power to reject a permit application if they thought a parking site would adversely affect surrounding residents' health, safety, and welfare. An approved application could also be appealed to the city council, which is exactly what happened to Kan's application.
He says his church was ready to file an application at the beginning of 2020. The pandemic disrupted those plans. City offices, like most workplaces, were closed down or went remote. City staff suddenly had responsibility for administering a lot of new emergency programs.
This delayed things for months. Eventually in February 2021, the UUCPA had its application accepted. In May, it received provisional approval from Palo Alto's planning director.
Instead of starting the operation, however, that approval just led to more delays. In June, the low-income senior living facility next door—ironically built on land donated by the UUCPA in the 1960s—appealed the permit.
That kicked off more rounds of public engagement, which got heated quickly. Kan says some of the opposition they faced was from people with a misunderstanding of how the site would be managed and who would be allowed to stay there. Those folks, he says, proved reachable. Others were flatly opposed.
"Palo Alto, on a 'not in my backyard' scale, is probably a nine out of 10," he says. "There was honestly just a group that, come hell or high water, weren't going to agree to it no matter what we did. That was just a political reality."
With the help of groups like the NAACP and the League of Women Voters, the UUCPA was able to rally support and get its application approved by the city council in October 2021. Its safe parking site is operational today. Kan says it's mostly been at capacity since it started.
That was a happy ending for the UUCPA and the people the group is now serving. But it came almost two years after the safe parking program was first approved.
"This is literally four passenger cars," says an exasperated Kan. "It's four people in four cars that's in the back of a parking lot that's being professionally monitored by social workers and police."
The sheer amount of process that cities layer onto the provision of homeless services is certainly burdensome. It's often unreasonable. It can even be unconstitutional, says Diana Simpson, an attorney with the Institute for Justice.
She references the U.S. Supreme Court's 1985 decision in City of Cleburne, Texas v. Cleburne Living Center, Inc., which struck down a local requirement that hospitals serving the "feeble-minded" obtain a special permit.
Regulations have to be a rational means of pursuing a legitimate governmental interest. And in Cleburne, the Supreme Court decided that requiring special permits for a hospital just because it was serving the mentally ill wasn't rational. Rather, the Court determined that the permit requirement at issue was motivated by prejudice against the disabled, and, therefore, was a violation of the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment.
"Land use decisions have to be about the use, not the people," explains Simpson.
Theoretically, the Cleburne decision should provide significant protections to people trying to set up facilities servicing the homeless. But time and again, the discretionary processes of governments heavily geared toward public input often mean that those homeless shelters receive more de facto scrutiny than would a similar use, such as a hotel.
"The problem with this conditional use requirement, and this repeats all over the place, is neighbors don't want it. The town gets shy and says you can go somewhere else, but there's nowhere else to go," says Simpson.
The Institute for Justice has sued on behalf of several homeless shelters that have been denied conditional use permits—recently winning one case in North Wilkesboro, North Carolina.
Despite Supreme Court precedent, these lawsuits are typically an uphill battle. Lower courts give extreme deference to a government's rationale for its regulations. Simpson says that the courts have also generally treated Cleburne as a unique one-off decision that's not neatly applicable to similar cases.
Shelter providers themselves are sometimes loath to sue—either for lack of resources or a fear of souring their relationship with a local government they have to interact with on a daily basis. The result is that the rights of homeless service providers, and the people they serve, are often ignored.
Nowhere To Go
On the most immediate level, the months or years churches spend getting permits or securing a scrap of land where their charitable work is legal is time they're not spending on their missions.
The people they would have fed or sheltered during that time have to look for help elsewhere or go without it. The time and resources they do sink into getting permission comes at the expense of productive work they could be doing.
The opportunity costs of that lost time were particularly acute during the pandemic when so many people were in need.
"We could have helped elderly folks who were isolated because of the pandemic," says Kan. He estimates the UUCPA spent a thousand volunteer hours just getting its safe parking permit. "We could have worked with kids who didn't have the best internet. There were a lot of programs we could have put that energy into."
Excessive regulation also suppresses organizations' willingness to provide shelter and other services to the homeless in the first place. Palo Alto's safe parking ordinance was backed by a number of city churches interested in participating in such a program. Most looked at what the UUCPA went through and said "heck no."
The chilling effects of discretionary, public input–heavy approval processes also come with a personal cost. People just trying to do good have to face a lot of vitriol and opposition from their community.
"There's no escaping this conversation in this town," says Interfaith Sanctuary's Peterson-Stigers. The zoning fight didn't stop the nonprofit's day-to-day work. But it did take an emotional toll, transforming efforts to help the needy and the vulnerable into a bureaucratic slog that put the organization at odds with the government and much of the community. "I hate the work that I'm being asked to do right now that feels very political."
Rent Free is a weekly newsletter from Christian Britschgi on urbanism and the fight for less regulation, more housing, more property rights, and more freedom in America's cities.
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Grades are racist.
I am properly shamed yet again.
Unless the grades are weighted by race, gender, and class.
I stand corrected, only bad grades are racist.
Bad grades for oppressed peoples are racist. Bad grades for dominant people are righteous academic equity justice.
This guy knows how to woke.
Thank you sir/madam/honored other.
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.
For more details visit:>>> https://brilliantfuture01.blogspot.com/
We live in Brookings, Oregon, for half of the year. St. Timothy's is great, yet the homeless encampments they encouraged are a legitimate problem in a residential area.
People pay taxes and part of that is for public order and a safe neighborhood for children to play, without derelict, post-incarceration, deranged drug users milling around. Food and shelter should be available, in all communities. yet it need not be in expensive local real estate.
We were burglarized by addicts who left a trail of needles after watching us, breaking into our home while we were out to dinner, and stealing $16,000 worth of of possessions from us and our houseguest.
"Food and shelter should be available, in all communities. yet it need not be in expensive local real estate."
Better to have that food and shelter for the homeless in the inexpensive real estate areas, right? Those poor people ought to be grateful they have shelter in the first place.
If government is using tax payer money to help fund shelters, it indeed should be done cost effectively. If a charity wants to buy and maintain expensive land have at it. But that's not what is being done.
I agree. I was poking fun at this whole "Oh for sure we should be providing shelter and aid to people...just not near me."
It is the same as Britschgi's article. He wants homeless sheltered, and is happy to tell local communities how bad they are for declining to have them sheltered on their block.
Non-expensive areas doesn’t imply residential areas.
You beat me to it.
Seems to be saying the poors should be forced to bear the consequences of upper class policy/virtue preferences.
A shelter on Pelosi's front yard would be ideal.
There is a weird push by activists and journalists to shame people for pointing out the crime and trash associated with homeless encampment.
https://mobile.twitter.com/bigblackjacobin/status/1535285937357344770
Edward Ongweso Jr
@bigblackjacobin
Teamed up with
@jason_koebler
to write about how much rich people in LA let pure hatred for homeless people shape their politics. It's disgusting, depressing, and worrying.
These camps endanger and trash values as you say with many in these camps thinking they own where they camp publicly. It is a strange condition that we are being told to ignore issues of homelessness.
This on top of NY government normalizing and making fentanyl and heroin use cool is a weird change in the narrative.
Yes. Homeless encampments don't help anyone. And this shaming of people is absurd. I noted the other day that I have a friend in SV who has essentially lost the use of his back yard because there is a homeless encampment right on the other side of his fence sandwiched between his property and the sound-barrier for the adjacent road.
Can you imagine reading that article you linked, then looking out the kitchen window and seeing some asshole shoot up by your back gate? He can't let his daughter play out in their own back yard any more. They can't have people over for a dinner in the back yard. They had to install a lock bar on their back door because people will just go nuts on drugs and try walking in and opening the fucking door in the middle of the night.
These fucking journalists passing judgement when they don't have to deal with it every day. What a fucking joke.
And this shaming of people is absurd.
Jesus Christ, a Jewish rabbi, was shamed, tortured and crucified by Jews. That the Left gleefully shouts "crucify / cancel" him /her, gives us all the metrics we need to shun these modern day Immoral Majority types.
Seems appropriate to modern day progressives.
John 8: 42-45
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me.
