Minimum Wage

Democrats Can't Use Reconciliation To Pass a $15 Minimum Wage. Here's What They Might Do Next.

But the real reason why Democrats should abandon the effort to hike the federal minimum wage has nothing to do with arcane Senate rules or the filibuster.

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Democrats won't be able to use a shortcut around the Senate's filibuster rules to pass a $15 federal minimum wage with a simple majority—but Sen. Bernie Sanders (I–Vt.) and other progressives aren't giving up on the idea just yet.

Senate Parliamentarian Elizabeth MacDonough ruled on Thursday that the minimum wage increase does not comply with the so-called "Byrd rule" that governs the Senate's budget reconciliation procedure—a process that allows the Senate to make changes to federal tax and spending policy with a simple majority, rather than requiring the usual 60-vote threshold. That means that if the minimum wage increase is included in the COVID-19 relief bill that Congress is currently considering, the entire package would have to get 60 votes to pass the Senate.

Senate Democrats had made the case to MacDonough that hiking the federal minimum wage would comply with the reconciliation process because forcing businesses to pay hourly workers higher wages will translate into higher taxable income for those workers and thus more tax revenue for the government. Macdonough was right to reject that rationale. To be passed via reconciliation, a policy must directly impact federal revenue or spending and must not add to the long-term budget deficit. The minimum wage hike fails on both counts.

But that's not the end of the debate. In fact, it's really just the start.

Democrats now face three options. The easiest would be to accept the parliamentarian's ruling, remove the minimum wage hike from the bill, and pass the rest of the $1.9 trillion package. The White House seems to be anticipating this outcome, with President Joe Biden privately telling governors, according to Politico, that the minimum wage hike likely won't happen.

The second option is the radical one. Vice President Kamala Harris, in her constitutional role as the president of the Senate, could unilaterally overrule the parliamentarian's decision. Some progressive groups responded to the parliamentarian's ruling on Thursday by demanding that Harris do exactly that.

While allowable under the Senate's rules, this would be a norm-busting maneuver that would undermine the parliamentarian's role as the Senate's nonpartisan referee. And, for now, the Biden administration has seemingly taken it off the table as an option. "Certainly that's not something we would do," Ron Klain, Biden's chief of staff, told MSNBC on Wednesday. "We're going to honor the rules of the Senate and work within that system to get this bill passed."

Third, there's the clever option. On Thursday night, Sanders announced plans to introduce an amendment to the stimulus bill that would "take tax deductions away from large, profitable corporations that don't pay workers at least $15 per hour and to provide small businesses with the incentives they need to raise wages." Similarly, Sen. Ron Wyden (D–Ore.) said he was considering an amendment to impose a "tax penalty" on businesses that refuse to pay "a living wage."

As a matter of policy, this is likely to end up as a convoluted and messy intrusion of government into the affairs of businesses both large and small—though we'll have to see the details of Sanders' and Wyden's proposals before knowing that for sure. Purely as a maneuver designed to implement a certain policy while respecting the arcane rules of the Senate, however, it's a smart hustle—one that seems to have a better shot of comporting with the Byrd Rule.

Of course, the real reason why Democrats should abandon the effort to hike the federal minimum wage has nothing to do with arcane Senate rules, the filibuster, or political norms. They shouldn't do it because it would be pretty much the opposite of an economic stimulus. The Congressional Budget Office predicts that hiking the minimum wage to $15 would mean raises for about 900,000 workers, but that it would eliminate about 1.4 million jobs and reduce national employment by 0.9 percent. Those raises would be paid for by consumers in the form of higher prices, while the job losses and other knock-on economic effects would ultimately increase the federal budget deficit by about $54 billion over a decade.

If you're keeping score at home, that means it's a policy that would result in a net loss of jobs and a net increase in government spending. Those are the types of policies lawmakers ought to avoid even when times are good, but they should especially avoid when unemployment is already high and the national debt is on an unsustainable trajectory.

Confronted with those uncomfortable realities, some progressive Democrats have suggested that jobs paying less than $15 per hour ought not to exist in the first place. That's a callous way of discarding a lot of jobs in some parts of the country—in Mississippi, for example, the median hourly wage is less than $15 per hour. Forcing businesses in rural Mississippi to pay workers the same amount as businesses in New York City do ignores the reality of America as an economically diverse place, and it invites major disruptions in the parts of the country where jobs are already scarce.

Rather than smashing the Byrd Rule or trying to figure out how to navigate around it with complex tax penalties and other intrusions into the marketplace, Senate Democrats should recognize MacDonough's ruling for what it really is: an off-ramp to avoid passing an expensive, job-destroying policy. They should take it.

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  1. “But the real reason why Democrats should abandon the effort to hike the federal minimum wage has nothing to do with arcane Senate rules or the filibuster.”

    Indeed. They should avoid raising the minimum wage because doing so would be bad for Charles Koch, the billionaire who funds Reason.com.

