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Coronavirus

RIP, 'Pandemic of the Unvaccinated'

Farewell to a Biden White House messaging strategy that was terrible long before Omicron

Matt Welch | 12.27.2021 3:54 PM

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Bidenbrella | Chris Kleponis / CNP / SplashNews/Newscom
(Chris Kleponis / CNP / SplashNews/Newscom)

If you spend too much time observing the way politicians speak, you'll pick up an almost perceptibly mechanical gear-shift in their heads when the brain-groove reminds them to reproduce an anecdote or talking point they have formulated so many times before. Occasionally the subconscious rebels against the alienating monotony with apologetic prefix clauses like, "That's why I like to say," or "I always tell the story that," but the pre-sets mostly override such human twitches to deliver the desired political result.

So it was for President Joe Biden's counterproductive "pandemic of the unvaccinated" slogan, which the White House COVID-19 Response Team introduced in mid-July, and which the president was still regurgitating inaccurately as late as December 14.

In a local TV interview with News Center 7 in Dayton, Ohio, the president was asked about whether his administration would continue fighting his contested employer vaccine mandates in court. The politician-brain quickly whirred into gear.

"This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. The unvaccinated. Not the vaccinated, the unvaccinated," Biden emphasized, on the same day that the omicron variant produced a one-day positive-case increase of 16 percent in highly vaccinated New York City. "That's the problem. And so everybody talks about 'freedom,' and not to have a shot or have a test. Well guess what? How about patriotism? How about making sure that you're vaccinated, so you do not spread the disease to anybody else? What about that?"

What about that indeed. New York City's one-shot vaccination rate (of 92 percent for adults, 83 percent for kids between 13 and 17) "rivals any number in the free world," Politico's Jack Shafer observed last week, and yet somehow my vaccinated teen and boosted self spent Christmas under quarantine. The fact-checkers over at The Poynter Institute's PolitiFact generously rated Biden's "vaccinated…do not spread the disease" claim as only "mostly" false, despite epidemiologist quotes like "[the] statement is not accurate," and "vaccinated individuals can definitely infect other people."

But the problems with the "pandemic of the unvaccinated" message pre-date the variant that rendered it factually ludicrous. On September 16, one week after Biden reversed serial administration promises by announcing an employer vaccine mandate (while using language such as "We've been patient, but our patience is wearing thin. And your refusal has cost all of us"), science writer Yasmin Tayag penned an Atlantic piece headlined "Stop Calling It a 'Pandemic of the Unvaccinated.'"

"Bullying the unvaccinated into getting their shots isn't going to work in the long run," Tayag predicted, in a piece surveying a field of study (behavioral science) to which the White House seems oblivious. "The way the mandates are being presented is driving a wedge between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated. If the goal is to inoculate enough people to reach herd immunity, this approach may eventually backfire."

So how have mandates worked in practice? The New York Times on December 18 published a survey of all 50 states and the country's largest 100 cities, and concluded that the government orders "have not provided the significant boost to state and local vaccination rates that some experts had hoped for." To the contrary: "In most locations, the number of adults with at least one shot grew at a slower pace after states and cities announced mandates than it did nationwide in the same time periods."

"Mandates might help for people who are just finding it inconvenient, but have no really legitimate reason to not get the vaccine," Lisa Cooper, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Equity, told the Times. "But then you have people who have strong beliefs against it or who really have significant other struggles, and the mandates are not going to do anything for those people."

The Times notes that—at least until and unless Biden's employer mandate passes legal muster—the vast majority of government vaccination orders take place in Democratic-voting, high-vaxxed polities: "In almost all of these states and in all of the counties surrounding the cities with mandates, a majority of the residents voted for President Biden. Statewide mandates tend to be most popular along the West Coast and in the Northeast, whereas states banning some mandates tend to be clustered in the South."

So if vaccine mandates aren't moving the needle on vaccination, what, precisely, are they for? One particularly ungenerous hypothesis is hard to avoid. Rebranding COVID-19 as the "pandemic of the unvaccinated," then targeting that population with punishments for noncompliance, has been a way to scapegoat political opponents and technology companies, while bolstering the sense of virtuousness among the vaxxed.

Those dynamics were present at the creation of the re-brand. The same week that the White House COVID-19 Response Team began telling vaccinated people that the pandemic was now for those other people, Surgeon General Vivek Murthy called for a "whole-of-society" effort to combat "health misinformation," then Biden just flat-out accused Facebook and other social media companies of "killing people."

Then in the same week that Biden announced his vaccine mandate, he also charged prominent GOP officials with being "cavalier" about whether children lived or died. "Republican governors in states like Texas and Florida are doing everything they can to undermine the public health requirements that keep people safe," the president tweeted. "They're playing politics with the lives of their citizens, especially children. I refuse to give in to it."

Biden's entire speech unveiling his vaccine mandate was dripping with irritation for Americans who had yet to get a shot, and for politicians who were not sufficiently on board with his COVID policies. A selection:

Many of us are frustrated with the nearly 80 million Americans who are still not vaccinated […]

This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. And it's caused by the fact that despite America having an unprecedented and successful vaccination program, despite the fact that for almost five months free vaccines have been available in 80,000 different locations, we still have nearly 80 million Americans who have failed to get the shot.

And to make matters worse, there are elected officials actively working to undermine the fight against COVID-19. Instead of encouraging people to get vaccinated and mask up, they're ordering mobile morgues for the unvaccinated dying from COVID in their communities. This is totally unacceptable. […]

That 25 percent [of unvaccinated people] can cause a lot of damage—and they are. The unvaccinated overcrowd our hospitals, are overrunning the emergency rooms and intensive care units, leaving no room for someone with a heart attack, or [pancreatitis], or cancer. […]

[W]hat makes it incredibly more frustrating is that we have the tools to combat COVID-19, and a distinct minority of Americans—supported by a distinct minority of elected officials—are keeping us from turning the corner. These pandemic politics, as I refer to, are making people sick, causing unvaccinated people to die.

We cannot allow these actions to stand in the way of protecting the large majority of Americans who have done their part and want to get back to life as normal. […]

The bottom line: We're going to protect vaccinated workers from unvaccinated co-workers.

The message given here to the vaccinated is mixed bordering on schizophrenic. This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated does not jibe with vaccinated workers need protection from unvaccinated workers. In a speech touting the urgent need for vaccination, Biden is saying that getting vaccinated cannot be a ticket back to normal life until we deal with those foolish anti-vaxxers. Rather than encourage the kind of social cohesion that correlates best with high inoculation rates, the president is telling one bloc of voters it's OK to be pissed off at the other.

Writing in The Lancet last month under the headline "Stigmatising the unvaccinated is not justified," epidemiologist Günter Kampf laid out the practical drawbacks to Biden's approach.

"People who are vaccinated have a lower risk of severe disease but are still a relevant part of the pandemic," Kampf wrote. "It is therefore wrong and dangerous to speak of a pandemic of the unvaccinated. Historically, both the USA and Germany have engendered negative experiences by stigmatising parts of the population for their skin colour or religion. I call on high-level officials and scientists to stop the inappropriate stigmatisation of unvaccinated people, who include our patients, colleagues, and other fellow citizens, and to put extra effort into bringing society together."

The pandemic of the unvaccinated framing actively encouraged one of the uglier and least productive societal reactions to COVID-19: Making the mere fact of contracting the virus a morality play falling largely along partisan lines. The whole notion that by "doing everything right," and "following all the rules," you will be righteously spared, unlike those anti-science people this summer down south.

That self-flattering narrative is collapsing, now that (as predicted) a stubbornly seasonal/regional virus has hit media/Democratic centers for a third consecutive winter. "Thousands who 'followed the rules' are about to get covid," ran the headline on a Washington Post "Wellness" column last week. "They shouldn't be ashamed." Lovely sentiment, that.

If the public health goal is to prevent unnecessary deaths by persuading fence-sitters to take the life-saving vaccine, there are many strategies that strike me as more potentially effective than scapegoating, marginalizing, and punishing a population that's already disproportionately suffering from the disease. Starting with maybe studying, you know, behavioral science.

Outgoing National Institutes of Health (NIH) Director Francis Collins did an interview with NPR this month that included this startling admission: "I do think we need to understand better how—in the current climate—people make decisions….To have now 60 million people still holding off of taking advantage of lifesaving vaccines is pretty unexpected. It does make me, at least, realize, 'Boy, there are things about human behavior that I don't think we had invested enough into understanding.'" Boy!

Next, politicians and public health officials might consider telling the whole relevant truth as they know it, rather than the partial bowdlerized truth as they mold it to shape public behavior.

It's not just Biden busting the fact-check-o-meters; it's Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Rochelle Walensky, as Jacob Sullum pointed out just today: "Time and again during the COVID-19 pandemic…Walensky has proven herself untrustworthy. The latest example is Walensky's slippery response to criticism of a study that she has repeatedly cited to justify the CDC's controversial recommendation that K–12 schools require students to wear face masks as a safeguard against COVID-19."

Public health officials have been unreliable narrators about the science of masks, the science of social distancing, the science of outdoor transmission, the science of outdoor dining, and the science of reopening, almost always in the direction of favoring their preferred restrictions. Responding specifically and factually to expressed reasons for vaccine hesitancy is not only more moral than compulsion and demonization, it might well be more effective at the stated goal.

This doesn't mean sugarcoating the vastly different outcomes among the Covid-positive vaxxed and unvaxxed—far from it. This graph is far more compelling to me than sitting through yet another rambly Joe Biden speech:

But the above should also serve a message to us vaccinated Americans: It looks like, on balance, we're going to come out of this omicron infection all right. Maybe instead of directing rage at a subset of our fellow countrymen who are getting seriously ill in disproportionate numbers, we should personally live as though we are in an endemic, and otherwise try to persuade our recalcitrant loved ones that this mild cough and week-plus indoors is a damn sight better than the alternative. Politicians might not be able to shut off their internal machinery of rhetorical division, but weren't you supposed to be better than all that?

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NEXT: Even if Modern Star Trek Doesn’t Think So, the World Is Getting Better

Matt Welch is an editor at large at Reason.

CoronavirusJoe BidenCDCPublic HealthScience
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  1. Ken Shultz   4 years ago

    ​The bureaucracy may be slow to adapt to the new messaging, but the last study I saw said that the vaccination effectiveness against Omicron is 0% to 20% without boosters.

    "Depending on the estimates used for vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic infection from the Delta variant, this translates into vaccine effectiveness estimates against symptomatic Omicron infection of between 0% and 20% after two doses, and between 55% and 80% after a booster dose."

    https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/232698/omicron-largely-evades-immunity-from-past/

    The effectiveness of the vaccines never should have been the focus of policy in the first place. IF IF IF anything, it should only have been the local availability rate of ventilator beds.

    This is another example of the imbecilic TDS hoards (in both government and the news media) deciding that the truth was always the opposite of whatever Trump was doing. Because Trump didn't want vaccine mandates, they wanted them, etc., etc., etc.

    1. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

      What scandalizes me above all else is that the push for vaccination has included stigmatizing searches for treatment, until appropriate newly patented treatments were available.

      I have no faith in our gov't agencies after years of enthusiastic cheerleading of pharmaceutical profits at the expense of the people they are nominally there to help.

      1. waxliberty   4 years ago

        "the push for vaccination has included stigmatizing searches for treatment"

        It has not. Lots you could read on this.

        https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32217705/

        I assume you mean stigmatizing viral misinformation such as the rounds we had with both hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.

        1. Truthfulness   4 years ago

          So what would you say to those who took alternative treatment and said they worked? Are you going to censor them?

          1. waxliberty   4 years ago

            No; the question was "stigmatizing".

            I value truth. As here it often has consequences.

            1. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

              You're full of shit and lie like a cheap rug.

              Fuck off and die, progshit.

              1. waxliberty   4 years ago

                Tell us how you really feel. Share your frustration about the oppressive constraints of reality and logic. Rush to indulgent rage, feed your grievances and loathing. Sounds fun. Take it easy, see you.

        2. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

          Adding to the chorus of folks here...

          Waxshit, you're either dumber than White Mike or as deliberately obtuse. You do not engage in good faith, but instead lie and deflect to further a partisan agenda.

          You are a worthless pile of progressive shit and do not deserve to be spoken to like an adult.

          So fuck off and die, progshit.

        3. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

          I assume you mean stigmatizing viral misinformation such as the rounds we had with both hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.

          No comment on the president saying you can't spread the disease if you're vaccinated? That kind of medical misinformation? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

  2. Eeyore   4 years ago

    I will very thankful if they give up and get the federal government out of the pandemic game, but I'm cynical I think they are only doing this because they don't want to lose political power come midterms.

  3. Fist of Etiquette   4 years ago

    Rebranding COVID-19 as the "pandemic of the unvaccinated," then targeting that population with punishments for noncompliance, has been a way to scapegoat political opponents and technology companies, while bolstering the sense of virtuousness among the vaxxed.

    Biden's handlers are hyper-partisans who are more than happy to continue the Hitlerian path of blaming The Other for society's ills, even if the basis for such a claim is at odds with the current data. If you think Trump's copious lies were oblivious to any easily discernible facts, you need look no further than the Biden White House to realize that kind of rapid fire blatant misinformation wasn't a unique to the last administration.

    1. Toddler1961   4 years ago

      33,000 Americans died from COVID-19 in November. 30,000+ of that number were unvaccinated. The math is not hard people. The vaccine saves lives. More than 170,000 Americans have died since June simply because they were unvaccinated. Go ahead and die in your effort to "own the libs". Please put the cause of death on your gravestones. Our descendants deserve to know who died from COVID-19 after June 1, 2021. Maybe put a MAGA engraving next to the COVID-19 engraving. Thanks.

      1. damikesc   4 years ago

        We've gone from FEWER deaths with basically zero vaccinations in 2020 and with NO clue how to treat it for months to MORE deaths now with dramatically more vaccinations and more info how to treat it.

        Logically, it makes zero sense.

        1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

          And if you're vaccinated, you fear the unvaccinated. Because the vaccine works and is highly effective.

      2. Hank Ferrous   4 years ago

        The 'toddler' name is very fitting.

        1. DesigNate   4 years ago

          If it’s parody, that’s pretty on the nose.

      3. I Callahan   4 years ago

        Why are there more deaths during the year where there was a vaccine than a year when there weren’t?

  4. JesseAz   4 years ago

    Mike is going to be mad. This articles ignores the fact that no oxygen exists anywhere in Idaho like he has been claiming for months. He would never lie would he?

  5. Michael Ejercito   4 years ago

    It is outdated as GRID.

    1. Apollonius   4 years ago

      As if anyone remembers what "GRID" was . . .

      1. daveca   4 years ago

        Gerbil Running Inside Democrat?

  6. Longtobefree   4 years ago

    The inconvenient truth(s):
    No one will trust a medicine where the government feels it necessary to prohibit lawsuits against the manufacturer.
    No one will trust a medicine where the government refuses to record and analyze adverse reactions.
    No one will trust a medicine where the government changes "The Science" every few months.
    No one will trust an unapproved medicine "authorized" for "Emergency use only" when the government tries to force the entire population to take that medicine after two years of "emergency".

    1. n00bdragon   4 years ago

      Sure, if by "No one" you mean "Pretty much everyone", because the only people I've seen get blamed for anything COVID-related are the libertarians.

      1. waxliberty   4 years ago

        Boss level grievance signal.

        1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

          Kill yourself.

    2. Apollonius   4 years ago

      I agree, except for the first statement.

      This prohibition can be explained as being related to Good Samaritan laws, which protect people who help out in emergency situations.

      Such a prohibition, IF combined with compete transparency, wouldn't matter in the slightest. "It may be dangerous, but we would rather have SOME vaccine than NO vaccine" would have succeeded.

      1. daveca   4 years ago

        falsee comparison.

        GS doesnot apply here. The GS clearly saw the others need.

        You cannot determine who will catch the virus.

        It is not better safe than sorry when the vaccines killed a higher percentage than the virus.

    3. Toddler1961   4 years ago

      Why are so many Americans vaccinated? Apparently you are wrong in your assumptions. Go ahead and die if you are unvaccinated. The cause of death will be on your death certificate. It could read "COVID-19" or "Died in his/her effort to "Own the Libs". Either way is fine by me. Carry on.

      1. daveca   4 years ago

        Gas lighting? Lying? Personal attacks? False Concern while ex pressing politically motivated hatred is a sign of psychological problems.

  7. Vernon Depner   4 years ago

    Fuck—Joe Biden!

    1. Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland   4 years ago

      and bless the unvaccinated clingers who were thoughtful enough to accelerate their replacement!

      One way to cut government spending -- and improve our replacement numbers -- would be to stop providing hospital services to infected, unvaccinated persons. Libertarians of the world, unite on this one!

      1. Chumby   4 years ago

        Stop providing government funded health services.

      2. Dace Highlander   4 years ago

        Now do AIDS patients. Then do obese.

      3. BigT   4 years ago

        Most data show that the rate of hospitalization in the unvaxed is 10-20x that in the vaxed population. The vax works, but not perfectly. F SloJo!,

      4. LongTimeListenerFirstTimeCaller   4 years ago

        Rev cuntland's Final Solution....

    2. Don't look at me!   4 years ago

      Fuck Joe Biden

  8. Colludo-bot5000   4 years ago

    "Shut up and leave me alone."
    "Shut up and do as you're told."
    Who should win?

    1. Jim Logajan   4 years ago

      The one with the heaviest artillery.

    2. waxliberty   4 years ago

      Does "leave me alone" mean (a) you won't pollute anything into the air or water I use and (b) you won't infect me or my family with a virus known to frequently impart long-term health problems by skipping responsible measures?

      Or does it mean (a) you want assurances and preferably government protection that you can freely pollute and force others to assume the costs, (b) you want assurances and preferably government protection that you can freely avoid precautions and health measures and increase your odds of infecting others, forcing others to assume the risks and costs?

      Who gets "left alone", the responsible or the irresponsible? (Another framing of American-style libertarianism vs. rightism rebranded as Libertarianism, or of pro- vs. anti-civilization perspectives...)

      1. Chumby   4 years ago

        Are you assuming you are not polluting?

        How have I contaminated your air? Your water?

        1. waxliberty   4 years ago

          It's a philosophical question, Chumby.

          Let's imagine you build a processing plant upriver from me and it is cheapest for you to dump mercury into the water. Folks downstream suffer some births of babies with brain damage, and complain like the Karens they are.

          There are two approaches – you get left alone because you are upriver. Those downriver don't get left alone, they move or pay for water treatment or whatever. This is more of a pre-civilization might makes right model. Don't tread on me.

          The American model sides more with the responsible – you don't get to dump on others. It's inherently a pro-civilization model, an example of creating "rights" that expand liberty.

          One model gives you the relatively clean air and water we enjoy in the U.S. The other – well, there are still some areas in the world where you can witness it, including parts of China. I encourage you to experience it if you truly believe it produces better outcomes.

          1. Chumby   4 years ago

            I have done no such thing. So let’s imagine reality.

            1. waxliberty   4 years ago

              I am fairly certain there is no enforced requirement to participate in comment threads here, so you're good and didn't even have to take the time to flag your non-participation.

              1. Chumby   4 years ago

                I am fairly certain nobody wants to accompany you on your pedantic escapade.

                1. waxliberty   4 years ago

                  Can feel you itching for that mod power Chumby. If you could ... just ... delete ... those posts ... that you can't answer ..

                  1. Chumby   4 years ago

                    You must be feeling yourself, wax on wax off. But hey, nobody else will so go for it.

                    1. R Mac   4 years ago

                      This propagandist was my quickest mute by far.

                    2. damikesc   4 years ago

                      I realized he was full of shit with that "horse dewormer" thing. Because Ivermectin has never been prescribed for humans before.

                    3. SQRLSY One   4 years ago

                      Hey Damiksec, damiskec, and damikesc, and ALL of your other socks…
                      How is your totalitarian scheme to FORCE people to buy Reason magazines coming along?

