This Gun Shop Says It Won't Do Business With Biden Voters

Tech companies should have the same freedom to choose their customers.

A Michigan-based ammunition shop is refusing to sell to any customer who voted for President Joe Biden in the 2020 election. "We've had a few potential customers call this morning to ask why they have to check a box stating they did not vote for Joe Biden in order to purchase our ammunition," Fenix Ammunition tweeted yesterday morning.

The answer: "Joe Biden ran on a campaign built on the most radical gun control platform a major party candidate has ever had, including banning the online sale of ammunition." This, says Fenix, is "essentially, a plan to bankrupt our company."

In a series of follow-up tweets, the company stressed that it was perfectly willing to give up potential sales to people who voted for Biden. "We're dead serious," Fenix tweeted. "We don't want your money, and you shouldn't want us to have it because we're going to use it to make more ammo, sell it to the citizenry, and do everything in our power to prevent Joe Biden's administration from usurping the rights of Americans."

"We have no problem talking to Biden voters and educating them on what they did, but they have to be willing to acknowledge their ignorance at the very least," it continued. "We're not going to sit here and debate with you. We're a 2A company and these are our first principles."

Fenix Ammunition's announcement has provoked a wave of positive attention from the right. Many are applauding the company for sticking up for its beliefs and declining to do business with people it sees as a threat to its business model.

"Private company," tweeted perennial MAGA gadfly Jack Posobiec, the implication being that because Fenix is private, it can do what it wants.

He's right, of course. Fenix is perfectly within its rights to reject customers who voted for Biden, or for any other reason related to a person's politics.

So is Twitter. And YouTube. And Facebook. And Reddit. And so on…

Yet when it comes to these private companies rejecting customers based on their ideological beliefs and political statements, Posobiec and many, many others on the right have been whining and objecting nonstop. They insist it violates their rights, somehow. They champion proposals to force these private actors to carry speech they disagree with and cater to customer bases they find objectionable. They support federal action to punish private businesses for not being politically "neutral."

So which is it when private companies get political—a brave and respectable act, or something that should be totally disallowed and result in anyone who tries it getting destroyed?

Conservatives can't have it both ways.

This sort of blatant hypocrisy is nothing new, of course. Both the right and the left seem to think that people discriminating to their team's benefit (or the other team's detriment) should be allowed while the other side doing it shouldn't even be legal. And I don't expect that pointing out the moral and intellectual bankruptcy of this stance will change many a partisanship-stunted mind, alas.

As for us libertarians, however, we'll just be over here supporting free speech, free enterprise, and freedom of association no matter the underlying politics of the people exercising these rights, from tech execs who shun associating with certain shades of right-wing thought to the firearms and ammunition peddlers who won't sell to Biden supporters.

Comments

[A Thinking Mind]

I can call out the braintrusts behind social media for pretending to gatekeep against "misinformation," when really they're trying to help facilitate propaganda by claiming statements they don't like are untruthful. It's disingenuous and even hypocritical.

I see nothing disingenuous or hypocritical about this, though it's still annoyingly smug. But if they alienate some customers, that's a choice they're making, perhaps taking the risk that the publicity makes up for it.

[CE]

Chasing out half your customers is always a bad idea.
Though in this case it's probably less than half.

[mpercy]

One of my friends, gay and a Democrat voter, just purchased a handgun and even go a concealed carry permit. I added him to my friendly 2A mailing list. Almost immediately he asked me to stop sending him that stuff, presumably it hurt his political feelings.

I'm not sure how he is going to reconcile his voting habits with his new-found gun-owning status. Maybe he's looking forward to being forced to turn in his gun? Hard to say.

[mpercy]

Was thinking of giving him an NRA membership and sending him the subscription for America's 1st Freedom Magazine that come with it.

[Rock Lobster]

You should. I'll bet you he hides the magazine under his mattress and denies reading it out of shame.

He'll enjoy the guilty perversion that normality has become.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Sounds like your friend is actually arming up to shoot you once he gets the order.

[Tronald_Dump]

You’re STILL projecting all your fears onto others, you sad little piss baby.

Didn’t your psych tell you take your meds on the reg? Yeah, she did.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Hi, Jason! Still alone and seeking the attention of owls for comfort in Flagstaff?

[Rossami]

Probably a lot less than half. And more than offset by the free publicity.

[Mark Thrust, Sexus Ranger]

A lot less.

[Seamus]

Less than half? It's probably less than 5%.

[docduracoat]

That’s why I am amazed at any of these corporations Kowtow to the left wing screechers.
Just look at Disney firing Gina for daring to mention the holocaust in a tweet.
When her co star, Pedro did the exact same thing and the media ignored it.
Now I have canceled my Disney+ subscription and apparently so have millions of other people.
And the only reason I subscribed to it was to watch that show, the Mandalorian
The famous quote is “conservatives buy sneakers, too”.
All of these companies have no problem alienating the conservative half of their customer base.
I don’t get it.

[Echospinner]

DIS has a consensus rating of BUY.

https://www.marketbeat.com/stocks/NYSE/DIS/price-target/

Drive it down to the $150 range and I would look at more shares.

[ananimasu]

Not when you get a massive wave of free advertising and Biden voters can just check the stupid box anyway

[Hank Phillips]

The Gee-Oh-Pee threatened to coerce about half the voters--the females. Even Ireland has quit trying to force women into involuntary labor in "our duty to the Party." Fascist Argentina, another nominal pool of papist true believers, has also jumped off the girl-bullying bandwagon of Comstockism. Republican infiltrators here will of course blame chink hackers, not their own superstitious stupidity for losing. But the more pressing concern is that the Second Amendment protects our nuclear arsenal against Kleptocracy enemies within. Let's keep it that way.

[Strategerist]

Except it isn't really half their customers. Most of their buyers are Trump voters, I would bet.

[De Oppresso Liber]

When you start feeling like basic facts are political, triggering, or personally attacking you, it might be time to engage in a little self reflection.

[sparkstable]

When non-Communists started to think that basic facts like "people like me are sent to the gulag" were somehow connected to the politics of the Soviet Union... perhaps they should have begun to self-reflect.

[R Mac]

You mean like the Hunter Biden laptop story?

[JesseAz]

When you dont know who makes one of the largest military vehicles of the last decade, you should stop pretending you're in the military.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Jesse, the forever coward, has been offered many many times an easy way to confirm I am who I say I am. Jesse repeatedly disappears after these offers, because he is a lying coward who would rather live with the stories in his head than know the truth. This applies to nearly everything.

[JesseAz]

Lol. A coward because either won't fly to your mothers basement? You're free to post who you are. I could even get someone to do a verification of service on the name. Instead you hide behind a keyboard you'll never leave.

You are stolen Valor. Deal with it.

[De Oppresso Liber]

you know what the bet is, Jesse. Don't try to be revisionist now, again, or I will link the many comment chains in which I make this exact offer, and you disappear instead of answering.

The offer is simple, and biased heavily in your favor:

Nominate a neutral third party, agree to any $ amount of your choice 1:1, leave the board forever when I prove to the third that I am exactly who I say I am.

That's it. No need for lies about flying anywhere, fuck boy.

[Mother's Lament]

Lol, you're so full of horseshit.

I have a dozen times taken you up on your challenge and you've ghosted the thread.

[Mother's Lament]

Here DOL:
I don't believe in any of your claims. I do not believe you're a small business owner, nor do I believe you're a high-placed federal civil servant, I don't believe that you served in the special forces and I don't believe you work in tech.

[Bruce D]

Here's an easy way: in what units did you serve, and where? What was your "job"? What stands for job?

[Bruce D]

Also, when?

[JesseAz]

And I've never disappeared you pathetic twit. I've responded to each retarded offer.

[De Oppresso Liber]

https://reason.com/2021/01/06/a-dem-sweep-in-georgia-election-could-pave-way-for-trillions-in-new-federal-spending/#comment-8676391

[De Oppresso Liber]

This one contains 4 different instances of me catching you in lies and you doing the disappearing act when presented with sources that directly contradict your lies. To top it off, you stop responding to that thread too.

https://reason.com/2021/01/06/trump-to-capitol-rioters-we-love-you-youre-very-specialbut-go-home/#comment-8679238

[De Oppresso Liber]

Here I offer you $10,000. You disappear instead.

https://reason.com/2021/01/11/ron-paul-says-hes-been-locked-out-of-facebook/#comment-8693759

[De Oppresso Liber]

Here, Jesse decides that I was not lying about being a small business owner after all. Of course, no apology.

https://reason.com/2020/04/22/heres-why-rep-justin-amash-opposes-the-cares-act/#comment-8223423

[Mother's Lament]

I've seen him respond several times and then you disappear.

[Mark Thrust, Sexus Ranger]

Fine, prove it.

[Gene Poole]

...and to nearly everyone, I dare say.

[CryHavok]

You are stolen valor.

You have refused to give basic non-personal information about your time in SF.

Everyone knows their team number(s).

I was on 192, 1330, 1323, 7214 in my SF career. I went to SFAS and was selected 20April2004.

You can see me on VETTV episode 3 of “Veterans Laughing Together.”

Now what team/mos/years and I can confirm it without you giving your name up front.

I spent 2012 to 2015 as Operations For SWMG; I can easily find out and confirm everything.

But you won’t give common info; therefore you are a liar as stolen valor.

[De Oppresso Liber]

You are doxxing yourself. With one of my team numbers and the info I have already given, I can be found. I'm not exposing my business or family to the lunatics in here. I regularly receive death threats here.

If you want to be the neutral 3rd, then great. But first jesse needs to agree to leave the board forever when he loses.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Preserving online anonymity is stolen valor? Sounds like something a non diver would say.

[ElvisIsReal]

Yep. Plenty of stuff on there every single day that is verifiably untrue. Think Russiagate. Anybody who thinks it's about "Truth" also loved Big Brother.

