Capitol Riot

Should Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley Be Expelled From the Senate for 'Insurrection'?

That punishment for reinforcing the delusions that drove the Capitol riot is highly unlikely, and it would set a troubling precedent.

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During a recent interview about the fallout from the Capitol riot on Firing Line with Margaret Hoover, Sen. Joe Manchin (D–W. Va.) brought up Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, which bars senators and representatives from serving in Congress if they "have engaged in insurrection or rebellion." Based on that provision, Hoover asked, would Manchin support the "removal" of Sens. Ted Cruz (R–Texas) and Josh Hawley (R–Mo.), who pressed their objections to President Joe Biden's electoral votes even after that cause had led to a violent invasion of their own workplace?

Given that Manchin is widely considered the most conservative Democrat in the Senate and has expressed concern about the divisiveness of rushing to impeach and try former President Donald Trump for his role in the riot, his response was striking. "That should be a consideration," he said. "Ted's a very bright young individual, and I get along fine with Ted. But what he did was totally outside of the realm of our responsibilities or our privileges that we have." Other senators, including Sheldon Whitehouse (D–R.I.) and Sherrod Brown (D–Ohio), have said Cruz and Hawley should be expelled if they refuse to resign.

Expelling Cruz and Hawley, like convicting Trump, would require approval by two-thirds of the Senate, meaning 17 Republicans would have to agree that their conduct disqualified them from continuing to serve in Congress. That seems quite unlikely. But even entertaining the possibility raises troubling questions about the consequences of defining insurrection to include public officials who allegedly helped inspire it.

Section 3 was originally aimed at former Confederates, who inarguably engaged in "insurrection or rebellion." It is not much of a stretch to say that the people who participated in the deadly attack on the Capitol, which was aimed at preventing a duly elected president from taking office, did something similar.

But the article of impeachment against Trump that the House approved a week later argues that he also engaged in insurrection, because he fired up the rioters with his oft-repeated fantasy of a stolen election. "Do you agree that President Trump incited an insurrection?" Hoover asked Manchin, who replied that there is "no doubt at all in my mind."

If you accept that premise, it logically follows that politicians like Cruz and Hawley, who reinforced Trump's fantasy by challenging electoral votes without any basis to believe they were not "regularly given" or "lawfully certified" (as required by the Electoral Count Act), are insurrectionists too: They "engaged in insurrection" by promoting false beliefs about the election, which in turn inspired violence by some Trump supporters. That seems like quite a stretch. Under this interpretation, any legislator who lent credence to Trump's outlandish claims of massive election fraud—which would include most Republicans in the House—should be expelled under Section 3.

Even Trump's most vociferous critics should think long and hard before opening that can of worms. The implication is that legislators who support a cause that moves some people to anti-government violence thereby forfeit their right to serve in Congress. It is not hard to imagine how that logic might be applied to left-leaning legislators who, say, vehemently criticize police practices and passionately decry racial bias in law enforcement.

None of this means that senators like Cruz and Hawley, or representatives such as Mo Brooks (R–Ala.), did nothing wrong when they persistently fed the twin delusions underlying the Capitol riot: that Trump won the election and that Biden's inauguration could still be prevented. Cruz and Hawley sacrificed truth and their supposed constitutional principles for political gain, hoping to enhance their status as presidential contenders by appealing to ardent Trump supporters. Their actions were reckless, cynical, and legally groundless. Although they claimed to be upholding the integrity of the election system, they were attacking its constitutional foundation by trying to override electoral votes that were duly certified by the state officials who are legally charged with that responsibility.

Cruz and Hawley violated their oaths to uphold the Constitution for the crassest of reasons. As Hoover noted during her interview with Manchin, Cruz was using his support for overturning the election results to raise money even as he and his colleagues were forced to flee enraged Trump followers. "Totally unconscionable," Manchin said. He wondered "how any of them can live with himself knowing that because of their objections…five people lost their lives."

This sort of disgraceful behavior should not go unpunished. But if Cruz and Hawley are to lose their jobs, the decision should be left to their constituents.

Short of expulsion, the Senate can register its disapproval of what Cruz and Hawley did by censuring them, which requires no more than a simple majority. That approach would avoid setting a dangerous precedent while providing ammunition to the senators' opponents in future elections. If voters see fit to re-elect such cowardly, irresponsible, unprincipled hacks, they will have to live with the consequences, and they will have no one but themselves to blame.

NEXT: Biden Just Used a 'Far Right' SCOTUS Ruling To Oust a Trump Appointee

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  1. I don’t know, should 80% of Senate Democrates be expelled from the Senate also for inciting and bankrolling violence that left black children dead last year?

    1. That’s different because it was just the proles stuff that got destroyed and nobody put their boots up on Pelosi’s desk or sat in her chair.

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      2. Exactly. It's fine if a guy's car dealership burns to the ground and he loses 50 cars, but if someone poses with Pelosi's lecturn, or podium, or whatever the fuck, then those people are "insurrectionists" - then all of fucking democrat FBI mobilizes to track down every one of those people and arrest them, humiliate them, and prosecute them, and imprison them. Meanwhile, actual fascists' implementing fascist methodology, ironically calling themselves "anti-fascists" are destroying shit in the street, every fucking day, and Pelosi and crew don't say a damn thing, and their media buddies call them "mostly peaceful protests" and fucktard Jerry Nadler calls them literally a "myth."

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      3. I’m still quoting you.

        “Burning down plebian neighborhoods and looting their shops is just vox populi, but you better believe that some retard daring to put his feet up on Nancy Pelosi’s desk is an insurrection.”

    2. White Knight, whi calls himself “White Knight” because Tulpa made him mad, got banned then used Tulpas trick to hide it because he is embarrassed.

