You Can't Solve Homelessness by Making It a Crime
In an August ruling, Washington's Supreme Court found that a homeless plaintiff's truck qualified as his homestead.

A man's car is his castle. So declared the Washington Supreme Court, more or less, when it ruled last August that the city of Seattle could not impound a homeless man's truck and require him to pay nearly $550 in towing and storage costs. Nor could the city sell the man's truck, his sole source of shelter, at auction to pay off his debts.
The justices held that Seattle's practice violated the Eighth Amendment's prohibition of excessive fines and fees. It was one of the first times a state high court had applied the Excessive Fines Clause since the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 2019 that it constrains the states.
The ruling was significant not just for Eighth Amendment jurisprudence but also for the rights of homeless people. The court found that the plaintiff's truck qualified as his homestead.
According to the court's opinion, there are nearly 12,000 homeless people in Washington's King County, more than 2,000 of whom live in vehicles. Cities across the country have been trying to deal with the public nuisance of tent camps and people living in their cars. But their solutions have amounted to little more than rousting indigent people from one spot to another.
The Justice Department announced in August that it was launching an investigation into potential civil rights abuses by the Phoenix Police Department. Among other complaints, it will look into allegations that Phoenix cops unlawfully seize or dispose of homeless people's belongings.
In October, the Miami City Commission enacted a ban on public camping. After facing criticism that they were criminalizing homelessness, the commissioners approved a sarcastic "adopt-the-homeless" program, offering support to Miami residents who want to help solve the problem by providing space in their homes. "If there are as many kindhearted people out there as some claim to be out there," Commissioner Joe Carollo said, "I would expect them to step up."
Cities don't make it easy for private charities to step up, however. In October the town of Brookings, Oregon, decreed that churches in residential zones—meaning every church in Brookings—would be allowed to serve food to the homeless just two days a week. The restriction was a response to neighbors' complaints about a local Episcopal church. The county has no homeless shelters, and the church was the only place offering hot meals seven days a week.
Cities have a legitimate interest in maintaining safety and livability. But that can't come at the expense of religious charity or respect for the dignity and rights of homeless people.
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As a Koch / Reason libertarian, I think homelessness is actually a good thing.
After all, our philosophy exists to widen the gap between the rich and poor. Literally every policy we support is consistent with this objective — open borders, a $0.00 / hour minimum wage, lower taxes for billionaires. And there is no more convincing proof our agenda is working than the fact that our benefactor Charles Koch is worth over $60,000,000,000 while some Americans cannot even afford shelter.
#InDefenseOfBillionaires
As a Koch libertarian you must be conflicted by former President Trump's love of civil asset forfeiture:
Trump Taps Civil Asset Forfeiture to Fund Border Wall
The Trump administration says proceeds from cash, cars and other property seized in controversial asset-forfeiture will provide some 8 percent of the wall’s funding.
https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2019-02-15/trump-taps-civil-asset-forfeiture-to-fund-border-wall
Does making poor victims of the police pay for his border wall make sense to a liberaltarian?
I know that Trump fans support him in his zealous backing of police overreach.
Kelo. Answer to that first. But you can't.
He can, but he doesn't like the answer, so he won't.
Who doesn't like the question? Why is it I can EASILY look up and verify the award trump DID win, Michigan Republican of the year, and I CAN'T find the Michigan "MAN" of the year, but a lot of sites verify it is not real? Can you help me "MAN"? It would just take a few minutes of your valuable time, "MAN".
War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.
Or is it you don't like the answer, "MAN"?
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Oh look, two spam posts in a row.
I am ready for your proof of the "MAN". Being ignorant is not so much a shame as being UNWILLING to learn, 'MAN'. Why not stick a fork in it, prove you haven't been lying, you will feel better when you prove trump was 'MAN' lying?
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Douchebruce, like the shit eater, is to be muted.
First, thank you for continuing to bring up Drumpf in every topic. I was worried you'd cave to the pressure of people telling you it's embarrassing and pathetic to obsess over someone who's been out of the White House for a year and has no chance of getting back. (And who isn't even on major social media sites.)
Second, obviously screwing over poor people is generally a good thing from a Koch / Reason libertarian POV — but not if it simultaneously screws over billionaires by cutting off their supply of cost-effective foreign-born labor. Therefore a wall, or any other form of border enforcement, is unacceptable no matter how it's funded.
#CheapLaborAboveAll
I knew you would come through. Trump knows us elite don't need to worry about overzealous police stealing our belongings.
Yeah but SPB is a pedophile who was caught posting child porn to the Reason comments and banned. That wasn't Biden's fault. It was SPB's fault. So he should go away and never come back. And if you are going to converse with him, understand that you are conversing with a pedophile- one who thinks he can just ignore this crime and people will forgive him and treat him as normal.
I've got an idea! Attack SPB as a person while ignoring whatever he writes! You can be just like JesseAZ!
*swoon*
Look at sarcasmic, rushing in to white knight for a guy who actually posted child porn links here, and got his original handle banned.
Ironic since you're also a proud troll.
sarcasmic
August.12.2021 at 4:45 pm
I only show up to watch the clowns duke it out while tossing in this or that provocation. Bread and circuses. This is my circus.
No enemies to the left for Mr. Both Sides.
You're another liar.
I'm not going away either. I've posted here longer than any Trump cultist.
If you ever get prosecuted you'll be going away.
I'm a liar?
Did you or did you not post links to child porn here?
No kidding, you used to work here, asshole!
Look at Mother's Lament, can't even find a site to prove trumps lie about Mich. "MAN" of the year. Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. ALL I am asking is your proof that Michigan "MAN" of the year even exists. It's hard for me to prove a negative. But it is easy to prove a positive, just tell me who won ANY Michigan "MAN" of the year award, trump and/or anyone.
"Man" up to the fact that Trump told the truth, ᛋᛋqrls.
You are still batting 1.000, every time you use the word "MAN" means you and/or trump are lying. "MAN", ALL I am asking is your proof that Michigan "MAN" of the year even exists. It's hard for me to prove a negative. But it is easy to prove a positive, just tell me who won ANY Michigan "MAN" of the year award, trump and/or anyone. Come on "MAN", "MAN" up. fun fact: I have nothing to do with ᛋᛋqrls, come on "MAN".
Pettifogging about the use of the word "man" versus "Republican" doesn't change the fact that the basis of his claim was correct.
Confidence is ignorance. If you're feeling cocky, it's because there's something you don't know. Do you know who won the "MAN" of the year award besides trump? Do some research "MAN", you will be glad you did. If you do, you will more easily understand how many times Trump lied about his "made up award" on video. "MAN" it is so easy, even YOU could do it ! Get it over with and you can get back to your porn, "MAN".
I'm indeed feeling cocky, retard, because there's folks like you out there.
Thanks for making the rest of us feel superior just because you exist.
Again, you and Trump suffer from "the Dunning-Kruger (DK) effect", which is the phenomenon which describes how people with LOW ability are too incompetent to recognize their own incompetence. Bankrupting 6 casinos where every game has an over-all guaranteed winning edge is a perfect example. What you feel has nothing to do with reality in your case, I mean you can't even use Google, most 8-year-olds use it every day, and you can't, "MAN".
You might have forgotten again, google Michigan "MAN" of the year.
The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: Be satisfied with YOUR opinions and content with YOUR knowledge.
Pretty clear you don't understand Dunning-Kruger, Sqrls.
"Attack SPB as a person while ignoring whatever he writes!"
No. And because I actually care about you, Sarc, I want to be very clear here before you make this the hill you want to die on.
1) SPB posted child porn. It was an inexcusable *crime* that got him banned- one of the very, very few things that will get you banned at Reason. There is a reason he no longer posts as "Palin's Buttplug"- because that account was banned.
2) He could have slinked off and started off a new identity that was unrelated to this crime. But he comes back directly tied to that old identity, basically saying that his previous crimes didn't matter.
3) So, understand that I *am* actually attacking his messaging. By choosing to continue with the PB identity, he is sending a very clear message- that him posting CP was no big deal. Like Epstein and Weinstein who expected that their lefty bleatings were enough to excuse their crimes, SPB seems to think that the exploitation of children is no biggie if he just ignores it long enough.
I get it if this is no big deal to you, but to me, it is.
1) I remember when he was accused of the child porn. Still not sure if it's true or not.
2) I'm not even sure it's the same person. That guy was a raving idiot and this one seems reasonable at times.
3) You're sending a clear message that you believe what was said about him, and that overrides whatever he says.
The big deal to me is your childish "I heard people say this about you so I'm going to yell it out whenever you say something la la la!" attitude. I despise people who do that shit. Grow up.
Shreek has literally been the same sack of shit since before registration, long before his child porn incident. The only thing that's changed is that Trump broke your tiny little pea brain and you're so fucking far off the deep end that you think literal Marxism "seems reasonable" when it would have repelled you even 5 years ago. You really are fucking broken. And as gratifying as it's been to be a part of your total mental downfall, it's also very sad in a way. You were always incredibly stupid. Very simple. A sloganeer with no original thoughts of any kind. But you weren't a demented psychopath who would jump into the fray to defend one of this site's oldest trolls who unequivocally posted child pornography - and you goddamn well know it, you were there.
LOL. You've been stalking Ken for months posting literally the exact same garbage on every single of one of his posts even though he muted your drunken ass. Your dbruce and Sqrsly socks are literally nothing but 5 year old Salon articles about Trump. You accuse everyone who disagrees with anything you or the Reason writers have to say on any given topic even if it's as banal and uninteresting as local zoning rules of being a rabid fanatic well into the 2nd year of his successor's presidency. Shut the fuck up with your posturing here you flaming fucking hypocrite.
Hi Tulpa. Or GG. Or Mary. Whoever you are. Meet my mute button.
Hi Tulpa!
“Dear Abby” is a personal friend of mine. She gets some VERY strange letters! For my amusement, she forwards some of them to me from time to time. Here is a relevant one:
Dear Abby, Dear Abby,
My life is a mess,
Even Bill Clinton won’t stain my dress,
I whinny seductively for the horses,
They tell me my picnic is short a few courses,
My real name is Mary Stack,
NO ONE wants my hairy crack!
On disability, I live all alone,
Spend desperate nights by the phone,
I found a man named Richard (Dick) Decker,
But he won’t give me his hairy pecker!
Dick Decker’s pecker is reserved for farm beasts,
I am beastly, yes! But my crack’s full of yeasts!
So Dear Abby, that’s just a poetic summary… You can read about the Love of my Life, Richard Decker, here:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/10/11/farmers-kept-refusing-let-him-have-sex-with-their-animals-so-he-sought-revenge-authorities-say/#comments-wrapper
Farmers kept refusing to let him have sex with their animals. So he sought revenge, authorities say.
Decker the hairy pecker told me a summary of his story as below:
Decker: “Can I have sex with your horse?”
Farmer: “Lemme go ask the horse.”
Pause…
Farmer: “My horse says ‘neigh’!”
And THAT was straight from the horse’s mouth! I’m not horsin’ around, here, no mare!
So Richard Decker the hairy pecker told me that, apparently never even realizing just HOW DEEPLY it hurt me, that he was all interested in farm beasts, while totally ignoring MEEE!!
So I thought maybe I could at least liven up my lonely-heart social life, by refining my common interests that I share with Richard Decker… I, too, like to have sex with horses!
But Dear Abby, the horses ALL keep on saying “neigh” to my whinnying sexual advances!
Some tell me that my whinnying is too whiny… Abby, I don’t know how to fix it!
Dear Abby, please don’t tell me “get therapy”… I can’t afford it on my disability check!
Now, along with my crack full of yeasts… I am developing anorexia! Some are calling me a “quarter pounder with cheese”, but they are NOT interested at ALL, in eating me!!! They will NOT snack on my crack!
What will I DO, Dear Abby?!?!?
-Desperately Seeking Horses, Men, or ANYTHING, in Fort Worth,
Yours Truly,
R Mac / Mary Stack / Tulpa / Mary’s Period / “.” / Satan
What will I DO, Dear Abby?!?!?
Try taking your meds?
I wonder if you'll ever understand just how gratifying it is to me knowing that by simply rubbing your nose in the pile of dogshit that is your pathetic excuse for a life, I get you seething with impotent rage so hard that you have to pretend to mute me, and then come back 10 minutes later with your sock and post copypasta #82655. My own personal little paypig. Squeal for me again, baby.
Poor sarc.
"The big deal to me is your childish "I heard people say this about you so I'm going to yell it out whenever you say something la la la!"
I was there before the thread was pulled. I saw the evidence. Now, you can call me a liar, but you are wrong to say I merely heard about this.
"I'm not even sure it's the same person."
You suggest that this is a person pretending to be Palin's Buttplug- why? To capitalize on the legacy of a crazy CP-trafficker who was banned from the site? If that is the case, then understanding that they are carrying the moniker of a CP poster is important.
"3) You're sending a clear message that you believe what was said about him, and that overrides whatever he says."
No I am sending a clear message that he is a person who posts in CP, and that despite being caught and banned, he thinks he should be allowed to just show up and pretend it never happened.
*Shrug* Call me a liar if you want, but I was there when it happened. So now it is down to he says, she says. I have the same handle I always had, while SPB is oddly unable to post using his original one. That is not proof, but it sure is evidence.
But, even if you choose to believe that guy over me, that doesn't mean I am childish for choosing to point out that he traffics in CP. Go ahead and associate with him all you want, but I will be pointing out that he is a CP trafficker. And yeah, in the list of human failings, I put that up there with certain others as "ought to be shunned".
Then mute him. Instead of dignifying him, never respond directly. That's what shunning means. Lead by example, as I do with certain trolls on this site.
You are probably the only guy on the whole board who regularly mutes others for attention, sarc.
Anyway, can you post the 2021 list with rankings?
I haven’t even been getting mentioned in his regular rants anymore.
Muted you. You can’t keep saying things like that without consequences, even if you believe them.
If it's a big deal to you, mute the guy. Don't respond to his posts.
Like you do with Ken and JesseAz, right?
Hi Tulpa. I suppose you're going to post with my name now since Reason doesn't give a shit. Signing out for the day. Hasta Luigi.
Looks like sarcasmic ran away mad instead of doubling down. He must've not been drinking.
The bitch always runs away from me. And still thinks I'm Tulpa. Notice how he nicely set it up so that when he goes on a drunken posting spree later today he can come back and claim he wuz haxzord yet again.
He’ll be back later after he’s got his buzz on.
What are people supposed to do with SPB's utterances? This time, it was even less relevant than his usual irrelevant nonsense.
An alarm clock flashing 12:00 is not somehow correct just because it is noon or midnight.
does anybody really know what time it is?
Does anyone really care?
Hey Damiksec, damiskec, and damikesc, and ALL of your other socks…
How is your totalitarian scheme to FORCE people to buy Reason magazines coming along?
Free speech (freedom from “Cancel Culture”) comes from Facebook, Twitter, Tik-Tok, and Google, right? THAT is why we need to pass laws to prohibit these DANGEROUS companies (which, ugh!, the BASTARDS, put profits above people!)!!! We must pass new laws to retract “Section 230” and FORCE the evil corporations to provide us all (EXCEPT for my political enemies, of course!) with a “UBIFS”, a Universal Basic Income of Free Speech!
So leftist “false flag” commenters will inundate Reason-dot-com with shitloads of PROTECTED racist comments, and then pissed-off readers and advertisers and buyers (of Reason magazine) will all BOYCOTT Reason! And right-wing idiots like Damikesc will then FORCE people to support Reason, so as to nullify the attempts at boycotts! THAT is your ultimate authoritarian “fix” here!!!
“Now, to “protect” Reason from this meddling here, are we going to REQUIRE readers and advertisers to support Reason, to protect Reason from boycotts?”
Yup. Basically. Sounds rough. (Quote damikesc)
(Etc.)
See https://reason.com/2020/06/24/the-new-censors/
True free speech now comes from TRUTH Social! Thanks, Trump!
It's hilarious how impotently furious you are that conservatives took your advice and started their own social media sites. You're literally obsessed to the point of posting this same gibberish in every single comment section at Reason.com for the last 2 months and the site hasn't even launched yet.
