Minimum Wage

CBO Says Raising Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour Would Kill Jobs, Because Obviously It Would

A higher federal minimum would reduce employment and increase the deficit, according to a new nonpartisan government analysis.

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In a bombshell report released yesterday, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) came to the shocking conclusion that raising the federal minimum wage to $15 would cost the economy more than a million jobs. 

Specifically, the CBO estimates that raising the minimum wage would cost 1.4 million jobs, reducing total national employment by 0.9 percent in 2025, the first year in which the full $15 hourly wage would be in effect. Some people's wages would increase, lifting about 0.9 million people out of poverty in the process; the evidence suggests these higher wages would be largely paid for by consumers in the form of higher prices. The knock-on effects to employment, taxation, and various federal programs would raise the deficit by about $54 billion over the next decade. 

I am being somewhat hyperbolic when I call this a bombshell; this conclusion is not a shock or much of a surprise at all. You can always argue with the CBO's estimates and models, and at times it's been quite wrong. But it's fairly obvious that substantially raising federal wage requirements would result in some number of employers choosing to employ fewer people, especially in rural areas with lower costs of living where employers are likely to be more sensitive to increased labor costs. Of course hiking the minimum wage would cost jobs. 

In recent years, however, it has become fashionable in certain quarters of the left to minimize or outright dismiss the negative effects on employment caused by raising the minimum wage. Sen. Bernie Sanders (I–Vt.), a longtime backer of raising the federal minimum, for example, has been known to cite figures from a study that assumed that raising the wage to $15 an hour would result in no net changes to employment. Essentially, in this view, everyone making below $15 an hour would get a raise, and no one would lose a job. A January press release put together by House Democrats on the Education and Labor Committee cited a related analysis which declared that "high quality academic scholarship confirms that modest increases in the minimum wage have not led to detectable job losses." (Whether a hike from the current $7.25 an hour to $15 counts as "modest" is, at the very least, a question worth pondering.) 

In any case, the left-of-center gloss on minimum wage research tends to dismiss research to the contrary, of which there is plenty. Just last month, for example, University of California, Irvine, economist David Neumark and Peter Shirley of the West Virginia Legislature Joint Committee of Finance, published a lengthy review of 30 years of research on the minimum wage. Neumark is a well-known skeptic of the notion that minimum wage increases don't cost jobs. But this paper, published through the National Bureau of Economic Research, was a review of decades of data, not a single study. What they found was that the "clear preponderance"—almost 80 percent—of minimum wage studies since the beginning of the Clinton administration concluded that minimum wage hikes cost jobs. 

Not surprisingly, given who tends to work minimum wage jobs, "this evidence is stronger for teens and young adults as well as the less-educated." Similarly, CBO's new analysis found that "young, less educated people would account for a disproportionate share of those reductions in employment."

This is notable, given the unique structure of America's current economic predicament, which has hit younger, less educated, lower earning workers especially hard. As I have previously written, a Penn Wharton Budget Model (PWBM) analysis of the economic effects of President Joe Biden's $1.9 trillion COVID relief plan—which includes hiking the minimum hourly wage to $15—noted the large amount of research finding that "unemployment has been disproportionately concentrated among lower wage and young workers in specific sectors, e.g., retail and leisure and hospitality." A dramatic hike in the minimum wage would cost jobs in the very same group that is currently suffering the worst effects of the COVID-induced recession. 

Backers of the plan might argue in response that the plan phases in a minimum wage increase over a period of years, and would presumably not take hold until well after the current crisis has ended. But that's just another way of saying that minimum wage boosters want to hit today's younger, lower-income workers with a double blow to their prospects—first the recession, and then the minimum wage hike.

It is somewhat ironic that the current push for a much higher minimum wage is coming even as the Democratic party's economic policy orthodoxy has moved left in an effort to run the economy "hot." The prevailing belief among many of the party's technocrats is that previous generations of center-left policymakers were too worried about inflation, and not worried enough about employment. 

Whether or not the balance of concern was misplaced in the past, it is certainly true that jobs and employment matter immensely on both a macroeconomic and personal, household-level scale. Jobs are part of the foundation of a strong economy, and stable employment has major individual benefits. Entry level jobs are a key way for younger, less-skilled, less-educated workers to build valuable skills that can help them maintain work over a lifetime.

Yet Democrats are now backing a policy that would in all likelihood significantly reduce employment, and longer-term employment opportunities, among those who have already been hurt by the COVID recession the most. 

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  1. “Yet Democrats are now backing a policy that would in all likelihood significantly reduce employment, and longer-term employment opportunities, among those who have already been hurt by the COVID recession the most.”

    How else are they going to create anew society where the people live in pods, eat bugs, and collect their meager monthly government allowance (provided they have the proper political views and visit the correct websites)?

    None of this accidental. None of it.

    1. The push to increase a MINIMUM wage is political pandering. Here are some of my arguments against: 1. We are not shown accounting examples that prove the $15/hr minimum is sustainable. 2. No business can operate when any of the costs total the same as or more than revenue taken in. 3. Any accountant or business person or rational person knows that an owner/operator must be able to see some reasonable return on investment or a business (hence employment) won’t continue to operate. 4. Any business owner, operator, accountant, rational person knows that the actual cost to pay any wage is generally about 20 to 40 percent higher than the stated wage. There is the additional Worker’s Compensation insurance paid by employers, non-productive days such as vacations, sick days, training costs, machinery breakdowns, employer paid FICA, etc. Wages are a competitive factor between companies. People constantly leave well paid employment for better paid employment. People are often dismissed when their job performance doesn’t justify the amount they are paid.

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      2. An increase will collectively affect everyone in the same way. It is no like one will have an advantage or disatvantage over the other. Henry Ford unilaterally raised wages for his workers. His rationale? If his workers were not paid well, they could not afford to buy his cars. His move pissed off the rest of industry, as they would have to follow suit and it would dig into their profits. Have you purchased any thing for $15 these days? No ones seems to object the constant raising the prices of all consumables, which the rich make in communist China for peanuts. If the poor are not paid, who is going buy anything. One thing you seem not to understand, rich people are some of the nastiest people in the world who would rather see the rabble, as they call the rest of us, on their knees rather than paying them their proper due for their labor.
        One millionaire hedge fund manager with a conscience stated there is enough money in this world to pay everyone on this globe a decent living wage for a 40 hour workweek. However, the rich don’t care about everyone. If everyone on this globe was indeed paid a decent living wage, industry would be booming. They don’t pay Mexicans anything, even exployded by US industry. Is their economy booming?

        1. “…One thing you seem not to understand, rich people are some of the nastiest people in the world who would rather see the rabble, as they call the rest of us, on their knees rather than paying them their proper due for their labor…”

          Bullshit.
          Lefty thugs peddling politcs-by-envy have them beat all hollow. Like you for an example.
          Fuck off and die, slaver.

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        2. Hi display a massive ignorance of economics. It is very different for a business to raise wages on their own decision, as opposed to a bureaucrat or politician decreeing prosperity.