Im a cradle Catholic and recall all too well how the liberals castigated Catholicism for dogmatic teachings, infallibility, the notions of sin, heaven and hell, excommunication, and the Inquisition. Now that they have shrunk the church's influence, it is instructive they enjoy waging their own Inquisitions and proselytizing their own dogmas.
Indeed. Progressivism is a religion, so it makes sense. But the irony is lost on them.
I mean, something was going to fill that power vacuum and many progressives were busy scribbling notes about how they would run each of those things if they ever got the chance.
This is nothing new: socialism/fascism has been intended by its advocates to replace religion since its inception.
My house is about half a mile from a wash overran with homeless, so I see them constantly and have seen the destruction that comes with.
The neighbor across the street got up to go to work a few weeks back to find a heroin junkie in the back seat of his car shooting up.
Tell your friend to start tossing stink bombs in the back of his yard.
Geez, your neighbor should just move to an elite gated community for the coddled pajama class.
I found that moving to a place with cold winters is sufficient.
I lived in San Francisco decades ago, about half a block from an Episcopalian cathedral (Bush and Franklin? A long time ago.) They fed the homeless at 6am. The homeless started lining up hours earlier, of course fighting and shitting all over the neighborhood. The priest at the cathedral was a fraud; lived in a ritzy district, owned a Mercedes, but drove a clapped-out station wagon to the cathedral.
I learned a lot about the so-called homeless from that period. A lot of them wanted to be homeless. They did not want to spend the nights in shelters unless it was cold. They did not want jobs, but they wanted free food, free drugs. I remember especially some of them screaming how they were human, they deserved their own houses, not merely beds in a shelter and soup kitchen food, not even an apartment; they deserved their own houses.
The mentally ill who actually deserved sympathy and food and shelter were just show pieces to the bums and the homeless advocates.
Only 150 more days until the midterms, and the day can't get here soon enough.
Another day, another record worst Real Clear Politics polling spread for Sleepy Joe Biden at -15.5%, and his approval rating is rapidly approaching a dismal 39%:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html
Now let's see if the Reason staffers put in any work today using their myriad of sockpuppet accounts!
Biden is awesome, he deserves credit for the amazing economy, Putin is sad because he no longer has a puppet in the White House, inflation is a wingnut.com myth, 1 / 6 was exactly like 9 / 11, and I guarantee that approval rating is wrong.
#TemporarilyFillingInForButtplug
Why can't people see how great Joe's economy is?
Things are expensive now because everyone is rich.
Well, see this is the $100 libertarian problem. It is great to abstractly support things like property rights supremacy, but at the end of the day, there are real costs to your neighbors if you decide to turn your house into a meth den, strip club and/or homeless shelter.
In general I think these things should be handled at the very local level. If you are going to fundamentally impact specifically your neighbors (not people across town), there needs to be a mechanism for addressing that. A potential way to address this privately is with covenants (like HOAs) and/or with contractual obligations to support collective property values. For example, I might be willing to permit my neighbor to convert his house into a speakeasy if he guarantees to cover the loss in my property values.
Essentially, what this means is that it will be more expensive for people to use their property in ways that damages the property value of their neighbors. Which...you know...is pretty libertarian.
When you abstract this to a national level, it comes off as incredibly detached and arrogant. "Those damn NIMBYs! How dare they object to vagrant fentanyl addicts walking their kids to school each day!" In any libertopia, the likely equilibrium is that you get neighborhoods banding into HOAs that would disallow homeless shelters. Because no one wants to plonk down a significant share of their life savings on a property that could halve in value because a neighbor decides to turn his plot into a land fill.
Yes there are, and not all external. No residential home owner will do any of those, because (1) residential streets and parking won't support any of those, and (2) the homeowner would be throwing away his money.
They are unrealistic scenarios and don't need regulation to prevent them.
In a libertopia, any homeowner who won the lotto and decided to turn his house into a strip club or meth den would be sued into oblivion for all the crime and congestion he introduced.
In statist regimes, governments mandate inappropriate behavior and are immune to corrective lawsuits.
It should be obvious which one is better.
In a libertopia, any homeowner who won the lotto and decided to turn his house into a strip club or meth den would be sued into oblivion for all the crime and congestion he introduced.
What would be the basis for the lawsuit? Presumably in libertopia, strip clubs and meth dens would be legal establishments.
Abolish zoning.
Because no one wants to plonk down a significant share of their life savings on a property that could halve in value because a neighbor decides to turn his plot into a land fill.
So basically socialized price control of property values on the downside - but don't dare mess with the socialized subsidy of property prices on the upside.
Yep - that's the free market libertopia at work
"...So basically socialized price control of property values on the downside - but don't dare mess with the socialized subsidy of property prices on the upside..."
Rely on the smug ignoramus JFree to come up with truly eye-rolling strawmen.
Up yours with a running rusty chainsaw, JFree.
Being able to turn your home into a nuisance to your neighbors is how things work in a progressive society.
In an actually libertarian society, residential neighborhoods are governed by HOAs and CCRs voted on solely by property owners, and nuisances are not tolerated.
I knew the Biden Era would be awesome. I just didn't know it would be THIS awesome.
Reason.com's benefactor Charles Koch just made $14,100,000,000 in one day.
Not 14 million. That's 14 billion with a "B."
#BillionairesForBiden
He needs the money. Can you imagine how much it costs to fill the tank in his limo?
Is that a "B" as in BidenFlation?
Just think what he could have done under TrumpFlation!
#TrillionairesForTrumpFlation
So no layoffs at Reason?
People ask the wrong questions. They ask "What are the causes of homelessness?" as if having a home is the default. That's like asking "What causes poverty?" as if being rich is the default.
The correct questions to ask are "Why do so many people have a place to live?" and "What causes the creation of wealth?"
The answer to the first questions are "Let's take wealth from others and spread it around as we see fit" while the answer to the second are "Get out of the way and let people create wealth, then the pie will grow for everyone."
I guess it's a no brainer why people prefer the former over the latter. The latter gives them no power.
Well, you’re definitely an expert on the subject.
Did you pop the pimples on your juvenile face before or after you came up with that zinger?
I thought you had better things to do today?
Ideas!
It’s not my fault you were homeless.
In B4 he claims that you're making shit up and lying about him.
sarcasmic
January.17.2022 at 10:11 am
I was homeless for a half a year.
https://reason.com/2022/01/17/you-cant-solve-homelessness-by-making-it-a-crime/?comments=true#comment-9308808
Well, you can't solve homelessness by making it a crime; but you can solve homelessness by making it a crime and enforcing the law.
Bursa Arslan Evden Eve Nakliyat, ucuz ve kaliteli hizmet sunmakta ve bu alanda bir numaradır.
site: https://www.bursaarslanevdeneve.com/mustafakemalpasa-evden-eve-nakliyat/
Bursa Arslan bir çeşit fahişe mi? Bir BJ için ne kadar?
Exactly.
Eşcinsel bir transseksüel fahişe, şüphesiz.
Everyone in the WH is just ridiculous.
"What we're trying to say is that the economy is in a better place than it has been historically,” White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre told reporters. She added, “We feel that we are in a good position to take on inflation.”
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/white-house/white-house-talks-up-historic-economy
If they were clever they would have blamed it all on Covid, instead of pissing on us and saying it's a gentle rain.
If they were primarily trying to avoid blame, sure. But doing so would be an admission that current conditions are bad/undesirable.
But their primary motivation is to establish this as the New Normal, the status quo.
What the administration is saying is to submit and be grateful for what they allow you, because they will make it worse.
Gonna get much worse. The empire is broken. But we can still rearrange the deck chairs.
She answered sincerely. This is what they want.
Biden was installed to be the kamikaze pilot who destroys the American working/middle class and establishes the shit (feudal) economy, with ridiculously (intentionally) high fuel costs, as status quo (The New Normal).
It's going to get worse.
Biden will be tossed aside, under the bus, when the people get rowdy... but the conditions will remain. The hope is enough people will be fooled into passivity using him as scapegoat.
You will own nothing, and be happy (because if you're not happy and do something insurrectiony like protest or post mean tweets, your assets will be confiscated and you'll be indefinitely jailed or killed).
At least if you get indefinitely detained you’ll be able to eat?