Not seeing where I’m “furious”. Behind my lame, repetitive teasing of right-wingers here who would use the government to force privately owned sites to publish user posts they don’t want to, is the serious point that the free market is solving the problem by providing a place for right-wing speech.
You're a passive aggressive little bitch, I'll give you that, so this is as close to "fury" as you ever get. Until I ran across people like you, I didn't think it was possible for anyone to be more obsessed with Donald Trump than Donald Trump.
“Behind my lame, repetitive teasing of right-wingers here”
Hey, at least Dee’s admitting what shes trying to do here!
Of course, ask her next week if she’s here to tease her enemies and she’ll deny it, claiming to be above it all.
One of the very first things Mike Laursen did when it appeared here is admit that its purpose was to shill for the left
Was that before or after she changed he name to White Knight and stole a bunch of people’s handles to teach Tulpa a moral lesson about…stealing handles?
Before
Hey sarcasmic,
Nobody read this bullshit copypasta when you started using it 2. fucking. years. ago. Isn't there anybody at DemocraticUnderground who you could follow around and pick up some talking points from within the current presidential administration at least?
Damiksec is a Perfect One Who Never Makes Mistakes! If you prove Damiksec to be WRONG, it will NEVER take back its errors! I do readers a favor (including NEW readers), by warning them NOT to bother to argue with a Perfect One! It is a WASTE of time!
Are You also a Perfect One? You stick together with Your Fellow Perfect Ones? What magazines do YOU think that we should be FORCED to buy?
Compared to you, sarcasmic, Lennie Small is a perfect one.
If he’s irrelevant, you can easily mute him or otherwise ignore him.
Just like you do when you spend 40 posts per thread following around JesseAz and Mother's Lament, right?
And Ken.
He was utterly obsessed with Ken.
Mike C Lionson is infatuated with Ken. And often involves challenging Ken’s logic using emotion.
LOL, I have them muted and they follow me around.
Don’t take my word for it. It’s quite easily verified.
And muting you now. I’ve now seen your other comments on this page, and you are clearly trolling. Bye bye.
The only thing more gratifying than running you off to your little echo chamber is knowing that you will continue compulsively reading everything I type here and seethe for me like the pathetic little simpering bitch you are.
turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a TDS-addled piece of shit and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
His pathological lying is unfortunately one of his more redeeming qualities.
Clearly laborers living rent and utility free is the ideal situation from the Koch/Liberaltarian perspective. A few gallons of idle fuel to stay warm or cool enough, a pack of cigarettes, a six pack of cheap beer and a tasty chalupa from a nearby food truck can be financed at well below minimum wage. Pick up a couple orphans and the government will send you 500 bucks a month. To your PO box of course.
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You assume higher taxes will “solve” homelessness. California has the highest progressive tax rates in this country while COLA adjusted highest poverty rates.
Democrats creating highly paid bureaucratic middleman does nothing to “solve” homelessness.
BTW, that upstate NY shelter dilemma was taken care by the city. No one froze to death.
Fixed.
Come on. There are a million ways to not solve homelessness, lots of them barely more destructive to society than making it a crime.
Government has tried all of them, on the public dime. For them, it's the perfect problem: capable of generating lots of viewpoints as to what's to be done, and yet completely unsolvable in the long run. Needs moar money!
There are several roots to Homelessness. The traditional one has been the Crazies, but that isn't what has been yielding these latest tent cities.
Drug addiction and persecution is an obvious exacerbator of homelessness. Certainly, get rid of prohibition and many people on the margins will allow people looking for jobs to get them.
Eliminate many zoning rules that prevent multi-family dwellings will HELP, but not solve the problem by allowing more supply. As will ending loose money supply policies that lead to inflation, which heavily impacts wage workers.
But the most important thing is to understand that there is a new nature to homelessness that has started over the last 5 years, specifically in response to these homestead laws, and as an exploitation to it. In the 80s and 90s you had an entire subculture of 16 - 30 year old kids who just floated around the city, crashing on friends couches. Party all night, sleep or do odd jobs all day, and find the next party and sleep it off.
This culture has been replaced by getting an old, barely functional RV and parking it on the street. I nearly cried when I saw this behavior transported to my home town of Denver. At one of my old apartments, the cul-de-sac next to the parking lot had been totally converted to an RV park. And these aren't crazies, or down on your luck families. These are adult-kids making a choice. EZ-Ups, grills and corn-hole games were set out along side the RVs basically turning the area into one big party zone. They occupy these spaces like "Occupy Wall Street"- because they CAN not because they must.
I was homeless for a half a year. I learned in that time that there are three kinds of homeless people: People like me who were knocked off their feet but had the ability to get back up, people who like the lifestyle and people who can't help it due to mental illness and/or chemical dependency.
Only the latter needs attention. The first will take care of themselves and the second doesn't need help.
I thought Obamacare would take care of the last group. They can get free health insurance now!
"I was homeless for a half a year"
The perils of alcoholism, kids. Drink in moderation as alcohol can be far more dangerous than weed or mushrooms.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/09/opinions/canadians-fear-us-democracy-collapse-obeidallah/index.html
Even Canadians fear US democracy could end soon
Hey MammaryBahnFuhrer!
When the USA gets the 1-Party TrumptatorShit that You lust after, and hundreds of thousands of libertarians and democrats come swarming into Your Canuckistanistanistanistan… Are You gonna be lusting after sending them back to the USA, to be tortured and-or killed for their wrong-think and wrong-votes?
Give sarcasmic some credit here, this is the most up to date article he's posted in years. Nobody tell him which party is in control of the executive and legislative branches of the US government during this very scary and very serious collapse of democracy that is sending the American multitudes fleeing to Canada.
Is your tinfoil hat downloading the "vibes" from Germany in 1932, perhaps?
And he promptly goes for the non sequitur proving Refugio's point.
Proving Refugio's point that if it's not happening yet, it can never happen? WHERE did You go to stupid-school, Oh Great Queen of the Echo Chambers? If You really think that "licenses" help much, there's some school licenses here that need to be examined VERY closely!
Again, what did that have to do with the topic?
MarxistMammaryBahnFuhrer, Your mental deficiencies are NOT my problem! If You willingly REFUSE to see or comprehend, as You apparently willfully do, I can NOT help You, Oh Queen of the Echo Chambers!
As expected of ᛋᛋqrlsy, he actually listens to CNN.
Canadians don't fear US democracy collapse. That happened way back in November 2020.
I agree, you should quit drinking if you can't even prove if trump won an award. ALL I am asking is your proof that Michigan "MAN" of the year even exists. It's hard for me to prove a negative. But it is easy to prove a positive, just tell me who won ANY Michigan "MAN" of the year award, trump and/or anyone.
The official title is Trunalimunumaprzure of the Year.
You seem to be the only person on the planet that gives a shit. You are a very special person.
Even a homeless person could look up Mich. "MAN" of the year award, probably within minutes, it is making you look sad when you can't do it in a week. Sad "MAN".
So are you claiming that Trump didn't receive an award from the Michigan Republicans?
Take a break from your alcohol presentation and research the "MAN" of the year award, it should only take a few minutes, "MAN", and you can get back to your alcoholism sermon, "MAN".
Sure thing, "Man".
Say Reichᛋᛋqrls, when are you going to stop lying about the award?
You and Trump suffer from "the Dunning-Kruger (DK) effect", which is the phenomenon which describes how people with low ability are too incompetent to recognize their own incompetence. Bankrupting 6 casinos where every game has an over-all guaranteed winning edge is a perfect example. The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. You THINK you know, when you don't have a clue.
This from a guy who links to Salon. Also, you don't seem to understand what Dunning-Kruger actually is and you're misapplying it.
You remind me of sarcasmic when he misuses "tu quoque".
Yes, I do, you are too stupid to know that you are stupid, "MAN". Changing the subject doesn't help you find ANY proof of the "MAN" of the year award; you should be researching to keep from looking stupid. Most ignorance is evincible ignorance. You don’t know because you DON'T want to know.
"MAN" that fits you perfectly, "MAN"'.
"you are too stupid to know that you are stupid"
Ouch, lol.
"there are three kinds of homeless people"
Yup. My point is that the people "who like the lifestyle" are enabled and emboldened by these laws and regulations that let them essentially annex public (or even private!) property for their own use.
This "lifestyle" and people who engage in it aren't fixed quantities. There is a supply and demand curve. The number of people willing to engage in this lifestyle at a given "price" changes depending on what that price is. If it is very difficult for them to find a place to squat, there will be less people than if you make it extremely easy.
The length of your stint of homeless changes quite literally every time you tell the story, but then chronic drug and alcohol abuse will do that to your memory. Also becoming a permanent welfare case and finally qualifying for section 8 isn't exactly "getting back up", but making sure pieces of shit like you aren't on the street causing more trouble than you're worth is the price the rest of us pay for civilization. You're welcome.
This explains a lot. You are a useless waste of skin.
When I looked up homeless shelters in New York State (after the reason hit piece on the city), it read like Expedia. “Find the best homeless shelters in New York”. Non working by choice , kids of non working hippies. The real drug addicts OD and the mentally ill really need help.
Blue Cities are now completely dysfunctional and have created highly paid city employees to collect a paycheck for whatever it is that they do and hand out 300/400 bucks a month to the homeless. San Francisco pays them and Denver probably does too.
More to the point: you can't solve homelessness by directly supporting it and turning it into an institution.
And by doing so, we make sure that many of the people directly involved do NOT want to solve homelessness.
I had a friend get really mad at me for saying there would always be homeless people. That it was part of the human condition. He insisted if we just government hard enough we could take care of these people.
Even if you offered a free bed to everyone - some would refuse.
Totally OT post: Cancel culture (speech micro-management over THE most trivial aspects of speech) by the left, now mirrored by cancel culture on the right!
Defund the FBI if their speech isn't precisely approved of, by MEEEEEE and My Tribe!!!
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fbi-slammed-texas-synagogue-hostage-taker-not-related-jewish-community
'Corrupt' FBI should be 'eliminated' for statement on Texas synagogue hostage taker: Critics
Critics are slamming the FBI as 'solely focused on destroying the domestic enemies of the Democratic Party'
By Emma Colton | Fox News
Who will protect the poor FBI from criticism?
Oh yeah, this retard. ^^^
Hey Vulgar MadSheMale...
I thought the "Back the Blue" and "Lawn Odor" crowds would back the FBI, not the terrorists and hostage-takers!
The FBI simply reported the FACTS: That the hostage-taker made NO specific demands related to the "Jewish community" specifically!
So now the "Crazy Trumpists from Berserkistanistanistanistanistan community" wants to defund the FBI, so that hostage-takers and terrorists can have free reign? The terrorist hostage-taker is DEAD, so why worry about it? Are ye members of the "Crazy Trumpists community" now going to elevate this terrorist lady to be "Saint Terrorist, Smiling Down on Us From Above and Beyond the Beyond the Beyond", alongside Saint Insurrectionist Babbitt?
The other day I read that, according to Trump, Jan 6 was a complete inside job staged by the FBI to distract people from the stolen election.
https://news.yahoo.com/trump-claims-couldnt-lost-2020-183024521.html
Trump claims he couldn't have lost the 2020 presidential election because his Arizona rally boasted thousands of attendees and had 'cars that stretch out for 25 miles'
Why bother counting votes any more? Just attract a YUUUUUGE crowd, exaggerate the numbers, and crown yourself POTUS!
(PS, to complement your YUUUUUGE crowd, also declare that 30 million or so, whatever it takes, of the voters who voted against you, were all "socks" of 3 or 5 actual voters, just as you are my sock, or I am yours, whichever it is lately.)
Meanwhile tens of millions of people believe him. Heck, the majority of posters on these comments believe him. Many would kill for him. It's fucking nuts.
What is hilarious was the sham "audit" in Arizona - paid for by GOP Trump supporters and performed by GOP Trump supporters.
They found nothing. No fraud.
Yet the Big Lie rolls on among Trump cultists like Jesse, Sevo and ML.
Lol. No fraud? This is the idiocy you continue to push despite being linked to multiple judicial rulings and multiple examples of illegal votes and indicted people.
It is amazing.
Yes, but what is even more hilarious is that SPB is a pedophile who posted kiddy porn to Reason, and was banned for it. He thinks we won't remember, and so he comes back ignoring this fact repeatedly hoping that just maybe he'll find some acceptability for his odious temptations.
There are countless other lefty trolls at reason to fight with. It is better if SPB is not one of them.
You QAnon Trump Trash all sing from the same shitty hymnal. All you have left is lying like your Dear Leader taught you.
turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a TDS-addled piece of shit and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
But he's not lying. You actually posted child porn links here.
You're aware that Overt, quite vocally, disliked Trump, right? For a long time. Never changed the tune about Trump.
Nobody is lying. You posted child pornography at Reason.com and got your account banned for it. You did that. You. Shrike/Dajjal/AddictionMyth/SarahPalin'sButtplug/SarahPalin'sButtplug2 posted dark web links to hardcore child pornography at Reason.com using your SarahPalin'sButtplug handle and got banned for it. That's the truth. When you claim that you did not post child pornography on Reason.com you are lying. Because you're a liar. And a child pornographer.
Funny how you call him and me and jeff trolls, but you've never called out the continuous flow of lies from JesseAZ, Mother's Lament and company. Why? I think it's because you like their politics so you think it's ok.
"Funny how you call him and me and jeff trolls"
I did not call you and jeff trolls. I have called Mike a troll (because he is) and implied SPB is a troll. But understand, I am specifically going after SPB for posting CP on this site, and then acting like it never happened while pretending he has some sort of grasp on what is good and right. As a father, I think it is important people understand this.
"you've never called out the continuous flow of lies from JesseAZ, Mother's Lament and company."
WTF are you talking about? I am defending you in this specific thread.
And I was just defending Chemjeff the other day:
https://reason.com/2022/01/13/theres-good-reason-to-think-the-omicron-wave-will-peak-soon/?comments=true#comment-9304085
Could this be one of those situations where you don't give Reason- er, Overt credit when I write things supporting your views?
When I know about an incorrect position, I try to point that out. But when you and the trumpaloos start getting snippy with each other, I do tend to tune out. Just to set expectations here, Sarc: I am not going to follow your "You suck! No YOU suck!" threads and fact check that nonsense. I have a job.
Nobody call you a troll. They call Jeff and Shrike fifty-centers and paid shills, but it's you who gets called troll.
Probably because you're a self-declared troll.
sarcasmic
August.12.2021 at 4:45 pm
I only show up to watch the clowns duke it out while tossing in this or that provocation. Bread and circuses. This is my circus.
sarcasmic
September.10.2021 at 12:14 pm
I like to stir shit up. So what.
Or possibly it's because "saying mean things about my beloved Democrats who I must compulsively defend against any and all criticism" is not actually "a constant stream of lies", it's just information you don't like. Like how you shit a brick and throw drunken temper tantrums every couple of days when people post "Fuck Joe Biden" or "Let's go Brandon". Also considering that you just went to bat for one of this site's oldest troll accounts that got bounced for posting child pornography in order to own the imaginary Trumpistas hiding under your bed, this is incredibly fucking rich.
You were homeless. Shut up and sit down. Betters are talking.
"...He thinks we won't remember, and so he comes back ignoring this fact repeatedly hoping that just maybe he'll find some acceptability for his odious temptations..."
turd doesn't 'think' anything of the sort; turd simply lies and hopes to get away with it.
turd lies; if anything turd posts isn't a lie, it is purely accidental. turd lies.
It is amazing the amount of liberal retardation it takes to believe 2020 was the cleanest election ever despite multiple indictments, multiple judges ruling on legal election changes, the money funneled to leftist election officials, the thousands of double voters and other questions you deny.
How is biden working out for you anyways? Get what you voted for?
Illegal election changes*
None of this can compare to the Pillow Guys claim a few days ago that he has proof of 300 million Americans in on the election theft!!!
If you do the math on that, it means all the Trump supporters here were in on it, little kids were even in on it!
