Coronavirus

New York Firing Health Care Workers as COVID-19 Heads Northeast

The vaccine mandate on health care workers, ahead of the broader mandate on the rest of us, is putting America in uncharted territory.

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For most of spring 2020, rattled New Yorkers trudged out onto their stoops and balconies every night at 7 p.m. sharp to bang their pots and pans and holler appreciation for the first responders—cops, nurses, doctors, EMTs, firefighters—who, unlike them, did not really have the choice to stay home from work while the deadly coronavirus ripped through the five boroughs.

As of Tuesday, those same New Yorkers, through their representative government, are telling those same essential workers to go look for a new job, unless they have been vaccinated for COVID-19 or have filed for a religious exception from the statewide mandate.

"The only way we can move past this pandemic is to ensure that everyone eligible is vaccinated, and that includes those who are taking care of our vulnerable family members and loved ones," Gov. Kathy Hochul said in a statement on Monday, while signing an executive order easing various licensing requirements in order to expand the pool of potential health care workers. The governor is keeping open the option of calling on the National Guard to cover for expected hospital staffing shortages.

New York's vaccine mandate, which covers 600,000 health care workers, is one of scores across the country affecting nurses, doctors, teachers, and cops. North Carolina–based hospital company Novant Health announced Monday that it had fired 175 noncompliant workers. According to The Washington Post, "More than 150 health-care workers who did not comply with a vaccine mandate at Houston Methodist—one of the first health systems to require the coronavirus shots—were fired or resigned in June after a federal judge upheld the policy. ChristianaCare, a Delaware health system, announced this week that 150 employees were fired for not adhering to its vaccine mandate."

The requirements are exacerbating existing staff shortages in the health care sector 19 months into the pandemic. But are they increasing vaccinations? Yes appears to be the answer.

New York announced its mandate August 16; between then and late Monday, vaccinations of at least one shot among staff at nursing homes increased from 70 percent to 92 percent, at adult care facilities from 76 percent to 89 percent.  The hospital-worker vaccination rate rose from 77 percent in mid-August to 84 percent as of September 22 (there has been widespread reporting of a rush of health-sector vaccinations in the final hours before the deadline).

According to a soon-to-be-published nationwide poll of 1,036 Americans that was funded by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, 16 percent of employed respondents said they would quit or start looking for new work if required by their employer to get a vaccine. "Among those who said they were 'vaccine hesitant'—almost a quarter of respondents—we found that 48% would quit or look for another job," pollsters Jack J. Barry, Ann Christiano, and Annie Neimand wrote. "Other polls have shown similar results. A Kaiser Family Foundation survey put the share of workers who would quit at 50%."

Yet, those same authors conclude, "the actual number who do resign rather than get the vaccine is much smaller than the survey data suggest."

This week will be the test of those theories, as Connecticut's statewide health care vax mandate took effect Monday (for public hospitals), California's kicks in Thursday, and Rhode Island's on Friday.

As the Associated Press notes, in a development that mirrors COVID-related educational restrictions, "States that have set such requirements tend to have high vaccination rates already. The highest rates are concentrated in the Northeast, the lowest ones in the South and Midwest." This raises in particular some uncomfortable issues of class, as six-figure big-city professionals cheer on or at least shrug at the firing of working-class nurses, EMTs, and support staff. Spring 2020, this ain't.

Soon, however, the impact will be spread out all over the country, after the rollout of President Joe Biden's mandates on private employers with more than 100 workers, plus all 17 million employees at health care providers that receive Medicare and Medicaid, and every federal employee (including military). The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that 77 percent of Americans age 18 and old have received at least one shot, with 67 percent being fully vaccinated. The U.S. one-shot vaccination rate of 64 percent overall ranks just 45th in the world.

The most compelling arguments for government to mandate injections into people's bodies is when those people A) work for the government, and/or B) work in close proximity to at-risk populations, which disproportionately means the elderly, the sick, the immunocompromised, and the unvaccinated (particularly those falling in the prior categories). The state is on far shakier ground—legally, morally, and medically—when mandating jabs for low-risk populations outside its employ.

For an explanation of why someone might not want to take the vaccine, go no further than professional basketball player Jonathan Isaac of the Orlando Magic:

The National Basketball Association does not have a league vaccine mandate on its players, but government mandates in New York City and San Francisco mean that three teams (the New York Knicks, the Brooklyn Nets, and the Golden State Warriors) will be subject to the requirement. Brooklyn star point guard Kyrie Irving and Golden State forward Andrew Wiggins have been talking about missing all of their home games rather than acceding to the mandate.

Far more consequentially, public school districts are beginning to adopt and enforce vaccine mandates on all eligible students. Culver City, California, started the trend, followed by the Los Angeles Unified School District, the country's second-largest. San Diego Unified was set to vote on a mandate Tuesday night.

In a sign of blue-state policies to come, Education Secretary Miguel Cardona endorsed student vaccines last week. "I wholeheartedly support it," Cardona said during a visit to Detroit. "It's the best tool that we have to safely reopen schools and keep them open. We don't want to have the yo-yo effect that many districts had last year, and we can prevent that by getting vaccinated."

Yet even unvaccinated kids remain overwhelmingly less likely to contract, spread, or suffer from COVID-19. Fears of the new school year generating a new surge of cases have proven unfounded so far. And the situation that Cardona is trying desperately to avoid—remote learning, which has proven educationally calamitous—will likely increase in communities where parents are skeptical about the cost/benefit ratio of vaccinating their kids.

In fact, the LAUSD—where in addition to the vaccination mandate, all students and staff are tested weekly regardless of vax status—new enrollment figures for 2021-22 just came out, and they were three times worse than the district expected: a drop of 6 percent in just one year, after already falling 4 percent the year before that. Forcing vaccines on the unwilling has more consequences than merely increasing vaccination.

So we're in uncharted territory here. If even 3 percent of any given population decides not to comply with vax mandates even under threat of government reprisal, that could have huge impacts on the public education system, the economy, and on hospital capacity.

It's on that latter point in particular that policy makers should be looking at closely over the coming weeks, as they fire nurses and mobilize the National Guard. After the brutal COVID-19 wave in the South this summer, the 10 states with the biggest percentage increase in hospitalizations over the past two weeks, led by highly-vaccinated Vermont and Maine, are all in the north.

Vaccine mandates may well be the last illiberal push that results in the U.S. reaching some mythical pandemic off-ramp. But they may also create health care shortages in the Northeast right as the virus once again rears its seasonal and regional head.

NEXT: Cops Get Qualified Immunity After Jailing Florida Man for 'I Eat Ass' Bumper Sticker

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  1. Surely this will save New York from Florida-levels of Plague-induced chaos and destruction.

    1. No it won’t. And don’t call me Shirley.

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    2. I am glad these healthcare employers are actually following through and firing these morons. If you refuse to get vaccinated (barring the small minority that can’t because of pre-existing health issues), you have no business working in the healthcare field. There is nothing to discuss.