      But he got caught and is hiding behind his “Queen Amalthea” sock because he got told to sit down and shut up

      1. Jeebus, libertarian, give it a rest. You don’t like White Knight. You think he’s evading a banning (though what it takes to get banned here, short of actual child porn, escapes me). We get that. In fact, we got it the first 26 times. No one cares.

        1. Tulpa is spoofing names again. Ignore him.

        2. I've been banned twice here. I was literally back in 5 minutes verbally fucking the shit out of all of you here in the comments section.

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    4. “Should Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley Be Expelled From the Senate for ‘Insurrection’?”

      Should Jacob Sullum and Reason Be Expelled From Journalism for ‘Insurrection’?

    5. Sullum is 100% more delusional than any congressman today and there are some real nutjob democrats.

      Sullum is a mask pussy and traitor to america.

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  2. Fuck you Jacob.

    1. Word.

      Also, Jacob, prove those “delusions” are delusional, asshole.
      Get beat to death.

    2. “Delusion.” A word Sullum has never applied to the Russian Collusion scam.

      Fuck you Jacob, you shameless hack.

    3. That is the proper response. But I will go a step further.

      It is not much of a stretch to say that the people who participated in the deadly attack on the Capitol, which was aimed at preventing a duly elected president from taking office, did something similar.

      SERIOUSLY? Yes it is a HUGE stretch to say they did something similarly.

      They did NOTHING wrong. Sullum should be ashamed of writing this article. No libertarian would ever write such junk.

      1. Is Sullum clueless, retarded, delusional, or a useful tool for the progs? Porque no los quatro?

        How is it anyone on this planet can call the frat party that happened at the Capital an insurrection and believe it. You would have to be willfully ignorant.

        Last time I checked the way to take over a country is not with selfies, furry wear, and having the cops let you in the door.

        The fact that the media can spin that day as a serious attack on the Republic, incited by Trump and others, and that writers at Reason will regurgitate the same absurd spin is distressing. You would think that Reason would be opposed to creating new categories for enforcing authoritarian rule and labeling all dissenters, but then you would not have read unReason lately.

  3. Fuck you Jacob

    1. This, but double.

      Jacob is a hack and a propagandist.
      I counted six deliberate, purposeful lies in this article, that we know are lies, and he knows are lies, but yet he still repeats them.

      Jacob is also an inciter. Far more than Trump, or Cruz or Hawley ever were. Just for the “other side”.
      If Reason were legitimately a libertarian magazine, he would have been fired for deliberate dishonesty and demagoguery last year.

      1. He actually wrote this, LOL.

        It is not much of a stretch to say that the people who participated in the deadly attack on the Capitol, which was aimed at preventing a duly elected president from taking office, did something similar.

        Saying the election had fraud (it did) and the Capitol having protestors running around taking selfies… is not far off from the Civil War according to Sullum.

        Wow..

        1. YUP! I cannot believe he wrote it.

          Dude needs fired.

      2. They “engaged in insurrection” by promoting false beliefs about the election, which in turn inspired violence by some Trump supporters.>/i>

        The fact there was fraud is not even in question at this point. Dozens of people have been charged, we know 500 people voted twice in Ga (they just won’t be charged), thousands of votes found in recounts…

        Is Sullum still pretending cleanest election ever?

        1. No widespread fraud.

          1. Not what his article said though. They are now reverting back to no fraud.

      3. Cruz and Hawley violated their oaths to uphold the Constitution for the crassest of reasons.

        Both were explicitly clear their objections were to force an actual audit of the election through Congressional Committee. The same type of action taken in 2000, 2004, and 2016 by Democrats.

        Sullum is such a hack.

        1. Sullum makes the talking heads on The View look smart. This election was rife with fraud, from Zuckerberg’s $500 million ballot harvesting ground game to the millions of paper ballots that went through zero review to the big kahuna: Dominion Voting machines owned by Soros and counting our votes overseas on Solar Winds servers.
          The Left bought and paid for the Jan 6 “insurrection” to prevent Cruz and Hawley and 150 other political leaders from actually discussing the election fraud or having an audit. Jake Angeli is a paid actor who ended up the poster boy for the riot. He never looked concerned about being shot, did he?

        2. You can’t violate the constitution by debating on the floor of the house or Senate using pre-established legislative rules or statutes.

  4. ” . . . which was aimed at preventing a duly elected president from taking office, . . . ”

    Objection, your honor; supposition, assumes facts not in evidence.

    1. Yea I’ve been waiting to see any evidence of anything beyond making their voices heard and maybe delaying the outcome until a true review of the vote could be made. those who may have said they had violent intent could be prosecuted but speaking about corruption and wrong doing is still legal

    2. Sustained. What the filthy 13 in the Senate who stood on zero evidentiary grounds following prior rulings of 50+ federal district court pleadings and the SCOTUS which ruled on the matter. Additionally, certified election results delivered by the Electoral College. There were no legal grounds for what they proposed in asking Congress to invalidate the vote of the people in selected swing states. Legislators who enabled the insurrectionists who stormed the WH resulting in the deaths of five people are seditionists and merit removal from office. If being an accessory to murder, committing sedition, and insurrection are not grounds for removal, I don’t know what does rise to this level.

      1. You a) don’t know what “sustained” means, and b) you don’t know what being “an accessory” means. Go read a book.

  5. No, but they should be ostracized.

    1. Why?
      This is the crassest of hypocrisy on the left’s part.

      1. Inconveniently, it’s the Rule of Law but white wealthy influential people are the offenders. Had the offenders been of color, they would already be in jail. Apply equal justice under the law.

        1. Racist on the hoof, right here. Fuck off with your idiot racist bullshit, racist.

        2. Why have most of the black rioters who committed exponentially more violence and destruction this year not seen a jail cell and the white people who walked through an open door and took selfies are going to do jail time?

          Apply equal justice under the law.

  6. …who pressed their objections to President Joe Biden’s electoral votes even after that cause had led to a violent invasion of their own workplace?
    This morsel of bullshit is being used as justification to prevent any real thorough investigation into the election. Truth does not fear an investigation but the media and political class sure do, for some weird reason.