                      Free speech (freedom from “Cancel Culture”) comes from Facebook, Twitter, Tik-Tok, and Google, right? THAT is why we need to pass laws to prohibit these DANGEROUS companies (which, ugh!, the BASTARDS, put profits above people!)!!! We must pass new laws to retract “Section 230” and FORCE the evil corporations to provide us all (EXCEPT for my political enemies, of course!) with a “UBIFS”, a Universal Basic Income of Free Speech!

                      So leftist “false flag” commenters will inundate Reason-dot-com with shitloads of PROTECTED racist comments, and then pissed-off readers and advertisers and buyers (of Reason magazine) will all BOYCOTT Reason! And right-wing idiots like Damikesc will then FORCE people to support Reason, so as to nullify the attempts at boycotts! THAT is your ultimate authoritarian “fix” here!!!

                      “Now, to “protect” Reason from this meddling here, are we going to REQUIRE readers and advertisers to support Reason, to protect Reason from boycotts?”
                      Yup. Basically. Sounds rough. (Quote damikesc)

                      (Etc.)

                      See https://reason.com/2020/06/24/the-new-censors/#comment-8316852

                    4. Sevo   4 years ago

                      TDS-addled spastic asshole gets flagged.

      2. Jim Logajan   4 years ago

        Humans, indeed all living things, by their very nature generate wastes into their environment. It has been that way for billions of years.
        What government entity will protect me from the deer who wander through our yard and shit on it? Or birds who poop on our cars and house? What protection does the government have to protect us from bee stings? Mosquito bites? Shouldn't these creatures be held responsible for their actions?

        Bottom line is that your special pleading re this disease and the assumption that everyone is presumed guilty of a crime who does not take the actions you mistakenly think are "best" is a case of authoritarianism that mocks the very thing it claims to protect: the rights of an individual.

        1. waxliberty   4 years ago

          "Shouldn't these creatures be held responsible for their actions?"

          Nope. Civilization is a construction of reason and communication, abilities other animals don't have.

          Are you really saying people should be free to shit in your yard?

          "the actions you mistakenly think are "best""

          That's the rub, isn't it? The disagreements these days don't tend to be over philosophy, they are over what is real. In *empirical* terms - putting weight on what can be independently tested and measured - it is certainly not mistaken to see vaccination as a rational approach. The question mostly becomes who bears the cost if someone does not accept empiricism as the basis for assessing what is real – themselves, or others. As is often the case, rights of individuals can conflict.

          1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

            Kill yourself.

          2. Truthfulness   4 years ago

            Anyone feel like refuting this guy? I need some shuteye.

            1. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

              No point in debating a propogandist. Wax changes the subject or runs away.

            2. Hank Ferrous   4 years ago

              Once it wrote the horseshit about injecting household cleaner, I stopped paying attention to it. Not even an interesting troll.

      3. Dace Highlander   4 years ago

        Now do AIDS.

        1. waxliberty   4 years ago

          Feel free to elaborate.

      4. Just thinkin aloud   4 years ago

        Now imagine you try to dump pollutants directly into other's bodies through a needle. A pollutant no one has survived 5 years after taking, as of yet. Would you have the nerve to be surprised if people used their 2A rights to protect themselves from you, immediately and on the spot?

        1. waxliberty   4 years ago

          So many questions. What 2A right do you think exists that lets you shoot me for skeptically questioning anti-vaccine conspiracy theory claims? Great if you could be specific on the wording.

          1. Truthfulness   4 years ago

            You didn't answer his question, nor did you refute his claims. The 2nd amendment is quite clear on its meaning. Try again.

      5. BigT   4 years ago

        Liberty and Equal rights means ALL get to be left alone.

        If my actions can be proven to impact you, sue me.

  9. Del   4 years ago

    We're so pretentious walking around public like we're surrounded by a forcefield. We're in denial about the fact that by eating in public without masks, talking without masks, drinking, going to events, etc, we ARE the vectors. We're facilitating the spread. The unvaxxed have been compartmentalized so we can't blame them for the spread.

    1. daveca   4 years ago

      it spreads regardless.

      The false equivalence of " vaccine" and " spread" is a bald face lie.

      no correlation. the vax only stimulates a persons immune system. it does not prevent breathing it in or out.

      This shows they are pathologically lying.

      1. waxliberty   4 years ago

        "it spreads regardless."

        Again, just untrue. e.g.

        https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.13.21260393v1

        "the vax only stimulates a persons immune system"

        Correct, but it is your reasoning from this premise that is at fault. If your logic was sound, we'd still all have kids with polio in our communities. We don't. You don't have to appreciate it, but you're welcome.

        1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

          The polio vaccine is actually a vaccine you retarded faggot.

          1. Chumby   4 years ago

            Imagine if it was less than 20% effective. And required boosters every two and a half months. And polio was a mild flu for much of the population.

            1. waxliberty   4 years ago

              "Imagine if it was less than 20% effective"

              But it isn't. (Of course effectiveness is relevant, especially when it comes to public and private policy questions. But dave's comment remains inaccurate – due to the math of how infection works, any significant reduction in R0 reduces spread.)

              "And required boosters every two and a half months"

              doesn't

              "And polio was a mild flu for much of the population"

              For much of the population polio didn't have any symptoms at all...

              1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

                Eat shit, retarded faggot.

              2. Chumby   4 years ago

                We can predict who will be severely affected by covid. People can make choices for themselves.

                Why is omicron spreading so fast in highly vaccinated areas if the vaccine is so effective?

                It is being reported the vaccineloses much of its protection against omicron after 10 weeks. That is two and a half months.

                1. waxliberty   4 years ago

                  "We can predict who will be severely affected by covid. People can make choices for themselves"

                  If this was a strong enough argument, proponents wouldn't have had to construct a platform of lies about faked hospital deaths, faked imminent herd immunity, fake vaccine risks and all the rest of it.

                  The short summary of why this argument doesn't win is (a) it turns out to be politically unworkable to let public health capacity get overrun and (b) we can't really, a majority of the population has risk factors, it's not only about death as long-term negative health impact is common etc...

                  "Why is omicron spreading so fast in highly vaccinated areas if the vaccine is so effective"

                  It is an extremely transmissible variant – able to spread probably an order of magnitude faster than original covid. It is not spreading faster among the vaccinated than the unvaccinated.

                  1. Chumby   4 years ago

                    Has someone suggested it spreads faster amongst the vaccinated?

                    Government response to covid isn’t about public health protection; it is about control. Former NY governor Andrew Cuomo (D) is thankful for this.

                    Sending home unvaccinated healthcare workers contributes to healthcare systems being overrun.

                    People in the US that want a vaccine can get one.

                    Died with covid and died from covid are two different things.

                    1. waxliberty   4 years ago

                      "Government response to covid isn’t about public health protection; it is about control"

                      Feel free to explain why this comment isn't as empty as it sounds.

                      If it helps, contrast with: "Government-enforced streetlights aren't about public safety; it is about control." I'm not saying it's the same, but maybe it's a way to elaborate the point.

                      "Sending home unvaccinated healthcare workers contributes to healthcare systems being overrun"

                      Not if you net end up with more healthcare workers.

                      "Died with covid and died from covid are two different things."

                      May be, but the conspiracy theories about hospitals miscategorizing deaths en masse remain clearly false. Aside from the impracticality of the conspiracy, there are various lines of evidence – excess death analysis, associations between covid deaths and sars-cov-2 test rates in the population, etc.

                    2. Chumby   4 years ago

                      Feel free to provide an actual rebuttal.

                      Worked at a state CDC during H1N1, which turned out to be more contagious but less deadly than typical seasonal flus. The decision was made to categorize all flu related deaths as H1N1. The CDC enjoyed more power, camera time for the director and funding as a result. Are you suggesting those are not motives?

                      Why not keep existing healthcare workers and add the others if healthcare systems are being inundated?

                      It doesn’t help at all. It is a poor analogy.

                    3. Sevo   4 years ago

                      waxliberty
                      December.27.2021 at 11:55 pm
                      Flag Comment Mute User
                      "Government response to covid isn’t about public health protection; it is about control"
                      Feel free to explain why this comment isn't as empty as it sounds.
                      If it helps, contrast with: "Government-enforced streetlights aren't about public safety; it is about control." I'm not saying it's the same, but maybe it's a way to elaborate the point."

                      Yes, as a lefty pile of shit, you are indeed attempting to promote a strawman as support for your bullshit.
                      Fuck off and die, asshole

                  2. Sevo   4 years ago

                    This lefty asshole comments are what's known as a 'target-rich environment:

                    ""We can predict who will be severely affected by covid. People can make choices for themselves"
                    If this was a strong enough argument, proponents wouldn't have had to construct a platform of lies about faked hospital deaths, faked imminent herd immunity, fake vaccine risks and all the rest of it."
                    What ever 'arguments' you choose to focus on, the choice remains NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS; fuck off.

                    "The short summary of why this argument doesn't win is (a) it turns out to be politically unworkable to let public health capacity get overrun and (b) we can't really, a majority of the population has risk factors, it's not only about death as long-term negative health impact is common etc..."
                    The shorter summary is simply, your health is your responsibility, not mine. Chicken Littles can stay home until they 'feel' safe, asshole.

                    ""Why is omicron spreading so fast in highly vaccinated areas if the vaccine is so effective"
                    It is an extremely transmissible variant – able to spread probably an order of magnitude faster than original covid. It is not spreading faster among the vaccinated than the unvaccinated."
                    And by all accounts, it is slightly more dangerous than a common cold, but lefty shit Chicken Littles aren't about to stop them from waving the PANIC flag.
                    Fuck off, asshole; tired of it.

                2. Sevo   4 years ago

                  The lefty shit posting as 'waxliberty' seems to have a hard time responding to specific questions, which is not really surprising; lefty shits often do.

        2. DarrenM   4 years ago

          Polio is not a virus.

          1. waxliberty   4 years ago

            Psst, most of the folks making anti-vaccine arguments here are trying to sustain the appearance that they aren't just using reheated classic anti-vax tactics, rather new and special arguments just for covid. This isn't helping.

            1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

              Kill yourself.

            2. Sevo   4 years ago

              Psst, lefty shits here still don't understand IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!
              Fuck off.

            3. Truthfulness   4 years ago

              And yet you display your dishonesty in bringing up polio, which you knowingly brought up despite being very different from covid. The statistics being shown right now contradict the study you cited.

              1. waxliberty   4 years ago

                "And yet you display your dishonesty in bringing up polio"

                You seem to be a broken record in falsely claiming people are lying when they have not (that is – you are the one lying, again.) I take it you paint your screen name in more Orwellian terms.

                Dave argued that "it spreads regardless" because "the vax only stimulates a persons immune system".

                This is how all vaccines work including the polio vaccine. A faster acting immune system reduces spread. At scale this can lead to stamping pathogens out, as it did with polio – i.e., historical disproof of dave's claim that "it [virus] spreads regardless" of vaccines.

                Of course covid is a different virus, but the fundamentals of how vaccines work is the same. Studies have consistently shown that the vaccinated catch and spread sars-cov-2 at a reduced rate relative to unvaccinated, for covid as with polio.

                Dave's claims about the limitations of vaccines are false – lies – and your defense of them is false.

                Polio btw is in fact caused by a virus, that claim is also false.

                "The righteous hate what is false, but the wicked make themselves a stench and bring shame on themselves"
                Proverbs 13:5

                But I'm sure in this case lying serves a righteous purpose and will get a pass.

                Btw feel free per usual to grievance signal over how I am "talking down" by having to explain the basics of how vaccines work and their history. The game is well designed; if you tell enough falsehoods, someone will point out that they are false, and then you can indulge in rage over the injustice of someone not respecting your version of the facts – proof yet again of how you qualify for oppressed status, live under scientific fascism etc.

                Take care.

                1. Sevo   4 years ago

                  You seem to be full of shit.
                  Fuck off and die.

      2. BigT   4 years ago

        Of course it spreads, but the spread is a function of one’s viral load. The vax reduces your viral load, so inhibits spread.

    2. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

      Well, this is several flavors of deranged totalitarian.

      1. Masks are ineffective against aerosols. Covid is carried in said particles in significant volume and remains freely suspended in the air for great lengths of time. There is nowhere you are gonna go in your daily life that has an HVAC capable of filtering it out of the air.

      2. Unless you're really fat or sick, there is almost no risk from this. And if you're really fat or sick, you're already at risk from evertthing anyway.

      3. Unless you're in NY or California, we're not locking the socially unclean away. Because it's completely morally repulsive and wrong and we're not supposed to repeat past horrors, riiiiight?

      1. waxliberty   4 years ago

        "Masks are ineffective against aerosols"

        Untrue. They're not *as* effective as against droplets. You do not get covid from a single virion (typically).

        "Unless you're really fat or sick, there is almost no risk from this"

        Also untrue. Though of course you are mostly relying on weasel language ("almost"). Signs of long-term health impact are pretty common. And if you are over 50 the risk of death is high and grows steeply with age.

        "Unless you're in NY or California, we're not locking the socially unclean away"

        Try going without bathing and self-grooming for a few months, remove your clothes, and walk into your local midwest Walmart that you'd think would be safe for freedom. Tyranny detected!!!

        Now we see the violence inherent in the system...

        1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

          Eat shit, you lying faggot.

          1. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

            This pretty much covers it.

        2. Sevo   4 years ago

          ""Masks are ineffective against aerosols"
          Untrue. They're not *as* effective as against droplets. You do not get covid from a single virion (typically)."
          Unsupported claim and misdirection; thanks, lefty shit

          ""Unless you're really fat or sick, there is almost no risk from this"
          Also untrue. Though of course you are mostly relying on weasel language ("almost"). Signs of long-term health impact are pretty common. And if you are over 50 the risk of death is high and grows steeply with age."
          Strange, first you disagree and then admit it's true

          ""Unless you're in NY or California, we're not locking the socially unclean away"
          Try going without bathing and self-grooming for a few months, remove your clothes, and walk into your local midwest Walmart that you'd think would be safe for freedom. Tyranny detected!!!"
          Try something other than a strawman, lefty pile of shit.

          "Now we see the violence inherent in the system..."
          Uh, yeah. When the government "mandates" activities, it's done at the point of a gun, you pathetic piece of lefty shit. Fuck off and die.

        3. the phucko   4 years ago

          Age along with various morbidities and morbidness r THE ONLY FOLKS...., with a risk of dying. Just as it is EVERY flu season. U r but another scarred little parrot. Keep wearing that mask and taking the poison mrNa shot. This is all an IQ test... And u have failed.
          The Phucko Knows

          1. waxliberty   4 years ago

            It is known.

      2. Eeyore   4 years ago

        What about the "little bit" fat?

        1. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

          To clarify, when I said said was that there does not exist a filtration system capable of removing it from the air of a building, it was referring to volume of air more than treatment capabilities.

          Even if your HVAC can treat the air, it cannot guarantee that exhalations immediately are removed... Not without turning the store into a wind tunnel, which I would love to see.

          1. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

            Wtf Reason, dupposed to be for Captainjack.

      3. CaptainJack   4 years ago

        There are HVAC systems that can kill it though. Well not "kill", since viruses aren't living organisms, but rather destroy.

        A some UV-C steralizer in the HVAC system will destroy the viral proteins and render them harmless.

        It is not expensive, nor difficult to put a UV steralizer in an existing HVAC system.

        1. Eeyore   4 years ago

          Has anyone studied transmission to see if seasonal patterns are related to changes in percentage of fresh air intake in HVAC systems? I know that depending on the building and climate the fresh air intake is significantly reduced to save energy.

          1. DesigNate   4 years ago

            That would suggest this is endemic and seasonal and as our friend waxliberty will happily tell you, this is the plague and you’re an idiot/asshole for not recognizing it and setting your hair on fire.

        2. waxliberty   4 years ago

          Lack of focus on HVAC and air flow has seemed something of a disaster throughout.

          I'm sure it seems absurdly unfair and perhaps it is, but as a rationalist I blame the conspiracy theory epidemic for this sort of thing as well. Rational arguments about the correct public health interventions were all but impossible with the national discussion dominated by 'hospitals faking deaths' type Trumpisms officially embraced by one of the major political parties...

          1. Truthfulness   4 years ago

            So you're telling us George Floyd died from Covid and not by Derek Chauvin? Because that's exactly what plenty of hospitals did with those who died in such places.

            Maybe you should consider the idea that this "conspiracy theory" is actually true, supposed rationalist...

          2. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

            You're not rational, you're a deranged progshit chugging down that CNN suppository.

            Now fuck off and die, slaver.

          3. DesigNate   4 years ago

            “ as a rationalist”

            Oh, you’re just another shrike sock. Got it.

    3. Sevo   4 years ago

      "We're so pretentious walking around public like we're surrounded by a forcefield..."

      You're so full of shit.

      1. SQRLSY One   4 years ago

        Sevo the Pedo is an EXPERT about being full of shit!

        1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

          Fagot retard should shut his bitch mouth.

        2. Sevo   4 years ago

          Flag, asshole. Fuck off and die.

  10. ruffsoft   4 years ago

    What is ignored in this argument is that IF we had enough vaccinated to create herd immunity (btw, NY city has 28% with one or no vaccines..no where near the 75-80% fully vaccinated to create herd immunity), it would stop the spread and mutations, which will consistently outpace an undervaccinated population. Many nations have crushed the virus with 99% fewer deaths that the US from Australia to China, Singpore to Vietnam, New Zealand to Nigeria.

    As for deaths, New york has an average of 7 a day the last week, Floridia, with nearly 3 times more people and a slack government response, has 27...1200% higher rate.

    1. Set Us Up The Chipper   4 years ago

      Immunity drives the evolution of the virus. When your vax only codes for one part of the virus, then selection pressures will eventually get a vaxx evading variant.

      Oceania had prior exposure, that is pretty obvious. Omicron's ancestor predates Alpha.

      1. waxliberty   4 years ago

        An anti-vax classic. Tragic how many pillars of the seductive anti-vax canon are so fundamentally and disastrously wrong.

        You need tons of circulating virus to create the conditions for random mutations to stumble upon dangerous variants.

        Both vaccines and infection-caused immunity eventually *select* for variants that evade initial forms of immunity, of course, but they do not contribute to the *creation* of those variants. Mass-scale epidemics do.

        1. Sevo   4 years ago

          "...Both vaccines and infection-caused immunity eventually *select* for variants that evade initial forms of immunity, of course, but they do not contribute to the *creation* of those variants. Mass-scale epidemics do."

          Beginner arm-waving here.
          Care to explain what you mean by 'mass-scale epidemics'?

          1. Truthfulness   4 years ago

            I doubt he knows himself, especially considering waxliberty didn't provide support for his claims at how supposedly so "wrong" we are, and I don't think he's capable of learning such.

            1. SQRLSY One   4 years ago

              There's some VERY elementary probability and statistics going on here! If there is a 1 / 10 billion chance of one SINGLE infected human having a virus mutate into a wildly new variant, that can be darned near totally ignored, safely. If there are 10 billion infected humans instead, the nasty virus has a MUCH better chance of turning nasty! Damned near "probability = 1", or, a sure thing!

              waxliberty apparently has the sense to realize that "arguing" with militantly ignorant and-or hyper-partisan politically-motivated, tribalistic, ideological idiots is a TOTAL waste of time!

              (All we can hope for is 1 or 2 intelligent and open-minded readers to see sense here, now and then).

              1. Sevo   4 years ago

                Spastic asshole with TDS should fuck off and die.

    2. daveca   4 years ago

      clever lie there...you tried to slip it in...

      Herd immunity is from the UNVACVINATED who get the virus with no serious effect and get PERMANENT IMMUNITY.

      The vax doesnt last so your sham argument falls flat. There cannot be a vaccinated immune herd.

      1. daveca   4 years ago

        ps only5-10% of the population have gotten seriously ill.

        No one else needs the vaccine...

      2. Gaear Grimsrud   4 years ago

        The idea that a leaky "vaccine" creates immunity, herd or otherwise, doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

        1. waxliberty   4 years ago

          probably a semantic issue – "immunity" as commonly used is more of a quantity than a binary state. The immune system is complex – that isn't the sign of malice on the part of scientists, just comes with the territory and millions of years of co-evolution.