      1. You are the moron.

        The mandate doesn’t recognize allergies to components of the vaccines or pre-existing immunity.

        The mandates don’t recognize that people taking medicine for HIV, certain cancers, psoriasis, or intestinal problems will have no immunity, even with multiple vaccinations.

        The mandates don’t require higher vaccine doses for the obese or elderly, who have less immunity than healthy young people.

        The mandates are one-size-fits-all.

        That’s not public health. That’s tyranny.

          1. So hows that different than having the choice to be exposed to covid and gaining natural immunity like they did rather than vaccinated?

            1. Natural immunity doesn’t always happen before it can mutate into a more virulent (Delta) virus. Trump wasted many months that could been used to vaccinate the number needed for immunity which also would have made him a hero and would have been easily reelected.

              1. With… the vaccines that weren’t ready for distribution until Biden had been sworn in?

                I mean, I’ve seen some amazing TDS about stuff before, but bitching that Trump *didn’t have a time machine* might just top everything.

                1. The first Covid-19 vaccination in the United States has taken place Dec 14 , 2020 after 300,000 deaths. The inauguration of Joe Biden as the 46th president of the United States took place on January 20, 2021.

                  1. Vaccine rollout is state responsibility, and states like CA predictably bungled it and even implemented silly equity measures. Vaccination rates went up after supply became less of an issue.

                    In CA my age bracket wasn’t (for all intents and purposes) eligible for vaccines early in the year. I’d have to make appointments and put on waiting list.

                  2. Dec 14 to Jan 20 is “many months”?

                    But fine, mea culpa. The vaccine was approved for use during Trump’s administration. By five weeks. Still requires a time machine for him to have distributed them over “many months”.

                    1. I was referring to the time Trump wasted with his “It will go away when it warms up”, 22 January: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.” 2 February: “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China” 24 February: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA… Stock Market starting to look very good to me! 25 February: “CDC & my administration are doing a GREAT job of handling Coronavirus” and “I think that’s a problem that’s going to go away. They have studied it. They know very much. In fact, we’re very close to a vaccine.” 26 February: “We’re going very substantially down, not up” and “The 15 [cases] within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero”, etc. Taiwan, Pop. almost 24 million, had their first fatality on the same same as we did. They did testing and masks and contact tracing and ended up with 200 deaths and we had 500,000 dead.

      2. I guess heroism is exceptionally brief.

      3. Chipper Morning Wood————————————————————————–
        May.26.2021 at 6:29 pm
        Flag Comment Mute User
        Libertarians have more in common with Marxism than with modern conservatism. It’s sad that it’s come to that, but here we are.

      4. Chipper: Hey, are there any beds for me? I’m dying of a heart attack.

        Hospital: Yes, we do have a bed, but we fired 200 nurses last week who wouldn’t get vaccinated, so we can’t admit you. Sorry, you’ll have to die out here on the street.

        Chipper: Okay, that sounds reasonable.

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  2. You didn’t report on NY governor’s statement about God and Jesus and the vaccine. I mean a literal atheist pile of leftist garbage invokes some strange religious language as if the people who don’t want it are going to listen to that crap. That is Kirkland, buttplug, and jeffsarcredneck level of stupidity.

    1. It’s what the aristocrats think of the peasants they lord over.

      1. At least the romans knew the religion of their people.

    2. I haven’t seen said statements, can you provide a link?

        1. She’s next up to volunteer for hell.

      1. National review has a good article on these quotes right now.

    3. As was pointed out the whole separation of church and state people didn’t seem to mind this. At all.

  3. “The only way we can move past this pandemic is to ensure that everyone eligible is vaccinated, and that includes those who are taking care of our vulnerable family members and loved ones,” Gov. Kathy Hochul said in a statement on Monday, while

    ignoring the science about natural immunity.

    1. “Natural immunity” is a conspiracy theory created by Alex Jones!

        1. Studies show natural immunity from COVID-19 can be significant so some ask why vaccination is necessary.

          Your body naturally produces antibodies to COVID-19 during infection.

          Deputy state health officer, Dr. Karen Landers said the CDC reports the natural immunity can last about 90 days; other studies report several months.

          ADVERTISEMENT

          However, Dr. Landers said the amount of natural immunity differs by the person.

          “Asymptomatic or mild cases really don’t have very good immunity against Covid. A person who has had more severe disease have probably better immunity, but again who would want to have severe disease. No one.
          Everyone should get vaccinated even if you’ve had COVID-19 because the vaccine induced immunity is more predictable. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/diseases/forgot-14-diseases.html

          1. There are no documented cases of anyone getting a serious case of Covid twice in the two years it’s been spreading. Variants and all.

            It’s obvious immunity lasts a long time.

    2. It’s easy to prove you’ve had a vaccine. How does one prove they had COVID 19 and also acquired a sufficiently strong immune response that is as effective as a vaccine?

      Antibody tests don’t measure immunity, merely exposure.

      While the science says people who get a solid case of COVID with symptoms acquire a strong immune response, it’s not clear that asymptomatic people do. So unless you have a way for people to show that they don’t need the vaccine, I don’t see how this ignores the science.

      1. So much text. So little information

      2. NOBODY CAN THINK FOR THEMSELVES!

      3. “Antibody tests don’t measure immunity”

        I am pretty sure antibody titres are the only metric being used to measure immunity both from infection and vaccination. There are some studies using b and t cell activation but those assays are far too cumbersome for the general pop.

        1. However, there are plenty of studies that were based on the blood work required to look at B & T cell activation. To date, all of those show natural immunity as being at least as good as vaxxed only. That is the worst result natural immunity has gotten…at least a good but likely better. The theory is pretty solid for natural immunity being better since is codes for the entire genome not just the spike. There is some randomness for NI but that appears to be a feature.

      4. Fuck off you totalitarian cunt. You wouldn’t know science if it shat in your mouth.

      5. Other nations accept previous exposure and recovery as acceptable proof for their pass-sanitaire so why shouldn’t we?

        1. American exceptionalism?

          1. Profit motive.

            Same reason vaccines from other countries don’t count.

            They don’t really care about efficacy here. It’s about obedience.

            1. Who wants Russian or Chinese vaccine.

              Actually Moderna is based in the US but they contracted with a Swiss company to manufacture it.

              Pfizer partnered with BioNTech for theirs. They are based in Germany. Pfizer is multinational with many divisions globally.

              J&J is a huge multinational. Their vaccine was actually made by their Jansen division in Belgium.

              1. Russian and Chinese Covid vaccines are both more effective than nothing and are both at least as good as our seasonal flu shots.

                They should count.

      6. How, exactly, do you think they test now for vaccinated and unvaccinated?

      7. wtf that’s such an insane amount of reasoning to come to the conclusion of vaccine mandate.