        3. Why would anybody work hard, invest considerable time and energy, take massive risk starting businesses, etc… and all the other noble things that move the world forward when at best they will only end up marginally better off than someone with an anemic level of work ethic, productivity and skill? Income and wealth inequality is a feature, not a bug! It should be celebrated. The selfish desire for wealth was the initial motivation of pretty much every advance in quality of life of the last several hundred years.
          If you commie pinkos get your way and income inequality is way down by further looting and punishing the most productive of society, the average wealth of both the poor and rich will go way down with it as will the pace of advancements in quality of life. Read a fucken history book, when’s the last time class warfare actually raised the living standards of anybody, rich or poor?

        4. You stupid lefturd. These laws do not increase anyone’s ability to earn more money. They only outlaw employment for anyone who is unable to earn the cutoff price.

          -jcr

        5. That meme about Henry Ford is so dumb and exemplifies the complete lack of critical thinking the public displays on economic issues. Anyone with an average IQ should be able to see why it makes no sense. If you increase your workers wages so they can afford your own products, you have not gained anything. They can only buy your cars with your own money.

          The real reason he increased wages was to attract more workers and increase revenue by expanding production.

    2. Those who were hit by Covid the most were going to be hit regardless what their employees were paid because they had not business, their clients ceased coming.
      If the US government really cared about the well being of workers, they would not let all the jobs and industry to to communist China. You are under the naive impression that Republicans and Democrats care about jobs. They don’t. They care about the 1%. So not giving workers a pay increase benefits the 1% as they are the owners of huge national even global retail establishments and chain restaurants. That is why the governement is putting out this bogus study. While making believe they are seeking to protect the small local restaurants, they are really assuring the continued profitability of huge chains like Wall Mart whose entire work force is part time. You are one sad uniformed character.

      1. You’re a lefty thug pitching the politics of envy.
        Never got that girl, right? And it was because the other guy had a job?
        That promotion always went to someone who didn’t deserve it, right.
        Take your whinny pile of shit and fuck off, slaver.

        1. Where are the moderators? Selfish ad hominem attacks have no place hear if “reason” is to prevail. Raising the minimum wage will lift millions out of poverty.

          1. Poverty is defined as the bottom 25%, so regardless of increases in pay, if those increases are nationwide, poverty doesn’t change at all.

            Except for all those who will lose their jobs because they aren’t worth the minimum wage – those people will definitely be hurt and you just don’t care about them at all.

            You’re more worried about ad hominems that keeping as many people as possible employed.

          2. Lol. Moderators. Take that shit to Twitter, snowflake.

          3. “Where are the moderators? Selfish ad hominem attacks have no place hear if “reason” is to prevail. Raising the minimum wage will lift millions out of poverty.”

            Hoping for the authorities to support your bullshit, lefty asshole? Tough luck; fuck off and die, slaver.

      2. If you cared about keeping jobs in America you would have voted for Trump.

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    3. IT NEEDS SAID IN ALL CAPS BECAUSE REASON ALWAYS MISSES THIS POINT WHEN TALKING ABOUT MINIMUM WAGE HIKES….

      the minimum wage increase proposals are ALWAYS about paying off labor unions due to prevailing wage and the Davis-bacon act. Union wages/prevailing wages in states that still abide by David bacon are directly tied to minimum wage. That goes up, union wages go up across the board. That’s the unspoken truth here and far more important than anything discussed below.

      1. There is a racist element here, too. Minimum wages were originally advocated by unions because they tended to shut out blacks & immigrants. After all, if the employer had to pay the going rate for a union apprenticeship-trained journeyman, why not get one? (Instead of some fresh-off-the-farm black man moving north for a better life, or some no-speaka-the-English immigrant.)
        Notice who gets hurt here: The CBO is telling us it’s still those younger and less skilled. Note that blacks and immigrants are frequently in our inner cities, where the school systems often don’t prepare them to compete. Again, if those employers are forced to pay for white, better-trained, more-experienced workers, that’s who they’ll prefer to take.
        The folks here advocating for a $15 minimum wage aren’t the nice dis-interested people they pretend to be: A lot of them are selfish old white guys seeking their own advantage at the black man’s expense.

      1. The DailyKOS does not produce respected economics papers – the CBO does.

        You’re trusting the wrong source.

        1. They’re reporting on the CBO’s report… which also stated that raising the MW would consign twice as many to unemployment.

          Because as a wise man once said, the real minimum wage is zero.

      2. O
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        G!
        Lefty shit cites Kos.
        Fuck off and die, slaver.

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  2. IIRC, the CBO is non-partisan, which means bi-partisan, which means Republicans are involved, which means it is wrong.

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    2. But wait…by that same logic it also has Democrats that are involed. Which means it is wrong? Very confusing concept there…

    3. Are you disagreeing with the conclusion that higher wages lead to job losses? Or just being a troll by concluding that anything that involves Republicans, even if Democrats are involved and reach the same conclusion, must be “wrong”?

      The point is: if you force employers to pay their employees DOUBLE they will just find ways to pay fewer employees, such as by giving their cashier jobs to touchscreen kiosks.

      1. He’s pointing out that Reason is only opposed to this because icky Republicans are involved. He’s being facetious.

  3. Pay up or shut up, billionaires.

    1. “Pay up or shut up, billionaires.”

      Your jealousy shows, lefty shit.
      Get a job.

    2. You don’t understand the beneficial role that the wealthy play in your life.
      Most (say, 90%-99%) of their money isn’t in their hands (or basement, ala Scrooge McDuck).
      Instead, it’s invested in businesses and the inventories they need to run.
      If nobody builds that business, you can’t get a job there.
      This is a big part of the inner-city’s problems; there are few businesses there — especially of any size — so the services they might provide (such as groceries) aren’t conveniently available, and (more importantly) the jobs they might provide aren’t there. Which is why inner-city residents waste so much of their day riding the bus to get to work (or the grocery store).
      They would be much better off if their community were more welcoming to investors.

  4. If they’re not paying a living wage, those jobs shouldn’t exist in the first place.

    1. Conversely, if they’re not making a living wage…?

      1. Your sarcometer needs recalibration.

        1. Your sarcometer needs it more.

          1. No, you’re a towel.

            1. And you’re sqrsly.

              SQRLSY One
              February.8.2021 at 5:59 pm
              Your gist two smart fur the wrist of U.S.A.!

              sarcasmic
              February.8.2021 at 4:46 pm
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    2. If workers can’t find anyone willing to pay them $15/hour, they shouldn’t be working anyway.

      1. Huh? I am trying to wrap my head around that comment. So what you are saying is that someone who can’t make $15/hr or more…should just not concern themselves with working? Do you realize that would include more than 65,000,000 people? That would immediately make our unemployment rate jump to nearly 20%. That seems like a bad idea….but you…I guess I could be wrong.

      2. Especially with unemployment paying them more to stay home….until that happy meal sets you back a Jackson or perhaps a Tubman

      3. ^LOL… Perfectly Counter Stated!

      4. That’s a real problem we’re facing. We have tens of millions of citizens who are not feasibly employable at any wage. They lack the social skills, personal habits, and basic education to function in any workplace. No one is going to hire them, ever, no matter what the minimum is.

        1. Tens of Millions of Citizens who’ve learned it’s easier to lobby the Gov-Gods for the Power to Steal from others; than it is to learn how to be an ASSET and create VALUE for mankind.

          It all goes back to the foundational belief in the Power to Steal = Wealth.