    #InDefenseOfBillionaires

    1. They should avoid passing UN-Constitutional Legislation! Ya; The U.S. still has “The People’s” law in writing and a sworn oath.

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    2. There is another reason that the $15/hr minimum wage should be abandoned and it has nothing to do with Charles Koch or Reason.com. There are thousands of businesses that are on the verge of going out of business right now so if they had to increase the wages that they are paying now they would just have to fold thus throwing all their employees out of work as well as the owners of the business. So instead of increasing the tax revenues federal government would collect it would cost the government the additional lost revenues and more unemployment.
      The way to get employers to pay higher wages is to increase the job opportunities for low level employees. Then for the business to keep its employees it would have to pay a higher wage. Do you think that if two places that are in the same kind of business with one paying $7.50 to 10/hr will be able to keep employees when all the employees have to do is go and apply at the other place? Well I will answer my own question with a yes. I will also add but the employees that stay at the business paying the lower wage one would NOT want that employee any way. But any employee who has any thing on the ball would not stay at the lower wage place. So instead of by law making the business pay a higher wage even to employees that may not be worth even the lower wage make it so that the business would have so much business that they would need the employees even if the employees were not the best.

      1. @curly
        This is not an instant raise, it is a measured hike over the course of years. I’m a small business owner, and I support a basic wage for employees. I do think there should be a dollar or two lower minimum for those under eighteen so teens can still get jobs and make up for the lower average value due to additional training and compliance issues.

        1. So you think bureaucrats and politicians are qualified to determine the va,use of labor for all businesses?

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        2. “…I’m a small business owner, and I support a basic wage for employees…”

          On the web, no one can tell you’re a dog.
          You might be a small business owner, but if so, it proves a small business can be owned by an ignoramus.

        3. Wages are none of government’s business. They are properly determined by the free market. CBO has projected 1.4 million jobs lost if $15 minimum wage passes. And, oh yeah, minimum wage laws violate LIBERTY; that’s the most important thing.

        4. I was a self employee contractor for 30+ years and hired 3-5 people from time to time. I always paid over the minimum wage, but let people go if they didn’t produce. $10 K in wages had provide $28-30 K in gross revenue.
          Workman’s comp in my business was 25-50% depending on how weigh off the ground we were. That was a killer. Insurance, a bit 401K and I was always in a tough spot bidding against immigrant contractors. . . And I hired immigrants who liked my wages and benefits. Life is simply not fair.

          1. It’s much worse than that. Everything is so terrible and unfair. ™

            Everything.

        5. You’re free to raise your own employees wages if you so wish.

        6. Then pay your employees more.

          Why do you need the government to tell you to do that if you believe in it?

      2. If the democrats are serious about wages, the minimum wage should be eliminated giving workers an incentive to unionize everything. As it is now so much of what unions fought for is now law. Of course the union wage scale gets bumped up all the way through the ranks based on the minimum wage, sooo screw-it. Vote it down.

    3. Well said!

      1. That’s a parody account.
        Fuck off and die, slaver.

        1. Given the threats to our freedom escalating daily, perhaps the issue needs to be forced soon.

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  2. Democrats won’t be able to use a shortcut around the Senate’s filibuster rules to pass a $15 federal minimum wage with a simple majority

    Of course they can, what makes you think the “rules” can stop them from doing whatever the fuck they want?

    1. https://www.zerohedge.com/political/pelosi-keep-minimum-wage-hike-covid-19-relief-bill-despite-parliamentarians-ruling

      “The ruling from the Senate parliamentarian is disappointing, because raising the minimum wage would give 27 million Americans a well-deserved raise and pull nearly one million Americans out of poverty in the middle of a once-in-a-century devastating pandemic and economic crisis,” Pelosi said in a statement late Thursday.

      “House Democrats believe that the minimum wage hike is necessary. Therefore, this provision will remain in the American Rescue Plan on the Floor tomorrow. Democrats in the House are determined to pursue every possible path in the Fight For 15.”

      1. “Fuck you, that’s why.”

      2. Fact check.
        The current minimum wage exceeds the poverty level. Therefore the raising of that wage will not pull anyone out of poverty.

        1. When poverty is defined as the bottom income quintile, 20% of the population will always live in poverty no matter what.

          1. Feature not a bug

        2. Exactly. It was never really on the table.

        3. @longtobefree
          Fact check 40 hour work week x 50 weeks = 2k hours at 7.25 = $14,500 the poverty level for one person is $12,760 but for any family size over one person (any single parent) it is at least $17,240.
          Does the minimum wage increase for a single parent?
          Obviously you know the answer and you have to know that even a single person making $14,500 per year is in poverty in America.