      3. waxliberty   4 years ago

        Both infections and vaccines confer some level of immunity, and that immunity can fade. There is no hard/fast rule that one is better than the other; there have been conflicting studies. Even the studies suggesting infection-based immunity is stronger find that vaccines improve protection regardless of whether you have been infected or not. And of course, the idea that it is better to get infected and risk the long-term health impact and spread to others in order to avoid getting infected remains a head-scratching collapse in logic.

        1. Truthfulness   4 years ago

          It is enormously rare for a person to get covid twice. That suggests that natural immunity is far stronger than the vaccine, waxliberty.

          Perhaps you should reconsider your supposed rationalism and that the vaccines aren't as effective as what authorities have stated.

          1. SQRLSY One   4 years ago

            For anyone "out there" who is actually seeking medical truth today as best as we know it...

            https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid-19-studies-natural-immunity-versus-vaccination

            Headings for sub-sections there, imported below...

            Natural immunity fades more quickly than vaccine immunity

            Natural immunity alone is weak

            1. Don Nico   4 years ago

              "Natural immunity fades more quickly than vaccine immunity
              Natural immunity alone is weak"
              Wrong and wrong.
              Based on a cohort of >5 million persons
              "Protection and waning of natural and hybrid COVID-19 immunity<"
              Yair Goldberg, Micha Mandel, Yinon M. Bar-On3, et al.
              https://doi.org/10.1101/2021.12.04.21267114.

              But do get a booster shot.
              It will improve your chances of surviving Omicon, but it is not going to "crush the virus." Data from several highly vaxxed countries show that the spread is not slowed with respect to South Africa with only 26% vaccinated and essentially no one boosted.

          2. waxliberty   4 years ago

            "natural immunity is far stronger than the vaccine"

            I didn't argue otherwise. There is conflicting data, e.g. links to studies here: https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid-19-studies-natural-immunity-versus-vaccination

            The main problem here is just logic. Saying the better way to avoid covid is to get covid is just a logic fail.

            To get natural immunity, you have to get covid – and risk the long-term health and neurological impact, possibly consume hospital resources and also spread it to others including at risk family members.

            Vaccines offer protection that can be better for some individuals (per above) – *without having to get covid*. That's literally the point of them.

        2. MrBoz   4 years ago

          You lose me when you declare with certainty that there are long term health impacts from the virus (when we only have two years of evidence to review), but ignore the possibility of long term impact from vaccines. In livestock studies, there is decades of evidence that shows that full population vaccination regiments indeed result in more virulent viruses that survive simply by virtue of not killing the hosts. These mutations are far more deadly for the unvaxxed, meaning that its actually the vaxxed who are killing the unvaxxed - both by harboring more virulent strains of virus and by unknowingly transmitting the virus as asymptomatic carriers. In any case, as with the AGW ruse, the smoking gun is revealed by contradicting policy. With AGW, its the refusal to advance nuclear energy; with vax mandates, its the refusal to secure the border.

          1. SQRLSY One   4 years ago

            "In livestock studies, there is decades of evidence that shows that full population vaccination regiments indeed result in more virulent viruses that survive simply by virtue of not killing the hosts."

            A citation would be nice here...

            1. Don Nico   4 years ago

              It is not about viruses but bacterial infection, but you do know that we are one mutation away from a disease for which no antibiotic is effective.
              The evolutionary path toward resistant strains is similar

              1. SQRLSY One   4 years ago

                Yes, I, too, was wondering if MrBoz was confusing antibiotics resistance with vaccine resistance. Over-use of antibiotics is well known (in humans and animals both) to cause the evolution of antibiotic resistance in bacteria (viruses not relevant).

                "The evolutionary path toward resistant strains is similar"... If you mean that "excessive" vaccines are encouraging the evolution of super-killer viruses, analogous to the antibiotics problem, I would LOVE to see a reputable citation!

          2. SQRLSY One   4 years ago

            I have read that "viruses become less deadly over time so as to not kill the host" (killing the host does NOT help you, hinders you actually, as a disease, to spread). This is presumably true without without vaccines. If I put what I have in quotes to feed to "The Google Which Knows All Things", I get...

            Do Bad Viruses Always Become Good Guys in the End?https://www.mcgill.ca › oss › article › covid-19 › do-ba...
            Dec 18, 2021 — Viruses apparently always evolve to become less lethal over time. ... the host will not be able to spread the virus to someone else.

          3. SQRLSY One   4 years ago

            https://www.pfizer.com/news/hot-topics/how_do_viruses_mutate_and_what_it_means_for_a_vaccine#:~:text=As%20a%20virus%20replicates%2C%20its,virus'%20surface%20proteins%20or%20antigens.&text=Our%20immune%20system%20uses%20these%20antigens%20to%20recognize%20and%20fight%20the%20virus.

            How Do Viruses Mutate and What it Means for a Vaccine?

            FYI... But this is Pfizer's web site, so SOME people here on this forum will say the ultimate source of this is all LIES propagated by the Lizard People or some such...

            1. Sevo   4 years ago

              TDS-addled spastic asshole gets flagged.

    3. Eeyore   4 years ago

      I fully believe we reached herd immunity for the alpha variant and the alpha variant only.

      1. Don Nico   4 years ago

        No proof of that. Alpha was out-competed by Delta. That is all that we know.

    4. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

      The not-really-vaccines-at-all never offered immunity to transmission, only mitigation of symptoms.

      1. daveca   4 years ago

        ...temporarily..

        unless you got 19 shots with 47 boosters

      2. MrBoz   4 years ago

        In other words the so called vaccines are therapeutics.

        1. Don Nico   4 years ago

          Does not mean that. Only that the vaccines have a short efficacy period.
          A therapeutic is a different beast.

    5. Get To Da Chippah   4 years ago

      (btw, NY city has 28% with one or no vaccines..no where near the 75-80% fully vaccinated to create herd immunity)

      28% with one or no vaccines means that 72% are fully vaccinated. If that's not enough to even slow an outbreak, let alone stop it, then the problem is with the vaccines, not the minority who aren't fully drugged up.

    6. CaptainJack   4 years ago

      That was always nonsense. You can't achieve herd immunity from a mRNA vaccine that only creates immunity for the spike Protein. Coronaviruses are notorious for mutating quickly, especially the spike Protein.

      So all it would take for a variant like Omicron to pop up is a single, immune compromised person that has already been vaccinated to be infected and be unable to clear the infection.

      The virus would replicate within them and mutate thousands of times and the mutations that could evade antibodies invoked by the vaccines would be the mutations to survive and replicate and mutate more. Soon enough you have a variant that evades vaccines in healthy patients and it spreads through the population.

      If you have enough immune compromised people, it happens even faster.

      So unless you plan on executing all the people with immune deficiency disorders, it is absurd to blame the variants on the unvaccinated.

      It would have taken full eradication of the virus to prevent mutations. And there is not a single epidemiologist I have heard even suggest eradicating COVID is even possible.

    7. waxliberty   4 years ago

      Unfortunately you need herd immunity at global, not local, scale to stop spread and mutations.

      1. Pepin the short   4 years ago

        I’ll live you won’t.

      2. Get To Da Chippah   4 years ago

        So then you accept that it's impossible to get 6-7 billion people vaccinated in order to achieve herd immunity, especially with 'vaccines' that wane in protection after 90 days. Which means herd immunity was an impossible goal, which means that once again world leaders lied to the populace.

        1. waxliberty   4 years ago

          "world leaders"

          There are a lot of different states, countries, provinces. I'm not a representative of any of them.

          I'm a skeptic, so I can address the general spirit of the grievance signal here if you really wish. I hear lots of leaders talking about saving lives as a goal in and of itself, and protecting health care capacity. Vaccines serve both of those goals, so no, I do not believe the anti-vaccine grievance chorus is well-founded. Vaccines were developed to help, not to oppress. I am not a fan of the impulse to build victim mythology and I do not understand it's appeal, I'm sorry.

          1. waxliberty   4 years ago

            I have also heard many health care leaders acknowledge the likely endemic endgame, so there was no lying about the difficulty of the path ahead.

            Knowing some variant of the virus will likely survive doesn't mean you leap right to "letting the virus run free", overwhelm hospitals, pile up the bodies by the millions and burn them. Influenza today is a nuisance we develop annual vaccines for. The 1918 strain wasn't a nuisance when it started, feel free to read about it.

    8. swillfredo pareto   4 years ago

      As for deaths, New york has an average of 7 a day the last week, Floridia, with nearly 3 times more people and a slack government response, has 27...1200% higher rate.

      Can you show me where you normalized the data in your infantile analysis?

    9. Sevo   4 years ago

      "...As for deaths, New york has an average of 7 a day the last week, Floridia, with nearly 3 times more people and a slack government response, has 27...1200% higher rate..."

      Assuming a lack of cherry-picking (which is sort of indicated by the obvious bias) note that the populations are close to 3:1, while the deaths ~4:1, which, if you are honest, you would characterize as a 33% increase.
      Notice also there is zero reference to vaccination rates, nor any control for population age.
      Our newest chicken little is one more dishonest lefty shit.
      An, dishonest lefty shit, what medical care I get is none of your business.
      Fuck off.

    10. Hank Ferrous   4 years ago

      'IF we had enough vaccinated to create herd immunity,' this is a vaccinated population, not a description of herd immunity. The 'specialist' talking heads tend to misuse the term.

  11. Set Us Up The Chipper   4 years ago

    Not recognizing infection acquired immunity was the first mistake they made regarding vaccines. Over selling the effectiveness of the vaccines was another major faux pas. Then pushing it on the 5-11 crowd when Pfizer admitted they could not get a disease severity signal cause the base risk was too low to support significance. Strike three when you piss off the mommas, even the suburban Karen's are bristling at the idea of injecting their babies...well not all but enough to move the needle.

    1. daveca   4 years ago

      "Not recognizing infection acquired immunity"

      doesnt further theProfit Motive.

      Ibama - TBTF banks
      Obiden- drug cos.

      They must be getting millions in kickbacks

    2. waxliberty   4 years ago

      "Not recognizing infection acquired immunity"

      didn't happen.

      "Over selling the effectiveness of the vaccines"

      didn't happen. Certainly not if you read anything.

      "pushing it on the 5-11 crowd when Pfizer admitted they could not get a disease severity signal cause the base risk was too low"

      For those at high risk and to prevent spread, as no doubt you know but pretend not to for grievance signaling sake.

      "even the suburban Karen's"

      were a core of the anti-vaccine demographic long before you all jumped on the bandwagon.

      1. JesseAz   4 years ago

        Well you seem convinced by the CNN articles you took as gospel.

        1. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

          Lemon journalism at his finest.

        2. waxliberty   4 years ago

          Comically predictable and empty comment. I like the self-own in this one – "the media said [false thing]". "Huh, no they didn't, who said that?" "You must listen to CNN!" "Yeah you want to rethink that reply genius?"

          If you want to substantiate it, go for it. Make my day, quote the CDC saying there is no infection-acquired immunity of any kind, if you like.

          Unless it's empty grievance and victim signaling, of course. But we know it can't be that.

          1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

            Don lemon is a predator.

            1. Chumby   4 years ago

              Charlie Rose and Matt Lauer approve this message.

      2. Set Us Up The Chipper   4 years ago

        You packed a lotta stupid in one post, well done sir.

        1. daveca   4 years ago

          I dont wanna know what Jesses " packing"

        2. waxliberty   4 years ago

          Feel free to explain what's stupid, anti-vax genius.

          Note to those not used to rational debate: arguments are more persuasive when supported by something. You can read about 'reason' online – let me know if you'd like a link.

          1. DesigNate   4 years ago

            You aren’t engaging in rational debate you fucktarded troll.

        3. The Great Negro   4 years ago

          Which dumb faggot are you?

    3. Eeyore   4 years ago

      It was the first lie that really made it obvious that they didn't give a fuck about health.

    4. Aude   4 years ago

      I wouldn't say overselling vaccine effectiveness as much as dumbing it down for the scientifically illiterate, and this has been occurring for decades with the flu vaccine. The measure of vaccine efficacy isn't to prevent the recipient from 'catching' the pathogen (aka sterilizing immunity), rather it's preventing or reducing deaths, serious illness, symptoms, and/or viral shedding. A vaccine may prevent death 100% but have 0% efficacy at reducing viral shedding resulting in a virus that circulates through the vaccinated population just as well as the unvaccinated population.

      A vaccine that prevents shedding of strain A by 100% but has no impact on the shedding of strain B decreases the prevalence of strain A in the population. Then you get headlines that the vaccine is 0% effective (against the circulating strain somewhere in the body of the story) without a discussion that it is effective against strain A and is doing its job so well that strain B is now the circulating strain. This example is brought to you by flu vaccine efficacy discussions in the media in the last few decades and a topic deemed too complex for the public.

  12. daveca   4 years ago

    Where are the Socks? Did someone nail the Sock Drawer shut?

    1. OUTSTANDING ARTICLE. Its berm 3 in a row!

    The message ALWAYS includes personal attacks.. with Marxist Outgrouping against anyone denying Central Communist power.

    "the government orders "have not provided the significant boost to state and local vaccination rates that some experts had hoped for." To the contrary: "

    With a healthy dose of "Go Fuck Yourself Joe!"

  13. MadVirginiaGuy   4 years ago

    There are periodic outbreaks of Measles, German Measles (rubella)
    among the antivax crowd.
    I have little sympathy for them.
    Parents made a choice for their children, they can live with the consequences.

    1. daveca   4 years ago

      always attacking people arent you?

      Thatsthe Leftist two step...blame and attack.

      So pathetic

    2. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

      You mean, actually serious diseases?

    3. Gaear Grimsrud   4 years ago

      I had measles as a child. More than once. Sixty years later I'm still here. Fuck off Karen.

      1. waxliberty   4 years ago

        I know it's hard to stay hip on the internet, especially for us older folks. You aren't quite using the "Karen" meme correctly. It wasn't really invented for your uses, but if you must use it, you can apply it to people who are irrationally afraid of vaccines and loudly want everyone to listen to them about it, and not be *wildly* off.

        1. Sevo   4 years ago

          Or those irrationally frightened of a relatively mild disease, like you.

          1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

            Lots of people are afraid of air.

            1. DarrenM   4 years ago

              You could have easily left off the "of air" part.

              1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

                I could have.

  14. Joe Friday   4 years ago

    Pretty embarrassing when the magazine named "Reason" has a numb nuts idiot for an editor.

    It still is unfortunately the epidemic of the unvaccinated. Here is the data for New York state, which has been leading in new cases this last week or so. Notice anything?

    Week of Dec 13 2021
    NEW CASES HOSPITALIZATION
    Vaccinated per 100,000 = 67 1.33
    Unvaccinated per 100,000 = 280 16.25

    You can see these numbers here -

    https://coronavirus.health.ny.gov/covid-19-breakthrough-data

    1. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

      I feel your pain, loser.

      1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

        He’s just trying to cope with impending doom.

        1. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

          Midterms around the corner... Time to zher rush the fortifications.

    2. MrBoz   4 years ago

      So, you are making the argument that the vaccinated people are killing the unvaxxed. Typical of what we see in livestock populations that are heavily vaccinated - mutations into more lethal strains of virus that make unvaxxed more sick, and circulation and transmission from asymptomatic (vaxxed) carriers to unvaxxed population. Evidenced by increased hospitalization rates among unvaxxed population over that which we had when there were no vaccines.

  15. AbiGezunt   4 years ago

    Officials have used the term 'pandemic of the unvaccinated.' It was a poor term to describe the value of vaccinations. It was scientifically incorrect to suggest that vaccinated people cannot become infected with or spread COVID-19.

    Rather, vaccinations should be viewed as the best method currently available for reducing your likelihood of developing severe disease requiring hospitalization or long-term complications or dying. That does not make for a pithy quote.

    However, when Pres. Biden suggested that getting a vaccine or wearing a mask is patriotic, as a child raised by a 35-year army veteran, i understood exactly what he meant. As Mr. Welch suggests, "studying ... behavioral science" is important. That should include appeals to logic, morality, and yes, patriotism.

    If one is devoted to one's country and one's fellow citizens, then one does whatever is in one's power to safely do to protect those around them. At the moment, those who are most in need of protection are our medical providers - from the check-in counter folk and cleaning crews to the nurses and physicians. The burdens that have been placed on them for nearly two years are breaking them. Patients with other serious health issues are suffering because the medical system has no time for them.

    If you are truly unable to be vaccinated, then be sure to wear a mask in public. If you think you would consider being vaccinated, then speak to a medical professional to determine if any associated risks are acceptable to you. And even if vaccinated, since you can still pass on this airborne disease, wear a mask.

    If you pledge loyalty to this country, then devote yourself to protecting those around you. Get a shot, if you can. Wear a mask around other people. It is that simple.

    1. daveca   4 years ago

      but getying the shot doesnt work, Concern Troll.

      Havent kept up with the news?

    2. JimboJr   4 years ago

      "If you are truly unable to be vaccinated, then be sure to wear a mask in public. If you think you would consider being vaccinated, then speak to a medical professional to determine if any associated risks are acceptable to you. And even if vaccinated, since you can still pass on this airborne disease, wear a mask."

      Ill help you out. "If you are vaccinated and so scared of a disease with a <<<1% mortality rate, I advise you to stay in your house with your blanky until you feel safe to rejoin society. Im not wearing my fucking mask, and if you bring your Karen energy out on me in public ill knock a few of your teeth out for bothering me. Stay home if you cannot tolerate a risk significantly lower than driving your car to work"

      1. daveca   4 years ago

        Yeah what he said!"

      2. waxliberty   4 years ago

        "you cannot tolerate a risk significantly lower than driving your car to work"

        Logic is hard.

        So, *significantly* more than ~430K people die of driving to work in a typical year in the U.S.? Like 10x more, or...?

        1. JimboJr   4 years ago

          The fun thing about that figure is some of those "430K people" that died actually died of car wrecks and they swabbed them for COVID. Guess what ended up on their death certificate.

          Come back to me when you have data that isnt produced by (manipulated by) people with a control, profit, and fear motive. Come back to me when the govt isnt giving hospitals more incentive to label a death of COVID, directly, for financial gain. Come back when half of congress doesnt invest heavily in a company that produces vaccines mysteriously before they then mandate everyone gets 2 doses and a booster.

          'fuck outta here with your made up bullshit and incorrect models

          1. waxliberty   4 years ago

            "The fun thing about that figure is some of those "430K people" that died actually died of car wrecks and they swabbed them for COVID"

            Apologies, I'm a skeptic. Is your claim here real, or is it more of a conspiracy theory you heard in media? Do you happen to have a citation? Do you have some way of convincing yourself that this is a real factor in death counts, that you could show to a skeptic such as myself?

            1. Pepin the short   4 years ago

              Your old, scared and going to die soon. From a mild cough

              1. waxliberty   4 years ago

                So many charmers. Women must flock to this stuff.

                1. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

                  Fuck off and die, slaver.

                2. Sevo   4 years ago

                  Such a pathetic piece of lefty shit; your dog probably can't stand the smell of you.
                  Fuck off and die, asshole

      3. Don Nico   4 years ago

        "<<<1% mortality rate,"
        That buddy, is a bold faced LIE.

    3. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

      Except the not-vaccine doesn't prevent transmission...

      So... No.

    4. rudehost   4 years ago

      It’s hard to be loyal to a country they tries to force you into medical treatments. Sorry the patriotism card does zilch for me.

    5. Joe Friday   4 years ago

      +10 AbiGezunt. If we had many citizens during WWII with the attitude prevalent at this site , we'd be speaking German.

      1. Brian   4 years ago

        And if we had many citizens like democrats, we’d be speaking Russian.

        1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

          I thought Russians were the bad guys? Or did that change again?

          1. DarrenM   4 years ago

            Russians were the good guys in WW2. It's relative and subject to change.

            1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

              They were the bad guys five years ago.