Well sure, if by "historically" they mean 500 years ago, sure, 99.999% of the population is better off now.
Baghdad Bob approves.
Commanders coach fined 100k for daring to ask "what about the riots during the summer of 2020."
https://www.dailywire.com/news/washington-commanders-coach-jack-del-rio-fined-for-comments-on-george-floyd-january-6-riots
Once something has been memory holed, you're not supposed to bring it up again.
"NFL defensive coordinator Jack Del Rio has been fined $100,000 by the Washington Commanders for his recent comments comparing riots following George Floyd’s death to the January 6 Capitol riot.
“Businesses are being burned down, no problem and then we have a dust-up at the Capitol, nothing burned down and we’re gonna make that a major deal,” Del Rio said, answering questions about his tweet...
“(Coach Del Rio’s) comments do not reflect the organization’s views and are extremely hurtful to our great community in the DMV,” Rivera commented. “As we saw last night in the (Congress) hearings, what happened on the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, was an act of domestic terrorism. A group of citizens attempted to overturn the results of a free and fair election, and as a result, lives were lost and the Capitol building was damaged.”
Del Rio’s comments and the ensuing fine come as the Democrat-led Select Committee on January 6 began its hearings Thursday night."
Absolutely insane. Completely fascist.
Opposition opinions are dangerous.
I'm more torn on this. Businesses have a right to shut down political speech that reflects back on their businesses. If you own a business and your employees are acting as representatives of your company and espousing political opinions, you absolutely have the right to discipline them and distance yourself from that content.
The tweet is clearly free speech. The problem is being interviewed later about it, as he's being interviewed in his capacity as a coach, representing in an organization. If he says "No comment" and then gets fined, that's suppressing free speech. But instead he goes on the record while wearing gear of Washington Football Team, so he's their representative, speaking in an official capacity.
Not certain if he implied that was the organization’s stance, more likely just his own.
When you're being interviewed in your capacity as a coach of a football team, you're acting as an agent of that organization. And if you're a football coach, it sucks, but you need to realize that most people really don't give a shit about what you think about anything unrelated to football. If they're interviewing you, it's not really about you, it's about your association with a football team.
And just because I don't like the stance his employer is taking doesn't mean I think his employer shouldn't be allowed to take that stance. I'd rather they say "Well yeah, he's got a point about that," instead of fining him, but they're valuing the predominant media narrative and don't think the Summer Of Love can be criticized.
"...When you're being interviewed in your capacity as a coach of a football team, you're acting as an agent of that organization..."
Posted a link to the story in the Roundup; natch, Joe Asshole is accusing me of hypocrisy since it is a private organization/business. 'Natch, Joe Asshole is full if shit; nowhere was there a hint that it should be illegal to do what the team did, only that the team seems obviously full of woke twits.
“I want to make it clear that our organization will not tolerate any equivalency between those who demanded justice in the wake of George Floyd’s murder and the actions of those on January 6 who sought to topple our government.”- Ron Rivera
That would be true if Commanders head coach Ron Rivera didn't make an even more political speech when announcing the fine.
Rivera said, “(Coach Del Rio’s) comments do not reflect the organization’s views and are extremely hurtful to our great community in the DMV...
As we saw last night in the (Congress) hearings, what happened on the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, was an act of domestic terrorism. A group of citizens attempted to overturn the results of a free and fair election, and as a result, lives were lost and the Capitol building was damaged.”
He explicitly justified the fine by saying that it was because Del Rio contradicted the Democratic Party narrative. Not because coaches represent the organization.
I'm going to assume that Rivera's speech actually lines up with the organization's views, though. That's the thing. The organization is allowed to control what its messaging is. Given the controversy, I'd be shocked if Ron Rivera himself wasn't saying that explicitly based on Orders From Above.
They didn't fire Del Rio. If owned a company and some of my employees were making controversial political statements (let's pretend Del Rio was being controversial) in some official capacity, I'd probably fire them. I have the same attitude about all political opinions coming from athletes and coaches-I'd rather they didn't because they generally don't know what the fuck they're talking about, and I'd prefer to keep sports separate from politics. So yes, I hate Rivera getting political as well, but then, I haven't watched the NFL in two years because fuck them for bowing to BLM in 2020.
"I'd be shocked if Ron Rivera himself wasn't saying that explicitly based on Orders From Above."
I wouldn't be. Nobody wants to paint a target on their head by contradicting a believer like Rivera. Plus Snyder isn't the only owner. It's owned by a group who I imagine have all sorts of opinions.
The point of all this is to create a chilling effect. Nothing more, nothing less.
Here was what Ron Rivera said.
“I want to make it clear that our organization will not tolerate any equivalency between those who demanded justice in the wake of George Floyd’s murder and the actions of those on January 6 who sought to topple our government.”
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-football-nfl-was-idCAKBN2NR1S1
He said both.
What a complete fascist he is.
His employer is worried about a backlash from radical left wing youths. If you have a highly paid corporate job with a lot of visibility, you have to watch what you say. That's not "fascist", it's just a business decision.
Whether this was actually a good business decision in the long term remains to be seen.
Sarc hardest hit.
https://legalinsurrection.com/2022/06/prices-for-alcohol-are-rising-nationwide/
It's an acquired taste, but hand sanitizer is widely available.
A helping of Steno would solve his family's problems and one of ours.
Time to dust 9ff my still
PICTURED: Maryland concrete plant worker, 23, who shot dead three co-workers and injured two others after working a full shift
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10906051/Suspect-Maryland-concrete-plant-shooting-employee-working-day-shooting.html
Meanwhile JesseAz stays up all night afraid someone may go on a murder spree at the strawman factory.
Cite?
It would really help for you to learn what a strawman fallacy is. You misuse it constantly. It is pretty funny as you think incorrectly shouting fallacies makes you look smart.
Hint. Pointing out your hypocrisy is not a strawman.
Please do learn what a strawman actually is.
That's funny. You don't point out hypocrisy. You make shit up and argue against it.
Master baiter. Strawman slayer extraordinaire.
Have fun. I've got better things to do with my day than roll in the mud with pigs like you.
Posting your past comments is making shit up. Lol.
Keep stating that. Just makes you look stupid.
1. Learn what strawmanning actually means and how to use it.
2. You're constantly hypocritical. You were with me twice yesterday.
Ideas!
You would think that over the last few days he is arguing from ignorance calling others liars or creating strawman when in reality he is simply ignorant with no intellectual motivation to understand issues he argues about. A few days ago he did it here:
https://reason.com/2022/06/08/seditious-conspiracy-charges-for-proud-boys-taint-january-6-prosecutions/?comments=true#comment-9533144
He called others liars despite it being his ignorance on the issues. This is despite people talking about the j6 prosecutions for over a year with glaring examples of political abuse.
Yesterday he accused the Michigan rep of assaulting an officer despite the charging documents and video being made public.
It is like the media going after the Covington kids despite the full video showing he did nothing. Or him saying it sucks Rittenhouse was found not guilty despite a near full timeline video existing.
He is arguing from ignorance more often than not. But the last few days he has tried throwing out fallacious arguments against those he is arguing with often misusing them.
"Yesterday he accused the Michigan rep of assaulting an officer despite the charging documents and video being made public."
No. I pasted a link and a quote from an article on the Daily Mail.
But keep on making shit up and arguing against it. It's what you do best.
I stated that. What you didnt do is bother finding out facts like reading the actual charging statements.
Are you capable of at least reading before you post?
You deliberately lied as you falsely said I made an accusation that I didn't make, and then argue against the lie.
That's a textbook strawman.
Please go away and stop shitting up the place. The only reason you're not on mute is so I can refute your lies. But maybe I should put you back on. You are the reason it was created, by the way.
I thought you had better things to do today? Price of alcohol hit home already?
What lie? Be specific. Because I linked the charging documents. Or do you mean the 20 year non violent charges for j6? Because you admitted to being ignorant.
Giving you correct information is not a strawman dummy.
Link to the supposed lie.
BRING BACK THE
ENEMIESMUTE LIST!Lol.
Damnit, Jesse’s back to #1. The homeless jokes just don’t rate like they used to.
You have to use those when he is on edge. He pretends they don't exist otherwise.
