George Floyd

Derek Chauvin Blames His Former Colleagues for George Floyd's Death

The former Minneapolis police officer, who kneeled on Floyd's neck for more than eight minutes, says two other cops failed to de-escalate the situation.

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Derek Chauvin, the former Minneapolis police officer who kneeled on George Floyd's neck for more than eight minutes, plans to argue that the responsibility for Floyd's death lies largely with two former colleagues. Those inexperienced cops, he says, failed to de-escalate a confrontation that began when they tried to arrest Floyd for attempting to use a counterfeit $20 bill, a misdemeanor. While there is plenty of blame to go around, Chauvin's defense strategy seems more than a little iffy in light of his behavior that day and his history of using restraints like the one that killed Floyd.

Chauvin is charged with second-degree murder in connection with Floyd's May 25 death, which provoked nationwide protests against police brutality. He also faces lesser charges of third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter. Thomas Lane and J. Alexander Kueng, the officers who arrested Floyd outside of Cup Foods, a convenience store and take-out restaurant on Chicago Avenue, are charged with aiding and abetting either second-degree murder or second-degree manslaughter. So is Tou Thao, an officer who stood by as his three colleagues restrained a handcuffed Floyd face down on the pavement, dismissing the concerns of onlookers who repeatedly warned that Floyd's life was in danger.

All three officers theoretically face up to 25 years in prison for unintentional second-degree murder, although the presumptive penalty under Minnesota's sentencing guidelines is about 12 years. Yet their culpability in Floyd's death covers a wide range.

"As is evident from pretrial pleadings, the other three defendants are prepared to place the blame for Mr. Floyd's death squarely on Mr. Chauvin's shoulders," Chauvin's lawyer, Eric Nelson, writes in a motion for separate trials. Nelson suggests that version of events is inaccurate given the full context of the incident.

Nelson is right that Lane and Kueng handled the arrest poorly. As Reason's Scott Shackford has noted, Lane set the tone for the encounter by pointing a gun at Floyd's head immediately after approaching him as he sat in a parked car. A terrified Floyd begged Lane not to shoot him but eventually calmed down and was compliant as he was handcuffed. As Lane and Kueng tried to put Floyd in the back seat of their squad car, however, he seemed to have a panic attack, saying he was claustrophobic, complaining that he could not breathe, and asking if he could ride in the front seat. The two officers repeatedly tried to force a resistant Floyd into the car.

That was the situation Chauvin confronted as he and Thao arrived at the store. "If Kueng and Lane had chosen to de-escalate instead of struggle, Mr. Floyd may have survived," Nelson says. "If Kueng and Lane had recognized the apparent signs of an opioid overdose and rendered aid, such as administering naloxone, Mr. Floyd may have survived."

The autopsy report on Floyd from the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office, which described his death as a homicide, noted fentanyl and methamphetamine in his blood. The level of fentanyl, 11 nanograms per milliliter, was near the low end of the concentrations seen in deaths attributed to the drug. According to a 2012 review in the Journal of Forensic Research, "individuals injecting fentanyl have reported with postmortem blood concentrations of 4.9 to 27 ng/mL" and "as high as 240 ng/mL in heart blood."

Nelson also blames a tardy emergency medical response for Floyd's death. "If EMS had arrived just three minutes sooner," he says, "Mr. Floyd may have survived."

While those criticisms are valid, the autopsy report says Floyd's death was caused by "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression." An independent autopsy commissioned by Floyd's family concluded that he died from "mechanical asphyxiation." Both reports agree that the manner of death was homicide.

The "subdual" and "restraint" were assisted by Lane, who held Floyd's legs, and Keung, who applied pressure to his back. The "neck compression" was inflicted by Chauvin, who according to prosecutors had used similar techniques during arrests on at least seven other occasions. In four of those cases, prosecutors say, Chauvin used neck or upper-body restraints "beyond the point when such force was needed under the circumstances."

Current Minneapolis Police Department policy, consistent with an agreement reached in June, prohibits the use of chokeholds and other neck restraints. Prior policy allowed the use of such techniques "for life saving purposes" or on subjects "exhibiting active aggression" or "active resistance," although the specific maneuver that Chauvin used on Floyd was not sanctioned or taught at the police academy.

Chauvin didn't just use an unapproved technique. According to prosecutors, he kept using it despite Floyd's pleading and complaints that he could not breathe, despite the vocal objections of concerned bystanders, and despite Lane's repeated suggestion that Floyd should be rolled off his stomach and onto his side. Chauvin kept his knee on Floyd's neck past the point where Floyd became nonresponsive, after he stopped breathing, and for about two minutes after a pulse could no longer be detected. Any mistakes made by the other officers—especially Thao, whose main sin was failing to intervene and deferring to Chauvin, the senior officer on the scene—pale by comparison.

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  1. Me, I blame the lethal fentanyl overdose

    1. George Floyd forfeited his life when he violated the Non-Aggression Principle (NAP) by using fake currency.

      1. I haven’t seen any evidence that he did. Have you? Please post it.

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        2. I came to the comments to ask if anyone had seen the counterfeit bill. It’s probably stored in the drawer with the Tuttle ballistics report.

      2. You think that is some sort of supposedly clever rejoinder, but it is in fact what happened. Be injested copious amounts of a substance that suppresses lung and heart function, and in fact agressed against his own cardiopulmonary system

        1. According to this logic, if someone is drowning and you shoot them, it’s totally fine because they were about to die anyway.

          1. Jeff like metaphor detected.

            1. JesseAz-like nonsensical reply detected.

              1. Its so cute how you lefties stick together.

                Nobody was shot. The metaphor isn’t even fucking apt dummy.

                At least he got the drowning part right.

                1. I think Jesse just loves being embarrassed. It’s not an unusual fetish, and NTTIAWWT.

                  1. Lol. God you’re sad chipper.

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                  2. Like when JesseAz chimed in on the story about customs and the ear buds this morning, without reading the linked article:

                    https://reason.com/2020/09/14/the-messy-tiktok-sale-is-what-happens-when-governments-get-involved-in-social-media/#comment-8457648

                    1. against the community guiadline..READ MORE

              2. Non-sensical — and dismissive, too!

            2. A lot of this will depend on whether or not Chauvin was following a procedure which was taught by the Minneapolis police department for use on “excited delirium” arrestees. Then, a more apt metaphor would be throwing a life preserver with a rope attached to a drowning man and pulling the rope to get him to shore but the rope is wrapped around his neck and he strangles. He was attempting a proper procedure and possibly doing it correctly, but for whatever reason, Floyd died.

              One irony of this is that if the jury acquits Chauvin, or convicts him of a lesser charge because jurors thought he was following a procedure that was considered proper by the department, it would help the civil case that Floyd’s family filed against the department. If Chauvin was following the procedure he had been taught, then it is easier for the family to argue that the liability lies with the department for teaching a faulty technique. The city has more money than Chauvin personally, so the family gets more money.