      8. No one is proving that they got a sufficiently strong immune response from the vaccines either. Proof that you have had the shot doesn’t prove that you can’t be infected or infect others. We know the vaccines don’t work 100% of the time for everyone and that vaccinated people can become infected and transmit infection. So there isn’t really much more of a reason to assume that a vaccinated person is “safe” than someone who has been confirmed to have had the virus.

        1. Exactly. It’s about obedience, not public health.

  4. at least they got a new governor whew!

    1. No more suggestive looks!

    2. She keeps it up I might start to miss Cuomo.

  5. And just a few articles below actions like this defended as “muh private companies.” I mean, sure it’s collusive behavior. But reason seems fine with this in other industries.

  6. Vaccine mandates may well be the last illiberal push that results in the U.S. reaching some mythical pandemic off-ramp.

    Science – Questions that cannot be answered (sometimes)
    Politics – Answers that cannot be questioned.

    1. What happens when it doesn’t change as much as they desired after 100% vax? I’m sure we will memory hole it and have some other excuse

  7. The heroes last year

    I have yet to have a coherent response as to why me, being vaccinated, should care at all if someone else is vaccinated or not.

    Democrats act like Covid is as dangerous as Ebola. They literally think that if you get it you have a 50% chance of going to the hospital. For most people this is slightly worse than the flu.

    1. According to Biden/Fauci/et al, the unvaxxed might infect the vaccinated, despite the vaccine being 325% effective.

      And Kammy actually invoked Ebola during the campaign.

      1. If the vaccines were effective, there would not be a mask mandate left in the USA.

        1. Nor would there be any significant infections.

          1. Nobody ever said there would not be. Even after the initial trials they were only talking about around 90% and that was before the more infectious delta.

        2. Mask mandates have nothing to do with the effectiveness of vaccines. Or Covid at this point.

        3. There isn’t one in my state or some others. Israel had limited restrictions. They are now on the downslope and have given millions of boosters.

          There is nothing unusual about boosters. Most of the childhood vaccines require 2-3 doses. I am guessing this is going to be something like the flu shot. Maybe once a year or something but we just don’t know at this point.

          As to the natural immunity thing. Well I would. The response to whole virus is different than the vaccines. So it would be like having two weapons instead of just one. At least that is the way I see it.

    2. A snippet from a linked New York Times article I posted in another thread:

      Federal health experts and epidemiologists agree that patients fully recovered from COVID-19 no longer pose risk of infection to others. Yet some people who have survived the illness are still confronting a fear-driven stigma from the outside world.

      That was from May of 2020. In May of 2020, a top writer for the New York Times posted that sentence without any qualifiers. Amazing what 18 months does.

      Prior infection means nothing. Vaccinated people are still a danger and must mask up both for self-protection from the unvaccinated, and to keep others from getting sick.

      1. It’s madness

    3. New variants arising by mutation of the virus within unvaccinated populations. Has already happened with this Delta variant.

      1. Another H02 moment from white Mike.

      2. Another Mike Liarson statement, unsupported by facts.

        1. Mike’s comments are often unfactsinated.

          1. Nice!
            I was gonna mention that Mike’s cluically-challenged, but it doesn’t have the same ring.

        2. Delta did come from India which was unvaccinated. Thus far it is the most successful variant. I think a better term is selection pressure rather than evolutionary. It evolved there but there would be selection pressure in somewhere highly vaccinated.

          Some of the other noteworthy variants have come from places with low vaccination rates like Brazil and South Africa.

      3. Gods, reading your ridiculous bullshit is almost physically painful sometimes. And as a decades-long subscriber to the Washington Post, my bullshit tolerance is pretty fucking high.

      4. Wait, you were in India and personally knew who patient zero for the Delta variant was and you didn’t stop them like the mutant zombie they are?

        Curse you Laursen, you’ve damned us all!

      5. New variants which the vaccines Uncle Joe is forcing on everyone are mostly ineffective against.

      6. This is bullshit. The delta variant was around before Dec of 2020. Looking at the family history of CoV2, it suggests that it first appeared in Oct of 2020 according to nextstrain/ncov. Go check it out. It also appears that the largest explosion of variant diversity occurred after the vaxxes were introduced. Which makes sense, since coding for the spike only will (and is) directing evolution of the virus by providing a selection pressure that will accelerate the mutation rate as opposed to not having the vaccine.

        1. That makes no sense. Variants arise by random mutation. Vaccines don’t increase the chance of mutations, they decrease by reducing the number of hosts.

          1. It makes sense. Of course vaccines don’t cause mutations. But they do provide evolutionary pressure to select for mutations that are less affected by the vaccines. This is pretty basic stuff. Akin to how antibiotics can encourage resistant bacteria to evolve. The antibiotics don’t cause mutations, but the create an environment that selects for mutations that allow them to reproduce more effectively. Vaccination may reduce reproduction and therefore mutation rate. But since it doesn’t prevent infection completely, it also encourages resistant strains to evolve, so it’s a bit of a double edged sword.

            1. Shhh! Mike fucking LOVES science. Don’t ruin it for him with facts.

              1. Correction: Mike loves “science” that comes from government liars and academic parasites, but the only way he ever got close to real science is if he was hired to sweep the floor in a lab.

      7. You know with an imperfect vaccine mutations will arise too?

        1. Fewer will arise than in an unvaccinated population.

          1. So let’s pump the whole population with every anti-biotic known to man! Less bacterial infections, right?!

    4. 1. As noted below by Mike Laursen: the unvaccinated keep the virus active in the community and increase the chance of a new variant that can defeat the vaccines.
      2. The unvaccinated are filling the ICUs and preventing heart patients and other non-COVID patients from receiving life-saving care. There have been a few reported stories of people already dying because the hospital was full of anti-vaxxers using up the resources.
      3. Medical staff are exhausted and won’t be much good to the vaccinated if we have need of them for non-COVID reasons.
      4. Battling COVID is expensive. According the Kaiser Foundation: “we estimate total payments to hospitals for treating uninsured patients under the Trump administration policy would range from $13.9 billion to $41.8 billion.” Why might you care about that? Because it impacts future insurance premiums and other costs that get passed on to taxpayers and the insured.
      5. Because over 2000 Americans are dying every day right now of this disease that you say is “slightly worse than the flu.” Mind you, in a bad year, the flu kills about 60K Americans. So, “slightly worse” is ten times more? Since tracking began, the CDC estimates ebola deaths around 11,000. Technically, the flu is about four times more dangerous than ebola and COVID is ten times worse than the flu.

      1. Slight correction… the Ebola numbers are “worldwide”–which is still limited to Africa. The 600K dead Americans are just the local deaths. COVID deaths worldwide are 4.55 Million. World wide flu deaths run about 650K per year.

        COVID is demonstrably worse than influenza which is demonstrably worse than ebola.