            2. damikesc   4 years ago

              You could make an argument we would've been better just fighting Japan for a while and allow Germany and USSR to bleed each other out.

    6. Irishman12   4 years ago

      Wear a mask around other people. It is that simple.

      are you so dense that you think the commonly worn face masks do anything at all to prevent any type of spread, as air is forced out of the numerous openings on the sides and top of the mask and the aerosolized particles hang in the air for lengthy periods of time...?

      do your glasses fog up when you wear a mask...? the mask ain't doing what you think its's doing...

      I'm sure you've seen guys with beards wearing masks that float on top of the protruding hair? do you seriouly think they're protecting anybody...?

      how in the world is it possible that two years into this nonsense you haven't realized how useless the contrived muzzles are...and btw, calling people unpatriotic because they don't buy into your nonsensical fears is pretty damn scurrilous on your part...

      1. daveca   4 years ago

        masks dont protect anyone says cdc research.

        Its that simple

      2. JimboJr   4 years ago

        Aside from the fact that there is no data that supports masks consistently, the masks that most of polite society accepts are grossly inadequate if you REALLY wanted to reduce spread.

        If that was the case govt would be handing out N95s and anyone serious about it would wear them all the time. But thats not what happens.

        Even in the deepest blue liberal areas, a group of people will walk by a hostess stand with a bandana half over their face and immediately take it off while dining indoors some 4 feet away from the next table. This happens every day, in every deep blue city. It is proof that masks have become nothing more than a religious talisman and theater for those that desire them. Nothing more.

        If dirty air concerns you I suggest getting a good HEPA filter and not leaving your house. Theres a lot of scary stuff in the world, best wrap up in your blanky at home junior.

      3. Sevo   4 years ago

        "Wear a mask around other people. It is that simple."

        It's even simpler: Stuff it up your ass.
        Don't wanna chance getting sick? Stay home. Your health is your responsibility, not mine.

      4. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

        Fuck off, slaver.

    7. Unicorn Abattoir   4 years ago

      Get up off of your damn knees. And if you take a look at the various loyalty oaths the federal government uses, they're all oaths to the Constitution.

      And your argument is just plain stupid.

    8. Sevo   4 years ago

      "...If one is devoted to one's country and one's fellow citizens, then one does whatever is in one's power to safely do to protect those around them..."

      Your health is your responsibility, not mine, regardless of wrapping yourself in the flag.
      And always remember, asshole: "patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel"
      Stuff it up your ass.

    9. MrBoz   4 years ago

      Sounds like a personal health choice to me. Get vaxxed and thank President Trump if you like ... leave others alone with your phony virtue signaling.

  16. JimboJr   4 years ago

    But if we cant demonize and scapegoat a group for our troubles, how do we fascism?

    1. daveca   4 years ago

      What comes after Ludicrous Speed?

      The Crash.

      1. daveca   4 years ago

        I do not want Large Fries with that.

    2. waxliberty   4 years ago

      Make your scapegoat group scientists, journalists and public health officials, and claim it is all lies. You can still throw in Jews in the financial sector to give it that zing.

      1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

        Eat shit nazi.

      2. JimboJr   4 years ago

        The groups you listed (specifically journos and public health officials) have openly pushed propaganda and lied to the public (many times, documented) "for their own good". The group who the president has specifically called out and openly, unscientifically, demonized are trying to have body autonomy and be left alone.

        One of these things isnt like the other, useful idiot

        1. waxliberty   4 years ago

          "The group who the president has specifically called out and openly, unscientifically, demonized"

          The unvaccinated?

          Look, as stated elsewhere it all boils down to truth. If you're right, and it's a conspiracy of lies then yes all of us skeptics and rationalists have been useful idiots who didn't see the plandemic.

          Can you see that, from the perspective of someone who cares about truth, that it is not enough to just assert that the truth is as you say, when it contradicts independently conducted tests around the globe?

          1. JimboJr   4 years ago

            "Can you see that, from the perspective of someone who cares about truth, that it is not enough to just assert that the truth is as you say, when it contradicts independently conducted tests around the globe?"

            How did you feel about them saying masks did nothing, then openly admitting they thought they DID do something, but didnt want people to go out and buy them up...for their own good. They directly told people something they thought at the time would actually be harmful to them, to protect health care workers.

            Then when they thought they were in the clear with PPE supplies, they said everyone needed one, or two! Cloth, N95, anything, just put something on! In fact the CDC cited with authority that masks are proven to be effective for kids in school! Oh but that study they were relying on heavily was clearly poorly conducted, shoddy data, and anyone actually in the scientific community (I can tell that you are not) could see from a mile away that you couldn't reach the conclusion they did from such a poor study...but the top men in charge used that to force mask mandates. You know...those people who just want THE TRUTH! The "rationalists" (lmao) as you say.

            Everyone can see right through your bullshit. And theirs. Its about control and doing what we tell you to do, under the guise of "the science". You fuckers are nearly illiterate when it comes to analyzing data and scientific studies. You cling on to an authoritative source that agrees with you, no matter how incorrect it may be, call it the science, and call any argument against it misinformation. Your playbook is tired, and America isnt having it anymore. Youll excuse everyone if we dont believe you the 10th time you openly lie

            1. waxliberty   4 years ago

              "How did you feel about them saying masks did nothing, then openly admitting they thought they DID do something"

              What actually happened: “Our advice remains as it has been that the average American does not need a N95 mask. These are really more for health care providers.”

              The fiends, prioritizing health care workers. To the grievance signal Batman.

              Can you help me understand the appeal of this victim and conspiracy framing about how they "lied"?

              "You fuckers are nearly illiterate when it comes to analyzing data and scientific studies"

              Yeah sure. It is always the political science critics who are the real science pros, and the practicing scientists and rationalists who are incompetent. Until you dig into the details. Then the ideologues are full of shit, ten times out of ten.

              Read up and down the thread. How has it gone here?

          2. MrBoz   4 years ago

            For someone who "cares about the truth", you're carrying a lot of water for those who've been lying to you. Weird.

            1. waxliberty   4 years ago

              You're spending a disproportionate amount of time complaining about being a victim of lying without spending much time proving it is so. Seems weird. My apologies for not understanding the appeal.

              What lie about vaccines would you select as the best example of the problem you are signaling over?

  17. Hickamore   4 years ago

    So Reason's irresponsible coverage of the politics of COVID continues unabated. The article ADMITS the factual truth of Biden's statement, when understood in its intended sense: those hospitalized with COVID are OVERWHELMINGLY unvaccinated. Period. Now, you can argue that mandates and "bulling" don't work, but that's a separate issue from the factual truth of the message.
    Other criticism of official messaging is equally unfair. OK, cloth masks are basically worthless, but the REASON the govt originally said don't mask was fear for a run on the KN-95 type masks needed for medical workers and in short supply. Also, look at what public officials are contending with: venomously lying conspiratorians on the other side, advocating quack "cures" and "god's will." How about a little equivalence here? Free speech doesn't mean freedom from criticism, and government messaging isn't prima facie authoritarian bullshit just because you're a libertarian. The rest is all Monday-morning quarterbacking on the handling of a FUCKING PREVIOUSLY UNKNOWN VIRUS about which we continue to learn more. So officials dealing in good faith for the public interest against a MOVING TARGET deliver moving messages. DUH! How much better would you critics have done in place of the officials? My bet is you'd have done a hell of a lot worse.

    1. Union of Concerned Socks   4 years ago

      Never go full retard.

    2. Joe Friday   4 years ago

      +10 Hickamore. The babies on this site throw an unending tantrum because the vaccine which was developed in break neck speed and with safety and effectiveness records unbeatable in the real world of medicine don't somehow meet their fantasies and those in science and medicine struggling with this serious virus aren't perfect, like them. These idiots don't want a solution, they want a storyline to feed their paranoid dreams where they are the warriors for freedom. Freedom for them is the ability to crap on everyone else, not only with impunity, but including a medal.

      Ooooh, I hope that didn't bully somebody or cause hard feelings among the freedom snowflakes!

      1. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

        The Trump vaccine? The one with no long term data? The one we can't sue for issue over? The one we won't know the details for 55 years? The one that doesn't prevent transmission?

        Yes, continue to follow that sciencism, Barbie Jack. I will respect your right to personal physical autonomy.

        1. Joe Friday   4 years ago

          Doofus, hundreds of millions of doses administered with a safety record unmatched by other vaccines, with an effectiveness rate with the best of them.

          But hey, don't get yours genius. Be a man!

          1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

            Jump off a bridge and improve the world.

          2. Gaear Grimsrud   4 years ago

            Clearly we can be absolutely assured of the complete safety of an experimental gene therapy forced on millions of people within less than a year. And by effectiveness you mean a non sterilizing "vaccine" that creates variants that require more "vaccines"? Yeah unmatched. But maybe not exactly the way you think they are.

            1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

              You don’t trust corrupt billionaires?

            2. Joe Friday   4 years ago

              Sure Gaear. Hundreds of millions of doses and none of the side effects are significant or in anyway more dangerous than Covid. But hey let's test it for few years before we use it. Do you understand that though mRNA is a new technology they have been working on it for at least 6 years and understand how it works and what the risks are. Hey genius, maybe we should waited on D Day to run more tests to make sure the landing craft was safe.

              1. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

                I have linked you this several times. You have no intellectual honesty.

                https://vaersanalysis.info

                More deadly than ALL other (real) vaccines since '90 combined. To not even cure the coof.

                Stick your dick in a socket.

                1. Joe Friday   4 years ago

                  Salted, your anonymous website is a politicized and BS use of BS database, which the actual Vaers site notes is not confirmed and can be reported to by anyone.

              2. Chumby   4 years ago

                The Allies did run exercises to prepare for D Day including Exercise Tiger. The problem with the landing was the national socialists that were shooting.

          3. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

            https://vaersanalysis.info

            Eat shit, choke on Brandon's corn pop and fall into traffic you obtuse progshit.

          4. damikesc   4 years ago

            "safety record unmatched by other vaccines"

            Would LOVE documentation of this.

      2. MrBoz   4 years ago

        No - we just want to be left the fuck alone by you chicken littles. If you like the vax, take it and thank President Trump ... who is trying to stop you?

    3. daveca   4 years ago

      Hyperventilation will make you post incongruent fragmented comments like that.

      Take a breath of air instead of paint.

    4. Don't look at me!   4 years ago

      … against a MOVING TARGET deliver moving messages…

      So the science isn’t settled?

    5. Sevo   4 years ago

      "...OK, cloth masks are basically worthless, but the REASON the govt originally said don't mask was fear for a run on the KN-95 type masks needed for medical workers and in short supply..."

      Thre's always some excuse for authoritarians to demand contol of your life, isn't there?
      Besides which, lefty shit, why do we still have mask mandates?

    6. Hank Ferrous   4 years ago

      'Irresponsible' = I don't like it. You are a biased, partisan hack. And likely an asshole, based on the ignorant assertions you've made.

    7. MrBoz   4 years ago

      Sorry, but "officials" that fund the development of an enhanced virus, then construct a facade to cover up its origins, then reverse previously held positions in order to push a new authoritarian order, and that hide behind opaque a questionable data and studies to defend its diktats, are not operating in good faith. Sheep all you want - leave me the fuck alone.

  18. Taito7   4 years ago

    I think the hospitalization rates tell the whole story. A vaccine doesn't prevent you from ever coming in contact with a virus, but it stops it from kicking your ass. Simply treat covid hospitalization like every other hospitalization and when people see the co pays from ICUs go viral, they can make a choice that doesn't put financial strain on the rest of society to financially support contrarians.

    1. daveca   4 years ago

      False meme you threw in at the end....
      Treating it the same is WHY IT SPREADS.

      They should be isolated.
      .Stupid comment

    2. mulched   4 years ago

      No, the vaccine does not stop serious illness from Covid. It reduces the already very low possibility of a severe case.

    3. MrBoz   4 years ago

      Like when we did this with AIDS? //Sarc

  19. Dillinger   4 years ago

    love when the Science! tells me I was right to ignore it all along

    1. daveca   4 years ago

      The ordinary flu science told us that.

      That flu vax is guesswork and fails.

      This couldnt be a better outcome in a rush!

  20. I, Woodchipper   4 years ago

    It's a conspiracy theory from wingnut.com that the government will try to implent vaccine passports to be able to go shopping... cue 2021 "hold my beer"

    1. daveca   4 years ago

      Quute a liar there..
      .They have implemented passports in other countries.

      False meme Fail.

      1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

        Maybe it was sarcasm?
        Who can tell anymore.

        1. daveca   4 years ago

          As many thousands of Troll comments Ive seen since 2009 its easy to tell.

          They all have patterns like these here- start off with a conciliatory agrerable comment then suddenly divert to the Libtard talking point.

          1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

            I’m not arguing.

            1. daveca   4 years ago

              sarcasm should come with the sarc tag..

              /sarc

      2. DesigNate   4 years ago

        I, Woodchipper was being sarcastic.

  21. daveca   4 years ago

    Its un Patriotic to refuse to turn Jews in.

    They are unclean and spread disease.

    They are a danger to Ayran purity.

    A. Hitler

    1. JimboJr   4 years ago

      Thought about this concept when that little antifa wanna be on the flight posted a picture of a man with his mask ONLY covering 90% of his face and that they were essentially trying to dox him for less than full compliance and subservience to the state. Picture, airline, seat number everything.

      We look back at Germany and think of them through the lens of "how could people let it get that far" like it was this once in a lifetime horrific display of the worst of human nature, but the same undercurrent is happening today

      1. daveca   4 years ago

        My college Psych teacher said it never went away...

        Yes they just showed that on TV..after their nightly blame storming blaming the unvaxxed and segwaying into that flight incident...carefully creating a Blame Storm.

        NBC news...Made in China

      2. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

        Holy Godwin, Batman!

        Hyperbolic hysteria.

        1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

          You assholes killed Godwin.
          Live with it.

          1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

            You seem to be the one living with it. Hell, soaking in it.

            1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

              It not Godwin if it true.

              1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

                Lol, do you usually speak in the language of Tonto?

                1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

                  Go ahead and hate native Americans.

                  1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

                    Tonto's speech was not authentic, of course. Nice try my inarticulate friend.

                    1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

                      Eat shit white boy.

  22. daveca   4 years ago

    The Knoxville TV news... man arrested with 50 pounds of pot...

    Then the urgent correction... TWO POUNDS.

    Its gonna be a Happy Stoned New Years at the Knox Co Sherriffs Office.

    1. Hank Ferrous   4 years ago

      Somebody's making the world's next biggest pot brownie...

  23. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

    Since when did Reason writers read the comments? Who redpilled Welch? I need to buy that person a drink!

    1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

      Welch is headed to room 101.

    2. Eeyore   4 years ago

      If anything, my guess, it has to do with nonsense related to his offspring.

      1. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

        He was awfully irate when it finally touched him personally.

      2. Hank Ferrous   4 years ago

        This is likely true. Once it became personal, school-related, he started writing more civil-liberty focused, less douchey stuff.

  24. daveca   4 years ago

    3,000 flights cancelled due to the Omi-cold virus

    1,000 flights cancelled...

    59 flights cancelled...

    .Two Mormon elders missed connecting flights...

    Jeez what transparent liars!

  25. Chumby   4 years ago

    Rest in Partisanship

    Covid is a red herring.

    1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

      “Red Herring” would be a great name for a commie supervillain.

      1. American Mongrel   4 years ago

        He was the villain in "a pup named scooby doo"

  26. Hal   4 years ago

    It is very simple. I (and many millions of Americans) no longer believe anything any government official says about COVID and/or the vaccine. Government officials include Fauci et al. They have lied some many times and have exercised such poor judgement, see closing of schools/masking of children, etc., that they have forfeited any expectation that they should be believed about anything. They can keep talking. I am done listening.

    1. Eeyore   4 years ago

      The age old fable of, "The little old man who cried variant".

    2. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

      Yep. They have demonstrated that my interests and health are not a driving factor in their policy adequately enough.

  27. ADL   4 years ago

    The vaccines are utter shit. That's obvious to everyone except the most partisan, indoctrinated idiots among us, who will still be harping "safe and effective" until their chronic myocarditis finally kills them after the 57th booster.

    1. daveca   4 years ago

      Its impossible to know who DIDNT get sick bc. of the vaccine.

      It is VERY easy to know who died BECAUSE they got the vaccine!

      50,000 plus and CDC hiding the data.

      1. ADL   4 years ago

        As I mentioned elsewhere, the mandates are all about eliminating the control group.

  28. JasonAZ   4 years ago

    "Outgoing National Institutes of Health (NIH) Director Francis Collins did an interview with NPR this month that included this startling admission: "I do think we need to understand better how—in the current climate—people make decisions….To have now 60 million people still holding off of taking advantage of lifesaving vaccines is pretty unexpected. It does make me, at least, realize, 'Boy, there are things about human behavior that I don't think we had invested enough into understanding.'" Boy!"

    What he really means: I cannot believe 60 million people are not brain-washed to believe whatever their betters tell them. Right Artie?

    1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

      It's not about 'betters.' It's about inductive logic: who is more likely to know more about a topic, the people who have gobs of education and experience in it, or relative amateurs with two month's Google experience?

      1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

        How about people who don’t lie for a living?

        1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

          So most people with education and experience in this area are lying for a living? I mean, the possibility that your amateur self is wrong here is, of course, off the table. It's just a big conspiracy with all those lying experts...

          1. ElvisIsReal   4 years ago

            The numbers always said I shouldn't be worried about the virus, and when I eventually got it, it wasn't a big deal. Just like for 99.7% of my age bracket.

            This isn't secret knowledge or anything, yet the 'experts' claim I'm putting myself at risk without the 0.25% protection the shot provides.

            For kids the 'boost' is even smaller, yet the 'leaders' want to mandate it for children to go to school.

      2. Unicorn Abattoir   4 years ago

        who is more likely to know more about a topic

        Appeal to anonymous authority.

        1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

          Ah, this poor fellow took the Intro to Logic in Community College, it covered Deductive Fallacies but didn't get to Inductive Logic, and he thinks he got all he needs. Cute!

          1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

            Kill yourself you dumb nazi.

            1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

              Do you not love your mom, she'd be bereft if I did what you asked!

              (sorry for the use of that Big Fancy Word, she says they make you very angry)

              1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

                Kill yourself nazi

                1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

                  So you don't love your mom? She's quite free with her love, if you know what I mean.

                  1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

                    Your mom died when you were young didn’t she?

          2. JimboJr   4 years ago

            Its funny. The people who throw around the word "logic" online a lot tend to be those who cant hold their ground in any way in a debate, have the least education, and no reasoning abilities. Almost every time.

            Its kind of cringe to watch. Like a retard putting on a sherlock holmes hat and thinking that is convincing anyone that they know what they are talking about.

            1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

              What's cringe worthy is you not getting that the original comment about appeal to authority was a deductive logic claim.

            2. Hank Ferrous   4 years ago

              I have found that there is little correlation between education, specifically having a degree, or where the degree was earned, and intelligence. I agree, rational thinking is not often found in those folks who introduce themselves with their education credentials. QA is droning on today with it's typical asinine bullshit, and is an excellent case in point. Purportedly an adjunct professor, it rarely makes an argument that is more than a false assertion, an ad hominem, or an outright lie. All couched in pseudo-intellectual jargon, which makes one think that it just read the material to which it is referring.

          3. Unicorn Abattoir   4 years ago

            Ah, this poor fellow took the Intro to Logic in Community College

            Ad Hominem.

    2. daveca   4 years ago

      "To have now 60 million people still holding off of taking advantage of lifesaving vaccines"

      Gaslighting and Attacking the Messenger...Leftist Memestorming 101

      Carefully phrased to Attack soneone.

      .How Bout the 50,000 killed BY the vaccines?

      Odd how they ignore that fact.

      1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

        "How Bout the 50,000 killed BY the vaccines?"

        Are you talking about this?

        https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaccine-48000/fact-check-no-evidence-over-48000-people-died-within-14-days-of-receiving-covid-19-vaccine-idUSL1N2R41J6

        1. Eeyore   4 years ago

          The same Reuters who's parent company's CEO is on Pfizer's board of directors?