Yesterday he accused the Michigan rep of assaulting an officer despite the charging documents and video being made public.
No, the government accused a Michigan gubernatorial candidate of assaulting a police officer. And you never presented the video that purports to claim otherwise.
No. An FBI agent did. The charging statements did not.
Why are the cops the only ones you and sarc seemingly blindly support?
Likewise the video exists sea lion. The charges were brought forth because of public crowdsourcing of said video to identify people.
Stop being a sea lion.
the video exists
You keep saying that but you never produce it.
The link you were provided tells the whole story. About the video. How it was crowd sourced.
This argumentation of yours is hilarious.
You base your counter arguments on absolutely zero information then demand others provide you all evidence. Despite your assertions being citation free.
You are given links daily which you ignore constantly such as the link yesterday to charging documents which also explained the video. The video exists as you admitted yesterday to watching some of it in which you said you saw no assault. Yet you persist with the lie he assaulted officers despite the video YOU watched and the charging documents.
Youre a sea lion.
orf!
Orf! orf!
Either:
1. The video exists, and it shows exactly what you claim it shows, and why you wouldn't simply present a link to it is a mystery.
2. The video exists, but it doesn't unambiguously show what you claim it shows, and so you want to conceal the actual video but retain the claim of a video as "proof" of your claim.
3. The video doesn't exist, you really don't give a shit, this is all just a big game to you, and you would much rather just throw around insults and names.
My bet is on either #2 or #3.
Time and time and time again
- you sealion a well known occurance or self evident thing
- everyone ignores you
- you start crowing that well known occurance or self evident thing isn't real because everyone is ignoring you
- I break down and post multiple cites demonstrating they clearly are
- You either ghost the thread or pettifog
Just as a heads up, what's it going to be if I give you a link? Are you going to ignore it or lawyer it?
He ran away from my request yesterday of him admitting to being a sea lion if provided yet another link.
A Thinking Mind just posted video links down below.
It's a bit of a waste of his time though because Jeff will ignore them or lie about them, and then tomorrow pretend that they were never posted... as will sarcasmic.
It's a bit of a waste of his time though because Jeff will ignore them or lie about them,
Since I just did neither of those things, are you going to apologize now for falsely claiming that I would?
So, no cite from collectivistjeff of course.
Jeff, are you going to admit you're a sea lion yet?
You spent two days pretending easily found videos didn't exist.
You spent two days pretending easily found videos didn't exist.
This is a lie. Only above did I hypothesize that it might not exist, but I never flatly stated with certainty that I believed the video didn't exist at all. This entire time I was asking you to provide a link to the video that you did know existed and you had the link for.
Why didn't you provide a link, Jesse? If not for my benefit, then for the benefit of everyone else reading?
Only above did I hypothesize
Pathetic excuse mongering.
Will you admit you were wrong to question their existence instead of 5 minutes of intellectual curiosity to find them... given you had a link that had the charging documents in them provided?
Do you yet understand why you are called a sea lion and why people are tired of your self maintained ignorance?
Do YOU understand, Jesse, that when you referred to "the video", you were not at all clear that you were referring to that video that was referenced in the charging document?
I can't read your mind. Which is why I asked for a link. I honestly did try to search for the video. But I didn't really know what I was looking for because it was supposedly a video of Kelley NOT assaulting a police officer. So how do I know which video is that? It could be almost anything.
You were not clear. You did not communicate well. And instead of clarifying what you meant, you decided to throw a tantrum and use it as an excuse for more trolling and insults.
- you sealion a well known occurance or self evident thing
Like what? Where a specific video is among the billions of videos on the Internet among dozens of possible platforms? I honestly did do a Google search and I found a video of Kelley shouting "THIS IS WAR BABY" as he climbed the Capitol stairs, but I didn't find any video of him assaulting a police officer, or even interacting with a police officer. And now that I have seen the actual video, I doubt I would have even recognized that it's the one I was supposed to find, since that one does not show him assaulting a police officer. So when you or Jesse say "go find it yourself", what am I supposed to do?
And BY THE WAY. I am not even supposed to have to try to find proof to support YOUR claim. It's YOUR CLAIM! The obligation to support your claim rests on you, not on me. I was performing a courtesy by even trying to search for it in the first place.
So, in reality, this means:
Jesse/ML: makes unsupported claim
Me: What is the basis for your claim?
Jesse/ML: GO FIND IT YOURSELF, YOU SEALION!
Sorry not sorry, that is not my job to prove your claim. It is your job to prove your claim.
ALSO. You do realize that not everyone reads the same news sources that you do, right? It's pretty evident that you and Jesse and a bunch of others follow a common set of right-wing social media personalities and read from a common set of right-wing media sites. I don't. I'm not going to waste my time wading through a sewer of right-wing garbage posing as 'news'. So some claim may be "self evident" in your little media bubble, but it may not be "self evident" to everyone else. Has that ever occurred to you?
They have these things called search engines sea lion.
Let's back this up just a bit. They tell you there's no video of him assaulting a police officer. You complain that you can't find the video where he "doesn't" assault a police officer, even though that would be basically every video, since there's not one. If there was one, you'd probably be able to find it by searching for video of him assaulting for a police officer.
Beyond that, how hard is it to look for the actual charging document? It only occurred to me to look for that today. Now it did take about 10 minutes since I had to sift through like 8 stories that were talking ABOUT the charges that didn't include a link to the charging document (fuck the media, seriously), but still, 10 minutes to actually find it once I got into my mind to start looking.
And then you come back and ask for someone to post negative evidence for you. "Show me the video that definitely shows where he didn't hit anyone!" That's insisting they try to prove a negative, even though you believe there's evidence out there, somewhere, that you haven't seen.
It's okay to admit to ignorance sometimes. I half expected to see evidence of sketchy contact, like him being in a crowd as officers were pushed out of the way, and some sort of incidental contact of him against the officer. I literally didn't know what evidence there was because I'm not in Michigan, don't really give a shit about this guy, and had not been following the story. I didn't use my ignorance as a starting point to get into arguments. I didn't positively assert anything or even discuss it until I'd looked into it a bit more.
Yes, let's back up a bit.
You can see the exchange starting here:
https://reason.com/2022/06/10/the-january-6-hearings-may-be-surprisingly-worthwhile/?comments=true#comment-9537812
Jesse and others kept referring to "the video". I asked for a link to that video, whatever it was that they were referring to, whatever it showed. I never asserted either way that he definitely did or did not assault the officer. Because I honestly didn't know! I was trying to decide for myself.
It honestly did not occur to me to look for the charging document, because I was looking for a video, not a document. So I learned something new today about web searching. Thanks for that.
This whole saga consumed way too much time and could have been entirely avoided if Jesse had just provided a link to the video as I asked, instead, he preferred to engage in his little performative theater of insults and name-calling.
Keep spinning Jeffy. It’s amusing.
"Because I honestly didn't know! I was trying to decide for myself."
Lol, fuck off. You're not tricking anyone.
It's the truth. Sorry not sorry that you cannot handle the truth.
And then you come back and ask for someone to post negative evidence for you. "Show me the video that definitely shows where he didn't hit anyone!"
For emphasis: I never did this.
Did you see the link in that thread to legal insurrection which discussed the video and charging documents dummy?
You mean this one?
https://legalinsurrection.com/2022/06/fbi-arrest-michigan-republican-gubernatorial-candidate-ryan-kelly-raids-home/
This story does not contain a link to the charging document, nor to the video referenced in the charging document.
You admitted to watching portions of the video yesterday dumbfuck.
Is this sea lion 400 level?
I thought I was losing my mind when I kept seeing people use "sealion". Australian Ocean? Canadian waters? San Diego sea lion population?
dahyum
...
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Sealioning
Sealioning
A subtle form of trolling involving "bad-faith" questions. You disingenuously frame your conversation as a sincere request to be enlightened, placing the burden of educating you entirely on the other party. If your bait is successful, the other party may engage, painstakingly laying out their logic and evidence in the false hope of helping someone learn. In fact you are attempting to harass or waste the time of the other party, and have no intention of truly entertaining their point of view. Instead, you react to each piece of information by misinterpreting it or requesting further clarification, ad nauseum. The name "sea-lioning" comes from a Wondermark comic strip.