          2. I think it’s more like, if a person is in water over their head and you shoot them. If they had stayed in shallow water, they probably could just get out and walk to hospital but they were stupid enough to go into deep water right before you shot them even though they didn’t know you were going to shoot them while they were there.

            I don’t see anything that says drug overdose (if I’m wrong, I’m sure someone will polite enough to point it out). IOW, he wasn’t facing death, he was just high like he’d done before and most of the people on here have done.

            1. OD is a relative term, as what it is to one person is not to another. However, with a blood level of 11 and other OD deaths as low as 4.9 being reported, yes it was in the range where it could have [has] killed someone. Not likely responsible in this case, but potentially part of a confluence of factors, the culmination of which did cause death. Do a crime and fight the cops while on narcotics and the potential for bad shit in your life is going to go up pretty fast. The question in my mind is whether the police had reason to suspect that he was on drugs and therefore potentially more vulnerable.

            2. The word “overdose” is wrong because there’s no proper dose for fentanyl. You can overdose on sleeping pills but until you know what a dose is, how can you say that X is an overdose? Okay, yes we commonly talk about heroin overdoses – it’s just technically incorrect.

              More relevant is what the actual dose was. And as the article above states, the blood test showed a dose at the low end of what is commonly associated with death. In other words, others with that same dose generally do not die. So while it’s possible that he would have died from the fentanyl alone, it is unlikely.

              1. The stat on dosing doesn’t imply that the dose was unlikely to result in deaths.

                “The level of fentanyl, 11 nanograms per milliliter, was near the low end of the concentrations seen in deaths attributed to the drug.”

                In this stat the set of doses being considered all resulted in death, and 11 ng/ml is near the low end.

                The article doesn’t provide any info on numbers of people who received a similar dose without dying.

                To make an analogy, suppose someone died after being shot once. Knowing that being shot once is, to make up a number, 10th percentile for shooting deaths, tells you nothing of the lethality of being shot once. You’d need to know about people who were shot once and survived in order to speak on lethality.

                1. “near the low end for fentynal doses resulting in death”. Much more than enough for insanity and super human strength.

              2. https://www.peele.net/lib/heroinoverdose.html
                The Persistent, Dangerous Myth of Heroin Overdose

                1. You can argue endlessly about the meaning of the word “overdose”.

                  The fact remains that most of the deaths classified as “overdoses” wouldn’t have happened if the person had taken less/no heroin.

          3. Have you seen these people’s covid plan?

          4. Goddamn you’re an idiot Chip. That isn’t the point at all. The article talks like a Floyd was having a panic attack when in fact he was starting to feel the effects of the lethal does of Fentanyl he infested prior to his encounter with the LEOs.

            Which is relevant, as it appears that Floyd was doomed anyway. Not that I’m condoning having that cop kneel on his neck for eight minutes.

            1. Chipper tried coming off of his sock after embarrassing comments made by said sock. He is having a bad week.

          5. Perfect reply. Perhaps the fentanyl meant he died in minute six of the kneeling instead of minute eight, but the kneeling killed him.

      3. Leave this kind of thing to OBL.

      4. WTF? Did you read the briefs? This particular technique WAS taught at the academy, so you’re either ignorant or lying.

      5. Yet another reason to fire ALL COPS. They don’t do SHIT to reduce crimes, and they are often, as in this case, the reason for the crime!! These shits should go to prison, maximum security so they can be with all the REAL bad guys. I would also hope that their time (life it should be) in prison would give them many chances to get their cop anuses opened up so wide as to give them at least SOME of the HELL they gave this hardly a criminal but now dead man.

    2. So you think the correct emergency medical procedure for a fentanyl overdose is to have three grown men kneel on the person?

      1. Did the cops know he was ODing on fentanyl?

      2. doesnt matter. He didnt volunteer he had injested anything, and they had no way of knowing. Nothing they did short of administering ER level medical care would have mattered, and he wouldnt sit still for that. if he had gotten in a car before Chauvin got there, he might, Might have had time to get to the ER when serious distress kicked in.

        1. They could have administered Narcan.

          1. That is the first step on the path to socialized medicine! What next? Free condoms? Free PreP? Free insulin? Free clotting factors for hemophiliacs? Why should my tax dollars be used to save degenerate drug addicts?

          2. So, does Narcan work on fentanyl? Yes, it does, but there are some things to keep in mind. While Narcan can work on fentanyl overdoses, these situations often happen extremely quickly, so it can be tough to act quickly enough.

            https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/fentanyl-addiction/related-topics/does-narcan-work-on-fentanyl/

            Are we adding medical experts to the requirements of police now? At what point can we blame Georges own decisions?

            1. At what point can we blame Georges own decisions?

              Never. I am assured by many a white liberal that adult black Americans are essentially brain dead and devoid of agency, which is why they need so many white liberals to not only be outraged on their behalf, but to tell them who is and isn’t authentically black.

              1. The technical term you are looking for is “Marxist dialectical materialism”.

              2. This particular black American is brain dead and devoid of agency because some white trash cop choked him to death.

                1. choked him to death

                  I’m sorry to inform you that your being an unskilled liar doesn’t really make up for the fact that you’re also a moron.

                  1. Why don’t you ask your mom about my skills.

                    1. Ask her what? About how well you can cut her hair or do a floral arrangement for her.

                      And stay out of the local bathhouses. Nothing says ‘superspreader’ like you bending over in a wide stance there in a Saturday night.

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                2. The autopsy says otherwise, but you’re incapable of believing anything else.

          3. As to whether he had told them he ingested anything, he had said he had been “hooping”, one of the Urban Dictionary definitions of which is taking psychoactive drugs rectally. As far as the Narcan, I don’t think police are trained in administering it, so it would have been done by paramedics, who had been called.

        2. Man, imagine being such a pos that you justify someone dying for a counterfeit 20.

          1. Man, imagine being so desperate to be a white savior you don’t think black people are responsible for their own drug ODs.

        3. The two autopsies apparently agree that the knee on neck was teh cause of death.

          1. Not quite. It was involved as one of multiple factors, but not “the” cause of death. Per the Hennepin Co. Med. Ex. report the cause of death was, “cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression.” The devil is very much in the details here.

          2. Shocking. ABC is ignorant on another subject.

            https://spectator.org/minnesota-v-derek-chauvin-et-al-the-prosecutions-dirty-little-secret/

            They hid the primary report until August 26th. It showed lethal levels of fentanyl and lungs 3x normal weight, suggesting fentanyl death. The examiner changed it to cops as being the cause only after the video. His initial view was an overdose.

            Way to be wrong yet again.