      2. White mike puppet?

        1. Read one bot, you have read the all.

          1. Citing Stupid Mike is great. He throws up the dummy flag to let anyone with half a brain to keep scrolling.

      3. Lefty asshole SD.
        Is.
        Full.
        Of.
        Shit.:

        “The unvaccinated are filling the ICUs and preventing heart patients and other non-COVID patients from receiving life-saving care.”

      4. 1. See Israel.
        1b. Learn what evolutionary pressure is.
        2. No they aren’t. The numbers reported are hospitalized with covid, not due to covid. Most ICUs operate at 80% capacity normally. Even the Wyoming story you idiots present ICU usage with covid is in the 30s and the measure taken was to suspend elective surgeries in case of surge.
        3. Good thing the democrats are firing them then.
        4. Lol. You just accidentally noted the financial windfall for reporting everything as covid related.
        5. 3 million die every year in the US. More die of hear disease and obesity related illness. I’ll listen to your appeals to emotion more when you mandate diet and exercise. Also learn died with from died of.

      5. I was just informed that what I said, backed up by your much more thorough answer is “bullshit”. Completely closed partisan minds.

        1. Yes, Mike, like most of what you post here it is bullshit.
          Mike’s bilingual; bullshit is is native language, but he’s learned enough English to get a pass.
          Stuff it up your ass, Mike.

        2. It’s not partisan to note that you, shawn, Joe, and Molly are full of shit.

          And authoritarian fucks to boot.

        3. You always speak bullshit.

      6. We’re a small company where I work at we spent 27 million on lipitor during the peak of it’s release and probably for about 10 years. Go look at the early oughts before it got mimic’d . I think you should check out the cost of all types of medicines for the whole country and see if your really big numbers still hold up?

      7. If we tested and reported on the flu like we have for covid, I suspect the numbers would be a lot higher.

        Your claim that flu is worse than ebola is weird and not what people mean when they say one disease is worse than another.

  8. But are they increasing vaccinations? Yes appears to be the answer.

    I mean, if you just shoot the unvaccinated or ship them off to camps the regional vaccination percentage increases too. Mandatory abortions would have the same effect. Noting that the mandates work is missing the point. Kinda deliberately.

    1. And per a previous argument I made, there is no longer an ethical argument against mandatory abortions, only a utilitarian one.

  9. I’m interested to see how this goes.

    Any odds on more NY nursing home residents dying this winter vs last winter?

    1. Cutting costs is good for society.

      1. COVID increases costs, actually. You’d think old people dying early would be great for Social Security, but the older working adults dying, people usually at the peak of their earnings (and tax) years, overwhelm any savings we get from our lowered expected lifespan during the pandemic. Plus, the treatment costs for COVID are high and those are being paid through medicare/medicaid.

        1. There aren’t that many fat 80 year olds working

        2. 66% of those who died with covid were past retirement age dumbfuck.

        3. Treatment can be done for under $1000 for a multi-day course of proven, repurposed drugs that are demonstrated effective in other parts of the world that believe in more than commercial vaccines.

          Mexico has better Covid outcomes than us now.

    2. Ankles are no longer being leered at by the governor.

  10. Me: “people without Covid are dying because there aren’t enough beds available because is staffing shortages. How do we fix it?”

    NY Gov “Fire a bunch of the existing staff!!!”

    Me. “?”

    1. You. Tell a lie.
      NY Gov. Tell a lie.
      You. Where do I post next, boss?

    2. There aren’t enough beds available because they’re all full, not because they’re understaffed.

      You have to balance the cost difference between unvaccinated medical staff spreading COVID to other patients and then suddenly dropping out of work for weeks as they go through the disease themselves, versus the cost of recruiting emergency care employees who won’t harm their own patients.

      1. Lefty asshole SD.
        Is.
        Full.
        Of.
        Shit.:

        “There aren’t enough beds available because they’re all full, not because they’re understaffed.”

      2. Second time you told this lie.

      3. You act as if every unvaccinated medical employee will get Covid. That won’t happen.

        And there aren’t any qualified “emergency care employees@ out there. There’s already a shortage and this just makes it worse.

        I’m vaccinated. And wish everyone would get it. But this is a horrible short sighted decision that is going to kill people. I guess increasing the body count is a requirement for a New York governor.

      4. Can you cite one person being turned away for emergency services because of the dreaded unvaxxed?

  11. Good. If a health care worker does not get the vax and does not have a good reason not to then they deserve to lose their jobs. It demonstrates that they do not understand medical science at any level and they do not care about the health of their patients and co-workers.

    1. Unions still have a lot of political muscle though. Twelve years ago, the governor actually suspended the H1N1 portion of the vaccine mandate for health care workers.

        1. “A Union by Nurses and for Nurses. Fighting for patient safety, the nursing profession, and power in the workplace.”
          https://www.nypnu.org/

        2. Seems our resident medical worker is lost in a smug-storm, or the self-important asshole has muted me.
          Someone else want to point out his ignorance?

    2. Molly, people are already dying because there aren’t enough ICU beds because of staffing shortages. And since you celebrate the deaths of unvaccinated Covid patients, understand that I’m talking about people with problems unrelated to Covid.

      Is firing a bunch of health care workers going to make that problem better or worse? Do you care, or is scoring the political point more important than people with heart attacks?

      1. It believes that people who have free will should be unpersoned.

      2. Could you provide evidence that the ICU shortages are due to staff shortages and not the more commonly reported fact that they’re just all full of patients already?

        Hospitals are placing people in the hallways because they don’t have beds and not because they don’t have enough nurses. Whether the patient is in the hallway or somewhere else in the hospital, they still get medical attention.

        1. Steaming pile of lefty shit, could you quit lying?

        2. Note how shawn demands evidence while failing to provide the same for his claim.

          1. Note how SD is full of shit.

          2. That’s a typical progtard tactic-evidence from thee, but not from me

        3. Could you provide evidence that the ICU shortages are due to staff shortages and not the more commonly reported fact that they’re just all full of patients already?

          Besides the fact that every single article reports on it?

        4. They can do that but it requires people with certain skill sets to take care of them. An ICU nurse is an example. You can’t just put an any nurse there. Other people as well. A community hospital may only have a half dozen people who can run a CT scanner, a small number of respiratory therapists to manage the ventilators and so on. And don’t forget this is a 24/7 operation. So those who remain may be pushed to do extra shifts and they are stressed already.

          It is hard to replace those people so it is a hard decision. I still think the hospitals are doing the right thing here.

          Oh there are temp services and you could offer bonuses but what happens when they are booked solid.

          Ethics aside what do you think the hospital attorneys advised them to do. There are big potential liabilities if a patient catches Covid there from an unvaccinated employee. Sure vaccinated can transmit but you are off the hook if that happens.

          There is also a snowball effect which is happening now where I live. If one big hospital does it the rest almost have to because it becomes a community standard.