Apt isn't it?
Wondermark kicks ass.
so am I supposed to send money for this education? I just researched Wondermark. Neat!
sea lion? LOL
No charge, the first one is free.
A sea lion often plays dumb, attempting to get their victim to fall into a script that they have carefully crafted a rebuttal to. Online debates are often tedious and they tend to fall into certain patterns. College sophomores spend a great deal of time diagnosing those patterns and learning to rebut them so they can look smart in debates. Often the rebuttals are neither fair nor focused on the main point under debate. However, the sea lion is always ready for the unsuspecting fool to play along.
A sea lion is often characterized by attempting to move the argument back several steps or by refusing to accept an assumption the other parties have agreed upon. Rarely does the sea lion state that this is his tactic, but attempts to drag the conversation back to his own presuppositions. Often the sea lion is arguing about elementary level concepts when the conversation is on advanced topics that build on a common set of elementary assumptions already agreed upon.
Sometimes the sea lion is unaware he has presuppositions. There is an army of ignorant online warriors who seem to be unaware they have a worldview. All reasoning must be done on their terms, because they and only they have rightly reasoned from first principles to final conclusions. They represent truth and all difference in opinion represents a tainted deviation of their truth. This sort of sea lion asks the Christian to prove God when the Christian is debating theories of the atonement. (Let the Christian recognize that of course the atonement is silly and unnecessary if there is no God.) But the sea lion is oblivious that the faith assumption there is no God requires as much suspension of disbelief as any other faith assumption.
Well. At least now I have a better understanding of your working definition of "sealioning".
You didn't cite your source for the above quote, but here it is anyway (I believe):
http://www.ethicsandculture.com/blog/2016/beware-the-sea-lion
Let's just take this one bit:
A sea lion is often characterized by attempting to move the argument back several steps or by refusing to accept an assumption the other parties have agreed upon.
In the case of discussions here, however, there are very rarely "assumptions the other parties have agreed upon" other than very very basic ones. Frequently, the assumptions that I and others are asked to accept and agree to are really just right-wing narratives which are of debatable validity. It's not sealioning to question these narratives or to ask for evidence for claims that undergird these narratives.
I contend your accusation of "sealioning" is really just a complaint that I don't automatically accept the narratives behind your arguments. That you are expected to put in the work to actually justify and defend your own beliefs. Well boo hoo for you. Maybe if you actually constructed logical arguments instead of just repeating right-wing talking points, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
And by the way. Here is what your source recommends for how to deal with sealions:
Unfortunately, there is no good way to avoid all sea lions, except by not engaging in online speech that disagrees with them. That is exactly what they want.
Therefore, the best thing to do, it seems, is to speak well, use evidence appropriately, and ignore the sea lions until they go away.
So, if you really think I'm a sealion, why don't you try this tactic? I hope you have observed by now that just insulting me won't do the trick.
The best response is to call you a sea lion. It is apt and much shorter than feeding your dishonesty.
I love how you completely twist asking a person to meet the obligation to prove his/her own claims as somehow being an act of dishonesty.
Are we still talking about his claim that the guy not arrested for assaulting an officer didn’t assault an officer, or your claim that you wouldn’t be convinced that he didn’t assault an officer until you saw video that convinced you he didn’t?
750 minimum
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/22056688/kelley-ryan-statement-of-facts_redacted.pdf
That's the charging document and it has links to all of the videos necessary. It also has the words "he was in a crowd of people who were assaulting officers." There's no direct allegation that he ever pushed anyone.
In their star piece of evidence, people are gathered in front of a set of stairs where officers are gathered, and he's about 8 people back from the front of the crowd, holding up a smartphone and recording the whole thing. When the people at the front push forward, the whole mass moves forward, and him along with them.
Now you can criticize his decision to be involved in the protest when it was becoming riotous. You can criticize him for choosing to attend at all. What you can't do is claim there is any evidence of him assaulting a police officer. There is none, other than guilt by association.
Nuh uh.
— Lying Jeffy
PAY ATTENTION CHEMJEFF!
^ A Thinking Mind has just posted everything you've been sealioning about.
Well thank you for actually providing a link to this video.
After having watched the video, then I agree that it does not show conclusive evidence that he individually assaulted a police officer.
I love the weasel words. Just say that the videos attached to his charges don’t provide evidence that he assaulted anyone. You can say that now, without this “individually” qualifier that seems to assign collective blame on him on for being in the wrong crowd, and without the “conclusive” qualifier as if there’s anything vague of confusing about the video not showing evidence. If another video emerges later, you can come back and say “NOW there’s evidence,” and you lose zero credibility. It’s not going to make you retroactively wrong to say there’s no evidence right now, in the event evidence later emerges.
Keep in mind that the FBI had most of the information on him for over a year. They waited until two months before the primary to charge him. I don’t really know why that is.
Now, just to be clear: I wouldn’t vote for this guy even if I lived in Michigan. I think his participation in that shows, if nothing else, extremely poor judgment. He strikes at one of those Republicans whose entire policy is built on opposing the Democrats instead of having consistent principles. These sorts always end up failing to deliver anything if they get elected. But I don’t like the stink of the political games being played here. He should be allowed be run, and I’m not of a fan of calls to disqualify him for his misdemeanors. I just wouldn’t vote for him.
Just say that the videos attached to his charges don’t provide evidence that he assaulted anyone. You can say that now, without this “individually” qualifier that seems to assign collective blame on him on for being in the wrong crowd, and without the “conclusive” qualifier as if there’s anything vague of confusing about the video not showing evidence.
I have learned that, around here, I have to be precise in my wording, otherwise, any ambiguity will be exploited by trolls and miscreants to twist my words into something that I didn't intend.
Did you read the examples of sea lioning above?
No, that's not what you're doing. You're clinging to your former position, but using weasel words to pretend you're being good faith in accepting evidence that you really don't accept. That's what's going to get you called out. If you're being bad faith, people are absolutely going to be bad faith with your own words back at you.
I haven't emotionally invested myself to a position on this. If a video pops up tomorrow of this guy beating up Capitol Police, I can turn around and say, "Well fuck him, he should be charged with a felony." But right now there's no evidence of him committing any serious crimes other than trespassing (on public property).
Sometimes the sea lion is unaware he has presuppositions. There is an army of ignorant online warriors who seem to be unaware they have a worldview. All reasoning must be done on their terms, because they and only they have rightly reasoned from first principles to final conclusions.
ATM (not the porn kind), how long did you take to find those those? Because jeff has been asking for these links for 2 days and the links to the charging documents were provided yesterday in another story about it.
He has no interest in honest discourse. As you've pointed out.
I don’t call him Lying Jeffy for nothing.
No, that's not what you're doing. You're clinging to your former position, but using weasel words to pretend you're being good faith in accepting evidence that you really don't accept.
Yes that is what I'm doing. I saw the video, and based on the video, I agree that Kelley did not individually assault those police officers. He WAS a part of a mob, and that mob DID assault the police officers, but Kelley individually should not be blamed for that assault. You are attempting mind-reading at this point.
Fuck this. When I use vague language, that gets used against me for vagueness. And now, when I use precise language, that gets used against me for "weasel words". What do you want me to say here?
Jeff has pushed backed dozens of times of activists dressing up in all black to help hide violent actors from police during the Portland riots now attempts to redirect the non actions of one man to be faulted due to the crowd. Interesting.
And in both cases, I correctly state that the INDIVIDUALS should be held responsible for their INDIVIDUAL actions, did I not?
Where is the supposed hypocrisy here?
@Jessie I mean, I'm consistent. If I'm in a crowd and the crowd is starting to get violent, pushing police officers and bashing windows, I'm distancing myself from it because that's not what I signed up for. So I think Kelley showed really shitty judgment being in that crowd, at a minimum. I'm not really a fan of his, but I also dislike the games of arresting him the very day they started their primetime hearings.
I also think you're well beyond shitty judgment if you show up on day 5 of rioting to "protest peacefully" because you have to know that criminal activity is happening at that point.
On that note, when the House reconvened on January 7, the "insurrectionists" gave up on the attempt to stop the counting of the vote. It's because it was no insurrection and most conservatives condemn rioting, and were appalled at what happened on the 6th. It's hard to call it an insurrection when the insurrectionists all went home the next day.