[Brandybuck]

I've seen hate getting shutdown, but never seen any truth getting shutdown. The problem is that too many on the Right can't speak what they see to the be the truth without wrapping it in layers and layers of hate. I saw it in a friend who posted an angry diatribe who got it taken down. I expressed the same opinion but without the hate filled rhetoric, and mine stayed up. But to my friend it was evidence that libertarians were being shutdown. They are not. Just the hateful conspiracy mongering libertarians who seem unable to stop advocating the use of woodchippers.

Yeah, I advocate the use of woodchippers on politicians. But only here on Reason where I know it's okay. NOT on Facebook. Sheesh, doing that would be stupid.

And of course, all that conspiracy bullshit that the election was stolen is demonstrably false.

[Frank Jarding]

Oh thank Christ. I thought they might be using a completely arbitrary standard to shut down speech they don't like, but it turns out they're only shutting down "hate" speech. I was almost worried for a second, but now I want to taste that sweet, sweet Nazi boot and worship authority like a pathetic, sniveling, groveling little cunt just like you!

And of course, all that conspiracy bullshit that the election was stolen is demonstrably false.

But enough about Russiagate.

[Shay Shay Banay Nay]

LOL. Tell that to The Great Barrington Dec’s nonexistent FB page. They were filled with a bunch of hate I guess.

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

I’ve seen hate getting shutdown, but never seen any truth getting shutdown.

The Hunter Biden laptop story turned out to be true...and at no point was anything remotely like "hate speech". Similarly, citing the evidence in the Kyle Rittenhouse case, which was deemed forbidden by Facebook. And if we drag Twitter into this we could do it all day.

[Ben of Houston]

There is also the fact that the this is one ammunition company. To compare, a small oligopoly of Big Tech companies have a near-total control of online communication, and they are openly colluding to control online communications.

What's fine for one company to do becomes devastating when a trust does it, essentially banning you from business.

That's why we have anti-trust laws.
It's not complicated.

[MasterThief]

This is correct. I can recognize that they are within their rights to do this. I just think it is a really shitty thing to do even if the idiot liberal gun owner doesn't realize he voted to chip away at the 2nd amendment. In a sense, I think refusing to sell arms and ammunition to someone through discriminatory practices is, in spirit, a 2A violation (of course private company vs. Gov makes it legal.) As good as it feels to stick it to the assholes who voted in the bad government we're seeing, I do condemn this action and would strongly consider buying my ammo elsewhere.
Now, in relation to the tech companies. They are a colluding oligarchy who control the means of mass communication from person to person. That they are scrubbing all sorts of nonviolent ideas from one side while allowing everything from the other is chilling. It IS big brother. No thoughtcrime or speech crimes allowed. Google itself buries or refuses to link to information critical of the left. They might be "free" companies but what they are doing doesn't respect the rights of a free people

[StackOfCoins]

In a sense, I think refusing to sell arms and ammunition to someone through discriminatory practices is, in spirit, a 2A violation (of course private company vs. Gov makes it legal.)

Those retarded Biden voters can go to another ammo shop, or they can lie on the form if they need ammo so badly. No one's rights are violated here. They are not required to sell ammo to anybody. They do it by God's good grace and the need to make a profit.

[Ben of Houston]

It might not be a legal violation, but it is contrary to the spirit of the amendment, at least.

[Bruce D]

It may be more productive to propagandize the liberals buying ammo by including pro-gun, pro-freedom literature or brochure in with their purchase.

[Fkthepostoffice]

Social media companies blocking "misinformation" isn't just disingenuous and hypocritical, it's slanderous too. Twitter claimed NYPost violated a hacked content rule on the Hunter Biden story they published. Twitter insinuated potentially criminal behavior that never occured, to spike a story they didn't like. They got a bunch of people thinking NYPost were a Russian hacking outfit based on a flat out lie.

[Dr. Ed 2]

BUT if they were selling 90% of the ammo in the country, then it would be a different issue.

[Gieringer]

No one has the right to demand that others reveal how they've voted. That's the whole idea behind the secret ballot.
Neither for that matter should gun stores be demanding whether customers use controlled substances. Of course, that's the fault of government regulations, not the stores. But then many store owners support the NRA, which has a nasty record of supporting tough penalties for drugs but not weapons offenses.

[Myron J. Poltroonian]

The Hell we don't support tough penalties for "Weapons Offenses".

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

the NRA, which has a nasty record of supporting tough penalties for drugs but not weapons offenses

There are valid criticisms to be made about the NRA, but your claim here is what's known as "bullshit".

[DarrenM]

Everyone has the right to demand how you voted. That's the whole idea behind free speech. You have no obligation to tell them.

[docduracoat]

An ammunition company is different from giant social media companies.
The social media companies are the modern public square.
Blocking conservatives from the public square is a first amendment isolation even if they are not actually a government agency.
They are doing the bidding of the Democrat party and blocking Democrats from even hearing the conservative side of the conversation.
When conservatives went and started their own social media company, the globalists blocked it right off the Internet.
It seems no different than a private company saying they own the public square and only approved persons may use it for political speech

[buybuydandavis]

I call out ENB and Reason for supporting the crony capitalist liability exemption of CDA 230 for social media.

Let them exert editorial control if they want, but then let them have the *liability*, of a publisher too.

Behave like a publisher, have the liability of a publisher.
Behave like a common carrier, have the liability of a common carrier.

[Pull n Pray]

If the shop had a monopoly on ammunition, then ENB would have a coherent point. But they don't. You can buy the exact same product from hundreds of other retailers. Meanwhile, the only two Twitter alternatives are being bullied out of existence by the tech oligarchs who want to control the flow of information.

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

LOL

Like any of us Biden voters even want to buy guns or ammo. Those are only for men overcompensating for having smaller than average genitalia, which is shameful and totally un-masculine. (OTOH a man with no penis or testicles at all, like actor Elliott Page, is perfectly normal.)

#LibertariansForGunSense

[ElvisIsReal]

A+

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

But what if this company and others stop selling to law enforcement, they certainly need ammo to stop armed right wing insurrectionist?

[TJJ2000]

Good grief you Urban dwellers are naive... You remind me of those dumb*sses who thinks Grizzly Bears and Sharks are cartoon pets on Disney.. Yum, yum --- live prey!

[billstewart]

I know Democrats who hunt. Most of them because stalking Bambi is fun (:-), others because they like eating venison.

[Vomithog]

I love the internet. But mostly because it gives idiots like yourself a platform to voice your opinion giving the rest of us enjoyment knowing you do exist outside of our normal life and common sense.

[Bruce D]

Some search terms for ya: psychology projection.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

I really wish businesses wouldn't do this. It's effective trolling, and makes for laughs, but we have to be better than the left (which is a low fucking bar right now) by welcoming everyone into the fold, constantly. The more you welcome and are tolerant of other views, the more horrible the left continues to look.

The petty tit-for-tat shit has to stop.

[Fat Mike's Drug Habit]

Or we can take the petty tit-for-tat shit to it's logical conclusion where everyone in the country is excluded from at least some economic activity, and then everyone realizes we gotta knock it off.

Taking the high ground with leftists doesn't work. They don't have principles and they do not care for principled people. They aren't going to understand how stupid this whole thing is until it bites them, personally, in the ass. Excluding them from the gun store probably isn't the most effective way to do this, but it's a start.

This is also a little different than what some other companies have done since this store is excluding people who are actively hostile to their very existence. This isn't just "I don't like your politics, fuck off" it's "you literally don't want me to exist anymore, fuck off".

[R Mac]

^

[Patrick Henry, the 2nd]

BINGO

"Conservatives can't have it both ways."

ENB - they don't want it both ways. They want it one way. But the left has decided that that way is separate but equal. Fine we'll do that too. And if they don't like it, then lets go back to together and equal. but THEY have to decide because its THEIR rules.

[Zeb]

Taking the high ground with leftists doesn’t work.

Does lowering yourself to their level work? I haven't seen a lot of reason to believe that either.
I think we do need to be better. Not because that will defeat the crazy left, but because we can still convince people in the center and non-crazy left-leaners on some points. I don't think there is any way to get any traction with the crazy left. What needs to happen is to keep more people from going there. And I don't think being shitty to people with different politics is the way to make that happen.

[Fat Mike's Drug Habit]

Historically, principled libertarian positions haven't attracted much of anyone so I'm not as hopeful as you are that the gooey middle of American politics is joining us anytime soon. And I'm not Christ, I'm not going to just turn the other cheek until I'm crucified even if people I've never met would view it as virtuous.

Also, I'm pretty sure selling this particular generation of leftists a bunch of guns and ammunition is a bad idea from a self-preservation perspective.

[Your Majesty]

"Also, I’m pretty sure selling this particular generation of leftists a bunch of guns and ammunition is a bad idea from a self-preservation perspective."

Yeah, just ask Black joggers in Braddock PA if John Fetterman having guns makes them feel better.

[Ride 'Em]

^^^Yes. This country doesn't exist in the middle. What most democrats are are Fabian Socialists. They just keep moving the target a little each year. Compromise is just agreeing with them. Obama was a clear example of making bipartisanship only what he wanted.

[Tronald_Dump]

All the lame regulars post the same stupid troll arguments over & over like a broken record. Y’all are pathetic and sad. If you have more than a hundred posts here, please get a life. You should focus on losing your virginity before you turn 60. Old maid sisters and your crypt kept mommies don’t count.

[Gene Poole]

You know, Fat, two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights do make a left. So I'm heading back to the WSWS Web site where I can be told that taking the high ground with rightists doesn't work.

[mad.casual]

So, what if the gun shop owner refused to make customers wear masks? Note: This question is a work of fiction and any resemblance to real life persons or places is purely coincidental.

In my area, I'm required to show an FOID to purchase ammunition. Additionally, every time I purchase a gun, I have to provide a reason for why I purchased it. Gun stores pretty openly encourage "None of your damn business." or "2A Bitches!" as valid answers but I/we get the purity test nonetheless. IMO, this is so far below the fold it's doesn't even rise to the level of trolling or petty. FFS, the *one* ammunition store is up front about their terms for the goods they sell to customers (or don't) and ENB is getting retarded about section 230 for multinational media conglomerates and free speech.

