Trump Changes Course on Reopening the Economy After Georgia Governor Tries To Follow His Lead

Plus: protecting privacy while contact tracing, first YouTube video turns 15, and more...

Elizabeth Nolan Brown | 4.23.2020 9:38 AM

(Polaris/Newscom)

Last week, President Donald Trump was calling for Americans living under shelter-in-place orders to "liberate" their states. Now he's condemning governors for daring to take his advice. On Wednesday, Trump said it's "too soon" for reopening plans like the one Georgia plans to implement on Friday.

The about-face provides even more evidence that Trump's big "liberation" energy was nothing more than a cynical political calculation.

It goes something like this: Push loudly for "reopening the economy"—knowing full well that local leaders, state authorities, and many individuals will resist. When collective reluctance to rush back to normalcy keeps the COVID-19 death toll lower than it otherwise might be, point to the low death toll as evidence that people were overreacting about the virus all along. As we draw closer to the election, Trump can then claim that the country's economic pain could have been avoided if only everyone had listened to his advice by going out to eat and swarming the beaches months earlier.

But Trump only gets to have his cake and eat it if the U.S. avoids a massive spike in new COVID-19 cases and many more deaths. And that's less likely to happen if local leaders and business owners aren't extremely careful about how and when they decide to open things back up.

Doing it too soon or too haphazardly will not only mean more COVID-19 infections but longer and worse economic hardship, unemployment, and unrest (and no boost for Trump come November). A president can sometimes survive mass unemployment or mass deaths, but probably not both.

It's no wonder Trump is now acting like he never meant for people like Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp to allow movie theaters, gyms, bowling alleys, and a broad swath of other businesses to open back up on Friday.

Due to favorable data & more testing, gyms, fitness centers, bowling alleys, body art studios, barbers, cosmetologists, hair designers, nail care artists, estheticians, their respective schools & massage therapists can reopen Friday, April 24 with Minimum Basic Operations. #gapol

— Governor Brian P. Kemp (@GovKemp) April 20, 2020

"Maybe you wait a little bit longer until you get to a phase two," Trump said during his nightly televised Q&A session on Wednesday. "I'm going to let him make his decision, but I told him, I totally disagree."

Trump added that "it's just too soon" for the likes of "spas and the beauty parlors and the barber shops"—the very types of small business owners out protesting shutdown orders— to open up.

Anthony Fauci put it more strongly:

I plead with the American public, with the governors, with the mayors for the people of your responsibility, although I know one has the need to leap frog over things, don't do that. Do it in a measured way. This is a successful formula. The problem is if we don't do that, there is a likelihood that we will have a rebound.

"According to some models," Georgia is "one of the last states that should be reopening," suggest Washington Post health reporters. "The state has had more than 830 covid-19 deaths" and "tested less than 1 percent of its residents," with "the limited amount of testing so far shows a high rate of positives at 23 percent."

And you already know how the next step goes.

If everything works out in Georgia, it will be because Trump said re-opening the economy was the right thing to do.

And if Georgia turns into the next NYC, it will be all Brian Kemp's fault and Trump warned him not to do it.

— Eric Boehm (@EricBoehm87) April 22, 2020

FREE MINDS

Good piece from @Ashkhen on how we can use technology to do contact tracing while still protecting privacy.

Five factors:

1. Transparency
2. No law enforcement access
3. Sunset provision
4. Clear guidelines for collection
5. Limits on data retention pic.twitter.com/pmcA6XSJWH

— Alec Stapp (@AlecStapp) April 23, 2020

FREE MARKETS

The first ever YouTube video was uploaded 15 years ago today https://t.co/O39Qcw5fjr

And here it is: https://t.co/J3Yv34km1A

— Matt Navarra (I quit X. Follow me on Threads) (@MattNavarra) April 23, 2020

QUICK HITS

• "I didn't say that this was going to be worse. I said it was going to be more difficult," CDC Director Robert Redfield said yesterday, asked to clarify his earlier comment to The Washington Post that "there's a possibility that the assault of the virus on our nation next winter will actually be even more difficult than the one we just went through." Trump had tried to claim earlier in the day that Redfield had been "totally misquoted by Fake News."

• There's more evidence that COVID-19 was infecting Americans earlier and in greater numbers than initially realized. "By the time New York City confirmed its first case of the coronavirus on March 1, thousands of infections were already silently spreading through the city, a hidden explosion of a disease that many still viewed as a remote threat as the city awaited the first signs of spring," reports The New York Times.

• Jobless claims again exceed predictions:

Weekly jobless claims come in at 4.4 million, against expectations of 4.2 million.

Over the last six weeks, there have now been over 26 million that have filed for unemployment benefits. Still hard to imagine.

— The Darkest Timeline Numbersmuncher (@NumbersMuncher) April 23, 2020

• An Illinois judge cleared the way for the Libertarian Party to get on the state's ballot even though COVID-19 has prevented traditional methods of gathering signatures to petition for obtain ballot access. Brian Doherty explains how.

• Why isn't Canada seeing the same supermarket shortages as the U.S.?

• Two domestic cats in New York have tested positive for COVID-19.

• The return of drive-ins?

• You're Wrong About podcast looks at the 1980s Satanic Panic:

https://twitter.com/RottenInDenmark/status/1253275701605793793

• Yesssssss:

https://twitter.com/Chris_arnade/status/1253307133858394113

Start your day with Reason. Get a daily brief of the most important stories and trends every weekday morning when you subscribe to Reason Roundup.

NEXT: GOP Debt Hypocrisy

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Fist of Etiquette 5 years ago

The first ever YouTube video was uploaded 15 years ago today

Spoiler alert: It was an elephant. MAGA
1. Longtobefree 5 years ago
  
  And the world has gone downhill ever since. Coincidence?
  1. Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland 5 years ago
    
    Which part of American improvement bugs you most? It is the educated women, the uppity blacks, the rejection of fairy tales in science classrooms, or . . . . my guess . . . gays being treated like human beings as slack-jaws seethe about all of this damned progress?
    1. Tom Bombadil 5 years ago
      
      Finally an admission of how much America has improved in 15 years.
    2. Earth Skeptic 5 years ago
      
      And yet people were still free to work, play, spend, and gather as they saw fit--until now. Nice work, panic whore.
      1. Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland 5 years ago
        
        Pointers from anti-government cranks who despise stop signs, lane markers, and traffic lights are especially handy during a pandemic.
        
        Society will continue to progress against your wishes and efforts, until you are replaced. Enjoy the ride, clinger.
        
        Fats of Fury 5 years ago
        
        Trying out new material? Save it for when Drag Queen Story Time returns PVT Clinger.
        
        Sometimes a Great Notion 5 years ago
        
        Fuck off Slave to the Traffic Light.
    3. Commenter_XY 5 years ago
      
      The Human Hemorrhoid dropped a load. Wonderful.
      1. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP) 5 years ago
        
        The Kirkland jar admitted yesterday that it hates home-schooling because it like to watch your kids. Ulterior motives people, ulterior motives.
  2. ykaryn 5 years ago
    
    Facebook is paying $530 Per day. Be a part of Facebook and start getting Extra Dollars every week from your home. xzs..I just got paid $8590 in my previous month……….,Visit Site
2. Rufus The Monocled 5 years ago
  
  Hello.
  
  "I didn't say that this was going to be worse. I said it was going to be more difficult,"
  
  What fascinates me about comments like this is they admit they're 'still learning' about the virus but at the same time speak with certainty about what's going to happen.
  
  All this does is confuse people and when people get confused they get worried and when information is mixed they begin to panic. And it's always of the 'worst possibility' variety. It's never laced with any positivity. Negative, negative, negative.
  
  Shut up if you don't know. Admitting you don't know is actually a VIRTUE.
  
  But medial experts are proving they're vulnerable to vices just like the rest of us. In this case, hubris.
  1. Rich 5 years ago
    
    Well said.
  2. MikeT1986 5 years ago
    
    Best guess at how to make this defensible: Different amounts of ignorance about the specifics of the virus vs typical transmission?
  3. Overt 5 years ago
    
    "Shut up if you don’t know. Admitting you don’t know is actually a VIRTUE."
    
    This is a general cultural issue. If you tell people that you don't know, then they will find someone willing to tell them they know. In general this has been the process around the country. A politician urges inaction, and he is pilloried by his opponents who find experts who demand action. If a leader says "We are still figuring this out", there are a million opponents who will say "You idiot, we figured this out days ago!"
3. Doug 5 years ago
  
  another bullshit anti trump hit piece for the morons.
Longtobefree 5 years ago

This might be the time for the governors to start talking out loud about a constitutional convention.
Not that it would ever happen, but it is close enough to the next election to make for some interesting political ads going into November.
1. JFree 5 years ago
  
  It won't happen because neither of the DeRp's has the remotest courage to make it happen. It is all bullshit intended to stir up the obeisant idiots in their base. As you yourself admit when you say the purpose should be for 'interesting political ads going into November'.
  
  Fuck you and your duopoly.
2. Mickey Rat 5 years ago
  
  And a constitutional convention will not turn into an authoritarian love fest.. how?
Fist of Etiquette 5 years ago

The about-face provides even more evidence that Trump's big "liberation" energy was nothing more than a cynical political calculation.

I'd hate to see either side on this start to politicize COVID-19.
1. Earth Skeptic 5 years ago
  
  Yeah, its almost like there was a political campaign or something going on.
Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland 5 years ago

Watching Trump flip-flop -- and his slack-jawed followers revel as he criticizes educated "elites" such as the scientists still willing to participate in the Trump administration -- is becoming entertaining, much like a slasher film. Sure, some Georgia residents will die as Trump blunders about and disclaims responsibility as the killer rampages, but mostly the victims will be extras who made stupid mistakes.
1. Tom Bombadil 5 years ago
  
  Finally someone in support of opening up Georgia.
2. OpenBordersLiberal-tarian 5 years ago
  
  Usually I agree with you, Art, but not this time.
  
  I'm sure you're aware that the #TrumpVirus disproportionately kills black and brown bodies, correct? It's bad form to celebrate the deaths of people of color — even if they happen to live in the state that cheated Stacey Abrams out of the governorship.
Echo Chamber 5 years ago

Once again, the media distorts to fit their narrative of OMB.
He didn't tweet Liberate Georgia, but was tweeting about liberating states that went particularly crazy in their lockdowns.
1. Axeblood 5 years ago
  
  Nope, supposedly Trump and Pence called Kemp to express "support and praise for the Republican's move to reopen businessesin his state starting Friday".
2. Commenter_XY 5 years ago
  
  It is hard to decide which is the bigger Journowhore: Brown, or Dalmia.
  1. mad.casual 5 years ago
    
    Journowhore? Brown. She's earning a paycheck.
    
    Dalmia would write crazy even if it didn't pay. She's more of a journoslut.
3. SilentSkies 5 years ago
  
  Yeah apparently there is no middle ground between running around coughing all over everyone and welding people in their homes.
Axeblood 5 years ago

Now, he's condemning governors for daring to take his advice.

We've always been at war with Eurasia or was it Oceania. I love Dear Leader
1. Earth Skeptic 5 years ago
  
  2 + 2 = ?
  1. Sevo 5 years ago
    
    That's it! Pod is done for the day.
    1. Axeblood 5 years ago
      
      2+2 = whatever Trump says
    2. Axeblood 5 years ago
      
      Lol, I like sarcastic Sevo.
      1. Sevo 5 years ago
        
        Fuck off and die.
  2. Unicorn Abattoir 5 years ago
    
    An outstanding and long forgotten song. Also, Lucifer.
  3. mad.casual 5 years ago
    
    2 + 2 = ?
    