        4. You are assuming that he had a lethal overdose in his body. That is far from clear. Death from opioid OD is usually from respiratory depression. If he was freaking out and causing a scene, that wasn’t what was going on.
          It may well have contributed to his death, and the fact that it has barely been reported on is ridiculous, but it does not look like a reasonable assumtion that he was going to die from an OD anyway.

          1. Dr. Baker, the chief medical examiner, had to concede that at 11 ng/mL, Floyd had “a fatal level of fentanyl under normal circumstances.” He also conceded that the fentanyl overdose “can cause pulmonary edema,” a frothy fluid build-up in the lungs that was evidenced by the finding at autopsy that Floyd’s lungs weighed two to three times normal weight.

            1. “…frothy fluid build-up in the lungs that was evidenced by the finding at autopsy that Floyd’s lungs weighed two to three times normal weight.”

              I’m not an MD or ME. Floyd was a big dude. Were those overweight lungs, overweight for a 6’6, 265 pound guy, or overweight for the average male?

              1. Medical examiners tend to not be dumb, and lungs of a 250 lb man aren’t 3x the weight of a 190 lb man. They generally have average guidelines for organs for autopsies, why they weighed it.

          2. You are assuming that he had a lethal overdose in his body.

            Those of us who have actually read the autopsy reports don’t need to assume anything, unlike those…like you…who insist on spouting off without having any idea what you’re talking about.

            1. It is getting pretty pathetic from the leftist side that resides here. This evidence is put, but it doesn’t fit their initial narrative and the media would never lie to them. You can actually see the same shit happening with the latest Lancaster shooting.

              https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2020/09/14/facts-be-damned-drew-holden-torches-dems-media-and-blue-checks-over-lancaster-narrative-in-epic-receipt-filled-thread/

              But the idealist/anarchists/libs that come here won’t let pesky facts get in their way.

              1. “We choose truth over facts.”

              2. If Floyd had a lethal dose of an opioid in his system, he certainly did not display physical behaviors consistent with an opioid overdose. Opioid overdoses most often result in unconsciousness would not explain why the PO thought he needed to be subdued.

                1. He had a previous arrest where he swallowed his stash to avoid a charge and was taken to a hospital.

                  Fentanyl deaths happen quickly. As per the article above.

                  He complained of not breathing before any physical altercation occurred.

                  Look, I know there is a desperation here to blame everything bad on the cops, but the floyd case is a terrible case to hang your flag on.

                  Tony Timpa is a much better case to make a movement against brutality out of, but wrong skin color.

                  1. I’m not seeking to make a martyr of Floyd or blame cops for everything bad. I’m just trying to piece together the evidence in a plausible sequence of events. The actions of the cops needing to subdue an allegedly unruly man does not seem to square with a man about to die from an opioid overdose. Was he being combative before the fentanyl took effect? Quite possibly. If he was a habitual user, it is possible that dose was not lethal to man his size and experience. The cops actions warrant a grand jury investigation to me.

            2. Well that will happen when you have your carotid arteries, internal jugular veins and trachea compressed and respiratory compromise from another force applied to your chest.

              Flash pulmonary edema has multiple causes. It can be divided into carcinogenic or noncardiogenic. Traumatic brain injury is a known cause of noncardiogenic pulmonary edema. As his brain quickly failed from being choked to death a cascade of events likely rapidly occurred. Whatever respiratory drive he had left was compromised by the weight on his chest.

              The alveoli in your lungs are thin membranes. They rely on a number of factors both biochemical and physical to keep you from drowning in your own fluids right now. He had both of those going against him. So when you are being choked to death and your brain is winking out that is a deadly move to kill someone. Your lungs fill up with your own fluids near the moment when they fail. By then you are probably dead or dying already.

              He did not present as a classical OD from opioids. Which is no reason to do what they did to him in the first place.

              It may have contributed, morphine is actually a drug used in cardiogenic pulmonary edema as it has been thought to produce venous dilation and preload reduction to the heart. That has been questioned but I digress.

              We saw it. There is no excuse. The cops killed this man without reasonable cause. He was no threat to them.

              It has nothing to do with idiot lefty righty politics. I don’t care. How anyone can defend this is beyond me.

              1. So youre ignoring every fact from the medical report that counters your preconceived and preferred narrative. Got it.

                Explain why he was complaining he couldn’t breathe prior to ever being touched or restrained.

                1. You have read the medical report? The actual one. Have you ever read any medical report? You would not understand it if you did.

                  So this is my best estimate of what occurred. He was up and breathing until they put him on the pavement.

                  Crappy news articles. Opinion pieces. That is the source for you guys.

                  We all saw it. I know what I saw. The cops killed him. He died from asphyxia and lack of circulation to the brain. He was strangled. They kept up the pressure after he was non responsive and he was dead.

                  Why did he say that. We call it dyspnea. It means difficulty breathing for one reason or another. He may have been frightened, anxious, that is a very common cause. Perhaps the most common. He may have had other medical conditions. Drugs on board. Seems he did. Then they put him in a brutal hold which could only make that worse.

                  But why am I bothering to explain that to you. That man did not need to die. I know things about death, trauma and life. More than I will say here. A lifetime worth. He was killed by those police officers.

                  So go ahead and defend his death if that is where you want to stand.

                  1. JesseSPAZ hates blacks and thinks that they all deserve to be killed by the cops, on whatever pretenses can be found. Facts will never change the supposed “mind” of JessSPAZ.

        5. He was in the car. He then claimed he couldn’t breathe and got out of the car.

          1. He actually said it first before even getting in the car.

        6. I believe Floyd had explicityly denied that he was on anything.

        1. From this Daily Beast article: https://www.thedailybeast.com/minneapolis-police-department-trained-officers-to-use-neck-restraint-that-killed-george-floyd-manual-shows

          I’d think you might still get Chauvin on some negligent homicide charge, but good luck overcoming reasonable doubt with those training materials and toxicology report mentioned by Mr. Sullum. Two, probably three of those guys, are going to walk. Chauvin might too.

          And Minneapolis will burn.

          1. Negligent homicide is the only charge an objective jury could reach.

      3. If I learned anything from Lou reeds song street Hassel the proper responece is:
        I know this ain’t no way to treat a guest
        But why don’t you grab your old lady by the feet
        And just lay her out in the darkest street
        And by morning, she’s just another hit and run

      4. So you think the correct emergency medical procedure for a fentanyl overdose is to have three grown men kneel on the person?

        The primary job of police is to contain violent threats and protect themselves and the public. Administering emergency medical procedures is secondary to that.

        1. Oh, yeah? So counterfeiting a $20 bill is a violent threat, now, huh? Wow. Learn something everyday!

    3. That depends on how much of a junkie he was. If he was a heavy user, a lethal dose for most people might be a moderate dose for him. Tolerance to opioids can be huge.