          Which is criminal.

        2. but with Universal Basic Wealth Transfer, they can lobby for social justice in their free time….

    3. What is a living wage to you, is not the same as what is a living wage to someone else. And certainly, 0 dollars is not a living wage either.

      1. It can be if you inherited a billion dollars.

        1. Or STEAL a billion dollars from working taxpayers.

        2. Good point.
          It introduces the concept of the job that’s discretionary.
          Such as, breeding race horses, or owning a baseball team, or racing yachts, or being a U.S. Senator, or writing the great American novel, or living life as an “artiste”, or owning a ranch, or . . .
          Ever notice how many of our politicians — the folks who want to write these rules — are super-wealthy?

    4. They are paying a living wage if their employees are full time. $7.25 an hour, 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year earns you over $2,000 more than the Federal poverty level. Technically, that is a living wage. The problem is, virtually no one making minimum is working anywhere near full time.

      1. And employers make sure it stays that way. They offer part-time work only to avoid paying benefits, give workers constantly changing schedules and demand “on call” hours so they can’t keep second jobs, and make sure people quit or get fired before they can earn longevity increases.

        1. … Yep; Gov-Gods dictation has made a MESS out of the simple concepts of Supply and Demand.

          No one volunteers to have Gov-Guns Power to Steal pointed at them; but believers in the Power to Steal LOVES Gov-Guns.

          1. Thank you, Dr. Bronner.

    5. No joke. I’ve debated people who actually think workers are better off jobless than earning below a certain wage.

  5. Minimum wage was originally sold as a way to keep those lacking education and skills (predominantly black) from getting work.

    Still does.

    All that’s changed are the stated intentions.

    1. Fuck off sqrlsy.

      SQRLSY One
      February.8.2021 at 5:59 pm
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      sarcasmic
      February.8.2021 at 4:46 pm
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    2. I thought it started as a way to keep Chinese out of logging jobs in BC…

    3. How would minimum wage “keep those lacking an education” from getting work? That is exactly the opposite of what minimum wage was meant to do. It was a protectionist measure to be sure that uneducated people working in labor jobs were paid a fair wage, by law. Anyone caught paying people “slave wages” was in theory subject to criminal prosecution. What about that is confusing?

      1. Businesses won’t pay someone more than they produce for the company. If someone lacks the skill and/or education to earn minimum wage they will be fired, or never hired.

        Minimum wage doesn’t magically make unskilled workers more valuable. It makes them permanently unemployed.

        1. BOOM
          if you have to pay someone $ 15/hour would you hire Joe Biden? Fuck no you wouldn’t.

          1. Simply stated, the minimum wage is always zero.

          2. China disagrees. They’ve paid him millions.

      2. I find it doubtful businesses would have supported minimum wage laws just so they could be racist in their hiring practices. Nobody really needed a pretext then.

        That said, I find it pretty easy to see how minimum wage laws would push less educated/skilled laborers out of work. If someone’s labor isn’t actually worth in the marketplace what the government is forcing you to pay, you will find someone better, who’s now more willing to work that job because it pays more. Think: if McDonald’s started paying $45/hr for its cashier roles, wouldn’t the company be more selective in its hiring practices? What would happen to all the teenagers who were working the job before? Would they get a raise or get replaced?

        1. “I find it doubtful businesses would have supported minimum wage laws just so they could be racist in their hiring practices. Nobody really needed a pretext then.”

          Businesses didn’t want to be racist in their hiring practices. White union members wanted to tie their hands.

    4. Sarc isn’t wrong about this.

  6. $15 an hour? What an outrageous idea, who could have seen this coming?

    1. $15/hour is fine in San Francisco. It’s a really really bad idea in Puerto Rico.

      1. Actually any government forced wage on any level in any location is fascism.

        But yes, if it has to exist, it’s at least workable on a local level.

        1. R Mac – if you’re saying what most do when they say the government shouldn’t interfere with wage negotiations between employers and employees, why then do employers use government (police) and courts to squash strikes?

            1. And I’m not saying that to be a smart ass, I’d want to know the details of the strike(s) you’re referring to.

              1. You should be asking as a smart ass; hasn’t happened since WWII, along with gov’t control of the entire economy.

                1. Well that’s what I thought, but I figured I’d give the 50 center a shot to teach me something new!

          1. “…why then do employers use government (police) and courts to squash strikes?”

            Bullshit.

      2. Indeed. WA state minimum wage is now $13.69 per hour. It’s really hurt eastern and central WA employment and advancement opportunities for entry level jobs.

  7. A minimum wage increase would also be bad for Charles Koch, the billionaire who funds Reason.com. Mr. Koch prefers to hire immigrants (especially from Mexico) and pay them substantially less than $15 / hour.

    However I don’t expect a minimum wage increase to happen as long as Biden is President. Sure, he might claim he wants one just to trick a few poor voters into staying in the Democratic coalition. But Biden knows he’s in office to serve the interests of billionaires and Wall Street.

    #InDefenseOfBillionaires

    1. Why stop at $15 lets push everyone into upper middle class status and make minimum wage $150… Or a universal income of $15K a month…. or just send everyone a check for $1 Million every now a then… Where did you study math and economics Sr Libtardian? I’m curious.

      1. That’s a parody account, but not a very good one.

  8. Ok. Then what do we do? Do we just accept that our economy needs people to work full time jobs for sub-livable wages? Do we use public support to help them with basic living necessities? Or do we just not care?

    1. Define “our economy.”
      Define “sub-livable wages.”
      Define “basic living necessities.”

      And then fuck off.

    2. The labor market should reflect the supply and demand of the types of labor there are out there. If there is a large supply of a certain type of labor – because it does not require much skill – then the price of that labor is going to be low. Most people have the capacity to develop skills such that their labor becomes more valuable than unskilled labor, and that’s what most people ought to strive for IMO.

      1. *reads chemjeff’s comment*
        *reads it again*
        *scratches head*
        *reads it again*

        THAT’S RIGHT!

        1. He does occasionally get right.

        2. But you know, according to Jesse and the other right-wing morons, I’m a left-wing proggie who votes for AOC and hates America. Actually, I’m a libertarian who cannot stand right-wing assholes.

          1. You were right about this, but you are not a libertarian. At best you are an open borders progressive with some free market inclinations.

          2. “I’m a left-wing proggie who votes for AOC”

            Who said you vote for AOC?

      2. ” Most people have the capacity to develop skills such that their labor becomes more valuable”

        The number of people who do NOT have that capacity, due to incompetent upbringing and early education, is huge.

        1. The number of people who do NOT have that capacity, due to incompetent upbringing and early education, is huge.

          Citation needed

          1. Yeh, he keeps arm-waving about this, but like trueman, never has any evidence.

            1. This is a comments board, not an academic seminar. I won’t be writing you any research papers. I didn’t see any citations for the assertion, ”Most people have the capacity to develop skills such that their labor becomes more valuable”

      3. You nailed it. Good job.

    3. Less than three percent of workers are paid minimum wage. It’s not meant to be a living wage. Its meant to be a place to start and get experience. You want to really help people? Get rid of it. Seriously. If 97% of the workforce is already paid more than the minimum wage, what do you think would happen if it were eliminated? I’ll tell you what would happen. People who are currently unemployable due to a lack of skills and/or education would be able to find employment, gain experience, and the actually earn a living wage. Right now minimum wage prevents that and creates a permanent class of people who will never find work, as it was originally intended to do.