        5. Johns Hopkins has a good dashboard showing ICU capacity over time along with the drill down of whether those beds are covid, non-covid, or empty.

          There may be a couple of states where ICU capacity has actually dropped over a multi-month timeframe – separate from covid burdens. Indicating that maybe there is a true staff shortage problem separate from either a tautological argument re beds/staffing – or staff quitting because of covid burnout itself. But in most states, ICU capacity is stable or up.

          Mostly that staff shortage argument is yet another argument that the just the flu folks glom onto, and deliberately misunderstand, in order to lie to everyone and poison public discussion with BS and lies.

    3. I agree in principle, although a positive COVID antibody test should be accepted as being as good as vaccination.

      Don’t agree that there should be government mandates, but I do support the right of any hospital’s management to set vaccination policy for their employees.

      1. Mike – same question I asked Molly. This decision will result in more dead people.

        1. Re-read what I wrote. What I wrote was not support for a mandate from the New York government.

          1. You agree with everything but the word.

      2. Mike,

        Antibody tests don’t measure immune response, only exposure.

        There is no way to measure the immune response from someone who claims to have had the illness but doesn’t have any other form of evidence.

        1. We have enough H02 moments without you joining in.

        2. Good point. I was thinking antibodies are enough evidence of immunity, but maybe you’re right.

          1. Instead of investigating you accept the argument you agree with without any inspection lol.

            1. Chumby
              September.28.2021 at 8:30 pm
              “Mike’s comments are often unfactsinated.”

          2. A card that says you got a shot isn’t evidence of immunity either.

        3. And there is no way to measure the immune response from someone who claims to have been vaccinated but has no other form of evidence (such as those who went through mass vaccination sites that don’t check any ID and just give you the shot and move you on)

          1. Are you sure that is actually a thing? Everyone I know who has been vaccinated had to present some kind of ID and got some kind of card.

            Having been through one of the two-dose vaccines there is absolutely no way they would let you get the first jab without info to set up a follow up time to get a second jab.

        4. Shawn are you taking any of the aid prevention medications, because by your logic you need to so I don’t randomly encounter you.

    4. You’ll make a good slave.

      1. Far too lazy to be a good slave.

      2. This person’s slave owner would put them out in the wilderness to die. Not worth dulling their blade.

      3. Being fired for not getting a vaccine is not slavery by any definition.

        1. Being required by a government agency to get vaccinated is, steaming pile of lefty shit.

        2. Not talking about the vaccine. I’m talking about you.

          1. That’s rich, coming from someone who voluntarily continues to live in New Jersey.

    5. “It demonstrates that they do not understand medical science at any level and they do not care about the health of their patients and co-workers.”

      Speaking of the science, what are the chances that these healthcare workers have already been infected with Covid-19 at this point, and to what extent does infection confer immunity as compared to the vaccines?

      1. 1. Who knows, but you can administer an antibody test so you don’t have to guess.
        2. Seen claims both ways, but it is harmless to get vaccinated even if you were previously infected.

        1. Mike Laursen
          September.28.2021 at 9:49 pm
          “1. Who knows,…”

          Which is sufficient to trigger Mike’s demand for government enforcement.

          1. I have no idea what she said, apart from your quote, but just for the record, . . .

            “The natural immune protection that develops after a SARS-CoV-2 infection offers considerably more of a shield against the Delta variant of the pandemic coronavirus than two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, according to a large Israeli study that some scientists wish came with a “Don’t try this at home” label. The newly released data show people who once had a SARS-CoV-2 infection were much less likely than never-infected, vaccinated people to get Delta, develop symptoms from it, or become hospitalized with serious COVID-19.”

            —-Science, August 26, 2021

            https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital

            Progressives are so dumb, and so are their policies!

          2. “1. Who knows,…”

            May be further evidence that this is someone who doesn’t care about facts or logic.

        2. Assumes more facts not in evidence.

        3. The shot is 100% harmless? Should be no biggie to remove that liability protection, then. Right?

        4. You need to change that to most likely harmless not harmless…

          1. Yeah. And I think shit like that coming from Mike is a lot of why so many people are not so keen on rushing to get vaccinated. When you tell people that something is definitely totally safe and harmless, they know you are lying to them.

    6. Fuck off, slaver.

    7. Or perhaps it demonstrates that they _do_ understand medical science, and know that government claims about the vaccine’s safety and efficacy are not based in medical science.

  12. A similar thing happened twelve years ago.

    Governor Patrick suspended the H1N1 mandate for health care workers.

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/10/24/new.york.flu.vaccine/index.html

    1. History something something repeating something

      1. Spanish flu, or 1930’s Italy and Germany?

  13. Progressives have been overplaying their hand for about six months now, and like a toilet bowl rat in a New York tenement, it’s gonna bite ’em in the ass. If there are any two progressives in the world right now without a mandate, surely it’s Hochul and de Blasio. If they were any more incompetent, they might qualify for positions in the Biden administration.

    1. Americans overwhelmingly support vaccine mandates.

      Hell, even your favorite FOX News hosts have all had them because FOX corporate has its own mandate. They’re all protected while they rile up their viewers and recommend they don’t get the vaccine.

      I mean, sure, all the dead GOP voters are going to totally bite the Democrats in the ass. Totally. ‘Cause dead GOP voters turn into butt-eating zombies?!

      1. Don’t care, lefty shit. None of your business.
        Fuck off and die.

      2. But this specific situation is different. Net-net this order will end up in less available medical care so more dead people.

        1. Yeah, what they need ahead of the delta variant making its way to New York id fewer healthcare workers. Makes me wonder why it was necessary to bail them out.

      3. Shut the fuck up leftie shitstained asshole

      4. Doesn’t understand IFR, makes statements unsupported by any models.

        1. Believes reality is relative to narrative.

      5. I don’t think you understood what I said. It’s the overplaying their hand part that’s gonna bite progressives in the ass. You might want to look at the demographic data for whom isn’t getting vaccinated and to whom your vaccine mandates are likely to apply. IF IF IF vaccine mandates are wildly popular with suburbanites in California, Massachusetts, and other progressive states, that doesn’t mean they’re popular with blacks in Florida or Hispanics in Georgia. 35% of blacks in Florida are vaccinated, 43% of Hispanics in Georgia are vaccinated, etc., etc.

        https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/

        Do you think pissing off 65% of blacks in Florida or 57% of Hispanics in Georgia is a good idea? Do the terms “swing vote”, “swing district”, or “swing state” mean anything to you? If blue districts and blue states vote even harder for Democrats because of vaccine mandates in 2022, that won’t help the progressives maintain control of Congress. Florida and Texas and gaining seats in the House at the expense of California and New York, and control of Congress will be decided by swing voters and people who decide to stay home because they’re pissed off.

        1. I mean Biden is only 9% unfavorable more than favorable in his handling of covid. That must mean everyone supports mandates.