(Our Canadian Trump supporter may or may not have been in on it. Lindell didn’t say.)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/01/12/are-you-one-1-11-americans-mike-lindell-doesnt-want-arrest/
https://www.thedailybeast.com/mypillow-guy-mike-lindell-punts-timeline-for-trump-retaking-power-as-august-conspiracy-theories-get-wackier
MyPillow Guy Punts Timeline for Trump Retaking Power as Conspiracy Theories Get Wackier
https://www.salon.com/2021/08/22/mike-lindell-still-in-trumps-good-graces-has-new-prediction-reinstatement-by-new-years/
The Lord Trump didn’t return to us as scheduled, but the Second Coming is now re-scheduled. You can TRUST us THIS time, for sure!
The Lord Trump DID return to us faithful ones, but He did it in an invisible way! Hold strong in your Faith in Him!
The Lord Trump didn’t return to us yet, this is true! It only did NOT happen because YOU were not faithful enough, and didn’t send Him enough donations!
The Lord Trump didn’t return to us yet, but He DID miraculously protect us all from the VERY worst forces of Evil, which is Der BidenFuhrer! Hold fast in your Faith… Lord Trump will come back VERY soon now! Especially if you send Him more money!
The Lord Trump moves in Mysterious Ways! All will be revealed SOON! Especially if you have Enough Faith to DONATE till it HURTS!
Salon, WaPo and Daily Beast links. Why not post straight off of the DNC website?
These are the same two chucklefucks who called out LibertyPatriot for OAN and Breitbart links.
Salon, WaPo and Daily Beast ALL say that breathing air containing oxygen is GOOD for you!
You going to STOP breathing now, Oh Great Queen of the Echo Chambers?
The entire WaPo article is based on what I think was supposed to be a parenthetical that Lindell threw off during an interview. Since they truncated the quote and there's two sets of ellipses in it it's hard to tell. But it's fun to watch Mikey at least make a pretense of objectivity by linking to a "respectable" newspaper, meanwhile sarcasmic, being too stupid to know he's not actually helping, jumps in to match him truncated, ellipsis-filled quote for quote from explicitly left-wing and partisan publications.
I don't care what your source is, just that it verifies that trump won "MAN" of the year. You can do it, school children home schooled could do it within minutes and you can't do it in a week? Come on "MAN". You can't do something an 8-year-old can do in 5 minutes? "MAN" you are embarrassing yourself. "MAN".
@Refugio Nab
You're like the tenth person to refute ᛋᛋqrlsy's Salon article, but watch the old retard say it never happened when he posts it again tomorrow.
You seem a lot more concerned about Trump reappearing than anyone else, sarcasmic. It's all you've talked about literally every day of your "life" for 6 years now. Trump was only in office for 4 of those years. Even the psychotic left wing rags you link to exclusively gave up the hunt a year ago. God knows you can't think, so just follow their lead.
Here, Tulpa / Mary Stack...
THIS might help you! https://www.webmd.com/women/guide/yeast-infection-treatments-prescription-drugs
Here, sarcasmic/dbruce
THIS might help you! https://www.alz.org/help-support/caregiving/stages-behaviors/late-stage
300 million Americans? Christ, that's nearly as many people killed by guns since 2007!
It is amazing how you, shrike, jeff, Mike are the only ones who ever mention trump here whole calling others trump cultists.
Youre broken leftists.
It’s funny to try figuring out who you’re replying to, since each of the accounts you named are muted.
I remember back when the e difference between the vote count and the exit polls was evidence of a stolen election: https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1583226877/reasonmagazinea-20/
Democrats scream “stolen election” every time they lose. They really have no place criticizing republicans for it only last time.
Nice deflection. Any acknowledgment that Trump has been selling a huge lie?
No more huge than the previous ones.
Really? He is still making it the centerpiece of his rallies.
Stacy Abrams still claims to be the legal governor of Georgia and Hillary Clinton still claims the Russians stole the election from her. What's the statute of limitations here?
If Trump conceded the election today, it would have been 4 years earlier than anyone’s conceded Russiagate.
I’ll keep watching and see what happens.
Really? Literally “anyone”?
Any Democrat anyway, Mr. Ferocious Sealion.
I’m sure there’s someone that was all in on the Russia hoax like all you lefties here that’s admitted they were wrong, but I’ve never seen it.
Which lie is that? Think carefully before you answer, and remember that Stacy Abrams is the duly elected governor of Georgia.
Mother's Lament: ᛋᛋqrlsy-dbruce is chasing me around and trying to get me to leave through harrassment. Kind of like what he did to Chuck with the KAR sock
What is the deal with mother's lament and you and me? Here is what I researched, ᛋᛋqrlsy, or SQRLSY One or A ᛋᛋqrlsy-dbruᛋᛋe double post. Hakenkreuz Swastika and Nazi emoji Waffen-SS Belt Buckle - RZM 155/40 ᛋᛋ - Militaria Plaza
ᛋᛋ Reichsführer AlcoluS ᛋᛋ - TF2Center "ᛋᛋ" is often used by worthless fascist morons, otherwise known as neo-Nazi's, on their Bio, Handle or Username. –What do the characters on DumbFuckᛋᛋ's ...Adolf Hitlers ᛋᛋ Waffen ᛋᛋ - Vbox7
Just asking for your take on this.
Mother's Lament is demented! To understand demented... REALLY understand demented... You have to BE demented!
Did you know that as a flounder fingerling (fishlet?) grows up, one of its eyeballs migrates from one side of its face to the other? And you though zits as a teenager was bad! My point is, to REALLY understand the growing pains of a flounder, you have to BE a flounder!
To understand the dementedness (and, frankly, evil) of Mamma, you have to BE demented and evil! So trust me, you REALLY don't want to TRULY understand!
Evil is unrelenting and cannot or will not change. The best that you can do is to warn the fence-straddling bystanders. Staunch the flow of the poison, that is.
thanks, demented explains a lot.
You've resorted to samefagging your own trolls.
How embarrassing for you, ᛋᛋqrlsy.
You're too stupid to be here. Why don't you try reddit? ===>
Stage #1: Convince yourself that ALL of those who oppose your authoritarian impulses (whether they are commenters or voters) are just “socks” of 1, 2, or 3 voters (commenters)… That WE, of the RIGHT Tribe, are CLEARLY in the overwhelming majority! The rest of them are merely “mice nuts” in numbers!
Stage #2: Call them vote-stealing Demon-Craps! Get ALL of your fellow authoritarians to agree that vote-stealing Demon-Craps are sub-humans, parasitical nematodes, or worse!
Stage #3: Have an orgy of killing, and steal all of their property!
So MarxistMammaryBahnFuhrer the tribalist witch-burner…
So how long till you feel that you’ve built up your tribalistic lies enough, sufficient for You (and Your fellow hordes of authoritarians) to be justified when You come over here and kill me, and steal my property? Why do You want to steal my property? I DO own MANY books, but they are CLEARLY too long and complex for You to read and comprehend!
The TDS-addled spastic asshole is still spewing his sewage?
Shit in Shit out.
Some folks are intelligent, well-informed, and benevolent enough to competently discus ethics, morality, and politics. Others? They literally know how to talk shit, and little if anything else!
Good, Admitting you have a problem is the first step Shiteater.
Wow, what literary talent and rapier wit! Let’s see if I can match or exceed it, with some OTHER brilliantly smart comments that I have created just now!
Fuck off, spaz!
You eat shit, you said so yourself!
You’re a racist Hitler-lover!
Take your meds!
That’s so retarded!
You’re a Marxist!
Your feet stink and you don’t love Trump!
Your source is leftist, so it must be false!
Trump rules and leftists drool!
You are SOOO icky-poo!
But Goo-Goo-Gah-Gah!
Wow, I am now 11 times as smart and original as you are!
Everyone is smarter than you ᛋᛋqrlcasmic d.bruce. You're easily the biggest fucking retard here.
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. even 8-year old's could look up the Michigan "MAN" of the year award, probably in less than a minute. I suggest you quit drinking if 8-year old's are making you look bad. Again, ALL I am asking is your proof that Michigan "MAN" of the year even exists. It's hard for me to prove a negative. But it is easy to prove a positive, just tell me who won ANY Michigan "MAN" of the year award, trump and/or anyone.
"just tell me who won ANY Michigan "MAN" of the year award"
Trump.
Not even a pitiful try... CITE? Date, time, place and who gave it to him? I have no trust in your "OPINION". You blew that when you accused me of lying, "MAN". I am only taking proof, get on it "MAN".
Trump won it, ᛋᛋqrls.
dbruce has been clogging the comments on EVERY article with many off-topic posts about Trump supposedly claiming he won a "Michigan man of the year" award. At this point, I don't care whether dbruce is misquoting Trump or whether Trump was mixed up or lying a couple of times several years ago. dbruce presumably supported Biden, who was both a liar and frequently confused about reality _before_ senility began.
This many posts about one obscure incident show that dbruce is not only totally nuts, he is screwing up the comments for every sane person. He's muted. Those who cut and pasted their response to his posts into so many places are also nuts.
You must have found the "MAN" of the year award, or you wouldn't be harassing people here. Let me see it "MAN". I think everyone now see that there is only ONE person on this thread who can't even look up "MAN of the year award. Come on "MAN" you are looking ridiculous. You can't even post to dbruce. Now I see your problem. Nothing in the world is MORE dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant, "MAN". Prove that you are correct, it should only take a few minutes, "MAN". Take a little time to prove your stance, I have proven dozens of times my side, you have not even cited ONE source, "MAN". If you keep up your ignorance, everyone on this site will see you as the dumbest person here.
Better be unborn than untaught, for ignorance is the root of misfortune. "MAN" you must have found something about the "MAN" of the year award, even a retard would have had scores of proofs by now, yet you have produced nothing, are you retarded? Too stupid? I think so "MAN", Go to any google site and type in "MAN" of the year award, and let google do its magic, then you're halfway done. It is embarrassing you can't even follow a 2 or 3 step solution.
Ignorance is the mother (Lament) of all evils, "MAN".
No, ignorance is ᛋᛋqrlsy.
NOTHING is more terrible than to see ignorance in action. The truth is out there, google Michigan "MAN" of the year. The truth will actually jump out at you, "MAN". Ignorance is the night of the mind, but a night without moon or star. I wonder about liars who use Nazi symbols, it is a bad combination.
You're so mad that Trump won an award. Crazy.
Poverty and homelessness are the default states of mankind. What is unusual is the riches the average person enjoys.
So searching for the causes of homelessness and poverty is like searching for the causes of darkness and silence.
Cavemen never sought shelter said sarc. Even animals do dummy.
You are misreading what sarc means here. It was only by their action that cave people (etc) bettered their life from this default condition. Understanding that your default condition is worm food, dying cold, sick and hungry in the dark helps to clarify a basic point: You aren't owed a place to live or food to eat. If someone provides that to you, you either owe them something in return, or they have done you an unbelievable good out of generosity, not obligation.
JesseAZ intentionally misreads everything I write. He's an attack troll. Nothing more.
Yup, I tried to give Jesse another chance this weekend, and it went exactly as sarcasmic described it.
Jesse knows what he is doing.
I wanted to tell you you're Charlie Brown and he's Lucy with a football, but you weren't going to listen.
Thing is, I've never once seen him get called out for his continuous lies by any of the pious conservatives here. Why? I've got him on mute but I suspect it's because he bleats the conservative mating call "Fuck Joe Biden" and all his fellow Trumpians swoon.
Never once, huh?
I have told you this before- I did call out those guys back in the day. It didn't work. So I started ignoring them. When they talk civily I respond back. When they don't I ignore them.
Later I moved onto folks like you, asking you to stop feeding the trolls and just blindly attacking folks like Ken who at least make an effort to avoid low-value posts.
None of that shit worked, so I don't know what to tell you. Do you think this place will be better if *I* start parachuting into threads with non-sequitor threads, "Hur dur, all you trumpaloos..." That will make things better?
Trumpaloos. I like that.
You should, you've literally used the term hundreds of times.
Oh, and just because I want to watch you go into a histrionic bitchfit, Fuck Joe Biden.
You two very serious people just can't catch a break with all these J6 insurrectionists making up lies using the actual words you've said.
"I tried to give Jesse another chance this weekend"
Who the hell are you to deign to give people "chances"?
Your whole point to being here is to post ActBlue talking-points and harrass people who speak poorly about the Democratic Party.
I will help you with a little head start, Trump’s claim is vague enough — he hasn’t provided an exact year or the name of the organization that supposedly honored him — that it makes it nearly impossible to entirely disprove. But the responsibility to back-up political claims rests with the politicians who made them, and in this case, neither the White House nor Trump’s presidential campaign has provided any information on the president’s boast. Side note: Trump puts ALL his awards on the walls of his golf courses, even his fake Time magazine cover, which they forced him to take down, nobody has ever seen this "Man" of the Year Award. If any such proof ever emerges, we’ll update our story. I just checked and no update to his lie.
Trump won it, ᛋᛋqrlsy.
"MAN", if you got proof, show it, no one is going to believe your "BLUFF". There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that MY IGNORANCE is just as good as your knowledge. "MAN", take a few minutes and prove your way out of ignorance.
Did that second chance involve you lying about your knowledge of Joe Rogan and his guests?
Sarc is exactly right here. Especially the point about it being a default condition. And the more important point is that if it is the default condition, then you have no right to anything more. The second you insist that people have a right to more than this default starting position, is the second you draft others into whatever slavery-light shell game attempts to deny this reality.
It isnt a default condition hand hasn't been in centuries. Kids have adoption agencies, foster systems, orphanages, and other shelter avenues for them. The default are these centers now. It is only once they turn 18 or run away that they become homeless. And those tend to be done through choice.
Now you may argue a parent who keeps their kid in a state of homelessness but that is the choice of the guardian and not the child.
To expand. Would you call thirst and starvation a default condition because it requires action to eat or drink?
Yes absolutely. This is key- if you don't do these things to better yourself, you are going to die of thirst or starve. If you do not go out and gather berries, or go out and find water to drink you will die.
Understanding this, it is easy to see why anyone providing these things to you is doing you a service. They are fully within rights to demand something in return, and you are not within your rights to expect those things to be given to you.
I'd say it is tragic...but yes. You have no right to expect me to do anything for anybody else. Homelessness requires a home to be provided...given that the homeless are not doing so for themselves for a multitude of reasons.
Those orphanages are not the default condition of humanity. As Sarc said, the reason they exist is because of the riches that humanity has produced. And that is largely due to human ingenuity and adaptation, which is empowered by strong property rights and free choice.
If we accept that foster care is the "default" condition, then there is an obligation to provide it. But there isn't. The fact that anyone in this day and age can find a coat for free (via charity) doesn't suddenly make it the default condition. We should never take that for granted.
Sarc is right here, and don't let your hatred of him detract from the message.
He can't admit I'm right because that would mean he's responding to what I actually say. He has never done that. Ever. He only responds to shit he makes up, then accuses me of being a liar when I call him out on it. It's all he's got. He's a troll. Period. The sooner you realize that and ignore him the less time you'll waste responding to him.
I've never met someone so lacking in introspection and wrapped up in unwarranted self-pity as you.
I've never met someone so stupid they couldn't even use GOOGLE. Facts DO NOT cease to exist because they are ignored. Come on "MAN".
I've never met someone so stupid
Let me introduce you... ᛋᛋqrlsy meet sarcasmic, sarcasmic meet ᛋᛋqrlsy.
You've now both just met the stupidest fuck you'll ever meet.
The one who made the Mother's Lament post is in the running for MOST stupid in the US award. This is how stupid you are, just prove that trumps "MAN" of the year award exists, it's that simple. Even a retard could do it. Living is Easy with Eyes Closed, "MAN".
Wasn't anything you said, it's a Heinlein quote you crudely paraphrased and reposted. Years ago when you were lucid you used to at least credit the whopping 6 people whose half-remembered quotations comprised your entire political philosophy.
My point wasn't that charity is bad. It's that wealth creation is good.
He's crudely paraphrasing a Heinlein quote that he's too drunk and/or stupid to remember. It used to be pretty popular around here and was among his repertoire of about half a dozen slogans and quotations that constitutes the full depth of his study of politics and economy before Trump got elected and he went full barking mad.