      1. The number of people making exactly min wage is not that important. What is important is the number of people making less then a living wage, and that number is much larger. Also the notion that min wage was for teens or for very entry level is historically wrong.

        1. No one is owed a living wage for showing up somewhere to do something. It really depends on who it’s for and what it is.

        2. Historically minimum wage was enacted to create unemployment. It was a wage floor intended to protect white, union workers from unskilled blacks migrating from the south who were willing to work for less money. So they made it a crime to pay those blacks a lower wage, which resulted in them not being paid at all. This was when racism and eugenics were fashionable. Look it up if you don’t believe me.

          1. Fucking progtards making me agree with drunk ass sarc. Yes, historically, minimum wage was created because of racism. And planned parenthood was created by a racist eugenicist.

            Remind me which party still supports these things?

            1. The one he advocated for last election.

            1. Maybe. But it could just be that she’s ignorant.

          1. You are correct. In fact many of our. Orders infringements on the free market, and the Bill of Rights stem from progressive Democrat’s efforts to disenfranchise blacks. Modern gun control laws and marriage licensing requirements were designed to disarm blacks and prevent mixed race marriages respectively.

        3. “…What is important is the number of people making less then a living wage,..”

          Fucking lefty ignoramuses think a number they pull out of their asses constitutes ‘a living wage’.
          Fucking lefty ignoramuses are to be ignored. Fuck off and die MG.

        4. What is a “living wage” if you live with your parents?

          1. Depends if you live upstairs, or in the basement like Molly?

    4. Do we just accept that our economy needs people to work full time jobs for sub-livable wages?

      Most minwagers are kids, not working full time.

      Do we use public support to help them with basic living necessities?

      Most don’t need it.

      Or do we just not care?

      About you? We don’t.

    5. I think you just raise the minimum wage and assume all those problems go away because feelz.

    6. We do care. That’s why people living in poverty get
      -Section 8 or other forms of subsidized housing
      -Medicaid, better than any other insurance policy, no deductibles or co-pays
      -Free Pre-K, K-12 (at any of a wide variety of charter schools if they wish) and mostly free post-secondary education.

      What the government cannot give away are the skills learned and possibility of future success that does not come from government anti-poverty policies and does come from hard work. Any you can’t get that if you never get a foot in the door anywhere because all low wage jobs have been replaced by computers.

      1. And the people who oppose minimum wage also oppose all of those programs. The conversation would be much different if those who opposed minimum wage were strong supporters of social welfare programs.

        1. “The conversation would be much different if those who opposed minimum wage were strong supporters of social welfare programs.”

          And the conversation would be quite different if you weren’t a lefty econ-ignoramus.

        2. Molly, the main reason your kind favor those things is that it allows you to bribe voters with taxpayer money. As progressives are not truly generous. They just give away OPM, and are rarely generous with their own.

          This is a proven fact.

    7. MollyGodiva
      February.9.2021 at 2:18 pm
      “Ok. Then what do we do?..”

      Get lefty shitbags like you to fuck off and die, and then let people agree between themselves on what’s a valid wage.

    8. Maybe we need to stop pretending that our fat thumb is not already all over the scales distorting the economy and labor markets. We are a completely corrupted society to our fucking bones. Minimum wage is a diversion – to keep us from addressing all the ways in we are deliberately screwing those at the bottom.

      Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Singapore, Hong Kong, and Switzerland do NOT have a minimum wage. They each have very different ways of addressing how to make labor markets a true free market at the bottom. They do not simply assume it to be so or assume that all the other distortions in an economy have no outsized effect at the bottom.

      This country – is fucking clueless.

      1. I kept hearing how Denmark has a minimum wage of $20/hour and how they are this great socialist utopia, so I looked it up. You’re right. Denmark does not have a minimum wage law. Also, the cost of living for the country of Denmark is roughly that of the city of San Francisco. It’s is bizarre that certain clueless (deliberately or otherwise) people seem to think the economies of all 50 states is the same as that of San Francisco and that a national minimum wage law would affect every region the same.

        1. Also, psychologically, much easier to be generous in a very homogenous society.

          1. Even easier for racists to continually find reasons to justify racism. Or were you talking about homogenized milk?

            1. He is using about the high social programs found in the Netherlands where citizens sentiment decreased greatly due to large refugee numbers dummy.

          2. True. But it’s more than that. I lived in Europe. A big difference between most European countries and the U.S. is how the tax revenue gets spent. It’s a lot easier to be generous when your taxes go to services that are useful to, and available to, most people: retirement benefits, healthcare, public transportation (much more useful to high-density Europe than the US), roads. When I paid taxes to Germany I felt that they weren’t being flushed down the toilet. In the U.S. it sure feels that way.

            1. It helps that Europe doesn’t pay for their national defense, that’s paid for by the US. The US also subsidizes medical care by paying for the vast majority of research into new medicines and what not and being one of the few countries to pay market rates of those medicines when they come to market.

              The US also keeps open and protects shipping lanes for Europe so they don’t have to allowing both imports and exports easier and cheaper flow.

              This also isn’t to mention the size and diversity differences between countries in Europe versus the US and many other factors.

              Or you can keep living in your fairy tale world where everything Europe does is better than everything the US does.

      2. If I recall a text from the 1990s, labor unions in Sweden fight for lower wages, to better insure jobs stay in Sweden.

      3. “Maybe we need to stop pretending that our fat thumb is not already all over the scales distorting the economy and labor markets. We are a completely corrupted society to our fucking bones. Minimum wage is a diversion – to keep us from addressing all the ways in we are deliberately screwing those at the bottom…”

        JFree is here to solve EVERYTHING! Just ask him, but expect an answer couched in baffle-gab from beginning to end.

    9. ^True believer in [WE] mob mentality.

      Ok. Then what do we do? Do we just accept that our economy needs people to work full time jobs for sub-livable wages? Do we use public support to help them with basic living necessities? Or do we just not care?

      Well YOU can care and YOU can not-accept a sub-livable wage and YOU can use welfare and YOU can help them with basic necessities….

      But let me clue you into something… YOU can care about others all you want but until that other person decides to CARE for themselves you’ll just have another ‘child’ to take care off.

      YOUR decision; YOUR responsibility. NOT [WE].

      1. YOU and your like mined [WE] can do whatever you want — Just don’t *FORCE* me to pay for at the point of a Gov-Gun……………….

    10. Typically the way it works is that people making what others consider a “sub-livable” wage take steps to reduce their expenses, such as getting roommates, living with family members, working a second job, or improving their skills and education so they can make more money later.

    11. “Our economy” doesn’t have “needs” — individuals and businesses do. Sometimes a business needs somebody with limited skills help out in some modest way. And sometimes a person with limited skills would like to make a few extra bucks, because it’s better than being broke. The last thing either of these parties “needs” is for MollyGodiva to step in and tell them that they are forbidden to reach an arrangement that would benefit both of them.