    1. Would the most free and fair election ever include:

      • A Democratic candidate doesn’t campaign and shows obvious signs of middle-stage dementia is anointed, after many alternative candidates are forcibly suppressed by the party
      • Media allies smothering huge negative stories about the Democratic candidate. Newspapers who dare to report it are blocked by social media
      • Barring and evicting election monitors in key locations from observing counting
      • In several key swing states, sudden midnight dumps of 100,000 or more votes occur, virtually all for the Democratic candidate
      • After four long years of claiming the election was stolen, it instantly becomes verboten to say the election was stolen. If you post that opinion on any social media account you are immediately banned.
      • After eight months of left-wing rioting, looting, burning down courthouses, an attack on the Senate and three attacks on the Whitehouse, a unarmed proletariat occupation of the capitol building for 3/4 of an hour is dubbed a coup and an insurrection.
      • In the DNC media dissent instantly goes from being the highest form of patriotism, to traitorous insurrection.
      • Calls for internment and reeducation camps for Republican candidate voters are made by high profile public figures
      • The people are banned from the inauguration, DC is filled with troops and razor wire
      • Troops are given a political test before being allowed to serve
      • Elected Democratic officials call for political purges in the military
      • High profile public figures call on citizens to report conservatives to the FBI so that they can monitor possible antigovernmental activities

      But none of this makes Jacob think that maybe things weren’t on the up-and-up.

      1. The 2020 Election was clean, Biden won, and what you are spouting is becoming known as the “Big Lie”. It is false and an affront to our democracy.

        1. Pretty good CNN talking head impression.

        2. “what you are spouting is becoming known as the “Big Lie””

          So you’re admitting you’re propagandzing?

        3. Of course it was because Biden had assembled the largest and most inclusive voter fraud team in American history.

          1. I think you give Biden too much credit.
            This has been planned for a long time, not necessarily only by democrat politicians, but by people who want fascism.
            Who has more unchecked power at this time, a political congress, or corporations who can literally take away you job for no articulated reason, and with no path of appeal?

        4. Pretty sure the “Big Lie” is being told by the people doing all the suppressing and censoring.
          I don’t think that you could possibly be so delusional as to think otherwise, so I’m just going to assume that you’re here to shill.

        5. Also, MollyGodiva Jeff, you dishonest fuck. Indicate even one point in what I wrote that didn’t happen.

          Even just one.

          1. “A Democratic candidate doesn’t campaign and shows obvious signs of middle-stage dementia is anointed, after many alternative candidates are forcibly suppressed by the party”

            Biden did campaign, and many campaigned for him also. He seems fine to me. And the primary was also clean. The voters choose Biden.

            1. Biden’s team called lids at eleven and he hardly left his home. Take your bullshit to more credulous pastures.

            2. And the primary was in no way clean. Ask any Sanders supporter.

              1. Unless threats and superdelegates are “clean” in your world.

            3. The primary that had some areas if the country reject 22% of ballots and had multiple indictments for fraud?

              1. Cleanest ever according to party shill MollyGodiva.

                It’s like the retard thinks last year was outside living memory.

            4. He seems fine to me

              lol

        6. Ignoring the concerns of 10s of millions of voters, even if they are wrong, is an affront to democracy and a recipe for making every election as stupid as this one and getting half of the electorate to lose faith in the system completely.
          I am not claiming that Trump really won. But to dismiss all concerns about this election as wacky conspiracy nuttery is also a big lie. There has never been a completely clean election. People will cheat to get ahead where they think they can get away with it. This is not news. If Biden really wanted to unite, he would call for a full investigation of all of the claims being made about the election. Even if they are all bogus, you aren’t going to convince people by accusing them of treason or of being stupid conspiracy nuts. And you need to convince those people or they will never trust another election and that would be really bad.

          1. Those people were outright lied to by Trump, the right wing media, and other Republicans. It is the responsibility for those liars to now fix what they broke and fess up to their supporters. It is in no way the job of Biden or the Ds to do anything to give the Big Lie any credibility.

            1. “He seems fine to me.”

            2. The only agent for the “Big Lie” here, is you.

            3. The biggest lie is the one the media coins a name for, e.g. Capitol Riots, The insurrection, the mostly peaceful protest and now this, actually borrowing from the 1940’s fascista. Notice the capital letters whenever you see it. It’s like a marketing slogan.
              Keep telling us all about The Big Lie!

              And out of all of ML’s talking points the one you use to bolster your argument is Sleepy Joe is fine? Yes, he showed his face a few times, mostly in his home town of Scranton. The machine did the rest.

              1. The Science!

            4. No one had to tell “those people” that the election was stolen. It was obvious from the minute it was claimed that Zhou Bai-din got more votes, in key urban areas, than the great messiah Barack 0blama had, while underperforming HiLIARy Clinton everywhere else.
              If your side thinks things were on the up and up, you wouldn’t be fighting, tooth and nail, to keep the records from being scrutinized.

          2. The issue is that there is no desire to “REALLY find out whats going on” their only goal is make the claims, then move the goalposts when they are addressed.

            There is no evidence they will accept the election, and that’s too bad for them. We just want a recount…another recount…a hearing…60 more hearings…an audit…why isnt anyone letting us have a SINGLE HEARING?! Why wont they take this up in court?! They dont want to hear the truth!

            After being laughed out of court over and over, they then called for their chosen elected officials to reverse the decision of the voters. These people have the exact thought process and methods of a child having a temper tantrum, and they can pound sand.

            Nothing will give them the realization that they lost zeb, there will always be another REAL audit they are looking for.

        7. Lol. It wasn’t clean. Nobody honest says there is zero fraud like you say here. The disagreement is how much. Only your side is refusing to put light onto the question.