Next up, huge parking lots, complete with restrooms, showers, and kitchens, for those living in their cars to park in, with 24-hour security and free medical and dental care, at a cost of just $25,000 per person per year.
$25,000 each per year? I think you dropped a zero.
Pretty sure I could provide those services in a no bid contract environment. Homelessness may be tragic for some. But can be very profitable for others. I could serve humanity and buy that vacation home in the islands I've had my eye on. It's a win win for all involved.
No no. You can’t have capitalism solving problems. That might make people think they don’t need government.
Remember that many collectivists react with an inverse-Reagan when they hear someone say, "I'm from capitalism and I'm here to help."
Why not? There are already RV parks and trailer parks. People have lived in movable homes for millennia.
As Sarcasmic said, this is the wealthiest and most peaceful time in all of human history.
Business of all kinds are literally begging for workers, even unskilled workers.
If you want a job, there are plenty to choose from.
People are homeless because they have mental problems or choose the be homeless.
So the problem will never be solved
It depends on what you mean by solved, and what other principles you are willing to compromise.
We could have zero people living on the street if we arrested everyone and put them in camps. Libertarians principles (and snark) aside, the contingent that is mentally ill will be housed only if others take charge of their lives. So either ad hoc individual actions (Adopt a bum!) or return to publicly-funded insane asylums.
That would of course depend on their vaccination status.
Ahem. Unhoused
Nope. This entire article is entirely wrong.
The idea that you can park your vehicle (or pitch a tent) on a street corner and suddenly annex that piece of land for your own uses is not only non-libertarian, it makes a locality completely ungovernable.
Mr Ciaramella says, "But their solutions have amounted to little more than rousting indigent people from one spot to another." Proof? Ain't got none. Data? Details? Nope. Just a silly platitude. Is there any possibility that making it harder (or impossible) to just annex common grounds for personal use might lead people to find alternate solutions?
"Homelessness" is not a solvable problem, unless you are willing to violate many tenets of liberty. Suburban streets turning into tent cities where people are unsafe walking *is* a solvable problem. And making it near impossible to roust campers from their spot on curbs directly prevents that solution.
I don't believe it is government's job to solve homelessness, but I understand people who believe otherwise. Nevertheless, solving homelessness is a luxury in whatever "Maslow's Heirarchy of Government" we will agree upon. Prior to tackling homelessness, ensuring the proper management and regulation of Public Goods such as parks, sidewalks and motor-ways must come first.
The cure for homelessness is wealth creation. It's government getting out of the way and letting people engage in economic activity without having to ask permission and obey commands.
The cure for homelessness is wealth creation.
Yup exactly right.
Uh, sure.
We have plenty of wealth creation now. Do you really mean wealth redistribution?
Pretty sure he means government allowing people to create their own wealth. That's what I mean anyway.
Filling out the paperwork so you could start ollecting housing vouchers, food stamps and SSI is not exactly "creating your own wealth", sarcasmic.
> Do you really mean wealth redistribution?
He means trickle-down lol
'...He means trickle-down lol"
He was addressing someone above the 6th grade level and got you instead.
Fuck off and die, shitbag.
And here you leftists prove you have no concept of modern homelessness. If you're willing and able to work there are programs to help you, if you're physically unable there are programs; but if you're mentally unwell, a hardcore drug addict or just don't want to live by society's rules then that's the modern homeless to a large degree. You are enabling addiction, indolence and suffering by your need to feel good while actively doing harm.
"The cure for homelessness is wealth creation. "
I disagree. I mean, it certainly helps, as does liberalization of drug laws (that punish people for mistakes in ways that alter their ability to earn a living) and zoning laws (that prevent the creation of low-rent housing).
But a significant number of people aren't interested in doing what is necessary to secure long time housing. As I noted elsewhere, there is a complete subculture of kids that just move around house to house sleeping on couches, and they have moved to just squatting on street corners. These people used to be called vagabonds and hoboes. They will always exist.
Go look at the sub-reddits for /vanlife and /camperlife. There are huge numbers of people just living life driving around and parking in places, or proudly displaying their "homes" which are generally some Frankenstein tarp/RV/Easy-up combo. On vanlife, there is a post right now bitching and moaning about being hassled for parking in a parking lot.
Don't get me wrong- I don't mind if people choose this life. But when you make those choices, society doesn't owe you lenience and the ability to disproportionately exploit common areas for your personal use. *shrug*
The solution to homelessness is allowing people the opportunity to create enough wealth to not be homeless anymore. It's allowing those who have wealth to spare to help others without consequence. It's not occupational licensing, minimum wage, or shutting down soup kitchens.
Again, even with abundant and accessible wealth, there are still people who will chose to be vagrants.
The reason I point this out is that people will continue to look at these vagrants and say that "Capitalism has failed" because it couldn't force a subset of people to prioritize a steady shelter over whatever else they are doing with their lives.
I said above that in my experience there are three kinds of homeless. The temporary, the vagrants, and the fucked up. Temporary will help themselves. Might seek help from churches or something. For vagrants its a lifestyle. They like it. So let them. The fucked up could use some help, but they'll fuck it up. So fuck 'em.
"...The reason I point this out is that people will continue to look at these vagrants and say that "Capitalism has failed" because it couldn't force a subset of people to prioritize a steady shelter over whatever else they are doing with their lives."
As a (largely) market-driven economy, we are one of the few which can *afford* bums.
It is possible to starve in the US, but you have to work at it.
Lots of folks in my neighborhood park their cars on the street- sometimes for extended periods of time. There’s no law against it here. Should their cars be towed and sold by county government?
Mixed feelings; would you allow people to store their other belongings on public property? If not, why their cars?
I understand the need for temporary parking for commercial or social reasons, but why should the public pay for the space required to store your vehicle on the street?
It's your vehicle; provide storage for it. Don't rely on me to provide storage for mine and then pay for the space to store yours.
You can't solve homelessness period. Including throwing billions at it. You can provide jobs and training. That's it. Anything more is just useless. A certain segment will choose to be homeless.
But billions are spent on liberal front groups to try to end it. These are political groups. Seattle spends 50k a homeless person and still has a problem, yet funds a ton of leftist propaganda during election season.
As for crimes, if a homeless person kills someone they absolutely deserve to be charged, like happened on LA. There many politicians pushed this same theme of not criminalizing homelessness after 2 of them committed murder. Is the timing if this article in response for this reason? To hide the dangers? It seems close to the government and AP initially refusing to say the Islamist who took hostages in a synagogue had no antinsemeric intentions.
Do better.
But the Homeless Industry in Seattle employs hundreds of professional caring people. Why do you want to kill jobs?
Progressives that graduate from a private liberal arts college with a degree in Woke Studies, six figures in student loans, a desire to live in the cool part of the city and the need to drive an electric vehicle are going to further fail in life if they are compensated for their market value of labor.
Yep. Forcing people to work--and paying them market wages--is slavery.
Drugs won the war on drugs, poverty won the war on poverty, homelessness won the war on homelessness.
Progressive response: how 'bout best out of seven?
Terror won the war on terror, but with a twist: it went viral.
4-0, it's a sweep
Homelessness shouldn't be illegal, but camping in parks and living in libraries should be or we are surrendering our public spaces, intended for the entire community as a positive experience, to a very few desperate individuals who through their lifestyle destroy that community benefit. That is not an acceptable outcome.
.
Certain new legal principles, based on good intentions, passed in the late 70s and 80s which made it difficult to enforce loitering rules and for 3rd party persons or institutions to commit people to mental facilities. The result is our streets abound in not only drunks and the increasing numbers of drug addicts, but mentally ill people who can barely take care of themselves. This is a national problem, not regional, state, or community based and the places with the best weather and most money attract those capable of moving.
First reasonable thing I think you've ever posted.
Institutions for the mentally ill are terrible places. That's why we don't do that anymore. However homelessness is indeed a result. What is the solution? I'm not sure. But I don't believe it's throwing money at them. Give a man a fish or teach a man to fish. But what if for whatever reason he can't learn to fish? I don't know the answer.
The answer is to understand the priorities of a government. If a government is going to own property held in trust for the public, then its priorities are to safeguard the management and proper operation of that property- just as your priorities are to keep your house fixed before you go off to Peace Corps.
When you try to alleviate homelessness by making rules and judgements in direct conflict with those base priorities, it fucks everything up. Homelessness should be something you tackle AFTER the bills are paid, not instead of paying them.
"Institutions for the mentally ill are terrible places."
No argument. But homelessness is, honestly, worse. We took a sad situation and, arguably, made it worse.
It'd be better to bring back asylums and attempt to improve those over basically sending the mentally unstable to deal with their own issues, which they likely are not able to do so.
We have to realize that good solutions do not exist.
We have to realize that good solutions do not exist.
That's basically what I mean when I say I don't know the answer.
Unannounced press visits are real time monitors for mental or addict institutions in 2022, via internet. It is humane and would jumpstart city economies.
So much lost revenue and livelihood to business in this country (customers don’t want to deal with the mentally ill or addicts, carjackers or crime). What kind of parents are going to let their teens work on the front lines in these areas? destroying bike lanes, streets, parks, homes and recreation for everyone that takes risks and pays taxes. It’s a mess.
The main reason mental hospitals are terrible places is that everyone living there is mentally ill. Just because they are crazy, many of them make life miserable for everyone around them - both the other inmates and the staff. Even if you can somehow hire caretakers that remain caring and professional in the face of continual provocations, the patients will make it a terrible place for each other.
Moving these patients out to alleys, abandoned buildings, or a squatters' village in the park won't alleviate this. It just removes the caretakers that endeavored to keep the peace and ensured that those who are treatable with drugs got those drugs. For the tiny minority of actually violent mental patients, it greatly increases the chances that they'll obtain and use a deadly weapon - and they are no longer contained in an institution, so everyone is now in danger. And the non-violent but annoying can now easily annoy the good citizens that are going to vote on funding for care of the indigent mentally ill. It's amazing that there are _any_ public funds allocated for anything but locking up these people.
Those mental institutions were not the only residential options that disappeared. Boarding houses are near extinct in the US now. As are SRO hotels. Those two alone comprised close to 30% of the housing stock in the US in 1900 - started declining after WW2 - and rapidly disappeared from the mid-90's on. Combined with massive subsidies and distortions that have created a series of housing bubbles since then that have driven up housing prices but NOT housing supply.
Those were precisely the housing options for people who didn't fit the nuclear family unit model, who were mobile, who didn't have the money/inclination to spend on furniture/etc, and who were often marginal to begin with. That demographic hasn't really changed much since 1900 except that Americans are now no longer mobile (which may be a consequence of favoring immobility and homeowner serfdom). The subsidies that tilt investment decisions towards housing and real estate are also the same ones that tilt that demographic into either homelessness or one paycheck from homelessness.
"...and homeowner serfdom..."
Now tell us about "wage slaves". you fucking ignoramus.
Oh, and:
"...one paycheck from homelessness."
This bullshit was a constant lie written by a lefty shit Chron columnist (but I repeat myself); now repeated by the lefty shit JFree.
No, asshole, hardly anyone is 'one paycheck' from homelessness outside of assholes who have made really stupid life choices.
It would be no surprise if that group included you; you specialize in stupidity.
How about privatizing the parks and libraries? Then camping in them doesn't have to be illegal; trespassing already is.
Homeless trespassing on public property is adjacent to insurrection. And we already know what the acceptable progressive solution to trespassing on public property is.
Don't you even social justice? Determination of criminal activity depends on (1) intersectional score of perpetrator/freedom fighter, (2) political goals and purpose (to be determined by modern media), and (3) self-perceived danger to whatever target groups wants to feel threatened.
Agree. The HUMANE solution is to build federal homeless encampments or trailer parks in areas of the country where land values and water are dirt cheap. Areas of the Appalachians, Ozarks are so cheap that sanitation, counseling, mental health services could be provided.
It’s the humane and numerate (yes, the population numbers) thing to do. Im an independent voter, but I really don’t want this the city’s to become Juarez
This country’s cities to all become
World's Highest And Lowest Inflation Rates 2021
Inflation rates are rising in every country but not equally so
https://www.gfmag.com/global-data/economic-data/worlds-highest-lowest-inflation-rates
Wow, Peanuts. The US had the world's 68th worst inflation rate in 2021. That's a lot of spittin' tobacky price increases.
The problem is this - how do we blame Biden for worldwide inflation?
It's almost like production was stopped in 2020 for a pandemic and now demand is surging across supply chains.
It must be Biden's fault!
Yeah but SPB is a pedophile who was caught posting child porn to the Reason comments and banned. That wasn't Biden's fault. It was SPB's fault. So he should go away and never come back. And if you are going to converse with him, understand that you are conversing with a pedophile- one who thinks he can just ignore this crime and people will forgive him and treat him as normal.
Meanwhile Overt is happy to jump on the bandwagon and bash whomever the conservative trolls don't like while never calling them out on their lies. Why? He likes their politics. If JesseAZ had posted kiddie porn Overt would excuse it because of politics. Principles shminciples. Just another Trumpian.
"Meanwhile Overt is happy to jump on the bandwagon and bash whomever the conservative trolls don't like while never calling them out on their lies."
This is untrue, and I have now shown you several times where you are wrong. Are you going to cop to that, or just ignore it? You are becoming the people you hate- just making up a picture of me in your head.
" If JesseAZ had posted kiddie porn Overt ..."
1) You don't know what I would do, because that situation has not occurred.
2) But all that said, SPB *did* post child porn. And you are not only here defending SPB, but chumming around with him. So what does that say about *you* Sarc? Does it say that you like SPB's politics? That you will excuse his crimes because "principles shminciples"? I mean, by your own logic....
What is up with the defense of the objectively deranged screeds of SPB? And if you don't post the kiddie porn link then it didn't happen? Despite the corroboration by everyone who was a regular at that time.
The deflection tactics get stupider every week.
I don't give a shit about SPB. I really don't.
What I don't like is people who follow others around saying "Don't be this guy's friend because this is what I heard about him."
Even if what was heard is true, it's still dickish.
Even if what was heard is true, it's still dickish.
Discrediting someone based on historical evidence is being a dick?
That is a cubic buttload of projection right there.
This isn't Perry Mason.
The integrity of a speaker has relevance outside the courtroom. Those who display a consistent pattern of ignorance, fallacy and lies deserve derision and scorn.
That would be terrible for sarc.
Yet I never see you calling out JesseAZ, Mother's Lament and the rest of the conservative trolls that consistently display ignorance, fallacies and lies.
MAGA 2024!
Yet I never see you calling out JesseAZ, Mother's Lament and the rest of the conservative trolls that consistently display ignorance, fallacies and lies.
Asserting such a claim with zero evidence speaks to your integrity. You can't even come up with a single example?
It is known!
That's why you've literally defended every single post he's made in this thread.
Like when you baselessly accuse JesseAz of lying and compulsively reply to every single one of Ken Shultz's posts because you're still seething about him muting you months ago?
I'm really, really glad that defending shrike, of all fucking people, is the hill you've chosen to die on.
Sarc, not that Overt needs my defense...Overt is not insulting you. Some do, fairly annoyingly but so be it, but all do not. If you wish to get insulted by more people, insult people who are not doing anything to you personally.
Again, Overt is many things...Trumpian is not one of them. No more fond of Trump than you seem to be.
No shit he's not a Trumpian. That was my point.
Point being he's acting like one and should stop.
Or maybe you should stop white knighting for one of this site's oldest troll accounts that, you know, POSTED FUCKING CHILD PORN you disgusting sack of shit.
Lying is the last refuge of QAnon Trump Trash.
turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Alright, did you or did you not post links to child porn, get an entire article's comment thread nuked and your old handle banned?
Of course I didn't.
turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd got his ass tossed off this site for linking to kiddie porn.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
(1) Ignore.
(2) My account got hacked.
(3) My account was spoofed (but my account got banned).
(4) Uggh. Trump! Or haperinflation. Or peanuts!
He drunken shitposts then has to white knight for himself with a sock. When not white knighting for the resident pedophile.
Wait wait wait... What if obl IS spb?