          1. Fact check, the CBO estimates raises for 900,000 Americans. Assuming they’re all at the minimum wage (they aren’t), none of them are dependents (many are), none of them are sole income earners (many are), and they all have dependents (most don’t), that’s $69.75M over a decade. Even if the CBO is off by an order of magnitude and it’s only going to cost $5.4B how do you reconcile that? Even if they’re off by 3 orders of magnitude and it’s only going to cost $540M, how do you reconcile that? If they’re off by 4 orders of magnitude, how do you possibly believe they’re right when they say it’s 900,000 people who would see wage increases? Even if the CBO is completely full of shit and can’t find their own ass with two hands, how do you explain the $1.9T spending package?

            The numbers are so screwed up that you almost have to wonder why Democrats aren’t just asking to mail out $70M in checks to everyone making the minimum wage over the next 10 yrs. (as some “libertarians” would prefer).

            1. as usual one has to read it to see what’s in it , not pass it to see what’s in it

          2. “…Obviously you know the answer and you have to know that even a single person making $14,500 per year is in poverty in America…”

            As a fucking ignoramus, you obviously do not know it is the duty of the customers to pay extra for folks who need to up their game a bit.
            Fuck off and die, slaver.

          3. Wages are none of government’s business. They are properly determined by the free market. CBO has projected 1.4 million jobs lost if $15 minimum wage passes. And, oh yeah, minimum wage laws violate LIBERTY; that’s the most important thing.

            There should be no minimum wage. Period.

            1. Right. And when $15hr does what we all know it will do, get ready for UBI.

              No, really, it’s gonna be great. Haha.

          4. Do you realize you literally proved longtobefree’s point?

            Where do new idiots like you keep coming from.

            Is there a white knight retard factory somewhere?

            Oh yeah, there is. They’re located in every urban public school in the country.

      3. And anyone who isn’t worth $15/hr can just be unemployed.

  3. this is likely to end up as a convoluted and messy intrusion of government into the affairs of businesses both large and small

    “Unprecedented!”

    1. Yes we can!

    2. Wrong, but with normal parameters.

    3. “As a matter of policy, this is likely to end up as a convoluted and messy intrusion of government into the affairs of businesses both large and small—though we’ll have to see the details of Sanders’ and Wyden’s proposals before knowing that for sure.”

      No we won’t. We know that *right now*.

      “Forcing businesses in rural Mississippi to pay workers the same amount as businesses in New York City do ignores the reality of America as an economically diverse place, and it invites major disruptions in the parts of the country where jobs are already scarce.”

      Like they fucking care.

      1. @pelhaqr
        There is no requirement to pay the same. Only to pay no less than a certain number. Either can (and do) pay different amounts all the time and there is a current (ridiculously low) federal minimum wage, so your argument is nonsensical.

        1. Your ‘argument’ is sophistry; a nation-wide M/W will result in the same pay over much of the nation.
          Hoped to get away with that bullshit? Consider yourself busted.

        2. Y’know, I was going to bother to reply to this, but I think Sevo really covered it.

        3. He “owns his own business”, claims he wants his workers to get higher wages.

          Yet ignores that his workers wages must be factored into his customers cost.

          And ignores the fact that he, himself, can write bigger checks to his employees. No need for the government to force him.

          Fucking dunce. This guy has “I’m a gasslighting union member” written all over him

  4. “We insist that this number we pulled out of our ass is the only correct policy position”.

  5. The cost of living varies from state to state. A $15 minimum wage across the country isn’t necessary for a single person to take care of themselves.

    1. Your kids will be living at the government education complex and your spouse will be in prison for sending the wrong meme. So you’ll need to live on that $15/hr wage.

  6. STOP being illegally dictated by the USSR Nazi Regime! Lobby your State for minimum wage nullification! The federal has ZERO authority to enforce this B.S.

    1. but muh interstate commerce!

      1. Unless one is a ‘slave’ (i.e. Commerce) and works across a state line from where they live you just as well as yelled ‘Green Olive’!

        What does a green olive have to do with the subject at hand?
        Exactly………………..

  7. The second option is the radical one. Vice President Kamala Harris, in her constitutional role as the president of the Senate, could unilaterally — just IGNORE the Constitution as federal politicians have been doing for decades now.

    They ignore the USA and just start their ‘pretend’ government of Democratic National Socialism (def; Nazism).. These politicians are treasonous traitors! They IGNORE “The People’s” law; The U.S. Constitution consistently and compulsively.

    1. You’re the one with Trump’s fascist dick down your throat.

      1. Troll thinks someone is interested in the trolls erotic fantasies.
        Fuck off and die.

      2. Maybe it’s time to send the Mormon mafia after you.

        1. They wouldn’t do shit. They believe a discredited religion. They aren’t hard to outsmart.

          Get out of my country you America hating fascist!

  8. When each of them start paying their unpaid campaign volunteers $15/hr I’d at least respect them for having experienced the impact.

    1. Hell, I will be happy (and shocked) when they just start applying the ACA to their own staff.

  9. Here’s What They Might Do Next.

    Accuse the Senate Parliamentarian of being a Republican operative, and requesting, nay, demanding her immediate removal and imprisonment?