      1. And opinions vary and weather changes. You’ll also never know if alcohol is the sure cause of any given DUI accident, as the real cause could have been an unrelated distraction. Nevertheless, the alcohol is still listed as the causal factor when you get over 0.8% whether you could tolerate that level or not. Any given individual’s tolerance must at some point become irrelevant to legal determination.

        1. 0.08, but yeah.

          There was a poster last week or two here who was deep diving into MN law for homicide and assault. Dpm, dph, something like that. Curious to get his opinion of the case on these facts. There was some weird lack of merger doctrine for lesser included offenses, as well as getting to use assault as a predicate felony for felony murder purposes. It was strange, but I guess that’s how Minnesota rolls.

          I don’t see how you get to anything past negligent homicide for Chauvin. And I’m not sure an impartial jury will even get there. Too many potential contributory causes to get past reasonable doubt. So much for manslaughter. It’s hard to have reckless disregard for Floyd’s life when the officer is following the training they received for handling someone they reasonably believed had Floyd’s symptoms.

    4. “The level of fentanyl, 11 nanograms per milliliter, … according to a 2012 review in the Journal of Forensic Research, “individuals injecting fentanyl have reported with postmortem blood concentrations of 4.9 to 27 ng/mL” ”

      Shorter: Floyd’s fentanyl level was over double known lethal doses.

      Has anyone established any physical damage to Floyd’s neck?

      I can put my hand on my neck. Doesn’t mean I’m going to die. AFAIK, no one has ever established that Chauvin was putting significant weight on Floyd’s neck with his knee.

      1. “According to prosecutors, he kept using it despite Floyd’s pleading and complaints that he could not breathe,”

        Protests which Floyd had been making before a knee came within 3 feet of neck. The guy they found in a vehicle with its windows closed was too claustrophobic to breathe simply contemplating getting into a police car.

    5. “near the low end for fentynal doses resulting in death”. Much more than enough for insanity and super human strength.

    6. Then you are fucking stupid. The crook cops WANTED to kill this guys as it makes them feel like the men they are not. Fire all cops, and put the ones that did this in the absolute WORST part of the Maximum Security portion of prison. Then routinely check the size of their anuses so we know these murdering crook cops (is there any other kind?) have received at least SOME punishment for their wicked, ungodly, criminal act.

    7. Look at the cop blaming his fellow cop like the utter pussy he is. Fire all cops, and then put them to work in the Maximum Security wing of any prison. I promise you that they will NEVER abuse a man like they did Mr. Floyd. I also promise you these crooked, brutal cops will never be able to sit down without pain, which is LESS than these pieces of shit deserve.

  2. All of the conservatards will now doubtlessly chime in to blame George Floyd! George Floyd deserved to be killed like a rabid dog, they think… Especially, essentially, for being a black male! But the latter part? They will only think it, and not say it, for the most part…

    1. SQRLSY One
      July.2.2020 at 5:11 pm
      Port-a-potties ARE buffets

      LOL

      1. “Dear Abby” is a personal friend of mine. She gets some VERY strange letters! For my amusement, she forwards some of them to me from time to time. Here is a relevant one:

        Dear Abby, Dear Abby,
        My life is a mess,
        Even Bill Clinton won’t stain my dress,
        I whinny seductively for the horses,
        They tell me my picnic is short a few courses,
        My real name is Mary Stack,
        NO ONE wants my hairy crack!
        On disability, I live all alone,
        Spend desperate nights by the phone,
        I found a man named Richard Decker,
        But he won’t give me his hairy pecker!
        Decker’s pecker is reserved for farm beasts,
        I am beastly, yes! But my crack’s full of yeasts!

        So Dear Abby, that’s just a poetic summary… You can read about the Love of my Life, Richard Decker, here:
        https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/10/11/farmers-kept-refusing-let-him-have-sex-with-their-animals-so-he-sought-revenge-authorities-say/#comments-wrapper
        Farmers kept refusing to let him have sex with their animals. So he sought revenge, authorities say.
        Decker the hairy pecker told me a summary of his story as below:
        Decker: “Can I have sex with your horse?”
        Farmer: “Lemme go ask the horse.”
        Pause…
        Farmer: “My horse says ‘neigh’!”
        And THAT was straight from the horse’s mouth! I’m not horsin’ around, here, no mare!

        So Decker the hairy pecker told me that, apparently never even realizing just HOW DEEPLY it hurt me, that he was all interested in farm beasts, while totally ignoring MEEE!!

        So I thought maybe I could at least liven up my lonely-heart social life, by refining my common interests that I share with Richard Decker… I, too, like to have sex with horses!

        But Dear Abby, the horses ALL keep on saying “neigh” to my whinnying sexual advances!
        Some tell me that my whinnying is too whiny… Abby, I don’t know how to fix it!

        Dear Abby, please don’t tell me “get therapy”… I can’t afford it on my disability check!

        Now, along with my crack full of yeasts… I am developing anorexia! Some are calling me a “quarter pounder with cheese”, but they are NOT interested at ALL, in eating me!!! They will NOT snack on my crack!

        What will I DO, Dear Abby?!?!?

        -Desperately Seeking Horses, Men, or ANYTHING, in Fort Worth,
        Yours Truly,
        Mary Stack / Tulpa / Mary’s Period / “.” / Satan

    2. Spaz will drag a strawman in and beat on it.

      1. He’s trying to beat the shit out of this strawman, so he can have a snack.

    3. Checkout Shomrim videos on Youtube. Black men punch Charedi men in the head to knock their kippahs off. They view it as a playful sport while DeBlasio harasses Orthodox Jews for attending the funeral of a well respected rabbi. Black lives won’t matter until Jewish Lives Matter and the black community confronts its deeply held anti-Semitism!

    4. SQRLSY One is projecting his own racist thinking onto others again.

    5. Why do racists always think black people aren’t responsible for their own actions?

      1. Why do racists always suck cop-dicks and assume the cops are always right and the black men (especially ones with dreadlocks) are always in the wrong?

        If a black man (with dreadlocks especially) is caught blowing on a lung flute w/o a prescription, JesseSPAZ and other Trump-clit-suckers will excuse the cops for killing said black law-breaker dead on the spot!

        Stay ye SAFE from the flute police!!!

        To find precise details on what NOT to do, to avoid the flute police, please see http://www.churchofsqrls.com/DONT_DO_THIS/ … This has been a pubic service, courtesy of the Church of SQRLS!

    6. Listen up, your moron (SQELAYOne. I am a conservative and I think these crooked, brutal cops who ENJOYED killing this poor man should be in Maximum Security after we allow some inmates serving life to ENLARGE their rectums at will. Oh, and don’t be stupid, as I am a conservative and no conservative I know thinks other than I do. Also, how did you get so fucking stupid??????

  3. Oh, fuck off. You wanna talk about de-escalation, how about getting off the dude’s neck when he goes limp and completely stops moving?