Call me back when a gun store takes the cash, does a background check, discovers the buyer said mean things on Twitter, cancels the sale without notice, and refunds the money minus the restocking fee.

[Ra's al Gore]

Call me back when a gun store takes the cash, does a background check, discovers the buyer said mean things on Twitter, cancels the sale without notice, and refunds the money minus the restocking fee.

Or drags their feet on refunding the money. Or retroactively cancels the sale and comes to "take back" the gun.

[mad.casual]

Well, actual tit-for-tat would be cancelling the sale without notice, taking back the gun, intimidating all the local gun shops, outdoor stores, and gun show organizers into refusing to do business with them, and leaning on the banks and credit cards to do the same.

But I'll admit that at the point where they're cancelling sales without warning because of political acts, they've moved beyond harmless trolling and into petty vengeance.

[JesseAz]

A few of the gun shops here require no masks due to needing to identify customers.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

In my area, I’m required to show an FOID to purchase ammunition. Additionally, every time I purchase a gun, I have to provide a reason for why I purchased it.

Where the hell do you live?!

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Illinois would be my guess. Been that way for decades.

[mad.casual]

Where the hell do you live?!

Apparently, in an area where people are far more petty than where you live.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

That's why I'm curious, because where I live they're quite petty.

[rbike]

Illinois requires a FOID card. When I lived there 1990-2005 I had purchased a firearm from a friend who was a licensed dealer. The FOID card was good for 2 years maybe. My question was what if I did not renew it? Would they come take my registered gun? I never renewed and nothing ever happened. I always drove over to Iowa to buy ammunition anyway. I sold the gun 10 years ago and had been gun less until this year. Now I have 3 and have made sure my wife and daughter know how to use them. Can't buy ammunition for more practice though. In Iowa you don't need any paperwork or card from the government to buy ammo and long guns. I did get a pistol owners card so that I could buy a pistol. That card also lets you walk out of any shop with any normally legally purchased gun the same day.

[rbike]

And don't wear a mask in any gun shop in Iowa. The Governor dropped the mandate last week, but none of the shops in Iowa had any signs or anything. Kind of nice to know that the authorities knew enough to leave these shops alone.

[mapol]

Any store owner, whether it be the owner of a gun shop or any other shop, for that matter, who refuses to make customers wear masks during the Covid-19 pandemic is taking his/her own life, not to mention tons of other people's lives in her hands, and putting tons and tons of lives, including neighbors, family, friends, customers, and other business owners, etc., at risk for catching Covid-19 The Covid-19 virus is extremely deadly and contagious, and there are newer variants of Covid-19 out and around that are even more contagious than the original Covid-19 virus.

I'll also add that any shop/business owner who refuses to make customers wear masks and social distance when they come into their place of business is putting his/her own business at risk for going under. Tons of other businesses have gone under as a result of the Covid-19 pandemic.

[JesseAz]

They are still better as they aren't involved in matket collusion like ENB conveniently ignores the SV companies are.

[Apollonius]

There is a practical aspect to this -- why would anyone want to arm Bidophiles?

[TJJ2000]

"The petty tit-for-tat shit has to stop."

Do you think rays of sunshine are going to fix their Gov-God tyrannical thievery mentality? Bullying doesn't end by lying down and handing over you lunch money everyday out of some delusion of 'being better' or didn't you ever get past kindergarten.

So ya; The voters using [WE] mob tactics to enact National Socialism specifically to STEAL other peoples businesses and Individual Liberty away from them through regulatory capture and complete ignorance of the U.S. Constitution

And thus dismissing the VERY purpose of government to be for protecting our Liberty or our Property then who gives a crap what the crooks want to buy with money they helped STEAL from others in the first place.

[StackOfCoins]

I think they should do it far more often. Freedom of association.

[mad.casual]

Tech companies should have the same freedom to choose their customers.

Incorrect. What we really need is a section 230 to shield gun shops from trolls. Why do you hate the internet's 1A?

[Brandybuck]

I'm all for a Second Amendment version of Section 230. But then again, I am in full favor of the currently existing Section 230. Without changes.

Also, Section 230 is not a shield from trolls. It's a shield against getting sued because trolls posted on your site. Read the section. It's short and simple.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA) is basically the Sect 230 for firearms is it not? Can't sue the makers/sellers for what their customers ultimately do with their products. Although that maybe repealed with the current partisan make up of the legislative and executive branches. Plus I think there are several lawsuits looking to have the law ruled unconstitutional; hopefully SCOTUS does right by it.

[Frank Jarding]

One minor difference is that gun manufacturers sell a physical product that leaves their sphere of control as soon as it is sold to another party, and therefore doesn't fall under any existing legal theory of vicarious or third party liability going back 500 years to English common law. And also no proprietor of web services was ever successfully sued for something someone else posted on their platform prior to the passage of The Communications Decency Act of 1996, of which section 230 is the only surviving clause, the rest having been thrown out for being blatantly unconstitutional. Good hill for bootlicking Nazis like you to die on in the name of liberty lol.

[mad.casual]

no proprietor of web services was ever successfully sued for something someone else posted on their platform prior to the passage of The Communications Decency Act of 1996

And, for probably the hundredth time, Cox and Wyden felt that this fact was wrong and drafted section 230 and the rest of the CDA specifically to force proprieters to moderate. They weren't even subtle about the fact that this was the intent.

[mad.casual]

Read the section. It’s short and simple.

So you can read? Now go try Cubby v. Compuserve and Cox and Wyden's (section 230's authors) opinions on the matter. They feel and felt that Compuserve should've been sued because they didn't moderate for trolling and lost the lawsuit. Might also go reread the 1A and S230 and find the parts where either one says Congress gets to pass a law regulating free speech and right to petition like this.

[mad.casual]

I mean, FFS, the long title of the section is "Protection For 'Good Samaritan' Blocking and Screening of Offensive Material". How ENB can pretend to give two shits about PornHub and S230 at the same time, I'll never understand.

[CE]

Hard to call it blatant hypocrisy when one side in some small way starts doing what the other side was doing it systematically on a massive scale first.

[De Oppresso Liber]

No, no racists were doing it first systematically on a massive scale, and by government force instead of private decisions.

This time, it's being done to them, though through the free market of ideas and commerce, and you all don't like it; understandable. Still, so what? If people don't like you because of the beliefs you hold, then you can not ask the government to force those people to like you.

Try reading How to make Friends and Influence People. Taking some of the advice in that book will get you much better results than continuing to cry and moan and lobby the government to force those meanies to play with you.

[mad.casual]

Try reading How to make Friends and Influence People.

If only the Jews had gotten a chance to read Dale Carnegies book before the Nazis burned it.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

What does "liking" have to do with a business transaction? Jesus fuck, what is it with you and White Excrement acting as if the adult world is like middle school?

[Frank Jarding]

It helps when your brain stopped developing when you were in middle school.

Also De Opresso Liber and whatever incarnation of White Knight we're up to now, the 3rd or 4th I guess, are both the same person. In fact they are both sockpuppets of an old user named cytotoxic. He retired his main account after he spent over a year relishing in the forthcoming ascendancy of Hillary Clinton and then got it blown up his ass, but since he's an autistic, obsessive moron he can't keep himself away, so he frequently creates new handles not realizing that he's utterly incapable of not employing the exact same phrases and linguistic and rhetorical tics that give him away immediately.

[De Oppresso Liber]

It's called talking to your audience.

I see middle school logic, at best, in use for the position of "Twitter owes me and everyone I like a Twitter account".

[JesseAz]

David hogg seems to be your idol. Lol. At he doesn't lie about being in the military.

[De Oppresso Liber]

don't even know who that is.

...

Oh, it's the guy who's classmates and friends were killed in a school shooting, and conservatives on twitter have a weird homo erotic crush on.

I think I understand your reference now. Please leave me out of your weird, closeted kinks.

And Jesse, as I have offered innumerable times in the past, simply agree that you will leave this board forever when I can substantiate my service record, agree to a third party, and you shall have the truth.

[Mother's Lament]

And he has, and so have I, and you've fucked off.

[Mark Thrust, Sexus Ranger]

Fine, prove it. Do it.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

It’s called talking to your audience.

No, it's called projection.

Maybe that's why you were all bent out of shape because you thought the hayseeds in flyover country not wearing the Magical Mask Talismans were keeping you from jetting to Mexico for a holiday.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Rocks, usually you are better about staying on topic. I don't know what that list of red herrings has to do with Trump cultists being shunned.

If people dislike you to the point that they don't want to do business with you, then that is your problem to fix, and not the government's. You don't get to violate the NAP because you have become such a social pariah that people would rather not have your money than be associated with you. As always, you guys never fail to miss a chance to look inward.

I don't know why this is such a controversial topic among supposed libertarians.

[Mother's Lament]

Do you even know what a "red herring" means? And how the fuck do you imagine RRWP was off-topic?

Also if you weren't so dishonest you'd acknowledge that the actual argument everyone is making here is that if you're using 230's protections for your platform, you don't get to play editor. That's anti-libertarian and that's having it "both ways".

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

It's completely on topic. You're comparing a business transaction to the behavioral equivalent of middle school cliques. Your misplaced anger over red-staters not wearing masks when you go on business trips because they're supposedly interfering with your overseas vacations (which, incidentally, is like your dad belting the shit out of you every time an ice cream truck rolls by, and you end up blaming ice cream trucks for the beatings), or White Excrement thinking that he's dunking on me by claiming I'm in his version of the "nerd clique" on an internet board, is an example of that mentality at work.

[JesseAz]

Lol above he is threatening to have his dad beat me up. He is a fucking joke.