    $300 when we asked your Mom.
2. Under_Pressure 5 years ago
  
  The daily ENB Roundup is like our Two Minutes Hate with the Orange Man in place of Goldstein.
  1. Axeblood 5 years ago
    
    Trump can resign anytime. In the meantime he's fair game everyday because he's the president.
    1. Under_Pressure 5 years ago
      
      No one is saying he's not. But that doesn't mean it's not dumb to keep leading with some twisted interpretation of something he said or did, every. single. day. ENB and Reason can do that if they want, and the rest of us can think they look foolish for doing it.
    2. R Mac 5 years ago
      
      Nobody is fair game to have their words completely distorted on a regular basis.
3. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP) 5 years ago
  
  They were Oceania, you fucking idiot, the choice was between Eurasia and Eastasia. Jesus, you could at least get your inappropriate comparisons correct. But, then again, I wouldn't expect someone who slurps up the diarrhea offered by Progressives to actually have read a book.
Trump's al Gore, learn to code Karen 5 years ago

Anyone else wondering how much money the government of China is giving to the Credentialed Experts who made the mathematical models that shut down the economy?

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00291-2

Researchers have reacted with shock to the arrest of Charles Lieber, a prominent Harvard University chemist and nanotechnology pioneer, who has been charged with making false statements to the US government about receiving research funding from China.

Lieber, who is known for engineering new nanomaterials and developing their applications in medicine and biology, was arrested on 28 January. Two days later, a federal judge approved his release on cash bail of US$1 million.

The charges focus on Lieber’s alleged involvement in China’s Thousand Talents Plan, a prestigious programme designed to recruit leading academics to the country. Documents outlining the charges allege that Lieber received hundreds of thousands of dollars from the Wuhan University of Technology (WUT) in China and agreed to lead a lab there — and that when US government agencies asked about his involvement with the programme he stated that he was not a participant and denied any formal affiliation with WUT. Lieber’s legal team did not respond to Nature’s requests for comment.
1. Trump's al Gore, learn to code Karen 5 years ago
  
  https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01270-y
  
  Last August, NIH director Francis Collins wrote a letter to the more than 10,000 US institutions that the agency funds, stating that it was concerned that “some foreign entities” were interfering in the funding, research and peer review of NIH-supported projects.
  
  Then, earlier this month, Collins told the Senate Appropriations Committee that investigations at 55 US universities had found some “egregious” breaches of rules governing the agency’s grants — including grant recipients not disclosing foreign government money, or diverting intellectual property from their US institution to other countries, such as China. He warned that universities would announce actions they have taken against foreign scientists caught breaking rules, and he said that some facility members would probably be sacked as a result.
  
  MD Anderson says it received letters from the NIH concerning five of its scientists, and elected to terminate the employment of three after it and the University of Texas system investigated. Two of the researchers chose to resign, and termination is under way for the third. The University of Texas and MD Anderson are still investigating one researcher, and say that terminating the employment of another is not warranted; MD Anderson says it is reviewing compliance procedures with that researcher and their supervisor.
  
  Four of the researchers were accused of improperly sharing confidential information about grant applications, and one of sending at least one grant application containing proprietary information to a scientist in China, according to redacted versions of the letters, which Nature has seen. In three cases, the letters suggest that MD Anderson failed to disclose that the researchers had active and well-supported research programmes in China.
  1. Trump's al Gore, learn to code Karen 5 years ago
    
    It’s Time for the Press to Play by the Rules Too
    
    https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/media-coverage-coronavirus-china-damages-public-trust/
    
    Yet in the midst of the greatest test of their mettle in a generation, the New York Times devoted a Sunday front-page article to the absurd claim that criticizing China’s role in this catastrophe amounts to “scapegoating” that is motivated by bigoted “xenophobia.” The piece is an example of the axe-grinding ideology pretending to be news that has become commonplace when our country can least afford it.
    
    It’s a stone-cold fact that the Chinese government repeatedly misled the world about the origin and nature of the virus. Their deceit is entirely consistent with how the Chinese Communist Party has mangled the truth about public-health calamities in the past, including prior outbreaks, and as far back as the state-induced famines of Chairman Mao, which killed millions of China’s own citizens.
    
    But according to the Times, Americans are being manipulated into considering those realities, all part of a cynical strategy to “divert attention” from domestic politics. For proof, the Times showed poll results that nearly 80 percent of Americans fault the Chinese government for dishonesty and negligence in handling the crisis.
    
    How did people get that idea? From “attack ads,” the Times says, that “rely heavily on images of people of Asian descent.”
    1. Earth Skeptic 5 years ago
      
      Well, somebody has to suck those tiny Chinese dicks.
      1. Fats of Fury 5 years ago
        
        And an hour later they're hungry again.
    2. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP) 5 years ago
      
      the state-induced famines of Chairman Mao, which killed millions of China’s own citizens.
      
      10's of millions. Some estimates go as high as 60 million. The level to which the Chinese oligarchy does not give a shit about lives cannot possibly be overstated.
      1. Overt 5 years ago
        
        Don't forget sending wave after wave of their own soldiers to their deaths in Korea.
2. Jerryskids 5 years ago
  
  Given the source, I have to suspect the "shock" at his arrest isn't over what he was doing, it's that somebody might think there's anything wrong with what he was doing.
Ken Shultz 5 years ago

If ENB told us it was raining outside, I bet I'm not the only one who looks out the window to see if she's telling the truth.

I don't know what happened with Trump and Georgia, but I know that it's become mighty tedious to go through the motions of looking it up only to find that it wasn't as advertised--again.
1. Geraje Guzba 5 years ago
  
  Your bullshit radar is spot on, Ken.
2. Troglodyte Rex 5 years ago
  
  I was thinking along the same lines.
  
  If Trump says the sky is blue, ENB will contort it into the president saying he hates red skies.
3. Jeb Kerman 5 years ago
  
  ^^...again...
4. Ron 5 years ago
  
  Of the portion I saw Trump said it was to soon but if thats what Georgia wants to do thats okay, not exact quote so who knows but at least he is letting the states do what they want when prior to that all the liberals I meet were saying the president needs to lock down the entire nation and bring in the Army to do something
  1. mamabug 5 years ago
    
    That jives with my impression. Trump was saying he wouldn't jump to the phase Governor Kemp is at this point because the guidelines Brix has been going on about don't support it. In the end, though, he emphasized it was up to the governor. The 'liberate' comment was in the context of governor's who were going far past any recommendations being made.
    
    I'm learning that the only way to get the news anymore is to watch the source data. Just like how the only way to understand a study is to read it and not rely on the journalistic distortions.
5. Juice 5 years ago
  
  It's after Easter, isn't it?
6. R Mac 5 years ago
  
  Yep. He was asked specifically about massage and tattoo parlors opening in Georgia.
7. I, Woodchipper 5 years ago
  
  If Trump did a 180 on open borders, ENB and her ilk would vilify him for it somehow.
Trump's al Gore, learn to code Karen 5 years ago

Celebrity climate activists cheer coronavirus misery in name of environment: Devine

https://nypost.com/2020/04/22/climate-activists-cheer-coronavirus-misery-in-name-of-environment-devine/

“Neither Greenpeace, nor Greta Thunberg, nor any other individual or collective organization have achieved so much in favor of the health of the planet in such a short time,” Spanish scientist Martín López Corredoira crowed on the Science 2.0 blog.
1. Trump's al Gore, learn to code Karen 5 years ago
  
  https://twitter.com/EricHolthaus/status/1252952128131342336
  
  Eric Holthaus
  @EricHolthaus
  This is roughly the same pace that the IPCC says we need to sustain every year until 2030 to be on pace to limit global warming to 1.5C and hit the Paris climate goals.
  
  This is what “rapid, far-reaching and unprecedented changes in all aspects of society” looks like.
  Quote Tweet
  
  CBC News Alerts
  @CBCAlerts
  · Apr 22
  The coronavirus pandemic is expected to drive down carbon dioxide emissions by 6% this year, the World Meteorological Organization says. It would be the biggest annual drop since World War II.
  1. Rufus The Monocled 5 years ago
    
    Here's one example of the unintended consequences of the shutdown.
    
    You've emboldened the Green New Deal.
  2. End Child Unemployment 5 years ago
    
    I suspect this is good news for people who understand economics. It's easy to talk big about how important it is to cut the economy's achilles tendon to save us from climate change when you don't really understand how critical energy is to economic activity, or what severe economic pain really looks like. The fallout from the shutdowns hasn't hit yet. They can't put it off forever. When more and more businesses die, people get fired, and people start losing their homes in droves, all those people are going to remember and hopefully connect the dots. A bunch more of them will be willing to tell climate activists to go fuck themselves than before.
  3. Juice 5 years ago
    
    Shit, I thought he was anti and being sarcastic.
  4. Frank_Garrett 5 years ago
    
    The funny thing is, this has actually made the Paris agreement less appetizing. Japan has said it cannot afford to abide by he Paris agreement if they need to fight the virus. If anything money and financing for green energy money pits will dry up after the pandemic has been dealt with.
2. Earth Skeptic 5 years ago
  
  Lots of Earth Day editorials hoping for permanent draconian controls on people and commerce so we can maintain the glorious reduction in pollution. I am sure the globe is also cooling and sea level is dropping.
  1. Trump's al Gore, learn to code Karen 5 years ago
    
    https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2020/04/22/biden-and-gore-agree-coronavirus-pandemic-presents-huge-job-creating-opportunity-and-then-joe-serves-up-a-wtf-moment-for-the-ages-watch-gores-reaction/
    
    Joe Biden and Al Gore see millions of unemployed Americans as an opportunity for their radical "Green New Deal"
    
    "We can transform the country," Biden says
    
    — Elizabeth Harrington (@LizRNC) April 22, 2020
    1. Earth Skeptic 5 years ago
      
      Somehow this transformation leads to Soylent Green.
      1. Don't look at me! 5 years ago
        
        Those people weren’t essential, so no loss.
3. Rufus The Monocled 5 years ago
  
  It's a death cult.
  1. Trump's al Gore, learn to code Karen 5 years ago
    
    https://disrn.com/news/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-says-americans-should-refuse-to-go-back-to-work-once-economy-reopens
    
    New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Wednesday argued that Americans should refuse to return to work if and when their state economies reopen, claiming that workers should "just say no" if the opportunity arises to resume their jobs.
    
    The politician made the argument during an interview with Anand Giridharadas, host of ViceTV's "Seat at the Table":
    
    "When we have this discussion about 'going back' or 'reopening,' I think a lot of people should just say no. We're not going back to that. We're not going back to 70 hour weeks just so we could put food on the table and not even feel any semblance of security in our lives."
    1. Tom Bombadil 5 years ago
      
      Curious the % of American workers who work 70 hours per week.
      1. MikeT1986 5 years ago
        
        Some of the worst I've seen from it are white collar types with laptops who poke at emails and reports all evening.
        
        Then again I am not exposed to the daily lives of retail workers so that's probably my limited perception.
    2. Fats of Fury 5 years ago
      
      Old Joke
      Q. Why are there no Puerto Ricans on Star Trek?
      A. Because they aint working in the future either.
  2. Trump's al Gore, learn to code Karen 5 years ago
    
    https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/nicholas-fondacaro/2020/04/23/how-did-cbs-celebrate-earth-day-declaring-humans-arent-needed
    
    BLACKSTONE: Earth Day is dedicated to all species. And while humans are locked down, wildlife’s filling the void. In Yosemite, animals aren't hiding from visitors. On Florida’s coasts, Manatees are showing up in unusual numbers.
    