    “You think we should roll him over?”

    “Nah, I’m keeping him like this.” When he’s obviously not breathing.

    Sorry, nothing excuses your own behavior there, Derek.

    1. Yeh, it just seems like basic common sense went for a coffee throughout that confrontation.

      1. It was more than that, Rufus. Officer Chauvin displayed complete indifference to Floyd’s life. That cannot be allowed for any reason. That is waaaaaay past common sense going for a coffee. 🙂 Also, Chauvin has a documented history in the PD that is now coming to light.

        This is why I believe Chauvin is guilty of murder and he should get the needle.

        1. XY, honestly, depending on where Chauvin worked, averaging a complaint of excessive force every year or every other year, may not be that bad. Obviously it depends on the specific facts for each complaint, but it could easily be a byproduct of a cop actually getting out of his car and getting involved.

          Go look up thread at the Court’s exhibit I linked to. They were trained to put cuffed suspects in that position if the cops thought the guy might be having an excited delirium episode. Granted, maybe checking his vitals a little more often would have been prudent, but the failure to do that is negligence at most. It isn’t murder or manslaughter.

          Floyd died because he was an eggshell plaintiff: fat, Covid-suffering, and overdosing on a variety of drugs, primarily fentanyl. And he didn’t tell the cops he was on any of it. (Was it proven that Floyd accidentally ingested most of the fentanyl during this arrest?)

          1. Gray….The video does not lie. Chauvin murdered that man. No two ways about it. Chauvin displayed absolute indifference to Floyd’s life.
            Floyd was a drug addict, and a felon. He was a bad man. But Chauvin committed murder. For this, he must get the needle.

    2. um, that is what happened, actually. He wasnt suffocated for 8 minutes, there was no trauma to his windpipe at all

      1. You understand that when someone kneels on the back of your neck, you can suffocate without there being trauma to the body right? The same is true with certain neck-holds that cut off blood to the brain. There won’t be trauma to the wind pipe, but you will still have been choked to death.

        1. And the experts who authored the police procedures didn’t know that?

        2. you can also suffocate from drowning in your own lungs from a fentanyl OD. Like when the autopsy shows your lungs 3x their normal weight.

          1. POS. But what do we expect from you. Funny how bootlickers like you infest this site which is supposedly for libertarians.

            1. “…Funny how bootlickers like you infest this site which is supposedly for libertarians.”

              Your projection noted.
              No, no, stay on your knees; it’s what your trained to do.

              1. I just looked up “projection” in the dictionary. It said “when deranged Trump supporters accuse anyone that criticizes Trump of having Trump Derangement Syndrome.”

                1. Is that like when a dumbass goes into a thread claiming everyone else is tribal but not himself as he continually defends his tribe?

                  You call everyone you disagree with a trump cultist dummy.

                2. You’re a one trick pony, and left wing tribalism is that trick. And no, I don’t consider your shitty sense of humor as a trick.

                3. “I just looked up “projection” in the dictionary.”

                  To lefty shits like you, I’m sure that passes for clever reparte’. To the rest of us, it’s more of your random idiocy.

            2. Why oh why are some of you so fucking ignorant. I know the media and narrative must be protected. The medical report was finally released on Aug 26th retard.

              https://spectator.org/minnesota-v-derek-chauvin-et-al-the-prosecutions-dirty-little-secret/

              Likewise floyd had a previous arrest where he ingested his stash and had to be taken to a hospital.

              God some of you are so wilfully ignorant.

              1. So the cause of death is not what the ME says it is because some guy on a conservatard website has a conspiracy theory.

                1. the link has his initial report dumbfuck.

                  1. I guess all cops are good and Trump is gonna make you his saturday night girl now.

                    1. Way to deflect when you have nothing. Typical Tony.

            3. How he dare he bring up facts and truth. POS indeed

        3. “You understand that when someone kneels on the back of your neck, you can suffocate without there being trauma to the body right?”

          I’m not sure that’s true, but even if it is, it’s irrelevant, as Chauvin was kneeling on the SIDE of Floyd’s neck.

    3. Actually, the knuckle-dragging cop does have a point. I can understand someone having enough and losing their shit, wanting to take it out on the closest available junkie. But, apparently none of his colleagues said “Hey dude, it’s over. Get off him”.

      Why? Did protocol not allow someone to challenge a senior officer? Is this just SOP for the department? Did they want to watch the show? A show of force for the bystanders? Were they just too chicken-shit to mildly challenge an out-of-control person with a gun?

      These are the real, fundamental questions.

      1. “Did protocol not allow someone to challenge a senior officer?”

        That reminds me of Crew Resource Management or Cockpit Resource Management (CRM).

        Some aircraft accidents have resulted from the senior pilot making a mistake, and the junior pilot realizing this but not speaking up. They are now encouraged, even required, to do so.

        1. (Laughs in Asiana…)

  4. https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2020/09/02/new-evidence-in-the-george-floyd-case-that-could-change-everything-n2575428

    Attorneys for former Minneapolis Police Officer Derek Chauvin are requesting the dismissal of murder and manslaughter charges against him for the death of George Floyd. They’re using the police training manual as justification.

    According to the Minneapolis Police Department training manual, officers are shown how to subdue violent or resisting suspects by placing their knee on the neck.

    1. Nice try, won’t fly. The victim was already subdued. He could have stopped kneeling after a minute or two, as long as most people can hold their breath.

      1. “He could have stopped kneeling after a minute or two, as long as most people can hold their breath.”

        But how much pressure was he putting on Floyd’s neck? Just lightly resting his knee to remind him not to try to get up? So not enough to cause harm?

    2. So is Tou Thao, an officer who stood by as his three colleagues restrained a handcuffed Floyd face down on the pavement, dismissing the concerns of onlookers who repeatedly warned that Floyd’s life was in danger.

      See, this is why the standard is what a reasonable cop would do rather than what a reasonable person would do. If the training manual says you should do something, you should do it regardless of how fucked up it is. Only a cop would agree with that sort of thinking, the average person has better judgement than that.

      But, what the hell, George Floyd was a terrible person doing terrible things so he deserved to die like a dog.

  5. the “yeah, they should have stopped me” defense.
    I had heard initially one of them at least had tried.

  6. So the devil made him do it. Sorry, that was worn out long ago.

  7. If we can’t tell the difference between someone suffocating from a fentanyl overdose with a cop kneeling on him and someone suffocating because a cop is kneeling on him, we may be talking about reasonable doubt.

    Here’s to hoping the prosecutors choose the correct charge. Otherwise, the riots after the acquittal may make the riots we’ve seen so far look a gathering of the Rainbow Family.

    1. well, since there was no suffocation by restricting the airway…..

      1. I hope the point is getting across that there will be riots if there’s an acquittal no matter the facts of the case.

        Mobs of looters and arsonists can be downright unreasonable.