    1. Dig up some old MySpace post she made when she was 12 and accuse her of being racist, and then DEMAND she resign so they can appoint the first trans gay woman of color to the post.

      1. There’s never a liberal democrat elderly multiracial lesbian dwarf around when you really need one.

        1. Probability is racist!

          1. Probability is a branch of mathematics, so, I think they’ve already done that one.

          2. Technically, there is no concept of categorization as fundamental to or broadly applicable from abstraction to instantiation in numerics, algebra, calculus, geometry, etc., etc. until you get to *STAT*istics.

            I’m comfortable with the notion that statistics is racist.

  10. Vice President Kamala Harris, in her constitutional role as the president of the Senate, could unilaterally overrule the parliamentarian’s decision.

    That’s downright Trumpian.

    Impeach!

    1. Yes! We need a three-impeachment Trump. His credentials for 2024 would be, ahem, unimpeachable!

      1. It would be pretty hilarious if they impeached Trump for things Harris did. Absurd, but hilarious.

        “We’re the reality based community! Also, we’re doing *this*!”

  11. “It’s interesting that we keep reading stories about the stimulus, budget reconciliation bills, etc., around here and elsewhere, without much to indicate that these bills are opposed almost universally by the Republicans. You can only write a story about the Democrats bending over backwards to get around Republican opposition to these bills so many times–without mentioning the opposition of the Republicans–before people start smelling a rat.”

    —-Ken Shultz, 25 minutes before this article was posted

    https://reason.com/2021/02/26/syria-airstrikes-trump-mcconnell-biden/#comment-8783205

    Seriously, Reason staff, the reason the Senate Democrats can’t get the minimum wage bill passed without reconciliation isn’t because of Senate rules. The reason the Senate Democrats can’t get the minimum wage bill passed is because it’s all but universally opposed by Senate Republicans. The reason the Democrats are passing the $1.9 trillion stimulus bill through budget reconciliation is because it’s all but universally opposed by Senate Republicans.

    Why is that truth so hard to speak out loud? How many times can you fail to mention the real issue without it becoming a lie of omission?

    It must be eating you all up inside that the only way to end Democratic rule is for Republicans to win in 2022, but guess what? It is what it is. You might as well come to terms with it now rather than later–or do you plan to maintain this shit through 2022? Would you prefer to suffer at the hands of the progressives rather than give the Republicans credit for something?

    1. Would you prefer to suffer at the hands of the progressives rather than give the Republicans credit for something?

      We’re trying to make friends with people who’ve concluded we’re white supremacists.

      1. You cannot negotiate with your executioner.

        1. “I’ll give you $100 to use a sword instead of an axe.”

      2. Kick out the white supremacists in your party, then.

        1. You first. Also, what party is that?

        2. “Kick out the white supremacists in your party, then.”

          So you have no issue with the racist lefty shits promoting affirmative action, asshole?

        3. Like Robert Byrd and al gore’s father?

          Or how bout Joe “colored kids can be just as smart as white kids” “colored kids can’t run the internet like white kids” biden?

      3. Hopefully more people will reach the correct conclusion, that we cannot be free without greatly reducing the number of free range progs.

        There must be a culling.

    2. If you use the Reason search function and enter “Republicans” into it and then sort by newest, it become immediately apparent that the party is only ever referenced in a negative light. The Republicans are never lauded nor given credit for preserving liberties – when they are found to have done so, Reason authors explicitly claim the liberties were defended for the wrong reason or as an incidental side-effect of the actual intentions.

      1. It’s in the Reason Stylebook. Republican motives, at best are treated as suspect, if not outright malevolent. While Democrats are always presumed well intentioned, if perhaps somewhat “misguided.”

        If, on the odd chance that template is unsustainable, then the Stylebook says go with a “both sides.”

    3. Would you prefer to suffer at the hands of the progressives rather than give the Republicans credit for something?

      C’mon Ken, you know how this goes, when their guy is in charge and they’re horse trading more liberty in exchange for less spending then they’ll get credit for being fairweather fiscal conservatives.

      It wouldn’t be Reason if they didn’t kick those unequivocally evil conservatives when they’re up and then bound, gag, and continue kicking them when they’re down. How are you supposed to hear Democrats discuss whether they’ll respectfully or disrespectfully ignore any notion of balancing the budget with those Republicans coughing up blood in the corner?

      1. Thinking more about it, it seems like you may’ve called this a while ago (maybe iteratively); that any notion of personal responsibility and social/fiscal conservatism is effectively dead. It won’t actually die but with the discussion dominated by socialists and democractic socialists shouting each other down, they won’t have to bother shouting “Quiet you!” at any sort of fiscally restrained or pro-individualist opposition. What used to be a debate over the FedGov’s obligation vs. States’ Rights vs. Individual Rights has been transformed into a debate over the FedGov’s procedural correctness vs. the perceived intent of social(ist) democracy.

  12. The $15/hr red herring has only been in the bill as something to point to for their gullible followers, and as something to “yield” so that no one requires the blue state bailout to go away.