Chemjeff radical sea lion.
We accept your apology.
Pssst. These links were on other links given yesterday. They were part of the charging documents discussed.
This is what you wrote yesterday:
https://reason.com/2022/06/10/the-january-6-hearings-may-be-surprisingly-worthwhile/?comments=true#comment-9537863
I posted the story and charges below.
And in the story you did post:
https://reason.com/2022/06/10/the-january-6-hearings-may-be-surprisingly-worthwhile/?comments=true#comment-9537684
that story did not contain a link to the charging document, nor to the video.
Now, sarcasmic did post a link to a Daily Mail story that did contain a link to the charging document. It also had a link to a video. How was I supposed to know that this video referenced here was the same video that you were referring to? After all you claimed the video was exculpatory. Why would an exculpatory video be a part of the prosecution's charging document? It didn't make sense to me. So my initial thought was that the video that you were referring to, was some other video totally unrelated to the charging document or the prosecution's presentation, that appeared to disprove the prosecution's case. Not that the video that you were referring to was the same video that the prosecution itself referenced.
When I asked for the link, why didn't you just provide the link?
Jesse, I have things to do today, so I will not have the "pleasure" of arguing with you all day in the comments.
I'll just note that everyone was having a pleasant conversation until you showed up and immediately started in with the insults and the personal attacks.
You're like a drunk at a bar who has had too much and wants to start fighting everyone. Except that's you all the time, sober or not.
You come here purposefully to troll and bait and mock and insult the people you don't like. Most of us grew out of that phase by the 7th grade or so, but apparently you didn't. Grow up and stop being such an asshole. Stop ruining the conversation for everyone else.
seconded
You two sociopaths are the biggest trolls here and easily the most roundly hated by everyone.
Don't pretend that trolling, shitposting and shilling wasn't the only thing on your minds when you opened the comments this morning.
I made thoughtful comment on how people look at poverty and homelessness from the wrong angle, and of course you ignore it because you're just a troll that engages in petty bullshit.
Then since JesseAz felt the need to shitpost about me, I returned the favor.
Now the both of you continue to shit up the place.
Have fun rolling around in your shit. I'm going to enjoy the day.
You deliberately trolled Jesse in the start of this very comment thread, you lying sack of shit:
https://reason.com/2022/06/11/zoning-vs-the-good-samaritan/?comments=true#comment-9539741
"Meanwhile JesseAz stays up all night afraid someone may go on a murder spree at the strawman factory."
You don't get to bitch and moan and act the innocent when he punches back.
Those two are in such worlds of delusion it could be used in text books.
Speaking of textbook, chemjeff almost quoted the Wondermark comic that birthed the term "sealioning" word for word:
Wondermark sealion: "I would like to have a civil conversation about your statement... I have been unfailingly polite, and you two have been nothing but rude."
chemjeff: "I'll just note that everyone was having a pleasant conversation until you showed up and immediately started in with the insults and the personal attacks."
Which also isn't even true because timestamps show those two were trolling from the moment they got here today. But the point is, to quote the comic, "sea lions, dude".
I thought you had things to do today?
He's drunk already, isn't he?
That’s my guess. Should be rolling by tonight.
Sarc said he had things to do today as well but he continues to post. Is one of those things educating yourself about basic facts for arguments you are making?
"Jesse, I have things to do today, so I will not have the "pleasure" of arguing with you all day in the comments."
Cite?
Imagine making this post in a thread that started thus:
sarcasmic
June.11.2022 at 10:30 am
Flag Comment Mute User
PICTURED: Maryland concrete plant worker, 23, who shot dead three co-workers and injured two others after working a full shift
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10906051/Suspect-Maryland-concrete-plant-shooting-employee-working-day-shooting.html
Meanwhile JesseAz stays up all night afraid someone may go on a murder spree at the strawman factory.
Grand delusions run rampant in their world.
Interesting how there’s great detail about the large shelter plans, but no explanation at all about why it was impossible to build multiple smaller shelters. I suspect this is another Reason piece that is loose with the story.
People volunteered and provided tiny houses for the homeless in LA, but the city tore them down because they weren't up to code. I guess they thought a tent or a cardboard box is a better option.
Handmade artisanal homes.
Go back and recheck the article. There were several paragraphs explaining why smaller shelters couldn’t be opened in Boise.
Because of laws and rules, or physically impossible?
Not in California. The Governor put them up in hotels that weren't being used due to the lockdowns. Which they proceeded to trash.
New documents show Schumer was also warned of possible J6 violence.
https://justthenews.com/government/congress/politics-over-security-schumer-team-got-fbi-intel-about-jan-6-violence
But Chemjeff swore yesterday that it couldn't be true.
Jeff will ask for links if this is stated anytime in the future.
Nuh uh.
— Jeffdeesarc
Biden decided after 40 billion it was time to trash Zelensky for some reason.
https://nypost.com/2022/06/11/live-updates-bidenvolodymyr-zelensky-didnt-want-to-hear-us-info/
Everybody involved is lying. And they can't stop because it will be proof that they were lying back then.
"Most importantly, it was one of the few available properties in the city whose zoning allowed for an emergency shelter. All the nonprofit needed was that conditional use permit"
All those words, and no explanation why a conditional use permit is required for a use allowed by the zoning.
Strange.
People who spend more than a million dollars for their 600 sq ft condos don't want "the poor and vulnerable" in their neighborhoods. And I don't blame them.
Without government subsidies, "the poor and vulnerable" could never afford housing in those neighborhoods in the first place: housing created at taxpayer expense in astronomically expensive neighborhoods is not in any way, shape, or form "libertarian".
You pretend to be a libertarian, Britschgi, so argue like one: in a free market, if you don't have a lot of money, you live in cheap neighborhoods. In a free market, a lot of the zoning laws we have would be taken care of by HOAs, and they wouldn't allow housing for "the poor and vulnerable" to be built on their private property either.
Make up your mind, Britschgi: either you are a libertarian or you are a progressive; you can't be both.
Empathy trumps property rights.
I don't think giving housing to the homeless in astronomically expensive cities amounts to "empathy" at all, since it pretty much ensures that these people will remain in poverty.
I think wealthy progressives just like having some level of poverty and misery around them; it makes those wealthy progressives feel good about themselves.
Yeah but his intentions are good. Does anything else really matter?
"'Cause I'm just a soul who's intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
The sudden appearance of a deadly infectious respiratory virus didn't help the situation.
I stopped reading at the above sentence. If you can not properly characterize a mild bug that is less deadly than the flu, then you are likely as blind as the church owners who clearly lack vision as well. If one is hoping to build a homeless shelter in an area, it is common sense to poll the neighbors to get their buy-in. If the church leaders were as passionate about their outreach as you portray, they can take a page of advice from the New Testament book, Acts of the Apostles, i.e. shelter them yourselves in your church members homes.
Overt, my brother. You still think ENB is NOT a far left progressive?
FWIW, we don't have a homeless problem in our country. This is a drug problem. These encampments are open drug scenes. Until we acknowledge the truth of the situation, we will not solve the problem.
Not all homeless people are part of the open drug scene, but it's the overwhelming majority. Feeding them is good. Providing shelter, maybe. But until we address how we're going to help them with their drug addiction, this problem is NOT going away.
Who says they want help?
Some do not want help. And like many addicts, they cannot easily admit they have a problem and need help. But if/when they do, simply giving them a room/house doesn't help their crack or Fentynol addiction go away.
It's a combination of a drug problem and a mental illness problem, but of course those two problems are strongly connected.
Agreed there is overlap there. I'm just commenting that pretending this is just a homeless problem is not accurate nor going to help us find the correct solutions.
The majority of these folks are just some lower class person, down on their luck needing a hand up. Most of these folks are not capable of contributing to society, especially the mentally ill. The drug addicts, they might be able to recover and become healthy, contributing people; but not until their addiction problem is resolved.
https://twitter.com/bonchieredstate/status/1535679917966430208?t=o94d6Imra_Frbav2o0MRuA&s=19
A leftwing group has announced they will surround the Supreme Court with the express intent of shutting it down, stopping the process of government.