        8. Not one single item listed was a lie. Not one.

    2. All for an investigation. The video evidence is before us. The on-line exchanges with insurrectionists already arrested from legislators is before us. The Congressional records of hearings is already before us. The probable cause is glaringly obvious. ACT
      ON IT.

  7. We should expel all Republicans and guarantee a one party government run by Democrats. Just like CA. Free minds and free markets. Questioning the Dems is treason and sedition, and an act of violence against all who fear the Republican death cult.

    Fuck you Reason.

    1. We should nuke DC while congress is in session. Repeat every 10 years whether it needs it or not.

      1. Wait until the wind is blowing from the southwest, please.

    2. This is equally insensible nonsense as the republicans declaring all democrats are socialists and communists. If it’s sarcasm, it’s design is inflammatory.

      Contribute something of substance besides negative, cliched hyperbole from 2016…

  8. So what about the Dems who supported Antifa attacking the federal courthouse?

    1. They were fighting injustice so its ok.

      Fuck you, Reason.

    2. Trump incited that riot too, by sending federal police to protect the building after it had been attacked several times.

      https://reason.com/2020/10/07/the-feds-invade-portland/

  9. Incidentally, here’s a photograph of thousands of Democrat insurrectionists storming the Wisconsin state capitol in 2011.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Gov_Walker_Protests1_JR.jpg

    Was anyone thrown out of the Wisconsin legislature for incitement or insurrection in 2011? I remember plenty of Democrats expressing their support.

    1. How about when the Capitol was occupied during the Kavanaugh hearings?

      Nah, we can’t enforce the law against Democrats.

      1. There’s an MSNBC video showing them banging on the senate doors and trying to break in to the session, and the announcer coos about their passion.
        But that’s different because fuck you.

        1. Yeah, but no shoes on the desk. So crass.

    2. Now that you mention it, I remember way back when operation desert storm began, a group of protesters occupied the state house in Oregon I believe. I remember some guy standing behind the speaker’s podium screaming, “we’re not leaving until we get answers!” I don’t recall any of those individuals being charged with insurrection or rebellion.

      1. They must have gotten answers.

  10. Section 3 was originally aimed at former Confederates, who inarguably engaged in “insurrection or rebellion.”
    Cruz is from Texas, Hawley is from Missouri. Both were part of the Confederacy.

    1. Missouri wasn’t.

    2. Missouri was not part of the Confederacy, but it was a near thing.

      1. I can give them a Missoura’ Boat Ride as punishment. – OJW

        https://youtu.be/EdvWOMRzr_M

    3. Wow. Both factually wrong and completely irrelevant.

    4. If you’re going to deflect, try not to lie so overtly.

      Also, aside from you fucking up over Missouri… although Cruz represents Texas, he’s originally from Calgary.
      Alberta never had slavery.

      1. Paleo-Indians arrived in Alberta at least 10,000 years ago, toward the end of the last ice age. They are thought to have migrated from Siberia to Alaska on a land bridge across the Bering Strait and then possibly moved down the east side of the Rocky Mountains through Alberta to settle the Americas. Others may have migrated down the coast of British Columbia and then moved inland. Over time they differentiated into various First Nations peoples, including the Plains Indian tribes of southern Alberta such as those of the Blackfoot Confederacy and the Plains Cree, who generally lived by hunting buffalo, and the more northerly tribes such as the Woodland Cree and Chipewyan who hunted, trapped, and fished for a living

        These tribal groups kept slaves, generally captured from other tribes, or those pesky whites.

    5. Missouri never joined or even tried to join, but the Confederacy and a particularly hostile former governor of Missouri named Sterling Price tried to make them. One of the stars on the (mostly) banned Confederate flag is supposed to represent Missouri.

    6. “Insurrection” by the Confederacy?
      As I recall my history, the Confederacy wanted to secede and be left to their own devices, rather than being an attempt to seize power over the rest of the country.
      Sure, they rebelled, but if Lincoln had pulled federal troops from Ft. Sumpter, and all other United States bases in the CSA, there would have been no war.
      Diplomacy probably would have restored the Union, without blood being spilled.

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  12. “Section 3 was originally aimed at former Confederates, who inarguably engaged in ‘insurrection or rebellion.’ It is not much of a stretch to say that the people who participated in the deadly attack on the Capitol, which was aimed at preventing a duly elected president from taking office, did something similar.”

    It’s an enormous stretch. The Confederates waged war, and organized into formal armies, for the express purpose of establishing a separate state. The rioters broke into a building and some of them fought with police, because they thought someone else actually won an election. Two things can be wrong without both being the same thing.

    1. Most of them were Antifa provacatuers anyway.

    2. Shoes on the desk. Come on, man!

  13. Who incited this?

    https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/14/homepage2/james-hodgkinson-profile/index.html

    “Trump is a Traitor. Trump Has Destroyed Our Democracy. It’s Time to Destroy Trump & Co.” he posted on his personal Facebook page on March 22.

    “Republicans are the Taliban of the USA,” he posted in February.

    1. https://thepoliticalinsider.com/rand-paul-reveals-key-new-detail-about-man-who-tried-to-assassinate-gop-lawmakers/

      Senator Rand Paul revealed that the man who opened fire on Republican lawmakers during a congressional baseball practice in Alexandria, Virginia, last year, shouted ‘This is for healthcare!’

      The information had thus far been ignored by the media well over a year after the mass assassination attempt.

      Paul was on the practice field when James Hodgkinson, armed with weapons and a target list of Republicans, nearly killed House Majority Whip Steve Scalise (R-LA).

      During an interview with “FOX & Friends,” Paul opened up about the motive.

      “I was there at the ball field when Steven Scalise almost died from a very, very angry violent man who was incited really by rhetoric on the left,” the Kentucky Senator said.

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    1. Are they as big of whores as Sullum?

  15. You morons in the media are more than welcome to try and make your case, Clickbait.

    There are about 15 million Texans that will definitely take issue with New Mexico ejecting their duly elected senator. Votes have consequences.