    (…)
    
    BLACKSTONE: From goats in a deserted town in Wales, to lions lounging on a road in South Africa; nature seems to be saying, "We can get along fine without you."
    1. Tom Bombadil 5 years ago
      
      And yet nobody even noticed the "day without women".
      1. Nardz 5 years ago
        
        It'll show up in the traffic accidents stats
    2. Frank_Garrett 5 years ago
      
      I've also observed that CBS news isn't needed.
4. Unicorn Abattoir 5 years ago
  
  Patric Moore, co-founder and former member of Greenpeace, described them as "a band of scientific illiterates who use Gestapo tactics".
  1. Trump's al Gore, learn to code Karen 5 years ago
    
    https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1253294997748752385
    
    CNN’s
    @BillWeirCNN
    says Coronavirus “has helped humanity buy some time against global warming”; claims the virus came from too much deforestation
    1. Unicorn Abattoir 5 years ago
      
      The probably had to cut down some trees to build that viral research lab in Wuhan, so...
Fist of Etiquette 5 years ago

"I'm going to let him make his decision, but I told him, I totally disagree."

THEN WHY DIDN'T YOU OVERRIDE HIS DECISION?
1. Commenter_XY 5 years ago
  
  Federalism.
2. Ron 5 years ago
  
  which is exactly the same as changing his mind. NOT. He said the states could do what they want and he is still letting them ENB's twist of words are full of TDS BS
  1. jcw 5 years ago
    
    ABSOLUTE authority
    1. bs 5 years ago
      
      Pretty bad hitler when he refuses to use it every time. I'm sure you miss a "Pen and a Phone."
Fist of Etiquette 5 years ago

Good piece from @Ashkhen on how we can use technology to do contact tracing while still protecting privacy.

Can but won't.
Geraje Guzba 5 years ago

This is a stupid take. Endorsing resistance to insanely draconian and arbitrarily endorced diktats spewing out from various governors is not the same as ***disagreeing*** (ENB's version of "condemning") with the scope of a particular governor's reopening plan.

For fuck's sake, even CNN provided more honest coverage than this hack job hit piece.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/04/22/health/us-coronavirus-wednesday/index.html
1. jcw 5 years ago
  
  maybe we should test different reopen plans. Oh wait, sorry I need to remember who I'm talking to
  1. bs 5 years ago
    
    Maybe we shouldn't be such hypocrites? Oh wait, sorry I need to remember who I'm talking to.
  2. Geraje Guzba 5 years ago
    
    We should test different means of traveling back in time so that we could beat your mother to death with her ovaries before she ever made the mistake of giving birth to you.
Trump's al Gore, learn to code Karen 5 years ago

https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-york-gov-cuomo-to-protesters-wanting-economy-reopened-get-a-job-as-an-essential-worker

“By the way -- if you want to go to work, go take the job as an essential worker. Do it tomorrow,” Cuomo said.

“But the people aren’t hiring because of the pandemic,” McCloy responded.

“No, there are people hiring,” Cuomo said. “You can get a job as an essential worker, so now you can go to work and you can be an essential worker and you’re not going to kill anyone.”
1. Geraje Guzba 5 years ago
  
  Naturally, the classification of one as "essential," in itself, guarantees protection against infection and stops transmission dead in its tracks.
  
  Cuomo for President.
  1. Troglodyte Rex 5 years ago
    
    Cuomo for President.
    
    He would be perfect....never held a real job in his life. All been in politics, or a liar, I mean ADA (for like, a year or less).
2. Earth Skeptic 5 years ago
  
  Essential coding?
3. Idle Hands 5 years ago
  
  Fuck that guy. What a cock. And these people have the gall to criticize the fucking GA gov? This man is a sociopath.
  1. Geraje Guzba 5 years ago
    
    The wine moms are swooning.
    1. Idle Hands 5 years ago
      
      This period in my life has turned me into a racist sexist monster as I now have a seething hate for white women. Also the gutless cowards who call themselves men who are content to hide under a rock.
      1. Idle Hands 5 years ago
        
        *not all white women, but seemingly the vast amount of privileged ones who have nothing interesting in their life except being a part of this "apocalyptic" moment.
        
        Leo Kovalensky II 5 years ago
        
        It's amazing how many people seem to be proud of their "sacrifice" to work from home. People have badges on Facebook as such. What they are really sacrificing is the jobs of others who can't work from home. It's not a sacrifice to transfer your pain onto others.
        
        They're looking for this to be a generation defining moment or something. I hope that it is, but not in the way they intend. History should look back on this with utter disdain.
        
        Geraje Guzba 5 years ago
        
        Precisely. Our present circumstances are the result of an entire generation raised on blue ribbons, gold stars, and feel good positivity for doing nothing more than showing up and breathing.
        
        We are dealing with the participation award generation. Naturally, everybody is just dying to participate.
        
        Nardz 5 years ago
        
        ^this
        
        A lot of people are going to be very upset if life returns to normal, because they'll have lost their special time
        
        Idle Hands 5 years ago
        
        And they are going to find their special work from home job they thought was secure. But it turns out Karen doesn't actually provide any value and the optics of firing her during the pandemic don't look good. A ton of fat trimming was going to occur because of this even if the sales were okay and not chernobyl bad like they will be when quarterlies come out.
        
        Muzzled Woodchipper 5 years ago
        
        At which point they’ll blame Trump.
        
        Muzzled Woodchipper 5 years ago
        
        They’re either 1) ecstatic that they can stay home and get paid the same to do 15% of the work they do at work, or 2) so very happy to have quality time with their husband who is home from work and still drawing a paycheck.
        
        They sit comfortably in the comfort of their suburban homes and have a 24 hour long 2 minute hate against those who would have the nerve to spoil her comfort.
        
        Karen is a selfish cunt.
        
        Geraje Guzba 5 years ago
        
        Priceless. This shit describes so many people I know and, predictably, they are the biggest cheerleaders for the insanity. At some point, their gardeners and landscapers are going to cut their fucking heads off with dull clippers.
      2. Fats of Fury 5 years ago
        
        If you want to see the shutdowns immediately end ban the sale of makeup.
4. Don't look at me! 5 years ago
  
  “Essential worker” is the same title used by the nazis.
  1. Colossal Douchebag 5 years ago
    
    Small fingers are necessary for polishing the insides of shell casings.
5. JesseAz 5 years ago
  
  Nurses are now taking to facebook to discuss how many of them are being fired since hospitals have no business with these lockdowns in place. Apparently hospitals can't survive when they have only 3 Covid related patients in a wing while the rest of the hospital is empty.
  1. Geraje Guzba 5 years ago
    
    Fuck them.
    
    They were cheerleading for this bullshit, and now they get steamrolled too.
    
    Ah, but you see, NOW it's a problem.
    
    Again, fuck them.
    1. Muzzled Woodchipper 5 years ago
      
      That’s my take too.
      
      So many medical workers got caught up in the “You're a hero!” bullshit, and acted as cheerleaders for more shutdowns. Now that they’re feeling it like the rest, they get mad.
6. Leo Kovalensky II 5 years ago
  
  Learn to clinical code
  1. Freddy the Jerk 5 years ago
    
    Ouch.
7. Frank_Garrett 5 years ago
  
  They can get jobs in Cuomo's MTA. Shuttling empty trains and buses full of bums.
  1. Frank_Garrett 5 years ago
    
    Sorry, near empty trains and buses.
Fist of Etiquette 5 years ago

An Illinois judge cleared the way for the Libertarian Party to get on the state's ballot even though COVID-19 has prevented traditional methods of gathering signatures to petition for obtain ballot access.

Is this what the LP stands for now? Breaking the rules for convenience sake?
1. JesseAz 5 years ago
  
  And complaining about literally everything, see this mornings article. They've given up giving out actual plans that might work in reality. T hey are now in the cult of Amash where all one has to do is say no to everything.
  1. Leo Kovalensky II 5 years ago
    
    Well to be fair, there's isn't much coming out of Washington these days that deserves a "yes" vote.
  2. jcw 5 years ago
    
    Pot kettle black
  3. De Oppresso Liber 5 years ago
    
    Jesse, are you feeling better today?
    1. R Mac 5 years ago
      
      How many lies do you plan on telling today?
    2. De Oppresso Liber 5 years ago
      
      Watch Jesse have a mental breakdown:
      https://reason.com/2020/04/22/heres-why-rep-justin-amash-opposes-the-cares-act/#comment-8223423
      
      He's apparently very emotionally invested in the paycheck protection program being a smashing success. The problem is, it isn't. It might not surprise some of you to know that our resident genius polymath is also an expert in SBA programs, despite not being a business owner or showing any other interest in finance.
      1. De Oppresso Liber 5 years ago
        
        https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamjeakle/2020/04/17/ppp/#1fb1ce8b4478
        
        Just another lefty take from forbes, I guess.
        
        "This week, America’s small businesses got “Karened.” After boasting that they would provide all the funds needed to let small business process payroll for eight weeks in the form of a forgiveable loan, the Paycheck Protection Program ran out of funds—after successfully processing loans for only about 5% of America’s small businesses."
        
        I suggest Jesse reads the whole thing. No, this is not a Vox headline.
        
        And Jesse, I will prove I am business owner and a special forces veteran. I propose we nominate John as our neutral, and if he accepts I will show him my service records, my business license, and even last year's Profit and Loss statement. Name your dollar wager and I will agree. If John isn't interested, we can come up with another 3rd party who we can both trust.
        
        If John tells you I am what I say I am, you will issue a formal apology in which you admit that you are far too confident in your knowledge and suffer from debilitating Dunning Kruger, and pay me the wager.
        
        If John says I'm not a veteran business owner, then I will apologize, pay your wager, and never return to these comments.
        
        If you pass on this wager, then we will all know you are either a troll or a coward.
        
        R Mac 5 years ago
        
        What does this have to do with you lying all the time?
        
        De Oppresso Liber 5 years ago
        
        You can get on this too, R Mac. If you think I'm a liar, how about you put your money where your mouth is?
        
        bs 5 years ago
        
        Just another lefty take from forbes, I guess.
        
        Well, yes, actually. From the byline:
        
        I'm an author, entrepreneur, Stanford grad, former CNN exec, comedy writer,
        
        Wait, so as the one True Libertarian(tm), you are now advocating for more government spending on the PPP?
        
        How does the old joke go? The food is terrible and there's not enough of it?
        
        As for your special forces cred, you're Delta, aren't you? I haven't met a single one of you worth a shit, but oh boy can you spout about your "force multipliers."
        
        De Oppresso Liber 5 years ago
        
        Not Delta, but thanks for showing your total ignorance of sof. You probably think SEALs are cool, too.
        
        Since you obviously have no idea wtf you are talking about, I don't give a damn what you think of SF.
        
        Now get back to clipboard carrying and coffee drinking. Make sure that mustache doesn't extend past your lips. And other important regular forces stuff.
        
        bs 5 years ago
        
        but thanks for showing your total ignorance of sof. You probably think SEALs are cool, too.
        
        I bet all of the voices in your head tell you how great you are. But do you honestly think that was some kind of rebuttal? Are you claiming that Delta is NOT special forces? Do you know what JSOC is? Do you know what's in its force structure?
        
        No, I haven't been overly impressed by SEALs I've met either. But at least they can get their target.
        
        Since you obviously have no idea wtf you are talking about, I don’t give a damn what you think of SF.
        
        Pretty rich for the guy who doesn't even know what's in SOCOM. And as for giving a damn, well that makes two of us.
        
        ow get back to clipboard carrying and coffee drinking. Make sure that mustache doesn’t extend past your lips. And other important regular forces stuff.
        
        I sure struck a nerve there, didn't I, sport? I was never in the military. I never had a need.
        
        R Mac 5 years ago
        
        I catch you lying on a regular basis.
        
        You still haven’t answered my question: how many times are you going to lie today?
        
        De Oppresso Liber 5 years ago
        
        So no bet?
        Coward.
        You can call me a liar all you want, but I gave you a chance to prove it, and you cowered.
        
        R Mac 5 years ago
        
        I prove it regularly. It’s not hard.
        