  13. Today in libertarian news and commentary.

    A group of officers showed up outside an Asda on the Wirral with a digital advan, proclaiming that ‘Being offensive is an offence’, accompanied by a rainbow flag. The stunt was also promoted by the Local Policing Team on social media, as part of an effort to urge LGBT people to come forward and report hate crimes.

    Those posts have now been deleted, and after a huge backlash superintendent Martin Earl has had to put out a statement. ‘We would like to clarify that “being offensive” is not in itself an offence’, he said, which was not so much a clarification as the total opposite of what his officers had emblazoned in all-caps, foot-high lettering.

    1. Interesting that in Great Britain, in addition to all the usual groups covered by hate crime legislation, sex workers are also included. Also, don’t let any Brit tell you that it is our spellings that are weird, not theirs. The adjective form of “offence” is spelled “offensive?” What’s that about Brits?

    2. More like, “four days ago in libertarian news and commentary.”

      I wonder how much of Spiked’s superiority is due to the reality that Britain given a green light to everything the Trump Brigade is warning about here in the US.

    3. an Asda on the Wirral with a digital advan

      A what what with a what now?

    4. What about people who find gay stuff offensive?

      It’s such a ridiculous standard to judge anything by. Anything can be offensive to the right person.

      1. What about people who find gay stuff offensive offensive stuff that’s tangentially gay to be what it is?

    5. And they seem to be saying that any crime against one of the protected classes is a hate crime.

  14. I agree that the $15 minimum wage has no place in the Covid19 Relief bill.

    I do think the idea of a $15 minimum wage is both popular and good. If implemented in a staged manner it would likely have less effect on the economy, while providing more movement of capital. It would also offset government spending to support lower wage workers, like food and housing assistance.

    It should be noted that even conservative states and localities have implemented $15 minimum wage. So I do think its time has come.

    1. Any thoughts on the job-killing aspects of this policy? This renders your statement about offsetting government spending dubious at best. Also, how does a minimum wage hike facilitate the movement of capital? Finally, could you provide a list of those conservative states that have a $15 minimum wage? I ask because the only jurisdiction with a minimum wage of $15 is DC, hardly a “conservative locality.”

      1. I’m guessing that by “more movement of capital” xe assumes that redistribution from the evil rich will be the result, instead of the greater likelihood of more workers shut out of the job market and perpetually dependent on state largess.

      2. First regarding capital movement. Minimum wage workers are much more likely to be on the lower economic levels and people on these levels tend to spend their money. People higher up on the scale have the advantage of being able to save and spend when they wish. So an increase in minimum wages means more capital available to spend and it will likely be spent, expanding the economy.

        Job lose can be minimized by carefully phasing the increase. An increase of $7.25 to $15 would cause a lot of job lose, phasing it should minimize the loses. There will likely be loses to other reasons like automation and so some loses likely will have to be accepted.

        Raising the minimum wage is popular and in 2021 Floridians voted to increase to $15 by 2026.

        1. “…So an increase in minimum wages means more capital available to spend and it will likely be spent, expanding the economy…”

          A 10% increase in pocket money now chasing goods with a 30-40% retail price increase. You are a fucking ignoramus
          —————————————
          “…An increase of $7.25 to $15 would cause a lot of job lose, phasing it should minimize the loses…”

          That same increase resulting from improved productivity means ZERO job loss. You are a fucking ignoramus.

          1. He IS very stupid. So many poorly thought out ideas. Typical of his kind.

        2. BTW, fucking ignoramus:
          “…Finally, could you provide a list of those conservative states that have a $15 minimum wage? I ask because the only jurisdiction with a minimum wage of $15 is DC, hardly a “conservative locality.”…”

          I see, as a *dishonest* fucking ignoramus, you somehow never got around to answering that.

    2. Minimum wage was created with the intention of causing unemployment among those lacking skills and experience, specifically poor blacks. The difference between then and now is stated intentions and economic ignorance. The effect is still the same.

      1. You said something sensible. Try to make that a habit instead of shilling for the democrats.

    3. PLEASE read a basic economics textbook before commenting further on a minimum wage. If instead you’ve convinced yourself that social justice matters more than economics, then ask where the $15 number comes from? It an arbitrary, politically motivated, easy multiple of the number of fingers on a human hand, Why not $50?

    4. It would also offset government spending to support lower wage workers, like food and housing assistance.

      Bullshit. Not even if it were spelled out intentionally as part of the policy. Especially with the continued moratorium on rent. Less housing/renting and higher wages means more $$ for rent. More $$ for rent means more $$ for housing assistance. Even if it there weren’t a moratorium, the housing is maintained by people making wages and increasing their wages doesn’t freeze the cost of renting/maintenance.

    5. Which conservative states are those with the 15 dollar minimum wage? Mostly it’s only that high in blue states like California where companies already have to pay 16 bucks to get people to apply.