  9. Did the economy collapse yet?

    1. The opposite. We were in collapse until January 6.

    2. The cessation of mean tweets fixed everything!

  10. Why are only White people’s taxes expected to pay for our assimilation out of existence from the third-world flooding into EVERY White country and ONLY White countries? Nobody demands that the Chinese must pay for their assimilation out of existence by breeding with millions of non-Chinese in their own country. Diversity is a code word for White Genocide.

  11. Yeah, the better option is to leave millions in poverty and do nothing. /s

    1. Billions of people live in poverty all around the world. But you don’t give a fuck, do you? You are welcome to donate your salary as you please.

      1. He doesn’t want to donate his ‘welfare’ he wants to *FORCE* you to donate yours!

        1. It’s the democrat way.

    2. Or you could not be completely ignorant on the subject in your attempt at more government control, lefty shit.

      https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/09/08/who-makes-minimum-wage/

    3. You’d rather do something and have more poverty, right shitlunches?

      But hey, you could say you were doing something.

      1. They always pull out the something must be done argument which always goes like this:

        Something must be done.
        This is something.
        Therefore this must be done.

        Okay.
        So something must be done about poverty.
        Whacking raspberrydinners in the head with a 2×4 is something.
        Therefore….

        1. “Whacking raspberrydinners in the head with a 2×4 is something.”

          That’s a jobs program I could get behind.

          1. I would pay to help fund that program.

        2. Therefore we should make certain, and hit him in the head with a steel I-beam.

      2. Obviously “doing something” to him doesn’t include CREATING an asset / produce for mankind…

        Why ‘work’ for something; just pretend to be a God and make the slave’s work in one’s honor.

    4. “Yeah, the better option is to leave millions in poverty and do nothing. /s”

      TDS-addled lefty shit here prefers people out of work as opposed to being paid a number he pulls out of his ass.
      To be expected of TDS-addles lefty shits.

    5. Yes, because having an idiotic minimum wage law and doing absolutely nothing are the ONLY TWO OPTIONS!!!!! Because progtards believe in false binary choices.

  12. A place like Pasadena or Oakland is far more able to absorb a national minimum wage hit than a place like Fargo or Missoula.

    And the proponents of a minimum wage know this. They just don’t give a shit about anyone between I-5 and I-95.

    1. And you just hit the nail on the head there.

    2. The purpose is to destabilize the system. Not make it better.

    3. Even with WA state, where we currently have a $13.69 minimum wage, the Nikita to absorb that is much easier in Seattle, than Omak, or Quincy.

      1. ‘Ability’, not ‘Nikita’. What a completely unintuitive autocorrect.

  13. Essentially, in this view, everyone making below $15 an hour would get a raise, and no one would lose a job.

    And everyone making above $15 an hour would be loaded onto railcars and shipped off to labor camps to learn the error of their ways.

  14. “In a bombshell report released yesterday, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) came to the shocking conclusion that raising the federal minimum wage to $15 would cost the economy more than a million jobs.”

    Low-ball guess. Like any government claim, double and do it again.

  15. Too bad you guys only care about mean tweets.

  16. It just doesn’t take aim at the wealthy. John Stossel did a report on how it impacted small businesses like car washes in NY City. As a result, many automated effectively putting people out of work on who depended on those jobs.
    It’s a slippery slope. The loss of jobs during a pandemic will continue to impact the economy.

  17. Did I miss the libertarian argument against a minimum wage at all?

    1. This article clearly wasn’t focused on the libertarian aspects of minimum wage. Which makes sense, because even the current minimum wage goes against pure libertarian beliefs.

      1. …And the U.S. Constitution (“The People’s” law over their government).

      2. “wasn’t focused on the libertarian aspects”

        Yeah that’s the point. This is supposed to be a libertarian publication.

  18. The reality is that not only will arbitrarily higher wages imposed by the government cause immediate job losses, it will cause the technology meant to replace people happen that much faster. So some people will lose their jobs the next day and then millions and millions more will lose their job a few years later once the robots and computers take their place. I don’t know how to fix whats coming…but its not by way of artificially inflating wages…I do know that.

    1. Like, that doesn’t actually happen? (See: every minimum wage increase in history on a federal or state level)

      The tech is already there, dude. There are French fry making robots already. Cheap, efficient ones that cost less than $15 an hour to operate. Why hasn’t McDonald’s replaced every fry cook in states that already have a $15 minimum wage?

      Because it doesn’t work that way.

      1. “…Because it doesn’t work that way.”

        Yes it does work that way.

      2. Do you not realize that the pace that it happens is caused by the relationship between the costs of hiring people vs the cost of buying a robot? Artificially raising the price of hiring people will cause businesses to buy robots sooner and more often.

  19. those texts were just so mean, and there was zero evidence of voter fraud.

  20. I don’t think it would affect employment. It would affect sales volume as all businesses would raise prices equally. As for fast food, you would then be paying the true cost of food. And with declining sales, you would have fewer obese. THe owners of McDonalds would not be that affected. They are all mega-millionaires. All the fast food joints here are not Mom and Pop operations. One family, possibly on the other side of the country, will own 10 -20 McDonalds. Same with car dealerships. I haven’t seen a SoCal dealership that wasn’t part of a multiple chain, sometimes with many brands.

    1. The old “the rich are rich” argument. Plenty of small business owners (and certainly many franchisees) aren’t rich. They’re trying to get rich, by providing some product or service that people want. And if you force them to pay more for labor, they will hire less, or go broke, or not start the business in the first place.

    2. Some one doesn’t know how franchises work.

    3. “I don’t think it would affect employment…”

      That’s because you’re an econ-ignoramus.

  21. “Sen. Bernie Sanders (I–Vt.), a longtime backer of raising the federal minimum, for example, has been known to cite figures from a study that assumed that raising the wage to $15 an hour would result in no net changes to employment. Essentially, in this view, everyone making below $15 an hour would get a raise, and no one would lose a job.”

    On Bernie’s planet, you can more than double the labor costs for businesses employing low-skilled workers without any of those businesses having to close or layoff half their workforce. This is why no one should take seriously anything Bernie says.

    1. You mean like his campaign volunteer who almost murdered Steve Scalise?

  22. Remember in our economics classes when we heard thatnan increase in the price of something decreases the quantity demanded, except for labor? Me neither.

    1. That stent happen when you need the same quantity of something in order to continue functioning.

      Increasing the cost of staple goods doesn’t change their demand. Labor is a staple good.

      1. “…Increasing the cost of staple goods doesn’t change their demand. Labor is a staple good.”

        Bullshit twice.

        1. That guy needs to spend some time with the Yang Gang.

          Also, way to fail the lesson on elasticity, fuckstick.

          1. And marginal changes, like robotics.

  23. The whole point is to put small businesses out of business and to put people out of work. The Democrats believe that standards of livings need to come down and that people need to consume less. That can be readily accomplished by making them poorer.

    1. Because small business owners tend to be Republicans. And unemployable people with no skills and no future need Democrats.

      1. Listen to the shit Janet Yellen has been saying. They want to bring back the businesses they’re destroying. However, those businesses will be made dependent on government programs and will be run by the minority du jour.

  24. If anyone can live as a single on $7.25/hr, show us all HOW!!!

    So, we are asked to leave millions in poverty so that millions of others can continue to live in poverty.