        R Mac 5 years ago
        
        Lol. Here’s how easy it is, took me about 2 minutes: you just posted sarcastically about Forbes being right wing and linked to this guys article. From a tweet on April 20th: “Even though I’m a card-carrying West Coast liberal now, I grew up in Alabama.”
        
        https://mobile.twitter.com/WillJeakle/status/1252436083763101706
        
        Haha, I literally only had to go up in the current thread to find your dishonesty! You’re a fucking joke.
        
        De Oppresso Liber 5 years ago
        
        Weak as fuck. I'm not trolling anyone's twitter. The author's tweet does not make me a liar. If it does explain the false statement I made. You can't.
        
        And tweets aside, since when was Forbes considered a leftist magazine? Do you have any reason not to trust Forbes reporting on business news? Or are you just looking to confirm your bias. I think we all know what the answer is.
        
        Just put your money where your mouth is. I'm throwing down the gauntlet, and you chicken shit Trump cultists are afraid to pick it up.
        
        R Mac 5 years ago
        
        So providing a link to an article from a left wing author and presenting it as right wing isn’t dishonest? Dude you are seriously a sociopath.
        
        bs 5 years ago
        
        And tweets aside, since when was Forbes considered a leftist magazine? Do you have any reason not to trust Forbes reporting on business news? Or are you just looking to confirm your bias. I think we all know what the answer is.
        
        OMG. You have to be Delta. You really are this stupid. You think that piece is actually endorsed as an article of Forbes. Look at his byline. See the word "Contributor" next to it? See the circled 'i' next to that? Hover over the 'i' and what do you see?
        
        Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own.
        
        So you lied. It's literally right next to his name. With geniuses like you on the battlefield I can understand why Afghanistan is such a disaster.
        
        R Mac 5 years ago
        
        He’s a sociopath.
        
        I, Woodchipper 5 years ago
        
        what the hell does 'getting Karened' even mean?
    3. Morty 5 years ago
      
      De Op, and all those who care about the Reason commentariat and are tired of boorish behavior. Join me in writing to Reason management and asking for stronger moderation:
      
      – David Nott, President, Reason Foundation, davidnott (at reason dot org)
      – Jennifer Kambara, Director of Supporter Relations, jennifer.kambara (at reason dot org)
      – Nick Gillespie, nick (at reason dot org)
      – Katherine Mangu-Ward, kmward (at reason dot org)
      – Ronald Bailey, rbailey (at reason dot org)
      
      Let’s stop putting up with it.
      1. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP) 5 years ago
        
        Maybe you wouldn't get relentlessly mocked if you weren't a fallacious shitposter, baby Jeffy. You keep trying to make a comeback in a new sock, but you get called out every time. That is because people with half a brain can recognize your faulty logic regardless of the handle you choose to display.
        
        But by all means, go ahead and request 'the authorities' protect you from the mean bullies. It's not the other kids' fault. Nobody wants to play with you. You are a coward and a totalitarian to the core.
        
        Morty 5 years ago
        
        I’m not Jeff, and the “authorities” are the people who pay for this website.
        
        bs 5 years ago
        
        And you never addressed his point. You are advocating for censorship. Explain how you are different than any garden variety progressive. You know, the kind that typically writes for Reason.
      2. R Mac 5 years ago
        
        So constantly saying people that don’t hate Trump are sucking his cock, licking his balls and eating his ass isn’t boorish?
        
        Fuck off you dishonest hypocrite.
        
        De Oppresso Liber 5 years ago
        
        Morty hasn't said any of that, that I've seen. I refrained from responding to insults for quite a while before I let you have it. The boorish behavior has, almost entirely (Palin and Tony the exceptions) come from Trump fans.
        
        What a shock! The boor fan club is boorish.
        
        R Mac 5 years ago
        
        No, but you say it regularly, and he specifically made that statement towards you.
        
        Of course you’ll justify your behavior by blaming others for it. Just another way to be dishonest.
        
        Morty 5 years ago
        
        Thank you for recognizing that I haven’t mocked anyone.
        
        R Mac 5 years ago
        
        Too bad you don’t recognize that DOL frequently tells people they suck Trumps dick. Is that boorish or not?
        
        Or does he not count because you’re both Lying Jeffy?
      3. De Oppresso Liber 5 years ago
        
        I appreciate your efforts. I just don't think they really care.
        Plus they might think that comment fights are good for their page views. I doubt that is true, but you never know.
        
        R Mac 5 years ago
        
        So you don’t appreciate his efforts. Sad.
      4. Red Rocks White Privilege 5 years ago
        
        You serious with this shit? This is a comment board that got subpeona'd by the NY DA because a bunch of commenters said that a totalitarian judge needed to get thrown in a woodchipper. When Reason asked us not to comment further on it due to the legal issues, the board responded in its typical elegant fashion and a bunch of them crafted woodchipper-themed screennames.
        
        It takes a lot to actually get banned--you have to post links to kiddie porn like Shriek did. Other than that, it's always been a free-for-all. If you can't handle that, you'd probably be better off at a place like Patterico or Balloon Juice, which seem to be more your speed.
        
        Morty 5 years ago
        
        It’s worth asking. Especially, reaching out to David Nott, who is paying good money to support a website where a bunch of Trump supporters gather every day to complain about the Reason writing staff and brag about how they aren’t contributing anything during the fundraisers.
        
        bs 5 years ago
        
        Libertarians for Censorship.
        
        I can see why you adore Reason so much.
2. MollyGodiva 5 years ago
  
  The "rules" were written by the major parties in order to make it difficult for smaller parties to get on the ballot. That is wrong. Voters should have more choices as to who to vote for.
Idle Hands 5 years ago

How has he changed his position? He's literally advocated for Gov to make decisions on their own the whole time. Literally that's been the largest criticism of him throughout this process that he hasn't deployed the military to lock the whole country down. Him disagreeing about whether certain business's should be allowed to open is largely irrelevant to his overall position and in now way is a departure from him being for people being allowed to leave their fucking house.
Trump's al Gore, learn to code Karen 5 years ago

We should be like Sweden, a thread:

The Swedish experiment looks like it’s paying off
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-swedish-experiment-looks-like-it-s-paying-off

Two weeks ago, I wrote about ‘the Swedish experiment’ in The Spectator. As the world went into lockdown, Sweden opted for a different approach to tackling coronavirus: cities, schools and restaurants have remained open. This was judged by critics to be utterly foolish: it would allow the virus to spread much faster than elsewhere, we were told, leading to tens of thousands of deaths. Hospitals would become like warzones. As Sweden was two weeks behind the UK on the epidemic curve, most British experts said we’d pay the price for our approach when we were at the peak. Come back in two weeks, I was told. Let's see what you're saying then. So here I am.

I'm happy to say that those fears haven’t materialised. But the pressure on Sweden to change tack hasn’t gone away. We haven't u-turned. We’re careful, staying inside a lot more. But schools and shops remain open. Unlike some countries on the continent, no one is asking for ‘our papers’ when we move around in cities. The police don’t stop us and ask why we are spending so much time outdoors: authorities rather encourage it. No one is prying in shopping baskets to make sure you only buy essentials.

The country’s Public Health Agency and the ‘state epidemiologist’, Anders Tegnell, have kept their cool and still don’t recommend a lockdown. They are getting criticised by scientific modellers but the agency is sticking to its own model of how the virus is expected to develop and what pressure hospitals will be under. The government still heeds the agency’s advice; no party in the opposition argues for a lockdown. Rather, opinion polls show that Swedes remain strongly in favour of the country’s liberal approach to the pandemic.
1. Trump's al Gore, learn to code Karen 5 years ago
  
  Sweden epidemiologist says herd immunity only ‘weeks’ away despite resisting national lockdown
  
  https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/sweden-epidemiologist-says-herd-immunity-only-weeks-away-despite-resisting-national-lockdown
  
  “In major parts of Sweden, around Stockholm, we have reached a plateau (in new cases), and we’re already seeing the effect of herd immunity, and in a few weeks’ time, we’ll see even more of the effects of that,” Tegnell said. “And in the rest of the country, the situation is stable.”
  1. Trump's al Gore, learn to code Karen 5 years ago
    
    Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach 'herd immunity' in weeks
    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/22/no-lockdown-in-sweden-but-stockholm-could-see-herd-immunity-in-weeks.html
    
    Tegnell said sampling and modeling data indicated that 20% of Stockholm's population is already immune to the virus, and that "in a few weeks' time we might reach herd immunity and we believe that is why we're seeing a slow decline in cases, in spite of sampling (testing for the coronavirus) more and more."
    1. Tom Bombadil 5 years ago
      
      I'm happy for Sweden if they get a good result, but I think it is early to say that anyone is immune to THE VIRUS. I don't think there is only a THE VIRUS.
      1. DaveSs 5 years ago
        
        May not be completely immune, but if you've had it once there is a very good chance the next time you get it you'll be better able to handle it and/or at least have some expectation of how you'll handle it. Unless you are old or infirm then every illness you get is a crapshoot.
        
        At the end of the day, all these shutdowns and house arrest orders are delaying the inevitable. We are all gonna get this at some point.
        
        Tom Bombadil 5 years ago
        
        My main support for the Swedish approach is that the virus is much closer to a nothing burger (or nothing meatball) than the hysteria indicates.
      2. Sevo 5 years ago
        
        Which is totally irrelevant; you do NOT shut down the largest economy in the world over something that looks about as bad as the seasonal flu.
        
        Tom Bombadil 5 years ago
        
        Agreed just above you.
      3. MikeT1986 5 years ago
        
        Obvious disclaimer: I'm not a doctor I'm paraphrasing things I've read.
        
        Notice how kids get floored by colds and adults don't? some of that is just adults being more used to sickness and suffering, and some of it is your immune system being prepared for fighting things like which ever cold you caught.
        
        One guess as to the people who are asymptomatic or immune (of note my wife was diagnosed and got fairly sick, but I didn't, and we live in a one bedroom) is that they recently had one of the Coronavirus Colds so their body was more prepped to deal with this new one.
    2. Trump's al Gore, learn to code Karen 5 years ago
      
      https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/03/29/fauci_dont_worry_about_best-case_worst-case_predictions_about_coronavirus.html#!
      
      Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told CNN's Jake Tapper Sunday on "State of the Union" that while models predict that up to 200,000 Americans could die from the coronavirus pandemic, they are still only models.
      
      "There are things called models, and when someone creates a model, they put in various assumptions. And the model is only as good and as accurate as your assumptions," he said. "And whenever the modelers come in, they give a worst-case scenario and a best-case scenario. Generally, the reality is somewhere in the middle. I've never seen a model of the diseases that I've dealt with where the worst-case scenario actually came out. They always overshoot."
2. Rufus The Monocled 5 years ago
  
  We should all be pulling for Sweden.
  
  If they succeed it will show expose our leadership for the utter fools they are.
  1. Don't look at me! 5 years ago
    
    I’m surprised Cuomo hasn’t invaded Sweden for “endangering their citizens”.
  2. mad.casual 5 years ago
    
    It's really too bad that Reason played the 'The Libertarian Case for Bernie Sanders' card in the 2016 election.
    
    Considering that, at this point, Sweden's social democracy looks more libertarian than our federal republic, there's an actual case (albeit tongue-in-cheek) libertarian case for Sanders.
  3. Karl Hungus 5 years ago
    
    We should all be pulling for Sweden.
    
    The biggest cheerleaders for the lockdown "orders" are hoping right now that Sweden fails spectacularly. If large numbers of dead is what takes to prevent them from having egg on their faces, then so be it.
    1. Frank_Garrett 5 years ago
      
      I know a few 'Facebook' friends that seem to be absolutely giddy every time a Swede dies of the virus. Tap dancing on graves in order to show how 'right' the lock downs are.
  4. Overt 5 years ago
    
    Don't worry, the articles are already lining up to explain why Sweden is totes different, yo. They have been cheerleading every death in Sweden, explaining that the US should ignore it. And when this ends, they will do everything in their power to explain that it was Sweden's awesome healthcare system, demographics, etc that makes it inapplicable to North America.
Fist of Etiquette 5 years ago

Trump had tried to claim earlier in the day that Redfield had been "totally misquoted by Fake News."