        2. Ken, remember your analysis of turd, Tony and sarc’s constant lying?
          Check up-thread; this steaming pile of lefty shit is repeating the lie regarding hospitals engaging in triage as a result of the wu-flu case-load 3 times in one thread!
          No one has provided support for the claim and when Mike linked to an article yesterday (for Idaho, if you want some real cherry-picking experience), the headline was scary enough, the article claimed nothing of the sort.
          This lefty shit is cast from the same mold; the dishonesty is but a symptom of an underlying imbecility.

          1. They’re propaganda victims.

            They believe the shit they like because they like the people who say it.

            They’re just not very smart.

            1. Unfortunately, we listen to NPR every morning (wife insists). And they only present the official party line on “science”, which is to say the least, not very scientific. But this echo chamber is where probably 99.9% of progs, including Democrat politicians, learn their science from because it tells them what they want to hear.

            2. They’re propaganda victims. They believe the shit they like because they like the people who say it. They’re just not very smart.

              I’m of the opinion that your earlier analysis was more on point; these are not just people who are ‘not very smart’ and they certainly qualify for that description, but they are imbecilic to the degree that they are incapable if differentiating their fantasies from reality.
              Their mental capabilities are such that they are not capable of separating their fantasies from reality; “truth” is a concept not available to them; they are too imbecilic to understand that.

              1. Replaced with quotes to be more clear:
                “They’re propaganda victims. They believe the shit they like because they like the people who say it. They’re just not very smart.”

                I’m of the opinion that your earlier analysis was more on point; these are not just people who are ‘not very smart’ and they certainly qualify for that description, but they are imbecilic to the degree that they are incapable if differentiating their fantasies from reality.
                Their mental capabilities are such that they are not capable of separating their fantasies from reality; “truth” is a concept not available to them; they are too imbecilic to understand that.

        3. They aren’t worried, because everyone who isn’t getting vaccinated is dying. At least, that’s what everyone is saying. And another dead person in FL is another Democratic vote!

        1. I’m sure a lot of this is driven by prejudice and elitism, which is another way of saying it’s stupid.

        2. I’m fully vaccinated, and since that’s because I thought it was a good idea, in general I do think that people should get the vaccine.

          Of their own volition, though. Maybe after talking to their doctor if they have any concerns. Maybe look and some research and figure out which brand of vaccine they want specifically, too. But that’s just unsolicited advice at this point. Whether someone else gets the vaccine or not doesn’t really affect me personally.

          I’m very much against mandates. Masks or Vax. People need to be allowed to make their own decisions, even if I disagree.

      6. There was a time when Americans overwhelmingly supported slavery. Didn’t make it right then, doesn’t make it right now.

        Personally I give very little credibility to Fox News, you might swear by them but I find their mandates and their reporting unconvincing

    2. They know it too, which is why they’re pushing so hard. In no sane world do Progs keep seats in midterms, and they’re likely going to lose the presidency immediately, so you see a rush to ram in as much pork as possible before the factory closes.

  14. “The governor is keeping open the option of calling on the National Guard to cover for expected hospital staffing shortages.”

    Where is this magical warehouse full of eager, qualified National Guard medical staff? Last time I checked, members of the Guard are just regular people working at the same jobs they want to back-fill.

    1. Yes. A drill weekend will get you as an enlisted person a couple hundred bucks, about double that for an officer. Unless you are AGR (active duty guard-reserve) you aren’t making a living off drill pay. So chances are they are already working in the medical field in those states and you’ll just address shortages in one place by creating shortages in another place, if even that. You may activate people to work in the exact same hospital they worked in prior to activation, and they’ll be making a hell of a lot less on active duty then in the civilian world.

  15. Happening here in St. Louis as well

  16. The magical dream factory where socialism works and unicorns make strawberries.

    1. Not a big fan of strawberries. That might explain my hatred of unicorns.

      1. Unicorn Abattoir, after saying, “This is the last straw!”, buries the one-horned beast.

        1. Hiding the evidence is not as easy as it sounds – they bleed stripper glitter.

          1. Don’t bury it. Invite some friends over and have a BBQ.

  17. Well the unelected governor of NY believes her dictatorial power includes such actions. Hopefully the idiots in NY wake up one day but I fear they won’t until the damn state falls down into abject poverty and ruin. The good news is democrats have so completely pissed off black americans that they may come to regret their actions. Yeah right. The stupid batshit insane left cannot take in new information like that. They live on fantasy.

  18. I doubt New York has the option of firing essential health care workers amid a true pandemic.

    ALSO: Reason, please put the comment box at the top of the comment section. Cheers

    1. New York is not doing anything.

      Catholic Health Services of Long Island or Beth Israel may have different views about it.

      This tiny Union referred to above had this to say

      “Nurses condemn the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices for voting against recommending Covid vaccine booster shots for health care workers.
      Nurses continue to serve on the frontlines of the pandemic and are at higher risk of exposure and breakthrough infections.
      We urge the CDC to include nurses and health care workers among those prioritized for boosters.“

      So bottom line is the hospital has rules. This I know well. It includes rules about infectious disease. You have a choice to work there or not. Give me a libertarian argument about that.

      1. You can, and should challenge rules based solely in a politicking fear-driven response that will cause harm.

        I think it’s entirely Libertarian to stand up for your rights against stupidity.

        1. They can challenge all they want but it is a free market. Hospitals have policy manuals that are hundreds of pages. They thrive on concepts like best practices, patient safety, and quality control.

          Imagine if someone was in the hospital for some reason and caught Covid there from an unvaccinated worker who was there because of lax policies and oversight and subsequently died from the superimposed infection. I think there is a liability issue right there.

          1. it is a free market

            If you think healthcare in general, and hospitals in particular, operate in a free market in the United States I suggest you stop commenting and take Econ 101.

            1. It is as far as employment. They compete for employees and they are free to go elsewhere if they wish or get a better offer.

              Not talking about the economics in general. That is not a free market at all.

  19. “ALSO: Reason, please put the comment box at the top of the comment section.”

    This is a web-page package (with comments feature) Reason bought >20 years ago; it’s not possible in most of them to go in and make changes of that sort, and it’s not really possible to get most of the suppliers to do so; the original coders are long gone and it would take a ton of time to modify.
    You’ll note there is no edit button; Reason has no incentive to spend money to change it, nor, for that matter to pay for a host whose servers are not steam-powered.

    1. Reason has one of the easier to use comment section of the blogs that I follow. Anything with Disqus is an automatic failure.

      1. Yes, but you are a brain-damaged lefty piece of shit.

        1. Hmmm, if Molly hates it, I might have to rethink my hatred of Disqus.

          Nah, it’s still pretty shittyz

          1. It is still disqusting

    2. I would rate Reason’s comment section as simple as youtube’s. Youtube has an edit feature.

  20. Petrol shortage in England.

    1. Thats not punny.

  21. The people are sick and tired of being treated like Slaves of the State instead of being treated as necessary and respectable assets providing many with bread and butter. If the Democratic Gov-Gods keep snapping their whips they can starve to death; and they will eventually…

    Too bad we all have to pay for the stupidity of the left.