  16. I think they can get out of this by invoking mens urethra, or something.

  17. “If you accept that premise, it logically follows that politicians like Cruz and Hawley, who reinforced Trump’s fantasy by challenging electoral votes without any basis to believe they were not “regularly given” or “lawfully certified” (as required by the Electoral Count Act), are insurrectionists too.”

    It logically follows if you’re a moron, maybe. At least in the case of Trump it makes some marginal sense to claim that he incited a riot in the Capitol building, which could be construed to be insurrection if you were feeling uncharitable. It might be factually false, but it at least makes some kind of sense.

    Nothing these two did was remotely incitement.

    I’m normally a pretty peaceful guy, but if they start expelling members on that kind of BS premise, *I’d* be willing to drive up to DC and insurrect a bit.

    Oh, wait, that means Manchin is inciting me, so he’s an insurrectionist…

    1. Meanwhile:

      “there will be blood in the streets” – Loretta Lynch

      “Who says protests have to be peaceful “ – Chris Cuomo

      “There needs to be unrest in the streets” – Ayanna Pressley

      “Protesters should not give up” – Kamala Harris

      “ I just don’t know why they aren’t uprising all over this country “ – Nancy Pelosi

      “You get out and create a crowd and you push back on them, tell them they are not welcome” – Maxine W”

      I’m eagerly awaiting Sullum’s denouncement of all the above incitement.

      I mean if “Go home with love and peace, remember this day forever” is criminal incitement, what is the above?

      1. Don’t forget this one:

        “I want to tell you, Gorsuch, I want to tell you, Kavanaugh, you have released the whirlwind, and you will pay the price. You won’t know what hit you if you go forward with these awful decisions.”

        – Senator Chuck Schumer

  18. If this was a real insurrection, then it should go down as the most pitiful in history.

    1. Not to be a spelling Nazi but you misspelled it, and I have heard your problem can be helped with Cialis.

      Anyway, sorry you’re having problems.

    2. I don’t know how anyone can see the videos or any reasonable account of what happened and come away with the sense that it was a real threat to anything. There may have been a few people there with some nasty ideas, I don’t know. But for the most part it looks like a disorganized mob bum rushing the building. And as far as angry mobs go, it seems to have been much less destructive than many of the angry mobs we have witnessed in the past year.
      And I love how it’s always referred to as “leaving 5 dead”. I suppose that’s technically true in a sense, but as I understand it 3 people just dropped dead from heart attacks or something, one person was killed by police and one got an accidental bump on the head.

      1. 1 heart attack, one stroke, could have happened anywhere.
        1 trampling death, that IS kind of related.
        1 police shooting. Hey, don’t climb through a window when there’s a cop on the other side pointing a gun at you and telling you to stop.
        1 guy got hit with a thrown fire extinguisher and died later.

        There’s no question there were a few people there with very bad intent. Looks to me like the rest were provoked into entering to provide them with a distraction.

        1. Looked not too unlike your average sit-in, except for the police actually making somewhat of an effort to keep some of them out.
          Were all of those an “insurrection” of whatever place they were sitting?

          1. “Looked not too unlike your average sit-in”

            Ya, stand order sit in. For sure. So where in this peaceful sit in do the mobs screaming “fuck you traitors! were gonna fuck you up!”, the guys rushing in and climbing through windows in camo, and ziptie handcuffs come in? I mean that can only be interpreted as harmless.

            Fuck outta here with your history rewriting. There is video, on this thing called the youtubes.

  19. I’m from Texas and have never liked Cruz. And don’t know much about Hawley. And what they did was pretty stupid.

    But c’mon. Really? We’re going to seriously claim that their intent was to overthrow the US government?

    Every day I think we’ve reached peak ridiculous but we always manage to surpass it. Anybody who actually supports this should be expelled from Congress for being terminally stupid.

    1. It’s a plea by Manchin, he’s crying out in his horror: “Please, somebody do something so I’m not the swing member! The pressure is unbelievable, I want to go back to not mattering!”

      1. He’s the most powerful man in America.

        1. Until the check clears for whatever RINO is changing parties, yes.

  20. I’m curious, once we establish the principle that you are responsible for what other people do because you said some things that they agree with and took to extremes, do we apply it across the board or just to Republicans? When you go on about systemic racism and police brutality, and encourage people to take to the streets, and someone decides to burn down a business or shoot a cop, are you responsible? I mean, we all know the answer (right-wing-adjacent riots tar all Republicans and conservatives, left-wing-adjacent riots have deep underlying causes and don’t at all tar Democrats or progressives), but could we put in in writing or something?

    1. Some lawyer needs to organize a class action lawsuit on behalf of owners whose stores were destroyed by blmantifa and sue Pelosi, AOC, Harris, and anyone else who endorsed the riots.
      Hell, include Reason on that list.

    2. The Young Turks alone inspired several racially motivated murders. But they will never be held accountable because they are a part of the prevailing power structure.

      1. somehow Calvin always wins Calvinball

        1. Calvinball has no winner, because it never ends, it just is.

      2. Poor Armenians…

  21. How long before every outgoing administration imprisons the previous?

    1. Incoming imprisons outgoing I meant. Whatever. Who was the last president to not be impeached?

      1. >>Whatever

        you’re an idiot white knight

        1. Come on, dude. He’s not WK. And was asking a relevant question. If you absolutely have to be a dick, save it for when it’s deserved.
          Or don’t.

          1. dude *I* don’t call people idiots. most of the time I’m the idiot.

            1. OK, I don’t know what’s going on. I’ll just shut up.

              1. someone likes to be me once in awhile. the slight difference is I’m nicer.

                  1. someone else being me or me being nicer?

    2. You mean incoming administration?

      A few months, I suppose.