    The value of labor is being cheapened by the day and Andrew Yang’s solution sounds better every day. We can see what the future holds for labor. Do we suffer under it or take advantage of it?

    1. HOW? Good grief the self-entitled ‘victimize me’ mentality is off the hooks… Sleep in your car, bath in a ditch and when you get tired of that lifestyle DECIDE to change something about YOU instead of complaining endlessly that no-one will GIVE you something.

    2. That depends on how you define ‘poverty’. The Federal government sets the poverty rate at $12,760 a year for an individual. A full time job at minimum wage would net that individual $15,080. The problem is, most minimum wage jobs are not full time, and were never intended to be. That seems to be the key point our elected officials are missing.

      1. “…That seems to be the key point our elected officials are missing.”

        They should go on “missing it”, and fuck off.

    3. and yet people are wealthier than ever before in human history

    4. “…Andrew Yang’s solution sounds better every day…”

      Only to econ-ignoramuses.

  25. The federal government has no business determining wages.

    1. ^EXACTLY +1000000000

  26. There you go again.

    1. Somebody made an intelligent comment and lost you?

  27. CBO says — Democrats are stupid.

  28. Minimum wage should be raised, but it should not be doubled. If we pick a year like 1961, when minimum wage was a dollar an hour, and apply the government’s formula for inflation, we find that minimum wage should be around $8.65, well above what our government declares as minimum. If Congress had been smart about this issue, and had raised the wage based on inflation over the decades, we would not be having this particular battle, but they chose not to.

    1. They’re not doubling it overnight. It’s parceled out over the course of years. The point is not to have to relitigate the MW increase every year.

      1. Easy.
        Cut legal M/W to the real one of $0.00 and leave it there.

        1. ^ +1000000000000

    2. The Government has NO BUSINESS stamping price-tags on their ‘slaves’. What ever happened to “land of the free?”

      Especially the ‘Federal’ government.

    3. “Minimum wage should be raised…”

      Fuck off, slaver.

  29. Hahahaha.

    This will be fun.

    Every single time a minimum wage goes up, conservatives cry about lost jobs.

    And with very few exceptions, they’re been wrong.

    I’m sure someone will point out how in 1980-something blah blah blah and ignore the 1,000 other times the minimum wage rose (at federal or state levels) and job growth wasn’t affected. So whatever.

    1. I don’t think that’s accurate. There is always mixed results. Some jobs are lost, some people get more money. In the end it’s usually a wash.

    2. Funny how everyone these days are complaining about “automation” taking all the jobs. As if a job has become some kind of rare-earth metal like gold.

      You people compulsively lobbying the Power to Steal from others will work ANY ANGLE you can dream up and flip from one angle to the other and still FAIL to make any sense.

      A swindler crook. You want more VALUE why don’t you considering ADDING VALUE instead of trying so hard to STEAL IT!

    3. Except we don’t know how many more jobs there would have been if the minimum wage hadn’t been hiked.

      And how much it gets hiked has a big effect on how smoothly businesses can adapt to it.

    4. “…And with very few exceptions, they’re been wrong…”
      You.
      Are.
      Full.
      Of.
      Shit.

  30. Given the choice between doing the wrong thing and nothing, politicians will choose the wrong thing every time.

    1. Exercising illegitimate Power so they can feel arrogantly important like a Gov-God dictator. Barbaric and Uncivilized Power Battles. It’s hard to be happy about being the King of the Mountain if you can’t push the peasants around a bit.

  31. Enough jibber jabber. I want to know if all the new illegal immigration leads to cheaper Mexican butt sex. Being a libertarian and all.

    1. Biden is greatly increasing the number of “refugee” “families” allowed in, so presumably that will greatly increase the number of Mexican boys available.

      1. This whole thing was never about anything else other than white supremacy, was it?

        1. You guys have had a hard time coming up with new shtick since the CRA. It was ~60 years ago, dude. Find another boogie man.

          1. So people think there should always be a policy of deporting human beings from south of Texas, for all time, no matter the economic conditions, and you think it’s about job demand?

        2. Mexico is a race?

          1. Who said race?

            And you constantly say white supremacist stuff, so I don’t need to ask you.

            1. Oh really? What ‘white supremacist’ stuff have I said?

        3. “This whole thing was never about anything else other than white supremacy, was it?”

          It had nothing to do with that, but as a fucking lefty ignoramus, we can safely assume this asswipe is ignorant of that.

  32. They don’t care about low wage people, who vote for them anyway. They want the unions of teachers and gov-workers.

    The contracts for those groups contain escalators: ‘Our wages start x-percent higher than the legal min.’ Raise that, it jacks us up automatically.

    1. In practice, it jacks up the whole wage scale for all workers, not just the unionized ones. No one is going to take on the extra work of being Assistant Manager if they can make the same money just working the counter.

      1. Sorry, but most small businesses don’t have the money to pay the increased minimum wage, much less increase all the other people already making more than that to compensate – that’s just retarded thinking. Profit margins are not that large on most businesses to be able to accommodate that.

        & note – in businesses where they can accommodate overall increases in wages and keep moving forward, they already pay a great deal more than minimum wage for high skilled workers such as the financial sectors.

      2. No it forces small business owners like me to decrease my own compensation and income to the company while I try and figure out if my customers can absorb a 20-200% increase in labor costs so that I can try to maintain my 30% margin an actually turn a profit after taxes.

  33. Nothing about the political theater in Congress today?
    Well:

    “Lead impeachment manager Jamie Raskin tearfully recalls Capitol riot: ‘This cannot be the future of America'”
    […]
    “Addressing lawmakers during former President Donald Trump’s second impeachment trial, Raskin explained that his younger daughter, Tabitha, and son-in-law, Hank — the husband of Raskin’s oldest daughter — had accompanied him to Capitol Hill to witness the counting of electoral votes on January 6.
    Just a day earlier, Raskin’s family had buried his 25-year-old son, Tommy.
    Raskin recalled that Tabitha and Hank had asked him if it would be safe, and he said he had told them, “Of course it should be safe; this is the Capitol.” The Maryland Democrat then choked up as he talked being separated from the pair as the pro-Trump mob breached the Capitol complex and spurred hours of chaos…”

    Not above waving a bloody shirt in his drama-queen performance is he?
    Fuck off, weenie.

    1. My guess is they’re not covering it because they know it’s complete nonsense, but they’re not allowed to say that.

  34. Holy shit we got a lot of new fifty centers for this article.

  35. Amazing how a Libertarian Magazine which is all about hating the government… fully agrees with and supports a government-made analysis as gospel.

    But hey, anything to keep people on slave wages, right? Making money comes first before everything else. And fuck workers in the process.

    1. “…But hey, anything to keep people on slave wages, right? Making money comes first before everything else. And fuck workers in the process.”

      Poor little asswipe here just can’t seem to keep a job. Those bosses expect this shit to show up on time and leave his ‘phone over there, and it’s just so unfair, right, asswipe?
      Fuck off, slaver.

    2. So stop working for “the man”; And offer your VALUE as “the man”.
      You have ZERO excuse to STEAL from “the man” whatever you *think* you deserve by Gov-Gun-Point just because “the man” gave you a job.

    3. It’s obvious you know nothing about libertarianism, because in a fully libertarian society, economic decisions would be just as free as social decisions so there would never be any government mandated minimum wage ever.