    1. Each successfully enforced mandate fails to sate their desire for control, instead it only intensifies their maddening thirst for power, to the point where they’ll cheerfully burn the whole motherfucker down than be disobeyed.

  22. “For an explanation of why someone might not want to take the vaccine, go no further than professional basketball player Jonathan Isaac of the Orlando Magic…”

    Never mind that the guy who created the mRNA vaccine technology (Dr. Robert Malone), among others, have some pretty fucking serious concerns, let’s quote a professional athlete for our medical counterpoint to endless propoganda about how safe and effective the not-vaccine that doesn’t stop transmission or illness is.

    You cannot follow science if you won’t look at a counterpoint, you worthless, lying shill.

  23. Interesting how many in the health care industry do not want to be vaccinated. Almost as if they know something we don’t.

    1. Not disagreeing, but they only need to assert “None of your business!”

    2. There are plenty of people in the medical field with goofy ideas. Lots of quackery out there.

  24. ” . . . putting America in uncharted territory.”

    To quote John Wayne in many movies, “not hardly”
    We are in fully charted territory when democratic politicians ignore basic constitutional liberties, and enacted laws to take our freedoms.

  25. Disgruntled employees can do a lot of damage.

  26. According to Hochul, the only way out of the pandemic is for everyone to be vaccinated, which is something that will not happen, ever. So what you have set up is a ready made excuse with scapegoats for NYS’s future failures to contain COVID while being able to claim they “did something”.

    1. Mickey, we may never completely “get out” of the pandemic, but it is possible it will become a rarity if enough become immune to not create plentiful hosts for new variants. Since natural immunity is highly questionable, the best, easiest, cheapest, and safest way to that future is for something like 80%+ to get vaccinated. Even if breakthrough infections occur, the symptoms are usually minor to non-existent.

      Happy jabbing! There is no sane reason not to unless you are under 12 or have a pre-existing condition of some sort keeping you from it, and you’ll be doing your part to help the nation and other humans worldwide.

      1. And yet, all the fascists do not exempt anyone, let alone someone with “a pre-existing condition of some sort”.
        Requiring a vaccine from a survivor clearly indicates it is about political power, not medical science.

        1. Longtobe, the Federal mandate for employers specifically states that pre-existing medical conditions must be accomodated. The problem is that there are very few conditions that have been found to be problematic for the vaccines.

          By the way, you need to look up “fascist” because you apparently have no idea what that word means.

  27. No Matt, the sky is not falling and at place after place where hundreds threatened to quit, almost all got the shot. Good!

    “Massachusetts Police Union Claims ‘Dozens’ Leaving Over Vaccine Mandate, But State Police Say Only One Has Quit”

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2021/09/28/massachusetts-police-union-claims-dozens-leaving-over-vaccine-mandate-but-state-police-say-only-one-has-quit/?sh=55f0a3994e63

    1. Another example of funny accounting for the Communist Chinese Virus; did they count ‘early retirements’, regular but not previously scheduled retirements, or long term leaves?
      Or just flat out “I quit”?

  28. Good- free market works.

    Get these ignorant SOBs out of HEALTHCARE. I think it’d be one thing if these morons were garbagemen or tree trimmers or anyone else not really around people. It’s a whole other thing that they are the ones in charge of the health of other people. If you’re that stupid, you deserve to be fired. And like someone else said, you can almost bet that these people are the shittiest of the workers anyhow that won’t be missed given their views on a vaccine.

  29. Indeed Rasberry. Here’s an infuriating article from a women who’s father died in hospital quarantine after being exposed to an unvaccinated hospital worker, and before that, had his surgery and rehab for a broken hip extended because of full beds of the unvaccinated.

    My father should be in surgery rehab. But with beds full of the unvaccinated, he died in covid quarantine.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/09/28/christina-baker-kline-father-death-covid-quarantine/

    1. So, he had a MRSA infection and covid isn’t even listed as cause of death, but it’s totally that unvaccinated nurse’s fault he died.

      1. Zeb, unvaccinated Covid patients clogging the hospitals prolonged his hospital experience until he contracted MRSA. He tested positive for Covid and was hospital quarantined in his last week on earth. His cause of death is not noted in the article, so you are making up your comment.

        Is there some part of this story which gives you pride in advocating for not getting vaccinated?

        1. The second paragraph in the article:
          Though covid isn’t listed as his cause of death, there’s no question in our minds that it cut his life short.

          I have never once advocated against anyone getting vaccinated. Are you really so fucking stupid that you can’t understand that one can think vaccines are a good thing, but that forcing people to take them as a condition for participating in society is not?

          1. Zeb, I apologize if I confused you with someone discouraging vaccine taking, but I don’t agree with you that not allowing people to participate in otherwise risky activities where they could easily spread it if they don’t have a vaccine it is not a good thing. As a matter of fact, there is long standing precedent in America for these vaccine mandates dating back to George Washington and a 1905 SC ruling. We all owe our society and country – indeed we have a democracy well worth saving, if imperfect – our best efforts to not needlessly damage others.

  30. Mike I have you unmuted FYI but your Joe Friday and Tony’s raspberry beret is muted.

  31. Thing is hospitals have been requiring things like flu shots and TB tests for years and nobody made a fuss about it. Some require or highly encourage hepatitis B as well.

    It is not about government mandates. More and more hospitals in states without them are doing this now. Patient safety is a big deal.

    The vaccines are not perfect but they greatly reduce the risk of transmission. There is really no excuse, unless there is a medical reason, not to get the vaccine.

    1. Yes, hospitals have required staff to be vaccinated against the flu and other things for decades. I worked in a lab (not with patients) at one in 1995-96 and was required to submit my vaccination records. The thing is though that this all happened without government mandates, which is fine. The problem now if you have governors and the POTUS imposing vaccines by fiat, what else can they mandate in the name of protecting health? You must exercise for an hour each day?follow a vegan diet? Not smoke or drink? The possibilities are endless.

      1. Yes, NoVaNick, because politicians are always on the lookout for things they can do to p.ss off voters for no good reason.

        1. Sure seems like they are. That’s my experience anyway.

          1. Sure bevis, that’s why Biden is so happy the unvaccinated have extended this crisis into the fall, just as he was touting our mask wearing days would soon be over in the early summer. You saved his plan!

            1. There has never been a shred of evidence that wearing masks has the slightest impact on the spread of the virus.

              “Biden is so happy the unvaccinated have extended this crisis into the fall”

              Biden is very deliberately flooding the country with hundreds of thousands of unvaccinated illegal immigrants. So yeah, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to assume that his approach here is “the worse, the better”. Make a crisis, then use that crisis to seize power is not a new strategy.