    3. I think we may already be at the point where every incoming President will automatically be impeached. It would certainly save a lot of time. The downside is less opportunity for Congressmen to pose and act out for the cameras.

    4. this will be the only one

      the whole point of jailing your opponents is so that they can’t win and someday return the favor

      the Venezuelan model works, a few lines of code and presto! you never lose another election

      1. Can we sue the wise-asses who kept posting “learn to code” here?

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  23. Fuck you, Reason

    https://twitter.com/YossiGestetner/status/1352630072801427456

    Imagine being a contemporary journalist, and instead of breaking news – let alone holding people in power – your job is to clean up after Dem politicians with whom you ideologically align.

    “Here’s why that’s false.”

    “Biden… created confusion by misstating his position.”

    1. As we all know, the purpose of journalism is to protect members of the Democratic Party. The more strenuously you defend them, the better you are at journalism and the more awards you get.

  24. They were trying to use constitutional means to challenge the election results. What is the point of having such means if they are never to be used?

    1. Pelosi herself objected in 2005.

    2. Several Democrats challenged in 2017 too.

  25. “Should Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley Be Expelled From the Senate for ‘Insurrection’?”

    70% of Republicans do not believe the election was free and fair.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/news/525388-poll-70-percent-of-republicans-dont-believe-election-was-free-and-fair

    Treating mainstream Republicans like they’re extremists does not change their minds about the results of the election. Persuading average Republicans that there is no place for them in democratic institutions (or civil society), however, will drive them to lose their faith in democratic institutions (and civil society).

    You are driving mainstream Republicans into the arms of the real extremists, and that is stupid.

    1. Mainstream Republicans, and libertarians, are considered terrorists more dangerous that al queda and isis.
      They will be treated as such regardless of what they actually do.
      Why then should they refrain from acting?

  26. I notice Sullum is still ignoring Cori Bush’s bill cosigned by 100 Democrats.

  27. Ted Cruz would have won the Republican nomination in 2016 if it weren’t for Donald Trump.

    Singling Cruz out now, merely for asking for an audit of the vote to assuage his constituents, by censuring him or removing him from the senate would almost certainly catapult him to winning the Republican nomination in 2020.

    1. Geeze, I hope not. Not a fan of the guy.

      Actually, I was only half joking above about feeling incited. If they were to start expelling Republican members, that’s like announcing, “We’re not going to let elections matter anymore!”

      The odds of real violence happening in response to that are pretty high.

      1. We’re already at that point…

      2. I have an innate distaste for Cruz, and I can’t put my finger on why. Mind you, I never liked Donald Trump at all before he won, and he turned out to be the best president in one hundred years.

        1. Maybe being likable isn’t what we should look for in a president. I still don’t know about Cruz, though. He’s a little too slick and muppety.

        2. A lot of Cruz hate is due to media narratives. He is by and large a federalist with many libertarian ideals. Watch some of his longer debates and he argues well. He even doesn’t despise the left as he has worked with AOC and didn’t seem like it was just to stare at her breasts.

        3. I’m not really sure myself. Two people in politics I can think of caused this reaction: Bill Clinton and Cruz.

          Both of them opened their mouths, and my BS detector pegged and exploded in a shower of sparks. The only word I can find for it is oleaginous.

          I don’t particularly like Trump, but I don’t get that reaction off him, either.

          1. I used to. When he was on TV in that reality show I found him repulsive. And he’s still irritating to listen to, but his results as president were fantastic.
            He accomplished more worthy achievements in the last four years than his predecessors in the last forty. By the beginning of 2018 I realized that he was truly exceptional.

            1. Since both Clinton and Cruz succeeded in lines of work where you actually do need functioning charisma, I can only conclude that this is what it feels like to not have charisma pointed at yourself, but instead somebody quite unlike you.

              I was an early cable cutter, so I really wasn’t particularly aware of Trump until he announced for President. Can’t say he ever did anything for me either way, I just thought he wasn’t going to be as awful as the alternative.

              Of course, just by pointing out how mind blowingly stupid some of the attacks on him were/are, I got labeled a Trump cultist. But, what’s new? I got called a “Birther” because I thought they were entitled to lose in court, on the merits.

      3. rigging two elections announces that.

    2. He wont be winning any nomination. His cuck energy is too high now.

      Kind of hard to be the frontman for the “love it or leave it, these colors dont run, murrica!” party when you openly let an insecure wanna be tough guy call your wife a fat cow, your dad a serial killer, and you end up crawling to his feet for scraps.

      Donald might as well have cum on his face on national TV for all to see, he is damaged goods now.

  28. On the surface, Cruz seems more personable, articulate, and politically savvy than Trump so I could see the Trumpian populist side swinging towards him. I guess the Dems need to establish the narrative that he’s a racist, homophobic, extremist early.

  29. May 2, 1967: Two dozen armed Negroes entered the state Capitol at noon today and 10 made their way to the back of the Assembly Chamber before they were disarmed and marched away by the state police.

    The Assembly was in session at the time and Speaker Pro Tem Carlos Bee ordered the men removed from the chamber.

    Outside the chamber, the police took away the weapons. The men argued they could carry the weapons as long as they were not concealed.

    Apparently the fact the weapons were not concealed was the reason the men were able to get as far as the Assembly Chamber before they were disarmed.

    After the state police questioned the men, they returned the weapons to them because the intruders had broken no law.

    Following their release by the state police, the men left the Capitol and rejoined some companions who remained outside during the incident. They then drove off.

    Four or five carloads of the Black Panther group later drove into a service station at 15th and L Streets. Several police officers took the demonstrators to the city jail.

    An officer said they had not been charged with any offense, but added: “We’re going to take them all down and check them all out and we’re going to check out all these weapons.”

    Black panthers, protesting gun control.

    1. Reminds me how much the country has changed in regards to gun control since I was a kid. Marksmanship was a PE elective in high school. Firearms were sold mail order in the backs of magazines. Hunters took their guns as carry on baggage flying.