    6. “…I do think the idea of a $15 minimum wage is both popular and good…”

      That’s easily explained; you’re a fucking ignoramus.

  15. >>”Byrd rule”

    cheating.

  16. Well I am glad that the $15/hr minimum wage idea is going down. There shouldn’t be a minimum wage. But if there is, it should be at the state & local level only.

    1. Agreed.

    2. Weird. Both Jeff and Sarc are getting it right today.

  17. How could Sanders punishing companies that don’t pay $15/Hr be Constitutional? That boggles the mind.

  18. The first three jobs I had (when I was 12-16) were all below minimum wage (delivering daily newspapers, shoveling manure out of chicken houses, loading chickens in/out of cages on/off trucks), but were extremely important to me (for the money, but also discipline and respect I learned) for motivating me to go to college, graduate school and start/run a nonprofit that sharply reduced cigarette smoking in the past 3 decades.

    Raising the minimum wage will be disastrous for teens trying to find their first jobs, and for most low wage workers who will lose their jobs.

    1. The last thing progressives want is for teens to work, and discover how much of their paychecks go to the government to support old people. They want teens to focus on social justice and education until they are about 27, racking up student loans that the government (i.e. taxpayers) can pay off for them.

    2. That is perhaps the worst effect. People need to learn how to work. If you can’t hire a teen or pre-teen with no skills for $6/hr, they won’t get any experience. This idea that minimum wage needs to be a “living wage” (whatever that means, I don’t think most people making minimum wage now are starving to death) is ridiculous and dishonest.

      1. That is perhaps the worst effect. People need to learn how to work.

        Maybe, see my comment about Jewel below. There is a portion of the population that *can’t* learn to work. There are a couple of bag/stock boys at the local grocery store that have climbed the ladder as far as they can go. One clearly has Down’s Syndrome and the other is a ~50 yr. old HS graduate with dyslexia. Both are perfectly adequate at bagging groceries, stocking shelves, and retrieving carts. Both have a strong family/social network that ensures they aren’t going hungry and they’re both cognizant and self-sufficient enough to know that they work in order to ease their burden on this network.

        You couldn’t pay either one enough to make putting them in charge of inventory, staffing, or a register feasible, hiring someone to stand over their shoulder would only compound the problem, and simply paying them more to do the same job isn’t feasible on it’s face. If just Jewel raised their wages mandatorialy, they could go work somewhere else but if the government raises the minimum wage, there’s nowhere they can go. The schadnefreude part of it is that the older guy knows/understands this. From that perspective, it’s arguable that a minimum wage violates the ADA.

  19. “…the job losses and other knock-on economic effects would ultimately increase the federal budget deficit by about $54 billion over a decade.”

    You’re not counting the additional stimulus spending (i.e. borrowing) that would need to be added to help the economy recover from this minimum wage hike “stimulus”.

  20. And what would be our reward for fighting back on min wage so Mcdonalds can sell kid sized burger meal for 9.99 (in LA) instead of 11.99? That’s right, they send money to deranged Jacobins, run training sessions telling employees to be less white, and support economic policies that ruin their competitors.

    We (as in the us here, not Reason or chemjeff) don’t support defunding cops. But we would also welcome Seattle trying to do that. Because we know they’d be kicking themselves in the nuts and consequences are obvious. 2000 additional murders and skyrocketing carjacking later, some blue cities are sheepishly increasing police budgets.

    Fed min wage affects everyone, but it’ll nail the prog oligarchs hardest. If Kroger has to close hundreds of underperforming stores in blue states where they also have to contend with higher taxes, that’s just reward for millions of odious little progtards. Either they learn their lesson or drive 10-15 minutes more to get groceries. Oh the horror.

    Once 15 dollar min wage is here, it should only give us more incentive to stop giving money to people who hate us. You’ll have less money because employers will cut hours and nickle and dime the heck out of consumers. Sports teams and Hollywood don’t have god given right to pay 20,30 mil to players and actors for their vanity project. If spending habits change dramatically, they’ll have to adapt.

    1. If Kroger has to close hundreds of underperforming stores in blue states where they also have to contend with higher taxes, that’s just reward for millions of odious little progtards. Either they learn their lesson or drive 10-15 minutes more to get groceries. Oh the horror.

      In ~’17, our local Jewel installed automated checkout counters. In ~’18, it removed them and hired a bunch of mentally handicapped, semi-retired persons, and local HS kids. In 2020, lockdowns hit, the HS kids evaporated, and the semi-retired persons became fully-retired persons… and the automated registers went back in. Pretty sure they’re here to stay this time. The HS kids, semi-retired folks, and mentally handicapped can go find somewhere else to work.

  21. Democrats should vote to eliminate the minimum wage altogether. This would encourage more union participation and the unions could set the wage scale for various industries. This could increase democrat voters for future elections.
    This is as dumb as having a minimum wage which is why I highly recommend it.