He wasn't?
1. JesseAz 5 years ago
  
  I mean, just because Redfield came out and explained how WaPo misquoted him doesn't make Trump right... or something like that.
Fist of Etiquette 5 years ago

Two domestic cats in New York have tested positive for COVID-19.

Of course cats are getting tested.
1. Earth Skeptic 5 years ago
  
  But are they distancing?
  1. Jerryskids 5 years ago
    
    If your cat starts coughing, hurl him outside because that bastard's about to hork up a hairball on the most expensive and/or most difficult to clean thing it can find.
    1. Tom Bombadil 5 years ago
      
      Nobody needs a reason for hurling a cat outside.
      1. DH 5 years ago
        
        On a side note, if you want to play darts but dont any or a board, just get a mattress and a few cats. We called it Carts.
      2. mad.casual 5 years ago
        
        A cat who runs is a cat with COVID. A cat that stands still is a well trained cat with COVID.
        
        Yesterday, I was just a guy shooting nuisance animals. Today, I'm a hero in the fight against COVID. Reason really oughta do a story about me sometime.
    2. sometimes justice is a chainsaw 5 years ago
      
      You can have cats or nice things. Not both.
2. Unicorn Abattoir 5 years ago
  
  The movie "Cats" is the ultimate in social distancing, since nobody could sit through it.
3. Dillinger 5 years ago
  
  jeebus now I can't order Chinese?
Fist of Etiquette 5 years ago

You're Wrong About podcast looks at the 1980s Satanic Panic

40 years from now what will similar content say about COVID-19?
1. Jerryskids 5 years ago
  
  40 years from now, there will be no podcasts, no internet, no electricity. What few humans are left alive will be living cold and hungry and sick, huddled in caves and eating raw bats. Whether that's due to us failing to do what it takes to stop global warming or because that's what it takes to stop global warming is merely an academic question.
2. Sevo 5 years ago
  
  "40 years from now what will similar content say about COVID-19?"
  
  Probably not much, except to point to it as the excuse tin-pot-dictators used to trigger the worst depression in 80 years.
  1. Muzzled Woodchipper 5 years ago
    
    That won’t be the take at all. It’ll be how THE DISEASE caused economic depression.
    
    The language is already set. Very rarely do you read, even in more “friendly” publications, that the economic catastrophe we’ve unleashed is a result of government shutdowns. What you see everywhere is either the economy is crashing due to CV, or because of “measures taken” to combat the disease. Nowhere do we see the truth: that the government, with enthusiastic media help, crushed the economy based on the highly questionable results of bullshit models.
Fist of Etiquette 5 years ago

I become libertarian when I see people's resourcefulness around stupid rules.

WHO ARE YOU OR THESE PEOPLE TO ARBITRARILY DECIDE WHICH RULES ARE STUPID?
Trump's al Gore, learn to code Karen 5 years ago

The cure is worse than the disease, a thread:

More People Died From Suicide Than Coronavirus In Tennessee This Week
https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/27/more-people-died-from-suicide-than-coronavirus-in-tennessee-this-week/

While it is unclear at this point whether the recent suicides were directly linked to the epidemic of the spread virus, their timing alone is strongly indicative, if not proof that they were. According to local Knoxville news station WBIR, the county’s suicides over the span of two days this week equates to about 10 percent of last year’s total where 83 lives were lost to suicide.
1. Trump's al Gore, learn to code Karen 5 years ago
  
  WALSH: When All Is Said And Done, The Lockdowns May Kill Millions More People Than They Save
  
  https://www.dailywire.com/news/walsh-when-all-is-said-and-done-the-lockdowns-may-kill-millions-more-people-than-they-save
  
  According to a report in the New York Times, the World Food Program is warning that 130 million people face starvation because the “national lockdowns and social distancing measures are drying up work and incomes” and may lead to a devastating disruption of “agricultural production and supply routes.” As the article points out, this problem is compounded by the looting and social destabilization that has taken hold in countries across the globe.
  
  Here at home, massive crowds of people have been forced to wait in lines at food banks that sometimes stretch literally for miles. As 22 million people and counting have been left jobless, and countless business owners stand on the brink, or have already crossed over the brink, of losing everything they worked for, localities are seeing a dramatic rise in suicides, and history tells us there will likely be many thousands more. Add those to the spike in drug overdoses that inevitably accompany even slight increases in the unemployment rate — let alone a 15 percent increase in the span of a few weeks — along with the rises in domestic violence and homelessness, and it’s not hard to see that our strategy to “save lives” may kill many more people than it saves.
  1. Trump's al Gore, learn to code Karen 5 years ago
    
    U.N. warns economic downturn could kill hundreds of thousands of children in 2020
    
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-children-un/u-n-warns-economic-downturn-could-kill-hundreds-of-thousands-of-children-in-2020-idUSKBN21Y2X7
    
    But the U.N. report warned that “economic hardship experienced by families as a result of the global economic downturn could result in an hundreds of thousands of additional child deaths in 2020, reversing the last 2 to 3 years of progress in reducing infant mortality within a single year.”
    
    With businesses shut down and more than a billion people told to stay home to avoid spreading the virus, the International Monetary Fund has predicted the world would this year suffer its steepest downturn since the Great Depression of the 1930s.
    
    The United Nations said an estimated 42 million to 66 million children could fall into extreme poverty as a result of the coronavirus crisis this year, adding to the estimated 386 million children already in extreme poverty in 2019.
    1. Trump's al Gore, learn to code Karen 5 years ago
      
      NY issues do-not-resuscitate guideline for cardiac patients amid coronavirus
      https://nypost.com/2020/04/21/ny-issues-do-not-resuscitate-guideline-for-cardiac-patients/
      
      While paramedics were previously told to spend up to 20 minutes trying to revive people found in cardiac arrest, the change is “necessary during the COVID-19 response to protect the health and safety of EMS providers by limiting their exposure, conserve resources, and ensure optimal use of equipment to save the greatest number of lives,’’ according to a state Health Department memo issued last week.
      
      First responders were outraged over the move.
      
      “They’re not giving people a second chance to live anymore,’’ Oren Barzilay, head of the city union whose members include uniformed EMTs and paramedics, fumed of state officials.
      1. Don't look at me! 5 years ago
        
        Death panels, anyone?
    2. Trump's al Gore, learn to code Karen 5 years ago
      
      https://science.slashdot.org/story/20/04/22/2035254/researchers-to-doctors-stop-putting-covid-19-patients-on-invasive-ventilators
      
      Researchers To Doctors: Stop Putting COVID-19 Patients On Invasive Ventilators (statnews.com)
      
      A paper recently published by The American Society of Tropical Medicine and Hygiene adds further support to recent CDC guidelines for minimizing the use of invasive ventilators. As physicians had been voicing concern that doctors were being too eager to put patients on invasive ventilation and may be doing more harm than good, the investigators looked into outcomes of intubated patients vs. non-intubated patients experiencing hypoxia. Unlike with other forms of pneumonia, they found that COVID-19 patients were unusually damaged by invasive ventilation but also able to tolerate higher levels of anoxia -- to the point that one doctor recalls having to tell patients to get off their cellphones so that they could be intubated. The recommendation is that guidelines be adjusted to discourage invasive ventilation unless a patient is physically struggling to breathe, rather than relying strictly on oxygen levels; otherwise, the use of non-invasive ventilation, such as CPAP and BiPAP, should be encouraged. When invasive ventilation is used, oxygen levels should be minimized in order to reduce the risk of damaging healthy tissue.
      1. Jerryskids 5 years ago
        
        "Oxygen levels should be minimized"? Are you kidding me? No wonder these people on ventilators tend to die - they need oxygen and you're either fucking up their lungs or withholding oxygen. Put them in a plastic bag and pump that bag full of oxygen.
        
        MikeT1986 5 years ago
        
        They've seen where excessive levels of oxygen cause a strong negative reaction. Some people who'd recovered attempted Scuba Diving and the high O2 in the tanks floored them.
        
        Tom Bombadil 5 years ago
        
        Scuba tanks are filled with normal air.
        
        Muzzled Woodchipper 5 years ago
        
        Sometimes.
        
        But divers having been using mixed gases for a very long time. And not just commercial or deep divers who use all kinds of fancy gas mixes. Divers of all kinds have been using Nitrox for well over 20 years. Nitrox, for divers, is a mix that is anything with an O2 mix higher than normal air (~20%) to about ~40%.
        
        Even in the 90s I was diving regularly with a 36-38% mix. Virtually every weekend. I worked in a dive shop in Miami in the late 90s while I ran the dive club at FIU and was certified to do custom nitrox mixes for divers. You can stay down much longer without risking the bends, and you don’t require long safety stops on the way back up.
        
        Gray_Jay 5 years ago
        
        MW, do you run into an oxygen toxicity limit diving on hyperoxic blends like the 35-65 O2/N2 you were mentioning? Or does that only come up for deeper dives?
        
        It would seem to me that you'd hit the oxygen toxicity concentration earlier diving deep on a hyperoxic blend, even if that meant you could stave off narcing or that your deco profile would be a lot easier.
        
        Gray_Jay 5 years ago
        
        At sufficient depth, PO2 can be much higher than atmospheric. Even on air. Enough to be toxic. 1.4 atmospheres of O2 rings a bell as the limit, but I think it's actually a bit higher. You'd still hit that diving to 6 ATM in seawater, or about 190 feet or so. And be fighting nitrogen narcosis at the same time.
        
        It's not uncommon to have a 100% O2 bottle available at a deco stop around 10-15 feet, to assist in clearing nitrogen. Fairly technical diving though, which most divers don't and shouldn't do.
        
        Idle Hands 5 years ago
        
        I knew my suggestion this would all lead to us walking around in condom suits would prove to be prescient.
        
        Red Rocks White Privilege 5 years ago
        
        Wonder how many of the deaths happened due to the virus causing hypoxia, rather than a simply inability to breathe on their own.
    3. Earth Skeptic 5 years ago
      
      All of the above is a feature and not a bug. Damned Steven Pinker and others kept showing data that proved humanity was doing better than ever, and undercutting the case for massive government intervention and dependency, aka socialism. Now the authoritarian collectivists can demonstrate how bad things are, due to the failure of market capitalism, and justify the new green revolution. Or something.
  2. Idle Hands 5 years ago
    
    Most studies point to 10's of thousands like around 30 thousand excess deaths for every 1 percentage of unemployment. Now I have my doubts that it's that large because it's largely unprovable to me. But these fucking doomers throw that in our face every election cycle about why we need a safety net and why it needs to be expanded every election cycle. So fuck them. This doesn't get into the entire us aid apparatus that is going to have to rerouted inward after this because of the economic devastation that will lead to tens of millions of socioeconmic and health consequences plus you know we feed the world.
    1. Trump's al Gore, learn to code Karen 5 years ago
      
      Unemployment only kills when the argument is against crapitalism (see what I did there, me genius), not when the argument is against authoritarian government lockdowns.
    2. Don't look at me! 5 years ago
      
      Are all those numbers generated by models?
Fist of Etiquette 5 years ago

Why isn't Canada seeing the same supermarket shortages as the U.S.?