      Try to bring back any of that and people tell you, “You can’t do that, it would be a bloodbath!”, but it obviously wasn’t.

  30. Objecting to the counting of the EC votes if one candidate has the majority of the EC votes is clearly unconstitutional. However, there is a 1877 law that says they can. So I will give them a grudgingly pass on their unconstitutional effort to subvert the will of the voters.

    1. “is clearly unconstitutional”

      Speech is Unconstitutional?

      Cite that.

    2. If there is a law that says they can, why is it unconstitutional?

    3. Objecting to the counting… is clearly unconstitutional.”

      What the fuck!

  31. A year ago people were predicting an impeachment backlash. I’m going to predict an expulsion backlash. (And if I’m wrong, feel free to point out that impeachment didn’t do a lot for Trump’s approval rating or voter turnout.)

    1. Open position for everybody! Work from solace of your home, on your PC And you can work with your own working hours. You can work this work As low maintenance or As A regular work. You can procure from 65$ An hour to 1000$ A day! There is no impediments, everything depends from you And the amount you need to acquire every day…. ONLINE WORK

    2. Trump gained (at least) 10 million votes

      1. The real election tally was probably one of the biggest victories in history, and I think that’s why the establishment is acting so terrified and doing everything that they can to suppress the proles.

        1. THIS x 10000

        2. LMAO!

          Absolutely so far gone you cant even tell.

          Sure ML, biggest victory ever 😉

          1. Lol The hamsandwich that pretends to have a brain! 😀

  32. Timothy Leary’s stated goal was to overthrow the US Government.

    1. Isn’t that the point of libertarianism?

        1. To be more clear, there are anarcho- capitalist/utopian wings of libertarians who want a regime that would basically leave the federal government gutted, or would render anything we would recognize as a government essentially meaningless– leaving a power vacuum that would immediately filled with something entirely unlibertarian- because it foolishly believes that everyone else will follow the rules as libertarians see them. Ie, inside every Mexican and Canadian is a libertarian trying to get out. All we need to is eliminate the international borders between the false social constructs known as government and voila! a group of free trading NAP abiding market-based utopia with the full and free movement of people will emerge.

          1. Our government is tyrannical isn’t it our duty to overthrow it and install one which doesn’t violate our liberty?

  33. I’ve pretty much had it up to here with the faux patriotic indignation from the Democrats. They spend pretty much all of 2020 demanding we “burn it all down” and now suddenly our vaunted institutions must be protected from the mean tweets and rhetoric of a couple of b-list politicians.

    1. Shoes on the desk. The straw that broke the camel’s back.

    2. Saw the perfect illustration in a meme this morning.
      Picture of the Capitol with the fencing, razor wire and troops.

      Caption.
      Funny how the ones always talking about guns and walls have surrounded themselves with guns and walls.

      1. Not funny at all.
        I now understand what happened in Germany and Italy last century.

  34. You know who was an insurrectionist? George Washington.

    1. That’s probably why they had his statue draped in burning US flags and toppled.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6qey3mmdzo

      1. nah they probably just mistook him for the elk

  35. A distinction which I’d like to hear discussed (eg on Volokh): Does the Senate or House need a 2/3 vote or a majority to exclude a member based on Section 3 of the 14th Amendment?

    The Supremes naturally discussed this in Powell v. McCormack, saying that excluding a member as unqualified (which only needs a majority) can only be done based on a finding that the would-be member is too young, hasn’t been a citizen long enough, or doesn’t live in the state he wants to represent. Other actions to kick out a member can only be done through expulsion, which needs two-thirds.

    But by analogy, if a would-be member violated Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, aren’t they just as unqualified as if they were too young, etc?

    I mention this, not because I think Cruz and Hawley were insurrectionists (which is beyond ridiculous), but because I’m wondering about a future Republican Senate or House which may want to exclude Democrats for anti-police rhetoric during last years’ riots. If it only takes a majority, then all that need happen is for Republicans to take over one house and go to town.

    1. “I’m wondering about a future Republican Senate or House”

      Crazy dreamer. The last real election you Americans are ever going to see was in 2018.

      1. No, 2016 was the last real election, because the LieCheatSteal party thought they didn’t need the fraud machine for HiLIARy to beat Trump.
        Ever since it has been running, in high gear.
        2024 it will probably be put into overdrive, especially if Trump runs.

  36. Fuck Sullum. TDS ridden little cunt.

  37. meanwhile antifa/BLM rioted for the billionth consecutive day and were promptly patted on the back and released by Democrat AGs but that’s different because shut up racist

  38. Interesting; The only TWO who won’t demonize anyone who questions the election are now in front of the Witch-Hunting trial board?

    It’s actually quite obvious; The Democrats are enacting MASSIVE and unprecedented “Cancel Culture” Justice on anyone who dare’s question their OBVIOUS election fraud. Don’t forget the very reason a battle exists or the battle itself becomes unknown and just for the sake a battling.

    1. ….And a play-by-play by the Biden Administration Executive Orders..
      1) Expand immigration
      2) Consensus to include all illegals.
      3) Speedy path to citizenship
      4) Stop work on the border

      NOT A SINGLE ONE about Election Authenticity; but actually quite the contrary.

      1. Which is kind of weird seeing how Pelosi had claimed the 2016 election was stolen by Russia and Biden had assembled the largest most inclusive voter fraud team in American history a week before the election.

      2. Nor a single thing to help the American people.

    2. Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter, founder of the Carter Center, said: “Of the 92 elections that we’ve monitored, I would say that the election process in Venezuela is the best in the world.”

    3. The electoral system further proved its worth during the 2013 presidential elections in a narrow battle between Nicolas Maduro and opposition party candidate Henrique Capriles, following the death of Chavez. Nearly 80 percent of eligible voters cast their ballots, giving Maduro the win with a margin of only 1.49 percent.