        1. there will be riots if there’s an acquittal no matter the facts of the case

          Given that there was rioting in Minneapolis after a perp offed himself I’d say that’s a pretty safe bet.

      2. Doesn’t have to you idiot. He killed him by restricting blood flow to the brain. *How* he died is quite irrelevant when there was no justification for killing the man.

        1. He killed him by restricting blood flow to the brain.

          That’s not what either autopsy concluded, and you’re just pulling things out of your ass.

          1. He isn’t even good at that either. He’s only good at putting things IN his ass.

        2. I agree that HOW he actually died is irrelevant to you Marxist virtue signalling riotous scumbags

    2. It’s been said before, but maybe that’s the intention. Maybe the intent from the start was to overcharge in hopes of an acquittal and subsequent riot.

      1. Nothing quite so devious. Overcharging is the politically easy thing to do right now anyway. The fact that future riots will lead to more power and resources for the prosecutors is a bonus.

  8. Wouldn’t read too much into this brief. They’re trying to get separate trials so they need to show there’s some conflict of interest among the defendants.

    Strategy unlikely to be used at trial for reasons above.

    1. Get iut of hrte with your facts and logic and analysis and better reporting than anyone at Reason except Nancy Rommelman has done in several years….

  9. Pointing fingers at each other in court? At least these cops won’t be perjuring themselves.

  10. I do have a little sympathy for Chauvin here. The unspoken implication here is that the rules have changed. It used to be the case that you could choke the life out of a thug, all while staring at the cameras recording you like a ghoul, just daring the people to complain louder. Nobody told Chauvin that the rules were changing, and so unfortunately for him, he has the un-enviable role as being the first person caught standing when the music stopped playing.

    It’s perhaps unfair that finally someone is being held to a standard of basic human decency, and that person wasn’t first given a warning. But it is a sacrifice I’m willing to make.

    1. You still have to be a pretty big dirt bag to kneel on someone’s neck for 9 minutes.

      1. He was just following orders. Have you read about Abraham and the binding of Isaac?

        1. God is both evil and fickle, and you must obey him or burn in hellfire for eternity. Except he isn’t clear on what he wants.

          One explanation for religion is that it exists to comfort people as they contemplate mortality.

          1. You have a problem with obedience to God, yet insist on obedience to an all powerful Marxist progressive state.

            1. Trumptards finding the capability to obey facts would be enough to tide me over for a long time.

          2. Tony my belief does not include hellfire. I have no idea what that is. Nor does it include comfort in mortality which happens to us all.

            It is about life, not death.

            You have a very narrow view of religion. Free to choose for yourself.

        2. Yes Rabbi and which parsha is that. When is it read? Every yeshiva boy knows that one.

          I think we will miss that this year. The shofar is a reminder of that. We always had a tashlich by the lake. Now has come this virus disease. I do not understand all of it, nor the Akaida.
          Perhaps I will go out on that day and feed the fish.

    2. Overt.. when will YOU blame George at least a little for his OD?

      1. George Floyd was a bad man. He was a felon, and a drug addict. A thief. He was all of those things. And I blame him 100% for his acts.

        Officer Chauvin murdered him. He should get the needle.

  11. “He pointed the gun at him!
    “Yeh, but you kneeled on his neck!’
    “Yeh!”
    “Shut up You tried to ram him into the back seat while he spazzed!’
    ‘Sez you!’
    “You all can suck my dick!’

    Brawl ensues.

    1. Three Stooges sketch?

      1. Or gay porn.

  12. It’s clear that we need higher standards for hiring police officers. Like only hiring people that have at least attended college. Might have to raise salaries significantly in order to attract college educated people to police work, but it would be worth it.
    The way things are now most police departments around the country will hire any barely literate Highschool dropout white trash. They go straight from the trailer park to waving guns with immunity.

    1. Right because no one with a college education would ever commit heinous acts against their fellow human. Alberto Gonzales, the attorney who authorized a torture program, certainly didn’t go to college. Barack Obama with his secret kill list certainly didn’t go to college. Only upright citizens go to college.

      Fuck off, you elitist scum.

      1. It wouldn’t eliminate the possibility of having terrible cops, just significantly reduce the chances of having terrible cops.

        1. Oh so the CA no-homosexual teaches argument to protect children from pedophiles (California Proposition 6, Anita Bryant). No thanks. College education has nothing to do with policing. Nothing. Provide better training for officers throughout their career sure, just not in our over bloated worthless university system.

    2. You do realize that 3/4 of the cops present were not white, right?

      1. But it was the biggest piece of white trash there that actually murdered George Floyd. And the vast majority of police forces around the country are white trash. And the non-white police officers are still mostly uneducated simpletons who are trained by white trash.

    3. Not enough cops to enforce too many laws. Sounds like the solution is simple math.
      If there aren’t enough good cops to hire you have to work on the other side of the equation.
      if A=B , then A/x = B/x
      Stop passing so many stupid laws and you can hire fewer stupid cops.

    4. This comment is pretty ignorant since one of the officers involved here, Thomas Lane, was a college graduate, in like criminology, or something like that. I don’t know about the others but two of them were Asian, not white. In addition to being ignorant you also managed to be super racist and unnecessarily derogatory to police as a broad category of people for obviously biased reasons. I’m sure you would not apply that same form of logic to the many non-white officers that serve in many communities around the country or to someone you know that serves as a police officer. This is not to discount the actions of many “bad” police but you’re clearly using your bias as a weapon to say whatever you want in a totally stupid manner. Not too long ago a black immigrant police officer in Minnesota killed a white Australian woman by accident. Try working your racist logic on that one.

  13. These officers will not get a fair trial because the governor and prosecutors have already decided their guilt. The jury will be stacked with people who will not acquit them on a reasonable doubt because they won’t care. They like everyone else saw the video. Facts will be meaningless and the jury will be afraid for their lives and homes if they don’t convict. The mob has won. America is now a ghetto nation of tribalists and looters who don’t give a shit about rule of law, facts, reason, or property rights.

    1. Well, the big cities are, anyways. And fuck big cities.

      1. Yeah, I’m sure those.. *checks notes* majority white towns in the countryside are gonna not have their own biases when judging a case like this either huh?

        1. Do you ever say shit that isn’t completely retarded?

      2. Green acres is the place to be
        Farm livin’ is the life for me
        Land spreadin’ out so far and wide
        Keep Manhattan, just give me that countryside.

    2. I’d hope they have a competent defense who will try to balance that out.
      It’s going to be impossible to find jurors who haven’t heard of this case though…

  14. Isn’t this just the typical tactic among police union lawyers of blaming any other party involved including other cops with separate trials to establish shared liability and reasonable doubt? It does not sound the least bit surprising to me.