They let the greedy store owners take advantage of the situation and gouge the hosers!
1. Tom Bombadil 5 years ago
  
  Take off.
2. Jerryskids 5 years ago
  
  The maple syrup harvest was particularly good this year.
Sometimes a Great Notion 5 years ago

Five factors:

1. Transparency
2. No law enforcement access
3. Sunset provision
4. Clear guidelines for collection
5. Limits on data retention
6. LIE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ABOUT 1-5
1. Earth Skeptic 5 years ago
  
  7. Profit!
Trump's al Gore, learn to code Karen 5 years ago

How a Young Joe Biden Became the Architect of the Government's Asset Forfeiture Program
https://fee.org/articles/how-a-young-joe-biden-became-the-architect-of-the-governments-asset-forfeiture-program/
Trump's al Gore, learn to code Karen 5 years ago

Lee Smith: What's Good for Communist China Is Good for America, Dianne Feinstein Says, As She Gets Rich on China Deals
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/386932.php
Trump's al Gore, learn to code Karen 5 years ago

https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1253135429978648576

Alex Berenson
@AlexBerenson
1/ The people writing these articles, and the people quoted in them, would have a lot more credibility if they would talk honestly about the fact that outside of NYC (and arguably NOLA/Detroit) the US has seen no serious problems from #COVID...

Alex Berenson
@AlexBerenson
·
12h
Replying to
@AlexBerenson
2/ That the models were just wrong last month, and that #COVID is simply not as dangerous as it appeared a few weeks ago, except to the elderly and people with severe comorbidities. One can acknowledge all that and still argue for lockdowns...
Alex Berenson
@AlexBerenson
·
12h
3/ Based mainly on what happened in NYC - with a coherent explanation as to why that is generalizable to the rest of the US. But to have the same people who forecast doom last month (and it is the SAME people) keep doing so no longer means much to anyone who's paying attention...
Alex Berenson
@AlexBerenson
·
12h
4/ They'd also have more credibility if they talked honestly about the fact that European countries are now loosening lockdowns and opening schools, instead of pretending that this trend is confined to a handful of red states.
Ken Shultz 5 years ago

"The president reiterated that his administration has established benchmarks that states should clear before they begin the reopening process. The rules recommend 14 days of declining new infections, as well as 14 days of decling covid-like syndromic cases and influenza-like illnesses, before moving to the reopening phase Kemp has called for.

"I told the governor of Georgia, Brian Kemp, that I disagree strongly with his decision to open certain facilities which are in violation of the Phase I guidelines for the incredible people of Georgia," Trump said.

"At the same time, he must do what he thinks is right," Trump continued. "But I disagree with him on what he's doing."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-disagrees-strongly-with-georgia-governors-plan-to-reopen-some-businesses

I'm seeing three pertinent points here:

1) The disagreement seems to be over specific facilities--like gyms that are open to the public. President Trump isn't disagreeing with the Governor of Georgia over reopening the entire economy. He's disagreeing with the opening of specific facilities that might be highly susceptible to spreading the disease--like people sharing shower stalls or gym equipment.

2) It's an election year, and President Trump, understandably, doesn't want to open himself up to criticism for Georgia opening up their economy if a place like a public gym becomes the origin of a new outbreak. If a new outbreak emerged from a gym after Georgia's economy was reopened and President Trump didn't voice his opposition to opening gyms, etc., specifically, then the press would jump on his case for it in an election year as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow.

3) President Trump is emphatically supporting the Governor's decision to reopen both Georgia's economy and the public gyms in Georgia--despite his own opposition. This is perfectly consistent with the libertarian ideal, which is all about people being free to make choices for themselves over the objections of politicians. It is unclear to me whether President Trump is saying he would refuse to open the gyms if he were the governor of Georgia. President Trump might simply be content to voice his opposition and let people do what they want to do.

Personally, I'd strongly recommend people avoid public gyms for the time being, as well--but that doesn't mean I'd legally compel gyms to stay closed during the pandemic. I see nothing here to show that President Trump's stance on this is different from mine.
1. Tom Bombadil 5 years ago
  
  If you were trying to spread a virus and gyms didn't exist, you'd invent them.
  1. Ken Shultz 5 years ago
    
    I bet they all don't even want to open.
    
    Their insurance policies may be dictating things here.
    
    If I'm they're insurer, I've already been on the phone with them and explaining it to them if their policy doesn't cover them if they're sued for negligence.
    1. Jeb Kerman 5 years ago
      
      ^^ Seeing this in Colorado. Gardening stores and hair salons are opening up but not all of them. The small, family run stores are opening up sooner than the franchises.
      
      It's a good approach, I think. Let shop owners decide for themselves based on their own risk assessment and needs when to open.
      
      Let customers decide when and where to shop based on their own risk assessment and needs.
      1. Tom Bombadil 5 years ago
        
        That should have been the universal guiding principle from day 1.
        
        Muzzled Woodchipper 5 years ago
        
        But there was a economy to kill and shade to throw.
  2. Don't look at me! 5 years ago
    
    How many fatasses and old people go to gyms?
    1. Ron 5 years ago
      
      quite a few. In my town during teh day the gyms are littered with old timers. it ugly out there
      1. Tom Bombadil 5 years ago
        
        Some guys like fat asses.
        
        /looking at you, John
        
        Don't look at me! 5 years ago
        
        John has a fat ass?
        
        Tom Bombadil 5 years ago
        
        He's never revealed that, only his fetish.
2. Commenter_XY 5 years ago
  
  Every single PPA loan the Fourth Estate applies for should be summarily denied. The press can subsist on private money. Not a penny for the MSM.
Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP) 5 years ago

I plead with the American public, with the governors, with the mayors for the people of your responsibility

Right here is the fucking problem. We elect officials to represent us, not to be responsible for us. I hope Fauci gets coronavirus 18 months from now and dies choking on his own fluids while pleading for help in the lobby of one of the many, many abandoned hospitals that are the inevitable result of his advice.
1. Earth Skeptic 5 years ago
  
  But I surrendered my autonomy to my feudal lord in return for protection and emotional support.
  --American Serf
  1. Sevo 5 years ago
    
    GIVE ME LIBERTY, unless it means I might catch a cold, in which case, lock me and everyone else up.....
    1. Jerryskids 5 years ago
      
      I was over at my nephew's last weekend and we started discussing the Biblical plagues, the locusts in Africa and the forest fires in Australia and now the coronavirus and how his son better be finding some lamb's blood to splash on the front door, and the conversation turned to Moses and how long was he up the mountain that his followers had time to build a golden calf and a whole new religion and what a bunch of whiny crybabies they must have been to say "Well, sure, you led us out of bondage in Egypt but what have you done for us lately? We've got no food and no water and no maps so screw you, we're going to find somebody who can take better care of us than you, what good is freedom if it means there's nobody to take care of us?" It seems people have preferred security to liberty for a long time.
Trump's al Gore, learn to code Karen 5 years ago

Over the last six weeks, there have now been over 26 million that have filed for unemployment benefits. Still hard to imagine.

The lockdown is over the second the April unemployment % is released. If you're out of a job with 4% unemployment, you're not in horrible shape. If 20% are unemployed, you are. Everyone will want to be the first out ready to work to get ahead of those that believe the media.
1. Don't look at me! 5 years ago
  
  Just be sure to get an essential job.
2. mamabug 5 years ago
  
  I'm recruiting for an IT position right now that is roughly at a senior individual contributor level. Since the tech-bubble burst in 2000, I have never seen problems getting a job if you were a skilled IT worker and it is always a struggle to find qualified people to hire.
  This past week, I saw at least two resumes for this job from people who have/had executive level responsibilities at their current/former employer. Things may be much worse than we realize.
  
  If 100 years of communism has taught us anything, it is that the government sucks at centrally planning economies.
OpenBordersLiberal-tarian 5 years ago

"Weekly jobless claims come in at 4.4 million, against expectations of 4.2 million. Over the last six weeks, there have now been over 26 million that have filed for unemployment benefits. Still hard to imagine."

Worst. Economy. Ever.

With so many people becoming unemployed so fast, it's never been more important to implement the Koch / Reason policy of unlimited, unrestricted immigration.

#LockDownTheInterior
#OpenTheBorders
1. Ken Shultz 5 years ago
  
  I don't think immigration, across our southern border, anyway, is likely to be much of a problem with the unemployment rate so high.
  
  If there's a great irony here, it'll be states that implemented lock-downs asking for federal tax dollars to deal with the extreme unemployment those lock-down orders created.
  
  Give Albany and Sacramento nothing.
Sevo 5 years ago

"California Goes Fully Tyrannical, Banning Protests on State Property"
[...]
"California seems to be itching to find out where their citizens have drawn a line in the sand between freedom and security."
https://thewashingtonsentinel.com/california-goes-fully-tyrannical-banning-protests-on-state-property/

Since ENB can't tie this to Trump, I was certain it wasn't covered.
1. Trump's al Gore, learn to code Karen 5 years ago
  
  https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2020/04/protests-left-get-pass-while-conservatives-are-daniel-greenfield/
  
  Police cracked down on the ‘reopen’ protests, arresting an organizer in New Jersey, while the media condemned them, spun conspiracy theories trying to tie them to members of the Trump administration, and falsely accused protesters of causing an increase in coronavirus in Kentucky.
  
  Facebook deleted protest groups in coordination with state governments, labeling the protests, illegal.
  
  Blue state governments, dot com overlords, and the media all warned that protesting in the age of the coronavirus was dangerous and illegal. Even if the protesters were in cars or maintaining social distance.
  
  But meanwhile Refuse Fascism, a radical leftist organization created by members of the Revolutionary Communist Party, was holding its own anti-Trump protests with no interference from the authorities.
  
  And no negative coverage from the media.
  1. TallDave 5 years ago
    
    just keep a list so we can all remember exactly how insane it was
Commenter_XY 5 years ago

Elizabeth Nolan Brown....You are a liar and an agitprop whore.
1. sometimes justice is a chainsaw 5 years ago
  
  We're all adults here you don't need to soft-pedal anything.
2. Gray_Jay 5 years ago
  
  I did a sharp double-take when I saw who wrote that post.
  
  Not that this magazine or website cares in the slightest, but when posters as previously reasonable (Drink!) and levelheaded as XY, write comments about your writers as incendiary as that last one, your writer is probably doing something wrong.
  
  Hell, I'm only here to read a quarter of the comments anyway.
  1. Tom Bombadil 5 years ago
    
    Yeah, the gay quarter.
    
    NTTAWWT
    1. Gray_Jay 5 years ago
      
      LOL.
      
      Who are the openly gay posters besides Tony anyway?
3. R Mac 5 years ago
  
  She’s blatantly dishonest of the exchange. Trump was asked specifically about massage and tattoo parlors.
  1. Commenter_XY 5 years ago
    
    Hence, my on point description of ENB. Worthless POS doesn't quite do her justice.
  2. Tom Bombadil 5 years ago
    
    Trump is against opening massage parlors.
    
    And people said he couldn't act Presidential.
Sevo 5 years ago

"Sheriff of Washington county with first US coronavirus case refuses to enforce stay-at-home order "
[...]
""As your Snohomish County Sheriff, yes I believe that preventing business owners to operate their businesses and provide for their families intrudes on our right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I am greatly concerned for our small business owners and single-income families who have lost their primary source of income needed for survival," Fortney wrote.
The sheriff vowed to "always put your constitutional rights above politics or popular opinion."
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/sheriff-of-washington-county-with-first-us-coronavirus-case-refuses-to-enforce-stay-at-home-order/ar-BB133xqB

Fortney for POTUS!
Trump's al Gore, learn to code Karen 5 years ago

Cops AGAINST masks: Houston police union says it won’t enforce ‘IDIOTIC’ order mandating face covers for everyone over 10

https://www.rt.com/usa/486606-houston-police-mask-orders/

HPOU response to @LinaHidalgoTX draconian mask order: “Now we want to be very clear, HPOU believes everyone should be wearing a mask in public, in order to protect themselves from the virus and we are encouraging all of our officers to wear a mask. However, we draw the line...”
1. Tom Bombadil 5 years ago
  
  I don't think Police Unions are engaged in law enforcement.
Sevo 5 years ago

The straw-grasping is getting obvious:

"Michelle Obama's star power could help Biden unite Democrats"
[...]
"The former first lady is a unique figure in a deeply polarizing political environment, exceedingly popular with the party faithful while also having some appeal with Republicans and independents"
https://madison.com/news/national/govt-and-politics/michelle-obamas-star-power-could-help-biden-unite-democrats/article_b7321e50-6dc2-5fcf-bfc6-6df1eae313d8.html

Yep, all the I-voters I know are just gaga over Ms. Obo! How about you?
1. Formerly Cynical Asshole 5 years ago
  
  I can see the bumper stickers now:
  
  "Biden/ Chewbacca 2020 - because fuck it, it's all we've got at this point!"
  1. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP) 5 years ago
    
    Then Chewie gets blown up in a transport and Nancy Pelosi becomes President when it it is revealed that a snake is articulating Biden's festering corpse? No fucking way!
    1. Sevo 5 years ago
      
      The hell, you say!
      It'll be HRC vs. Pelosi in a cage match for POTUS!
2. Red Rocks White Privilege 5 years ago
  
  NPR was pumping this shit a couple days ago, which means the DNC is probably lobbying her hard to sign on so she can take over when Biden dies due to ~~a bad case of being smothered by a Secret Service agent~~ natural causes.
  