    1. As I have noticed over the last 60 years ever time the minimum wage has been increased no later than the next union contract comes for negotiation these union wages always take a large jump the amount of the increase of the minimum wage plus what they would have demanded with then increase in the minimum wage. This the minimum wage increase causes an avalanche in wage increases. If a business has an employee who has been working for a couple of years and is due for a raise and then new minimum wage law has just kicked in that employee who has been working for a couple of years will have to get that new minimum wage plus the normal wage hike fork seniority. This will happen all up and line for every seniority level. So in the end the wage earner working at minimum wage is in worse situation with the new minimum wage that that employee was without it because prices have had to increase to cover the new wage and benefit. So the employee as far as the poverty level is concerned is just as bad off as he/she was under the old minimum wage because the minimum wage will also cause the costs of rent and every other price to go up also.

      1. “…So the employee as far as the poverty level is concerned is just as bad off as he/she was under the old minimum wage because the minimum wage will also cause the costs of rent and every other price to go up also.”

        In fact worse off.
        Lefty shits like Tony and M4e have no idea how business finances function; they seem to think that a $5/hour increase in direct wages affect the price of the goods by exactly that $5/hr.
        They don’t, period. Fully-burdened wages are at least twice the take-home increase, more likely 3 – 4 times the amount.
        So (assuming you didn’t get canned or replaced by a robot) your 20% increase in pocket money means the retail for the good you produce is going to be at least 30% higher.
        Nobody wins, period.

  22. The Senate should refuse to pass any increase in the minimum wage because such an increase would be a direct driver for a wage increase for union members of SEIU and other unions which have contracts whose wage base is predicated on a differential from the Federal minimum wage. Not only a job-killing increase in the actual minimum wage, it would be a job-killing increase in union wages.

  23. Their attitude has correctly been that process nonsense shouldn’t get in the way of results, because typical voters don’t know their elbows from their assholes, let alone what a parliamentarian is. But they didn’t seem to have the votes on a minimum wage hike anyway, so at least they saved on Manchin chits. Cash those in on HR1. It’s the only bill that matters right now. It’s the only way this country is going to survive.

    1. The only way the country is going to survive is if scumbags like you get your fucking jackboot off the economy’s neck and if you stop insisting that every senior citizen in the country has to be crammed into a nursing home.

      1. I would love to hear how much public money you want to spend to give senior citizens a more luxurious convalescence. Voting for Republicans means, essentially, voting to put old people out of nursing homes all right, and into cardboard boxes. Getting rid of the social safety net for old people is their raison d’essence, I’m sure you know.

        I must have missed the economic disaster resulting from ridding the county of the chaotic madman overseeing a pandemic, and hence recession, he deliberately enflamed before inciting a violent insurrection.

        You must at least understand that it was possible for a majority of Americans to want to try something different.

        1. “…I must have missed the economic disaster resulting from ridding the county of the chaotic madman overseeing a pandemic, and hence recession, he deliberately enflamed before inciting a violent insurrection…”

          Still a steaming pile of shit. Keep repeating the lies and at least turd and M4e are imbecilic enough to buy it.

        2. Tony, this is one of so many dishonest and stupid things you have said. You should self perform a retroactive abortion, right away.

          You love abortion, so this should be cool with you.

          1. No matter. Republicans will take the stupid. They’d prefer if you not notice their plans to eliminate Medicare, actually.

            Why do you think they feed you a constant supply of gender-neutral potato head culture war shit?

            Because they agree with me. The only way to get stupid people to commit suicide in large numbers is to tell them Santa isn’t real.

            1. “No matter. Republicans will take the stupid…”

              They can’t[ you’ve got the monopoly.

    2. “…because typical voters don’t know their elbows from their assholes,..”

      Lefty shits are nothing if not good at projection.

  24. I must say that there is another way the democrats/progressives could get the $15/wage law passed and it is a way they have used to get unpopular laws passed. That would be make it a part of the new budget starting in October of 2021. The could include it in the budget and then refuse to remove it forcing those who oppose it to cause it not to pass and then refuse to pass a CR so that the government can stay open for a few more days. Then if the other side does not approve a budget with the $15/hr provision just shut down the government until the other side caves. The democrats/progressives would get what they want and make the other side look stupid in addition. That would be a double win and what progressive could refuse that?

  25. More evidence that centralized government control of peaceful actions and private affairs should be outlawed. The wage I negotiate with my employer or with my employee is a private affair. So is the price I pay for food, gasoline, stocks, land, etc. The words I write here on this forum are an example of a peaceful action…even if the readers falls out of their chairs and knock themselves out after reading them.

    We prohibit government control of speech, and we prohibit government support of religion…why is it so difficult to understand that economic decisions need equal protection?

    1. They are. The whole point of America is you can come here and buy any stock you want, start any business you want, an even swindle a little, all for personal empowerment, and the greater good doesn’t fare too badly in the bargain either.

      But no market can exist without standards and regulations. Increased anarchy is certainly in the interest of some. Mafias, for example.