        2. Joe, politicians nowadays seem to take pleasure in pissing off voters who most likely did not vote for them. Dems fetishized masks last year, and now vaccines because they know it will piss off the Trumpers. Same thing with the Texas abortion law for the other side.

          1. NoVa, then you have to explain Biden’s pronouncements and predictions of early summer on mask wearing as initial vaccine rates were meeting. This rebound and continued crisis was not his plan and it damages his political position. If you think he relishes this, you must think he’s stark raving mad as well.

      2. I am not in favor of government mandates. It is happening all by itself where I live. The two major hospital systems have announced the same policy. The rest are certainly going to need to follow suit. I think other facilities like outpatient likely have or will.

        1. I saw a list of over 175 hospital health care systems from all over the country doing the same thing. Including big players like Kaiser Permanente, Yale New Haven, the AHA has endorsed it. It is really a done deal at this point. No need for the government.

          1. The notion that these big corporations are something separate and independent from “government” is a fantasy.

          2. “No need for the government.” Politicians cannot allow this!

  32. And to think just a year ago it was the Democrats refusing to vaccinate because it wasn’t FDA approved. The world really is splitting into a religious war of party-line Gov-God worshiping.

    Of course; Anyone with 1/2 a brain saw that coming as the Nazi-Regime started mandating their sexist, racist, weather/sun god religion..

    And just never-mind about natural immunity anymore. The Nazi religion is far more important than well anything at all to lefties.

    1. TJJ, seek help. There are no active modern Nazis beyond your fevered dream world.

  33. As I have said if the government is going to have “mandates” there will have to be sufficient PUNISHMENT attached to that mandate to make it work. Now the result of COVID-19 could very well result in death. Since that is the case then maybe the punishment for not getting the COVID-19 vaccine shot should also be death. Using this punishment every body would soon be vaccinated or they would be dead thus protection the living.
    But if they can make mandates for COVID-19 why could thy not also make mandates for other items that is deemed as necessary? Other things such as CRT being taught in schools. If it is to be taught in school then it would have to be in all schools private and public and even homeschool. There would have to adequate punishment to go along with the mandate, maybe such as five years at hard labor or some other similar punishment. But if we then are going to have mandates why do we need a congress? We would not. And if we are not going to have a republic form of government why would we need a President that changes every four to eight years? If we had a president or any other head of government that position should not be changed until the ruling elite decides on a new leader of the nation.

    1. Curly, the “punishments” are restrictions which are logical – you can’t work at certain jobs, you can’t get on an airplane, etc. In your effort to convince yourself that you are subject to a tyrannical government, even though it is democratically chosen and laws are passed by elected representatives and subject to judicial review, you are also imagining things that are not happening and will not be. You should also be aware that vaccine requirements have been in place for decades, George Washington insisted on his troops being covered, and the SC in 1905 upheld the right of states to impose mandates for them.

      1. So basically, you think what’s happening in Australia is not tyranny. And we don’t have to take anything you say seriously.

        Some reality check for you, Joe Friday – I’ve never had to show proof of vaccination for local travel via airplane, go to a movie theater, attend a baseball game, and dozens of other things that can be considered as normal aspects of civil society. You want to work for the military or near children, then yes, the nature of the work may require you to take vaccination. But even that did not require you to take a vaccine that did not go through the usual 5-10 years of he approval process.

        What you’re advocating for is an unprecedented reversal of democratic civil society, in which millions of law abiding individuals are rendered second class citizens and POTENTIAL criminal because they didn’t receive a vaccine. America has never marginalized sick people for infecting others in society, until slimes like yourselves decided to drag liberty to the guillotine in the age of covid.

        Cops can set up road blocks and follow up on red flag laws. According to your “dur but vaccination requirement existed” logic, they should be able to set those up all over high crime areas. Red light cameras too.

        The reality of the pandemic does require some necessary evil to ensure public safety. But in a free society, they should take the least punitive and burdensome approach. There’s no reason why unvaxxed nurses have to lose their jobs when some might be willing to submit to weekly tests. There’s no reason why airlines have to kick out mothers with kids who resist masks and into the arms of police.

        Remember, if we take your position to its logical conclusion, Trump can shut down the borders and deny visa application from the unvaxxed. Ask yourself “Am I the bad guy?” because you are.

      2. “Democratically chosen”, my ass. Every last shortcoming and deficiency found in the elections of totalitarian regimes can be found right here in the US, from election observers being refused permission to observe to ballot boxes being stuffed to members of the “out” party being beaten and intimidated to state media suppressing true information damaging to their party while published lies damaging to the opposition.

        If the recent US elections had occurred in any other country on Earth, the world, including the US, would have denounced them as rigged.

    2. Pick up any recent issue of the Atlantic, or Axios, or any other mag favored by the elite intelligentsia, and you will find at least one article calling for the end of elected or republican forms of government along with kind words for China because they get things done. It’s mostly because of climate change but COVID is only giving them more ammo.

  34. We know we are being lied to, they know we know we are being lied to, We know they know we are being lied to, they know we know they know we are being lied to. And yet they still lie.
    For a virus with a 99.8% survival rate you can be sure this isn’t about concern for health. Otherwise 10s of 1000s of infected illegals wouldn’t be shipper all over the country.

  35. B) work in close proximity to at-risk populations, which disproportionately means the elderly, the sick,

    Sure, except for the fact that the vaccine doesn’t prevent you from spreading the virus.

    1. It decreases the chances. Plus it is all you can do other than what they are doing already. So they have met what is rapidly becoming the standard of care in the medical community. This is happening everywhere and always was going to. They were just waiting for one of the vaccines to get final approval.

      Same for the military and federal workers.

      1. “Same for the military and federal workers.”

        Post office workers are exempt from the vaccine requirement. So are members of Congress and their staff.

        And of course, the illegal immigrants the junta is spreading around the country do not have to be vaccinated. The Republicans tried to add an amendment to the spending bill which would have at least required these people to be vaccinated before being released into the general US population. The Democrats unanimously voted to block this idea.

        Now tell me again about how “scientific” and “humane’ you people are.

  36. Thousands of unvaxxed Haitians

    “We HAVE to let them in, because they might work as nurses and doctors in the future!”

    Unvaxxed American nurses and healthcare professionals

    “You’re fired and all your benefits end”

    Few other things can better demonstrate the selective morality of the progressive governance in a pandemic, in which an individual’s need for mercy, equity and justice depends entirely on their identity.

  37. What authority does the government have to tell private companies that they must compel their workers to get vaccinated or be fired?

    For that matter, what authority does the government have to compel its own workers to take a vaccine?

    If this was an actual libertarian web site rather than just a state propaganda organ it might be asking those questions.

  38. Wait. Don’t doctors & nurses in National Guard medical units already have civilian jobs in clinics & hospitals? It’s kind of a robbing Peter to pay Paul idea if you ask me.

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