  The problem is that Michelle is not Hillary Clinton--she's a self-important snob, not a power-hungry lich--and nothing she's said indicates that she's eager to dive back in to the stupidity of national politics. She appears perfectly happy to sit back and collect the OFA millions that her husband set up, while doing puff interviews in safe environments.
  
  I can't think of a more deserving fate for the DNC, who allowed Michelle and her husband to essentially gut the party's fund-raising capabilities while leaving it effectively leaderless and with no other driving philosophy other than blatant, naked graft.
Tom Bombadil 5 years ago

I see no evidence that Trump's disagreements with Georgia's plan constitute a "change of course". What a huge waste of words ENB is.
Formerly Cynical Asshole 5 years ago

Yesssssss

"Sounds like steam escaping."
1. Rich 5 years ago
  
  You're doing the French Mistake!
  1. Unicorn Abattoir 5 years ago
    
    Throw out your hands
    Stick out your tush
    Hands on your hips
    Give them a push
    You'll be surprised you're doing the French mistake
    
    Obligatory.
Knutsack 5 years ago

Fuck, ENB. You've been so wrong about so many things, I'm beginning to think I need to be opposite your position on sex work and abortions.

I don't understand how a magazine that purports to find nuance and not toe any political party line, and that is willing to use logic rather than feelings, can be so ham-handed and stupid with a blunt reading of all things Trump. I'm not saying you have to like the guy, but look into whether your position is really going to stand up when you go after him. It makes you look stupid when it backfires--when your logic doesn't hold up.

And why the fuck does a magazine lead with these stupid takes everyday?

Glibertarians is way better than this.
Rufus The Monocled 5 years ago

You know, it's ironic and points to why it's a bad idea to go the route we just did.

People accept like sheep stay at home orders because 'save lives' suspending any critical thinking assets they may possess to submit to authority and fear.

Yet, when that same authority says, 'It may be a good idea to reopen up' they lash out demanding they stay in self-isolation.

Take schools. Here, the government seems to be leaning towards opening them even if for just a month (which I agree with 100%) but parents and school boards - having been fed a steady diet of precautionary principle propaganda - are resisting.

Like I said, the longer this goes, the more damage we do on so many levels.
1. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP) 5 years ago
  
  Why would the teachers and admins want schools reopened? They are getting paid! If the government were furloughing workers we would be seeing 30+% unenployment. 1 out of every 8 employees work for some level of government.
  
  and in other news:
  As funds from the PPP come in, employers are supposed to use that money to pay their workers, but some are reporting their employees do not want to be paid because they are receiving more money collecting unemployment.
  
  The conflict of interest for a huge percentage of the workforce in opening up is glaring. But by all means, let's listen to the clingers.
  (hint: most of these clingers are not Kirkland's flyover folk).
  1. Sevo 5 years ago
    
    WSJ's been running a series on the unemployed who do not want to return to work; they make more from the gov't handouts.
lap83 5 years ago

The about-face provides even more evidence that Trump's big "liberation" energy was nothing more than a cynical political calculation.

Yeah, Trump is the one being cynical.

This is what he actually says: "Maybe you wait a little bit longer until you get to a phase two," Trump said during his nightly televised Q&A session on Wednesday. "I'm going to let him make his decision, but I told him, I totally disagree."

In an effort to bash everything Trump says and does, journalists are willing to look like they are incapable of nuanced thought. Trump had a definite opinion on the states who were going overboard with restrictions and yet he also has an opinion on governors who open up too much too soon. I'm not saying I agree with him, but it's funny to see how Trump's (sophisticated, erudite) critics are apparently less nuanced than he is now.
1. Rufus The Monocled 5 years ago
  
  ENB sided with Maher during the Crenshaw interview.
  
  ENB: What's the problem?
  1. Commenter_XY 5 years ago
    
    ENB and her warped thinking is the problem.
  2. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 5 years ago
    
    You're a fucking idiot, Rufus. Go back under rock in Canada.
    1. Rufus The Monocled 5 years ago
      
      Better there then where you've been apparently.
    2. bs 5 years ago
      
      Still pissy that Maher got owned that badly without his captive heckling hyenas? It's tough when you lose your heroes.
Formerly Cynical Asshole 5 years ago

There's more evidence that COVID-19 was infecting Americans earlier and in greater numbers than initially realized. "By the time New York City confirmed its first case of the coronavirus on March 1, thousands of infections were already silently spreading through the city, a hidden explosion of a disease that many still viewed as a remote threat as the city awaited the first signs of spring," reports The New York Times.

Considering the Chinese now believe that "patient zero" first became infected back in mid November (and that's assuming they're actually telling the truth - it may have been earlier, who the hell knows) I'd say it's probably a pretty safe bet that the first real case in the US and elsewhere was probably sometime in January if not sooner given how many people travel to and from China.

IIRC, there were a lot of flu cases around that time, maybe some of those earlier flu cases were actually coronavirus infections? Speaking for myself I had the flu in mid to late January. I had a fairly mild fever for a couple of days, a dry cough, and some mild shortness of breathe that at the time I chalked up to some minor chest congestion.

Sounds a lot like mild COVID-19 symptoms, but who knows. I should also add that I have a co-worker who visited Taiwan and Thailand (not mainland China though) in late December and also had a mild case of the flu shortly after he got back. If it was spreading earlier than thought here and in China, it's possible that maybe it was spreading earlier than thought in other countries as well. If only there was some way to test for antibodies...
1. Rufus The Monocled 5 years ago
  
  No-one knows shit. I know a few people who exhibited symptoms and ran to get tested and find out they were negative - both figuratively and literally.
  
  I ain't going to get no Q-Tip shoved up my nose unless I have to absolutely do so.
2. MikeT1986 5 years ago
  
  Family friends visited Europe in December, had a tour-guide back from east Asia who couldn't get up a flight of stairs without a spastic cough. They ended up sick with a month of respiratory issues that were chalked up to "bad flu".
3. Muzzled Woodchipper 5 years ago
  
  Didn’t a couple of autopsies done by the latest study in CA show people died of CV well before it officially hit in WA?
  
  You can’t tell me that thousands of people travelled between China and the US daily for 2+ months while the virus was spreading in Wuhan and elsewhere, most of which between China and the west coast, yet the virus somehow didn’t make it here.
  1. Gray_Jay 5 years ago
    
    Early February. Which still isn't as early as it should be, given a typically 3-5 week period between infection and death. The PLA lab down the street from the wet market, issued a warning about some sort of novel pneumonia in Wuhan in late November. There were screen shots of an email sent out by that epidemiology unit.
    
    Wuhan is basically the Pittsburgh of China, only much more so, and a hell of a lot bigger. Giant industrial city on a major river. I saw a lot of Chinese equipment for the offshore oil industry with made/manufactured in Wuhan, or a Wuhan address on the promotional literature. There would be a lot of international travel to and from there.
    
    How many infection/transmission amplification cycles are reasonable to suppose between the initial infection in Wuhan in late October/early November, up to the first expected US death? 13-15 weeks sounds too long to me.
4. TallDave 5 years ago
  
  Taiwan was already warning WHO about H2H by Dec 30, so yeah.
  
  Imagine if Trump had sealed the borders Jan 1... his own party might have removed him from office.
Under_Pressure 5 years ago

So driving into work this morning, I noticed that the electronic sign outside the big, new, however many million dollar outpatient clinic that was built a couple years ago by one of the two warring corporate health systems in the area was flashing "now accepting cloth mask donations." WTF? A for profit corporation asking people to donate supplies to them? Obviously I'm all about free enterprise and have no problem with them being a for profit outfit, and if people really want to give them things for free, I'm not going to stop them. But... how about advertising that you will PAY $X per mask? Give these stay at home mommies and old ladies something to do make a few bucks while locked at home? I get there might be some potential legal issues that may not exist when there is no exchange of money involved, but that's not our problem. Get the government to suspend or eliminate those. But because all healthcare workers and providers are "heroes," people don't even think about it; they just gush about how they want to do anything to help these brave souls battling the 6 confirmed cases in the entire county.

I also noticed that McDonalds gives you a breakfast meal for free if you are a medical worker or first responder now. I'm sure you work up quite an appetite sitting on your ass taking selfies with your PPE on to post on Facebook and farm all those "OMG YOU ARE SO STUNNING AND BRAVE" comments.
1. Rufus The Monocled 5 years ago
  
  My buddy works at a hospital. He's nauseated by the hero-worshipping.
  
  I guess we're the meanies for thinking this is absurd behavior.
  
  As for the masks, like you, I applaud the entrepreneurial spirt and creativity but people shouldn't overlook the fact this is actually problematic what happened.
  
  Only in the West to do we take a stupid mask that's a reality in Asia and turn it into some insufferable political wedge and narcissistic activity.
  
  People selling decorative masks is great on one side, but points to a deeper malaise on some level on the other I reckon.
  1. Rufus The Monocled 5 years ago
    
    Teachers are especially vulnerable to soppy stuff. My wife is purchasing a couple of those decorative masks to support a colleague in case the go back to work.
    
    Again, on one end it's harmless and finding positive in bad events.
    
    On the other, it makes you wonder what the heck have we done to our economy that we can't produce masks on a mass level?
    1. Sevo 5 years ago
      
      "On the other, it makes you wonder what the heck have we done to our economy that we can’t produce masks on a mass level?"
      
      We can, but it takes tooling to do so, and I'd bet those who could tool-up are looking at this as a fad; demand's gonna drop like a rock soon.
      1. Don't look at me! 5 years ago
        
        Around here, people gave up on them already.
    2. Idle Hands 5 years ago
      
      I hate teachers more than ever now. Seems like they are the ones most enjoying this time of economic woes.
      1. Weigel's Cock Ring 5 years ago
        
        Ditto. They already had the longest fucking paid vacations of any group of workers in the country, and their paid vacation got even longer this year. They're also the most relentless enablers and expanders of big government we have.
    3. Ron 5 years ago
      
      About the mask issue. In California Gov Newsom said he was buying mask from China instead of a company in California because he claimed it wasn't an essential business and shut it down. there is clearly something crooked between Newsom and China. I hope Newsom doesn't shut down the toilet paper factories as well
    4. Weigel's Cock Ring 5 years ago
      
      On the other, it makes you wonder what the heck have we done to our economy that we can’t produce masks on a mass level?
      
      We sold out our own societies in the name of excessive greed. Yes, for the most part it worked pretty well for a long time, but now we're seeing just what a bad, shortsighted idea it was all along.
      