    The rest of the article is pretty silly considering that it fails to even mention, let alone investigate, the training manual justification, which seems pretty easy to refute if it is not true. There is also no mention of previous speculation that the conclusions of the second autopsy are completely suspect considering the trachea and the heart had already been removed from the body to be examined during the first.

    Unfortunately, it is a no-win scenario to question the narrative that Chauvin flat out murdered Floyd in front of multiple witnesses with cameras. To the prejudiced, the only reasons to do so are racism and fascism.

  15. The rats are turning cannibal to eat their own.

    This is your “Blue Brotherhood.” Every cop out there that knows of police crimes and misconduct, essentially every cop, better race to the nearest oversight organization or press outlet to try to get in the first bite before he is eaten alive by his “brother officers.”

  16. Nobody here would have heard of George Floyd or cared about him if they did had his death not been useful as a reason to bitch about cops.

  17. It’s not often you get to see the Prisoner’s Dilemma played out so clearly in the real world.

  18. When 4 criminals are robbing someone and one of them kills the victim, they’re all guilty of murder.

    The same should apply to the cops who all stood by, did nothing to protect Floyd, while he died.

    As soon as he was cuffed, Floyd was no threat to anyone. At that point any force was excessive and all the cops let that happen. They don’t merely suggest that criminals stop.

    I’m sure Chauvin thinks the Union should protect him. They should try, but If at the end of the day justice is once again not served, it will set the wrong example for behaviour during protests.

    1. The cops were not committing a predicate felony in your idiotic example, you Nazi trash

      1. That’s for the court to decide, as in every criminal case, dipshit.

      2. He was being abused with excessive force, then he was murdered.

  19. The defense case stinks of desperation. Don’t let that stop plenty of “libertarians” trying to blame the victim over the pigs.

    What’s one life compared to the vital majesty of “law and order” anyway?

    1. Libertarians believe in self agency. George willingly took his own drugs. Sorry that you don’t feel responsibility for all of your failures.

      1. How fortunate that he had public servants all around him as he was experiencing this medical crisis.

        1. How fortunate that he had public servants all around him as he was experiencing this self-inflicted medical crisis that they knew nothing about.

          FIFY

          1. I wonder what could have kept him from speaking up.

            1. Claiming he couldn’t breathe when literally nobody was touching him in the car isn’t a great move to prove that your complaints are legit.

  20. Wait, if *they* were inexperienced does that make him the senior cop on scene? If so why was he kneeling on dude’s neck instead of one of the other cops so Chauvin could control the scene?

  21. Also, all those points his defense is making are true. In fact, if Floyd hadn’t OD’d he’d still be alive.

    Doesn’t change the fact that Chauvin’s deliberate actions hastened an inevitable death.

    1. if Floyd hadn’t OD’d he’d still be alive

      That seems fairly likely. But that doesn’t mean that if he hadn’t been kneeled on he would be dead anyway.

      1. That wasn’t my point.

        Many things contributed to Floyd’s death that day. Even – for the sake of argument – if we assume that he was only a short time away from death due to an overdose, that doesn’t remove Chauvin’s culpability for his actions even if those actions only hastened Floyd’s death rather than being the sole cause.

        Same with pointing out the culpability of other people in this death. Yes, if the other cops had been more experienced this could have been avoided. Yes, if the paramedic had arrived earlier this could have been avoided.

        But still Chauvin *took active measures* that contributed to Floyd’s death and can’t get out of that responsibility by pointing fingers and going ‘but what about them!?’

        1. He’s being accused of murder.

          There is no way this is murder. In any way.

        2. “But still Chauvin *took active measures* that contributed to Floyd’s death and can’t get out of that responsibility by pointing fingers and going ‘but what about them!?’”

          But were those “active measures” justifiable? Could he reasonably have foreseen that they would contribute to death (especially imminent death)?

          1. The prosecutor doesn’t think they were justifiable.

            1. It’s possible that he genuinely thinks that, but it’s also possible that this is just a tactic to mollify the rioters and so limit or reduce the amount of harm and damage they are doing.

              Even if he genuinely thinks that, it doesn’t mean he’s right, and it doesn’t mean a jury would agree with him. Charges can be withdrawn, and this case hasn’t even gone to trial yet. And that’s without talking about wrongful convictions.

    2. The coroner called it homicide, not suicide.

      With that expert testimony, it’s ALL about the actions of the police.

      1. The coroner called it homicide, not suicide.

        With that expert testimony, it’s ALL about the actions of the police.

        No, that’s not at all what that means. Read the autopsy reports again…assuming you bothered to even once.

        1. “ Both (autopsy) reports agree that the manner of death was homicide.“

          That’s what they say dipshit.

  22. Hopefully they can scour the world and find an impartial jury, who might give us some answers on what happened (or at least on what can be proven).

    Looking over their shoulders at the possibility of riots isn’t going to make their deliberations any easier.

  23. Fuck ’em all. 12 years can be a life sentence for the Bacon Crew…and if it’s not, their assholes will probably be widened considerably.

  24. I’d be more sympathetic to Chauvin’s defense if he (and other members of the police) had followed the same logic and principles when deciding to arrest the rest of us. I’m pretty sure, though, that if Chauvin had arrested one of us for a similar incident, he’d be gleefully following “procedure” to do everything he could to get one of us to testify against the other.

    I doubt he even sees the irony of having his own strong-arm tactics used against him.

  25. Everyone needs a defense.
    Everyone deserves a defense.
    Everyone is entitled to a defense.
    If that is a good defense or bad defense is up to the defendant, their lawyer, and is a matter of opinion.
    Blaming others is a common defense, usually not a good defense, and usually a last resort defense, because there is no other real defense for what the defendant did!

  26. Thanks for a well written article on a complicated subject.

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  28. In the meantime, Reason does not have a headline story about the cops shot at point blank range, that bystanders did nothing but taunt them as they tried to get help, and activists cheered and blocked the emergency room entrances where the cops were having emergency surgery to save their lives. I guess it doesn’t fit Reason’s narrative that ACAB. What a worthless group of people you guys are.

  29. this is great post i told about this post..READ MORE

  30. How could the coroner declare that this was a homicide? After having determined that the cause of death was a heart attack – a heart attack which complicated the police response.

    That’s like blaming an emergency room doctor for a patient’s death because he didn’t immediately apply the correct treatment: he must first examine the patient to determine the problem, and multiple time-consuming tests might be necessary.

    1. Cardiopulmonary arrest is not a heart attack.

      1. Thank you for the correction. I’ve seen many reports stating he died of a heart attack. I see cardiopulmonary arrest can be caused by a heart attack. And he did have heart disease. Is it your belief that he didn’t have a heart attack, that that can definitely be ruled out?

      2. I’ve read your previous responses and have some questions.

        How much pressure was there on the side of Floyd’s neck? We know there wasn’t enough to cause an injury. But how much pressure would be required to block blood flow?