      In 2015, the main Democratic Unity Roundtable (MUD) opposition party ran in the legislative elections and won by a landslide, taking a two-thirds majority in the National Assembly. It marked the right-wing’s first win since before Chavez’s election in 1998.

      However, the opposition-led parliament disregarded CNE evidence that some members were voted in fraudulently and remained illegitimate.

      Consequently, the Supreme Court voted to annul all decisions made by the National Assembly in November 2016.

      President Nicolas Maduro announced his plans to clean house and replace the National Assembly with a new body of delegates: the National Constituent Assembly (ANC).

  39. 530 self-important babies who don’t know what insurrection means lol

  40. Fuck you, Reason

    https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2021/01/22/biden-press-secretary-jen-psaki-fails-to-condemn-antifa-violence-n1406106

    The Trump administration repeatedly made clear that they condemned the violence caused by BLM and antifa rioters. Why won’t the Biden administration do the same thing?

    The truth is, this isn’t shocking at all. Kamala Harris called the BLM protests, which resulted in an estimated $1 – $2 billion in property damage between May 26 and June 8, 2020, and dozens of deaths, including that of retired St. Louis police officer David Dorn, a “movement” that “should not” stop.

    “They’re not going to stop. They’re not going to stop. This is a movement, I’m telling you. They’re not gonna stop. And everyone beware because they’re not gonna stop. They’re not gonna stop before Election Day and they’re not going to stop after Election Day. And everyone should take note of that. They’re not gonna let up and they should not.”

    At least 13 Biden campaign staffers posted on Twitter about their donations to the Minnesota Freedom Fund to pay bail fees of rioters in Minneapolis, and Kamala Harris also promoted the group on Twitter.

    Joe Biden and Kamala Harris didn’t condemn the BLM riots that plagued cities nationwide like Portland, Minnesota, Seattle, Atlanta, Chicago, and Kenosha over the summer until polling suggested that they needed to. Joe Biden also refused to condemn BLM and antifa thugs who attacked Trump supporters in Washington, D.C., in November.

    1. So she’s actually calling for insurrection NOW.

      1. She was calling for insurrection then, not now.
        It is not needed now, the political front of the insurrectionists has taken power.

  41. Sshshush. Reason, please have the shill author go away and put someone decent back on.

  42. Wouldn’t there first have to be an actual rebellion or insurrection for them to engage in? And if the violent Capital protest were somehow redefined as such, doesn’t the fact that the Senators didn’t engage it in make the point moot?

    1. You’re kind of unclear about the idea of “pretexts”; They don’t actually need to be true, as such.

  43. This article comes very close to saying if as Sen. Cruz proposed an audit was done on how ballots were counted it would have overturned the election. 50% of the country know the election was rigged and what Sen. Cruz proposed was to give them confidence in the system by doing an emergency audit to give the contested elections transparency. It could also be said the Democrats who fought against and spent millions against allowing the elections to be looked at were responsible. It added to the suspicion. The Senators that proposed the audits were representing what their constituents demanded. Isn’t that the job they were elected to do.
    What is happening in our government at the present time sounds an awful lot like what happens in Russia or China when the government is challenged. Saying the allegations of a stolen election are baseless and false without proof or considering all the whistleblowers testimony doesn’t make it so. Because of what is known, the undecided Supreme Court cases still pending and the effort to keep how the elections were done hidden seems to add to the case it was a stolen election. When the government has to force the people to accept an election with military force instead of listening to the voice of the people we have taken a large step toward the regimes and authoritarian governments we supposedly oppose and are not like.

    1. We are like them now.

    2. Wrong place.

  44. “The Dems afraid of setting dangerous precedent” ?. The writer acts like at a furture date that what the dem’s are doing might be used against them – what a naive comment.
    The Dems are not concerned in the lease about Precedent
    By precedent they have stolen the Whit house through election theft , By Precedent they have stolen the majority of the Senate by a repeat election theft in Georgia By Precedent Biden is cancelling virtually every thing Trump had accomplished in perhaps as little as 10 days. Now they want to Impeach Trump on the 8th of February? They are therefor obliged to also impeach any elected GOP member who spoke in Trumps favor not just Hawley, Cruz and Mo Brooks. The Dems are going after any Patriot like Hyenas on steroids.

  45. Which is kind of odd seeing how Pelosi had claimed the 2016 election was stolen by Russia and Biden had assembled the largest most inclusive voter fraud team in American history a week before the election.

  46. Yeah! Nothing says “Unity” like a political witch hunt!

    Fuck you, Jacob.

  47. Everybody understands that, if allowed, the Democrats are going to destroy their political enemies, right?

    While they seem like mere rabid assholes, frothing at the mouth, their attacks on Cruz (with help from Reason, by the way) is very calculated. Cruz is probably their biggest threat to the presidency in 2024 and therefore needs to be destroyed.

  48. That punishment for reinforcing the delusions that drove the Capitol riot is highly unlikely, and it would set a troubling precedent.

    Boy, talk about the fucking understatement of the year.

    Look we all know you hate Trump, and these senators dared to defend him, and that’s why you’re treating this with such kid gloves.

    That said, the answer to the question is “Hell No!”. There is NO WAY senators should be expelled for defending peoples’ free speech, or for having a different opinion than the editors of Reason.

    Christ.

  49. The urge for vengance runs strong on the extreme left. So “damn the torpedos, full steam ahead.”

  50. Irony = Sullum talking about “delusions” . . .

  51. The five deaths at the capital “riot”: https://nypost.com/2021/01/07/who-are-the-four-who-died-in-the-dc-protest-at-the-capitol/

    Three medical emergencies (heart attack, etc), one was trampled, and a police officer allegedly clubbed with a fire extinguisher.

    It was not exactly the shoot out at the OK corral.

  52. Commies at unreason need to daily show how big of traitors they are to america.

    Helping the commies destroy america via commie propaganda.

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