      Idiot.

      1. Except the Employers can easily give low, low wages and workers would have to shut up and accept it. Why would any other workplace offer more? Or even just the minimum amount more that barely makes a difference?

        Idiot.

        1. Well, asshole, I’m going to assume you have ZERO (That’s like NONE) experience in hiring anyone; you sound like some whiny shit who never held a job, right?
          Not because you are smart enough to learn anything (and with your 6th-grade education, that’s a pretty good bet), but employers are selling products to their customers (think about that real hard, if you can). Those customers want to buy that product at the lowest price they can.
          OK, we’ll give you a while to catch up……………………………………………………………………….
          Got that?
          Now the employer who hires the better workers at a higher wage gets the product out the door at a lower cost, and a higher profit.
          Need a couple of days to process that, you steaming pile of lefty shit?

          1. That’s easy to manipulate. Just have the businesses either work together to keep prices low, or do underhanded practices to put other competitors out of business.

            What? You say they can’t do that? Actually, in Libertarian society, they totally can. Cause you struck down all the laws putting regulations on how businesses are allowed to run, like Price Fixing.

            But I suppose that’s a bonus in your eyes. Cause all Libertarians care about is their self-aggrandized greed at any measure, and fuck any laws that say you can’t get rich and fuck people over in the process. You would LITERALLY tear food out of poor people’s mouths because they would DARE to use Welfare or food stamps despite being disabled or unable to work.

            You don’t give a shit about the economy or people. You just care about getting more money. So FUCK. YOU.

            1. And in a libertarian society no one forces people into those jobs. So you could quit and when the company can find no labor, it goes out of business.

              It’s telling that rather than allow people to make their own decisions regarding the hypothetical problem you describe, you immediately think the government would need to step in.

              On reality, you leftists and inner city dwellers have become so lazy you won’t even vote with your feet or pocket book, let alone send your kids to school each day. You just sit around expecting the world around you to conform to your wants. And that’s why your destroying our cities with debt in the never winnable race of free money against laziness.

              1. Its not about the government stepping in or not, it’s about realizing the reality that businesses owners or employers don’t give two shits about you.

                If they can get away with paying the absolute minimum amount of money to you, they can and will. And then expect you to be grateful for it.

                And Libertarians think this is perfectly ok because you technically gave “consent”, without fucking realizing that being forced into a terrible choice can be just as bad as having no choice at all.

                1. “…Its not about the government stepping in or not, it’s about realizing the reality that businesses owners or employers don’t give two shits about you…”

                  Miss your mommy, asswipe? Grow up and get a job; it’s not anyone’s job to ‘care about you’.

            2. “…You don’t give a shit about the economy or people. You just care about getting more money. So FUCK. YOU.”

              Neither do you. The only thing you care about is blaming others for your pathetic existence, loser.
              Grow up, or fuck off and die; I certainly don’t care about whiny asswipes like you.

  36. Well it was only about 30 years ago that we mandated yacht builders make a living wage and look how well that turned out. Oh right, that was fuck the employee while trying to fuck the rich. I’m sure this time it will be completely different.

    1. I miss the day’s when the most human VALUE to society one could create was directly equivalent to their wealth. Ya know; like the fundamentals of rewards and consequences the very foundation of human’s learning’s and progress.

      Nope; Now-a-days it’s all about ‘identity’ politics and Gov-Guns. Who’s rich who’s poor, who’s black and who’s white, who’s female and who’s male, who’s Democrat and who’s Republican.

      Screw all those childish manipulative tactics.

      You create what other’s want/need and you get to purchase what someone else has created that you want/need. End of story. If you want to be a crook beggar go be a crook beggar — but don’t show up at other peoples DOOR with a GUN demanding them to hand over their ‘creation’ because you’re such an arrogant spoiled twit you think you’re entitled to it because you haven’t done anything but be lazy and play ‘identity’ games.

      1. “I miss the day’s when the most human VALUE to society one could create was directly equivalent to their wealth. Ya know; like the fundamentals of rewards and consequences the very foundation of human’s learning’s and progress.”

        Um, when were those days? When have wealth and a person’s ‘value’ to society ever been more than weakly correlated? For every person that gains wealth by producing something of value, there is someone that gains wealth through inheritance, the effect of monopoly power or cronyism, by manipulating rules and finding loopholes, by producing things that cause as much harm as good (or more harm than good, i.e. tobacco), etc. And that doesn’t even speak to the obvious advantages in obtaining a return on investment simply by having more capital than other people to start with.

        Capitalism is like democracy. To paraphrase and appropriate Churchill’s comment on democracy, capitalism is the worst form of economics except for all of those others that people have tried. Like Churchill in reference to democracy, we should recognize that capitalism is not perfect and does not automatically yield the best outcomes. There is no “Invisible Hand” guiding the free market any more than electrons are guided through wires in a circuit by some magical force intent on serving us benevolently.

        1. 1) The USA isn’t a “democracy” — there’s the problem you failed to assert. It’s a Constitutional Union of Republican States. Of course [WE] mob rulers of democracy (and their ‘pretend’ government) has corrupted, invaded and conquered the USA.

          2) There is no such thing as “crony capitalism”. Crony is government *Powers* used on trade and “capitalism” infers a free-from Gov-Guns market. It has and will always be “crony socialism”

          You’re only confusion is stemmed from reading too much lefty propaganda and not noticing its as non-sense. And the fact you’ve never seen, “when were those days?” leads me to believe you probably live in a Democratic Box. Perhaps my “day’s” are my own perspective of living in a Republican State.

          And recent day’s biggest curse is ‘Federal’ over-reach.

          1. 1) Was Churchill talking about the United States specifically with his comment? No? Then he was speaking about the general concept of people voting in elections for those that will make law and implement policy. He wasn’t trying to address those that would be pedantic enough to cry about the US being a republic every time someone uses the word “democracy”. Everyone that doesn’t get a bug up their ass accepts that, the overwhelming majority of the time, people use the word democracy very broadly, in reference to any form of government where citizens vote. You know, consent of the governed and all that?

            If the debate is over different ways to structure government within the broad category of democracy, then distinguishing between a “Constitutional Union of Republican States” and a parliamentary government, federations, confederations, or whatever becomes important. But only then.

            2) When the regular libertarian commenters here try and say that failures of the market are due to “crony capitalism” rather than “true”, free-market capitalism, are you there to tell them that it doesn’t exist? Or do you reserve your disagreement for people like me that read too much “lefty propaganda” and live in a “Democratic Box”?

            The whole point of using the phrase “crony capitalism” is to point out that people with wealth in the private sector (capitalists) can influence people in government to their own advantage and to the detriment of their competitors and consumers and even third parties. The kind of pure free market you talk about doesn’t ever exist in the real world. There is simply no way for a pure free market (a “free-from Gov-Guns market”) to exist without any interaction with government, because there are always at least some laws that relate to all economic activity, in addition to how government policy affects macroeconomic variables. So, recognizing that there will always be attempts by some business people to use the levers of government to advantage their own companies and industries is essential to having a government that works for the whole of the people. There has never been a time in US history where this was not an issue.