Not a single person will be accused of fomenting an insurrection. None will be charged with sedition. None will even be arrested.
All those "it wasn't the riot that made January 6th unique, it was the stopping of the work of Congress that made it an insurrection" takes are about to not be applied to this by the hypocrites.
Yikes
https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1535617510485200896?t=oR8TvqYCFi8pFmAKy5I9tQ&s=19
How journalists fire guns.
[Pic]
She wants to be a raccoon for halloween.
Or a pirate.
That’s gonna leave a mark.
See? Guns are dangerous.
https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1535269226709241861?t=RKJHxuBJwXTFzsC6_5grdw&s=19
BREAKING: U.S. annualized inflation just peaked 17 percent for the first time since WW2, the highest rate in 75 years.
The media are misreporting the real data, and I’ll explain why. 1/
[Graphic]
Inflation is properly defined as an expansion of the money supply. However in the 20th century, the federal government began a series of steps to expand the money supply to facilitate more expansive federal spending 2/
(removing the gold standard, removing the gold peg, suppressing interest rates as "stimulus," printing money directly into the Treasury, etc.). All of these are inflationary, and prices rose far more in the 20th century vs. the largely deflationary 19th century. 3/
To cover their tracks, the Fed changed its definition of inflation from meaning an expansion in the money supply to mean rising prices. (Again, previously, the terms were basically synonymous as an expanding money supply ALWAYS means higher prices.) 4/
The CPI as originally conceived was intended to track the cost of maintaining a constant standard of living. In 1980, the Fed altered its tool for calculating inflation such that it was no longer measuring a constant "basket of goods" but rather a "quasi-substitution-based 5/
basket of goods"; now, via "hedonics," the Fed would, for example, use tech improvements to offset rising prices (i.e., if a computer is 25 percent faster than the year prior but the price remained the same, the Fed claimed a 25 percent price drop in generalized ... 6/
computing power, which enabled them to suppress headline CPI numbers on net).
In 1990, the Fed again evolved the CPI so that these tricks for downplaying "official" inflation were exacerbated. 7/
Unfortunately the major media reports whatever Washington feeds them, as if this shapeshifting measuring stick is actually useful to consumers. 8/
Thankfully consistent data is available via ShadowStats, where economist John Williams updates inflation data using the Fed's original CPI calculator. Most of the data is behind a paywall, but you can still see how the official Fed data is now slightly less than 9/
… half of what it would be if it were still using the CPI tool used up until 1980. The first percentages are the official CPI numbers; the percentages on the right are inflation using the original measuring stick. As you can see, this year the real inflation numbers 10/
[Graphic]
… are slightly more than 2x the official numbers. At the beginning of the dataset, you can see how these percentages matched. 11/
[Graphic]
ShadowStats hasn't updated for May yet, but if current trends hold — and probably they will only worsen — May's annualized inflation rate will be just north of 17 percent. As a reminder, the worst of Jimmy Carter's stagflation era topped out at 14.5 percent. /12
This year we'll soon see Americans' losing 20 percent of the value of their paycheck through inflation alone. That's a horrible shock to Main St., and unfortunately there's no reason for optimism. The Fed continues suppressing … 13/
… interest rates and was still printing money last month. The crisis will only abate once Congress drastically slashes spending and the Fed jacks up interest rates to unforeseen levels, the effects of which will be a huge recession. 14/
The Biden Admin doesn't want a recession on their watch, so will likely try papering over the crisis with more handouts, which as we all now only makes things worse, while pushing off the actual reckoning further into the future. 15/
The worst part about this? Inflation always punishes the poor hardest. 16/
So, what happens when you combine the social decay we've witnessed over these last several years with skyrocketing inflation, supply-chain breakdowns, food shortages, and collapsing institutions?
We'll soon see. fin/
P.S. Forgot to post these three charts. 1) Inflation during the Carter stagflation crisis. 2) Inflation in the 20th century. 3) Deflation in the 19th century (when we were on a gold standard … in that era technological advancement actually meant a lower cost of living)
[Graphic]
Post Script: You can verify yourself how severely the Fed underreports inflation by creating your own basket of goods and checking the price change over the last year. For example
1 lb bacon, May 2021: $4.101; May 2022: $4.79. Increase: 16.9%
1 lb uncooked long grain rice, May 2021: $0.801; May 2022: $.909. Increase: 13.5%
1 lb bacon: May 2021: $6.35; May 2022: $7.36. Increase: 16.0%
1 lb chicken breast, May 2021: $3.371; May 2022: $4.310. Increase: 27.9%
Dozen eggs, grade A, May 2021: $1.63; May 2022: $2.86. Increase: 76.2%
Gallon of whole milk, May 2021: $3.50; May 2022: $4.20. Increase: 20.2%
1 lb of oranges (navel), May 2021: $1.32; May 2022: $1.55. Increase: 20.2%
1 lb of white potatoes, May 2021: $.76; May 2022: $.86. Increase: 14.5%
12 ounces orange juice (frozen concentrate), May 2021: $2.39; May 2022: $2.86. Increase: 19.6%
1 lb of coffee, ground roast, May 2021: $4.57; May 2022: $5.84. Increase 27.8%
1 lb propane, May 2021: $2.85; May 2022: $5.97. Increase: 111.4%
Natural gas (per therm), May 2021: $1.20; May 2022: $1.57. Increase: 30.3
1 gallon gasoline, May 2021: $3.04; May 2022: $4.70. Increase: 54.4
Electricity (per kwh), May 2021: $.14; May 2022: $1.54. Increase: 10%
Median home sale price, March 2020: $272,929; March 2022: $373,734. Increase: 26% (13% annualized)
Overall, the average inflation we're seeing with the basket of goods above comes out to 30.75 percent y/o/y. Of course these should be weighted to reflect the average consumer monthly budget allocation, but the point holds:
The federal government is dramatically — and intentionally — underreporting inflation.
Well yeah they've been doing that for decades. It would be accurate to blame Biden for inflation but more accurate to blame FDR and Nixon and the whole central banking system. On the bright side at least we didn't die on a cross of gold.
Why not go back to the gold standard that existed in the 19th century?
I know fighting zoning gives some libertarians a boner, but excluding homeless centers is exactly why normal people like zoning.
I suppose the true libertarian solution is do eliminate public property, AND find a way for people who own adjacent parcels to have some legally-based mutual restrictions on use.
“We have a culture where the difference is: Guns can be used for hunting or for sport shooting in Canada – and there are lots of gun owners, and they’re mostly law-respecting and law-abiding – but you can’t use a gun for self-protection in Canada,” Trudeau said. “That’s not a right that you have in the Constitution or anywhere else.”
As the Texas school tragedy shows, you can count on the cops to protect you.
Trudeau - what a commie, like his commie father Fidel.
The right to own a gun is 100% about self-defense! It's always outrageous to me when politicians with their armed guards tell us pleebs that we don't have a right to defend ourselves with a gun.
Trust the state. Love the state. Submit to the state.
BTW, this sounds like the basic premise of Islam, and we know how happy and free those people are.
Is there a link to this quote?
Why do you guys engage Lying Jeffy? He's not interested in an honest conversation about facts. He's just spamming the board with non-sense DNC talking points. Just mute him already. I hate seeing you guys waste effort on him. He's NOT worth it. He'll never admit he's wrong because he's a dishonest, progressive fuck.
Why i just call him a sea lion and and don't bother playing his games.
He thrives on the attention. And he's just trying to distract everybody from honest discussion with constant red herrings and strawman arguments.
I actually appreciate the debate that goes on here between most everyone else. For the most part, it's enlightening and sometimes I learn something myself. But the progressive shit-trolls make the boards hard to read and enjoy.
And he's just trying to distract everybody from honest discussion with constant red herrings and strawman arguments.
LOL I'm the one trying to generate genuine discussion, rather than the usual circle-jerk around here of "hurr durr Everything is a conspiracy, Democrats are evil and Republicans are well-meaning but misunderstood, blah blah blah"
Correct
Sometimes its valuable to engage with someone who disagrees with you on the most fundamental level to see what they do to challenge you. There's value. If he wasn't asking for video here, I probably wouldn't have gone looking for the charging document, and I'd know a lot less about this (since it's a Michigan thing and I don't care about Michigan) than I do now.