Okay, lets reword this because I see you're being a weasel.
Did the account "Sarah Palin's Buttplug" without a "2" on the end post links to child porn, get an entire article's comment thread nuked and the handle banned?
turd is entirely too stupid to weasel his way around your question; why even attempt to be clever when outright lying will do just fine in his warped reality.
turd was caught (with links) the morning after he was busted and banned by Reason, he admitted it on showing up with a new handle with some lame excuse regarding linking the wrong site (or some such bullshit), and has been called on it since.
About a year ago, he started lying about it, I guess hoping newbies would see the pathetic piece of shit as a victim instead of the pedophile he is.
Fuck turd with rusty garden implements; turd lies. It's what turd does.
This, from a handle-thieving self-justifying "Christian Theology Expert" who will gladly SHOW you the "Christian" way of identity theft! And then pretend to NOT understand, when someone says "that wasn't me that posted that"! Lying, EVIL hypocrite!
Hey MammaryBahnFuhrer… How is Your new org coming along? Are You gaining many new converts and perverts to “Expert Christian Theologians for Identity Theft?” And where do we sign up for your newsletter?
In https://reason.com/2021/03/21/why-we-still-shouldnt-censor-misinformation/#comment-8818090 Mamma fesses to her being an identity-thief and sock!
chemjeff radical individualist
March.21.2021 at 4:27 pm
Uh oh, I think you left your sock on.
Reply
1. SQRLSY 0ne
March.21.2021 at 5:06 pm
Yeah, sigh.
Hey MammaryBahnFuhrer, Expert Christian Theologian! Did Jesus appear to You in a vision, and tell You that ID theft is a GREAT, wonderful thing? Or ARE You Jesus, returned to us, maybe?
sarcasmic honorably uses only his own sockpuppet accounts and then cross-posts with them in a drunken stupor and claims he was hacked.
But parodying him is somehow the last straw.
Leave these other's alone, you need to prove that trump won "MAN" of the year award, quit stalling, It should only take a few minutes.
ALL I am asking is your proof that Michigan "MAN" of the year even exists. It's hard for me to prove a negative. But it is easy to prove a positive, just tell me who won ANY Michigan "MAN" of the year award, trump and/or anyone.
Alright, DID you or did you not post that trump won "MAN" of the year award? Let the rest of us know your proof, "MAN".
There is nothing MORE frightful than ignorance in action. Not able to take a few minutes to prove your point, but NO, "MAN". It takes a very long time to become REALLY stupid. In case you have forgotten, you are looking for ANY information about the "MAN" of the year award, ANY, remembering that "MAN", in case you haven't been noticing, "MAN".
Alright, did you or did you not find the documentation for you and trumps "invisible" "MAN" of the year fabrication? The MOST violent element in society is ignorance. Stop what you're doing for a few minutes and google "MAN" OTY, you will be amazed what you will find. You can do the child porn later, "MAN".
The MOST violent element in society is ignorance... You can do the child porn later
Cripes, Sqrlsy. No wonder you're so fucked up.
Ignorance speaks loudly, so as to be heard; but its volume proves reason to DOUBT every word. It's called dementia, he says anything that comes to his head, truthful or not. 30,573 lies, most of them DON"T make any sense. He has a terrible memory and that's why he never goes under oath, courts have a bad opinion of that. Trump vs Obrien where trump sued and had to take the stand. He couldn't remember ANYTHING. He also lied 30 times. It will be a WORLDWIDE must-see TV when he takes the stand under oath. You must have googled the "invisible" "MAN" of the year award by now?
The TDS-addled spastic asshole is defending pedophiles? Wow!
He has previously done this with chaff and redirect. Typically by extreme sarcasm or walls of copypasta.
"Lying is the last refuge of QAnon Trump Trash."
Notice that SPB doesn't actually deny this. Because he can't. He posted Child Porn and he was banned for it.
Instead, he tries to call me a Trumper and QAnon.
The times he responds to it he does so with deception.
Lying is your first refuge.
Oooh, you were doing so well until this part.
"It's almost like production was stopped in 2020 for a pandemic"
Poor form. You sound like one of those Drumpf supporters blaming his dismal 2020 GDP number on the virus.
In fact, I suspect this is Impostor Buttplug posting. Real Buttplug repeatedly made clear a once-in-a-lifetime pandemic and lockdowns had no measurable economic impact; everything bad was the result of Drumpf's misguided policies. Like tariffs.
#LibertariansForBiden
PS — Also Real Buttplug would know #DefendBidenAtAllCosts mode is more effective when you cite the Warren Buffett Net Worth Index, which is at plus $8.49 billion for the young year.
turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a pathological liar and a TDS-addled steaming pile of shit besides. entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
“Supply change”
"Cities don't make it easy for private charities to step up, however."
The legitimate purpose of government is to protect our rights, and that includes the right of businesses to the quiet enjoyment of their property.
"Quiet enjoyment includes the right to exclude others from the premises, the right to peace and quiet, the right to clean premises, and the right to basic services such as heat and hot water"
----Legal Dictionary
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/quiet+enjoyment
If your next door neighbor is playing music at two o'clock in the morning, so loud that you can't sleep on your own property, then it is perfectly appropriate for law enforcement to protect your right to the quiet enjoyment of your own property, and it's the same thing if a business owner can't use the property he or she owns or leases for commercial purposes because homeless people are using all the parking and camping on the sidewalk in front of his or her store.
Incidentally, your neighbor can't blare music in the middle of the street, so loud that it keeps you up at night, because that's public property either. People certainly shouldn't be permitted to violate your rights because they're homeless.
The city might offer commercial building owners the sidewalks and parking in front of their buildings in exchange for a maintenance and thruway easement. If the courts won't protect our rights because the violators are on "public property", then short of overturning that decision, the solution is to privatize that public property.
The solution to homeless is that homelessness isn't a problem so long as they aren't violating anyone's rights, or, in other words, the problem of homelessness is only a problem insofar as homeless people are violating people's rights. If the homeless overrunning city parks is a problem, I suggest the city donate the parks to a private consortium to administer them. It's not like the taxpayers are free to enjoy the use of a city park when it's overrun with homeless people anyway.
"the problem of homelessness is only a problem insofar as homeless people are violating people's rights"
What if the rights of the homeless are being violated? is that not also a problem?
"the solution is to privatize that public property. "
That will simply foist the issue and the attendant legal expenses and hassles on to the shoulders of the property owners. Evidently, you haven't given the matter much thought in your haste to trot out neo--liberal cure--alls.
I’m still waiting for communist utopia.
It's the reverse of Ken Schultz's cure-all, but equally simplistic. Make all private property public.
… starting with self-ownership.
What could go wrong, oh idealistic dreamers?
"self-ownership."
It's nonsensical, and not in a good way. I have no problem owning things. Homeless owning themselves is not going to solve anything.
Seems incredibly sensible to me.
Can you explain why? Repeating slogans doesn't help.
I define self-ownership as having a right to decide what I will do, and having a right to and responsibility for what I do, including the benefits. As opposed to, say, a slave, owned by others, who cannot make those decisions, and cannot have a right to the benefits of what he does.
Makes sense. What’s so unsensible?
We call that freedom. That's why the civil war is characterized as the war between the slave owning states and the free states. A person delivered from slavery is said to be free.
Self-ownership IS freedom you absolute boob.
"Self-ownership IS freedom"
And freedom is slavery. I've read 1984, too.
Freedom = self-ownership, but ownership carries responsibilities. If you own a dog, you must feed it, control where it pees and poops, clean up as necessary, keep it from biting the neighbors, and keep it from annoying the neighbors with excessive barking. If you own a car, you must buy or rent a place to park it without blocking traffic or stealing other persons' parking spots, and before you run it on a public road you need liability insurance and licenses.
If you own yourself... The requirements may be ill-defined, but they certainly include not being a public annoyance, finding a way to feed yourself other than theft or robbery, finding a place to poop and pee that does not become a smelly nuisance and a health hazard, and finding a place to sleep without trespassing on private property or hogging public property so others cannot use it for its intended purposes. Most of the homeless are unable or unwilling to meet these requirements. They are incapable of self-ownership...
They do break down into several groups, with different problems. The group that used to be called "hoboes" - sufficiently sane, healthy, and honest, but not interested in permanent jobs or homes - only need the return of SROs and other affordable short-term rentals, and jobs that can be taken day by day without the paperwork that most employers today will spend a couple of weeks on before you can start work. In other words, they need the government to butt out.
But then there are the ones with severe mental problems, that would have been institutionalized 50 years ago. Instead, they've been given "freedom", but are incapable of meeting the responsibilities that come with self-ownership. And because the institutions that once housed such people have been dismantled, for the most part the only choices left are to leave them on the streets and creating problems for the people that work to support themselves and our government, or jail. Neither one of those has much chance of curing mental illness, so the problems remain and grow.
But so foisting them decentralizes and depoliticizes the problem, allowing a variety of solutions to arise, which others may learn by.
The problem will remain politicized as long as the homeless lack the financial resources to buy these privatized public parks. Until then it's classic proles vs bourgeois.
I thought proles were the working class.
Has capitalism been so successful that proles are the “too high all the time to function” class?
They’re not very good revolutionaries.
Proles are the unpropertied under class. Lumpen proletariat are the beggars, criminals and outcasts that probably make up the bulk of the homeless.
"They’re not very good revolutionaries."
Maybe not. A lot of the French resistance to the Nazi occupation were lumpen types, however, so credit where it's due.
Where do insane drug addicts fit in?
They are among the outcasts. The point is they don't fit in.
I don’t think a lot of insane drug addicts taught on the side of the French resistance. It’s hard to be in a movement when you’re completely anti-social and out of touch with reality. I doubt they made a high percentage of outcasts in the French resistance.
To learn more about the Nazi occupation of France and those who resisted it, why not view the noted documentary film The Sorrow and the Pity? If you think they were all Randian type heroes you'll be in for a unpleasant surprise, though, so don't say you weren't warned.
The Nazis sent insane drug addicts to the death camps even faster than the Jews (except for the ones in the Nazi leadership, of course.) When you _cannot_ fit in, and your society kills those who don't fit in, revolution becomes the rational choice, whether or not there is any hope of winning.
That makes an insane drug addict in the Resistance more rational than the middle-class Jew that never made trouble!
"Quiet enjoyment includes the right to exclude others from the premises, the right to peace and quiet, the right to clean premises, and the right to basic services such as heat and hot water"
I don't know if this concept of "quiet enjoyment" can be fully justified from a libertarian perspective.
First, "the right to exclude others from the premises" simply follows from property rights. We don't need an additional term for that.
Second, "the right to peace and quiet". This sounds like a suggestion that we supposedly have a right to shut everyone else up. I don't think that can be right. What about their free speech rights?
Third, "the right to clean premises". Who cleans the premises? If a person wants to live on dirty premises, shouldn't he/she have the right to do so? I don't understand this one.
Finally, "the right to basic services such as heat and hot water". So property owners have a right to force others to provide them with heat and hot water? This sounds like a positive right rather than a negative right.
I understand the general concept - that property owners ought to be able to enjoy their own property - but I don't think that desire rises to the level of a *right* that should be enforced by the state via men with guns. In fact it sounds a bit like an attempt to extend one's property rights beyond the boundaries of the property.
If we're going to go with the strict libertarian analysis, the way to deal with the neighbor playing loud music at 2 AM is for the two parties to try to come to voluntarily arrive at a mutually agreeable resolution; barring that, then the next recourse is a tort, seeking compensation for the harm that was caused by the loud music (lost hours sleeping, for example).
In the case of homeless dudes camping outside your property, again, we shouldn't tolerate trying to extend property rights beyond the boundaries of the property itself. In this case the affected property owner would sue the property owner hosting the homeless encampment - in this case, the state - for damages caused by the homeless individuals to the affected property owner. Damages of course could include lost potential income from a business because of the homeless people outside discouraging patrons. But if there are no quantifiable damages then there is no case. I think that is how the situation should be resolved from a libertarian perspective.
"I don't know if this concept of "quiet enjoyment" can be fully justified from a libertarian perspective."
You seem to be confusing libertarianism with anarchy.
No, I am fine with a public police force, but from a libertarian perspective, it should only be used to mediate disputes between actual rights.
Hey, remember when you said that the cops were fully justified in blowing away anyone "trespassing" on public property?
That was pretty terrible as a take. He doubled down when called on it, if memory serves.
If ChemJeff is so stupid that he thinks property rights are indefensible from a libertarian perspective, that shouldn't surprise anyone.
Quite the opposite Ken. I am being stricter on the concept of property rights than you are.
Ken has you on mute. Me too. Mike as well. Basically all of us libertarians. If you're not a Republican you're a progressive, and progressives are evil. Libertarians who aren't Republicans are evil. And he doesn't tolerate evil. Meaning he's got anyone who isn't a Republican on mute.
Lol. The human centipede of libertarianism. You should compulsively reply to every one of Ken's posts to prove how unperturbed you are while simultaneously accusing everyone who disagrees with you of being a radical Trumpista and throwing drunken temper tantrums in defense of a known pedophile and troll who has been here since you were in knee socks.
Basically all of us libertarians.
You might want to look up the definition of 'radical'. That jeffy is not a libertarian is right there in his handle. Here is a great insight into the deeper meaning:
"All the other people of his time are attacking things because they are bad economics or because they are bad politics, or because they are bad science; he alone is attacking things because they are bad. All the others are Radicals with a large R; he alone is radical with a small one. He encounters evil with that beautiful surprise which, as it is the beginning of all real pleasure, is also the beginning of all righteous indignation."
https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/radical-word-history
The common thread among you and jeffy and White Mike is limited authoritarianism. A stated preference for use of force by the state, as long as it is involves a transfer of power from the strong to the weak.
This may shed some light on why nobody takes you seriously. Well, that and your dependence on logical fallacy for arguments.
"Today's sarcasmic screed brought to you by 'No True Scotsman' and the number 2."
Do you tell people you're a bully when you meet them or do you let them find out for themselves?
CTSP - Chuckles The Snarky Piggy
I have been honest from my first post and included it right there in the handle. My name certainly isn't Charles.
My original account has been stuck in internet Purgatory for 3 years, ever since I received an honest to goodness response to a comment from Reason's very own Robby Soave. My guess is that he tried to disable comments on just his post to avoid a cavalcade of nerd rage, but a lack of chicken blood and improper chanting caused the Reason.com website editor juju to go bad.
Fun fact: my very first post questioned the logic of Michael Hihn, who, even when his natural rights were most at conflict with mine, was still more libertarian than chemjeff and his car trunk full of bears.
You're just jealous.
Everyone is a bully except sarcasmic. Sure he's started fights with 36 others today but it's not his fault.
Everyone else are just being mean to him unfairly.
The man who realizes his ignorance has taken the FIRST step toward knowledge. Get busy and prove trump was lying and you were lying, and I was not lying. It is as simple as one, two, three.
Ignorance is the dominion of absurdity.
"Everyone is a bully except sarcasmic. Sure he's started fights with 36 others today but it's not his fault.
Everyone else are just being mean to him unfairly."
Needs to be repeated, especially as regards sarc, jeff, the asshole joe, shitfordinners, d-asshole and others:
If one or two people describe you as a steaming pile of lefty shit, well, they could be wrong.
When everyone (other than your idiot friends) describes you as a steaming pile of lefty shit, you are a steaming pile of lefty shit.
Fuck off and die
Hihn!
The common thread among you and jeffy and White Mike is limited authoritarianism. A stated preference for use of force by the state, as long as it is involves a transfer of power from the strong to the weak.
So you're an anarchist? I mean, unless you're an anarchist, everyone supports "limited authoritarianism" to one extent or another. Libertarians who are not anarchists support very, very, very limited authoritarianism in the form of a night-watchman type of state. If that is not good enough for you, then sorry not sorry for not entertaining your anarchist fantasies.
Philosophy class.
You appear to be confused.
Wow, Ken goes for the personal insult. Surprising.
Wow, Mike skins his knees in his zeal to suck cytotoxic's dick. Surprising.
The only excuse for disagreeing with Ken is being stupid, and stupid people aren't worth debating. So he mutes anyone who would debate him for being stupid.