          Excellent unbiased source of information.

      2. daveca   4 years ago

        no one wants Large Fries

  29. JasonAZ   4 years ago

    "lifesaving vaccines"

    Seems to be the new catch phrase. Moving on from "safe and effective".

    Safe? Imagine, not being honest and transparent about side effects would make people question your motives. Eh Mike and Joe Friday?

    Effective? "The only way to end the pandemic is the VACCINE!!!" Yet, you still have to wear a mask. And distance. And, hide at home from traveling. SMH. And, of course, the vaccinated can still get sick and transmit the disease. Omicron is plowing right through vaccinated folks. Yet, my work keeps telling us the vaccine gives you immunity! Of course, the CDC was saying the same not so long ago...

  30. Noodles123   4 years ago

    All the time their studies and facts are shown to be lies...So I don't trust their charts and graphs.

    They keep changing the definition of "Vaccinated"

    Imagine having (2) shots and trying to go to somewhere and they say without the Booster you can't because to them you're Unvaxxed.

    Or as in the UK or Israel where without your 3rd or 4th shot you are considered "UNVAXXED."

    Then they pop up these charts and tell you how the sick are UNVAXXED.

    No they're not...You just changed teh definition of it to keep everyone scared and under government control.

    Look to Austria, Australia, NZ, the UK, Canada and see how they're treating their people.

    1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

      Pedantry is not a solid foundation for much.

      I mean, if if pleases you plug 'less vaxxed' in for the 'unvaxxed' that vexes you so much.

      1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

        Kill yourself

        1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

          This is the level of the anti-vaxxer's argument, good summary!

          1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

            It’ll be over for you soon faggot.

            1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

              Soon? That's odd, you're mom always wants it to be longer...

              1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

                Keep eating shit.

                1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

                  Again, odd, it's your mom Sevo that wanted to eat that...

                  1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

                    Tell the truth, asshole.

          2. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

            It's more than you deserve you lying progshit. Your literacy is selective for CNN talking points, so the only thing you get now is this:

            Fuck off, slaver.

  31. Jerryskids   4 years ago

    The big problem with that chart is that it's a lie.

    Notice there are only two lines on it - the unvaccinated and the fully vaccinated. Where are the partially vaccinated? Oh, they're there - they're counted as the unvaccinated. You know who else is counted as unvaccinated? Anybody who received the vaccine and then contracted Covid less than two weeks later.

    Now, this virus has been around for two years now, if I've managed to avoid it for two years, then I get the jab and less than two weeks later I've suddenly caught the coof? You bet your ass I'm going to have some questions about that vaccine. Mainly, how the hell did I avoid the virus for two years and yet less than two weeks after getting the jab I'm suddenly testing positive for the virus? Did the vaccine give me the virus or did the vaccine suddenly cause me to get a false positive result from the test? What the hell's going on here?

    So what I want to see is an actual breakdown of that chart - how many cases are there among the fully vaccinated, the partially vaccinated, the recently vaccinated, and the fully unvaccinated? And is the "fully vaccinated" a moving target that now includes not only those who got the vaccine but also the booster shot? And the other booster shot?

    1. daveca   4 years ago

      theyre ALL not fully vaccinated since its proven it doesnt work or last.

      Theyre not protected between initial doses and not for a time after the second and noone knows when the Temporary Vaccine wears off...

    2. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

      Previous vaccine work with SARS struggled with a similar issue; the vaccines actually enhanced the adverse reactions.

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3335060/

  32. PedroMartinez1   4 years ago

    Creepy joey has been corrupt from the day he stepped into a political career and likely long before that. He has a history of lying, pandering, condescending, graft, perversion, and downright stupidity. If this Jackass was truly elected by the people of this country, instead of selected by the mercantilists, then either way we are witnessing the death throes of this nation.

    1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

      "mercantilists"

      WTF?

    2. daveca   4 years ago

      Hes a CRIMINAL.

      He committed the CRIME of extortion in re threatening the Ukraine Official that Obama would withhold funds..

      A crime committed overseas us prosecutable in the US.

      1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

        They threatened to withhold funds over the corruption. Many other nations did the same (were they in on the conspiracy?).

        And then didn't Trump kind of threaten a Ukraine official with withholding?

        1. damikesc   4 years ago

          ...except Shokin HAD investigations going. Concerning enough for the oligarch to flee Ukraine. He came back following Shokin's ouster.

          And Trump asked them to investigate. He did not threaten to remove anything.

      2. daveca   4 years ago

        Go huff paint Troll

        1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

          What an intelligent, humane person you are!

          1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

            And you’re a nazi fuck.

            1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

              Lol, you're exactly what the Nazi party looked for if you want to go that route. An angry, angry, easy dupe.

              1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

                You can’t deny reality forever nazi.

                1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

                  Reality? Your mom often says 'take me to Pleasure Town.' Is that denying reality?

                  1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

                    You can’t escape the truth asshole.

  33. Geri   4 years ago

    These vaccines plainly are ineffective, toxic and lethal.

    1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

      Lol, yes, *plainly!*

      Unvaccinated 12-34 year-olds in Washington are
      • 4 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 12-34 year-olds.
      • 19 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 12-34 year-
      olds.
      Unvaccinated 35-64 year-olds are
      • 5 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 35-64 year-olds.
      • 18 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 35-64 year-
      olds.
      Unvaccinated 65+ year-olds are
      • 7 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds.
      • 12 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-
      olds.
      • 13 times more likely to die of COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds.

      https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/data-tables/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf

      1. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

        Safe and effective.

        https://vaersanalysis.info

        Fuck off, slaver.

  34. Jeremey   4 years ago

    A link to the data used to create that graph would be pretty helpful.

  35. daveca   4 years ago

    The Evening Commie News just ran the hysterical Omicron flight delay story...but linked the delays to WINTER STORMS..

    The number went from 3000 to 1000 and now up to 2500.

    Wal Mart Goods
    NBC, CBS,ABC news

    Made in China

    I call BS!

    FJB

  36. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

    Wow, look at this comment section. It's like Jenny McCarthy and John Birch had a fetal alcohol damaged baby. I wonder if Gillespie and the other Reason folks look at this and think 'holy shit, this is actually what no moderation plus pushing libertarianism gets you, oh well, I need the checks..."

    1. Chumby   4 years ago

      Nick isn’t libertarian. Nor are many of the “voted for Biden” editors at Reason.

      I imagine WaPo and HuffPo moderate wrongspeak in their comments sections good and hard.

      1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

        Chumby: I don't just *beg* the question, I tell it 'me love you long time!'

        1. Chumby   4 years ago

          You do come off as a fifty center. Thanks.

          1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

            Lol, the Birch is strong with this one! Yeah dude, everyone who notices your idiocy is a paid China Communist Party hireling.

            Whatever helps you sleep at night.

            Also, all those women who ignore you are plainly lesbians!

            1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

              Eat shit faggot

              1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

                Are you just repeating what I tell your mom? I know you tend to look through the keyhole kid, but come on.

            2. Chumby   4 years ago

              You got called on garbage and responded with more garbage. Keep telling yourself you’re the best.

              1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

                Lol, what I get 'called on' Chumby-Wumby? Your childish assertions make nothing so.

                1. Chumby   4 years ago

                  Keep telling yourself you are the best. Even when nobody else does.

                  1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

                    Lol, I'm certainly not the best to think your 'call out' is stupid.

                    In fact, I bet you get that all the time, right?

                    1. Chumby   4 years ago

                      For someone that tells themself they are the best, contrary to external data, it isn’t surprising you believe this.

                      I have had the resident pedophile here disagree. The resident schizophrenic. And the jobless drunk. So you have a few allies in that regard.

    2. Eeyore   4 years ago

      Are you that baby?

  37. daveca   4 years ago

    Two things that are TEMPORARY..

    Tattoos
    Covid vaccine!

    Youre better off getting a tattoo! It probably wont kill you.

    1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

      Are you a retarded person? I mean, you couldn't have chosen a worse argument if you tried were you not.

    2. daveca   4 years ago

      I dont want Large fries with that.

      Youre muted. I dont read comments from Trolls
      .F off

      1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

        I mean, a very commonly cited thing about tattoos is *their (relative) permanence!*

        Hey, Nick, this is the conclusion your two premises got ya.

        1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

          Die you nazi fuck.

          1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

            Look, I'd like to say I 'made love' to your Nazi mom last night. I mean, she did keep screaming 'oh, yes, fuck me!' but that's my interpretation. So there was no nazi fuck.

            Your dad was in the corner masturbating with one hand and doing the nazi salute with the other when I came. Is that what you're talking about?

            1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

              Nazis are just another form of leftism. Like communism.
              You know that, I know that.

              1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

                You're confused. Your Nazi mom is no leftist, she hates egalitarianism. She never treats me or your dad the same, she even has different terms for us 'bull' for me and 'cuck' for your dad.

                1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

                  Shithead nazi faggot
                  Will never learn.

                  1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

                    Learn? Your mom seems to think I'm perfect. And your dad agrees when he rushes in to wipe up.

                    1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

                      Tell me, if you keep eating your own shit, won’t you die?

  38. Unicorn Abattoir   4 years ago

    O/T - Did anyone see Kammy's interview yesterday? Apparently our biggest NATSEC threats are global warming and democracy.

    Seriously. She said that. And my God, those phony emotions.

    1. CE   4 years ago

      Psaki predicts prepare for President Pete.

      1. daveca   4 years ago

        ...prepares Applesauce with meds crushed up... prepares to look stupid while speaking... Preparation H for Joe...

    2. Eeyore   4 years ago

      I saw a few quotes, but I couldn't force myself to watch it. Sickening.

  39. daveca   4 years ago

    Dr Fuckey just now on Politburo Broadcasting System...he thinks vax passports should be considered...

    .So he can claim to be right either way.

    What a Pearl Clutching Assweasel.

    1. Unicorn Abattoir   4 years ago

      Lysenkoists gotta Lysenko.

      1. Eeyore   4 years ago

        Except Lysenko is starting to look slightly better at science.

    2. daveca   4 years ago

      third string Sock. So pathetic

  40. Bill Godshall   4 years ago

    "Farewell to a Biden White House messaging strategy that was terrible long before Omicron"

    It's nice to see that Matt Welch is finally (three months later) criticizing the unscientific totalitarian and counterproductive vaccine mandates that have been imposed by Biden and other Democrats.

    1. Chumby   4 years ago

      He has tired of woke cocktail parties.

    2. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

      I actually think you are as ignorant of totalitarianism as you are of science. At least you're fair and balanced!

      1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

        Dumb retard is still a faggot.

        1. daveca   4 years ago

          One Sock Puppet is Many.

          Many Socks are one.

          .Its a Zen thing I guess.

          Theyre overpaid at 50 cents.

          1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

            I like that this one is so Zen about capitalization. You go girl!

        2. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

          Are you still talking about last night with your mom? She's quite manly looking, I will give you that. And of course simple. But that's why I come over now and then, she'll let me do *anything!*

          1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

            Dumb faggot will always be dumb.

            1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

              Look, your mom is manly looking. But it's not faggoty or dumb to give her what she begs for, she is, upon much closer inspection, a female after all.

              1. Unicorn Abattoir   4 years ago

                Amalthea's mom died before it was born.

  41. Gaear Grimsrud   4 years ago

    Ron Bailey: Look Matt, we've been pals for a long time but I really gotta say that last article kind of puts me in an uncomfortable place here. I've spent almost 2 years spreading Covid hysteria because that's what the big guy wants. And here you are all about trashing Biden for going after the unvaccinated.
    Matt Welch: Nah man. We cool. My piece is full on pro vaxx. Shit I even pulled a scary chart out of my ass so the unvaxxed don't get too comfortable. I know Joefriday was loving it.
    Ron Bailey: Look Matt. There's no room on Reason for independent thinking. Yeah ENB can get away with writing some tedious rant about her summer vacation or some shit. But the guy that writes the checks around here has priorities. TDS, abortion until the moment of birth, open borders, butt sex, mostly peaceful riots, legal MJ, pro vaxx, bitcoin and Kenny G. Shit I wrote an an insufferable screed about Dr. Oz a couple weeks ago because that's what the big guy wants. Don't you even read the fucking emails man?
    Matt Welch: Allright man. Sorry if I like, ya know, stepped on any toes. But look here. I got an invite to a DC cocktail party. We'll get faced and talk shit about Sullum.
    Ron Bailey: That's what I'm talking about!

    1. Eeyore   4 years ago

      Lol

  42. Chris Rasmussen   4 years ago

    Matt Welch's considerate spirit infuses this article with optimism for bridging the communication divide. I certainly understand that the unvaccinated feel put upon - first by suffering FAR more deaths, hospitalizations and long-term, possibly permanent, injuries/disabilities, and secondly, to be harassed on top of that over their choice to remain jab-free. (...at least for COVID; if they're Americans and have attended a public school in nearly any state, they've been vaccinated for diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, measles, mumps and rubella, polio and chickenpox.)

    Where my understanding turns to revulsion is the point where these anti-vaxxers line up to ridicule and insult extremely overworked healthcare workers, shout names and obscenities at those who follow safety protocol by wearing masks, cough on us, unmasked, or, as happened to my neighbor, spit on us. This utter lack of civility by a loud swath of the untaxed makes challenging the notion of treating them better than they've earned.

    While the author takes pains to focus on the current variant affecting many vaccinated - in a bid, apparently, to ignore the fact that when it most mattered, the unvaxxed were the willing, gleeful petri dish for the deadly Delta variant - the fact that Omicron appears less threatening does NOT earn bonus points for those being inconsiderate and irresponsible over the past year.

    1. Carl Cameron   4 years ago

      Die of Myocarditis you fuckin' VAXX FAG !

    2. daveca   4 years ago

      "Where my understanding turns to revulsion is the point where these anti-vaxxers line up to ridicule and insult extremely overworked healthcare workers"

      Name one.
      .You cant. Liar

      1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

        What is up with your formatting issues? Or are you trying to do some kind of poetry here?

        If you're retarded just say so. Lot's of retarded people contribute important things.

        1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

          Dumb faggot will never learn.

          1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

            Are you talking about Dave's inability to do basic formatting? Or still your parents?

            1. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

              Stupid progshit never will learn.

    3. Gaear Grimsrud   4 years ago

      "Where my understanding turns to revulsion is the point where these anti-vaxxers line up to ridicule and insult extremely overworked healthcare workers, shout names and obscenities at those who follow safety protocol by wearing masks, cough on us, unmasked, or, as happened to my neighbor, spit on us. This utter lack of civility by a loud swath of the untaxed makes challenging the notion of treating them better than they've earned."
      100 years ago farmers crafted men of straw to frighten the lesser species. There was no great expense involved but a fair amount of labor and a little bit of craftsmanship were required. Your paranoid fevered brain produces straw men free of charge. You are truly blessed.

    4. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

      "This utter lack of civility by a loud swath of the untaxed makes..."

      Freudian slip?

      1. daveca   4 years ago

        My bets on " old acid trip"

    5. Get To Da Chippah   4 years ago

      Where my understanding turns to revulsion is the point where these anti-vaxxers line up to ridicule and insult extremely overworked healthcare workers, shout names and obscenities at those who follow safety protocol by wearing masks, cough on us, unmasked, or, as happened to my neighbor, spit on us. This utter lack of civility by a loud swath of the untaxed makes challenging the notion of treating them better than they've earned.

      And this behavior just came out of nowhere, right? Completely unprovoked! It's not as if world leaders were repeatedly telling people to harass those unwilling to get the vaccine, to shame people for not wearing multiple masks all the time, or were denying people liberties based on masks and vax status, right? Certainly nobody was casting blame on the unvaccinated when high-vax populations had outbreaks, right? It's not as if the government decided that people unwilling to get the Covid 'vaccine' would no longer be permitted to work.

      The brutes just lost their cool for no reason at all!

      1. Hank Ferrous   4 years ago

        'Damned proles! They never treat us like we think we should be treated.'

    6. damikesc   4 years ago

      "Where my understanding turns to revulsion is the point where these anti-vaxxers line up to ridicule and insult extremely overworked healthcare workers"

      ...the unvaxxed aren't FIRING them over the vaccine. Nor did the unvaxxed say that it is OK to ignore ALL of the protocols if you are protesting for "social justice".

    7. Sevo   4 years ago

      "...I certainly understand that the unvaccinated feel put upon..."

      I certainly understand steaming piles of lefty shit trying to boss people around.
      Stuff it up your ass, shit-pile.

  43. Otis R. Needleman   4 years ago

    Joey and his incompetent regime have failed again. Dr. Lysenko is an utter fool. The Chinese Flu debacle has destroyed people's faith, trust, and confidence in government, law enforcement, the judiciary, and the media at all levels. And over these past two years cancer and heart disease have killed over three times as many Americans as the Chinese Flu, yet we don't damage our society trying to stop the spread of these diseases and treating them. The Chinese Flu primarily targets older, sick people. Cancer and heart disease cut a swath through people of all ages. I know what are the far more dangerous diseases, and it sure isn't the Chinese Flu.

    1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

      Needs more CHINESE FLU references.

      1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

        Defend your masters!

        1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

          Masters? No, unlike you're Orange Savior I don't seek business with China at all.

          1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

            Dumb faggot will never learn.

            1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

              The Orange Savior will never learn? I don't think he's really fucking your mom, that's just your fantasies.

              1. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

                Stupid progshit never will learn.

      2. damikesc   4 years ago

        Is it wrong to demand reparations from the country that unleashed the virus, intentionally, on the world?

    2. daveca   4 years ago

      Chinese virus
      Chinese media.
      Pelosi- Chinese driver.

  44. Big Ed's Landing   4 years ago

    I've grown very tired of listening to contrived excuses for not getting vaccinated. The simple facts are that if you are not vaccinated, you are much more likely to get sick enough to be hospitalized, and much more likely to die from covid than if you are vaccinated. No one has shown any significant number of bad outcomes from vaccination, other than a bunch of dubious anecdotes on anti-vax and far-right-wing internet sites. So if you don't want to get vaccinated, have at it. It's your life, and you can get sick and die if you want. I don't care any more.

    1. daveca   4 years ago

      50,000 plus deaths because of the vaccine.
      Shove your false concern up your ass.

      1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

        I asked you up thread to defend this. Care to now, pusswillow?

        1. The Great Negro   4 years ago

          Dumb faggot will never learn.

          1. daveca   4 years ago

            what did Queer Alamode say? I cant see its mental diharreah esque comment.

          2. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

            No defense, eh Sevo? Just angry, childish rage.

            I get it. A child would think I'm hurting your mom. But ask your dad, he seems awful happy about what goes on!

            1. Eeyore   4 years ago

              It might be Sevo. They are both very consistent.

              1. Chumby   4 years ago

                Nope.

                1. Eeyore   4 years ago

                  I still appreciate consistency.

                  1. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

                    Still, dumb faggot never will learn.

              2. Sevo   4 years ago

                "It might be Sevo. They are both very consistent."

                Not me.
                It's some lefty shit who got muted several weeks back. Finally became clear that I refuse to deal with ignoramuses in meat-space, why put up with the assholes here?

      2. caloway   4 years ago

        That’s horseshit spread by people who failed out of high school science.

      3. MollyGodiva   4 years ago

        There have been less then a dozen deaths.

        1. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

          You can change socks but nobody believes you.

        2. Hank Ferrous   4 years ago

          0 from Omicron, clownass. With, that is different.

    2. Sevo   4 years ago

      "I've grown very tired of listening to contrived excuses for not getting vaccinated..."

      I've grown tired of reading lefty shit piles assume they should tell me what to do.
      Look here, asshole: It's none of your business. Stuff it up your ass.

    3. Nardz   4 years ago

      If you really didn't care, you'd shut the fuck up.
      Otherwise, eat a bullet.

  45. daveca   4 years ago

    Drudge headlines

    ".