[Frank Jarding]

This time, it’s being done to them, though through the free market of ideas and commerce

Nothing says a "free market of ideas" like depersoning people who say things you don't like by way of a handful of oligopolistic platforms that exist solely due to government regulations, like banks, ISPs, domain registrars, and broadcast media.

Hey, remember how you spent 2 years shitting your pants and posting retarded Reddit copypasta about net neutrality in 2017? I wonder how your desire to force network operators to carry content they don't like jibes with your newfound love of the free market.

[De Oppresso Liber]

I don't believe I have never posted anything about net neutrality.

[De Oppresso Liber]

or ever

[JesseAz]

On this sock at least.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Hey rent boy, I've offered you a way to find out for sure. All you have to do is stop being a pussy, and act like an actual red blooded American man.

[Mother's Lament]

Again, I'll take that offer.

[Mark Thrust, Sexus Ranger]

You’re a piss blooded iceback. You know nothing of things American.

[CryHavok]

More stolen valor tough talk.

You dodged me months ago when I first called you out.

You are not a Green a beret and have never been.

[De Oppresso Liber]

I was, which is how i can guess the exact type I've got in front of me here: Fat ass, non diving, non thinking, traitor supporting tax thief who probably calls everyone "brother".

[TJJ2000]

You must be talking about racist Democrats; like Andrew Jackson?
Or the modern day version running around making skin color define everything about who a person is.

[Enjoy Every Sandwich]

Shit. How long is this "private companies can do what they want" thing going to last with you lefties?

[Enjoy Every Sandwich]

Does it extend to Clubhouse?

[Ra's al Gore]

Does it extend to the government charging someone for a Twitter joke from 5 years ago about Hillary voters should vote on the wrong day?

Local story. Fuck you, Reason.

[mpercy]

It sure doesn't extend to cake bakeries.

[De Oppresso Liber]

When did so-called libertarians who are actually Trump cultists decide it wasn't a thing?

[CryHavok]

Shut up stolen valor

[De Oppresso Liber]

Cry into your biker vest more.

[Sevo]

"When did so-called libertarians who are actually Trump cultists decide it wasn’t a thing?"

When did TDS-addled lefty shits learn what a "Trump cultist" is, TDS-addled lefty shit?

[TJJ2000]

It's not a lefty principle; It's a LIMITED government principle. And I applaud all of them standing up for it; be it through their 'gang mentality' or not.

[sarcasmic]

sweet

[R Mac]

Flagged!

[Frank Jarding]

What would it matter to you, you're a self-confessed felon who can't own firearms.

[sparkstable]

One side says don't cancel. One side says FYTW... and cancels.

Which party decided the rules of how to interact with the other? Actions > words.

I may WANT the rules of a game to be different. But if survival (or maybe just simple contentment) is predicted on being successful at the game... with the rules as they are... it doesn't make me a hypocrite when I both follow the rules and protest them at the same time.

Who fired the first proverbial shot? Big Tech (when did they start to cancel people... "fact check" people... ban people... then shut out of the whole of the market people they disagreed with? And when did the little LGS tell people to get bent for actively trying to ruin their lives? The one that came first sort of matters here.)

[Ra's al Gore]

Gun stores and Twitter can choose to do business with anyone they want. Gun stores and Twitter can both be sued for libel or slander or torturous interference.

ENB is too stupid to realize she's arguing for the same thing we are.

Fuck off, Reason.

[Ra's al Gore]

I also believe that, like Twitter, gun stores can violate the laws for political gain whenever they want to.

Someone At the Lincoln Project Appears to Have Illegally Broken Into Former Partner Jennifer Horn's Twitter Account, and Then Illegally Posted Private DMs on Twitter
FBI Investigating
http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=392685

And then, when morbidly obese troll George Conway noted that this might maybe constitute a federal felony, they scrambled to delete all the messages.

But people had saved them.

Whoops!

Whoopsie!

Yashar Ali asked Twitter if this was a violation of Twitter's bullshit, selectively-enforced "hacked materials" policy. Apparently they're claiming they banned Project Veritas and James O'Keefe for posting "hacked materials."

[Ra's al Gore]

https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1360258506805284864

Twitter spox tells me that the Lincoln Project tweet thread containing DM's from
@NHJennifer
's account (which she says were obtained without consent) do NOT violate Twitter rules

I'm also told by Twitter that the tweets are NOT a violation of their hacked materials policy

[Patrick Henry, the 2nd]

Because its done by a bunch of lefties, so its okay.

[Ra's al Gore]

Feudalism, the laws only apply to the peasants.

Peasants could not be armed, only aristocrats, which is why so many melee weapons were based on farm implements.

Peasants were limited in what they could buy so as to know their station. The ruling class isn't limited by the Green New Deal, just the peasants. Sumptuary laws.

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

When do we start building Elysium for our rulers.

[TallDave]

according to Calvin, his ball is in bounds despite being 100 yards past the out of bound marker

[Mark Thrust, Sexus Ranger]

Twitter violates its own TOS daily with this crap.

[Frank Jarding]

Section 230 means that if you operate a company that posts shit on the worldwide web you have no accountability for breech of contract or violating your own terms of service, didn't you know?

[TJJ2000]

^This is the only argument that holds water.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Apparently John McCain's rent-boy Steve Schmidt just quit the LP, brought up that he was apparently molested as a kid, and said he's converting to Judaism (presumably for the jokes).

I wonder if these guys are starting to realize that they got used, or they knew it and were expecting their johns to keep paying them. The trick with being a grifter is that you have to figure out who the mark really is; turns out it's not the lefties that were giving them asspats on CNN, MSNBC, Daily Beast, HuffPo, and other mouthpieces of the neo-Maoists, it was the "principled conservatives" who have been selling the country out for decades.

[Ra's al Gore]

Firing Actors for Being Conservative Is Another Hollywood Blacklist
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/02/gina-carano-mandalorian-fired-hollywood-blacklist-mccarthyism.html

In the late 1940s and 1950s, Hollywood studios — under pressure from the right — promised they would not “knowingly employ a communist.” This blacklist eventually became notorious, especially in Hollywood, which came to lionize its victims in several films. And yet it is becoming increasingly difficult to distinguish the blacklist policy from the emerging current treatment of right-wingers.

Earlier this week, Gina Carano, an actor in The Mandalorian, was fired from her job after a controversy over an allegedly anti-Semitic social-media post. In short order, UTSA, her talent agency, dropped her as a client.

[Ra's al Gore]

If you think blacklisting is only bad if its targets have sensible views, I have some bad news for you about communism. While some victims of the McCarthy-era blacklist were liberals or progressives who refused to turn in the names of their colleagues, others were bona fide communists. Dalton Trumbo — a Hollywood writer who was blacklisted, then wrote under front names, and whose story was told in a recent hagiographic movie starring Bryan Cranston — followed the Communist Party line in the Stalin era. When many fellow communists dropped out of the movement after Stalin formed an alliance with Hitler, Trumbo followed the new party line.

[WasabiHeadrush]

Not to mention that there was absolutely nothing anti-Semitic about what she wrote.

[Cyto]

The interesting thing about this one is that the star of the show made an arguably worse comparison to Jews in Nazi Germany in the same time frame on Twitter. except his was from the left-wing point of view.

You will note that they have not even reprimanded their star. But the role player who has right-leaning views not only lost a promising spin-off series, but we have to make sure that she never works again.

So often in these situations people posit and imaginary "what would have happened if Obama had done this" counter factual. Everyone pretends like that is an invalid argument.

Well, here we have reasonably identical situations. The only difference being which side of the aisle someone sits on. And the one on the left hasn't even gotten an eye roll. And the one on the right is no longer allowed to work anywhere, presumably ever.

So let's just stop the pretense that there is some standard of conduct at play here. They are playing out the enemy, and that is all. Anyone who disagrees with their ideology in any way is subject to termination. That is the beginning and end of all of it.

And useful idiots like our illustrious editor and author above need to stop carrying their water.

[JesseAz]

Or not accurate.

[JesseAz]

When the shop starts colluding with other shops as well as supply vendors to extricate biden voters, you'll have an apt comparison to Silicon Valley. Until then what a shitty comparison.

[JesseAz]

OH! And they get courts to force biden voters to give back the bullets they have purchased.

[WasabiHeadrush]

That picture is bullshit. Nobody has that much 9 mil in stock these days.

[TallDave]

Right, because government-enforced tech and banking monopolies are exactly the same as your local gun store.

[TallDave]

"we'll just be over here supporting free speech, free enterprise, and freedom of association no matter the underlying politics of the people exercising these rights"

Good luck with that when no major tech or banking company will sell you services. Be sure to yell really loud, so as many as a dozen people can hear your message.

[TallDave]

otoh who needs YouTwitFace? we can just go to Parler, right?

sure, they've been down since AWS cut them off but it's not like the FBI will just shut them down again

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/01/21/parler-fbi-russia-jan-6-capitol/

[Frank Jarding]

jUSt sTArT YoUr oWn iNteRNeT

[TallDave]

yep alt-media just sucked the few reasonable voices out of trad media

then they found out there's no way to establish alt-tech or alt-banking

oops

now the corporate censorship standards of Twitter, Facebook, etc are essentially the law

competitors that don't moderate the same way (i.e. from the left) will be shut down on grounds of "insurrection" and denied hosting and financial access

Mark Cuban and Joe Biden are right, America has failed

Texas should start the secession process

[Rock Lobster]

And immediately deport Mark Cuban and his merry band of ChiCom sycophants to the Peoples' Republic of Kalifornia. It would also be a good idea to complete that wall, but only after relocating it from the Rio Grande to the Red River and our Eastern and Western flanks.

[Fat Mike's Drug Habit]

To borrow from the Democrats: my principles aren't a suicide pact.

Freedom of association is great, but if it's going to be weaponized to totally exclude me from society you can expect me to find uses of my own for that weapon.