Big words from a guy who spent a month chasing Ken around and harrassing him, just for headpats from Laursen.
Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being UNWILLING to learn, "MAN". Take a few minutes and prove that "MAN" of the year actually exists. If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.
Yes, yes, you're very good at harrassing too. Are you happy?
Ecstatic! I don't call it harassing, I call it educating with the truth. Ignorance NEVER settles a question.
CTRL C
CTRL V
Irrelevant response posted.
dbruce
Everyday. ad nauseam at ampm
Someone should probably clue him in that because a stranger owns a car doesn't mean he gets to enjoy using it, too. Quite the opposite!
No use attempting to explain arithmetic to an orangutan.
An orangutan understands that his banana belongs to him and is not for someone else's enjoyment! Try to take the orangutan's banana away, and he gets upset about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB0TVSTaEZw
Progressives are more like leeches sucking blood out of our backs. They think they're entitled to suck the blood out of our backs and that we're selfish for refusing to share.
As usual, jeffy wants to pretend that this discussion can be moved to the imaginary realm of thought experiments. As if an invasion of indigent drug users does not a direct threat to health and property. Hint: by definition, the indigent have to resort to theft to get their drugs.
Meanwhile, in Brookings, Oregon, where the state recently rescinded all criminal penalties for drug use, they are seeing a constant influx of traveling dingleberrys out of the SF-Bay area. Brookings is the very first town in OR you come to when travel up the coast from CA. Great place to get a free meal at a church and then use the beach like a human litter box.
n this case the affected property owner would sue the property owner hosting the homeless encampment - in this case, the state - for damages
A particularly ignorant statement as, if they are not barred from doing so, as a property tax payer, they end up footing the bill for their own suit. That is a lose-lose proposition.
Occasionally Lefty Jeffy enters some sort of diabetic trance induced by the second package of cookies and has flashbacks to his philosophy 100 class in college.
Oh, so we're going to play that game are we.
If I make an argument based on ideology, you'll complain it's not practical.
If I make an argument based on pragmatism, you'll complain it's not dogmatic and pure enough.
Whatever man. You don't like the argument? I don't really care.
Awww. Poor Jeffy.
There is no game. Your pontificating about property rights seemed particularly pointless.
You fail to grasp the concept that garbage migrates, imagine that people can behave rationally at 2 AM, and imagine bringing suit against the state for homeless camping on public property. Did I miss anything?
I literally do not understand that why does homelessness is being considered as crime?
Atrocious grammar should be a capital offense.
Yore correct; and your also onto something. I like you’re post.
Aye sea what ewe did their.
It wus gud.
To gud.
Ooops:
Two guud.
First won werks.
tomter: I _hope_ English is not your native language. My best guess is that you meant "I do not understand why homelessness is considered a crime?"
Homelessness per se is not a crime in the USA. Many of the things the homeless do are crimes. Part of these are because of poor ways of handling the challenges of living without an abode, from urinating in public to occupying a public space, blocking others from using it, and leaving it covered in trash and worse. Part of these are because many of the homeless also steal to support themselves. They generally do _not_ need to steal; American welfare is quite generous, and families that cooperate with the social workers can be as well off materially as much of the European middle class. But the homeless often do not tolerate the limitations on freedom and invasion of privacy that come with living on welfare. Many of them are too mentally ill to fit in, and some just choose not to put up with the welfare system (or the paperwork that comes with a regular job, even though they're able and willing to work for a living if no ID or tax information is required).
Finally, many of them frequently commit crimes just because they are mentally ill. They break windows, or draw graffitti - sometimes with their own excrement. They bother strangers who are just passing by. They crowd into private property uninvited and apparently cannot comprehend that they are being asked to leave. And now and then, one kills someone for no sane reason. This is rare, but it's something good citizens fear disproportionately because it is so irrational and unpredictable.
So most of the homeless could be spending most of their time in jail if the cops strictly enforced all the laws. There must be a class of them that try to never make trouble and could stay free under reasonable laws, but these ones are pretty much invisible as compared with the ones crapping in the street, or walking around muttering to themselves until they suddenly try to involve a normal person in their absurd conversation - which is scary if you think it just might be the one homeless person in town wandering around with a big knife and looking to find a reason to stab a stranger.
And of course, jail is one of the two worst places to treat mental illness. It's almost as bad as the street...
The homeless crisis is self-induced, by both "participants" and their advocates.
Point 1: Homeless people are people and subject to the same laws as all people. If those laws prohibit camping in city parks (or sidewalks) and defecating in public, then all violators should be prosecuted equally. No more intersectionality, class warfare special pleading.
Point 2: If seeing or just reading about people living on the street makes you sad, that's your problem. If you feel compelled to act, then go ahead. But coopting the public wealth--and the public legal system--to make you feel better is wrong.
"then all violators should be prosecuted equally"
Putting the homeless in prison would be a significant drain on public wealth, precisely what you claim is wrong.
What is wrong, if we want to guide our lives and government with universal principles, are economic efficiency arguments. What's next, paying homeless bums a government stipend not to piss on the sidewalk since it would be cheaper than running a cleaning crew?
Besides, prisons are expensive in part because of my second point about people wanting to avoid sad feelings.
So, your solution is prisons that are unpleasant enough to make people with homes sad?
Whether intentional or not, you seem to miss my second point. Let me rephrase: bleeding heart liberals have caused more problems than they have solved, driven by a motivation to make everyone feel better.
Objective reality, and often the most brutally honest way to deal with some people, does not give a shit about your feelings.
It seems you are more interested in making Liberals sad than finding a solution for homelessness. My point is that imprisoning the homeless under harsh conditions isn't a solution however sad it makes Liberals.
Mostly I would be happy to let everyone, including homeless people, do as they please, as long as they do not force others to do the same. And I would be happy to see everyone enjoy the consequences of their choices and actions.
And if that makes certain partisan groups, like liberals, sad, so be it.
" And I would be happy to see everyone enjoy the consequences of their choices and actions."
I agree with this common sense sentiment. Unfortunately not everyone is to be trusted to make happy choices and decent actions. Many of the homeless are not much different from infants. That's sad, I think, but reality, and I don't see the partisan angle. I don't believe that conservatives and reactionaries find any joy in homelessness. Anger seems the be the emotion behind most comments here, for example. Expecting the homeless to act like responsible adults is bound to lead to disappointment.
Point 1 really is the crux of it in a lot of blue urban centers. For a couple months last summer, there was an encampment on the sidewalk directly in front of my business in Denver. Any ordinary person would have gone to jail ten times over for the things we watched those people do.
The place was littered with stolen bikes and lawn furniture. Several of the men would openly masturbate right on the sidewalk. On several occasions, we watched them strip copper from stolen wire. They openly threatened us if we told them to move their shit from our property.
Every time the cops showed up, they’d tell them to move off our property and the public right away, but nothing else could be done. The police told us to contact city council. Have the neighbors contact city council. Their hands were tied.
Denver’s city council is so beholden to the activists that homeless crime committed in open daylight is tolerated.
I guess this is the roundup...
How much authority do some people want to turn over to the government in the hopes of not catching the flu?
Well, in Australia, it seems they'll allow punishment for thought-crimes:
"Djokovic lands in Serbia as questions arise over French Open"
[...]
"In the end, Australian authorities revoked Djokovic’s visa, saying his presence could stir up anti-vaccine sentiment and that kicking him out was necessary to keep Australians safe. He was deported Sunday, a day before the tournament got underway in Melbourne..."
https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-novak-djokovic-sports-entertainment-health-d736b70771525c190c1c58bb447b6b95
Ideally, the entire field would walk and Oz can live its choices. But sportsball performers tend to bend the knee.
Leave Kaepernick out of this!
Ha!
Couldn't the church pay the tab for them at one or more restaurants?
Couldn’t democrats pool their resources and help the poor instead of whining about the filibuster?
During the Obamacare debates but prior to it being rammed through congress, I had suggested the same thing. All the wealthy Democrats could have provided seed money for this healthcare system with their own funds given that it would be inexpensive, pay for itself and provide equal or superior care. And we know how that turned out.
'...All the wealthy Democrats could have provided seed money for this healthcare system with their own funds given that it would be inexpensive, pay for itself and provide equal or superior care. And we know how that turned out."
England's NHS on line two, please.
At the center of this, there's a question about whether homelessness is a problem for the government to solve.
Progressives and socialists may say yes, but libertarians and capitalists should probably attack that assumption from the very beginning.
Other problems that the government has no business solving include unemployment, healthcare, education, and food distribution.
Of course. But there are many issues like that, wherein although we disagree that it's a government responsibility, government has already been tasked with it, and it's possible that some government actions in that regard can be worse than others. We think schooling shouldn't be a government responsibility, but does that mean we have to sit on the sideline in the meantime with no suggestions about how government schools should operate, as long as they're operating them anyway?
Combating drug use shouldn't have been a government responsibility either, and the government's involvement made the situation worse for almost everyone who wasn't working in law enforcement. The solution to drug abuse, in that case, has a lot to do with getting the government out of the business of combating drug abuse.
I think we're looking at the same situation with education and homelessness. When I worked in a mental institution, we couldn't release patients onto the street--not even if they wanted to go back to the street. It was often the case that we'd have to place the patient in a home, knowing full well that the patient wouldn't stay there for more than a night because the home would require them to start drug counseling and wouldn't let them drink or use drugs or come in at all hours of the night high off their ass.
They could find more than enough services and programs to keep themselves fed. There were places for them to stay if they wanted them. Most of them would rather be on the street. There are church soup kitchens and EBT. There are some people out there who need help for a few months to get back on their feet, but there is also an overwhelming majority for whom the government is playing the role of "enabler". In drug rehabilitation jargon, an "enabler" is someone (often a wife, girlfriend, or mother) who keeps paying a drug addicts' bills and getting him out of trouble despite the drug use. They're actually preventing the solution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enabling#Alcoholic_or_drug_addict
Because homelessness is the government's problem to solve, the government is preventing a large number of people from suffering the negative consequences of their misbehavior. But in order for a lot of people to change their misbehavior, the negative consequences of their misbehavior need to be real. If losing your job, your family, and your home isn't enough to make you stop using meth, then the government sustaining you in perpetuity with welfare programs isn't the solution. It's a huge part of the problem.
So the details are of no import to us? Virginia Postrel did a whole , piece on the unfortunate tendency of radical libertarians (shared by radicals of all types, but she wasn't directly addressing them) to sit out issues because, not being in control of the agenda, all the major positions were so far away from our ideals. Her point was that engagement was a good thing in itself, and also that even if the difference in distance of the various options was only a metaphoric millimeter to where we want to be, it was not 0. And if things were so murky we couldn't tell which direction moved us closer to our goal, it was still good practice to pick a side at least in the medium term.
In the case of some existing government interventions, it would seem that the stingiest option is the best for us, but such an appearance may be deceiving. The stingiest may turn out to be more wasteful than a more generous choice, because the interventions are bound to continue anyway and nothing gets paid down. It takes analysis and some guesswork.
In the present case it seems the best option is to let institutions such as private charitable shelters operate with a free hand.
We're in a thread about a city, Seattle, where they have been incredibly accommodating towards their homeless population for years and years and years. The worse things get, the more they accommodate the homeless. They have sanctioned homeless camps? And still, on the rare occasion when the city does try to protect property owners, the courts appear to rule against them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_Seattle#Responses
I see two potential avenues for progress here.
1) The courts start protecting property rights.
2) Public opinion changes so that homelessness isn't the government's problem to solve.
There are no real solutions apart from those two.
Once Maduro and Chavez instituted price controls on food and nationalized food distribution, the only real solution left was for millions of Venezuelans to be driven out of the country by food shortages and starvation. My insistence that there is no solution to those food shortages that doesn't involve privatization and getting rid of the price controls isn't because I refuse to offer constructive solutions. There are no other solutions.
It was the same way with the drug war. We can oppose mandatory minimums, violations of our civil rights in the name of the drug war, and the militarization of the police, but if we can't persuade people to change their minds about marijuana being a problem for the government to solve, then nothing will change until the negative consequences of the drug war become so great, that people finally change their minds. If the negative consequences are never enough or don't impact the people who are voting, then things will never change.
In regards to homelessness in Seattle, I don't know how to override a state court that refuses to protect the property rights of commercial building owners and private residences, but I believe the people of Seattle can be persuaded that homelessness (like drug addiction) isn't the government's problem to solve. If we fail to persuade them, eventually, the negative consequences of the government's solutions (and the courts failing to protect people's property rights) will pile up so high, the people of Seattle's opinions will change--or they'll continue to suffer the negative consequences forever.
Yes, some policies may be better than others, and we should advocate the better ones, but there is no substitute for the courts protecting our property rights and voters who think homelessness is the government's problem to solve. There is no solution you can implement without having at least one of those things in your favor--because a refusal to protect property rights and the stupid shit in people's heads is the ultimate cause of the problem.
Look to Detroit and Venezuela to see how bad things can get before people are willing to change course. As bad as things were in Detroit between 1950 and 2000, when they lost half their population, they've still gotten worse since then--they've lost another third of their population in the last 20 years. There may be better and worse ideas that have been tried over the last 20 years, but until public opinion changes, the trend remains the same. And people who refuse to be persuaded by 70 years of negative consequences from their bad choices should continue to suffer because of them.
If Seattle's policies cannot violate the law of gravity without suffering the negative consequences, that's not because I'm ideologically rigid. It's because they stubbornly refuse to understand and account for the law of gravity.
Start a GoFundMe to buy the properties next to the woke judges, provide accommodations that will cater to homeless and then bus in the homeless.
You're an insurrectionist.
They would be able to relocate but wouldn’t get anywhere close to market value for the property they are leaving. Or if they stay, reduced quality of life. Exactly the issues facing the property owners that they smugly ruled against.
But the good "news" is that even with all the enablement in the world, the great majority of people don't end up like that. So there's a limit which we may be close to in many places as to how bad government can make the problem. They can pile some more expenses on the rest of us, but they may be close to the limit of what they can get away with there too.
The drug thing is unfortunately very resistant to reform. There is such a strong impulse now to prohibit, and the only questions on the public agenda are about what to prohibit, and what not. It's been such a long struggle to move cannabis out of prohibition, but the lesson doesn't generalize; it's not prohibition per se, the problem was that we've been prohibiting some good things, right, folks?
"Couldn't the church pay the tab for them at one or more restaurants?"
1. It would be a very unusual church that had the money to send everyone to restaurants. Restaurants are set up to make many different individual meals for many different people. This is far more costly than a soup-kitchen setup with one meal, take it or leave it - even if the restaurant meal was identical.
2. The restaurants would not want to serve a bunch of homeless. They look disreputable, they often smell, and they scare the paying customers. (And one restaurant manager in this town was killed by a homeless man. This man came into the place shouting nonsense, and when the manager asked him to order a meal or leave, he stabbed the manager to death.)
Are there countries that handle such situations better than most of the US?
In Cambodia, under the Khmer Rouge, everyone had a job!
How about countries more closely comparable to the US?
By analogy, . . .
They don't have nursing homes in Mexico the way we do in the U.S. In Mexico, sending your elderly grandparents to live with strangers is culturally disgraceful--like sending your young children off to live with strangers would be disgraceful in the United States only more so. Part of the reason why that obligation to their grandparents hasn't broken down in Mexico is because they don't have Medicare and Social Security in Mexico like we do in the U.S. Over a series of generations, Medicare and Social Security seems to made people imagine that taking care of your elderly grandparents is the government's responsibility.
I lived in a city of over a million people in Mexico, many of whom were extremely poor, but I didn't see homelessness like we have in the United States anywhere. There were some teenage runaways, but nothing like you see in the U.S. Without the idea that taking care of the homeless is the government's responsibility, that responsibility seems to fall on the family. Family ties are extremely important in a lot of other cultures--more so than they are in more socialistic cultures. If Mexico had social services available like we do in the U.S., I suspect that system of family obligations would start breaking down.
For the record, GDP per capita in the Yucatan was US $17,248 in 2018.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mexican_states_by_GDP_per_capita
In Los Angeles, GDP per capita was $68,834 in 2018.