            I am a physics teacher. At the level of physics I teach, we ignore friction and air resistance all the time in problems, assume circular orbits for planets and satellites, and other simplifications. This allows us to look at core relationships without getting bogged down in minutia. It is essential for teaching and learning, but it is also only an approximation. Any of my students that go on to become scientists or engineers will learn the limitations of the simple models we use in introductory physics courses (we address them at times ourselves) and are going to stop making those simplifying assumptions and deal with complex systems as they are.

            Government policy has to deal with economics in the real world, not in some simplified model version of the world where your kind of pure free market lives.

            1. “I am a physics teacher.”

              As a cobbler, you should stick to your last, rather than make an ass of yourself in public.
              Fuck off, slaver

        2. You’re right to point out the double fallacy:

          What the market does is “natural.”

          We should live by what’s “natural.”

          Both are simply incorrect assertions.

          1. Fudk off, shitstain; you are too stupid to post here.

    2. So you’re like being serious about the plight of yacht builders?

      Do you often walk around as a caricature of libertarians?

  37. But let’s be clear about the real argument.

    You don’t like the minimum wage because it contradicts your laissez-faire ideology. It could fart unicorns and you’d still be against it.

    National economic policy affects the economy. It doesn’t have to not affect the economy in order for it to be legitimate.

    1. Let’s be clear about the REAL argument.

      You can stamp whatever price-tag on your FOREHEAD you want. What ‘right’ doesn’t anyone have to be stamping price-tags on OTHER peoples forehead????

      It’s an argument between Individual Liberty and Justice versus Tyrannical Authoritarian pretend Gods pointing Gov-Guns at people and being narcissistic bullies. Just F-OFF; that’s all!

      1. No it isn’t. You just don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. Chill out.

        1. “No it isn’t. You just don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. Chill out.”

          There’s no use engaging Tony; it’s not like anyone would ever get a response that wasn’t mendacious.
          It’s just worth pointing out that asswipe has no idea regarding the issue s/he’s addressing

    2. Does it have to increase unemployment?

      1. It’s not an employment measure at all. Employment goes up and down with economic conditions.

        This is about making more stable economic conditions.

        1. “This is about making more stable economic conditions.”

          There’s no use engaging Tony; it’s not like anyone would ever get a response that wasn’t mendacious.
          It’s just worth pointing out that asswipe has no idea regarding the issue s/he’s addressing

        2. And current labor costs are “economic conditions” you duuuuuumbass.

    3. There are both NAP and more utilitarian concerns which never seem to be addressed.

      But if a MW hike weren’t such a naked payoff to a Democratic special interest group then I don’t think it would generate quite so much heat among the Team Red partisans. It’s the other side of the mirror from cap gains / corp tax cuts: something one party always pursues once they’re in power for the express interest of pissing off their opponents.

      1. You think McDonald’s cashiers are a powerful lobby?

        1. “You think McDonald’s cashiers are a powerful lobby?”

          No, most everyone here is quite convinced you’re a fucking lefty econ-ignoramus who, as demonstrated here, has no idea what the issue involves.
          Go back to fucking your cousin and leave the discussion to the adults:
          “…We often think Tony, Shrike, and ChemJeff are being dishonest–especially when they don’t seem to learn anything from having their arguments shredded and smeared in their faces everyday for years. But the fact that they don’t seem to learn anything–knowledge wise or in terms of critical thinking–may be consistent with the hypothesis that they’re just not that bright. And we shouldn’t necessarily assume that Binion, Boehm, or Britschgi are fundamentally different from them.
          Maybe the reason they try to make us feel is because they’re incapable of making us think. It is beyond their capabilities…”

        2. It would be troubling that in the decade plus you’ve been posting here you still don’t know a thing about prevailing wage laws if you were an actual person and not a sock.

          Davis-Bacon has been around for 90 years. Catch up already.

  38. Unskilled labor is a commodity. Raise the price of a commodity, reduce the demand for it. Why do you think fast-food restaurants are now using kiosks for people to order and stores are trying to push customers to use self-scan (ugh) instead of cashiers?

    1. So we can change the technological paradigm of an industry, and all we have to do is make a single change to minimum wage law?

      Wow, government is even better than the market at producing new things.

      1. Asswipe here simply hasn’t the mental ability to separate his fantasies from reality, and this post proves it.
        No, asswipe, the government is better at putting people out of work than any other dynamic.
        I fully accept that understanding that is far, far, beyond your mental abilities (see Ken’s comments above), but as a fucking econ-ignoramus asswipe, you should stuff it up your ass so your head has company.

      2. It dawns on me that explaining econ to Tony is similar to explaining, oh, the physical concept of leverage to a 3 year old; the mental capacity is simply not there to understand the issue.
        What you get in response when the ‘answer’ is wrong is exactly what we get from Tony: some logical fallacy or outright lie.
        Given that Tony is incapable of understanding the issue, s/he lashes out at those who point out that Tony is full of shit.
        So adding to Ken’s insight (above) I think we need to accept that Tony is not only incapable of separating his/her fantasy from reality, but extremely angry when that failure is made clear; incapable of learning.
        Asswipe, you are too fucking stupid to learn.

      3. The fact that this is what you took away from his post shows there’s literally something wrong with your brain.

        Not only did you miss his point, you improperly comprehended the individual words.

        I’m not joking when I say you are one of the dumbest people I’ve ever dealt with. I flag all your posts just in the hopes you finally get banned so I don’t have to keep skipping past your worthless thoughts in every damn thread.

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  40. The plan for the new American Dictatorship is proceeding flawlessly.

  41. Nothing says “I’m retarded” like support for a minimum wage.

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  43. With all the brilliant people commenting about the attempts to raise the minimum wage, the key reason is not to help people that get paid the minimum wage. In many Union Contracts the initial salary and some salaries thereafter are tied to a multiple of the minimum wage.

  44. Yes, surely it will affect everyone, some negative and some positively, if you are worker that will be effective positively, it could be a fave

  45. The problem with equality for all in wages is it gives higher wages to those who have not earned it. IE—“minimum wage should be 15 an hour.” So the high school kid should make the grade of 30K a year. With no set skills to deserve it. And that is what the Marxist wants—equal for all regardless of effort to advance your skill set. The Marxist wants you to be able to pay your rent in a nice apartment, have the ability to buy a new car and live as well with no effort put forth as the tradesman or degree grad.

    The problem with Marxist policy, as shown without exception, is it fails. The entire country does equal out—in an abject state of poverty. Need I point? All Soviet Union countries of yesteryear and Venezuela of today. It fails—repeatedly and without exception.
    Even Karl’s nicer brother Socialism in the end fails. Proof needed? All the bankrupt countries in Europe who can’t afford their handouts from cradle to the grave. Our own trillions of dollars of debt.

    If we continue this mantra of “equal for all” not matched by equal effort then we will make our way to my own predicted work which I was hoping would stay fiction and looks as if soon it will not be. (subtle and inconvenient book plug below)

    Charles Hurst. Author of THE SECOND FALL. The offbeat Armageddon that may be coming soon.

  46. Ugh! The RHINO Republicans.

    One only needs to look at Lincoln and his jobs-killing, minimum wage constitutional amendment to see the obvious: American African have gone from mind-blowing 100% employment pre-1860 to a miserable 85% employment of today.

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