[mpercy]

Wow, ENB. Way to take a 180-out-of-phase position. I recall conservatives complaining about Twitter, FB, et al. deplatforming Trump and others, but the compaint was usually that while they are private businesses and *should* be able to do what they want, a) they are stupid for doing so b) they are lying about enforcing their own standards and T&Cs, and c) that when progressives tossed out the "private business can do what they want", the counterargument was "except not bake a cake for a gay wedding."

It may have happened somewhere with someone the way ENB says it did, but I sure didn't see it.

Let me know when ENB says we don't have to bake the cake? Until then the issue is largely the double standard applied. ENB doesn't see that?

P.S. I thought not baking the cake was stupid, but feel that they have a right to not bake the cake.

[Frank Jarding]

Let me know when ENB says we don’t have to bake the cake?

Bear in mind that this is the same cunt who, before she scrubbed her poorly trafficked personal blog after she got hired at Reason, had written extensively in support of the abortion and birth control coverage mandates in Obamacare and demanded their enforcement against a bunch of Catholic nuns.

[JesseAz]

She also doxxed someone for telling her to make him a sandwich.

[R Mac]

Most libertarian person I’ve ever met.

-Nick Gillespie.

[Mother's Lament]

That's when I knew Nick didn't give a shit about libertarianism any more.

[mpercy]

They're just taking a cue from Pres. Biden who says banks can now discriminate against disfavored industries?

[Mother's Lament]

I'm totally cool with that as long as tech companies and banks are treated exactly the same way by the government as gun shops.

Same waiting period and background checks to buy an iPhone, use Gmail or buy an IRA, and Larry's Rifles or Fenix Ammunition gets 230 protection and development grants.

[Sidd Finch v2.01]

If Big Tech TOA said "Shitlibs Only" in giant letters at the top nobody would have a problem with it.

[JesseAz]

Exactly this. Instead they tell congress that they are for free speech and neutral content moderation, then verify they aren't immediately.

They just said the Lincoln project didn't violate their hacked policy even though both reporter and ex employee said they never had access to her DMs. Meanwhile NYP hot banned for a device with legal contract showing transfer.

[Bill Godshall]

ENB is a terrible liar, as she is clearly not a libertarian.

During and after tens of thousands of conservatives and libertarians were cancelled by Big Tech companies during the past several months, ENB expressed no concerns for those victims.

But after one gun dealer stopped selling guns to Biden voters, ENB absurdly claims conservatives "can't have it both ways".

[Frank Jarding]

The irony, of course, is that they aren't having it both ways. They were told "fuck you, bake the cake", "fuck you, start your own Twitter", "fuck you, start your own payment processor", "fuck you start your own bank", "fuck you, start your own hosting provider", "fuck you, start your own ISP", "fuck you, start your own domain registrar". They lost. The government and society does not play by their rules. So now they are playing by the rules that were forced upon them. Don't like it? Start your own ammo foundry, cunt.

[TallDave]

coming soon: "fuck you, sell us the bullets we'll shoot you with"

unities compacted out of separate individuals; they are omnipotent; they cannot be destroyed or divided; they inspire fear in men; they do not make pacts with men; theirs is the dominion of power

[Cyto]

He didn't really stop selling guns to Biden voters, you understand that, right? It's a troll to make a point.

A point that is apparently lost on some people.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

This is a small company that is literally at risk of being bankrupted by Biden's proposed legislation that was on his website prior to the election. A lot of other small businesses have been bankrupted by elected officials in the last year. The owner says he willing to talk to Biden voters and help them understand that their vote puts his business at risk. He's not doxxing or censoring anyone nor is he threatening anyone's livlihood.
On the other hand we have billionaire oligarchs with a de facto monopoly who censor anyone that does not regurgitate the progressive narrative and crush any competitor that attempts to escape their grasp. These two things are not analogous.

[mapol]

The owner of the gun store in question doesn't seem to realize that he cannot stop people from voting for who they wish to vote for. If the owner is going to refuse to sell firearms to those who voted for Joe Biden, then that's HIS loss--nobody else's.

[Kungpowderfinger]

Conservatives can't have it both ways.

So as a supporter of RTKBA, I’m supposed to be upset by this.
Really.

[Wearenotperfect]

This is dumb! Why not just lie when checking the box!

[Dan S.]

Some people probably do. But I don't know just what the form that asks about your vote looks like. If the box is part of a form that also asks for legally required information, and says on the bottom something like "I certify, under penalty of perjury, that all of the above information is truthful and accurate", then there would be a problem. I don't think it could be combined that way, but I'm not sure. Regardless, the laws against vote buying might come into play, since this would be conditioning a material benefit on how someone votes, which is probably illegal.

[mad.casual]

since this would be conditioning a material benefit on how someone votes

I'm not sure that's what that phrase means. "I'll give you $5000 to vote one way or another" is a fiscal benefit. "I'll give you a $5000 car to vote one way or another" is a material benefit. I don't necessarily agree that "I'll take $500 from you and give you a handgun if you vote a certain way." is a material benefit. Additionally, all ove the above is pretty moot when the Democrats agree to fund the pensions of public union workers at virtually any/all levels.

[mad.casual]

“I’ll take $500 from you and give you a handgun if you vote a certain way.” is a material benefit

Sorry, isn't necessarily a material benefit. I mean, technically, any profit you made is proof that it wasn't a benefit.

[mapol]

If the owner of the gun shop in question really believes that he can control the way people vote, he's got other work cut out for him.

[Sevo]

"This is dumb! Why not just lie when checking the box!"

You don't have to tell a lefty shit to lie; you and your scumbag buds do it automatically.

[Paulpemb]

Nice try, but the argument on the right isn't that Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, et al, shouldn't be allowed to forbid speech that they don't like. The argument is that if these companies do prohibit speech they don't agree with, then they are no longer neutral platforms and they should be liable for the speech that they do allow.

[Mother's Lament]

"The argument is that if these companies do prohibit speech they don’t agree with, then they are no longer neutral platforms and they should be liable for the speech that they do allow."

All the lefties here know this (including ENB) but it's amazing to watch them ignore it as hard as they can.

[buckleup]

Sounds like a good business decision. Plus not many lefties buy firearms, they get scared by them.

[Mother's Lament]

"Conservatives can't have it both ways"

Meanwhile, ENB demands to have it both ways...
Say ENB, tell us again about Pornhub.

"As for us libertarians, however,"

You're not a libertarian ENB, your politics aren't even in the same galaxy as libertarianism.
Just liking hookers and weed doesn't make you anymore libertarian than liking ice cream does.

You have to be interested in standing up for personal liberty in all cases, regardless of whether the infringer is a church, an organization, a company or a government.
Just because there's a legal right doesn't mean that there's a moral right from a libertarian perspective.

[mad.casual]

You have to be interested in standing up for personal liberty in all cases, regardless of whether the infringer is a church, an organization, a company or a government.
Just because there’s a legal right doesn’t mean that there’s a moral right from a libertarian perspective.

You also need to have a degree of mental acuity to recognize long cons, where you're trading short term "liberty" for long-term slavery. ENB, and Reason, generally seem to get this in the exchange of pot prohibition for pot taxation, but not much else.

[Dillinger]

B voters want bullets?

[mad.casual]

The problem is, they didn't troll well enough. What really should happen is if you check the box saying you're a Biden voter, they say they can't sell you whatever you're trying to buy, but they can sell you 2 shotgun shells.

[mad.casual]

"I know it sucks, my sons are hunters. But c'mon man, it's store policy. Have a nice day."

[Jerryskids]

On the one hand you have a gun shop that can make you go buy a gun somewhere else, on the other hand you have many of the most powerful institutions on the planet who can ruin your entire life. Both sides!

[ragebot]

While I get Liz did this to illustrate a bigger point she is the one that seems to be hypocritical to me.

It should come as no shock to anyone that there is an ammo shortage. Going to the Fenix web site it seems like the only thing you can purchase there is a gift card; all the listed ammo is "out of stock".

It is a lot easier to pick and choose who you sell to when demand overwhelms supply.

[Demosthenes of Athens]

A clever marketing strat by the guys at Fenix. Most of their current advertising is geared toward 2A friendly stuff, and as such I imagine most of their customer base is as well. I first heard of them a couple years ago on Matt Christiansen's channel. They're simply trying to expand their existing customer base, and ENB is doing some nice work on their behalf. Next time contact them first, and you can see about getting an affiliate link for Reason before you advertise for them, ENB.

They've also been selling out instantly as the rounds come off the line. They're not going to see any problems with sales as a result of this.

[TangoDelta]

Too easy. The better thing to do is simply ask the questions that HR.127 would require.

Have you had a psychological evaluation by a psychologist approved by the US Attorney General?
Do you have $800 to cover annual firearm liability insurance?
Have you applied and paid the annual fee for a firearm and ammunition license?
Have you applied and paid the fee for the background check required for this purchase?
Have you taken and paid for the training course required to obtain a firearm and ammunition license?
Are you at least 21 years old?
Do you solemnly swear that this purchase is for your own personal use and you will not sell or give even a single round of ammunition to another without going through the former set of questions, background checks, etc.?
If you have a single shot rifle, double barrel shotgun or other manually loaded firearm, do you understand that as the ammunition feeding device you may not carry more than 10 rounds of ammunition at a time?
Are you aware that failure to comply could result in fines in excess of $100,000 and/or 25 years in prison?

I freely grant that the true control freaks will think the questions to be appropriate if not too weak. They are control freaks after all.

[swillfredo pareto]

Fenix is perfectly within its rights to reject customers...So is Twitter. And YouTube. And Facebook. And Reddit. And so on…

Yet when it comes to these private companies..many, many others on the right have been whining and objecting nonstop.

Let me explain to you why. Fenix sells a tool for people to use to exercise their natural right to self defense. Those super-shitty companies you rattled off are actively colluding to deprive people of a tool to exercise their natural right to speech. The fact that both companies are exercising their natural right to freedom of association is not remotely the point and it is unsurprising ENB missed it.