    FAUCI PUSHES DOMESTIC TRAVEL VAX RULE
    CDC SHORTENS QUARANTINES"

    Moving targets. Changing memes.

    The Left can be IDed by their constantly changing Talking Points.

    Get caught lying? Deflect. Caught deflecting? Attack someone.

    1. JimboJr   4 years ago

      Notice how long the target was COVID cases, and in real time, Jen Psaki tripped over herself talking about cases and switched it up to the new talking point of "hospitalizations and deaths".

      They keep seeing their approval fall lower, and every time it goes down a rung, they mysteriously move the goal posts, change the talking points, change the message. Good little commie soldiers get in line and parrot

      1. Chumby   4 years ago

        They will keep digging in an attempt to get out of the hole they created.

        1. daveca   4 years ago

          joe loooks like hes getting close to some " digging..."

          Rectangular hole about 6 feet deep.

          He has that Wax Museum figure look.

          1. Chumby   4 years ago

            He will be able to properly social distance in perpetuity.

      2. DesigNate   4 years ago

        See Molly an QA for examples.

    2. CE   4 years ago

      Yeah, vaccine passport to fly, even though the vaccine doesn't prevent transmission.

      In a just world, Fauci would already be in prison awaiting trial.

      1. daveca   4 years ago

        Flying causes transmission. So ban air travel.

        FIFY!

        1. Chumby   4 years ago

          Except climate tsar John Kerry’s carbon belching private jet. He should be able to continue to galavant around the globe to attend climate symposiums with others that fly to those events.

  46. daveca   4 years ago

    Whered the Trolls go?

    This got boring

    1. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

      You're still here Jerry's kid!

    2. daveca   4 years ago

      i said troll not ass pirate

  47. Sam M   4 years ago

    “This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated does not jibe with vaccinated workers need protection from unvaccinated workers.”

    The OSHA mandate specifically says it’s designed to protect the unvaccinated, right?

    1. Eeyore   4 years ago

      Protect them from employment.

      1. daveca   4 years ago

        Rimshot!

  48. caloway   4 years ago

    It’s a pandemic of the unvaccinated because at this point nobody else is dying. We need to stop trying to help these clowns and let Darwin do his thing.

    The good news is COVID drops sperm count, so they’re less likely to reproduce.

    1. daveca   4 years ago

      You seem to like sperm.

      Care to talk about it.?

      Talking about your problems can be helpful.

    2. Nardz   4 years ago

      I love the appeal to Darwin by the dumbasses who think evolution is dependence upon a vaccine, created and given to them by others, to protect their immune systems from having to adapt.

    3. DesigNate   4 years ago

      You know, except for the 99.98% of people under the age of 60 that survive it.

  49. Anomaloid   4 years ago

    Overall good article, but I think there are a lot of reasons to dispute the significance of the graph that purportedly shows how much better vaccinated people do when they catch Covid. I do believe outcomes are worse for the unvaccinated, and I'm glad to see that this graph is age adjusted. However, it is not morbidity adjusted. We know that it is a paradoxical fact that the unvaccinated, on average, have much higher levels of baseline risk than vaccinated do. More obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure, poor diet, and sedentary lifestyle. We also know that a significant percentage of people who are being listed as hospitalized as a result of having Covid are actually in the hospital for some other reason and happen to test positive often without any symptomatic presentation of the disease. Finally, there are also some number of people who are being classified in the hospital as unvaccinated with Covid when they've recently had their first injection and are actually having a vaccine reaction rather than a severe case of Covid.

    Even when you factor out all of these things, there is clearly still some statistical group benefit to being vaccinated with regard to hospitalization in this graph. However, as the public health benefit of getting vaccinated for the prevention of transmission, I believe the evidence is mounting that this effect is negligible if at all. So, I am still going to take my personal chances using the oxford risk calculator:

    https://qcovid.org/Calculation

    My personal risk comes out as the following right now:

    Risk of catching and being admitted to hospital with COVID-19
    0.0798% 1 in 1,253

    Risk of catching and dying from COVID-19
    0.0050% 1 in 20,000

    1. daveca   4 years ago

      "some statistical group benefit to being vaccinated with regard to hospitalization"

      EXACTLY !!!!!!!!!!

      ITS PURELY STATISTUICAL!!!!!!

      And thats ALL the Assweasels like Fauci have to go on.

    2. Chumby   4 years ago

      You should be locked up until you can show papers that you have received a series of experimental drugs injected into your body.

      1. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

        What's the risk factor of that?

        1. daveca   4 years ago

          50,000 plus dead from it.

          1. MollyGodiva   4 years ago

            Less then a dozen.

            1. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

              https://vaersanalysis.info

              Choke on shit and die.

            2. Hank Ferrous   4 years ago

              Oh, that's what you are referring to. A dozen. In the world? I think you are wrong, but you will never admit it, because you are biased, and incapable of change.

        2. Chumby   4 years ago

          To ask this is promoting misinformation comrade.

          1. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

            I though Miss Information was at the White House.

            I only buy local.

  50. ValuedDonor370   4 years ago

    Matt - please provide your source for the # hospitalizations of vaxxed v. unvaxxed. Thanks.

    1. Don't look at me!   4 years ago

      Good luck.

  51. Azathoth!!   4 years ago

    "People who are vaccinated have a lower risk of severe disease but are still a relevant part of the pandemic," Kampf wrote. "It is therefore wrong and dangerous to speak of a pandemic of the unvaccinated.

    If you can still get it and spread it then what is wrong is calling ANYONE 'vaccinated'.

    So far, the only people who seem to not be getting it anymore are those who've had it, and avoided vaccination.

    1. daveca   4 years ago

      EXACTLY.

      No protection between (2,3 ) initual doses.

      That fails QUICKLY else boosters wouldnt be needed.

      And now they admit THATS failing.
      .Worse the vaxxed have compromised immune responses bc if the vaccine.

      They never WILL have immunity.

      Like Dr McConnell said, the vaccine IS the weapon.

      1. ADL   4 years ago

        they are admitting, though tacitly, that their injections are garbage. It's obvious now with omicron that the fully injected are testing positive in high numbers and Biden & the rest have had to admit it.

        1. daveca   4 years ago

          TRILLIONS of currency units have been paid by Govts to corporations for vaccines and masks.

          I thought " trickle down" was bad?

  52. JimboJr   4 years ago

    Another win for the woke dems and their deepstate woke CIA:

    Rampant pedophilia and kiddie diddlers let off without charges. Gotta keep those sources and methods protected right?

    Man...its so crazy. It seems like every day yet another person deep within the DNC, dem media, or govt found to be immersed in child sex crimes.

    Im not trying to go all pizzagate and say Hillary is running a pedo ring at the local little Caesars...but I would be less surprised now that there seems to be no shortage of kiddie diddlers among the left. At least now if it did happen I would be like ..."ya, that tracks"

    Weird that multiple of the commenters here that have endorsed pedo crimes under the name of libertarianism are all hardcore leftists as well...must be a coincidence right?

    1. daveca   4 years ago

      No shes not running it yet...But she WILL BE.

      Theyve trotted the Old Horse out to continue her "I lost the election" freak show and signalling that Dominion will elecy her in 24.

      Then she can cover up for these CATHOLIC kiddie didlers.

      Pelisi, Schumer, Biden, Boehner...all Catholic.

      At the same time their filthy lying Church is up tobits frock in child molestation.

  53. MollyGodiva   4 years ago

    I am sick of lying smug anti-vaxxers. We need a national policy that says that anyone who refused the vaccine for non-medial reasons is not allowed to get Covid treatment. They can take their personal responsibility right to their graves.

    1. Chumby   4 years ago

      Now do fatties. Smokers. Bicyclists. And gay men that didn’t double bag.

      1. GreenBeanMarine   4 years ago

        The irony here is that Fauci was the one responsible to irrational public stigma at the start of the AIDS epidemic as well. Kids were expelled from school who tested positive. He should have been fired back then. I guess history is doomed to repeat itself when you dont throw Marxists and dictators out of helicopters when you have the chance.

      2. MT-Man   4 years ago

        Or people who have children with know conditions that they pass on, do we start going down that road and refuse services since they knew what they were doing in conceiving the child?

    2. GreenBeanMarine   4 years ago

      I am sick of these smug people who don't know the difference between an antivaxxer and someone who refuses to submit to experimental mRNA gene therapy. Grow up and learn to think on more than one dimension.

      1. renad   4 years ago

        You are a tiresome, surface brain thinker, Molly. Just because I don't want THIS ridiculously ineffective treatment forced into my body doesn't mean I'm anti vaxx, anti science, anti modern medicine, or whatever anti you have to pigeon hole me into to justify your Statist, small-minded, self-righteous bullshit.

        1. MollyGodiva   4 years ago

          Hmmm. Won't take vax, lies about the vax, and insults others. Yup you are an anti-vaxxer.

        2. daveca   4 years ago

          mollys dont think, they Twitter

    3. JimboJr   4 years ago

      Ya you and your democrat crew have been very vocal in your desire to punish anyone that doesnt perform the religious sacraments and carry their talisman around.

      You can take religion out of a culture, but you certainly cant remove the part of human nature that craves religion...or the part that wants to see non-believers in their religion suffer. And that is exactly where you and the left have arrived. You cant think past your little tribal lizard brains. You are just a new-age, secular, cult of "The Science!". And if the non-believers dont fall in line and praise "The Science!" and st fauci, and father Biden, then they are the enemy and you wish ill upon them.

      You are sad, hateful little people. I highly suggest you find a way to move on with your pathetic lives. Free americans are going to go out and live; the more you try to interfere with them and control them, the closer you get toward a bad outcome for you and your cult.

      1. MollyGodiva   4 years ago

        Quite the opposite. By keeping the anti-vaxxed out of hospitals we are honoring their wishes to be free from medical science.

        1. Hank Ferrous   4 years ago

          No, you are a sad, frightened bigot. Incapable of rational thought. Unwilling to let others live a life free and pursue happiness as they see fit. Your irrational fear of a disease with a very low fatality rate has made you demand others conform to the behaviors that your fears dictate. You, in short, are an insufferable, small-minded, petty tyrant. This is in addition to the fact that you have little grasp of the basics of reasoning, the scientific method, or the data that you misrepresent. The political group to which you belong likes to admonish others to 'do better.' I will not say this, I say, if your entire life is based on lies, ad hominem attacks, on making false assertions, then you have some introspection to do.

          1. MollyGodiva   4 years ago

            If the virus is so benign, then what is the problem having them not go to the hospital that they would not have to go to anyhow?

      2. daveca   4 years ago

        roundhouse kick to the head! Score!.Excellent.

    4. JimboJr   4 years ago

      Looking forward to your support of Roe being overturned. You know, personal responsibility and all that. Being that you lefties are now in the "fuck your autonomy, do what the state says is best" and "you did this to yourself, fuck off" camps. You can take that L hard.

      1. renad   4 years ago

        "You have a responsibility to your fellow humans to get vaccinated!"

        "I have zero responsibility to my fellow humans to prevent an unwanted pregnancy so I don't have to terminate it every time I get a little itch down there for some man-bun."

        1. daveca   4 years ago

          Sarcasm de_ jour!

          Mon Corps, Mon Choix!

    5. AprilJ   4 years ago

      We don’t need covid treatment. We’ve had covid without any treatment and it was gone and 100% within 2 weeks.
      Give me a break!
      No hospital, no test, nothing. It isn’t needed!

    6. daveca   4 years ago

      Thats a lot of hate and playing Moral High ground from Baby Killers.

  54. ILuvPolitics   4 years ago

    IT'S NOT A PANDEMIC OF THE UNVACCINATED! But let us show you this chart at the very bottom of the page that shows you how much more likely the unvaccinated will be hospitalized by it; we need to keep our conscience clear while we still push our politics.

    1. daveca   4 years ago

      yes you are pushing politics... while lying...

  55. GroundTruth   4 years ago

    Sloppy graph; the legend should have the labels in the same order as they appear in the data.

  56. GroundTruth   4 years ago

    Wow, it sure looks like the unvaxed are the ones suffering, about 18 x as much for the week listed. If you assume that there are about 2x as many vaxed as unvaxed, then the total covid hospitalization rate is about 97% unvaxed (i.e. 36/(36+1))).

    Further, the vaxed have pretty close to nothing to worry about if you consider that 4/100,000 per week is about 200/100,000 per year or 1/500 if this thing drags on for another year.

    Bottom line: just like every other societal "crisis" ginned up by the politicians, it's time to get over it and get on with life.

    1. ElvisIsReal   4 years ago

      Wow, it sure looks like the unvaxed are the ones suffering, about 18 x as much for the week listed. If you assume that there are about 2x as many vaxed as unvaxed, then the total covid hospitalization rate is about 97% unvaxed (i.e. 36/(36+1))).
      ---------
      In the real world you're only off by a few orders of magnitude.

      https://kingcounty.gov/depts/health/covid-19/data/vaccination-outcomes.aspx

      1. GroundTruth   4 years ago

        ?

        From your link "not fully vaccinated are 40x more likely to be hospitalized for covid-19".

        For the purposes of general societal policy, 18 x and 40 x are pretty close, aren't they?

    2. daveca   4 years ago

      " looks like" is all you have?

      Yes, typical lying Troll..just political hatred and opinion.

  57. MT-Man   4 years ago

    Joe, Bruce, and Wax why do you come to the boards? You don't value libertarian thought even in the slightest, Joe you read like a person who likes to troll, Wax comes off self inflated young and not wise pompous know it all, and bruce you're some nut job that drinks herbal tea at the local holistic medicine shop and has a proudly faded Obama 2008 sticker on his beat up Subaru.

    Many of the posters I disagree with but I still like to see their thoughts as it pertains to what this site is about and the trolls I just mute. You and a maybe a few others seem really odd to be hanging out here.

    1. daveca   4 years ago

      "faded Obama 2008 sticker on his beat up Subaru."
      .Oh-oh...'dissing' their Subbey!

      Thatll cause them to implode for sure!

      Worthless Starbucks sipping collectivist morons

    2. Sevo   4 years ago

      "Joe, Bruce, and Wax why do you come to the boards? You don't value libertarian thought even in the slightest, Joe you read like a person who likes to troll, Wax comes off self inflated young and not wise pompous know it all, and bruce you're some nut job that drinks herbal tea at the local holistic medicine shop and has a proudly faded Obama 2008 sticker on his beat up Subaru..."

      They, and others, show up to be abused and insulted; nothing else. What sort of a masochistic mentality does it take to do that day after day?
      These are, yes, stupid people, stupid in a truly profound way
      ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O9FFrLpinQ&t=3s ), but more than that, these are deranged people. People who crave verbal abuse and seemingly enjoy it.
      It's possible to guess at some of the personalities and some have doxed themselves: turd is a middle-aged day trader who is not very good at it, with a coke habit, 'daddy issues', an inclination to kiddie porn and a serious problem recognizing reality.
      Hard to imagine the rest of the lot as making any better life-choices or possessing better cognitive abilities; these are not 'well' people, and I'm happy there's two screens and a sever between every one of them and me.
      Ken offered an argument some time back which I found persuasive: 'We don't suffer the company of asshole lefty shit-piles in meat space - why do so on the web?'
      There are now gray boxes on the screen representing the responses of the obviously deranged lefty shits (asshole Joe, Queen asshole, Tony, etc), others so obviously dishonest that even reading the posts is worthless ( sarc, jeff, mike, JFree and that lot)
      As a guilty pleasure, turd and the TDS-addled spastic asshole still get responses, properly copied and pasted since that represents their efforts (and they get flagged, just 'cuz).
      It's much more enjoyable, as predicted, but there remain assholes who are on the verge.

  58. Truthteller1   4 years ago

    At this point it is obvious that the vaccination rate is not going to improve, and it would not matter if it did. Time for the sheep to put on their big boy pants and move on with their pathetic, meaningless lives.

  59. Weigel's Cock Ring   4 years ago

    If you’re looking for a completely honest Covid take instead of the typical half-honest (at best) Park Slope Welchie Boy style take, here’s one: The Big Government Covid 19 Lie by Ben Shapiro.

    https://www.grandforksherald.com/ben-shapiro-the-big-government-covid-19-lie

    1. daveca   4 years ago

      that takes intellect and reading.

      The Room Temperature IQ crowd arent that advanced.

  60. AprilJ   4 years ago

    I’m a nurse. My vaccinated patients have had covid all year with no better outcomes.
    The outcome is based on risk group not vaccination status.
    I’m unvaccinated because I’ve had covid.
    If I’ve said it once, I’ll say it again: I’m not in a risk group and it was inconsequential to me and all of my family. I will not get an experimental injection that minimizes symptoms for a disease I had minimal symptoms for.
    The unvaxxed are not sicker. Many of us have immunity. It’s like other mutating viruses- west get it again but much milder.
    Just like the vaxxed.
    Immunology is SCIENCE. This is sheer politics.

    1. daveca   4 years ago

      THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.

      And for telling it straight.

      Want a 100% guarantee to get the virus?

      . Get the vaccine.

  61. JohnZ   4 years ago

    What we really have is a pandemic of idiocy. .
    Biden is a failed president. His brain is barely functioning enough to keep the body mobile and allow the tongue to speak a few words, however incoherent.
    His threats are meaningless. He is a paper president. A lame duck, not even into the first year of his presidency, he is being either ignored or pushed back against by real leaders like Gov. DeSantis.
    Furthermore as his mind continues to deteriorate he will become a non functioning president and a political prisoner in his own office. However, those inside the administration have other plans. They are neo-Marxists, proto communists and radical left wing activists.

    1. daveca   4 years ago

      He eas on TV yesterday. Bent over. Droolibg and having to suck it in whike speaking.

      Right side of mouth drawn.

      F
      A
      S
      T.

      Stroke.

      And this vegetable is CiC of the US Military?

      1. daveca   4 years ago

        not just pushed by de Santis...

        MANCHIN. A Democrat.

        Perhaps a real one

  62. Ysleta Guy   4 years ago

    The linked study (see below) was submitted December 22, 2021 for publication in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), by a team of medical researchers in Copenhagen, Denmark. It reveals that the Pfizer and Moderna COVID vaccines have NEGATIVE effectiveness after 91 days, which means that the vaccinated are MORE likely to be infected with the Omicron variant than unvaccinated individuals are.

    That is why the CDC keeps telling people to get boosters, so that they are always within 90 days of having been vaccinated.

    (See PDF of study at URL https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.20.21267966v2.full.pdf. Note the chart at the very end on page 6.)

    1. ADL   4 years ago

      This whole thing will blow up in their faces, is blowing up in their faces. What a spectacle. Unfortunately a lot of people are being hurt in the process.

      1. daveca   4 years ago

        wait till the vaxxed start dying en masse.
        .IT WILL HAPPEN.

        Their immune systems are compromised by the vaccine and they are aging.

        It will not end well.

  63. Lzy   4 years ago

    "But the above should also serve a message to us vaccinated Americans: It looks like, on balance, we're going to come out of this omicron infection all right. Maybe instead of directing rage at a subset of our fellow countrymen who are getting seriously ill in disproportionate numbers, we should personally live as though we are in an endemic, and otherwise try to persuade our recalcitrant loved ones that this mild cough and week-plus indoors is a damn sight better than the alternative."
    What a bunch of bullshit. I just created an account to bitch about this shit, right here. I literally just got over this. Mild cough, headache, slight cold like symptoms. 51 years old. Pudgy. Inactive. Not vaccinated. Fuck you.

    1. daveca   4 years ago

      Welcome Comrade.

      Its the Omi- cold virus. Not the Omy- god virus.

  64. Bladernr1001   4 years ago

    What about natural immunity. I was already infected - why should I get vaxed?

    1. daveca   4 years ago

      bc you dont need a booster every 89 days thefore you are a non conformist not shoveling money in pockets of Big Pharma.

      Citizen...

  65. North_Wolfe   4 years ago

    Here’s a sobering thought: perhaps death prevention amongst red-state Trumpophiles is no longer a Biden administration public health goal. Were the new goal to ostracize and alienate (& therefore keep in continuing jeopardy) these deplorables, then Biden’s behavior would comport with behavioral science, and suddenly make sense.