And if I saw a video of Ryan Kelley bashing a police officer's head in with a steel pipe, I'd know a LOT more than I did yesterday. That video probably doesn't exist, but without looking, I didn't really know what he was charged with.
It's good to face someone challenging you on the evidence.
I agree but I've ended up muting most of the lefties here because they're so tiresome and I don't have time to waste on their silly rants. Their may be articulate liberals that could make a persuasive argument but they haven't shown up here yet.
There may be...
Tony and Joe Asshole are articulate. Stupid and dishonest beyond any measure, but articulate.
To the gray box: Fuck off and die, you pathetic pile of lefty shit.
Then why do you come here? Just to listen to an echo chamber?
"...It's good to face someone challenging you on the evidence..."
And Sarc is among the many who post actual evidence only by accident.
You're welcome to do as you please, but reading 30 of the asshole's posts to come up with one accidental piece of evidence means he's a gray box.
Jeff plays rhetorical games, which can actually be quite useful for making me retrace back to first principles. Sarc I mostly ignore. And Tony. But I don't actually mute them.
I only have two non-spammers muted, and one of them is a spoof account.
"...Jeff plays rhetorical games, which can actually be quite useful for making me retrace back to first principles..."
Get plenty of mental exercise in business; not here to play word games. Get honest or get out. Or get tossed out.
Do not suffer fools well, even 'clever' ones.
To the gray box: Fuck off and die, you pathetic pile of lefty shit. No, I don't suffer assholes like you.
Well thank you.
Going to an echo chamber is boring. Who wants that? Evidently lots of people, but I don't understand it myself. How many times can you really stand everyone expressing the same opinions on the same topics over and over again? It produces complacency and fosters ignorance as you never genuinely understand what motivates people who aren't like you. You're just stuck in this bubble of groupthink where it's a competition to see how many clever ways you can come up with to denounce the Other Tribe as mercilessly evil.
We can't coexist with each other if we do not even understand each other. And we can't begin to understand each other if we won't even listen to each other.
Practice.
There are lots of people one encounters day to day who suffer from the same delusions as Jeff, and one sometimes has to engage them.
https://twitter.com/johncardillo/status/1535722320660135938?t=Bm-CrEu54QkHUalYAcjPmw&s=19
These people are your enemies.
Never forget that.
[Link]
Although the WEF republished it, it's not a WEF paper but a Psychological Review paper. And it's not the opinion of the psychologists, it's based on an analysis of what people actually seem to find fulfilling.
I still think there is a lot of conformation bias in the paper ("[we] report evidence suggesting that people leading psychologically rich lives tend to be more curious, think more holistically, and lean more politically liberal"). I mean, it's not surprising that a few divorces, drug addiction, a nervous breakdown, homelessness, a stint in prison, and living on welfare would both make your life "more psychologically rich" and "more politically liberal", but that's probably not what people have in mind when they wish for "psychologically rich lives".
Anyway, here's the original paper: https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2021-74886-001
then there is > 2000 years of data proving....
Father Stu Star Mark Wahlberg Takes To Social Media To Celebrate His Son’s Catholic Confirmation
https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/06/07/father-stu-star-mark-wahlberg-takes-to-social-media-to-celebrate-his-sons-catholic-confirmation/
“People need to have faith and hope.”
“Young men need to know what it’s like to be a real man,” Wahlberg continued. “And you could list a million reasons — just turn on the news, anywhere you look there are reasons for encouraging people to have faith and to have hope.”
I see conservatives making the same mistake as progressives: assuming that everybody is the same, thinks the same, and behaves the same.
Statistically, Wahlberg's statement is probably true. For many young men, it's not.
Thank you for actually bringing clarity to the discussion.
"FWIW, we don't have a homeless problem in our country. This is a drug problem. These encampments are open drug scenes. Until we acknowledge the truth of the situation, we will not solve the problem."
Not sure all of it is drug-related, but in SF, it certainly looks that way. Also not sure the issue is related to 'housing costs'; read "The Rise of Theodore Roosevelt" (Morris). TR was certainly proud of the Spanish American War, but even more proud of passing legislation in NYC which forbade renting to a certain number of people per room, immediately creating the first "homeless crisis".
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Not all homeless people are part of the open drug scene, but it's the overwhelming majority. Feeding them is good. Providing shelter, maybe. But until we address how we're going to help them with their drug addiction, this problem is NOT going away."
In SF, certainly (and nowhere else mentioned) has there been any sort 'means testing' to separate the free-loaders from those in actual need. NOT ONE EFFORT, and SF in 2016, paid $241m to attract and house them free of charge (to them).
Long before we discuss zoning as an issue, perhaps we need to discuss actual remediation, including handing bus tickets to those who show up here from low housing coast areas and demand free housing:
"Judge Orders Oakland Mom Squatters To Be Evicted; Moms Say 'We're Not Leaving'"
[...]
"Walker moved into the home at 2928 Magnolia St. on Nov. 18 along with her two children, who are one and four years old..."
https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/judge-orders-oakland-mom-squatters-to-be-evicted-from-vacant-home/
So we have a single mom with TWO KIDS and NO HOME, besides which (and you'll have to take my word; the references have disappeared in the interim), she recently bussed to the Bay Area from either Louisiana or Mississippi, in the hopes of, what?
O/T: Looks like the Electoral Count Act is going to be reformed. Good.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/electoral-count-act-senators-agreement-electoral-college/
Collins said the group has already drafted language that would make clear that the vice president's role is ministerial in the process of counting Electoral College votes. The new language also raises the threshold for triggering a challenge to a state's slate from one member in each chamber to 20% of the members in each body. There would be a majority vote for sustaining an objection.
Good first step. The entire process should not be gummed up by just one or two disgruntled sore losers.
Also:
"ECA reform should clarify that Congress has an important but limited role in tallying electoral votes, consistent with the best understanding of the Twelfth Amendment and other relevant authorities," the group of experts wrote. "ECA reform should help check efforts by any State actor to disregard or override the outcome of an election conducted pursuant to State law in effect prior to Election Day, including State law governing the process for recounts, contests, and other legal challenges."
A separate group of election law scholars wrote a Washington Post op-ed in January that made some suggestions to reform the law, including that Congress must accept results from a state when it receives only one official slate of electors. The scholars said that if a state submits a competing slate of electors, Congress should be incentivized to settle which is the true slate. But, if that can't be determined, they suggest that a governor, state supreme court or other institution should make the final decision.
I also think this goes in the right direction. If an election was conducted correctly according to state law, then Congress really should have no business intervening. Who decides if the state conducts its own election correctly? The state does, via its usual mechanisms of recounts and judicial review.
This part may not be constitutional; state legislatures set the rules for elections, and there is no constraint on when or how they set the rules. It's also not a serious problem.
Again, it may not be constitutional for Congress to decide this.
https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S4-C1-1/ALDE_00001036/
Article I, Section 4, Clause 1:
The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.
So, Congress does have some power to set rules over elections.
Fuck off and die, gray box. If you have a wife or a husband, they will be dancing in the street.
Just eat shit and die.
There is plenty of vacant land between the Sierras and the Rockies.
Why not just enserf the homeless and relocate them to manors between the Sierras and the Rockies?
Why not just enserf the homeless and relocate them to manors between the Sierras and the Rockies?
well, I think you answered your own question
Reason LA is soon going to be inundated with homeless. A new "shelter" was purchased from a successful extended stay hotel only a few blocks away that suddenly found it more profitable to sell at over $500k per room. The local city councilman who ramrodded in the project was previously homeless and wants his district to feel as much annoyance, pain, fear, disgust as possible in order to bring about his personal ideas of change. All of these new shelters are being established with no input from the surrounding neighborhoods. The councilman is no longer up for reelection, but the damage is already done. Nice, middleclass neighborhoods have to pay the dividends of progressive policies - we can't have the wealthy do it (they pay for reelections) and the poor already have shelters.
Yeah, I'm sure "complex land use rules" explains why Los Angeles spent $837000 ***PER PERSON*** and still didn't get anybody off the streets. It's a well-known fact -- except apparently to libterds and libertarians -- that homeless people put into housing are soon back on the street.