[udi]

All I see is a business opportunity. Someone who already sells ammo to everyone or is willing to, should pay to put up a billboard outside this store, that reads: "We sell ammo to everyone. Use discount code 'BIDEN' for 10% off your initial purchase".

[TJJ2000]

BIDEN’S discount code - LAW to shutdown this business?

[ragebot]

Reality check time. I know of one local gun shop that has ammo in stock, Kevins. The prices are around five or six times what they use to be. The Academy gets ammo trucks on Wed and Sunday. The line starts at 6:00AM and the store opens at 9:00AM and the entire stock is sold out by 10:00AM.

The few places that have ammo in stock are able to do that because they charge prices that are insane and almost no one is willing to pay them.

There is no business opportunity here; if you can get ammo you can sell it at inflated prices.

Anyone with an IQ above room temperature sees this for what it is a cry for ten minutes of fame. Trying to make it into anything else is just plain silly.

[Jeff Mason]

The hypocrisy noted in the article is true - to a point. Had the company instituted the policy first, I would agree whole,heartedly. However, canceling, censoring, deplatforming and firing people for their political beliefs is a recent product of the left. When people pointed this out, instead of correcting their actions, they doubled down and censored those complaining about the censorship of others. In the face of the left’s unwillingness to acknowledge the blatant unfairness of their actions, turning it back on them is justified so they can experience, in even a small way, the injustice they have foisted upon so many others. Maybe then they will say, “Hey this sucks. I can see why people are so pissed off.”

[MaverickNH]

I see - fine logic. If we do what you object to on principle , you doing the same as payback is invalid. So, we keep doing it while holding you can’t do it. You must take it...and smile.

[rferris]

Great to know Reason supports the rights of retailers to refuse service.
Is this different from refusing to bake a cake when you do not want to???
Amazing how a mega-corporation, in Reason's staff opinion, has the same ability as small retailers to destroy others???
Strange that Reason is not more supportive of free speech.
The retailer pays in lost business he needs badly, The giants do not care about your business!

[Fozzy Bear]

“Conservatives can't have it both ways.”
Why are Liberals allowed the double standard? Why do Liberals allow “grace” to their sinners, while conservatives are cast into the outer darkness?

[Ken Shultz]

The best way to turn a Biden voter into a Republican may be to sell him or her a gun. If more swing voters owned guns, the Democrats would be less likely to ban them. Instead of refusing to sell guns to Biden voters, a more effective policy might be that when Biden voters come in looking for a handgun, upsell them on an AR-15 with a 30 round magazine.

[TJJ2000]

Now, now;; You know better than that.. It's all about YOU being *forced* to 'care' for their well-being not about them actually caring. It shines true in the very fact they use Gov-Guns instead of volunteers.

[ragebot]

Kinda goes back to the old blurb 'a liberal is just a conservative that has not been mugged yet'.

While no one (including Fenix) really knows if the peeps buying guns and ammo are dems or pubs it is obvious there has been a massive increase in gun sales with more guns being sold in 2020 than any other year in history by a wide margin. There are lots of stories on the internet about half, or more, of the guns being bought by first time buyers who are liberals worried about violence in the 'mostly peaceful protests.

I do know a couple of long time friends who have always voted for dems who have bought weapons because they are worried about civil unrest and the inability (or refusal) of LEOs to control it. I also know some long time friends who vote for pubs who complain that all the new gun buyers have caused the prices to skyrocket and blame the noobies for it.

That is what makes the OP's original post so silly. I know peeps working/owing the local gun stores and they will often alert their friends/best customers when a shipment is arriving and everything is sold out literally in minutes. What Fenix did was simply poking a stick in some lib's eye.

[mapol]

Banning the little snub-nosed hand-guns that are concealable in a purse, a totebag, or whatever is not a realistic possibility, because the NRA and the Gun Lobby are both very omnipotent, well-funded and well-organized. Banning automatic assault rifles, however, is a whole different matter, especially because they can kill many more people much more quickly.

[Titus PUllo]

Well back to the Civil Right's Act of 1964? The govt decided that buyers can discriminate but sellers can't under certain circumstances with political views not being one. This obviously was a huge mistake and clearly unconstitutional. Either you force sellers to sell if the buyer can pay or not..period end of story.
That said..ENB (another woke cosmo Reason type liberal art major whose obsessions are open borders and abortion not the Fed or wars or economic liberty) attempts to defend Big "NYC cultural marxist" Tech is laughable. Is she is honest she will call for overturning the Civil Rights Act Title 2 and 8 ...anything else and she is a hypocrite.

[TJJ2000]

I'd call to overturn the Civil Rights Act of 1964 for exactly the point you just made; It took over another persons business by collective [WE] mob power. [WE] mobs should never get to TAKE things others have created or feel *entitled-to*... Just look where it led to!

[Ride 'Em]

The problem is that social media is like a public utility. They control the internet and the conversation.

[TJJ2000]

Not hardly; there's plenty of optional routes so long as the infrastructure (connection) isn't monopolized.

[OBloodyHell]

}}} Tech companies should have the same freedom to choose their customers.

Right. Except the tech companies are essentially monopolies on the distribution of people's comments.

And, when a company sets itself up to offer AN ALTERNATIVE, well, they get Parlerized, don't they?

The "tech companies" have a specific exemption to liability because they AREN'T supposed to be editorializing content.

When they act to take down ANY comments which are NOT SPECIFICALLY ILLEGAL, they are ENGAGING in editorial discretion.

They can continue to do so, but they have no business having any liability protections from that point on.

They don't get to have it both ways -- either they retain "common carrier" status, and do not interfere with ANY COMMUNICATIONS WHICH ARE OF A LEGAL NATURE, or they are subject to the same liability concerns as ANY PUBLISHER.

Stop ignoring this.

[Alan@.4]

A very interesting situation.

[Hattori Hanzo]

Fenix Ammunition is choosing not to do business with people that are voting for politicians that want them to be out of business. Social media companies are working aggressively to censor speech. Apples and oranges.

[TJJ2000]

Not entirely true, "Social media companies" being pressured and repeated called on by Democratic Politicians on hill.

The real culprits are the Democratic Politicians... As-if they're very open desire to censor speech on Section 230 discussions wasn't a dead give away. It's "crony socialism" just like the Hunter/Biden influence. There should be expulsion trials on this type of behavior coming from the hill; it's the very definition of corruption and treason.

[ragebot]

I would be interested in knowing if Fenix has refused to sell any ammo to any customer, dem or pub, based on this policy. I bet dollars to donuts the answer is no.

[TJJ2000]

Fenix is right on target; and not being hypocritical at ALL. This is how free-market's ensure their own justice. It's exactly why Trump initiated Tariffs. You don't play around with crooks or you get robbed. You counter their criminal behavior in *defense* with some weapon of your own. It's exactly how law & order has been doing it since the beginning of times. The whole purpose of LEO's carrying guns, tasers or any other COUNTER / DEFENSIVE weapon.

Yes; It's sad that the left has gone this far aggressively - but they have. Don't complain about *entitlement-to* Big Tech, that is a 'lefty' aggressive "we 'own' that" mentality; Boycott them and setup other outlets. Be the next Facebook; Republicans are everywhere the Demand is there x10.

[ananimasu]

First of all, they came to power only by covert and overt government intervention so to some extent they do function as government entities. Remember Snowden? Second, they are monopolies in violation of antitrust laws as much as any businesses ever. Third, even if they are private and the government shouldn’t intervene, that does not mean that the human right to free speech isn’t being violated, that intellectual diversity isn’t veing sacrificed to our society’s detriment, or that libertarians shouldn’t be concerned with these trends.

[TJJ2000]

Right; but Big-Gov IS NOT the cure for Big-Gov induced problems. Adding on another layer of "crony socialism" just expands the problem. This is 'lefty - fix-it' mentality.

[Perry de Havilland]

And if the water or power company cuts you off because they don't like what you say, you should just start up your own water or power company, right? And if Visa/Mastercard/PayPal refuse to process your payment to Gab.com, you should start up your own global credit card/payment provider, right?

Likening a gun shop with many alternatives to an oligopolistic tech company with society-wide or even global reach is a serious mistake. This kind of utterly suicidal thinking is why I avoid describing myself as a libertarian these days. Try not to sacrifice common sense for the sake of poorly thought out ideological purity.

[TJJ2000]

Common-Sense;
Water and Power aren't yet 'federally' owned by a bunch of 'fix-it' legislation. We've got FAR, FAR, FAR too much history on how legislative 'fix-its' turns out in the end. Recent developments are EXACTLY one of them.

Democratic Congressmen CALLED Big Tech to have the sitting president censored. And that kind 'political' influence, I'd bet, mostly came recent 'fix-it' trials in congress and a trail of "crony socialist" gov handouts.

Handing politicians the ability to Monopolize Big Tech and it's influence just expands the problem; it doesn't fix-it.

[Tony]

If you’re not being pure then what good are you? If we can object to the basic rules of the market when we don’t get our pony, then who the hell are you to tell anyone else they can’t grab what special favors they can take?

Twitter is reacting rationally as a business and trying to prevent regulation.

But you apparently want it both ) regulated by the government and also b) required to post inflammatory lies to the whole world.

Sometimes you have to sacrifice principle for power, it’s the libertarian way.

[jumpfish]

Here’s the aggravating part. Big Tech can exclude on political bias...fine. Just PUBLICLY ADMIT YOU HAVE A BIAS AND WILL CENSOR BASED ON THAT BIAS!!!!!

Stop testifying before Congress that you have no bias. It now constitutes perjury.

Stop buying university “studies” that claim you have no bias.

Stop colluding to shut down alternatives to your agenda (e.g. - Parler) that oppose your views and threaten your market share.

At least this Michigan gun store wears its biases on its sleeve...

[Jerry B.]

Fenix Ammunition isn’t selling any ammunition to anybody right now. Per their website, they’re completely sold out, just like most gun and sporting goods stores.