    1. daveca   4 years ago

      FUck off TDs victim

      Your Senile Saviour owns this

  66. JohnZ   4 years ago

    Give it a couple more years and witness a massive die- off of all those who allowed themselves to be poisoned by the vaxx.
    It's not going to be pretty and we all are going to lose family and friends.
    Stay safe. Be prepared.

  67. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

    Well guess what? How about patriotism? How about making sure that you're vaccinated, so you do not spread the disease to anybody else? What about that?"

    When democrats talk about "patriotism", it's like watching a 220lb dude throw on a wig and some makeup and call himself a woman.

  68. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

    How about making sure that you're vaccinated, so you do not spread the disease to anybody else? What about that?"

    That is medical misinformation.

  69. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

    "rivals any number in the free world," Politico's Jack Shafer observed last week, and yet somehow my vaccinated teen and boosted self spent Christmas under quarantine.

    This is me pointing and laughing. Not at Matt's misfortune, but at the entire idea that one could "return to normal" once one got vaccinated.

  70. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

    The message given here to the vaccinated is mixed bordering on schizophrenic. This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated does not jibe with vaccinated workers need protection from unvaccinated workers.

    This is the lie they keep telling us, to our face, and the number of people accepting it and repeating it is stunning.

    If the vaccinated need protecting from the unvaccinated, then it's time to question the vaccines. Full stop. Period. The end. No further debate.

    1. daveca   4 years ago

      Germans accepted lies that Jews were dangerous to Ayran purity. They looked the other way and ignored the smell of mass murder.

      Especially the CHURCH.

  71. Bill Bracey   4 years ago

    Mr. Welch, too bad we had to wade through your article to the end to see the graph that's compares the rate of hospitalization for vaccinated and unvaccinated. It negates everything that went before, including your headline.

  72. LeightonWood   4 years ago

    Ignoring everything except the graph at the end, no more need be said. The unvaccinated will get sick, spread the virus, possibly infect my children and almost certainly my co-workers; all ending in additional unnecessary deaths; mostly theirs.

    So, my suggestion is we just ignore all of them, Let Darwin take over. As they die off there will be fewer of them, and one fine day they will be all gone. Also, go get a booster shot so your "wait period" is safer and you can enjoy it more.

    Now, lets look at the big picture: The reduction of people will free up housing thus dropping the price down to a more affordable basis. The homeless population should also shrink. The Consumer Price Index (CPI) will decrease as will inflation. As demand is reduced, More food will be available for the less fortunate and, for the bonus round, we will burn less fossil fuels and the Climate will thank you.

    What's not to like? Let's do it!

  73. Eeyore   4 years ago

    If they can't sue the manufacturers - hopefully they can sue the government and employers who forced it.

  74. Vernon Depner   4 years ago

    Won't happen. Everyone responsible is immunized from liability by federal laws.

  75. waxliberty   4 years ago

    Lolz.

    You might want to talk to some of the other science contrarians out there. So many have proclaimed having their popcorn ready for when the "lies of the evolutionists" will be finally exposed, for when "global cooling comes and exposes the lies of the physicists", and all the rest. Over a period of decades the popcorn gets quite stale, so the best recommendation is to not keep it handy but wait to hit the store when the global wave of vaccine-caused mass death starts up, if you indeed are fortunate enough to live to see it.

  76. ADL   4 years ago

    I agree. The narrative has been collapsing for months now, yet Welch and reason still hang on to what they can because they have been pushing it just as hard as the establishment. The vaccines suck, they are failing, but more than that they are hurting people. This is so obvious but please Welch, keep it up with muh hospitalizations BS.

    The push to vaccinate everyone, the mandates, are about eliminating the control group. This whole charade needs to be stopped.

  77. Toddler1961   4 years ago

    I am aware that 33,000 Americans died from COVID in November. About 30,000 of that number were unvaccinated. Since June 1 there have been about 163,000 Americans who have died solely because they refused to be vaccinated. Idiotic Americans are dying in droves in their effort to "own the libs". Carry on.

  78. Hank Ferrous   4 years ago

    Once Creepy Uncle Joe is out of office, he can be held responsible and named in a class action suit for those who were injured or lost a family member due to an mRNA vaccine that was mandated. Good for the goose, good for the gander.

  79. Michael Ejercito   4 years ago

    Vigilantism would send a much more powerful message

  80. daveca   4 years ago

    EMPLOYERS.... THATS where this freak circus ended.

    Cant except them....and this is a M.F. of a Class Action monent!

  81. Vernon Depner   4 years ago

    You know who else wanted violence in the streets as an excuse for authoritarian government?

  82. waxliberty   4 years ago

    Our rationalist foes are prone to saying crap like "fascism is the iterative process of building and repeating lies for the purpose of enabling desired violence". Perhaps we should try to avoid modeling that stereotype quite so explicitly.

  83. Vernon Depner   4 years ago

    There are governors already doing this as the primaries approach.

  84. itchy   4 years ago

    "gaslight the American people into believing everyone just magically lost their fucking minds for a couple of years or so."

    Has this not been what has happened? Every single person I know who isn't in the cult, is constantly asking what the hell happened to everyone, they've all gone crazy.

  85. Fats of Fury   4 years ago

    Every Dem is every Blue jurisdiction and most elected Pubs?

  86. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    The Dems in 2020?

  87. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

    Maxine Waters?

  88. BigT   4 years ago

    Antifa!

    BLM!

  89. Chumby   4 years ago

    Nero? Oh. You said violence. Not violins.

  90. FuckGovernment   4 years ago

    Both what you claim (and substantiate via your links) and the chart in the article can be true and it's simple math to see why.

    Assume a population of 1,000,000. Assume 90% vaccinated.

    1,000,000 * 90% * 5 / 100,000 = 45 vaccinated, hospitalized people

    1,000,000 * 10% * 68 / 100,000 = 68 unvaccinated, hospitalized people

    In this contrived example, you can see how the unvaccinated, despite being only 10% of the infect-able population, are still responsible for more than 50% of the infections due to the fact that they are hospitalized at vastly higher rate (68 vs 5 per 100,000 per the graph in this article).

    It takes a population size more than 9 times as big to get to a point where things equalize at 50-50, assuming a 90% vaccination rate.

    You can substitute different population sizes, vaccination rates, and rates of hospitalization to see how those things affect the overall outlook.

  91. raz-0   4 years ago

    Did you read the article you posted? Did you understand any of it?

    From your article:
    "The increase in breakthrough cases last week accounted for about 43% of all new cases in the state, up from 37% the week prior."

    That's infections. 43% of infections are breaktrhough cases.

    Also from your article:
    "The number of total hospitalizations among those protected with vaccines increased by at least 220 over the week, to a cumulative total of 3,186 — remaining at just 0.06% of the state’s vaccinated population."

    That's hospitalizations. That's... not even close to the 3.9% from the graph, although the phrasing makes it unclear if it is cumulative totals or weekly totals. Since you can't tell, it's a sign that the article is shit at best, and possibly trying to be manipulative.

    So going to the mass dashboard as of 12-26 there were 1636 hospitalized individuals, 509 of which were vaccinated. There's 379 in ICU, and 242 people intubated in the ICU. They give no data on their vaccine status. But overall, 31% of hospitalizations are vaccinated individuals with breakthrough cases by definition. It's not even close to 50%.

  92. waxliberty   4 years ago

    The chart above is hospitalizations, the figure you are rounding up here is for cases. Unvaccinated both are getting infected at higher rates and ending up in the hospital at significantly higher rates, as has been happening continually and is not remotely a surprise to anyone who has followed the stats and studies.

    Note ~75% of the state (MA) is vaccinated, so you can triple unvaccinated counts to make more of an apple to apple comparison if you wish.

    bits you appear to have missed in your citation here –

    "Through the week ending Dec. 18, there were 114,318 cumulative cases in vaccinated people — representing just 2.3% of Massachusetts’ fully vaccinated residents, according to the state Department of Public Health... The number of total hospitalizations among those protected with vaccines ... remaining at just 0.06% of the state’s vaccinated population."

    "All three COVID-19 vaccines in use in the U.S have been shown to be highly protective against severe disease resulting in hospitalization or death"

  93. daveca   4 years ago

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ that.

  94. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    Want to know when this is over?
    It’ll be over when the Dems call the vaccine “the Trump vaccine “.

  95. Joe Friday   4 years ago

    Yes, indeed Geiger, Libertarian rage is hilarious and this site is a regular barrel of monkeys.

  96. Gaear Grimsrud   4 years ago

    Dunno. The caps always get me on board.

  97. ElvisIsReal   4 years ago

    Nailed it. Again.

  98. waxliberty   4 years ago

    It was hoped this would work, but in the other direction (get conservatives to be open to vaccination, despite being more resistant to solutions grounded in scientific approach by definition.) It didn't work.

  99. Eeyore   4 years ago

    It has been and always will be the "orange man" vaccine to me.

  100. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

    Drink some water dear, you've been crying for a while now.

  101. Miles Fortis   4 years ago

    So let them 'win' in court.
    Real justice has many venues.

  102. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    You know who else thought they were immunized by the laws they passed?

  103. Miles Fortis   4 years ago

    That immunization only applies to court process.
    That's just one form of 'justice'.

  104. Square = Circle   4 years ago

    So many have proclaimed having their popcorn ready for when the "lies of the evolutionists" will be finally exposed, for when "global cooling comes and exposes the lies of the physicists", and all the rest.

    Don't forget the 'lies' of the geocentrists, the astrologers, theorists of the Luminous aether, and those who believed insanity to be caused by internal fumes.

  105. Square = Circle   4 years ago

    And, by the way, physicists as a group are among the most skeptical of the CAGW narrative. Just below meteorologists, IIRC.

  106. itchy   4 years ago

    The vaccine caused mass death has been occurring for a year....

  107. daveca   4 years ago

    Dang you all are on fire tonite!

    Interesting, aint it...

    The term " capricious" comes to mind.

    And Drooler was just on TV slurring his speech with the right side of his mouth drawn in.

    Harris 2022 coming up.

  108. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

    CNN. Not even once.

  109. waxliberty   4 years ago

    "most people are credulous idiots"

    anti-vax folks being among the rare non-credulous types, of course.

    Winning the extremely competitive internet "irony meter maxed out" award of the day here.

  110. daveca   4 years ago

    "but most people are credulous idiots."

    Esoecially when threatening their lives.

    The Message is ' comply or die' same as Herr Hitler and every other murderous meglomaniac.

  111. Gaear Grimsrud   4 years ago

    Yeah I clicked to see the link. None. Just a picture. I can draw pictures too. Seriously I don't know if Matt's numbers are accurate or not and I don't really care. But if he's going to appeal to the authority of a picture maybe next time reveal the source.

  112. ADL   4 years ago

    This, exactly. Welch still pushing the narrative, pathetic.

  113. Chumby   4 years ago

    Vaccinated should shelter in place.

  114. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    The salt must flow!

  115. waxliberty   4 years ago

    It's a CDC chart. Similar data here, they might have changed the format:
    https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status

  116. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    Eat shit.

  117. Truthfulness   4 years ago

    Yup, telling lies didn't work. Maybe you should stop doing so too.

  118. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    Also die.

  119. American Mongrel   4 years ago

    +

  120. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    Perhaps we should say what we fucking mean.

  121. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    You wouldn’t know irony if it but your dick off.

  122. Dace Highlander   4 years ago

    This post is earlier than my reply above concerning the number of deaths 2021 vs 2020, but the relevance is astounding.

  123. waxliberty   4 years ago

    Admirable spirit. But too many of us have still internalized a lot of the lies told by the victors. As we convert people on vaccines and elections, we will create more space to challenge the foundational lies about the 20th century that hold us back from being fully in the open with our beliefs and our program – the terrible things supposedly done by those who fought for tradition and against the globalist conspiracies. But it is premature now.

  124. JFree   4 years ago

    Here in CO, the number currently hospitalized for covid treatment is 203 vax and 815 unvax. Since we went to crisis standards of care (early Nov), the hospitalized % covid is leaning heavily to ICU and delta wave is only just now receding.

    Assuming no one under-18 is hospitalized (vax or not), the number of 18+ in CO is 4.533 million - 3.808 are vax and 0.725 million are unvax.

    So the currently hospitalized rate for the vax is - 5.3/100k (vs 3.9 in that graph). For the unvax, it's 112.4/100k (vs 67.8 in that graph).

  125. kenvandoren   4 years ago

    I think I like the term "Vaccine failure cases" rather than "breakthrough cases."

    Let us tell the truth.

    Oh, and the graph? Given the dishonesty of CDC, DR. FRAUDCI and the media digital and legacy, there is very little information I trust.

    Note also that the official protocol is STILL " isolate at home, and when you are about to die, come see us at the hospital where we will make an herioc, monumentally expensive, and maybe unsuccessful attempt to save your life."

    NOTHING on early treatment, NOTHING or very damn little on preventative measures outside of masks that SCIENCE has long proven ineffective against respiratory viruses. N95 or better or you may as well not bother.

  126. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    I’m talking to a goddamn computer program.
    Fuck off.

  127. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    Garbage in garbage out.

  128. waxliberty   4 years ago

    "dishonest hacks forcing SCIENCE! on everyone that disagrees with them at the point of a gun"

    uh yeah... that's what I said.

    What do you think creationists thought about evolution being taught in schools? What do you think greenhouse warming deniers think about regulating CO2? What do you think anti-vax activists thought of making vaccine treatments standard (long before you jumped on)?

    There has been a conflict between those pushing SCIENCE! and those resisting for centuries. Perhaps you are just now noticing. Unfortunately the SCIENCE! types had even deeply infiltrated the founders of the U.S. and embedded pro-reason concepts into the very fabric of the nation, which is why there are elements of an uphill battle here.

    "They've already admitted -- begrudgingly -- that myocarditis is a problem"

    Yes. But they're going to use reason on you. Watch – They always do. 'Does the problem remotely compare to the problems associated with covid infection', they'll ask. They'll claim that if it is net better for your health by orders of magnitude, it is still rational to get the vaccine.

    "I am sure there will be other problems."

    And no doubt there will not be any other long-term health problems identified as a result of sars-cov-2 literally attacking organs. In fairness, there is already a very long list there, so maybe you just mean there might not be much room to add anything there.

  129. waxliberty   4 years ago

    "Don't forget the 'lies' of the geocentrists, the astrologers, theorists of the Luminous aether, and those who believed insanity to be caused by internal fumes"

    Uhhh... sure. Yes, geocentrists also claim to be readying popcorn for when the lies of science are exposed. I wasn't trying to provide an exhaustive multi-century list of the phenomenon.

  130. waxliberty   4 years ago

    "And, by the way, physicists as a group are among the most skeptical of the CAGW narrative. Just below meteorologists, IIRC"

    Facepalm. Yes, and virologists and immunologists are among those most skeptical of the vaccine narrative. I read it online.

    I am familiar with this game; you don't want to play it with me.

  131. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

    I think force should be used very, very sparingly. The way you put it is quite reasonable, I'm arguing against this silly conspiratorial 'all the experts are lying' approach. That discredits everything.

  132. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

    So you think, what, 35 year olds with vaccinations who are hospitalized after breaking their arms playing back yard football are 18 times less likely to have COVID than 35 year olds without vaccinations after breaking their arms playing back yard football and this means, what, vaccinations don't work or something? The vaccinated are playing back yard football less?

  133. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

    I've had it, Jenny.

  134. BigT   4 years ago

    Evolution has hundreds of millions of hard data to support it. Even one rabbit bone 700 million years old by C14 data could overturn it; but that will never happen.

    Global warming is occurring, but there is no solid evidence that humans make even a small impact on it. It’s all models and conveniently ‘adjusted’ numbers.

    All Welch asks is that the true story of the value of the vaccines be told AND we respect each person's autonomy and our principles of liberty. Collectivism is evil; and collectivists are evil.

  135. Its_Not_Inevitable   4 years ago

    I smell a raw package-deal. None of these 3 is like the other 2. Especially Creationism/Evolution. But then dishonest people use dishonest arguments.

  136. waxliberty   4 years ago

    Taking horse dewormer or injecting disinfectant though – bold and independent actions of a survivor.

  137. BigT   4 years ago

    Haha! You are an example of the arrogance of ignorance.

  138. Dace Highlander   4 years ago

    Why is it that last year, when there was no vaccine, there were fewer deaths than the last 10 months, when a vaccine has been available? (webmd.com/lung/news/20211122/us-covid-deaths-2021-surpass-2020-total, 385,000 vs 386,000, November 2021)
    Are you going to go all "conspiracy theory" and argue about the measurements? Just asking for a friend.
    Those who are not vaccinated should be dying at a less or equal rate to the deaths last year (Fauci, Delta variant more contagious but less lethal, interviews 4Jul21). But deaths are increasing, even amongst the vaccinated which has to be incorrect because the vaccine is safe and effective, right? How is it possible to have MORE people dying with the vaccine that without it, at a faster rate?

  139. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    You’re an evil piece of shit who
    should be dragged to death.

  140. Junkmailfolder   4 years ago

    If a 35 year old with a broken arm comes into the ER and has their vaccination card that indicates they were fully vaccinated within the last 6 months, does the hospital test them for COVID?

    Is there a nation-wide protocol for that, or would it be decided on a more local level?

  141. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    He meant the lead booster, faggot.

  142. American Mongrel   4 years ago

    ++

  143. dbruce   4 years ago

    We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic.

  144. Steve-O   4 years ago

    Jesus! How can you even engage with this guy?

    My guess is he’s an American, about 23, currently in some kind of useless graduate program, probably abroad, and has just read some shitty book that totally blew his mind, so now he’s out to evangelize. (You can tell the book is shitty because he’s adopted it’s rambling blowhard writing style).

    I’m going to recommend another book before he continues on with his shitposting: “How to Make Our Ideas Clear,” by C.S. Peirce.

  145. waxliberty   4 years ago

    Sorry to hear it.

  146. waxliberty   4 years ago

    "that those hospitalized were hospitalized due to COVID"

    If you are asking honestly, the main way doctors diagnose covid hospitalizations is by direct observation of severe acute respiratory syndrome in the presence of positive detection of sars-cov-2 virus infection.

    But I assume you are invoking conspiracy theories about hospitals faking covid deaths as have circulated since the beginning of the pandemic. Conspiracy theory beliefs, by nature, can't be answered rationally because they are not composed within the structure of reason. If you do not believe in the pandemic, it is understandable to not believe in covid vaccines as well.

  147. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    Go fuck youself facist fuckwit.

  148. BigT   4 years ago

    The vaccines work, but only to minimize the effects, not eliminate them. That’s exactly what Welch said. The side effects are less than for most other vaccines, so far, but no one has said they were nonexistent. Taking the vax has risk, but for most that risk is less than getting Covid. Each person should be left to decide for themselves what risk to take.

  149. J. K. Taylor   4 years ago

    I’m late to this discussion and not due how global warming & popcorn figured into it. This pandemic is becoming endemic; the vaccine will keep most folk from getting very ill and Omicron is not a bad version (all viruses mutate); however I will defend those choose not to get the vaccine (& not even say “I told you so if & when they’re in the ICU). The Democratic “bail & switch” fear mongering has been the problem, but it’s the only “drum they have to beat”. Remember Fauci is 1st of all the federal bureaucrat (who has been politically co-opted; secondly an epidemiologist (who apparently cannot do math); and finally is a physician but NOT a clinician.

  150. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

    Lol, you can't figure out formatting, so excuse me if I doubt your epidemiological chops!

  151. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    Dumb liar is still dumb.
    You don’t win the Nobel prize
    For inventing horse pills.
    Also, go fuck yourself.

  152. itchy   4 years ago

    i used to think it was ignorance, and just being misled that created the cult, but I now know it's intentional malice and repetition of lies that you all know are lies, but you don't care. It's about winning, at all costs, screw truth, screw liberty, you'll spend the rest of your life obediently complying with tyranny, just to tell yourself that those "others" are suffering.