      If government is intruding unhelpfully somewhere, the business community will surely be there to lobby against it. And if the violation is in clear opposition to common sense and maybe even the left as well, it won’t last. But that’s politics.

      Policy is a pendulum. We tried it your way since the early 1980s. We got a whole lotta nothing out of it. Unless you were a zillionaire. Then you got to suck all the productivity gains out of the middle class and into your $250 million Picasso.

      Now we shall swing back to a new New Deal consensus, the economic regime that, by the way, produced the very concept of the United States as superpower and every worthy thing this country has ever done. We’ll try that again until we get another lazy, greedy generation that doesn’t remember the calamities that brought us here in the first place.

      1. Shitstain here tries the turd’s ‘repeat a lie often enough and maybe someone will believe it’:

        “…We tried it your way since the early 1980s. We got a whole lotta nothing out of it. Unless you were a zillionaire. Then you got to suck all the productivity gains out of the middle class and into your $250 million Picasso…”

        Called on steaming pile of bullshit once more.

      2. So much stupidity in one comment. FYI, the ‘New Deal’ was a complete disaster that hobbled our economy and helped extend the depression unnecessarily for several years.

        1. For every fact, there is a right-wing alternative.

          You’re not entitled to believe whatever you want to believe. Whoever told you you were was trying to steal from you.

          1. For every fact, there is a lefty shit fantasy, often from shitstain here. You were busted on your unsupported bullshit, and you’ve yet to offer any evidence at all.
            Fuck off and die, shitstain.

  26. The Democrats ardently believe that society should be poorer. The whole point of hiking the minimum wage would be to cause those 1.4 million job losses and to put plenty of small businesses in the south out of business.

    1. The ones in low-wage areas of the north will be getting death certificates also.

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  27. Sevo’s law:
    Any time the government (coercive agent) sticks its nose into a transaction between two free (un-coerced) agents, one or more likely, both lose value.

    Hence, unlike a free transaction, which, by definition, increases the wealth of humanity, the coerced transaction reduces the wealth of humanity.
    From this, we can understand that fucking ignoramuses like Tony, M4e and others who claim to ‘know’ what an economic good is worth are to be laughed at and insulted; they are simply full of shit and full of an ego-centrism worthy of a 13 year old kid.
    The individual transaction gains/losses may be small, but the number of transactions are huge; it took Lenin and Stalin 30 years to prove that the USSR was a hell-hole; Mao took less time, as did the Castro assholes, but they all made it clear to those who are not not fucking ignoramuses that distributed knowledge is far, far superior to centrally-planned economies. M4e, Tony, and out other fucking ignoramuses are obviously ignorant of *that* lesson.
    Now I know full well that our resident fucking ignoramuses will claim that labor costs are somehow ‘special’, thereby proving they are fucking ignoramuses.
    Fuck off and die.

    1. It was put in the bill as a bargaining chip, hoping the republicans would negotiate on the bill, but they refused to bargain. So Biden needed the parliamentarian to get it out. If the republicans would negotiate, the bill would turn out better for the American people. They do a disservice to both free markets and American democracy by sitting on the sidelines, creating a vacuum of power that some other source will fill.

      1. No. Negotiating with democrats always get them some of what they want, and nothing of what America wants. It’s more incrementalism bullshit. The smart thing to do would be to get rid of progressives altogether.

        1. The smart thing to do would be to think with the smart part of your brain and not the chimp part.

          1. If you had a chimp part, it would be an improvement.

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  29. What should the progressives do if the $15/hr bill does not pass. Well, I think that they should do is just top trying to pass a the minimum wage bill! But knowing that they will not stop then there is a way that they could get it passed. Coming up will be the new budget bill to fund the government during the coming year. So what the progressives could do if they have the numbers is bury the minimum wage bill in the new budget bill. Then if it passed the house and got to the senate it just might pass. But if it did not and had all republican in the senate voting against it the progressives could just not send another bill to the senate and when it fails to pass out of the senate the republicans would get the blame. Then when an CR is introduced to fund the government for a few days vote no. This would cause a shutdown of the government. Soon the heat would be for a budget bill to pass. The progressives could then say we did our part and sent a budget bill to the senate and they did not passit. If the progressives can hold together the bill would pass.
    Here is a better could do if what they want is higher wages for the workers. Make business conditions so good that all businesses would be crying for new employees. These businesses to get new employees would have to be more competitive in salaries and benefits, thus both salaries and benefits would be better. NO government mandated minimum wage but the minimum wage would be higher. It the improved economic conditions were connected to a reduced and harder to qualify for “ENTITLEMENTS” there would be more people working and less on the government dole.
    I am afraid but I think that the reason for the minimum wage is more to make it so that fewer people will get jobs or keep the ones that they have now and more people will be on the government dole giving the politicians more power over the voters because these politicians will hold these voters future income in their hands, no more of these politicians no more government handouts. Then these voter would have to work for what ever they could get or vote to keep in power those politicians that are supporting the benefits that they are receiving.

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