[Rock Lobster]

Wow. I had no idea that Fenix Ammunition was abusing its monopoly power and begging Government Almighty to smite their small fry competitors like Bass Pro Shops and Cabela's with regulatory capture. They are totally just like Twitter, FaceBook and Google.

Thanks for pointing out this gross injustice and standing up for the little guy, Elizabeth.

Fight The Power!

[Tony]

If you want Twitter to be a public utility, that means it gets to be subject to democratic forces not just market forces, and that means it can be used by the people to further their own ends.

Our ends are to see the United States remain intact and to shut Donald Trump’s fat lying traitorous face so he doesn’t get anyone else killed.

[Rock Lobster]

Tony, you and your ideological kin are beneath contempt and are unworthy of any engagement not involving the use of a firearm or other suitable weapon.

Now run along and bother someone else until the time is right.

[Tony]

I don’t understand why you ridiculous boobs think you can have it all ways.

If this country were 1/10th the banana republic shithole you want it to be, what do you think it would do to people who storm its capitol building, try to take over, and what do you think it would do to their leaders?

By all means, keep jacking off to thoughts of murdering people for using words and concepts you don’t understand like some retarded monkey. Everyone always forgets the stupid revolutions, because, well you can figure it out.

[Rock Lobster]

Slap that straw man, and show him who's boss, Tony!

That straw man hates Social Justice and SCIENCE! too, Tony.

And he's mocking you, Tony. Mocking you and your altruism, too, dammit! Worst of all, he probably voted for Trump!

[Tony]

Altruism? Nobody’s talking about altruism right now. I’m not like the other hippies, I like having an army.

Something has to protect us from the “individual freedom” people who get an immediate raging tax-and-spend power boner the moment a private company hurts their feelings.

[Rock Lobster]

The straw man doesn't give a shit, Tony.

The straw man will be in your head always, tormenting you and forever spoiling all your dreams of Hope and Change and Unity.

No army can protect you from the straw man, Tony. Not even 25,000 troops deployed in the seat of the Empire will save you.

Be afraid, Tony. Be very afraid. It's the Patriotic thing to do.

[Tony]

Or perhaps my culture will continue dominating and extinguishing your culture without you even realizing it.

You know all those times you've whined about some new standard of behavior you're uncomfortable with? How you can't get anyone to go along with your insistence that you should be free to be obnoxious in public? How it just leads to further humiliation?

I know the people who did that. Trump wasn't even a blip on their radar. If anything, he accelerated things.

[Rock Lobster]

"Or perhaps my culture will continue dominating and extinguishing your culture without even realizing it."

The Rev's straw man doesn't give a shit, either, Tony.

[Tony]

With much economic anxiety, you’d think Trump trash would take anyone’s dollars.

[ragebot]

You need to get up to speed on the law of supply and demand.

If demand so out strips supply that a seller is constantly out of stock the seller can tell pinko commie creeps to go bite a big red donkey dick and still sell all the supply they have; not to mention get kudos from peeps who don't like pinko commie creeps.

[Tony]

You don’t think it’s a bit odd that you keep buying more guns every time some cable news bimbo strokes your tribal fear boner, yet the one time you tried to actually use them against the United States, you forgot to bring them?

You’re not being used like a cheap slut by an industry lobby known to be extremely corrupt because it agrees with you about freedom. They know you’re stupid and they like having your money. It could be timeshares for all they care.

[nicmart]

Reagan supported gun control, so no ammo for them.

[ErinS]

'ELIZABETH NOLAN BROWN is a senior editor at Reason.'

WHY????? If you are such an idiot or political hack to think that some rando gun nut in Michigan has the same importance as Twitter or Facebook to our democracy, economy or culture means that you are wholly unworthy of any title of Senior Editor. Shame on you and on Reason.

[ejhickey]

Wow! Look at all that 9mm! Pastures of Plenty! wonder if they do bulk mail order?

[Jerk Waters]

What about the theory that Twitter, YouTube, Facebook, Reddit, and so on are Public Accommodations? If a gun shop chooses to not sell ammo to a Biden Voter, the Biden Voter can walk down the street to another gun store and purchase ammo. However, if the above websites bar users simply because of their political views, users have no alternative. Just like when a black was traveling in the South in the 40's and 50's and was refused service at a hotel, restaurant, or department store. More often than not there were no alternatives for the traveler, especially in small towns. Thus they were declared to be "Public Accommodations".

[TJJ2000]

We've been down this road before with Microsoft, IBM, Yahoo, MySpace, etc, etc, etc...........

Every single one of them eventually lost their massive standing EXCEPT the one's ensured with Gov-Guns like Schools/Universities/SS/FHA/Pharma/Medical etc, etc, etc...

Don't turn an immediate concern into a Gov-God "Savior" nightmare -- patience is all it takes. Facebook will be hit by a bus too eventually just like Facebook was hit MySpace.

UNLESS of course; There already is "social safety nets" created by Gov-Gods unfairly propping up Facebook that hasn't taken notice in the public eye. That's where the case/battle needs to be made.

Obama: ‘Google, Facebook Would Not Exist’ Without Government Funding.....

[The Encogitationer]

While private businesses with no government contracts have a right to set their own terms and conditions for business, there's is a better way that Fenix Ammunition and every other gun and ammo manufacturer could handle the culture than requiring a vote statement or loyalty oath.

Instead of this silliness, Fenix or any other manufacturer shoild say:

"Hello, customers! Unlike lazy, crazy Social Justice Warriors, we at our firm think it is part of our job to educate you!"

"So, free with every order, we will give to you a free hard-copy booklet or download explaining the Natural, Constitutional, Civil, and Legal Right to Keep and Bear Arms (RKBA)! Inside, yoi'll learn about the derivation of RKBA from the Natural Rights to Life, Liberty, and Property, its use in both history and everyday life to deter and thwart crime, terrorism, and tyranny, and what happens with this right is ignored and violated! Warning: Strong violent content but a bitter necessity for your education!"

"We also offer a full line of booklets, books, DVDs, and on-demand streams on gun ownership and the history of gun use in fighting crime, terrorism, and tyranny and upholding individual rights!"

"Feel free to visit our BitChute, Mastadon, and other independent video and social services to see free videos on selecting the best gun, gun cleaning, gun repair, gun safety, and our latest sales, offers, discounts, and clearances! We are an Equal Opportunity Firm and welcome all peaceful, honest, responsible prospects and customers, regardless of conditions of birth or even chosen views! Please visit us and shop with us today!"

See there? Just standard good business done even better. No market share lost, and maybe some minds changed too!

And worst case scenario, even if no minds are changed, a deranged person or "cancel culture" flash-mob would have to be suicidal to physically attack a gun and ammo firm. So, either way, the firm both survives and even thrives with my proposed approach.

[TJJ2000]

^Good idea; The "Teachers Unions" in Democratic echo-chambers would have a field day with it but ironically their massive dismay might just prove to be free-advertising. 🙂

[The Encogitationer]

What's the worst they could do? Accuse the gun store or manifacturer of teaching without a license?

If so, the teacher's unions would have to go after craft stores that offer literature or courses to customers. Or sports stores that offer lessons, or auto parts stores that offer Chilton's Manuals.

And HowThingsWork.com or WikiHow will be in trouble too. The teacher's unions will really tip their hands as totalitarians if they pull something like this.

[TJJ2000]

The teacher’s unions will really tip their hands as totalitarians if they pull something like this.

And yet; They keep doing stuff exactly like that. The far-fetched examples today seems to turn into the realities of tomorrow. Last year the "crazy" standing would be, "What, is the Democratic Party going to censor the sitting President?" -- Wallah! There it is.

[MaxBlancke]

The only way the actions taken by Fenix could be comparable to the actions taken by left-leaning companies would be if they found a way to keep you from purchasing ammo at other companies, as well. They would likely also need to find ways to prevent you from purchasing components or tooling to make your own.

Honestly, conservatives have been forced to listen to absurd levels of hyperbolic rage against them for years. Plenty of businesses have posted "no Trump voters" policies. They should not be outraged when their own tactics are used against them, even on such a small scale.

Anyway, it is like an occult bookstore not wanting fundamentalist Christian customers. People who want to ban the sales of guns and ammo are pretty unlikely to have their lives changed very much if they cannot buy ammo from this one shop.

[heehaw]

duh, Exxon pissed me off so I'll go to Arco.dude,different pumps same well.

[TJJ2000]

"Don't do business with the children in Urban CA", It think was the headline message wasn't it?

[muctashio]

I recognize company's rights to choose who they do business with, but that does not mean that I believe it is right or moral. In both of these cases (the gun store owner and the big-tech companies), I believe that their actions are morally wrong, divisive, and akin to cancel-culture.

[Chute_Me]

Sorry but this is ridiculous. Ignored in every discussion of social media companies is who their customer is -- that is, who is it that is paying them for goods or services? Hint: not the tweeters. If the social media companies refuse to accept advertising from certain companies ... (shrug) ... of course they are free to do that.

[Echospinner]

It is the other way around. Revenue comes from advertising. The companies putting up click bait can cancel contracts. This is as true here as anyplace.

[Echospinner]

The wedding cake defense, which I agree with, was that a custom wedding cake is a work of art or craft. Thus it is different than something ‘on the shelf’.

Is ammunition the same?

A box of Remington .45 acp is not the same as hand crafted sold by this shop.

Or is it if it sits in the display case and not custom ordered. Is it the same thing. Political affiliation is not one of the constitutional rights protected.

If it were me and I had a bakery I would have just advertised gayest wedding cakes ever. Those wedding cakes go for big dollars and I know this. But that is just me.

[markm23]

Sexual orientation became a protected category like race due to court decisions as well as legislation in several states. Political positions are not. If they were, many conservatives, Republicans, and Trumpistas would be getting rich right now by suing the social media and internet hosting companies that blocked them.

[Vishal Sharma]

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[ragebot]

Maybe some of you legal eagles could comment on the question of standing. Does anyone have standing to seek redress from Fenix because they were not able to buy ammo from them.