      Most in the west today don't even seem capable of long-term thinking at all. All anyone thinks about is how can I save or make a few extra bucks today.
      1. ElvisIsReal 5 years ago
        
        Most in the west today don’t even seem capable of long-term thinking at all. All anyone thinks about is how can I save or make a few extra bucks today.
        ----------
        It's not that we don't think about the future, it's just that the big players know the future is government bailouts if anything goes wrong, so why not live on the edge?
2. lap83 5 years ago
  
  But because all healthcare workers and providers are “heroes,” people don’t even think about it; they just gush about how they want to do anything to help these brave souls battling the 6 confirmed cases in the entire county.
  
  I was sympathetic in the beginning and I'm definitely sympathetic to those who are in the hot spots. But the hero-worship is ridiculous. Right now I care more about the ones who don't have jobs, so I'm in the process of finding some out-of-work locals to pay them to do some work around our house. I'm far from a hero, but I'm not doing any less than the various medical professionals in my area who spend most of their time looking for cloth masks and the rest of the time trying to cancel 90% of scheduled medical procedures.
  1. lap83 5 years ago
    
    Also, I REALLY hate the people who gush about the heroes at the nursing homes. Hey, assholes....If you want to do something, take your grandmother out of those cess-pools. If my mom was that age I would not let her be in one and try to make up for it by wearing a t-shirt. Those nursing homes have a disproportionate amount of the virus cases. In my opinion, the country's COVID response should've really involved people to take their grandparents/parents out of nursing homes, maybe subsidizing home care situations instead of, I don't know, paying the airlines to fly empty planes around.
    
    But even most people in this country don't want that. They want to send the old folks to those petri dishes and put up a "Heroes work here!!!!1" banner to make them feel better about it.
    1. Idle Hands 5 years ago
      
      The disconnect between testing and the nursing homes is national tradgedy. Those places and the New York Metro are the largest causes of death from this thing and the fact we aren't doing targeted testing and expending our resources protecting those people is a disgusting indictment of gov in general.
    2. Under_Pressure 5 years ago
      
      Yeah. Especially now- besides being unhealthy and miserable on their best days, currently nursing homes are literally prisons. Residents with weak mental and physical constitutions to begin with are barred from seeing their families, their other friends in the home, or even the unmasked faces of nursing home workers. Half these people aren't even going to remember who they are after all this is done, much less their own families. The residents sure as hell don't get a say in anything they are subjected to, and even the families who are "responsible" for them are treated as if they don't have any rights. It really is horrible, and the pressure for the nursing home is to get and keep as many residents as possible and drag their lives out for as long as possible, no matter how miserable they are, in order to keep those monthly payments rolling in.
  2. Under_Pressure 5 years ago
    
    I saw a photo montage thing somewhere (I think LinkedIn) a few weeks ago that had all these photos of the faces of healthcare workers in scrubs with their masks off and, of course, you could see the lines and marks where the elastic and such had been against their skin. As if these were permanent and this was like a montage of WWI veterans with their limbs blown off. Apparently this was made seriously (not as satire), and of course there were dozens of comments worshiping these people. Now most or all of them very well may have been front line personnel in areas with real problems, so I'm not saying they don't deserve credit if they are. But if they are, the temporary marks from wearing routine hospital PPE have nothing to do with it. The susceptibility of the public to appeals to emotion like this is both hilarious and terrifying.
3. Red Rocks White Privilege 5 years ago
  
  Funny how it's just the hospital workers that deserve all the love and free shit, while the people who are actually keeping the US supply chains from completely degrading into oblivion, so bougie assholes can sit on their couch in comfort and ease and lecture people to stay inside, don't get jack shit.
Rich 5 years ago

As we draw closer to the election, Trump can then claim that the country's economic pain could have been avoided if only everyone had listened to his advice by going out to eat and swarming the beaches months earlier.

As we draw closer to the election, both sides will be increasingly engaged in this kind of unprovable what-ifism. Make sure to acquire barf bags for your popcorn munching.
1. Tom Bombadil 5 years ago
  
  If you thought ENB was unbearable now, just wait until October.
  1. Weigel's Cock Ring 5 years ago
    
    She has been an unbearable cunt since the accursed day she got here.
    1. Tom Bombadil 5 years ago
      
      She's downright feckless.
2. Formerly Cynical Asshole 5 years ago
  
  Make sure to acquire barf bags for your popcorn munching.
  
  Barf bags will probably be the next big shortage.
  1. Rich 5 years ago
    
    The good news is you can easily make one by sewing together face masks!
wearingit 5 years ago

This just in- Trump is a clueless fucking twiddling moron who only knows how to deflect blame and say whatever someone in the room wants him to say.
1. R Mac 5 years ago
  
  Or he was asked a question about massage and tattoo parlors in Georgia opening back up and ENB is a fucking liar and you automatically believe her because it confirms your TDS.
Michael Ejercito 5 years ago

Jobless claims again exceed predictions:

It seems as if the lockdown was not such a good idea.
1. Muzzled Woodchipper 5 years ago
  
  Don’t they always?
  
  I remember this being a weekly thing during the Obama years. Every single month new jobs were up. Until it was quietly revised a few days later that showed new hiring was lower than expected.
R Mac 5 years ago

There’s lies, damn lies, and the bullshit ENB spouts every morning.
De Oppresso Liber 5 years ago

I was right, again. Trump is for lock downs until he against them, and then he is pro again.
https://reason.com/2020/04/21/what-each-side-of-the-covid-19-debate-should-understand-about-the-other/#comment-8221111

Can't wait to see what Ken and soldier have to say now.
1. Don't look at me! 5 years ago
  
  Because you need the guidance?
  1. De Oppresso Liber 5 years ago
    
    LIBERATE yada yada
    NO NOT LIKE THAT
    
    *cult still plays along like there is no inconsistency here.
    1. bs 5 years ago
      
      STOP GOVERNMENT SPENDING!
      WE NEED MORE MONEY FOR PPP AND CHECKS!
      
      Now what were you saying about being in a cult that ignores hypocrisy?
2. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP) 5 years ago
  
  My guess would be: "Go fuck yourself!"
  1. De Oppresso Liber 5 years ago
    
    Probably. They don't have much a fig leaf to hide behind.
    
    I know soldier will say it's a suggestion, not an order. But no one was debating whether Trump could order Governors to lock down or not, (except Trump and his total authority). We were arguing whether or not he supports lock downs. I said he both does and doesn't simultaneously.
    1. Red Rocks White Privilege 5 years ago
      
      Seems to have worked regardless. The smart governors are taking steps to try and get their states' economies working again. The dumb ones are doubling down and keeping things shut indefinitely.
      1. De Oppresso Liber 5 years ago
        
        To be clear, I want many or most restrictions lifted. I just acknowledge that I am not an epidemiologist, and neither is anyone else here, as far as I know.
        
        Geraje Guzba 5 years ago
        
        //I just acknowledge that I am not an epidemiologist//
        
        Because being an epidemiologist has fuck all to do with making a choice as to whether you want to stay in the house, or not; and, more to the point, with whether the government should jump to 11 on the scale of totalitarianism and force you do stay in.
        
        So, I don't know why you bothered "acknowledging" something that is not a secret to anyone that's ever read any of your retarded comments, which is basically everyone that posts here.
        
        Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP) 5 years ago
        
        I can certainly believe you are ex-military. Your fallacious appeals to authority at every opportunity speak to a rich history of bending over every time someone 'superior' to you commands it.
        
        Fuck the epidemiologists. They don't know more than any other systems analyst.
        
        I am guessing that you are not aware that it was actuaries that solved the mystery of the transmission of cholera that enabled London to finally stave of the repeated waves of the epidemic, right? They were selling insurance policies to the poor for the burial of their dead children (50% mortality rate under 5 years of age in London) and discovered the relationship between deaths and the well water. Top men in the government failed to find what guys selling burial policies to people working for slave wages were able to discern.
        
        The market is capable of solving this problem too.
        
        Gray_Jay 5 years ago
        
        Neat, Chuck. I knew about the water well (and communal cups too, right?) vector, but I didn't realize it was actuaries who first figured it out.
    2. bs 5 years ago
      
      Bigger fig leaf than your open borders. I think that turned out well, don't you?
3. Sevo 5 years ago
  
  De Oppresso Liber
  April.23.2020 at 11:58 am
  "I was right, again."
  
  Make sufficient asinine 'predictions' and one will occasionally prove true.
4. Geraje Guzba 5 years ago
  
  False dichotomy. You're smart enough to know that, but too dumb, I suppose, to realize that people can see the shit in your teeth every time you speak.
  1. R Mac 5 years ago
    
    He’s such a dishonest piece of shit he doesn’t even realize that everyone knows he’s dishonest.
    
    It’s such a major component of his personal character he thinks it’s normal.
5. TallDave 5 years ago
  
  LIBERATE TRUMP!!
Dillinger 5 years ago

>>It goes something like this:

projection?
mad.casual 5 years ago

The return of drive-ins?

"Drive-in? You mean like a car wash?" - ~100% of Gen Z, ~99% of Millennials, and ~75% of Gen X
BigGiveNotBigGov 5 years ago

The pachinko machine in Trump's head has shiny little balls of crazy bouncing wildly off of shiny little pins of ignorance. The crazy random noises made by all of this chaos are mistaken by both Trumpers and anti-Trumpers as real policy or ideological positions.
1. Colossal Douchebag 5 years ago
  
  Yawn.
2. bs 5 years ago
  
  So you're saying he's a libertarian then.
3. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP) 5 years ago
  
  Pachinko machines are fun to watch.
Diane Reynolds (Paul.) 5 years ago

Elizabeth Warren's older brother just died from Coronavirus.

Proof again that people of color are disproportionately affected.
1. Red Rocks White Privilege 5 years ago
  
  Warren's not exactly young herself, how old was this guy?
Diane Reynolds (Paul.) 5 years ago

You're Wrong About podcast looks at the 1980s Satanic Panic:

Hopefully in ~2050 we'll have a similar book looking back on the #MeToo/rape panic.
Sarah Palin's Buttplug 5 years ago

Is the Con Man still hawking shitty malaria drugs as a miracle cure for COVID-19?
1. Sevo 5 years ago
  
  It is one of Trump's greatest virtues that he, almost without effort, keeps steaming lefty piles of shit like turd steppin' and fetchin' like their pants is on fire and their ass is catchin'
  Dance on, turd, and fuck off.
2. bs 5 years ago
  
  Is WaPo still claiming this is just the flu?
Sarah Palin's Buttplug 5 years ago

Gilead's Remdesivir doesn't work on Covod-19.

That just crossed the wires.

This shit can't be stopped.

#TrumpVirus
1. Red Rocks White Privilege 5 years ago
  
  Sorry for your genetically inferior immune system.
Geraje Guzba 5 years ago

So, apparently, millions in NYC already had the damn thing so all of our containment measures have been …. more or less complete theater.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8250385/A-FIFTH-New-York-City-residents-tested-positive-coronavirus-antibodies-Cuomos-study.html
1. ElvisIsReal 5 years ago
  
  Lemme find my shocked face. Again. 😐
2. TallDave 5 years ago
  
  yep this is at least seventh or eight such result... still seeing a lot of insistence that the infection rates cannot possible be this high but there is now so much replication on this issue
Case of the Mondays 5 years ago

Poor buttplug is throwing a hissy fit in the comments. Apparently the fact that this virus isn't nearly as deadly as once thought has the left wing hyperventilating. Or that their preferred candidate Joe Biden is a dementia patient who can't stop groping and sexually abusing women.
TallDave 5 years ago

Swedes are estimating 25-40% of the population have been or are infected... their model is looking more and more plausible with every antibody and wastewater study. Deaths in Sweden seem to be leveling off as fast as anywhere, excess deaths there will probably not look much different than anywhere else in Europe... suspect same will be true of Georgia vs the US.
Inter results 5 years ago

tnx
vachinde pilla mellaga vachinde
qjyna@opten.email 5 years ago

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