I didn't see anything like the homelessness we see in LA when I lived in the Yucatan.
And the idea that the homeless situation in Los Angeles would improve to be like that in the Yucatan if only the standard of living in Los Angeles collapsed by 75% (to be in line with the Yucatan) would be ridiculous.
Cause and effect the other way around. Families take in multiple generations when there is no other option for the elderly or infirm. Given the option, both the elderly and young would opt for separate living if economics permitted. One problem having arisen from modern medicine is that the period of infirmity is no longer brief, but can drag on for years or decades; the old social contract between parent and child has changed into potentially decades of decrepitude.
The other effect of social safety net being family only, is that it causes people to have large families so that at least some children survive to become your retirement plan. Unfettered population growth is a formula for poverty.
"The other effect of social safety net being family only, is that it causes people to have large families so that at least some children survive to become your retirement plan. Unfettered population growth is a formula for poverty."
This isn't the only thing you have backwards, but one of the solutions to unfettered population growth is declining infant mortality rates. Because societies without Social Security and Medicare rely on their children to take of them when they're elderly, it's important for them to have a whole lot of children--so that more than one male will survive to adulthood and be able to support them. Cross culturally and throughout history, birth rates drop as the infant mortality rate drops. The other major contributing factor to declining birth rates is educating women. Cross culturally and throughout history, the more women are able to contribute to household income, the fewer children they choose to produce--even in patriarchal societies and even in societies where birth control is taboo.
Medicare and Social Security aren't the solution to population growth. Falling infant mortality rates and education for women is the solution to population growth.
In 1950, the birth rate in Mexico was 6.732 births per woman.
In 2019, the birth rate in Mexico was 2.117 births per woman.
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/MEX/mexico/fertility-rate
That dramatic decline was not because of the introduction of the Mexican version of Social Security and Medicare. It's mostly because the infant mortality rate fell and because they started educating their women for the workforce in earnest.
God you're a dumbass
"Seguro Popular" is more like Medicaid. It's for poor people, and it covers everybody if you go in to a (government) clinic. My understanding is that it does not pay for Long Term Care in a nursing home like Medicare and Social Security in the United States. Your grandma had a stroke, and she's in the clinic for treatment--and then she's coming home. In the U.S., grandma is in the nursing home--paid for by Medicare and Social Security--and she ain't never comin' back.
As a transition to a fully private system, I'd like to see us do something like that in the U.S., where you can go to a government ER/clinic for treatment--instead of forcing private hospitals to take Medicaid patients through their ERs. Some of the worst things about our healthcare system is that there is no private option. You can't go to a community hospital that doesn't take Medicaid patients because you need a Medicaid contract to be licensed.
We tried to close down the ER at our hospital because we were losing so much money to Medicaid patients, and they threatened to take our license away. Eventually, that private hospital lost so much money on Medicaid (and to a lesser extent Medicare) patients, that they eventually had to shut down as an acute care hospital and become a mental institution. Now there's no ER anymore, and anyone in the area with a heart attack or a stroke needs to go further than they did before.
"...God you're a dumbass..."
There are people here who argue in good faith and never otherwise; I certainly claim to be among them and challenge any of the lefty troll shits here to provide a cite showing otherwise. I'd suggest Ken is also in that cadre.
You seem to have been here a while; I'd suggest you direct your ire at those deserving of it.
In the UK, the homeless and indigent are given a dole by the government. They receive supplementary benefits if they are dog owners. The idea is that the animals provide companionship and shouldn't go hungry.
Why not give each pf them a mansion? Those virtues don’t signal themselves and a paltry dole seems uncompassionate. Barbaric even. Forcibly taking wealth from others and devaluing the used currency to buy support is really what government should be doing.
"Why not give each pf them a mansion?"
Write to your MP and suggest it.
I wrote to them and suggested anyone advocating for such virtue signaling would do better to pilot this at their own residence.
No Canada! Home of the beaver, the maple tree, animals and vegetables.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dssWxEh_gaQ
“ In the UK, the homeless and indigent are given a dole by the government.”
The ones capable of collecting it, that is.
Is someone claiming that the homeless aren't getting welfare benefits in the United States?
https://www.usich.gov/resources/uploads/asset_library/myths-homeless.pdf
How prevalent is homelessness there, and how much is this dole costing? If it's less prevalent and/or less costly than in some jurisdictions in the USA, then I'd say go for it because the infringement on liberty is less in the long run. Otherwise I'd be against it.
"and how much is this dole costing?"
Less than the dole given to the Queen, her children, corgies, swans, palaces and her retinue. Dog food is often the cheapest food available in the market, and their companionship can be priceless.
In some places of the US, people that want a home go to a location called a workplace, perform tasks called labor and receive a paycheck that can be used to pay for housing.
"receive a paycheck that can be used to pay for housing."
Now is not the time to reveal your homeownersexual proclivities.
You are so binary in your homeownersexual proclivity. Some folks rent.
"The restriction was a response to neighbors' complaints about a local Episcopal church. The county has no homeless shelter."
More proof that Government has no compassion and does not truly care about humanity.
Here is a solution:
EVERY elected official should be required to house at least one homeless person in their private residence. Members of the US Congress should be required to house at least four and it must be in their private residence.
Meanwhile...
https://twitter.com/ChuckCallesto/status/1482896676515942413?t=Xevjq1AiCz_VBTf-sDzS5Q&s=19
BREAKING REPORT: Salt Lake City Tribune Editorial Board Demands Utah Governor Use the National Guard to Keep Unvaccinated People in Their Homes...
My guess is SLCT editorial board doesn’t represent most folks in Utah.
No, but they do represent most people in media
Most people in the media have names and addresses.
Don Lemon. Matt Lauer. Charlie Rose. Jeffrey Toobin. Jayson Blair. Brian Williams.
Jeffrey “ Hey, look at my dick” Toobin
Glad to see him back in journalism. He has his finger on the pulse of what progressives really want.
BuT hUnGaRy!!!
https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1482682971375214598?t=O_XOhypuj-ae4ZvSSRKpsw&s=19
JUST IN - Compulsory vaccination in #Austria starts at the beginning of February for all citizens over 18, fines up to a maximum of 3,600 euros from mid-March - Chancellor Nehammer
MORE - Chancellor Nehammer claims vaccination is "the best guarantee to live in freedom," at a press conference. The draft law for compulsory vaccination will be sent to Austria's National Council next week.
“Accepting the Anschluß is the best guarantee to live in freedom. Sieg Vial!”
Relevant:
https://twitter.com/GigiGraciette/status/1482915322462019585?t=8BTIfoLn4swm5ipWemlQUQ&s=19
Prayers going out to the LA County nurse in her 60s who was violently punched and knocked to the ground by a transient this morning at Union Station.
Sources tell me she is fighting for her life.
@MarioFOXLA is there and will have the latest. @foxla
Suspect is in police custody.
Sources tell me he has a rap sheet with more than one incident of violence.
No name yet.
Meanwhile the poor nurse is in critical condition and was in surgery.
Sad to report that the nurse who was brutally assaulted in DTLA has died. She had been on life support and the news is not unexpected but family had to be notified.
LAPD Homicide will now take over case.
God bless her soul and grant strength to all who knew and loved her. @foxla
Victims of the homeless deserve our sympathies, sure, thanks much! So do poll (election) workers!
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-trump-georgia-threats/ Trump-inspired death threats are terrorizing election workers
Who knew Brad Raffensberger's wife was an election worker! Is she still terrified a year later? I'll bet the mere sight of a fire extinguisher gives her PTSD!
I see! So you’re saying that the Intergalactic Sub-Smegmonic Boogoidian-Strawmen-Hybrids have deployed booger-beams (Those unspeakable BASTARDS) and have hijacked your tinfoil hat! You have my sympathies, but no more… I have no good advice for you, sorry! Other victims of the Intergalactic Sub-Smegmonic Boogoidian-Strawmen-Hybrids that I have known? They all ended up on Skid Row, and I could NOT help them!
How dare you mock my genuine concern for a traumatized woman who was nearly raped and killed by hordes of Trump-loving insurrectionists 6 months into the Biden administration! This is a VERY serious matter, sarcasmic. If you ask me, ALL poll workers should be given state-issued fire extinguishers to quash this sort of savagery in the future. No secretary of state's wife should ever have to come within MOMENTS of being raped and killed by anonymous text messages!!!!
Stuff-Ugly-oed Scab...
If you ever decide you'd like to work on curing your evil mind (if you get tired of your self-chosen enslavement to the Evil One), start here...
M. Scott Peck, The People of the Lie, the Hope for Healing Human Evil
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684848597/reasonmagazinea-20/
People who are evil attack others instead of facing their own failures. Peck demonstrates the havoc these “people of the lie” work in the lives of those around them.
https://twitter.com/NewGranada1979/status/1483001006275248129?t=d7fj4_-YxCD_WjcNO7qYgw&s=19
REPORT: They REALLY want your children to wear a mask. [Pic]
Hmm? Of course I can solve homelessness by making it a crime.
This country has plenty of wide-open spaces. Building prison camps in rural areas sufficient to house a few hundred thousand homeless is not a difficult problem (we did it just fine with 1940s technology for 120,000 Japanese-American civilians), and arresting and convicting the homeless of crimes is exactly how one would order their removal to the camps in accordance with current standards of due process of law.
You might not like letting me solving homelessness that way, but it sure as hell would work.
Please don’t move problems largely associated with cities to rural areas.
https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1483005873035390981?t=_fCxvjGM9WJB3xoUK69nDQ&s=19
NEW - Germany: Robert-Koch-Institute shortens recovered status (immunity through natural infection) from 6 to 3 months after a COVID infection for the health pass and justifies this change with the "current state of science."
With how fast the science is changing, it seems like maybe we should be able to question if it is, in fact, settled.
https://twitter.com/TheLastRefuge2/status/1482920454952267777?t=rpG8gg6n6jG8WO4F0T8vQA&s=19
Vaccine Mandate for Cross Border Trucking Now in Effect, Mandate for Domestic Trucking Begins in a Week, Prepare Your Affairs Accordingly
[Link]
It will be interesting to watch Canadians starve to death.
Let them eat snow.
https://twitter.com/ConceptualJames/status/1482865145424617483?t=s0tcWgRVNHDcfM5gjRJusQ&s=19
They think the State owns your children.
[Link]
https://twitter.com/alessabocchi/status/1482806876987432961?t=gnrrA-B77Ih4rFonEo491Q&s=19
Wikipedia defines Glenn Greenwald as a “far-right American journalist”. So anyone who disobeys progressive orthodoxy in any capacity, irrespective of their contributions to the Left, is now automatically defined as “far-right”. [Link]
Same as it ever was. I'm old enough to remember the black face of white supremacy.
https://summit.news/2022/01/17/poll-finds-close-to-half-of-democratic-voters-want-covid-internment-camps-for-the-unvaccinated/
A national poll has found that forty-five percent of likely Democratic voters would be ok with the government “requiring citizens to temporarily live in designated facilities or locations if they refuse to get a COVID-19 vaccine.”
The figure was registered by Rasmussen Reports and the Heartland Institute, which also found that a MAJORITY “Fifty-nine percent of Democratic voters would favor a government policy requiring that citizens remain confined to their homes at all times, except for emergencies, if they refuse to get a COVID-19 vaccine.”
The survey also found that 48 percent of Democratic voters “think federal and state governments should be able to fine or imprison individuals who publicly question the efficacy of the existing COVID-19 vaccines on social media, television, radio, or in online or digital publications.”
"Designated facilities" is such a generous way of putting it. The truth is, they only want people locked up so that they have plenty of time to concentrate on their refusal to get the jab or possibly to concentrate on better things to do that question government edicts. With enough concentration, they'll see the error of their ways.
Every time I see these proposals they include "counseling". Creepy as fuck.
"Mass counseling" is also known as "reeducation camps".
When fascism came to America, it was waving a rainbow flag.
what are "the rights of homeless people"?
Same 'rights' as I have. Funnily enough, if I move my livingroom out onto the sidewalk in front of my house, the city will have something to say about it.
news article 7 minutes ago
...UCLA grad student, 24, is stabbed to death while working in LA furniture store: Homeless man knifes her in random attack before calmly walking out of back door...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10410375/UCLA-grad-student-24-stabbed-death-random-attack-worked-LA-furniture-store.html
That'll teach that dumb white bitch to flaunt her privilege in the presence of an innocent homeless black king just minding his own business.
Her white privilege was justifiably revoked.
CJ is straight up wrong. The enabling policies he supports have turned the public libraries into homeless shelters, created tent cities on the streets parks and public spaces, and made these spaces unusable for the general public. I have watched Seattle decline steadily over the last 20 years by embracing these policies and the homeless population rise in spite of low unemployment, lots of job opportunities and gobs of tax dollars spent.
You’re saying that if something gets subsidized, more of it will occur?!?!?!
SF Mayor London Breed blindsided!
Are the HyR bloggers taking Yule off?
MLK day. Staff is busy tying to find a Negro Libertarian.
They usually at least phone in a whitewashed hagiography of Malcolm X with a tie in to gun rights, or republish Frederick Douglass' Am I Not A Man? speech
They want to dress up in a gorilla mask and throw eggs at him.
Again?
The Black face of White Supremacy doesn't count.
“Yule” = MLK Day?
I never thought of it that way, but now that you mention it....
An easy solution would be to tow the homeless to the neighborhoods of the Supreme Court Justices. This ruling would soon be overturned.
I'm with George Carlin. Let them have the golf courses.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GchEbLSY9FY
NOMGC!
Praising the homeless seems to be the rage right now, but the reality is that many, if not most, are homeless because they are mentally ill
We had a homeless guy at the store where I worked, lived in his car in the parking lot. He would freak out every month or so and we would have to call police. Eventually he tried to run over people in the parking lot (which finally got him fired)
I don't know the answer, but we need to admit that they are a danger to normal people, they aren't just charming background scenery
This is why eugenics became mainstream thought. The argument was that we're in a scientific age where babies that would have otherwise died now not only live but reproduce. They're shitting in the gene pool. Need to scoop out the turds. Sounded great until people took it to its logical conclusion.
Which is why it is good, if you are someone who prides themselves on your flawless logical thinking (like, say, Ken), it is good to learn from engineers: check your answer against common sense, check that it is within reasonable parameters, plug your answers back into the equation and make sure it comes out to the right values. Use more than one technique to come up with an answer — do they all lead to the same answer?
If you find yourself supporting eugenics, or a childish grifter, or spending with no idea how it will be paid for — you are missing something in your thinking.
I love how Ken lives in your head. You're like an obsessed girlfriend.
Speaking of obsessed, shouldn't you be googling proof of of trumps lie about "MAN" of the year award. Better be ignorant of a matter than HALF know it.
The popularity of Critical Race Theory in our most elite institutions is how eugenics became mainstream.
Correct
But we're also on the verge of improving the genes directly.
I don't see what any of that has to do with "eugenics".
How was sarc to work with?
This is why I've long backed "SUVs for All".
Everyone deserves safe, comfortable transportation.
Plus it can double as a home if you find yourself homeless.
Plus it's cheaper than public transit projects (per rider), and pretty much any SUV is safer than a Prius or a Volt.
Plus it doesn't burden the renewable electricity grid when people get home from work, when wind and solar are less available (remember to "Keep California Golden" by using less electricity from 4-9 PM daily.)
Safe? No out of control Prius or Volt ever accidentally ran over a Dancing Granny.
Who is paying the liability insurance for all these SUVs? That's _if_ there's any insurance company willing to insure a driver who has no address, no driver's license, and cannot go through the process of getting one due to mental defects.
Yes, giving everyone an SUV - and probably fuel, insurance, tires, and repairs - would cost less than public transportation, but keep in mind that in most American towns, there are many more people using public transportation because they cannot drive safely than solely because of poverty. Perhaps we should shut down the buses and trains and use the money for Uber and Lyft vouchers instead.
Make gated communities illegal. Watch how fast these elite leftists continue to support these policies
You Can't Solve Homelessness by Making It a Crime
How stupid do you have to be to think you can "solve" homelessness using any method?