  153. Its_Not_Inevitable   4 years ago

    "Taking horse dewormer or injecting disinfectant though – bold and independent actions of a survivor."

    More dishonesty. Guess you thought you'd just throw this random snark out there to try to discredit someone.

  154. damikesc   4 years ago

    Hard to take your claims of intellect seriously when you post such obvious trollish nonsense.

  155. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

    Faggot? Look, I know your mom looks a lot like a dude, but I'm no faggot for plowing her when I do.

  156. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    Kill yourself

  157. Truthfulness   4 years ago

    Have you actually seen how many hospitals count covid deaths? They get counted regardless of how much the virus plays a factor. Giving into their logic, George Floyd died of covid rather than being choked to death.

    Maybe you should consider the thought that those wild and crazy "conspiracy theories" could actually be true...

  158. waxliberty   4 years ago

    Anti-rationalists do tend to be charmers.

  159. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    Formatting won’t save you
    when the time comes.

  160. DarrenM   4 years ago

    "Facist"? I can only imagine what that might mean.

  161. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

    Thank god for your sake!

  162. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    Kill yourself nazi

  163. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    Kill yourself

  164. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    Dumb faggot will never learn.

  165. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    Kill yourself.

  166. SQRLSY One   4 years ago

    "Anti-rationalists do tend to be charmers."

    Yes, this! Meet Goldilicks Gorillashit, one of THE biggest Anti-rationalists known on these pages! And anti-benevolent to boot!

  167. Truthfulness   4 years ago

    waxliberty, have a read:
    https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/michaelrosen/files/against_rationalism.pdf

    You too, SQRLSY One.

  168. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

    Yes, Sevo, you should go back to that line. It's your apex.

  169. Chumby   4 years ago

    RiP Mike Hihn

  170. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

    I would never punish your mom (and vicariously) dad like that.

  171. Queen Amalthea   4 years ago

    Learn? Your mom has nothing but praise. But if you and her have some advice on how to improve, let's hear it!

  172. Vernon Depner   4 years ago

    And the sad thing is—if this "pandemic" is ever declared "over", I won't be able to go back to seeing the cultists as normal, sane people. Now I know who and what they are just under the surface. I can never again trust or respect any of them.

  173. waxliberty   4 years ago

    “The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists” – Hannah Arendt, “the Origins of Totalitarianism” (1951)

  174. Vernon Depner   4 years ago

    You know who else threw some underlings under the bus and mostly escaped to live happily ever after?

  175. waxliberty   4 years ago

    "Global warming is occurring, but there is no solid evidence that humans make even a small impact on it"

    But objectively speaking, there is. We don't have to go into it here, but to start, it is on paper what must happen according to known physics and thermodynamics. Continual observations and tests over decades have repeatedly confirmed – gaps in outgoing longwave exactly confirm pre-existing predictions of radiative transfer models, simultaneous stratospheric cooling with tropospheric warming as a signature of greenhouse warming, measured warming of the oceans to 2,000 meters of depth tightly inline with predictions, etc.

    "all models and conveniently ‘adjusted’ numbers"

    Again – *this* is what it comes down to, the actual debate. Conspiracy theories that claim we cannot trust measurements, that doctors are faking the deaths in hospitals, that PCR tests don't work, that NASA is faking the satellite instruments etc. By their nature, conspiracy theories cannot be addressed by rational argument because they are not composed of rational argument. They are tribal battle calls that appeal to emotion to achieve political ends.

  176. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    You just named yourself.

  177. Dace Highlander   4 years ago

    The climatologists working for NOAA have admitted that they changed temperature readings both for baseline and for data analysis. Not speculated about it, admitted it. You may claim that the "conspiracy theories" claim to not trust the measurements, but it is literally because scientists have admitted to falsifying the data.

  178. Steve-O   4 years ago

    Do you understand the term “thermodynamics?”

  179. waxliberty   4 years ago

    Prove it.

    As if claiming to speak for physicists who reject physics as taught in textbooks is not such an example.

  180. waxliberty   4 years ago

    Prove it.

    The ratio of conspiracy-type claims to supporting citation is trending high even by the elevated standards of this genre...

  181. Dace Highlander   4 years ago

    I would refer you to my above post citing the fact that there have been more deaths so far this year, when we have a vaccine, than last year when we did not.

  182. daveca   4 years ago

    "The side effects are less than for most other vaccines, so far"

    Lie big or go home?

    THIS ONES KILLED MORE THAN 50,000 PEOPLE, ASSMUNCH.

  183. the phucko   4 years ago

    Explain how they ACTUALLY work? As "it makes the virus less of a problem"..., is a belief of the moronic fools. How EXACTLY does one qualify that "reasoning"? Can u put on your headstone; "It could've been worse". U r but another counted on fool. Keep hanging your hat on complete nonsense. And PLEASE continue to get shot up. Harvest time has arrived. As the stupid truly need to go.
    The Phucko Knows

  184. Chumby   4 years ago

    That isn’t Sevo.

  185. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

    One and the same for orchestra parents.

  186. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    Dr mengele?

  187. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

    Hillary Clinton?

  188. SQRLSY One   4 years ago

    Great Niggardly-lacking-benevolence... drinking Niggardly Kool-Aid in a spiraling vortex of darkness, cannot or will not see the Light… It’s a VERY sad song! Kinda like this…
    He’s a real Kool-Aid Man,
    Sitting in his Kool-Aid Land,
    Playing with his Kool-Aid Gland,
    His Hero is Jimmy Jones,
    https://www.britannica.com/biography/Jim-Jones
    Loves death and the dying moans,
    Then he likes to munch their bones!
    Has no thoughts that help the people,
    He wants to turn them all to sheeple!
    On the sheeple, his Master would feast,
    Master? A disaster! Just the nastiest Beast!
    Kool-Aid man, please listen,
    You don’t know, what you’re missin’,
    Kool-Aid man, better thoughts are at hand,
    The Beast, to LEAVE, you must COMMAND!

    A helpful book is to be found here: M. Scott Peck, Glimpses of the Devil
    https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1439167265/reasonmagazinea-20/
    Hey Great Niggardly …
    If EVERYONE who makes you look bad, by being smarter and better-looking than you, killed themselves, per your wishes, then there would be NO ONE left!
    Who would feed you? Who’s tits would you suck at, to make a living? WHO would change your perpetually-smelly DIAPERS?!!?
    You’d better come up with a better plan, Stan!

  189. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    You’ll get what you deserve.

  190. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    I can’t wait till you assholes get what you deserve.

  191. waxliberty   4 years ago

    "Why is it that last year, when there was no vaccine, there were fewer deaths than the last 10 months, when a vaccine has been available?"

    Look at the curve – deaths are heavily skewed to the first few months of 2021. Deaths in the second half have been dominated by the unvaccinated. What specifically in the data do you think is inconsistent?

    "Are you going to go all "conspiracy theory" and argue about the measurements? "

    No.

    "Those who are not vaccinated should be dying at a less or equal rate to the deaths last year (Fauci, Delta variant more contagious but less lethal""

    "less lethal" here means on an individual basis; "more contagious" means more individuals. So *from this* alone you cannot conclude "less or equal". But see above.

    "deaths are increasing"

    In the U.S. daily deaths are running about half what they were in last winter's peak. But yes, they are trending up with omicron wave.

    "even amongst the vaccinated"

    Citation needed; relative to when? You'd probably want to slice data by booster-or-not given that appears significant. If this is currently true you'd assume it means omicron's speed and mutations are outpacing any reduction in lethality.

    Thanks for taking the time to make an argument grounded in numbers and reasoning. On 'reason' no less!

  192. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    Kill yourself.

  193. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    Why do you persist in your retardation?

  194. Its_Not_Inevitable   4 years ago

    So this looks like as good a place as any to put this. Relates to the governmental push of a "Global Warming Crisis" and the current COVID panic and vaccines. From Eisenhower's Farewell Address. We were warned by a man who saw it happening "from the inside"...

    "Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.
    In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.
    Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been over shadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.
    The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present and is gravely to be regarded.
    Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite."

  195. waxliberty   4 years ago

    "None of these 3 is like the other 2"

    Even anti-vaccine arguments are not comparable to arguments claiming we will soon have people seeking redress for mass casualties of... vaccines, really?

    "dishonest people use dishonest arguments"

    They all have in common embracing claims that are contradicted by independently repeated measurements / empirical findings. You are welcome to disagree, but there is absolutely nothing dishonest about noting the common patterns.

    If it turns out there is a pattern, it might have something to do with:

    "The most objectionable feature of the conservative attitude is its propensity to reject well-substantiated new knowledge because it dislikes some of the consequences which seem to follow from it" – free market economist and libertarian Friedrich Hayek, 1960

  196. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    Shhh don’t tell him that!

  197. The Great Negro   4 years ago

    Dumb nazi is still a faggot.

  198. waxliberty   4 years ago

    I'm afraid the NOAA round of "data falsification" claims was one of the emptier circuses. I happen to have dug into it (something of a long running fascination with conspiracy theories...)

    Yes, NOAA "admitted" to correcting sea surface data for biases, as is routinely done in physical science. (Are astronomers "falsifying" data when they scrub local human noise out of radio telescope signals?)

    NOAA forecasted the problem 8 years before the supposed "falsification" – buoys sit differently in the water and take very slightly cooler readings than ships measuring water brought up. As they added lots of buoys and blended the measurements, it introduced a small bias over time. The correction has vanishingly little affect on anything.

    If you are interested happy to go into the details, though I understand eyes might glaze over.

  199. waxliberty   4 years ago

    Lol. Yep. Do you?

    I am hoping for something nerdy and pedantic here.

  200. waxliberty   4 years ago

    We should absolutely be alert. But simply claiming a scientific-technological elite are perpetrating a global conspiracy does not prove it so.

    We should also question the biases of people who only selectively question scientific inquiry or findings when those findings happen to contradict what they want to be true.

  201. waxliberty   4 years ago

    "repetition of lies that you all know are lies"

    The above was obviously answering Geiger in kind.

    It was widely reported that purchases of the horse packaging of ivermectin spiked along with calls to poison control centers (while small numbers of the latter.) CDC also shared many reports of people ingesting bleach.

    The consequences may have been mild in these cases, but that doesn't mean large scale embrace and weaponization of falsehoods is a positive thing.

    "screw truth"

    Are you kidding – what do you think this is about?

    Do you think ivermectin is a miracle cure, that was suppressed because biotech capitalists make more money on vaccines and globalists need to perpetuate the covid hoax to advance the plandemic power grab? Those are the mass-distributed conspiracy theories, right?

    Why do you see attacking these conspiracy theories as attacking you, if in fact truth is something you care about. Is it?

  202. waxliberty   4 years ago

    Can't imagine why I would snark there.

    Would you like to point out the "dishonesty" though? Are you claiming people did not purchase and consume the horse-dosed ivermectin?

  203. Chumby   4 years ago

    They have to live with themselves 24/7. Already a harsh punishment.

  204. R Mac   4 years ago

    Maybe try a D&D message board then db.

  205. Steve-O   4 years ago

    I’ll take your word for it. It’s just that the sentence, “It’s on paper what must happen according to known physics and thermodynamics,” doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence. In fact, it sounds like a bunch of blowhard bullshit, especially when coupled with your assertion that you can’t be bothered to offer an explanation of which “physics” and “thermodynamics” are “known,” and how we get from there to anthropogenic global heating.

  206. Chumby   4 years ago

    Recall seeing an Albertan doctor only finding it at a vet pharmacy. He administered to his patients at the proper dose for their body weight. Two of the three met discharge criteria after 24 hours. He also provided inhalers (steroids?) and vitamins.

    If you drink 20 liters of water over a short time period, that could be deadly. But that doesn’t provide evidence that water is somehow bad at recommended hydration levels.

  207. Truthfulness   4 years ago

    By all means, provide the sources for your claims.

    In any case, waxliberty needs Jesus.

  208. Nardz   4 years ago

    Like so many leftists, it uses its name to try to fool people as to its motivations.

  209. Nardz   4 years ago

    No, just a lead vaccine

  210. waxliberty   4 years ago

    Those making claims are the ones who should support them.

    That said I happen to know the original tabloid article that went viral, web search NOAA Rose Bates Daily Mail.

    Discussion of the data issues.
    https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-mail-sundays-astonishing-evidence-global-temperature-rise

    Good example of the contrast in how contested claims are evaluated – rationalists seek to find as many ways as possible to independently and empirically test, while conspiracy proponents emphasize personalities and emotions ("do you trust these academics???")

    "waxliberty needs Jesus"

    Which specific passage was it where Jesus encourages lying for political power, again?

    "You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things"
    Romans 2:1

  211. renad   4 years ago

    Waxliberty is, unfortunately, one of those yippie-skippy, ultimately tiresome people you hope you never get stuck in conversation with at a dinner party. "I have SOURCES and am happy to share 'em with you if you'd like!"

    Ugh.

  212. waxliberty   4 years ago

    "He administered to his patients at the proper dose "

    Non sequitur... the point is that people did believe it to be a suppressed wonder treatment, did consume horse dosage, and it did not turn out to be the celebrated example it was claimed to be – i.e. why people should reject doctors and scientists and look instead to political and internet personalities for medical guidance. It was just another counter-example; the victims were collateral damage of a campaign to urge people to distrust scientists and doctors for perceived political advantage.

    "If you drink 20 liters of water over a short time period, that could be deadly. But that doesn’t provide evidence that water is somehow bad at recommended hydration levels"

    It also doesn't prove water cures covid. If ivermectin has the efficacy claimed in the viral campaign that effect would have been confirmed in studies. It was not.

    It was however a typical tale of the charm and tactics of raging anti-rationalists:

    How my ivermectin research led to Twitter death threats
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/13/how-my-ivermectin-research-led-to-twitter-death-threats

    Death threats being a regular fixture of this particular orientation... addicted to the conspiracies and urban legends of outrage media promising justification for violence. More April 19ths in the cooking.

  213. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

    Lying progshit is breathing. Must be lying.

  214. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

    Deflect. Misdirect. Obfuscate.

    Dishonest fuckwit.

  215. Junkmailfolder   4 years ago

    No, it was probably people grasping for anything that seemed to have the potential to work. And the data out of certain areas (areas that maybe would have benefited from people who were sick with COVID also taking anti-parasitics) showed that it might help.

    There were also probably people who were sticking it to the people pushing the vaccine as a panacea that would end the pandemic as those same people had lied to them multiple times before.

    Or you could, you know, just continue lumping everyone who disagrees with you into the "science denier" category. You do whatever makes you feel good.

  216. Chumby   4 years ago

    That was a doctor that administered the treatment, not a fifty center like yourself.

    The point of your post is shit-posting. You got called on it and continued.

  217. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

    CNN hasn't mentioned thay part yet, so it's not real.

  218. waxliberty   4 years ago

    I know it's paintfully unfashionable, but as previously mentioned I value truth. So yeah I actually do the boring and unpopular homework. As mentioned elsewhere there are multiple lines of evidence why this isn't the explanation for covid counts (excess death stats etc.) And you still don't have a believable explanation why hospital workers all over the world are conspiring to falsify counts in this way.

    Support your claim with specifics. The way reasoning works is that the burden of proof is on you to support your theory of what is happening. Conspiracy theories do not default to true because we like them, with skeptics automatically assigned burden of proof to disprove them.

    Sorry. Yes, I know. Skeptics are popular at parties.

  219. SQRLSY One   4 years ago

    Why do you persist in selling your Kool-Aid and suicide, Servant of the Evil One?

  220. SQRLSY One   4 years ago

    OK, then, this: Is there a "rational" reason to prefer pleasure over pain, the long term over short-term gratification, creation over destruction, even life over death? I prefer ALL of these things, but they are "axioms" or "fundamental assumptions", NOT derived from "reason"! Once you pick your axioms, THEN you apply reason! W/O reason, you get no "traction"!

    Also, this: Is your irrationalism benevolent or malevolent? I will pick the irrationalism of Jesus over that of Der TrumpfenFuhrer any day and every day!

    THIS, in more detail, is why! http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Jesus_Validated/ and http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Do_Gooders_Bad/

  221. daveca   4 years ago

    ( golf clap )

  222. daveca   4 years ago

    "contrived example, you can see how the unvaccinated, despite being only 10% of the infect-able population, are still responsible for more than 50% of the infections"

    Youte telling TWO LIES.

    1. Its not happening which is why liars like you are hiding behind made up statistics.

    2. Youre lying about " infected." Just catching the virus DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN INFECTION.

    Infection is a bodies internal response.

    Lying Gaslighting Troll

  223. Chumby   4 years ago

    Such as face mask science, employee vaccine mandates and vaccine requirements for government school students.

  224. box_man   4 years ago

    Have at it.

    Raw Data
    https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#covidnet-hospitalizations-vaccination

    Survey Methodology
    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covid-net/purpose-methods.html

  225. waxliberty   4 years ago

    Sad little repetitive mantra. "The facts that contradict what I want to believe will go away. It's only CNN. I'll open my eyes and CNN will be gone."

  226. waxliberty   4 years ago

    Brief break from shitposting?

  227. waxliberty   4 years ago

    Are you not the one making the outlandish claim that covid deaths did not really happen and are merely falsified hospital data from all over the world, without bothering to offer any evidence how this outlandish claim could be true?

    "Do not lie."
    Leviticus 19:11

  228. DesigNate   4 years ago

    It’s all you deserve.

  229. DesigNate   4 years ago

    “ but as previously mentioned I value truth.”

    Yeah, about as much as shrike does.

  230. Sevo   4 years ago

    "I know it's paintfully unfashionable,.."

    I know you're an insufferable pile of lefty shit.
    Fuck off and die

  231. Sevo   4 years ago

    Flags, asshole. Fuck off and die.

  232. Sevo   4 years ago

    "Stuff your head up your ass"
    Sevo

  233. Goateggs   4 years ago

    It's very difficult to determine that with US data, but as of a week ago, in the UK, 2/3 of new hospital admissions with a positive COVID test were people who were initially presented for other reasons and only later tested positive. Given the wildly inappropriate levels of amplification being run on PCR tests, most of them probably did not have clinically meaningful disease. It's also entirely possible that they were exposed to COVID *in* the hospital. Nosocomial infection has always been a huge problem in inpatient settings.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10339555/Two-thirds-new-Covid-hospital-patients-England-tested-positive-admitted.html?s=08

  234. Tyler Durden   4 years ago

    Exactly. That's precisely what I've been saying for the last 18 months; that it's like we were all visited by aliens one night, and all but 3 percent woke up (more) stupid and this is what the true zombie apocalypse looks like. And what you said, about now having seen their true colors and never being able to look at them the same way ever again. Try as they might to just ignore what happened and continue as if much were the case...I will NEVER forget what they did and said. Especially with the ranting over me not getting the shot or wearing a mask and being the problem. I work in a 'certain' field...I prefer anonymity here, but assume away as to which field, where I remained unvaxxed (only until recently in December, due to you know who blowharding about you know what) and unmasked, and ALSO unaffected and completely healthy since the inception of this in late 2019. The level of willful ignorance is astounding, even today still I see a zombie-tard wearing a mask bedazzled with sequins ????...as if ANY part of that mask is medically doing a damn thing. And of course this is walking into a restaurant. So this tells me it's all about fashion, appearance and ego (if not, if this creature is truly concerned about catching something, keep in mind it needs to remove the mask to shovel the food in and effectiveness is game over at that point, then it should keep it's fat ass in the cave and never leave. THIS is the true pandemic - stupidity. I'm not saying the Darwin-virus is the cure, but I know I'm not afraid ????‍♂️. The inconsistencies and the holier-than-thou actions based on opinion and not facts, are beyond shameful in people and how they've handled themselves. And what about the plethora of people 'sick' but yet have the shot? *gasp* but wait, how can that be??? Riiiiiggghhht. Makes one wonder if this isn't something more, something in the realm of biblical. Just saying.. mother Terre has had enough. Again though, I'm not afraid. I'll just continue eating popcorn in my front row seat.

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