        How much pressure was there on his back? How much pressure would be required to prevent him breathing? This aspect has received very little attention – far less than Chauvin’s knee – but I’d have thought it was much more likely to have hampered breathing. So thank you for mentioning it.

        It’s true that he was breathing before he was put on the pavement, but he already said he couldn’t breathe – that can’t be ignored. And he had asked to be laid on the ground. And he already had foam around his mouth – which he himself attributed to drugs (hooping).

        I think the very fact that he had just committed a crime, and was justifiably being arrested for it, was sufficient reason for him to be frightened and anxious.

        And he did have other medical conditions: heart disease. But the diseased portion of his heart was removed in the first autopsy, so the second autopsy didn’t see it.

  31. “Both reports agree that the manner of death was homicide.”

    In the absence of any evidence to support that conclusion. It wouldn’t be the first time an ME issued a bogus COD to appease the mob.

    1. I think your confusion stems from knowing nothing about being a coroner.

    2. Falsifying a coroner report is a crime.

    3. ““Both reports agree that the manner of death was homicide.”
      In the absence of any evidence to support that conclusion. It wouldn’t be the first time an ME issued a bogus COD to appease the mob.”

      I am reminded of the Danielle van Dam case. The Medical Examiner was unable to determine how she died, so he rightly declared the Cause of Death to be Undetermined. But he declared the Manner of Death to be Homicide, because of “The fact that she was removed from her bed in the middle of the night”. That is what he stated in court. That is the Prosecution scenario. And it is the popular, general belief. It’s the scenario that you’ll read in the media. But there’s no actual evidence of it having happened.

      So when he made that statement, the Defense objected and the Judge sustained the objection.

      The Medical Examiner then gave an acceptable explanation for his “homicide” decision. It was because her body was found some distance from her house, and people had been looking for her for three weeks. So not medical reasons. Her body was 25 miles by road from her home, but she was an active child and loved hiking in the canyons, so it would not have been impossible for her to have walked there.

      This shows that Medical Examiners/Coroners can be influenced by public opinion and by non-medical facts. In Floyd’s case, it was very easy to be so influenced, partly because of repetition – the media had been flooded with apparent evidence of police culpability, and the public’s angry response – and partly because even the mere stress of them arresting him could have harmed him, given the fragile state of his health (heart disease and recent Covid-19) and his dangerous drug use.

      1. There’s also video of Chauvin kneeling on Floyds neck until he died.

        1. That video showing kneeling is exactly what I was referring to. It had a powerful emotional impact, out of proportion to its actual evidentiary value. By the way, he was only pronounced dead an hour later.

  32. derek chauvin…victim? WHAT A GIANT DOUCHEBAG

    derek, you are an asshole

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  34. The issue is this has been used to promote “systematic racism” narrative by the left. I just read a “Business Insider” article on 26 charts that prove racism and it was all underrepresented “results” but not one where the govt is discriminating or passing laws forcing others to discriminate. beyond that its a called living in a free society. If we accept the lefts view on this…well I have some “group” that need to be reduced at Ivy League, the media, non profits and of course academia not to say the NFL. Why Reason writers don’t point this out? Well maybe we need some diversity at Reason…time to hire some Catholics maybe?

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  36. Pretty much every commenter here has some axe to grind. This case falls into two separate and distinguishable categories. One category is the duty of care for one self. This is the category where you use your brain and choose not to take a bunch of opioids hoping for the best. In this category George Floyd failed and in that sense it might have been somewhat predictable that he had a negative outcome with the police. This alone doesn’t justify what happened to him because the police shouldn’t have escalated the situation in the first place over such a trivial offense. So the second category is obviously the police duty of care to safeguard the public which one would consider the “higher” order, which is that the police are allowed to use some discretion in their behavior to avoid some negative public outcome like a drunk driver killing people or a criminal killing people, etc. Given that Floyd wasn’t a clear hazard to anyone for the supposed charge of using counterfeit money they probably should’ve written up a charge and let him go except he was planning to drive in an intoxicated state. It doesn’t matter whether or not the police knew this. It is illegal to drive under the influence of drugs and that alone gives the police the right to detain him. Also, his companion had multiple existing warrants so it would not be unreasonable for the police to forcibly detain him (and the other dude) to safeguard the public. Given that he became agitated during the process of being detained it seems reasonable as well that he might suffer from some cardiopulmonary complications from his drug use. It’s like if you start dancing around at the top of Mt. Everest you will also risk pulmonary edema and a heart attack and it isn’t unreasonable to think that the medical examiner came to the conclusion here that he had a high probability of death regardless of how the police interaction went. Given that most of these officers were freshly trained and not especially skilled it seems reasonable here that Chauvin would not have even been involved in this incident if it were not for the other officers being incompetent. This is a lot like the shooting of Justine Damond, which was 2 years earlier, except here you had a white person getting shot by a Somali officer who made a stupid, but non-malicious mistake, but if Justine Damond had not called the police to begin with, she would still be alive. From what I can tell Chauvin seemed malicious but with no intention to kill, and unlike with Justine Damond the officers here have duty of care (to the public) to arrest Floyd and their training seems to have specified this technique for someone experiencing this type of delirium. Maybe they’ll stop using this technique now but I doubt much will change because 1) the idea that racism fuels police killings is completely wrong and 2) the consequence to this will likely be less policing given the move by the city council to “defund the police” (see Omar Wasow and Roland Fryer Jr.) which will in turn lead to hundreds if not thousands more black deaths. In any case, if the cops (half of them black) that allowed Freddie Gray to die were able to walk free, I don’t see how a jury would convict here of Third Degree murder since the intention of his actions was purely to detain the subject in an orderly manner. I don’t know enough to speculate on second degree manslaughter but even that seems like a stretch since he was more or less just “doing his job” even if he did it with callousness. I think it will be relevant that Floyd was a big guy, had a serious criminal record, and wasn’t acting “stable”. So 50/50 odds in my book for Chauvin on manslaughter and the rest walk free or get a mistrial …

    1. I read a bit more on Third Degree murder and realized I didn’t know what I was talking about. The charge seems reasonable given that Chauvin had significant opportunities to stop what he was doing so the question falls on whether Chauvin had a “depraved mind” in kneeling on his neck and the jury might interpret that more subjectively.

      1. Now that I’ve thought about it some more, it’s really the fault of the stupid restaurant owner here. They shouldn’t have called the police over a fake $20 bill. If they couldn’t tell it was fake when they accepted it that was on them. The police are generally useless so if we’re looking for culpability this all goes back to these morons that called the police over a fake $20 that they accepted as real. Floyd’s life ultimately came down to them choosing between a trivial financial loss and asking law enforcement to intervene.

  37. So Chauvin killed a guy, and now he’s trying to throw his former colleagues under the bus.

    Great dude.

    Unfortunately, all too typical.

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