What's equally true is you can't "solve" (loaded word) homelessness by encouraging it and allowing it to proliferate.
Grow up.
I mean, you also can't solve it with the free market but you argue for that anyway so..
I guess you can always shoot yourself in the head with communism if nothing else works.
Or you can shoot yourself in the head with Trumpaloos-Gone-Mad, humping Trumpanzees gone-apeshit-mad, 1-Party "R" party TrumptatorShit! Fuck democracy; let's try mobocracy!
Hey Vulgar MadSheMale! Can you name me JUST ONE, one-party state (a one-party monopoly on political power) that led to long-term peace and prosperity?
You can fix it in a free market. You just have to try.
Have you tried?
How does a free market deal with crazy people?
They won't hold jobs. They will wander around, destroy property, and occasionally attack people
How does government deal with crazy people?
Badly.
Some crazy people get elected to Congress. OTOH, to become a Vice President on the Democrat ticket, you only need to be stupid, vicious, and immoral.
Hey Reason, THIS is how a libertarian might talk about COVID, vaccines, lockdowns and borders.
How is Glenn Greenwald a libertarian? He favors generally left-wing politics.
Are you confusing libertarian with "anti-authoritarian"? They are not the same.
Good news, you can get your covid vaccine and/or booster the instant you're out of your symptomatic phase after a COVID infection.
I mean really, can it ever be too soon to get a booster?
There are 420 comments. If that doesn't make this the most libertarian thread, I don't know what does.
Quote by creator of the PCR test:
Anyone can test positive for practically anything with a PCR test, if you run it long enough...with PCR if you do it well, you can find almost anything in anybody...it doesn't tell you that you're sick
That was a quote by Kary Mullis, the inventor of the PCR test.
Media fact check: Did Kary Mullis say this?
Well... well ok, yes he did... ok, so yeah he did say that, but there needs to be some context here. So... you need some context... by 'anything' he was speaking in 1997 and was at a conference about HIV, so even though *checks notes* he said "anything" what he really meant was HIV... there was no COVID in 1997, so he was talking about HIV, not COVID, even though he said "anything". And other experts told us to ignore that and assured us the PCR tests are 187% accurate.
Conclusion: FALSE.
Maybe the resident pedophile here is actually employed and works as a fact checker at USAToday.
If you know how PCR works, you can see that if you run it long enough you can "find" any sequence in there. Remember that you're feeding it a sample of the sequence to begin with. At any given replication, a certain amount of mispairing will take place. Therefore you will be reproducing a gene sequence that wasn't in there to begin with. Only a little bit will mispair at any given time, but the cumulation of error will eventually be enough for the entire probed sequence to appear to have been in there.
OK, so a medical testing technique has limitations. So?
If only the fact check had made your point, I wouldn't have laughed so hard.
There is something galactically karmic about this ruling. Hoover-Anslinger-Nixon-Ford-BushBush-Trumpanzee prohibition fanatics repeatedly wreck the economy with laws criminalizing production and trade. Suddenly their jackbooted jackals can no longer use asset-forfeiture looting to rob their victims of the last vestiges of chattel--for God, natalism, race suicide prevention and the Jihad on all forms of Happiness, however fleeting. Can you say Hooverville? It is Christian Front Amerika's most prolific export!
But... Butt they ALL love Baby Jesus, so it's OK!!!
https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2022/01/09/heres-where-christian-nationalism-comes-from-and-what-it-gets-wrong/
Here’s where Christian nationalism comes from, and what it gets wrong
It was religious fervor that drove the Jan. 6 mob
Hank, you are totally deluded about who repeatedly wrecked the economy. Laws criminalizing production and trade are favored by Democrats and other leftists, not by most Republicans and conservatives. (Nixon wasn't a conservative, and he proved it when he imposed peace-time price controls. He was a collectivist who, while in Congress, hated his brother collectivists in the USSR and Red China - and that fooled the stupidest conservatives into thinking he was with them.)
No, but we can keep our neighborhoods safe and clean by making vagrancy a crime, and we can get the homeless to move somewhere else.
Ordinarily I would agree with you, since we have suffered directly from homeless people sleeping and pooping in our yard.
But, realistically, the homeless go where the drugs and the people who give money/food to them are. As libertarians, we can't exactly call for banning drugs nor charity.
I think the best solution is one that few bring up: build a homeless area way out in the boonies and have the churches/private charities hand out the stuff they'd hand out anyway that attracts the homeless. Free parking for car-dwellers, free showers, free toilets, free food, free spots to set up their tents, no drug enforcement; it would be a magnet for the homeless. The gov't could provide basic law enforcement against violent crimes and rape but would otherwise stay hands-off.
But I bet most homeless would still prefer to be in the city. The panhandling is too good, and the drug dealers probably won't go all the way out to the boonies to sell their drugs. We all know the feds would be waiting along the road to bust the drug dealers, thus crippling one of the biggest draws.
"...But, realistically, the homeless go where the drugs and the people who give money/food to them are. As libertarians, we can't exactly call for banning drugs nor charity..."
Correct, but "charity" (excluding that financed by city governments) is in no way capable of distributing sufficient funds to deliver the problems we are facing now.
This takes *massive* amounts of taxpayer subsidies!
"Only In San Francisco: $61,000 Tents And $350,000 Public Toilets"
https://www.hoover.org/research/only-san-francisco-61000-tents-and-350000-public-toilets
This ain't "charity", this is a tax-payer-funded, publics-works, union-staffed employment program.
Why not? Libertarians don't want a society without rules, libertarians want a society in which rules are imposed by private organizations/actors based on voluntary association. So, in a libertarian society, a local HOA certainly can ban drugs, handing out money, and vagrancy, and it can enforce those bans via the penalties specified in the CCRs (usually fines, possibly expulsion).
You really need to make a distinction between different levels of government. Where libertarians differ the most from other ideologies is in criminal law, and at the state and federal level. Drugs shouldn't be illegal at the state or federal level, and their should be no criminal penalties for using them.
But for a libertarian, your local HOA, as well as any other private organizations you are a member of, should certainly be able to prohibit drug use by members, require drug testing, etc., with penalties as specified in the contract under which you joined the organization. An HOA would also be able to enforce anti-vagrancy rules and penalize members who give to panhandlers. If you reject that level of local governance, you're not comfortable with actual libertarianism.
A libertarian society is certainly not a society in which everybody is free to use drugs, free to move/live wherever they want, or free to do as they please on their own land. Only communists promise that level of freedom in their utopia, and they can't deliver.
What is the libertarian basis for making vagrancy a crime?
What is the libertarian basis for repeatedly lying about your knowledge of Joe Rogan and his guests?
The way this would function in a libertarian society is that neighborhoods and towns are run by private HOAs. Entering the land means entering private property and accepting the contractual rules and potential penalties for violating the rules. Many HOAs would include rules against vagrancy and impose fines and bans if you violate the anti-vagrancy rules.
So, technically, in a libertarian society, vagrancy wouldn't be called a "crime" (i.e., a violation of laws passed through a political process), but other than that, privately constituted "municipalities" would handle largely the same way as our politically constituted municipalities do right now (minus the ability to imprison people).
Anyone else interested in funding a panel of psychologists to read the comments and put together profiles of the most bizarre personalities, starting with SQRLSY?
Let people be free to setup Bidenville's in public parks.
It wouldn't be surprising Biden had one of his cabinet members write to the National Association of Neighborhoods, to write a letter to the Attorney General to ask him to enforce the anti-terrorism laws against racist citizens complaining and threatening people camping on their property.
Isn't that a bit like saying you can't solve murder by making it a crime?
So close, yet still so far.
https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/near-earth-asteroid-twice-as-big-as-empire-state-building-to-pass-by-tuesday-how-to-track-view-it/
Well, this is disappointing for those of us who want to see more space travel. Apparently space travel causes anemia.
https://www.the-sun.com/tech/4482978/astronauts-space-anemia-mystery-red-blood-cell-destruction/
And it's not just while the astronauts are in space, they remained anemic even for up to a year after they returned to earth. So long-term space travel induces some type of physiological change in the body. That's disappointing.
Why don't European cities appear to have these problems? I mean, perhaps they do, but I've never come across a homeless encampment in, say, Amsterdam, yet I'm wading through them in every major U.S. city.
It seems like every major group would benefit from providing shelter to the homeless. The NIMBYs, politicians, middle-class commuters, tourists, executives, the homeless themselves, etc...
Several factors:
Police remove the homeless from visible/touristy areas of cities and penalize vagrancy.
Minimal housing standards in Europe are so low that it's easier to provide housing.
Being homeless still bears a much greater social stigma in Europe than in the US.
Declining populations also mean that housing is more widely available.
Mental illness and drug addiction is often dealt with through institutionalization, and governments make a much stronger effort to force able-bodied citizens to get jobs.
Despite all that, Europe still does have a significant housing and homeless problem.
Politicians and non-profits benefit from maintaining the homeless crisis in the US, and so do many developers. Politicians even import large numbers of "immigrants" to make things worse and artificially raise the cost of housing through regulations and economic policy. And in many cases, the homeless don't want the obligations and restrictions that go along with living in a fixed residence.
Why don't European cities appear to have these problems? I mean, perhaps they do, but I've never come across a homeless encampment in, say, Amsterdam, yet I'm wading through them in every major U.S. city.
wut
Have you ever BEEN to Europe? Europe has entire tent cities of homeless people all over the place. The police keep them out of the tourist sites but if you wander down a couple side streets of any major city you'll see them in all the usual places doing the usual things that homeless people do.
Let's see = California will spend a record $4.8 billion over two years to alleviate homelessness after legislators. As of January 2020, California alone had about 151,000 inhabitants experiencing homelessness. There are many contributors to the problem
Divide by 2...~ 16,000 a person at state level.
SF chron says S.F. has an unprecedented $1.1 billion to spend on homelessness. In 2019, volunteers counted more than 8,000 homeless people in San Francisco's shelters, jails and living on the streets.
This comes out to 137,500 dollars per year from San Fran.
If you are a homeless in SF, they spend about 150k on you per year.
Of course when they say spend, it's more money going into polito pockets and not to the people. Or millions to build a building to house 50 people etc.
the places where the vagrants and bums live on the streets are exactly the places where the law is not enforced. the only solution is to enforce the law. no one has a right to live on the streets. in my world all these people would be arrested and put in jail. build a tent prison in the desert and house the bums there. no drugs or alcohol allowed and everyone must work 12 hours a day. these bums will get cleaned up in a hurry and streets will get cleaned up too. this problem exists only because it is allowed. the morons running these cities must love the bums and tent cities on the streets.
Lots of places to park around the courthouse, I'm sure.
Homelessness is not a crime. Stabbing people is a crime. In most places, masturbating in front of schoolkids on a public sidewalk is a crime. Really aggressive panhandling can be a crime. Public intoxication is sometimes a crime.
I can get cited if I have a junked car in my driveway in the suburbs, much less living in one in someone's parking lot.
If you set up a tent in a public park, and litter the playground with used syringes and excrement, people are not angry at you because you are homeless. It is because their kids are no longer safe in the park.
Not having a permanent home is not the issue, or the offense.
living on the streets, camping on public property, etc. should be a crime everywhere and should not be tolerated -- ever. these people all need to be jailed.
True, you don't solve homelessness by making it a crime. However, having worked with street people, I learned that a significant number of them are there by choice, and there are multitudes that want to help them by donating free stuff. That being said, there are those legitimately in need of help. The problem is discerning between those who need help and those on the take; that is something that government usually does not do well. I once noted an individual repeatedly panhandling on a well traveled corner. One day, as I was stopped at that intersection, a well dressed individual in a suit, walked up to him and pulled a "NEED HELP" sign from under his suit coat, and handed the sign to the panhandler. He was pimping at panhandling - I could not believe my eyes.
Wow, what brilliance! Did Mommy help you write it?
"Or calling the cops "
Who's to pay the wages of those who answer the phone when you call? Or the cops?
"It's seems you over complicated things for no reason just to argue with Ken."
The point is that the issue is too complicated for Ken Schultz's overly simplistic solution.
And not ONE single link provided, Oh Lazy One! Not even a link to Sidney Powell! HOW do you Trumpists expect regular people to believe a damned thing that you say, and more? WHEN is Big Crybaby Sore Loser Trump going to take back His Big Lie? Maybe THEN you Trumpists might gain some credibility!
https://reason.com/2021/03/23/sidney-powell-says-shes-not-guilty-of-defamation-because-no-reasonable-person-would-have-believed-her-outlandish-election-conspiracy-theory/
Sidney Powell Says She’s Not Guilty of Defamation Because ‘No Reasonable Person’ Would Have Believed Her ‘Outlandish’ Election Conspiracy Theory
Which particular lies are you wanting to hear and believe today, hyper-partisan Wonder Child?
Sorry, I couldn't find any Mother Jones links for you, will the Department of Justice do you fascist bootlicking faggot cop-sucker?
Right off of the top of your link...
Former FBI attorney Kevin Clinesmith, 38, pleaded guilty today...
FIRED from the FBI and convicted! So... Problem solved!
Can you name me ONE large organization which has NEVER had any "bad apples"? Speaking of bad apples... And WHEN is Der TrumpfenFuhrer going to take back His Big Lie?
Very good point.
The human history is only because people accepted that they were going to die if they didn't get off their ass and provide for themselves, or find some way to pay for others to provide those services in return. No human advancement was every made sitting around waiting for someone to shelter oneself.
"So first it's "their actions" that bettered their lives. But then it was "given" to them?"
No, either their own actions OR someone doing it on their behalf improved them from that default condition.
"If anything mankind's default position is to constantly improve its condition, not wallow in it."
I think we are getting caught up on semantics here. When I say "Default Condition" I mean, "absent any human action". If we reset the simulation, Ogg is sitting out in the middle of a forest, cold, hungry and is going to die if he doesn't start making a life for himself.
That is what I (and likely Sarc) mean by "Default Condition". I totally agree that human nature is to change from that default condition. But when we are figuring out what we are allowed, what we are owed and what to expect, figuring out what the baseline is can be instructive.
He was just following orders, right?
We are so rich that poor people are fat.
Oh? So WHO was it that ordered Der TrumpfenFuhrer to issue His Big Lie?
Nobody, the Big Lie is that Jan6 was an iNsuRREctioN,
and that Ray Epps totally wasn't maybe FBI,
and that Brian Sicknick was definitely maybe clubbed to death with a fire extinguisher or bear spray,
and that someone smeared poop in the halls,
and that people brought zip-ties to bind congressmen,
and all the other bullshit that turned out to be lies.
This (below) poetry inspired by the REAL facts of a REAL nightmare!
https://www.salon.com/2021/04/11/trumps-big-lie-and-hitlers-is-this-how-americas-slide-into-totalitarianism-begins/
Trump’s Big Lie and Hitler’s: Is this how America’s slide into totalitarianism begins?
"The Sound Of Despots"
Hello darkness, my old friend, I've come to talk with you again
Because a nightmare in jackboots, left its seeds while I was sleeping
And the nightmare that was planted in my brain, still remains
Within the sound of despots
In nightmares I ran alone, narrow streets of cobblestone
Neath the halo of a streetlamp, I turned my collar to the cold and damp
When my eyes were stabbed by the flash of an orange blight, split the night
And touched the sound of despots
And in their naked greed I saw, millions of sheeple, maybe more
Sheeple talking without speaking, sheeple hearing without listening
Sheeple’s thoughts, sanity never shared, and no one dared
To question the despots!
Fool, said I, you do not know, despots, like a cancer, grows
Hear my words and I might teach you, take my arms then I might reach you
But my words, like silent raindrops fell, and echoed in the wells of despots
And the morons bowed and prayed to the orange god they'd made
And the sign flashed its warning in the words that it was forming
And the sign said the words of the despots are written in the echo chambers
And tenement halls, and shouted, in the sounds of despots
Refugio Nab refuted it for you Sqrls.
https://reason.com/2022/01/17/you-cant-solve-homelessness-by-making-it-a-crime/?comments=true#comment-9309135
Two out of three. You're almost there.