From what I can see they are a small company and not close to being able to supply all the demand for ammo; their site seems to show they are continually out of stock and what little (compared to national sales) ammo they do sell flies off the shelf as soon as it is available.

This is obviously a PR stunt since Fenix can easily sell all the ammo they are able to produce. If I go into a store and nothing is on the shelf I can not say I was discriminated against.

Just as an aside I have have seen plenty of online ammo sales sites that have the same "out of stock" blurbs on their site but also have a window that says enter your email address and we will email you when the ammo is in stock; something I did not see at Fenix. I also know plenty of folks who claim local gun stores will tell their friends when the ammo delivery truck is to arrive so they can be first in line to purchase the very limited supply.

Bottom line is when the supply and demand situation is so distorted how the supply is rationed is also distorted.

[Wise Old Fool]

It's completely their right, but uh $20 is $20. dumb fuckers lol. Some Dems do also buy guns. Just like libertarians and greens and republicans. Not everybody sucks their party's dick and tows the line.

[ragebot]

Looks like most of the posters here cut class the day they taught economic rationing theory. When supply can't meet demand goods and services are rationed by price or time. In a capitalistic system prices rise as supply decreases; in a socialistic system the time you wait for goods and services increases.

The thing is in the current situation both price and time have increased massively and the supply is not close to meeting the demand so sellers are free to use other more unconventional methods to ration supply. Things like favoring friends and shunning enemies come to mind.

[Liberty Lover]

Reason is to stupid to figure out the difference between a free market and a monopoly or oligopoly. Also an independent seller and collusion among a group of sellers.
Also by Reasons reasoning:
1) a racist should be able to exclude people by race from their business.
2) a sexist should be able to exclude people by sex from their business
3) a religious person should be able to exclude others of other religious beliefs from their business.
Yet all are illegal in the United States.
The writers at Reason have lost their ability to reason.

What is an Oligopolistic Market or Oligopoly?
A market condition in which sellers are so few that the actions of any one of them will materially affect price and have a measurable impact on competitors.

[Echospinner]

So if you voted for Jo Jorgensen can you buy half the amount of ammo?

[Stephen W]

This is a terrible analogy by the author.

One one hand we have a single gun company saying, clearly and up-front that they won't take business from Biden voters.

On the other we have several major enormous tech companies who claim, "WE'RE NOT BIASED!" and repeatedly and obviously censor views they don't like.

It does not make the point in any way. Horrible logic, or, no logic at all, really.

[tlapp]

The gun shop owner is correct. Don't sell guns and ammos to people so stupid as to want those things yet votes for those that want to make them illegal. Stupid people with guns are dangerous.

[Liberty Lover]

I guess Reason thinks your local utility for gas, electric and water should be able to shut off your service if they don't like you. I mean you have so many other alternatives, like none!

[DJK]

ENB, the common carrier exception is a long and well-established part of American law. The gun shop and Twitter are fundamentally different from this perspective. This is not a difficult concept to wrap your head around.

[Aksshay]

No wonder why this is happening ,i dont know which side to choose now
Read more about Best Washing Machine In India

[mmmjv]

This isn't being done out a any principles. It's being done for money, to get more sales increase profits.

They're hoping that there will be enough right wing yahoos who'll now buy from them because they're "sticking it to the libs" and that those people will more than make up for the lost Biden voters. It's risky, and it's based on the assumption that there aren't that many Biden voters who'll buy guns anyway.

[DarrenM]

I thought one of the principles in determining if a private business has a "right" to refuse customers is if that customer has other reasonable options. In the case of the gun owner, there are many competitors to choose from. Perhaps the real issue is the monopolistic characteristics of Facebook and Twitter.

[Ezra MacVie]

What penalties do everyone else suffer when they irresponsibly publish false and defamatory information?
Please spell this out for me.

[CharlieFromMass]

Agreed, although 230 isn't covering all those sites right now, is it?

That said, 230 or not, the way YouTwitFace is treating those that disagree with modern leftists, and even some of the modern leftists themselves, is disgraceful, and of no service to them in the long term.

[Mother's Lament]

Wait, what?

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

What penalties do everyone else suffer when they irresponsibly publish false and defamatory information?
Please spell this out for me.

The risk of a civil lawsuit, which is what Section 230 protects them from.

Sufficiently spelled out?

[Quo Usque Tandem]

"...irresponsibly publish false and defamatory information?"

li·bel
/ˈlībəl/
See definitions in:
All
Law
Journalism
Ecclesiastical
noun
1.
LAW
a published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation.

[Gene Poole]

I agree that only people who have guns should be allowed to have guns. But who are you to call my friend a communist? You queer!

[mapol]

If you really think that Joe Biden is a Socialist or a Communist, you just might want to think again. Joe Biden may be more liberal than Donald Trump, but that doesn't make him a Socialist or a Communist.

[perlhaqr]

"And Elizabeth Nolan Brown is a fucking idiot[.]"

Could have stopped there.

[Your Majesty]

Also for thinking that social media users are customers. Social media users are the product.

[nicmart]

Are you a communist? Selling stocks doesn't make a company a public entity. It's getting harder to tell the Right arm from the Left.

[Pizzagate Conspirator]

> And Elizabeth Nolan Brown is a fucking idiot for not once making a distinction between private and public companies.

You've made an irrelevant distinction there, by either deliberately or ignorantly conflating the definition of "public/private". In terms of classical legal meanings, "public" means owned by a government legal entity, while "private" means owned by a non-government entity. On the other hand, the distinction between a
"private company" and a "public company" is merely a matter of differences in the ownership structure, usually with each version being owned by non-government entities. Hence, both are "private" in the sense that they are not owned or controlled by a government.

You've provided no coherent reason for why a company whose owners are a diverse array of private actors who trade the shares to the general public should be punished for engaging in discriminatory behavior while a company whose ownership is closely-held and not traded should be allowed to discriminate. The gun company relies on government-funded infrastructure, not least those famous ROADZ. There's also naval protection of sea traffic (involved in availability/pricing of imported goods), diplomacy (involved in import/export laws and tariffs for such imports), government weapons programs which subsidize development of popular products like the AR-15, communications networks to help advertise the store and its products, the GPS system which helps customers actually find the place, etc...

[perlhaqr]

Not sure the latter point is a good one. It would be reasonable to claim that this ammunition company relies on publicly funded infrastructure (roads and highways) to ship their product.

I'm also not claiming this is a slam-dunk rebuttal, either, just that I'm not certain about your position there.

I don't know enough about the subject to have an opinion on the matter of "publicly traded company". Does that actually come with demands to serve all comers?

[DarrenM]

"Publicly traded" just means that company stock purchase can be done through an exchange. There is no real restriction on who can buy it. It has nothing to do with government except that the exchanges are regulated by the SEC.

[Rick the Bear]

@perlhaqr

That was an ad hominem attack and I laughed. Should I feel badly about that? 8>)

[damikesc]

Is it ad hominem if it is 100% accurate?

[markm23]

When a business bans customers, it usually becomes less profitable. In a privately owned business (including closely-held corporations), the owners made that decision for themselves. That's OK. In a publicly traded corporation, the management is making that decision, and in every case I've seen recently without consulting the owners. They should reimburse the owners for that lost money.

[BSalz3586]

Trump banned bump stocks and said he wanted to “take the guns first, worry about due process later.”

[mapol]

I believe that some type of gun control is absolutely necessary, because there are people who really should NOT even be allowed near firearms for a number of reasons. Congress has to close that loophole that allows illegal gun sales to occur at gun shows. Also, rogue gun dealers who operate underground (inotherwords, don't comply with the laws that require background checks, waiting periods, etc., and thus enable gun purchasers to obtain firearms through the Black Market (inotherwords, illegally), should be forced out of business.

Also, when the names of people with histories of anger management issues, mental illness, being criminally disposed, or substance and alcohol abuse/addiction come up on gun dealer's computers, such people should be disallowed from purchasing firearms.

Also, very few guns, if any, are used in self-defense by civilians. Many more guns are used in murders and suicides.

[mapol]

If the owner of this particular gun shop decides that s/he won't do any business with people who voted for Joe Biden for President, well...that's her prerogative. It'll backfire on here in the long run, because she may very well lose other customers as a consequence.

[Dirk Honkler]

shut up bootlicker

[Quo Usque Tandem]

"... very few guns, if any, are used in self-defense by civilians. Many more guns are used in murders and suicides."

Do you have any facts to support this conjecture?

Rhetorical question, of course.

[DarrenM]

How do you buy a gun illegally at a gun show? How can illegal gun sales be a "loophole"? It's already illegal.

[Bruce D]

No one is being forced to commit suicide. Suicides don't count. All of those measures are invasions of privacy unjustified with no positive effect, that enables the government to compile lists of firearms & owners for future confiscation.

[Woodchipper for Preet Bharara ([e-mail])]

This Gun Shop Says It Won't Do Business With Biden Voters
Tech companies should have the same freedom to choose their customers.

Right! And right-wing utility companies should have the same freedom to turn off their power and heat.

Utility company: "Hi Amazon Web Services? I heard you guys canceled some people we like, so... [breaker pops in the background] hope you have enough fuel for those gensets.

Utility Company: "Hi Mr. Ossoff. We don't agree with your political position."
Ossoff: "Ok"
Utility Company: "So we are turning off your gas."
Ossoff: "What?!? But that's my home address."
Utility Company: "Yes. We know." [moment of silence] "Have a nice day!"

[Angry Porcupine]

I just use mine for shootin shit. Just because it s fun for me.

[Angry Porcupine]

Your mom only charged me a $100.

[Hank Phillips]

Trump was working for a National Socialist Party. It was in the job description. He vass only following orders!

[Bruce D]

Eat shit, spammer!

[Bruce D]

Inside many, if not most, "liberals" is a Stalinist trying to get out.

[Bruce D]

What customers? Biden voters are gunowners who regularly shoot? I don't think they'll lose much business.